August 5, 2025 • 50 mins
Film professor Dr. Will Dodson is back to discuss John Wayne and the first movie that tried to capitalize on his newfound stardom, Allegheny Uprising.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome back to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys, a classic Western
film and TV podcast. My name is Hunter. In this
week's episode, Will Dotson is back, and this time we're
talking about a John Wayne movie called Allegheny Uprising. This
is set in pre revolutionary America, so it's before any
significant westward expansion, and it takes place in Pennsylvania. So
is it a Western or historical drama? We're calling it
(00:36):
a colonial Western. No matter what you call it. It's
a fun movie to talk about, and we're going to
get right into it. Here's our conversation on Alleghany Uprising.
Welcome back, Will. How's it going?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Oh? Pretty well, pretty well, glad to be here. How
how you been doing.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I've been doing well. It's it's it's been a couple
months since you were on talking about Stagecoach and this
timmer around. We have a very different John Wayne movie
on just about it. But before we get into it,
let's talk about what you've been up to. Do you
have any Blu Ray feature or podcast appearances or anything
else you'd like to mention?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Sure? Yeah, let's see most recently my colleague Ryan Verrel
and I produced a visual essay for Deaf Crocodile's release
of the first Lithuanian rock opera, The Devil's Bride. It's
a fantastic and beautiful movie, and I think the essay
(01:33):
is pretty good too. It's definitely worth checking out.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I've seen the art for The Devil's Bride and
it looks amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, it really is quite good. On the other end
of the artistic spectrum, Several just released the nineteen ninety
Australian medical thriller Dead Silence with Linda Blair, and for
(02:00):
that one, I actually got to just be the window dressing.
I narrated a visual essay that was written by the
film critic and writer Bud Wilkins. It's about kind of
the genre of the medical thriller, so I think it
puts the movie in context. Pretty happy with that.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh that's awesome. But yeah, but we've got to get
into this movie. Will what a picture. I'll talk a
bit about the cast and crew and then we'll kind
of get into our general thoughts.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Okay, And I want to thank you again because I
threatened with I threatened you with this film. Soon after
we first began talking, Yes, and I commend you for
following through.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, And you know, I was very unsure about covering it,
and I think I even said it takes place. I
told you it takes place in Pennsylvania. I don't know
if it can be considered a Western. And then you
mentioned the idea of it being a colonial Western.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah. Yeah, in the sense that it is the features
of the genre right there there. Yeah, the settlers are
pushing west, but this is pre Revolutionary War. It's close
to the Revolutionary War, but it's it's got all the
elements of a traditional Western.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah. I am happy you pushed for it, though, because
I do think it is going to be a fun
movie to to talk about. Now was It was directed
by William A. Cedar, and I've seen a few of
his movies and they're mostly comedies. I know he directed
Sons of the Desert, which is a Laurel Hardy movie,
and he did a Marx Brothers movie called Room Service.
And I actually watched a couple of his movies, probably
(03:38):
in the last year. I watched You Were Never Lovelier.
But it's a musical with Fredistare and Rita Hayworth and
He also directed a pre code movie called Big Business Girl,
starring Loretta Young, and I love pre Code era Loretta Young,
and I think in Joan Blondell is also in that movie.
But are you familiar with any of cedars will.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Just the Room Service. I don't think I've seen any
of those that you've that you've mentioned.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Actually, yeah, if you look at his filmography, the majority
of them are definitely comedies. And I think I look
to see if he had any other Westerns, and I
think this might be it, but I'm I'm not positive.
And then for the cast, Claire Trevor he received top
billing and and John Wayne is second billing. But I mean,
(04:26):
he's clearly the star of the movie. And it also
star as George Sanders, who I know you'll be quoting
later and I might as well, and Brian Dunlevy, and
I've always been a fan of him. I really like
the great McGuinty, the Preston Sturgis movie, and I love
The Glass Key as an Alan Ladd Veronica Lake Noir.
(04:48):
I think that's a great movie. And he was in
quite a few westerns. He was Industry Rides Again, Kenyon Passage,
and Cowboy and quite a few others. And then another
recognizable actor in this is Chill Wills, which a tremendous name.
