Steven Fuller

BEER!!!
Today, our guest Steven Fuller, a US Army Veteran and OD discuss time in the infantry, combat zones, transition, the VA, and Wackadoo Brewing in Colorado Springs, CO. Join us for this interview and great stories.
https://wackadoobrewing.com/

Episode Transcript

(00:38):
Good afternoon everybody. Stephen O'donnald here, Odie and we are. It is
June nineteenth, Wednesday afternoon. Wehave a fantastic podcast established and ready for
you guys. Today we are goingto talk about beer, but we're going
to get to that in a littlebit. And we've got Stephen Fuller honor
to have you here. Thanks forbeing our guest today. Really a play

(01:00):
you're to hear about what you're doingwith Wack and Do Brewing Company. And
uh, let's let's kick this off. So Steven, let's talk about your
your veteran time in United States Army. A happy related two hundred and forty
ninth birthday to you last week.So uh let's uh let's get this going.
What how are you doing and how'sColorado these days? I'm doing good.

(01:23):
It's pretty nice out here. Man. The weather is always weird.
You can never pick out what's gonnahappen, but uh it keeps you on
your toes. Yes, yes itdoes. I I'd probably take a whatever
instead of the uh hundred degree heatindex that we've got going on just outside
Chicago last two days. So ohyeah, man, we say this is
the best day to be in ifyou're a meteorologist, because you can be

(01:45):
wrong every single time and nobody cares. I think that's across the board.
Uh. Months ago, it wasuh Mother Nature and Jack Frost were on
a drunk, drunken bender for acouple of months, and you couldn't figure
out if it's gonna be warm orcold. So yeah, all right,
So US Army veteran, you joinedin nineteen ninety eight, and for some
of you, that's uh, that'sprobably older than you know, that's before

(02:08):
your birthday, depending on who's listeningtoday. So nineteen ninety eight to twenty
eleven. Yeah, let's let's talkabout it. Where'd you go? Boot
camp? You know, all thestuff about the Army's I joined February nineteen
ninety eight. I was seventeen yearsold at the time. They sent me
down to Fort Betting, Georgia forbasic training. So I was infantry.

(02:30):
So I went February from Maine toyou know, Georgia, in the worst
part of Georgia, and so Iwas freaking dying. I died alter basic
training due in July. I meanit killed me. Went from there,
went to hood for about a yearand a half and then they sent me
over to Korea for a year backto HOOD, and I got stuck in

(02:52):
that loop. Every time I leftHood, they sent me straight back to
HOOD. So I deployed for OIFone, two, three, and four.
Uh fucking loved it. Excuse mylanguage, sorry, but okay,
cool. So I went to sniperschool, and I mean that was it
for me, Like that was thatwas all I ever wanted, Like that

(03:12):
was the pinnacle for me. Likeall the guys wanted to go ranger,
Airborne, SF. The sniper wasit for me. I absolutely loved it,
you know, it just it fit. I was great at math,
I was good at shooting, andjust you know it was it was a
life for me. So I didthat. Came back from my first tour
in Iraq and they snagged me upto be a drill sergeant because they wanted
combat experience drill sergeants. So Iwas in the army times. I was

(03:35):
the first E five drill sergeant inlike twenty something years, and absolutely hated
it because they sent me up toFort Jackson to be a drill sergeant.
Oh okay, good all for Jacksonat Arms. Guys up there as drill
sergeants. So I arrived and whenI first get to my unit, eight
drill starts in the unit has justbeen relieved from messing around with privates,
and it was you know, soyou're supposed to have like twelve fourteen drill

(03:58):
SARTs in each in each company,and there was like six of us and
I'm this brand new dude and allthe rest of them are like senior E
sevens. And yeah, that wasfun. So every road march, pt
combatives, range time, Oh thatwas all me. Oh your infantry man,
you got that stuff, you gotthat stuff. And then anything near
conditioned office or the nice buildings,sure we got this. Well, we'll

(04:21):
take care of this one. SoI did that. I end up doing
that for three years. They extendedme because they just couldn't hold on to
drill sartants. And then they sentme straight back to it and I immediately
deployed again, Ina, and thenI was there for another like thirteen fourteen
months. Came back and uh,and then we went back for Operation New

(04:43):
Dawn, which wasn't any different exceptwe weren't allowed to shoot at anybody.
Yeah exactly, Yeah, just finalsome engagements change. Let's yeah, give
out soccer balls and a whole lotof meals while you're getting more right.
And so I was coming up.I was on the list for ET seven.
It was like one hundred and fiftyseven on the list to be E
seven. So I was just aboutto be in E seven, and I

(05:04):
was some some bad stuff happened onmy last tour that I didn't believe was
right, and I couldn't. Ijust I was like, this no longer
aligned with my morals. And sofifty six days after my last tour in
Iraq, I was out of theArmy. Okay, So I did you
know, just a couple months shyof fourteen years and I was like,
no, I'm done? Was it? I got you? Well? So

(05:27):
the you mentioned a lot of places, So I you may not know this
about me, but some of myviewers do. Former marine during the first
golf wour, got out for acouple of years, played too much rugby
at college, and then joined theArmy in nineteen ninety nine, went to
EOD school, graduated there February ofone. My first duty station as an

(05:49):
EOD technician. The unit was atFort Benning at the at the airfield next
to the medical The quarterback team.Yeah, so, but they probably says
to me at Fort Jackson for twelvedays. I didn't have to do boot
camp, but I had to getmy uniforms and my paperwork, and I
was I was at Fort Jackson doingthat. So I was there, and

(06:10):
I was there in August and ninetynine. I was only there for like
two weeks. Yeah, and thenyeah, so and Jackson sent me to
They screwed up and sent me toHuntsville because I had three Marine Corps moss
but I didn't have any Army moss. But the EOD community was treating me
as though I was a prior service, you know, a soldier, So

(06:32):
I just go straight to EOD school. I was actually a wall for like
a whole Labor Day weekend because theysent me to Huntsville. Labor Day weekend
was happening, and then I didn'tcheck in until like Tuesday morning, and
and they're like, you're not supposedto be here, You're supposed to be

(06:53):
at Egglin. You're a wall.So they had to fix the orders and
then send me straight down to Floridaat Eggland Air Force Base. So I
had the Army is great about itkeeping track of people. My first tour
in Iraq, we were like eightmonths in and like I said, I
was a sniper, So they justkept assigning me to different units because nobody
had one. It was first Calvs, so it was all mechanized. So
they grabbed up all the snipers andthey just kept like sending us to different

(07:15):
battalions of different brigades. Nobody's reallytracking us, just hey, here's your
next place. You're going over theseguys eight months in unit. Back home
on rear, D calls my exwife and asked if they've heard from me
or if they've seen me. Heis loosing her mind because they know where
I was. And then did youknow what tropical hotspots? You? Like?

