June 11, 2025 • 46 mins
What you don’t know about living with sleep apnea could really be hurting you. It could even end your life! And, surprisingly, many people who have this common condition are not even aware of it. Today, Mr. Kirk Huntsman joins Lisa to discuss, in depth, what everyone needs to realize about sleep apnea and why it’s such a potentially dangerous condition to live with. Is it possible you could have it, but not even know? Lisa and Kirk will share key information to help you identify some of the telling signs to help determine if you should be tested. They also discuss the overlooked link between sleep apnea and Alzheimer’s disease, why treating sleep disorders is essential for cognitive health in older adults, how aging impacts airway health, what options are available if you are living with it that could ultimately save your life, and much, much, more.
You definitely won’t want to miss this life-altering episode!
About the Guest:
R. Kirk Huntsman is a co-founder of Vivos Therapeutics and has served as the chief executive officer and a director since September 2016. In June 2020, he was elected chairman of the board. In 1995, he founded Dental One (now Dental One Partners), which, as president and chief executive officer, he grew to become one of the leading DSOs (dental service organizations) in the country, with over 165 practices in 15 states. After a successful sale of Dental One to MSD Capital in 2008 and subsequent merger in 2009 with Dental Care Partners, Mr. Huntsman was appointed in 2010 as chief executive officer of ReachOut Healthcare America, a Morgan Stanley Private Equity portfolio company. In 2012, he founded Xenith Practices, LLC, a DSO focused on rolling up larger independent general dental offices, which was sold in 2015. From January 2014 to September 2015, Mr. Huntsman founded and served as chief executive officer of Ortho Ventures, LLC, a US distributor of certain pediatric oral appliances with applications for pediatric sleep-disordered breathing. Since November 2015, he has served as the chief executive officer of First Vivos, Inc., which is now our wholly owned subsidiary. He was also a founding member of the Dental Group Practice Association (DGPA), now known as the Association of Dental Support Organizations (ADSO). He is the father of Todd Huntsman, who is a SVP at Vivos and runs the Product Development and Manufacturing Division. He holds a BS degree in finance from Brigham Young University.
About the Host:
Author Lisa Skinner is a behavioral specialist with expertise in Alzheimer’s disease and related dementia. In her 30+year career working with family members and caregivers, Lisa has taught them how to successfully navigate the many challenges that accompany this heartbreaking disease. Lisa is both a Certified Dementia Practitioner and is also a certified dementia care trainer through the Alzheimer’s Association. She also holds a degree in Human Behavior.
Her latest book, “Truth, Lies & Alzheimer’s – Its Secret Faces” continues Lisa’s quest of working with dementia-related illnesses and teaching families and caregivers how to better understand the daunting challenges of brain disease. Her #1 Best-seller book “Not All Who Wander Need Be Lost,” was written at their urging. As someone who has had eight family members diagnosed with dementia, Lisa Skinner has found her calling in helping others through the struggle so they can have a better-quality relationship with their loved ones through education and through her workshops on counter-intuitive solutions and tools to help people effectively manage the symptoms of brain disease. Lisa Skinner has appeared on many national and regional media broadcasts. Lisa helps explain behaviors caused by dementia, encourages those who feel burdened, and gives practical advice for how to respond.
So many people today are heavily impacted by Alzheimer's disease and
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa Skinner (00:00):
Lisa, hello everyone. Welcome back to another brand new episode of the truth, lies and Alzheimer's show. I'm Lisa Skinner, your host, and today we have a very special guest, and I'm really excited that he's here to talk about this very, very important topic, and I've talked about it before on my risk factors episodes, because it happens to fall under one of the risks that does increase an individual's risk of developing Alzheimer's disease, and that's his expertise. So we're going to be able to do an even deeper dive into this topic, and that is the link between sleep apnea and Alzheimer's disease. And as I said, we already know it is a huge risk factor. He's going to go into a much more in depth, comprehensive explanation of why it is a risk for developing Alzheimer's disease. So without further ado, let me please introduce Kirk Huntsman. And Kirk is the CEO and chairman and co founder of a company called vivos therapeutics. Hi Kirk, and welcome to the truth lies and Alzheimer's show. I'm really excited about you being here today, because this sleep apnea is something that a lot of people actually live with, whether they know about it or they don't know about it, but as it turns out, it is considered one of the risk factors that can increase a person's risk of developing Alzheimer's disease, and it falls into the category of a modifiable risk factor because it can be treated. So I know that's one of the things that you're kind of going to go into a little bit more details about whether or not a CPAP machine, using a CPAP machine, is going to help reduce that from being a risk or not. So we can't wait to hear what you have to say about because a lot of people live with this. So let me start off by asking you, How did you get to this juncture in your career and specializing in sleep apnea and then founding vivos therapeutics?
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (02:36):
Well, Lisa, thank you for having me. First of all, it's a real pleasure to be here. I think you're doing the kind of work that needs to be done, and in terms of just getting the word out and and so that's that's one of the reasons why I'm here as well, because I think there is such a dearth of knowledge out there and understanding, and we're just now coming to understand some of the complex biochemistry and bio mechanisms that are at play here as we think about sleep apnea and and its connections to a wide range of what are called co morbidities. So so my you know, my background is, I'm a serial entrepreneur. Have been in the dental and medical space, healthcare space, for most of my career. I've been the founder and CEO of a number of of healthcare companies. My joy, my love, my current passion, is really the sleep medicine space we are acquiring right now. We're acquiring sleep practices around the country where we're really we see, we just did a documentary called The first symptom, and one of the things that we've seen is, is that there's, there's common, you know, there's over 40 different things that obstructive sleep apnea is CO morbid with. And what we're finding is is that, for many people, understanding that that they have a sleep and breathing problem is a first, a first clue to why a lot of other things that are going wrong with them that they haven't been able to quite figure out, or that their doctors are a little befuddled by. The first symptom, oftentimes, is is improper breathing, which disrupts sleep and and sleep apnea is right there in the middle of all that. So, so my firm vivos Therapeutics is actually a medical device company. We have a technology that it's the only FDA cleared oral appliance device in the world that has been cleared by the FDA to treat all levels of severity in obstructive sleep apnea in both adults and children. So we're really excited. About being able to bring to the market an alternative to CPAP. You know, it used to be that everybody who got who was diagnosed with sleep apnea was was given a CPAP machine and and most people, I mean, they just loathe the thought of having to wear one of those nasty things every night for life. It's not very sexy. It's not very becoming. It's not it's a disruption to the whole cycle of life. And so nobody looks forward to that, but, but for a lot of people, it's, it's a godsend in the sense that it actually keeps them alive and keeps them right, living to fight another day. Well, we've we've come along with a really viable alternative that can actually, it actually holds out the prospect of of resolving the disorder within a period of about nine to 12 months. So so not only do you not have to be on some type of a device for life, you can actually get the Pro, get it, get it done. And it's one, it's a one and done type treatment. So you wear this every night, and then it's, it's kind of over with. So let's talk about sleep apnea. What an apnea is, Lisa is, it's when the airway actually collapses So, and there's no ability for the the body to respire. So, so typically, there's a there, there's a collapse, and then there's a there's a a period of time where the body's sort of, the diaphragm is trying to fire, it's trying to open it up, but it can't, because there's a collapse of the upper airway. When that happens, there's, there's a whole, there's a whole cascade of neurological things, and the brain eventually realizes, oh my gosh, we're not breathing. And so it there's a an arousal, where you actually gasp for air, and you it, and then it resets right, and then you go through that again, the number of times that you have an apnea or hypopnea, hypopnea, loosely defined as where you have a concurring desaturation of blood level oxygen. So if you have an if you have a hypopnea or an apnea, they count those events up throughout the hour, and they come up with an index called your apnea hypopnea index, or your ahi your ahi score is basically used by the by the clinicians, to tell you how severe your sleep apnea is. So almost everybody has apneas throughout the night to some degree. So if you have less than five an hour, you're deemed to have no sleep apnea, no obstructive sleep apnea. If you have between five and 15, it's mild. 15 to 30 is moderate, and then above 30 is severe. And I have actually seen patients with, you know, as many as 100 or 120 or 150 these people are having severe obstructive sleep apnea. And what happens is, is that there, there is a compromise in the cardiovascular system due to inflammation and other other cascading things that are happening here, biochemically and biomechanically in the body as these as these apneas take place throughout the throughout the course of a night, and people with Sleep Apnea very rarely get into or, or they have trouble. Let's just say this. They