But he was in the Westerner, and he was in
a couple other John Wayne movies. He was in McClintock
(05:08):
and Rio Grand And the script was written by PJ. Wolfson,
and he adapted the novel called The First Rebel by
Neil H. Swanson and Wolfin's at Wolfson's. He's written and
co written some pretty good movies. He wrote Dancing Lady,
which is like an MGM musical. It's kind of a
Buzby Berkeley knockoff with Joan Crawford and Clark Gable. That's
(05:30):
really fun. And he co wrote Mad Love, the Carl
Freud movie with Peter Lourie.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And he also co wrote or maybe wrote the whole
script for A Vivacious Lady, the George Stevens movie. And
it was shot by Nicholas mussaraka the DP who shot
out of the Past in the Spiral Staircase. So there
is some pretty strong talent in front of and behind
the camera on this movie. Yeah, now, will now, do
(06:01):
you want to say what this movie is about or
would you rather I read a synopsis? As you know,
I can't do plot summaries.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Well I can I go ahead and give the synopsis,
and then maybe I can give a little bit of
background on the historical events that the novel was based on,
just to put the movie into context.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay, yeah, that sounds good. All right. So in seventeen
fifty nine, in Pennsylvania's Allegheny Valley, local settlers and Indian
fighters try to persuade the British authorities to ban the
trading of alcohol and arms with the marauding Indians. That
is the IMDb plot summary.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Oh, that's it, that's it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, very brief, I AMDB. If I go with the
letterbox synopsis, it's very long, IMDb. They like whatever their
character limit is, it's much lower than letterbox.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Well that's great. Well yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah.
So this is the novel was based on what's called
the Black Boys Rebellion, and this was some of the
fallout after the what's known as the Seven Years War,
(07:23):
the French and Indian War seventeen fifty four to seventeen
sixty three. The British were victorious. They acquired all these
territories in North America, parts of the sort of Northwest
Frontier of the time, going all the way up into Canada,
(07:45):
and the British government issued some people might remember from
high school history, the Royal Proclamation of seventeen sixty three, right,
and that forbade settlers from moving west beyond the Appalachian Mountains.
That was a treaty that's supposed to preserve the indigenous territory. Well,
(08:08):
don't need to tell you what the settlers did. They
pushed right on through and then got mad when the
indigenous people began to resist, most famously Pontiac's rebellion in
seventeen sixty three and seventeen sixty four. So I sound
like I know what I'm talking about. I did actually
(08:29):
get some notes together, so you can call this ironic
if you want to. But settlers in western Pennsylvania and Virginia,
despite you know, doing what they weren't supposed to and pushing,
pushing the western frontier, felt like they weren't getting enough
(08:50):
support from the crown right in the form of soldiers
protecting them from the natives in terms of trade and
so on. And they some began to feel that the
fact that the British were continuing to trade with the
(09:10):
indigenous tribes, specifically weapons and rum they were supplying. In
their view, the British were supplying the natives with the
very weapons that they were then turning on the settlers. Right,
So there was this sentiment that the British was putting
(09:33):
profits over people. Shocker, right, Like that doesn't define every
every relationship between the government and the government. Yeah, So
this this fiery tempered Scots Irish fellow named James Smith,
(09:55):
who had fought in the French and anymore hadn't been
in a captive of a tribe for I think it
says in the movie three Years. I don't know if
that's an exaggeration of the actual account, but Smith organized
a militia group that they called the Black Boys because
(10:16):
they painted their faces black and red and in order
to camouflage themselves in the film, that's straight up red face. Historically,
I can't say whether it was that from the accounts
that I read it, it's in order to they blackened
(10:38):
their faces so that they could camouflage themselves in the
woods war paint, right, Yes, So all of these guys
that were fighting with Smith were veterans of frontier warfare,
and they were both in the typical Appalachian Scott's Irish way.
