WE CHAT WITH THE INTERNATIONAL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATORS ASSOCIATION

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to True Detective Stories podcast,a podcast where homicide detectives share their most
intense cases. Let's begin. Welcomeeveryone, I'm doctor Carlos, professor and
forensic psychology side and one of thethings I will hope to get done today

(00:22):
is to try to clarify some ofthe myths that we have out there.
Learn about this great association we're goingto be talking about called International Homicide Investigators
Association IHIA. Right down below,you'll see their Instagram handle. You definitely
want to catch it there. Butthis is an organization that I hope you
will clear a lot of those missout and find out what they do.
To help me out with that isgoing to be the head of communications and

(00:43):
public relations of the IHIA, CrystalUnions and the president, Lieutenant Paul Bli.
He's going to help us out todayas well to find out what's going
on in the world of homicide.So, without further ado, let's welcome
both to the show. Welcome Pauland Crystal. How are you. I'm
good, Thank you great, Thanksfor having us, Oh, thank you
for being here again. This isone of those I would just say it's

(01:06):
a popular topic among the general population. They can get their daily dose of
homicides from Criminal Minds and Law andOrder and all those other shows out there.
But now we're going to talk aboutthe real stuff, see how it
is. But before we get toall that, what is IHI A crystal
Well, it was founded during thenineteen eighty eight symposium by the FBI and

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since then, you know, justreally focused on bringing training to those that
are that are members. And themembership is it varies. It includes you
know, highly respected death and homicideinvestigators, criminal behaviorists, forensic scientists,
crime scene technicians, prosecutors, thelist goes on and on. But it
brings that group together to discuss,you know, trends or to learn new

(01:53):
things, but really creates that partnershipand that communication that is so necessary with
side investigations. And they have awe have a symposium yearly and advanced training
throughout the United States and actually wehave members in each US state and nations
on six continents, so a largemembership and its continuing to grow very quickly.

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But a great thing to be apart of, especially if you're in
that field fascinating stuff. Is Houn'sa great organization. Let me ask you
this, Crystal, how long hasit been around? What was founded in
nineteen eighty eight and since then continuingto grow thirty years, absolutely thirty years,

(02:39):
and you know, an organization thatnurtures that interagency cooperation and professional interactions,
increased communication. And that is whyit's it's growing so quickly because it's
something that if you're in that fieldof you know, homicide investigators, it's
something you absolutely want to be apart of because that communication, as I

(03:00):
said, is not only happening amongstinvestigators. The membership is large and the
members vary, so that's something thatyou absolutetely benefit for if you're in that
field. Absolutely. That kind ofgets me thinking now when I head over
to Paul for AMNED Paul, soshe was talking about advanced trainings. What

(03:22):
are some of the most popular trainingsIHI does well. Currently, we have
an Advanced home site course, whichis a week long course that was recently
developed in partnership with the FBI,and that course has been very very well
received. We've got some of thosecourses are filling up with one hundred and
twenty two, one hundred and fortyinvestigators from the regions in which we're holding

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them in addition to that, wehave a basic class that we developed well
in conjunction with the DOJ. Ithink it was back about two thousand and
four, and that was really totry to help every agency across the United
States really have a baseline of whereto begin their homicide investigations. So it's

(04:06):
a pretty basic death investigations class andit covers a wide range of topics within
a week. The Advanced class reallysteps that game up, and we're looking
at you know, obviously, astrends move in different directions or technology changes,
we've updated the basic class as wellto kind of bring it much more

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up to speed and being contemporary withwhat's going on now. Excellent, let
me ask you this brought up aboutfour thousand questions in my head now,
but I'll try and narrow them downon a couple here in regards to homicide.
How things changed in the last twentyor thirty years or have they changed
at all? Well, you know, obviously we have technology considerations, right.