have trouble getting into REM sleep, which is, which is an important thing I want to talk about in a minute. But, but the the key factor here in the connection to these inflammatory diseases, one of which is where we're finding, is Alzheimer's disease. What's happening is, is that there is throughout the the night, as the body struggles to get proper levels of oxygen and to disgorge the the CO two what happens is, is that there's inflammation, there's there's and the endothelial linings of the the the veins and and various other structures in the lungs, etc, these, these and the nasal passages, they're they're blocked from from really doing the everything they need to do, and they become inflamed. That inflammation creates a problem. And what it also does, specific to Alzheimer's is it interrupts something called the glymphatic system. And I don't know if you've talked about the glymphatics on your program, but the glymphatics basically, if you think about the human brain as sitting in a a pool of liquid, it's not blood, it's not water. It's glymphatic fluid. It's something called, actually, it's called the cerebral spinal fluid, or CSF. That CSF, it has its own circulatory system, and its purpose, primarily. Its purpose is to flush. The brain of the toxins that are created as the brain does what the brain does throughout the day, and so at night, our bodies need to get into this deep REM sleep for that sewage system to take place. Right? Sleep Apnea interrupts that process of allowing the body to get into a position where the glymphatic system can take over and flush the toxins. And if the toxins aren't flushed, because there's no deep REM sleep, then what happens is, is that they, they aggregate in the they, they know they, they just stay within the brain, and they stay within the they, they don't they. You can actually see them on radiographs. You can see the the sometimes they will, they'll harden into, you know, various forms. They'll calcify and other things. And you can see these, these areas of a lack of drainage in the in the radiographs of the brain, so you have a CAT scan, or you see some other x ray of your brain, you can actually see these things, and the neurologist can actually identify where these things are and what they may mean in different areas. But, but when the brain, I think, what your, I want your listeners to understand, is when the when they're not sleeping properly, and getting to that deep REM sleep, their body is unable to flush the brain toxins that accumulate throughout the day. And what happens there is then they they stay in the brain and and they interrupt proper brain function and and the electrical impulses that need to go on for proper brain function. You get all kinds of brainwave type disturbances, and you get all kinds of other things. But at the end of the day, I think the simple connection is to remember our brains need to cleanse our bot to be cleansed of these toxins, and they need to do that that happens mostly during sleep,
Lisa Skinner (12:04):
right? I've read so many studies about this, and it really makes a lot of sense to me, in terms of plaques and tangles, as we're finding out, aren't the only root cause of Alzheimer's disease. This is an example of another one, just from not getting quality sleep, because our brains are not cleansing itself out when if we're not reaching REM sleep. So it's more than a combination. I mean, yeah, it's more. It's more than just plaques and tangles, and this finally explains to me why, at the results of the nun study and other similar studies showed, upon autopsy of the brain that people and This has been substantiated. This is through scientific research that there are many people who have been asymptomatic of Alzheimer symptoms, but they have still found plaques and tangles in the brain, and the exact opposite, they have shown symptoms of dementia, Alzheimer's disease, but have had no plaques and tangles in the brain. So I think what we're discovering is that that the cause of Alzheimer's disease, or perhaps some of the other brain diseases, is is actually multifaceted, and that's the whole reason why we have these other known risk factors like sleep apnea, that are showing a correlation between developing with developing Alzheimer's disease and being at a lower risk if you're not living with it. One other thing I just wanted to clarify before we move on, because I think it's important for our listeners to understand the bottom line. So these apneas that you're talking about. The bottom line is people actually stop breathing while they're sleeping. Oh yeah, and that is one apnea. So when you said that you're aware of people who, in a sleep study, have demonstrated 100 apneas in the an hour while they're going through the sleep study, that means they have stopped breathing 100 times an hour during this 12 hours, or whatever the length of their their sleep study test is, isn't that correct? It
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (14:50):
is. And one of the things too, just to be a little more granular about that the technical definition, is that the apnea has to last at least 10. Seconds.
Lisa Skinner (15:00):
Okay, good. Good to know. Yeah. So
Unknown (15:03):
that the the interesting thing about that is, because that is the technical definition of an apnea. What happens is, is that, what if a person is has a lot of apneas that that don't last 10 seconds, right? What if they only last nine seconds? They don't get counted in that? So it's really important for people to get a sleep test. Now, one of the things that's happened over the last, really the last five years, maybe the last seven or eight years, but in the last 10 years, for sure, the technology for getting tested for obstructive sleep apnea has just come, you know, it's just really come a long ways, and so you can actually wear a simple ring. You can get a ring. You wear it to bed, and it will communicate with your cell phone. It'll link up to your cell phone via Bluetooth. This ring will actually then, and there's a number of different products like this on the market, but it'll actually sync up to your cell phone and it'll give you a medical grade sleep test that can be read by a Board Certified sleep specialist. And they can interpret some of these nuances. The one thing I want your readers to understand is that sleep apnea is complex. It's not just, it's not just, oh, you know, so and so's just stop breathing. Well, there's different kinds of sleep apnea, there's obstructive sleep apnea, which is a physiological, you know, physical obstruction, where the airways collapsed. There's also something called central sleep apnea, which is a neurological thing. Now what we find is, is that patients who have central, high levels of central sleep apnea, they may have certain toxins that they're dealing with. So they may they may be, they may be, let's just say, black mold. They may live in a house or at a an area of the country where there's a lot of black mold. And these, they may have some sort of a a toxicity. And it could be any number of things. I use black mold as an example, but, but the toxicities may cause central apneas and and again, these things need to be evaluated by somebody who understands. Because what we have to do is look at if somebody is is starting to have early onset Alzheimer's, early onset dementia, early onset, any of these conditions by by removing some of these toxins by removing some of these things that are upstream from that, we may be able to slow the progress of the disease. We may be able to reverse the disease. We may be able to intervene early and get that and prolong that patient's ability to be without the disease, right? So, so the that's why getting a sleep test, if I, if you're, I hope your listeners, if they leave here today with nothing else, if they understand a that this is a risk factor, it's an important risk factor. And what we're learning in the research and science right now is incredibly revealing about the the overall impact of our sleep and breathing on our overall health, and specifically some of these neuro behavioral neurological conditions such as early onset dementia and Alzheimer's, etc, etc. And so I to get sleep tested. Get a sleep test if you're if your primary care physician has never had you, go get a sleep test, ask for one it. They're inexpensive. Their insurance covers it. Typically it's it's easy to do. You can do it in the comfort of your own home. Get a sleep test, and then get to a board certified sleep specialist who can help interpret that to provide some type of a pathway forward from a diet, from a therapeutic standpoint, if there are things that are troublesome or worrisome that that to me, would be something that every every adult has it. One of the things that always amazes me is how many people are living with, either people in their family, people in their neighborhood, people in their circle of friends who are struggling with CPAP machines because they don't know what else to do for their sleep apnea and and people are curious about this. People are wondering how they can find other ways of of getting help and assistance, and if you have a genetic predisposition towards something like Alzheimer's or early onset dementia, by all means, please get a sleep test, because that's the real that's the real first step to understanding what your particular situation is and what can be done about it. So
Lisa Skinner (19:40):
traditionally, if somebody submits to a sleep study and it is determined that they have one of this sleep apnea conditions, the next step would be that the doctor would pursue. Describe what's called a CPAP machine. Want to explain to people why the CPAP machine is used to basically treat sleep apnea, what it does, and that could kind of be a segue into how your device is different, sure the same what it accomplishes, how it's easier to use, how it's much more convenient. But before we do that, the one thing I do want people to understand, because this actually is creating a serious situation for anybody who does live with sleep apnea, whether you're aware of it or not aware of it, it definitely is worth being tested, because my understanding is and correct me if I'm wrong. Kirk, the older you get, the higher your risk becomes. If you do live with sleep apnea, and you do stop breathing X amount of times every hour, the older you get, the higher you your risk is is that you you will not start breathing again and pass in your sleep, and that's a really scary thought. And I've had doctors tell me that I've interviewed, that a lot of older folks do pass in their sleep from sleep apnea, but then they don't even know they had it.
