October 17, 2025 • 58 mins
The Interrogation That Made Detectives Go Silent
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to your top true crime hob for the variety
in episodes you're looking for enjoy. You're gonna be under
risk for capital murder, capital.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Murder m h.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
M hm yeah, this song is not true.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hand real quick and then we'll do that and g
throws handcuffsft.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Okay something, I'll just sit here away.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Can you need something drinking thing?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Please?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Water?
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Was that quick enough for your brother?
Speaker 5 (00:32):
You go about mac remarker.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Usually Mike usually Mike.
Speaker 6 (00:36):
Okay, can you stand up for me? I'm gonna get
the HANDCUFFSFTU okay, m can you remember I take these
hankills soft of Yeah. I just needed to sit back
down with your friend card.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
No cross.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
H They're not completely awful. I'll let you sit back
down and turn around and then I'll take them out
the front sole fector h. This is what I was.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Talking about, was gonna take a swab of your hands.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Okay, you okay with her doing that?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You get three that's happening. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
We're gonna let her do this and get out here,
and then I'm all yours. Okay. Anything on the back side,
no cuts or I'm not kid he monopolo.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You should for it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You gotta I can't tell you about the scratch over here.
You gotta cat or something at the house.
Speaker 7 (01:33):
Three dogs and puppy.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Can I stand for a minute.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, sir, absolutely, I was car You were sitting there
for a long time. Give me just a second. Here's
a couple of water bot.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I'm gonna go ahead, and this my stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I haven't met you before. My name's Josh Armstrong. Okay,
I don't know you shake hands and you know coronavirus
is time.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't at least stay at home with both work
for a month.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay. What do you do for liv work for rafield?
Huh rafel rathe on? Is that the oil or gas defense? Okay, yeah,
h mm hmm, Mike, I told you my name Josh Armstrong.
(02:26):
This is a coyle peck. Okay, we're both. What's the time?
Is your legs? Okay? They get on a sleep?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Not right one, still trying, but I'm okay, I'm gonna
stand up so you can.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
If you need to stand up, just tell me you
need to stand up. Okay. I'm gonna let you read
this at the same time I read it. Okay. It
says you have the right to man silent, not make
any statement at all. Anything you say can and we'll
be used against you at your trial with the right
tournament this interviewed anytime? Do you understand each of these rights?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Mike, I don't understand arrested, Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, Well, we can answer any questions you have here
just a minute. Okay, And you said you do understand
your rights, okay, and with your rights in mind, you
want to speak with me now.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I don't remember what happened.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
A little decision on yours, Mike. I just need to
make sure that you do understand your rights. And then
if you want a logger, you know, you can let
me know and we can get you on and uh,
you know, obviously I think you've got some questions that
you were trying to ask me a minute ago.
Speaker 8 (03:27):
You but.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh my degress.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
That's I feel like I need somebody to help me
with what's going on, because I don't have what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, to be perfectly honest with you, neither one of
us have an idea of what's going on right now either,
because we haven't spoke with you yet, if that makes sense,
So we really don't know. We don't know what's going on.
I think I think our hope was that you would
help us figure out what's going on as much as
us help you figure.
Speaker 9 (03:55):
Out what's.
Speaker 10 (03:59):
Try.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I don't know happen.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Are you you sound really short of breath? Do you
have asthma or medical condition or anything? Are you just tired?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I'm stressed out?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
This really stressed you? Any questions or you ask me
any questions? You said you did understand your right? You
do want to speak with me?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Correct if I start getting overwhelmed. I want somebody that.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
You can stop interview at anytime. What was what was
your question? You were trying to ask me some questions
when we were coming up the stairway.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
M h, I don't know what's happening. I don't remember
what happened. I remember working this afternoon.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
What do you do for raytheon.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Configurations?
Speaker 7 (04:47):
So basically, I and make sure everything's right before it
gets released, sure drawings or documents or whatever, defense missiles
zero space?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
So are you still employed?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Is right?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
THEW is a private contractor this contractor do the government.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Tracks and stuff? Yeah? Mainly government contracts.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
What did What is it that you do for them?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
The configuration stuff? I run the meeting every month with
the Navy.
Speaker 7 (05:25):
Check all the drawings for my programs, make sure everything's right,
make sure that.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
The marketings are correct, so that we're protected.
Speaker 7 (05:39):
Government a lot, like you know, copyright and all that
that fun stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Is it like classified type of stuff?
Speaker 7 (05:47):
Or you know, I have my classif or I've been
cleared classified, but I don't work on a classified program currently.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Forgive, I don't know much about how did you get
in Were you in the military that? How you got
into that?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Or I got into it later after my degree?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Is that something anybody can do? Or like, do you
need some kind of what's the degree? In?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
My degree is engineering physics?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Okay, so that's why that's the physics part of this.
Speaker 7 (06:16):
Is not necessarily for what I do right now, but
I can use it for stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I understand electronics INSTE.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I don't understand any electronics. Were you in the military,
doll was in the Marine Corps? How long were you there?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Six years?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Six years? Do you get deployed? All I got.
Speaker 7 (06:39):
Injured on prep for the point, so I didn't go
hurt my ankle bad or sprand it real bad enough
of that it would have delayed me past shipping out,
so I.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Didn't deploy background between the Marine Corps and then the
raytheon stuff solid. I don't I don't know anything about you, Michael.
I'm trying a piece together the puzzle. I think the
same way you are. Tell me a little bit about you,
like what do you what do you like doing? What's
your family like? And who?
Speaker 11 (07:07):
Can you know?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
What I mean?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
My wife and I have been.
Speaker 7 (07:13):
Together since I was nineteen and she was eighteen. Two kids.
She's a nurse, her daughter's a swimmer, pretty good sons.
I functioning autistic but manages some days other days. That
(07:37):
are all doesn't help.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
That just started not too long ago, two years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
How much you think you got.
Speaker 11 (07:47):
Them?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'm not hardcore yet.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
But my old reason I know about that is my
father in law was a radio DJ for like thirty
four or forty years, a long time, and so, uh
he came to live. He needed a place to live
when he moved, so he'd lived with us for a
little bit, and he brought his these wooden crates. I
guess they're made specifically because they are the size of
the vinyl records that fit in. He probably had like
(08:14):
thirty of these wooden crates full of vinyl records that
we had to move in and then move out, and
you know how moving goes. But so he had a
huge vinyl collection. But I think he's the windled his
down now.
Speaker 7 (08:26):
I mean like music, like hanging out with my kids.
I've been been watching TVs on episode or two. What
show was Supernatural? Have you seen super Nagirl?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I don't know that I've even heard of it.
Speaker 7 (08:47):
So we've been We've been watching that video games every
once in a while. But I'm not that into it.
It's just something I occupy my time. Been getting back
into working out recently, trying to better myself, going to
gym or doing at home Jim.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
But we're working on buying something for the house, like a.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Home gym thing you go in the garage. What you said,
your son's half functioning autistic elder Son, thirteen thirteen. When
you say high function there's so many different kinds of
autism out there. What is what is his specific?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
He's anxiety. Uh, he had to delay and learn.
Speaker 7 (09:31):
He didn't speak until he was at four, and so usually,
like I said that, I don't all tends to help
put it.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, some days it doesn't something day, it doesn't.
Speaker 7 (09:49):
He's very easily addicted to screens. They did work screens
like video games, his phone man, stuff like that. He
does taekwondo. He seems to enjoy that. That gives him some.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Some structure focus.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
Yeah, it gives them something like, you know, specific movements,
and he's.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Able to track.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
How old was your daughter? How old is she? You
said she does some swimming stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, she is fourteen. What does she just swimming once
the strokes?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
M hm, I don't know. God said that. I'm just
trying to figure out about your family. Was really trying
to figure about you and she is.
Speaker 7 (10:32):
She swims whatever events and the meats are opening, and
you schedule whatever events that you want the kids to swim.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
It's not a structure.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I mean sometimes the coaches will say, I.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Won't even this event, like the different strokes and like
like Michael Phillips kind of stuff like the butterfly and
all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, there's only four strokes.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Uh, why do you think we're here today? I'm confused
on why we are here.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I think I can think of it the other day
of my wife. What's h we've been working lately, haven't
been I've been struggling a little bit. I've been trying
to work on it. I was going to counseling.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
I haven't been in a few weeks. I've been going
to counseling, and.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I'm struggling.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
Saturday night, she had one guns and sending them the
only way out sat on the time she said the
only way out was too basically stuff and I wouldn't
leave them.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I wouldn't be her long.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And I kept trying to get the gun away from her.
After about two hours, I got it away from her.
Speaker 7 (12:08):
But you know, basically, if I called in to try
to get her some help, they take her nursing a
license away.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 7 (12:17):
Her best friend came over and she ended up staying
the night. Maybe that was Sunday night, because she was
there all day Monday when we were working, and I've
been watching them, being afraid that she was gonna hurt herself.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I had the guns, and I don't.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Know who's her best friend.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Her name's Heather.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
She worked with her or high school friend.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Or their friends from her.
Speaker 10 (12:55):
This is my son's pay. Has your mother told her
you need details or you looked on social media or.
Speaker 8 (13:08):
Saudy show about your mother's sad.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What is that?
Speaker 9 (13:14):
Like I said.
Speaker 8 (13:17):
I have a been I saw one article that I
had nothing on it, and that was after I found
out Sin.
Speaker 9 (13:24):
It's gonna have a have you known on social media or.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
What you saw anything. This is gonna be a hard
conversation cause I know you all experience, but I just
wanna make sure that you do also know the facts
as well as you give me the facts and Quay
he did sho.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
He did shoot.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Them, all three of them, and he's been arrested. He's
in jail. But there's things that he said when I
spoke with him that made me wanna speak with you.
And from what I understand with your mother, I talked
to her a little bit last time, and it south
(14:00):
like she actually knew a little bit of the information.
I guess maybe you had been kind of keeping her
in the loop on what was going on with with them,
and I guess they've been having some maricle problems and
stuff like that. Yeah, okay, I'm just gonna help you
know what's going on with 'em. Y know.
Speaker 9 (14:17):
I found out on October.
Speaker 8 (14:19):
On October she finally told me that they were having
issues and that she'd been unhappy.
Speaker 9 (14:24):
For years, but it wasn't til last year that she
realized that she was at the point of no return,
like there was no saving it.
Speaker 8 (14:37):
M And the reason she hadn't left earlier in because
she wanted to make sure that he would be mentally
able to manage on his own when she was when
she wasn't there. That way, he could still be a
functioning dad to the kids, cause he was always a
(14:57):
great dad.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
When you say mentally able, what does that mean?
Speaker 9 (15:02):
So that no self harm?
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Okay, so he was.
Speaker 8 (15:05):
She was more worried about him harming himself than anything,
just the concern she.
Speaker 9 (15:11):
Felt that that would be something that he might do.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So she was worried about his mental state. He's always
been a good death. Is there any any history of violence.
Speaker 8 (15:21):
Or anything other than what I don't know what he
did while he was in the Marine Corps because that's
not something that he really ever talked about. I know
she may have known some of it, but like finalance.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
At home, Okay, anything that you know or saw that
there was a lot would scare you or concern you
or or this is just like completely.
Speaker 8 (15:43):
Just But when some of the things that she would
tell me how he would He cornered her in the
closet the other night and was going on for four
hours about how they could fix fix their.
Speaker 9 (15:52):
Marriage to make it work, and her in the closet. Yeah,
she didn't.
Speaker 7 (15:56):
He didn't.
Speaker 9 (15:56):
She didn't say she did.
Speaker 8 (15:58):
He touched her physically or anything, just wouldnt wouldn't let
her get away from him, to not have the conversation
and give.
Speaker 9 (16:02):
Her the space.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Okay, So it's been an active argument about he wants
to work the marriage out and she doesn't. Okay. When
was this that.