(07:38):
You know, I'm I'm on aneighth month vacation and iraqed in a
combat zone, you know, justdoing doing whatever the hell I want.
God, that's hilarious. When Ifinally got a hold of her, she
lost her mind on me. I'vebet I can imagine. Okay, so
you got out in twenty eleven,Yeah, and uh what uh how was

(08:00):
transition did you? Yeah? Imean you did three tours in Iraq,
so uh, like I like wewere saying backstage, I'm three o four
and then eight for Baghdad for me. Yeah, and then I did three
to three to Afghanistan. But thosewere different time different uh uh, different
years. And uh so what wastransition like for you? How has the

(08:24):
v A been uh treating you?You know, what's your experience? Because
and and we talked about the VAsystem with a lot of veterans, and
it's it's regionally, it's you knowit. You find some that are good
and some that aren't, like theone down south of Chicago, Heinz Clinic
down there, which has got itsown zip code. It's so big.

(08:46):
Uh they're they're they're great. ButI dealt with some of the ones,
excuse me in other states, hadsome doings with one in uh in Albuquerque,
and not not a big fan ofthat one, you know. Uh
So I'm wondering how it is therein Colorado Springs or do you have to
go to Denver or you know what, how's that set up for you there
in Colorado? Oh? When Igot out of the army, it was,

(09:07):
you know, here's your DDC fourteen, good luck fuck off? You
know, that was it. Andso I mean that's all I knew.
I mean, my dad and mygrandfather both military, you know, that
was that was what our family did, you know. It's kind of like
a and so that's all I knew. I joined at seventeen. That was
my entire life was the military.So I got out and it was like,

(09:28):
what the hell do I do?And of course, at the same
time, my wife's divorcing me toobecause I was I was messed up.
Yeah, I forget it. Shesaw every tour, she was like,
you got worse and worse and worse. Finally the last tour, she was
like, I can't. I can'tdo this right, you know. I
mean, I looking back on itnow, I can't blame her. I
mean, I get it. Itwas I was bad. Yeah, So

(09:48):
I did like every retar does,and I was like, what do I
do now? I went to Floridabecause that's where they go to retire,
you know. So I moved toFlorida, no family, no friends,
no I knew, no one inthe entire state. And it was just
like okay, and I was somessed up. I was doing anything I
could. I wanted to destroy myself. I wanted to forget I wanted to
completely remove myself from that life.So I was bad for about three straight

(10:13):
years. And we're in Florida,uh Tallahassee. So the cabo it's not
as big as everybody thinks, andit's not as bad. Yeah I've been
you blink and you miss it onit. It's really not that big.
But uh, you know, Igot a couple of degrees. I got
a double bachelor's and mechanical electrical engineeringbecause go to college, right, because

(10:33):
what how does infantry translate to thecivilian world. It doesn't, right,
you know about leadership and motivation andstuff of that nature. I mean,
it makes you a great employee ora manager if you want. But yeah,
but like you know, everything waslike security jobs or you know,
basic jobs. It was nothing thatwas like really a good job for me.
Sure, So I got those degrees, which i've I've never really used.

(10:56):
Uh, And then I met mysecond ex wife. I moved up
to Virginia and as far as thevie goes, like of all I've lived
in like eight different states now,and I think Florida was the worst okay
worst VA system. Those guys didn'thelp me at all. I didn't get
any of my disability rating. WhileI was there, they wouldn't help me
out with with any programs or jobwork or anything. It was nothing.

(11:20):
So I moved up to Virginia withmy second ex wife. She was a
chief worn officer over at the Pentagonand so we lived in Fredericksburg and it
wasn't too bad there, but youhad to go all the way to Richmond
to get seen, yeah, becausethey didn't want to in DC because they
had enough of their own people toworry about. So you had to go
to Richmond. And so there Iwas able somebody to help me. I

(11:41):
got up to like thirty percent disabilityrating, and you know, nothing else,
nobody there was no other real help. I ended up being out in
Kentucky at Fort Knox. That's whereshe got stationed next when they built that
little baby Pentagon there, Yeah,all the hr there, right, So
she took that over and over there. It was a little bit better,

(12:01):
but not too much. And Ithink also as the years went by,
the more and more the VA gotbetter, So I can't really gauge all
worth at the same time. Butthen I did a bunch of crazy crap
in my life and we ended upgetting divorced on my birthday or she asked
me for the divorce on my birthday. Moved up to Colorado eight years ago,
and of all the places I've livedthough, I got to say,

(12:24):
this is probably the best. Likevacare I've had good because they got you
know, Denver's great, but ColoradoSprings also has its own VA clinic here,
and now they've started outsourcing more ofit to civilian side, you know,
doctor yeah, which and you know, funny enough here with the brewery.
You actually got a great example.I think the armies finally figured it
out in a couple of years ago. They started that transitional what do they

(12:48):
call that where you can now internat a real job. Why yeah,
on the job training type stuff.So actually, I've got a lieutenant colonel
out here right now while we're talking, who is finishing up my brew dat
while I'm in here, and uhhe for the next three months he works
for me while the Army's paying himas he's getting ready to retire. That's

(13:09):
fantastic, that's great. I did. I had two soldiers last year in
here that went through the program,and now I've got him so far this
year. But it's just it's absolutelyamazing program. I was like, are
you serious, Like, so Ihave him for the next three months teaching
him how to do an outside careerthat has nothing to do with his job
field in the military, right,and him to be here. Nice.

