Unleashing the Truth: The Realities of K-9 Work in Law Enforcement

In this compelling episode of Truth 4 Change, host Juette Renalds sits down with Reggie Oliver and Bryant "Lew" Lewelllyn for an in-depth conversation about life behind the badge and the unique world of K-9 policing. Reggie shares his powerful journey from serving in the Marine Corps to becoming a dedicated K-9 handler, while Lew reflects on his transition from college athlete to law enforcement officer. Both men open up about their experiences on the front lines, offering candid stories about the bonds they’ve built with their dogs and the extreme training it takes to prepare them for duty. The discussion goes beyond personal stories, diving into the broader challenges facing law enforcement today. From the pressures of proactive policing to the urgent need for public education about the complexities of police work, Reggie and Lew offer raw, informed perspectives that bridge the gap between officers and the communities they serve. This episode highlights the discipline, sacrifice, and heart that define the K-9 unit—and the human side of those who wear the badge.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Glad. I've got two of my favorite people in the
world here today inside my wife start with that, and
my kids top ten. So what I'd like to do is,
I've got a couple of my canine guys in here.
They mean the world to me, and I just I
feel like both of them have such great stories to
tell that I just wanted to bring them in here
and just like have a chance to kind of talk

(00:29):
about what they experienced in canine and continue to experience.
I also brought one of my explosive dogs. This is
Canine Biggie, and she's an explosive detection dog and I'm
already born her because she's yawning. But anyway, what I'm
gonna do is I'll kick it off. I'll kick it
over to Reggie kind of tell us, oh, I didn't
even introduce you. This is Reggie and Louellen, right lou Ellen,

(00:53):
but he's always Luellen to me, and that's Reggie to me.
So anyway, I'm gonna just just like dive straight into it. Red,
you tell us a little bit about yourself, where you
grew up and everything, and how you ended up in
this chair that you find yourself in today.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
A little bit about myself. Like you said already, my
name is Reggie. I'm from originally the New York, New
Jersey area. I spent most most of my childhood up there.
My mom and dad originally from Haiti. They came down
here and moved to New York, got married stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Down here up here. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
They came by playing, not by boat, so and legally
so they got married. I'm the I am now the oldest.
I didn't have an older brother, but he passed UH
when I was a small child. But i'm theest now.

(02:00):
I've got a sister and another brother, both younger than me. Obviously,
if I'm the oldest. I came to the Lynchburg area
because I tried to go to college. I made a
solid attempt and I failed. So I signed up for
the Marine Corps Reserves. Did the Marine Corps Reserves for

(02:22):
eight years, one toward to Afghanistan somewhere in there, and
then after that I started my journey in UH law enforcement.
I started at a detention center, then I went to
the academy and started as a police officer.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
So were in your career. Tell us about your canine stough,
How did you end up in canine? Of all things canine?

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I just I made your whole law enforcement career. You watch,
you know, you take interest in something that you enjoy,
and I enjoyed dogs, and I enjoyed one watching you know,
police officers work their dogs. I thought it was interesting, entertaining. Uh,
and it was definitely something from the beginning in my

(03:11):
law enforcement career I definitely saw myself getting into.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
So I started out as a bite pillow my canine
career put a now uh and that was the agency's
uh too toy.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Then I got my you know, an opening came open.
I got a shot at putting in for it. Then
I started my career and.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
We'll circle back to the canine thing. I think it's
really cool.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Reggie's being modest. He's probably one of the best decoys
I've seen for a while. And he's being modest saying
a pillow, but he moves around and does a great job. So,
lou tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
And yeah, So my name is Brian Bryan Lewelling.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
I grew up I was born in Greensboro, North Carolina,
grew up on a cattle ranch in North Carolina. If
I at yes, calvanure and angus beef percent. So if
I learned how to do anything as a child, I
guess it was I learned how to work, and so
that kind of kind of carried me through my life. Decided,
I guess, came up this way, decided I was going

(04:20):
to go to college like Reggie did. Uh, I ended
up going to college. I wanted to you know, wanted
to play sports and play football in college. So decided
to come to Liberty and came up this way, and
uh did that whole bit, and then, you know, kind
of law enforcement was always you know, kind of a
calling to me, something I always wanted to do, to
to serve in that way, in that capacity. And so

(04:41):
after I got done with the whole college football coaching
all that kind of stuff, I was like at an
holes of time, So I decided to make the move
to the law enforcement and come into it and ended
up getting to come and work for you and handle
a dog and do all all the great.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Things, the great things, the great things. And then there
was one and then there was one. All right. So Reggie,
I know you talked about your military career, in the
Marine Corps. Just talk about that a little bit. Talk
about your deployment kind of where you went and what
that what that experience was from you coming from what
New Jersey area to where Afghanistan.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, okay, my military career was something like I just
abruptly decided to sign up for it.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
That.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
It wasn't something that I always longed to do. It
was kind of like, I'm in college and I'm not
making it, so, uh, I should probably join the military
maybe to try to get some sort of experience for,
you know, to put on my resume, to make me
more appealing in the in the in the world of

(05:44):
you know, trying to find a job. So I signed
up for the Marine Corps reserves. I didn't necessarily want
to be a Marine. I literally went down to the
little recruiting station right and it was about twelve o'clock.
I tried. I tried the Navy's door. It was locked.
They were out to lunch.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Then I skipped over the Marine Corps door door, went
to the Army door. It was locked, they were also
out to lunch. And uh, I went to the Marine
Corps door and it opened and somebody was in there
and Uh, I pretty much told them that, you know,
I wanted to join the military. My intent when I
signed up was for the reserves, was to try to

(06:26):
continue my education in school. But you know that didn't happen,
especially once I uh deployed to Afghanistan half about about
halfway through uh the eight year contract that signed. But yeah,
I went to Afghanistan. Home in province. I was a
combat engineer. I was attached to a battalion of Marines

(06:49):
out of Hawaii.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
So tell us real quick for people that don't know
an engineer, sounds like you were building buildings and stuff. No,
that's not what you.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
No, it's more of like explosives, finding explosives, building explosives.
Was It's it's really a jack of all trades, right.
You go to combat engineer school and they teach you
a little bit of everything. They teach you how to
build stuff, how to build you know, bridges, how to

(07:18):
use tools, how to use chainsaws. But primarily our deployment
was uh locating I D s and uh you know,
calling E O D out, you know, putting those those
I ds out.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
So just a question, and I know we've never talked
about this. Did you ever seeing I did. I did.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
I did see the the the grunt battalion that I
was attached to, the infantry battalion I was attached to,
did have an explosive.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
It was a black lab.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
I couldn't remember what his name is, but yes, I
didn't experience that later on in my deployment. Initially in
my department and the beginning of my deployment, it was
just they gave us a mind sweeping stick and we
went out there and kind of just poked around until
something beated and then we moved back and did it

(08:07):
that point. Yeah, But then halfway through I moved to
a different part of Afghanistan and those group of infantry
men had it came unattached to it.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
So that was that was cool to describe you were in.
I mean, I know it's there's a lot of different
things in Afghanistan, but how would you describe it? The
g rated version of how I would describe it. Pg.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Thirteen, It was there was nothing nice about where I
was in Afghanistan.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Green or not very much.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
It was there was some green. They had fields, you know,
they had poppy fields and stuff like that. So I
mean they did you know, it wasn't farming area. They
did farm, but as far as like you know, obviously
roads weren't paved, dirt roads, no bathrooms.