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I think everybody watches a TV.They're well aware of cell phones,
they're well aware of you know,some of that technology. There was a
case that was solved by a fitbit in San Jose. They've had Alexa
cases, you know, where itwas recording some information. So obviously the

(05:11):
technology component is one of those thatevolves tremendously. But the reality is homicide
investigations are really about people. Ifyou can talk to one hundred people on
most investigations, you're very likely goingto solve that. And so we really
in our yearly symposium, we obviouslyfocus on new and emerging trends, but

(05:33):
every year, year after year,we go back to those basics. Interviewing
an interrogation right again, it's justtalking to people. I think most of
your homicide detectives they're kind of people. They're people people, and they do
want to get out there and talkto people. They don't want to necessarily
sit in the office and pour throughthousands in thousands of pages of information in

(06:00):
data, but that is also somethingthey have to do. So it's really
kind of trying to strike that balance. So I don't know that it's changed
a tremendous amount from you know,how it's been back in you know for
thirty or forty years, but thereis a lot of additional workload and component
that really drives a lot of thoseinvestigations kind of reminds me of that show.

(06:23):
I think we've spoke about a littlebit before the Wire, and it
kind of reminds me of that whenthey said, oh, he's real police.
So I guess it's referring to anold school sounds like that kind of
applies to homicide as well. Yeah. Absolutely, a great show. I
think I've seen that series a coupleof times. That's really amazing. Let
me ask you this, some ofthe shows that we see today, you

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know, we call the the CSIeffect. Some of those things put challenges
for a lot of officers because itgives the public, how would you say,
it misleads them and expecting you guysto solve homicide within less than forty
five minutes, you should be ableto get the DNA in a couple of
hours and all this other stuff.Is that something also that you work in
the trainings or is this something thatchallenges homicide detectives? Yeah, I think

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it is challenging obviously. I thinkthat challenge really becomes more evident during a
trial period where you're trying to educateyou know, jurors who, thank god,
they don't have to work in thisin that industry, right, But
they do have some of the popularmedia or the popular television shows that are

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somewhat misleading, right, you know, with the amount of time or even
how the evidence can be processed andwhat you're really going to get from them.
You know, evidence only has meaningand context, and sometimes they don't
quite grasp that initially. But thatchallenge really comes in, and that's where

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we have a lot of prosecutors thatcome to our training as well, because
that's really their challenge is to educatethe rural about all things homicide and why
we got to the conclusion that wegot to about who the perpetrator was.
It's hard when those jurors and thepublic and those you know, the victim's

(08:13):
family is has kind of like afalse this expectation that the things happen as
quickly as they do and that thattechnology exists in all agencies, you know,
throughout the United States. So it'sdiscouraging for investigators to have that added
stress constantly that someone feels like ifyou're not solving the case immediately, that

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you're not doing work, and thatcan be you know, really bring them
arale down amongst investigators because they havethat added pressure and sometimes a victim's family,
especially now with the existence of socialmedia, is very vocal about when
a case isn't solved that possibly it'sbecause they're not doing the work, and
that is not the case at all. Sometimes either the techology doesn't exist for

(09:01):
that agency, or it just looksa lot simpler on television when you're trying
to fit it into a thirtyion orsixty minute show. That's not how it
works, and things take time,so that added stress. And then when
that word gets gets out through socialmedia, you know, the buzz that
certainly doesn't doesn't help the case.I absolutely agree. Actually, that brings

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me another question for you, Crystal, in regards to the communications there.
Do you guys offer lectures at all, maybe at one or two hour lecture
helping homicide attextas on handling situations likethat the prosecutors and covering those topics and
maybe the hot topics that you seeout there, like you know, instant
DNA and all this other stuff that'sgoing on. You have anything like that

(09:43):
that they offer, Well, Ithink they're at the symposiums and at the
trainings. A lot of times wehave, you know, specific courses on
those types of topics. But alsowe have speakers to speak the typically on
those topics and offer further insight intothose. But I think that going back