(13:31):
So did you now did you haveto qualify your business with the VA system
for that? It's like a fivepage document. It's not even through the
it's through the army, right,I understand. Yeah, which is just
fantastic. That's cool, that's verygood. I kept asking telling him.
I was like, man, Iwill there was something like that when I
got out, because they were yeah, I mean, what what, what

(13:52):
the hell? You know, it'suh, I can't just both getting out
of the Marine Corps in the midnineties and then uh, you know,
getting out of the Army on actedfrom active duty and O seven. Yeah,
none of that existed. Yeah,no, And I get what you're
saying. As far as the vA has as a whole, the administration

(14:15):
as a whole may have gone throughsome growing pains. And you know,
because I mean there's there's thousands ofUS veterans, you know, tens of
thousands of US veterans that served inthe Twenty Year War you know, I
were act in Afghanistan, you know, global war on terrorism. Yeah,
they weren't prepared to handle no,well hell no, and uh you know

(14:35):
you see the flip side of that, Like I I got back, I
got back for my first tour,and I had arguments with my uncle who's
a Vietnam vet, and said,you deserve that. Go get it,
Go get your rating. You knowyou're you're not getting any younger. You
served this country. You were drafted, for God's sakes, h you did,
you know, a couple of toursVietnam, you know, go get

(14:58):
your rating and go get go,get help from the VA. That's you've
earned it, you know that typeof thing. And then of course,
you know I had to eat myown crow because it took me a while
to get get to where I neededto go, you know, to get
my rating and then you know,get off. Procrastination is a wonderful thing,
but to get off my stuff andgo after it myself too. So
but uh thing too, like youdon't You're like, do I really deserve

(15:22):
this? Should I be trying toget you know, money, And it's
like for a long time I foughtwith that in myself, like I'm finally
at one hundred percent now because it'sand people telling me, no, you're
fucked up. Yeah, deserve this, and it's like I do I deserve
it? You know. That's thehard thing for you to rack well.
And I and I understand that.Uh. My biggest thing was I didn't

(15:43):
want to be paying out of pocketfor this stuff. You know, you
know, my head scrambled from uhfrom being over there. Uh. Conboys
got blown up twice in the inthe first ship first three months we were
there, and Iraq the first time, you know, and uh I worked,
Uh, I worked on a kidto try and save him. Uh
he was breathing, but he wasbrain dead. Uh you know, and

(16:04):
then we got the second time wegot hit. One of the security guys
took a piece of shrapnel to whowas back. Uh he lived, but
you know, I again, youlose track of these kids. And I
don't know if he's had any paralysisissues or anything like that, because I
know that he took it close tothe spine. You know, but it's

(16:25):
just it is what it is.And you know you you uh, first
day, first day in Afghanistan inoh was it five? Yeah? Oh
five? So first day. Youknow, we arrived in canadhear, but
then I got sent up to fobLogman in Kalt And the first day we're
there, I'm unpacking that night andI walk out of the hoops to have

(16:48):
a cigarette and one oh seven's rightover the camp, you know, And
I'm like, at the time,I didn't realize that it was that it's
the PTSD in you know, Imean, we find it became like a
I became like a junkie with thedeployments. You know. It's I needed
that case. I needed to bein the midst of that chaos in order

(17:10):
to be calm in my head.And yeah, and it's it's ridiculous.
And you know that the Chinese oneoh seven right over the and I know
exactly what they were because we wentand checked them at dawn the next morning
when the sun came up the impactareas and uh, because I mean,
you know, we were taking wewere taking over for another We're doing a

(17:30):
right seat left seat ride with anotherEOD team and they were going home and
uh, we were just starting oursix months there. So I get it,
I understand it. I hope thatthe VA keeps getting better for the
veterans because you know, we arethe numbers just keep getting more and more,

(17:52):
you know, Uh, because andthere's a lot of a lot of
a lot of veterans out there thathaven't even gotten their rating yet, haven't
even been approached, or haven't soughtout help in any capacity, whether it's
a physical ailment or a mental ailment. Uh. And you know, and
it's uh, that's why we're losingso many veterans. And and and that

(18:12):
transplant transfers over into the first respondercommunity too, because a lot of veterans
get off active duty and they gostraight to the first responder community. And
then so if they you know,if they commit suicide in the first responder
community, they're not only a statisticfor the first responders, but they're also
a statistic for the veteran community too, because their combat vets as well.
You know a lot of them are. Anyway, I could talk about I

(18:36):
could talk about the VA for hoursand you know, PTSD and stuff of
that nature. But I promised ouraudience that we would talk about beer.
So you moved. You moved toColorado. The spring is about eight years
ago. You said, is thatcorrect? Okay? And if if my
research, uh is correct. Iwant to say, twenty twenty, nineteen,

(19:02):
twenty twenty, what when did youstart? When did you start?
What I could do? Twenty twentysix days before COVID perfect timing, perfect
timing. Yes, yes, okay, So the interest in beer, I
mean obviously other than possibly being ayou know, a consumer as a lot
of us are from from the military. But you started, it starts you

(19:26):
guys passed the micro brew now oryou're just craft beer or what do you
guys got from this year? Wewent from nano to micro now even smaller,
so I got you. They measureit by how much you produce,
so you look at the first threeyears we were on nanobrewer, which means
we were producing less than five hundredbarrels of beer per year, and this

(19:47):
year we just passed that. Sowe're at the bottom part of the micro
brewery scale. Okay, cool,all right, So without further ado for
the audience before they start turning offthe record, you know, the live
feed, because we know ever gotto the topic of beer. Let's talk
about beer and give us talk aboutWackado where the name came from. When
you started there. I want tomention the VFW post sixty four to sixty