Speaker 5 (08:55):
All located on patrol routes. Yeah, patrol rounds. So we
didn't have How old were you when you were over there,
twenty one?

Speaker 1 (09:04):
That's a pretty big thing. You pretty much had the
entire battalion or what did you have a company that
you were assigned to or a whole battalion?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
It was it was a company that I was assigned to,
but they did. They broke us up in those squad
sized elements.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
So you're reponsible for the safety of twenty thirty people
right at twenty one years old. And how long was
your training as an engineer? Three months? It's a lot
that packed it in. So yeah, for sure, anything that
you think when you were over there, anything in particularly
stood out in your brain when you after you went
over there and came back.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
I mean, I had a great time. It was fun.
It was by fun, I mean in a really crooked
kind of way, right, like nobody really wants to go
over to a war, but it was definitely a good experience.
I think it definitely played into the person I am today.
So It definitely was an eye opening experience. You know,

(10:02):
a war that had no end in sight at the
time when I was over there, and kind of just
people just rotating shipping in, shipping out, shipping in and
shipping out. And you know, so I did my stint
and another group of engineers came in took my place.
But overall it was a good experience.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
I think one of the most interesting things I think
about when I think about the military is if you
look at what we did in Afghanistan and what we
did in Iraq, and then you go back to the
wild West, we did the same thing. We had fortified
areas and you always got hit between the fords. It's
the same thing. The one difference now instead of errors,
you have explosions.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
You know, like my experience over there was when you
were fortified, you never got hit. It was always when
you were not fortified, was you know, when the Taliban,
if you will, would make it make attempts at you
and the individuals that were out there. But yeah, you're right,
I mean they are tried to find the weakest point

(11:03):
and uh so.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
So Lou talk about your experience at Liberty. I think
one of my favorite stories and we won't start with that,
but talk about talk about your experience in college athletics.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, so I you know, like I said, I grew
up in small town North Carolina, and so I was
the big fish in a small pond.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
So I was like, yeah, I can, you know, I
can go play Division one football.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Where do you talk about the Liberty that I went to.
We're like, we're talking about like you had some men
up there.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I'm not even not even not even
men like freaks of nature. Yes, So I went and
decided to walk on at Liberty. Uh, went there in
O eight, got cut from the team one time. Actually,
so I said, well, I got to work out harder,
and so it worked out harder, end up making the
team as a freshman. And then I remember the story

(11:51):
you're talking about the I played defensive line at Liberty.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
So I remember, how.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
What does the defensive linement at Liberty looks like in
two thousand and eight?

Speaker 3 (11:59):
In eight, most every d lineman was about six four
sixty five sixty six three hundred pounds two hundred and
nine five pounds the right, and they were like running
four six four seven forties, like just freaks of nature.
Absolute freaks of nature. So I remember getting up there

(12:19):
there was a lineman line up in front of me.
I was on scout team, which is like the you know,
the the practice squad guys, the p yeah, the pillow
the pillars of college football. Yeah, the bhite pillars of
college football. And so this offensive lineman lined up across
from his dude sixty five, three hundred and twenty pounds,
you know, one of the biggest humans I've ever seen
in my life. I'm like, you know what, I got this, Like,
I'm supposed to be here, supposed to be here.

Speaker 4 (12:41):
Put my hand down the ground.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
I remember the football was snapped and everybody disappeared, and
I was like, I have never seen a three hundred
pound man move that fast in my entire life.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
But You're like, I'm glad it didn't hit me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
I think I was supposed to do Yeah, yeah, I
was supposed to do something. But like, I don't know
what to do with my hands now. So I'm just
like I didn't have yeah, I didn't have pockets in
the in my in my football pants.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
I'm just standing there in the middle of the field,
like I.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Think, what's really interesting and interaction with you is just
your desire to get better both of you. But like,
how did college football mold you into the person that
always was pushing to get better, never accepting like tomorrow
is another day to get better?

Speaker 3 (13:19):
How did you adopt that absolutely, that that one percent
better every day mentality?

Speaker 4 (13:25):
Well?

Speaker 3 (13:25):
I learned quickly that you know, I wasn't the big fish.
You know, I'm not very athletic. I'm you know, just
kind of kind of middle of the road. And I
learned that if I work, you know, if I work
everybody else, then you know I'm gonna make it like
I'm gonna be successful. And that proved true in college
football for me. You know, I ended up going from
walk on to all conference demons alignment led to led
the conference and saxmon senior year as a team captain,

(13:45):
like got to do all those all those cool things,
and like literally it was just me, like I'm gonna
work harder than everybody.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Else for four years and then you know that stuff's
gonna pay off.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
So then you transition into like coaching and strength and condition.
Did I don't think people realize how much of a
science we watched the TV. If you watch it on
TV it's like Nascar. They look like they're moving fast. Yeah.
When you get down on the field, you're like, these
dudes are flying. Yes. Talk about like the prep work
that goes into getting these athletes ready, yeah, and all
the information that they have to collect and get the

(14:16):
good athletes.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Absolutely so yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
So I did the coaching stant I actually coached defensive
line at Liberty for three or four years, and then
I was a strength conditioning coordinator for the office and
defensive line at Liberty. And just like like you said,
the science and the like, people don't even realize, Like
you watch college football on TV and it's like, oh,
this is.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
Fun like game day, But like the hours that go
into that.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
I remember, you know, I put one hundred hundred and
twenty hours in a week, sleep in my office three
nights a week just preparing stuff, going out trying to
find kids, preparing programs for kids. Like I mean, you
would spend forty hours writing a program for the team
for a week. I mean you know, you'd put it
just as much time in it as as you would everything.
Everything is meticulously calculated. How much they're running every damn practice.

(15:00):
Everything's measured by GPS. Now everything is kept track of,
like the statistics on every single athlete. No guests work
at all. Everything is down to a science. I know
how much you're sleeping, how much you're hydrating, how much
running you've done this week, what I need to cut back,
what I need to increase. Everything is like percentage driven.
I mean it is literally a science. We had machines

(15:21):
that missered the speed of the bar, and so if
your bar was moving slower than it was last week,
we're going to dial you back. Or if your bar
was moving faster than it was last week, and we're
just talking about in workouts every day, then we're going
to dial you up because we're going to get the
most absolute most out of this athlete as you know
they can possibly produce.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
How does that so, how does that interpret like during practice?
Because the one of the things that I took my
son to like a lacrosse camp, and he couldn't believe,
like the precision that everything was the drills, everything, and
you didn't you either got it or you didn't get it.
Didn't spend any time, no, So talk about what happens
if you miss a workout or and and you're not

(15:57):
you don't go to the workout. What's what's going to
happen to you?

Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yeah, well that's not really an option.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
You know, we just we never had guys that miss
workouts because like it just just wasn't an option. The
you know, it was like the you're it's kind of
like that that you know, you're jumping on a moving
train and you know you either jump off.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
The train's not gonna stop for you. You know you
it's just gonna keep moving.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
And that's that's how college athletics works, like that, that
train's always moving, the team's always moving in a better direction,
everybody around you is getting better. So like, really the
option of missing a workout or or you know, missing
practice something like that just wasn't wasn't applicable because like
you could go from a starting player and then you
you know, you miss one practice and all of a sudden,
your full string like you're you're not seeing the field.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
So what kind of data would y'all collect? Like during practice?
Could you measure like how much their effort they're putting off?
You can actually measure.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Out, Yeah, so I could actually measure effort in practice, Uh,
measure g forces guys were obtaining. Uh we could measure
acceleration rates. We can measure how much how far people
were running, how fast they were running, what percentage of
their maximum effort that that speed that they're running at.
Was Like, it's it's incredible. And all that stuff is
all computerized and giving back to us in the form

(17:07):
of data.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Uh so you have to actually convert that information into
workouts and things. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
Absolutely, So you take all that information.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Just collected information, it's analyzing.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
It, analyzing it, and then what's the best way moving
forward to keep getting this person better?

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Brought my window looking, I see that. That's why they
put me in canine. They couldn't uh that way, they
couldn't tell which one of us was looking the window
was me or the dog. So anyway, so Reggie, just
talk about I know, I know both of y'all and
I've seen how you work, and I see all the
effort that y'all put into canine. Talk about what it

(17:42):
takes to be a decoy, Like, just talk about that
and talk about like it's it's not just the job.
It really is your passion and it's something that you
believe in. And I think I think all everybody always thinks,
just like in snipers. They think the guy that is
pulling the trigger is the is the man. It's not
the that's not the man, and it's your spot or
that's giving you win, your change and everything else. And

(18:03):
if we've got a really good patrol dog that's biting,
driving into the bite and everything that they're supposed to do,
they're doing it because they have an excellent decoy that
knows how the timing of the dog rewarding at the
right time. Just talk about talk a little bit about
that from a canine.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
You know, I'll say that like starting out my canine career,
I was taught, I was taught a way to decoy,
but the importance of a decoy was never really explained
to me until I had the opportunity to go to
a to a seminar and got to learn from probably

(18:40):
one of the.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Greatest decoys, the Bite Doctor.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
The science or the skill that goes into it. It's
not just about, uh, you know, putting a suit on
and standing there and waiting till the dog you know,
comes at you, and that there was a whole lot
more to it than just that. So obviously when I

(19:07):
first started, I mean that's all it really was, right
they put.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Me down, wiggling around and screaming when they bite.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Right, you know, you go stand down there fifty yards
I'm gonna send the dog. Once it gets close to you,
start running and just tuck your hands in the suit.
Don't get bit in the hand. To a to a
school where they taught us about bite dynamics, and you
know the different problems you may have with the patrol dog.

(19:36):
How to work those problems, how to make them better,
how to make them stronger. So it went from something
that was explained to me to be so simple to
something that is really not. Just you give you know,
the suit to the youngest calendar, you know, the canine
union and tell him to put it on, and if

(19:56):
he doesn't want to, then he's not meant to have
a dog. So, I mean, a decoy can make a
breakthrough patrol dog. I mean, in my opinion, it's definitely
it's definitely super important to have somebody decoy for your
dollar that knows what he's doing, because if you don't,
you can just make bad habits or you know, bad dynamics. Worse,

(20:21):
if if you don't have somebody that knows what they're doing.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
So what's the biggest lesson. It just kind of popped
in my head. You know, I am talk about our
experience that we had in Chattanooga. What's the biggest lesson
we learned about a dog? A free dog? What is that?
Do you remember going to Chattanooga and picking up a dog? Oh?

Speaker 2 (20:39):
You know one thing you have to understand about. You know,
Captain Renalds always be Captain Renalds to me. But it
is that when he gets this idea and of his
head of something, it's it's going to be very hard
to change his mind. So I say after that that

(21:00):
you know, he had the idea that you know, we
were going to get another dog, but this dog was
going to be a dog that if we can find it,
it's going to be free and we're going to train
them ourself, and we're gonna do it. And of course me,
I'm just like, hey, like, let's go, let's do it.
So he finds a dog. We get out there to Tennessee,

(21:20):
drive all the way out there and we see this dog,
great big old German shepherd, I mean, and I think
he was personal protection something like that, some competition dog.
So it already knew how to bite. We just had
to worry about if we'd be able to put you know,
narcotics work in them and tracking and everything else to

(21:42):
make him a patrol dog. So we go out there,
we test him out. Looks good, you know, obviously the
people that have it are singing his praise. Is the
best dog ever. You're not going to have any problems.
Like cool man, like awesome, like this is a blessing
in disguise, like I can't believe this dog that is

(22:04):
so great. It is going for free until we stop
and on our way back, and we're like, we're gonna
give this dog a little bit of a break and
let him use the bathrooms, and you know, do it.
Do it laces up and gets the dog out of
the car, and immediately the dog turns around and bites

(22:26):
the leash. And so we're sitting in the parking lot
of Burger King or some fast food joint and there's
cars everywhere, people standing outside, and do it's playing tug
of war with a German shepherd, a giant German shepherd
that we have no idea other than just meeting him.
I mean, obviously there's no bond or anything. The dog

(22:47):
doesn't know us from anybody else. But he's playing tug
of war with a leash in the parking lot of
this fat food joint.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
So somewhat limited with the corrections we could make in
front of.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
In front of a crowd. You know, we weren't going
to try to choke him off a leash or anything
like that. So we just let them win that day
and put them back up in the car.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
And then he attacked us again once we got to
the kennel, to the keels. We thought we was just
let him run around a little bit, and then he
tried to eat all of us. Yeah. So anyway, I'm
gonna get back to you on the thing with Buck
when we picked him out. Okay, talk about Odin when
we went and picked him out in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, so I got, you know, got the opportunity when
I made Caneine, I got to go and pick out
a green dog.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
You know, got to go up and.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Look at the green dog as opposed to the train.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
Green dog looks a green working dog, looks like an
absolute crackhead. They are absolutely crazy, you know, no no training.
I think when we get picked him up, they're like, yeah,
he's been on at least three times, so just all
over the place. You think about a working dog with
all of their drive and and everything they want to
do with no direction at all, just just absolute squirrel.

(23:56):
So that has sharp teeth and a big mouth. Actually
so so. But I got the opportunity to go up
and look at a bunch of different dogs and pick
out the dog that I thought was going to be
the best fit for me and the best fit for
you know, what we were trying to do at the time.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
So it was a really.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Really cool experience and like I said, got him green.
So had the opportunity to train him in the house,
and I think that taught me. Uh, I mean, it
taught me a ton about dogs, taught me a ton
about being a handler and all the work that went
into it.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
So I'm thankful for that opportunity to get to train him.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
And you know the thing I remember most about Odin is, uh,
they threw a toy in that detection exercise and he
took off run and they're like, I don't think he's coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
We put put him out in the field to do
a search drill and they threw a toy out there
and he just took off and they're like, well, I don't.
I don't know if he's gonna come back. We saw
him up on the next ridge half a mile away, like.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Maybe I don't know that would have been your dog.

