S5 Bonus Zizan Cult Unveiled The Early Days of the Zizians - In Her Own Words - Ep 2 - True Crime and Wine Time

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mm hmmmmm, h.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
M hmmmm. Hey, everybody, welcome true crime and Wine Time.
True Crime and Wine Time, but the special investigation physizians. Yes,

(00:29):
it's it's been a roller coaster so far.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
That it has.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
I don't think I don't think it's disappointed anybody yet.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I don't think it will. I can't imagine it disappointing anybody.
You you know me and and you know Tara. But
who you don't know is who's down below us but
certainly still above us, because she lifts the content up
and and and that would be Captain then capt'n.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
How are you doing, hey, guys, I would be lying
if I didn't say I was super nervous for it
to be on stream tonight. But I'm happy to be here,
and I do. Most of our viewers know me because
I'm always making bad jokes and chats. So now you
get to hear them in my voice.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, right now, we'll know forever the tone of her
her voice. Thank you for being here, Cabin. We're so
excited to have you. I told some people there was
going to be a surprise tonight, and the surprise is you,
and you look beautiful tonight, Our dear Terry couldn't be
with us tonight, but she is in the chest, so

(01:42):
maybe hopefully we don't disappoint her tonight and her just
be like.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Okay, we are. We are a duo of of of
unfortunate events, is what we are. I mean couldn't control hers.
I couldn't really control mine. But you know I wasn't
here on Thursday because a neurovirus. It was just bad. Yeah,

(02:08):
it's it's been quite the seven to ten days I suppose.
But Terry said, she's holding down the bed. I mean,
your job, don't let it take off. This is not
bed knobs and broomsticks or little Nemo. So and that's
a deep if you know what I'm talking about, that's
a deep damn cut. Well, Uh, there do you want

(02:37):
to do? You want to talk about what's in store?

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, So we're here tonight to bring to you guys,
episode two of our special investigation, Zizzion's Unveiled.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
This is a multi part deep dive into the world
of the Zizzian Cult, a group of radical trans vegan
rationalist anarchists that have left a trail of bodies from
coast to coast recently. This is by far the wildest,

(03:11):
most complex true crime case I have ever come across.
And I've been in this world for a long time.
And because it's so recent, there's new news coming out
all the time. So we got a lot of information
to give you guys. But so for the next several Sundays,

(03:31):
to make this story easier, we've broken it down. So
for the next several Sundays, you can join us here
at nine pm Eastern as we unspend this insane web
of craziness they weaved. And so if you haven't yet,
be sure to like this video so people can see

(03:52):
us and watch with us, and subscribe to our channel
and turn that notification bell on so you don't miss
when we go live.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yes, and if there's one thing that I learned about
this this series and reading it and you know everything
that's been going on with it, it requires drinking. And
so let's talk about what we have in our hands.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
In our hands, well, I'll go first. I'll go first.
So for the last episode, I made the mistake of
drinking all of my wine before the show. Uh, So
tonight I came prepared with two bottles of Barefoot mescato.
Oh that first bottle is empty already, so don't worry.

(04:47):
I got a second one, because if there's any case
that needs I'm gonna need to drink both of those.
It's gonna be tonight. While reading for this blog, I'm
also drinking out of my Darth Vader wine glass and
I have on my Silicon Valley black turtleneck. So to really,

(05:09):
you know, get into the vibe of tonight, It'll make
sense later, I promise, Katn, what about you?

Speaker 1 (05:18):
To be honest, wine probably would hit me a little
too hard to be on a live stream, So I'm
sticking with the last. A Beata strawberry lagger that I
found in the bridge calls somewhat last minute, but according
to the ABTA website, it's made with pilsner and wheat
malts tradition hops and the finest Louisiana grown strawberries, resulting

(05:40):
in a lake gold lagger with a subtle haze. Now
my words, it is my favorite beer, and I could
not find it when I lived on the West Coast.
Now that I'm back in Georgia, I saw it at
the store and made my Marty.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Brass so I love that.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
But there was only one unfortunately, so after that we're
going to be doing rather. I'm gonna have.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
To see if we have that in Ohio, because that
sounds pretty good. I'm not a beer drinker, but that
sounds delicious.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
So it does sound really good. And you know, I
feel like anytime that a beer is described, it really
needs a Southern accent, like and the finest Louisiana grown
strawberr is resulting in the lato louder. It just it
just feels like it needs it. Yeah, I'm just gonna

(06:35):
stick with beer tonight. Why because I can. I don't.
This is this story is wild and I had more
of these than of those, so it's a ballad brewing
Cole style Golden Ale. It's about five point four percent.
It's really not It's not a lot, but I do
have five of them, so yay, it's pretty good for
it being like in the sixties right now outside which

(06:59):
is been weird. It was very breezy today, not nearly
as breezy for some of our as it has been
for some of our friends Captain included, and a few
others who are here with us tonight. Please stay safe,
by the way, But uh, yeah, no, that's what I'm
going to be drinking, and I think we all have
made some great choices. Who knows.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, we'll see how I feel tomorrow when I'm like, oh, gus,
I mean porge choices. But that's showing well all you're
going to do.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Hey, so you all heard this last time, but I'm
gonna say it again this time. The series involves many
non binary and transgender people, and we are not going
to avoid the topics as they are important to the
philosophy of the cult. All subjects are going to be
introduced with their chosen name and legal name for the
sake of legal research. We are going to do our

(07:59):
best to use appropriate pronouns, but know that if any
mistakes are made, it speaks to the vast number of
players in this case and the complicated nature of their beliefs,
and it's in no way, you know us, It's in
no way intended to disrespect their gender identity. We are
we are very proud of the respectful and inclusive chat

(08:20):
community we have here. Our regulars know the drill, But
to anybody who's popping in, please know that we don't
tolerate hate speech, and honestly, statistically speaking, trans people are
four times more likely than cisgendered people to be the
victims of crime. We are not here to fan that fire.
We are here to discuss how this group of bright

(08:43):
young people ended up involved in multiple deaths. So much
uh and and and uh. Just saying thanks to Amos
for being a member for three months.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Happy member, Anna versay Amy.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
So yeah, let's see so just just like yeah, so
just like with the last episode, I say weave. Everybody
else has made some very helpful graphics to go along
with Yes, have made some wonderful graphics to go along

(09:39):
with the story. So if you're listening to this as
a podcast, I cannot suggest enough that you watched this
on our True Criminal one time YouTube channels. Follow along
and believe me, you're going to want something to follow
along with. We are going to do a great job
of helping you visualize with verbiage, thank you, producer Terra,
but real visuals help. So thank you.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Hi, Hi, remember anniversary for you you loved to say
for Ivamas.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Glad you're here all right. So in our last episode,
we covered the recent Vermont Border patrol shootout in January
this year that left Ophelia Felix Baucalt and border agent
David Chris Mayland dead and Milo Thereesi Youngblut incarcerated on
federal gun charges. It was this incident that unearthed a

(10:35):
series of previous violent murders across the country that have
been associated with members of a so called cult led
by a zizz jack Lesoda didn't think you needed the visuals?
How about.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
So true, so true.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
So if you haven't listened to the last episode, please
pause us right now and go watch that video first
in the series, so it's easy to catch up. You
can find it under lives on our channel or on
the curated playlist about the Sizzians, and then you can
come back to this episode once you're got up, because
this is a story where you're going to want to

(11:13):
hear all the details because there are a lot of details, all.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Of them, and the one is they're just all so fascinating.
What a world the story the truth has stranger than fiction,
that's for sure. So now, in the last episode, we
talked about where things are now in twenty twenty five,
but tonight we want to take you all back in

(11:39):
time to two thousand and sixteen, which is the beginning
of this long and convoluted story that we have to
tell you.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
How did twenty sixteen become a decade ago? I mean,
Justin Bieber and Drake were top of the that didn't
age well.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
A pre COVID day.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
They were there, ye, crazy talking them pre COVID days.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
No.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
When I realized it was like almost ten years, I
was like, oh my goodness, I don't like that at all,
Like anyway.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
When people were undercover, crazy and not unmasked crazy hahah
see what I are about.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
I like that. So I promised you all last week
that we would get more into Ciz and who she is,
and we are here to deliver tonight, you guys. Okay,
So you see, Ziz kept a blog for a few
years called Sincereously, Yes, Sincereously, and even though she took

(12:43):
it down, just like many things on the internet, it
did not go away. So someone had backed up her
blog and that is going to help us with learning
about the early years of this group. So for the
next two episodes, we'll be reading excerpts from one specific

(13:03):
post of hers, called the Rationalist Fleet to help tell
the chapters of the story. I mean, what better way
than in her own words? All I can say is
brace yourself, you guys, because it is. Mmm, I'm so

(13:24):
excited about this.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
I'm so exciting, and honestly will the title of her
blog since seriously, I think it's actually kind of clever.
It's more dense than a toddler's diaper at the end
of the night. So just this is why I have
five yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah. So before we get into that, though, why don't
we start with some of Zizz's background and early life
capin What you Got for Us?

Speaker 1 (13:55):
So this was born with the name jack almadeas Less
on January twenty third, nineteen ninety one, to Dan and Kate.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Lesoda Daas'mdayas, I'm Midayis. Ama Dais described as fair of hair,
which he was rather vain about, nothing special overall, gave
no signs of his genius, and I say, checks out.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
I just love Ama Dais. And then last week we
had Maximilian Bentley Snyder like, ugh, ugh amazing.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
These parents amazing. They knew they were destined for something.
This was assigned male at birth, but later in her
life began identifying as female. She grew up in Fairbanks,
Alaska with her two sisters, Naomi and Rachel. Her parents

(14:54):
were both professionals, with her dad working as an AI
researcher for the University of Alaska Fairbanks. Not much as
known about her early years, but we do know that
she seemed to excel academically. She interned with NASA and
graduated magnacoom laude from the University of Alaska, Fairbanks with

(15:15):
a degree in computer engineering. In twenty thirteen. She attended
the University of Illinois or Bana Champaign to pursue a
master's degree in electrical and computer engineering, but ended up
dropping out.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
You know, just like with the group we talked about
last week again at highly.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Educated, educated and like from a legacy of computer engineering.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, it's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
But go ahead, I'll say it Silverspoon. Now, when she
started going by the namesiz or why she choose that name,
we don't know what did I do?

Speaker 3 (16:00):
So I'm gonna laugh a lot tonight. Don't assume I'm
laughing at you. It's just no coming.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, very true. Okay, So we don't really know why
she chose the name, but it's widely believed that it
came from an online novel called Worm by John C. McCrae.
Because when I think nicknames, I think worm. We're not
gonna get into the overall story, but it's basically a

(16:33):
story of a nerdy girl who gets superpowers and evolves
into a badass trying to save the world. And while
that certainly sounds like a character Ziz could relate to,
uh wait, I have I have something coming in. Uh no, wait,
that turns out that's not the right character. Let me

(16:55):
just check my notes on the back of this beer
can here. Uh Zizz actually took her name from one
of the end Bringers who wants to destroy the world,
because of course she does according to the Worm did
I deliver it appropriately? According to the Worm fandom, wikih

(17:17):
Ziz is one of the aliases of this of the
seymourg and is one of the three original end Bringers
alongside Behemoth and Leviathan. So clearly a villain. So before
we get into a direct yeah, yeah, before we get
into a direct quote, it seems like she's a wanna

(17:37):
be cause player of a wanna be villain created by
I Wanna be stan Lee, So unpack that for a
bit here going for Worm and all we got were
butt worms. So here's a short glimpse the character's personality.
It was just calling for it uh so, here's a
short glimpse at the character's personality, the Seamorg. Seamoorg's thought

(18:02):
patterns are clinical and not human, being very goal oriented
in future focused. She is a cunning planner who, after
finding a desired future outcome, will methodically work backwards to
decipher the critical events needed to make this outcome possible.
She then takes actions in an attempt to causally cause

(18:24):
causally cause these events to occur, such as taking intervening
actions to ideally stop other events from happening that would
causally prevent her desired outcome. Show don't tell, Show don't tell.
I uh, I can't.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
I'm embarrassed to even do this right now, but I'm
going to. But sea Moorg feed me seamg'd.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
May see more.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
I mean, honestly, truly, that's Amy's are the same.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
But that's what I thought.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Oh man, So you know what fascinates me about Ziz
You guys. I'm gonna be so freaking snarky tonight. I
hope you guys are prepared. We all are going to
be right.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
I love how it's It kind of looks like from
beetle Cheese. Anyway, it does. So what fascinates me about Zizz,
Miss I'm going to save the world from evil. Instead
of picking the hero to be inspired by, She's like, no,
I would like to be the naked evil lady, please
and thank you, and I don't. I don't think we

(19:47):
get into it this episode, but during this time period
that we're about to talk about this twenty sixteen era,
Ziz refers to it as her turned to the dark side.
And so some of you are probably like, like in
Star Wars, and the answer is yes, yes, it's it's

(20:09):
exactly like in Star Wars because you see, SiZ also
states that her religion is sith like a little fucking edgeword.
And now that explains my my Darth Vader wine Glass
for it tonight. See, I told you I tie it
all into and together there. But it's just like, really,

(20:33):
all the names you're gonna go with that one? Okay?
That says a lot about you anyway. So moving on,
in her early twenties, Ziz began donating and participating in
rationalist workshops presented by the organization's Hold on Just a Seconds,
A little Lot to your story. Lisa Wilmont, one of

(20:56):
our lovely viewers has stopped into the chat and she's
kind of a big deal. We haven't seen her in
so long, and she just said, OMG, hello poppets, who
are these three goldeous hosts? I see Hi, Lisa, I
love you.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
That was for you.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Anyway, let me start that over again, because I got
sidetracked by awesomeness. So in her early thirties, Ziz began
donating and participating in rationalist workshops presented by the organization's
MURRAY which stands for Machine Intelligence Research Institute and see FAR,

(21:42):
which is the Center for Applied Rationality. You don't need
to memorize those yet. We are going to talk about
them a lot. Not tonight, but in the next episode
or in the next two episodes. Oh my goodness. Anyway,
we'll go deep into that. It's not super duper important
for tonight, but zius ties to MURRAY and c FARE

(22:04):
are crucial here. Okay, So both these organizations focus on
AI safety, long term thinking, and rational decision making. They
attract people who see the world in terms of existential risk,
which may have reinforced Zu's belief beliefs that AI AI

(22:29):
ethics was one of the most important moral issues in history. Okay,
like this is our big deal over here, So this
is first what's that?