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (21:34):
Now, that's so true. That is so true. Let me, let me. Let me talk about sleep apnea in that vein for just a moment, you know, so sleep apnea first appeared in the medical literature just 60 years ago. I mean, if you think about, if you think about that in the context of other, other diseases, other, you know, problems and challenges to our health and wellness, we've known about for centuries. We really didn't identify sleep apnea as a specific medical condition until about 60 years ago. And interestingly enough, Charles Dickens referred to the pickwickian man, the the Pickwick, and it was called the Pickwick or the Pickwick man is the pickwickian syndrome that eventually sort of had its initial nickname, because the medical community didn't really know what this was. They knew that it it affected obese people, it affected males, it affected old elder elderly males, who were obese more more frequently than any other segment of the population, but they didn't really know what it was. And so it's only been 60 years that we've had the ability to to really understand this. And it was only you know, it was only named in 1976 which doesn't seem that far back, but it's 1976 where we actually coined the term, and it's Christian demo Dr gimino, who passed away a few years ago, but that's where we first got the term obstructive sleep apnea and some of these other things. So, So what's happened is, is in 40 years ago, this Australian, Dr Sullivan, he came up with the continuous positive airway pressure. That's what the acronym, CPAP stands for, continuous positive airway pressure. And literally, it looks like a Darth Vader mask. And you took you they seal up your entire respiratory system, and then they, they, they pump. It's literally a pump that can that provides a continuous positive airway pressure. In effect, what they're doing is they're, they're pumping up your airway like a like a bicycle tire. And we've all had, you know, experiences kids, where we're pumping away and trying to get the air into our tires, that's exactly what this is. To maintain an open and patent airway, they use continuous positive airway pressure. Well,
Lisa Skinner (23:52):
this is air. It's not oxygen, it's
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (23:54):
air, right? It's air. And so what happens is, is that now some people also get supplemental oxygen to go along with it. But that's that's especially here, and I'm in Denver, Colorado, in the Rocky Mountains, where you're living at altitude, a lot of people get supplemental oxygen to go along with their CPAP but, but the the challenge here is, is that it's, it's people feel a lot of claustrophobia. Some people that have an upper airway sort of nasal challenge. It's called upper airway resistance syndrome and other other challenges. They really are CPAP intolerant. And so the cpaps, for a lot of people, are just, eventually, people just stop wanting to hassle with them, and they set them. They're under the bed, they're up in the closet, they're, you know, they're thrown out whatever. They stop using it. So the effectiveness of CPAP is greatly diminished by the rejection that the patients have to it. And so it can be very helpful. It's, it's, it's helpfulness. It. And effectiveness as a therapy is oftentimes diminished by the lack of compliance, because people really don't want to wear it. And so, you know, spouses are always, you know, the elbow put your CPAP mask back on, and you know, the guy or the gal who's got sleep apnea, you know, they really don't want to do that. And so So compliance is a big issue. If you have severe sleep apnea, it will take about 10 years off of your life expectancy. So, so that's a really big risk factor for things you talked about a minute ago, which is, this is a scary deal, not waking up in the morning. We have one of the most famous episodes of this and judge Antonin Scalia. You remember a few years ago when he was out hunting in West Texas, and he and his buddies were drinking late. He got back to his room, forgot to put his CPAP on, and he didn't wake up the next day, and so he passed away prematurely. We have, you know, we have other other examples, Reggie White, the famous NFL football player. Anybody that has a 17 inch neck, a male with a 17 inch neck or greater has a 96% correlation to having sleep apnea. Do
Lisa Skinner (26:15):
you have any current statistics on what percentage of the population actually does live with sleep apnea, regardless of they're aware of it or not aware of it. I mean, I guess, I guess, I guess statistic wouldn't reflect people who haven't been diagnosed. But what about actual
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (26:33):
Yeah, let me give you those stats, because they're, they're scary. So we now know, and this came out just a few years ago that we now know that a billion people on this planet are walking around with sleep apnea. 80, 90% of them don't know they have it. You figure there's 8 billion people on, you know, planet Earth, and and, and really we know the risk factors in a modern, Western societal culture we have all the more we, you know, we have more obesity. We have more we have a certain kind of food diet. We have, you know, access to alcohol, all of those things, like, if you take if you have a glass of wine before bed, or a couple glasses of wine before bed, you have a much greater chance of experiencing sleep apnea throughout the night because of what alcohol does to your system. So so in the United States, and when we do in my firm, we do about 75 to I mean, about seven, let's just say 75,000 sleep tests a year. We have almost one in two patients who have sleep apnea. Now you won't hear that when, because what happens is, and I've noticed this in the literature, and it drives me crazy, is that in the scientific literature, everybody cites the person right before them, and nobody checks to go back to see, well, what's the current situation? Now I'll give you an example in the pediatric population. Just 10 years ago, the highest figures you could find were from seven to 9% of the pediatric population has OSA. And a lot of people only realize that kids get this too. But now I still hear people saying, well, it's only three to 5% or it's maybe as high as 7% or whatever, which are antiquated, decades old. Data, the current numbers are in excess of 20% and so in the last decade, from 2015 to 2025 it's absolutely more than doubled in a pediatric population, in postmenopausal women. We now know that that the incidence of sleep apnea doubles when you get to a post menopausal state of life. And so there are all these things that we're learning about sleep apnea now that's why I went back to tell your audience, we are just learning all there is to know, or as much as we can know we're still learning and discovering things about sleep apnea, literally on a month to month basis. And so those
Lisa Skinner (29:07):
numbers are absolutely shocking, especially hearing that children also do live with sleep apnea. So for those of you out there who aren't aware you might even have this. Isn't it true that most people who have sleep apnea, one of the telltale signs is there a snorer?
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (29:34):
Oh yeah, yeah. Now, if you snore, if you
Lisa Skinner (29:38):
might want to consider getting a test, because it's a good chance that it's due to sleep apnea. Is that a is that a honest statement?
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (29:46):
Yes. So here's the thing about snoring. Snoring is clearly an indicator that something more serious is going on, but it's not 100% so it's not like if you snore, you have sleep apnea. That's not That's not the. This works, but if you snore, you are more likely than not to have sleep apnea, and so. So I think, yes, what you just suggested there that if you're if you or and the problem with sleep apnea is that we sleep through it, right? We and unless we have a bed partner there who's given us the elbow going, okay, come on, something's not right here, either, either you're snoring loudly or you're gasping for air. I've actually seen, I've actually seen spouses who have filmed their spouse, their partner, who is gasping for literally gasping for air, and they show it to them, and the people can't believe it, because they they slept through the entire experience, right? And so remember now that when we don't sleep, we are in when our sleep is constantly interrupted by these arousals and the the the intermittent, you know, apneas that happen, we don't get into REM sleep the way that we need to. We don't get adequate REM sleep, and that's where our the glymphatic system is unable to wash our brain of of the toxins that were, that were created throughout the day as the brain does what the brain does, and so it's that interruptive bio mechanism that really is what is causing a lot of the problems, especially when it pertains to things like Alzheimer's, where, where we see a buildup of these, of these toxins in the brain that we know are there, and we haven't always understood why some people get them, and some people don't know that sort of thing, but, but I think we're drawing more and more connections here, right as we go.
