August 8, 2025 • 57 mins
In this episode, Juette sits down with Eddie Worth, President of the Safe Surfin' Foundation and talks about protecting children from online predators and cybercrimes. Eddie shares his journey from law enforcement to internet safety advocacy, discusses the emotional toll on investigators, and highlights the foundation’s educational programs, including the peer-led Team Cyber SWAT initiative. The conversation covers legislative challenges, the importance of prevention, and the need for community and parental involvement. Despite obstacles in school adoption, the episode emphasizes the urgent necessity of proactive, sustained internet safety education to empower and safeguard children in the digital age.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Please have Eddie Worth with a Safe Surfing foundation. They're
doing some phenomenal work. I have a lot of different
people on our show that talk about law enforcement issues,
and it's really cool to have somebody that is working
hand in hand with law enforcement and instead of responding
to a tragedy, you're trying to prevent it. I really
(00:29):
appreciate you coming on talking about what safe Surfing is doing,
and just like I always just want to open up
by Tony, like, I really appreciate you being here and
like you talk a little bit about where you grew
up and how you ended up in safe surfing.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Sure, glad to and thanks for having me too.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
You know, safe surfing has been around since nineteen ninety eight. Okay,
so we're still trying to get word out on how
to properly educate our children and parents on internet safety.
Kind Of going back to my history, I went to
natural Bridge High School, graduated from natural Bridge High School.
The Rockets, right, Natural Bridge Rockets exactly. Yeah, but that
(01:10):
was back in sixty eight when I graduated, So I'm
kind of telling them why i'm gray hair now right. Well,
So after that, went to Phillips Business College over in Lynchburg.
I don't think they're still there, but went there and
while I was there, had the opportunity to go to
work with the FBI up in d C. So stayed
(01:32):
with the FBI for a while. I realized that really
I wasn't the city guy, and that's where I was
going to have to work. I was working right out
of downtown d C on Second and D Street, And
you know, I grew up in Glasgow and natural bridget
every little culture difference there. Yeah, Like we went from
(01:55):
zero stop lights to Washington, d C. So that didn't
last long. However. Yeah, I got quite an education though
not only on law enforcement and the identification side of
what the FBI does, but just general learning knowledge culture,
(02:17):
different cultures than what I've grown up in. But decided that,
you know, I need to get back back home and
was able to. Then I was hired by Eco Lab,
which is a fortune five hundred company, and I spent
my career there in sales. And from there that's what
(02:41):
I met with Sheriff Brown at a conference. The Moose
Association is a huge, huge supporter of Sheriff Brown and
the Foundation, and I was at a conference and Sheriff
Brown had a lady and his daughter and her daughter
and your daughter had been abducted by an online predator.
(03:03):
And they told their story and it just hit me that, man,
I need to do something here to help the just
to help this cause. So I started volunteering. And this
was back early two thousands, I guess, and I volunteered,
traveling across the country when I could get off work
and this kind of thing, going out and talking to
(03:26):
kids and parents about internet safety. Sheriff Brown was able
to get me in front of the folks at ikak
here in Bedford County internet crimes against children and they
helped me learn what all was going on and how
to talk to the kids, and became associated with the
National Center for Missing Exploited Children and picked up on
(03:49):
their programs and then this went out and started speaking
as a volunteer. This went on for I guess fifteen
years or so. And realized after after going out and
talking to these kids that they weren't really listening to
(04:11):
a older person come in and talk to them about
the Internet because they knew more than we did, right right,
So that's kind of how I got started in the
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
And so they grew up that these kids grew up
in it. They know how to navigate things.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You know back in nineteen ninety
eight that i CAC got started in nineteen ninety six
and Sheriff Brown, Bedford County Sheriff's Office was one of
the first ten IICACK task forces.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I think there's the only i CACK task force that
operated a BYuT a local jurisdics.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
They may be, they may be. Uh. There are two
IICAQ task forces in Virginia. The state Police as one
in northern Northern Virginia and Bedford County has the one
here U sixty. I believe there's sixty two of them
now across the country.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's really cool. Here's the problem.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
These guys. They're sitting behind the computers, guys and girls,
God bless them there they sit behind computers and talk
to these predators to see if they're going to cross
the line. And that is so hard on these folks
because they see and hear all these stories and it's
(05:28):
terrible what's going on.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So you talked about the story that you heard that
the child that had been abducted, and we thought we
talk a lot about what law enforcement goes through. Just
to just talk a little bit just on your knowledge
of like what these investigators have to go through. You know,
it sounds really clean, like, hey, we have this chat
(05:52):
and now like them up. But it's not that something.
It's not that's something at all. Really the mental part
that these investigators go through through a lot of the times,
and more likely than not, more more times than not,
they can only do this job for a short period
of time because it wears on them emotionally so much.
(06:16):
Because keep in mind, these investigators they have children at home,
right or they may have grandchildren, nieces and nephews, and
they can see all these things happening to their families,
and they're actually talking to these predators that are are
telling them some of the worst things in the world.
(06:36):
You can imagine that they're doing in some of the
vilest images. Oh, you can imagine. I think Sheriff Brown
had discussed an adult having sex with a baby an infant, Yeah,
an infant, yes, And I mean and that's not unusual,
that's not unusual at all. I think what's kind of
interesting is one of the things that we discussed with
(06:59):
We did a project with Liberty University and the students
that participated in that. They actually got on the dark web,
and we're able to find where you could actually order
a child, and it's it's a year and up. And
I don't think people realize like what the impact of
that is not only for the victim, but also from
(07:19):
a law enforcement standpoint, these kids never recover. We work,
you know, I'm still in law enforcement, and we work
these these sexual assaults and it's just a it really
is a reoccurring issue. Like if you if you're if
you abuse a child, that child is probably gonna end
up an abuser. And it just continues on and on
(07:42):
and on, which I think is what is really cool
about what you are trying to do is you're not
trying to interrupt the cycle. You're trying to stop it
before whatever occurs.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
We are we're being proactive, trying to get in front
of it. Okay, I'll kind of go back to what
I said a few minutes ago when I started off
traveling around the country talking to school assemblies, church groups,
had Eric Strada going with me. I don't know if
your listeners can remember Eric or not, but Chips, yeah
(08:12):
from Chips. We'll go back on that. Yeah, Yeah, so
did I. But Eric and I traveled for two years
talking to school groups and churches. UH. Safe Surfing had
funded a movie that was called Finding Faith that Eric's
started in UH, and we would go to churches all
(08:36):
over the country from Mississippi to California, showing this movie
at no charge, not charging the thing, trying to get
ahead of these predators. And the movie was about UH,
kidnapping and human trafficking and this kind of thing. And
it's still out there and you can go online and find.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That the name of that finding Finding Faith. Yeah, okay,
all right.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Faith was the name of the girl that got abducted
in and it's it's faith. It's faith based as.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, right, Okay, So, like, from your standpoint, what to
talk about some of the partners that you have, because
I think that's what's unique about it is obviously IKAK
is a government reaction to a situation. I think it's
really cool that a private entity is out there trying
(09:31):
to prevent even a government intervention. At this point, you know,
if you don't have a victim, you don't you don't
have to investigate it. So talk about some of the
partners that y'all have with safe Surfing.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, well, so we work with like I said a
few minutes ago, National Center from Missing Exploited Children. They're
a nonprofit as well. Okay, they've got wonderful educational programs available.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
We do so talk about some of these educational programs
because I know we have parents and things like that,
and I think, I think it's so easy as a
parent to say, like, well if I just monitor a
little bit, but I don't think that we can't monitor
it that well. So ho, so how does that work?
How does it work with what you do as far
as educating the parents, educate the parents but also the children.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well let me let me kind of go into a
story on how our Team Cyberswatt came about and then
move on into AI if we could do that.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, so talk about Team Cyberswats.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Okay, so we eight nine years ago now realized after
I came back in from a trip Sheriff Brown but
still a sheriff here, and I met him over in
his office and now Safe Surfing is a five O
one C three nonprofit. Didn't have a lot of money.
What money we did have came from private donors, and
(10:55):
we volunteered a lot of our stuff. So for me
to try raffle took took some money, right, especially if
I'm going back to California and across across the country.
So I'd made several trips out and I came back
into the Sheriff's office and was kind of debriefing my
trip with him and Robin Sunquist, who was the co
(11:19):
founder with Sheriff Brown of Safe Surfing, and one of
the other ladies in the office, and I was saying, look,
I feel like we're spending a lot of money on
my travel, even though I'm staying in the back of
the airplane, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
And we're not talking about five storry, No.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
We're not. We're talking days in super eight whatever. If
it was clean. I was there right and then would
go out and talk to these kids. And I came
in one day, like I said earlier, we take Estrada,
we'd taken u Shaquille O'Neill, he was a supporter of us,
and I came in and said, look, I don't know
(11:58):
what to do. I don't feel like the these kids
are picking up what we're putting down out there, and
we're not spending the money the best way we can.
I just don't think they're listening to us. And one
of the ladies in the office, Janet, said, well, I've
got two girls and they don't listen to me either,
but they listened to each other. Well, the light bulb
(12:19):
kind of went off. Well, maybe we need to do
a peer to peer program. So we teamed up with
the National White Collar Crime Center out of Morgantown, West Virginia,
and developed the program that we named Team Cyber SWAT
and the SWAT stands for Safety while Accessing Technology. And
(12:42):
what we did was put together programs that the older
kids in high school could pull from the program we had,
whether it be sextortion, cyber bullying, human trafficking, social whatever's
going on in their school. We would give them links
(13:05):
to go out to where they could actually build their
own presentation for them to give to the younger students.