Speaker 9 (16:15):
Everything seemed fine? I when I got there late Tuesday
night and I her and I He slept on the
couch and I slept in the master bedroom. And in
the morning we were off, three of us even half
like friendly conversation. We're joking about the cat lawyer.
Speaker 12 (16:31):
Memes and June nine.
Speaker 9 (16:35):
It was a pretty pretty normal morning.
Speaker 8 (16:37):
He made us coffee and everything seemed stable. That leads
like there was nothing that was funny, that there's a
dry flag.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Was there a specific reason that you went and said the.
Speaker 8 (16:48):
Out over there or because he had wondered her and
wouldn't give her space, and I typically ser.
Speaker 9 (16:53):
I would usually the buffer okay, and it gave her
the space she needed. And when I got there, you
could tell she'd been crying all day.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Her eyes were Uh you hear about yourself?
Speaker 12 (17:02):
My uh friend is in her room.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
It's like a little apartment in here.
Speaker 12 (17:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Is this a hotel or a farmer or huh hotel?
Speaker 12 (17:09):
I guess it's both.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
They have long room, say so, yeah, it's not got
your own bedground, wash your drive home, kitchen and live.
Where's Josh Rons going to you? Minds wort? Yeah, it's
my name's Josh Rocks thrown missus coup there?
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Uh, we're both with the place department. Have you talked
with uh?
Speaker 9 (17:30):
Have they? Uh?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So she talked to us? Yeah, okay, we didn't. Uh
we didn't know anything about you until we stalk with
Heather lock Day. We should have had her just come
up here with you if y'all were together. But yeah,
so obviously Tomorrow has been been killed. I mean, here's
it's no easier with that. Like, how long have you
(17:55):
known Tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Three months?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
A few months?
Speaker 11 (17:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Have thesten a new relationship between y'all?
Speaker 12 (17:59):
Or yeah, I haven't actually met her in person? Okay,
it's an online type of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
How did y'all become a pointisent with ch other?
Speaker 12 (18:07):
So we're all part of I don't know if you're
familiar with kicks.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Hither told me a little bit about kick, but I didn't.
Speaker 11 (18:15):
I've never used it, Okay, So it's like be a
type of chat thing and there's a lot of like groups.
Speaker 12 (18:23):
So my friend added me to, like it's a first responders.
Speaker 13 (18:27):
Uh, healthcare professionals type group thing where like, uh, spider writers, nurses,
like all of us are kind of just like it,
trying to like say different things and just chat.
Speaker 12 (18:37):
And she was in the group that I was added to,
and that's one on me and her and met and
you know, we've started chatting and we were just became
kind of really good friends.
Speaker 11 (18:46):
And I was planning out coming here a few months ago,
so you know, I told her mind in the area,
let's meet up, and you know she was down for that,
and then that's why I met.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
That helps.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
That helps us a lot kind of shouting relationship in here.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Oh, y'all know each other and stuff like that. Yeah,
the specific reason why we wanted to come talk with
you is because I guess tomorrow, but y'all will call it.
Speaker 12 (19:09):
Tomorrow the TJ Mom TJ Compact.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
TJ messaged you, y'all message back forth life. Yeah, oh
so that's why we specifically wanted to talk to you
and see, Yeah, what if what do you know about
TJU primary tire relationship. Is there any insights that you
can tell us that maybe you're.
Speaker 11 (19:30):
So okay if you want me to tell you what
I know about her first and then yeah, okay, So I.
Speaker 12 (19:37):
Mean, and I don't even know it's online, Like we got
kind of personal in these groups just because we're all
going through a lot right now as first reformers.
Speaker 11 (19:45):
And healthcare professionals all the time use it as an
eventing tool, but we all kind of remain anonymous at
the same time.
Speaker 12 (19:53):
Uh so, like we don't put our remains on this
app or like any personal information.
Speaker 11 (19:59):
But because I been talking to her so long, you know,
I felt comfortable kind of breaking that seal.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I guess personally with her.
Speaker 11 (20:08):
And I've only done that with a couple of people
from the top, and so you know, we've like every
day almost We had like a girl group with nurses
that you know, she taught, talked about guys.
Speaker 12 (20:22):
You know, she talked about her.
Speaker 11 (20:22):
Marriage a few times, and then you know, she she's
you know, she mentioned that she was just really very
unhappy it's been.
Speaker 12 (20:33):
You know, cause I'm also gone through a divorce, so
we kind of like connected over that. And she said,
you know, I c she feel like she could leave yet,
but she needs to. She's miserable.
Speaker 11 (20:46):
I'm happy.
Speaker 14 (20:48):
Uh it's the kids.
Speaker 12 (20:49):
They've been together since they were eighteen, she said. But
she said he's very controlling. I think this was a
while ago.
Speaker 11 (20:59):
She didn't mention about him at some point getting physical,
I want to say, but she didn't say exactly what
or like, but that's kind.
Speaker 12 (21:08):
Of what she's insinuated.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You know.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
That's when I told her, like be needle to get
to the crowd.
Speaker 11 (21:13):
But you know, it just seemed like she just couldn't lead,
and that this was going on on for like a
long time. I mean, I I don't even know anything
else about her, Like I don't even know whose name,
but from what she.
Speaker 12 (21:26):
Talks about him, she was just.
Speaker 9 (21:30):
Not giving her a break. He was she felt like
she was being babysited because he was always hovering, always around.
Would she would go to the.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
Closet to do something he'd be right there. If she
went to the bedroom, he'd follow her to the bedroom.
I guess the most best way to equate.
Speaker 9 (21:47):
It is it's like having a toddler followed you around
to the bathroom. You can't even go key bout yourself.
I know that because I have two small children. Yeah,
they don't let me go to the bathroom alone.
Speaker 8 (21:58):
I want to shut the door, and I'm like, oh,
I don't know two seconds.
Speaker 15 (22:05):
Yeah, it's anything that gives you that, that gives you
that feeling, any gut that what happened.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Did you end up ever contacting anybody or you just
kind of let let the friend kind.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Of the friend.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
I've been talking to her. She was doing better throughout.
She was talking to me kind of opening up, and
that's I thought we were doing better. And she agreed
that she do couples counseling with me. And I said that,
you know, she's been waffling on it back and forth
(22:37):
for a month. She agreed she'd go, told me I
might not like all her answers, but that she would
go because I thought it was important. And so I
was gonna look into who I was.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And so you said you hit the guns where did
you have those at I had?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Oh, no them? What was up in my office?
Speaker 8 (23:04):
That I was?
Speaker 7 (23:05):
I didn't use it this week, but I've been using
for a few months. And then the extra bedroom upstairs,
and then was up there, and then the other one
was it hit a badass planning on put them in
my truck and trying to find him a friend to
take them to form the walls that will blow over,
(23:27):
and I felt.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Like she was better.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
How many guns do you all have too? Are they
both handguns and raffles guns? Do you know what they are?
Speaker 7 (23:37):
Wall there said twenty two nine millimeters springfield, Springfield.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
They used to have a Springfield now know where? I
traded it for a block.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I never liked blocks.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I didn't lock them until I started to love them,
So it was a it was a the transfer. But
they're very very simple to you and operate and take
down and clean and interchange parts and and all that stuff.
So I switched everything over her to more that was
(24:10):
she had any issues? Was she ever violent with him?
That she never? She never was physically abusive to Kim
that you know of her now, of that any kind
of physical abuse or or any kind of abuse at all.
That you know, it would be sending around the children
where the children ever involved.
Speaker 8 (24:27):
In from the kids, and they hadn't even told the
kids they were having issues.
Speaker 9 (24:32):
She was ready to they weren't supposed to sit down
to tell the kids, but then his dad ended up.
Speaker 8 (24:38):
In the er and they went to Colorado for a week,
and so they didn't get to talk to the kids.
Speaker 9 (24:42):
And then it was just one thing.
Speaker 8 (24:43):
After another, and they still hadn't had a chance to
tell the kids that they were having issues.
Speaker 9 (24:47):
But any kind of violence or abuse and none that is.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
There cool saying has uh has tomorrow? I ever had
any kind of uh, anxiety, depression, U, things of that nature,
m other.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
Than everything going on with Mike the past month or so.
Speaker 9 (25:07):
Yeah, it's been taken a.
Speaker 8 (25:08):
Toll on her mentally because she always he was always
around and she never got time for herself, like just
trying to be alone per se.
Speaker 9 (25:20):
And so I know that that was causing her to
be a little depressed obviously, but like a history of it, No,
I'll ask you.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
If mac had any history that you knew of of
suicidal thoughts and stuff like that. Did she have any
kind of history of suicide? Saw hafter this past two
day when he wouldn't leave her alone.
Speaker 9 (25:39):
She wanted out what happened there? She didn't do it.
Speaker 8 (25:45):
I came over and would just wouldn't let her. Made
talk to her and told her, was like, this is what.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
You wanna do.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I was like, ye, okay, now I know it's I
know it's horrid, but can you tell me all of
the details that you know about that specifically.
Speaker 9 (25:59):
Thing just that I keep corn at her. And when
she was texting me, it was the text that were like,
I've thought I think it's actual text. It was very
vague and ambiguous.
Speaker 8 (26:16):
But when I was a teenager, I had thought about
suicide too, and so just and she said there's only
one way out good and she says it's the only way.
Speaker 9 (26:37):
She's like, and she kept saying, She's like, I'm sorry,
it's the only way. I can't live like this.
Speaker 8 (26:41):
I want it to be over. It will be over soon,
only one step. He won't let me go. No, it's
And then I told her I was coming over. She said, no,
it's not safe to drive. And and then I told her
that I was coming and she kept saying, she said, Heather,
I'm okay, it will be okay, it's the only way.
Speaker 9 (26:58):
And then I told her that I would come.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I would tell her I was coming up when y'all
saw each other in person.
Speaker 15 (27:05):
When he got there, she came on the detail about
the advent at all about me that just like he was.
Speaker 9 (27:11):
Going on and on the same thing about wanted.
Speaker 8 (27:14):
Like trying to make it work, that she needs to
put the effort into making it work, and just things
that same conversations they've been happening is just a baruch
of it.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Did he tell you anything that happen? Did he speak
to you at all?
Speaker 9 (27:27):
Not about anything that happened? Yet she wasn't better in
the bed laying down, she was sitting up.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Anything about her? Did she say how she was going
to try to kill herself or anything? Or it was
just kind of baby text.
Speaker 9 (27:42):
Just that he took the gun away, So I would
assume that.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
She had a gun.
Speaker 11 (27:46):
Ye?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Is that in one of the deals that you s
sent me in a screenshop?
Speaker 9 (27:50):
It was it was verbal okay station when I was.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
There, So she told you that she had a.
Speaker 9 (27:54):
Gun, No, just that Mike took it.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Mike took it? Did to you? Did that mean she
actually like had to got in her hand and he
took it out of her hand.
Speaker 9 (28:01):
I don't know. I didn't ask specifically.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Okay, anything about m what not did with the gun?
Speaker 9 (28:11):
I I don't want.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Do you know how many guns they have in that house?
Yea too? Do you know what they are?
Speaker 9 (28:19):
She just told me.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I told you then or previously.
Speaker 9 (28:23):
Previously what they were?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Okay, raffles. You know where they normally kept those guns at?
Speaker 9 (28:29):
I thought in the closet, but I'm not.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
One hundred percent shirt I don't. But it's not something
I went looking for.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Want some in detail, I's look about.
Speaker 16 (28:39):
Okay, I want you to be I want you to
understand what I'm asking cause I know some questions that
I'm asking.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I want you to read you for atch it. No,
I'm not insinuating that she killed herself or anything like that.
I just had to ask certain questions of you because
you were there for that event, and I want to
make sure that we have the whole picture so that
way criminal cases work. You know, it's either a plea
(29:14):
deal or it goes to trial. And if this ends
up in a trial, then I want all of our
ducks to know about previously, and so don't don't think
that we're, you know, trying to insing you anything like that.