Lisa Skinner (31:37):
Yeah, well, before we run out of time tell us about this new device that you think is like going to become the state of the art treatment for sleep apnea that people can actually tolerate and might wear to help save their lives.
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (31:58):
So listen, we, we looked at the we looked at this, at the sleep medicine industry, and we realized that what sleep medicine was, was all about, was trying to manage the disease state, and that's what CPAP does. 95% of patients were being prescribed CPAP, and it was to manage the disease. You got to wear this, those crazy things every night for life in order to maintain the benefit. Well, we came up and said, You know what? There's got to be a better way. And so by repositioning and redeveloping the jaws and the oral cavity, we actually open up that airway very slight changes. What we discovered was very slight changes in the size and shape of the dental arches and the relative position of the jaws, and we can make a dramatically disproportionate effect on the size, shape and patency of the airway. So we we get, we get in where our with our oral appliances, we redevelop the oral cavity. The dental arches expand a little bit. They they kind of get a little wider, the palate drops, nasal passages open up, the tongue, and everything comes forward a little bit, and all of a sudden the airway just boom, it just pops right open. And when that happens, a lot of the physiological impediments, the obstructions in obstructive sleep apnea, go away, and even central apneas we've seen diminish. And so a patient that has maybe a moderate to severe condition of OSA, a lot of times, they'll get to the point where it's mild, or there's none at all, and so, and that takes about nine months. You wear these things at night, you take it when you're done, in the morning, you wake up, you put these things in their little container, and you wash, rinse and repeat the next night. But you can like wearing a night guard. It's like wearing a night guard or a retainer of some sort, if you've had right. It looks like that, but it's got a very specific materials design and protocol for use that actually allows the body to sort of adapt to the shape. It guides the development and restructures the the and actually it creates a slightly better jaw line. So, you know, about 20% of, especially women, are getting this to actually look better. It's improving their jaw lines, improving their their facial profiles and and it's really a fascinating it
Lisa Skinner (34:24):
also help with TMJ
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (34:26):
actually, does absolutely, absolutely, we're actually, so if
Lisa Skinner (34:30):
you get the headaches from your mandibular joint thing, you know, not
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (34:35):
a normal state to have a tmromandibular joint problem, and if You've got pain or suffering from that. Yes, our doctors, our devices can actually help with that. We train on that. We teach the doctors how to use them for that application. And it's, it's, it's a comprehensive look at what's going on to help that patient sleep and breathe more more in a more relaxed, deep way. And then all. Other things have a much lesser level of incidence. That's what we're trying to do.
Lisa Skinner (35:04):
No, it's a twofer. You if you have TMJ, you're gonna have that corrected, and also your sleep apnea, and you'll feel like you're a brand new person, right?
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (35:15):
A lot of our patients, you know, the first thing that they report is that they dream again. They knows they breathe through their nose. And when you breathe through your nose, you get the good nitric oxide. A lot of the nitric oxide that we need is actually created in the endothelial linings of our nasal cavity. So when you breathe through your nose, you restore nitric oxide and you start to dream again, which is one of the very first positive things. People are like, I haven't dreamed in years. I haven't been able to breathe through my nose since I was a teenager. So all these things start to happen. And it just, it just sort of just through the course of about nine months or so that maybe 12 months, but through the course of that, of that therapeutic time you're everything just sort of improves and it it really starts, and then it lasts, it's a one and done treatment. So you throw these things away when you're done. That's the other part of it. Well, this
Lisa Skinner (36:08):
has been an absolutely fascinating conversation. I think that we've all learned so much from what you've shared with us, besides your advice that one of the number one takeaways that we can all get from this episode is get sleep tested and start there. What else would you want to to tell everybody? Because this could be like a surprise to a lot of us out there is like, oh my gosh, I know I snore, but I had no idea it could be sleep apnea. And this sounds really serious. It sounds dangerous. So I'd say that getting tested would absolutely be the first step to knowing if you do have this serious problem. What else would you like people to know? Well,
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (37:03):
I think the other thing is, you're never too young and you're never too old to either get treated or to have this condition. We've treated patients in their mid 80s. Okay, so it's not like, it's not like we can't affect patients of all ages, as young as three and as high as about 86 as old as 86 so so it's never too early or too late to get treated, and the benefits of treatment, in terms of overall health and wellness, are just staggering. I mean, the testimonials we get of patients are staggering. So get tested and then know that you're not, you're not relegated to a lifetime of CPAP if you're if you test positive, don't be afraid to be tested and get tested positive, because there's alternatives now that go way beyond just the traditional CPAP. That's, I think those two things are most important for your audience to understand.
Lisa Skinner (37:57):
That sounds like excellent advice. I have one more question for you, and then you can tell us how everybody can get more information, more details about this. So my last question, because it did catch my attention. You did say something that caught my attention. You had referred to early onset Alzheimer's disease. And just for those of you, just to clarify, early onset Alzheimer's disease is Alzheimer's disease, but it shows up before the age of 65 and I have read studies that are showing that more people today are actually being diagnosed or suspected to have early onset Alzheimer's, more so than any other time in history. And can we make this, this correlation that it could be due to what we've been talking about here today, the sleep apnea, and why it's showing up? Because you said it exists in children. Could this be a possible underlying cause of more and more people being diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's disease, which is before the age of 65 versus after the age of 65
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (39:26):
you know, my personal opinion is absolutely, that's
Lisa Skinner (39:30):
that's a possibility. It makes sense to me. Yeah, I
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (39:33):
think what's happening is, as we as we learn more about the roots and the root causes of sleep apnea, both neurologically and physiologically and chemically in our bodies, with our hormones and everything there's, there's so many factors that come to bear here. I think we're drawing more and more connections. And I would, I would say that that that thesis that you just put forward there is absolutely possible.
Lisa Skinner (39:59):
Yeah, well, it makes sense to me, and that kind of light bulb went off in my head when you said that, especially the children part and then the early onset piece of it. It all just kind of fits together. It's the missing pieces of the puzzle that I think the medical professionals and scientists are all starting to realize that this is a big puzzle, and it's not just limited to because the thoughts been for decades. Okay, it's plaques and tangles tau that are the cause of sleep path, I mean, of Alzheimer's disease, but now we're realizing that it's much more complicated than that. There's other things that are contributing to it so well, it
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (40:49):
was just a few years ago that we discovered this entire process, this glymphatic system in our brains and our spinal column, and how breathing actually acts as the pump when we breathe, it circulates that fluid. So if we're breathing irregularly or improperly, that pump system that the body uses to get that fluid throughout our throughout the entire spinal column and the brain, up through the brain stem and into the brain itself, all of that is impacted by it. So we're just learning these things now, and so that's kind of the focus of a lot of research and attention right now, is on the way that this, this whole glymphatic system works, how it how it functions, the purposes behind it, what effects, what it affects, and the connections between that and and inflammatory neurological conditions such as Alzheimer's. I mean, I just think it's it we're drawing we're honing in on making more and more of these connections,
Lisa Skinner (41:52):
right, right? Wow. Thank you so much for being here. How can people get more information? Do you have a website? What's the best way for them to Yeah,
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (42:04):
it's vivos.com v i, V, O, s.com, and my suggestion there, I'm having my website revamped right now, but you can go there and we have a help desk. Call the number at the help desk, and they'll get you to a provider near you that can help with some of this and kind of get you on the right path, get you tests you need, and all that sort of thing. But start with the vivos.com or vivos.com website, and then just go from there.
