WE CHAT WITH THE INTERNATIONAL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATORS ASSOCIATION

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to True Detective Stories podcast, a podcast where homicide
detectives share their most intense cases. Let's begin.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome everyone, I'm doctor Carlos, professor and forensic psychology side
and one of the things I will hope to get
done today is to try to clarify some of the
myths that we have out there. Learn about this great
association we're going to be talking about called International Homicide
Investigators Association IHIA. Right down below, you'll see their Instagram handle.
You definitely want to catch it there. But this is

(00:36):
an organization that I hope you will clear a lot
of those miss out and find out what they do.
To help me out with that is going to be
the head of communications and public relations of the IHIA,
Crystal Unions and the president, Lieutenant Paul Bli. He's going
to help us out today as well to find out
what's going on in the world of homicide. So, without
further ado, let's welcome both to the show. Welcome Paul

(00:57):
and Crystal. How are you. I'm good, Thank you great,
Thanks for having us, Oh, thank you for being here again.
This is one of those I would just say it's
a popular topic among the general population. They can get
their daily dose of homicides from Criminal Minds and Law
and Order and all those other shows out there. But
now we're going to talk about the real stuff, see

(01:19):
how it is. But before we get to all that,
what is IHI A crystal.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Well, it was founded during the nineteen eighty eight symposium
by the FBI and since then, you know, just really
focused on bringing training to those that are that are members.

Speaker 4 (01:37):
And the membership is it varies.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
It includes you know, highly respected death and homicide investigators,
criminal behaviorists, forensic scientists, crime scene technicians, prosecutors, the list
goes on and on.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
But it brings that group together to discuss, you.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Know, trends or to learn new things, but really creates
that partnership and that communication that is so necessary with
side investigations. And they have a we have a symposium
yearly and advanced training throughout the United States and actually
we have members in each US state and nations on
six continents, so a large membership and its continuing to

(02:17):
grow very quickly.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
But a great thing to be a part of, especially
if you're in that.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Field fascinating stuff. Is Houn's a great organization. Let me
ask you this, Crystal, how long has it been around?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
What was founded in nineteen eighty eight and since then
continuing to.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Grow thirty years.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Absolutely thirty years, and you know, an organization that nurtures
that interagency cooperation and professional interactions, increased communication.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
And that is why it's it's.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Growing so quickly because it's something that if you're in
that field of you know, homicide investigators, it's something you
absolutely want to be a part of because that communication,
as I said, is not only happening amongst investigators. The
membership is large and the members vary, so that's something
that you absolutetely benefit for if you're in that field.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
That kind of gets me thinking now when I head
over to Paul for AMNED Paul, so she was talking
about advanced trainings. What are some of the most popular
trainings IHI does well.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Currently, we have an Advanced home site course, which is
a week long course that was recently developed in partnership
with the FBI, and that course has been very very
well received. We've got some of those courses are filling
up with one hundred and twenty two, one hundred and
forty investigators from the regions in which we're holding them

(03:46):
in addition to that, we have a basic class that
we developed well in conjunction with the DOJ. I think
it was back about two thousand and four, and that
was really to try to help every agency across the
United States really have a baseline of where to begin
their homicide investigations. So it's a pretty basic death investigations

(04:10):
class and it covers a wide range of topics within
a week. The Advanced class really steps that game up,
and we're looking at you know, obviously, as trends move
in different directions or technology changes, we've updated the basic
class as well to kind of bring it much more
up to speed and being contemporary with what's going on now.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Excellent, let me ask you this brought up about four
thousand questions in my head now, but I'll try and
narrow them down on a couple here in regards to homicide.
How things changed in the last twenty or thirty years
or have they changed at all?