We just want to make sure that we have all
of our stuff lined out and we have it very
accurate so that there's no surprises and we can do
the absolute best job to get justice for her. Is
(29:37):
there any details about that incident that she said about
the gun, having the gun, going to use the gun,
pointing the gun, anything at all other than mock took
the gun.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
Oh, just think you took it.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So she's actually texting you while she's in the closet. No,
it says beg. Yeah, it's been begging for fifteen minutes
to let me go, and you responded back, he won't
let you go.
Speaker 9 (30:05):
He is saying that he won't. He's not willing to
give up on the marriage.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Okay, this is not talking specifically about her closet. Has
your wife ever had any suicidal stuff prior to this week?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
A couple of years ago, sh had thoughts of it,
m through it.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Hmmm, we worked through it, worked through it. Has she
ever had any kind of a medical treatment forward or
anything like that.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
She just started opening up about when she was in
maybe middle school or high school, she went to counseling.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Just recently told me that.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
You know, she was abused when she was a kid, Okay,
and then that's why she's been not wanting to go
to therapy with me because she didn't like.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Experience physical abuse or sexual abuse.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Sexual from what she's told me, do.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
You know who it was had done it to her?
Like a family or boyfriend?
Speaker 7 (30:59):
Think it was friends of her dad and maybe your
stepdad one including when she was living with her dad
in Michigan, there was the neighbor she had a babysitting
and woke up to.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Him over and there was other ones that she didn't
tell me about.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
But she told me, oh, so you just like not
just one thing or not just one person, kind of.
Speaker 7 (31:20):
Multiple And so she's she's struggled with that before.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
And so, like I said, we worked through and I've
been trying to have been I've never been.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
Great with sharing my emotions, and that's why i went
to counseling, trying to be a better husband and better dad.
I've been able to reconnect my kids a lot, like
we have a lot more conversations.
Speaker 12 (31:54):
And that was another Yeah, she did say, I don't
remember I your sister's lost. So long ago that I
don't remember specifics.
Speaker 11 (32:06):
But I do m I do remember her saying at
some point she got like she felt like a little
intimidated by.
Speaker 12 (32:12):
Him, like insimulated that he might physically do something. And
that's when I told her, like, you didn't get out
you know this?
Speaker 14 (32:19):
That has she ever had any events where when she's
had a mental breakdown or tried to calm herself or
anything of that incidence or.
Speaker 11 (32:33):
She did not s. I know Heather told me this
morning about you know, last week, but she never told.
Speaker 12 (32:39):
Me anything about wanting to harm herself or anyone else.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Was that before her coming silver those.
Speaker 12 (32:46):
Yes, that was before. Yeah, I haven't spoken to her
since she called me from her station. I just texted
her to.
Speaker 9 (32:54):
Room from her.
Speaker 12 (32:54):
But sh I mean there were times where she would
she I mean, she was crying, you know, cause.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
She what were the plans were trying to work it out?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Were they gonna split up? Were they were trying to
look out assets? Told me the name? What was there?
Speaker 12 (33:08):
She said, She didn't say it. She said she's been
trying for years. They were trying to work things out
for years.
Speaker 11 (33:15):
And she just can't do it anymore, Like exactly like that,
she pretty much said, and that you know, she's just
been trying to lead sort of thing.
Speaker 12 (33:26):
But he'd like kind of guilt tricks her.
Speaker 11 (33:29):
M but that like she hasn't been in love with him.
Speaker 12 (33:33):
For like at least a year.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, do you know a specific time name where she
has She told him like, hey, the marriage is over,
l or is He saw an impression they were trying
to work things out.
Speaker 11 (33:45):
She made it sound like she told him mult of
times that did you know she's not happy.
Speaker 12 (33:49):
That she was out?
Speaker 11 (33:53):
I guess last night when she tested me what she said,
I told him I'm done. I thought that meant catching
up since you know, she lost power for a little bit,
so I didn't really think anything of it. But father
told me that.
Speaker 12 (34:06):
She said no, she told him that she's done with
the marriage, cause.
Speaker 11 (34:09):
I guess she told Heeather something similar, and you know
she knows her better.
Speaker 12 (34:13):
So I was like, oh, I realize that.
Speaker 11 (34:17):
She had texted me so she wasn't terre she would
be able to come out tonight because of all the
work she had to do.
Speaker 12 (34:24):
And then you know, I said, no problem.
Speaker 11 (34:27):
You know I we ended up pushing the reservation out,
So she said, you know she would come.
Speaker 12 (34:33):
She's like, you know, I'm.
Speaker 11 (34:34):
Gonna come blah blah blah, I just got out of
the shower, or make me late, but I'll be there.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (34:40):
And then she said, I'll text you when I leave.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
I think I've heard of it. I think I found
on my website. I think I kind of a quiz
for it. And then with that, she and I actually
took it a.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Week or two ago.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Okay, so recently, what was uh her love language? There's
trying to remember the five of them. There's affirmation was
words of affirmation.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Gifting wasn't high, but it was higher than.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Mine receiving gifts. Gift the one where you do things
for the.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
House, act certain information her last, and.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Then of course the intimate side of it, and you
know that's most men.
Speaker 7 (35:28):
But we never never really had a problem with that.
Seventeen years ago, never really had a problem there.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Me and my wife had a friend of ours give
us that book and we read it and it was
it kind of puts things in perspective, like because you're
raised a certain way by your parents and she's raised
a certain way by her parents, and you know, I
mean you kind of got to understand this is how
this person thinks or perceives or whatever. So it really
(35:58):
helped us because my wife's grandmother always bought her gifts.
Like they never they never said I love you. They
never like they didn't come up and give you a hug.
You know, they just like their way of showing love
was you know, hey, here's a birthday prisoner, here's a gift,
or here's this, and so you know, it kind of
opened my eyes a little bit on Okay, let me
see thinks of her perspective instead.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Of mind looking into some books and workbooks and stuff
with me.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
Had a friend who from high school when she got
divorced not long ago, don't ask her what would you
wish you to differently? And she said that she wished
she would have done that. And she's telling some of
her church groups were not overly religious. But she was
telling me, like, you know, the church has a lot
of resources, and can.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
You just walk me through what you do remember from
today and that way we can kind of try to
piece together while we're here today.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
We were working, we're talking to them.
Speaker 7 (36:54):
Think it took a shower, I can down the life
and I were talking about I wanted to buying a
new mattress.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
One we have is too soft, dips really bat in
the middle.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Well, I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Is it normal for you not to remember your day? No,
you peel.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Happened?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It happened the other night.
Speaker 7 (37:26):
When her best friend came over. They had passed out
in the bed, and I didn't want to intrudes or anything,
so I set up the couch and my WIPEX came
out to just check on me, and she found me
on the floor.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Or happened I passed out, I don't know. I was
just tired. I remember standing there.
Speaker 7 (37:48):
Thinking we could get on the couch, and then I
woke up on my back the floor.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
You said to mind and your your head. You had
them scratches on your back. You said you had how
many dogs?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Sorry?
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Three dogs? What kind of dogs were they? Two pugs
in a bulldog, two pugs in a bulldog. They all
stay inside the pain. There's a lot of dogs in
one house. Obviously, I can't tell you all the details
(38:23):
about the case, I understand, but if you do have
specific questions, if I can't answer them, I'll just tell
you I can't answer them, but I'll i'll answer everything
that I can if there's anything that.
Speaker 9 (38:33):
I can answer from you, I don't know if I'm
ready yet.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And that's that's perfectly fine. And and questions like that
that you're probably talking about I probably wouldn't answer anyways,
I'm not at this point.
Speaker 9 (38:47):
Did you have three dogs in a cat.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
So the house was set on fire?
Speaker 9 (38:53):
I did read that.
Speaker 12 (38:54):
I didn't.
Speaker 9 (38:54):
It didn't say anything about the extent of it.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
The house. The the one room in the house bur
pretty good, and there was a lot of smoke, and
I believe that the smoke killed all the animals. I
can't tell you that the three dogs and the cat
were ones though.
Speaker 11 (39:14):
That was it.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I believe that two popes.
Speaker 9 (39:17):
Two pos, the English and the cat.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Even Why do you think you're having trouble focused in
or why do you think you can't remember stuff on.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
The day, Well remember this stuff?
Speaker 9 (39:33):
And it's not.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I do all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I do sometimes.
Speaker 7 (39:37):
It's had a really bad concussion in high school, and
some of my short term to want term memory is
always there.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
That's one of the areas that the pisted my wife.
Speaker 9 (39:46):
That was it.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
We talk and I wouldn't necessarily remember it an hour later.
And I want to reiterate every go over the conversation.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I just want you to. I just want you to
kind of think real hard and try to go chronological
throughout your day to day from tom you woke up,
and what happened, and what you did, what you ate,
and what you did for breakfast, and what you did
for lunch and what you did for work, and just
kind of see maybe you can piece together you know
what happened today and and why we can't remember it.
(40:22):
Do you remember what you ate for breakfast?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Do you eat anything for lunch? Or was that your
launch the toast? Do you anythink for dinner tonight? Does
he have any medical conditions or anything that you know about,
Not that I know of anything that was physical mental.
Speaker 9 (40:45):
You may have pts from the military.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
What would make you I don't.
Speaker 12 (40:56):
A long time.
Speaker 9 (40:57):
I know he's lost your friends. Oh there, and I
think he wasn't against.
Speaker 8 (41:04):
It's been a long, long, long time since I've thought.
Speaker 9 (41:06):
About his military career.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Okay, Does he have any kind of mental problems? Like
is he a see a very Is he smart intellectual?
Speaker 9 (41:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
He's very smart, very smart. Has he ever had any
problems remembering things? Any problems not recalling events or not
that I'm aware of. No mental lapses, no, no hospital state.
Then she was seventeen, and how were you know thirty.
Speaker 9 (41:36):
Four status that I'll be thirty five this year.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Well, I wouldn't guess it.
Speaker 15 (41:41):
Is he ever you'll ever had a conversation And five
seconds says you're having the same conversation because he didn't remember.
Speaker 9 (41:47):
He just had it, not with me particularly.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Okay, what do you when you say that?
Speaker 9 (41:53):
Just how he would go on and on.
Speaker 8 (41:55):
Like she would take some tell him and then he
just would pretty much ignore it and just keep going
when it was talking with her, when with other regular
conversations that we've all been around, these never had any
issues remembering.
Speaker 9 (42:10):
Sometimes I'll remember stuff and like, oh I couldn't even remember.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Okay to somebody, I can't remember, and I don't I
don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Do you remember the police coming to your house?
Speaker 9 (42:26):
This? Even?
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I remember being on the sidewalk on my face.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Okay, Michael Kemmer, Yeah, look at me, brother, I'm gonna
be honest with you. Can you be honest with me?
You called non one one tonight? Do you know why
you would tell them that you wanted to kill yourself.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
In the last ten years, has been three times that
I wanted to kill myself. If I'd said that tonight, if.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You want me to be honest with you, in the
last ten years, you wanted to kill yourself three different times.
There's three moments, three moments I never did. What are
those three moments?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
One of them I got before I went back to school.
That's right over, my boss.
Speaker 7 (43:38):
Everything had been going really good and I failed my wife,
I failed the kids, and we were in a really
bad place as far as financials go, and I wasn't
(43:59):
doing well coping with.
Speaker 11 (44:02):
With it.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
It was.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
It was a hit to me, and.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
There had been.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Remembers that wellife had sucked like a coworker.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
She told me wasn't true, but it was just another
pace something else that's in stress.
Speaker 11 (44:35):
That's how they told you about the kind of online
things she had going on with Dan, who was you know.
