June 7, 2024 • 46 mins
Este sábado, desde las 7:30 p.m., Bucaramanga recibirá a Santa Fe en el partido de ida de la final de la Liga BetPlay. Hay ilusión en las dos hinchadas. En la del león por volver al camino glorioso y en la del leopardo por ganar la que sería su primera estrella en 75 años. ¿Cómo lo vive el aficionado? ¿Qué expectativas hay? ¿Quién es favorito? Análisis con Andrés Marocco y Santiago Rivas.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
We' ll have two very specialguests today. I want to go through
with the first one. I thinkeveryone in Colombia remembered Andrés Maruco when,
when Bucaramanga came to the final,we decided to invite him. The viewer
' s columnist perió this espen oflong trajectory and also explodes in the city
(00:22):
Bonita. He' s been talkingto us before cameras since the beginning of
the week. Andres welcome to theviewer, how you see the expectation,
how you feel so well, howthe atmosphere is and thank you for being
in this space. Thank you forthe invitation. You know that I join
important links with the newspaper, besidesthat we have toy because my column is
(00:45):
called Marocoue' s tribune so somehowwe are touchers. I' m sorry
I' m here It' sthe only time I have for the gym,
and now we' re on afit. Then it is my turn
to come and also with a commercialcommitment that I have with this gymnasium and
I could not attend, gentlemen ofhere. But since the image is so
(01:07):
bizarre, then now I take theimage so that you can put a better
picture. We' re happy,we' re happy, as Silva Melu
would say. This is a wonderfultime for me, for the city,
obviously for the team. I think, as Andrés rightly said, the best
(01:32):
teams of the semester came to thefinals. So some were waiting for others
and so look over our shoulder,as is absolutely normal, for not having
won anything in seventy- six years, for it is a unique moment and
I am enjoying it clearly, ofcourse, Andrew, I had that doubt.
(01:52):
I' ve had it since Bucaramangalapassed in the end how many messages
got to that cell phone. Iimagine it' s bursting on social media,
because if anything happened, when caramonGa came to the end everyone congratulating
Andrés marocco, also very identified withthe team. I want to sound vain,
but I really don' t thinkI' ve gotten that many messages
(02:15):
in a long time. I neverdon' t know, but there was
a time of the night that evenafter the game, we were sharing happiness
with Dudamel and he scolded me andsaid no more cell phone, because it
just couldn' t stop. ButI have a problem. I' m
from the generation that doesn' tknow how to leave an open conversation.
(02:38):
I have to answer from people.That' s how they brought me up
in the house. So, Itried to see, I tried to see
the majority and I still find him. I' m responding and this is
awesome. I' m really impressedby what you said because you thought about,
(02:59):
I think it' s amazing thatalmost all of media Colombia at least
thought about me, I mean,I' ve had interviews with the most
important media and you can' timagine what' s going on here with
people, I mean, it's touching I, honestly, sometimes I
say mine don' t deserve somuch affection here in my city. But
(03:20):
it is understandable because by far Iam the only one who puts the breast
on many things and you know me. I' m pretty ehement. So,
they kind of think I' mdefending, or I feel like I
' m permanently defending the team totempt attacks. So that' s what
people around here value too much.Of course, Andrés, we had the
(03:42):
subject of the bloated humane woman soexcited that she came out in the final.
We were talking about where that rootof Andres Maroco will come from,
and of course I imagine he'll have his stories, too. Andres,
yes, I wanted to ask himwhen I also play sotoca me by
name, so, for that storyof Andrés Marojo as a fan of the
Bucaramanga, and also to talk abouthow much that passion and that hobby of
(04:09):
the Bucaramanga has changed, if wecompare it to the first final played twenty
- seven years ago. Man,I' m not here, since I
' m saying on the bike thatI keep myself, on the bike that
are very fans that pass me alot, man nothing, my passion is
(04:33):
greater, because obviously I also confessthem. I don' t mention that
the final is going to be wonand you can win, but I'
m prepared for you not to win, that is, you know this closer
to those disappointments. But I'm very excited and people are now,
(04:57):
because they' re more excited.It also seems to me that at that
time, maybe I was in Bogotá, I worked in Caracol and I couldn
' t move from there. So, I wasn' t even doing sports.
So, like my bosses didn't understand why I had to come.
Then I remember I got here.I went to celebrate with them at
the hotel, at the hotel,at the airport. It' s a
(05:18):
lot on the air bridge and Idon' t forget the hug with the
ghost Ballesteros and everyone on the team. But at that time, we were
happy before, but we knew thatAmerica was an impossible thing from every point
of view. I mean, thatwas an ending that was very hard to
win. And now it' sdifferent. Respecting Santa Fe a lot,
(05:39):
man, I think the possibilities areintact, of course, they' re
intact. I mean, it's a very balanced double game, with
two teams that have a lot oforder and that take good care and that,
in the middle of the possible,is what they attack, they attack
well. Then it seems to methat the chances are so great for either
(06:00):
one of us. And why notthink that the one who hits first hits
twice and Bucaramanga is the one whostarts first. Of course, I also
wanted to talk and that I wasgoing to ask you precisely about those keys
of Bucaramanga, Dudamel, that battlethat is going to take place with Peirano,
you also talked about two very similarteams, but did not highlight it.
But I also wanted you to explainto us the meaning of Dudamel in
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this campaign, in this Bucaramanga campaign, a campaign in which they finished first
in the League and now opt forthe title. The meaning is the greatest
one you can have. I fighta lot with the henado rush, which
gives a lot of importance to technicians. He talks about up to one eighty
(06:45):
percent. I say no. Ido a lot more, I do it
at twenty- five, but withDudamel I don' t know if he
spends sixty at least. It isvery important Rafael, then also, why?
Why the conditions to come and sohave not met all the expectations of
what you asked for met with avery high percentage. What happens is that
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something happened to this team budgetly thatnot everyone knows and half that the owner
has a lot of money, butthat he understands a little football, he
has good will, but the manknows that this is one of his companies.
Then he won' t vote forthe whole Bucaraman plant. That year
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he already had a budget and cameout of Victor Luna' s lawsuit that
won it. Victor Luna after along time, with a lawsuit they had
with chains of those chain inheritances,beautiful chain cherries your Caramanga had to pay
them a very good silver, butwhen I tell them very good. It
is very good silver Victor Monday inDecember and see what life is like.
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After December, Victor moon country andthen that silver caused the Bucaramanga to lose
some budget capacity, which touched himprecisely in the middle of the player process.
And there damen had to lower hishead and they didn' t demand
enough but enough to put together aninteresting team. Seventeen players came in dramas.
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It' s very difficult and Rafaelputs them in the story, put
the idea in it and recovers manyof those who arrived who had had a
two thousand twenty- three. Prettyloose. It is the team of doubtmel
in the whole sense of the word. Yeah, don' t hesitate,
and there was more talk about asecond chance team, Andres. We don
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' t want to take much longereither. I imagine they did a lot
of weekend footage at the stadium.I imagine that there, because we see
new ones and an excited hinche accompanyinga swollen one that has been very attentive
in No Andres. Yeah, nodoubt good, clear images so that the
older and Wing don' t getsloppy with some topic. That' s
(09:01):
where they understand that I' mHinchai goal with the yellow shirt. I
' m not working there, ofcourse. That' s not how it
' s played, then, NoAndres. Many successes, lots of luck,
enjoy this finale, enjoy this atmosphereand we will be looking forward to,
and not only to how you livethis final, but also to what
you can tell us from the viewer' s column on this match and the
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definition of the star, because Iam struggling to finish it tomorrow as the
previous one. I hope I canmake it. I' ll tell you
not to get too many illusions,thank you for your patience, but the
idea is to get out of thesoul, as always everything I' ve
done. I have no other wayof doing things and thank you so much
(09:48):
for remembering me. If there arefans of Santa Fe, that' s
where I' m sorry, becausewe' re going to win them.
It' s going to look thatway, she' s going to look
like one. Thank you very much, Andrés, because precisely there we have
waiting, waiting to enter this sportsforum, a Santiago Rivas, a guest
also very special for us, thatwe wanted to have here also to talk
(10:09):
about that illusion of the fan SantaFereño. We were talking about the illusion
of Hincha Umangués, but Santiago,also journalist, analyst, has advantage in
this of podcasts we supposed podcast wetalked, I thought it was to introduce
Santiago of those common places of sportsjournalism when talking about these great feats,
(10:33):
not the longed for star duel ofFelino Santiago. I think you' re
already here Welcome to this sports forum. How do you live as Santa Fereño
fan, the illusion of seeing Santafaith in a new philal fighting for the
tenth star, because I live itwith many nerves. Obviously, Santa'
(10:58):
s feasted on a team that there' s not even one with. It
is a team with which one obviouslyhas many illusions, with which this semester
we have been able to enjoy verymuch because it has been a team that
is allowed to enjoy, that obviouslyhad its highs and its losses, but
that in general, was a verystable team, very interesting to see Peirano
(11:22):
managed to build a performance that hasgrown progressively and has been very cool.