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to social media sometimes for the investigatorsas well, is you know, people
spreading information, whether it be trueor whether it be false information, but
damaging the case and possibly exposing maybetheir leads, because it's so important for
people to jump on the soapbox andreally feel like they've got to express this

(10:30):
when really they are hurting the cases. Absolutely good point, absolutely, And
Paul, that guess brings me overto you now in regards to homicide detectives.
That brings me over to another questionfor you, Paul, in regards
to social media. You've been anofficer I forgot how many years, twenty
years, almost twenty one, twentyone years, so you've seen a lot

(10:52):
of changes and social media has beena new game, hasn't it? For
police? It has? You know. Obviously I was around during the days
of my Space, and obviously we'veprogressed significantly with all the various platforms of
social media, and those can bevery very important to the cases. I

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think Crystal brings up a couple ofgood points too. It can be damaging
and I do think that when shetalked about the frustration of the family related
to the CSI effect, that isone hundred percent something that the detectives deal
with. And you know, Ihad I was fortunate to be involved in

(11:39):
a cold case that spanned about fortysome odd years. And when we look
at the technology that we currently haveand we look at what the detectives in
the late seventies collected, they collecteda lot of you know, just in
cold cases in general, and alot of the cold cases I've worked on,
they collect things that they didn't evenknow how they were going to test.

(12:03):
And you got to really look atthat now, because now we're looking
at being able to solve cases withgenealogy, something that didn't exist twenty four
months ago and is very very quicklyevolving. We've actually have several speakers at
our symposium this year specifically related tothat because it is such a hot emerging

(12:24):
trend within homicide investigations, and wealso very much touch on social media investigations.
We actually have a dark web presentationthis year as well, which while
I don't think that most homicide detectivesend up having to delve into that realm,

(12:45):
necessarily. I could certainly see thatbecoming a trend. That's an excellent
point. Excellent point. Wasn't itthe serial killer up in California kut on
that genealogy thing? Yeah, thatwas here in Sacramento, is known as
the East Dairy rapist. But he'sa golden that's right, amazing stuff.
Thank god they caught him. Letme ask you this, what are some

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of the things you hear the most? The organization's been around for what is
it, my math folks, thirtyyears? What are some of the things
you've heard over and over some ofthe themes that homicide detectives want to learn
about, want to get more trainingon. Well, I think it follows
the trends that everybody is looking at, you know, like I said,

(13:28):
genealogy, we actually have a classspecific to that. And then we also
have some prosecutors that are going tobe speaking to prosecuting cases utilizing that type
of information and the best practices forthat. And I think there's going to
be a lot of detectives that aregonna be very interested in that, certainly
cold case detectives, and they also, like I said, still want the

(13:54):
interview and interrogation information utilizing a varietyof different types of technology, whether that's
you know, their shot spotter that'sout there that essentially detects when gunfire is
happening within a community and helps pinpointthat. So, you know, what
can that do for them? Whatcan maybe license plate reader technology or facial

(14:18):
recognition technology do for them in theirinvestigations. You know, you make some
great points, and I know Iinterviewed a district attorney a couple of weeks
ago. I think it was aprosecutor from Texas, and he was telling
me exactly the same thing. It'sso important for especially homicide detectives to understand

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how to get the evidence, whatto do with the evidence. And he
does training courses I think just forthe locals now they're in Texas. But
that's an awesome offering that you guyshave because I think it's really important.
We see that a lot. Youknow, I'm a backseat kind of law
enforcement guy. I never was inlaw enforcement. When you see it on
TV shows, especially the Wire,I guess I'll keep that the most accurate

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you can see that process and howimportant it really is to develop the evidence.
Yeah, absolutely, you know,working with the prosecutors and developing a
case really, I think gives alot of different views and insight into it.
And I also think that that reallyhelps keep everybody on the right track
as well. You know, obviouslysome of these investigations go for years and

(15:24):
they don't get solved immediately, andit's not uncommon to have somebody that looks
like a great suspect and travel downthat path, but then getting other input
from not only prosecutors, but otherdetectives to look at the same thing you're
looking at, and they may seesomething that you know, you're focused on

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something and they're like, hey,well what about this, And you realize,
okay, well that's a pretty significantgap in how this person is the
suspect and where are we going togo from there? Excellent stuff, excellent
stuff, and I think just we'rebring Crystal back. Get here for a
second. Paul was mentioning you havea symposium coming up. We do.

