December 10, 2024 • 49 mins
Sharon Virts, a New York Times bestselling author, joins David McClam to discuss her latest book, "Graves of Truth," which was released just before Halloween on October 29, 2024. This atmospheric historical mystery thriller delves into a series of suspicious deaths among Baltimore's elite during the Reconstruction era, exploring themes of deceit, mental health, and the societal constraints faced by women of the time. Sharon shares her unique writing process, emphasizing the importance of character development and the balance between historical accuracy and narrative engagement. The conversation also touches on her passion for historical preservation, her love for graveyards, and the inspiration she draws from the past. Join them for an enlightening discussion that blends true crime, history, and the art of storytelling.
Takeaways:
- Sharon Virts discusses her passion for writing and how it serves as therapy.
- David McClam emphasizes the importance of mental health and resources like Dial 988.
- The historical context of Sharon's book, Grays of Truth, reflects societal issues from the 1870s.
- Sharon shares her unique connection to graveyards and how they inspire her writing.
- The podcast highlights the significance of capturing personal stories for future generations.
- Sharon's approach to character development involves deep research and understanding their backgrounds.
Get your Copy of The Grays Of Truth HERE
Chapters:
- 00:10 - Introduction to The Grays of Truth
- 09:18 - Restoration of Selma Mansion: A Labor of Love
- 17:42 - The Spirit of the House
- 21:02 - The Making of a Mystery: Unveiling the Characters
- 32:51 - Jane's Journey and Inner Demons
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Cover Art and Logo created by Diana of Other Worldly
Sound Mixing and editing by David McClam
Intro script by Sophie Wild From Fiverr & David McClam
Intro and outro jingle by Jacqueline G. (JacquieVoice) From Fiverr
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey everybody, just a quickside note.
Before we get into today'sepisode, you will hear reference
to the book the Graves ofTruth before it was released.
This interview was shot backin September and Grades of Truth
has been released.
It was released October 29, 2024.
So when you hear me say andtalking to Sharon about, get your
(00:23):
copy and when it comes out, itis already out.
So let me say to Sharon Vertz,happy belated pub day.
Hope you guys go and get yourcopies and please enjoy this episode.
You will find Sharon Wirtz tobe very enlightening.
I'll catch you guys on thenext one.
You are seen.
(00:44):
You are worthy.
You are not alone.
The world loses one person tosuicide every 40 seconds.
Let's change the stats together.
We can say not suicide.
Not today.
Welcome to True Crime Authorsand Extraordinary People, the podcast
(01:08):
where we bring two passions together.
The show that gives newmeaning to the old adage truth is
stranger than fiction.
And reminding you that thereis an extraordinary person in all
of us, here is your host,David McClam.
What's going on, everybody?
And welcome to another episodeepisode of True Crime.
Marvelous and ExtraordinaryPeople, of course.
I'm your man, David McLam.
(01:30):
If you guys haven't already,make sure you follow us on all of
our social media.
One link to a link tree willget you every place you need to go
pertaining to the show.
All right, as you heard comingin, if you are someone that is considering
hurting yourself or someoneelse, please leave this episode.
Dial 988.
You can do that by text or by voice.
(01:52):
It is the suicide prevention hotline.
They can give you all the helpthat you need.
And if no one else has toldyou this today, let me be the first
to tell you, I do care and wedo need you to be here.
All right, so if you'relooking at your calendars, you know,
once again, it is time foranother fabulous author interview.
(02:12):
And I do have a good one foryou today.
Let me tell you about our guest.
She is a New York Timesbestselling author of atmospheric
historical mystery thrillers,each ripped from headlines and built
from her own research andoften with direct ties to her own
historical home in Virginia.
She is also the host of theRead with Sharon Book Club.
(02:36):
She is a passionate historian,science buff, philanthropist, winemaker,
and above all, a lifelong creator.
Whether it be art in a widevariety of mediums or the written
word.
She has journaled since shewas six years old and is compelled
to write daily.
She is the author of the Graysof Truth.
(02:58):
Please welcome, Sharon Virts.
Hey, Sharon.
Thank you for coming on the show.
Hi, David.
Thank you so much for havingme today.
It is honor and pleasure foryou to be here.
Oh, I am indeed honored to be here.
It's just a wonderfulexperience to be with you and all
your guests.
Well, I guess from thatintroduction, the question I begin
every episode with is, isthere anything else that we should
(03:18):
know sharing verts that wedon't know already?
Oh, I don't know.
I love to write.
I have three dogs.
I love my gardens, and I love graveyards.
Tell me I'm crazy, but there'ssomething about walking in a cemetery
that thrills me.
I don't know.
It's.
It's my thing.
Most of the sex sextons arethe guys that run the cemeteries
(03:39):
in my little town here, knowme, and they think that I'm the strange
woman that sits on graves andtalks to dead people.
So I don't actually.
They don't talk back.
That's a good thing.
But I do spend a lot of timeout there in cemeteries.
We can get into that.
Because I do know that there'sa part here I want to talk to you
about.
Because you believe that yourhouse was haunted, which also sparked
(04:00):
you to release this book we'regoing to talk about today, right
before Halloween.
So I think it's interestingthat you said that you like graveyards
on that.
But let's start here.
You've been writing since youwere 6 years old.
That's an awful long time.
We never ask a lady her age.
You don't look a day over 19.
Thank you.
How did you keep the passionto be writing all those years?
I think it's important forevery person to express themselves,
(04:23):
to take what's in their headand to end up and to get it out into
the universe.
Right?
So it could be either throughthe written word or through art.
Art or through music orwhatever it might be.
Because I think we hold backour emotions and what we feel and
what we're experiencing, thenit festers, right?
And then we think bad thoughtsand we do things we shouldn't do.
(04:45):
To me, I think writing is like journaling.
I mean, it's like.
Like therapy.
Journaling is like therapy,you know, like you go to a shrink
and you talk about all your problems.
Well, me and the paper havewords about, you know, what is facing
me in my life each day.
And it's a great way, I think,for me to cope with whatever stress,
whatever, you know, God throwsat me or the devil throws at me or
(05:05):
whoever throws at me.
It's.
It's my way of relieving thattension and working my problems out
for myself.
And I think that's a, a goodthing that everybody could practice.
I also think it's wonderfulfor us to all capture our legacy.
If we don't tell our stories,who will?
And I really encourage myfollowers to journal every day to
(05:28):
express themselves.
On Fridays, I give journalingprompts on my social media to help
folks walk through what theymight be thinking or feeling.
And we pick different themes,different topics, different approaches.
But it's really, reallyimportant, I think, for everyone
to tell their story.
So speaking of that, since youencourage people to journal every
day, I kind of want to knowyour take on this because now there's
(05:49):
a lot of companies like Applethat is honing in on journaling.
You know, they've put articlesout there stating is important for
the mental health, kind ofwhat you touched on.
How do you feel about digitaljournaling apps versus writing things
down?
My wife is very old school.
She will just write in a journal.
She doesn't want to doanything with a phone.
Do you think there's a vastdifference in those?
(06:11):
I think it depends on the generation.
I mean, so for example, mystepdaughter, when she goes to a
meeting, she brings her laptopand she types when someone's, you
know, to take notes.
I could never in a thousandyears do that.
I just don't work that way.
I grew up with paper.
You know, I got a new computer recently.
It's driving me crazy.
I had, you know, that one Ihad for eight years.
Now I got a new one.
I don't know how to use itvery well.
So I think it's whatever fitsyour style, whatever is you're comfortable
(06:36):
with, as long as you're doing it.
I mean, some people needphotographs or need a picture to
write about.
Some folks write letters, youknow, to themselves or to the journal.
Dear Diary.
Everyone has a differentapproach and a different style.
I say to each his own,Whatever works.
I just think that the youngergeneration is going to have an easier
(06:56):
time with digital as opposedto some of those folks who've been
around the sun a couple of times.
Good answer, Good answer.
I tell my wife you said sheshould burn all her journals.
I'm just kidding.
No, well.
Well, sometimes I do worryabout if my, if my children see mine,
some of them, I'm going, oh,my goodness.
But what's interesting is thatyou never know what, where they're
(07:18):
going to.
So, for example, I'm workingon a project now and I found a journal
that a woman here in thislocal area, her name was Ida Lee
Rust, she kept this journalfor a journal from the 1880s until
the 1920s.
And you know, I'm sure there'sa lot of things that she wrote in
there that she doesn't likepeople, like, wouldn't like folks
(07:38):
like me to be reading.
But I also get a really goodsense of what people were experiencing
in that time period based on,you know, where they were in society
and her viewpoints on, youknow, events of the day as well as
just day to day activities.
You know, her children notgoing to church enough or her, her
(07:59):
son not being involved with awoman that she didn't particularly
like, all the kind of thingsthat we deal with, but how she addressed
it or how that person lookedat those problems, took on those
challenges, you know, 100years ago versus the way you or I
might today, it's, it's alittle different.
You know, we wouldn't, I don'tknow that I would go to church and
(08:20):
pray over every day over whomy son was dating, you know, but
back then that was, you know,religion was really a big part of
society that everyone lived in.
So it's just, I think it'sjust really important to capture
your experiences, capture yourfeelings for the next generation.
And you know what, you'll bedead and gone.
So who cares what they tellyour wife?
Who cares what she wrote?
(08:41):
You know, we'll just, we'rejust glad to have a piece of her
left behind.
Well, that was kind of mything too.
You know, everybody startedcoming with digital journals.
I'm like, man, maybe I wantsome things to take to my grave.
I mean, even to the point nowto where Apple has gotten hit so
hard with, you know, I'm surethe people's doing nefarious things,
but, you know, why can't Ihide this app and why can't I lock
this app and now they justrecently fix it where you can't exactly
(09:03):
do exactly that.
We've had recent people inour, in our lives pass away, and
then some of the things youfind out, you're like, whoa, you
know, was I ever supposed tosee this?
But that's why I brought that up.
So to each his own.
Do your thing.
Exactly right.
So before we get into yourbook, the other interesting thing
about you is you had a passionproject with the full restoration
(09:26):
of your property, gardens and everything.
You said it was a labor oflove in Selma, Virginia.
Can you Tell us a little bitabout that.
Yeah, sure.
So it's actually.
It's called.
It's called Selma Mansion.
And it is in Virginia,Northern Virginia, near Leesburg.
And it was originally owned.
It was part of a large tractof land that was owned by the Mason
(09:46):
family.
George Mason III drowned inthe river.
He left three children and hiswife behind, and he was a young man
when he drowned.
And he had not reallydeveloped an inheritance for them.
So his wife, Ann ThompsonMason, bought 10,000 acres, if you
can believe that, back in 1740or some really early age, long, long
time ago.
And she gifted this tract ofland to her youngest son, Thompson
(10:09):
Mason.
Another tract she gave to herolder son, George Basin iv, which
was now Gun.
We have a small piece of that land.
Originally, it was owned bythe Masons.
And, you know, one Mason dies,and they divide it up among other
Masons.
And so the house, originallySelma, was built in 1810, and it
was burned, or most of itburned down in 1896, except for the
(10:31):
domestic enslaved quarters,which is now attached to the main
house.
