From Son to Father: A Raw Conversation on Child Development

The podcast episode delves into the profound complexities of fatherhood as David McClam engages in a heartfelt conversation with his son, DaVonte. The discussion opens with a poignant acknowledgment of mental health awareness, emphasizing the importance of recognizing one’s worth and the devastating impact of suicide. This sets a serious tone that resonates throughout the episode, as the duo navigates the challenges and triumphs of parenting across generations. DaVonte shares his personal experiences as a father, reflecting on how his upbringing shapes his parenting style today. He candidly discusses the lessons learned from his own childhood, especially the feelings of being misunderstood and the pressure to conform, which ultimately led him to make choices that placed him in difficult situations. The dialogue showcases how DaVonte’s role as a father to his three boys informs his understanding of what it means to offer love, support, and structure while also allowing for autonomy.

As the conversation progresses, the complexities of co-parenting emerge, particularly the struggles DaVonte faces in maintaining a positive relationship with his children amidst challenges with their mother. His commitment to shielding his children from negative perceptions of their mother highlights the lengths he is willing to go to protect their emotional well-being. The episode underscores the theme of communication within families, advocating for open dialogues that foster understanding and healing. David and DaVonte’s candid exchanges reflect not only their personal journey but also serve as a reminder of the universal challenges parents face, inviting listeners to reflect on their experiences and the essential bonds that define familial relationships.

Takeaways:

• DaVonte shares how becoming a father transformed his perspective on childhood experiences.
• The importance of being present in a child's early years cannot be overstated.
• Parenting is not a linear journey; each child requires a unique approach.
• Communication between parents and children is crucial for emotional development and understanding.
• DaVonte emphasizes the need for grace and understanding in the parent-child relationship.
• Childhood experiences shape our adult selves, making reflection and growth essential.

Chapters:

• 00:09 - Changing the Statistics on Suicide
• 05:21 - A Conversation on Fatherhood
• 12:25 - Navigating Parenthood and Divorce
• 21:40 - Navigating Parenting Challenges
• 29:26 - Navigating Middle School Challenges
• 37:47 - The Changing Landscape of Education
• 43:09 - The Challenges of Parenting Across Generations

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You are seen, you are worthy.
You are not alone.
The world loses one person tosuicide every 40 seconds.
Let's change the stats together.
We can say not suicide.
Not today.
Welcome to True Crime Authorsand Extraordinary People, the podcast

(00:26):
where we bring two passions together.
The show that gives newmeaning to the old adage truth is
stranger than fiction.
And reminding you that thereis an extraordinary person in all
of us, here is your host,David McLam.
What's going on, everybody?
Welcome to another episode ofTrue Crime Authors and Extraordinary
People.
Of course, I'm your man, David McLam.

(00:48):
Hey, if you guys haven'talready, make sure you follow me
on all of our social medias.
One link to a link tree willget you every place you need to go
pertaining to the show.
And as you heard coming in, ifyou are someone who is thinking about
hurting yourself or someoneelse, please leave this episode,

(01:10):
dial 988.
You greet them by voice or by text.
They will get you the helpthat you need.
And if no one else has toldyou this today, let me be the first
to tell you that I do care andwe do need you to be here.
Okay, before we jump into whattoday's episode is, I want to just

(01:32):
make a couple of comments.
First of all, if you're stillwith me, thank you.
I noticed that the lastepisode uploaded was October 13,
which should have been behindthe pages, the real politics of energy
and Ellie Stark's winner's curse.
There has been a lot of thingsthat has been going on which has
kept me away from thisparticular podcast.

(01:55):
This is not the episode ofgoing to that.
But I want you guys know thatI am coming back with another episode
and I'm going to tell youeverything that happens and what
we are doing with the rest ofthe show going forward.
I am also going to say this.
If people realize I haven'tuploaded in a while, sending me nasty
emails, especially if you aresomeone that's supposed to appear

(02:15):
on my show is not going tohelp you.
I think the professional thingto say is, is there anything going
on?
Or what's happening?
Are you okay?
Did you die?
Anything like that?
But I want this to be known,that podcasters are people too.
YouTube creators are people too.
TikTok creators are people too.

(02:37):
Any creator is also just aperson and we are not immune from
the trials and tribulations of life.
And sometimes things happen.
So stay tuned for that episode.
Before I introduce thisepisode, I will tell you that you
will get this episode.
That episode.
I'm going to tell you what isgoing on and probably in between

(02:59):
there.
I'm going to give you Sharon Verts.
She is an author of a bookthat just got newly released.
Her episodes should havealready dropped to you, but part
of the reason why I was gonefor a bit is probably the reason
why hers did not automatically drop.
So I just want to let you guysknow that.
So stay tuned for those sotoday's episode.

(03:21):
I am proud to be a part ofthis project.
I got a phone call from mymiddle son asking me to be a part
of this.
He needed to do his finalpaper or exam for his college course
that is coming up and it hadto be done podcast style.
And he wanted to talk aboutchild development and some other
things dealing with children.

(03:42):
We decided that we're going togive that to you here because it's
a conversation that we feellike everybody should hear.
But I think that there is somepower when your child comes back
and asks you to do this withhim and he wants to discuss child
development and raising, whichmeans we get into topics about his

(04:04):
upbringing in me.
I think it's powerful whenyour children can come to you and
say be a part of this, whenyou know that the discussion that
you're going to have can betough but can't be fulfilling because
you find yourself being honestwith each other about how you were
as a parent and how they were raised.

(04:24):
So a lot of that goes into this.
So sit back, get you a cup of coffee.
Maybe this will spark somemore conversations between the orders
and their children.
So without further ado, myguess is Devonte McClam, and this
is the interview that I hadwith him around child development

(04:45):
and upbringing.
So I hope you guys enjoy it.
Hey, devontae, welcome to theshow, bro.
Hey, glad to be here finally.
I know we've been talkingabout it for a while, so to finally
be on air on record, however,you'd say it is pretty exciting for
me as well.
Well, glad to have you.
Let me be the first to say, Iusually never give dates, but today

(05:05):
is a very important day.
Happy Veterans Day to you andto all the other veterans out there.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think just as much as everyother veteran out there.
I feel like I haven't doneenough to deserve that, but thank
you and I will enjoy my freedinner at Applebee's later.
So I think that this is a veryinteresting conversation that you
and I are about to havebecause now I'm talking to you not

(05:28):
only as my son, but I'mtalking to you as my son who is Now
a father.
And I think that there's somany things that you and I have been
through over the course ofyour childhood and raising that maybe
now you have a better grasp onor a different take on now that you
are a dad.
So tell us now, what is itlike to be a father?