They hated everybody, they hated. They didn't care for the British,
(11:02):
especially not the British authority, and they didn't care for
the tribes who were unhappy with their expansion. So a
British Indian agent named George Crohan, who is in the film,
is played by Dunlevy. Brian Dunlevy was transporting goods through
(11:25):
western Pennsylvania to Fort Pitt, and settlers, fearing that the
goods will be used against them in future raids, ambushed
and destroyed the wagon train, and that resulted in British
officials denouncing them and sending a detachment of soldiers to
arrest Smith and the men. But from the Black Boys perspective,
(11:50):
they were upholding the provincial law right. So there was
this kind of pre revolutionary struggle that sort of prefigures
on the Tea Party and the Boston Tea Party and
all of that of this rejection of British authority under
(12:10):
the auspices of provincial law and this demand that they
be allowed to more or less govern themselves. So the
British soldiers occupy Fort Loudon, they attempt to arrest Smith
and his followers, surrounded the fort, put it under siege,
(12:32):
and eventually force the British to negotiate and withdraw. So
this again is a sort of opening volley of what
would eventually erupt as the Revolutionary War.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Now did they actually now in the movie they this
is skipping ahead. But in the movie they shoot at
the fort. Yeah, and they and they, but they tell
people to shoot to like aim over people's heads basically,
so they don't actually kill anybody, and they just keep
shooting over and over again. It is there any evidence
that it played out like that at all? Or is
that just for the movie or do you know?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
From what I read there were few, if any casualties,
and the siege, which may have included some shooting, was
conducted at such a range, just like in the movie,
that the shots were unlikely to hurt anybody. Okay, gotcha,
But certainly you know, didn't help anybody's mood.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, being shot at it never helps anyone's mood.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You know, you're the centuries weren't able to you know,
just take a leak over the side of the outside
of the wall as they were accustomed.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, that's for sure. I will. I know, I know
you've got a lot to say about this movie. So
what did you think of Allegheny? Upright?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
So I find this movie really fascinating from a historical standpoint,
not just the real history that we've been referencing, but
from the standpoint of film history. Because this movie is
also nineteen thirty nine. It was shot after Stagecoach. Republic
(14:23):
had lent John Wayne to RKO, so this was not,
as you know, well resourced a film as Stage Coach,
but it was definitely a step up in terms of
budget from the Republic pictures, and it paired him again
with Claire Trevor, who again top line the movie. But
(14:47):
if you watch these movies back to back, which I'm
not advocating, you'll be quite amazed at how little Claire
Trevor is allowed to do in this film. She is
and I don't know if you agree with me or not,
but she is reduced and it's it's hurtful to see
(15:08):
her reduced to the thinnest characterization of a tough frontiers
woman who just can't quit this John Wayne fella who
who mistreats her. Jim Smith, I should say, who mistreats
her every step of the way. She's her character is
(15:30):
I don't want to use the word shrill, but I
don't know what other word to use.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Oh, yeah, she absolutely is.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
She's really given the bad end of the stick in
this this movie, and for her to top line and
and for it to come after such a you know,
her role in Stagecoach is in some ways a stereotypical role,
but as we discussed before, she gets to do so
much more with that. Yes, here, there is no nuance whatsoever.
(16:02):
She is the Scottish daughter of a Scottish man working
at a tavern and pining over Jim Smith, who is
constantly leaving for months, even years at a time because
he just has to see what's out there. You know.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, I mean she gives it. It's I mean, it's
definitely a very energetic performance, I would say, but it's
just so one note and that note is is a
note that I don't want to see played for the
amount of screen time that it is played for. It's
a shame because yeah, because she's so awesome in Stagecoach,
(16:43):
but here, like I would never say it's a bad
performance because I think she's probably doing what she's written
and directed to do. Yeah, but yeah, it just seeing
what she's capable of and then seeing what she's given here.
It's it's kind of a shame, really.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, and the top line the film and then be
sidelined by all the male characters in ways that are
rarely funny and instead just frequently uncomfortable. Is not that
great to watch her character. I mean, she plays Janie McDougall,
(17:21):
the tavern owner's daughter. She's a tomboy character. Her father
Mac McDougall, played by Wilfred Lawson in one of the
most irritating performances I've ever seen in cinema. Wilfrid Lawson
does a caricature of a drunk Scotsman that obliterates previous
(17:50):
stereotypical performances that one may have seen.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's brutal, he is, Oh, it's so awful, especially anytime
he gets really loud and yells and oh it's horrible.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, and it's it's almost a prototype for the drunken
hillbilly characters that we'll see in the decades to come.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, I felt like he he would be used better,
like in a rob zombie movie than in this because
he's so he's just so obnoxious.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's it's horrible, Rob Zomb, That's actually a good idea.
I was thinking of an episode of Dukes of Hazzard.
But yeah, if it were Dukes of Hazard as directed
by Rob Zombie, he would absolutely fit.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I would actually I would watch that, all right. I
would definitely check that out.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Let's do another another film version of Dukes of Hazard
but darker. Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, did you have any other thoughts or do you
want me to kind of share some of mine?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah? Well, I'm very curious because I know that you
watched this for the first time. This was shockingly my
fourth or fifth time, So oh wow, I've got not
you know, all bunched together or anything. But just over
the years I've got it was released on DVD, I
don't know, twenty years ago now, has not been upgraded
(19:16):
to Blu ray as of this recording. And you know,
every now and then over the years I've put it on,
and every time I'm reminded why it's both interesting and appalling.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yes, absolutely, yes, so asy as a movie like Jess,
as a kind of a piece of entertainment. I didn't
enjoy it. It does have a couple of moments that
I thought were pretty good now after being I don't
really know what word I would use it maybe stunned
the first time I saw John Wayne and the rest
(19:55):
of his crew in red face and red body, I
guess as well. In that action scene where they attack
the Native Americans in the river, that scene is pretty fun,
like when they're jumping out of the trees into the river.