And it's my favorite part ofthe house.
I'll tell you about that in a minute.
But it was rebuilt in 1902 bythe whites after a long period of
time.
They lived here and ultimatelybecame abandoned in about the late
90s.
And so it had been abandonedabout 20 years when we bought it.
And it spoke to me.
(10:52):
It was just a beautiful oldhome, you know, 18,000 square feet.
I mean, a hot mess.
I mean, we had vandals,varmints, and, you know, all kinds
of stuff going on here.
We had, you know, groundhogsliving underneath the house.
We had snakes in the basement.
We had, you know, birds livingand nesting, vines coming inside,
(11:12):
water coming through the roof.
So it took us about two years.
My husband and I, we restoredit and we brought it back to life.
And for the old part, a treehad fallen on the old enslaved quarters,
which is.
Which was the old kitchen.
At some point, the countywanted us to tear it down because
they said that it had beencompromised so terribly, it wouldn't
be able to sustain anybodyliving in it.
(11:34):
So we brought in old masons,masons from Jamestown who were descended
from the enslaved Masons themselves.
Great guys.
Their names, you'll love this,were Cheetah and Smoke.
And they.
They were wonderful men.
And they.
They taught our Masons herehow to restore these old bricks in
this old part of the house.
(11:54):
And it is gorgeous.
They have redone the whole thing.
We left it sort of like thatnew York loft, you know, brick and
beams exposed and you know,it's not the sexy mansion that the
rest of the place is, but it'swhere I do a lot of writing.
And I have, I've had momentswhere I felt like the house is talking
to me, telling me to writecertain things or to do certain things
(12:17):
in that part of the house.
And I just really enjoy it.
So labor of love.
And I really do find that whatinspires a lot of the things I write
is not just an event that hasoccurred or a person that's been
involved, but the sense of place.
You know, the place itselfbecomes a character almost.
And I don't know, when you'rereading my new book, Grays, if you've,
(12:38):
you've sort of felt that wayas you've listened to Jane Gray talk
about when she's walking downto the streets of Washington D.C.
and sees the half builtWashington Monument begging the sky,
the heavens for completion.
If you get a sense of thatsense of place and that environment
and it's important.
And I use this house sort ofas that backdrop when I'm trying
(12:59):
to envision what it must belike to live there.
I try to look at myself.
How would I have cooked inthis kitchen if it was wood stove,
you know, versus or how wouldI, how would we have heated it?
How would that have worked?
The house to me serves a lotof inspiration and sort of fuels
my love of history andhistorical preservation.
I've received many awards fromthe Virginia Preservation Society
(13:22):
and others for the work thatwe've done here.
And on another property that Ihave restored in Leesburg, an old
Victorian that was in bad shape.
So is this the same mansion?
Because when you go and lookup Selma, Virginia, a big article
pops up that says that therewas a mansion that had been restored.
So is this the same mansion inwhich you speak of?
Yes, it is.
(13:43):
Well, that's kind of awesome.
Yeah, we have a big following.
It used to be a wedding venueand I think the number is about 3,000
couples were married in aperiod of 30 some odd years, 35 years
at this place.
So there's a lot of folks whohave been married here and who have
memories, some of them goodmemories and some of them, you know,
(14:04):
didn't end up so well.
So they may be bad memories,but a lot of folks have been married
here.
And so we have a lot, have hada lot of interest in the houses,
like, and every year I put upabout eight Christmas trees and I
open it to the public and allthe Proceeds from the ticket sales
for that event goes to Loudoun.
Historical preservation, youknow, preservation initiatives here
(14:25):
in our county.
Whether it's, you know, a bighistorical house or if it's a small
place, it doesn't reallymatter to us as long as we're taking
care of the past so that wehave it for future generations to
learn.
Now, this home before, I said,let me say this.
I'm glad you said that,because as you probably know, there's
been this big controversy overthe last couple years about removing
(14:46):
monuments, especially onesthat deals with slavery and deals
with my people.
We never asked for that.
I'm one of those people thatbelieve that even though those monuments
may be painful, it is a partof history.
When I tell my childrenstories of this may happen here or
in states that still haveslave auction blocks, and I say,
(15:08):
that's what biz used to behere, it's kind of hard for them
to grasp that if I go, well,it used to be here, but now it's
not.
So I'm glad that you arerestoring history and opening it
up.
Never be ashamed of thestories that was there.
Yeah.
And I want to tell yousomething about that in particular.
So I had a countyadministrator here.
We did an open house.
(15:29):
And when she was walkingthrough, she said she didn't want
to go into the enslaved quarter.
She just had.
She felt very uncomfortablewith that.
And I said to her, her namewas Phyllis.
And I said, phyllis, what I'dlike for you to do is instead of
thinking about all the badthings that happen here, look at
the architecture, look at the brickwork.
The rest of the place isburned down.
(15:50):
This is still standing.
Those men and children builtthis building with their own hands,
with their own sweat, and theytook pride in it.
Look at the quality of the craftsmanship.
Go in there and rejoice that,because that's the only legacy that
we have of them.
We don't know their names.
We don't know who they were.
We know nothing about themother than what we see in this building.
(16:13):
And we should be proud of thatfor them.
They want us to be proud of.
That's all they left behind orthe things that they built.
I think we need to think aboutthat in terms of, you know, that's
the legacy.
That's all they.
They could leave.
So let's.
Let's at least respect that.
And when you go into mykitchen, you'll find thumbprints
in the brick from the boys andthe men who made the.
(16:37):
Molded the clay and pickedthose hot Bricks up as they were,
and put them down to cool orto put them in the oven to bake.
And you find thosethumbprints, and we've restored them.
I found three in that group,and I was working on a building downtown
with my crew, and we weretearing down old plaster, and I found
two thumbprints in those, andI point them out.
It was actually a historical building.
(16:57):
The museum is there now, andthey have that on display so folks
can see that and we can talkabout it.
I think that's important forus to share.
It is shared history.
It's good and it's bad andit's ugly.
And the thing I want to do is rejoice.
Not rejoice, but at leastcelebrate those men and women who
work so hard, they do havesomething to leave behind.
(17:18):
They have something to say,and they say it in the buildings
that we see that they built.
We should not forget that.
Now, you say that you feelthat the house is haunted and has
its own haunted history.
I say spirited, David.
Spirited.
Spirited is better.
Haunted seems bad.
Spirited is a lot easier wordfor me.
Okay, spirited.
(17:39):
So you fill the house with.
Spirited has its own historywith that.
Now, this has also sparked youto release your book on October 29,
two days before Halloween.
Can you tell us why you feelthat the house is indeed spirited?
Have you experienced some ofthis yourself?
Oh, yes.
So there's a number of things,but the.
The baking bread.
(17:59):
So I've never seen a spirit here.
I felt them.
Them.
I've heard them.
I've seen stuff get moved.
And I swear to God, I.
You know, hand to God, I don'tknow how it moved across the table,
how things happen like that,but I smell them more than anything
else.
And every once.
How do I say this?
So a couple years ago, it wasjust recently, we heard it had it
(18:22):
happen again.
We had a psychic person kindof go through, and she said there
was four, she thinks, fourspirits living in this house.
And one of them was a womanthat was a little.
A little black woman, AfricanAmerican woman that lived, she thinks,
in the.
In that old enslaved area.
And she was a cook or somesort of servant or something.
That's what she says.
(18:42):
And who knows, right?
So maybe it's just in yourbrain you're thinking this, but I
got up one morning, and ourdogs always sleep with.
We have three Labrador retrievers.
I open the door to my bedroombecause they want to go downstairs
with this routine.
I go into the morning room,which is right next door.
I put my teapot on to make tea.
There's dog biscuits and dogtreats in there.
(19:02):
So I give them a treat every morning.
So they go beelining out ofthe bedroom into that morning room.
Every morning they get theirdog biscuits and then they go outside.
That's kind of the routine.
So I get up this morning, thatmorning, it was August 1st a couple
years ago, I open the door andI have the smell of baking bread
everywhere.
You know that smell, thatbeautiful, wonderful, lovely smell
(19:24):
of fresh baked bread.
And I'm going, well, that's strange.
And the dogs sort of stop andinstead of going into the morning
room, they hightail itdownstairs and go into the kitchen.
So I wasn't the only one thatsmelled the baking bread.
They smelled it too.
And then just a few weeks ago,we were doing the.
(19:46):
The book trailer.
We were filming the trailerfor the Grace of Truth and what we
call our smoking room.
It's the old architecturalplans and that's where they had a
smoking room.
And the photographer, theactress, my marketing team, we were
all sort of standing aroundand all of a sudden everyone smells
it at the same time, the bigsmell of baking bread.
(20:09):
And I said, I'm telling you guys.
And they're going, oh, you'reright, we smell it.
So it's an odd thing.
And I think this, this houseloves to entertain.
It loves when we have parties.
You can feel it.
It's very positive energy.
It's not negative energy.
I've had experience withthings being moved around and the
(20:30):
doors being locked and doorsopening and dogs being let in, the
doors shutting and that kindof stuff.
But mostly in that back halfwith my little friend who likes to
bake bread, I haven't got aname for, but I just know she's there.
But it's a lovely home.
And if anybody is in Virginiathe second Sunday in December, we
always have an afternoon openhouse where all the trees are lit.
(20:54):
We have Santa Claus here andlots of hot mulled cider and desserts
for anyone who'd like to come.
So it's open.
Well, now, that leads us intoyour book, the Grays of Truth.
I'm going to read just alittle bit of the synopsis just to
whet the audience appetite,and then we'll dive into it.
In reconstruction areaBaltimore, members of the city's
(21:14):
elite keep turning up dead.
Below the polished surface ofhigh society.
There are illicit affairs,jilted lovers, financial hardships,
and countless motives for murder.
When Jane Gray Wharton'shusband Ned dies unexpectedly while
overnighting at his brotherHank Wharton's home, Jane has no
reason to question thecircumstances of his death.
(21:36):
But as a visit to the samehome a few weeks later, both Jane
and her daughter fall gravely ill.
And Jane begins to suspectfoul play.
If that doesn't whet yourappetite, nothing will.
So as intriguing as out, thisis historical fiction, but that sounds
like something that can verywell happen today.
Tell us a little bit of howyou came to write the Grades of Truth,
(21:59):
and can you go a little bitinto the characters of the book,
starting with Jane?
Sure.
So I was researching, workingon another book that.
My book that came out lastyear, the Veil of Doubt.
And it's a sort of like ahistorical fiction, John Grisham
kind of legal sort of thriller.
And when I was looking at thehistory of the professor who was
(22:21):
a chemical analysis.
I'm sorry, the chemicalanalyst in that book, in that story,
in real life, I became veryinterested in him because he married
Susanna Surratt, who was thedaughter of Mary Surratt, who was
tried and hanged for theassassination of President Lincoln.
So that sort of intrigued me.
So I thought the book might beabout him.
(22:41):
You know, he's like a forensicscientist in 1870.
How cool is that?