But at the same time, onealready has the habit that everything that happens
with Santa Fe is suffering and onehas to live intensely and heartily. And
so, we also did not becomefans of football for boredom, neither to
(11:43):
be exprior breast nor to live ittimidly. Then, because that I live
with many nerves, obviously, theswollen Santa Fereña Santiago. What an illusion
you said about the team of Peirano, a team that recovered the memory of
the hand, those foreign strategists thatpeople live so long. What an illusion
(12:05):
there, there, in the fanYou are, a stadium fan. You
don' t like it. Yes, of course I' ve seen you
there fertilized in the stadium, howthat Santa Felin atmosphere feels, because I
think people are the people to see, the Santa Fereño. He always has
an additional doubt in his pocket.It doesn' t always have as a
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question whether or not you need doubtscarry one always in your pocket, no,
then you find one. People.It' s not always how I
hear they' re worse. We' re playing super well or we'
re not running on me, yes, santiquito, uy sanchajito. But if
we' re going to get youalready your price and that thing is something
that' s almost my inner voiceas well as uy santeoguito, we'
re going to give no. Sothat' s what we' re gonna
(12:50):
do, maybe this time you cansay it here, we' re gonna
get it. It is a littlethat question that constantly asks me and it
is okay to say that is alsoa way in which we learned to live
things with humor, to live football, with truth, with some detachment of
the same time, with a nervousattachment, so very of the heart,
(13:13):
with a very great passion. So, then, how have you lived party
that seems to me the healthiest.Little by little, each game was the
game because we, without going further, Santa feice a campaign by the time
we had to go to Ibaguet hadachieved thirteen points of fifteen possible in the
quadrangulars and still we were not guaranteedthe step to the final. So,
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with Santa Fe the last word isnever said until it was said since there
is no doubt, because of thatno, as much as I am sure
there are a lot of people who, when he passed in the 15th of
July of two thousand and twelve thestar, after so long they blew the
(14:00):
pitacious end and many people reconfirmed astonces did. These people aren' t
invading the court or anything. Notthen that feeling. It seems to me
that the same is the wise thingto do. Or not. I usually
say how I' m going tokeep a prudent silence from St Fere,
(14:20):
because it' s how I'm going to let things happen like they
' re going to happen and,obviously, I' m going to enjoy
the illusion, I' m goingto enjoy the passion. I' m
going to say all possible rudeness infront of the screen and inside the stadium,
and that moment I' m goingto live it. For me and
we' ll wait. Santiago isa fan, not only that he is
a subscriber, that goes to thestadium, but that when he plays football,
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he plays with Santa Fe' sshirt. Years ago, on Mondays,
the editor of the spectator played andSantiago sometimes went and always wore the
shirt of Santa Fe. And Icould remember that ever since they came back,
Slimfiet, I can' t.I' ve been touched to use
the replica vindas. There are somevery nice XXCL that I use, but
(15:05):
it is that I bought the XLand gave it Linfiet then when I could
use the Santa Fe one. Well, but I' ve got some bigger
ones on hand for other needs.And that made me remember Eduardo Sacher and
the Argentine writer, because he saidI never play with the independent shirt,
because I am very bad and Iwill not represent my team so badly.
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I' m not saying this isthe case with Santiago, but I'
m talking about this because there's a fan on the Santa Fe team.
We can say that everyone plays likethey' re fans of a lifetime.
But there is the case of DanielTorres, who is undoubtedly one of
the referents, and I want toask Santiago how this bloated Santa Fe has
also experienced his return recently. Hesaid to return to the team being bloated
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and see that harmony that was notlived so long ago. It made everything
a lot more special, and thatmakes sense to leagues, both the way
they play up, in the waythey communicate, in the way they attend
to the media, the fans.But I wanted to ask Santiago, in
that case, about Daniel Torres andhow you look reflected in the players too,
because it is very beautiful to seeDaniel de Torres playing again. But
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above all, it is very beautifulto see him propitiating the best possible behaviors
within the team, because there arefans players who are problematic. There are
fan players who play for themselves.There are fan players who play like fans,
that is, demanding the team.Like who' s in the grandstand.
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I know that, in that sense, the rostrum is very unfair.
I no longer remember whether it's Kaparrós or who it was who said
football was that place where people whohad nothing better to do than forty-
fifty years could go and yell athim and lose a multimillionaire of twenty-
three. So, that kind ofridiculous situation, not the footballers of the
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few people who have about 12,000 bosses per game yelling at them already.
So being a fan is hard,because you suffer, but being a
footballer is too. And I thinkseeing Daniel Torres using precisely his condition as
a fan to create a good teamenvironment, create a good dressing room,
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create a harmonious relationship, connect witha figure as a rolling wheel, which
is also a kind of a lotof symbolic weight, which is a guy
who didn' t grow up inthe lower divisions of Santa Fe, but
who has earned the heart of thewhole world. Aim for work as a
professional. And true Daniel Torres workingas a professional and doing things well and
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connecting people and walking the court,barefoot, that is, doing rituals that
for him represent something important, thatfor us too are important to see,
because it has been very pleasant,because it is like receiving someone who was
always from the house and at thesame time seeing him fulfill the role that
one is waiting for those who werefrom the house. And on the contrary,
many examples, there are many peoplein many teams who have come to
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their soul team and wanting to bethe figure and loving the stars, they
have ended up stealing a lot ofthe impulse that makes the big teams and
in this case, Daniel Torres,It seems to me that he has behaved
perfectly and because I am very gratefuland I am more grateful to him for
being able to see him on thecourt by firing in the bowl, doing
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things that he did before even beingan excellent or flyer five. I used
to be much more shy to shootthe bow. It seems to me that,
obviously, his passing through other teams, his passing through the Spanish professional
league precise that he took away alot, fum much like that he let
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go and went. That seems verycool to me, that seems interesting to
me of the stars of the team, that representativeness, because I believe that
Daniel Torres, besides, is ata time when he is the most regular
player of the semester. He's a player, an impressive ability,
but I like Santa Fe who alsohas other figures. I also wanted to
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ask you why, for Roda comeshis leadership Marmolejo, who was growing and
the teacher peirano that if we talkabout bucaramanue to the importance of Dudamel in
peirano there is also a great importanceSantiago. How do you see those other
figures of the team predilection by oneor another player. Besides, Daniel Torres,
I' ve surprised you this semester. Well, Roda' s here.
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It' s been super good newssince the beginning. Every time these
stars arrive at Colombian football, againthat has passed through many sides, one
always has the doubt as of goodstate will arrive. What it' s
gonna be like. I think Rodallega' s progress from the beginning was very
good professional. I think he's a guy who' s been up
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to what any fan of any teamin any country in the world would demand
of his stars, a guy whogot in tune with the team that'
s been attentive to the different technicians, who has shown precisely that the step
for better in football leagues, becausehe must teach a football player to be
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a better professional and not make astar anymore, and that has made him
a star for the people of SantaFe. So I' m very grateful
to roll along as well and veryimpressed with the figure that has become for
us in any circumstance, playing badand good semesters as a team, the
guy has been there constantly putting it, all running. That was fantastic.
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I really liked seeing the defense,of the defense that had for several years
a lot of reminders that we had, even the return of Pacho Mesa,
which has been from my favorite defensesof Santa Fe, very injured, very
fucked up knee, that it wassad to lose it to start seeing well,
then who are going to call tohave some defenses well, this defense
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with omen, this defense with Millán, this defense has been very interesting.
The dressing has been played, thatis, in a place that for Santa
Fe has always been good, thathas been the right band of the Right
side. We have had very goodand pearls has played a super role.
I am very grateful also for therole of Chaverra. It seems to me
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that he' s a guy whogoes out of his mind a little bit
more, but in that spark hehas in that thing of being like a
fanny, he gets very interesting thingsand obviously, he has a fantastic leg.