Lisa Skinner (42:32):
Yeah. Do you agree with the statement I'm going to make? We're just about out of time. But my takeaway from this is, I is this is such a significant health risk for people who live with it and either live with it with awareness or not awareness don't aren't aware of it, it's a simple way to diagnose it and and tell if you have it, and really it's a simple fix. So why? Why take the risk of all of the damage we talked about that could occur from the impacts of sleep apnea when you can easily find out if you are living, living with it, and then it's not a difficult treatment to kind of negate it from staying a risk factor for developing Alzheimer's disease and all the other things we talked about, 100% I
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (43:35):
think you said it very well. It's, this is something that we're we're now coming to understand for the first time ever, we understand what it is, what it's doing to us, how it's killing us prematurely, how it's compromising the quality of our life as we go through the especially the later stages of life, as you mentioned. And it's something that can be dealt with if we get diagnosed and if we get into the proper treatment. So yeah, I think those are all really, really good. The diagnosis part nowadays is so much easier. It used to be had to slip all yourself over to a sleep lab and and get wired up overnight and all that. You don't have to do that anymore. It's so much easier just get your get yourself tested.
Lisa Skinner (44:18):
Well, no pun intended, but it sounds like a no brainer to me, there you go. All right. Kirk, thanks again for being here. It's been an absolute pleasure, and just what a powerful conversation we've had together. I hope people seriously pay attention, because it can make a huge difference to the quality of the rest of their lives. So thanks everybody for sharing part of your day with us, for being here. I hope that this has been really valuable, and go get that sleep test start there. All right. Thanks again, Kirk, for being here. You've been a great guest. Bye for now.
Lisa, hello everyone. Welcome back to another brand new episode of the truth, lies and Alzheimer's show. I'm Lisa Skinner, your host, and today we have a very special guest, and I'm really excited that he's here to talk about this very, very important topic, and I've talked about it before on my risk factors episodes, because it happens to fall under one of the risks that does increase an individual's risk of developing Alzheimer's disease, and that's his expertise. So we're going to be able to do an even deeper dive into this topic, and that is the link between sleep apnea and Alzheimer's disease. And as I said, we already know it is a huge risk factor. He's going to go into a much more in depth, comprehensive explanation of why it is a risk for developing Alzheimer's disease. So without further ado, let me please introduce Kirk Huntsman. And Kirk is the CEO and chairman and co founder of a company called vivos therapeutics. Hi Kirk, and welcome to the truth lies and Alzheimer's show. I'm really excited about you being here today, because this sleep apnea is something that a lot of people actually live with, whether they know about it or they don't know about it, but as it turns out, it is considered one of the risk factors that can increase a person's risk of developing Alzheimer's disease, and it falls into the category of a modifiable risk factor because it can be treated. So I know that's one of the things that you're kind of going to go into a little bit more details about whether or not a CPAP machine, using a CPAP machine, is going to help reduce that from being a risk or not. So we can't wait to hear what you have to say about because a lot of people live with this. So let me start off by asking you, How did you get to this juncture in your career and specializing in sleep apnea and then founding vivos therapeutics?
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (02:36):
Well, Lisa, thank you for having me. First of all, it's a real pleasure to be here. I think you're doing the kind of work that needs to be done, and in terms of just getting the word out and and so that's that's one of the reasons why I'm here as well, because I think there is such a dearth of knowledge out there and understanding, and we're just now coming to understand some of the complex biochemistry and bio mechanisms that are at play here as we think about sleep apnea and and its connections to a wide range of what are called co morbidities. So so my you know, my background is, I'm a serial entrepreneur. Have been in the dental and medical space, healthcare space, for most of my career. I've been the founder and CEO of a number of of healthcare companies. My joy, my love, my current passion, is really the sleep medicine space we are acquiring right now. We're acquiring sleep practices around the country where we're really we see, we just did a documentary called The first symptom, and one of the things that we've seen is, is that there's, there's common, you know, there's over 40 different things that obstructive sleep apnea is CO morbid with. And what we're finding is is that, for many people, understanding that that they have a sleep and breathing problem is a first, a first clue to why a lot of other things that are going wrong with them that they haven't been able to quite figure out, or that their doctors are a little befuddled by. The first symptom, oftentimes, is is improper breathing, which disrupts sleep and and sleep apnea is right there in the middle of all that. So, so my firm vivos Therapeutics is actually a medical device company. We have a technology that it's the only FDA cleared oral appliance device in the world that has been cleared by the FDA to treat all levels of severity in obstructive sleep apnea in both adults and children. So we're really excited. About being able to bring to the market an alternative to CPAP. You know, it used to be that everybody who got who was diagnosed with sleep apnea was was given a CPAP machine and and most people, I mean, they just loathe the thought of having to wear one of those nasty things every night for life. It's not very sexy. It's not very becoming. It's not it's a disruption to the whole cycle of life. And so nobody looks forward to that, but, but for a lot of people, it's, it's a godsend in the sense that it actually keeps them alive and keeps them right, living to fight another day. Well, we've we've come along with a really viable alternative that can actually, it actually holds out the prospect of of resolving the disorder within a period of about nine to 12 months. So so not only do you not have to be on some type of a device for life, you can actually get the Pro, get it, get it done. And it's one, it's a one and done type treatment. So you wear this every night, and then it's, it's kind of over with. So let's talk about sleep apnea. What an apnea is, Lisa is, it's when the airway actually collapses So, and there's no ability for the the body to respire. So, so typically, there's a there, there's a collapse, and then there's a there's a a period of time where the body's sort of, the diaphragm is trying to fire, it's trying to open it up, but it can't, because there's a collapse of the upper airway. When that happens, there's, there's a whole, there's a whole cascade of neurological things, and the brain eventually realizes, oh my gosh, we're not breathing. And so it there's a an arousal, where you actually gasp for air, and you it, and then it resets right, and then you go through that again, the number of times that you have an apnea or hypopnea, hypopnea, loosely defined as where you have a concurring desaturation of blood level oxygen. So if you have an if you have a hypopnea or an apnea, they count those events up throughout the hour, and they come up with an index called your apnea hypopnea index, or your ahi your ahi score is basically used by the by the clinicians, to tell you how severe your sleep apnea is. So almost everybody has apneas throughout the night to some degree. So if you have less than five an hour, you're deemed to have no sleep apnea, no obstructive sleep apnea. If you have between five and 15, it's mild. 15 to 30 is moderate, and then above 30 is severe. And I have actually seen patients with, you know, as many as 100 or 120 or 150 these people are having severe obstructive sleep apnea. And what happens is, is that there, there is a compromise in the cardiovascular system due to inflammation and other other cascading things that are happening here, biochemically and biomechanically in the body as these as these apneas take place throughout the throughout the course of a night, and people with Sleep Apnea very rarely get into or, or they have trouble. Let's just say this. They have trouble getting into REM sleep, which is, which is an important thing I want to talk about in a minute. But, but the the key factor here in the connection to these inflammatory diseases, one of which is where we're finding, is Alzheimer's disease. What's happening is, is that there is throughout the the night, as the body struggles to get proper levels of oxygen and to disgorge the the CO two what happens is, is that there's inflammation, there's there's and the endothelial linings of the the the veins and and various other structures in the lungs, etc, these, these and the nasal passages, they're they're blocked from from really doing the everything they need to do, and they become inflamed. That inflammation creates a problem. And what it also does, specific to Alzheimer's is it interrupts something called the glymphatic system. And I don't know if you've talked about the glymphatics on your program, but the glymphatics