That that I enjoyed. And there is an interesting moment
after this scene where John Wayne as Jim Smith, he
(20:20):
stops McDougall from killing one of the natives, and and
and then Wayne like he talks to him and you know,
whatever language the Native Americans speaks, and then for some reason,
the professor translates what's what the Native American is saying?
Like John Wayne can't understand, but but the the Native
(20:43):
American basically says that they wiped out all of these people.
And then a man I don't know, I actually don't
know the character, but somebody behind John Wayne or behind
you know, Jim Smith nudges John Wayne's arm and in
that hand he's holding a knife and he ends up
stabbing the Native American. Do you know what do you
want Tom, referring to.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah, I can't remember the name of the character, but
he is, he's a Tom.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Tom nudges his arm. Are you thinking of the Native
American or the to the guy who nudges John Wayne.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I'm thinking of the guy. I thought it might be Shoot.
I can't remember the character's name. I don't think it
was Tom Calhoun.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, but anyway, anyways, like after and so the Native America,
he's he's killed because the hand that the arm of
the man nudges, that hand is holding a knife and
he stabs him. And one thing that Jim Smith says,
it's kind of interesting. It is Jim Smith says that
(21:51):
white people taught the Native people. Uh no, no, we
we teach them everything. We teach them everything.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Don't we write how to be Treacherous? Right?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah? Which I thought was a very interesting kind of
commentary on like white people like teaching Native Americans how
to slaughter?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Did? Did?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
But that did that stand out to you at all?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah? That moment's important because it really differentiates John Wayne's character,
Jim Smith, from the rest of the mob, and because he,
you know, walks along the Natives as a scout and
and as someone who had been you know, captured and
(22:37):
adopted into the tribe for several years. We're given to
feel like he understands them as human beings better, right,
And even though the rhetoric of the film, as every
other character describes indigenous people is as nothing but bloodthirsty,
drunken savages, Myth occasionally points out where they get the rum,
(23:02):
you know where, and as you said, right, where they
learn their these tactics from, and so on. It's a
it's a it's a strange moment, right when when the
sort of hot headed character whose name we can't remember,
you know, forces or pushes Jim Smith's knife into the
(23:22):
captive uh, indigenous guy. Because throughout the rest of the
film we see these these settlers as more or less heroic. Yes,
but in that moment and a couple of you know,
a couple of other little ones, uh, there's a little
bit of acknowledgment or commentary on the settler's c culpability
(23:45):
in the whole conflict, which is you know, worth worth
worth noting.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, yeah, I thought that that was pretty interesting. And
of course, of course this is all this is in
the same movie where I think there is a point
I don't know if they say this exactly, but I
think McDougall or maybe the Professor says something along the
lines of like, the only good Indian is a dead Indian.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah, that's that's uh the.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
And this character is a hero in my movie.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Right, I think that's McDougall who says.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
That, Okay, good, because I already wanted most Anyways, the.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Professor character, who's played by John F. Hamilton, who's probably
best known as Pops in on the Waterfront, is a
bit more as the name implies, reserved and cerebral. But
that scene that we're that we're referencing is the only
scene in which indigenous characters actually appear. The rest of
(24:45):
the time, like as in most of Stagecoach, they're merely
spoken of as this constant dangerous presence, this impending sense
of the doom. The real opponents, the real enemies in
this film are the British soldiers and perhaps more importantly
(25:06):
and more to my heart, those goddamn capitalists the traders.
The traders who care nothing but for their profit margins. Right,
and there there's a great scene where all the Brian
Don Levy is together with all the rest of the
(25:27):
traders and there and they're talking about their profit margins
versus the the the dead, you know, settlers, and how
they'll manipulate the British soldiers into protecting the very goods
that they're supposed to be forbidding traveling through the territory
(25:52):
to eventually end up in the hands of the of
the indigenous. So we've got we've got quite a matrix
of conflict, right. You've got the so called bloodthirsty savage natives,
You've got the blood thirsty manufacturers traders of goods. You've
(26:14):
got the arrogant and rigid British soldiers, and then you've
got the practical, down to earth and constantly drunk settlers. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, now I.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Should say I'm making this sound better than it is.
This is I don't think as it would be anyone's
idea of unobjectively great movie.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Oh no, yeah, I don't see how it could be either.
I will say it.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I actually watched this twice because it it did. It
held my interest pretty well for about fifty minutes, and
then it really started to lose me, and so I
needed to watch it again. The scene where they shoot
up the fort that Sanders and Dunley vy are in.
(27:10):
I feel like that should have been the climax. I
can't believe the movie continues after that.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Right, yeah, that should have been the end.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
And let's see, where was I going with that? Oh yeah,
And I know John Wayne was not fond of this movie.