(20:11):
one, which is going to bea part of your story down here in
Fountain, which is just south ofColorado Springs. So let's hear It's Steve.
I'm all over this. I likethis so Wackado Brewing. So the
name comes from I was dating agirl from the Midwest. Anything that's crazy,
weird or different is whackadoo. She'dalways be like, you're so wackadoo,

(20:32):
that's whacked. I've been blown upseveral times. I'm a little a
little off. Yet everything I dois a little weird, a little different,
like who the hell opens a brewery, you know, right into COVID,
and so the name stuck. AndI looked online and there was no
Wackado companies anywhere, so I didn'thave to fight for a name or a
TRADEMARKT was very simple, very easy, And it stands out a lot of

(20:55):
breweries have like very generic names,and wacked do really doesn't know. I
guess so many people that come inalmost daily, they're like, I came
in because I saw the name,you know, and so I was really
So we started off six days beforeCOVID, so we couldn't get a building,
we couldn't get loans. Nobody wouldtouch us because everything was shutting down
and it was really bad, likethey just the whole industry froze. So

(21:18):
I'm a lifetime member down at theVFW six four six one in Fountain and
they've got a little, literally asix hundred square foot shack in behind their
main building that they weren't using foranything. And I was like, hey
man, let me throw a crazyidea at you guys. Let me build
the brewery in here. I'll giveyou guys beer in exchange for let me
use the place, you know,and we'll build it up together. And
I went through about a three monthprocess with the whole chain of command with

(21:42):
nobody down here is gonna want craftbeer. They all drink bud cores Bush.
Nobody's gonna want craft beer. AndI was like, just let me
try. Let me, you know, get a beer made, you know,
and see what everybody thinks of it. So we made one beer and
we sold it out in the dayand they were like, Okay, let's
see you do that again. Acouple of days and they're like, okay,

(22:03):
all right. So they gave mea full time tap there, and
after another like two or three months, they gave me a second tap.
Now I've got four taps down therefull time. I still we still serve
there, you know, bear tothem, and we still do eve And
it was always a huge way topush, you know, here's what we
are, here's what we're doing.And it was all working with the VFW
and working with the veterans down there, and that's how we slowly built up

(22:26):
very carefully during COVID when everything wasshut down. You're no, nobody's shutting
down a VFW. No. TheyI was out in Arizona, they were
you know, we would do uh, there would be like a week here
or a week there that you know, everybody was shutting down. But and
they had to, you know,they had to close close the doors on

(22:47):
the VFW. But uh, youknow, we got into this basically like
hopscotching from garage driveways and garages,hanging out with each other. Uh,
you know whatever. You know,it's it's I understand exactly, you know.
I And don't get me wrong,I'm not trying to take away from
the fact that COVID impacted a lotof people in a negative capacity. You

(23:10):
know, but it's just some peoplegot hit harder than others, and I'm
glad that you were able to dowith what you're doing with it. We're
going to go into this, We'regoing to go down your list of brute
of beers here in a minute,but please continue with your story. I
didn't mean to share here, Sowe start off with that. And you

(23:30):
know, everybody says to open upa brewery, you need two hundred and
fifty five hundred thousand dollars minimum minimum. It's extremely expensive. All the equipment
is incredibly expensive. So I literallysold everything I owned, and we had
seventeen thousand dollars, and I foundanother brewery that was they were once all
this was over, they were goingto expand, so they'd shut down temporarily

(23:53):
and then they were going to change. So they were selling off a bunch
of their old equipment. So Ibought a used one barrel propanees them,
which is is garbage, but itwas it still worked. I had to
do some work to it, butfive hundred bucks. They sold it to
me. And then another brewery herethat I've become really good friends with in
town. They their old GLIC callsystem was you know, not working very

(24:15):
well and they wanted to replace it. So I bought that off him for
five hundred dollars, and it wassomething I still constantly work on it.
I still use the damn thing,but it runs most of the time.
I got you. But that's howwe started. With just basic equipment.
I was buying secondhand, used stuffoff anybody I could that we could afford.
And then a couple of people downthere, like there was one guy.

(24:36):
I've got him up on my wall. He passed away last year.
His name was Kenny. He onlyknew me like two weeks at the time,
and he was like, I likewhat you're doing, you know,
what do you what's next? Whatdo you need next? And I was
like, well, I need likethree thousand dollars so we can buy a
bunch of kegs and we can start, you know, actually getting out a
little bit. Sure, next dayhe walks in with a check for three

(24:56):
thousand dollars. It didn't even amazingA yeah to him. You know,
we were able to make that nextjump, and then we were able to
start getting kegs to other vfw's andother places. We started bringing in a
little bit of money, and weslowly built up from that. Two and
a half years later, COVID kindof receded and everything started to open back
up. I found a location uphere in the Springs. We moved up
here, and slowly but surely overthe last couple of years, I now

(25:19):
have a brand new five barrel system, brand new keg washer. You know,
we've got some really nice equipment thattap them. Looks great. And
I always promise people from the veryfirst day, every few weeks, something
new, something we're improving, somethingwe're going to continue to grow, and
we have every time people walk inhere, we have something new that's awesome.
And I took a dinner at yourwebsite and I really one of the

(25:41):
things that really impressed me about thewebsite that you have for your your brew
company is that you're you're always askingquestions in the sense of what would you
like to see? You know,a lot of a lot of establishments.
You know, you have like ait's almost like an AI thing that that
pops up at the bottom and it'syou know, ask whack of bower.
Well, I could do a questionif you have a question about this or

(26:03):
that or whatever. And I thinkit's fantastic because It gives a sense the
consumer, the person that's looking atyour site, it gives them the sense
that you're already interacting with people atthe brewery and you haven't even walked through
the threshold of the front door yet. And I like that. I like
that about that. Any messages onsocial media, whether it be Instagram,
Facebook, whatever it is, you'retalking to me, I'm the one who

(26:25):
all that. I still do emailswhat And the idea was always, you
know, I am by no meansan expert. I've been brewing eight years
now professionally, and brewery for alittle over four. But you know,
the idea is, if if somebodycomes in they're like, hey, have
you ever thought about this kind ofbeer? Or have you ever been interested
in doing this? I immediately gothrough and I'll start making something. Whatever