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, you know, obviously we have technology considerations, right. I
think everybody watches a TV. They're well aware of cell phones,
they're well aware of you know, some of that technology.
There was a case that was solved by a fit
bit in San Jose. They've had Alexa cases, you know,

(05:08):
where it was recording some information. So obviously the technology
component is one of those that evolves tremendously. But the
reality is homicide investigations are really about people. If you
can talk to one hundred people on most investigations, you're
very likely going to solve that. And so we really

(05:28):
in our yearly symposium, we obviously focus on new and
emerging trends, but every year, year after year, we go
back to those basics. Interviewing an interrogation right again, it's
just talking to people. I think most of your homicide
detectives they're kind of people. They're people people, and they

(05:50):
do want to get out there and talk to people.
They don't want to necessarily sit in the office and
pour through thousands in thousands of pages of information in data,
but that is also something they have to do. So
it's really kind of trying to strike that balance. So
I don't know that it's changed a tremendous amount from

(06:11):
you know, how it's been back in you know for
thirty or forty years, but there is a lot of
additional workload and component that really drives a lot of
those investigations.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Kind of reminds me of that show. I think we've
spoke about a little bit before the Wire, and it
kind of reminds me of that when they said, oh,
he's real police. So I guess it's referring to an
old school sounds like that kind of applies to homicide
as well. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Absolutely, a great show. I think I've seen that series
a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
That's really amazing. Let me ask you this, some of
the shows that we see today, you know, we call
the CSI effect. Some of those things put challenges for
a lot of officers because it gives the public, how
would you say, it misleads them and expecting you guys
to solve homicide within less than forty five minutes, you
should be able to get the DNA in a couple

(07:00):
of hours and all this other stuff. Is that something
also that you work in the trainings or is this
something that challenges homicide detectives?

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, I think it is challenging obviously. I think that
challenge really becomes more evident during a trial period where
you're trying to educate you know, jurors who, thank god,
they don't have to work in this in that industry, right,
But they do have some of the popular media or

(07:30):
the popular television shows that are somewhat misleading, right, you know,
with the amount of time or even how the evidence
can be processed and what you're really going to get
from them. You know, evidence only has meaning and context,
and sometimes they don't quite grasp that initially. But that

(07:51):
challenge really comes in, and that's where we have a
lot of prosecutors that come to our training as well,
because that's really their challenge is to educate the rural
about all things homicide and why we got to the
conclusion that we got to about who the perpetrator was.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's hard when those jurors and the public and those
you know, the victim's family is has kind of like
a false this expectation that the things happen as quickly
as they do and that that technology exists in all agencies.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
You know, throughout the United States.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
So it's discouraging for investigators to have that added stress
constantly that someone feels like if you're not solving the
case immediately, that you're not doing work, and that can
be you know, really bring them arale down amongst investigators
because they have that added pressure and sometimes a victim's family,
especially now with the existence of social media, is very

(08:50):
vocal about when a case isn't solved that possibly it's
because they're not doing the work, and that is not
the case at all. Sometimes either the techology doesn't exist
for that agency, or it just looks a lot simpler
on television when you're trying to fit it into a
thirtyion or sixty minute show. That's not how it works,
and things take time, so that added stress. And then

(09:11):
when that word gets gets out through social media, you know,
the buzz that certainly doesn't doesn't help the case.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I absolutely agree. Actually, that brings me another question for you, Crystal,
in regards to the communications there. Do you guys offer
lectures at all, maybe at one or two hour lecture
helping homicide attextas on handling situations like that the prosecutors
and covering those topics and maybe the hot topics that
you see out there, like you know, instant DNA and

(09:41):
all this other stuff that's going on. You have anything
like that that they offer.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Well, I think.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
They're at the symposiums and at the trainings. A lot
of times we have, you know, specific courses on those
types of topics. But also we have speakers to speak
the typically on those topics and offer further insight into those.
But I think that going back to social media sometimes

(10:08):
for the investigators as well, is you know, people spreading information,
whether it be true or whether it be false information,
but damaging the case and possibly exposing maybe their leads,
because it's so important for people to jump on the
soapbox and really feel like they've got to express this

(10:30):
when really they are hurting the cases.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Absolutely good point, absolutely, And Paul, that guess brings me
over to you now in regards to homicide detectives. That
brings me over to another question for you, Paul, in
regards to social media. You've been an officer I forgot
how many years, twenty.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Years, almost twenty one, twenty one years, so.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
You've seen a lot of changes and social media has
been a new game, hasn't it? For police?