He said that he's only ever played one cautious part
in his life in Allegheny Uprising, and he said it
was a rather dull character. And I agree, it is
a very dull character. But I'll also add he doesn't
(27:45):
bring anything to this performance, and at times it's I
think it's laughably bad. His voice when he's wounded is
hilarious to me, Like his weak wounded voice or whatever
is so funny. But yeah, I'm trying to think, I
I if I have anything else to really add outside
(28:10):
of that. Now, now, the the the the credits. Now, now,
when the credits are are mentioned, you know you don't
have a great movie. But the credits illuminated by the
handheld lanterns was kind of fun.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Oh yeah, that was a really cool touch. Almost in
the in the pre presaging the rite of Paul Revere.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Right, yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
That credit sequences as a as a boy is coming
through and illuminating. Yeah, each each credit. Well, that was
that was pretty cool. It was a cool start.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah. Oh and you know one thing I wanted to mention.
I meant to say when you were talking about the
context this gives to Stagecoach is one thing that's kind
of interesting is this is an RKAO movie, and of
course RKO turned down Stage Coach and then they immediately
(29:08):
cast its stars in a movie the same year after
it was a success.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Didn't work out though, This movie lost over two hundred
thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's why, Oh it did. Oh, I didn't look at
the box office.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Big money loser, partly because it ended up being it
was banned, right, it was banned in Britain.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Ya, it was banned in Britain, And I guess, and
it came out. Didn't this come out a week or
two after Drums along the Mohawk?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yes? Yeah, and it was right, it was. It was
considered harmful to British morale because it is very anti British.
He has not. I can't argue with that, right, And
I think that's really the most interesting thing about the
(29:58):
movie is, uh that it is very anti colonial and
it's it's released. You know, in a year where you know,
the United States has had just kind of allied itself
with Britain. Though we hadn't entered World War Two yet,
we were certainly providing support to the Allies. And so
(30:25):
this film was kind of contrary to the propagandistic sentiment
that we that we it was the wrong kind of propaganda.
It was propaganda that would have been fine any other time.
But the movie as as kind of representing the mythology
(30:49):
of the revolutionary spirit, I think really captures the at
least the textbook bullet points right. The British are overly
bureaucratic there in their snobby they look down their noses
at the unwashed settlers. The settlers, of course in this
(31:11):
region are primarily of Scott's Irish origin, so there's already
that tension. And George Sanders, of course the ultimate dismissive
elitist snob, right, I mean, the character that he's so
good at. He provides most of the tension in the
(31:32):
first half of the film, and then in the third
act the tact on third act that we both feel
like shouldn't have been there, which is the show trial
of Jim Smith, over which Sanders presides as Captain Swanson,
he provides the most comic relief absolutely before going down
(31:54):
in his own little tragedy. We should talk about that character,
Captain Swanson, who as a as a character flaw, does
not care to listen to what anybody has to say. No,
and he's great, you know, It's that it's a it's
a rule that I'm sure Sanders wasn't too interested in
(32:16):
either way. And I read that Claire Trevor said that
Sanders did not make many friends in the cast, kind
of ignored everyone and wouldn't even take his meals with him.
That may have been to get into character, or it
may have just been how he felt. But this character,
(32:36):
you know, Captain Swanson, follows orders to the letter, will
not deviate no matter what new information is presented. Looks
with utter disdain and contempt upon the settlers who are
unwashed and undisciplined. Couldn't seem to care less about the
(32:58):
indigenous people. He barely they barely even register to him. Yeah,
there might be some some people who get in his
way marching from point A to point B, but he's
particularly contemptuous of Jim Smith John Wayne, who refuses to
(33:19):
submit to authority.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, yeah, he's he's something. Now. He he does have
some good some good quotes. I mean you said he
was kind of the movies only he's really the only
source of humor.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, well he's he's kind of that. He's got the
the repeated lines of the prototypical Karen lines. Right, somebody
will say something he doesn't like, and he'll say, arrest
that man. Yeah. You could play a drinking game with
this movie. Every time George Sanders calls for someone to
be arrested, take a drink. You won't make it far.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
In the show, Well, I know that you loved this
line as well. But there's a great forensic scene, right
would you would you like to describe the scene.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Oh sure, yeah, So there there's this scene. So I
don't know how much I need to say to kind
of set this up, but basically, earlier in the movie,
Jim Smith is with another character, it might be Chill
Wills character. I can't remember, yes, who the actor was,
and I think Brian Dunleavy or somebody he was with
(34:36):
shoots Chill Wills and then John Wayne's gun goes off, right,
but his his rifle is like aimed up in the air,
so there's no way he could have shot him. But
they pin the killing on John Wayne Jim Smith. I'll
(34:57):
try to use the character's name, because sometimes sometimes I
end up using Saint John Wayne or Jim's or the
character's name, and I want to try to be a
little more consistent. But and so he's on trial for
this character's death. And Claire Trevor does a demonstration basically
showing how it would have been impossible for Smith to
(35:23):
be the one to have shot him. And so she
I think, she shoots like a shirt from far away
and then shoots it up close. Is that right?