Speaker 12 (44:43):
I also was friendly from the app as well as
kind of roll in the same group. So I don't
recall any.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Other ancorities, any specific events about violence, him being physically abusive,
her uncle.
Speaker 15 (44:57):
Her her being physically abusive unco that's uh.
Speaker 12 (45:03):
I do remember her saying once that she was crying
all day because they were fighting. I guess, Oh, I
do remember something. Actually, the husband left.
Speaker 11 (45:14):
The iPad in her room one night and heard her
on the phone with Dan, like I guess for the
you know, record of the whole conversation.
Speaker 12 (45:23):
Without her knowing. And then she found out afterwards when
he did get speak over her like a a minute
or two, and then he had her shut it off.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
All those goose maybe.
Speaker 12 (45:39):
A month, maybe more than a month, like two months
ago some one of that. And then she had that
thing going on Dan, you know, which was like really
intense even though they never have met, like it seemed
like it was. They were really really close.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Sa chats. The intense in the aspect of like she
told me she was like in.
Speaker 12 (46:04):
Love with him, you know, she wanted to be with
him like one day. But then at the same time
she knew it was not realistic. They were just really
really close, Like she just made it sound like they
were in the tech thing.
Speaker 14 (46:19):
Did Dan know all of her stuff too, like with
with her husband and Pop Williams and stuff like that,
or was or did she keep.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Such stuff away from him?
Speaker 12 (46:27):
Yeah, I think she definitely such thing. So he sent
me it cause I had to break the news of
him this morning.
Speaker 11 (46:34):
He lives in Costa Rica and I guess he's like
his mountain house with the wifi's knockers.
Speaker 12 (46:40):
So he came foh amaphone. So we've been you know, Preston.
He sent me screenshots of the last n they s
you know, them.
Speaker 11 (46:48):
Talking, which was like a minute of feeling me in
her texting Wow, and it sounded like she was talking about.
Speaker 12 (46:58):
Him, the husband. It's oo fun. Then she said I
told Mike, which I'm assuming that's her husband. I'm done.
I'm saying, Gina tonight me.
Speaker 11 (47:11):
She asked that she could stay over. He goes, oh
what happened? She said, I can't do this anymore. My
mental health can't handle him coming. And then I got
cut off and says he and I don't know.
Speaker 12 (47:24):
And then did he do something?
Speaker 11 (47:26):
Uh? He did?
Speaker 12 (47:29):
I mean, that's all him, tryna miss.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
She wanted him to fix himself first, work on himself first.
Speaker 9 (47:35):
What their communication was lacking.
Speaker 8 (47:38):
He didn't express his emotions well, so he kind of
just wasn't letting her back in and.
Speaker 9 (47:46):
He needed to focus on that.
Speaker 15 (47:50):
Okay, as far as you know, was there anything do
you know I'm not trying to talk to ill about
your your your friend. I just wanna I gotta ask you.
Is there any she cheating on him? Anything seeing anybody else?
Speaker 9 (48:08):
She he knew it was a online a pair of
coltay cause he lives in Costa Rica. She knew it
was nothing that would ever physically happen.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Kay, But he knew that she was having this online
affair of in October.
Speaker 9 (48:24):
He knew. He he found out before I did.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
So he found out the October of twenty twenty pasted October.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
When did it get in? When was it ended?
Speaker 9 (48:35):
No? She told him that sh it, She wasn't ending it.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Any cost and she and he knew.
Speaker 9 (48:41):
And he, oh, yeah, he knew.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
How did he found out?
Speaker 9 (48:44):
She said it was name in her sleep?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
She said okay, and then I guess he just confronted
her about it or yeah.
Speaker 9 (48:50):
He asked her who that was and she wasn't gonna
lie to him.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
So she told him, I'm guessing you have no idea
how to get in contact with this old boy.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
In Costa Rica.
Speaker 9 (48:59):
What do you need to know?
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well?
Speaker 4 (49:01):
Hell, yeah, what's name?
Speaker 9 (49:05):
His name's Dan, the last name I don't have. Do
you know how the communicated they primarily did on kick
and Snapchat.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
Dan, Yeah, is a phone numbered or reach him a
phone number?
Speaker 9 (49:18):
I can reach him on Snapchat and that's about it.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Do you have him on your statso I do. Well,
you go to his profile and and a screenshot his
uh user Nate.
Speaker 9 (49:28):
He was he was worried about her. And I'm sure
if he already.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
Knows, you want to stupen it.
Speaker 9 (49:33):
Oh just he just fell and only says he's so worried. Okay,
Uh she I know.
Speaker 12 (49:43):
She said that they used to have like an open
merit where she did say a.
Speaker 11 (49:49):
Story once where I guess she was over another man's
house and the wife the guy walked in on that
and then at you know, their kids swam together. So
when she saw Mara's husband at the swimming.
Speaker 12 (50:09):
School, she went up to him and like told him
what she saw, and I guess he said, yeah, I
know I have the pictures. You want to see them
or like something like that, like he already knew about it.
So sh She made it sound like they.
Speaker 11 (50:25):
Had like kind of an open marriage type thing at
some point. I'm not really sure that was still the
case now, but.
Speaker 12 (50:32):
For how long ago that was but that was the story.
Speaker 9 (50:34):
She did mention once about him.
Speaker 12 (50:39):
Other than that that he was controlling, rolling. So that's
when she kind of opened up about her marriage a
little bit, that.
Speaker 11 (50:47):
You know, he was really controlling and this and that,
and you know, always wants to be with her, makes
her feel guilty when she wants to do things for herself,
that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Any reason to believe this did's line about who he
is or.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Anything?
Speaker 1 (51:08):
S cat sketchy a house.
Speaker 12 (51:11):
No, h, I don't think so.
Speaker 11 (51:14):
His name is actually jose Whose Yeah. What he had
told me he didn't share with more.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
I don't know why.
Speaker 12 (51:21):
I guess he was embarrassed because he wanted to sound
like more white, he said, so he changed, he seemed
to Dan.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
When did he play this.
Speaker 12 (51:35):
Mm like a month of a baby?
Speaker 9 (51:37):
No?
Speaker 12 (51:37):
I didn't cause I didn't feel like it was my face.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Okay, so his name is really whose?
Speaker 8 (51:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (51:44):
What what was like, Dan?
Speaker 1 (51:45):
What about The Good Dead was there? I know this
may seem silly, but you were just trying to get him,
Oh yeah, whatever movie was?
Speaker 5 (52:00):
Was there a sexual relationship?
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Puting to them, like were they own sexting and sending pictures.
Speaker 5 (52:05):
And and you know, sex talk and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah, okay, did and you may not know the answer
this question because you and Marl had met from a
person or whatever. But did Maura's husband know that side
of him?
Speaker 11 (52:20):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (52:21):
From what I'm aware that there was.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
A sexual sidle yeh.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
Did she just say you that her husband knew like
that or I she said that he knew everything?
Speaker 5 (52:31):
Said what do you call Hi Jose or Dan Jose?
Speaker 1 (52:38):
I was gonna get confusing if she showed up to
dinn last night?
Speaker 5 (52:40):
You said Jose and she said Dan.
Speaker 12 (52:42):
Yeah, I know I mentioned that. I said, you know,
if I slipped by accident.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
Sorry, but.
Speaker 12 (52:49):
I I mean I felt kind of weird to be honest,
that she didn't know who's her own name?
Speaker 15 (52:52):
But yeah, especially if it's this, I mean this involved
in yeah, involved in the Vincy kind of thing.
Speaker 11 (53:00):
He was really weird even about telling me. But I'm
a type of person like if I'm gonna give you
my snaps out any or something like, I need to
know your real name. And I knew his girl name
wasn't bad like.
Speaker 12 (53:09):
He's in closed. He was born was prist Luca. I
insist said, I said, I you know, you have to
tell me you real name. And then he finally you.
Speaker 11 (53:16):
Know, tolt me like he took him a little bit
and he was very like uncomfortable about her.
Speaker 4 (53:22):
Is is Dan just a friends to you even had her?
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Or is he?
Speaker 9 (53:27):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (53:28):
Is he a lot more flirty and stuff like that
with y'all too?
Speaker 12 (53:30):
I mean he's flirty, but me and him are friends.
Speaker 5 (53:34):
You think they were.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Crossed a lot of type friends.
Speaker 12 (53:37):
Uh No, I mean he tried to you know, a
while ago, but I was with someone and you know,
I can start of turn him down.
Speaker 5 (53:46):
But a while ago, like while he was involved with
this was before they.
Speaker 12 (53:52):
Were kind of like like you know, seriously talking. I
didn't even know about her. This was when I was
in here, and when I was here in Dallas, I
met someone that I you know, messaged me, you know,
kind of wording and this is not my fendly told them,
and uh that's where I'm trying to figure out what
(54:17):
ching about. And then he said I'd rather have him
of a friend or nothing, not celebrating.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
The reason I'm l asking is the is does jose
only have Moura in this online relationship thing?
Speaker 5 (54:33):
Or ispose you got multiple women the same way?
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Things that make sense?
Speaker 12 (54:39):
Yeah, no, I'm kind of saying this, Okay.
Speaker 11 (54:44):
Yeah, before he did have a lot of different type
of uh, online relationships.
Speaker 12 (54:53):
I guess it was a COVID. You know, he's having
difficulty and dating or whatever. So he times wanted me
to stick put the online in.
Speaker 11 (55:00):
And he did have a bunch of like women he
was talking to decided that they wanted to be serious,
I guess, and that's when I don't try everyone else off.
Speaker 5 (55:10):
So you feel that he was solely focused on more.
Speaker 11 (55:14):
Yeah, because even in the groups that we were in,
and everyone knew that they were proud of an items
like they you.
Speaker 12 (55:20):
Know, he's just very open about it in the group
with other people.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
If you'll sing those those I know request, I'll make
sure that no go into and always does Huh she.
Speaker 7 (55:34):
Works remote, she has permanent or did she do that today?
Every day one of her off days?
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Her ads on there.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
Okay, so she worked today? Then yes, today's Friday. Do
y'all work in the same room or separate rooms?
Speaker 2 (55:52):
This week? We worked in the same room.
Speaker 7 (55:54):
Just trying to say electricity and and everything was what's
been going on, the weather and stuff.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
That's so we were.
Speaker 7 (56:03):
Trying to condense where we were so we didn't have
to heed as much and use as much electricity. So
I sat in the chair and she was on the bed,
and we were being pretty playful and bantering.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
I remember that. I remember sending you some playful texts. Yeah,
as we've always done that.
Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yeah, just kind of keeping things fun.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
Well, she's, you know, in a meeting. I can't necessarily
see things and stuff.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
So does she see patients, like is she like facetiming
patience or that they.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Take contract to a pharmaceutical company?
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Okay, well, I think we're getting a little bit further
because you remember sending text messages to your wife today,
so that's earlier. About what time you think that was?
Speaker 2 (56:56):
Really afternoon? Warning?
Speaker 1 (57:00):
One more tonsor can.
Speaker 3 (57:01):
I talk to earlawyer because I'm in so far over
my head I don't know what's happening.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Okay, that's that's perfectly You're about to do so so
we can get you an attorney to and then speak
with you after you have an attorney.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
Getting confused all your questions, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
You're perfectly fine. You're going to you are going to
be under arrest. Okay, you're going to be taking a
tense instead of present tense.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
No no, no, no, no, m m.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
There's any age you do Michael, okay yeah yeah yeah,
please Mack, don't fall down on me. If you're like,
can sit down chair.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
H mm hmm.
Speaker 9 (58:16):
It's not true.
Speaker 2 (58:19):
This is not true.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Please what are you talking to me for yourself?
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Please?
Speaker 1 (58:30):
So it's not true your daughter is deceased.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
No, I would never.