Speaker 4 (24:51):
Yeah, yep, but he's gone, thankfully he did. He eventually
came back.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
So and I don't think people appreciate how big he is.
He's a big dog.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, he's mass big dog.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
And as big as you are. I remember when he
changed directions one time when you almost pulled you over.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, about about jerted me off his feet, off my feet.
He is a he's a big strong Doug.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Oudin's your dog, Reggie talk about Buck.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, I think Lou had a little bit of a
better experience of picking his dog than I did.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
But uh, tell us about why you.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Think that, because again I'll reiterate that when Captain Reynolds
has an idea in his head, it's it's not going
to be changed at all. So I very much believe
that he went into the selection of with the mindset
that I'm going to pick the hardest, fastest crackhead that

(25:44):
they have, and I'm going to give him to Reggie
because that is the dog that I got.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
You know. So they we.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Met at some building in Pennsylvania up in Shallow Creek,
and uh, you know, they march these dogs in here.
Of course, I don't know anything about dog selection at
this point, but Captain Reynolds does, considering he's been in
the game a while at this point. Yeah, something season salt,

(26:15):
the salt and salty. Yeah, so do it tells them
what we're looking for and a dog. You know, we
want to maybe be able to use them in the
tax setting and stuff like that. And you know, Jeremy
Riley at the times like, man, we got a couple
of dogs for you. So they bring in I think

(26:36):
Buck was probably the last dollar that they bought in.
But all the other dogs are bringing in. You know,
they're walking nicely on the leash and they're coming in
real nice, just gingerly walking, and you know, they show
us a little search, a little search, you know, the
hide the ball, have them search the room for the ball,
they find it. You know, Jeremy Riley puts a sleeve along.

(26:57):
We get to watch the dog bite. Then they bring
in the last dog, which is Buck, and the sky's
bringing him in and Buck is literally dragging this dude inside.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Of this building. I think we heard him coming.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's tongues hanging down to the ground.
I mean, just ninety pound muscular malonwah beast dragging the
sky in here. And uh, I think immediately immediately at
that point, Due it was like, yeah, this is a.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Dog that we need to get.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
It looks like him.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, And I think he tried briefly to blame it
on this sheriff we had at the time. The sheriff
only wanted a malainwah. But I call bs on that.
I think that Jewett just wanted me to how happy.
Though I am very happy. I think that the choice
that I got made me a pretty decent handler. And
I think if I would have ended up with any

(27:53):
of the other dogs, any of the other dogs, it
would have I wouldn't have benefited nearly as my much h.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Well, tell us that we'll roll right into you. Unless
you're your parts, then you can't continue. No, you're good, Yeah,
I'm good. So talk about talk about like one of
your canine operations. Since we picked out the dog, tell
us something that everybody told us, you definitely can't do this.
This dog. I've never seen a dog that could do this,
tell us your first two stories on your deployments that

(28:24):
we gave you.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
So the first story I'll talk about is again Captain
Reynolds is at the the tip of the spear.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Here. Uh, there's this this.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Wanted guy on on an island at a at on
a on a river that we have treasure island or whatever. Right,
So they got drones up and they obviously see this
this wanted guy that's on the island and there's literally
no way to get to this island obviously but by boat,
and uh, you know, Drew. It comes up to me

(28:55):
and I think I was out of school maybe two weeks.
Three weeks was a very short time, and looks at
me and says, have you and your dog ever been
on a boat? I'm like no, we didn't have boat
training at at Canaine school. And he said, well, are
you willing to get on this boat and go over
there with your dog to get this wanted guy. I said, well,

(29:18):
I guess we'll give it a shot. So game in
inland had a small boat and Buck and I got
on it. He did fabulous. We pull up on shore
and run in. Obviously they got flings his hands up
and gives up. But it ended up being great and
a great experience for me. I don't you know, it's

(29:42):
definitely something I can say my dog can do is
ride on a boat.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
I think the cool thing that you leave out is
the fact that the marshals were looking for him. This
dude had been breaking into places and I think he
had told people like you, I'm not going to be
taken alive and all this other stuff, and put a
lot of time and effort in and we took the
best team we had and send him in there, you
and Buck and it ended well. So absolutely paying ahead

(30:06):
of time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
So then my other one that was a search warrant
for another one a guy uh in the sticks of
Amerson County, and of course he was inside of his
house and you know, we walked in it. So what
Juwie says, there's something, you know, being done that they
didn't think it could be done. Was that the operation

(30:30):
was we were going to walk in before dark and
we were going to sit out there until he arrived
back in daybreak and then we would move in on
the house. So people questioned the fact of my dog
being able to sit quietly in the woods for four

(30:50):
or five hours and you know, not give any telling
signs that you know, law enforcement were in the woods
at the time, and obviously I quite as well, but again,
bucked a phenomenal job. I mean we sat out there
six hours in the woods and tree lines, and the
dog didn't move, didn't bark, didn't so I mean he

(31:12):
was operationally sound for sure. Still is. I've done a
few other operations since then. You know, I had to
sit in in the woods and the tree line very
close to the backyard of somebody's house and uh not
give away our positions.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
So yeah, so, but I mean it's not accidentally. You
pick a dog that you think is going to do
the job, and then you spend a lot of time
and effort training these dogs. It's not like you just
show up and hope for the best, right You spend
time with that dog every single.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Day, trying to continually train the dog to be operationally
sound at all times. And that's literally what we strive
to do. And I'll say that this is why that
you know, okaynine, it is not necessarily a job for everybody.
I mean, if you don't have the time and effort
to make sure that your your dog is going to
be operationally sound all the time and you probably shouldn't

(32:03):
have a dog.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Well, so we're not passing out T shirts.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
No, no, I like the fact that your dog is
a direct representation of you as a handler, Like that's
one you know fact, and you can see it and
you can.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Measure it and just climb.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
No no, no, you can see it and you can
measure it and yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Zero zero obedience. But if something goes boom, you'll fin
find it. That's all that matters in this, absolutely so.
But go talk a little bit more about that, like
how you applied what you learned in college football to
prepare like getting a dog ready and things like that.
And I think one of the biggest things I think
is how brutally honest you have to be with yourself,

(32:42):
Like that was really a poor performance on my part.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Absolutely so.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
I mean that's the same thing and like any performance
driven you know thing that you do, Like I've you know,
had the opportunity to perform in a lot of different
sports and athletics and stuff like that, and canine is
just like that, Like you're you're training like at you
as a handler, but it's also your dog and that
dog is a direct reflection of the time and effort
that you put into him. And so like, you know,