And I learned that he hadtestified in a trial before the one
that I was writing about in my.
In my second book, Veil.
And that trial was about theWharton family.
And I became really intrigued.
And so I started researching.
And lo and behold, members ofthe Wharton family in Baltimore,
(23:02):
every time they went to Hankand Ellen Wharton's house, they wouldn't
come out alive.
I mean, six, seven people.
So it's a little strange of a story.
And so the more I dug into it,the more I realized that something
truly was nefarious going on.
But I didn't know from whoseperspective to write it from.
Was I going to write it fromone of the victims?
(23:24):
Someone had been killed, wasgoing to write it from maybe the
sheriff or the police captain,Jake Fry, who was investigating,
but then, of course, wasthwarted by the governor and other
political folks above him interms of the pecking order in Baltimore.
Whose perspective would it be?
And then when I was looking attrial notes, I saw several letters
(23:45):
from a woman named Jane GrayWharton who had written these letters
that said, ellen has beenkilling, you know, members of my
household, and somebody needsto do something about it.
And the more I researchedTort, the more intrigued I became.
She.
Her father was a brilliantchemist and a brilliant doctor, and
she had an interest in chemistry.
(24:07):
She had gone to university.
It was unbelievably rare forsomeone in her world, you know, born
in 1819 to go to a four yearcollege and get a degree.
She was married to a man shedidn't want to be married to.
And she spent long stints inhospitals, Quaker hospitals for debility.
(24:29):
That is code word in 1860,1870, for she's crazy.
So mental illness.
So she had been sent away andthat's the reason no one was believing
her accusations of her sisterin law.
So I was compelled to write afictionalized version of the story.
(24:50):
To write nonfiction to me is boring.
As you and I probably spoke.
We spoke about in the greenroom before we had this discussion.
I wanted to make thisinteresting and exciting and I wanted
to make you feel for thevictims who were dying.
And so having her having arelationship with most of the people
who were impacted by what washappening at Hamilton Place in Baltimore,
(25:11):
I thought, you know, thatwould make you as a reader feel more
empathy for what was happeningand more sympathy and just be more,
you know, more involved andmore connected to the story.
And I love Jane Gray.
I think she's a great, youknow, a very pathetic protagonist
in the beginning.
(25:31):
And with all that's thrown ather, she grows.
And she may not get what shewants at the end of the book, but
she gets what she needs.
And I think that's what's mostimportant not only in fiction, but
in real life.
Well, yeah, like we said offthe air, you know, I am not a huge
historical fiction person.
You're the second historicalfiction author that I like because
(25:52):
of the detail of the book.
It makes me feel like it couldhappen today.
It's not drawn out right.
So we really get into the bookand we get to know right away what's
going on and getting investedin it.
The detail of your book isoften done so well that you really
can't tell between what's realand what's not.
So what is your writingprocess with that?
(26:12):
You know, how do you researchall your characters beforehand and
things of that nature?
So, you know, a lot of folksfocus on the event when they research.
I like to focus on the people.
So of course I want to knowabout the event and I get what I
need to have about that.
But then my big tool is ancestry.com.
i go into ancestry and try tofigure out birth order, you know,
(26:36):
mother, father, when theylived, when they died, did they die
when, you know, a characterwas 2 or did they die when she was
12 or did they die when shewas 30?
What about brothers and sisters?
What about husbands?
What about children?
The.
All the things you can find out.
There's so much you can findout in terms of how life's events
(26:58):
would have impact on anindividual to kind of paint pictures
about what that person mightbe like.
And then, of course, I try toget writings, any writing I can find
from them.
If it's a woman, it's verydifficult because women didn't get
published very often.
So I'd look at the fathers andthe brothers and the husbands and
the cousins and the folks thatrelated to them and how they were
(27:20):
to understand what I mightneed to know about a particular character.
And then I sort of.
I basically put up awhiteboard or a butcher paper and
kind of go through what theylook like, what characteristics,
what trauma there might havebeen in their past that would impact
their present behavior.
I oftentimes work with apsychologist who's a very good friend
(27:41):
of mine, Julie Fender.
She and I will sit down and wewill come up with sort of a diagnosis,
if you will, especially for myvery damaged characters in my books.
And then making sure that onceI sort of develop that personality
for each person that I'm goingto be, each character that I'm consistent,
that, you know, I'm going towrite Hank Wharton as he was.
(28:04):
You know, he's not asentimental old guy as much as he
is a rake.
So he's going to have a wholedifferent set of ways he reacts to
something that would bedifferent than, let's say General
Scott Ketchum or Mars Stantonor whoever it might be that I'm profiling.
So, you know, trying to keepwith how they would be acting and
how they would be conversingbased on their personalities.
(28:25):
And that's really important to me.
And then you place them in atimeline, and I am a whiteboard kind
of gal.
And I get sticky notes, likethese little things, post it notes,
and I put dates and events andthings that are important, and I
put them on a timeline andthen introduce my characters into
those and then look at myoverall timing that says, okay, what's
(28:46):
going to happen?
Where am I going to start?
Where am I going to end?
Number one thing is the mostimportant thing in writing is to
know how the book is going toend before you even start.
If you don't know how it'sgoing to end, then you really can't
get there and you're all overthe place.
And so I always write myending first.
And that came to me fromadvice I received from a really good
friend of mine.
Anthony McCartan.
(29:07):
Anthony wrote the Darkest Hour.
He's screenplay writer.
He wrote Bohemian Rhapsody,the biopic on Whitney Houston.
He did that as well.
The Theory of Everything.
Two popes is a great man.
And so he always said, you gotto know that ending and where that
ending is going to take you,so you know where to go and how to
get there.
(29:28):
And so I just sort of lay itout and then I outline and then just
start writing and I write thefirst three chapters.
I gotta get those done.
And that sets the tone for therest of the book.
Oftentimes I'll skip chapters.
I'm like, I don't like this character.
I'm not going to read that.
I'm going to sort of go.
I'm going to go here and here.
Right now in the book I'mwriting, I'm.
I'm writing two women, asopposed to the men who are really
(29:48):
driving things.
The women are much moreinteresting in this book.
So I've been writing theirpieces now that I'll go back and
fill in later.
So it's just, you know,however that that strikes me.
But I'm relatively organized.
I have a hard time withstructure, but once I get my structure
down, it's just writing, youknow, as it.
As it flows to me.
(30:09):
And your characters do evolveover time.
I mean, Jane Gray became moreand more interesting as I wrote her,
and she became less and lesslike Axa, who.
I love Axa in that book.
Axa became her sort of sidekick.
You know, the person that, youknow, that tells you the truth, whether
you want to hear the truth or not.
Everybody needs one of those.
(30:29):
She's also the person that she probably.
Jane probably would get introuble with if she was, you know,
left alone in today's society.
You know, they were sort oftwo peas in a pod, but different.
Different people in this book.
Anyway, I don't like to give awhole lot of the book away because
it's not out yet.
Part of my job I love the mostis I get to read people's books before
they come out.
(30:49):
So I already know what theorder is getting into besides will
be read and safely so that weget people to go buy your book.
What can you give us about the book?
The intricacies, a little bitmore about the characters.
What was going on during thatperiod of time that you wrote your
book in?
Okay, so the book is set, itstarts in 1867, and mostly in Washington,
(31:12):
D.C.
and Baltimore and a little bitin Philadelphia.
And it's right after the Civil War.
And Jane Gray has served as anurse at Armory Square.
Armory Square is the hospitalthat was set up next to the Armory
Armory on the Washington Mall.
And it was next to the train station.
You know, they were bringinghim back from Alexandria or wherever
it might be in the south.
(31:32):
And it was the stop.
It was the hospital closest tothe train.
And only the patients thatwere the most severely injured would
stay there if they were tooseverely injured to travel to any
other hospital any further.
They stopped right there atArmory Square.
So she saw some of the worstof the casualties on the Union side
(31:53):
from the Civil War.
So that's kind of her background.
So she's pretty numb in a lotof ways.
And she's in an abusive marriage.
And she hears voices.
She hears voices in her head.
And I'm not going to tell youwhere the voices are coming from
or why they're.
Why they're in her head, butthat's one of the reasons she talks
to herself.
And people think that she'sodd and that she's strange, but she's
(32:14):
also very smart, but she'salso very withdrawn, an introverted
kind of person.
So she is.
Starts in 1867 and the firstchapter is available for anybody
who wants to read it online.
And pretty much every clue youneed for how that book's going to
go is in that first chapter.
A lot of questions about whyher best friend is dying and what's
(32:38):
the background, what's causing that.
And it leads to a lot of othersort of clues throughout the book
in terms of why peoplecontinue to die when they visit her
sister in law's house in Baltimore.
The book is really about that.
And Jane's trying to discoverthe truth, and not just the truth
about what was happening toher family, but also her truth, what's
(32:59):
happening to her, why she isso traumatized and forcing her to
face her demons and basicallylearn to live with them.
And as she moves through andaccomplishes what she wants for herself,
that's what this book isreally about.
It's really Jane's journey.
(33:20):
And I think we all have that right.
David.
Every one of us have demonsthat we have to wrestle with.
And unfortunately we can'tjust cast them away.
They live within us.
And it's a matter of how wemanage them and how we learn to coexist
in a way that, you know, weall are all on a positive trajectory.
And we don't allow thosedemons to pull us down into the past
(33:42):
or pull us down into thingsthat we don't want to be or people
we don't want to be, behaviorswe don't want to continue.
And that's really what Jane'sjourney is about in a lot of ways.
And you get the true crime inthere too, right?
The who done it.
Always got to have one of those.
You know, my books are reallynever about what they're about.
They're, you know, my lastbook was about a woman who went on
(34:04):
trial for murdering herchildren and her husband.
But it wasn't about that.
It was about the lawyer andhis journey.
You know, this is about peopledying in Baltimore, but it's not
about that.
It's about Jane and her jury.
And I think most authors that are.
That are worth their salt willhave that.
You know, there's two.
There's two things going on in every.
In every good book, right?
The plot.
(34:24):
But then what's really goingon with that character?
Well, it's going to be a goodread for sure.
We'll come back to that.
I have one more question toask you about the book for the audience.
Hope you guys are payingattention because it is going to
be a good book.
But I did want to touch onthis because I think it's very good.
You run your own historicalbook club called Read with Sharon.
(34:46):
It has a passionate group of followers.
Can you tell us about the book club?
Can anybody join?
Tell us about your book club.
Sure, I can tell you all thatgreat stuff.
So I first off, I started thisbook club five years ago.
Oh, five years ago in January.
Five years.
I can't believe it.
Right before the pandemic.
So there you go.
And I did it because, A, Ilove to read, I love historical fiction,
(35:07):
and two, B, I wanted todevelop an audience for what I was
writing.
And how better to do that thanto share what I like to write, read
with people so that they, youknow, will become passionate along
with me as they, as theydiscover my.
My own writing.
So it is.
We meet.
It's via Zoom.
(35:29):
I have 2300 members right now.
I was shocked when I looked atthe numbers yesterday.
We read only read currentrelease historical fiction.
When I say current release,I'm talking about within the last
year.