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (35:36):
The size of the bullet holes on the burn.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yes, yes, and so and so there's all this smoke
in the room from the from the shots, and and
Sanders says, this is decidedly irregular and smelly.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
And then he follows it out, Oh, this is something
that I feel like I want to say to my
children so many, so many times, he goes, how many
more of these detonations are we to endure? What a
what a great line, And you know you have to
wait the whole movie to hear it, but it's almost
worth another great great one, you know, of course, the
(36:21):
the the audience in the in the courtroom erupt into
applause or booze as the trial goes on, and in
trying to call the the proceedings to order, Sanders says,
any lout who feels the need of airing his spleen
at the expense of the court's decorum will find himself
(36:44):
dining on bread and water. Just so so grandiloquent and
a perfect again contrast to the monosyllabic japing of McDougall.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, Sanders is definitely he is the only
the only actor, urber performer who he provides any any laughs,
and they are they are not intentional, but at least
it gives you something to enjoy, gives you something.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
And again, you know, in nineteen thirty nine, Wayne made Stagecoach, Yes,
but also what six or seven movies for Republican, including
at least three of the Three Musketeers films, and then
Allegheny Uprising for RKO, which is kind of a in
(37:44):
between movie, right, and as you noted, was rushed into
production after the successive Stagecoach, So he's still kind of
at the mercy of the lowest of low budget you know,
he hasn't hit yet, I guess. In nineteen forty he
does Dark Command with Raul Walsh, which I guess we
(38:04):
may talk about at some point.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, and then the non Western film The Long Voyage
Home for john Ford, his second john Ford film, also
nineteen forty, seafaring film in which Wayne plays a Swede
and it does attempt the accent on occasion.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Not great, No, it's not great.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
The movie itself is pretty amazing. Greg Toland was the cinematographer.
It's beautiful, but Wayne's Swedish accent, ain't it. But anyway,
back to Allegetting Uprising, and this extreme contrast between the
bureaucratic rigidity and class structure right of the British against
(38:52):
the egalitarian, informal, earthy settlers is is the key. I mean,
that's the big the big tape takeaway right, the revolutionary spirit,
frontier justice, you know something, man's just going to take
care of himself versus the impersonal bureaucratic law. And it's
(39:16):
very much part of the self mythologization of America in
both the propaganda films that that came out around World
War Two and the Western genre in general, which is
one of the reasons. I really pushed to see this
(39:36):
as a Western because I feel like it it is
part of that mythical lineage, right of yah, of manifest destiny,
of carving civilization out of the wilderness, and you know,
white by white men and coonskin hats wikiped. He actually
(40:00):
points out that this is one of four films in
which John Ware John Wayne wears the coonskin cap.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
So, well, what's this the Fighting Kentucky and in the Alamo?
What's what's another one?
Speaker 3 (40:14):
What's the other one? The Big Trail?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Oh, the Big Trail of course. Yeah, Oh my gosh,
how soon we forget? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:25):
But yeah, right, since Drums along the Mohawk comes out
the same year, so you see what john Ford is producing, right,
and Wayne is just not He hasn't broken through yet, right,
this is before he's any kind of superstar.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, in Northwest Passage might be the same year, or yes,
around the same time, the same year. Okay, yeah, so yeah,
so three sort of colonial Westerns, all all kind of
in a row. I No, I have not seen Drums
along the Mohawk in a long time, but yeah, is
(41:02):
it western enough to be?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (41:03):
And I know it's not. John Wayne but is it
Western enough to be covered on the podcast you think,
or is that more historical drama?
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I think so. I mean I'd argue for it, although
it certainly would be a stretch, okay, But in terms
of themes, I think it's consistent with where the Western
is beginning to go. I mean Stagecoach, right is the
is the is considered the moment, right the tipping point
(41:31):
where the Western kind of matures as a genre as
opposed to just to be action or with no coherent
I don't want to sound like a film professor or anything,
but prior to Stage Coach, there was no coherent ideology
right of the of the Western and with film, and
(41:52):
I think Allegheny Uprising does contribute to the ideology of
the Western in ways that are less nuanced than than
some of the great filmmakers like Ford, like Walsh. But
when you when people think of the stereotypical Western ideology,
this is it, right, the savage Indians, the the heroic frontiersman,
(42:17):
and the out of touch government, not to mention the
avaricious capitalists, right right, So it's all it's it's it's
all right there, all right?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Well, I yeah, I don't really have. I don't think
any any other really anything else to say about this movie.