Speaker 2 (22:45):
All I could think of was it's her. Oh, mister
Holland's opus, that's what.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yes, So this is first CEFAR residency workshop in twenty
fourteen was a very pivotal moment for her. So the
p of this workshop and by the way, again not
seeing they're a cult, but just saying, I gotta like
workshops you can pay on to learn how to be
a better person. Anyway, the purpose of this workshop was

(23:11):
to teach critical thinking skills and techniques to enhance an
understand human decision making, key aspects of the rationalist movement.
We are about to learn tonight that ziz took nothing
away from this workshop. Nothing no, no good decision makings

(23:32):
going on here. But anyway, Zizs writes in her blog,
I went to a CFUR workshop. Anna, the president of
CIFAR said, I seemed like I could be strategically important
and busted me out of the psychological ponnage by my
abusive thesis advisor. That's a voice I'm going with tonight,

(23:55):
you guys, so prepare yourselves.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
And that's that's probably the one thing she did take
from this workshop.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Oh, I I love I love that said, I seemed
like I could be strategically important. We don't know yet.
You're still kind of on this make believe bubble, on
this make believe concept, but you might be who knows.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
And you know, it's always good when you go to
a workshop and then they tell you you're special. It's oh,
it's a good sign you're getting involved in something great.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
I mean, I can get that a green Day concert
and enjoy myself. So whatever, even if they don't mean
it at first glance, this moment kind of seems like
a positive turning point, escaping an abusive academic relationship and
joining a high intelligence community that value is truth seeking.
But it seems that for Is, attending this workshop wasn't

(25:03):
just about gaining new skills. Say it ain't, so it
was the beginning of a shift in ideological identity. Seefar's
methods likely reinforced her natural tendency towards analytical thinking, which
also provided a structured philosophical framework that emphasized the importance

(25:24):
of being strategically important in shaping the future. So this
kind of aligns with a common rationalist mindset, which is
understanding and controlling biases equals power. Thinking correctly equals responsibility

(25:46):
to act, and then people who don't think this way
equal less capable of seeing the truth. Now, for someone
who was already inclined toward moral absolutism, this kind of
framework easily could be taken to an extreme. And honestly,

(26:07):
that last specifically, that last point just reminds me of
anything cult where they're like, we're separating you from everybody.
If they don't understand, well, then lovel they just can't
see the truth exactly, can't fight for this. Yeah, so
it immediately turns you against those folks.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, it gives you some sort of self importance and
self righteous it's a recipe for only good things, of course,
of course. So what's funny is this specifically credits Anna Salomon,
the president of cfr CFAR and, as we'll learn later

(26:45):
on one of Zizz's many arch nemesis. Okay, if you
think one person have one arch nemesis is a lot,
not Ziz, lots of arch nemesis got anyway, nemesis like
what disease anyway, So she specifically credits Anna with helping

(27:12):
her break free from the psychological control of an abusive
thesis advisor. So this is significant for several reasons. I think.
So it shows that Zizz saw herself as a victim
her favorite of a controlling, oppressive figure, which would later

(27:33):
shape how she viewed all authority figures in my opinion.
It also shows that the c FAR community provided a
sense of rescue and empowerment, making it more likely that
she would place deep trust in its teachings and leadership.
And I mean, so she's special. So of course there's

(27:55):
also the idea that she had been pawned, which if
you guys don't know what that means, that means that
you're you've been controlled or manipulated by someone. But so
she has this idea that she had been pawned that
may have strengthened her belief that she was uniquely capable
of recognizing and resisting manipulations because, of course, unlike others

(28:21):
who remained pawned by social forces, the rationalist movements and
AI ethics was a battle between forces of control and deception.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
So I think, yeah, kind of like the puzzle piece
that she was looking for. So okay, question point of
point of point of clarification. Are we saying ponnd or
are we saying poned because I thought it was pooned?
Am I wrong? Which one is? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
I thought it was poned.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Is it poon I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
I've never said it before.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
I always thought it was pawned.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Bondest pens.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
I'll get the answer.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Oh, he's not watching.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
We've got a lot of folks here while we'll wait, wait, wait,
we're about to unmute ourselves.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Elbow feet says it's pooned.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
P w n D.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
There's no a therefore this way.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Okay, So today we learned that the word is poned,
and that's going to take away a lot of my
jokes because I, okay, I'm going to make an argument.
Pause this story. Okay, pond makes sense because it's the
least important like piece in a chess game.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
But like you know, that implies that that pound came
from the English language, and it really, I mean it didn't.
It came from gaming.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
Well, I'm the worst millennial ever. I've used the internet before.
You guys, it's fine, it's fine anyway. So she got pound.
I guess this is why you include vowels and words.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
This is why well, I think it is like owned.
Oh but okay, well, okay, a kind of gamer. We
saw that.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Mystery anyway, So and let's get back to this story.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Nothing.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait sorry.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
The equivalent of a gamer saying pound is like me
walking into a mall and a TapouT shirt. Okay, now
you can go.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Oh, that's embarrassing for you.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
I've never done it. I'm just saying that just feels
like it's the equivalent.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Okay, Well we've settled that debate. Everybody, well can hear
and learned something shows over. We're done anyway. So Anna's
comment that Ziz seems strategically important, I think may have
also planted the seed for a growing sense of self
importance and destiny. I mean, if a leader, the leader

(31:32):
within cfar this new place that she's obsessed with, an
organization that is filled with high IQ world altering thinkers
saw Ziz as significant, then she wasn't just an ordinary participant,
you know, she was someone with the potential to change
the course of history.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Of course, what's crazy to me is that, like there
needed to be a very specific set of things to
happen to someone at exactly the right time or age
for a cult leader to emerge, as this plant has
on our screen, and yet it happens so damn often,

(32:14):
so much. I assume it's just because people can find
meaning at the right time when they want to, and
that's what leads people to do that.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
I don't know, I you know, So I think all
of this could have really reinforced some ideas that later
would like contribute to her radicalization. So we have, like
the first point, she is there's a strong personal mission,

(32:48):
all right, So if she was strategically important, then her
role in AI safety and ethics was corrocial, all right,
And then we have a justification for extreme actions. So
if the world was truly at risk and she was
one of the few who saw the problem, clearly the
moral compromises were unacceptable because she's save in the freaking world. Okay,

(33:11):
you do what you gotta do at that point, right, right,
And it gives her, it gives her a disconnect from
ordinary people, right. So if she was chosen for something
bigger than those who didn't agree or understand her were
simply not thinking on her level. So very similar to

(33:32):
the bullet points we just saw earlier, right where.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
She does seem like somebody who'd be like, get on
my level while making like the sucket sign. It seems
like that's what would happen. That seems like Ziz would
be that person.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
So, you know, I just I think that this moment
at CFR or c FAR, I don't know how they
pronounced it. I don't know how anything is pronounced tonight.
So I'm Terry for tonight. If you're watching Terry, I'm
channeling you. I hope I'm doing abroad. So anyway, I
think this set Zi is on a path towards seeing

(34:07):
herself as uniquely rational, uniquely ethical, and strategically necessary figure
because somebody said so. And over time, as we will see,
she is faced with rejection and alienation by her own accord,
my own opinion. But whatever she kind of did to

(34:27):
herself and this concept of being special but unappreciated could
have involved into the belief that she was one of
the truly or one of the only truly rational, truly
ethical people left, a belief that probably later contributed to

(34:48):
her cult like leaders leadership style, because that's pretty on brand.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, I mean I think that then appreciation was probably
that final piece in relation to her personality, ideological and person, identity,
and a few other things, and that just kind of
click and released into the like a like a dove
in heat, don't I don't know what that is, but
there you go.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
She's specially you, guys, and she will not be owned.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Well, she's special because a woman or an organization she
paid thousands of dollars to attend a workshop at said
she was special. As a reminder.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Good Pine.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
But in twenty sixteen, Ziz decided to move to San Francisco,
both for a job and to be part of the
rationalist movement. On her blog, she writes, I came to
the Bay Area because all the smartest people I knew
said that there was a global emergency and the neglect
of ethics and even care for the future by AI researchers.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Because you can't say that you moved there to live
life frame by frame like they did in Full House.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
Whatever happened to predictability, she would.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Be about predictability, now that I think about it.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
She would I I'd go with Charmed, but anyway, for
going San Francisco, classic television. Anyway, this was ready to
save the world, much like Charms. But once she arrived
in San Francisco, she ran into the reality of the
tech world, which operated in ways she found deeply dishonest
and exploitative. She expected to find a place where rational,

(36:34):
truth seeking individuals work together towards the greater good, but
instead she encountered startups that prioritize speed, profit and social
conformity over ethical principles.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
So like businesses, Yeah, turns out it's not easy to
save in the world.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Oh, my goodness, we look at that.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Marvel makes it so easy.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Should Yeah, shouldn't shouldn't my shouldn't the plot line?

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Second?

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Just about here?

Speaker 3 (37:02):
No?

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Okay, great. So in a short period of time, she
had several jobs, and I want to read in her
own words what happened with each of them and see
if you can identify any patterns at all.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Now. The first startup after other dishonesty, fired me after
four days. I moved to the bay for them because
I said I couldn't implement a payment system for their
game in two days, and because I walked out of
the office after eight hours of work. Then I found

(37:42):
another job at another dishonest startup. I can't do that,
which KEPTU demanding that I worked unpaid overtime talking about
other employees just always put forty hours on their time
sheet no matter what. And this exemplary employee over here
work twelve hours a day and he really went the

(38:03):
extra mile to get sorry the job done. Real vibes
that I'm getting right now, and they need me to
really go the extra mile and get the job done.
When I refused to work more than forty hours a week,
they did not renew my three month contract to work there.

(38:23):
Then offered by the job contracts designed to increase my
pay per hour, and negotiating these, my manager lied that
he had a cons had a constraint in how much
to spend from HR. I asked HR. They said he
had no such constraint. I confronted him about this and
made a counter offer based on my estimate about how

(38:45):
much he'd gained from the software being done. He said
he was no longer interested in contracting me. I used
my technically still a grad student status to find a
fifteen or twenty dollars an hour undergraduate summer project type
job fuck uses in exactly the technology I knew best.

(39:06):
I negotiated with them, trying to convert it into a
contract for the entire work based on reasoning people don't
hire large numbers of undergraduate programmers to do real projecchecks.
I expect to be paid more, but I'm more efficient
in product per hour. This grad student and professor running

(39:27):
the project agreed and were happy to with a sample
of my work. It seemed I'd basically be making an
average of three hundred dollars an hour at that rate,
for a total of seven thousand dollars I think by
the time that project was done, which I hoped would
be the start of my career as a freelancer. The

(39:47):
professor described how to set it up so I'd be paid,
and it required falsifying forums with the university to indicate
I was working full time. I turned down the gig.
The student paid me for what I've done so far
out of her own pockets, seemingly presuming the professor wouldn't
stepping back for a second, so it was okay to

(40:08):
cheat her out of money, but or it wasn't okay
to do that, but it was okay to allow the
student to pay her despite knowing the student didn't have
any money either. Rationality seems to work for the individual person,
unless for the the world. It purports to save dollars.

(40:29):
Project sounds pretty good.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Sounds pretty good, and i'd false why document for that?

Speaker 2 (40:37):
But yes, lady king Gray said she found capitalism.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Thank you. The channel is yelling at me that I
was muted. I'm glad somebody's looking out for me. No,
I I just was quickly like you got ended up
being three hundred dollars an hour when you are looking
for a fifteen to twenty an hour job. Like what
that's just I don't okay.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
The world is against her, clearly.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, the world is a vampire, are you ever? Like
you just grab like a handful of dirt and you
just want to shove it in somebody's mouth and just
make them chew it. Like you all are gonna feel
like that this entire time.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Like, don't get me wrong, Like there's a lot of
things that I do agree with her about here, right,
Like it's not okay for jobs to take advantage of
your time and your money when they're not paying, Like
I totally agree with her about that. And you know,
if she decided to not have that job because that's
her reasons, okay, But also like that is kind of

(41:50):
jobs though, you know, like that's part of the railroad babe. Okay, Like,
I don't know what job she had in mind, but
I don't even know where that exists at.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
So I highly doubt that they had they changed a
contract or had some I highly doubt the fact that
she refused to work forty more hours is or forty
hours or over that is the reason why they changed
her situation. Her work situation there, I have a feeling
was a lot more than that.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
Oh me too. I mean the first one she talks about,
how like, what did she say? Oh, it was because
she couldn't implement a payment system and because I walked
out of the office after eight hours of work. My
guess when everybody's in the middle of a project and
she just fucked off, Like that's actually probably Like but okay, girls,

(42:44):
you sound off. I mean again, I agree with her
A lot of it in but okay.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
It's not okay, But it is most like a lot
of entry level jobs or a lot you know, a
lot of manufacturing, I guess engineering. Any time you're making something,
there is a push to get that thing done.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Woa.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
So it's not some of us have been in the
working world for fifteen years and we're still looking for
that amount. So usually you work.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Your way up to a work life balance. I heard once, So.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Let's talk about this pattern. Did you guys in chat
notice a pattern going on here? Because we did.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
There is a pattern over these three jobs. First of all,
Ziz refused to bend to workplace norms, whether unrealistic deadlines
on bid overtime, or lying on documents. Each time she
challenged authority and was penalized for it. And instead of

(43:47):
adjusting her approach, she doubled down on her convictions, Seeing
interjection as further proof that the world was corrupt.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
She called every single one dishonest, every single want dishonest, dishonest,
and like, okay.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
But I hope she had a big old rubber stamp
and like she just she's just like it's gonna make
me feel better, and then she just pops it right
on the exterior wall. So right. Her song is, we've
we've talked about this before, but like many people face

(44:24):
very similar workplace pressures every day, but usually they either
strategically navigate the system or they push back in ways
that don't lead to outright rejection. And I feel like
I was given this part on purpose. Yes, how this, however,
seems incapable of playing along even slightly. Instead of finding

(44:44):
a balance between her principles and workplace expectations, she treats
every conflict as if it is an existential battle between
truth and deception.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
How exhausting.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
That's exactly the word I was going to use.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
Oh, sorry, didn't mean it takes no.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
No, it's that that's going to be a word I'm
going to think as long as we're reading quotes, So yeah,
what's coming.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
It's exacting, guys.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
But so this is way back in twenty sixteen. This
is all happening, and we're seeing this is mindset shifting
in a way that mirrors the early stages of cult leadership.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Red flags everywhere, you, guys.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
So we're seeing rigid morality. She sees honesty and ethics
as absolute with no room for compromise. We're seeing us
versus them thinking where the world is corrupt, only a
few good people can see the truth. She's special, She's

(45:51):
very special. She paid to find out.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
We're seeing alienation like everybody else.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
She's a She keeps losing jobs, burning bridges, and making
it easier to see yourself as the lone fighter for truth.
And also charismatic rationalization. She doesn't just complain, she constructs
detailed intellectual justifications for why she's right and others are wrong.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
And all of the worst excuses read excuses. Charismatic rationalization
goes like this, and I quote, so, why can't you
go to the concert because my father figure determined I
hadn't excised enough diod for my room, so you didn't
clean it? Yeah, pretty much? Oh god, this is it?