So it's current releaseauthors that are writing great books.
I pre read each book and thenif I like the book, I invite the
(35:49):
author to join us.
And I'd say about nine timesout of ten, the author will join
us for our monthlydiscussions, which are on Thursdays,
the fourth Thursday of everymonth at 7pm Eastern, which is probably
a Little early for you folksin the west coast, but it's, it's,
it's a great book club and youdon't have to, you don't have to
necessarily come in on theZoom call.
We do post the videos of thecalls on YouTube.
(36:12):
I also have.
Each person will get.
Every month you'll get a bookclub kit which includes a summary
of the book, my take on thebook, my, my review of it, recipes
that we come up with that sortof go along with the book theme.
Cocktails both non alcoholicand alcoholic for those who don't
want to imbibe, and a list ofquestions that you can consider to
(36:34):
ask the author or to askyourself or to explore.
And when the author comes on,it's pretty intense.
I mean, we don't let theauthor get off lightly.
I mean, I've got some greatgals and guys that are in the book
club that join us.
I've had about 60 folks thatcome in on Zoom every, every month.
Sometimes more, sometimes less.
I've had the most interestingauthor I had was Sarah Ferguson,
(36:58):
the Duchess of York.
She joined us with one of herbooks that she had written.
I've had Mark Sullivan, whowrites with James Patterson.
I've had Stephanie Dre last month.
I have this month, AmandaSkenendor, her book Menace Woman
of Galveston.
And it's free.
Anybody can join and get onthat list and you'll get all those
book club materials.
I do lots of giveaways.
(37:19):
We do contests, we do special readings.
We have all kinds of activities.
I even send, what I call, youknow, merch.
You get swag.
Sometimes I send bookmarks.
I've sent book bags to our followers.
And so it's a great club andI'm just happy that it's going as
well and people are enjoying it.
Wow.
So it's at my website, David,which is really easy.
(37:41):
It's just Sharonverts.com andthen you just go to read with Sharon
and join the book club andjust sign up.
All I need is your email andyour name.
That's it, huh?
That's all it takes?
That's it.
So now that you have thisclub, I have to ask because, you
know, it's virtual.
I'm sure they exist, but yoursis the first I've heard that is actually
virtual.
That's actually working outreally well because, you know, the
(38:01):
joke has been we all get lazybehind a camera at home and we close
the shade on the camera, fall asleep.
Have you met any of the peoplethat's in Your book club in person
at this point?
Absolutely.
So when I was on my book tourlast year, I drove up to Philadelphia
and had a number of book clubfolks in that area join me for a
(38:21):
reading from the new book.
I went up to Boston and metfolks there.
San Antonio.
I've met folks there.
Out in California.
I've met them there.
I've had folks.
You can believe this.
I have a huge party, releaseparty, November 2nd.
This year will be for thegreatest truth.
But last year, I had it rightafter the release, and I had folks
from Canada, Minnesota,Wisconsin, Iowa, Louisiana fly in
(38:46):
to be part of that book clubparty, the big party that we had.
I had a champagne receptionfor book club members before we did
the release.
So I've had folks come fromall over the country.
Plus there's a largecontingent of folks that have members
here.
And then I do like to go totalk to other book clubs.
So, for example, I have ameeting tomorrow.
Someone has asked me to comein and meet with their in person
(39:08):
here in my local area withtheir book club about my book from
last year.
And then I have another one onSaturday with folks from another
part of the country on Zoom.
So, you know, I'm happy tojoin book clubs, you know, in terms
of talking to folks about abook, if they're using my reading
my book for that month.
But I'm also just pleased thatfolks are so excited about, you know,
(39:28):
what we read and how weapproach what we read that they're
willing to drive or fly allthe way here to meet me and spend
a.
Spend an evening, you know, inour house.
So it's just a lovely experience.
It's lovely people.
Well, as an author, that's gotto make you feel good at least you
know that you're reachingpeople through your.
Through your books.
And you never know, really.
I mean, I don't know ifanybody's really expressed it to
(39:49):
you, because a lot of peopleare really shy about it, but who
knows how many lives you couldhave saved during the pandemic right
after that?
Because it was a lonely time.
You know, nobody knew what wasgoing on with the world.
You just chalked behind four walls.
You can't do anything right.
It was the biggest podcastboom ever.
In 2000 or in the pandemic, wehad all of these podcasts.
(40:13):
I think over a millionpodcasts was created in four months
of the pandemic.
Right.
Well, and I did things like Iwould go out to a graveyard, surprise,
surprise, and do a live videothing on Facebook.
You Know, for folks thatwanted to follow along.
And then I would do.
I went to an old home here, anold plantation home, and we visited
(40:36):
the enslaved burial grounds,and we had a video there, and we're
talking about some of thenames of the folks that were buried
there.
And then we went up to thehouse and looked at the house and
talked about the folks thathad lived there and the kids.
It was for kids.
But a lot of folks got sort ofthe dichotomy in terms of how different.
Different sides lived back inthat time.
And so during the pandemic, Itried, you know, to get myself out
(40:58):
there.
It was outside, so I couldhave done it.
It was just me and my son with.
With his phone, you know, butit was.
It was.
It was a time that was stressful.
And I do hope that the bookclub has helped folks.
I do know that a lot of themembers that I have, that core group,
were there in the beginning.
We had 30 members when I firststarted this.
It's shocking to me that it's 2300.
(41:21):
And these are folks that arejust really loyal.
And as I said, they'reconstantly asking me questions or
asking me for advice on a bookto read or giving me advice on something
I should select.
So I'm just grateful for themand hopefully hopeful that they are
enjoying it as much as I am.
I think they are.
So you have to tell us, whatis the fascination with graveyards?
(41:43):
I don't.
I just don't know.
I just.
I go to a graveyard and Ienvision the people that live there
in their lives.
I can.
I just look at a family andgo, here's a whole family.
And then I wonder, is that theend of this family?
Did they have, you know, didthey all die out, or do they still
have descendants and how they live?
(42:04):
And you can look at thetombstone and some of the things
that are written on them and.
And get a sense of, you know,how, you know something about them.
I just said, it's an imagined thing.
And I.
I find peace there.
It's quiet.
No one bothers me.
You know, I don't have.
Although I have to tell you,this is a.
I was actually in thegraveyard not long ago, and someone
(42:24):
saw my car drive in, and shefollowed me, and she goes, hey, Sharon,
I need to talk to you about something.
I'm like.
Like, this is my time.
I'm in the graveyard.
Can I have some peace?
But usually that's.
With the one exception.
I find peace in the.
In there.
And I find it a Time for reflection.
(42:44):
I have not done the nighttimegraveyard things, though, David.
I'm not quite that brave yet,but because I think that Tony, who
runs the one down here, UnionCemetery, would probably have my
head if you saw me in thereafter dark.
He's already threatened methat if I, if I stay too long, he's
going to lock me out.
But whenever we go on a trip,I'm always taking my husband, dragging
(43:04):
him through the graveyard,looking at the tombstones and the
ages of people and how theywere buried and just anything about
them.
He's come to realize that it'sjust a thing I do.
But back in the 1880s, peopleused to have sunny picnics in the
graveyards.
They would take their childrenand go lay blankets out on the graves
(43:26):
of their other relatives, andthey share Sunday afternoon picnics
with them.
So maybe that I'm an old soulthat's just, you know, reborn into
a new body or something, Idon't know.
But I do have a fascinationwith them.
I enjoy them.
I tell all your followers,your listeners, please go visit your
local graveyard.
You know, you'll find somepeace there and some reflection.
(43:49):
So I assume that you are a fanof the film Beetlejuice.
Indeed, yes.
I haven't seen the new oneyet, but that's.
That's coming up soon, right?
We haven't either.
We, we never go in the firstweek or so because it's always crazy.
And it's so big that they diddown here at a number of the California
theaters, a pre show, so youcould get tickets to go two or three
(44:11):
days early.
The last time I did that waswith a friend of mine when Michael
Jackson was releasing May HeRest in Peace, this is it in the
theater.
And I was like, it was crazy then.
And Beetlejuice, Beetlejuicehas been talked about.
Say, no, wait, we gonna skipit this year.
But we're looking forward toseeing it, what Tim Burton has come
up with after all these years.
So, yeah, I like a little quirky.
My stepdaughter and I had thatin common.
(44:33):
We both like quirky.
I paint quirky stuff and shelikes quirky stuff.
And I'm not afraid of, youknow, I'm not afraid of ghosts.
Not yet, anyway.
So.
So now that you've describedthe book, can you tell us why you
think somebody should go outand read the Grace of Truth?
(44:53):
Well, I think if you like truecrime, if you like true things that
happened, I mean, this is notsomething I just conjured up out
of my head.
It actually did Happen.
But if you like those kinds ofthings and you like a good mystery,
and you like a little bit offorensic science, 1870s style, okay,
it's not the.
The new thing, but if you likeCSI and those kinds of programs,
(45:16):
this is the kind of bookyou're going to love.
And I find that there'ssomething about reading a book that
a film just doesn't portray.
Now, yes, you get all thebeautiful effects in a film, but
I do find that reading, Ilearn a lot more.
I can do it at my own pace,and I can have my own vision of what's
happening.
(45:36):
And I just find, I thinkthat's just.
Is a great way to understand,you know, sort of the world around
us in general, butspecifically in this case, to understand
exactly how women and crimewas investigated 150 years ago.
And it's frightening,especially when you look at, you
know, in real life, some ofthe statistics, the statistics on,
(46:01):
you know, crime and who wasbeing accused and what sentences
were coming down.
It's.
It's pretty shocking.
And you can see why when youlook at some of the science in this
book.
Who's getting off, who's notgetting off, how people are being
treated.
And women weren't beingtreated terribly well in the 1870s
either.
So it's.
It's a lesson in that.
(46:21):
In closing, is there anythingyou would like to say to the listeners
or to your fans out there thatcould be listening today?
Well, I think that it'simportant for everybody to read.
I think we've.
We've kind of lost that in ourinstantaneous society.
We tend to want to watch a TVshow and then be done for two hours.
(46:41):
But there's something, Ithink, unique about and wonderful
about getting engrossed andgoing into another world for 8, 10,
12 hours, depending on howlong it is in a book.
And with that, I think, youknow, there's a lot of great fiction
out there, a lot of greathistorical fiction out there and
try it.
I think my books, if you likeThings that Move Quickly, will be
(47:03):
a great introduction tohistorical fiction in a way you haven't
experienced before.
Trust me, I'm not boring.
My books aren't boring.
I don't want to live a boring life.
I don't want to waste your time.
I want you to fall in lovewith reading again.
And I think you'll fall inlove with Jane Gray and the Grays
of Truth.
Well, Sharon, thank you forcoming on today.
(47:23):
It has been enlightening.
Definitely not boring.
Everybody should make surethey get a copy of this book even
if you don't like historical fiction.
And I think if you try thisone out that you will definitely
enjoy it.
It's been a pleasure.
Anytime that you want to comeback on the show, you know my information,
please get a hold of me.
Be honored to have you come back.