Speaker 8 (58:39):
Now you've listened.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
Now go to your thing
Welcome to your top true crime hob for the variety
in episodes you're looking for enjoy. You're gonna be under
risk for capital murder, capital.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Murder m h.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
M hm yeah, this song is not true.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hand real quick and then we'll do that and g
throws handcuffsft.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Okay something, I'll just sit here away.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Can you need something drinking thing?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Please?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Water?
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Was that quick enough for your brother?
Speaker 5 (00:32):
You go about mac remarker.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Usually Mike usually Mike.
Speaker 6 (00:36):
Okay, can you stand up for me? I'm gonna get
the HANDCUFFSFTU okay, m can you remember I take these
hankills soft of Yeah. I just needed to sit back
down with your friend card.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
No cross.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
H They're not completely awful. I'll let you sit back
down and turn around and then I'll take them out
the front sole fector h. This is what I was.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Talking about, was gonna take a swab of your hands.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Okay, you okay with her doing that?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You get three that's happening. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
We're gonna let her do this and get out here,
and then I'm all yours. Okay. Anything on the back side,
no cuts or I'm not kid he monopolo.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You should for it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You gotta I can't tell you about the scratch over here.
You gotta cat or something at the house.
Speaker 7 (01:33):
Three dogs and puppy.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Can I stand for a minute.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, sir, absolutely, I was car You were sitting there
for a long time. Give me just a second. Here's
a couple of water bot.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I'm gonna go ahead, and this my stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I haven't met you before. My name's Josh Armstrong. Okay,
I don't know you shake hands and you know coronavirus
is time.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't at least stay at home with both work
for a month.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay. What do you do for liv work for rafield?
Huh rafel rathe on? Is that the oil or gas defense? Okay, yeah,
h mm hmm, Mike, I told you my name Josh Armstrong.
(02:26):
This is a coyle peck. Okay, we're both. What's the time?
Is your legs? Okay? They get on a sleep?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Not right one, still trying, but I'm okay, I'm gonna
stand up so you can.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
If you need to stand up, just tell me you
need to stand up. Okay. I'm gonna let you read
this at the same time I read it. Okay. It
says you have the right to man silent, not make
any statement at all. Anything you say can and we'll
be used against you at your trial with the right
tournament this interviewed anytime? Do you understand each of these rights?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Mike, I don't understand arrested, Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, Well, we can answer any questions you have here
just a minute. Okay, And you said you do understand
your rights, okay, and with your rights in mind, you
want to speak with me now.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I don't remember what happened.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
A little decision on yours, Mike. I just need to
make sure that you do understand your rights. And then
if you want a logger, you know, you can let
me know and we can get you on and uh,
you know, obviously I think you've got some questions that
you were trying to ask me a minute ago.
Speaker 8 (03:27):
You but.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Oh my degress.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
That's I feel like I need somebody to help me
with what's going on, because I don't have what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, to be perfectly honest with you, neither one of
us have an idea of what's going on right now either,
because we haven't spoke with you yet, if that makes sense,
So we really don't know. We don't know what's going on.
I think I think our hope was that you would
help us figure out what's going on as much as
us help you figure.
Speaker 9 (03:55):
Out what's.
Speaker 10 (03:59):
Try.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I don't know happen.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Are you you sound really short of breath? Do you
have asthma or medical condition or anything? Are you just tired?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I'm stressed out?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
This really stressed you? Any questions or you ask me
any questions? You said you did understand your right? You
do want to speak with me?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Correct if I start getting overwhelmed. I want somebody that.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
You can stop interview at anytime. What was what was
your question? You were trying to ask me some questions
when we were coming up the stairway.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
M h, I don't know what's happening. I don't remember
what happened. I remember working this afternoon.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
What do you do for raytheon.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Configurations?
Speaker 7 (04:47):
So basically, I and make sure everything's right before it
gets released, sure drawings or documents or whatever, defense missiles
zero space?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
So are you still employed?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Is right?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
THEW is a private contractor this contractor do the government.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Tracks and stuff? Yeah? Mainly government contracts.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
What did What is it that you do for them?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
The configuration stuff? I run the meeting every month with
the Navy.
Speaker 7 (05:25):
Check all the drawings for my programs, make sure everything's right,
make sure that.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
The marketings are correct, so that we're protected.
Speaker 7 (05:39):
Government a lot, like you know, copyright and all that
that fun stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Is it like classified type of stuff?
Speaker 7 (05:47):
Or you know, I have my classif or I've been
cleared classified, but I don't work on a classified program currently.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Forgive, I don't know much about how did you get
in Were you in the military that? How you got
into that?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Or I got into it later after my degree?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Is that something anybody can do? Or like, do you
need some kind of what's the degree? In?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
My degree is engineering physics?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Okay, so that's why that's the physics part of this.
Speaker 7 (06:16):
Is not necessarily for what I do right now, but
I can use it for stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I understand electronics INSTE.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I don't understand any electronics. Were you in the military,
doll was in the Marine Corps? How long were you there?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Six years?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Six years? Do you get deployed? All I got.
Speaker 7 (06:39):
Injured on prep for the point, so I didn't go
hurt my ankle bad or sprand it real bad enough
of that it would have delayed me past shipping out,
so I.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Didn't deploy background between the Marine Corps and then the
raytheon stuff solid. I don't I don't know anything about you, Michael.
I'm trying a piece together the puzzle. I think the
same way you are. Tell me a little bit about you,
like what do you what do you like doing? What's
your family like? And who?
Speaker 11 (07:07):
Can you know?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
What I mean?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
My wife and I have been.
Speaker 7 (07:13):
Together since I was nineteen and she was eighteen. Two kids.
She's a nurse, her daughter's a swimmer, pretty good sons.
I functioning autistic but manages some days other days. That
(07:37):
are all doesn't help.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
That just started not too long ago, two years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
How much you think you got.
Speaker 11 (07:47):
Them?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'm not hardcore yet.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
But my old reason I know about that is my
father in law was a radio DJ for like thirty
four or forty years, a long time, and so, uh
he came to live. He needed a place to live
when he moved, so he'd lived with us for a
little bit, and he brought his these wooden crates. I
guess they're made specifically because they are the size of
the vinyl records that fit in. He probably had like
(08:14):
thirty of these wooden crates full of vinyl records that
we had to move in and then move out, and
you know how moving goes. But so he had a
huge vinyl collection. But I think he's the windled his
down now.
Speaker 7 (08:26):
I mean like music, like hanging out with my kids.
I've been been watching TVs on episode or two. What
show was Supernatural? Have you seen super Nagirl?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I don't know that I've even heard of it.
Speaker 7 (08:47):
So we've been We've been watching that video games every
once in a while. But I'm not that into it.
It's just something I occupy my time. Been getting back
into working out recently, trying to better myself, going to
gym or doing at home Jim.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
But we're working on buying something for the house, like a.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Home gym thing you go in the garage. What you said,
your son's half functioning autistic elder Son, thirteen thirteen. When
you say high function there's so many different kinds of
autism out there. What is what is his specific?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
He's anxiety. Uh, he had to delay and learn.
Speaker 7 (09:31):
He didn't speak until he was at four, and so usually,
like I said that, I don't all tends to help
put it.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, some days it doesn't something day, it doesn't.
Speaker 7 (09:49):
He's very easily addicted to screens. They did work screens
like video games, his phone man, stuff like that. He
does taekwondo. He seems to enjoy that. That gives him some.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Some structure focus.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
Yeah, it gives them something like, you know, specific movements,
and he's.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Able to track.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
How old was your daughter? How old is she? You
said she does some swimming stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, she is fourteen. What does she just swimming once
the strokes?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
M hm, I don't know. God said that. I'm just
trying to figure out about your family. Was really trying
to figure about you and she is.
Speaker 7 (10:32):
She swims whatever events and the meats are opening, and
you schedule whatever events that you want the kids to swim.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
It's not a structure.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I mean sometimes the coaches will say, I.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Won't even this event, like the different strokes and like
like Michael Phillips kind of stuff like the butterfly and
all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, there's only four strokes.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Uh, why do you think we're here today? I'm confused
on why we are here.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I think I can think of it the other day
of my wife. What's h we've been working lately, haven't
been I've been struggling a little bit. I've been trying
to work on it. I was going to counseling.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
I haven't been in a few weeks. I've been going
to counseling, and.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I'm struggling.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
Saturday night, she had one guns and sending them the
only way out sat on the time she said the
only way out was too basically stuff and I wouldn't
leave them.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I wouldn't be her long.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And I kept trying to get the gun away from her.
After about two hours, I got it away from her.
Speaker 7 (12:08):
But you know, basically, if I called in to try
to get her some help, they take her nursing a
license away.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I didn't know what to do.
Speaker 7 (12:17):
Her best friend came over and she ended up staying
the night. Maybe that was Sunday night, because she was
there all day Monday when we were working, and I've
been watching them, being afraid that she was gonna hurt herself.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I had the guns, and I don't.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Know who's her best friend.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Her name's Heather.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
She worked with her or high school friend.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Or their friends from her.
Speaker 10 (12:55):
This is my son's pay. Has your mother told her
you need details or you looked on social media or.
Speaker 8 (13:08):
Saudy show about your mother's sad.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What is that?
Speaker 9 (13:14):
Like I said.
Speaker 8 (13:17):
I have a been I saw one article that I
had nothing on it, and that was after I found
out Sin.
Speaker 9 (13:24):
It's gonna have a have you known on social media or.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
What you saw anything. This is gonna be a hard
conversation cause I know you all experience, but I just
wanna make sure that you do also know the facts
as well as you give me the facts and Quay
he did sho.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
He did shoot.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Them, all three of them, and he's been arrested. He's
in jail. But there's things that he said when I
spoke with him that made me wanna speak with you.
And from what I understand with your mother, I talked
to her a little bit last time, and it south
(14:00):
like she actually knew a little bit of the information.
I guess maybe you had been kind of keeping her
in the loop on what was going on with with them,
and I guess they've been having some maricle problems and
stuff like that. Yeah, okay, I'm just gonna help you
know what's going on with 'em. Y know.
Speaker 9 (14:17):
I found out on October.
Speaker 8 (14:19):
On October she finally told me that they were having
issues and that she'd been unhappy.
Speaker 9 (14:24):
For years, but it wasn't til last year that she
realized that she was at the point of no return,
like there was no saving it.
Speaker 8 (14:37):
M And the reason she hadn't left earlier in because
she wanted to make sure that he would be mentally
able to manage on his own when she was when
she wasn't there. That way, he could still be a
functioning dad to the kids, cause he was always a
(14:57):
great dad.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
When you say mentally able, what does that mean?
Speaker 9 (15:02):
So that no self harm?
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Okay, so he was.
Speaker 8 (15:05):
She was more worried about him harming himself than anything,
just the concern she.
Speaker 9 (15:11):
Felt that that would be something that he might do.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
So she was worried about his mental state. He's always
been a good death. Is there any any history of violence.
Speaker 8 (15:21):
Or anything other than what I don't know what he
did while he was in the Marine Corps because that's
not something that he really ever talked about. I know
she may have known some of it, but like finalance.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
At home, Okay, anything that you know or saw that
there was a lot would scare you or concern you
or or this is just like completely.
Speaker 8 (15:43):
Just But when some of the things that she would
tell me how he would He cornered her in the
closet the other night and was going on for four
hours about how they could fix fix their.
Speaker 9 (15:52):
Marriage to make it work, and her in the closet. Yeah,
she didn't.
Speaker 7 (15:56):
He didn't.
Speaker 9 (15:56):
She didn't say she did.
Speaker 8 (15:58):
He touched her physically or anything, just wouldnt wouldn't let
her get away from him, to not have the conversation
and give.
Speaker 9 (16:02):
Her the space.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Okay, So it's been an active argument about he wants
to work the marriage out and she doesn't. Okay. When
was this that.