(05:48):
It's kind of crazy.
I know it's.
It's hard to like summarize that.
That that's such a loaded question.
It's stressful.
It's.
It's rewarding.
It's me realizing the parts ofmyself that were absolutely treacherous
to deal with as a child anddealing with it all over again.

(06:11):
Me witnessing my oldest son docrazy, crazy stuff like face plant
off of a.
My.
Listen, my son Emmett, he got.
He was jumping onto the bed, right?
We had a mattress on the floor.
He was jumping onto hismattress as like a free like just
running and jumping into itlike fun.
Haha.

(06:31):
And at some point in thisprocess, he decided to get onto the
mattress and jump off of themattress onto the floor and just
face flat.
He just like free fell intothe floor.
And so yeah, that was likeseeing that kind of stuff happen.
Like I remember how I thoughtwhen I was a kid and I'm like, yeah,
I definitely would have done that.
I was climbing trees and doingcrazy stuff.

(06:51):
But yeah, it's.
It's a lot of things.
And I think most, most of allit's fashioned my mind in a way where
it's like what, what I'm doingwith my life needs to be something
that my kids can be proudtalking of or speaking about later
on.
Like my did, my dad did A, mydad did B and I kind of fashioned
my goals in life after that.

(07:12):
Well, first of all, I used toget yelled at because I used to do
stupid stuff with you and your brothers.
And y was little, you know,the whole Simba thing and throwing
you on the edge of my feet,you know, so you know, you get that
daredevil thing, you know,Honestly, at least my grandson does.
But as you probably know, theone important thing to me as being
a father was exactly what youjust said.

(07:33):
I wanted you guys knowing thatyou guys have been raised in the
age of technology to be ablethat if you ever heard my name in
public or googled it, that youguys came with a lot of things that
I did that was good.
I tried my best to live mylife as clean as possible because
I never wanted to pass on theembarrassment to you or your siblings
of saying, well, my dad was amurderer or my dad went to jail for

(07:56):
DUI or he went to jail for this.
Now that you are a dad and youdid bring that up, what importance
did that take on you when youhad your first child?
When I.
I think having Emmett was just a.
There was a lot going on in mylife personally when I had my first
baby boy.
And he.

(08:16):
Having.
Having him made me realize alot of difficulties from when I was
younger and, like, why certainthings had to happen the way that
they did and so on and so forth.
And it made me.
I think I called you at somepoint, like, apologized, but I think
the.
It just really, like, setthings in line for me as to.
As to, like, why it was thatcertain things were taking place.

(08:37):
So not so much as a.
I think up until me having myfirst child, I looked back on my
childhood and like, with you and.
And both my moms and, like,moving around and doing all this
other stuff, I looked at it,the whole thing as, like, negative.
And then I had my child, I'mlike, holy crap.
Like, this is a wholedifferent world.
And like, these choices made sense.

(08:59):
And so I was able to, like,overview everything that was going
on as an adult.
I was able to, like, kind ofclear up.
Clear up some stories that Ihad about you and my mom and my situation
and all that stuff and piece the.
Piece the ends together.
And having.
Having a child kind of forcedme to do that.

(09:19):
Kind of forced me to look backand just kind of clear some of those
things up and realize what wasactually happening and what was going
on.
And I know that that was areal Donald Trump way to answer that
question, but that's it.
They kind of lean into that alittle bit for the audience.
I know that you're talkingabout divorce, and divorce can sometimes

(09:40):
be very ugly.
The divorce I had with yourmom was not pretty because the things
that she did say about me,that was not true.
And I did try my best as a dadnever to speak negative about her
in front of you guys when youwere younger.
Sometimes that's very hard,and sometimes as parents, we can
be very petty because it turnsinto a situation of, well, if you

(10:04):
gonna say this to me, then I'mgonna do what I can to get to you.
And it's not the best way tohandle that.
Now that you're kind of goingthrough that yourself, what is your
overall feeling and where doyou feel like you need to be for
the care of Emmett at this point?
It's hard.
So Emmett and Elijah are bothin my now ex wife's Custody, primarily.

(10:28):
And it's difficult becauseit's very difficult for me to.
And stuff that I didn'tunderstand when I was a kid, like,
going through it.
It's very difficult for me tohold that image, like to not complain
about her around them or tonot call out what she's doing as
what it is in front of them.

(10:49):
It's very important to me notto, like, tarnish their image of
their mother.
And it sucks to know that it's not.
It's not her priority to dothe same.
I know that they're hearingnegative things about me, about my
intentions, whether they betrue or not.
And nine times out of 10, whatI'm hearing is not true, absolutely
not true.
And I can't come.
I can't combat it.

(11:10):
It's like they'll come overand they'll say something that I
know is out of bad taste and I can't.
I can't properly defend myself.
And that's the part that hurtsme the most, is that I can't explain
to them because if I explainto them, it's going to bring out
that negative side of me thatdoesn't like their mother in a lot
of ways.
And I don't want them to seethat because there's already so much

(11:34):
disdain between the two of us.
And I don't want that to bleedover into their relationship as well.
So I've got to talk nice abouther boyfriend, I've got to talk nice
about them spending time withher boyfriend and talk nice about
her and my experiences with her.
I keep all of the photos of usfrom when we were together so that
they can see images of us whenwe're at.

(11:57):
When we were at our happiest.
And I felt like stuff likethat is important to me, whereas
it seemed in a lot of waysthat she's trying to almost delete
me from their lives.
And there's no images of mearound their house.
And they don't.
Outside of me meeting up withthem, they don't discuss or talk
about me much at all.
And that's difficult to know,seeing as how I've shaped almost

(12:18):
my entire life to be a gooddad and do do good things as a father.
And it's kind of stinted orI'm not able to do that in some ways
because of the fact that Ihave a mutual disagreement with another
woman.
Now, I will say this.
So people say he doesn't evenknow the name is on grandkids.

(12:41):
I let you break their namesbecause you are the Father if you
feel comfortable with theirnames being on air.
So I do have three grand boysby devontae, Emmett, Elijah, and
if he wants to name his thirdone, I will let him do that.
And then we have all the names broken.
So now that you have had mythird grandbaby, now before we jump
into some aspects of care anddevelopment for the children, how

(13:07):
has the things you wentthrough now with Emmett and Elijah
shaped the way that you'reraising him and also shaped your
current relationship?
In my entire experience,having my first two boys has shaped
my entire, like, life, mygoals, my objectives, and what I'm
like shooting for is allalmost entirely chilling.