(47:44):
Well, thank you so much David.
It's been wonderful joiningyou and your and your fans this afternoon.
Thank you so much.
All right guys, that was thegreat Sharon Vertz.
You can get your copy of theGrades of Truth when it's released
release on October 29, 2024.
You can pre order it right nowover at Amazon wherever books are
(48:05):
sold.
I want to thank you guys onceagain for joining us today.
I know that you do have manychoices in True Crime Interview podcast
and I am grateful that for thelast two and a half years you have
chosen me.
You have been listening to theonly three faceted podcast of its
kind.
Be good to yourself and eachother and always remember, always
(48:27):
stay humbled.
An act of kindness can makesomeone's day.
A little love and compassioncan go a long way.
And remember that there is anextraordinary person in all of us.
I'll catch you guys on thenext one.
Don't forget to rate, commentand subscribe.
(48:48):
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art and logo designed by Arslith.
Sound mixing and Editing byDavid McLam.
Intro Script by Sophie Wildeand David McLam.
(49:08):
Legendary by New AlchemistIntroduction and ending credits by
Jackie Vois.
See you next time on True Crime.
Authors and extraordinary people.
Hey everybody, just a quickside note.
Before we get into today'sepisode, you will hear reference
to the book the Graves ofTruth before it was released.
This interview was shot backin September and Grades of Truth
has been released.
It was released October 29, 2024.
So when you hear me say andtalking to Sharon about, get your
(00:23):
copy and when it comes out, itis already out.
So let me say to Sharon Vertz,happy belated pub day.
Hope you guys go and get yourcopies and please enjoy this episode.
You will find Sharon Wirtz tobe very enlightening.
I'll catch you guys on thenext one.
You are seen.
(00:44):
You are worthy.
You are not alone.
The world loses one person tosuicide every 40 seconds.
Let's change the stats together.
We can say not suicide.
Not today.
Welcome to True Crime Authorsand Extraordinary People, the podcast
(01:08):
where we bring two passions together.
The show that gives newmeaning to the old adage truth is
stranger than fiction.
And reminding you that thereis an extraordinary person in all
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What's going on, everybody?
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(01:30):
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(01:52):
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All right, so if you'relooking at your calendars, you know,
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(02:12):
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Let me tell you about our guest.
She is a New York Timesbestselling author of atmospheric
historical mystery thrillers,each ripped from headlines and built
from her own research andoften with direct ties to her own
historical home in Virginia.
She is also the host of theRead with Sharon Book Club.
(02:36):
She is a passionate historian,science buff, philanthropist, winemaker,
and above all, a lifelong creator.
Whether it be art in a widevariety of mediums or the written
word.
She has journaled since shewas six years old and is compelled
to write daily.
She is the author of the Graysof Truth.
(02:58):
Please welcome, Sharon Virts.
Hey, Sharon.
Thank you for coming on the show.
Hi, David.
Thank you so much for havingme today.
It is honor and pleasure foryou to be here.
Oh, I am indeed honored to be here.
It's just a wonderfulexperience to be with you and all
your guests.
Well, I guess from thatintroduction, the question I begin
every episode with is, isthere anything else that we should
(03:18):
know sharing verts that wedon't know already?
Oh, I don't know.
I love to write.
I have three dogs.
I love my gardens, and I love graveyards.
Tell me I'm crazy, but there'ssomething about walking in a cemetery
that thrills me.
I don't know.
It's.
It's my thing.
Most of the sex sextons arethe guys that run the cemeteries
(03:39):
in my little town here, knowme, and they think that I'm the strange
woman that sits on graves andtalks to dead people.
So I don't actually.
They don't talk back.
That's a good thing.
But I do spend a lot of timeout there in cemeteries.
We can get into that.
Because I do know that there'sa part here I want to talk to you
about.
Because you believe that yourhouse was haunted, which also sparked
(04:00):
you to release this book we'regoing to talk about today, right
before Halloween.
So I think it's interestingthat you said that you like graveyards
on that.
But let's start here.
You've been writing since youwere 6 years old.
That's an awful long time.
We never ask a lady her age.
You don't look a day over 19.
Thank you.
How did you keep the passionto be writing all those years?
I think it's important forevery person to express themselves,
(04:23):
to take what's in their headand to end up and to get it out into
the universe.
Right?
So it could be either throughthe written word or through art.
Art or through music orwhatever it might be.
Because I think we hold backour emotions and what we feel and
what we're experiencing, thenit festers, right?
And then we think bad thoughtsand we do things we shouldn't do.
(04:45):
To me, I think writing is like journaling.
I mean, it's like.
Like therapy.
Journaling is like therapy,you know, like you go to a shrink
and you talk about all your problems.
Well, me and the paper havewords about, you know, what is facing
me in my life each day.
And it's a great way, I think,for me to cope with whatever stress,
whatever, you know, God throwsat me or the devil throws at me or
(05:05):
whoever throws at me.
It's.
It's my way of relieving thattension and working my problems out
for myself.
And I think that's a, a goodthing that everybody could practice.
I also think it's wonderfulfor us to all capture our legacy.
If we don't tell our stories,who will?
And I really encourage myfollowers to journal every day to
(05:28):
express themselves.
On Fridays, I give journalingprompts on my social media to help
folks walk through what theymight be thinking or feeling.
And we pick different themes,different topics, different approaches.
But it's really, reallyimportant, I think, for everyone
to tell their story.
So speaking of that, since youencourage people to journal every
day, I kind of want to knowyour take on this because now there's
(05:49):
a lot of companies like Applethat is honing in on journaling.
You know, they've put articlesout there stating is important for
the mental health, kind ofwhat you touched on.
How do you feel about digitaljournaling apps versus writing things
down?
My wife is very old school.
She will just write in a journal.
She doesn't want to doanything with a phone.
Do you think there's a vastdifference in those?
(06:11):
I think it depends on the generation.
I mean, so for example, mystepdaughter, when she goes to a
meeting, she brings her laptopand she types when someone's, you
know, to take notes.
I could never in a thousandyears do that.
I just don't work that way.
I grew up with paper.
You know, I got a new computer recently.
It's driving me crazy.
I had, you know, that one Ihad for eight years.
Now I got a new one.
I don't know how to use itvery well.
So I think it's whatever fitsyour style, whatever is you're comfortable
(06:36):
with, as long as you're doing it.
I mean, some people needphotographs or need a picture to
write about.
Some folks write letters, youknow, to themselves or to the journal.
Dear Diary.
Everyone has a differentapproach and a different style.
I say to each his own,Whatever works.
I just think that the youngergeneration is going to have an easier
(06:56):
time with digital as opposedto some of those folks who've been
around the sun a couple of times.
Good answer, Good answer.
I tell my wife you said sheshould burn all her journals.
I'm just kidding.
No, well.
Well, sometimes I do worryabout if my, if my children see mine,
some of them, I'm going, oh,my goodness.
But what's interesting is thatyou never know what, where they're
(07:18):
going to.
So, for example, I'm workingon a project now and I found a journal
that a woman here in thislocal area, her name was Ida Lee
Rust, she kept this journalfor a journal from the 1880s until
the 1920s.
And you know, I'm sure there'sa lot of things that she wrote in
there that she doesn't likepeople, like, wouldn't like folks
(07:38):
like me to be reading.
But I also get a really goodsense of what people were experiencing
in that time period based on,you know, where they were in society
and her viewpoints on, youknow, events of the day as well as
just day to day activities.
You know, her children notgoing to church enough or her, her
(07:59):
son not being involved with awoman that she didn't particularly
like, all the kind of thingsthat we deal with, but how she addressed
it or how that person lookedat those problems, took on those
challenges, you know, 100years ago versus the way you or I
might today, it's, it's alittle different.
You know, we wouldn't, I don'tknow that I would go to church and
(08:20):
pray over every day over whomy son was dating, you know, but
back then that was, you know,religion was really a big part of
society that everyone lived in.
So it's just, I think it'sjust really important to capture
your experiences, capture yourfeelings for the next generation.
And you know what, you'll bedead and gone.
So who cares what they tellyour wife?
Who cares what she wrote?
(08:41):
You know, we'll just, we'rejust glad to have a piece of her
left behind.
Well, that was kind of mything too.
You know, everybody startedcoming with digital journals.
I'm like, man, maybe I wantsome things to take to my grave.
I mean, even to the point nowto where Apple has gotten hit so
hard with, you know, I'm surethe people's doing nefarious things,
but, you know, why can't Ihide this app and why can't I lock
this app and now they justrecently fix it where you can't exactly
(09:03):
do exactly that.
We've had recent people inour, in our lives pass away, and
then some of the things youfind out, you're like, whoa, you
know, was I ever supposed tosee this?
But that's why I brought that up.
So to each his own.
Do your thing.
Exactly right.
So before we get into yourbook, the other interesting thing
about you is you had a passionproject with the full restoration
(09:26):
of your property, gardens and everything.
You said it was a labor oflove in Selma, Virginia.
Can you Tell us a little bitabout that.
Yeah, sure.
So it's actually.
It's called.
It's called Selma Mansion.
And it is in Virginia,Northern Virginia, near Leesburg.
And it was originally owned.
It was part of a large tractof land that was owned by the Mason
(09:46):
family.
George Mason III drowned inthe river.
He left three children and hiswife behind, and he was a young man
when he drowned.
And he had not reallydeveloped an inheritance for them.
So his wife, Ann ThompsonMason, bought 10,000 acres, if you
can believe that, back in 1740or some really early age, long, long
time ago.
And she gifted this tract ofland to her youngest son, Thompson
(10:09):
Mason.
Another tract she gave to herolder son, George Basin iv, which
was now Gun.
We have a small piece of that land.
Originally, it was owned bythe Masons.
And, you know, one Mason dies,and they divide it up among other
Masons.
And so the house, originallySelma, was built in 1810, and it
was burned, or most of itburned down in 1896, except for the
(10:31):
domestic enslaved quarters,which is now attached to the main
house.
And it's my favorite part ofthe house.
I'll tell you about that in a minute.
But it was rebuilt in 1902 bythe whites after a long period of
time.
They lived here and ultimatelybecame abandoned in about the late
90s.
And so it had been abandonedabout 20 years when we bought it.
And it spoke to me.
(10:52):
It was just a beautiful oldhome, you know, 18,000 square feet.
I mean, a hot mess.
I mean, we had vandals,varmints, and, you know, all kinds
of stuff going on here.
We had, you know, groundhogsliving underneath the house.
We had snakes in the basement.
We had, you know, birds livingand nesting, vines coming inside,
(11:12):
water coming through the roof.
So it took us about two years.
My husband and I, we restoredit and we brought it back to life.
And for the old part, a treehad fallen on the old enslaved quarters,
which is.
Which was the old kitchen.
At some point, the countywanted us to tear it down because
they said that it had beencompromised so terribly, it wouldn't
be able to sustain anybodyliving in it.
(11:34):
So we brought in old masons,masons from Jamestown who were descended
from the enslaved Masons themselves.
Great guys.
Their names, you'll love this,were Cheetah and Smoke.
And they.