That was very good. I'm a super fan of Juan Pablo
Zuluaga. I think he' sa player, he' s a well
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- established technical guy who' seven been on the bench in the last
few games and when he comes in, he comes in like he' s
been playing the whole game concentrated orinvolved in his thing. Then no,
because I' m very happy withthe team in general. I think they
' re playing a very good roleand I think that' s precisely peirano
catching a lot of talented people isthat you forget? How talented is a
(22:23):
professional football player? You don't forget that the worst of professional football
players is infinitely better than the bestof fans. Or when a person is
a very talented guy and plays footballdivinely, he swears he' s at
the level of players who work onit every day, but that' s
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their job. So the point isn' t even if there' s talent,
but there' s a head.And it seems to me that Peira
' s role hasn' t beenvery good in a bit. Draw difficult
moments, Draw moments like the classicwe lost that was difficult, bypass moments
in which it felt that Santa Fewas called to have another semester. Not
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weird. At the beginning mostly thewhole semester I was told this is good,
this is bad, how we areplaying and maintaining consistency. There is
a constant message, and that constancyof dressing room is noticed or noticed because
there is the understanding. You seethe different places you look at and you
understand that they all press at thesame time that no one releases and that
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not letting go is something that comesfrom the heart of the camelin. That
is not a thing that can comefrom individual initiatives. Obviously, this is
a group thing and that seems tome to have been a noble role.
Pear of course, there' sa team, there' s like right
now his worship mentioned pearls and ofcourse he hadn' t noticed because one,
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as a fan, sometimes resists theseplayers who come from direct rivals.
But I think she' s pearlynot only in Santano Ve, but where
she' s gone. He's been a professional guy. Let'
s just say he' s notsome kind of tribune like we say,
he doesn' t mess with anybody. It' s a surrenderer in important
games. I think the man showshis caste, but he wanted to be
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just like Pearls' comment, whichhas been completely forgotten and seems to me
an interesting case and which has contributeda lot to the defense and also when
it is required, attacks and launchesvery good centers. Right now in the
game with Tolima I saw him several. But I wanted to ask Santiago a
little bit, although if you leaveme it' s the lega. I
want that question to be important tome, but to link it with what
(24:37):
Santiago is saying, I also wantedto ask him in that idea of Peirano,
if the teams have ideologies, thatis, if Santa Fe with Peirano
in that collective regained a spirit andif he believes that it is true that
there is a sense of identity,of certain swollen with the game, because
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nowadays much is also valued for thatthe team puts in, that the team
puts eggs, then it is likeSantiago also how he sees that matter of
the Santa fereña identity. And ifwith Peirano recovers a little, that remembering
that he comes from the line.He was a hairy assistant when he was
in Santa Fe and he comes fromthat line. Well, it seems to
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me that Santa Fe has a specificline that I don' t know if
it' s an ideology. Ithink it' s a temper. I
mean, we' ve had teamsplaying warmer and less warmer, more hitters
and less hitters. We have hadteams that play more defensively, like that
(25:41):
of Peluso, champion of the SouthAmerican, and we have had offensive teams
like that of Gareca, which wasvery interesting, although it did not win
anything, and teams like that ofCostas, which was a very balanced team,
but above all, very much tothe Pepa say, biolograted very interesting
things. So, we even hadteams that you didn' t know very
(26:03):
well what they were playing, butthey played very well, like Wilson Gutierrez
' s. And in that,then, the personality of each technician,
because obviously it is seen and whateach technician brings with him works. But
the holy temperament is a temperament ofconstancy, It is a temperament of boldness
is a temperament of constant activity,like that one cannot lose attention. So
(26:26):
with what technicians has gone wrong,with technicians in individualities, for example,
with technicians who are too defensive,that is to say not how to say
hairy, because it is that Pelusowas a guy who since the ball was
coming out was pressing and was veryclear how it was the arrival up teams
(26:51):
that or technicians who are relying toomuch on the ball and on a football
very traditionally defensive like the one thatwe have played in the selection Vía le
makes Alexis Garcia or the Bolillo Gómezhas gone wrong. Pedro Sarmiento who came
from being technical revelation when he waswith Santa Pelo stopped last and I feel
that they are technical as they donot combine with what one understands by the
(27:15):
spirit often, but that is thatit is an ideology. I think it
' s a temperamental thing. TheSantafereno temperament is much more suffered for good
and for bad, because that obviouslymakes one spend very bitter times too,
but not as one says, butbecause we can' t be a team
to which things go easily as ifthings flow without being a bear then.
(27:36):
But then, well, but alittle bit in those ourselves we get that
idea from ourselves and in that wehave teams. Or we demand that our
team never let go of the game. And I think the techs who understand
that sheath again, that is,Wilson, whether it' s the coast
or the pot when they understand thatsheath. That' s when they connect
(28:03):
with what I consider to be thesantafreño temperament. So, I always got
offered a great technician, but he' s gonna see luck in the games.
Then being able doesn' t putin an ourius and start backing out.
And he' s starting to backoff. Sure, no, Dad,
wait a minute. No. Thenin the stadium she sits and from
one the swollen starts. No.No, no, but the technician pulls
back. There' s a disconnect. Then, for that spirit is a
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little what they call self- fulfillingprophecy because, obviously, people, demanding
it, make that materialize for goodand for bad, that materializes in something
very good, in something very interesting. Seeing or materializing in the frustration of
seeing the team kick out for Atti. That' s when you start.
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That' s when Christo starts sufferingfrom Santiago. I ask him one last
question on this side, and itis I heard Eduardo Mendez the President say
that a few months ago, whenhe found fans on the street in the
malls, they reminded him of hismother in a very bad way and now
he finds them again, but theyno longer remember her as before. And
(29:08):
I want to ask you, asa fan or rather, how you have
seen that relationship that you can nowhave with Santa Fe managers, that is,
you are still being asked for everythingthat was questioned a few months ago
at the administrative or sports level.Or so let' s say, he
(29:32):
calmed down a bit because of theresults of this semester they deleted Cassette,
because to me it seems that theyhave to be both, that is,
one has to be able to enjoythe triumph and has to give credit to
those who deserve credit in that sense, because obviously the management of this semester
has been, of course, muchbetter. Of course, but not at
(29:53):
the same time and you have tounderstand, that is to say, Mendez
doesn' t like me, Idon' t like anything, and for
me the team is much bigger thanits managers. It doesn' t matter
even if your managers are representatives ofthe team owners or if they are actually
the owners of the teams. Footballhas this thing in general. Sport has
this fantastic thing of turning teams intosomething much bigger than the sum of its
(30:15):
elements. I prefer the shirt teamI wear when you' re going to
play football. I have the teamthat connects me to my family and I
have the team that connects me tomy weekends and I have the team that
connects me to the symbols that Ishare with the people who are part of
(30:37):
the swelling. And the team I' m going to drink red to the
campin every fortnight or week, dependingon the dates. That is, the
team is much bigger than that andto that extent it is important that managers
be required to do what they haveto demand from managers, understanding that the
teams go through difficult stages. Ibelieve that Méndez' s work went through
(31:03):
or began to fill many of thegaps in Pastrana' s work. I
think it' s very easy toforget that Pastrana left a gigantic void when
the team left, because it wasthe time when we won the best results.
But at the same time, beingthe team something much bigger, left
us a team with a tronera,left us a club with a tronera,
and those gaps that administratively have tobe filled, also generated the moment when
(31:29):
we are. So Méndez is aperson who himself calls himself a bandits'
lawyer and to that extent, thepeople in Santa Fe, who have a
very neat self- narratory and verymoral adulture that I think we should take
off a little, because in Colombianfootball there is no one who is not
smeared from something that narrative of hisown, because he recuperates a lot then.
(31:56):
That, then, again has somethinggood and has something bad good to
the extent that the guy even recognizeshimself in front of his leaders, which
is conceived without his leaders. Andthat seems important to me, because the
team, because it is much biggerthan its leaders, has to demand fairness
and neatness and, above all,transparency in the face of the bloated leaders.
(32:16):
Or it' s also true.But at the same time, we
should be grateful if we have hadgood results and if afterwards the one who
accepted bringing Peirano, then I supposethat too has to be thanked and that
also has to be recognized? AndI guess that' s what he feels,
that he feels that after a fewvery bad or regular seasons, where
(32:37):
he felt a team mostly full ofcracks. People turned to claim from Mendez.
And now that the team feels solidand feels like a team, a
real team, because people obviously stopdemanding things or yelling at Mendez. Beyond
(32:58):
what I think about personal hyss,not beyond what I intend to survive,
to recharge in a person or goto turn around, to blur anger against
a person. Whether or not it' s the absolute culprit, I don
' t think it exists, whetheror not it' s the person responsible,
because I think it' s anatural symptom of how football teams live.