(13:29):
Because of the fact that I hadEmmett and Elijah, I'm making sure
that I'm present in or as muchas I possibly can be for Sage, even
though I'm trying to do, youknow, grand things with my life.
And I feel guilty in some waysbecause I can't do that for my older
two.
But I'm just holding on tohope that, you know, down the line

(13:51):
when things, you know, levelout and we both mature to a.
To a level to where we cancommunicate on a regular basis and
work out parenting or coparenting, I'm just kind of holding
on to, you know, I'll besuccessful at that point, hopefully
and able to provide enough towhere I can be present in their lives

(14:13):
at that time as opposed toright now when I can't be.
It's, it's.
It shaped me as a parentbecause it's.
Let me know the things likethe earlier.
For Emmett, I wasn't all ableto be present a lot for his first
two years of life because Iwas in the military and deploying.
And for Elijah, I wasn't ableto be there for him at all.

(14:35):
I didn't even.
I saw Elijah a few hours afterhe was born for maybe 30 minutes.
I think it was longer than that.
But I saw him the day that hewas born.
And then I saw him once beforeI moved when he was a few months.
And after that I didn't seehim until he was 2.

(14:55):
So seeing the differencebetween Emmett's connection to me
and Elijah's connection to mehas made like, made it painfully
obvious how detrimental thosefirst couple of years are.
And so being here for Sage,he's almost one now.
Being here for Sage, his firstcouple years of life is very important
to me and the rest of his lifecarrying forward.

(15:17):
But that's where that, thatguilt kind of comes from, that I'm
not able to do that.
For them now.
So it's kind of.
And it's not.
It's not.
I'm not able to do it for them.
And it's something that'scompletely within human control.
Like, we can just agree towork together for the sake of being
parents, but we are unable todo that.
Whereas before with Emmett andElijah, a lot of it was because I

(15:38):
was deploying.
It's very interesting thatyour life and mine has crossed that
path.
And that's the very path thatI was trying to avoid for you, because
I went through exactly thesame thing with the fact that, okay,
so you and DeAndre did get thebenefit of being raised by me for.
By.
By me for a number of years,actually moved with me and lived

(16:01):
with me in home.
But when it came to the girls,a Genevan breed, they didn't have
that experience.
I had to wait until Geneva was18 to contact her and to have a relationship
because of the way things wentwith her mother.
And then Bri.
Basically the same thing withGeneva, a little bit different because
I had her at 19.

(16:21):
There's a lot of differentlaws back then in the 90s, her mom
was 16 and her grandmotherthat I thought was trying to keep
us apart.
And I've always had that guiltas well, because now, as you know,
Jacob and Madison has livedwith me their whole entire life.
They've had the benefit of me,they've had the benefit of my support.
And even though you andDeAndre had the most of that, besides

(16:45):
those two, I still always feltguilty because I felt like there
was things that I couldn'tgive to you because of the circumstances.
And no matter how hard I triedto make it work out, I had to come
to the realization, which wasvery hard to do as a dad.
And I don't know if we everhad this discussion.
I already told you this.
I'll tell you this now, whichwas when was the appropriate time
for your benefit and for yourhealth care and well being.

(17:09):
For me to say, this is justnot going to work out and it's going
to be best for me and your momto separate and for me to try to
raise you that direction.
We know how that went.
You know, we became a tit for tat.
But know that as your dad, that's.
And I know you know this, too,that's a very hard situation.
And no matter how much we sitdown and talk to you guys about it

(17:30):
and say, this is not how it'ssupposed to be, I just think as a
dad, that's guilt.
That we always will carrybecause we feel like even though
we have no favorites, I feellike two of my kids is more favorited
than you guys just because oftheir current situation in the time
they've had with me.
No, that's fair.
And it makes a lot of sense, Ithink with the pain that I've gone

(17:51):
through in the past with mypersonal situation and knowing how
I came up and the difficultiesand like that knowing when and where
to say things has kind of keptme in, through bad times in my relationship
currently.
Like me being.
Me being willing to staythrough and figure things out because

(18:13):
my partner is extremelyunderstanding and she.
It just takes sitting down andhaving a conversation with her and
she's willing to changewhatever she needs to change as long
as it's within reason.
And we have discussions andconversations about like, as soon
as like major life switchescome, we got a quick adjust and move
on with that.
But there's been a fewproblems, some in which I've called

(18:33):
and talked to you, I've calledand talked to mom about where it's
like, this is, you know, thismight be tough to get past and a
previous version of myselfmight have been scared or might have
wanted to run away and ratherthan deal with the issue.
Um, but having kids and notwanting to have that conversation
where I'm like, hey, you know,you're going to be without a dad

(18:54):
for the majority of your lifehas made me or helped me to realize
that, like, there's not a lotof problems that are worth leaving
your kid for, you know.
So we're getting to a littlebit of childcare because I think
there's a lot of things thatdoes go into childcare.
I think rearing the child andwhat you do with the child at home
begins that as children.

(19:16):
And I know you had a lot of them.
I was probably the most hatedman because of some of the things
I made you do.
No child likes to clean.
No child likes to make their bed.
And your child care now, whatparts of your upbringing for me have
you used with your three boys?
What did you find beneficialas you became a man and a father?
I feel like with all three ofmy kids, I just, I don't know what,

(19:40):
I don't really know exactlywhat the reason why, but I don't
remember a lot of anythinguntil after like six or eight years
old.
Like, I have like touch and gomemories of when I was younger, but
I don't really, outside ofwhere I was, the fact that I live
there in general and like IHad to do stuff outside, like just
a general, like going to dochores or the dog run or dishes or

(20:03):
whatever.
I can't really recall specificmemories with their ages.
Like, I remember the firsttime I had Johnny Marzetti, and I
hated it.
And then a couple years later,I loved it.
I remember you cookingspaghetti and your.
Your scalloped potatoes allthe time.
But I don't particularlyremember, like, the ages of which

(20:24):
I enjoyed those things.
You know what I mean?
So it's hard for me to sayright now because Emmett is 5.
I don't remember much prior tome being 5.
But I can say that with Emmett.
I am.
I do the same thing as you did.
I'm very rough with him, buthe's a little daredevil, and he does

(20:44):
all kinds of crazy stuff, buthe's the one that I'll, like, throw
through the air and.
And do crazy stuff with.
Elijah is definitely moreemotional and soft.
And that's hard for me toadjust to sometimes because it's
like I go from throwing Emmettacross the room and come back to
Elijah, who just wants to sitand cuddle.

(21:05):
And Sage is going to be alittle firecracker too.
But to say, like, the outsideof the realizations that I've made
about, like, the reasons whysome choices needed to be made when
I was a child as a.
As far as, like, discussionsabout my mom and, like, what's actually
going on and me not being oldenough to understand those things,
I don't see.