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We have a symposium coming up inAustin, Texas, and that'll be in
August, and every years it's ina different city and that's where we'll be
this August and highly anticipated and allnew speakers and as Paul mentioned, some
of the older topics that they're consistentlyinterested in, but always something new and

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fresh to offer every year. Great, and that's all. We can get
more information on that at the website. You can get more information right on
our website. Also if you followus on social media, we're constantly posting
updates and reminders. But kind ofwalk yourself through. It's a super simple
website and you can always give usa call and we'll walk you through the

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registration process as well. Orientswer anyquestions right down here. For UKs,
you can see i HIA dot orgto get that information at symposium that is
it for Leo's only or we havenot only do we have law enforcement officers,
but like I said, prosecutors,we have corners that come. So
it's really open to death investigation professionals, well hope hosts. Certainly we could

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have you there. There are somelaw enforcement sensitive presentations, but for the
most part, anybody that is reallyinvolved in that that field we have.
There's like I said, corners,there's pathologists that come. We have a
number of academics as well, obviouslyforensic psychologists. We've had forensic psychologists speak

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for us on numerous occasions, andalso forensic scientists as well. I can
always leave when the sensitive information comesand grab a buffin and come right back
in after no problem. Hopefully wecan see some people there at the symposium
ATIA dot org and find more informationthere. But Paul, let me ask

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you this. You know, I'veinterviewed a lot of officers lately. Actually
I have an interviewed kind but I'vespoken with a lot of officers from around
the world and speaking with officers fromBrazil to Ireland, to England to Germany,
and it's been fascinating a great time. My wife is like, what
are you doing Anyway, It's beena lot of fun talking to them because
it's so different sometimes and yet sometimesso similar. And you guys cover that

(18:30):
area, tell us a little bitabout that. Yeah, you know,
I would agree with you one hundredpercent. It is so interesting to look
at what the similarity is and yetthe differences are. And this year we
actually had you mentioned Germany. Wehave a speaker coming from Germany that investigated
a nurse in Germany that it lookslike he killed about one hundred and four

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patients intentionally, So that's going tobe very fascinating. He's actually going to
be speaking. We also do managementseminar during our symposium, and he is
actually going to be speaking specifically tothe similarities and differences between American law enforcement
and German homicide investigations or investigations ingeneral. We're very proud of the fact

(19:17):
that we do have a wide contingentof folks from throughout the world. Every
year, we have members from Australia, the Netherlands, obviously our neighbors to
the north in Canada. Get Wedon't have as many out of Mexico,
which we're really trying to cultivate gettingthose law enforcement officers up here to participate.

(19:42):
We do have a number of newmembers actually out of Brazil, so
it's been kind of fun corresponding withthem, getting to know them online.
And then of course we actually havea kind of a member at large that's
in the United Kingdom and he comesover every year, brings a Bobby helmet

(20:04):
for our raffle that we do fora charity, and is a tremendous individual
to speak with. But he's youknow, we have a lot of great
ambassadors from throughout the world that come. We've had as many as forty countries
represented in a couple of our symposiums, and we're always trying to bring those

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folks together because you do learn somuch just from talking with them. Absolutely,
that sounds fascinating. Remember you remindedme now Mexico was tough. I've
been having a hard time trying toget police officers from over there to to
speak with. Too's been It's alittle bit of a challenge over there,
but fascinating stuff and guts speak toofficers from around the world. He learn
differences and what they see. Wow, interesting, I can't wait. Let