(33:19):
Football is irrational, absolutely irrational.It is connected with a collective spirit
and with a spirit of something thatyou want to win at all costs in
a world in which you do notalways win. And I think that those
of Santa Fe have had the opportunityto learn that to kick as well and
you have to live that whole thing, from frustration to joy, to the
(33:44):
moment of forgetting, to the momentof remembering and roasting. We need punctures
with good memory, because when wedon' t have good memory, they
come back to the team, theygo back to these cycles. And I
think building a better process also dependson the fans knowing how to demand more
constantly, but, at the sametime, obviously, I understand that eduardly
it is the work that has doneto the head of Santa Fe this semester
(34:06):
and the hiring, for example,like Pa peirano, has really been a
good hiring and it has been apleasant meeting again here in Santa Fe,
of course the risk that the resultssee it faces and, moreover, that
looking to mangar obviously, differentiating thetwo clubs, also has those characteristics a
(34:30):
team that is reversing the historical situationin which it has been and today these
also seem like a party in Bucaramanga. I also had the doubt of Santiago
as the team, like that mystique, also from the story that is around
the city, the possibility of thetitle championship, because in the mystique of
(34:53):
Santafereña it is very connected with suffering, that is, with the Holy Faith,
as the mystic of Santa Fe,the mystic of the city. It
has a lot to do with thisstory that we threw ourselves out that we
did it without mobsters in the'80s that' 90s is a lie that
(35:15):
we had a team that didn't get anything that a little bit is
true, that is, as wedo have a team that doesn' t
give things away to them. Iremember perfectly Roldan pitandom out of place in
a band game, then against SantaFe, Then again memory is important.
I remember if Santa Fe is nota team that is given things, but
at no time is a team thatalso threw on the San Benito to suffer
(35:37):
every step and it seems to methat that obviously can be trotted by simply
living intensely, living passionately and feelingthe football in the deepest. And I
think that, because it is sucha small virtue that it comes to accompany
many other things that such as learningto live life with humor, having a
(36:01):
somewhat more critical temperament, a littlemore self- critical, having to balance
all the time the joy and sadnessof frustration. And then that thing,
of that illusion seems very beautiful tome. I find that there is something
very beautiful, because in meeting withthe different characters that make up that santiferian
(36:23):
temperament and we all dispose because itfeels like that thing in the city,
as when the party approaches, wealso have the first party of visitors.
So I think people are obviously holdingthose terrible nerves inside the belly and there
(36:43):
we' re going to slowly releasethat pressure. I hope, obviously for
the good, but in this respectI will keep a prudent silence Santa Pereña,
Santiago, but and already to goto Candy and the rival, as
you see it also there my questionto the bucar manga Dudamel, how you
see it as caramore the manga hasbeen a great team, that is,
(37:07):
well, yes. I understand thestories of small teams that have opportunities and
windows of opportunity. It seems tome that there is no large or small
equipment that can escape the importance ofa process. I think that in that
sense, Dudamel has been a verypositive influence, because he is a guy
(37:27):
who has clear the chain that goesfrom the managers to the aguatero, as
passing through each element of the teamends up setting up and that obviously also
ends up binding the swollen one.But it' s just that the puff
will always be there. And Ithink those processes are beautiful processes, they
are important processes and they are processesthat will last for what they have to
(37:52):
last as long as the institutions knowhow to measure themselves to be patient and
to think about the long term andnot so much in the short term.
I think you can set up somereally cool stories. I also understand the
extent to which the epic of smallteams is eye- catching and appealing and
(38:16):
amusing, because, obviously, thosestories are more than the stories of the
big teams that nurture football. Ofcourse, I am the first star of
my team in America, two thousandeight, which I remember, at least
if not forgetable, that was thefirst one you remember which one was no,
because it was certainly the one ofthe two thousand twelve. Recently we
(38:36):
talked, in fact, with FedericoDias Granados, also a big fan of
Santa Fe, about how I don' t know the destination. The designs
of life were very generous with Bogotáin two thousand twelve, because the star
Santa Fe gave him the first semester. After more than thirty years. I
don' t remember exactly how manythey were. Then he gives it to
(38:57):
millionaires and I think that year,because, regardless of the colors, the
whole city could enjoy and could knowwhat it was like to shout again champion
and turn around in the Campin Then, that beautiful illusion, that illusion of
the team for the first time champions, is a little Santiago. There.
In conclusion, which one you rememberwas that first star. Your short beard
(39:20):
doesn' t have a great preferencefor fat bald beards. Don' t
get your beard and unlock my cellphone and maroco already. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. I see apattern there on the guests, so
look. I remember, obviously,that star seven in July of two thousand
(39:47):
twelve, because, because it wasthe first star that I saw I was
eighty- two. The previous starof Santa Fe had been seventy- five.
We had built a story about beingthe team that had been thirty-
five years, but thirty- sevenand a half years without winning a star
(40:08):
and then that thing that fucked us, because, because a little seemed to
condemn us to being the tragic teamand, at the same time, a
team that obviously wanted to win,a team that came, besides winning in
two thousand nine in the Colombia Cup, then that had certain illusions about the
(40:30):
things that could be achieved. Well, obviously, until it wasn' t
the end, until that last bitwas shot in the campin against the grass,
because we couldn' t fend off. But I remember it and I
remember each one very very vividly theone that we beat to the Tolima and
(40:53):
the one that we beat to thedem is, just as obviously the city
is that they went wrong in thefirst of them. Also, the first
time I went out of two thousandfive we went to Medellín and all with
my family to watch that game thatwas very sad and very frustrating. Well,
yes, the memory of two thousandtwelve, because obviously I' m
(41:15):
going to stay. In fact,I still have somewhere the front pages of
the newspapers, the front page ofthe expectant, of the pages where the
article was and the more I boughtall of them, all of them,
the chao, the rivers, thered chronicle, the green chronicle, all
a cha ley cha dos. Sure, then, what, of course,
(41:36):
Sure, of course, Santiago,thank you so much for having been here
among a sportswoman, for having gonethrough this space, your preference here with
the viewer to talk, to talktoday about this final. Yes, Santiago,
thank you very much and well,well, many successes also very lucky.
I hope you' ll be giventhis time the tenth Santa Fe,
that the star will stay here inBogotá. He comes looking to do it,
(41:59):
he comes looking to close and well, let' s also hope to
meet again on a football field soon. I wish I did, I played
again, because we stopped seeing eachother in Pandemia. But then I have
anything, you already have my phone. There is an order of Santa Fe
' s T- shirt to putin there that of the dens perfecto Grande
Santiago, so many thanks to agreat one is that Santa Fe and made
(42:22):
me remember Santiago and in an eraof more of itself accurate glory as glorious
the last days may have won theSouth American has been seeing so many titles
recently let' s say now Iforgot the word, but the number of
trophies that each Colombian team has wonin the last twenty years and Santa Fe
(42:45):
I think it is behind national withlike the team that more trophies, more
tournaments has won. The League,won it several times the Cup, the
Superleague, also even in the Women' s League, which is the example
team to follow along with America Andwell, it' s going to be
egg a very exciting ending. Allthe finals are exciting, but now to
give you a new word and close, because let' s talk quickly about
(43:09):
those datics. We' ve alwayssaid that at the beginning. Santa Fe
is first in the reclassification. He' s got fifty points. I hope
it doesn' t happen to himthe neighbor reason why he closes in Bogotá,
the or because the first match willbe this Saturday bu Kramanga in the
night at 7 (43:27):
30, And I fail the memory after the game of
the Colombian team that begins to preparehis way for the Copa América, that
starts on the twenty next exactly thenfifty points and I was going to say
that the same thing does not happento the neighbor of millionaires who made fifty
points and did not serve for anyof those fifty points, for they are,
say fifty points that come out offifteen games won, ten of them
(43:52):
in the regular phase, the otherfive in quadrangular. The other tied it,
tied five in general, and lostfive. Those who lost were in
regular phase in quadrangulars. As Ijust said, it was five wins,
a draw barely got a goal.It is a team that knows how to
defend itself very well and Bucaramanga isthird in the reclassification. He made forty
(44:14):
- six points, thirteen victories,eleven of them in regular phase, seven
draws and five losses. Like SantaFe, I don' t have the
goal data, but I also knowit' s a very difficult team to
break. So, it' sgoing to be me I think it'
s going to be a very closeending. I don' t think we
' ll see a very bulging globalscoreboard. The case of details will be
(44:37):
defined in a goal and well,because none of that is to enjoy the
final. We are talking about twoof the teams with more regularity of the
semester, maybe with Pereira, Tolima, Tolin and that they arrived until that
final phase fighting Then we will havea final two of the best teams and
also, as I said, pendingof the Colombian selection that is already in
(45:00):
these United States, that prepares tomorrowalso plays, as said the four,
half, four and a half transmissionof goal, snail, snail television and
that also prepares that path. We' re not here. I do not
remember much a column that reads hereHernán Peláez, that I believe the past
ones in what I have seen seeingboth at the same time and because nothing
(45:22):
with this we close a sports one. Thank you so much, Andres,
Thank you. Do not forget tofollow the content of the spectator, follow
the contents of the final tomorrow withmany articles closed also for our subscribers,
and follow the contents about the Colombianfootball final about Colombia' s participation in
(45:42):
the Copa América and, of course, that they are pending a sports platform.
Thank you all very much. Thankyou.