They were wonderful men.
And they.
They taught our Masons herehow to restore these old bricks in
this old part of the house.
(11:54):
And it is gorgeous.
They have redone the whole thing.
We left it sort of like thatnew York loft, you know, brick and
beams exposed and you know,it's not the sexy mansion that the
rest of the place is, but it'swhere I do a lot of writing.
And I have, I've had momentswhere I felt like the house is talking
to me, telling me to writecertain things or to do certain things
(12:17):
in that part of the house.
And I just really enjoy it.
So labor of love.
And I really do find that whatinspires a lot of the things I write
is not just an event that hasoccurred or a person that's been
involved, but the sense of place.
You know, the place itselfbecomes a character almost.
And I don't know, when you'rereading my new book, Grays, if you've,
(12:38):
you've sort of felt that wayas you've listened to Jane Gray talk
about when she's walking downto the streets of Washington D.C.
and sees the half builtWashington Monument begging the sky,
the heavens for completion.
If you get a sense of thatsense of place and that environment
and it's important.
And I use this house sort ofas that backdrop when I'm trying
(12:59):
to envision what it must belike to live there.
I try to look at myself.
How would I have cooked inthis kitchen if it was wood stove,
you know, versus or how wouldI, how would we have heated it?
How would that have worked?
The house to me serves a lotof inspiration and sort of fuels
my love of history andhistorical preservation.
I've received many awards fromthe Virginia Preservation Society
(13:22):
and others for the work thatwe've done here.
And on another property that Ihave restored in Leesburg, an old
Victorian that was in bad shape.
So is this the same mansion?
Because when you go and lookup Selma, Virginia, a big article
pops up that says that therewas a mansion that had been restored.
So is this the same mansion inwhich you speak of?
Yes, it is.
(13:43):
Well, that's kind of awesome.
Yeah, we have a big following.
It used to be a wedding venueand I think the number is about 3,000
couples were married in aperiod of 30 some odd years, 35 years
at this place.
So there's a lot of folks whohave been married here and who have
memories, some of them goodmemories and some of them, you know,
(14:04):
didn't end up so well.
So they may be bad memories,but a lot of folks have been married
here.
And so we have a lot, have hada lot of interest in the houses,
like, and every year I put upabout eight Christmas trees and I
open it to the public and allthe Proceeds from the ticket sales
for that event goes to Loudoun.
Historical preservation, youknow, preservation initiatives here
(14:25):
in our county.
Whether it's, you know, a bighistorical house or if it's a small
place, it doesn't reallymatter to us as long as we're taking
care of the past so that wehave it for future generations to
learn.
Now, this home before, I said,let me say this.
I'm glad you said that,because as you probably know, there's
been this big controversy overthe last couple years about removing
(14:46):
monuments, especially onesthat deals with slavery and deals
with my people.
We never asked for that.
I'm one of those people thatbelieve that even though those monuments
may be painful, it is a partof history.
When I tell my childrenstories of this may happen here or
in states that still haveslave auction blocks, and I say,
(15:08):
that's what biz used to behere, it's kind of hard for them
to grasp that if I go, well,it used to be here, but now it's
not.
So I'm glad that you arerestoring history and opening it
up.
Never be ashamed of thestories that was there.
Yeah.
And I want to tell yousomething about that in particular.
So I had a countyadministrator here.
We did an open house.
(15:29):
And when she was walkingthrough, she said she didn't want
to go into the enslaved quarter.
She just had.
She felt very uncomfortablewith that.
And I said to her, her namewas Phyllis.
And I said, phyllis, what I'dlike for you to do is instead of
thinking about all the badthings that happen here, look at
the architecture, look at the brickwork.
The rest of the place isburned down.
(15:50):
This is still standing.
Those men and children builtthis building with their own hands,
with their own sweat, and theytook pride in it.
Look at the quality of the craftsmanship.
Go in there and rejoice that,because that's the only legacy that
we have of them.
We don't know their names.
We don't know who they were.
We know nothing about themother than what we see in this building.
(16:13):
And we should be proud of thatfor them.
They want us to be proud of.
That's all they left behind orthe things that they built.
I think we need to think aboutthat in terms of, you know, that's
the legacy.
That's all they.
They could leave.
So let's.
Let's at least respect that.
And when you go into mykitchen, you'll find thumbprints
in the brick from the boys andthe men who made the.
(16:37):
Molded the clay and pickedthose hot Bricks up as they were,
and put them down to cool orto put them in the oven to bake.
And you find thosethumbprints, and we've restored them.
I found three in that group,and I was working on a building downtown
with my crew, and we weretearing down old plaster, and I found
two thumbprints in those, andI point them out.
It was actually a historical building.
(16:57):
The museum is there now, andthey have that on display so folks
can see that and we can talkabout it.
I think that's important forus to share.
It is shared history.
It's good and it's bad andit's ugly.
And the thing I want to do is rejoice.
Not rejoice, but at leastcelebrate those men and women who
work so hard, they do havesomething to leave behind.
(17:18):
They have something to say,and they say it in the buildings
that we see that they built.
We should not forget that.
Now, you say that you feelthat the house is haunted and has
its own haunted history.
I say spirited, David.
Spirited.
Spirited is better.
Haunted seems bad.
Spirited is a lot easier wordfor me.
Okay, spirited.
(17:39):
So you fill the house with.
Spirited has its own historywith that.
Now, this has also sparked youto release your book on October 29,
two days before Halloween.
Can you tell us why you feelthat the house is indeed spirited?
Have you experienced some ofthis yourself?
Oh, yes.
So there's a number of things,but the.
The baking bread.
(17:59):
So I've never seen a spirit here.
I felt them.
Them.
I've heard them.
I've seen stuff get moved.
And I swear to God, I.
You know, hand to God, I don'tknow how it moved across the table,
how things happen like that,but I smell them more than anything
else.
And every once.
How do I say this?
So a couple years ago, it wasjust recently, we heard it had it
(18:22):
happen again.
We had a psychic person kindof go through, and she said there
was four, she thinks, fourspirits living in this house.
And one of them was a womanthat was a little.
A little black woman, AfricanAmerican woman that lived, she thinks,
in the.
In that old enslaved area.
And she was a cook or somesort of servant or something.
That's what she says.
(18:42):
And who knows, right?
So maybe it's just in yourbrain you're thinking this, but I
got up one morning, and ourdogs always sleep with.
We have three Labrador retrievers.
I open the door to my bedroombecause they want to go downstairs
with this routine.
I go into the morning room,which is right next door.
I put my teapot on to make tea.
There's dog biscuits and dogtreats in there.
(19:02):
So I give them a treat every morning.
So they go beelining out ofthe bedroom into that morning room.
Every morning they get theirdog biscuits and then they go outside.
That's kind of the routine.
So I get up this morning, thatmorning, it was August 1st a couple
years ago, I open the door andI have the smell of baking bread
everywhere.
You know that smell, thatbeautiful, wonderful, lovely smell
(19:24):
of fresh baked bread.
And I'm going, well, that's strange.
And the dogs sort of stop andinstead of going into the morning
room, they hightail itdownstairs and go into the kitchen.
So I wasn't the only one thatsmelled the baking bread.
They smelled it too.
And then just a few weeks ago,we were doing the.
(19:46):
The book trailer.
We were filming the trailerfor the Grace of Truth and what we
call our smoking room.
It's the old architecturalplans and that's where they had a
smoking room.
And the photographer, theactress, my marketing team, we were
all sort of standing aroundand all of a sudden everyone smells
it at the same time, the bigsmell of baking bread.
(20:09):
And I said, I'm telling you guys.
And they're going, oh, you'reright, we smell it.
So it's an odd thing.
And I think this, this houseloves to entertain.
It loves when we have parties.
You can feel it.
It's very positive energy.
It's not negative energy.
I've had experience withthings being moved around and the
(20:30):
doors being locked and doorsopening and dogs being let in, the
doors shutting and that kindof stuff.
But mostly in that back halfwith my little friend who likes to
bake bread, I haven't got aname for, but I just know she's there.
But it's a lovely home.
And if anybody is in Virginiathe second Sunday in December, we
always have an afternoon openhouse where all the trees are lit.
(20:54):
We have Santa Claus here andlots of hot mulled cider and desserts
for anyone who'd like to come.
So it's open.
Well, now, that leads us intoyour book, the Grays of Truth.
I'm going to read just alittle bit of the synopsis just to
whet the audience appetite,and then we'll dive into it.
In reconstruction areaBaltimore, members of the city's
(21:14):
elite keep turning up dead.
Below the polished surface ofhigh society.
There are illicit affairs,jilted lovers, financial hardships,
and countless motives for murder.
When Jane Gray Wharton'shusband Ned dies unexpectedly while
overnighting at his brotherHank Wharton's home, Jane has no
reason to question thecircumstances of his death.
(21:36):
But as a visit to the samehome a few weeks later, both Jane
and her daughter fall gravely ill.
And Jane begins to suspectfoul play.
If that doesn't whet yourappetite, nothing will.
So as intriguing as out, thisis historical fiction, but that sounds
like something that can verywell happen today.
Tell us a little bit of howyou came to write the Grades of Truth,
(21:59):
and can you go a little bitinto the characters of the book,
starting with Jane?
Sure.
So I was researching, workingon another book that.
My book that came out lastyear, the Veil of Doubt.
And it's a sort of like ahistorical fiction, John Grisham
kind of legal sort of thriller.
And when I was looking at thehistory of the professor who was
(22:21):
a chemical analysis.
I'm sorry, the chemicalanalyst in that book, in that story,
in real life, I became veryinterested in him because he married
Susanna Surratt, who was thedaughter of Mary Surratt, who was
tried and hanged for theassassination of President Lincoln.
So that sort of intrigued me.
So I thought the book might beabout him.
(22:41):
You know, he's like a forensicscientist in 1870.
How cool is that?
And I learned that he hadtestified in a trial before the one
that I was writing about in my.
In my second book, Veil.
And that trial was about theWharton family.
And I became really intrigued.
And so I started researching.
And lo and behold, members ofthe Wharton family in Baltimore,
(23:02):
every time they went to Hankand Ellen Wharton's house, they wouldn't
come out alive.
I mean, six, seven people.
So it's a little strange of a story.
And so the more I dug into it,the more I realized that something
truly was nefarious going on.
But I didn't know from whoseperspective to write it from.
Was I going to write it fromone of the victims?
(23:24):
Someone had been killed, wasgoing to write it from maybe the
sheriff or the police captain,Jake Fry, who was investigating,
but then, of course, wasthwarted by the governor and other
political folks above him interms of the pecking order in Baltimore.
Whose perspective would it be?
And then when I was looking attrial notes, I saw several letters
(23:45):
from a woman named Jane GrayWharton who had written these letters
that said, ellen has beenkilling, you know, members of my
household, and somebody needsto do something about it.
And the more I researchedTort, the more intrigued I became.
She.
Her father was a brilliantchemist and a brilliant doctor, and
she had an interest in chemistry.
(24:07):
She had gone to university.
It was unbelievably rare forsomeone in her world, you know, born
in 1819 to go to a four yearcollege and get a degree.