(21:25):
I don't think right nowthere's a ton that I replicate, but
I think the ages for me to bereplicating parenting behavior are
probably around the age oflike, 10.
So how is it was gets to thepart of development?
How is it that you feel thatyou're doing managing three different

(21:46):
boys with three different personalities?
Because I feel like that youand Jacob has the same personality.
So all the time we run around,we say, we've already raised devonte
one.
I don't need to raise devonte light.
But he has, like, the samesense of humor, the same sarcastic
comebacks.
He likes to do the exact same things.
Do you feel like your boysmimic each other in any ways?

(22:08):
And how do you manage thethree different personalities?
I don't.
I don't think any of my boysmimic each other, to be honest with
you.
I think Sage and I'm sorry,Emmett and Elijah, who live with
each other constantly, justpiss each other off.
Like, it's hilarious.
Like, Emmett has the bigbrother complex where it's like,
Anytime Elijah is hurt or he'sin, you know, otherwise incapacitated

(22:31):
a lot, Emmett gets, like, thecaregiver or, like, the caretaker
mentality where he's got to,like, figure out what's wrong and,
like, comfort and hug and soon and so forth.
Elijah just lives and existsto piss Emmett off.
And that's just how it goes.
If Emmett's asleep, Elijah's wak.
If Emmett's playing a game,Elijah is taking the controller from

(22:53):
his hand.
As long as Emmett is happy,Elijah is trying to thwart that process
in some way, shape, or form.
So as of right now, I don'tthink they mimic each other.
As far as, like, me and Jacobbeing the same, I think it's interesting
because I see it and I alsosee, like, from me, like, as a.

(23:14):
As an adult where I'm moredeveloped than I was at that age.
I see the ignorance and I seethe ego and I see the.
The, like, him being bombasticand, like, thinking he's smarter
than he is.
Because that's all I did whenI was a kid.
And I'm not a dumb person byany means, but I don't know everything.
And I think I just.

(23:36):
As a child, I heard.
I would hear.
I would hear, like.
I don't know how to explain this.
I would hear, like, thingsthat were more adult from friends
or out in the.
Out in the world or whateverthe case is, whether that be, like,
the birds and the bees or thatbe, like, how females looked or,

(23:56):
like, underneath their clothesor, like, stuff that would be considered
inappropriate.
Right?
And I would hear those things,and I would develop an opinion myself
based on the facts that Iheard from these other people.
And I would, like, keep thatsecret to myself.
And I would just feel smarterbecause I know it, you know, and
then when it comes up in anargument or a conversation, I could

(24:17):
just, like, slap that on andbe like, well, I know this.
And it would surprise people.
And I acted off of their.
Their surprise nature.
Like, they, like.
I wasn't.
I don't particularly thinkthat I was very smart as a child,
comparatively to other children.
I think I was very sociallyaware and I could play off of people's
emotions.
And that is not intelligence.

(24:40):
I think that intelligence isthe ability to adapt to any environment.
And the way that I thoughtwhen I was a child kept me in an
environment.
And I think that's kind ofwhat Jacob's doing right now.
And when he came out andvisited me, that was kind of what
I was trying to.
I was seeing.
But I couldn't get.
I.
I was so, like, hyperaggressive about him changing the

(25:02):
way that he was thinking.
And, like, this is wrong.
Like, this is not how youshould be moving forward.
But it's a process.
You know, it took me 10 yearsto figure out that I'm not special,
essentially.
Like, I.
I have.
I have traits that are moredefined than other people, and I
take advantage of those traits.
And, you know, hopefully thatleads me to a good career and, you

(25:24):
know, making some money that Ican support a family with or support
my family with later on in life.
But I'm not.
I'm not Einstein.
You know, when I was a kid, Ioperated like I was king shit.
Excuse me.
But I think a lot of that toois that you and Jacob is very smart,

(25:46):
especially intellectually.
You know, I mean, if we lookat it, we got calls from schools
that says, I can't teachdevonte because he's already three
steps ahead of what his class is.
Jacob is in the same boat.
He walked into kindergartenputting words and sentences that
he should have never knowwhere it went to.
And I think instead of schoolnurturing that, it takes two people

(26:06):
to do that.
It takes us as the parents andit takes the schools because we're
trying to humble you bysaying, okay, yeah, you got all this
smarts, you know what you'retalking about, but you don't know
everything.
And don't make the next kidfeel like he or she's underneath
you because of that.
Where the school is like, oh,no, you're like the smartest kid
in the class and everybodyshould look at you.
And I think that that kind ofhurt too, especially when they start

(26:27):
doing things like, we're goingto pull you, we're going to send
you to college courses.
And then when the behaviorproblems start because you're not
nurturing, you're nurturingthe child on the intellectual side,
but you're not showing thatchild how to handle that on the behavioral
side.
We were doing that at home,but it wasn't happening at school.
And then when the problemscame, nobody knew how to handle that.

(26:50):
So I think that's part of whathappened there.
My question to you, based onthat, with school and everything,
what is development for yourthree sons like, to you?
What kind of things are youimplementing and you would like to
see in that.
I think it's.
It's.
It's difficult to hear or to.
To hear your side of where Iwas coming or like, what my teachers
were saying to you when I wasa kid, because I'M thinking back

(27:13):
on those times.
Like, I remember the day thatthe teacher.
I took some sort of test, likereading comprehension test, and the
teacher called you and thencame back to me to let me know that
they called you.
And then later on we had aconversation about them saying that
I can't be taught and so onand so forth.
I think it's so dangerous.
It's so dangerous because youput me and not you, but I'm put as

(27:35):
a child in a predicament whereI'm special and I'm outcasted from
the people that I am in classwith or I am equal to age wise.
And then you put me in theseprograms that accelerate me, that
put me into another group ofpeople who are older than me and
I not like them.

(27:56):
Like, they, they are moredeveloped than I am, they're bigger
than I am.
And so now I spend, you know,I'm a runt and I'm like, I'm not
seeing.
I'm just some nerd.
And I know that, like, I knowthat schooling and society is different
nowadays.
So it's not quite the same asit was back then, before technology,
before COVID so on and so forth.
But for me, that was reallyhard because now not only did I feel

(28:21):
unwelcome in the space or inthe classes where I'm supposed to
feel welcome because all theseteachers are saying I'm on te teachable,
but now I feel unwelcome tothe classes where I'm advanced and
I'm.
I'm supposed to be quoteunquote, because that's where I'm.
My, like, mental level is.
And they're all, you know, youknow, two or three years older than

(28:41):
I am.
So there's no one that I feelconnected to.
I don't feel like I can lookat somebody as a peer.
I'm either above or below somebody.
And that leads to situationswhere I get bullied for being a nerd
or I get beat up for so on andso forth or whatever the case is.
Like, I know that so on and soforth and whatever the case is are
words that I say a lot.