basically, if you think about the human brain as sitting in a a pool of liquid, it's not blood, it's not water. It's glymphatic fluid. It's something called, actually, it's called the cerebral spinal fluid, or CSF. That CSF, it has its own circulatory system, and its purpose, primarily. Its purpose is to flush. The brain of the toxins that are created as the brain does what the brain does throughout the day, and so at night, our bodies need to get into this deep REM sleep for that sewage system to take place. Right? Sleep Apnea interrupts that process of allowing the body to get into a position where the glymphatic system can take over and flush the toxins. And if the toxins aren't flushed, because there's no deep REM sleep, then what happens is, is that they, they aggregate in the they, they know they, they just stay within the brain, and they stay within the they, they don't they. You can actually see them on radiographs. You can see the the sometimes they will, they'll harden into, you know, various forms. They'll calcify and other things. And you can see these, these areas of a lack of drainage in the in the radiographs of the brain, so you have a CAT scan, or you see some other x ray of your brain, you can actually see these things, and the neurologist can actually identify where these things are and what they may mean in different areas. But, but when the brain, I think, what your, I want your listeners to understand, is when the when they're not sleeping properly, and getting to that deep REM sleep, their body is unable to flush the brain toxins that accumulate throughout the day. And what happens there is then they they stay in the brain and and they interrupt proper brain function and and the electrical impulses that need to go on for proper brain function. You get all kinds of brainwave type disturbances, and you get all kinds of other things. But at the end of the day, I think the simple connection is to remember our brains need to cleanse our bot to be cleansed of these toxins, and they need to do that that happens mostly during sleep,
Lisa Skinner (12:04):
right? I've read so many studies about this, and it really makes a lot of sense to me, in terms of plaques and tangles, as we're finding out, aren't the only root cause of Alzheimer's disease. This is an example of another one, just from not getting quality sleep, because our brains are not cleansing itself out when if we're not reaching REM sleep. So it's more than a combination. I mean, yeah, it's more. It's more than just plaques and tangles, and this finally explains to me why, at the results of the nun study and other similar studies showed, upon autopsy of the brain that people and This has been substantiated. This is through scientific research that there are many people who have been asymptomatic of Alzheimer symptoms, but they have still found plaques and tangles in the brain, and the exact opposite, they have shown symptoms of dementia, Alzheimer's disease, but have had no plaques and tangles in the brain. So I think what we're discovering is that that the cause of Alzheimer's disease, or perhaps some of the other brain diseases, is is actually multifaceted, and that's the whole reason why we have these other known risk factors like sleep apnea, that are showing a correlation between developing with developing Alzheimer's disease and being at a lower risk if you're not living with it. One other thing I just wanted to clarify before we move on, because I think it's important for our listeners to understand the bottom line. So these apneas that you're talking about. The bottom line is people actually stop breathing while they're sleeping. Oh yeah, and that is one apnea. So when you said that you're aware of people who, in a sleep study, have demonstrated 100 apneas in the an hour while they're going through the sleep study, that means they have stopped breathing 100 times an hour during this 12 hours, or whatever the length of their their sleep study test is, isn't that correct? It
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (14:50):
is. And one of the things too, just to be a little more granular about that the technical definition, is that the apnea has to last at least 10. Seconds.
Lisa Skinner (15:00):
Okay, good. Good to know. Yeah. So
Unknown (15:03):
that the the interesting thing about that is, because that is the technical definition of an apnea. What happens is, is that, what if a person is has a lot of apneas that that don't last 10 seconds, right? What if they only last nine seconds? They don't get counted in that? So it's really important for people to get a sleep test. Now, one of the things that's happened over the last, really the last five years, maybe the last seven or eight years, but in the last 10 years, for sure, the technology for getting tested for obstructive sleep apnea has just come, you know, it's just really come a long ways, and so you can actually wear a simple ring. You can get a ring. You wear it to bed, and it will communicate with your cell phone. It'll link up to your cell phone via Bluetooth. This ring will actually then, and there's a number of different products like this on the market, but it'll actually sync up to your cell phone and it'll give you a medical grade sleep test that can be read by a Board Certified sleep specialist. And they can interpret some of these nuances. The one thing I want your readers to understand is that sleep apnea is complex. It's not just, it's not just, oh, you know, so and so's just stop breathing. Well, there's different kinds of sleep apnea, there's obstructive sleep apnea, which is a physiological, you know, physical obstruction, where the airways collapsed. There's also something called central sleep apnea, which is a neurological thing. Now what we find is, is that patients who have central, high levels of central sleep apnea, they may have certain toxins that they're dealing with. So they may they may be, they may be, let's just say, black mold. They may live in a house or at a an area of the country where there's a lot of black mold. And these, they may have some sort of a a toxicity. And it could be any number of things. I use black mold as an example, but, but the toxicities may cause central apneas and and again, these things need to be evaluated by somebody who understands. Because what we have to do is look at if somebody is is starting to have early onset Alzheimer's, early onset dementia, early onset, any of these conditions by by removing some of these toxins by removing some of these things that are upstream from that, we may be able to slow the progress of the disease. We may be able to reverse the disease. We may be able to intervene early and get that and prolong that patient's ability to be without the disease, right? So, so the that's why getting a sleep test, if I, if you're, I hope your listeners, if they leave here today with nothing else, if they understand a that this is a risk factor, it's an important risk factor. And what we're learning in the research and science right now is incredibly revealing about the the overall impact of our sleep and breathing on our overall health, and specifically some of these neuro behavioral neurological conditions such as early onset dementia and Alzheimer's, etc, etc. And so I to get sleep tested. Get a sleep test if you're if your primary care physician has never had you, go get a sleep test, ask for one it. They're inexpensive. Their insurance covers it. Typically it's it's easy to do. You can do it in the comfort of your own home. Get a sleep test, and then get to a board certified sleep specialist who can help interpret that to provide some type of a pathway forward from a diet, from a therapeutic standpoint, if there are things that are troublesome or worrisome that that to me, would be something that every every adult has it. One of the things that always amazes me is how many people are living with, either people in their family, people in their neighborhood, people in their circle of friends who are struggling with CPAP machines because they don't know what else to do for their sleep apnea and and people are curious about this. People are wondering how they can find other ways of of getting help and assistance, and if you have a genetic predisposition towards something like Alzheimer's or early onset dementia, by all means, please get a sleep test, because that's the real that's the real first step to understanding what your particular situation is and what can be done about it. So
Lisa Skinner (19:40):
traditionally, if somebody submits to a sleep study and it is determined that they have one of this sleep apnea conditions, the next step would be that the doctor would pursue. Describe what's called a CPAP machine. Want to explain to people why the CPAP machine is used to basically treat sleep apnea, what it does, and that could kind of be a segue into how your device is different, sure the same what it accomplishes, how it's easier to use, how it's much more convenient. But before we do that, the one thing I do want people to understand, because this actually is creating a serious situation for anybody who does live with sleep apnea, whether you're aware of it or not aware of it, it definitely is worth being tested, because my understanding is and correct me if I'm wrong. Kirk, the older you get, the higher your risk becomes. If you do live with sleep apnea, and you do stop breathing X amount of times every hour, the older you get, the higher you your risk is is that you you will not start breathing again and pass in your sleep, and that's a really scary thought. And I've had doctors tell me that I've interviewed, that a lot of older folks do pass in their sleep from sleep apnea, but then they don't even know they had it.