Speaker 9 (16:15):
Everything seemed fine? I when I got there late Tuesday
night and I her and I He slept on the
couch and I slept in the master bedroom. And in
the morning we were off, three of us even half
like friendly conversation. We're joking about the cat lawyer.
Speaker 12 (16:31):
Memes and June nine.
Speaker 9 (16:35):
It was a pretty pretty normal morning.
Speaker 8 (16:37):
He made us coffee and everything seemed stable. That leads
like there was nothing that was funny, that there's a
dry flag.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Was there a specific reason that you went and said the.
Speaker 8 (16:48):
Out over there or because he had wondered her and
wouldn't give her space, and I typically ser.
Speaker 9 (16:53):
I would usually the buffer okay, and it gave her
the space she needed. And when I got there, you
could tell she'd been crying all day.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Her eyes were Uh you hear about yourself?
Speaker 12 (17:02):
My uh friend is in her room.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
It's like a little apartment in here.
Speaker 12 (17:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Is this a hotel or a farmer or huh hotel?
Speaker 12 (17:09):
I guess it's both.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
They have long room, say so, yeah, it's not got
your own bedground, wash your drive home, kitchen and live.
Where's Josh Rons going to you? Minds wort? Yeah, it's
my name's Josh Rocks thrown missus coup there?
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Uh, we're both with the place department. Have you talked
with uh?
Speaker 9 (17:30):
Have they? Uh?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So she talked to us? Yeah, okay, we didn't. Uh
we didn't know anything about you until we stalk with
Heather lock Day. We should have had her just come
up here with you if y'all were together. But yeah,
so obviously Tomorrow has been been killed. I mean, here's
it's no easier with that. Like, how long have you
(17:55):
known Tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Three months?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
A few months?
Speaker 11 (17:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Have thesten a new relationship between y'all?
Speaker 12 (17:59):
Or yeah, I haven't actually met her in person? Okay,
it's an online type of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
How did y'all become a pointisent with ch other?
Speaker 12 (18:07):
So we're all part of I don't know if you're
familiar with kicks.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Hither told me a little bit about kick, but I didn't.
Speaker 11 (18:15):
I've never used it, Okay, So it's like be a
type of chat thing and there's a lot of like groups.
Speaker 12 (18:23):
So my friend added me to, like it's a first responders.
Speaker 13 (18:27):
Uh, healthcare professionals type group thing where like, uh, spider writers, nurses,
like all of us are kind of just like it,
trying to like say different things and just chat.
Speaker 12 (18:37):
And she was in the group that I was added to,
and that's one on me and her and met and
you know, we've started chatting and we were just became
kind of really good friends.
Speaker 11 (18:46):
And I was planning out coming here a few months ago,
so you know, I told her mind in the area,
let's meet up, and you know she was down for that,
and then that's why I met.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
That helps.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
That helps us a lot kind of shouting relationship in here.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Oh, y'all know each other and stuff like that. Yeah,
the specific reason why we wanted to come talk with
you is because I guess tomorrow, but y'all will call it.
Speaker 12 (19:09):
Tomorrow the TJ Mom TJ Compact.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
TJ messaged you, y'all message back forth life. Yeah, oh
so that's why we specifically wanted to talk to you
and see, Yeah, what if what do you know about
TJU primary tire relationship. Is there any insights that you
can tell us that maybe you're.
Speaker 11 (19:30):
So okay if you want me to tell you what
I know about her first and then yeah, okay, So I.
Speaker 12 (19:37):
Mean, and I don't even know it's online, Like we got
kind of personal in these groups just because we're all
going through a lot right now as first reformers.
Speaker 11 (19:45):
And healthcare professionals all the time use it as an
eventing tool, but we all kind of remain anonymous at
the same time.
Speaker 12 (19:53):
Uh so, like we don't put our remains on this
app or like any personal information.
Speaker 11 (19:59):
But because I been talking to her so long, you know,
I felt comfortable kind of breaking that seal.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I guess personally with her.
Speaker 11 (20:08):
And I've only done that with a couple of people
from the top, and so you know, we've like every
day almost We had like a girl group with nurses
that you know, she taught, talked about guys.
Speaker 12 (20:22):
You know, she talked about her.
Speaker 11 (20:22):
Marriage a few times, and then you know, she she's
you know, she mentioned that she was just really very
unhappy it's been.
Speaker 12 (20:33):
You know, cause I'm also gone through a divorce, so
we kind of like connected over that. And she said,
you know, I c she feel like she could leave yet,
but she needs to. She's miserable.
Speaker 11 (20:46):
I'm happy.
Speaker 14 (20:48):
Uh it's the kids.
Speaker 12 (20:49):
They've been together since they were eighteen, she said. But
she said he's very controlling. I think this was a
while ago.
Speaker 11 (20:59):
She didn't mention about him at some point getting physical,
I want to say, but she didn't say exactly what
or like, but that's kind.
Speaker 12 (21:08):
Of what she's insinuated.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You know.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
That's when I told her, like be needle to get
to the crowd.
Speaker 11 (21:13):
But you know, it just seemed like she just couldn't lead,
and that this was going on on for like a
long time. I mean, I I don't even know anything
else about her, Like I don't even know whose name,
but from what she.
Speaker 12 (21:26):
Talks about him, she was just.
Speaker 9 (21:30):
Not giving her a break. He was she felt like
she was being babysited because he was always hovering, always around.
Would she would go to the.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
Closet to do something he'd be right there. If she
went to the bedroom, he'd follow her to the bedroom.
I guess the most best way to equate.
Speaker 9 (21:47):
It is it's like having a toddler followed you around
to the bathroom. You can't even go key bout yourself.
I know that because I have two small children. Yeah,
they don't let me go to the bathroom alone.
Speaker 8 (21:58):
I want to shut the door, and I'm like, oh,
I don't know two seconds.
Speaker 15 (22:05):
Yeah, it's anything that gives you that, that gives you
that feeling, any gut that what happened.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Did you end up ever contacting anybody or you just
kind of let let the friend kind.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Of the friend.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
I've been talking to her. She was doing better throughout.
She was talking to me kind of opening up, and
that's I thought we were doing better. And she agreed
that she do couples counseling with me. And I said that,
you know, she's been waffling on it back and forth
(22:37):
for a month. She agreed she'd go, told me I
might not like all her answers, but that she would
go because I thought it was important. And so I
was gonna look into who I was.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And so you said you hit the guns where did
you have those at I had?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Oh, no them? What was up in my office?
Speaker 8 (23:04):
That I was?
Speaker 7 (23:05):
I didn't use it this week, but I've been using
for a few months. And then the extra bedroom upstairs,
and then was up there, and then the other one
was it hit a badass planning on put them in
my truck and trying to find him a friend to
take them to form the walls that will blow over,
(23:27):
and I felt.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Like she was better.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
How many guns do you all have too? Are they
both handguns and raffles guns? Do you know what they are?
Speaker 7 (23:37):
Wall there said twenty two nine millimeters springfield, Springfield.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
They used to have a Springfield now know where? I
traded it for a block.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I never liked blocks.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I didn't lock them until I started to love them,
So it was a it was a the transfer. But
they're very very simple to you and operate and take
down and clean and interchange parts and and all that stuff.
So I switched everything over her to more that was
(24:10):
she had any issues? Was she ever violent with him?
That she never? She never was physically abusive to Kim
that you know of her now, of that any kind
of physical abuse or or any kind of abuse at all.
That you know, it would be sending around the children
where the children ever involved.
Speaker 8 (24:27):
In from the kids, and they hadn't even told the
kids they were having issues.
Speaker 9 (24:32):
She was ready to they weren't supposed to sit down
to tell the kids, but then his dad ended up.
Speaker 8 (24:38):
In the er and they went to Colorado for a week,
and so they didn't get to talk to the kids.
Speaker 9 (24:42):
And then it was just one thing.
Speaker 8 (24:43):
After another, and they still hadn't had a chance to
tell the kids that they were having issues.
Speaker 9 (24:47):
But any kind of violence or abuse and none that is.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
There cool saying has uh has tomorrow? I ever had
any kind of uh, anxiety, depression, U, things of that nature,
m other.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
Than everything going on with Mike the past month or so.
Speaker 9 (25:07):
Yeah, it's been taken a.
Speaker 8 (25:08):
Toll on her mentally because she always he was always
around and she never got time for herself, like just
trying to be alone per se.
Speaker 9 (25:20):
And so I know that that was causing her to
be a little depressed obviously, but like a history of it, No,
I'll ask you.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
If mac had any history that you knew of of
suicidal thoughts and stuff like that. Did she have any
kind of history of suicide? Saw hafter this past two
day when he wouldn't leave her alone.
Speaker 9 (25:39):
She wanted out what happened there? She didn't do it.
Speaker 8 (25:45):
I came over and would just wouldn't let her. Made
talk to her and told her, was like, this is what.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
You wanna do.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I was like, ye, okay, now I know it's I
know it's horrid, but can you tell me all of
the details that you know about that specifically.
Speaker 9 (25:59):
Thing just that I keep corn at her. And when
she was texting me, it was the text that were like,
I've thought I think it's actual text. It was very
vague and ambiguous.
Speaker 8 (26:16):
But when I was a teenager, I had thought about
suicide too, and so just and she said there's only
one way out good and she says it's the only way.
Speaker 9 (26:37):
She's like, and she kept saying, She's like, I'm sorry,
it's the only way. I can't live like this.
Speaker 8 (26:41):
I want it to be over. It will be over soon,
only one step. He won't let me go. No, it's
And then I told her I was coming over. She said, no,
it's not safe to drive. And and then I told her
that I was coming and she kept saying, she said, Heather,
I'm okay, it will be okay, it's the only way.
Speaker 9 (26:58):
And then I told her that I would come.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I would tell her I was coming up when y'all
saw each other in person.
Speaker 15 (27:05):
When he got there, she came on the detail about
the advent at all about me that just like he was.
Speaker 9 (27:11):
Going on and on the same thing about wanted.
Speaker 8 (27:14):
Like trying to make it work, that she needs to
put the effort into making it work, and just things
that same conversations they've been happening is just a baruch
of it.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Did he tell you anything that happen? Did he speak
to you at all?
Speaker 9 (27:27):
Not about anything that happened? Yet she wasn't better in
the bed laying down, she was sitting up.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Anything about her? Did she say how she was going
to try to kill herself or anything? Or it was
just kind of baby text.
Speaker 9 (27:42):
Just that he took the gun away, So I would
assume that.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
She had a gun.
Speaker 11 (27:46):
Ye?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Is that in one of the deals that you s
sent me in a screenshop?
Speaker 9 (27:50):
It was it was verbal okay station when I was.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
There, So she told you that she had a.
Speaker 9 (27:54):
Gun, No, just that Mike took it.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Mike took it? Did to you? Did that mean she
actually like had to got in her hand and he
took it out of her hand.
Speaker 9 (28:01):
I don't know. I didn't ask specifically.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Okay, anything about m what not did with the gun?
Speaker 9 (28:11):
I I don't want.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Do you know how many guns they have in that house?
Yea too? Do you know what they are?
Speaker 9 (28:19):
She just told me.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I told you then or previously.
Speaker 9 (28:23):
Previously what they were?
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Okay, raffles. You know where they normally kept those guns at?
Speaker 9 (28:29):
I thought in the closet, but I'm not.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
One hundred percent shirt I don't. But it's not something
I went looking for.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Want some in detail, I's look about.
Speaker 16 (28:39):
Okay, I want you to be I want you to
understand what I'm asking cause I know some questions that
I'm asking.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I want you to read you for atch it. No,
I'm not insinuating that she killed herself or anything like that.
I just had to ask certain questions of you because
you were there for that event, and I want to
make sure that we have the whole picture so that
way criminal cases work. You know, it's either a plea
(29:14):
deal or it goes to trial. And if this ends
up in a trial, then I want all of our
ducks to know about previously, and so don't don't think
that we're, you know, trying to insing you anything like that.