We' ll have two very specialguests today. I want to go through
with the first one. I thinkeveryone in Colombia remembered Andrés Maruco when,
when Bucaramanga came to the final,we decided to invite him. The viewer
' s columnist perió this espen oflong trajectory and also explodes in the city
(00:22):
Bonita. He' s been talkingto us before cameras since the beginning of
the week. Andres welcome to theviewer, how you see the expectation,
how you feel so well, howthe atmosphere is and thank you for being
in this space. Thank you forthe invitation. You know that I join
important links with the newspaper, besidesthat we have toy because my column is
(00:45):
called Marocoue' s tribune so somehowwe are touchers. I' m sorry
I' m here It' sthe only time I have for the gym,
and now we' re on afit. Then it is my turn
to come and also with a commercialcommitment that I have with this gymnasium and
I could not attend, gentlemen ofhere. But since the image is so
(01:07):
bizarre, then now I take theimage so that you can put a better
picture. We' re happy,we' re happy, as Silva Melu
would say. This is a wonderfultime for me, for the city,
obviously for the team. I think, as Andrés rightly said, the best
(01:32):
teams of the semester came to thefinals. So some were waiting for others
and so look over our shoulder,as is absolutely normal, for not having
won anything in seventy- six years, for it is a unique moment and
I am enjoying it clearly, ofcourse, Andrew, I had that doubt.
(01:52):
I' ve had it since Bucaramangalapassed in the end how many messages
got to that cell phone. Iimagine it' s bursting on social media,
because if anything happened, when caramonGa came to the end everyone congratulating
Andrés marocco, also very identified withthe team. I want to sound vain,
but I really don' t thinkI' ve gotten that many messages
(02:15):
in a long time. I neverdon' t know, but there was
a time of the night that evenafter the game, we were sharing happiness
with Dudamel and he scolded me andsaid no more cell phone, because it
just couldn' t stop. ButI have a problem. I' m
from the generation that doesn' tknow how to leave an open conversation.
(02:38):
I have to answer from people.That' s how they brought me up
in the house. So, Itried to see, I tried to see
the majority and I still find him. I' m responding and this is
awesome. I' m really impressedby what you said because you thought about,
(02:59):
I think it' s amazing thatalmost all of media Colombia at least
thought about me, I mean,I' ve had interviews with the most
important media and you can' timagine what' s going on here with
people, I mean, it's touching I, honestly, sometimes I
say mine don' t deserve somuch affection here in my city. But
(03:20):
it is understandable because by far Iam the only one who puts the breast
on many things and you know me. I' m pretty ehement. So,
they kind of think I' mdefending, or I feel like I
' m permanently defending the team totempt attacks. So that' s what
people around here value too much.Of course, Andrés, we had the
(03:42):
subject of the bloated humane woman soexcited that she came out in the final.
We were talking about where that rootof Andres Maroco will come from,
and of course I imagine he'll have his stories, too. Andres,
yes, I wanted to ask himwhen I also play sotoca me by
name, so, for that storyof Andrés Marojo as a fan of the
Bucaramanga, and also to talk abouthow much that passion and that hobby of
(04:09):
the Bucaramanga has changed, if wecompare it to the first final played twenty
- seven years ago. Man,I' m not here, since I
' m saying on the bike thatI keep myself, on the bike that
are very fans that pass me alot, man nothing, my passion is
(04:33):
greater, because obviously I also confessthem. I don' t mention that
the final is going to be wonand you can win, but I'
m prepared for you not to win, that is, you know this closer
to those disappointments. But I'm very excited and people are now,
(04:57):
because they' re more excited.It also seems to me that at that
time, maybe I was in Bogotá, I worked in Caracol and I couldn
' t move from there. So, I wasn' t even doing sports.
So, like my bosses didn't understand why I had to come.
Then I remember I got here.I went to celebrate with them at
the hotel, at the hotel,at the airport. It' s a
(05:18):
lot on the air bridge and Idon' t forget the hug with the
ghost Ballesteros and everyone on the team. But at that time, we were
happy before, but we knew thatAmerica was an impossible thing from every point
of view. I mean, thatwas an ending that was very hard to
win. And now it' sdifferent. Respecting Santa Fe a lot,
(05:39):
man, I think the possibilities areintact, of course, they' re
intact. I mean, it's a very balanced double game, with
two teams that have a lot oforder and that take good care and that,
in the middle of the possible,is what they attack, they attack
well. Then it seems to methat the chances are so great for either
(06:00):
one of us. And why notthink that the one who hits first hits
twice and Bucaramanga is the one whostarts first. Of course, I also
wanted to talk and that I wasgoing to ask you precisely about those keys
of Bucaramanga, Dudamel, that battlethat is going to take place with Peirano,
you also talked about two very similarteams, but did not highlight it.
But I also wanted you to explainto us the meaning of Dudamel in
(06:24):
this campaign, in this Bucaramanga campaign, a campaign in which they finished first
in the League and now opt forthe title. The meaning is the greatest
one you can have. I fighta lot with the henado rush, which
gives a lot of importance to technicians. He talks about up to one eighty
(06:45):
percent. I say no. Ido a lot more, I do it
at twenty- five, but withDudamel I don' t know if he
spends sixty at least. It isvery important Rafael, then also, why?
Why the conditions to come and sohave not met all the expectations of
what you asked for met with avery high percentage. What happens is that
(07:10):
something happened to this team budgetly thatnot everyone knows and half that the owner
has a lot of money, butthat he understands a little football, he
has good will, but the manknows that this is one of his companies.
Then he won' t vote forthe whole Bucaraman plant. That year
(07:30):
he already had a budget and cameout of Victor Luna' s lawsuit that
won it. Victor Luna after along time, with a lawsuit they had
with chains of those chain inheritances,beautiful chain cherries your Caramanga had to pay
them a very good silver, butwhen I tell them very good. It
is very good silver Victor Monday inDecember and see what life is like.
(07:54):
After December, Victor moon country andthen that silver caused the Bucaramanga to lose
some budget capacity, which touched himprecisely in the middle of the player process.
And there damen had to lower hishead and they didn' t demand
enough but enough to put together aninteresting team. Seventeen players came in dramas.
(08:15):
It' s very difficult and Rafaelputs them in the story, put
the idea in it and recovers manyof those who arrived who had had a
two thousand twenty- three. Prettyloose. It is the team of doubtmel
in the whole sense of the word. Yeah, don' t hesitate,
and there was more talk about asecond chance team, Andres. We don
(08:37):
' t want to take much longereither. I imagine they did a lot
of weekend footage at the stadium.I imagine that there, because we see
new ones and an excited hinche accompanyinga swollen one that has been very attentive
in No Andres. Yeah, nodoubt good, clear images so that the
older and Wing don' t getsloppy with some topic. That' s
(09:01):
where they understand that I' mHinchai goal with the yellow shirt. I
' m not working there, ofcourse. That' s not how it
' s played, then, NoAndres. Many successes, lots of luck,
enjoy this finale, enjoy this atmosphereand we will be looking forward to,
and not only to how you livethis final, but also to what
you can tell us from the viewer' s column on this match and the
(09:26):
definition of the star, because Iam struggling to finish it tomorrow as the
previous one. I hope I canmake it. I' ll tell you
not to get too many illusions,thank you for your patience, but the
idea is to get out of thesoul, as always everything I' ve
done. I have no other wayof doing things and thank you so much
(09:48):
for remembering me. If there arefans of Santa Fe, that' s
where I' m sorry, becausewe' re going to win them.
It' s going to look thatway, she' s going to look
like one. Thank you very much, Andrés, because precisely there we have
waiting, waiting to enter this sportsforum, a Santiago Rivas, a guest
also very special for us, thatwe wanted to have here also to talk
(10:09):
about that illusion of the fan SantaFereño. We were talking about the illusion
of Hincha Umangués, but Santiago,also journalist, analyst, has advantage in
this of podcasts we supposed podcast wetalked, I thought it was to introduce
Santiago of those common places of sportsjournalism when talking about these great feats,
(10:33):
not the longed for star duel ofFelino Santiago. I think you' re
already here Welcome to this sports forum. How do you live as Santa Fereño
fan, the illusion of seeing Santafaith in a new philal fighting for the
tenth star, because I live itwith many nerves. Obviously, Santa'
(10:58):
s feasted on a team that there' s not even one with. It
is a team with which one obviouslyhas many illusions, with which this semester
we have been able to enjoy verymuch because it has been a team that
is allowed to enjoy, that obviouslyhad its highs and its losses, but
that in general, was a verystable team, very interesting to see Peirano
(11:22):
managed to build a performance that hasgrown progressively and has been very cool.