And we was very successful in getting that out to schools.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
So that's a huge resource that you can actually you
already have everything in there and.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
All the kids had to do was go pull it,
put their words to the presentation, and make it relevant
for them. It did, and they listened. They started listening
to kids. Well that was great until COVID hit. Yeah,
and once COVID hit, the kids went home from school,
(13:46):
the bad guys went home from work. So we had
the perfect storm. Now the predators are talking to the
kids more and more, right, So can.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I stop you sure? Because we're transitioning into the AI. Correct. Okay,
So let's talk a little bit more because what you
just explained is a very very simple program, but like
how effective is it? Well? As just so yeah, so
I'm just saying from a cybersquat, like because COVID is
(14:18):
over now we have kids that you can use it
again because you told me earlier about rock Ridge County
doing it, and so talk about the talk about what
you've experienced from the cybersquat, like you have all you
all invested a tremendous amount of time and effort into
this program and money and nobody's like it's not nobody's
(14:40):
using it, but like it is like this untapped amazing resource.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well Sheriff Brown's wife, Janet Okay as a professor or
she's retired now professor at Liberty University and Liberty it
has been a huge supporter of hours and they granted
h uh, Janet Or gave her the opportunity, uh to
go out and interview kids into schools that we had
(15:07):
put it in on a pilot program and we did
ten schools.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Uh so, y'all actually did like a valuation. We did. Yeah,
and we're talking We're not talking about some random person.
This is a doctor.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, we talked about doctor. Yes, I was at the
doctor psychology. Right. So she got to four of the schools. Okay,
I mean we were we even were out in Wyoming, Wyoming,
West Virginia, New York, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee. We had
had them spread out. Uh. So she got to four
schools interviewing the kids there on.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
After that, it had been in place for a while,
three months or whatever that was. And every kid it
was like each one of them had a script that
they shared and they didn't because they were all over
the country. Every kid said, hey, we see where this works.
We can tell in our school where the side the
bullying has slowed down, that we can really measure this
(16:06):
by what we see. And so it's working right, right,
So we're all excited and we're ready to rock and
roll rollless thing out across the country. And that's when then.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
COVID hit, but you still have that technico we do.
Oh yeah, so where Virginia you just said rock Bridge
is doing it. How many other jurisdictions are doing into Virginia.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah one them?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, So why, Like my question to you is, and
maybe you can't answer it because to me it doesn't
make sense. I'm saying as a as a full time investigator,
a ton of my cases are involving exactly we're talking
about children singing and nude photos to one another, things
like that, which to me is probably what you're already covering, correct, right,
(16:54):
And like you're talking about the ramifications long term all
these different things, and we're not talking of out like hey,
I want to come in there and preach to you
about this. We're saying we are empowering their community to
do it themselves. So like the school, the student in
that school can get this program, make it their own,
(17:16):
and deliver it to the remains to the other people.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
In the school at no charge.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
And so can you tell me, like one good reason
why you don't have parents like kicking down doors saying
Governor Yunkin became governor because people did not listen, you know,
in northern Virginia, They're like, hey, we want control over
(17:42):
our kids. We wanted to figure out what's best for
our kids. Why are we not doing this for the
cybersecurity for these kids?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
There are many different programs out there for them to
pick from, and there's only so much time allocated to
these kids. So what I have found is that the
teachers absolutely do not have time for it. So what
we developed was a program for the SROs to do it,
working with the sheriff's departments or the police chiefs or whatever,
(18:14):
and do it in a club atmosphere. We'll sit four
h stuff like that. Do you have Team cyberswat. We've
been on TV, We've advertised it throughout Virginia, these three
local channels, NBC, ABC, CBS, they've all picked it up.
(18:35):
We've put it out and nothing happens. And we'll go
into the schools and try to get it into schools
and the principles or the superintendents, And generally we'll try
to go to the superintendents because it's going to end
up on their desk anyway. What goes into schools, they
will they'll say, well, we just we don't want to
(18:57):
deal with that. When I have time, whether it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Based on your experience. Is it one of those things
where it's like, hey, if we have safe surfering cybersquat here,
that means we have a problem. So let's pretend like
we don't have a problem. We're not going to interrupt
their educational experience. To me, as an investigator that has
to investigate those kind of crimes, it is unreal to
(19:24):
me that we are not we are not being proactive
because I feel like what I'm hearing you say is
the school system is like, I'm not really sure. What
about sheriffs picking this up?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Let me tell you. Let me tell you a true
story that to happen. So a principal asked me to
come into that I knew, okay, So he goes and
you knew what I was doing. He said, can you
give come in to a presentation? And I'm going, for sure, Sure,
what's going on? Oh we got a pretty big problem
with sex sexting. Mm hm, We're kids are taking pictures theirself,
(19:56):
they're passing around and also bullying. So you do about
an hour to our student body and I'm going, sure,
not a problem at all. So I was going into
the school that particular day and the superintendent, who also
knew of schools in this county, came walking by, Hey, Eddie,
what do you What are you doing up here? I said, well,
(20:17):
I'm getting ready to do a presentation on bullying and
cyber problems. He goes, we.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Don't have that problem exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I'm going we do have the problem.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
But I don't think there's a parent out there that
thinks that this is not a problem.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
The problem is that the parents don't know how to
educate the kids. And I get that because.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You've just given them a pathway.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh yeah, we have.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
We have, and these parents it's not getting to the
parents though.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
It's not it's not. And we've spent money on advertising
on TV, on radio, on the internet. We got Facebook,
We've got you've.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Got a phenomenal website. You've got a phenomenal product.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
We do.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I don't want to compare it as a cure to cancer,
but it is definitely important enough. Yeah, it's important enough
for us to interrupt a child victim because what you
just described as far as when kids send a picture out,
what people don't realize that are not like you, that
have experienced this firsthand. They send that picture out everybody
(21:29):
that receives that picture is in possession of child pornoco
and so that's a felony each time. Maybe that's the thing.
Maybe it is like, hey, parents, you can either choose
to do this program which is going to keep your
child from being involved in a felony, or we can
go ahead and go through the law enforcement. Because I
feel like it is it is almost unfathomable that we
(21:52):
have a resource to prevent what I see on a
daily basis, as far as these kids that are sending
nude photos, that are doing things things that like if
they just weren't, they're kids, they really are. It's no
different than us when we were growing up. We finally
realized it's probably a good idea for you to wear
a helmet when you're ade a four wheeler, when you're
ride a bike. It's just a prevention, right, So why
(22:14):
why can we not do that for our kids? Now?
We can.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We are moving into AI Okay to educate the kids
as well. But a couple I guess things that we
need to really get get out to everybody as hell.
We need to have laws passed that will put education,
(22:38):
internet safety, education in the forefront out in our schools
to actually require these schools to to give this education
we give West Virginia.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I worked Sheriff Brown and I worked with Senator Senator Date,
and there's a Center Deeds in Virginia. One in West Virginia.
We were working.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Are they brothers? No? No, not related, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And we talked to him about the problems that we're having.
And the reason Senator Deeds was involved is Sheriff Brown's
wife's from West Virginia and there's some connection Greenbroock County
iniskind of thing. Yes, So we went up and talked
to him and really explained to him the issues out
here and that we really need laws passed making internet
(23:26):
safety mandatory education mandatory. And he said okay, And within
one year, one year, Senator Deeds got the bill passed
Center Bill four sixty six in West Virginia making Internet
safety education mandatory in all public schools grades three through twelve,
(23:49):
every school, in every school, every public school in West Virginia.
Now they wanted us to help them write up a
curriculum on how to do that. We sat down Apartment
of Education and we help them them right right.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
To the West Virginia Department of Education.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes, okay, so they've been working great. We're rolling out
our program we can talk about in a few minutes
in August.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
August.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I believe it's eighteenth and we're about a well, I
think we're a month away, right, Yes, to roll in
this program out to every kid, incorporating the cyberswat program
and an AI program as well.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Up there.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Now. We've met with Representative Walker from Lynchburg here and
Senator Stanley so it's Smith Mountain Lake, yes, that area,
and tried to put together a bill that the House
and Senate could pass. They would have some meat to
(24:50):
it that would actually mandate the program. They haven't put
the program together that has the meet in it.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
How long have you been trying in Virginia to do.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Schriff Brown's probably I've been trying with Sheriff Brown for
about four or five years. Schriff Brown's been trying to
since nineteen ninety eight. He said, Democrats, Republicans, and they
all talk a great game. Yeah, yeah, we really want
to do this, do that, and they.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Don't do that.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
No, they don't.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
What West Virginia, We're thirty years into it.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I'll tell you it kills me. I grew up in Virginia,
Virginia native live in Virginia that we had to go
to West Virginia to get our kids protected on Internet
safety first.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I don't think I mean, I don't feel like anybody
would disagree with your premise of kids have more access
than they have ever had. The computers will be into predators.
You're a gateway to predators. Realistically, then that is. And
you have a program to teach these We send them
to drivers driver's ed to drive a car. And obviously,
(26:10):
like a car is a big but some are these
human beings and these children that are that become victims
and in some cases I don't even think they know
they're victims. They think they think that what they're doing
is normal, like this is normal behavior, this is what happens.
And I just cannot believe that you are giving this
(26:33):
and nobody wants to take it.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Unbelievable, isn't it. But that's a fact. You know, this
is like a parent parents now and you can go
to any restaurant, take a Friday night and ronic Lunchberg, Bedford, wherever,
and just look around at the table of families and
there might be a mom and a dad and a
brother and a sister. Well all four of them have
(26:55):
a phone and they're all on it texting, may even
be text in each other, who knows, yes, But I
mean we're talking about kids that are five six years
old having this device untrained. It's like saying, Okay, you're
the keys to the car, go figure out how to
drive it. And they can't.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Right well, they to navigate, they know how to navigate,
but they have no idea how to do it safely.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
They don't know how to do it safely exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And I think that, like, to me, one of the
things that is my biggest frustration with law enforcement is
we are reactive. We will react, and we are reacting mass.
I mean like we're really good at it. I mean
we if you have a critical instant, we know people
are coming and they're going to help you. But that's
after it happens. What about now when we have like
(27:47):
something that you know is a problem. The numbers are there,
So I know you said you don't know the numbers,
but like, if parents are interested in on in numbers
like this, are what are the resources they have to
see how big a problem this is?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Oh, go to the FBI's website. Just look look under
Internet Internet Safety there FBI statistics.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Because Homeland Security is doing all right, let's talk about
Homeland security a little bit. Okay, all right, what what
is Homeland Security doing?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
From what I can tell, nothing other than they're not
being proactive and educating the problem.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
So they so they but they have teams that deal
with that. But again, they have teams that react.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Their their funding is only allowing them to do that.