Speaker 1 (10:58):
It has? You know. Obviously I was around during the
days of my Space, and obviously we've progressed significantly with
all the various platforms of social media, and those can
be very very important to the cases. I think Crystal
brings up a couple of good points too. It can

(11:21):
be damaging and I do think that when she talked
about the frustration of the family related to the CSI effect,
that is one hundred percent something that the detectives deal with.
And you know, I had I was fortunate to be
involved in a cold case that spanned about forty some
odd years. And when we look at the technology that

(11:45):
we currently have and we look at what the detectives
in the late seventies collected, they collected a lot of
you know, just in cold cases in general, and a
lot of the cold cases I've worked on, they collect
things that they didn't even know how they were going
to test. And you got to really look at that now,
because now we're looking at being able to solve cases

(12:08):
with genealogy, something that didn't exist twenty four months ago
and is very very quickly evolving. We've actually have several
speakers at our symposium this year specifically related to that
because it is such a hot emerging trend within homicide investigations,

(12:29):
and we also very much touch on social media investigations.
We actually have a dark web presentation this year as well,
which while I don't think that most homicide detectives end
up having to delve into that realm, necessarily. I could
certainly see that becoming a trend.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's an excellent point. Excellent point. Wasn't it the serial
killer up in California kut on that genealogy thing?

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, that was here in Sacramento, is known as the
East Dairy rapist. But he's a golden.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
That's right, amazing stuff. Thank god they caught him. Let
me ask you this, what are some of the things
you hear the most? The organization's been around for what
is it, my math folks, thirty years? What are some
of the things you've heard over and over some of
the themes that homicide detectives want to learn about, want
to get more training on.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Well, I think it follows the trends that everybody is
looking at, you know, like I said, genealogy, we actually
have a class specific to that. And then we also
have some prosecutors that are going to be speaking to
prosecuting cases utilizing that type of information and the best
practices for that. And I think there's going to be

(13:45):
a lot of detectives that are gonna be very interested
in that, certainly cold case detectives, and they also, like
I said, still want the interview and interrogation information utilizing
a variety of different types of technology, whether that's you know,
their shot spotter that's out there that essentially detects when

(14:07):
gunfire is happening within a community and helps pinpoint that. So,
you know, what can that do for them? What can
maybe license plate reader technology or facial recognition technology do
for them in their investigations.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
You know, you make some great points, and I know
I interviewed a district attorney a couple of weeks ago.
I think it was a prosecutor from Texas, and he
was telling me exactly the same thing. It's so important
for especially homicide detectives to understand how to get the evidence,
what to do with the evidence. And he does training
courses I think just for the locals now they're in Texas.

(14:46):
But that's an awesome offering that you guys have because
I think it's really important. We see that a lot.
You know, I'm a backseat kind of law enforcement guy.
I never was in law enforcement. When you see it
on TV shows, especially the Wire, I guess I'll keep
that the most accurate you can see that process and
how important it really is to develop the evidence.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, absolutely, you know, working with the prosecutors and developing
a case really, I think gives a lot of different
views and insight into it. And I also think that
that really helps keep everybody on the right track as well.
You know, obviously some of these investigations go for years

(15:25):
and they don't get solved immediately, and it's not uncommon
to have somebody that looks like a great suspect and
travel down that path, but then getting other input from
not only prosecutors, but other detectives to look at the
same thing you're looking at, and they may see something
that you know, you're focused on something and they're like, hey,

(15:47):
well what about this, And you realize, okay, well that's
a pretty significant gap in how this person is the
suspect and where are we going to go from there?