Do you kind of do you have anything else?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
I think it's appropriate that this is one of our
shorter conversations. I agree, if there had been something, you know,
similar to Allegheny Uprising, we could have paired it with
we might have extended the conversation. But but for me,
you know, since we kind of have this John Wayne
journey that we're taken together, I really wanted to note
(43:06):
it as a not It's not significant enough to be
a counterpoint. It's more like a adjacent doorstop as stagecoach
like rides into legendary status as a film. Yeah, Allegheny
Uprising sits at this tipping point for the genre, tipping
(43:27):
point for the country. You know this again, World War
two has incalculable effects on the world and the film industry.
And yeah, just kind of a sign post, that's what
we'll call it. A sign post, Yeah, in the development
of the genre and the trajectory of Wayne's career. Right,
(43:50):
he's still a B movie actor in nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Oh absolutely, Yeah, a sign post. Yeah, illuminated by a
little handheld lantern.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
The British are coming slowly in information. You can't miss
them all.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Right, Well, well this was short, but like you said,
this was worth doing because it's a it's a fun
movie to talk about. I mean, I will say I'm
never gonna watch this movie again.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Twice twice, but.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I did watch it twice, and it was back to
back mornings. Yeah, that first morning, I yeah, I just
got I'd say around the fifty minute mark, I just
got a little distracted and a little bored. So I
felt like I owed it to the movie. I didn't
want to go into it and go into this really
(44:42):
only being moderately familiar with the first fifty minutes. So
I'm glad I put my phone and I left it
in the kitchen because that's what distracted me the first
time around. And then I just was like, Okay, I'm
just going to pay attention to this thing.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
It's I'm not recommending it to listeners, but I'm not
not recommending it either. The movies all over the place
in terms of its tone. You know, we didn't One
thing we didn't really get into was the fact that
the British Army, under the direction of Sanders' character, tortures
(45:23):
right basically tortures innocent settlers in order to flush Jim
Smith out, you know, of hiding when he's and it
changes the tone to this kind of oh okay, well,
this isn't just comic relief or an issue of you know, misunderstanding.
(45:46):
This is people are getting hurt here, and so it
kind of raises the stakes for that kangaroo court uh
sequence that we mentioned. But again, it's such a jarring
transition from the climax siege of the Fort, in which
it's kind of like watching the Return of the King.
You know, you think the movie is going to end, yeah,
(46:08):
several times before it actually does. But in those in
those continuations, those extensions, there's more stuff that complicates the
the the viewing experience. So yeah, I appreciate you you
including it in our ongoing discussion, and I'm happy to
move on to Dark Passage next.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Oh absolutely, all right, Well, well will Will Willere can,
where can people find you on social media?
Speaker 3 (46:39):
Now?
Speaker 2 (46:40):
You had mentioned you were going to up your social
media presence to me? Have you done that?
Speaker 3 (46:45):
I have posted more on Instagram primarily so W. W.
Doudson fifty two, the same handles on Twitter and Blue Sky,
but I have not yet caught up with those two
in terms of activity. However, in a couple of months,
I'm gonna be I won't be able to talk about
it yet, but maybe on the next episode. I'm going
(47:06):
to be part of a well gigantic to me but
very niche small event around Halloween that that I'll promote.
That'll be on Twitter and Blue Sky some some live tweeting.
What do they call blue tweets on Blue Sky Live?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Oh, I have no idea. I have a Blue Sky.
I may have posted a couple times on it and
that and that's it. For some reason. Yeah, it's like
it's too new to me and I just don't even
think about it.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
I'm so Yeah, I remain an aspirational social media user,
but Instagram has has pretty much. If I'm if I'm
involved in anything worth knowing about, it's on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Okay, all right, well we'll This was tremendous. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Oh. Thanks, Yeah, it's always great to talk with Yea.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
I'pe enjoyed this episode. I really enjoy talking about Allegheny
uprising with Will. But I will say, to take a
line from my favorite movie podcast film Junk, I'm retiring
this movie. I will not be watching it again, but
it was worth watching so Will and I could have
this conversation. What did you think of this week's episode
and what John Wayne movies are you most looking forward to?
Will and I covering. You can let me know by
emailing me or on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook, and all
(48:26):
the links are in the episode description. Next week, David
Lambert is returning and we've got a pretty special episode
for you. We're going to be talking about the Lancer
Pilot and its connection to Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a
Time in Hollywood and its novelization. I'll leave a link
to the Lancer Pilot and the description for anyone who
wants to check it out before next week. Until then,
if you're looking for more film related podcasts, please check
out other shows on the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.