And I'm gonna put it back on the on the Congress, Senate,
you know, house representatives. They've got to provide demand power
to be able to go out and educate the kids, right,
and they don't have the money to do it. So
(28:57):
the only money money they've got is to take cases
and see if being reactive right right, So that's a
huge problem. Like IKAK right now, if you talk to
the commander here in Forrest, I'm sure he'll tell you
they're backed up like two years worth of cases. They
(29:20):
don't have time to go after these guys. That's how
far behind. And I hear this across the country. So
we've got to get education into these schools. Education that's meaningful,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And your education product works.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
It does work, it works, been proven.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And it's again and forgive my ignorance, but like to
me as somebody that deals with it day in and
day out, the fact that you have a solution that
you can put in place now that will not just
start now, but it'll the children today twenty years from
(30:00):
now are going to still be able to like, they're
not going to be a victim, and if they're not
a victim, they're not going to be a predator. If
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
It makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And so like you're breaking the cycle before it ever starts.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
You hit it to nail right on the head. We've
got to break that cycle and education is the way
to do it. And with this Team Cybersquat program that
we're we're putting in schools as well as our deputy
program on the AI end of it, this is this
is how we're structuring it for it to be an
ongoing program from year to year to year to year.
(30:34):
So the juniors and seniors in high school with the
Team Cyberswat, they started off, they talk to kids in
the lower grades. Those kids want to become part of
their club, right, the Cybersquat club. And then when the
seniors graduate. Now the juniors are seniors, and sophomores move up.
It just keeps going. And you got to have your
(30:56):
sheriff's departments, all your share offices, and your police departments
on board. And I haven't met one law enforcement agency
yet that isn't on board with doing this. I've not
had the first one. They go, yep, we want to
do this.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
So what would it you said to have teeth? But
my question to you is this is so like, what
if in West Virginia. What is the cost to West
Virginia to put your program in statewide?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Well, right now, the Team Cyberswate program, there is no
charge period. Okay, we provide them the log in to
go to a website Team Cyberswate website. We'll provide the
log in to the SRO and SRO. All we're asking
them to do is to kind of keep the kids in,
(31:53):
hurt them in the right place, don't don't go off
subject this kind of thing. They give them the information
for them to build a program.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Right so everything that that's our programs are designed as
a mentorship. That's exactly what you're doing exactly. They're facilitator.
That's all We asked them to do. Where I have
seen it gets sideways is where Ansorrow wants to run
the program.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And that's not the point. It's not point at all.
It's all about period Peer. Now in West Virginia, we're
rolling out a pilot program with Skill. We've partnered without
a Dana Point, California. We've partnered with them about two
years ago to create an artificial intelligence educational program based
(32:40):
on period Peer, and we finally got that program ready.
Spent several million.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Dollars that youse save surfings.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
We know we've spent a great deal of money, not
that amount, but we've spent a couple of one hundred thousand.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
You don't and basically donated that money to get it rolling,
to help build this.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And they've put a program they named Deputy to where
a child can actually have an app on their phone
that they can actually talk to an influencer. So if
they're having an issue, let's say they've been approached online
(33:26):
by someone that wants them to send a picture, Well
that that kid can go online and to this Deputy
app and go here's what's happening. I'm talking to someone
I don't really know them, but they want me to
send a picture, and they will send a picture and
this kind of thing. What should I do? And immediately
this person, if you will, which is AI, will give
(33:52):
them the proper direction on what to do. Number One,
you don't want to do that, here's some other options.
Talk to your parents, law enforcement, trusted adult, whatever. So
we've got that put and that's what we're putting in
West Virginia in addition to the CYBERSWAT program for a
two year test program. Okay, and that's going to be
(34:13):
no charge starting off with them as a pilot, but
it's going to eventually be a ten dollars per student
per year to be able to get on it. And
it's going on their chromebooks in school as well to
where we're putting a game program, if you will, in
(34:36):
front of the kids, and they will be asked a
series of questions concerning whether it's cyberbole and human trafficking,
sex source or whatever it might be. And they've got
three options to choose, and it'll be seven different less
seven different questions. They've got several options to choose, and
when they get it wrong, then they have to go
(34:58):
back u and revisit it. And until they get it right,
the answer right, uh, and then the teacher will be
able to get a report from US grading the child on.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
So it's not just a it's not just a educational
without something on the back end to realize that this
kid actually learned how to.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Be saved exactly and that and that's what it's not just.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
A blank It's just not a blanket thing like, hey,
we're going to throw this at We're going to throw
this program out there and see if it works. You
are actually testing it.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, this is gonna be measurable. Okay, you know, I
think it's got to be measurable. And and what our
what our I don't want to say, our hope, our
expectation is that this program will take off in other
states see it and see the value in it and
be able to get started. Even if we just start
(35:54):
with the program. That's no charge. Let's get it going.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
So the so like here right now, sheriff's departments locally,
because I feel like sheriffs are the ones that are
like they have their hand on the pulse in the localities.
What can we do and what can parents and the
jurisdictions that listen to this, how do they get their
locality interested and get the get things rolling for them. Well,
(36:21):
they can call us okay.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Uh and go to our website at a safe surfing
and it's s U R F I N O G
on the end, okay dot org our phone number, the whole,
the whole thing would be on.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I just I just think that this is something that
I would like to personally get involved in to like
get this pushing down the track because, like from I
have a really small voice, but I can be loud
and so like from my standpoint as a law enforcement officer,
I think it. I think it's a disgrace honestly that
we won't, not as a as a as a state,
(37:00):
and as a community, won't get out there and go, hey,
we have a problem. Our kids have access to a
lot of bad stuff, and these people are going to
teach our kids how not to access how to safely
navigate a really bad situation exactly. And like for me,
I just would like to know how we can get
(37:20):
that out there, like who can we contact and what
can we do to get people? Because you have a
good product. I've gone to your website, I've looked at
all these things, and y'all you're not. When I decided
to do a podcast, one of the things that I
did is I found people that actually know what they're doing.
I don't have any idea, like I don't know what
our dues get up here and talk, but people know
(37:42):
what they're supposed to do. These people know how to
put this information out there, and so I want to
know how we can put You've got you've gone with
the best of the best, the stuff that you have online.
It's not like somebody made it in their garage. It
is like it is cutting edge information. And so like
for me, is how do we get that information? First
(38:05):
of all, let parents know, like, hey, you have an alternative.
You can actually push this information out to your kids today.
Put this information out to your kids, keep your kids
safe today, not tomorrow. They can go to your website
right now and they can learn how to navigate this right.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
We've got We've got several different tabs that I would
recommend using off our website to educate, to be educated yourself.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Okay, we've got a book.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
That that list frequently asked questions. Okay, it's about seven
eight ten page booklet. Okay, you know a lot a
lot of our issue now with parents not understanding how
to educate is it's not just the parents who are
that grew up with the computer. A lot of the
(38:55):
parents now and you know, they had computers when they
were in school, but a lot of the grandparents are
having to care for these kids. Yes, sir, and they
could be in their sixties, seventies, eighties and they haven't
grown up with the computer. They don't know what to do.
But they can go online to our website and pull
(39:16):
these resources out to help educate them. But we need
these parents to go to these school superintendents, to the
school principles, to the sheriff's offices and say, look, we
know there's a program out there. It works, it's a
great program, and to get it in your school. It's
free and.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
It doesn't cost what they y'all have already invested. Y'all
have taken the brunt of the investment in developing this
information and technology we have. You just need people to
do it.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yep, that's it.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Well, we'll definitely link all that stuff because, like for me,
is someone that has to investigate this stuff, it doesn't
make sense. It really doesn't. It's like it's like it's missing.
Something is missing. You've clearly identified a problem. I think
I don't think anybody's gonna argue at that point that
that these kids are are more exposed than they've ever
(40:12):
been here.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Here's what's unbelievable. We we get rarely get phone calls
to come in to Hey, hey, come, can you come
to our school? Can you do this? Uh? Come in
help educate the kids. Unless something happens in the community.
Once a child gets subducted or a sextortion problem arises,
(40:36):
that's hit the news. We hear nothing. Once that happens,
our phone starts ringing off a hook. Hey can you
come over and do a program? You know, it's like
a one time, fixed, one time presentation is going to
fix it, and that is not going to work.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I mean it's almost like it's almost yeah, it's almost
like saying like, hey, we're going to educate our kids.
We're going to show up on day one and tell
them they're starting school, and then at the end of it,
we're gonna we're gonna give them their diploma and tell
them we enjoyed their time. It doesn't work. You have
to invest, and I feel like y'all have made the investment.
You developed technology and information that really works. It's just
(41:13):
getting people to buy off on it. We have so
talk talk a little bit about the legislative side of it,
because like, for me, why maybe just talk about the
process of You talked about Delegate Walker, You've talked about
another center Stanley. Yeah, you've talked about them. But what
(41:35):
exactly has what exactly has transpired with them?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Well, here's what will happen. And this has happened in
several states that I've been to. It's not just Virginia. Okay,
but we'll go in and talk to these folks and
they will agree with everything we're doing. They'll even put
it in a bill to present, right, Uh, just the
(42:00):
way West Virginia actually did it.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
So they already have the they already have.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
The We give them the whole format and here's what's worked.
We help them write the bill that we know will work,
and they get all excited and go, yep, we're gonna
we're going to present this and they will in session
and by the time it comes out of committee, Uh,
it has been butchered.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
So what committee? What committee of Virginia Education?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Uh would would be one? Uh, I'm not sure how
many different committees, these things go through, but at the
end end result is there's no meat. There's there's just
no no teeth to it.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
So let me ask you this, and this is just
me thinking out loud, s ro os. Ever since you've
all day, there's been a push to put s ros
in schools and you know, from a protection standpoint, as
a the term why can why is there any reason
(43:07):
why we can't get our s ros to start doing
this that you can think of?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
No, not at all?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
All right, So so tomorrow, if I have a conversation
with the sheriff and I say, hey, the Safe Surfer model,
you need to look at this. What are the steps
for that sheriff to get it implemented in this school year?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
First thing you would have to do is go to
school and say, look, there's a program that i'd like
to see implemented on Internet safety. Our people will run
it for you. All we ask is that you provide
time for us to do it. And what I'm finding
out is all the schools have a block time that
(43:48):
they can have, whether it's four h ff A, you know,
the different different clubs. So you could work Team cyberswat
right into a block time okay, and there's your time
to do it. And then we would provide the s
r O with the entire toolbox and explain how to
(44:08):
go through and present it to the kids. You know,
the one thing that has really worked is when when
we go into the schools, we try to find the
most popular kid and they're out there that every school has.