(20:48):
me ask you this. Do youhave any anybody from FBI, c A.
Do they come as well? TheFeds come down and check out our
help out. Yeah, we doso. The FBI obviously is a big
partner of ours, very fortunate tohave them be as involved as they are.
They typically send anywhere from you know, fifty to seventy or so that

(21:10):
come to the symposiums. They alsoattend our basic and advanced classes and they're
also instructors in those as well.But we also have many other agencies we
have This year we have a speakerfrom Army Investigations, so we have the
military investigations groups as well that comein obviously. You know I have DADJ

(21:37):
as well, so we've got apretty good mix of folks that come in
and are able to participate within thattraining. That's awesome. You guys have
a lot cover every territory, folks. It's really really a cool program.
I'm telling you. Let me askyou this. I want to ask you,
but I forget what it was.So you mentioned the FBI. They
go down there. I guess otherage dicies as well. They either participate

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or they listen in on the presentations, which is fascinating too. Let me
ask you this, do you haveany courses. I know we're running out
of time too, but any coursessuch as covering homicides individually, covering homicides,
gang related mass shootings, terrorists.Well, first of me ask you
this way, do those require differenthomicide skills? I think they do,

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but I think there are also skillsthat most agencies do possess. So they
are topics that are touched on notonly in the basic but also the advanced.
We don't have courses specifically designed forthose areas. But last year we
actually had a prosecutor, a coupleof prosecutors come down and talk about prosecuting

(22:55):
gang homicides in general, and theyare a different type of prosecution when you
really have to kind of line outexactly why this homicide was conducted in furtherance
of this criminal enterprise. So that'simportant for the investigators to know as they
build their case, but not somethingspecific. We are looking at trying to

(23:21):
develop some additional courses. Probably we'regoing to start with more of your cold
case and your no body homicide typecourses on how to prosecute those. That
focuses pretty heavily on kind of thecold case type of investigations, So we're
going to look at that. That'salready a component of the advanced course,

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but it's we could build an advancedcourse that lasts for four weeks if we
wanted to write, and we basicallyhave forty hours to try to get that
in. So we also supplement thatwith our simple So there are our symposiums
kind of have sometimes a team uhand and we build some courses around a

(24:08):
central idea so that that year theyget a number of courses related to say,
maybe gang homicides or something to thateffect. Right, I'm gonna switch
it back over to Crystal. Hereis we've got a few months left,
Crystal give us. Can you giveus some insight in regards the symposium what
people can expect when they get there. We've talked about registration already, kind

(24:29):
of going to the website. Butis it three days? Is it four
days? Does it go from eightin the morning to nine o'clock at night?
And what's going on here? That'sgoing to be a paw question agenda.
Okay, I can switch the Ican switch the edit that part out.
Paul. Let me here, Paul, let me ask you this.

(24:51):
So what can people expect when theygo to the symposium? What are they
going to see as there going tobe parties or what's happening from eight is
at eight am to eight pm?And they're gonna have a besides homicite?
What's going on here? So symposiumis five days long. We run sessions
from eight am to five pm.Obviously there's break in there for lunch.

(25:12):
Like I said, we do havea management breakout that is more designed for
supervisors and managers of homicide units orother investigative units as well, so they
get kind of their own breakout.On Tuesday Wednesday, we have a cold
case breakout so all of the presentationsand information are really focused on cold case

(25:37):
those happen at the same time.We still have general session as well,
so we do have some social eventsthat people can choose to participate in or
not. Obviously, after general session, we do have also a comedy night
on Thursday nights that they can chooseto participate in as well. And John

(26:02):
Morgan is our He's been our comedianfor the last three years. We're very
fortunate that he comes in and putson a tremendous show regardless of where we're
at. So it's a good weekfor not only learning, but it's also
a good week for networking. Youknow. One of the most important things,
like Crystal mentioned, is just thefact of getting to know other investigators