(46:47):
Oh guys, Oh, it's.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Going to get better. It's kinda gets so much better.
That's about the only part those job things about the
only part of the entire thing she writt And then
I was like, yeah, okay, point, that's it, you guys.
So let's see. So not only was this's career going
to shit, her home life wasn't going great either. Now

(47:13):
the story we're about to tell. The only source I
have for this story is us blog. And many cult
leaders are known to craft these grand narratives about themselves.
Oh boy, oh boy, do they you know, using personal
suffering as a foundational myth to attract followers. Oh the suffering?

(47:40):
So how true all this really is what we're about
to tell you? I don't know, because there are some
and everybody clapped moments in here that I don't think
anybody clapped on. Uh, so we don't really know at all.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
It's kind of herculeselese.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Yeah, the answer back right. But so we're gonna see
that her mindset aligns with the traits of a developing
cult leader, where personal conflicts become moral battles, opposition becomes
justification for retaliation, and those who violate their sense of

(48:26):
justice are cast as irredeemable.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
I told you this earlier, but I'm going to do
it now because I know you love being praised while live.
This is my favorite sentence of the last few years
of scripts. Truly. I wanted on a poster with either
a penguin or a giraffe hanging in a severance office
for my enee Ah.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Well, thanks. That really encapulates like Ziz as a whole,
Like that's literally her whole. Big I just told you
the whole story. Okay, but thank you. That's very kind
of you to say. Okay, so let's get into this story.
Are you guys ready for this, because I don't I

(49:13):
don't know if you guys are. I just want to
say I read all this stuff a long time ago,
and I was like, am I the only one that
thinks this? This is fucking nuts? And then it took
other people reading it, No, it was, and I.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Was just like, is.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Anybody else reading what I'm reading? And then like I
gave it to other people to read and they came
back with like the same thing that I was kind
of taken away from this, and I was like, oh, okay, Gus, wow,
you guys all right, so prepare yourself. It's story time, everybody.

(49:52):
So my roommate, landlord subletting to me, fell on hard
financial times and started getting pushy about rent. Although I
was following the terms of our contract and always paying
on time, he wanted to change the contract to get
him more money sooner. I had previously accepted something like

(50:14):
this in exchange for some other concession. Now he wanted
to do it again. I refused. He didn't take no
for an answer and got angry at me for stonewalling
him when I'd silently walked past him on the way
into my room. When he demanded this, okay, guys, So

(50:35):
everything we're about to hear, Okay, everything we're about to
hear stems from the roommate landlord asking for an advanced
on the rent. Keep that in mind for this whole story.
Dude just wants some money early, must going through hard
financial times whatever. And it doesn't come across to me

(50:58):
as this is like some shakedown, right. We've all had
shitty roommates who you'd have to pick up the like,
we've all been there, okay, but this doesn't quite seem
like that situation that she's trying to make a scene.
It doesn't seem like it's me but anyway, and no
you knows, of course, is not obligated to give him

(51:21):
additional rent, like it doesn't see that in the contract.
And that's I agree, But I think it's interesting that
apparently she had done it before, but that's when it
also benefited her. She doesn't give a reason why she
can't do it or if she doesn't want to. I mean, granted,

(51:42):
she doesn't have a job and it's broke, bitch, but
it's kind of weird. It's interesting how vague she is
about these details. When you'll see that she has no
problem airing all of the dirty laundry about this guy,
but doesn't want to, let you know.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Listen, to do that. Someone just submitted their application for
most Oppressed ten and of the years, You're right, this
is not obplicated to do it. You're you're right. However,
the reaction of silently stonewallers stonewalling him like gliding past him,
like a Victorian widow mourning the loss of basic human interaction.

(52:22):
The most like mature way to handle conflict is, as
we know, handling financial decisions like there are hunted houses
an obstacle course, so like, yes.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
It doesn't, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Why well, I mean, to be fair, sometimes your financial
situation is like a jump scare.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Uh well, for the landlord, I guess it was a
jump scare. But I just I think it's just so
weird that she's just like.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
It's so interesting too that like no one has. I
feel like for most people like who have like serial
killers and stuff like who may have like rented a
house from them or something like that, they're like, yeah,
he rented here, they rented here. Nobody has been like
yeah she was here.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Nobody, nobody, nobody wants to be connected to it.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
I don't care if I end up getting a spot
on like the California like tor of serial Killers, I
don't care. I don't want it. It's not worth it.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
That is very true. Okay, so let's continue on with
her riding, shall we towards this time? The bathroom, which
I don't know how to lock and he kept walking
in on me, was more often than not full of
waste on the floor from his neglected dogs. Arriving home

(53:54):
on the way to lock myself in my bedroom, I
once walked past him in the living room masturbating. I
don't know why there, since he had his own room.
I guess he wanted to use his big screen TV.
You guys, you guys, all right. So I like how

(54:17):
immediately she was a picture.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Oh my gosh, that picture is so funny that he
got blurt out bars pretty.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Big yeahs orlanda bloom too.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
So I like how immediately she was Like if in
any way you feel sorry for this guy or think
that Zizz is being a dramatic asshole, don't think that,
because this guy is morally repugnant all right, walking in
on other people using the bathroom, which literally happens in
my house all the time. That's just what happens when

(55:01):
you live with a bunch of people. Dog feces all
over the bathroom because he's a pos pet owner, which
I get. The animals are not zizsus to take care
of and not her responsibility. Totally get that. But for
someone who is so die hard about animal welfare and

(55:25):
rights to the point that we're flesh eating monster nazis,
you would think this neglect would inspire her to, I
don't know, do something about it to help the animals
out at the very least. Oh and if you thought
this guy wasn't bad enough, look at this pervert spilling

(55:49):
his lineage all over the living room. That line was
from my fellow Severance fans. They'll get it if you know,
you know, I mean, is that the best place to
be doing that? No, Okay it's not. But she said
she had just arrived home, Okay, Like I think this

(56:11):
guy thought he had the house to himself, having a
little gentleman time, and then she just comes out. She
doesn't say it happens all the time. If this guy
was doing this all the time, I feel like she
would let us know that this is some just flipping
it out all over the place. So I think the

(56:33):
only reason she brings any of this up is to
demean him to shame him and humiliate him. And by
the way, she does fully name her off this guy
in the fit, like she wants people to fucking know
about this guy because he asked for an advance in
her rent.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Anyway, I mean, but the bathroom she didn't know? How
is she unfamiliar with doors simply because like she always
has her mind unlocked? Like, did she need a detailed
power point on how to engage a basic locking mechanism
without using your lizard brain before she took action? Yes,

(57:17):
of course not. Despite not being able to operate the latch,
she still had the time and ability to locate every
microscopic offence. And and yes, listen, I mean the home
theater experience that stinks. That's shit, but it was really.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Look at it was four d d oh, that's a
gang bang jt.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Okay. I just was like, things in your face is
what I was going with there. But that's fine too.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
That's the same.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Oh, well, we all have learned something new today. I
was just pawned. It was really obvious that she was
logging it into her ever growing book of perceived injustices.
Right between he gave me a dirty look and the
marauders map now I know that this guy sounds like

(58:18):
a disaster of a human and and maybe and probably
he was. But instead of whining about it, and if
this was a movie, I wouldn't know whether to root
for you or tell you to grow a spine, learn
how locks work, and develops some basic conflict resolution skills.
One of the two go goodwill hunting.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Sorry, hold up before we on Sam's comment, I guess
she didn't ask for the handshake on requests. That's a
seventh shoke. If you guys haven't watched Severance, I don't.
We don't get paid by this show, but it's amazing.
Go watch it. It's on Apple TV. And I'm always
a vailing.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
A welcome to pay us as Adams, I am.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Always welcome to talk about it. Always love it. Anyway, Oh, continue,
let's get back to this.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Well, I just something to build on somethings. JT said
her lack of understanding on how doors work. I like,
not only that, but the dogs are only going in
the bathroom. So this kind of is applying to me that, like,
the dogs get how the door works better than she does,
at least where you go. If they can't go outside,

(59:30):
they're going in the right room like that says something.
Get these dogs in your fleet.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
The dogs are like, dude, there's a bathroom right there.
Get out from the like I understand. Wanted to see
things on a you know, a forty inch TV, which
you consider a home theater. However, I mean at least
it was hard wood.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
I love it. Oh my gosh, that's what she said.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
So to continue reading from the book of this. Yes,
he had an unpaid nanny for housing to take care
of his thun news stuffs. She lived on the couch.
Toward the end, she started a conversation with me. Asked
about my bike, said she had ridden one as a child,
but now suspects she couldn't. I let her borrow it

(01:00:21):
to demonstrate the riding a bike was like riding a bike.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Oh it was.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
He got very upset over this, saying he saw me
playing foot see with his girlfriend. When I showed her
this text, she denied being in any romantic relationship with him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Oh my goodness. All right, yes, so hit in the
south now I keep hitting my desk. I'm so sorry
if that's loud for you, guys. I am just very passionate,
so I'm sorry if I don't know until I watch
it back the next day, have loud dusk and keepboard on.
And then I was like, oh, that's fe anyway. Okay, So,

(01:01:01):
first of all, the unpaid nanny for housing sounds a lot.
Sounds to me like she was in fact being paid
in the form of room and bored. Like you're just
making this guy seem like he's just taking advantage of
this person. But if they're a nanny for how oh sure,

(01:01:26):
says okay, girl, you got it. Okay. Oh and and
this guy has a son. It's interesting you're bringing up
the kidnalysis. So Ziz calls the dogs neglected, but nothing
about the feces covered bathroom being horrible for a child
to live in. Nothing about that. One also has to wonder,

(01:01:49):
how now we know three grown ass adults lived in
this house and nobody's taking out the dogs, none of them. No, No,
nobody's taken out the animals in this situation. It just
seems a little fantastical to me. And she also says

(01:02:13):
that the nanny is sleeping on the couch. Remember she's
nanny for housing, so she had a bedroom before I'm
gonna go with the bedroom was with the roommate landlord,
and clearly there was something going on there their business,
nobody else's, and I don't think that situation's going well anymore, right,

(01:02:37):
So I feel like thisiz is taking advantage of whatever
is going on there to like manipulate and stirring up
shit to retaliate this guy for again asking for if
he could, if she could pay rent in advance.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
In in the words of Owen Wilson, wow, Like this
is like a Hall of Fame disaster. I mean, like,
was the women scrubbing the chim chimminy chimchimminey and sewing
socks by candlelight? If your child care arrangement sounds like

(01:03:21):
a Dickens novel, you might be the villain. I I
don't know, I don't know. I mean here, this is,
this is the thing. Pick one of these routes, and
it's much more believable to me. Far be it from
me saying it wasn't shitty, but in your insert side
eye emoji here, Like, I feel like the fact that

(01:03:44):
this was mediated communication and zizz at the moment really,
I mean, was probably pretty charismatic with people, but not
great without something right in front of her. Plus I
think it just was she was going way too. What
I'm saying is pick a lane, stay in it, and
it's more believable. Don't try to take the entire La freeway.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, and her like sharing the text.
You only do that when you're trying to start up
shit girl, Okay, we know this game. We've been there.
I've been there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Also, like when this was written, I knew I felt
like a breeze because at the time when it was
written that like riding a bike, it was you know,
she was patting herself. Just just it's so witty.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
I'm so ready, I'm so witty. Look at how such
a nice person I am doing this simple, mundane thing.
I am not a bad person. I thought this person to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Ride a bike.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
I have my turn book A girl, girl.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
Okay, anyway, let's go back.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Not not surprisingly, things are going to start to escalate here,
so to quote again escalate escalating television. So the quotes says,
he tried to block my exit from the house once,
demanding that I pay him more rent upfront, said if

(01:05:22):
I wanted to leave to refund my deposit, he said sure,
and later said he wanted me to leave earlier because
he's found a tenant who demanded a specific start date.
I said, refund my deposit, which the contract said was
convertible to the last month's rent if not repaid first,
then I'd.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
Go, yeah, why did she put rent in quotation marks?
By the way she put those quotation marks, everybody we
transcribed this verbatim, uh, now it's rent.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Why does she Why does she any of this? Why
does she change tens?

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Does she stop?

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Why does why? Like sometimes I when we're reading this,
I think it is specifically to keep people like us
on our toes when we read it out loud.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
Yes, I'm so glad as as other people are reading
this after me, because I was like, I Christ, am
I what is happening here?

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Like, as as I was reading this and some of
it today, I was just in another room, still adjoined,
and it was little Bruce Crime, bigger little Bruce Crime's
birthday day, day day, and I was like, oh oh,
and he was like, Dad, are you okay, don't be angry,

(01:06:49):
it's my birthday. And I'm dude, sit down, let me
read you a story. But like it's just like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
This is very German fairy tale story by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Yeah, well, you know, we talk about the really really
you know, extensive and strong wave, very very German fairy till. Okay,
so coming home from arc uh maybe they were the way. Yeah,

(01:07:30):
I saw outside he had destroyed one of my possessions.
I called the cops on him. They did nothing and
were upset at me disturbing him.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
Notice she doesn't say what was destroyed. Okay, I mean
it pissed her off enough to call the cops apparently,
but she's not going to tell the whole world what it is.
She's gonna tell the whole world about everything else, but
not not this part. I think that's interesting, and I'm
just saying it's weird for someone who used all of

(01:08:04):
the words in this ball blog post, all of them,
all the words you can think of she used, but
she's not gonna tell us what was this read.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
I just.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
I have my suspicions, is all I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:08:15):
It's like he was masturbating a wicked in his living
room and then he destroyed one of my possessions, which possession.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
It's enough for me to call the cops, but you
can't know about it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Jeez my god. Okay, Oh so anyway, he. He then
blocked my entrance and said I'd really crossed the line
by calling the cops and I had to leave immediately.
I tried to walk around him.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
Yeah, sorry, real quick. I see in chat here it's
bacon Bit's birthday today. I'm sorry to cause this. Sorry,
but bacon Bit is one of our lovely viewers. I
don't know if she's watching, but happy birthday to you
a bacon Bit. I think she's an adult now, but
I think it's like a big birthday, is what I mean. Like,

(01:09:12):
I think it's our big ones. So happy birthday, bacon
Bit and Shanka, if you're watching, we miss.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
You, so happy birthday.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Happy birthday. The lady in Gray's aunt, who's ninety four.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Oh aunt, the Lady and Gray's aunt. Yeah, ninety four.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
She's lived through some shit and continues to live through
some shit.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
That's amazing anyway, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
All right, so sorry, Soziz says. I tried to walk
around him, he got in front of me, tried to
walk around again. Eventually we bumped into each other. He
called the cops on me for assault. With the cops there,
I was able to get inside my room and locked
myself in He started pounding on my door, promising to

(01:09:56):
give me how until I left. He kept pounding, and
he could have been in the living room in front
of his big screen TV. The breaker box was in
my room. I turned some breakers off. He got madder
and started pounding louder me too. If all of a

(01:10:17):
sudden my porn was gone. He would not negotiate to
cease his assault. It was well past midnight. He had
been pounding for about two hours. Maybe he probably needs
to see a doctor. I put in earplugs and lay
down in my bed. Just as I was falling asleep
anyway from sheer exhaustion.