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Excellent stuff, excellent stuff, and I think just we're bring
Crystal back. Get here for a second. Paul was mentioning
you have a symposium coming up.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
We do.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
We have a symposium coming up in Austin, Texas, and
that'll be in August, and every years it's in a
different city and that's where we'll be this August and
highly anticipated and all new speakers and as Paul mentioned,
some of the older topics that they're consistently interested in,
but always something new and fresh to offer every year.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Great, and that's all. We can get more information on
that at the website.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
You can get more information right on our website.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Also if you follow us on social media, we're constantly
posting updates and reminders. But kind of walk yourself through.
It's a super simple website and you can always give
us a call and we'll walk you through the registration
process as well.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
Orientswer any questions.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Right down here. For UKs, you can see i HIA
dot org to get that information at symposium that is
it for Leo's only or.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
We have not only do we have law enforcement officers,
but like I said, prosecutors, we have corners that come.
So it's really open to death investigation professionals.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Well hope hosts.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Certainly we could have you there. There are some law
enforcement sensitive presentations, but for the most part, anybody that
is really involved in that that field we have. There's
like I said, corners, there's pathologists that come. We have

(17:38):
a number of academics as well, obviously forensic psychologists. We've
had forensic psychologists speak for us on numerous occasions, and
also forensic scientists as well.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
I can always leave when the sensitive information comes and
grab a buffin and come right back in after no problem.
Hopefully we can see some people there at the symposium
ATIA dot org and find more information there. But Paul,
let me ask you this. You know, I've interviewed a
lot of officers lately. Actually I have an interviewed kind
but I've spoken with a lot of officers from around
the world and speaking with officers from Brazil to Ireland,

(18:16):
to England to Germany, and it's been fascinating a great time.
My wife is like, what are you doing Anyway, It's
been a lot of fun talking to them because it's
so different sometimes and yet sometimes so similar. And you
guys cover that area, tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, you know, I would agree with you one hundred percent.
It is so interesting to look at what the similarity
is and yet the differences are. And this year we
actually had you mentioned Germany. We have a speaker coming
from Germany that investigated a nurse in Germany that it
looks like he killed about one hundred and four patients intentionally,

(18:55):
So that's going to be very fascinating. He's actually going
to be speaking. We also do management seminar during our symposium,
and he is actually going to be speaking specifically to
the similarities and differences between American law enforcement and German
homicide investigations or investigations in general. We're very proud of

(19:16):
the fact that we do have a wide contingent of
folks from throughout the world. Every year, we have members
from Australia, the Netherlands, obviously our neighbors to the north
in Canada. Get We don't have as many out of Mexico,
which we're really trying to cultivate getting those law enforcement

(19:41):
officers up here to participate. We do have a number
of new members actually out of Brazil, so it's been
kind of fun corresponding with them, getting to know them online.
And then of course we actually have a kind of
a member at large that's in the United Kingdom and
he comes over every year, brings a Bobby helmet for

(20:05):
our raffle that we do for a charity, and is
a tremendous individual to speak with. But he's you know,
we have a lot of great ambassadors from throughout the
world that come. We've had as many as forty countries
represented in a couple of our symposiums, and we're always
trying to bring those folks together because you do learn

(20:27):
so much just from talking with them.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Absolutely, that sounds fascinating. Remember you reminded me now Mexico
was tough. I've been having a hard time trying to
get police officers from over there to speak with. Too's
been It's a little bit of a challenge over there,
but fascinating stuff and guts speak to officers from around
the world. He learn differences and what they see. Wow, interesting,
I can't wait. Let me ask you this. Do you
have any anybody from FBI, c A. Do they come

(20:52):
as well? The Feds come down and check out our
help out.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, we do so. The FBI obviously is a big
partner of ours, very fortunate to have them be as
involved as they are. They typically send anywhere from you know,
fifty to seventy or so that come to the symposiums.
They also attend our basic and advanced classes and they're