You've got someone out there that everybody kind of looks
up to, right Sometimes it might be the quarterback on
(44:30):
the football team, or the captain or a cheerleader or
whoever it may be. But you get that person involved,
explain to them exactly what you want to do, and
they start talking to their friends and creating this club
and even set it up with a president and vice
president and this kind of thing to make it a
(44:50):
real real deal. And what I've recommended it's work is
that they go out and talk to when these Hardy's, McDonald's,
some of some of the fast food and uh restaurant
chains and say, hey, this is what we're doing. Would
you be able to provide us with say twenty breakfast
(45:13):
biscuits for to start up our club and we're going
to announce it. Hey, we're going to start this club
it's one on cyber education, like for you to join. Oh,
by the way, we're having free uh McDonald's biscuits or whatever,
you know, whatever it may be. Well, once they hear
(45:33):
there's food kind of like copped right. Yeah. No, once
they hear it's food and they come like the donut,
I'm gonna lie. So once they here it's food, at
least they'll come in and start listening to the program.
And we've got school in North Carolina in Ardale County
right now down near Lake Norman. They have over one
(45:56):
hundred uh kids in the Cypressquat Teams cyberswat club and
it's been a consistent one hundred kids for the last
four years.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
So when they create this club, and this is just
clarification of my brain, when they create this club, does
what they create then is disseminated throughout the entire school system.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, that's the idea. Yeah, they will put their spin
on whatever they can pick. What's happening at their school.
What's going on at Jefferson Forest High School might be
something different. It might be cyber bullying at Jefferson Forest.
Well over at Stanton River, it could be something totally different,
(46:38):
totally different. But we've given these options lesson plans if
you will, for the kid to go to or the
kids to go to and pull that information to put
their own spin on it, to go out and talk
to assemblies. They can even go down into the elementary
schools and talk to these kids. Everything is age appropriate.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
So let me ask you this, and this might be
a stab that might come back and work poorly for me,
But let me ask you a question. If I were
to get with the school system and the school system says, yes,
we want to do this, when could we roll out
the entire curriculum? If we started the club in August,
(47:23):
when is that? When does that program roll out to
the rest of the school.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Well, that would depend on the kids.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
But I'm saying, like, what is a realistic timetable by if.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
We would start setting it up like now, right, we
get the permission from the superintendent, schools all the way
down to sheriff, the whole deal. We would send them
the log in to the website, to the toolbox. We've
got an onboarding training right on that on that video,
and that they could start it immediately. It would be
(47:58):
realistic for the first meeting to be in September October
or something like that.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
And so let me ask you, so, like my thought
processes this is, is there a way if we create
this club that these students are given some type of
And I guess that's up to the individual school system.
But if an individual school system says if you do
this project, this is considered a positive and you get
(48:24):
school credit for it, is that possible. I'm just I'm
just curious. I'm just trying to think of like the
motivations because one of the things that I learned with
the gen zers that we have, like these college kids
that we're dealing with, they have a miraculous ability to
navigate and put things out there and if you give
them the like the guardrails, they'll roll with it. And
(48:48):
so like for me my thought processes, this is like
go to a school system and say, hey, look, we're
going to get this club started. Your entire population in
your school is going to get internet safety training, peer
to peer training. By the end of this fiscal school year,
we do active shooter training. You know, and that's almost
(49:08):
said a bad word, but that is reactive. That's reactive.
It has already happened. How many victims, how many. That's
what I'd like to do is I'd like to put
out how many victims do you have in that community
in that timeframe. It's not like, hey, let's see if
we can take our time and get this start. Not
it's happening every day. And so why are especially after COVID,
these kids were left alone in the house. The schools
(49:30):
gave them a computer to go out there and connect,
but we who are they connecting to storm? Yes, And
so like with that in mind, like I don't feel
like there is a sense of urgency in our school
systems to say we have got to get out there
and get this information out there now. And here's here's
(49:51):
an entity that has invested a lot of time and
effort and have done it in a really wise way.
Let's push this information out there like this is this
is a critical type of and it is it is
critical because these kids, like every single day that one
of these kids sends a picture out there, they're a victim.
The kids that they send it to are victims. They
(50:13):
might not realize it until they're twenty twenty five years
old and they're like, oh my gosh, like that that
picture's still out there.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Oh well, when they're applying for jobs. Yeah, a majority
or a lot of all your larger companies now are
are checking their their social media accounts for sure. So
if they can put this program together the kids that
are driving it, they can certainly use that on their resume,
(50:42):
not only for.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Like, hey, I agree, I created this space for kids.
One hundred percent of the kids in this particular county
exactly have been educated on what needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
That's right, And tell me that won't look good on
your college So let me.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Ask you this. Let's say the school says like, no,
we're not want to do this because they have what
if this club met somewhere else, got the curriculum together
and then presented it to the school board January first.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Couldn't easily do that, sure, and then we.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Had to let them, let them go and say we
don't want our kids. These kids have worked really hard
on this project. This information is ready to flow out there.
Go ahead and tell them we're not going to let
We're not going to allow our students to have access
to this and be beautiful.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
It certainly would, and we will we will certainly support
support them from our office. One hundred percent, giving them
anything we can to help them.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
But that's not unreasonable, right, It's not unreasonable if we
found if we identify kids in a particular jurisdiction like that,
are like, hey, I don't want this to happen like
this happened to me. I don't want it to happen.
We need to we need to educate our kids. So
it's grade three through twelve.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
And we can even go to kindergarten with by using
the nets Mars program that we incorporate into Team Cyber Swat.
They have a program from K through six using animated
characters if you will, to help educate the kids, you know,
(52:15):
a clique and Mousey and different little animate that even
going down to because.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
That that's already done. That's already available, correct, that is available.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Everything we've got is available and ready to.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
But I'm saying on the SWAT, the Team SWAT requires
an investment of kids time to deliver it to the
grades below them. That other one, the K through six
is something that is available right now. You use you
can roll out the program and these kids have access
to it right.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Well, everything is available right now, and the older kids
can go down into the k kindergarten through all the
way up to through twelfth grade, right.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
And all this is all this has like been vetted
with psychologists and everything else as being age appropriate and everything.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Tures.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
I don't like, Like I said, I I don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
I'd love for this program to go out in nationwide.
Your program to go out in nationwide and maybe you know,
get some folks thinking we've got to do something.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
I just intacted. I think all I think all we
need is we need some parents in some of these
jurisdictions that have been impacted by this to step up
to the plate and say, my kid has suffered from this,
but this is important enough for me that there's younger
siblings and other people are going to be in the
same situation this kid was absolutely so yeah, It's it's
(53:39):
baffling to me that I understand like divisiveness and everything else,
but like I don't understand, like when you clearly have
a problem, why it doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Parents are not realizing how how big of a problem
this is until something happens to them, are the loved
one or something hits news. Because this will never happen
in my town. That's the thinking.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
But the crazy thing about it is law enforcement will
tell you it already is already is happening.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
This is not you talk about the felonies. My goodness.
Number one, if you're going to take a photo, a
new photo of yourself, when you do that, you've just
produced child pornography, felony number one. Then when you send
it to somebody, now you've distributed it, that's felony number two.
When they send it to someone else, that person gets
(54:33):
hooked with a felony for distribution, possession and distribution. So
you know, these kids have to realize, and the only
way they're going to realize is somebody tells them right that,
But nobody's telling me.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Nobody's telling them after they make the mistake.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
I've been in schools, honestly, in high school assemblies where
I would ask the kids, how many of you know
what a felony is right your hand? And I would
get maybe ten to twenty percent right, And particularly in
the rural schools, I would say, well, how many of
you all like to hunt? And oh, my goodness, the
(55:14):
girls and the boys both, you know, the hands go up,
and I said, well, do you realize if you're convicted
of felony that you're right to firearms or will be
taken away. Oh no, And do you realize that sending
a nude photo is a felony and can be more
than one felony? And that gets their attention that okay, now,
(55:35):
now I don't want you to take my guns away,
right right? Do you know you're not gonna be able
to vote, you know? So it's all about awareness. It's
all about awareness, and we've got that tool for the
kids in the schools.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Well, for me, I appreciate you coming in and giving
us your time because, like for me, I just feel
like you have a solution. And it doesn't look like
anybody what I think people are seeing it, but the
sense of urgency isn't there.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Well, West Virginia is certainly seeing it, and boy, I
would rather be sitting here saying, man, Virginia is leading
the nation in this, but unfortunately West Virginia is taking
a lead on it, and Pennsylvania they're putting it in,
putting it in as well. They really wanted to be
the first, but we'd already promised West Virginia. So I
mean we're getting this message out. Uh, it's just slow.
(56:30):
It's a slow process. We've been We've been trying to
get it out for years.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Yeah, I mean like thirty years.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Unbelievable. Well, thank you for having.
Speaker 1 (56:39):
Me, absolutely helpful. No, it definitely has. I feel like
as a parent and as somebody that's in law enforcement,
to think that this resource has been there and we
haven't been able to use it, it's just it is
baffling and it The bottom line, and I'd say this
to anybody who listens to this program, is like, if
you think your kid is not access and some bad stuff,
(57:01):
you're living in a different realm of reality because because
your kids, your kids are accessing stuff they should never see.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
And if you're taking it in the phone away from
the kid at home, or not letting them see be
on a computer at home, they're going to go to
their friend's house, right, So they're gonna they're gonna have
access to it. I will close. I guess with this.