(29:02):
And I need to move away from that.
But anyway.
But yeah, so reflecting onthat, I think that was difficult
in the early stages because Ithink that started hurt.
That started happening aroundthe time I was in like fifth or sixth
grade.
And you're.
I'm coming into probably oneof the most developmentally important

(29:23):
stages of my life, which ismiddle school.
And I don't feel like I belong anywhere.
And so that kind of directlycontributed to me being deviant,
me going out and, you know,causing chaos and getting into fights,
and 90% of the time losingthem and getting in trouble and getting
expelled.
I was.
I don't remember how manyschools I've been expelled and suspended

(29:45):
for from just because thesecond I tried to apply myself, as
soon as I tried to be smartand, like, do the things that you
were telling me at home that Ineeded to do, which is get good grades
and.
And focus in school, as soonas I applied myself and did that,
I became different.
So the only way for me to bethe same was to be included with

(30:06):
a group of people.
And the easiest group ofpeople to be included with were the
misfits.
And so I go and I do somethingcrazy, and then I can go back and
I can talk about it with mybuddies or like when I.
There was a.
Not guidance, but when I.
Los Angeles, Henry Clay MiddleSchool, there was a scenario.
Like, I was in my first weekat Henry Clay.

(30:27):
I walked in to my class, satdown at the desk right inside the
door, and a kid came by withthe teacher in the classroom.
Kid came by, looked directlyat me and slapped me in the face.
And I just, like, I was like, shook.
And I didn't do anythingbecause I was a small kid.
I didn't.
Contrary to what, you know,how heavy and, like, large I am now,

(30:47):
I wasn't like that back then.
And so he slapped me in theface, just trying to get, like, a
rise out of me.
And I didn't do anything.
And he sat there, stared at mefor like three minutes.
And he's like, you must.
You must take angermanagement, huh?
I was like, no.
And he moved on.
And I like, that was my firstday in middle school.
And I just got like, made tobe somebody's, like, lesser immediately.

(31:09):
So how do I combat that?
I go and get straight A's,like, how.
How am I socially going torecover from that?
So that.
That was a difficult period oftime because it's like what I was
supposed to do was going tomake me unpopular, was going to get
me beat up.
And what I wasn't supposed todo was going to get me in trouble
at home, is going to get mekicked out of school.
So it didn't feel like therewere a lot of options.
But anyway, to answer yoursecond question, how that shapes

(31:31):
my children, like, the lessonsthat I'm trying to put onto them
is that I don't really.
There's structure.
So there's.
You Cross a line and you'regoing to know that you cross the
line.
Like, if you talk back, if youdisrespect, if you do something like
that.
Like, I'm, like, you're goingto know and I'm going to sit down
with you and I talk to you and I.
And I like, if he cries, I give.

(31:51):
Or I'm talking about Emmett,primarily because he's the most developed
of the three of them.
But Emmett has situationswhere he doesn't.
He gets locked up, he doesn'tknow what to do, and he just freezes.
And he'll cry because he'soverwhelmed with thought of, like,
what to do.
And I'll sit down with them.
And I say, like, so do you.
I say, do you want to cry fora little bit or do you want to get

(32:12):
better?
And he like, I.
He did this at Jiu Jitsu one.
One week.
And I said, area.
He said that he wanted to cry.
I said, okay, sit on the benchand I'll be right here.
And I just sat on the matwaiting for him.
I'll be right here when you'reready to get better.
And two minutes goes by andhe's like, okay, I'm ready.
And we sit down.
I'm like, all right.
Do you understand why this was frustrating?

(32:33):
Or like, I don't, like, put.
I don't point blame.
I also tell them that they cando whatever they want.
Like, something that bothersme is that in the school system,
he came.
He came home to me one day andhe said, my teacher said that I can't
tell her no.
And I said, you can.
You can do whatever you want.
You can say whatever you wantto these teachers.
You just have to be willing toaccept the consequences.

(32:54):
If you tell your teacher no,you're probably going to get kicked
out of class.
Do you want to get kicked outof class?
No.
Okay, then you probably shouldmake the decision to not tell your
teacher no.
And that's how I, like, usher them.
I usher them to make their own decisions.
And I think that is largely aresult of my childhood and me feeling

(33:14):
that way in school is that Ididn't feel like I had choices.
I didn't feel like I had decisions.
But for them to know thatevery decision is.
Or, I'm sorry, that at everypoint in their schooling or being
at home, whatever, at everypoint in life, they have a decision
and they have full power tomake it on their own.
They just have to be willingto accept the consequences.

(33:36):
And it hasn't gotten major yetwhere I'm like, if you want to.
If you want to go and rob agas station, go rob a gas station.
You've got to be willing toaccept that you're probably going
to jail.
Like you.
You know what I mean?
And that's a lot of people.
I haven't talked to manypeople about the way that I parent,
but I can imagine a lot ofpeople would have a problem with
that because they would seethat it's acceptable.

(33:57):
Like, they would say, likethey would consider it and potentially
do it.
But there's a lot of trouble Igot into when I was a kid.
And it wasn't about making a choice.
It was about.
I wanted to get away from oneaspect of things.
So I threw myself into a lifeof being a misfit.
And I felt like I had to meetthe requirements of being a misfit.
And I didn't really feel likeI had a choice.

(34:19):
I either got straight A's andgot beat up, or I was a misfit and
I was accepted.
And that was how it kind ofworked out for me.
The thing is that I will saytoo, about that piece is it wasn't
that we didn't try.
So there's a lot of thingsgoing in the background, you know,
that I'm pretty much what Icall the door kicker.
If you messing with my kids oranybody else, I'm coming.
And when we got that noticefrom the teacher, and she's like,

(34:42):
look, this is, you know, ninthgrade math, and this is college math.
And my number one questionwas, okay, what's your next step?
Because you're telling me youcan't teach him, but you were the
teacher.
Is it that you're unwilling toteach him because of the level he's
at or that you can't reach him?
And she says, well, I think heneeds to be in higher classes.

(35:02):
And then the question was,what does that do to him?
Right?
If you take a fifth or sixthgrader and you put him with the seventh
and eighth grader, he'salready the smaller kid.
He's already supposed to bethe kid that doesn't know as much.
But now you isolate him into that.
And then that's when they camewith the bright idea of, oh, no,
all of our gifted kids, theygo off and they tutor other kids,
and then they just go on fieldtrips all day to colleges and whatever.

(35:24):
And I'm like, okay, so what ishe learning?
That.
That he knows what college hewants to go to in the next five years.
That's Doing him no good.
But back then, Californiaschool system hasn't gotten any better.
It's more of, we don't, we'lllisten to the parent, but we won't
do what the parents say we'regonna do.
We think is better, but whenchaos ensues, it's the parents fault.