(26:45):
it is, I'm all for it. So I make one hundred and twenty
seven different beers. I got twentyon tap at all times. We rotate
one or two of them every week, so I keep the batches small so
we can go through them, butthey come back. But it's always the
idea. It's a nice white selectiontoo, like a lot of breeries right
now, nothing against them because everybodyloves IPAs, but like, usually half
the board is IPAs, and thenyou'll have other types. Yeah, I've

(27:08):
got three IPAs on tap right now. I've got blondes, I've got stouts
in the middle of the summer.I've got light beers in the middle of
the winter. Doesn't matter, it'swhat people like. And so I want
to have a white selection and youcan walk in the door and tell me
you hated nineteen of my beers ifyou liked one of them, and you'll
sit there and have a few ofthat one beer. I'm good. I'm
happier with that. I understand havean ego. I've walked into breweries and

(27:30):
been like, hey, I thinkthis beer's a little offer. This wasn't
my taste, and they'll get upsetand they'll get offended by it, and
I'm like, well, everybody's tastebuds on this planet are different. Sure,
twenty people the same beer, andeveryone will give me a slightly different
answer to what they thought of thatbeer, yeah, or what hint of
whatever flavor they have on the theaftertaste, you know, And I get
it. You can't please everybody,And then I'm you know I'm you're the

(27:53):
I want to say, I wouldsay you're the first, but talking about
a tangible you know, like youhave a store front and you you have
weares and products that you sell toconsumers. I've had other I've had other
entrepreneurs on here, but this you'rethe first entrepreneur that I've had on that
I believe if I remember correctly,first entrepreneur, veteran entrepreneur that you know,

(28:15):
you're the first brew company that I'vehad on here. I mean there's
a ton of veterans out there thathave distilleries, you know, for liquor
and whiskeys and RUMs and all sortsof stuff. And there's a brother of
mine from E O. D.He's got a place right there in Colorado
Springs. I think it's three days, three hundred days of Shine and yeah,

(28:38):
yeah, that's Mike Gerard. He'syeah, he's good. Good.
We served together on on active duty. I know Mike for a long time.
I have to go over and noa lot of the beer festivals,
we end up right beside him.That's awesome. Oh my god, I
love his stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I had a I had a cousin
that went out there to do somebusiness in Colorado Springs, not affiliated with

(28:59):
the Mill military. He did somebusiness and he brought me back one of
one of Mike's things of moonshine,and oh it was good. He's got
some good products. He's got somegood products. So but I you know,
I like, I started my owncoffee company almost three years ago.
So it's it's just nice to talkhave conversations with fellow fellow entrepreneurs. You
know, Uh, I don't.I don't know if you're on that.

(29:22):
There's an entrepreneurs site on Facebook.I don't know if you're a part of
it or not, but I cansend you an invitation to it. We
get we get that to in aminute. So born and raised, the
the Blackado Brewing was born and raisedin the back of a VFW, which
is awesome. I love that story. The only brewery in America to ever

(29:42):
start at a VFW. Yep,we still worked. And that's always something
I've said from the day one isI never forget where I come from.
I've seen other places here in townthat have gotten really big and they forgot
who helped them get there. Yeah, start, they stopped it like they'll
start off kind of like what Idid, where they're helping veterans and they're
doing all this stuff with the nonprofits, and then when they start reaching a

(30:03):
certain size, they realize it's allabout chasing money and no longer about helping
the community. Yeah, and alreadyit really hurts. But so I promised
we'll always stay. You know,the way we are now, I will
never Every single day I'm here.For the last four years, I've worked
eighty to one hundred hours every week. I've only ever taken seven days off.
My last day off was three hundredand eleven days ago, and I've

(30:26):
never paid myself a dime. Iunderstand there is to help I get it.
You'll always see me or all ofmy staff are either veterans or direct
family members of veterans, and everythingwe do here, we're also the only
brewery in America. We donate onehundred percent of our profits to twelve different
nonprofit organizations, nine of which areveteran nonprofit organizations. That's amazing. I

(30:48):
always everything we did because I meannothing against them. But I'm a lifetime
member of the VFW, the AmericanLegion, the Retired List location. They
all have a great mission statement forhow they help and the things they do
in the community, but when youreally become a part of them, a
lot of them really don't do much. I understood. Yeah, that's really
That's a regional thing too, islike the VA you know, some of
them are very Oh my god.We had Stacy Stacy Boyer on last week

(31:12):
and she is in the face ofthe public helping the community as the commander
of the VFW in Naperville, Illinois, and she is rocking it. And
that's regional too. You know.Some vfw's are fantastic. It's some are
just kind of you know, we'vegot enough for the lights on just one
day a week, that type ofthing. Yeah, sont five other veteran

(31:34):
owned brewers here in town, andI'm I'm so excited and glad I can
work with most of them and anythinglike that. But there's not them specifically,
but in general, I've seen alot of businesses that have that tagline
veteran owned and operated a ten militarydiscount. That's great, but what are
you doing? You know? Thatwas always the point I wanted to show

(31:56):
people because I was told from dayone that what I doing is impossible.
I'll be bankrupt in a year.You cannot This is not a sustainable business
model. You know, there's noway you can succeed. It's just I
was told NonStop that it was impossiblefrom people in the community and just regular
you know, other veterans told that, and uh, we struggled for quite

(32:16):
a while. But I we're overfour years in now, and I have
maintained this every day, you know, and we want to continue to show
people there's more that can be donebecause there's great systems out there for veterans,
but nobody takes care of a veteranlike a veteran does. Nobody understands
and a lot of people there's like, oh, I donated, I bought
this wristband, or you know,I bought this blanket. H you actually

(32:39):
doing. That's great that you threwsome money at a company and hoped that
they did the right thing with it. But what are you doing? Can
you show people? You know?Right? And so I wanted to.
I wanted to show people you really, could you know, do something like
this. That's fantastic. That's fantastic, all right? So one hundred percent
own and operated I with my coffeecompany. I it's all veterans that are

(33:02):
associated with I do my merchandise.People are veterans. My you know,
my my roaster's a veteran. Mymarketing guy, he's you know, he's
an s F guy that I workedwith in Afghanistan a long time ago.
I get it. I understand it. It's it makes things easier, I
would say, because we're like mindedindividuals and we talk the same language.