One of the FBI statistics is that if your kid
is online gaming, it's a chance they're going to be
(57:32):
approached by an online predator. So the key to that
is they need to know when they're being approached and
then what to do about it. Yeah, what it looks
like exactly, so it's familiar to them exactly, and then
what to do about it. And we've got we've got
to get out to these kids. Well, I appreciate the
time
Please have Eddie Worth with a Safe Surfing foundation. They're
doing some phenomenal work. I have a lot of different
people on our show that talk about law enforcement issues,
and it's really cool to have somebody that is working
hand in hand with law enforcement and instead of responding
to a tragedy, you're trying to prevent it. I really
(00:29):
appreciate you coming on talking about what safe Surfing is doing,
and just like I always just want to open up
by Tony, like, I really appreciate you being here and
like you talk a little bit about where you grew
up and how you ended up in safe surfing.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Sure, glad to and thanks for having me too.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
You know, safe surfing has been around since nineteen ninety eight. Okay,
so we're still trying to get word out on how
to properly educate our children and parents on internet safety.
Kind Of going back to my history, I went to
natural Bridge High School, graduated from natural Bridge High School.
The Rockets, right, Natural Bridge Rockets exactly. Yeah, but that
(01:10):
was back in sixty eight when I graduated, So I'm
kind of telling them why i'm gray hair now right. Well,
So after that, went to Phillips Business College over in Lynchburg.
I don't think they're still there, but went there and
while I was there, had the opportunity to go to
work with the FBI up in d C. So stayed
(01:32):
with the FBI for a while. I realized that really
I wasn't the city guy, and that's where I was
going to have to work. I was working right out
of downtown d C on Second and D Street, And
you know, I grew up in Glasgow and natural bridget
every little culture difference there. Yeah, Like we went from
(01:55):
zero stop lights to Washington, d C. So that didn't
last long. However. Yeah, I got quite an education though
not only on law enforcement and the identification side of
what the FBI does, but just general learning knowledge culture,
(02:17):
different cultures than what I've grown up in. But decided that,
you know, I need to get back back home and
was able to. Then I was hired by Eco Lab,
which is a fortune five hundred company, and I spent
my career there in sales. And from there that's what
(02:41):
I met with Sheriff Brown at a conference. The Moose
Association is a huge, huge supporter of Sheriff Brown and
the Foundation, and I was at a conference and Sheriff
Brown had a lady and his daughter and her daughter
and your daughter had been abducted by an online predator.
(03:03):
And they told their story and it just hit me that, man,
I need to do something here to help the just
to help this cause. So I started volunteering. And this
was back early two thousands, I guess, and I volunteered,
traveling across the country when I could get off work
and this kind of thing, going out and talking to
(03:26):
kids and parents about internet safety. Sheriff Brown was able
to get me in front of the folks at ikak
here in Bedford County internet crimes against children and they
helped me learn what all was going on and how
to talk to the kids, and became associated with the
National Center for Missing Exploited Children and picked up on
(03:49):
their programs and then this went out and started speaking
as a volunteer. This went on for I guess fifteen
years or so. And realized after after going out and
talking to these kids that they weren't really listening to
(04:11):
a older person come in and talk to them about
the Internet because they knew more than we did, right right,
So that's kind of how I got started in the
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
And so they grew up that these kids grew up
in it. They know how to navigate things.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, one hundred percent. You know back in nineteen ninety
eight that i CAC got started in nineteen ninety six
and Sheriff Brown, Bedford County Sheriff's Office was one of
the first ten IICACK task forces.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I think there's the only i CACK task force that
operated a BYuT a local jurisdics.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
They may be, they may be. Uh. There are two
IICAQ task forces in Virginia. The state Police as one
in northern Northern Virginia and Bedford County has the one
here U sixty. I believe there's sixty two of them
now across the country.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's really cool. Here's the problem.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
These guys. They're sitting behind the computers, guys and girls,
God bless them there they sit behind computers and talk
to these predators to see if they're going to cross
the line. And that is so hard on these folks
because they see and hear all these stories and it's
(05:28):
terrible what's going on.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So you talked about the story that you heard that
the child that had been abducted, and we thought we
talk a lot about what law enforcement goes through. Just
to just talk a little bit just on your knowledge
of like what these investigators have to go through. You know,
it sounds really clean, like, hey, we have this chat
(05:52):
and now like them up. But it's not that something.
It's not that's something at all. Really the mental part
that these investigators go through through a lot of the times,
and more likely than not, more more times than not,
they can only do this job for a short period
of time because it wears on them emotionally so much.
(06:16):
Because keep in mind, these investigators they have children at home,
right or they may have grandchildren, nieces and nephews, and
they can see all these things happening to their families,
and they're actually talking to these predators that are are
telling them some of the worst things in the world.
(06:36):
You can imagine that they're doing in some of the
vilest images. Oh, you can imagine. I think Sheriff Brown
had discussed an adult having sex with a baby an infant, Yeah,
an infant, yes, And I mean and that's not unusual,
that's not unusual at all. I think what's kind of
interesting is one of the things that we discussed with
(06:59):
We did a project with Liberty University and the students
that participated in that. They actually got on the dark web,
and we're able to find where you could actually order
a child, and it's it's a year and up. And
I don't think people realize like what the impact of
that is not only for the victim, but also from
(07:19):
a law enforcement standpoint, these kids never recover. We work,
you know, I'm still in law enforcement, and we work
these these sexual assaults and it's just a it really
is a reoccurring issue. Like if you if you're if
you abuse a child, that child is probably gonna end
up an abuser. And it just continues on and on
(07:42):
and on, which I think is what is really cool
about what you are trying to do is you're not
trying to interrupt the cycle. You're trying to stop it
before whatever occurs.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
We are we're being proactive, trying to get in front
of it. Okay, I'll kind of go back to what
I said a few minutes ago when I started off
traveling around the country talking to school assemblies, church groups,
had Eric Strada going with me. I don't know if
your listeners can remember Eric or not, but Chips, yeah
(08:12):
from Chips. We'll go back on that. Yeah, Yeah, so
did I. But Eric and I traveled for two years
talking to school groups and churches. UH. Safe Surfing had
funded a movie that was called Finding Faith that Eric's
started in UH, and we would go to churches all
(08:36):
over the country from Mississippi to California, showing this movie
at no charge, not charging the thing, trying to get
ahead of these predators. And the movie was about UH,
kidnapping and human trafficking and this kind of thing. And
it's still out there and you can go online and find.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That the name of that finding Finding Faith. Yeah, okay,
all right.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Faith was the name of the girl that got abducted
in and it's it's faith. It's faith based as.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Well, right, Okay, So, like, from your standpoint, what to
talk about some of the partners that you have, because
I think that's what's unique about it is obviously IKAK
is a government reaction to a situation. I think it's
really cool that a private entity is out there trying
(09:31):
to prevent even a government intervention. At this point, you know,
if you don't have a victim, you don't you don't
have to investigate it. So talk about some of the
partners that y'all have with safe Surfing.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, well, so we work with like I said a
few minutes ago, National Center from Missing Exploited Children. They're
a nonprofit as well. Okay, they've got wonderful educational programs available.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
We do so talk about some of these educational programs
because I know we have parents and things like that,
and I think, I think it's so easy as a
parent to say, like, well if I just monitor a
little bit, but I don't think that we can't monitor
it that well. So ho, so how does that work?
How does it work with what you do as far
as educating the parents, educate the parents but also the children.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well let me let me kind of go into a
story on how our Team Cyberswatt came about and then
move on into AI if we could do that.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, so talk about Team Cyberswats.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Okay, so we eight nine years ago now realized after
I came back in from a trip Sheriff Brown but
still a sheriff here, and I met him over in
his office and now Safe Surfing is a five O
one C three nonprofit. Didn't have a lot of money.
What money we did have came from private donors, and
(10:55):
we volunteered a lot of our stuff. So for me
to try raffle took took some money, right, especially if
I'm going back to California and across across the country.
So I'd made several trips out and I came back
into the Sheriff's office and was kind of debriefing my
trip with him and Robin Sunquist, who was the co
(11:19):
founder with Sheriff Brown of Safe Surfing, and one of
the other ladies in the office, and I was saying, look,
I feel like we're spending a lot of money on
my travel, even though I'm staying in the back of
the airplane, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
And we're not talking about five storry, No.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
We're not. We're talking days in super eight whatever. If
it was clean. I was there right and then would
go out and talk to these kids. And I came
in one day, like I said earlier, we take Estrada,
we'd taken u Shaquille O'Neill, he was a supporter of us,
and I came in and said, look, I don't know
(11:58):
what to do. I don't feel like the these kids
are picking up what we're putting down out there, and
we're not spending the money the best way we can.
I just don't think they're listening to us. And one
of the ladies in the office, Janet, said, well, I've
got two girls and they don't listen to me either,
but they listened to each other. Well, the light bulb
(12:19):
kind of went off. Well, maybe we need to do
a peer to peer program. So we teamed up with
the National White Collar Crime Center out of Morgantown, West Virginia,
and developed the program that we named Team Cyber SWAT
and the SWAT stands for Safety while Accessing Technology. And
(12:42):
what we did was put together programs that the older
kids in high school could pull from the program we had,
whether it be sextortion, cyber bullying, human trafficking, social whatever's
going on in their school. We would give them links
(13:05):
to go out to where they could actually build their
own presentation for them to give to the younger students.
And we was very successful in getting that out to schools.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
So that's a huge resource that you can actually you
already have everything in there and.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
All the kids had to do was go pull it,
put their words to the presentation, and make it relevant
for them. It did, and they listened. They started listening
to kids. Well that was great until COVID hit. Yeah,
and once COVID hit, the kids went home from school,
(13:46):
the bad guys went home from work. So we had
the perfect storm. Now the predators are talking to the
kids more and more, right, So can.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I stop you sure? Because we're transitioning into the AI. Correct. Okay,
So let's talk a little bit more because what you
just explained is a very very simple program, but like
how effective is it? Well? As just so yeah, so
I'm just saying from a cybersquat, like because COVID is
(14:18):
over now we have kids that you can use it
again because you told me earlier about rock Ridge County
doing it, and so talk about the talk about what
you've experienced from the cybersquat, like you have all you
all invested a tremendous amount of time and effort into
this program and money and nobody's like it's not nobody's
(14:40):
using it, but like it is like this untapped amazing resource.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well Sheriff Brown's wife, Janet Okay as a professor or
she's retired now professor at Liberty University and Liberty it
has been a huge supporter of hours and they granted
h uh, Janet Or gave her the opportunity, uh to
go out and interview kids into schools that we had
(15:07):
put it in on a pilot program and we did
ten schools.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Uh so, y'all actually did like a valuation. We did. Yeah,
and we're talking We're not talking about some random person.