(35:47):
And that's exactly whathappened with you.
And now with Jacob.
It's.
He, now that he's in highschool, has found a teacher like
Madison did, like JohnCrocker, that actually cares about
his development.
And he sits down and talks tous and say, I don't think it's a
good idea to move him this way.
You never had that.
Because I was too busybattling the school systems.
And like every school you wentto, there was a problem.

(36:09):
And then as far as sayingstarted saying every problem couldn't
be my kid, which it wasn't.
As you know the story, I'vesat outside fences and the whole
nine.
And I do think in a lot ofways, because sometimes Beth and
I would sit down and look backover how you kids was raised and
we were like, if you look atthe way the school system is now
and the way it was withDevonte, it's gotten slightly worse

(36:30):
now, but we have a few moreteachers that give a damn where he
was just thrown into the wolves.
And nothing that we did otherthan going to pick him up and keeping
them at home worked.
I mean, like the one thingthat worked for Jacob that I thought
would have worked for you,they wouldn't let me do that back
then, which is I snatched himout of the school system for a whole
year and reformed him.

(36:52):
And I looked at the schoolboard and I said, I'm going to give
you back a different son.
Because Jacob was very aggressive.
He wanted to fight everybody.
He was getting beat up atschool and I was getting the calls.
Your son's beating everybody up.
I said, I'm going to take himout of the school.
I'm a homeschooling for one year.
I'm going to give you back adifferent child with a different
mindset.
If he comes back the same wayand screws and you screw him up,

(37:13):
that's your fault.
Well, that's exactly what happened.
We sent Jacob back a different person.
He didn't want to fight anymore.
He wanted to better himself.
He just wanted to go to school.
And he became very optimistic.
I'm like, I don't want to sendyou back to Palm Tree, but I don't
have a choice.
He goes, well, dad, we thinklet's, let's see what happens.
And then they messed him up.
So in child development,school is very important because

(37:35):
it helps us as parents to getyou educated.
And I hope you never felt likeI was telling you, get straight A's.
I've never wanted you guys toget straight A's, just to apply yourself.
And yes, I got angry sometimesbecause I'm like, man, you got this.
I know you can do better.
But now, as we talked aboutthis, as you being an adult, I could
understand and see the thingsthat I couldn't see before then.

(37:56):
It's a tough situation becauseeven now, I don't know, like, thinking
back on, like, scenarios thatI was in when I was a kid, there's
no way for you to understandthe full story.
And then you've gotta.
You're taking two different sides.
Like, you want to understand.
You also don't want me to belying to you.
You also don't want me to,like, be, like, trying to manipulate
you into doing something orsomething that's not allowed or whatever

(38:18):
the case is.
And it's like, you've got to.
You've got to be able to makethe right decision in within minutes
of hearing the situation, andit's damn near impossible.
You can.
You.
There's no way that you canhave all of the details in that short
a period of time.
The.
As far as, like, educationgoes, and this is funny because this,

(38:39):
this whole podcast is for, fora class that I'm taking in school
right now.
But as far as education goes,I think it's the biggest scam in
the world.
Certain professions thatrequire educations, but I think colleges
should be disbanded and thereshould only be trade schools.
There should be a law.
Like, I'm.
I'm pursuing a law degree.

(39:01):
I think there should be a law track.
Like, once you decide thatyou're interested in law, you should
go to law trade school.
And law trade school is goingto cost a certain amount of money.
And if you want to be adoctor, you're going to go to Dr.
Trade School.
You know what I'm saying?
And it wouldn't be.
And that's essentially whatcollege is.
It's just a big generalizedtrade school, like, event.
You go through college and youend up in one field.

(39:24):
And that's essentially like,what the education system is supposed
to be doing.
But ultimately, speaking overthe course of a child's life, the
education system gives youfriends and takes away friends, allows
you the opportunity tocommunicate, which is now very necessary
because with the way the worldis post Covid.

(39:44):
People aren't playing anymore.
We saw a kid, me and my fiance.
I say, when, I say we.
We saw a child riding a bikein a community, like in a strip mall
the other day.
And our first reaction waswhere his parents.
What's going on?
Like, why is this kid out?
Like, I used to do that allthe time.
I was out for hours and hoursand hours riding my bike, doing crazy
stuff.
And now it's like, whoa,there's reason for concern, you know?

(40:05):
So nowadays school isnecessary for that aspect.
Otherwise we're just going toend up with a bunch of Call of duty
Black Ops 6 players who.
But outside of that, where,like, the need to be able to be social
with somebody, I don't thinkschool is really necessary until,
like middle school, where youjust learn how to be a business person

(40:28):
like you.
You learn how to interact withthe world around you in a corporate
sense.
But I lost track of what I wastalking about.
But that's how I feel about school.
So I know we ain't supposed tomake this like three years long for
your project for school here,but I do think this is an important
question since this issomething that your class or your

(40:51):
teacher or both may hear.
What do you want to say tothem about you being a father and
what you take away fromchildcare and child development?
I think we put a lot of rulesand structure around childcare and
child development, and there'stoo much information.
Like, we do a lot.
We do a lot in the space ofresearch and developing or in research

(41:14):
and development.
Sorry.
We do a lot to learn as muchas we possibly can as a society,
as people.
And we've gotten all the waydown to like, understanding what
this specific session of DNAdoes in a brain.
So this is how we need tocounteract it and so on and so forth.
There's a lot of medicationsto fix kids and stuff now, and I

(41:35):
think that's stupid.
There's so much informationthat it's hard to be a parent and
it's hard to know when you'redoing something right.
It's hard to know when you'redoing something wrong.
And no matter what you do,you're going to look up something
afterwards after you do it.
And you're going to see bothsides of the spectrum.
You're going to see articlesabout kids that develop into murderers
because you took away theirapplesauce too early or.

(41:57):
And you're going to seearticles about kids that became geniuses
because you took awayapplesauce too early.
Like, there's.
There's two sides to everysingle situation, and it's up to
you to decide whether you're aterrible person or not.
And the fact of the matter is,you're just.
You're not a terrible person.
You're going through life justlike everybody else is.
And back in the day beforethere was Internet, kids were like,

(42:19):
There weren't car seats.
Kids were in baskets on thefront of vehicles.
You know, like this.
People were figuring it outjust like us.
And the guy that invented thebasket in front of vehicles didn't
go to jail.
Like, he was just trying tohelp out, you know?
So as we.
As we go through life and aswe have children and.
And experience adulthood inthat fashion, I think it's just about,
like, not.
Not making sure you're doingeverything perfect.