(33:22):
Yeah. So let's uh okay.So founded in Fountain, but then you
guys moved two years later, youmoved to Colorado Springs where your brewte where
you're sitting now at your at youruh at your brew house. I'm in
my office, so you don't youknow now that I'm in my luxurious little
office. Yeah, I got you, all right. So you've got you're

(33:46):
talking about different types of beers.You got your website, I know you
said one hundred nundred and twenty seven. Yeah, that doesn't get updated very
often. Yeah, Texas who's alsoa veteran who does my website and a
few weeks for him to update anything. Yeah, I get it. I
was impressed with one hundred and eleven. I mean, you know, you

(34:07):
give or to take a couple ofyou know, one hundred and twenty seven.
That's that's fantastic, that's amazing.I this uh one of them that
caught my uh that caught my eyeis you know you've got halfs, You've
got I pas, You've got porters, red ales, your loggers, your
Pilsners, your blondes. You dohave like you said, I pas,

(34:28):
I didn't see. I only sawI think three or four like you were
saying, yeah, you know,uh, and they all have unique names.
That's cool as hell. I likethat. Uh let's talk about this,
uh Choco choco banana stout. Whatis that? So this is the
second iteration of it, and I'mstill kind of tweaking it. So it's
pounds per barrel, real bananas,and then I've got regular and pale chocolate

(34:52):
in there. First iteration I madewith a dark chocolate and it was too
bitter and like an overrode everything,and it was this version. I still
need to bring the hops down alittle bit, and uh, bring the
chocolate back a little bit because thebananas on the back end, you don't
get like the people think they're goingto bite into a banana. It's not
that much banana. It's bananas kindof on the back. But yeah,

(35:13):
it's I like good solid, traditionalbeers, and I make sure there's always
a few on there. And thenI like to play and that I'm a
little whack of you, so uh, I get ideas. And I had
like the Peter Piper's pine of pickledpeppers there. You know, I like
to like to mess with people,and you know, some of them are
really good and the other ones notso much. I'm not touching that with

(35:34):
a ten football. I I willmess that up with all the the PE's
and that and everything. Oh mybrain couldn't handle that, no matter how
much coffee I've had. Yeah,like I give me Peters yeah that one,
yeah, yeah, yeah, exactlyexactly. So what now what kind
of what kind of coffee are youusing for your coffee? You have a
coffee stout, yeah, yeah,number twenty. My pecan Bomber. So

(35:57):
I've been working with her names KerryBeavers. She owns Soldier Girl Coffee.
So when I've of Carrie, yes, I've never met her, but I
know her very well. Had agreat work with the veteran community too.
Always stuff And now I'm pretty sureit's all right to say now it's been
long enough, but she is theofficial coffee of Camp David. Oh wow,
very quick. Wow, that blewmy mind. So when we started

(36:21):
up the brewery, she had juststarted the coffee company. So it was
like almost the exact same time,right, And when I first started up,
I wanted to do everything we do, we try to source from veterans
as often as possible, like LuckyNumber thirteen. They're that barrel age,
that one. All my barrels comefrom thirteen to fifty distilling. They're also
veteran owned right here in the spring. So I get all my barrels from
him. But with her, withthe coffee I wanted to make. I

(36:45):
love nitro stouts. I love nitrois just amazing, and I wanted to
make coffee nitro. And I reachedout to, you know, the big
guy. I don't know, Iguess we can say it, but yeah,
I reached out to the Black RifleCoffee right. Sure, they were
the big veteran coffee company and upthe food chain about eight emails high.
And then they just stopped talking tous. I couldn't order enough, we

(37:07):
weren't well known enough. I waslike, okay, so I reached out
to her and she was like,great, how much would you like to
buy? I was like, well, I need like forty pounds and she
was like what real because at thattime she was just like you know a
couple of bare back there, yeah, early on exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
So I was like forty pounds andshe was like what are you doing

(37:28):
with it? And I doing andshe loved the idea, and we've been
working together ever since. And nowyou know, she even flew out here
once for one of the times thatI made the one of the two stouts
that we make with her coffee,and she just was absolutely blown away at
the process and how it all worked. So and I've even got some of
her bags of coffee here for salebecause she's a veteran and I wor yea.

(37:51):
So we always have a full timenitro stout on and I make a
few different ones now, but twoof them have her coffee in it.
That's fantastic. I got it,Like I said, uh, and we
were backstage. If if I endup in uh uh Plublow for that gig,
definitely gonna come up the road andsee you guys. Another thing is
I'm gonna actually I'm glad I thoughtof this. We had on a couple

(38:14):
of weeks ago. We had onArt and Mike from Resurrection Ranch down the
west Plublow. Yeah there. Idon't know if you're familiar with them or
if you've talked to them. Okay, excellent, I don't have to connect
the dots there. That's fantastic,uh, because I thought of them as
soon as uh, you know,we were talking about getting this getting this
podcast going, so and then obviouslyMike Gerard there in Colorado Springs. So

(38:39):
yeah, man, this is thisis great. Yeah. Here locally,
I work with Rock and Vets Ranch. It's a husband and wife veteran team
that have an animal rescue farm.All my brain goes to them to help
feed their animals. And I madea beer for him a few months ago
called Dush Donkey Schlogging. It wasbroken. It was a very rare style

(38:59):
of beer for this area, andit sounds it's a lot cleaner than people
think. It translates to it meanshit the donkey. Every time they're feeding
the animals, they have a donkeythat runs in and tries to get the
food, and they gotta smack himanyway. So I work with them,
and then I also work with WarriorMission Ranch. I don't know if you've
ever heard of Gave. That dudeis a jit badass and not to talk

(39:20):
about it, but I finally,you know, I started poking around and
he's a legit badass and he ownsWarrior Mission Ranch and sometimes we give them
some of our grain too, andwe've been doing some. Uh he just
did one of his graduation events outthere because he takes veterans and teach him
how to rope and ride and thenthey do a big rodeo event at the
end of it, and we wentout there and served some beer in This
is the second year we've worked withhim doing that too. That's awesome.