This is a doctor.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, we talked about doctor. Yes, I was at the
doctor psychology. Right. So she got to four of the schools. Okay,
I mean we were we even were out in Wyoming, Wyoming,
West Virginia, New York, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee. We had
had them spread out. Uh. So she got to four
schools interviewing the kids there on.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
After that, it had been in place for a while,
three months or whatever that was. And every kid it
was like each one of them had a script that
they shared and they didn't because they were all over
the country. Every kid said, hey, we see where this works.
We can tell in our school where the side the
bullying has slowed down, that we can really measure this
(16:06):
by what we see. And so it's working right, right,
So we're all excited and we're ready to rock and
roll rollless thing out across the country. And that's when then.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
COVID hit, but you still have that technico we do.
Oh yeah, so where Virginia you just said rock Bridge
is doing it. How many other jurisdictions are doing into Virginia.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah one them?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, So why, Like my question to you is, and
maybe you can't answer it because to me it doesn't
make sense. I'm saying as a as a full time investigator,
a ton of my cases are involving exactly we're talking
about children singing and nude photos to one another, things
like that, which to me is probably what you're already covering, correct, right,
(16:54):
And like you're talking about the ramifications long term all
these different things, and we're not talking of out like hey,
I want to come in there and preach to you
about this. We're saying we are empowering their community to
do it themselves. So like the school, the student in
that school can get this program, make it their own,
(17:16):
and deliver it to the remains to the other people.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
In the school at no charge.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
And so can you tell me, like one good reason
why you don't have parents like kicking down doors saying
Governor Yunkin became governor because people did not listen, you know,
in northern Virginia, They're like, hey, we want control over
(17:42):
our kids. We wanted to figure out what's best for
our kids. Why are we not doing this for the
cybersecurity for these kids?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
There are many different programs out there for them to
pick from, and there's only so much time allocated to
these kids. So what I have found is that the
teachers absolutely do not have time for it. So what
we developed was a program for the SROs to do it,
working with the sheriff's departments or the police chiefs or whatever,
(18:14):
and do it in a club atmosphere. We'll sit four
h stuff like that. Do you have Team cyberswat. We've
been on TV, We've advertised it throughout Virginia, these three
local channels, NBC, ABC, CBS, they've all picked it up.
(18:35):
We've put it out and nothing happens. And we'll go
into the schools and try to get it into schools
and the principles or the superintendents, And generally we'll try
to go to the superintendents because it's going to end
up on their desk anyway. What goes into schools, they
will they'll say, well, we just we don't want to
(18:57):
deal with that. When I have time, whether it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Based on your experience. Is it one of those things
where it's like, hey, if we have safe surfering cybersquat here,
that means we have a problem. So let's pretend like
we don't have a problem. We're not going to interrupt
their educational experience. To me, as an investigator that has
to investigate those kind of crimes, it is unreal to
(19:24):
me that we are not we are not being proactive
because I feel like what I'm hearing you say is
the school system is like, I'm not really sure. What
about sheriffs picking this up?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Let me tell you. Let me tell you a true
story that to happen. So a principal asked me to
come into that I knew, okay, So he goes and
you knew what I was doing. He said, can you
give come in to a presentation? And I'm going, for sure, Sure,
what's going on? Oh we got a pretty big problem
with sex sexting. Mm hm, We're kids are taking pictures theirself,
(19:56):
they're passing around and also bullying. So you do about
an hour to our student body and I'm going, sure,
not a problem at all. So I was going into
the school that particular day and the superintendent, who also
knew of schools in this county, came walking by, Hey, Eddie,
what do you What are you doing up here? I said, well,
(20:17):
I'm getting ready to do a presentation on bullying and
cyber problems. He goes, we.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Don't have that problem exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I'm going we do have the problem.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
But I don't think there's a parent out there that
thinks that this is not a problem.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
The problem is that the parents don't know how to
educate the kids. And I get that because.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You've just given them a pathway.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh yeah, we have.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
We have, and these parents it's not getting to the
parents though.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
It's not it's not. And we've spent money on advertising
on TV, on radio, on the internet. We got Facebook,
We've got you've.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Got a phenomenal website. You've got a phenomenal product.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
We do.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I don't want to compare it as a cure to cancer,
but it is definitely important enough. Yeah, it's important enough
for us to interrupt a child victim because what you
just described as far as when kids send a picture out,
what people don't realize that are not like you, that
have experienced this firsthand. They send that picture out everybody
(21:29):
that receives that picture is in possession of child pornoco
and so that's a felony each time. Maybe that's the thing.
Maybe it is like, hey, parents, you can either choose
to do this program which is going to keep your
child from being involved in a felony, or we can
go ahead and go through the law enforcement. Because I
feel like it is it is almost unfathomable that we
(21:52):
have a resource to prevent what I see on a
daily basis, as far as these kids that are sending
nude photos, that are doing things things that like if
they just weren't, they're kids, they really are. It's no
different than us when we were growing up. We finally
realized it's probably a good idea for you to wear
a helmet when you're ade a four wheeler, when you're
ride a bike. It's just a prevention, right, So why
(22:14):
why can we not do that for our kids? Now?
We can.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
We are moving into AI Okay to educate the kids
as well. But a couple I guess things that we
need to really get get out to everybody as hell.
We need to have laws passed that will put education,
(22:38):
internet safety, education in the forefront out in our schools
to actually require these schools to to give this education
we give West Virginia.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I worked Sheriff Brown and I worked with Senator Senator Date,
and there's a Center Deeds in Virginia. One in West Virginia.
We were working.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Are they brothers? No? No, not related, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And we talked to him about the problems that we're having.
And the reason Senator Deeds was involved is Sheriff Brown's
wife's from West Virginia and there's some connection Greenbroock County
iniskind of thing. Yes, So we went up and talked
to him and really explained to him the issues out
here and that we really need laws passed making internet
(23:26):
safety mandatory education mandatory. And he said okay, And within
one year, one year, Senator Deeds got the bill passed
Center Bill four sixty six in West Virginia making Internet
safety education mandatory in all public schools grades three through twelve,
(23:49):
every school, in every school, every public school in West Virginia.
Now they wanted us to help them write up a
curriculum on how to do that. We sat down Apartment
of Education and we help them them right right.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
To the West Virginia Department of Education.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yes, okay, so they've been working great. We're rolling out
our program we can talk about in a few minutes
in August.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
August.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I believe it's eighteenth and we're about a well, I
think we're a month away, right, Yes, to roll in
this program out to every kid, incorporating the cyberswat program
and an AI program as well.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Up there.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Now. We've met with Representative Walker from Lynchburg here and
Senator Stanley so it's Smith Mountain Lake, yes, that area,
and tried to put together a bill that the House
and Senate could pass. They would have some meat to
(24:50):
it that would actually mandate the program. They haven't put
the program together that has the meet in it.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
How long have you been trying in Virginia to do.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Schriff Brown's probably I've been trying with Sheriff Brown for
about four or five years. Schriff Brown's been trying to
since nineteen ninety eight. He said, Democrats, Republicans, and they
all talk a great game. Yeah, yeah, we really want
to do this, do that, and they.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Don't do that.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
No, they don't.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
What West Virginia, We're thirty years into it.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I'll tell you it kills me. I grew up in Virginia,
Virginia native live in Virginia that we had to go
to West Virginia to get our kids protected on Internet
safety first.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I don't think I mean, I don't feel like anybody
would disagree with your premise of kids have more access
than they have ever had. The computers will be into predators.
You're a gateway to predators. Realistically, then that is. And
you have a program to teach these We send them
to drivers driver's ed to drive a car. And obviously,
(26:10):
like a car is a big but some are these
human beings and these children that are that become victims
and in some cases I don't even think they know
they're victims. They think they think that what they're doing
is normal, like this is normal behavior, this is what happens.
And I just cannot believe that you are giving this
(26:33):
and nobody wants to take it.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Unbelievable, isn't it. But that's a fact. You know, this
is like a parent parents now and you can go
to any restaurant, take a Friday night and ronic Lunchberg, Bedford, wherever,
and just look around at the table of families and
there might be a mom and a dad and a
brother and a sister. Well all four of them have
(26:55):
a phone and they're all on it texting, may even
be text in each other, who knows, yes, But I
mean we're talking about kids that are five six years
old having this device untrained. It's like saying, Okay, you're
the keys to the car, go figure out how to
drive it. And they can't.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Right well, they to navigate, they know how to navigate,
but they have no idea how to do it safely.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
They don't know how to do it safely exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And I think that, like, to me, one of the
things that is my biggest frustration with law enforcement is
we are reactive. We will react, and we are reacting mass.
I mean like we're really good at it. I mean
we if you have a critical instant, we know people
are coming and they're going to help you. But that's
after it happens. What about now when we have like
(27:47):
something that you know is a problem. The numbers are there,
So I know you said you don't know the numbers,
but like, if parents are interested in on in numbers
like this, are what are the resources they have to
see how big a problem this is?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Oh, go to the FBI's website. Just look look under
Internet Internet Safety there FBI statistics.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Because Homeland Security is doing all right, let's talk about
Homeland security a little bit. Okay, all right, what what
is Homeland Security doing?
Speaker 2 (28:19):
From what I can tell, nothing other than they're not
being proactive and educating the problem.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
So they so they but they have teams that deal
with that. But again, they have teams that react.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Their their funding is only allowing them to do that.