Speaker 5 (01:10:40):
He kicked my dow down, knocking at table with some
of my stuff on it, picked up my chair and
threw it at me as I was sitting up.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
It only hits my raised arm, bruising it. I called
the cops with them on the phone. He stopped his
attack after tuning on the breakers.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
By the way, if you're just listening to us, you
should know that we are physically re enacting the story
for you. Guys. Just no, so I'm gonna tell you
all right now, all right, you come into my house.
You turned my breakers off. I am busting down mother
fan door. Okay, got new as for you. I don't

(01:11:29):
care how it makes you look, but I am turning
off those breakers, and especially especially if my kid is
at home and you turn off those breakers, I am
busting down your mofo door. Okay. And but at the
point that she's turning off these breakers, it is petty
betty as shit, Okay, like petty betty as shit that

(01:11:56):
you're turning these breakers off. And then you're gonna act
off fucking shop at you let somebody busts down your
door to turn on the electricity to go take a
ship in the bathroom because you spoil all the food
in the fridge like.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
What quarter coin operated vibrating recliner end of the big
screen TV like, in my.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Opinion, she escalated this situation. She took this issue. She
was like, we're a ten, I'm going to twenty by
turning off the prob happened, no if I and then
I finally went to sleep because of sheer exhaustion.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
Okay, okay, I mean she escalated it when she called
the cops the first time, but also breaker Box, I
hardly know her.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
Let's see how this goes.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Oh yes, let's see how this turns out. Because she
talk to me, was angry for wasting the cops times.
I like it. How the cop was was was angry.
I imagine the cops saying, you're wasting the cops times.
Since I couldn't prove any of this, if he assaulted me,

(01:13:22):
then where was a visible injury? He angrily asked. If
if I had turned off the breaker, that was domestic
mischief and I could face charges for that. I remained silent.
He demanded to know if I was remaining silent, because
if I was exercising my right to remain silent, then
that was an admission that speaking would incriminate me, and

(01:13:45):
that meant I was guilty. It's not how it works.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
That is not how an officer would say that at all.
By the way, you're guilty, and how granted they would
use some probably some texts, be like, oh, you're not
saying anything, so you must be sure. I get am.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
I've got I've got a five day workshop that will
make you feel so good about yourself, and it will
teach you about true crime and what cops say and
don't say. And I also have an igloo to sell you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
It just sounds okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
So but uh, she fell silent. He said they weren't
social services. People were dying out there and I was
distracting them. I said sorry in a weak voice. He
gave me some kind of warning not to call them again.
Soon after I saw my roommate. He was acting all chummy, said,

(01:14:48):
nice one with the breaker box. This this is incredible
in all the wrong ways. It's all I okay. I
And he picked up a chair and flung it at
you and only like hit your raised hand. What are
you fucking hulk?

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
It's probably one of those plastic yard chairs, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Fair, Fair, I mean the guy.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
Stopped after you got in the room because he just
went her on the fucking breaker not fight you and
assault you, like, get the fuck out of here her. Oh,
I said sorry in a weak voice. Oh, fuck off
with your bullshit. I'm gonna say.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
No, I don't think the breaker things real. I think
what she did was she went to her room, laid
down and fell asleep. I think that's what happened. I
don't think the breaker thing happened. No. I do think
that person that's like like thinking up a bunch of
like comebacks if somebody ever made fun of her, and
then like somebody makes fun of her and she goes no,

(01:15:57):
or your mom and then thinks of a billion better
ones afterwards, like that's just how she seems.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
Oh no, I very much think she turned off this
breaker box. I think a lot of but she's so patty.
As you'll see from many of the things she lays out,
you'll be like, oh, yeah, that checks out. This sounds
like her, sounds like her. I just again, you guys,
she wants everyone to hate on this guy. Okay, look

(01:16:26):
at him. He's a fucking pervert who lets his dog
shit everywhere, bust in her rooms, and throws things at people.
The cops are on his side. By the way, she
is twenty four, twenty five fucking years old, Okay, and.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
You just turned into like an eighty year old Karen
from Will and Grace. And I don't know how you
did it, but I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
I don't either. I don't either, but I mean, if
I didn't know better, all right, I would seriously think
reading something from like a fifteen to sixteen year old here,
like all these responses are somebody who is incredibly emotionally
immature here, like it's just crazy. She said, Oh, I

(01:17:16):
didn't know. I wassuming that the cops said you were
arrested for a crime. I mean, you could be they
weren't wrong, but anyway, I don't know what that means.
But okay, so what does this do next? I don't know, guys,
let's find out. So cooked, I called my friend Kara

(01:17:36):
and told her what happened. She offered a place to
stay temporarily, giving her room temporarily and a shared Rationalist house.
So we're not saying it's the full house house as
we have on screen, but we're gonna just assume all

(01:17:57):
these rational houses is the full house house because we're
in San francist Okay, Okay, So her friend Kara gives
to the room. She says, took it. I took it,

(01:18:19):
came back the next day, got my stuff, talked to
the nanny who had heard all of this happening from
the couch. So that bitch was in the dark too,
because she turned off the breaker. I'm sure she was
so happy and on your side, says, for that two
and a half hour stunt you pulled by turned the
lights off. Okay, I told her what happened? She said, Michael,

(01:18:42):
the roommate, had also taken money from her on false pretenses. Okay,
she says she had nowhere else to go. I asked
if she had parents, a weird thing. She says she did,
but wasn't on great terms with them. Mentioned was on

(01:19:04):
better terms with her father, but he lived in Ziz
redacted this. Forget the roommate's name. She's not gonna redact,
but she will redact these parents' names for us, so
in case you want to. I asked if he could
really be worse than Michael. Quote you're my girlfriend, whether
you know it or not. End quote. Zamanski I said,

(01:19:27):
if it was a fucking domestic abuse situation, there was
a good chance he'd buy her a plane ticket and
get her the hell out. She did he did. Okay,
pause there for a second over what Ziz has to
fucking say here. Sorry, I don't mean to drop the

(01:19:48):
F word so much, but as I warned you all,
there would be snark. Okay, because this brings out the
snark in me. So talk to the nanny. Explains everything
to her. She was there, she's there to see it all. Apparently, Like,
what do you have to explain. But okay, But the

(01:20:09):
fact that Ziz says, I said, if if it was
a fucking domestic abuse situation, there was a good chance
he'd buyer a plane ticket. To me, this sounds like
Zizz is saying, if you make up that Michael is

(01:20:31):
beating you or hurting you in some way, your daddy
will send you home. So just tell him that, because
take the victim complex and it'll get you somewhere. Because
she never said anything about witnessing anything happening to this
sweet nanny, and now we find ourselves in a domestic

(01:20:54):
abuse situation that this is going to see her From
you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
I feel like Ziz could sneeze and get her victim
complex over everybody, and just everybody all of a sudden
just feels the need, the need for.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
Well And then she ends that paragraph. She ends it
with she did he did, implying that, Look, people listen
to me, they follow my advice and my suggestions when
I'm trying to save them. Look at what I've done.
I mean, the reason I wanted to bring this story
of their roommate is because you really see how very

(01:21:34):
early on she is manipulating and moving people and putting
them against And oh.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Girl, well hold on, because she's not done with the landlord.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
She's definitely not done with the landlord. No, she's got
some vengeance to have, so she continues writing. She introduced
me to the neighbor, who was an enemy of Michael
and had heard him do the same sort of thing
with multiple previous sublet tenants. She told more stories, including

(01:22:11):
of him putting his fingers into his son's throat to
get him to stop crying. The neighbor offered me a
bed to stay in and some marijuana to smoke. I declined, Oh,
it is rude.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
Decline when somebody is offering you wei, it's freaking rude. Yeah,
she really should have taken some to ch out.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
I think she would have. We wouldn't be in this situation.
The thinker down the throat parenting technique, because like when
you want to be a nurturing father figure water bird
your own kid with his zone gag reflex, you know, like,
I don't like, I'm not truly joking about it, because
that's terrible. I don't even know if I can believe
it happened in coming from Ziz. And not only that,

(01:22:58):
but according to Ziz, this guy was carrying more red
flags than a bull fighting championship during a communist parade.
So I don't know anymore. I'm done.

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
Well, listen, the neighbor saw this, thisiz lived with this guy.
The nanny lived with this guy. There's a kid there.
You don't hear Zizz or the nanny saying about any
weird shit they've seen being done. But this neighbor is
this didn't even know that the nanny introduced him to
saw this happening. I have, in fact, stuffed my fingers

(01:23:33):
into my child's throat to get him from choking on something.
I don't know how old this kid is, so maybe
that's not for me to just assume. But no, like,
if you have smatch, like.

Speaker 6 (01:23:44):
That's not a thing like this sweet like sweet, yeah, like,
it's not that weird, like and why would you do
that to get somebody to stop crying?

Speaker 3 (01:23:55):
That doesn't even make any sense why you would do that.
But uh, you know, the neighbor offering a bed and
offering her a wonderful place to say, because she's such
a good person, people can trust her to let her
into their house, shared.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Your she didn't stop it, offered me a bed she
had to add and free marijuana like like like, we
just have to go one step further all the time, everybody,
she didn't take it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:23):
She didn't take it. You got it, just let you
know anyway, So let's continue on.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
What is this do next?

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
Okay quote, We plotted to simultaneously report him to basically everyone.
I called my mom, who was a school counselor with
strong opinions on the flight of children in poverty. She
said foster care was probably better than that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
We all had.

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
Reports to make to CPS. We called the landlord, which
I thought the roommate was the landlord, but okay, the
nanny reported him for driving drunk to uber. I went
to the police again, showed them my bruise, and they
still said I couldn't prove anything.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
You guys, the bruise the size of her own hand.

Speaker 3 (01:25:25):
Like again, this guy. The whole story, Remember, the whole
story started because the landlord just asked for an advance
on the rent. Okay, wasn't asking to pay extra bills.
Wasn't just advance on rent? And now you've told the
whole world all this stuff. You want to ruin his

(01:25:46):
fucking life by calling CPS, which is a big deal. Like,
I have a very big problem with people that call
CPS on this bullshit feuds that they have with people
is disgusting And I have no respect for you when
you do that, because if Ziz was very concerned about
this child's safety, she would have done it a long
fucking time ago, not when she was just pissed off

(01:26:09):
at his dad because she's being a petty little bitch. Okay,
I do not believe this is genuine for one second.
And when you get out of jail, stat you can
email me what's that? Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness.
And so she has went and you recruit recruited this

(01:26:33):
guy's other roommate than nanny, the the neighbor. She's gathering
fucking people to ruin this dud's They ruined his job
by accusing him of well, we don't know if you
lost the job, but their attempts to have him lose
this kid, have him lose his job for what what

(01:26:56):
happened to do this to this guy? Sat with a
sight of law. I know I'm so feis to you, guys.
I've warned you. I did warn you that, Kinna.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
It didn't end how she had thought it would how
she had planned apparently how it would quote. I thought
I had a geontological obligation not to let him profit
by aggression meant to drive me out of my home
for resources. I wondered if this was enough. I felt

(01:27:29):
like maybe I was deontologically obligated to stay there. But fuck,
the door didn't really close anymore. There was a hole
in it. I heard he got him back. I considered
whether to show out. And you can't put a video

(01:27:49):
in front of an ADHD guy and I'm expect them
to still read a script. The door didn't close anymore.
There was a hole in it. I heard he got
him back. I considered whether to show up at fuck
o'clock in the morning and put something in his car's
gas tank to destroy it. By the way, somebody, if
you know one fuck o'clock is let me know Murphy jitsu,

(01:28:13):
bring a charged cordless drill to create a hole if
it was the one of those gas tank caps that locked,
and actually look up what things will destroy the engine.
But I decided to leave this as a story that
I could tell. Up until writing this, I never gave
him any further indication it was me, who cause it?

(01:28:35):
Murphy Jitsu is uh, let's see, it's the practice of
strengthening plans by repeatedly envisioning and defending against failure modes
until you would be shocked to see if it fail. Okay,
so everybody quick, make a plan. Then imagine that you've
passed the deadline and find out that plan failed. Now,

(01:28:58):
if you're shocked in the scenario, you're done. Otherwise, simulate
the most likely failure mode, defend against it, and repeat.
If that made sense to any of you, get the
fuck out of here.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
What I.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Leave, leave my presence, my digital presence. That makes no
fucking sense. I don't know who Murphy is, I don't
know who just is to but honestly, what she was
thinking about doing with the guest tank that would have
been a better ending. So maybe I.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
Mean, like, here's the thing, right, is like, so callin
CPS wasn't enough for her getting this guy's job, trying
to get this job taken away? Not good good enough,
or she's thinking about fucking destroying his car. But then
it's like, you know what, I didn't do that, guys,
because I thought that telling you this story was the

(01:29:57):
best thing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
What. This also further supports the theory that she doesn't
understand how doors work, but she's going to drill a
hole into a gas tank.

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
So I like how she gets instructions too.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
Yeah, murphy jitsu that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
I like Alice in Wonderland of regular doors, Like, I
just don't bigger, smaller, don't you eat me, drink me?
I don't know whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
I never gave him any further indication it was me
who caused it. I think you probably knows is you're
fucking told everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
So very subtle, if nothing else sounds very subtle, super subtle,
super subtle, super So you know, in a short period
of time, this has found herself both jobless and homeless.

Speaker 3 (01:30:55):
It's going great.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
She did manage to find a few places to stay,
applying to a lot of housing on Craigslist for sure,
what's going on? Well, you know what, that house is
perfect for this because I don't think it has a
door from where I can see in the window, it's perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
Were there hard? You guys?

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Scores are so hard? I mean, listen, here's there's your problem.
Like like finding places to live on Craigslist, it's like
speed dating with potential slumlords see kids children. Craigslist was
like a flea market red run by cryptids. Like you
might find a great deal, or you might have renting
a basement from a guy who insists you call him

(01:31:44):
the night Wizard. It could be either or.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
No, I'd rather the night Wizard.