(39:44):
I mean, any way I can, I'm always trying to connect and network
and build it up and do morewith all any anybody in the veteran community
that we can. Yeah, that'sabsolutely that's fantastic. So what's uh so,
what's next for Wackado? I mean, if you U you went to
you said you got to the microlevel. Now, so what's the what's

(40:05):
the threshold from micro to the nextlevel? I think up to twenty five
hundred barrels a year something like that. So, I mean, we're going
to be in that range for awhile, sure, but I don't plan
on getting too much bigger than that. We like. We like where we
are because it's still personable. Youcan still talk to me every day.
All of my staff are trained brewers, so whenever you walk in the bar,
you're never just talking to a bartender, you're talking to somebody trained and
puts beer up on that board.Yeah, we can all give you a

(40:30):
tour of the facility. It's notmuch. I'd say it's a nickel tour.
It's not even quite the Diamond door. But a couple months ago we
finally got our own canning line andso we've started producing some cans. We're
in a couple of liquor stores.There's a veteran one down in Fountain actually
called Kings Liquor. It's veteran owned, and we've got beer in there and
we've got you know, cans ofbeer in the shelves now, so we
can sell stuff to go. Sothat was our big The next big leap

(40:52):
for us was finally beer. Yeah, now you sell them packs of four
or six four because they're pints yeah, I got you. Cool, But
you can do a mix and matchor whatever, so you know, it's
whatever you want. Plus, westill do the growler filled ups. A
lot of people are getting away fromfilling growlers, so more customers come in
because we still fill growlers, andthey've got a ton of growlers at home.

(41:15):
Sure, so I don't mind.I've got growlers in storage from from
a couple of places that I wentto, so yeah, I get it.
That's awesome. So and I wasjust I'm glad that you mentioned that,
because you were talking about the liquorstore down Fountain. I was going
to ask, are you do youhave aspirations to get into any type of,

(41:37):
uh some type of a scale ofdistribution, you know, at least
in the in the area, otherthan other than the footprint that you have
in Kylorad Springs and Fountain. I'dlike to get a few more places,
but we don't want to get intothat big production. I've seen what happens,
you know, scaling up. One, you're making less money off your
product because now you're distributing everywhere,and that costs you know, a big

(42:00):
hunkier profit into that. But two, also I didn't want to get so
big that this is no longer,you know, something we enjoy and something
that is still personable. The morework means I got to bring on more
staff, which means, you know, we're going to be getting so much
busier. And I don't want togo chasing money. You know, everywhere
we distribute to we have a coupleof tap rooms here in town we sell

(42:22):
beer to, plus the VFW andthen the two liquor stores, and we've
got a civic center that we've gotbeer at. But every one of those
people came to us and asked usfor our beer. It wasn't like how
everybody's door trying to sell my product. This was good enough that people came
to us and asked for it.And to me, that means a lot
more than me just throwing beer inyour face and be like, you want

(42:43):
to carry my beer, you wantto sell my beer? Sure, I
understand that. And keeping this scale, I never want to get a bigger
building. I don't want to havethirty employees where we are right now.
I think this is the right feel, in the right environment, and we
are able to do the most goodwith what money we have. Sure,
Sure, that's great. So whatare some what are some of the veteran

(43:08):
nonprofits that you're working with? Allright, right off the bat, since
day one, four years ago,and it's been amazing ever since twenty two
until none. That one's very importantto me. It means a lot to
me. I've lost a lot offriends, and it was hard. This
last Memorial really hurt because I hada really good friend of mine he killed

(43:28):
himself two days before Memorial Day,and then I lost another friend right after
Memorial Day. There were both peoplethat helped me and believed in the Brewery
and helped us move up here.Brewed with me. We've done a lot
of great stuff together, and it'shard sometimes to think about how much I'm
working and the number of people I'velost. That one really ate me up
for a few days, you know, I really did. I'm sorry,

(43:50):
and so that one's very important tome. And the state leader here for
Colorado is Chris Ruble. Chris hasbeen by my side since day one when
I told him were I wanted todo with the Brewery and how I wanted
it to be a facilitator for thoseprograms. Sure always worked with me.
We've done a lot of great eventswith twenty two until None, and like

(44:12):
last year, we did our noshavee November that's where they auction off people's
beards to raise money. We raisedone thousand dollars in one night here at
the brewery. That's awesome. That'shuge for me to think about. And
we even make a special beer farmcalled twenty two Peaches. It's a palisade
Peach says on for twenty two untilNone, so fundraiser for him every time
it's on tap. We work withAngels of the Fallen Foundation. I work

(44:36):
with Riders for kids. We workwith the Honor Flight. Actually, this
Saturday, they're having their big galadinner and I'm one of the guest speakers.
I was nice. They're like,yeah, that's awesome. You know
who I am, right, Yeah, hey man, take it. It's
a great experience. Man, it'sawesome. Congratulations. The only thing I'm

(44:58):
scared of is because she said it'scowboy formal and I'm not sure what that
is. But tell me shopping tomorrowand find me cowboy formal. Yeah,
there you go, there you go. That's awesome. But these programs absolutely
amazing. And then even on likethe smaller local scale We work with ut
Valley Park. It's a trail systemin a park right here, like half

(45:21):
a mile from the brewery. Thisvolunteer run and nonprofit that they maintain it
and they've built it up. Andso we've actually got a beer on tap
right now, the beautiful Blonde numberone there. Yeah, fifty sense of
every glasgows directly to them, andthey actually came in and brewed it with
me, and when we released it, we did a big fundraising party here
for them. That's fantastic of allthings, of all scales. We work