We just want to make sure that we have all
of our stuff lined out and we have it very
accurate so that there's no surprises and we can do
the absolute best job to get justice for her. Is
(29:37):
there any details about that incident that she said about
the gun, having the gun, going to use the gun,
pointing the gun, anything at all other than mock took
the gun.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
Oh, just think you took it.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So she's actually texting you while she's in the closet. No,
it says beg. Yeah, it's been begging for fifteen minutes
to let me go, and you responded back, he won't
let you go.
Speaker 9 (30:05):
He is saying that he won't. He's not willing to
give up on the marriage.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Okay, this is not talking specifically about her closet. Has
your wife ever had any suicidal stuff prior to this week?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
A couple of years ago, sh had thoughts of it,
m through it.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Hmmm, we worked through it, worked through it. Has she
ever had any kind of a medical treatment forward or
anything like that.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
She just started opening up about when she was in
maybe middle school or high school, she went to counseling.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Just recently told me that.
Speaker 7 (30:42):
You know, she was abused when she was a kid, Okay,
and then that's why she's been not wanting to go
to therapy with me because she didn't like.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Experience physical abuse or sexual abuse.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Sexual from what she's told me, do.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
You know who it was had done it to her?
Like a family or boyfriend?
Speaker 7 (30:59):
Think it was friends of her dad and maybe your
stepdad one including when she was living with her dad
in Michigan, there was the neighbor she had a babysitting
and woke up to.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Him over and there was other ones that she didn't
tell me about.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
But she told me, oh, so you just like not
just one thing or not just one person, kind of.
Speaker 7 (31:20):
Multiple And so she's she's struggled with that before.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
And so, like I said, we worked through and I've
been trying to have been I've never been.
Speaker 7 (31:42):
Great with sharing my emotions, and that's why i went
to counseling, trying to be a better husband and better dad.
I've been able to reconnect my kids a lot, like
we have a lot more conversations.
Speaker 12 (31:54):
And that was another Yeah, she did say, I don't
remember I your sister's lost. So long ago that I
don't remember specifics.
Speaker 11 (32:06):
But I do m I do remember her saying at
some point she got like she felt like a little
intimidated by.
Speaker 12 (32:12):
Him, like insimulated that he might physically do something. And
that's when I told her, like, you didn't get out
you know this?
Speaker 14 (32:19):
That has she ever had any events where when she's
had a mental breakdown or tried to calm herself or
anything of that incidence or.
Speaker 11 (32:33):
She did not s. I know Heather told me this
morning about you know, last week, but she never told.
Speaker 12 (32:39):
Me anything about wanting to harm herself or anyone else.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Was that before her coming silver those.
Speaker 12 (32:46):
Yes, that was before. Yeah, I haven't spoken to her
since she called me from her station. I just texted
her to.
Speaker 9 (32:54):
Room from her.
Speaker 12 (32:54):
But sh I mean there were times where she would
she I mean, she was crying, you know, cause.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
She what were the plans were trying to work it out?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Were they gonna split up? Were they were trying to
look out assets? Told me the name? What was there?
Speaker 12 (33:08):
She said, She didn't say it. She said she's been
trying for years. They were trying to work things out
for years.
Speaker 11 (33:15):
And she just can't do it anymore, Like exactly like that,
she pretty much said, and that you know, she's just
been trying to lead sort of thing.
Speaker 12 (33:26):
But he'd like kind of guilt tricks her.
Speaker 11 (33:29):
M but that like she hasn't been in love with him.
Speaker 12 (33:33):
For like at least a year.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, do you know a specific time name where she
has She told him like, hey, the marriage is over,
l or is He saw an impression they were trying
to work things out.
Speaker 11 (33:45):
She made it sound like she told him mult of
times that did you know she's not happy.
Speaker 12 (33:49):
That she was out?
Speaker 11 (33:53):
I guess last night when she tested me what she said,
I told him I'm done. I thought that meant catching
up since you know, she lost power for a little bit,
so I didn't really think anything of it. But father
told me that.
Speaker 12 (34:06):
She said no, she told him that she's done with
the marriage, cause.
Speaker 11 (34:09):
I guess she told Heeather something similar, and you know
she knows her better.
Speaker 12 (34:13):
So I was like, oh, I realize that.
Speaker 11 (34:17):
She had texted me so she wasn't terre she would
be able to come out tonight because of all the
work she had to do.
Speaker 12 (34:24):
And then you know, I said, no problem.
Speaker 11 (34:27):
You know I we ended up pushing the reservation out,
So she said, you know she would come.
Speaker 12 (34:33):
She's like, you know, I'm.
Speaker 11 (34:34):
Gonna come blah blah blah, I just got out of
the shower, or make me late, but I'll be there.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (34:40):
And then she said, I'll text you when I leave.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
I think I've heard of it. I think I found
on my website. I think I kind of a quiz
for it. And then with that, she and I actually
took it a.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Week or two ago.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Okay, so recently, what was uh her love language? There's
trying to remember the five of them. There's affirmation was
words of affirmation.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Gifting wasn't high, but it was higher than.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Mine receiving gifts. Gift the one where you do things
for the.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
House, act certain information her last, and.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Then of course the intimate side of it, and you
know that's most men.
Speaker 7 (35:28):
But we never never really had a problem with that.
Seventeen years ago, never really had a problem there.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Me and my wife had a friend of ours give
us that book and we read it and it was
it kind of puts things in perspective, like because you're
raised a certain way by your parents and she's raised
a certain way by her parents, and you know, I
mean you kind of got to understand this is how
this person thinks or perceives or whatever. So it really
(35:58):
helped us because my wife's grandmother always bought her gifts.
Like they never they never said I love you. They
never like they didn't come up and give you a hug.
You know, they just like their way of showing love
was you know, hey, here's a birthday prisoner, here's a gift,
or here's this, and so you know, it kind of
opened my eyes a little bit on Okay, let me
see thinks of her perspective instead.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Of mind looking into some books and workbooks and stuff
with me.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
Had a friend who from high school when she got
divorced not long ago, don't ask her what would you
wish you to differently? And she said that she wished
she would have done that. And she's telling some of
her church groups were not overly religious. But she was
telling me, like, you know, the church has a lot
of resources, and can.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
You just walk me through what you do remember from
today and that way we can kind of try to
piece together while we're here today.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
We were working, we're talking to them.
Speaker 7 (36:54):
Think it took a shower, I can down the life
and I were talking about I wanted to buying a
new mattress.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
One we have is too soft, dips really bat in
the middle.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Well, I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Is it normal for you not to remember your day? No,
you peel.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Happened?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It happened the other night.
Speaker 7 (37:26):
When her best friend came over. They had passed out
in the bed, and I didn't want to intrudes or anything,
so I set up the couch and my WIPEX came
out to just check on me, and she found me
on the floor.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Or happened I passed out, I don't know. I was
just tired. I remember standing there.
Speaker 7 (37:48):
Thinking we could get on the couch, and then I
woke up on my back the floor.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
You said to mind and your your head. You had
them scratches on your back. You said you had how
many dogs?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Sorry?
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Three dogs? What kind of dogs were they? Two pugs
in a bulldog, two pugs in a bulldog. They all
stay inside the pain. There's a lot of dogs in
one house. Obviously, I can't tell you all the details
(38:23):
about the case, I understand, but if you do have
specific questions, if I can't answer them, I'll just tell
you I can't answer them, but I'll i'll answer everything
that I can if there's anything that.
Speaker 9 (38:33):
I can answer from you, I don't know if I'm
ready yet.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And that's that's perfectly fine. And and questions like that
that you're probably talking about I probably wouldn't answer anyways,
I'm not at this point.
Speaker 9 (38:47):
Did you have three dogs in a cat.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
So the house was set on fire?
Speaker 9 (38:53):
I did read that.
Speaker 12 (38:54):
I didn't.
Speaker 9 (38:54):
It didn't say anything about the extent of it.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
The house. The the one room in the house bur
pretty good, and there was a lot of smoke, and
I believe that the smoke killed all the animals. I
can't tell you that the three dogs and the cat
were ones though.
Speaker 11 (39:14):
That was it.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
I believe that two popes.
Speaker 9 (39:17):
Two pos, the English and the cat.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Even Why do you think you're having trouble focused in
or why do you think you can't remember stuff on.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
The day, Well remember this stuff?
Speaker 9 (39:33):
And it's not.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I do all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I do sometimes.
Speaker 7 (39:37):
It's had a really bad concussion in high school, and
some of my short term to want term memory is
always there.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
That's one of the areas that the pisted my wife.
Speaker 9 (39:46):
That was it.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
We talk and I wouldn't necessarily remember it an hour later.
And I want to reiterate every go over the conversation.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I just want you to. I just want you to
kind of think real hard and try to go chronological
throughout your day to day from tom you woke up,
and what happened, and what you did, what you ate,
and what you did for breakfast, and what you did
for lunch and what you did for work, and just
kind of see maybe you can piece together you know
what happened today and and why we can't remember it.
(40:22):
Do you remember what you ate for breakfast?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Do you eat anything for lunch? Or was that your
launch the toast? Do you anythink for dinner tonight? Does
he have any medical conditions or anything that you know about,
Not that I know of anything that was physical mental.
Speaker 9 (40:45):
You may have pts from the military.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
What would make you I don't.
Speaker 12 (40:56):
A long time.
Speaker 9 (40:57):
I know he's lost your friends. Oh there, and I
think he wasn't against.
Speaker 8 (41:04):
It's been a long, long, long time since I've thought.
Speaker 9 (41:06):
About his military career.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Okay, Does he have any kind of mental problems? Like
is he a see a very Is he smart intellectual?
Speaker 9 (41:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
He's very smart, very smart. Has he ever had any
problems remembering things? Any problems not recalling events or not
that I'm aware of. No mental lapses, no, no hospital state.
Then she was seventeen, and how were you know thirty.
Speaker 9 (41:36):
Four status that I'll be thirty five this year.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Well, I wouldn't guess it.
Speaker 15 (41:41):
Is he ever you'll ever had a conversation And five
seconds says you're having the same conversation because he didn't remember.
Speaker 9 (41:47):
He just had it, not with me particularly.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Okay, what do you when you say that?
Speaker 9 (41:53):
Just how he would go on and on.
Speaker 8 (41:55):
Like she would take some tell him and then he
just would pretty much ignore it and just keep going
when it was talking with her, when with other regular
conversations that we've all been around, these never had any
issues remembering.
Speaker 9 (42:10):
Sometimes I'll remember stuff and like, oh I couldn't even remember.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Okay to somebody, I can't remember, and I don't I
don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Do you remember the police coming to your house?
Speaker 9 (42:26):
This? Even?
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I remember being on the sidewalk on my face.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Okay, Michael Kemmer, Yeah, look at me, brother, I'm gonna
be honest with you. Can you be honest with me?
You called non one one tonight? Do you know why
you would tell them that you wanted to kill yourself.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
In the last ten years, has been three times that
I wanted to kill myself. If I'd said that tonight, if.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You want me to be honest with you, in the
last ten years, you wanted to kill yourself three different times.
There's three moments, three moments I never did. What are
those three moments?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
One of them I got before I went back to school.
That's right over, my boss.
Speaker 7 (43:38):
Everything had been going really good and I failed my wife,
I failed the kids, and we were in a really
bad place as far as financials go, and I wasn't
(43:59):
doing well coping with.
Speaker 11 (44:02):
With it.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
It was.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
It was a hit to me, and.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
There had been.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Remembers that wellife had sucked like a coworker.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
She told me wasn't true, but it was just another
pace something else that's in stress.
Speaker 11 (44:35):
That's how they told you about the kind of online
things she had going on with Dan, who was you know.