(21:16):
also instructors in those as well. But we also have
many other agencies we have This year we have a
speaker from Army Investigations, so we have the military investigations
groups as well that come in obviously. You know I
have DADJ as well, so we've got a pretty good

(21:39):
mix of folks that come in and are able to
participate within that training.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
That's awesome. You guys have a lot cover every territory, folks.
It's really really a cool program. I'm telling you. Let
me ask you this. I want to ask you, but
I forget what it was. So you mentioned the FBI.
They go down there, and I guess other age dicies
as well. They either participate or they listen in on
the presentations, which is fascinating too. Let me ask you this,

(22:07):
do you have any courses. I know we're running out
of time too, but any courses such as covering homicides individually,
covering homicides, gang related mass shootings, terrorists. Well, first of
me ask you this way, do those require different homicide skills?

Speaker 1 (22:29):
I think they do, but I think there are also
skills that most agencies do possess. So they are topics
that are touched on not only in the basic but
also the advanced. We don't have courses specifically designed for
those areas. But last year we actually had a prosecutor,

(22:52):
a couple of prosecutors come down and talk about prosecuting
gang homicides in general, and they are a different type
of prosecution when you really have to kind of line
out exactly why this homicide was conducted in furtherance of
this criminal enterprise. So that's important for the investigators to

(23:14):
know as they build their case, but not something specific.
We are looking at trying to develop some additional courses.
Probably we're going to start with more of your cold
case and your no body homicide type courses on how

(23:35):
to prosecute those. That focuses pretty heavily on kind of
the cold case type of investigations, So we're going to
look at that. That's already a component of the advanced course,
but it's we could build an advanced course that lasts
for four weeks if we wanted to write, and we
basically have forty hours to try to get that in.

(23:57):
So we also supplement that with our simple So there
are our symposiums kind of have sometimes a team uh
and and we build some courses around a central idea
so that that year they get a number of courses
related to say, maybe gang homicides or something to that effect.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Right, I'm gonna switch it back over to Crystal here
is we've got a few months left, Crystal give us.
Can you give us some insight in regards the symposium
what people can expect when they get there. We've talked
about registration already, kind of going to the website. But
is it three days? Is it four days? Does it
go from eight in the morning to nine o'clock at night?

(24:37):
And what's going on here?

Speaker 4 (24:39):
That's going to be a paw question agenda.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Okay, I can switch the I can switch the edit
that part out. Paul. Let me here, Paul, let me
ask you this. So what can people expect when they
go to the symposium? What are they going to see
as there going to be parties or what's happening from
eight is at eight am to eight pm? And they're
gonna have a besides homicite? What's going on here?

Speaker 1 (25:02):
So symposium is five days long. We run sessions from
eight am to five pm. Obviously there's break in there
for lunch. Like I said, we do have a management
breakout that is more designed for supervisors and managers of
homicide units or other investigative units as well, so they

(25:26):
get kind of their own breakout. On Tuesday, Wednesday, we
have a cold case breakout, so all of the presentations
and information are really focused on cold case Those happen
at the same time. We still have general session as well,
so we do have some social events that people can

(25:46):
choose to participate in or not. Obviously, after general session,
we do have also a comedy night on Thursday nights
that they can choose to participate in as well. And
John Morgan is our He's been our comedian for the
last three years. We're very fortunate that he comes in

(26:10):
and puts on a tremendous show regardless of where we're at.
So it's a good week for not only learning, but
it's also a good week for networking. You know. One
of the most important things, like Crystal mentioned, is just
the fact of getting to know other investigators and really
having that resource of Hey, I met a guy in Atlanta,