(45:44):
with everybody who can, like Isaid, with Rock and bet Ranch,
Warrior, Mission Ranch, you know, all of these programs. Anything where
we can help, we jump onit. Like we even work with the
Betty White Foundation, so that otherBeau that's on there right now, Betty.
I saw that about the Betty Whitedid you have? Yeah, And
it's amazing to me so many peoplein like you do know she was a
veteran right and there like what it'slike, Yeah, she was a nurse
in World War Two and then likeyeah she was, yeah, and she

(46:06):
was an amazing woman. About adecade ago I had the distinct donor actually
got to meet her in person.That's fantastic. DC doing a production play
and I got Angela Lansbury and Iwas like, this is my childhood right
in front of me, exactly.That's awesome. The day after I made
that beer and I've been making andwe put it back up on tap and

(46:28):
it's for her Animal Foundation. That'sfantastic, man, that's great. Like
that. It's just that's it.That's what I want to I want to
keep like poking people and showing themlike you can do this, we can
do these things, you know,Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Just gotta
gotta find the strength in the motivationand keep taking that step, step by
step moving on. That was thecrazy thing. You know, it's such

(46:49):
a cliche when you think about it. So, uh, six six and
a half years ago, Uh,doctors told me I had two to three
years left to live and I wasdone. It was over, and I
did like everybody else. I wenthome and I kind of moped and cried
for a couple of weeks, andthen I was like, well what now?
So I started smoking, bought amotorcycle. Yeah. I think that's

(47:15):
been the biggest driver I tell peopleis the brewery saved my life. I've
lost seventy five pounds. I'm doinggreat. The doctor has no idea how
I'm still going. He's like,seriously, I would you do? So
I stopped taking all the medications.Yeah, started saying and he was like,
don't ever say that again. AndI was like, okay, But
and here I have drive, direction, purpose, mission and every single day

(47:37):
I'm up and I'm here by seventhirty in the morning and I usually don't
get out of here untill ten atnight. Yeah, but there's never been
a day I didn't want to behere and doing this. And it's that
drive and having people come in andthanking me or telling me that they have
a similar story. I got alady who comes in here stage four cancer.
It was done, and she camein here. She was like,

(47:58):
I might as well have a coupleof beers then since fucked anyways. Yeah
right, She's going on like sixmonths now and still going and should here
every week and gives me a bigold hug and she's like, I'll be
here as long as you are.And I was like, Okay, that's
awesome, man, that's you know, it's it's and this is exactly thank
you for that because this is exactlythe personal touch that I want to with

(48:21):
the stories that we share as veterans. I want this is exactly what you
know, the tripwire is all about, and what I'm trying to bring to
our audience in the fact of youknow, we you and I are completely
different people. We serve different branches, we serve different areas, we chewed
a lot of the same dirt,we did different jobs, but we have
a common denominator and we also wehave stories that we need to share so

(48:46):
that way other people hear about themand can and can stand up and pick
themselves up or dust themselves off andtake that step forward. And it's been,
uh, it's been an honor toyou know, to hear your story
today. What as we're getting closertoo wrapping this up, what's your favorite
beer that you have out of theone hundred and twenty seven that you have?

(49:08):
And then let's move into a greatquote that you that that comes from
Steven Fuller. So what do yougot, bud? All right, Well,
that's kind of hard. I waslike picking your favorite child. Honestly,
I think one of one of thebest beers I'll always jump on is

(49:28):
we make one called tail Gunner.So it's another one of the coffee nitro
stouts, and that one uses Colombiancoffee and it is smooth, its silky.
The best compliment I ever got onit was a guy who absolutely hated
me. We never got along.He hated all the beers he ever tried
here, and then he finally hadit and he said, you know,
I think this is left hand milkstout done right. And I was like,

(49:51):
all right, I'll take that.Yeah, exactly. And this is
the guy that absolutely hates me tosay that was all right, I'll take
that. That's awesome, that's awesome. I've got a quote. It's not
I don't know how inspirational it is, but it's actually written. I didn't
even think about that till you justsaid it on the cover of my brew
book that has all of my recipesin it for all my employees to see.

(50:13):
And I wrote it the very firsttime I wrote a recipe. I
built a book, and on thecover it says, every bad beer is
a chance for somebody else to takeyour customer. And I think that translates
into more than just beer, butit's that every time you're like I can
put out a half assed product everytime you think it not trying to make
the best you could. It's forsomebody else to get your customer or to

(50:35):
get a part of your life becauseyou're just half passing it and somebody else
relationships however you want to apply itto your own life. It's every time
you half asked something instead and you'relike, ah, whatever, it's good
enough. I'll just put it outthere as Fielse is doing it better than
you, and they're going to takesomething of yours. Yeah, I get
it. I like it. Ilike it. And Steve, I'm looking

(50:58):
forward to when I get out inthe colle I'm looking forward to seeing you
and then uh, maybe you andI will have to take a trip up
to three hundred Days of Shine andsee Mike and talk to him. And
I know, I know, butI haven't seen him in years, and
uh, you know, we cantalk about all the crazy stories from when
him and I were at the schoolhouseand other things. It's just got Yeah,
we were just nuts, you knowhow it is. So see,

(51:21):
I mean, you guys are theonly ones I've always said is you guys
are the only ones worse than infantry. Oh, it's for the for the
job. You mean, as faras how crazy we are, well,
yeah, yeah, yeah, I'munhinged. I'm unhinged. I I don't
uh, I won't fight it,you know I I I embrace it now
these days. So it's all goodman. But UH appreciate the quote.
That's fantastic. I love it.And it's been an honor to have you

(51:43):
on here today, UH for forour audience, it's been scrolling across the
bottom the entire time that we've beenon here today. Great stories, fantastic.
We'll check in with you again inthe near future, Steven, We'll
have you back here on UH tripwire for the UH for the k r
A family, and really thank youvery much for your time, brother,

(52:04):
and and I'll be staying in touch. I appreciate it. That's it for
a trip wire this day today,on Wednesday, June nineteenth. Guys,
God bless you, God bless America, and let's stay strong and we look
see you the same time, sameplace next week. Thank you.