(33:08):
obviously you want to pick a good dog, but at
the end of the day, that that how good that
dog is and how operationally sound is, like Reggie was saying,
is up to you and up to the work that
you're that you're willing to put in each and every day.
And that's the cool thing about these dogs. One of
the things I love about Canaine is like you're with
that dog all the time. A dog lives with you.
He rides with you at work twelve hours a shift,
or sits in your lap while you're doing podcasts. Sometimes

(33:32):
mine mine wouldn't sit in my lap I was doing
a podcast, but he'd be over here looking for something, tearing,
tearing something up over there. But yeah, and so like that,
you know that that bond I guess you have with
that with your dog where he's with you all the time,
he's your constant partner.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
You're constantly training, trying to make him better and putting
that work in.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
And you know, like Reggie said, if you're you know,
you're not a person that's willing to do that, then
I mean, sure you can be a handler, but you're.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Not gonna be a very good one of your dog's
not gonna.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Be very good. You're doing disservice to the dog.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
You really are doing a diservice to the dog and
disservice to the people that you know. This dog is
supposed to be helping.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
So so the cool thing for us is when all
this stuff drops, the cool thing is we're going to
be able to show everybody the buck prance. Yeah, video
of that does.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
He does.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
He's very nice. So along those lines, let's talk about
I think we adopted kind of a slogan for ourselves
as canine handlers and as individuals, and that is like,
we pushed the failure, So we're going to push that
dog absolutely as far. I feel like I see handlers
all the time that they have a dog and they're like,
we're going to kind of have a treaty. I'm not

(34:39):
gonna make you do too much and that way you
won't bite me, you won't cause me problems. But that
dog's never really challenged. So what does it mean to
push the failure and then train pass. Yeah?

Speaker 3 (34:50):
You see that a lot, I think, especially in Canaine,
I've got to see a lot of different handlers and
a lot of dogs that people will kind of hide
hide their dogs, hide their flaws, you know, they won't
do things that they know their dog's not good at,
or they'll you know whatever, and like it's it's widespread,
like for the most part. And so I guess one
thing I learned, you know, working with you you two
fine gentlemen. And and also like from my previous experiences

(35:13):
with you know, performance stuff is like you have to
push those failure points. Like so if I find out
my dog is not good at something, guess what we're
gonna do every day, multiple times a day, all the
time until my dog is good at that, right, Because
that is pushing to your failure point, Like you know
that the famous line like you're you're not gonna rise
to the occasion, You're gonna fall to your lowest level
of training. And so that is a one hundred accurate

(35:36):
in life and one hundred percent accurate in canine handling.
And so if you don't ever push your dog and
make him do things that you you probably uncomfortable as
a handler because nobody likes looking like a like a
like a wet bag of hammers.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's a good one. Yeah, I've seen some of your
T shirts. That might be more, that might be a
better one. Ye. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
So you know, no one likes looking like that, no one.
You know, no one wants to go out there and
get embarrassed because their dogs not on something butt. That's
what train is for. That's why we're out there. That's
literally why we're out there doing stuff. Because when you know,
my number gets called or my dog's number gets called,
and we're expected to perform on an operational level and
you know, potentially save lives or you know, get criminals

(36:15):
off the street, then you better you know, you're gonna
know my dog's ready, because that's that's my responsibility.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
So that goes right with the story. I love the
story because I was in it. But anyway, besides that,
what I really like talk talk about the time that
we give you the mission impossible. I want you to
sneak up underneath the trailer. YEA extraction.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, so we're on a Yeah, we're on like a
joint tack vice operation came out, so we deploy. They're like,
we're gonna deploy in the woods. So we hiked in
from the back. We hiked like two or three miles
in from I had a couple of snipers from a
joint jurisdiction attached or I was attached to them, or
they were attached. We were attached together. We made a

(36:56):
little team and so our obviously we're gonna observe and
then and we were gonna be the the takedown team
once this guy extit to the trailer, because there was
a bunch of mething there and so and when I
say trailer, this thing was like a tin can had
holes all in it, Like I mean, this was probably
a camper.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
From nineteen sixty eight and it looked like it wheels.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, yeah, it had been out in the weather since
nineteen sixty eight. But anyway, so we hiked two or
three miles through the woods and kind of the same
thing Reddie was talking about there, like, you know, the
team I was with there, like your dog is gonna
be quiet, Like he's gonna be able to sit in
the woods, and like we're gonna be able to wait
so like and like obviously we have no idea when
this guy is coming home, you know, when when we're
gonna be able to get him all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
And so I was like, yeah, he'll be good. We
work on this. So we're all we're camoed up. We're
hiking through the woods.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
We hike up to the woodline behind this trailer, and
there is like garbage everywhere back there, and so we
have to get into a position like obviously I can't
take this dude down from you know, twenty five yards
out thirty yards out because I'm not in a position
to get hands on him or or you know, ensure
the safety of everybody around there. And so I'm like, well,
we got to get you know, we got to get closer.
We got to get get closer to that trailer. And

(38:07):
so I'm like, if we go through this trash, so
it's gonna make a lot of noise. Like there was
like illuminum cans scattered about. I was like, this is
like a like a noise maker.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
So the methods, uh yeah, security system.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
Yeah, the method security system. You know, miss miss missed.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
A few trips to the dunk. You will not you'll
not trip wires everywhere. Yeah, beer cans. So I was like,
we got to get closer to the trailer. And so
I'm like sitting there thinking, my my, I got my
dog in the harness and so I'm like, I'm just
gonna pick him up, and I'm gonna sneak through the
cans and just carry him by his harness so that
we don't make noise. And so I picked picked my

(38:44):
dog up, and the dudes are like, how this dog,
he's about eighty five pounds, And so.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
You curled an eighty five pound dog.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
Yeah, I had my rifle on one hand and my
dog and the other. And so I'm tiptoeing through these cans.
It's probably I wish I had it on video because
it's probably hilarious looking.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Tiptoeing through these well we have I think we had.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yeah, I think we did have a drone up in there. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
And so I'm tiptoeing through these cans with my dog
and I just like hear the dudes in the back
just kind of snickering a little bit, the sniper team
snickering a little bit. And so like, we end up
getting up underneath this trailer, and I doubt him literally
literally literally underneath the trailer because there's no cover anywhere,
no cover consuming anywhere else, just this trailer sitting out
or surrounded by cans. And so so I'm literally like

(39:24):
all right, well, this is the only spot. When he
comes out of his door, like, we're gonna we're gonna
have to get underneath this trailer. So we I run
up to the front of the trailer, set my dog down,
I squeezed my big old tail underneath the little nineteen
sixty eight camper, and we're sitting there waiting on this
guy to step out the door. As soon as he
steps out the door, you know, we pop out and
ended up getting him. But it was just a funny.
Was he surprised to see He was very surprised to

(39:44):
see me? Actually is Yeah, I know, I know, he's like, man,
I've never had anybody sneak through the cans.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah. I think I do think that people take for
granted that these dogs are just like automatic. I told
Advisor I had one time. I was like one. Until
we figure out how to install that on off switching
their ass to flip on and off, we have to
train because if we don't train, they're not going to
be good. And so one of the proudest moments for
me with y'all, honestly, was the time we were at

(40:15):
that seminar and all the other dudes, all the other
kids were at the playground looking good, doing their little things,
and where were we at? We were getting humbled by
what was that decoy? That decoy? Remember the decoy that
we went over to. So talk about talk about that
real quick. Like the school that we went to, that uh,
that seminar we went to where everybody else had all

(40:37):
the things where they would just send their dogs on
an operation. It was really it wasn't easy, but you
can't really make that much of a mistake. You send
somebody running, the dog is going to go bite them.
So what did we what did? What did we end
up doing? We went to the line that nobody was
at the ride. Nobody wanted to be on the hardest ride,
the huh the hardest ride, Yeah, talk about the hardest ride.