Speaker 12 (44:43):
I also was friendly from the app as well as
kind of roll in the same group. So I don't
recall any.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Other ancorities, any specific events about violence, him being physically abusive,
her uncle.
Speaker 15 (44:57):
Her her being physically abusive unco that's uh.
Speaker 12 (45:03):
I do remember her saying once that she was crying
all day because they were fighting. I guess, Oh, I
do remember something. Actually, the husband left.
Speaker 11 (45:14):
The iPad in her room one night and heard her
on the phone with Dan, like I guess for the
you know, record of the whole conversation.
Speaker 12 (45:23):
Without her knowing. And then she found out afterwards when
he did get speak over her like a a minute
or two, and then he had her shut it off.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
All those goose maybe.
Speaker 12 (45:39):
A month, maybe more than a month, like two months
ago some one of that. And then she had that
thing going on Dan, you know, which was like really
intense even though they never have met, like it seemed
like it was. They were really really close.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Sa chats. The intense in the aspect of like she
told me she was like in.
Speaker 12 (46:04):
Love with him, you know, she wanted to be with
him like one day. But then at the same time
she knew it was not realistic. They were just really
really close, Like she just made it sound like they
were in the tech thing.
Speaker 14 (46:19):
Did Dan know all of her stuff too, like with
with her husband and Pop Williams and stuff like that,
or was or did she keep.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Such stuff away from him?
Speaker 12 (46:27):
Yeah, I think she definitely such thing. So he sent
me it cause I had to break the news of
him this morning.
Speaker 11 (46:34):
He lives in Costa Rica and I guess he's like
his mountain house with the wifi's knockers.
Speaker 12 (46:40):
So he came foh amaphone. So we've been you know, Preston.
He sent me screenshots of the last n they s
you know, them.
Speaker 11 (46:48):
Talking, which was like a minute of feeling me in
her texting Wow, and it sounded like she was talking about.
Speaker 12 (46:58):
Him, the husband. It's oo fun. Then she said I
told Mike, which I'm assuming that's her husband. I'm done.
I'm saying, Gina tonight me.
Speaker 11 (47:11):
She asked that she could stay over. He goes, oh
what happened? She said, I can't do this anymore. My
mental health can't handle him coming. And then I got
cut off and says he and I don't know.
Speaker 12 (47:24):
And then did he do something?
Speaker 11 (47:26):
Uh? He did?
Speaker 12 (47:29):
I mean, that's all him, tryna miss.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
She wanted him to fix himself first, work on himself first.
Speaker 9 (47:35):
What their communication was lacking.
Speaker 8 (47:38):
He didn't express his emotions well, so he kind of
just wasn't letting her back in and.
Speaker 9 (47:46):
He needed to focus on that.
Speaker 15 (47:50):
Okay, as far as you know, was there anything do
you know I'm not trying to talk to ill about
your your your friend. I just wanna I gotta ask you.
Is there any she cheating on him? Anything seeing anybody else?
Speaker 9 (48:08):
She he knew it was a online a pair of
coltay cause he lives in Costa Rica. She knew it
was nothing that would ever physically happen.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Kay, But he knew that she was having this online
affair of in October.
Speaker 9 (48:24):
He knew. He he found out before I did.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
So he found out the October of twenty twenty pasted October.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
When did it get in? When was it ended?
Speaker 9 (48:35):
No? She told him that sh it, She wasn't ending it.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Any cost and she and he knew.
Speaker 9 (48:41):
And he, oh, yeah, he knew.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
How did he found out?
Speaker 9 (48:44):
She said it was name in her sleep?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
She said okay, and then I guess he just confronted
her about it or yeah.
Speaker 9 (48:50):
He asked her who that was and she wasn't gonna
lie to him.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
So she told him, I'm guessing you have no idea
how to get in contact with this old boy.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
In Costa Rica.
Speaker 9 (48:59):
What do you need to know?
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well?
Speaker 4 (49:01):
Hell, yeah, what's name?
Speaker 9 (49:05):
His name's Dan, the last name I don't have. Do
you know how the communicated they primarily did on kick
and Snapchat.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
Dan, Yeah, is a phone numbered or reach him a
phone number?
Speaker 9 (49:18):
I can reach him on Snapchat and that's about it.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Do you have him on your statso I do. Well,
you go to his profile and and a screenshot his
uh user Nate.
Speaker 9 (49:28):
He was he was worried about her. And I'm sure
if he already.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
Knows, you want to stupen it.
Speaker 9 (49:33):
Oh just he just fell and only says he's so worried. Okay,
Uh she I know.
Speaker 12 (49:43):
She said that they used to have like an open
merit where she did say a.
Speaker 11 (49:49):
Story once where I guess she was over another man's
house and the wife the guy walked in on that
and then at you know, their kids swam together. So
when she saw Mara's husband at the swimming.
Speaker 12 (50:09):
School, she went up to him and like told him
what she saw, and I guess he said, yeah, I
know I have the pictures. You want to see them
or like something like that, like he already knew about it.
So sh She made it sound like they.
Speaker 11 (50:25):
Had like kind of an open marriage type thing at
some point. I'm not really sure that was still the
case now, but.
Speaker 12 (50:32):
For how long ago that was but that was the story.
Speaker 9 (50:34):
She did mention once about him.
Speaker 12 (50:39):
Other than that that he was controlling, rolling. So that's
when she kind of opened up about her marriage a
little bit, that.
Speaker 11 (50:47):
You know, he was really controlling and this and that,
and you know, always wants to be with her, makes
her feel guilty when she wants to do things for herself,
that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Any reason to believe this did's line about who he
is or.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Anything?
Speaker 1 (51:08):
S cat sketchy a house.
Speaker 12 (51:11):
No, h, I don't think so.
Speaker 11 (51:14):
His name is actually jose Whose Yeah. What he had
told me he didn't share with more.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
I don't know why.
Speaker 12 (51:21):
I guess he was embarrassed because he wanted to sound
like more white, he said, so he changed, he seemed
to Dan.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
When did he play this.
Speaker 12 (51:35):
Mm like a month of a baby?
Speaker 9 (51:37):
No?
Speaker 12 (51:37):
I didn't cause I didn't feel like it was my face.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Okay, so his name is really whose?
Speaker 8 (51:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (51:44):
What what was like, Dan?
Speaker 1 (51:45):
What about The Good Dead was there? I know this
may seem silly, but you were just trying to get him,
Oh yeah, whatever movie was?
Speaker 5 (52:00):
Was there a sexual relationship?
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Puting to them, like were they own sexting and sending pictures.
Speaker 5 (52:05):
And and you know, sex talk and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah, okay, did and you may not know the answer
this question because you and Marl had met from a
person or whatever. But did Maura's husband know that side
of him?
Speaker 11 (52:20):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (52:21):
From what I'm aware that there was.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
A sexual sidle yeh.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
Did she just say you that her husband knew like
that or I she said that he knew everything?
Speaker 5 (52:31):
Said what do you call Hi Jose or Dan Jose?
Speaker 1 (52:38):
I was gonna get confusing if she showed up to
dinn last night?
Speaker 5 (52:40):
You said Jose and she said Dan.
Speaker 12 (52:42):
Yeah, I know I mentioned that. I said, you know,
if I slipped by accident.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
Sorry, but.
Speaker 12 (52:49):
I I mean I felt kind of weird to be honest,
that she didn't know who's her own name?
Speaker 15 (52:52):
But yeah, especially if it's this, I mean this involved
in yeah, involved in the Vincy kind of thing.
Speaker 11 (53:00):
He was really weird even about telling me. But I'm
a type of person like if I'm gonna give you
my snaps out any or something like, I need to
know your real name. And I knew his girl name
wasn't bad like.
Speaker 12 (53:09):
He's in closed. He was born was prist Luca. I
insist said, I said, I you know, you have to
tell me you real name. And then he finally you.
Speaker 11 (53:16):
Know, tolt me like he took him a little bit
and he was very like uncomfortable about her.
Speaker 4 (53:22):
Is is Dan just a friends to you even had her?
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Or is he?
Speaker 9 (53:27):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (53:28):
Is he a lot more flirty and stuff like that
with y'all too?
Speaker 12 (53:30):
I mean he's flirty, but me and him are friends.
Speaker 5 (53:34):
You think they were.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Crossed a lot of type friends.
Speaker 12 (53:37):
Uh No, I mean he tried to you know, a
while ago, but I was with someone and you know,
I can start of turn him down.
Speaker 5 (53:46):
But a while ago, like while he was involved with
this was before they.
Speaker 12 (53:52):
Were kind of like like you know, seriously talking. I
didn't even know about her. This was when I was
in here, and when I was here in Dallas, I
met someone that I you know, messaged me, you know,
kind of wording and this is not my fendly told them,
and uh that's where I'm trying to figure out what
(54:17):
ching about. And then he said I'd rather have him
of a friend or nothing, not celebrating.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
The reason I'm l asking is the is does jose
only have Moura in this online relationship thing?
Speaker 5 (54:33):
Or ispose you got multiple women the same way?
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Things that make sense?
Speaker 12 (54:39):
Yeah, no, I'm kind of saying this, Okay.
Speaker 11 (54:44):
Yeah, before he did have a lot of different type
of uh, online relationships.
Speaker 12 (54:53):
I guess it was a COVID. You know, he's having
difficulty and dating or whatever. So he times wanted me
to stick put the online in.
Speaker 11 (55:00):
And he did have a bunch of like women he
was talking to decided that they wanted to be serious,
I guess, and that's when I don't try everyone else off.
Speaker 5 (55:10):
So you feel that he was solely focused on more.
Speaker 11 (55:14):
Yeah, because even in the groups that we were in,
and everyone knew that they were proud of an items
like they you.
Speaker 12 (55:20):
Know, he's just very open about it in the group
with other people.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
If you'll sing those those I know request, I'll make
sure that no go into and always does Huh she.
Speaker 7 (55:34):
Works remote, she has permanent or did she do that today?
Every day one of her off days?
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Her ads on there.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
Okay, so she worked today? Then yes, today's Friday. Do
y'all work in the same room or separate rooms?
Speaker 2 (55:52):
This week? We worked in the same room.
Speaker 7 (55:54):
Just trying to say electricity and and everything was what's
been going on, the weather and stuff.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
That's so we were.
Speaker 7 (56:03):
Trying to condense where we were so we didn't have
to heed as much and use as much electricity. So
I sat in the chair and she was on the bed,
and we were being pretty playful and bantering.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
I remember that. I remember sending you some playful texts. Yeah,
as we've always done that.
Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yeah, just kind of keeping things fun.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
Well, she's, you know, in a meeting. I can't necessarily
see things and stuff.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
So does she see patients, like is she like facetiming
patience or that they.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Take contract to a pharmaceutical company?
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Okay, well, I think we're getting a little bit further
because you remember sending text messages to your wife today,
so that's earlier. About what time you think that was?
Speaker 2 (56:56):
Really afternoon? Warning?
Speaker 1 (57:00):
One more tonsor can.
Speaker 3 (57:01):
I talk to earlawyer because I'm in so far over
my head I don't know what's happening.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Okay, that's that's perfectly You're about to do so so
we can get you an attorney to and then speak
with you after you have an attorney.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
Getting confused all your questions, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
You're perfectly fine. You're going to you are going to
be under arrest. Okay, you're going to be taking a
tense instead of present tense.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
No no, no, no, no, m m.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
There's any age you do Michael, okay yeah yeah yeah,
please Mack, don't fall down on me. If you're like,
can sit down chair.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
H mm hmm.
Speaker 9 (58:16):
It's not true.
Speaker 2 (58:19):
This is not true.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Please what are you talking to me for yourself?
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Please?
Speaker 1 (58:30):
So it's not true your daughter is deceased.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
No, I would never.
Speaker 8 (58:39):
Now you've listened.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
Now go to your thing
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