(26:35):
you know that works for Atlanta or works outside of Nashville,
and I've got a case that is leading me there.
Who am I going to call? You jump on the
web page, you dial up Nashville, you dial up wherever
this person is, and it's very likely we've got a
member that either A is close or B can absolutely
put you in touch with the right people.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
And that's really a game changer, isn't it. I mean
that I've seen that a lot as I speak to
officers in different law enforcement agencies from the federal side
as well. That wasn't as prevalent maybe thirty forty years ago.
But I know I have a CIA operative coming on
I think a week or two. That's what he's going
to be talking about, is how the CIA, how important

(27:17):
it is for not just to see I have a
federal law enforcement and local law enforcement to communicate.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Absolutely. I think communication is probably one of the biggest
things we offer, is just that ability. Obviously, we're international
and we cover the United States very well. Every state,
well nearly every state has their own state association also,
so I am a member of not only the California

(27:43):
Association but also the international and that affords me the
best of both worlds with communication. Obviously, many of my
cases are California centric or were California.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
You know, my.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Cases were here. But now if we do have something
that crosses over, I can always get in touch with
other folks.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
It's amazing stuff. I mean, I hear it just listening
to their communication, how they learn new things from each other.
And an NYPD homicide detective goes to somebody from Georgia
or something in the rural areas, it may not be
his experience and how they share their knowledge or vice versa.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Maybe, Yeah, the challenges are different no matter where you're at.
You know, I'm not really policed, and we have a
very urban area here, but nothing like New York. And
so working a case in New York, while the fundamentals
are always the same, is going to be different than

(28:44):
how we do cases here.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Fascinating stuff. So you guys offer that indirectly, the friendships
and the bonds there at the symposium and folks, you
know what, communication is not just good for relationships or marriage,
looks like even for homicide detectives out there. You go,
folks are going to wrap it up here as we're
communicating with IHIA International Homicide Investigators Association. You definitely want

(29:07):
to catch their website. You can see their Instagram handle
and their website down below that. Make sure you make
sure you see that. Oh, we're getting ready to wrap up.
And you know what, we interviewed hundreds of officers now
over the course of the year, and an inside the
Badge one of our goals as well as the human
eyes the badge, So I'm gonna put you into that

(29:27):
category as well. We'll put both of you to that
category tonight. So the questions I have right now, what's
your favorite movie?

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Paul favorite movie? Put me on the spot on that one.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
You're not gonna get away either, so.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
I think Endgame. You know, obviously, my kids enjoy those
those movies just as much as I do, and it's
nice to just go spend spend some time with them.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Any TV shows that motivates you either to become a
police officer, anything you've want, no, I.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Mean, I I know that obviously. Before I ended up
being lucky enough to become a homicide detective, I watched
a lot of the same shows everybody else does. All
the forensic files and you know, the CSI shows. I've
always been very interested in that, so I watch a
lot of those. You know, you can't get away from

(30:19):
watching The Wire or Dexter thanks of that nature.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Were you an Adam twelve fan? By which Ransfer?

Speaker 1 (30:25):
I did watch Adam twelve. It was a little bit
before my time, so I had to watch all the reruns,
but I enjoyed those.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, that was a fascinating boy. The world was different
back then. Was absolutely crystal favorite movie.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
You're totally gonna laugh and people probably don't even know
what this is, but.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
True.

Speaker 4 (30:43):
Beverly Hills was Shelley Long. Gosh, it's so old, but
it was such a classic.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
That and Misdoubtfire are two of my fads, and everyone
that knows me knows they're my face. I just I'm
actually kind of a very serious person, and both of
those movies are really silly and funny, and I just
love that lightheartedness of both of them, and even now
later in life and after, you know, working in law

(31:08):
enforcement for ten years, anything that's light.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
I think that life and everything around us can be
very heavy.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
And it kind of bothers me to sit down in
front of a television and get more of that.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
So I usually stray away straight away from that.