But at the same time, onealready has the habit that everything that happens
with Santa Fe is suffering and onehas to live intensely and heartily. And
so, we also did not becomefans of football for boredom, neither to
(11:43):
be exprior breast nor to live ittimidly. Then, because that I live
with many nerves, obviously, theswollen Santa Fereña Santiago. What an illusion
you said about the team of Peirano, a team that recovered the memory of
the hand, those foreign strategists thatpeople live so long. What an illusion
(12:05):
there, there, in the fanYou are, a stadium fan. You
don' t like it. Yes, of course I' ve seen you
there fertilized in the stadium, howthat Santa Felin atmosphere feels, because I
think people are the people to see, the Santa Fereño. He always has
an additional doubt in his pocket.It doesn' t always have as a
(12:26):
question whether or not you need doubtscarry one always in your pocket, no,
then you find one. People.It' s not always how I
hear they' re worse. We' re playing super well or we'
re not running on me, yes, santiquito, uy sanchajito. But if
we' re going to get youalready your price and that thing is something
that' s almost my inner voiceas well as uy santeoguito, we'
re going to give no. Sothat' s what we' re gonna
(12:50):
do, maybe this time you cansay it here, we' re gonna
get it. It is a littlethat question that constantly asks me and it
is okay to say that is alsoa way in which we learned to live
things with humor, to live football, with truth, with some detachment of
the same time, with a nervousattachment, so very of the heart,
(13:13):
with a very great passion. So, then, how have you lived party
that seems to me the healthiest.Little by little, each game was the
game because we, without going further, Santa feice a campaign by the time
we had to go to Ibaguet hadachieved thirteen points of fifteen possible in the
quadrangulars and still we were not guaranteedthe step to the final. So,
(13:37):
with Santa Fe the last word isnever said until it was said since there
is no doubt, because of thatno, as much as I am sure
there are a lot of people who, when he passed in the 15th of
July of two thousand and twelve thestar, after so long they blew the
(14:00):
pitacious end and many people reconfirmed astonces did. These people aren' t
invading the court or anything. Notthen that feeling. It seems to me
that the same is the wise thingto do. Or not. I usually
say how I' m going tokeep a prudent silence from St Fere,
(14:20):
because it' s how I'm going to let things happen like they
' re going to happen and,obviously, I' m going to enjoy
the illusion, I' m goingto enjoy the passion. I' m
going to say all possible rudeness infront of the screen and inside the stadium,
and that moment I' m goingto live it. For me and
we' ll wait. Santiago isa fan, not only that he is
a subscriber, that goes to thestadium, but that when he plays football,
(14:41):
he plays with Santa Fe' sshirt. Years ago, on Mondays,
the editor of the spectator played andSantiago sometimes went and always wore the
shirt of Santa Fe. And Icould remember that ever since they came back,
Slimfiet, I can' t.I' ve been touched to use
the replica vindas. There are somevery nice XXCL that I use, but
(15:05):
it is that I bought the XLand gave it Linfiet then when I could
use the Santa Fe one. Well, but I' ve got some bigger
ones on hand for other needs.And that made me remember Eduardo Sacher and
the Argentine writer, because he saidI never play with the independent shirt,
because I am very bad and Iwill not represent my team so badly.
(15:26):
I' m not saying this isthe case with Santiago, but I'
m talking about this because there's a fan on the Santa Fe team.
We can say that everyone plays likethey' re fans of a lifetime.
But there is the case of DanielTorres, who is undoubtedly one of
the referents, and I want toask Santiago how this bloated Santa Fe has
also experienced his return recently. Hesaid to return to the team being bloated
(15:52):
and see that harmony that was notlived so long ago. It made everything
a lot more special, and thatmakes sense to leagues, both the way
they play up, in the waythey communicate, in the way they attend
to the media, the fans.But I wanted to ask Santiago, in
that case, about Daniel Torres andhow you look reflected in the players too,
because it is very beautiful to seeDaniel de Torres playing again. But
(16:18):
above all, it is very beautifulto see him propitiating the best possible behaviors
within the team, because there arefans players who are problematic. There are
fan players who play for themselves.There are fan players who play like fans,
that is, demanding the team.Like who' s in the grandstand.
(16:41):
I know that, in that sense, the rostrum is very unfair.
I no longer remember whether it's Kaparrós or who it was who said
football was that place where people whohad nothing better to do than forty-
fifty years could go and yell athim and lose a multimillionaire of twenty-
three. So, that kind ofridiculous situation, not the footballers of the
(17:07):
few people who have about 12,000 bosses per game yelling at them already.
So being a fan is hard,because you suffer, but being a
footballer is too. And I thinkseeing Daniel Torres using precisely his condition as
a fan to create a good teamenvironment, create a good dressing room,
(17:32):
create a harmonious relationship, connect witha figure as a rolling wheel, which
is also a kind of a lotof symbolic weight, which is a guy
who didn' t grow up inthe lower divisions of Santa Fe, but
who has earned the heart of thewhole world. Aim for work as a
professional. And true Daniel Torres workingas a professional and doing things well and
(17:55):
connecting people and walking the court,barefoot, that is, doing rituals that
for him represent something important, thatfor us too are important to see,
because it has been very pleasant,because it is like receiving someone who was
always from the house and at thesame time seeing him fulfill the role that
one is waiting for those who werefrom the house. And on the contrary,
many examples, there are many peoplein many teams who have come to
(18:19):
their soul team and wanting to bethe figure and loving the stars, they
have ended up stealing a lot ofthe impulse that makes the big teams and
in this case, Daniel Torres,It seems to me that he has behaved
perfectly and because I am very gratefuland I am more grateful to him for
being able to see him on thecourt by firing in the bowl, doing
(18:42):
things that he did before even beingan excellent or flyer five. I used
to be much more shy to shootthe bow. It seems to me that,
obviously, his passing through other teams, his passing through the Spanish professional
league precise that he took away alot, fum much like that he let
(19:03):
go and went. That seems verycool to me, that seems interesting to
me of the stars of the team, that representativeness, because I believe that
Daniel Torres, besides, is ata time when he is the most regular
player of the semester. He's a player, an impressive ability,
but I like Santa Fe who alsohas other figures. I also wanted to
(19:26):
ask you why, for Roda comeshis leadership Marmolejo, who was growing and
the teacher peirano that if we talkabout bucaramanue to the importance of Dudamel in
peirano there is also a great importanceSantiago. How do you see those other
figures of the team predilection by oneor another player. Besides, Daniel Torres,
I' ve surprised you this semester. Well, Roda' s here.
(19:48):
It' s been super good newssince the beginning. Every time these
stars arrive at Colombian football, againthat has passed through many sides, one
always has the doubt as of goodstate will arrive. What it' s
gonna be like. I think Rodallega' s progress from the beginning was very
good professional. I think he's a guy who' s been up
(20:11):
to what any fan of any teamin any country in the world would demand
of his stars, a guy whogot in tune with the team that'
s been attentive to the different technicians, who has shown precisely that the step
for better in football leagues, becausehe must teach a football player to be
(20:32):
a better professional and not make astar anymore, and that has made him
a star for the people of SantaFe. So I' m very grateful
to roll along as well and veryimpressed with the figure that has become for
us in any circumstance, playing badand good semesters as a team, the
guy has been there constantly putting it, all running. That was fantastic.
(20:56):
I really liked seeing the defense,of the defense that had for several years
a lot of reminders that we had, even the return of Pacho Mesa,
which has been from my favorite defensesof Santa Fe, very injured, very
fucked up knee, that it wassad to lose it to start seeing well,
then who are going to call tohave some defenses well, this defense
(21:21):
with omen, this defense with Millán, this defense has been very interesting.
The dressing has been played, thatis, in a place that for Santa
Fe has always been good, thathas been the right band of the Right
side. We have had very goodand pearls has played a super role.
I am very grateful also for therole of Chaverra. It seems to me
(21:41):
that he' s a guy whogoes out of his mind a little bit
more, but in that spark hehas in that thing of being like a
fanny, he gets very interesting thingsand obviously, he has a fantastic leg.
That was very good. I'm a super fan of Juan Pablo
Zuluaga. I think he' sa player, he' s a well
(22:02):
- established technical guy who' seven been on the bench in the last
few games and when he comes in, he comes in like he' s
been playing the whole game concentrated orinvolved in his thing. Then no,
because I' m very happy withthe team in general. I think they
' re playing a very good roleand I think that' s precisely peirano
catching a lot of talented people isthat you forget? How talented is a
(22:23):
professional football player? You don't forget that the worst of professional football
players is infinitely better than the bestof fans. Or when a person is
a very talented guy and plays footballdivinely, he swears he' s at
the level of players who work onit every day, but that' s
(22:44):
their job. So the point isn' t even if there' s talent,
but there' s a head.And it seems to me that Peira
' s role hasn' t beenvery good in a bit. Draw difficult
moments, Draw moments like the classicwe lost that was difficult, bypass moments
in which it felt that Santa Fewas called to have another semester. Not
(23:10):
weird. At the beginning mostly thewhole semester I was told this is good,
this is bad, how we areplaying and maintaining consistency. There is
a constant message, and that constancyof dressing room is noticed or noticed because
there is the understanding. You seethe different places you look at and you
understand that they all press at thesame time that no one releases and that
(23:32):
not letting go is something that comesfrom the heart of the camelin. That
is not a thing that can comefrom individual initiatives. Obviously, this is
a group thing and that seems tome to have been a noble role.