(26:27):
and really having that resource of Hey, I met a guy in Atlanta,
you know that works for Atlanta orworks outside of Nashville, and I've got
a case that is leading me there. Who am I going to call?
You jump on the web page,you dial up Nashville, you dial up
wherever this person is, and it'svery likely we've got a member that either

(26:52):
A is close or B can absolutelyput you in touch with the right people.
And that's really a game changer,isn't it. I mean that I've
seen that a lot as I speakto officers in different law enforcement agencies from
the federal side as well. Thatwasn't as prevalent maybe thirty forty years ago.
But I know I have a CIAoperative coming on I think a week

(27:12):
or two. That's what he's goingto be talking about, is how the
CIA, how important it is fornot just to see I have a federal
law enforcement and local law enforcement tocommunicate. Absolutely. I think communication is
probably one of the biggest things weoffer, is just that ability. Obviously,
we're international and we cover the UnitedStates very well. Every state,

(27:33):
well nearly every state has their ownstate association also, so I am a
member of not only the California Associationbut also the international and that affords me
the best of both worlds with communication. Obviously, many of my cases are
California centric or were California. Youknow, my cases were here. But

(27:57):
now if we do have something thatcrosses over, I can always get in
touch with other folks. It's amazingstuff. I mean I hear it just
listening to their communication, how theylearn new things from each other, and
an NYPD homicide detective goes to somebodyfrom Georgia or something in the rural areas.

(28:17):
It may not be his experience andhow they share their knowledge or vice
versa. Maybe, Yeah, thechallenges are different no matter where you're at.
You know, I'm not really policed, and we have a very urban
area here, but nothing like NewYork. And so working a case in

(28:38):
New York, while the fundamentals arealways the same, is going to be
different than how we do cases here. Fascinating stuff. So you guys offer
that indirectly the friendships and the bondsthere at the symposium and folks, you
know what, communication is not justgood for relationships or marriage, looks like
even for homicide detectives out there.You go, folks are going to wrap

(29:00):
it up here as we're communicating withIHIA International Homicide Investigators Association. You definitely
want to catch their website. Youcan see their Instagram handle and their website
down below that. Make sure youmake sure you see that. Oh,
we're getting ready to wrap up.And you know what, we interviewed hundreds
of officers now over the course ofthe year, and an inside the badge.
One of our goals as well asthe human eyes the Badge. So

(29:25):
I'm gonna put you into that categoryas well. We'll put both of you
to that category tonight. So thequestions I have right now, what's your
favorite movie? Paul favorite movie?Put me on the spot on that one.
You're not gonna get away either,so I think Endgame. You know,
obviously, my kids enjoy those thosemovies just as much as I do,

(29:48):
and it's nice to just go spendspend some time with them. Any
TV shows that motivates you either tobecome a police officer, anything you've want,
no, I mean, I Iknow that obviously. Before I ended
up being lucky enough to become ahomicide detective, I watched a lot of
the same shows everybody else does,all the forensic files and you know,

(30:11):
the CSI shows. I've always beenvery interested in that, so I watch
a lot of those. You know, you can't get away from watching The
Wire or Dexter thanks of that nature. Were you an Adam twelve fan?
By which Ransfer? I did watchAdam twelve. It was a little bit
before my time, so I hadto watch all the reruns, but I
enjoyed those. Yeah, that wasa fascinating. Boy, the world was

(30:33):
different back then. Was absolutely crystalfavorite movie. You're totally gonna laugh and
people probably don't even know what thisis, but true. Beverly Hills was
Shelley Long. Gosh, it's soold, but it was such a classic.
That and Misdoubtfire are two of myfads, and everyone that knows me
knows they're my face. I justI'm actually kind of a very serious person,

(30:56):
and both of those movies are reallysilly and funny, and I just
love that lightheartedness of both of them, and even now later in life and
after, you know, working inlaw enforcement for ten years, anything that's
light. I think that life andeverything around us can be very heavy,
and it kind of bothers me tosit down in front of a television and