She was married to a man shedidn't want to be married to.
And she spent long stints inhospitals, Quaker hospitals for debility.
(24:29):
That is code word in 1860,1870, for she's crazy.
So mental illness.
So she had been sent away andthat's the reason no one was believing
her accusations of her sisterin law.
So I was compelled to write afictionalized version of the story.
(24:50):
To write nonfiction to me is boring.
As you and I probably spoke.
We spoke about in the greenroom before we had this discussion.
I wanted to make thisinteresting and exciting and I wanted
to make you feel for thevictims who were dying.
And so having her having arelationship with most of the people
who were impacted by what washappening at Hamilton Place in Baltimore,
(25:11):
I thought, you know, thatwould make you as a reader feel more
empathy for what was happeningand more sympathy and just be more,
you know, more involved andmore connected to the story.
And I love Jane Gray.
I think she's a great, youknow, a very pathetic protagonist
in the beginning.
(25:31):
And with all that's thrown ather, she grows.
And she may not get what shewants at the end of the book, but
she gets what she needs.
And I think that's what's mostimportant not only in fiction, but
in real life.
Well, yeah, like we said offthe air, you know, I am not a huge
historical fiction person.
You're the second historicalfiction author that I like because
(25:52):
of the detail of the book.
It makes me feel like it couldhappen today.
It's not drawn out right.
So we really get into the bookand we get to know right away what's
going on and getting investedin it.
The detail of your book isoften done so well that you really
can't tell between what's realand what's not.
So what is your writingprocess with that?
(26:12):
You know, how do you researchall your characters beforehand and
things of that nature?
So, you know, a lot of folksfocus on the event when they research.
I like to focus on the people.
So of course I want to knowabout the event and I get what I
need to have about that.
But then my big tool is ancestry.com.
i go into ancestry and try tofigure out birth order, you know,
(26:36):
mother, father, when theylived, when they died, did they die
when, you know, a characterwas 2 or did they die when she was
12 or did they die when shewas 30?
What about brothers and sisters?
What about husbands?
What about children?
The.
All the things you can find out.
There's so much you can findout in terms of how life's events
(26:58):
would have impact on anindividual to kind of paint pictures
about what that person mightbe like.
And then, of course, I try toget writings, any writing I can find
from them.
If it's a woman, it's verydifficult because women didn't get
published very often.
So I'd look at the fathers andthe brothers and the husbands and
the cousins and the folks thatrelated to them and how they were
(27:20):
to understand what I mightneed to know about a particular character.
And then I sort of.
I basically put up awhiteboard or a butcher paper and
kind of go through what theylook like, what characteristics,
what trauma there might havebeen in their past that would impact
their present behavior.
I oftentimes work with apsychologist who's a very good friend
(27:41):
of mine, Julie Fender.
She and I will sit down and wewill come up with sort of a diagnosis,
if you will, especially for myvery damaged characters in my books.
And then making sure that onceI sort of develop that personality
for each person that I'm goingto be, each character that I'm consistent,
that, you know, I'm going towrite Hank Wharton as he was.
(28:04):
You know, he's not asentimental old guy as much as he
is a rake.
So he's going to have a wholedifferent set of ways he reacts to
something that would bedifferent than, let's say General
Scott Ketchum or Mars Stantonor whoever it might be that I'm profiling.
So, you know, trying to keepwith how they would be acting and
how they would be conversingbased on their personalities.
(28:25):
And that's really important to me.
And then you place them in atimeline, and I am a whiteboard kind
of gal.
And I get sticky notes, likethese little things, post it notes,
and I put dates and events andthings that are important, and I
put them on a timeline andthen introduce my characters into
those and then look at myoverall timing that says, okay, what's
(28:46):
going to happen?
Where am I going to start?
Where am I going to end?
Number one thing is the mostimportant thing in writing is to
know how the book is going toend before you even start.
If you don't know how it'sgoing to end, then you really can't
get there and you're all overthe place.
And so I always write myending first.
And that came to me fromadvice I received from a really good
friend of mine.
Anthony McCartan.
(29:07):
Anthony wrote the Darkest Hour.
He's screenplay writer.
He wrote Bohemian Rhapsody,the biopic on Whitney Houston.
He did that as well.
The Theory of Everything.
Two popes is a great man.
And so he always said, you gotto know that ending and where that
ending is going to take you,so you know where to go and how to
get there.
(29:28):
And so I just sort of lay itout and then I outline and then just
start writing and I write thefirst three chapters.
I gotta get those done.
And that sets the tone for therest of the book.
Oftentimes I'll skip chapters.
I'm like, I don't like this character.
I'm not going to read that.
I'm going to sort of go.
I'm going to go here and here.
Right now in the book I'mwriting, I'm.
I'm writing two women, asopposed to the men who are really
(29:48):
driving things.
The women are much moreinteresting in this book.
So I've been writing theirpieces now that I'll go back and
fill in later.
So it's just, you know,however that that strikes me.
But I'm relatively organized.
I have a hard time withstructure, but once I get my structure
down, it's just writing, youknow, as it.
As it flows to me.
(30:09):
And your characters do evolveover time.
I mean, Jane Gray became moreand more interesting as I wrote her,
and she became less and lesslike Axa, who.
I love Axa in that book.
Axa became her sort of sidekick.
You know, the person that, youknow, that tells you the truth, whether
you want to hear the truth or not.
Everybody needs one of those.
(30:29):
She's also the person that she probably.
Jane probably would get introuble with if she was, you know,
left alone in today's society.
You know, they were sort oftwo peas in a pod, but different.
Different people in this book.
Anyway, I don't like to give awhole lot of the book away because
it's not out yet.
Part of my job I love the mostis I get to read people's books before
they come out.
(30:49):
So I already know what theorder is getting into besides will
be read and safely so that weget people to go buy your book.
What can you give us about the book?
The intricacies, a little bitmore about the characters.
What was going on during thatperiod of time that you wrote your
book in?
Okay, so the book is set, itstarts in 1867, and mostly in Washington,
(31:12):
D.C.
and Baltimore and a little bitin Philadelphia.
And it's right after the Civil War.
And Jane Gray has served as anurse at Armory Square.
Armory Square is the hospitalthat was set up next to the Armory
Armory on the Washington Mall.
And it was next to the train station.
You know, they were bringinghim back from Alexandria or wherever
it might be in the south.
(31:32):
And it was the stop.
It was the hospital closest tothe train.
And only the patients thatwere the most severely injured would
stay there if they were tooseverely injured to travel to any
other hospital any further.
They stopped right there atArmory Square.
So she saw some of the worstof the casualties on the Union side
(31:53):
from the Civil War.
So that's kind of her background.
So she's pretty numb in a lotof ways.
And she's in an abusive marriage.
And she hears voices.
She hears voices in her head.
And I'm not going to tell youwhere the voices are coming from
or why they're.
Why they're in her head, butthat's one of the reasons she talks
to herself.
And people think that she'sodd and that she's strange, but she's
(32:14):
also very smart, but she'salso very withdrawn, an introverted
kind of person.
So she is.
Starts in 1867 and the firstchapter is available for anybody
who wants to read it online.
And pretty much every clue youneed for how that book's going to
go is in that first chapter.
A lot of questions about whyher best friend is dying and what's
(32:38):
the background, what's causing that.
And it leads to a lot of othersort of clues throughout the book
in terms of why peoplecontinue to die when they visit her
sister in law's house in Baltimore.
The book is really about that.
And Jane's trying to discoverthe truth, and not just the truth
about what was happening toher family, but also her truth, what's
(32:59):
happening to her, why she isso traumatized and forcing her to
face her demons and basicallylearn to live with them.
And as she moves through andaccomplishes what she wants for herself,
that's what this book isreally about.
It's really Jane's journey.
(33:20):
And I think we all have that right.
David.
Every one of us have demonsthat we have to wrestle with.
And unfortunately we can'tjust cast them away.
They live within us.
And it's a matter of how wemanage them and how we learn to coexist
in a way that, you know, weall are all on a positive trajectory.
And we don't allow thosedemons to pull us down into the past
(33:42):
or pull us down into thingsthat we don't want to be or people
we don't want to be, behaviorswe don't want to continue.
And that's really what Jane'sjourney is about in a lot of ways.
And you get the true crime inthere too, right?
The who done it.
Always got to have one of those.
You know, my books are reallynever about what they're about.
They're, you know, my lastbook was about a woman who went on
(34:04):
trial for murdering herchildren and her husband.
But it wasn't about that.
It was about the lawyer andhis journey.
You know, this is about peopledying in Baltimore, but it's not
about that.
It's about Jane and her jury.
And I think most authors that are.
That are worth their salt willhave that.
You know, there's two.
There's two things going on in every.
In every good book, right?
The plot.
(34:24):
But then what's really goingon with that character?
Well, it's going to be a goodread for sure.
We'll come back to that.
I have one more question toask you about the book for the audience.
Hope you guys are payingattention because it is going to
be a good book.
But I did want to touch onthis because I think it's very good.
You run your own historicalbook club called Read with Sharon.
(34:46):
It has a passionate group of followers.
Can you tell us about the book club?
Can anybody join?
Tell us about your book club.
Sure, I can tell you all thatgreat stuff.
So I first off, I started thisbook club five years ago.
Oh, five years ago in January.
Five years.
I can't believe it.
Right before the pandemic.
So there you go.
And I did it because, A, Ilove to read, I love historical fiction,
(35:07):
and two, B, I wanted todevelop an audience for what I was
writing.
And how better to do that thanto share what I like to write, read
with people so that they, youknow, will become passionate along
with me as they, as theydiscover my.
My own writing.
So it is.
We meet.
It's via Zoom.
(35:29):
I have 2300 members right now.
I was shocked when I looked atthe numbers yesterday.
We read only read currentrelease historical fiction.
When I say current release,I'm talking about within the last
year.
So it's current releaseauthors that are writing great books.
I pre read each book and thenif I like the book, I invite the
(35:49):
author to join us.
And I'd say about nine timesout of ten, the author will join
us for our monthlydiscussions, which are on Thursdays,
the fourth Thursday of everymonth at 7pm Eastern, which is probably
a Little early for you folksin the west coast, but it's, it's,
it's a great book club and youdon't have to, you don't have to
necessarily come in on theZoom call.
We do post the videos of thecalls on YouTube.
(36:12):
I also have.
Each person will get.
Every month you'll get a bookclub kit which includes a summary
of the book, my take on thebook, my, my review of it, recipes
that we come up with that sortof go along with the book theme.
Cocktails both non alcoholicand alcoholic for those who don't
want to imbibe, and a list ofquestions that you can consider to
(36:34):
ask the author or to askyourself or to explore.
And when the author comes on,it's pretty intense.
I mean, we don't let theauthor get off lightly.
I mean, I've got some greatgals and guys that are in the book
club that join us.
I've had about 60 folks thatcome in on Zoom every, every month.
Sometimes more, sometimes less.
I've had the most interestingauthor I had was Sarah Ferguson,
(36:58):
the Duchess of York.