Pear of course, there' sa team, there' s like right
now his worship mentioned pearls and ofcourse he hadn' t noticed because one,
(23:52):
as a fan, sometimes resists theseplayers who come from direct rivals.
But I think she' s pearlynot only in Santano Ve, but where
she' s gone. He's been a professional guy. Let'
s just say he' s notsome kind of tribune like we say,
he doesn' t mess with anybody. It' s a surrenderer in important
games. I think the man showshis caste, but he wanted to be
(24:14):
just like Pearls' comment, whichhas been completely forgotten and seems to me
an interesting case and which has contributeda lot to the defense and also when
it is required, attacks and launchesvery good centers. Right now in the
game with Tolima I saw him several. But I wanted to ask Santiago a
little bit, although if you leaveme it' s the lega. I
want that question to be important tome, but to link it with what
(24:37):
Santiago is saying, I also wantedto ask him in that idea of Peirano,
if the teams have ideologies, thatis, if Santa Fe with Peirano
in that collective regained a spirit andif he believes that it is true that
there is a sense of identity,of certain swollen with the game, because
(24:59):
nowadays much is also valued for thatthe team puts in, that the team
puts eggs, then it is likeSantiago also how he sees that matter of
the Santa fereña identity. And ifwith Peirano recovers a little, that remembering
that he comes from the line.He was a hairy assistant when he was
in Santa Fe and he comes fromthat line. Well, it seems to
(25:19):
me that Santa Fe has a specificline that I don' t know if
it' s an ideology. Ithink it' s a temper. I
mean, we' ve had teamsplaying warmer and less warmer, more hitters
and less hitters. We have hadteams that play more defensively, like that
(25:41):
of Peluso, champion of the SouthAmerican, and we have had offensive teams
like that of Gareca, which wasvery interesting, although it did not win
anything, and teams like that ofCostas, which was a very balanced team,
but above all, very much tothe Pepa say, biolograted very interesting
things. So, we even hadteams that you didn' t know very
(26:03):
well what they were playing, butthey played very well, like Wilson Gutierrez
' s. And in that,then, the personality of each technician,
because obviously it is seen and whateach technician brings with him works. But
the holy temperament is a temperament ofconstancy, It is a temperament of boldness
is a temperament of constant activity,like that one cannot lose attention. So
(26:26):
with what technicians has gone wrong,with technicians in individualities, for example,
with technicians who are too defensive,that is to say not how to say
hairy, because it is that Pelusowas a guy who since the ball was
coming out was pressing and was veryclear how it was the arrival up teams
(26:51):
that or technicians who are relying toomuch on the ball and on a football
very traditionally defensive like the one thatwe have played in the selection Vía le
makes Alexis Garcia or the Bolillo Gómezhas gone wrong. Pedro Sarmiento who came
from being technical revelation when he waswith Santa Pelo stopped last and I feel
that they are technical as they donot combine with what one understands by the
(27:15):
spirit often, but that is thatit is an ideology. I think it
' s a temperamental thing. TheSantafereno temperament is much more suffered for good
and for bad, because that obviouslymakes one spend very bitter times too,
but not as one says, butbecause we can' t be a team
to which things go easily as ifthings flow without being a bear then.
(27:36):
But then, well, but alittle bit in those ourselves we get that
idea from ourselves and in that wehave teams. Or we demand that our
team never let go of the game. And I think the techs who understand
that sheath again, that is,Wilson, whether it' s the coast
or the pot when they understand thatsheath. That' s when they connect
(28:03):
with what I consider to be thesantafreño temperament. So, I always got
offered a great technician, but he' s gonna see luck in the games.
Then being able doesn' t putin an ourius and start backing out.
And he' s starting to backoff. Sure, no, Dad,
wait a minute. No. Thenin the stadium she sits and from
one the swollen starts. No.No, no, but the technician pulls
back. There' s a disconnect. Then, for that spirit is a
(28:26):
little what they call self- fulfillingprophecy because, obviously, people, demanding
it, make that materialize for goodand for bad, that materializes in something
very good, in something very interesting. Seeing or materializing in the frustration of
seeing the team kick out for Atti. That' s when you start.
(28:47):
That' s when Christo starts sufferingfrom Santiago. I ask him one last
question on this side, and itis I heard Eduardo Mendez the President say
that a few months ago, whenhe found fans on the street in the
malls, they reminded him of hismother in a very bad way and now
he finds them again, but theyno longer remember her as before. And
(29:08):
I want to ask you, asa fan or rather, how you have
seen that relationship that you can nowhave with Santa Fe managers, that is,
you are still being asked for everythingthat was questioned a few months ago
at the administrative or sports level.Or so let' s say, he
(29:32):
calmed down a bit because of theresults of this semester they deleted Cassette,
because to me it seems that theyhave to be both, that is,
one has to be able to enjoythe triumph and has to give credit to
those who deserve credit in that sense, because obviously the management of this semester
has been, of course, muchbetter. Of course, but not at
(29:53):
the same time and you have tounderstand, that is to say, Mendez
doesn' t like me, Idon' t like anything, and for
me the team is much bigger thanits managers. It doesn' t matter
even if your managers are representatives ofthe team owners or if they are actually
the owners of the teams. Footballhas this thing in general. Sport has
this fantastic thing of turning teams intosomething much bigger than the sum of its
(30:15):
elements. I prefer the shirt teamI wear when you' re going to
play football. I have the teamthat connects me to my family and I
have the team that connects me tomy weekends and I have the team that
connects me to the symbols that Ishare with the people who are part of
(30:37):
the swelling. And the team I' m going to drink red to the
campin every fortnight or week, dependingon the dates. That is, the
team is much bigger than that andto that extent it is important that managers
be required to do what they haveto demand from managers, understanding that the
teams go through difficult stages. Ibelieve that Méndez' s work went through
(31:03):
or began to fill many of thegaps in Pastrana' s work. I
think it' s very easy toforget that Pastrana left a gigantic void when
the team left, because it wasthe time when we won the best results.
But at the same time, beingthe team something much bigger, left
us a team with a tronera,left us a club with a tronera,
and those gaps that administratively have tobe filled, also generated the moment when
(31:29):
we are. So Méndez is aperson who himself calls himself a bandits'
lawyer and to that extent, thepeople in Santa Fe, who have a
very neat self- narratory and verymoral adulture that I think we should take
off a little, because in Colombianfootball there is no one who is not
smeared from something that narrative of hisown, because he recuperates a lot then.
(31:56):
That, then, again has somethinggood and has something bad good to
the extent that the guy even recognizeshimself in front of his leaders, which
is conceived without his leaders. Andthat seems important to me, because the
team, because it is much biggerthan its leaders, has to demand fairness
and neatness and, above all,transparency in the face of the bloated leaders.
(32:16):
Or it' s also true.But at the same time, we
should be grateful if we have hadgood results and if afterwards the one who
accepted bringing Peirano, then I supposethat too has to be thanked and that
also has to be recognized? AndI guess that' s what he feels,
that he feels that after a fewvery bad or regular seasons, where
(32:37):
he felt a team mostly full ofcracks. People turned to claim from Mendez.
And now that the team feels solidand feels like a team, a
real team, because people obviously stopdemanding things or yelling at Mendez. Beyond
(32:58):
what I think about personal hyss,not beyond what I intend to survive,
to recharge in a person or goto turn around, to blur anger against
a person. Whether or not it' s the absolute culprit, I don
' t think it exists, whetheror not it' s the person responsible,
because I think it' s anatural symptom of how football teams live.