(40:58):
So we went to a sat a seminar. The humbling.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Went to a seminar put on by a Canine Law
and Order throwaway dogs And it literally is a free
to the agency seminar that's paid for by sponsors. So
it didn't cost us any money. I mean I think
we had. We had to pay for a cabin to
stay in, but other than that, there's a priceless training

(41:27):
literally for free for us to go to. So they
had it's about sixty sixty some dog teams, seventy some
dog teams there from all over and you know, they
set up they've got this big it's like a wild
wild the West kind of type feeling that this came
Frontier Towns what it's called.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
So they've got a whole bunch of scenarios set up
in there. They've probably got thirteen fourteen decoys in there,
and it literally is just like a playground for dogs.
You go for one star, right, you go from one
scenario to another, another another. But then up at the

(42:09):
top of the hill Frontier town they uh n c
K nine had their bite table set up and you
literally go up there and you strap your dog to
the table and he let the decor work and he
gives you his honest opinion about your dog.

Speaker 4 (42:26):
Probably one of the best best decoys out there too.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, definitely, he gives you an honest opinion. Whether it
hurts your feelings or not, He's going to give you
an honest opinion about what your your your dog can
do cannot do, where you need to improve and do better. So,
you know, like we talked about before, us it's a
lot a lot of times people want to hide behind,

(42:48):
you know, hide their dogs and their their abilities because
they don't want to be humbled. But the thing that
we always did as a unit was we always put
ourselves in situations when it came to training to humble us.
Whether it was we went outside to a seminar, whether
we you know, trained ourselves, we always got gave our
honest opinion about our dogs. And when we got an

(43:10):
honest opinion it was an issue that needed to be corrected.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
We worked until we corrected it.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
And a lot of people, a lot of people don't
want it's it's not what they want. They want to
be told that, hey, that was a good job, you
have a great dog, put them out. But me personally,
I want you to tell me where my dog sucks
at so I can make them better. I mean, that's
that's how it's always been, and that's how it is
to this day. I put my dog on the table
and you tell me what I'm doing wrong and how

(43:36):
I can fix it, and we're going to train till
it's fixed.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
So what did you think about that? I mean you,
how long did you had at that point?

Speaker 4 (43:44):
We went it was less than a year. I think
when when I first first.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Bond, I mean didn't you didn't I mean you did
have a really strong I mean you still have a
strong bond. We won't talk about the long day that
we had. Yeah, well still that's still my record on
steps looking for your dog, But that's a story for
another different different days requires some bourbon to get through it.
So anyway, just talk about like what you thought was
a new handler being part of the team that we
had and coming in there and being like, oh, he's

(44:12):
not gonna let us ride the cool ride. He's gonna
he want And the thing is, it wasn't me asking
you to do it. I think I was like, hey,
let's try this. I think once we evaluated our dogs,
were like, this is where we need to be.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because that guy from NC Canine what's
his name, Jim O'Brien from.

Speaker 4 (44:30):
Jim O'Brien shout out one of the best. He really is, No,
he really is.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Don't take your feelings with you at all. If he
will hurt them, he will hurt them. If you have feelings, yes,
he hurt mind and I don't have any. And he
wasn't even talking to.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
But yeah, so we were like we're like, hey, there's
nobody at the stable, like I know, this guy's legit,
Like let's let's go. Like, you know, I'm still a
new handler at this point, still learning my dog, still
learning you know, canine handling in general, and so I
was like, let's, you know, absolutely, let's go try this.
So we go and try it, and he's like, hey, this,
this and this, Like I was like absolutely, Like that's

(45:06):
how I get better, Like I don't I don't need
a yes man telling me, oh, your dog's great, and
like just like Reggie said, you know, all this stuff
like having a yes man just creates apathy and so
it's not, you know, not what I want. And so
I'm like absolutely, like he's telling me this this, this
is wrong with my dog, and this is wrong with
my dog, and you know, this is wrong with my dog.
And that's that is Knowledge is power, and so you know,
if I have the knowledge of like these things are

(45:28):
wrong with my dog, then then that's things I can
correct and my dog is going to be better. Like
that's no, it's not an insult, like you want, yeah,
you want people to tell you what's wrong with your dog,
Like it's not it's not saying, oh, your dog sucks,
Like maybe your dog does suck.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
That's good.

Speaker 4 (45:41):
That means you can get better at something and your
dog's gonna be better as a whole.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
And so you know, I want those those failure points
pointed out, and so you know, we went and did that,
and I was like, I remember you saying like, we
need to stay over here, and I'm like, we do
absolutely need to stay over here, because we got a lot,
a lot to learn and a lot to uncover here.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
I think were selling our dogs short. Realistically, we're not
talking about like your average run of the mill. Tell us,
do you remember all the stuff that he did to
our dogs to get him to like, let go through milk,
crates at him, put him underwater probably like these dogs,

(46:22):
but yeah, go ahead talk about that.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
It was just pretty much the whole point of the
time we spent up there was again to find a
failure point of the dog. And I remember putting Buck
up there and he literally reached under and scratched underneath
the jaw.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
The dog, we're talking about, a hard, biting, hard charge
and not scared of anything, would jump on top of
a car to bite you and what he took.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
A letter, tickled underneath the jaw or there was a
part of the dog that he touched, and Buck literally
split the suit out.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
And this was the tail, wasn't it.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Yeah, yeah, to touch his tail. And he's like, oh
I don't like that. Wait a minute, I'm like good,
good to.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
So literally he's like, well, go put your dog back
in the car, give him a break to think about,
you know, him spitting it out, and we'll come back
and do it again. Sure enough, gave him a break,
came back out and did it again, bucked into it.
So it was all about making the dog feel uncomfortable
to the point where he no longer wants to engage,

(47:27):
said suspect, which is the man in the suit. So
uh yeah, there was you know, milk crates. There was
a pool he dun't you know. He put the dog
in the water to see if water would bother him.
He had a you know, two gallon jug of water
and poured it over the dog's head to see if
that will get him off. So I mean it was
just just again trying to push your dog to a