Speaker 2 (01:31:54):
Yeah, night Wizard sounds like it comes with burritos, like
frozen burritos, sound like a plant's going to eat me.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
But my wizard does sound like he might like the
big screen experience.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
For some really awkward shit.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
Yep uh so Ziz continues to write, as I was
introduced to Liminal as the non transitioning trans woman, one
of the residents who posts pretty extreme anti trans woman
stuff on Facebook looked at me with something like disgust
and asked when I'd be leaving. I was then able

(01:32:35):
to find housing on Craigslist. Someone said I could sublet
if I wanted. Then that fell through after they saw
me in person. And while I am sure that that
kind of discrimination is incredibly real, it's also pretty possible
that people seeking rummates would prefer them to have a
source of income and not use words like deontological.

Speaker 3 (01:32:57):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like she's just like,
now I have nowhere to go.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
You don't get paid by syllable man three dollars a word.

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
Everybody's discriminating against her, even fellow trans people, which again,
if that's real, that's horrible. That's what's so hard about
all of this blog is there's like seeds of reality
in this that happen to people all the time, and
it is awful. But everything together with this, with her,

(01:33:39):
with like Lama said, the timing of events, it just
doesn't ring true, ring victim.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
But I'm like what you're saying, I mean, I totally
agree with. And what's interesting is typically the cult leader
will create this backstory as it's needed, but Ziz present
as intelligent enough to think far enough ahead to be like,
I'm going to create this now and then later when
I need to harken back to it, it will be

(01:34:10):
time and date stamped, as it's something I didn't just
all of a sudden make up.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
Yeah, it just seems to check out.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
You know that this is this is a I don't know,
this is a person leading their people to the Promised
Land story, you know what I mean? You know? So, yeah,
you're totally right, absolutely, and it may.

Speaker 3 (01:34:31):
Come across weird that, you know, especially laughing over here
and making jokes, you know, like, yeah, a lot of
people in these scenarios we probably wouldn't land at that.
I know, the whole story. Okay, that's the only reason
why we're here making jokes today is because it doesn't
it doesn't check out. Okay, if for if this was

(01:34:54):
all happening like it just it doesn't check out, you guys,
it doesn't, and you'll see these patterns. Like the whole
reason to tell you, guys, all this now is because
you are going to see with other people she interacts
with the same things are happening, right, Because that's what
you have to establish, is the pattern of behavior here.

(01:35:19):
And so that's what we're doing doing tonight. So the
next part, it's unclear whether she was staying where she
was staying excuse me, when this took place, But that's
that's really irrelevant to where she is as it's more

(01:35:39):
about her thought process here. So she has this to say,
I cleaned up the basement full of toys everywhere belonging
to the sexist left out long enough to induce learned helplessness,
to make the other housemates feel happy with me and

(01:35:59):
remind them that they were unhappy with her. I had
to stop myself from sorting them, reminding myself my intent
was of pure niceness.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
Getting like a vague blend of Mary Poppins in the
sorting hat or that that works, rip that works. Though.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
I mean, she's already pointing out like I'm gonna do
things to get other people to have problems with so
and so, Like she's all this is her second living
situation where she openly says, I want other people to
think good of me, but bad of this other person.

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
It's crazy, right, right, And you know, in an attempt
to save money, which is funny, because that's not funny.
The funny part is the second part of the sentence,
because they don't go together. And in an attempt to
say of money, Ziz began booking air and b airbnb's
for one or two months max, and would start moving

(01:37:08):
farther from the rationalist parts of the Bay Area in
an attempt to in it. I I sorry, I I
think I just like wigged out a little bit there.
Her job search still wasn't going well, mostly because Ziz
was too honest and not a c pwn. Is would

(01:37:32):
be pawn, but maybe it's a pone.

Speaker 3 (01:37:36):
Oh no, you know, none of this story makes sense.
I think we should just go with pond because none
of this makes sense anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:37:48):
I like the.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Pone or pawn. If I had a dime for every
time I said that exact sentence, I'd have one dime,
just one one time. I could not imagine honestly saying that, ever,
So let's go a little more into this career situation.

(01:38:16):
At a rationalist party, I asked a friend for meetups
who worked at Google if she knew why my application
I made about eight months earlier in the year never
got a response. She said she would look into it.
I got an email from Google saying they wanted to
interview me, that there would be a series of interviews

(01:38:38):
and if I passed them all, i'd have my case
sent to the committee, and then if I passed that,
I'd be hired. I also applied to other big tech companies,
finding excuse me finding an acquaintance to give me a referral,
but I never got a response. I was running out
of money quickly from Airbnb's. The process dragged on while

(01:39:00):
I spent most of my time applying to startups and
then getting rejected sometimes at the last minute. When they
asked what other companies I was applying to, and I
answered honestly that it included Google, they said they couldn't
compete with immn's salary. They were basically all looking for
clueless people who would believe they would stay they had
a good they had a good chance of becoming rich

(01:39:23):
from equity when the terms of the equity contracts were,
to put it mildly, completely exploitative and deceptive and not
really a guarantee of anything. They were. They were equity
options during funding rounds. They could be reduced in value
arbitrarily only the sense of niceness of sociopaths to ensure

(01:39:48):
their value. They would all be unvestible if you didn't
work there long enough often, and these startups were all
obviously not the next Google. Don't get the misimpression that
I was so scrupulous as to use scrupulous in a
sentence now as to convey an accurate impression of who

(01:40:13):
I was and what I wanted out of life. I
just I thought I could get away with not outright lying.
Perhaps I came off as evasive. They were all asking
after answers like They were all asking after answers like
I always wanted to work in a company like this.
I just love work so much. I don't even care
about money, not the intrinsic technical challenges. I love above

(01:40:37):
anything else I could do with my life contributing to
this team and doing interpretive labor. This startup seems irreplaceable,
and I'd never go someplace else. I want to grow
old with this company.

Speaker 1 (01:40:48):
I want to grow old with you.

Speaker 2 (01:40:52):
I was inexperienced with convincing body language, inclusive lies like this.
I did not have the right false face, but very
quick to think up words to say.

Speaker 3 (01:41:09):
I.

Speaker 2 (01:41:11):
I have some thoughts. So I'm gonna rant for a
moment off the yes first. What an absolute roller coaster
of self importance and victimhood with a strong finish of
blaming everyone else for her complete lack of self awareness. Now,
let's break this delusion down first, who asks about their

(01:41:33):
rejected job application? At our rationality party, everyone's around discussing
game theory and the optimal way to microwave soup. And
this is out here cornering some poor like Google employee saying.

Speaker 1 (01:41:48):
Hey, so did you like ghost me?

Speaker 7 (01:41:51):
Or is the algorithm just like allergic to my genius.
Just because skirt Ups and other companies are handing out
golden thrones and unlimited stock options to random people who
have never really worked and sneer at their business models
while begging for a paycheck doesn't mean she's the smart one.

(01:42:11):
The companies are looking for clueless people who believe in equity. Yeah,
and her, who was the person out job hopping on
a trust fund Airbnb tour who thought she was going
to be the next Silicon Valley messiah. My favorite part
is that she straight up admits she bombed interviews because

(01:42:33):
she couldn't figure out how to fake enthusiasm properly, didn't
have the right false face. No kidding, who wants to
hire a walking Reddit thread on why capitalism is a scam?

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
No? Thanks? I never have never seen someone so bad
at playing the game while also acting like they're above it.
She wasn't rejected, she was refused. She just refused to
gravel properly. And no, it's it's it's everyone else's fault
that she's broke. Girl with a year, Maybe, just maybe,

(01:43:08):
the problem isn't the startups, the recruiters, or the contracts.
Maybe it's the unrelenting cloud of entitlement and superiority. You
carry like a limited edition cologne made from the extract
of Diddy baby oil called failure and Smugness. And I
now get off of my and.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
And he took himself up. Now I think it's gone
for a bad the break. He is not wrong. We
all have our rent rants avouzes, and I mean JT
pretty much nailed it there, like, yeah, what do you
expect girl?

Speaker 1 (01:43:50):
And this is what an interview is like. There is
always the balance of presenting yourself accurately but also as
this perfect hire and trying to vibe out Okay, well
what how are we actually like how is that actually
going to go? But to go on multiple interviews where

(01:44:12):
you drop in Google gets you booted from the interview
more or less, and you keep doing it. It's like
that this is the point of interviews is to learn.

Speaker 3 (01:44:20):
Yeah, and to think that like you don't have to
play that, like everybody has to play the game, okay,
and nobody likes it. Nobody likes it, right, but like
for a reason, and you know it's crazy. Is like
she has only been here in San Francisco for like
three months. You guys like brand new to San Francisco. Yes, no, Ja,

(01:44:45):
her housing is now. It's just three months. Just all
falls appier, very quickly, very quick.

Speaker 2 (01:44:54):
I got real excited. Thought I was on a big
screen TV.

Speaker 1 (01:44:57):
Oh okay, well things are about to get exciting because
we're about to meet a new character in this saga.
Oh yes. At a rationalist meetup in October twenty sixteen,
Ziz met Gwen Danielson. The Kimmy Gibbler took her DJ Tanner.

Speaker 3 (01:45:20):
It's so true, you guys, it's so true.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
You don't even know.

Speaker 3 (01:45:27):
As you go.

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
Gwen graduated high school in Spokane, Washington, and much like Ziz,
she had a few years of interacting with online rationalist
communities and Mary and Seifar before she left behind a
full scholarship to Rice University, where she was researching the

(01:45:50):
ethical development of artificial intelligence, and moved to San Francisco
with the idea that she, too, was going to help
save the world. Oh wow, Gwen writes in her own blog,
Because of course, I did this for about two years
before deciding to move to the Bay in order to

(01:46:11):
figure out what was the problem that I had the
most relative advantage to solve and to have tighter feedback
loops interacting with people working on AI safety research. I
optimized as though I was a part of a policy
of people working to save the world.

Speaker 3 (01:46:29):
Oh look at that our second Murray person who is
wanting to save the world. You guys, what, Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:46:38):
She's gonna stop researching AI.

Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
Sorry, and like living conditions and things. These parents should
have just invested in like a locked journal that they
could write in. And I feel like we would have
saved a whole bunch of time just saying I need.

Speaker 3 (01:46:59):
Here's is you know gwyn the fourth person that we're
in depth to here, and she too highly educated, full
ride to a university, and she's just another one that's like,
fuck it, I'm going to go to San Francisco and
save the fucking world. Like you know, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:47:23):
Told me San Francisco was the place where you go
to save the fucking world. I would say, uh no.

Speaker 3 (01:47:35):
Well, I mean that was the hub in the sixties
and seventies. It didn't play out very well. Like if
you are still fun, got.

Speaker 2 (01:47:42):
Ourselves a bridge.

Speaker 3 (01:47:46):
Cool bridge, all right. So Gwynn moved to the Bay
Area in August of twenty sixteen, one of the biggest
problems she noticed was the elevated rent situation and the
harm of that on people like her. Now, I will say,
as a side, I have frequented the Bay Area some
reddit because I was like, well, what is people like there?

(01:48:07):
Turns out their rent problem is ridiculous. You guys, they're
they're not out of Yeah, they are not wrong, and
the fact that it is atrocious rent problems in that city,
so like, I don't want you to think that, like
they're wrong about this, Like it is a very very

(01:48:27):
big problem living there. But let's read some more from
Gwen's Gwen's block here. This is Gwen's writing quote. I've
seen many others living conditions decay to near homelessness. Even
the most functional group houses I've visited are overpacked with
people in tiny spaces, often multiple people to a room,

(01:48:51):
sometimes rooms made from putting curtains in what are designed
as common areas and filled with clutter. Other group houses
I visit look like homeless camps. Most of the Bay
Area rationalists I met appear abnormally traumatized and not healing.
Most of the people I observe are trans. Maybe it's

(01:49:12):
different for others. Our siss set I cannot say this
word to signal like sis. Sexist community pushes us to
the bottom, pushes us towards logistical and emotional hell. The
rationality community, for all that it promises, is the same
as everywhere else. And Gwynn is not wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
No, no, no, that's the thing. No. Like, for instance,
in twenty thirteen to twenty fourteen, we lived in an
apartment that was a thousand square feet about one thousand dollars, right,
And it has been twelve years and it's gone up
one thousand dollars a month. That's ridiculous. And that's Richmond,

(01:49:58):
that's not Sam, it's I'm sure it's ten times worse
in San Francisco. I have no doubt.

Speaker 1 (01:50:05):
It's just it.

Speaker 3 (01:50:07):
Is so gross, and I just I just want to
point out the difference. We just read a short blurp
from Gwen's block. It is very different than Says's blog.
You notice how Gwenn cares about other people and about
actually solving something. What's a difference in those two two blogs?

(01:50:28):
There so so so so.

Speaker 2 (01:50:33):
Gwen's housing situation for herself anyway, was to buy and
live on a sailboat. And the is it and senal
and snal's what that sounds dirty?

Speaker 1 (01:50:44):
I looked it upsal.

Speaker 2 (01:50:47):
Thank you for looking it up because it keeps me
from saying Encinal. Yeah, uh, I wanted to buy and
live on a sailboat in the Encinal basin. Now. Zizz
wrote about her and Gwen's first encounter in her blog,
because of course she did. And I'm gonna be honest,

(01:51:07):
there's a lot to unpack here, a lot like like
you know that person who ends up packing for like
a month when they're going away for two days. There's
a lot too unpacked here. And I quote in October,

(01:51:31):
I talked to someone introducing themselves as Jasper Gwen at
a meetup in some sort of confusion over whether they
were a trans woman. I talked it over with them
and also talked about the contents of this blog, which
they seem pretty interested in. They had internal coherence problems
and a lot of mental arts that seemed based on hacks,

(01:51:55):
based on quote, shut up and do the impossible.

Speaker 3 (01:52:02):
I love how SiZ Once't you know that she talked
to Gwenn about her blog and they talked about a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:52:10):
Just to let you have but I've heard of a
meet cute.

Speaker 3 (01:52:13):
This is not that she was pretty interested in what
I had to say. You guys like, woh, you know what.

Speaker 2 (01:52:24):
And the more Gwen gets talked about, the more I
care less that she cared about the blog.

Speaker 1 (01:52:28):
So so to continue reading from the book of this
they and I use. They then pronouns respectively retrospectively because
they are by gender. Showed me the sailboat they were
in the course of moving on to for housing, which
was anchored in the insinal basin. I thought that was

(01:52:50):
pretty sweet. When it was offered for me to stay
the night and I said I didn't bring my hormones
with me, they lent me some. Wait. I thought they
didn't know they were a trans woman.

Speaker 3 (01:53:03):
Oh right, what they didn't know? What?

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
I thought that was pretty sweet. That is the version
of shwing.

Speaker 3 (01:53:19):
Oh my goodness, I just how like she's just like wait,
I didn't think they were one. Like, okay, calm yourself,
says all right.

Speaker 1 (01:53:31):
Quote.