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (21:34):
Now, that's so true. That is so true. Let me, let me. Let me talk about sleep apnea in that vein for just a moment, you know, so sleep apnea first appeared in the medical literature just 60 years ago. I mean, if you think about, if you think about that in the context of other, other diseases, other, you know, problems and challenges to our health and wellness, we've known about for centuries. We really didn't identify sleep apnea as a specific medical condition until about 60 years ago. And interestingly enough, Charles Dickens referred to the pickwickian man, the the Pickwick, and it was called the Pickwick or the Pickwick man is the pickwickian syndrome that eventually sort of had its initial nickname, because the medical community didn't really know what this was. They knew that it it affected obese people, it affected males, it affected old elder elderly males, who were obese more more frequently than any other segment of the population, but they didn't really know what it was. And so it's only been 60 years that we've had the ability to to really understand this. And it was only you know, it was only named in 1976 which doesn't seem that far back, but it's 1976 where we actually coined the term, and it's Christian demo Dr gimino, who passed away a few years ago, but that's where we first got the term obstructive sleep apnea and some of these other things. So, So what's happened is, is in 40 years ago, this Australian, Dr Sullivan, he came up with the continuous positive airway pressure. That's what the acronym, CPAP stands for, continuous positive airway pressure. And literally, it looks like a Darth Vader mask. And you took you they seal up your entire respiratory system, and then they, they, they pump. It's literally a pump that can that provides a continuous positive airway pressure. In effect, what they're doing is they're, they're pumping up your airway like a like a bicycle tire. And we've all had, you know, experiences kids, where we're pumping away and trying to get the air into our tires, that's exactly what this is. To maintain an open and patent airway, they use continuous positive airway pressure. Well,
Lisa Skinner (23:52):
this is air. It's not oxygen, it's
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (23:54):
air, right? It's air. And so what happens is, is that now some people also get supplemental oxygen to go along with it. But that's that's especially here, and I'm in Denver, Colorado, in the Rocky Mountains, where you're living at altitude, a lot of people get supplemental oxygen to go along with their CPAP but, but the the challenge here is, is that it's, it's people feel a lot of claustrophobia. Some people that have an upper airway sort of nasal challenge. It's called upper airway resistance syndrome and other other challenges. They really are CPAP intolerant. And so the cpaps, for a lot of people, are just, eventually, people just stop wanting to hassle with them, and they set them. They're under the bed, they're up in the closet, they're, you know, they're thrown out whatever. They stop using it. So the effectiveness of CPAP is greatly diminished by the rejection that the patients have to it. And so it can be very helpful. It's, it's, it's helpfulness. It. And effectiveness as a therapy is oftentimes diminished by the lack of compliance, because people really don't want to wear it. And so, you know, spouses are always, you know, the elbow put your CPAP mask back on, and you know, the guy or the gal who's got sleep apnea, you know, they really don't want to do that. And so So compliance is a big issue. If you have severe sleep apnea, it will take about 10 years off of your life expectancy. So, so that's a really big risk factor for things you talked about a minute ago, which is, this is a scary deal, not waking up in the morning. We have one of the most famous episodes of this and judge Antonin Scalia. You remember a few years ago when he was out hunting in West Texas, and he and his buddies were drinking late. He got back to his room, forgot to put his CPAP on, and he didn't wake up the next day, and so he passed away prematurely. We have, you know, we have other other examples, Reggie White, the famous NFL football player. Anybody that has a 17 inch neck, a male with a 17 inch neck or greater has a 96% correlation to having sleep apnea. Do
Lisa Skinner (26:15):
you have any current statistics on what percentage of the population actually does live with sleep apnea, regardless of they're aware of it or not aware of it. I mean, I guess, I guess, I guess statistic wouldn't reflect people who haven't been diagnosed. But what about actual
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (26:33):
Yeah, let me give you those stats, because they're, they're scary. So we now know, and this came out just a few years ago that we now know that a billion people on this planet are walking around with sleep apnea. 80, 90% of them don't know they have it. You figure there's 8 billion people on, you know, planet Earth, and and, and really we know the risk factors in a modern, Western societal culture we have all the more we, you know, we have more obesity. We have more we have a certain kind of food diet. We have, you know, access to alcohol, all of those things, like, if you take if you have a glass of wine before bed, or a couple glasses of wine before bed, you have a much greater chance of experiencing sleep apnea throughout the night because of what alcohol does to your system. So so in the United States, and when we do in my firm, we do about 75 to I mean, about seven, let's just say 75,000 sleep tests a year. We have almost one in two patients who have sleep apnea. Now you won't hear that when, because what happens is, and I've noticed this in the literature, and it drives me crazy, is that in the scientific literature, everybody cites the person right before them, and nobody checks to go back to see, well, what's the current situation? Now I'll give you an example in the pediatric population. Just 10 years ago, the highest figures you could find were from seven to 9% of the pediatric population has OSA. And a lot of people only realize that kids get this too. But now I still hear people saying, well, it's only three to 5% or it's maybe as high as 7% or whatever, which are antiquated, decades old. Data, the current numbers are in excess of 20% and so in the last decade, from 2015 to 2025 it's absolutely more than doubled in a pediatric population, in postmenopausal women. We now know that that the incidence of sleep apnea doubles when you get to a post menopausal state of life. And so there are all these things that we're learning about sleep apnea now that's why I went back to tell your audience, we are just learning all there is to know, or as much as we can know we're still learning and discovering things about sleep apnea, literally on a month to month basis. And so those
Lisa Skinner (29:07):
numbers are absolutely shocking, especially hearing that children also do live with sleep apnea. So for those of you out there who aren't aware you might even have this. Isn't it true that most people who have sleep apnea, one of the telltale signs is there a snorer?
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (29:34):
Oh yeah, yeah. Now, if you snore, if you
Lisa Skinner (29:38):
might want to consider getting a test, because it's a good chance that it's due to sleep apnea. Is that a is that a honest statement?
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (29:46):
Yes. So here's the thing about snoring. Snoring is clearly an indicator that something more serious is going on, but it's not 100% so it's not like if you snore, you have sleep apnea. That's not That's not the. This works, but if you snore, you are more likely than not to have sleep apnea, and so. So I think, yes, what you just suggested there that if you're if you or and the problem with sleep apnea is that we sleep through it, right? We and unless we have a bed partner there who's given us the elbow going, okay, come on, something's not right here, either, either you're snoring loudly or you're gasping for air. I've actually seen, I've actually seen spouses who have filmed their spouse, their partner, who is gasping for literally gasping for air, and they show it to them, and the people can't believe it, because they they slept through the entire experience, right? And so remember now that when we don't sleep, we are in when our sleep is constantly interrupted by these arousals and the the the intermittent, you know, apneas that happen, we don't get into REM sleep the way that we need to. We don't get adequate REM sleep, and that's where our the glymphatic system is unable to wash our brain of of the toxins that were, that were created throughout the day as the brain does what the brain does, and so it's that interruptive bio mechanism that really is what is causing a lot of the problems, especially when it pertains to things like Alzheimer's, where, where we see a buildup of these, of these toxins in the brain that we know are there, and we haven't always understood why some people get them, and some people don't know that sort of thing, but, but I think we're drawing more and more connections here, right as we go.
Lisa Skinner (31:37):
Yeah, well, before we run out of time tell us about this new device that you think is like going to become the state of the art treatment for sleep apnea that people can actually tolerate and might wear to help save their lives.