(33:19):
Football is irrational, absolutely irrational.It is connected with a collective spirit
and with a spirit of something thatyou want to win at all costs in
a world in which you do notalways win. And I think that those
of Santa Fe have had the opportunityto learn that to kick as well and
you have to live that whole thing, from frustration to joy, to the
(33:44):
moment of forgetting, to the momentof remembering and roasting. We need punctures
with good memory, because when wedon' t have good memory, they
come back to the team, theygo back to these cycles. And I
think building a better process also dependson the fans knowing how to demand more
constantly, but, at the sametime, obviously, I understand that eduardly
it is the work that has doneto the head of Santa Fe this semester
(34:06):
and the hiring, for example,like Pa peirano, has really been a
good hiring and it has been apleasant meeting again here in Santa Fe,
of course the risk that the resultssee it faces and, moreover, that
looking to mangar obviously, differentiating thetwo clubs, also has those characteristics a
(34:30):
team that is reversing the historical situationin which it has been and today these
also seem like a party in Bucaramanga. I also had the doubt of Santiago
as the team, like that mystique, also from the story that is around
the city, the possibility of thetitle championship, because in the mystique of
(34:53):
Santafereña it is very connected with suffering, that is, with the Holy Faith,
as the mystic of Santa Fe,the mystic of the city. It
has a lot to do with thisstory that we threw ourselves out that we
did it without mobsters in the'80s that' 90s is a lie that
(35:15):
we had a team that didn't get anything that a little bit is
true, that is, as wedo have a team that doesn' t
give things away to them. Iremember perfectly Roldan pitandom out of place in
a band game, then against SantaFe, Then again memory is important.
I remember if Santa Fe is nota team that is given things, but
at no time is a team thatalso threw on the San Benito to suffer
(35:37):
every step and it seems to methat that obviously can be trotted by simply
living intensely, living passionately and feelingthe football in the deepest. And I
think that, because it is sucha small virtue that it comes to accompany
many other things that such as learningto live life with humor, having a
(36:01):
somewhat more critical temperament, a littlemore self- critical, having to balance
all the time the joy and sadnessof frustration. And then that thing,
of that illusion seems very beautiful tome. I find that there is something
very beautiful, because in meeting withthe different characters that make up that santiferian
(36:23):
temperament and we all dispose because itfeels like that thing in the city,
as when the party approaches, wealso have the first party of visitors.
So I think people are obviously holdingthose terrible nerves inside the belly and there
(36:43):
we' re going to slowly releasethat pressure. I hope, obviously for
the good, but in this respectI will keep a prudent silence Santa Pereña,
Santiago, but and already to goto Candy and the rival, as
you see it also there my questionto the bucar manga Dudamel, how you
see it as caramore the manga hasbeen a great team, that is,
(37:07):
well, yes. I understand thestories of small teams that have opportunities and
windows of opportunity. It seems tome that there is no large or small
equipment that can escape the importance ofa process. I think that in that
sense, Dudamel has been a verypositive influence, because he is a guy
(37:27):
who has clear the chain that goesfrom the managers to the aguatero, as
passing through each element of the teamends up setting up and that obviously also
ends up binding the swollen one.But it' s just that the puff
will always be there. And Ithink those processes are beautiful processes, they
are important processes and they are processesthat will last for what they have to
(37:52):
last as long as the institutions knowhow to measure themselves to be patient and
to think about the long term andnot so much in the short term.
I think you can set up somereally cool stories. I also understand the
extent to which the epic of smallteams is eye- catching and appealing and
(38:16):
amusing, because, obviously, thosestories are more than the stories of the
big teams that nurture football. Ofcourse, I am the first star of
my team in America, two thousandeight, which I remember, at least
if not forgetable, that was thefirst one you remember which one was no,
because it was certainly the one ofthe two thousand twelve. Recently we
(38:36):
talked, in fact, with FedericoDias Granados, also a big fan of
Santa Fe, about how I don' t know the destination. The designs
of life were very generous with Bogotáin two thousand twelve, because the star
Santa Fe gave him the first semester. After more than thirty years. I
don' t remember exactly how manythey were. Then he gives it to
(38:57):
millionaires and I think that year,because, regardless of the colors, the
whole city could enjoy and could knowwhat it was like to shout again champion
and turn around in the Campin Then, that beautiful illusion, that illusion of
the team for the first time champions, is a little Santiago. There.
In conclusion, which one you rememberwas that first star. Your short beard
(39:20):
doesn' t have a great preferencefor fat bald beards. Don' t
get your beard and unlock my cellphone and maroco already. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. I see apattern there on the guests, so
look. I remember, obviously,that star seven in July of two thousand
(39:47):
twelve, because, because it wasthe first star that I saw I was
eighty- two. The previous starof Santa Fe had been seventy- five.
We had built a story about beingthe team that had been thirty-
five years, but thirty- sevenand a half years without winning a star
(40:08):
and then that thing that fucked us, because, because a little seemed to
condemn us to being the tragic teamand, at the same time, a
team that obviously wanted to win,a team that came, besides winning in
two thousand nine in the Colombia Cup, then that had certain illusions about the
(40:30):
things that could be achieved. Well, obviously, until it wasn' t
the end, until that last bitwas shot in the campin against the grass,
because we couldn' t fend off. But I remember it and I
remember each one very very vividly theone that we beat to the Tolima and
(40:53):
the one that we beat to thedem is, just as obviously the city
is that they went wrong in thefirst of them. Also, the first
time I went out of two thousandfive we went to Medellín and all with
my family to watch that game thatwas very sad and very frustrating. Well,
yes, the memory of two thousandtwelve, because obviously I' m
(41:15):
going to stay. In fact,I still have somewhere the front pages of
the newspapers, the front page ofthe expectant, of the pages where the
article was and the more I boughtall of them, all of them,
the chao, the rivers, thered chronicle, the green chronicle, all
a cha ley cha dos. Sure, then, what, of course,
(41:36):
Sure, of course, Santiago,thank you so much for having been here
among a sportswoman, for having gonethrough this space, your preference here with
the viewer to talk, to talktoday about this final. Yes, Santiago,
thank you very much and well,well, many successes also very lucky.
I hope you' ll be giventhis time the tenth Santa Fe,
that the star will stay here inBogotá. He comes looking to do it,
(41:59):
he comes looking to close and well, let' s also hope to
meet again on a football field soon. I wish I did, I played
again, because we stopped seeing eachother in Pandemia. But then I have
anything, you already have my phone. There is an order of Santa Fe
' s T- shirt to putin there that of the dens perfecto Grande
Santiago, so many thanks to agreat one is that Santa Fe and made
(42:22):
me remember Santiago and in an eraof more of itself accurate glory as glorious
the last days may have won theSouth American has been seeing so many titles
recently let' s say now Iforgot the word, but the number of
trophies that each Colombian team has wonin the last twenty years and Santa Fe
(42:45):
I think it is behind national withlike the team that more trophies, more
tournaments has won. The League,won it several times the Cup, the
Superleague, also even in the Women' s League, which is the example
team to follow along with America Andwell, it' s going to be
egg a very exciting ending. Allthe finals are exciting, but now to
give you a new word and close, because let' s talk quickly about
(43:09):
those datics. We' ve alwayssaid that at the beginning. Santa Fe
is first in the reclassification. He' s got fifty points. I hope
it doesn' t happen to himthe neighbor reason why he closes in Bogotá,
the or because the first match willbe this Saturday bu Kramanga in the
night at 7 (43:27):
30, And I fail the memory after the game of
the Colombian team that begins to preparehis way for the Copa América, that
starts on the twenty next exactly thenfifty points and I was going to say
that the same thing does not happento the neighbor of millionaires who made fifty
points and did not serve for anyof those fifty points, for they are,
say fifty points that come out offifteen games won, ten of them
(43:52):
in the regular phase, the otherfive in quadrangular. The other tied it,
tied five in general, and lostfive. Those who lost were in
regular phase in quadrangulars. As Ijust said, it was five wins,
a draw barely got a goal.It is a team that knows how to
defend itself very well and Bucaramanga isthird in the reclassification. He made forty
(44:14):
- six points, thirteen victories,eleven of them in regular phase, seven
draws and five losses. Like SantaFe, I don' t have the
goal data, but I also knowit' s a very difficult team to
break. So, it' sgoing to be me I think it'
s going to be a very closeending. I don' t think we
' ll see a very bulging globalscoreboard. The case of details will be
(44:37):
defined in a goal and well,because none of that is to enjoy the
final. We are talking about twoof the teams with more regularity of the
semester, maybe with Pereira, Tolima, Tolin and that they arrived until that
final phase fighting Then we will havea final two of the best teams and
also, as I said, pendingof the Colombian selection that is already in
(45:00):
these United States, that prepares tomorrowalso plays, as said the four,
half, four and a half transmissionof goal, snail, snail television and
that also prepares that path. We' re not here. I do not
remember much a column that reads hereHernán Peláez, that I believe the past
ones in what I have seen seeingboth at the same time and because nothing
(45:22):
with this we close a sports one. Thank you so much, Andres,
Thank you. Do not forget tofollow the content of the spectator, follow
the contents of the final tomorrow withmany articles closed also for our subscribers,
and follow the contents about the Colombianfootball final about Colombia' s participation in
(45:42):
the Copa América and, of course, that they are pending a sports platform.
Thank you all very much. Thankyou.
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