(31:18):
get more of that. So Iusually stray away straight away from that.
Although I did watch Dexter I thoughtit was super interesting or but I try
to stay away from the heavy stuffon TV because I feel like there's so
much of it around us, whichis you know, I was nodding when
Paul was talking about the comedy nightat the Symposium. It's so important just
to laugh because that field is soheavy, but I just I really like

(31:45):
being you know, uplifting, andthat's kind of what I gravitate towards on
television and movies and make an excellentpoint because it is a very tough topic
to be exposed to it as acareer, you do need the lighter side.
And I know, compuwer is different. Cop humor is different. It's
very different. It's very different.And working on the you know, the

(32:05):
communications and the pr the p IOside. That's one of the first things
I had to say when I gotto a scene because it is so common
to get on scene and find detectiveslaughing. It is totally a coping mechanism,
and that's really tough. When themedia shows up and everyone's zooming in
their cameras, you have to remindthem, you know, just don't don't

(32:29):
try to talk about what you weredoing before you got here, who was
winning the game, because that's reallywhat helps detectives when you're walking into,
you know, to an investigation that'sso heavy, is to keep it light
and you have to laugh and that'swhat keeps the morale up. But that
is one of the coping mechanisms Ithink for homicide detectives, and for some
people that might sound very cool andmorbid that that something would be funny,

(32:52):
and it's it's not the investigation atall. It's the fact that you have
to find some lightheartedness to to reallywhat you what you're what you're investigating,
or you know where you are thatthere's you know, deceased, a couple
of diseased people inside of a homethat's very heavy, and it's three o'clock
in the morning and you just leftyour kids tucked in bed. Uh,

(33:15):
that's that's really really heavy, andso you find a lot of times detectives
find that as a coping mechanism.Would you agree, Paul, Yeah,
I would absolutely agree. And youknow, one of the things that I
always did to try to make itnot seem such a big deal for my
kids is if I had a callout, that meant that I would at

(33:37):
least stop for donuts on the wayhome to give them in the morning.
So there was such a heavy kindof thing that they were thinking about and
at least helped a little bit.I think great, not only for the
I think the detectives, it's it'sreally your entire family. You know,
your spouse or your kids. Everyoneknows you're going in a harm's way.

(33:58):
A lot of times these homicides occurin terrible neighborhoods, and you're going there
in the middle of the night andleaving your family safe at home. I
really think it affects the entire family. We make a great point, because
it does right when they have tocome back. Sometimes I've heard from a
lot of officers you can't share someof the stories of what you've seen.

(34:20):
The homicide detectives are used to it, they can process it, they've learned
to process it. But you comehome to a significant other, if your
wife or somebody else, and theymight not be able to if they're not
in your line of work right,they might not be able to or they
might not want to hear all thegruesome details. So you have to have
a really great partnership with your fellowofficers or your fellow detectives, so that

(34:43):
that can be your support system,because that's really maybe the only person you
can discuss that with. That's anexcellent point. I'm glad we went to
that. Paul, you're going tosay something, Yeah, I totally agree.
It's not necessarily dinner time conversation.Now it's not for sure. You
know, it's interesting too. Christmade another good point for the media out

(35:06):
there. You know, you cango to the mortuaries and you're gonna find
similar behavior there. If you goto the coroners, you'll find similar behavior
there. There's a lot of professionsthat deal with this, the cleaners that
come after the crime scenes. Sothis is not just a police officer thing
like as Christa mentioned, it isa coping mechanism. And you try that

(35:28):
yourself. Let's see how you handleit for a couple of times and get
back to us, folks again,I HIA dot Org. Lieutenant Paul Beli,
and Crystal Juniez, thank you somuch for being here. Thank you
for having us. I really appreciateit. Thank you very much for both
of you. Thank you, Chrystal, We truly appreciate it. Thank you

(35:50):
so much. It was a greatchat. Thank you everyone for joining us.
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(36:13):
Hia. Hopefully we'll see you inAustin.