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (31:58):
So listen, we, we looked at the we looked at this, at the sleep medicine industry, and we realized that what sleep medicine was, was all about, was trying to manage the disease state, and that's what CPAP does. 95% of patients were being prescribed CPAP, and it was to manage the disease. You got to wear this, those crazy things every night for life in order to maintain the benefit. Well, we came up and said, You know what? There's got to be a better way. And so by repositioning and redeveloping the jaws and the oral cavity, we actually open up that airway very slight changes. What we discovered was very slight changes in the size and shape of the dental arches and the relative position of the jaws, and we can make a dramatically disproportionate effect on the size, shape and patency of the airway. So we we get, we get in where our with our oral appliances, we redevelop the oral cavity. The dental arches expand a little bit. They they kind of get a little wider, the palate drops, nasal passages open up, the tongue, and everything comes forward a little bit, and all of a sudden the airway just boom, it just pops right open. And when that happens, a lot of the physiological impediments, the obstructions in obstructive sleep apnea, go away, and even central apneas we've seen diminish. And so a patient that has maybe a moderate to severe condition of OSA, a lot of times, they'll get to the point where it's mild, or there's none at all, and so, and that takes about nine months. You wear these things at night, you take it when you're done, in the morning, you wake up, you put these things in their little container, and you wash, rinse and repeat the next night. But you can like wearing a night guard. It's like wearing a night guard or a retainer of some sort, if you've had right. It looks like that, but it's got a very specific materials design and protocol for use that actually allows the body to sort of adapt to the shape. It guides the development and restructures the the and actually it creates a slightly better jaw line. So, you know, about 20% of, especially women, are getting this to actually look better. It's improving their jaw lines, improving their their facial profiles and and it's really a fascinating it
Lisa Skinner (34:24):
also help with TMJ
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (34:26):
actually, does absolutely, absolutely, we're actually, so if
Lisa Skinner (34:30):
you get the headaches from your mandibular joint thing, you know, not
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (34:35):
a normal state to have a tmromandibular joint problem, and if You've got pain or suffering from that. Yes, our doctors, our devices can actually help with that. We train on that. We teach the doctors how to use them for that application. And it's, it's, it's a comprehensive look at what's going on to help that patient sleep and breathe more more in a more relaxed, deep way. And then all. Other things have a much lesser level of incidence. That's what we're trying to do.
Lisa Skinner (35:04):
No, it's a twofer. You if you have TMJ, you're gonna have that corrected, and also your sleep apnea, and you'll feel like you're a brand new person, right?
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (35:15):
A lot of our patients, you know, the first thing that they report is that they dream again. They knows they breathe through their nose. And when you breathe through your nose, you get the good nitric oxide. A lot of the nitric oxide that we need is actually created in the endothelial linings of our nasal cavity. So when you breathe through your nose, you restore nitric oxide and you start to dream again, which is one of the very first positive things. People are like, I haven't dreamed in years. I haven't been able to breathe through my nose since I was a teenager. So all these things start to happen. And it just, it just sort of just through the course of about nine months or so that maybe 12 months, but through the course of that, of that therapeutic time you're everything just sort of improves and it it really starts, and then it lasts, it's a one and done treatment. So you throw these things away when you're done. That's the other part of it. Well, this
Lisa Skinner (36:08):
has been an absolutely fascinating conversation. I think that we've all learned so much from what you've shared with us, besides your advice that one of the number one takeaways that we can all get from this episode is get sleep tested and start there. What else would you want to to tell everybody? Because this could be like a surprise to a lot of us out there is like, oh my gosh, I know I snore, but I had no idea it could be sleep apnea. And this sounds really serious. It sounds dangerous. So I'd say that getting tested would absolutely be the first step to knowing if you do have this serious problem. What else would you like people to know? Well,
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (37:03):
I think the other thing is, you're never too young and you're never too old to either get treated or to have this condition. We've treated patients in their mid 80s. Okay, so it's not like, it's not like we can't affect patients of all ages, as young as three and as high as about 86 as old as 86 so so it's never too early or too late to get treated, and the benefits of treatment, in terms of overall health and wellness, are just staggering. I mean, the testimonials we get of patients are staggering. So get tested and then know that you're not, you're not relegated to a lifetime of CPAP if you're if you test positive, don't be afraid to be tested and get tested positive, because there's alternatives now that go way beyond just the traditional CPAP. That's, I think those two things are most important for your audience to understand.
Lisa Skinner (37:57):
That sounds like excellent advice. I have one more question for you, and then you can tell us how everybody can get more information, more details about this. So my last question, because it did catch my attention. You did say something that caught my attention. You had referred to early onset Alzheimer's disease. And just for those of you, just to clarify, early onset Alzheimer's disease is Alzheimer's disease, but it shows up before the age of 65 and I have read studies that are showing that more people today are actually being diagnosed or suspected to have early onset Alzheimer's, more so than any other time in history. And can we make this, this correlation that it could be due to what we've been talking about here today, the sleep apnea, and why it's showing up? Because you said it exists in children. Could this be a possible underlying cause of more and more people being diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's disease, which is before the age of 65 versus after the age of 65
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (39:26):
you know, my personal opinion is absolutely, that's
Lisa Skinner (39:30):
that's a possibility. It makes sense to me. Yeah, I
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (39:33):
think what's happening is, as we as we learn more about the roots and the root causes of sleep apnea, both neurologically and physiologically and chemically in our bodies, with our hormones and everything there's, there's so many factors that come to bear here. I think we're drawing more and more connections. And I would, I would say that that that thesis that you just put forward there is absolutely possible.
Lisa Skinner (39:59):
Yeah, well, it makes sense to me, and that kind of light bulb went off in my head when you said that, especially the children part and then the early onset piece of it. It all just kind of fits together. It's the missing pieces of the puzzle that I think the medical professionals and scientists are all starting to realize that this is a big puzzle, and it's not just limited to because the thoughts been for decades. Okay, it's plaques and tangles tau that are the cause of sleep path, I mean, of Alzheimer's disease, but now we're realizing that it's much more complicated than that. There's other things that are contributing to it so well, it
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (40:49):
was just a few years ago that we discovered this entire process, this glymphatic system in our brains and our spinal column, and how breathing actually acts as the pump when we breathe, it circulates that fluid. So if we're breathing irregularly or improperly, that pump system that the body uses to get that fluid throughout our throughout the entire spinal column and the brain, up through the brain stem and into the brain itself, all of that is impacted by it. So we're just learning these things now, and so that's kind of the focus of a lot of research and attention right now, is on the way that this, this whole glymphatic system works, how it how it functions, the purposes behind it, what effects, what it affects, and the connections between that and and inflammatory neurological conditions such as Alzheimer's. I mean, I just think it's it we're drawing we're honing in on making more and more of these connections,
Lisa Skinner (41:52):
right, right? Wow. Thank you so much for being here. How can people get more information? Do you have a website? What's the best way for them to Yeah,
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (42:04):
it's vivos.com v i, V, O, s.com, and my suggestion there, I'm having my website revamped right now, but you can go there and we have a help desk. Call the number at the help desk, and they'll get you to a provider near you that can help with some of this and kind of get you on the right path, get you tests you need, and all that sort of thing. But start with the vivos.com or vivos.com website, and then just go from there.
Lisa Skinner (42:32):
Yeah. Do you agree with the statement I'm going to make? We're just about out of time. But my takeaway from this is, I is this is such a significant health risk for people who live with it and either live with it with awareness or not awareness don't aren't aware of it, it's a simple way to diagnose it and and tell if you have it, and really it's a simple fix. So why? Why take the risk of all of the damage we talked about that could occur from the impacts of sleep apnea when you can easily find out if you are living, living with it, and then it's not a difficult treatment to kind of negate it from staying a risk factor for developing Alzheimer's disease and all the other things we talked about, 100% I
Mr. Kirk Huntsman (43:35):
think you said it very well. It's, this is something that we're we're now coming to understand for the first time ever, we understand what it is, what it's doing to us, how it's killing us prematurely, how it's compromising the quality of our life as we go through the especially the later stages of life, as you mentioned. And it's something that can be dealt with if we get diagnosed and if we get into the proper treatment. So yeah, I think those are all really, really good. The diagnosis part nowadays is so much easier. It used to be had to slip all yourself over to a sleep lab and and get wired up overnight and all that. You don't have to do that anymore. It's so much easier just get your get yourself tested.
Lisa Skinner (44:18):
Well, no pun intended, but it sounds like a no brainer to me, there you go. All right. Kirk, thanks again for being here. It's been an absolute pleasure, and just what a powerful conversation we've had together. I hope people seriously pay attention, because it can make a huge difference to the quality of the rest of their lives. So thanks everybody for sharing part of your day with us, for being here. I hope that this has been really valuable, and go get that sleep test start there. All right. Thanks again, Kirk, for being here. You've been a great guest. Bye for now.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.