Speaker 3 (01:53:33):
They talked about how when they were a child, their
friend who was a cat, had died and they had
to use their own retroactive paraphrasing sworn an oath of
vengeance against death. They had investigated the paranormal looking for

(01:53:54):
anything that could be replicated, and Munchkin gone around in
circles and then heard about a selection effect where if
you stop making random trials when the paranormal seems to
be working, you will appear to get results better than chance.
Realize that they that realized that was all they were

(01:54:17):
finding and quit.

Speaker 2 (01:54:20):
What now, What the fuck is going on?

Speaker 3 (01:54:27):
Have you not declared a vengeance against jeth JT?

Speaker 2 (01:54:31):
I thinkstood.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
I think what Ziz is saying in the longest way
possible is confirmation bias pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:54:41):
Much right, Okay, but I do love I think I
I wrote what the fuck is going on? Before I
read this part that I'm about to read to you now. Quote.

(01:55:02):
They also told me about how they were other kin,
specifically dragon kin, not in a supernatural way, but a
morphological freedom way. A dragon shaped necklace.

Speaker 3 (01:55:19):
Huh, I said, as one does.

Speaker 2 (01:55:22):
As one does. Yeah, this is totally the first conversation
you have with somebody. I'm a dragon and said it.
The necklace was a reminder of how they would turn
into a dragon after the Singularity and eat their human body.
Since that seemed like the most fitting way to dispose
of it, I said, I'd want mine burned once I

(01:55:45):
could escape it. In later conversations, they came to the
conclusion that draconity was dracon Draconity was a means of
keeping their feminine alive in a hostile world, lacking the
I'll retroactively phrase it as resistance to social reality. To

(01:56:08):
say so outright and to all of that, I say,
I think I might go back to having neurovirus. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:56:16):
Now, I'm going to need everybody here to type in
the chat what you are becoming after the Singularity.

Speaker 3 (01:56:23):
I mean, I didn't know the Singularity was going to
bring about dragons. I didn't get the memo dragon memo.

Speaker 1 (01:56:31):
I also didn't get the memo that being a dragon
was the only way to keep your femininity alive in
a hostle world.

Speaker 8 (01:56:38):
I know we didn't get the memo for that either,
like I would assume we were in that email chain,
but I guess not that cool.

Speaker 3 (01:56:52):
And if you if you're not sure what the Singularity is,
JT's going to explain it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:02):
Please No, I see this like conversation happening, and I
see Gwen like honestly saying this and that I'm gonna
eat my body since that's the most fitting way to
dispose of it. And then I see Ziz going and
I quote her actions.

Speaker 3 (01:57:20):
Zoe singularity, he went away for.

Speaker 2 (01:57:31):
Great scratching a.

Speaker 1 (01:57:34):
She is what she is.

Speaker 3 (01:57:37):
I mean, if that's how we bring about dragons, I'm
all for it. Everyone knows I love my dragons. I
wouldn't guess that the dragon. I would assume my my
other can Islama, since that's what I know, namas you know,
but I don't quite understand this other kin thing. But

(01:57:57):
you know, okay, all right, I'm here. I'm here for you, Gwenn.

Speaker 2 (01:58:04):
So I like how you said I'm here for you
and not for it. Apparently okay, So apparently other can
is a subculture of people who identify as partially, entirely,
partially or entirely non human, often as a species or
entity from fantasy or mythology. I've never I'm like, I'm
not like nerd nerd, but I no, yes, i am,

(01:58:26):
but I've never heard of this before.

Speaker 3 (01:58:29):
It's a thing you guys like, it's it's close. They
just don't dress up that way. It's basically, it seems
it from my understanding, which is not.

Speaker 2 (01:58:44):
You know, like I'm not even joking, like that's what
it seems like you know what I mean it is.

Speaker 3 (01:58:49):
Yeah, no, it's very similar to that from my brief understanding.
But I mean, if that's again, if that's how we
get dragons, I'm all for it.

Speaker 1 (01:58:58):
But okay, welcome in the eighties. Good to see you. Oh,
welcome to the craziness. But we're in the middle of
a story. If you couldn't fell from there's a kid.

Speaker 2 (01:59:10):
In a dragon on the screen, it's going, well, it
makes sense, it makes.

Speaker 1 (01:59:15):
A lot of sense. So this continued, saying they said
they'd asked to be a girl when they were young
child and had been turned down. They talked a lot
about precursor ideas to aliveness, a lot said they hated
sex and seeing animals have sex and automatic actions like
that seemed like a spark of personhood going out that

(01:59:39):
sounded familiar I and permanently convinced them they were a
trans woman.

Speaker 2 (01:59:44):
Hmm, So you don't understand, Like, that's literally not this's job,
Like it's not her job to convince someone of that,
Like is she that high and mighty? Like I can
only imagine the journal post we would be reading of
some and tried that on her.

Speaker 3 (02:00:02):
Oh oh, could you imagine. I mean, look what happens
if you masturbate in your living room? Oh my god,
could you imagine?

Speaker 2 (02:00:14):
And and tomorrow newspaper headlines will say lama masturbatorologist.

Speaker 3 (02:00:24):
I mean this is her first Yes, this is her
herd Gwin's first conversations. I don't know about you, guys,
but this is if you ever converse with me for
the first time, expect it to go this way. Apparently,
I want to know what you're going to be in
a singularity.

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
No that's not how it goes. No, no, no, that's
not how it went with me. What have you changed?
Don't kidding?

Speaker 3 (02:00:54):
Yes, the lama, Oh my gosh, just stop it. Okay,
Oh okay, so we're going to continue reading on you guys,
all right. Quote. They seemed to think animals were moral patients,

(02:01:17):
had determination and actual course changing and epititi stemiology. Okay,
I like this person. I told them that if they
could be turned to the dark side, they would make
a powerful ally. They were into this and asked me

(02:01:37):
questions to try and learn out of my mental tech.
You guys, we can't get more than two sentences and
this without being like wt F, what what are you
even saying.

Speaker 1 (02:01:56):
I mean, it sounds like this is saying that she
convinced Gwen to become a woman and also join the
dark side in a matter of an hour.

Speaker 3 (02:02:09):
I mean, I know, yeah, she's already.

Speaker 1 (02:02:14):
Dragon's got a lot about.

Speaker 3 (02:02:18):
Right, already a dragon. I mean, like, but can you mad?
This is your first conversation with somebody and you're like,
you know what, and you're on a boat. You love animals,
I love animals. Now, if you could just turn to
the dark side of the kid, yeah, a seamog.

Speaker 1 (02:02:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:02:40):
This is the crazy first conversation I was somebody. Jeez,
and learn out my mental tech. By the way, not
in this episode. We're not gonna explore what mental tech is.
But I promise you next episode, oh we're gonna talk
about this mental tech. We're going to talk a lot

(02:03:03):
about this. You guys can't wait. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:03:07):
It's mental in the nineties way tech.

Speaker 3 (02:03:13):
All right.

Speaker 1 (02:03:14):
Before we can get to mental tech, we have to
go back, unfortunately, to Zizz's job search from hell. She writes,
I passed all the Google interviews. Google adjusted the schedule
repeatedly adding an extra surprise interview. How rude I had
to ask my parents to pay rent for me again. Oh, finally,

(02:03:38):
around November, they said I'd passed the committee and I'd
be hired. I just had to talk to teams and
be put on one. I asked how long this would take.
They said not that long, but it varied. I said, okay,
I just want to know if it's going to take
like four weeks or something. The recruiter laughed and said
it never takes that long. Three months of recruiter saying

(02:03:59):
any day week now, and me telling my parents that
they said that, my parents cut me off with some warning.

Speaker 2 (02:04:07):
What I can I just say that I remember distinctly,
vividly writing when she said I had to ask my
parents to pay for my renting again. I wrote in
the in the margins, come the fuck on.

Speaker 3 (02:04:26):
Exactly. Oh, so you haven't gotten to any of these jobs.
Your parents are paying for your bills, you're being an
asshole to your roommate that you've been kicked out of
like and and then what does she say? She says, Oh,
Google adjusted the schedule repeatedly, so they're working with her.
But then she says, adding in an extra surprise interview,

(02:04:50):
how dare they.

Speaker 2 (02:04:53):
Wasn't a sociopath, right, like, oh my goodness, and and
then she cut you off some morning.

Speaker 3 (02:05:01):
I think it's because you've been offered a lot of jobs.
I understand. I understand that you're not your first pick. Okay,
I get it, Like your parents are probably like, get
a fucking.

Speaker 2 (02:05:13):
Job, right, and like three months, Like if this did
happen this way, four weeks turning into three that's terrible
hiring practices. But it's also Google. They can get the
fuck away with anything they want. And it's not surprising.
It's not surprising the fact that she applied to all
these jobs and didn't hear back from some of them,
that's not fucking surprising. I applied to one hundred, I

(02:05:33):
hear back from maybe ten percent of them. Sure, it's
not surprising.

Speaker 3 (02:05:39):
Right, And I wouldn't make fun of this that bad
until shortly we'll find out why I've been making fun
of this the whole time about Google, because you'll see
what she decides later. But oh, okay, so it's it's
mister sorry. So all right. So by early twenty seventeen,

(02:06:02):
we're in twenty seventeen, now January and February, don't know
the exact day, but Ziz finds herself still jobless and
her parents have cut her off financially, so staying in
the arabnb's was no longer going to be an option
for her. I don't know how much she was paying.

(02:06:22):
I'm sorry our Amy has put red flags as a batter,
perfect Davy. Can you guys all tell in chat tell
Amy how much you would love for her to come
on a show. Sometimes she's kind of yell at me
later for this, but just he's like, yeah, Amy, Oh

(02:06:45):
come on, you're okay anyway. So she doesn't have a
place to stay, she doesn't have a fucking job, her
parents aren't supporting her anymore, so what does she do? Well,
So then she contacts Gwynnon and expresses maybe interests in

(02:07:05):
renting a space on her cell boat, as if Ziz
realistically had anywhere else to go at this point. Like
I say that with a whole lot of snark, because,
as you'll sud hear, Ziz kind of paints herself as

(02:07:27):
a savior here instead of what I think is really
the other way around. All Right, Gwinn had her own
place to live, you know, although she was low on
money all right, and planned just to live out in
the open water in the bay. That was to save money, right.
She paid money for her boat, she had her bills paid,

(02:07:50):
but Ziz went to her because this is the only
person that needs something from her, not the other way around.
Gwen doesn't need anything from Zix. But it's just cute
that she's like, maybe answer asta.

Speaker 2 (02:08:06):
Yeah, And if if you think that, if you think
that Zizz's savior complex stops here, scoff, I'll uh hook quote.
They said they had just been moving the sailboat out

(02:08:27):
of Richardson Bay, where it was legal to anchor a
boat to live on permanently, and they were broke. If
I wanted to stay in a marina and have electricity constantly,
I'd have to cover the marina's cost fifteen dollars a day.
That's four hundred and fifty dollars excuse me ish a month.
I offered to pay. By the way, thank you so

(02:08:49):
much for doing the math for Mezz, and I mean
that genuinely. I can't fucking do it. I offered to
pay six hundred dollars per month. This was about half
of what I've been paying in the airbnbs. And cyber
textis do know what that is to move between airbnbs?
Is she in like fifth element? What the fuck is

(02:09:10):
a cyber? Okay? And and they were, they were poor
as hell, and I wanted them to have some margin.
So like like this, this is calling herself a Samaritan.
And this is calling herself a Samaritan's like calling a
cattle lifeguard. Like sure, they're gonna watch you struggle, but
only out of curiosity and maybe a little bit of spike,

(02:09:31):
Like it's not you can't, I don't wait.

Speaker 3 (02:09:39):
I like how Ziz pointed out, not once, but twice,
how poor Gwen was right, she just wants you to
know she's still poor. Love all the sex, the money
is just gottang. In case you forgot, she was poor,
even though she has her own fucking boat, she's poor,
you guys.

Speaker 2 (02:10:00):
I mean she's both poor even though.

Speaker 3 (02:10:02):
She has no job. Even though this has no job,
her parents aren't paying her rent no more. But in
case you didn't know, was broker than or Gwenn was
broker than her, And look at her doing great things.
Help her out. She's giving her extra money, you guys,
extra money. What a wonderful person.

Speaker 2 (02:10:24):
Any Well, listen, I know we're know we're moving moving
on to captain. But you know what boat stands for, right?
No break out another thousand?

Speaker 3 (02:10:37):
Oh yeah, wait till you guys.

Speaker 2 (02:10:42):
Yeah, I mean it's been joked on many times and
like dangerous catch her whatever, But I mean, truly, there's
a reason for you go and boat broke, Like, yeah,
there's a reason.

Speaker 3 (02:10:54):
I now, after this story, I understand that statement more.
I'm like, oh yeah, what were you guys thinking? But anyway,
Kevin tell us some more about what Zizz has to say.

Speaker 1 (02:11:07):
Well, she has some more complaints about her new boat
she's living on in We have an image of Richardson
Bay at night that so, just imagine living in this hell.
Ziz says, I couldn't use my computer as well, couldn't

(02:11:28):
set up my three monitors, there was no room, couldn't
have a programming flow state. For nine hours, I had
trouble sleeping the slightest noise, and my mind kept alerting
me to the possibility that someone like my roommate from
several months ago, was going to attack me in my sleep.

Speaker 3 (02:11:46):
Jesus fun.

Speaker 2 (02:11:47):
The only reason she monitors is because of how long
her fucking journal posts are. That's it. There's so long,
but only that. But those three monitors are are separated
into two pages per monitor, and she's still fucking typing,
not being able to find space. It's just any.

Speaker 1 (02:12:11):
She still can't spell the words write either, still.

Speaker 3 (02:12:14):
Can't spell the words are right, And I like how
she brings up this fucking roommate again is wrong. I'm sorry,
did you turn off a breaker box on the boats?
Is like? What are you even doing right now?

Speaker 2 (02:12:32):
But okay, that's a gorgeous place, by the way, it.

Speaker 1 (02:12:35):
Is beautiful, and you're on a boat, so like your
roommate's probably not going to be knocking at your door
like your old roommate.

Speaker 3 (02:12:43):
She just wanted to remind you that guy's an asshole.
In case you guys forget. She's very traumatized by the
whole incident that she very much made worse. But okay,
oh yeah, all right, so let's hear some more what
to say quote. I talked to Jasper for several hours

(02:13:04):
a day about transness, about neuroscience, about their crazy plans
to save the world to breed super intelligent dogs, about mine,
about the ferret named Nova they considered their son, whom

(02:13:24):
they had given to a pet store after deciding training
ferrets was not the optimal course, and I give you
guys the floor for that amazing.

Speaker 2 (02:13:38):
Well. And unfortunately I didn't even I didn't put in
the right spot. I would I would like to retract
the statement that I had written here because I would
like you to continue this this this thing, the whole thing.
It's that's not even worth it. Everybody just continues to
go back to about the ferret and keep I'm not

(02:14:01):
going to stop this this idea train.