(47:49):
port of failure. And you know, he gave us pointers
how to correct it to make sure that, hey, this
is not an issue that you run into on the street,
because if you run into on the street might have
a different outcome than here.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
And training. Yeah, I mean it is really one of
those old expressions is you know, more sweat on the
training field, less blood on the battlefield, and let's find
their failures. Now. I mean, you used to have dogs that,
like I remember the first dog I have old hammer there.
I'm pretty sure that an alien could come down and
he would still bite it. But that was just the

(48:24):
vet told me he had a feral gene. He would
do anything. And but like, not all dogs are like that, Like,
even with all the drive that they have, they still
have something that they need to work through. And I
feel like it's our job as handlers to put them
in that, you know, expose them to something that they
might see because we're failing them.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
If we've been them in a situation already, it's our
job to find that and push them past it.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
So one of the things I really want to talk
about is while we're talking about pushing the failure, let's
talk about the occupation that we've decided on as far
as law enforcement, Like what do we not pushing. What
what can we do in law enforcement to get better?
Like I feel like we think the general public wants
us to do this. They want us to be soft,

(49:07):
they want us to make them feel good about themselves.
But yet then they'll they'll chastise us when that same
person that made you feel good on a traffic stop
stood outside and watched your kids get slaughtered inside.

Speaker 4 (49:17):
Of a school.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
They're connected. There's very few people that are going to
go into that, just like these dogs as far as exposure,
like you know, they aren't made like that, they're not made.
There's very few people left in this profession, I feel like,
and it's discouraged people that will go in there and
take care of what needs to be taken care of.
So let's talk about our profession. I know I'm I

(49:39):
can retire any day, so I'm a little freer. Reggie
has to be a little careful. Lou let it rip.
I'll let it rip, all right.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
So, uh, I think, like you said, I think the
culture nowadays encourages that like soft, nice guy, like have
a positive experience, like yeah, that that's and that's fine,
Like you should be able to do that, Like you
should be I love the phrase you should be a savage.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Gentleman like you gotta have you gotta have both.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
You gotta have the you know, the ability to flip
that switch, because, like you said, when it's encouraged, you know,
and that that stuff is pushed like to have a
positive experience. You know, it goes back to the old saying.
You know, I'd rather be a warrior and a garden
and a gardener in a war. You know, you don't
want gardeners out there going going to war for you
if you you know, because the job, you know, you're

(50:31):
not gonna win that war. And when that war is
you know, our kids and our safety of our public,
then then that's something important to then you know, that's
something we have to consider most definitely, because yes, you're
gonna be you know, a community servant and you're gonna
you're gonna do all these things, but you've got to
have the right people, you know, in those positions. And
I feel like it's discouraged in today's law enforcement to

(50:51):
those people are pushed.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Out, the ones.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
That, yeah, the ones that that that play it safe
and and you know, do things the way that is
being encouraged nowadays. You know, get to stick around the
ones who you know, your your go getters and your
your you know, your warriors, you know in the garden.
I guess so to say, uh, really get pushed out
because it's it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to people, it's uncomfortable

(51:16):
to administrations, it's uncomfortable to you know, a lot of
different people. Because you know, those people create I think
there's a sense of apathy in law enforcement as a whole,
and those people shine a light on that, and so
it's like a mirror to that, that apathy, and so

(51:36):
that you know, that mirror effect, I guess pushes those
those people out and then before long, you know, I
think if we continue in this direction, you're.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
Gonna have.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
You know a lot of people in law enforcement that
probably shouldn't be that are not you know, don't have
that that warrior mindset and that warrior mentality, and like.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
I mean, that stuff can't be trained.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
But if we're not training it, then you know, and
and buying buying large, we're not you know, we're not
encouraging it. And so that is you know, you're going
to have those those situations where you know, we got
a school shooter and we got everybody standing outside and
nobody's willing to go in because they're not prepared for
that moment.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Yeah, they haven't been exposed to it.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
I know.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
I'll give your your boss a shout out. I mean,
former TAC guy gone out, been there, done that, it's
got the T shirt. I think he's actually taken rounds
before your your boss. And so you know, I think
that's that's a really cool thing for you. But you
also see the hiring process, Reggie, and you also see
look as discreetly as you can talk about it, just

(52:40):
just in general, let's talk about this. It's an easy
way to talk about it. Talk about what you see
in the academy with these the newer recruits, and what
you see and what what is what is most concerning
you as a seasoned officer as far as the state
of our occupation. The thing could be just the general
public in general doesn't understand what we do. This.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
It's it's the standard. The standard that we are setting
for individuals coming into this profession is below par very
like far. I mean, we're you know, and it's no
and you know, I don't want to cast blame on anybody,

(53:22):
you know, I don't.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
I think there's a lot of things that we can't control, right.
I think it's got a lot to do with the generation.
I think it's got to do a lot with, you know,
the upbringing of the people. You know, this generation that's
coming in to law enforcement now that you don't have.
They're not making, you know, making the hard charging, you know,

(53:47):
curb stopping goons like that come out and and and
pound the pavement. It's and so I think that they
are dealing with what they're being dealt and because of it,
I think the standard for what we look for and
a law enforcement officer has gone down.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
So you deal with the public more than both of
us do at this point. What do you think the
public's expectation of us at this point is, I mean,
in all honesty, like based on what you see now,
I'm not talking about the loud group of people. I
feel like, for me, I see a lot of people
that are frustrated with government, big government, all these different
things that go with it. And since we were wearing

(54:30):
a uniform and representing government, we're lumped into it in
their disappointment. But I think if we did a better
job of explaining what we are there for, and that
they might not like the way it looks, but it
is part of who we are and the culture that
we have created, which is we're here to protect you.
And if you down on one one and we have
to come to your house, it's not because y'all figured

(54:52):
it out. We're there because we're settling a dispute. The
last time I watched an athletic event, the referee didn't
ask somebody's opinion when they made a call on anything.
And in the same way, I think, can we like,
what's your experience with the general public, Like, in just
in very general terms, what is their expectation of us
in law enforcement? Now what we're putting out there? What

(55:16):
do you think they really want? They want?

Speaker 2 (55:19):
I mean that I honestly just think the general public
wants to fix their problems, Okay, I mean that.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
It really is.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
There are a lot of issues that we get called
to assist with that aren't even law enforcement.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
That's just give us some one example of something that
like you, I mean not like in particular people, but
just in general, like what kind of call for services?
You're like, Hey, this isn't this isn't this isn't we're
not the best tool to use for this.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
My husband took my car and won't bring it back.
I mean, you know, simple things like that, like simple,
you know, disputes that you think, as an adult, you'd
be able to figure out yourself, which is I guess
a big ask right for people to actually have an
issue and say, hey, let me pony up and handle

(56:09):
this myself. Yeah, being adults, I think that you know,
a lot a lot of these call for services, you
know that we get called for by the general public,
orange or calls that require, you know, us necessarily save
someone's life. We do get those calls, but I'd say
the majority are you know, my dog ate my homework,

(56:33):
and you know, fix fixed? Can you fix it?