(42:41):
Just experience what's happening.
Like, see.
See the development in your children.
See the development that'staking place.
Decide whether or not youagree with it.
And if you don't agree withit, you got to change you.
You don't got to change your kids.
You got to change your actions.
What you're portraying.
Like, you don't want your kids.
First word.
To be the F bomb, then stopsaying the F bomb.
You know, like, just makedecisions yourself about how you

(43:04):
want to rep how you want yourkids to be one day, and then represent
yourself that way.
I think what I would like yourclass and teacher to know is this
parenting is very hard, and wenever get everything right.
I've made a ton of mistakeswhen I was raising you and your brother,
and I'm sure I'm making a tonof mistakes now with the two that's

(43:26):
here.
I will say to the class, giveyour parents grace.
We come from a whole different time.
You know, I was.
I was raised in the 70s and 80s.
We went outside and made dirt pies.
We didn't have the Internetlike we have now.
And outside was everything.
And there was a different rule.
I feel of respect from parentto child back then than there is
now.

(43:46):
I watch a lot of kids thatwill fight their parents literally
fists, you know, in the storeor cuss them out.
And then I would sit there andsay, man, I would never do that to
my mom.
My mom would probably throw meacross the room if I did something
like that.
And our children, I believe,raise their children based on things
sometimes that they see thatthey liked and they see that they

(44:08):
didn't like.
And the one thing that I wishwould happen is that more conversations
between father Son, father,daughter, daughter, mother would
be what happened more.
I think it's healing.
I think it shows us, not onlyas a child, but as a parent, how
far we've come and we've grownby taking what we've learned from
raising you and being able toapply that to the child that we currently

(44:32):
have schools north.
Anybody who's listening isjokes now because we have teachers
that are either too young toteach or they're too old to teach,
or teachers just in betweenthat they just don't want to teach.
They're there because theyhave a guaranteed paycheck and tenure
and that makes the childsuffer even more.
So I just want to say there'sno rule book for being a parent.

(44:56):
No matter how many videos, nomatter how many lectures, no matter
how many classes you go to,you're writing the book as you go.
And I feel like with eachchild I have six of them, that when
dealing with each of you, Irewritten the book of raising or
talking to you guys every chapter.
Because I can't use the samebook that I raised you with and use
it to raise Jacob.

(45:16):
Even though you guyspersonalities are the same, you guys
are still vastly different inthe way that I have to handle things.
I have to talk to you acertain way, that doesn't trigger
you.
And I have to talk to him acertain way.
It doesn't trigger him.
So no matter what class youtake, no matter if you have multiple
kids, you're always writingthat book.
So give your parents somegrace and learn what you can from

(45:39):
them and go back to your dador your mom sometime and have these
kind of conversations.
Because I do think thatthey're, they're healing in the end.
Yeah, definitely.
There's definitely healing for me.
I think a few months ago, Idon't remember exactly how long ago
it was, but we had.
I.
Jacob came to visit and thatwas eye opening for me because it's

(45:59):
like, it takes me out of thisposition where I am in currently
to where I'm raising five yearolds and I have a five year old,
a two year old and a almostone year old, you know, and it's
not, it's.
I went from their, theirparenting styles for them and went
on to trying to jump 10 yearsinto the future and raise a 13, 14

(46:23):
year old and it's like, whoa,trying to get him to listen, not
possible.
Like getting him to break awayfrom his own interests, not possible.
Like you.
And we don't have the historyof me coming down on you when you
did something wrong when youwere 3 and 4 and 5 years old for
you to have that respect.

(46:43):
For me, I didn't have thatwith him because I didn't raise him.
So me asking him to do thingswas like talking to a brick wall
and stuff like that.
And it's like, hey, we gotta,like, develop.
You're here for a newexperience, and you're not even willing
to have that.
He just saw this as a hugevacation where he could come and
play games whenever you wantedand get away from structure.

(47:04):
So that's definitely, like,extremely difficult.
And putting myself into thatscenario really kind of opened my
eyes to how difficult I madethings for you when I was a child,
Even though I was a child,like, I, you know, I'm hindsight
2020 type thing, but that, youknow, urged me to call you and be
like, yo, you know, I'm sorry.

(47:26):
I was definitely a lot.
But in hindsight, looking.
Looking back on all thoseexperiences that we had, I appreciate
the experiences that I hadwhen I was a child because I got
so bold and so ridiculous andso into my own head thinking that
I was a genius, that I putmyself in a situation where I was

(47:48):
in the foster system nowbecause I turned the world on its
head.
And, like, I wanted controlover my own life, and I finally got
it.
Yes.
And I ended up in a fostersystem where I was getting beat up
every day, and I was like, whoa.
Like.
And then I.
I entered into this world ofpolitics inside of the foster home
with these eight other grownboys, all bigger than me, where I'm
like.

(48:08):
Like, I'm in over my head.
I can't walk out of my bedroomwithout being assaulted.
I can't.
I can't ask for food withoutasking the other boys in the house
permission.
I didn't look cool unless I, like.
I tried to, like, match theway that they looked so that I would
fit in.
So I, like, pierced my ownears and, like, did weird stuff to

(48:28):
try to fit in.
Changed my whole lookup.
And that was, like, the big.
That was the big realizationfor me where it's like, I am not
special.
I am not.
There's.
I.
I have to be able to adapt tothis environment.
I have to be able to regulatemy emotions to fit this scenario.
And the scenario was createdby myself.

(48:50):
I did it to my.
I did it to myself.
I didn't realize that therewere worse places in the world than
my comfortable bedroom where Iwas eating four meals a day and snacks
whenever I decided to steal them.
You know, the environment wasvery different.
And I forced myself into aposition where I had to grow up really
quick or die, to be quitefrank with you.

(49:12):
My foster.
My foster home was in themiddle of Los Angeles.
I was surrounded by several gangs.
I was getting beat up a lot.
There was a kid in my grouphome who you did not mess with, and
I stole stuff from him all the time.
Just trying to.
Trying to, like, be the kidthat had the balls to go and take.
Take from this guy thateverybody was afraid of.

(49:33):
And I learned a lot of lessonsreally quick in the time that I was
there, and I think that shapedmy development a lot.
And I did it to myself, youknow, so.
And that was a very difficult time.
Just to give some quickcontext of that, you know, you went
to school, some kids said, ifyou don't like what your parents
is doing, just tell them thisand they'll take you and give you

(49:55):
all this stuff.
So, of course, they did removeyou and they gave you all of this.
These clothings like that.
And like I tell your brotherand sister now, I'm like, one day
you're going to go somewhereand you're going to figure out that
the best place that you evercould be was at home.
Because things not going to belike home anymore.
And of course, we went throughthe whole DCFS thing with that, where
they tried to say I wasputting words in your mouth, because

(50:15):
I think at one point you saidthat I have held you on the ground
and beat you MMA style.
And I said, have you seen him?
And you see me?
And then I think you said thesame thing.
But the important lesson fromthat was it killed us.
And Beth and I sat down andsays, what do we think is the best?
And if you remember, you had ajudge that just was taking nothing,

(50:36):
right?
Because at this point, you hadbeen accused of theft and a whole
bunch of other things.
And she was like, he's goingto this home.
And if he even breathes wrong,if you get an F, I'm gonna lock you
up in juvenile jail, andyou'll be there till you're 18.
And so then the conversationstarted coming, because we started
getting calls in the groupproblem saying the same.
Some of the same behaviors youwas exhibiting there.