And I'm gonna put it back on the on the Congress, Senate,
you know, house representatives. They've got to provide demand power
to be able to go out and educate the kids, right,
and they don't have the money to do it. So
(28:57):
the only money money they've got is to take cases
and see if being reactive right right, So that's a
huge problem. Like IKAK right now, if you talk to
the commander here in Forrest, I'm sure he'll tell you
they're backed up like two years worth of cases. They
(29:20):
don't have time to go after these guys. That's how
far behind. And I hear this across the country. So
we've got to get education into these schools. Education that's meaningful,
I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And your education product works.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
It does work, it works, been proven.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
And it's again and forgive my ignorance, but like to
me as somebody that deals with it day in and
day out, the fact that you have a solution that
you can put in place now that will not just
start now, but it'll the children today twenty years from
(30:00):
now are going to still be able to like, they're
not going to be a victim, and if they're not
a victim, they're not going to be a predator. If
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
It makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And so like you're breaking the cycle before it ever starts.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
You hit it to nail right on the head. We've
got to break that cycle and education is the way
to do it. And with this Team Cybersquat program that
we're we're putting in schools as well as our deputy
program on the AI end of it, this is this
is how we're structuring it for it to be an
ongoing program from year to year to year to year.
(30:34):
So the juniors and seniors in high school with the
Team Cyberswat, they started off, they talk to kids in
the lower grades. Those kids want to become part of
their club, right, the Cybersquat club. And then when the
seniors graduate. Now the juniors are seniors, and sophomores move up.
It just keeps going. And you got to have your
(30:56):
sheriff's departments, all your share offices, and your police departments
on board. And I haven't met one law enforcement agency
yet that isn't on board with doing this. I've not
had the first one. They go, yep, we want to
do this.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
So what would it you said to have teeth? But
my question to you is this is so like, what
if in West Virginia. What is the cost to West
Virginia to put your program in statewide?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Well, right now, the Team Cyberswate program, there is no
charge period. Okay, we provide them the log in to
go to a website Team Cyberswate website. We'll provide the
log in to the SRO and SRO. All we're asking
them to do is to kind of keep the kids in,
(31:53):
hurt them in the right place, don't don't go off
subject this kind of thing. They give them the information
for them to build a program.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Right so everything that that's our programs are designed as
a mentorship. That's exactly what you're doing exactly. They're facilitator.
That's all We asked them to do. Where I have
seen it gets sideways is where Ansorrow wants to run
the program.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And that's not the point. It's not point at all.
It's all about period Peer. Now in West Virginia, we're
rolling out a pilot program with Skill. We've partnered without
a Dana Point, California. We've partnered with them about two
years ago to create an artificial intelligence educational program based
(32:40):
on period Peer, and we finally got that program ready.
Spent several million.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Dollars that youse save surfings.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
We know we've spent a great deal of money, not
that amount, but we've spent a couple of one hundred thousand.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
You don't and basically donated that money to get it rolling,
to help build this.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And they've put a program they named Deputy to where
a child can actually have an app on their phone
that they can actually talk to an influencer. So if
they're having an issue, let's say they've been approached online
(33:26):
by someone that wants them to send a picture, Well
that that kid can go online and to this Deputy
app and go here's what's happening. I'm talking to someone
I don't really know them, but they want me to
send a picture, and they will send a picture and
this kind of thing. What should I do? And immediately
this person, if you will, which is AI, will give
(33:52):
them the proper direction on what to do. Number One,
you don't want to do that, here's some other options.
Talk to your parents, law enforcement, trusted adult, whatever. So
we've got that put and that's what we're putting in
West Virginia in addition to the CYBERSWAT program for a
two year test program. Okay, and that's going to be
(34:13):
no charge starting off with them as a pilot, but
it's going to eventually be a ten dollars per student
per year to be able to get on it. And
it's going on their chromebooks in school as well to
where we're putting a game program, if you will, in
(34:36):
front of the kids, and they will be asked a
series of questions concerning whether it's cyberbole and human trafficking,
sex source or whatever it might be. And they've got
three options to choose, and it'll be seven different less
seven different questions. They've got several options to choose, and
when they get it wrong, then they have to go
(34:58):
back u and revisit it. And until they get it right,
the answer right, uh, and then the teacher will be
able to get a report from US grading the child on.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
So it's not just a it's not just a educational
without something on the back end to realize that this
kid actually learned how to.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Be saved exactly and that and that's what it's not just.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
A blank It's just not a blanket thing like, hey,
we're going to throw this at We're going to throw
this program out there and see if it works. You
are actually testing it.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, this is gonna be measurable. Okay, you know, I
think it's got to be measurable. And and what our
what our I don't want to say, our hope, our
expectation is that this program will take off in other
states see it and see the value in it and
be able to get started. Even if we just start
(35:54):
with the program. That's no charge. Let's get it going.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
So the so like here right now, sheriff's departments locally,
because I feel like sheriffs are the ones that are
like they have their hand on the pulse in the localities.
What can we do and what can parents and the
jurisdictions that listen to this, how do they get their
locality interested and get the get things rolling for them. Well,
(36:21):
they can call us okay.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Uh and go to our website at a safe surfing
and it's s U R F I N O G
on the end, okay dot org our phone number, the whole,
the whole thing would be on.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I just I just think that this is something that
I would like to personally get involved in to like
get this pushing down the track because, like from I
have a really small voice, but I can be loud
and so like from my standpoint as a law enforcement officer,
I think it. I think it's a disgrace honestly that
we won't, not as a as a as a state,
(37:00):
and as a community, won't get out there and go, hey,
we have a problem. Our kids have access to a
lot of bad stuff, and these people are going to
teach our kids how not to access how to safely
navigate a really bad situation exactly. And like for me,
I just would like to know how we can get
(37:20):
that out there, like who can we contact and what
can we do to get people? Because you have a
good product. I've gone to your website, I've looked at
all these things, and y'all you're not. When I decided
to do a podcast, one of the things that I
did is I found people that actually know what they're doing.
I don't have any idea, like I don't know what
our dues get up here and talk, but people know
(37:42):
what they're supposed to do. These people know how to
put this information out there, and so I want to
know how we can put You've got you've gone with
the best of the best, the stuff that you have online.
It's not like somebody made it in their garage. It
is like it is cutting edge information. And so like
for me, is how do we get that information? First
(38:05):
of all, let parents know, like, hey, you have an alternative.
You can actually push this information out to your kids today.
Put this information out to your kids, keep your kids
safe today, not tomorrow. They can go to your website
right now and they can learn how to navigate this right.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
We've got We've got several different tabs that I would
recommend using off our website to educate, to be educated yourself.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Okay, we've got a book.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
That that list frequently asked questions. Okay, it's about seven
eight ten page booklet. Okay, you know a lot a
lot of our issue now with parents not understanding how
to educate is it's not just the parents who are
that grew up with the computer. A lot of the
(38:55):
parents now and you know, they had computers when they
were in school, but a lot of the grandparents are
having to care for these kids. Yes, sir, and they
could be in their sixties, seventies, eighties and they haven't
grown up with the computer. They don't know what to do.
But they can go online to our website and pull
(39:16):
these resources out to help educate them. But we need
these parents to go to these school superintendents, to the
school principles, to the sheriff's offices and say, look, we
know there's a program out there. It works, it's a
great program, and to get it in your school. It's
free and.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
It doesn't cost what they y'all have already invested. Y'all
have taken the brunt of the investment in developing this
information and technology we have. You just need people to
do it.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yep, that's it.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Well, we'll definitely link all that stuff because, like for me,
is someone that has to investigate this stuff, it doesn't
make sense. It really doesn't. It's like it's like it's missing.
Something is missing. You've clearly identified a problem. I think
I don't think anybody's gonna argue at that point that
that these kids are are more exposed than they've ever
(40:12):
been here.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Here's what's unbelievable. We we get rarely get phone calls
to come in to Hey, hey, come, can you come
to our school? Can you do this? Uh? Come in
help educate the kids. Unless something happens in the community.
Once a child gets subducted or a sextortion problem arises,
(40:36):
that's hit the news. We hear nothing. Once that happens,
our phone starts ringing off a hook. Hey can you
come over and do a program? You know, it's like
a one time, fixed, one time presentation is going to
fix it, and that is not going to work.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I mean it's almost like it's almost yeah, it's almost
like saying like, hey, we're going to educate our kids.
We're going to show up on day one and tell
them they're starting school, and then at the end of it,
we're gonna we're gonna give them their diploma and tell
them we enjoyed their time. It doesn't work. You have
to invest, and I feel like y'all have made the investment.
You developed technology and information that really works. It's just
(41:13):
getting people to buy off on it. We have so
talk talk a little bit about the legislative side of it,
because like, for me, why maybe just talk about the
process of You talked about Delegate Walker, You've talked about
another center Stanley. Yeah, you've talked about them. But what
(41:35):
exactly has what exactly has transpired with them?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Well, here's what will happen. And this has happened in
several states that I've been to. It's not just Virginia. Okay,
but we'll go in and talk to these folks and
they will agree with everything we're doing. They'll even put
it in a bill to present, right, Uh, just the
(42:00):
way West Virginia actually did it.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
So they already have the they already have.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
The We give them the whole format and here's what's worked.
We help them write the bill that we know will work,
and they get all excited and go, yep, we're gonna
we're going to present this and they will in session
and by the time it comes out of committee, Uh,
it has been butchered.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
So what committee? What committee of Virginia Education?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Uh would would be one? Uh, I'm not sure how
many different committees, these things go through, but at the
end end result is there's no meat. There's there's just
no no teeth to it.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
So let me ask you this, and this is just
me thinking out loud, s ro os. Ever since you've
all day, there's been a push to put s ros
in schools and you know, from a protection standpoint, as
a the term why can why is there any reason
(43:07):
why we can't get our s ros to start doing
this that you can think of?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
No, not at all?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
All right, So so tomorrow, if I have a conversation
with the sheriff and I say, hey, the Safe Surfer model,
you need to look at this. What are the steps
for that sheriff to get it implemented in this school year?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
First thing you would have to do is go to
school and say, look, there's a program that i'd like
to see implemented on Internet safety. Our people will run
it for you. All we ask is that you provide
time for us to do it. And what I'm finding
out is all the schools have a block time that
(43:48):
they can have, whether it's four h ff A, you know,
the different different clubs. So you could work Team cyberswat
right into a block time okay, and there's your time
to do it. And then we would provide the s
r O with the entire toolbox and explain how to
(44:08):
go through and present it to the kids. You know,
the one thing that has really worked is when when
we go into the schools, we try to find the
most popular kid and they're out there that every school has.