Speaker 1 (56:36):
You think that's a mentality that's been sold to the
general public about government, that is like, hey, the government's
supposed to fix everything. I'm always I'm always amazing taxes,
Like we pay all this taxes, we overpay, and then
we're really happy that they gave us our own money back.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
I think I think a lot of it is just
people are just literally like I can't fix this problem,
so the cops can fix it for me.

Speaker 4 (56:59):
Yeah, people are generally helpless.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Just generally like, I don't know how to make my
kid go to school, So I'm just gonna call nine
one one and the CoP's gonna come over here and
make my kid go to school.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Okay, so let's go back to like a training side.
I've never been thrown throat punched by Malley like that,
but thank you I have at the time. You get
a throat punch by Malley. I think I said that
video to you the other day. That was pretty funny.
The muscle the muscle dude, that looked very painful. I

(57:32):
don't know that you got up. Yeah, definitely I had
to take a break. But no, Like, from my standpoint,
what I look at as far as in law enforcement,
is it that we're not educating the public about what
our responsibilities are or you know, what, what can we
do in this occupation? What can I mean? One of
the reasons why I decided to do a podcast like

(57:53):
this is just a I just feel like the general
public doesn't know what we do, and there there's not
a voice out there saying, hey, this should be your expectation,
like when we I really have the core of my
being believes that what is going to happen in this
in law enforcement, and what we're doing is you're going

(58:15):
to have to decide we can either go out there
and interdict people before they go into your house and
commit an act of violence, and that interdiction might involve violence,
and it's probably going to be captured on camera. It's
either going to be captured on my body camera or
it'll be captured by somebody who's going to get one
angle of it. And I think if we educate the
general public and say, hey, this is a violent age

(58:37):
that we live in, you know, and let's let's go
out and interdict them before they get to your home,
I mean, what's like from y'all standpoint?

Speaker 3 (58:45):
I think from my experience in my career, it's what,
you know, I don't think that we we don't educate
the general public very well as a as a you know,
as a profession as a whole on what we're actually
there for. And then it's also what we allow, so
you know, we allow, you know, those in leadership allow
our officers to get tied up on the simplest things

(59:07):
like going and solving you know, adolescent problems essentially that
you know, because and I understand, we worked, you know,
a lot of us worked worked or worked for uh,
political figures and elected officials and things like that, and
like you want the general public to be happy, But like,
what's going to make the general public happier the fact
that you came out there and and dealt with their

(59:27):
you know, little Johnny not going to school, or the
you know, or that like I can't get my paperwork
settled with my title for my vehicle, which is really
not law enforcement related but takes up a ton of
our time. Or like you said, you want us going
out there and actually interdicting criminals and taking care of
crime problems. People you know that are out there to
still kill and destroy I guess, you know, innocent people.

(59:51):
And I think if we I think, as a as
a profession, if we educated the general public, and like
that's a great I think lesson for sheriffs, you know,
if you you know sheriffs and your constituents, because that's
small time, small time government, Like you get to interact
with those people every day, like like you know, you
can very easily sell you know, not sell, but like

(01:00:13):
educate those people on like hey, like we would love
to come and help you and we would love to
you know, be there in ten minutes to come and
solve your civil issue. But like my officers are out
here actually you know, fighting crime and getting yeah, trying
to prevent crime.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Absolutely, Like I would rather than take a you know,
take a report, you know, for a stolen car.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
I would rather go and catch that guy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Before he steals those cars because a lot of those
guys are out doing other criminal activities. And we can
do that by being empowered to you know, do our
job the way that that we know we can do
it and that you know, without being I guess sidetracked
all these other things.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
What's your thought, Rogie, I have no comment.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
No, I mean I have I have comments. I think
I think that, uh, educating the general public would be
very beneficial as to what a law enforcement what you're
to expect out of a law enforcement officer, what a
law enforcement issue really is, what the use an imen
one it's really for, and what we are doing out

(01:01:19):
there that they don't see, because sometimes, you know, you
have people that think that we're out there and we
don't do anything. So there are things that happen behind
scenes that they don't necessarily are privy to the information
that we're you know, in order to do things to
keep the community safer. But yeah, I mean, I definitely
think that educating the general public as to what we

(01:01:44):
do as law enforcement would be very beneficial.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Yeah, I mean, I just I really do believe. And
it just it irks me so much to see us
responding mass. I mean, we do such a great job
of responding after something happens. Let's have a conversation about
how we prevent these things from happening. If I stop
a car with a gun in it, there's a chance

(01:02:08):
that I might have to shoot that person or fight
that person. But that's part of it as opposed to
she's got other ideas as opposed to like we're just
gonna let that car ride and let them determine where
the next criminal activity is.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
We're gonna avoid that situation because.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
It's we have almost like an avoidance mentality. I think
about during COVID, all the crap that we had to
go through, you know, we were taking calls and standing
in people's front yards talking to them, you know, and
dealing with their domestics and everything else. And I just
I just think that if we as law enforcement did
a better job of saying, like, look, this is what
our job is. This this violent encounter that you're sitting

(01:02:45):
there with your hands over your face, and I don't
think most people have their hands over their face going
like I can't believe that happened. I feel like most
of them are like, thank god it wasn't me. I'm glad,
I'm glad I didn't get you know, I'm glad I
didn't get beat. I'm glad I didn't get shot. But
I think the general if we did a better job
of educating them about like what our job is keeping
them from the you know, the calls that probably are

(01:03:06):
not the best utilization of law enforcement and just say hey,
I'm sorry, Like this guy might have like a lot
of other things on his plate, and he might hurt
your feelings when he talks to you, but he's also
going to be that person in there that rescues your kid,
as opposed to hoping somebody else shows up because they're
not going in there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
I mean, I think anybody would would tell you that
in this profession that it has just literally become more
reactive than proactive.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
It's there are so many people like you, the two
of you that know how to be proactive. And I mean,
I think we talked about before. It's usually ice and subourbon,
you know, discussions, But like I do think about when
we talk about like some of the operations that we
were being part of, and they were all proactive law enforcement.

(01:03:53):
That guy that you were talking about where your dog
was out in the out sitting out there for six hours,
that was a guy that was iron guns. If you remember,
it was a bunch of straw purchase guns that we
had a concern that he was going to use them
in a violent encounter, and so you interdicted them. His girlfriend,
if you remember, his girlfriend was getting money and like

(01:04:15):
was buying a ton of guns. She's like, yeah, So
I don't know. I just what I would like to
wrap it up and just say, like, I do appreciate
what y'all do. I know it's frustrating. It's frustrating for me,
and I've been around for a while. For a minute,
I've been around for a minute, but like y'all are

(01:04:36):
no cap no cap So I do think y'all are
the future in law enforcement. I just I just hope
that we find a way to communicate with the general
public better educate them, maybe find a dog that will
sit still. I thought for sure she would sit still
at some point. But like, find find ways to have
conversations with people and preparing for what they're going to see,

(01:04:56):
because I do think it's very safe to say that
most people are not satisfied with law enforcement at all,
and maybe we should have conversations on like, hey, this
is what your expectation is. You'll be satisfied, but there's
gonna be a few people that are going to be
disappointed because it hurts their feelings.