Speaker 3 (02:14:03):
Okay, in case we missed the ferret part because we
heard the super intelligent dog part, and if you guys
forgot the fair I'm just gonna repeat that again, okay,
because it is two things back to back that you're like, wait,
what what what? What is happening? All right, So we're
going to talk about transness, We're going to talk about neuroscience,

(02:14:24):
about their crazy plans to save the world, which is
the breed Super Intelligent talks about my meaning says about
the ferret named Nova. They considered their son, whom they
had given to a pet store after deciding training ferrets

(02:14:44):
was not the opt optimal course, changed their mind and
tried to find him again so he could be cry preserved,
and it had been too late about my attempts to
figure out the quote actual art of planning about my

(02:15:08):
mental tech I wrote about on my blog in case
you didn't know this one about my much cruder back
then theories of human morality.

Speaker 2 (02:15:23):
Guy, she treats she treats her blog like she's a
vegan or something like she's gotta let her know. Everybody
knows that she's a vegan and she has a blog.

Speaker 3 (02:15:33):
You guys, you know I know that you're reading.

Speaker 2 (02:15:38):
Why are we crying? Preserving the ferrit?

Speaker 3 (02:15:41):
Okay, let's start with verse the breeding of intelligent dogs.
I super intelligent, super intelligent. Sorry you're this.

Speaker 2 (02:15:52):
Until I pull out a hot dog.

Speaker 3 (02:15:57):
Let me, I do want to Amy, put that dog
back up there and get look at that That give
is amazing, by the way, look at the.

Speaker 2 (02:16:09):
Dog clap Yeah again, though, I pull out a hot
dog and judge dog is gonna go out the window
like it is.

Speaker 3 (02:16:17):
But honestly, as the ray things are going, I mean,
should we give the super intelligent dogs a try? We
don't know, all right? I know it sounds crazy, but
like maybe I don't know, all right, So there's that.
Let's talk about Nova the ferret. Oh, I wish we
had a cute picture of a ferret. Okay, So Gwyn

(02:16:40):
considers this ferret her son, which is as a pet owner.
I mean, I have kids, I have a kid, and
I have pets. I love them a lot. They are different,
but I very much love my dogs. Despite what Zoe thanks,
I do love them.

Speaker 2 (02:16:57):
But what everybody else thinks for Zoe, Right, So she.

Speaker 3 (02:17:01):
Has this ferret, then she gives it back to the
pet store because she's like, I can't train a ferret, apparently,
and then she changed her mind and she went to
go find him again to cryo preserve. Was she going
to kill the ferret to cryo preserve.

Speaker 1 (02:17:22):
It or what?

Speaker 2 (02:17:24):
Well, it's it just reminds me of Futurama with all
the heads and then all of a sudden, there's just
like a ferret just preserved, and the ferris just like
I don't fucking know.

Speaker 3 (02:17:40):
Like what is cryo preserve? We're like, yes, why is?

Speaker 1 (02:17:44):
Why is training ferrets up there with breeding super intelligent
dogs as far as a plan to save the world.

Speaker 3 (02:17:52):
I mean, she can't train fer She's gonna train dogs,
and it's like.

Speaker 2 (02:18:03):
Train a dog.

Speaker 3 (02:18:06):
And then I like how Zizz ends that with about
my much cruder back then theories of human morality.

Speaker 2 (02:18:15):
Okay, she gaes, can you imagine a just affair with.

Speaker 3 (02:18:27):
Listen. I don't have a lot of I know I'm
laughing at Gwen. I don't have a lot of bad
things to say about when. But Gwen, if you're listening,
because I know you're out there, I want to have
this conversation with you about super intelligent dog saving the world.
I know I'm laughing. I do think it's a silly idea,
but I will happily entertain that conversation.

Speaker 2 (02:18:47):
And you're saying we are laughing within the context of
Zizz and Zizzians, we're not necessarily laughing at just you
doing that. I think cool and working with dog, I
can see it. But with the context of how this
was like the first second conversation you've ever had, I

(02:19:07):
just shi, Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:19:11):
But if you want to reach out, email me at
Tara at TCWT Media and iwill dot com and I'll
happily talk about super intelligent dogs taken over.

Speaker 1 (02:19:21):
No, I don't't know how that.

Speaker 3 (02:19:28):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:19:29):
Anyway, they talked.

Speaker 2 (02:19:31):
To themselves all the time, an absence of a private
room made it impossible for me to spend long hours
at a time thinking about anything unless it was talking
to them. Me and Jasper. Gwen argued over roommate difficulties.
They had ADHD in.

Speaker 3 (02:19:50):
Autism not surprising.

Speaker 2 (02:19:52):
They were very I don't know why that matters. They
were very particular about influence of things most people would
ignore on their COG. They had to have an uninterrupted
wake up process of some hours after they woke up
shortly after noon, they said, way longer than nine hours.
They had mapped out the cognitive effects of each hour

(02:20:16):
of their stimulants and would get very angry if I
interrupted their thoughts at the wrong time, like it would
ruin their whole day. Who does this?

Speaker 3 (02:20:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:20:36):
Who?

Speaker 3 (02:20:39):
I mean? I think it's interesting that so I don't
know how many of these people have autism. I don't
want to assume that people do. I know a couple
of them. In fact, do I know that Gwen does.
I know that Emma, who will talk about later, also does,
because they said that they are. And I don't think
we can assume other people. But I do think you know,

(02:20:59):
last episode, we talked about Ophelia bach Holt, who also
would by time decide how efficient she was. And you know,
it's very similar to Gwinn here, so we have a
very similar persona in that sort of a thing.

Speaker 2 (02:21:18):
It sounds like she was roommates with an Excel spreadsheet
just like Rose and columns of conditions, schedules, quiet hours
like quote, like they had mapped out the like okay,
doctor adderall like maybe also map out how to be
a functional human being. I mean, listen, if one question

(02:21:42):
ruins your entire day as you're getting ready, that's not
a schedule the hostage situation.

Speaker 1 (02:21:49):
But we also have to consider the source here. This
is coming from Zizz and I feel like, to me,
this seems like Gwenn could have said, don't talk to
me to life, how to cup a car coffee? And
what this road? Yes, who knows, who knows how extreame
it was.

Speaker 2 (02:22:07):
I retract my statements, but like.

Speaker 3 (02:22:10):
Very much I agree. Yeah, like, don't talk, don't do
not DM me before ten o'clock in the morning. You're
gonna get an answer. It's not gonna be a good one.
And I was gonna be like, listen, I'm heading coffee,
come back to me like two hours.

Speaker 2 (02:22:26):
Okay, I just expect not to hear anything from you
until you've had coffee. It's like a you know, waking break.

Speaker 3 (02:22:37):
Take a breaks on, right, Okay, so let's see what
more she has to say about Gwen. Yes, please do
remember it. Every all of this that we're reading is
in Sisu's works. Okay, this is worse.

Speaker 2 (02:22:57):
That's why I said, like, within the context of this journal,
this is like the jokes are coming. However, I would
it would be really interesting to talk to some of
these folks outside of that situation.

Speaker 3 (02:23:09):
Yes, yes, I would very much. I do not believe
that this is a reliable narrator, obvious for very obvious reasons. Quinn,
I would love to talk to you, by.

Speaker 2 (02:23:23):
The way, right, okay, more rob Zombie than anything.

Speaker 3 (02:23:31):
Let's get back into her post here quote. When I
made accommodations for this, they started invoking them all the time,
days on end to avoid difficult conversations about accommodations I
wanted from them in a false faces sort of way,

(02:23:51):
don't don't, don't. There was something else to the social
strategy they were using that fit this. They discouraged me
from going Metta.

Speaker 1 (02:24:02):
Just christs.

Speaker 3 (02:24:05):
Sorry. At one point they threatened to kick me out
because if I remember correctly, after more than a day
of them saying I couldn't talk about my grievances because
it would do bad things to their cognition, I said
something anyway, Eventually they said, okay, let's talk about the

(02:24:27):
thing we did. They were surprised. The mean thing was
just that I was sick of being discouraged and talking
about things.

Speaker 2 (02:24:38):
Right, guys, I'm on three and I wish I was
on five.

Speaker 3 (02:24:42):
Yeah, right, it was just a little thing that has
turned into a big things.

Speaker 2 (02:24:47):
Just a little good well, the whole, the whole going
meta thing is like talking about talking about something, and
I just don't understand what she's like. She is that
just like a was it an SEO word that she
just wanted to be able to be found on the
journal a lot better? Because that ain't right. I mean,
we have.

Speaker 3 (02:25:09):
Heard a lot of Zizz's words, and you know what,
I'm tired of fucking listening to you, to this. Okay,
just shut up and let me have my fucking brain
for a thirty minutes. Okay, Like I can't even blame.
And then you have Gwenn, who apparently has ADHD and autism.
I'm sure that's even more for her. And you're like,

(02:25:30):
you know what, really, it was just I was tired
of being told that I shouldn't talk about these crazy
fucking things that we're.

Speaker 2 (02:25:38):
Talking about me, and I didn't have my three screens
to distract me.

Speaker 3 (02:25:47):
Anyway, Let's go continue on.

Speaker 1 (02:25:49):
So to conclude this discussion with Gwen, as those rights,
they came to agree with me about the false face assertions,
started seeing the same things and other people apologized. It
was continuous work. Social strategies ran deep. Over time, they
became less painful to be around. And this is as

(02:26:13):
far as we can tell. Like her best friend you
saying it's less painful to be around, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:26:21):
Like, remind her not to write me a review on LinkedIn,
right like?

Speaker 3 (02:26:30):
And she's like, they came to agree with me, Like,
look at how good I am convincing people of my
ideas after you probably sat and talked to them for
four freaking hours. She's going around in circles. I'm guessing
you probably turned off the breaker to the boat.

Speaker 2 (02:26:45):
I don't know, people agreeing with your ideas and literally
raising a white flag because of all the red flags
you're showing. Yes, there's a difference yes, but if you
were worried about her worry about money. Quote. I finally

(02:27:12):
actually applied for unemployment benefits. I had had a psychological
barrier to doing so. I had been in talks with NASA,
where I used to work, to do remote work for them.
They were interested in paying me like an intern, but
not as an employee, as an independent contractor without benefits

(02:27:34):
at ten ninety nine. There's a reason that exists. They
cited financial difficulties. I did not believe them. Drat. You
know what, if her entire journal is just drat, that's perfect.
I had liked them. Google continued to string me along,
but the interviews dried up. I got approved for unemployment benefits. Wow,

(02:27:59):
ten dollars. I'd like to see that application. This meant
I had some time because I'd like to copy it.
I stopped bugging Google to complete the supposedly confirmed I'd
get high aired process. If they hired me soon, it
would deprive me of at least several months of freedom.

(02:28:21):
In other words, if I work, I don't get to yep.
We all know this. There was probably no way to
quote put them on reserve. But if they were, if
they ever were going to hire me becoming forgotten about
was about the same thing.

Speaker 3 (02:28:40):
So do both of you want to call bullshit on
this whole thing? Because I do?

Speaker 2 (02:28:45):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:28:45):
Please, So you're telling me you're gonna be like Google,
I'm fine. I have ten thousand dollars in employment that
I finally but for first of all, I had had
a psychological barrier to doing so, like, what are you
even saying? First of all? But also you're gonna basically

(02:29:09):
tell Google to fuck off right now because you have
ten thousand dollars? How much is Google probably gonna pay you?

Speaker 2 (02:29:16):
But you're like, hmm, well, well it's not enough in
accordance to how much she thinks she's worth.

Speaker 3 (02:29:23):
That's right, Like I got ten thousand dollars. I'm on
a boat now. Don't get me wrong. I don't want
anyone to think there is nothing shameful about taking unemployment benefits.
You've paid into it, You've earned it. I'm all about that, right.
It's just she has been complaining about this freaking job,

(02:29:44):
and now she's literally saying, I'm not gonna look it
out of much into it because I have ten thousand
dollars now, so and I don't think they're gonna wait,
so I just don't. You're living on a boat, your
friend's boat who she bought, not you, just a reminder,

(02:30:05):
King Gwen over here for now.

Speaker 1 (02:30:08):
Mm hmm. Well, I don't know if the ten thousand
dollars was just like retroactive pay for unemployment or if
she's getting future payments.

Speaker 2 (02:30:19):
I don't fully.

Speaker 1 (02:30:20):
Understand how it's possible given the fact that she is
turning has turned down jobs, has not I mean having
been unemployment. Things you have to do, yeah, including take
jobs that are offered you, yeah, were reasonable.

Speaker 3 (02:30:38):
So it's almost like somebody might have had to oh,
I don't know, falsify forms or go against their moral
you know, standards that they didn't want to go against
earlier for that undergrad job. It's almost like they might
have had to do the same things to get unemployment
in this scenario. But what do I know? But okay, okay,

(02:31:03):
Gwen or sorry, not you, gwinn, I'm so sorry, says
not you, not you, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:31:14):
Jerry anyway, Jerry.

Speaker 3 (02:31:18):
Well, I'm not entirely sure about my feelings are one yet.
But in the Grand Salmon thing, okay, all right, so
quote there was something really deep I hadn't had before,
and being able to just think and bounce ideas off
someone equally interested in schemes to save the world. For

(02:31:38):
weeks on end. I came to see the way the
Bay Area compressed this style of thought away be shortening
runway via artificially high housing prices is something that was
crucial to escape for anyone who wanted to actually try
to save the world, who wouldn't accept a ninety percent

(02:32:00):
probability of doom, who knew the game had to change somehow.

Speaker 2 (02:32:09):
At this point, I'll I'll take the ninety percent doom.
Sounds like a reasonable alternative, kind of like choosing to
sit in the smoking section of a plane in the eighties,
Like it's awful, but at least you know what you're
in for. Maybe maybe you'll get to sit next to Spiccoli.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:32:27):
I like how she.

Speaker 3 (02:32:28):
Said, like I'm gonna use this term to think, but
you are on a boat, smoking weed, just chilling on
a boat in a bay, all right, and you wanna
be like this is my thinking time.

Speaker 2 (02:32:40):
Something tells me that she took Blues Clues very literally.

Speaker 9 (02:32:48):
Okay, girl, Okay, So she continues to say, I had
come away from Waiss convinced I needed to learn so
many things to sort my thinking and planning in so
many ways, and trying to squeeze this in but.

Speaker 1 (02:33:04):
Never having the time and job application hell had displaced it.
The Bay Area was the problem, but that was where
all the rationalists were, and historically talking to them had
been extremely important. Hopefully at some point I'd be a
programmer with money to spare the time kept going by.

Speaker 2 (02:33:27):
What So the Bay Area was the problem, the rationalists
are there, Therefore the rationalists are the problem.