You've got someone out there that everybody kind of looks
up to, right Sometimes it might be the quarterback on
(44:30):
the football team, or the captain or a cheerleader or
whoever it may be. But you get that person involved,
explain to them exactly what you want to do, and
they start talking to their friends and creating this club
and even set it up with a president and vice
president and this kind of thing to make it a
(44:50):
real real deal. And what I've recommended it's work is
that they go out and talk to when these Hardy's, McDonald's,
some of some of the fast food and uh restaurant
chains and say, hey, this is what we're doing. Would
you be able to provide us with say twenty breakfast
(45:13):
biscuits for to start up our club and we're going
to announce it. Hey, we're going to start this club
it's one on cyber education, like for you to join. Oh,
by the way, we're having free uh McDonald's biscuits or whatever,
you know, whatever it may be. Well, once they hear
(45:33):
there's food kind of like copped right. Yeah. No, once
they hear it's food and they come like the donut,
I'm gonna lie. So once they here it's food, at
least they'll come in and start listening to the program.
And we've got school in North Carolina in Ardale County
right now down near Lake Norman. They have over one
(45:56):
hundred uh kids in the Cypressquat Teams cyberswat club and
it's been a consistent one hundred kids for the last
four years.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
So when they create this club, and this is just
clarification of my brain, when they create this club, does
what they create then is disseminated throughout the entire school system.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, that's the idea. Yeah, they will put their spin
on whatever they can pick. What's happening at their school.
What's going on at Jefferson Forest High School might be
something different. It might be cyber bullying at Jefferson Forest.
Well over at Stanton River, it could be something totally different,
(46:38):
totally different. But we've given these options lesson plans if
you will, for the kid to go to or the
kids to go to and pull that information to put
their own spin on it, to go out and talk
to assemblies. They can even go down into the elementary
schools and talk to these kids. Everything is age appropriate.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
So let me ask you this, and this might be
a stab that might come back and work poorly for me,
But let me ask you a question. If I were
to get with the school system and the school system says, yes,
we want to do this, when could we roll out
the entire curriculum? If we started the club in August,
(47:23):
when is that? When does that program roll out to
the rest of the school.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Well, that would depend on the kids.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
But I'm saying, like, what is a realistic timetable by if.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
We would start setting it up like now, right, we
get the permission from the superintendent, schools all the way
down to sheriff, the whole deal. We would send them
the log in to the website, to the toolbox. We've
got an onboarding training right on that on that video,
and that they could start it immediately. It would be
(47:58):
realistic for the first meeting to be in September October
or something like that.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
And so let me ask you, so, like my thought
processes this is, is there a way if we create
this club that these students are given some type of
And I guess that's up to the individual school system.
But if an individual school system says if you do
this project, this is considered a positive and you get
(48:24):
school credit for it, is that possible. I'm just I'm
just curious. I'm just trying to think of like the
motivations because one of the things that I learned with
the gen zers that we have, like these college kids
that we're dealing with, they have a miraculous ability to
navigate and put things out there and if you give
them the like the guardrails, they'll roll with it. And
(48:48):
so like for me my thought processes, this is like
go to a school system and say, hey, look, we're
going to get this club started. Your entire population in
your school is going to get internet safety training, peer
to peer training. By the end of this fiscal school year,
we do active shooter training. You know, and that's almost
(49:08):
said a bad word, but that is reactive. That's reactive.
It has already happened. How many victims, how many. That's
what I'd like to do is I'd like to put
out how many victims do you have in that community
in that timeframe. It's not like, hey, let's see if
we can take our time and get this start. Not
it's happening every day. And so why are especially after COVID,
these kids were left alone in the house. The schools
(49:30):
gave them a computer to go out there and connect,
but we who are they connecting to storm? Yes, And
so like with that in mind, like I don't feel
like there is a sense of urgency in our school
systems to say we have got to get out there
and get this information out there now. And here's here's
(49:51):
an entity that has invested a lot of time and
effort and have done it in a really wise way.
Let's push this information out there like this is this
is a critical type of and it is it is
critical because these kids, like every single day that one
of these kids sends a picture out there, they're a victim.
The kids that they send it to are victims. They
(50:13):
might not realize it until they're twenty twenty five years
old and they're like, oh my gosh, like that that
picture's still out there.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Oh well, when they're applying for jobs. Yeah, a majority
or a lot of all your larger companies now are
are checking their their social media accounts for sure. So
if they can put this program together the kids that
are driving it, they can certainly use that on their resume,
(50:42):
not only for.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Like, hey, I agree, I created this space for kids.
One hundred percent of the kids in this particular county
exactly have been educated on what needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
That's right, And tell me that won't look good on
your college So let me.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Ask you this. Let's say the school says like, no,
we're not want to do this because they have what
if this club met somewhere else, got the curriculum together
and then presented it to the school board January first.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Couldn't easily do that, sure, and then we.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Had to let them, let them go and say we
don't want our kids. These kids have worked really hard
on this project. This information is ready to flow out there.
Go ahead and tell them we're not going to let
We're not going to allow our students to have access
to this and be beautiful.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
It certainly would, and we will we will certainly support
support them from our office. One hundred percent, giving them
anything we can to help them.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
But that's not unreasonable, right, It's not unreasonable if we
found if we identify kids in a particular jurisdiction like that,
are like, hey, I don't want this to happen like
this happened to me. I don't want it to happen.
We need to we need to educate our kids. So
it's grade three through twelve.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
And we can even go to kindergarten with by using
the nets Mars program that we incorporate into Team Cyber Swat.
They have a program from K through six using animated
characters if you will, to help educate the kids, you know,
(52:15):
a clique and Mousey and different little animate that even
going down to because.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
That that's already done. That's already available, correct, that is available.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Everything we've got is available and ready to.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
But I'm saying on the SWAT, the Team SWAT requires
an investment of kids time to deliver it to the
grades below them. That other one, the K through six
is something that is available right now. You use you
can roll out the program and these kids have access
to it right.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
Well, everything is available right now, and the older kids
can go down into the k kindergarten through all the
way up to through twelfth grade, right.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
And all this is all this has like been vetted
with psychologists and everything else as being age appropriate and everything.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Tures.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
I don't like, Like I said, I I don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
I'd love for this program to go out in nationwide.
Your program to go out in nationwide and maybe you know,
get some folks thinking we've got to do something.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
I just intacted. I think all I think all we
need is we need some parents in some of these
jurisdictions that have been impacted by this to step up
to the plate and say, my kid has suffered from this,
but this is important enough for me that there's younger
siblings and other people are going to be in the
same situation this kid was absolutely so yeah, It's it's
(53:39):
baffling to me that I understand like divisiveness and everything else,
but like I don't understand, like when you clearly have
a problem, why it doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Parents are not realizing how how big of a problem
this is until something happens to them, are the loved
one or something hits news. Because this will never happen
in my town. That's the thinking.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
But the crazy thing about it is law enforcement will
tell you it already is already is happening.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
This is not you talk about the felonies. My goodness.
Number one, if you're going to take a photo, a
new photo of yourself, when you do that, you've just
produced child pornography, felony number one. Then when you send
it to somebody, now you've distributed it, that's felony number two.
When they send it to someone else, that person gets
(54:33):
hooked with a felony for distribution, possession and distribution. So
you know, these kids have to realize, and the only
way they're going to realize is somebody tells them right that,
But nobody's telling me.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Nobody's telling them after they make the mistake.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
I've been in schools, honestly, in high school assemblies where
I would ask the kids, how many of you know
what a felony is right your hand? And I would
get maybe ten to twenty percent right, And particularly in
the rural schools, I would say, well, how many of
you all like to hunt? And oh, my goodness, the
(55:14):
girls and the boys both, you know, the hands go up,
and I said, well, do you realize if you're convicted
of felony that you're right to firearms or will be
taken away. Oh no, And do you realize that sending
a nude photo is a felony and can be more
than one felony? And that gets their attention that okay, now,
(55:35):
now I don't want you to take my guns away,
right right? Do you know you're not gonna be able
to vote, you know? So it's all about awareness. It's
all about awareness, and we've got that tool for the
kids in the schools.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Well, for me, I appreciate you coming in and giving
us your time because, like for me, I just feel
like you have a solution. And it doesn't look like
anybody what I think people are seeing it, but the
sense of urgency isn't there.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Well, West Virginia is certainly seeing it, and boy, I
would rather be sitting here saying, man, Virginia is leading
the nation in this, but unfortunately West Virginia is taking
a lead on it, and Pennsylvania they're putting it in,
putting it in as well. They really wanted to be
the first, but we'd already promised West Virginia. So I
mean we're getting this message out. Uh, it's just slow.
(56:30):
It's a slow process. We've been We've been trying to
get it out for years.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Yeah, I mean like thirty years.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Unbelievable. Well, thank you for having.
Speaker 1 (56:39):
Me, absolutely helpful. No, it definitely has. I feel like
as a parent and as somebody that's in law enforcement,
to think that this resource has been there and we
haven't been able to use it, it's just it is
baffling and it The bottom line, and I'd say this
to anybody who listens to this program, is like, if
you think your kid is not access and some bad stuff,
(57:01):
you're living in a different realm of reality because because
your kids, your kids are accessing stuff they should never see.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
And if you're taking it in the phone away from
the kid at home, or not letting them see be
on a computer at home, they're going to go to
their friend's house, right, So they're gonna they're gonna have
access to it. I will close. I guess with this.
One of the FBI statistics is that if your kid
is online gaming, it's a chance they're going to be
(57:32):
approached by an online predator. So the key to that
is they need to know when they're being approached and
then what to do about it. Yeah, what it looks
like exactly, so it's familiar to them exactly, and then
what to do about it. And we've got we've got
to get out to these kids. Well, I appreciate the
time
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