(50:58):
After they told us that wewere lying, and we got called in
and said, what do you want to do?
And I called your mom and Isaid, if he's going to get the help
in which he needs, can we sendhim back to Minnesota?
Because the option we had waseither that or because you had Violated
this judge, who was a female,was like, he done.
He was going to throw grandtheft on you.

(51:19):
And I said, can we try this first?
Can we just send him to his mom's?
I don't think at his age, jailis what he needs.
And she agreed with me and shetransferred her case to.
Back to Minnesota.
And she did look at you andsay, I'm going to be governing this
for the next year.
If you do anything youshouldn't do, I'm going to make sure

(51:39):
the judge there throw you in.
And if you remember, I satdown with you because I had to come
pick you up.
I had to go.
We had to go get some paperfrom court and then I had to take
you to the airport.
And I looked at you and Isaid, I don't hate you.
I said, I love you.
Nothing you could ever dowould ever make me hate you.
But I want you to go to Minnesota.
I want you to use this newgift that you have, this new life

(52:01):
that's been given to you, andI want you to make something of yourself.
Don't listen to what anybodyelse says.
Learn from the mistakes youlived here.
And one day, when you figureout for yourself what you have done
on your own, then you'll growfrom that.
And now I have the young manthat is sitting looking at me through
a screen right now.

(52:22):
And I couldn't be more proudof you as my son.
I'm grateful that I do have agrown son like you that I can come
to and have these kind ofconversations with and pass this
on to the rest of the world,because maybe there's somebody out
there right now that has aproblem with their son or the son
with their dad, and it can be fixed.
And in these times, I thinkkids, especially sons with fathers,

(52:46):
need them more today than theydid any other time.
So thank you for making me apart of your project.
And you'll be back because wehave a lot more to talk about here
in the future.
So I thank you for this.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm sure there's a lot.
I feel like we've enteredinto, like, a lot of.
We, like, started a bunch of,like, side quest stories where it's
like, there's way more to thisthat we need to figure out.

(53:08):
People will probably respondto and be like, yo, wait, we need
to know.
What the hell's going on.
But yeah, it was definite.
The.
My childhood years weredefinitely very complex and complicated.
But it does, like, simple,simple humans don't do great things.
So it takes.
It takes Deviation from thenormal in order to be able to settle

(53:34):
or to be able to be confidentenough to be able to settle.
Because it's not.
What I'm discovering now isthat it's not about being Elon Musk.
It's not about going on andlike making Amazon.
It's just about finding peaceand filling your own cup of happiness
and contributing to the worldin a way that you find as valuable

(53:54):
and you don't got to be amillionaire, you know, but it takes
a.
It takes a lot of selfconfidence and a lot of.
It takes the.
The ability, which I feel likea lot of people don't have, to self
reflect and see the errors inyour own decision making and make

(54:16):
the decision to change on yourown, to be able to get to that point
to where you can just settleback and like.
And realize what it is that'simportant for you specifically and
not what's important to therest of the world.
And my childhood and thedifficulties that I went through
growing up in general led tome being the person that I am.

(54:36):
And I think that'sdemonstrated, or, I'm sorry, that's
proven by the differencebetween me and all my siblings, the
difference between me and mycousins, the difference between the
environment that I put myselfin and a lot of the other people
that had similar opportunitiesis just I went through hardship at
an age that was beneficial to me.

(54:57):
And I learned from.
I learned some big lessonswhen I was 14 and 15 that people
don't learn until they're 30and 35.
So I think the willingness tobe able to go through hard times
and get through them is important.
But no, I appreciate it.
I thank you for everythingthat you did with me when I was a

(55:19):
child, even though it wasprobably pulling teeth to get through.
I've vastly benefited from itas an adult.
Well, I'm happy to hear that, son.
And I couldn't ask for abetter child of all six of you guys.
You know that.
So thank you for including mein this.
It's been fun.
It's a conversation I think weneeded to have, and I look forward

(55:41):
to many more conversationsgoing down the line.
Love you.
Love you, too.
All right.
That was the interview for hisschool project with my son, devonte.
There were a lot of thingsthat we did touch on that we did
not go in depth into.
That's going to be coming.
I'm working with him now, andwe're going to do something.

(56:04):
I don't know if it'd beanother podcast or project, but I
think some of theseconversations are important for us
to have as adults.
And there's a lot ofcliffhanger in there that you guys
are probably wondering whatthey meant or how he got to a certain
spot.
Especially we talked aboutbeing in a group home in Los Angeles.
How did he get there?
All of that I promise you,down the line.

(56:24):
In later episodes we will talkabout those things because the things
that we went through with himespecially I think can help other
parents.
Even if you haven't gotten tothe stage of raising a teenage child
yet or having your kid beingflown by school, I think this is
a way to help you avoid somepitfalls before you get there.

(56:45):
So stay tuned for that.
I won't hold you guys too much longer.
Thank you for being here.
Like I said, we're gonna comeback with another couple episodes.
Sharon Vertz, you can lookforward to that one coming out real
soon.
And then I'll be back withanother episode that is going to
tell you guys what happenedwhile I was gone for so long and
what's going to happen withthe podcast for the remaining of

(57:08):
the year.
Once again, thank you forjoining us today.
I know you have many choicesin True Crime Interview podcast and
I am grateful that for thelast almost three years you have
chose me.
You have been listening to theonly three faceted podcast of its
kind.
Be good to your self and each other.

(57:31):
And always remember, alwaysstay humble.
An act of kindness can makesomeone's day.
A little love and compassioncan go a long way.
And remember that there is anextraordinary person in all of us.
I'll catch you guys on thenext one.

(57:52):
Don't forget to rate, commentand subscribe.
Join us on Social Media Onelink to the link tree has it all.
Feel free to drop us [e-mail] sound
mixing and editing by DavidMcClam intro script by Sophie Wilde
and David McClam theme musiclegendary by New Alchemist Introduction

(58:16):
and ending credits by Jackie Vois.
See you next time on True Crime.
Authors and Extraordinary People.