Speaker 1 (02:33:42):
I meant, I would say, to some extent the rationalists.
I know that the industry is there, but they're all
insisting on living and like one of the highest priced
housing markets in the country. So yeah, it's a problem,
but it's a foreseeable problem, especially for a group of

(02:34:04):
smart people.

Speaker 3 (02:34:05):
But it is a farcial problem. And I don't know
this to be true because I haven't looked it up yet,
but I'm certainly going to. So this is just me speculating.
I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but I am very
curious to see who owns these properties that a lot
of these rationalists who are moving to San Francisco live
in I'm very curious who the owners of these properties

(02:34:25):
are because I know, just putting that out.

Speaker 1 (02:34:30):
There, I bet they smell really bad.

Speaker 2 (02:34:32):
All right, So M quote Jasper Gwen had a sort
of continual ontology generation thing going on. They called them
ontologies of the week because they were to be tried
on and usually discarded. They had enormous trouble writing excuse

(02:34:53):
me their thoughts down, They said, all of their best
thoughts were illegible. They would try and leave breadcrumbs for
themselves to reload the context, but writing incautiously subtly, but
subtly but actively damaged the process. They had lost friends

(02:35:14):
from psychological inability to write emails, like they stopped trusting
someone as soon as they stopped seeing them in person regularly.
They said they experienced discontent, discontinuities, discontinuities in personal identity
they figuratively called reincarnations. I don't know what I read,

(02:35:40):
so like.

Speaker 3 (02:35:41):
I understand that for people, you know, apparently this says
that Gwen has autism and from reading when stuff. I
don't think Zez is making that up in any way,
shape or form. And you know, so those come with
social struggles for those kinds of people and writing stuff down.

(02:36:02):
But I almost also kind of wonder if SIS is
a little bit like, oh, I'm not going to include
any of Gwynn's actually good ideas so I can like
claim them as my own later, or you know, like
it's just it's just very interesting how she or is

(02:36:23):
that because guess what, Gwynn has her own blog, all right,
So Gwynn can write things, all right, And I don't
think her blog is necessarily like quite honestly, I don't
think it's as incoherent as this. I mean, it's still
it's still out there you guys, like I'm not. But
it's just again really says okay girl, Okay, you say so,

(02:36:50):
but okay, all right, so and this is our last
paragraph for tonight for the blog. Okay, so this is
what we're gonna end on with tonight. Quote. While motoring back,
they were asking me about fusion, which they said they

(02:37:10):
still hadn't been able to do. I was basically stumped.
I asked them to give an example of internal conflict.
They said, adventure versus comfort. They mentioned putting themselves through
this comfort, like exposing themselves to cold to enter a
more adventurous mindset there they would do more adventurous things.

(02:37:34):
I said, don't do that, it's internal violence. I might
have also said something about a state of being where
you just fix bugs without worrying if they were bugs,
fixing bugs because you know you could fix the next
one when they were exposed. That there was some sort

(02:37:57):
of some self fulfilling prophecy see nature to whether you
were in this seat or not, they said that helped,
did it? Because I don't know what the fuck you
just said is? How did that help? And anyone in
any sort of freaking way, what.

Speaker 1 (02:38:19):
What it's like?

Speaker 2 (02:38:23):
You know, this whole like adventure v comfort thing, Like
I get that that that could be very much a
a in internal conflict which could be violent. Sure, But
like then they go on to explain, like putting myself
in cold to then feel like I can be adventurous. No, no,
just go hike the Himalayas. That's adventurous and cold, like

(02:38:44):
just double scoopid MULTITASKT why are we making this so difficult?

Speaker 10 (02:38:51):
I don't understand the internal violence part right, because like
I saw, I suffer from like a lot of anxiety
and special social especially social anxiety, and like there's the
whole like putting yourself in the situation to like exposure therapy,
right to like get over that.

Speaker 3 (02:39:10):
And I think that's what Ziz or I'm sorry Gwen
is trying to be like, yeah, like I'm trying to
expose myself to this to get out of this, you know,
because again she she is also autistic, like that's a
big problem they have with living in their own little
bubble and not wanting to get out of that, you know.
And then Zis is like, no, how dare you try

(02:39:33):
to expand your horizons or try to overcome these things?
How dare you do that? You know how bad you're
being to yourself. You're not being truthful? Like who the
fuck are you to say that, Ziz, Yeah, it's exactly that.
Oh and then she ends it. She ends it with

(02:39:54):
they said that helped girl. So done with you. I'm
so done with her. So you guys, that brings us
to the conclusion where we're going to start. Yes, that

(02:40:15):
emoji is everything we are all like right now, like
what did they even just say? So that's where we're
going to stop tonight. This is about halfway through this
blog post. Okay, because again Ziz uses all of the words.

(02:40:35):
So I think this is a good stopping point tonight
because we've been with a very long time. There's our
family full house photo there. So good news is is
that we don't have any updates to our group a
cheat sheet for tonight with all the people, we don't
have any updates. This is the only episode, unfortunately where

(02:41:00):
I can say that because things are not going to
get any better from here. You guys, you know, we
chose to have fun tonight because there isn't you know,
anyone dying tonight or being harmed in any way. So
we just really wanted to have fun tonight while we
still can because it is not going well after now.

(02:41:22):
So JT, what are your your closing thoughts for tonight?
With what we've heard? What do you what do you
got going on here?

Speaker 2 (02:41:30):
I mean, without a doubt, this is one of the
strangest origin stories of Occult Leader that's ever been documented.
We're still not finished with it. We've got a highly
intelligent but socially inept protagonist, barad of questionable housing arrangements,

(02:41:50):
a deep seated victim complex, and just the right amount
of grandiosity to turn every day in convenience into moral
crusades that she never even carries through with. Yes, Ziz
so much thinks she's playing chess while we're playing checkers,
but she's not. She's flipping the board and then she's

(02:42:11):
declaring herself the only one who understands the game and
then blaming the pieces for not moving the way she wants.
I mean, sure, it's easy to laugh at the absurdity
of it all because it is just that. But but,
but it's also terrifying, Like these aren't just journal entries

(02:42:31):
from someone with too much time on her hands and
not enough perspective. This is the foundational philosophy of someone
who would go on to justify violence in the name
of some grand, self assigned mission. And it all started
with dog shit on the floor and a man masturbating
on a couch in front of a big screen TV.

Speaker 3 (02:42:55):
I mean, I did tell you, guys at the beginning,
it all started over asking for it in advance, you guys,
you got all of that from that.

Speaker 1 (02:43:11):
Honestly, talking about this with y'all tonight, I've read these
posts before, but it's the thing about hearing it out loud.
Some of the things that Ziz writes about Gwen m
h and and I think it's the thing I already
kind of thought is Zizz is going to be finding

(02:43:34):
people that she can manipulate for one reason or another,
and I'm concerned where we are now. I'm worried for
Gwen because some of these asides that Ziz is saying,
if they are true, I feel like could be signed
signs of a deeper mental situation that is being untreated.

(02:43:56):
I don't know that, but just there's multiple calms about,
you know, not being able to understand her emotions, not
being able to understand being alive, reincarnations, just things that
like could just be young people having deep conversations on
a boat, because we know that's happening, but I just were,

(02:44:20):
you know, I'm kind of worried. It seems like she's
found somebody who could potentially be struggling already broke them
down in this roommate conflict where she forced her hand
when one might have tried to establish boundaries with her,
and that set her off. So I'm curious to see

(02:44:41):
where that goes next week, because I know we're going
to be seeing these two again. As far as my
thoughts on Ziz at the moment, other than me thinking
she's probably taking advantage of people. I think Ziz thinks
she's the smartest person in any room.

Speaker 3 (02:44:58):
Oh boy.

Speaker 1 (02:44:58):
She thinks she can save the world, but she can't
even use spell check, and I think, like plenty of
ambitious and delusional people do, she blames others for her
own issues. She can't get a job because she isn't
fake enough, she can't get a house because everyone else
is fake. She acts like she's looking for empathetic souls,

(02:45:22):
but it just, like I said, really seems like she's
just praying on people that she thinks she can manipulate.

Speaker 3 (02:45:29):
Yeah, she may see.

Speaker 1 (02:45:31):
Herself as an end Bringer or a Darth Maul type,
but at this point she seems more like any of
the kids on a very special episode of Full House,
precocious and likely to learn a lesson soon.

Speaker 2 (02:45:47):
Yes, yes, some real background music at the end.

Speaker 3 (02:45:54):
I agree, you know I have. I'm still undecided. After
I time, I'm still undersctided on my feelings with them
about Gwinn. I think after the next episode, as they
process it more, I might have more of a feeling
about that. But I do very much believe that Ziz

(02:46:14):
has sought Gwynn out purposely. I know, we laughed about
a lot about the things that Gwenn had to say
according to this. Again, this is according to SiZ, so
it's not entire relatable reliable, but I do feel like,
clearly we have seen that. You know, Gwenn has some

(02:46:35):
difficulties here, right, she has ADHD, she has autism, you know,
but at the same time, she has stuck going forward.
She lives on her own boat, you know, she's trying
to make a life for herself. And then Ziz just
comes out of fucking nowhere, you guys, and I'm going
to let you know it doesn't turn out great, okay,
because again here we are with Ziz with another room.

(02:46:55):
How do you think you know? Because that's why I
wanted to bring up the earlier stories. Like, I don't know,
maybe some of you are bored or not, I don't know,
But the reason I wanted to tell these earlier stories
is because you are going to see this exact behavior
with other people. Right, So the relationship you saw with

(02:47:16):
Ziz and the roommate Michael, you're gonna see playing into
other relationships where she's manipulating and triangulating and all of
these things. You know, and that's why I really wanted
to talk about it tonight, because it's not very often
that you get to hear from like a cult leader's

(02:47:38):
own words, what they're thinking and what they're saying. You know,
right now, Ziz is in jail. Okay, she's locked up.
She has no bond for reasons. I mean, you guys,
the next two episodes are gonna be wild when you
find out what Ziz does next. But I forget where

(02:48:02):
I was I was going with with that. Either way,
it doesn't matter. I think tonight really shows that Gwynn
or I'm sorry, Ziz doesn't get along with people, well
at all, no them, Yeah, she one has to respect

(02:48:29):
them to get along with them. Well, you're gonna hear
from other people as well that encounters this. You know
a lot of people say, oh, cult leaders are very charismatic.
Guess what, literally nobody has that to say about Ziz. Okay, nobody,
nobody has to say that this is a charamatic, charismatic
leader whatsoever. You know, I think she just manipulated people,

(02:48:55):
got into their brains and took advantage of situations. You notice,
nothing's wrong about Zizz right, Like, she doesn't have any
any difficulties or setbacks, because lord no, she'd tell you
about them right, like she would let you know if

(02:49:15):
there was something else going on with her, like there is,
gwyn But I hope you enjoyed tonight's episode, you guys.
I know it's a little bit different than our normal
where we cover all the facts and this is our
interpretation of this is reading. But again, I hope you
enjoyed the ride and an insight into that. So our

(02:49:36):
next episode we will be finishing reading the rest of
this blog goes Byziz. The next episode will not be
as long as this one. I do apologize about the length,
but like at this point in the show, you realized
why we had to tell it, so you're here, there's
so much more. We're going to meet some new members,

(02:49:57):
because how do you guys think this handles new piece
people coming into her and Gwinn's friendship. Do you guys
think that goes well? I don't think it does. We're
also going to finally explore what they mean by mental tech,

(02:50:17):
you guys. I don't even know how to explain this
like a normal person to because and then we're going
to cover Zi and Gwynn their attempt to solve the
San Francisco rent problem by forming a rationalist community that
lives on boats that they call the Rationalist Fleets aka

(02:50:44):
the Rat Fleets, and it goes about as well as
you think it's gonna go. You, guys, we're still dealing
with us in twenty twenty five, but you don't want
to miss it. Also, if anyone watching happens to know
any of these people or was part of the group themselves,
we welcome you to reach out to me at Tara

(02:51:05):
at tcwtmedia dot com and we would love to have
you on the show and hear your story. If I'm wrong,
please and you're part of this, email me let me know.
I have no problem being like, oh that wasn't right,
and go in. If you're out there, I really want
to talk to you. I'd be quite honest now if
you happen to have any information. But after that, hey,

(02:51:27):
we're both afternoon girls for coffee. Me too, girl of
me too. We can be frenzies. Now. If you haven't
had any information about any of the criminal acts that
anybody does in any of these episodes, please call the
FBI R not me. I do want to know those details.
But I also don't want to talk to.

Speaker 1 (02:51:47):
That you so.

Speaker 2 (02:51:50):
You have people who can look those up. Yeah, right,
and like if if you like what you've heard tonight,
hit that like button share the video to ease the
YouTube gods, be sure to subscribe and hit the notification
bell because you don't want to miss when we go
live on this. We're gonna be back this Thursday at
nine nine Eastern. We're gonna be covering the twisted Tale

(02:52:12):
of Uloma Courrey Walker, and we will be back here
next Sunday, March twenty third, at nine to continue the
Tale of the Zizzians.

Speaker 3 (02:52:24):
Ooh, you guys don't want to miss it. You guys
don't want to miss it. It gets crazy er crazy er. Well,
on that note, let's sign off for tonight. Cavin, you're
new here, what sign off do you have for us?

Speaker 1 (02:52:38):
Oh? I want to thank everybody for watching. It's really
excited to see some of the people pop into chat,
even though I couldn't figure out how to chat with
them and do the things I need to do. Also, Terry,
please feel better soon, because you're a million times better
than I am at this. And to quote Ghostbusters, keep fit,

(02:53:00):
stay sharp, and make good decisions.

Speaker 3 (02:53:03):
Yeah, everybody leave all the good comments on how great
of a job cappened to tonight. This is our first
time on any of our shows. I think she did
freaking fantastic. I hope she comes back again to discuss
Zizzi and somewhere because I loved her insights so much.
She did a great job. Thank you for that, Terry.
We do hope you feel better. Until next Sunday, you guys,

(02:53:27):
thank you all for being here, and until next time,
go forth and be amazing. Fingerhearts in the chat for me.

Speaker 2 (02:53:36):
Yes, Harry, please feel better. We can't both be sick
at the same time. It has to be one or
the other. But thanks for tuning in. Everybody, please please
please take care of yourselves, your friends, your family, and
your community. Do not let anybody, not even zizz Doll
that's part. And shine on, Shine on you crazy diamonds.

(02:54:01):
We will see you again on Thursday. Prepare everybodularity by
prepared m.

Speaker 1 (02:54:14):
M M

Speaker 6 (02:54:17):
M

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S5 Bonus Zizan Cult Unveiled The Early Days of the Zizians - In Her Own Words - Ep 2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S5 Bonus Zizan Cult Unveiled The Early Days of the Zizians - In Her Own Words - Ep 2