Speaker 5 (31:23):
Although I did watch Dexter I thought it was super
interesting or but I try to stay away from the
heavy stuff on TV because I feel like there's so
much of it around us, which is you know, I
was nodding when Paul was talking about the comedy night
at the Symposium.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
It's so important just to laugh because that field is
so heavy, but I just I really like being you know, uplifting,
and that's kind of what I gravitate towards on television
and movies and.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Make an excellent point because it is a very tough
topic to be exposed to it as a career, you
do need the lighter side. And I know, compuwer is different.
Cop humor is different.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
It's very different.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
It's very different.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
And working on the you know, the communications and the
pr the p IO side.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
That's one of the first things I had to say
when I got to a.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
Scene because it is so common to get on scene
and find detectives laughing.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
It is totally a coping mechanism, and that's really tough.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
When the media shows up and everyone's zooming in their cameras,
you have to remind them, you know, just don't don't
try to talk about what you were doing before you
got here, who was winning the game, because that's really
what helps detectives when you're walking into, you know, to
an investigation that's.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
So heavy, is to keep it light and you have
to laugh and that's what keeps the morale up.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
But that is one of the coping mechanisms I think
for homicide detectives, and for some people that might sound
very cool and morbid that that something would be funny,
and it's it's not the investigation at all. It's the
fact that you have to find some lightheartedness to to
really what you what you're what you're investigating, or you

(33:04):
know where you are that there's you know, deceased, a
couple of diseased people inside of a home that's very heavy,
and it's three o'clock in the morning, and you just
left your kids tucked in bed.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
Uh, that's that's.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Really really heavy, and so you find a lot of
times detectives find that as a coping mechanism.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Would you agree, Paul, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
I would absolutely agree. And you know, one of the
things that I always did to try to make it
not seem such a big deal for my kids is
if I had a call out, that meant that I
would at least stop for donuts on the way home
to give them in the morning. So there was such
a heavy kind of thing that they were thinking about

(33:45):
and at least helped a little bit.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
I think great, not only for.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
The I think the detectives, it's it's really your entire family,
you know, your spouse or your kids.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
Everyone knows you're going in a harm's way.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
A lot of times these homicides occur in terrible neighborhoods,
and you're going there in the middle of the night
and leaving your family safe at home.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
I really think it affects the entire family.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
We make a great point, because it does right when
they have to come back. Sometimes I've heard from a
lot of officers you can't share some of the stories
of what you've seen. The homicide detectives are used to it,
they can process it, they've learned to process it. But
you come home to a significant other, if your wife
or somebody else, and they might not be able to
if they're not in your line of work.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Right, they might not be able to or they might
not want to hear all the gruesome details. So you
have to have a really great partnership with your fellow
officers or your fellow detectives, so that that can be
your support system, because that's really maybe the only person
you can discuss that with.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
That's an excellent point. I'm glad we went to that. Paul.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
You're going to say something, Yeah, I totally agree. It's
not necessarily dinner time conversation.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Now it's not for sure. You know, it's interesting too.
Christ made another good point for the media out there.
You know, you can go to the mortuaries and you're
gonna find similar behavior there. If you go to the coroners,
you'll find similar behavior there. There's a lot of professions
that deal with this, the cleaners that come after the

(35:19):
crime scenes. So this is not just a police officer thing.
Like as Christa mentioned, it is a coping mechanism, and
you try that yourself. Let's see how you handle it
for a couple of times and get back to us
folks again, I HIA dot Org. Lieutenant Paul Beli, and
Crystal Juniez, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Thank you for having us. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Thank you very much for both of you. Thank you, Chrystal.
We truly appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
Thank you so much. It was a great chat.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Thank you everyone for joining us. Remember this is inside
the Bage. You can follow us on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn,
and YouTube. But when you go to YouTube, make sure
you hit the subscribe button, hit that little bell so
you can notified of all these interviews and all those
other videos. Remember, don't forget to win, it's not your day.
Videos that come out every day so you don't want
to miss out and see what's happening with the people
out there. Fun stuff, But thank you all for joining us.
Catch down here I hia. Hopefully we'll see you in Austin.