She joined us with one of herbooks that she had written.
I've had Mark Sullivan, whowrites with James Patterson.
I've had Stephanie Dre last month.
I have this month, AmandaSkenendor, her book Menace Woman
of Galveston.
And it's free.
Anybody can join and get onthat list and you'll get all those
book club materials.
I do lots of giveaways.
(37:19):
We do contests, we do special readings.
We have all kinds of activities.
I even send, what I call, youknow, merch.
You get swag.
Sometimes I send bookmarks.
I've sent book bags to our followers.
And so it's a great club andI'm just happy that it's going as
well and people are enjoying it.
Wow.
So it's at my website, David,which is really easy.
(37:41):
It's just Sharonverts.com andthen you just go to read with Sharon
and join the book club andjust sign up.
All I need is your email andyour name.
That's it, huh?
That's all it takes?
That's it.
So now that you have thisclub, I have to ask because, you
know, it's virtual.
I'm sure they exist, but yoursis the first I've heard that is actually
virtual.
That's actually working outreally well because, you know, the
(38:01):
joke has been we all get lazybehind a camera at home and we close
the shade on the camera, fall asleep.
Have you met any of the peoplethat's in Your book club in person
at this point?
Absolutely.
So when I was on my book tourlast year, I drove up to Philadelphia
and had a number of book clubfolks in that area join me for a
(38:21):
reading from the new book.
I went up to Boston and metfolks there.
San Antonio.
I've met folks there.
Out in California.
I've met them there.
I've had folks.
You can believe this.
I have a huge party, releaseparty, November 2nd.
This year will be for thegreatest truth.
But last year, I had it rightafter the release, and I had folks
from Canada, Minnesota,Wisconsin, Iowa, Louisiana fly in
(38:46):
to be part of that book clubparty, the big party that we had.
I had a champagne receptionfor book club members before we did
the release.
So I've had folks come fromall over the country.
Plus there's a largecontingent of folks that have members
here.
And then I do like to go totalk to other book clubs.
So, for example, I have ameeting tomorrow.
Someone has asked me to comein and meet with their in person
(39:08):
here in my local area withtheir book club about my book from
last year.
And then I have another one onSaturday with folks from another
part of the country on Zoom.
So, you know, I'm happy tojoin book clubs, you know, in terms
of talking to folks about abook, if they're using my reading
my book for that month.
But I'm also just pleased thatfolks are so excited about, you know,
(39:28):
what we read and how weapproach what we read that they're
willing to drive or fly allthe way here to meet me and spend
a.
Spend an evening, you know, inour house.
So it's just a lovely experience.
It's lovely people.
Well, as an author, that's gotto make you feel good at least you
know that you're reachingpeople through your.
Through your books.
And you never know, really.
I mean, I don't know ifanybody's really expressed it to
(39:49):
you, because a lot of peopleare really shy about it, but who
knows how many lives you couldhave saved during the pandemic right
after that?
Because it was a lonely time.
You know, nobody knew what wasgoing on with the world.
You just chalked behind four walls.
You can't do anything right.
It was the biggest podcastboom ever.
In 2000 or in the pandemic, wehad all of these podcasts.
(40:13):
I think over a millionpodcasts was created in four months
of the pandemic.
Right.
Well, and I did things like Iwould go out to a graveyard, surprise,
surprise, and do a live videothing on Facebook.
You Know, for folks thatwanted to follow along.
And then I would do.
I went to an old home here, anold plantation home, and we visited
(40:36):
the enslaved burial grounds,and we had a video there, and we're
talking about some of thenames of the folks that were buried
there.
And then we went up to thehouse and looked at the house and
talked about the folks thathad lived there and the kids.
It was for kids.
But a lot of folks got sort ofthe dichotomy in terms of how different.
Different sides lived back inthat time.
And so during the pandemic, Itried, you know, to get myself out
(40:58):
there.
It was outside, so I couldhave done it.
It was just me and my son with.
With his phone, you know, butit was.
It was.
It was a time that was stressful.
And I do hope that the bookclub has helped folks.
I do know that a lot of themembers that I have, that core group,
were there in the beginning.
We had 30 members when I firststarted this.
It's shocking to me that it's 2300.
(41:21):
And these are folks that arejust really loyal.
And as I said, they'reconstantly asking me questions or
asking me for advice on a bookto read or giving me advice on something
I should select.
So I'm just grateful for themand hopefully hopeful that they are
enjoying it as much as I am.
I think they are.
So you have to tell us, whatis the fascination with graveyards?
(41:43):
I don't.
I just don't know.
I just.
I go to a graveyard and Ienvision the people that live there
in their lives.
I can.
I just look at a family andgo, here's a whole family.
And then I wonder, is that theend of this family?
Did they have, you know, didthey all die out, or do they still
have descendants and how they live?
(42:04):
And you can look at thetombstone and some of the things
that are written on them and.
And get a sense of, you know,how, you know something about them.
I just said, it's an imagined thing.
And I.
I find peace there.
It's quiet.
No one bothers me.
You know, I don't have.
Although I have to tell you,this is a.
I was actually in thegraveyard not long ago, and someone
(42:24):
saw my car drive in, and shefollowed me, and she goes, hey, Sharon,
I need to talk to you about something.
I'm like.
Like, this is my time.
I'm in the graveyard.
Can I have some peace?
But usually that's.
With the one exception.
I find peace in the.
In there.
And I find it a Time for reflection.
(42:44):
I have not done the nighttimegraveyard things, though, David.
I'm not quite that brave yet,but because I think that Tony, who
runs the one down here, UnionCemetery, would probably have my
head if you saw me in thereafter dark.
He's already threatened methat if I, if I stay too long, he's
going to lock me out.
But whenever we go on a trip,I'm always taking my husband, dragging
(43:04):
him through the graveyard,looking at the tombstones and the
ages of people and how theywere buried and just anything about
them.
He's come to realize that it'sjust a thing I do.
But back in the 1880s, peopleused to have sunny picnics in the
graveyards.
They would take their childrenand go lay blankets out on the graves
(43:26):
of their other relatives, andthey share Sunday afternoon picnics
with them.
So maybe that I'm an old soulthat's just, you know, reborn into
a new body or something, Idon't know.
But I do have a fascinationwith them.
I enjoy them.
I tell all your followers,your listeners, please go visit your
local graveyard.
You know, you'll find somepeace there and some reflection.
(43:49):
So I assume that you are a fanof the film Beetlejuice.
Indeed, yes.
I haven't seen the new oneyet, but that's.
That's coming up soon, right?
We haven't either.
We, we never go in the firstweek or so because it's always crazy.
And it's so big that they diddown here at a number of the California
theaters, a pre show, so youcould get tickets to go two or three
(44:11):
days early.
The last time I did that waswith a friend of mine when Michael
Jackson was releasing May HeRest in Peace, this is it in the
theater.
And I was like, it was crazy then.
And Beetlejuice, Beetlejuicehas been talked about.
Say, no, wait, we gonna skipit this year.
But we're looking forward toseeing it, what Tim Burton has come
up with after all these years.
So, yeah, I like a little quirky.
My stepdaughter and I had thatin common.
(44:33):
We both like quirky.
I paint quirky stuff and shelikes quirky stuff.
And I'm not afraid of, youknow, I'm not afraid of ghosts.
Not yet, anyway.
So.
So now that you've describedthe book, can you tell us why you
think somebody should go outand read the Grace of Truth?
(44:53):
Well, I think if you like truecrime, if you like true things that
happened, I mean, this is notsomething I just conjured up out
of my head.
It actually did Happen.
But if you like those kinds ofthings and you like a good mystery,
and you like a little bit offorensic science, 1870s style, okay,
it's not the.
The new thing, but if you likeCSI and those kinds of programs,
(45:16):
this is the kind of bookyou're going to love.
And I find that there'ssomething about reading a book that
a film just doesn't portray.
Now, yes, you get all thebeautiful effects in a film, but
I do find that reading, Ilearn a lot more.
I can do it at my own pace,and I can have my own vision of what's
happening.
(45:36):
And I just find, I thinkthat's just.
Is a great way to understand,you know, sort of the world around
us in general, butspecifically in this case, to understand
exactly how women and crimewas investigated 150 years ago.
And it's frightening,especially when you look at, you
know, in real life, some ofthe statistics, the statistics on,
(46:01):
you know, crime and who wasbeing accused and what sentences
were coming down.
It's.
It's pretty shocking.
And you can see why when youlook at some of the science in this
book.
Who's getting off, who's notgetting off, how people are being
treated.
And women weren't beingtreated terribly well in the 1870s
either.
So it's.
It's a lesson in that.
(46:21):
In closing, is there anythingyou would like to say to the listeners
or to your fans out there thatcould be listening today?
Well, I think that it'simportant for everybody to read.
I think we've.
We've kind of lost that in ourinstantaneous society.
We tend to want to watch a TVshow and then be done for two hours.
(46:41):
But there's something, Ithink, unique about and wonderful
about getting engrossed andgoing into another world for 8, 10,
12 hours, depending on howlong it is in a book.
And with that, I think, youknow, there's a lot of great fiction
out there, a lot of greathistorical fiction out there and
try it.
I think my books, if you likeThings that Move Quickly, will be
(47:03):
a great introduction tohistorical fiction in a way you haven't
experienced before.
Trust me, I'm not boring.
My books aren't boring.
I don't want to live a boring life.
I don't want to waste your time.
I want you to fall in lovewith reading again.
And I think you'll fall inlove with Jane Gray and the Grays
of Truth.
Well, Sharon, thank you forcoming on today.
(47:23):
It has been enlightening.
Definitely not boring.
Everybody should make surethey get a copy of this book even
if you don't like historical fiction.
And I think if you try thisone out that you will definitely
enjoy it.
It's been a pleasure.
Anytime that you want to comeback on the show, you know my information,
please get a hold of me.
Be honored to have you come back.
(47:44):
Well, thank you so much David.
It's been wonderful joiningyou and your and your fans this afternoon.
Thank you so much.
All right guys, that was thegreat Sharon Vertz.
You can get your copy of theGrades of Truth when it's released
release on October 29, 2024.
You can pre order it right nowover at Amazon wherever books are
(48:05):
sold.
I want to thank you guys onceagain for joining us today.
I know that you do have manychoices in True Crime Interview podcast
and I am grateful that for thelast two and a half years you have
chosen me.
You have been listening to theonly three faceted podcast of its
kind.
Be good to yourself and eachother and always remember, always
(48:27):
stay humbled.
An act of kindness can makesomeone's day.
A little love and compassioncan go a long way.
And remember that there is anextraordinary person in all of us.
I'll catch you guys on thenext one.
Don't forget to rate, commentand subscribe.
(48:48):
Join Us Social Media One linkto the link tree has it all.
Feel free to drop us a line attruecrimeandauthorsmail.com cover
art and logo designed by Arslith.
Sound mixing and Editing byDavid McLam.
Intro Script by Sophie Wildeand David McLam.
(49:08):
Legendary by New AlchemistIntroduction and ending credits by
Jackie Vois.
See you next time on True Crime.
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