(48:49):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 4 (48:54):
Hello, Filthy movie lovers. My name is Gentry Austin Now
and we're the hosts of the Sin Syndicate Film podcast
for Something weirdos Anti Criterion Brose and Joseph Sarno of
Ficionados join us semi weekly as we peer into the
adults only theaters in sticky floored cinemas of the golden
(49:18):
age of sexploitation, when the morals were loose, the laws
were murky, and the intercourse was all simulated. Find us
now on the Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the
Someone's Favorite Productions podcast Network. Please please select the link
in the description.
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome back to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys, a classic Western
film and TV podcast. My name is Hunter. In this
week's episode, Will Dotson is back, and this time we're
talking about a John Wayne movie called Allegheny Uprising. This
is set in pre revolutionary America, so it's before any
significant westward expansion, and it takes place in Pennsylvania. So
is it a Western or historical drama? We're calling it
(00:36):
a colonial Western. No matter what you call it. It's
a fun movie to talk about, and we're going to
get right into it. Here's our conversation on Alleghany Uprising.
Welcome back, Will. How's it going?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Oh? Pretty well, pretty well, glad to be here. How
how you been doing.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I've been doing well. It's it's it's been a couple
months since you were on talking about Stagecoach and this
timmer around. We have a very different John Wayne movie
on just about it. But before we get into it,
let's talk about what you've been up to. Do you
have any Blu Ray feature or podcast appearances or anything
else you'd like to mention?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Sure? Yeah, let's see most recently my colleague Ryan Verrel
and I produced a visual essay for Deaf Crocodile's release
of the first Lithuanian rock opera, The Devil's Bride. It's
a fantastic and beautiful movie, and I think the essay
(01:33):
is pretty good too. It's definitely worth checking out.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I've seen the art for The Devil's Bride and
it looks amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, it really is quite good. On the other end
of the artistic spectrum, Several just released the nineteen ninety
Australian medical thriller Dead Silence with Linda Blair, and for
(02:00):
that one, I actually got to just be the window dressing.
I narrated a visual essay that was written by the
film critic and writer Bud Wilkins. It's about kind of
the genre of the medical thriller, so I think it
puts the movie in context. Pretty happy with that.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh that's awesome. But yeah, but we've got to get
into this movie. Will what a picture. I'll talk a
bit about the cast and crew and then we'll kind
of get into our general thoughts.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Okay, And I want to thank you again because I
threatened with I threatened you with this film. Soon after
we first began talking, Yes, and I commend you for
following through.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, And you know, I was very unsure about covering it,
and I think I even said it takes place. I
told you it takes place in Pennsylvania. I don't know
if it can be considered a Western. And then you
mentioned the idea of it being a colonial Western.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah. Yeah, in the sense that it is the features
of the genre right there there. Yeah, the settlers are
pushing west, but this is pre Revolutionary War. It's close
to the Revolutionary War, but it's it's got all the
elements of a traditional Western.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah. I am happy you pushed for it, though, because
I do think it is going to be a fun
movie to to talk about. Now was It was directed
by William A. Cedar, and I've seen a few of
his movies and they're mostly comedies. I know he directed
Sons of the Desert, which is a Laurel Hardy movie,
and he did a Marx Brothers movie called Room Service.
And I actually watched a couple of his movies, probably
(03:38):
in the last year. I watched You Were Never Lovelier.
But it's a musical with Fredistare and Rita Hayworth and
He also directed a pre code movie called Big Business Girl,
starring Loretta Young, and I love pre Code era Loretta Young,
and I think in Joan Blondell is also in that movie.
But are you familiar with any of cedars will.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Just the Room Service. I don't think I've seen any
of those that you've that you've mentioned.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Actually, yeah, if you look at his filmography, the majority
of them are definitely comedies. And I think I look
to see if he had any other Westerns, and I
think this might be it, but I'm I'm not positive.
And then for the cast, Claire Trevor he received top
billing and and John Wayne is second billing. But I mean,
(04:26):
he's clearly the star of the movie. And it also
star as George Sanders, who I know you'll be quoting
later and I might as well, and Brian Dunlevy, and
I've always been a fan of him. I really like
the great McGuinty, the Preston Sturgis movie, and I love
The Glass Key as an Alan Ladd Veronica Lake Noir.
(04:48):
I think that's a great movie. And he was in
quite a few westerns. He was Industry Rides Again, Kenyon Passage,
and Cowboy and quite a few others. And then another
recognizable actor in this is Chill Wills, which a tremendous name.
But he was in the Westerner, and he was in
a couple other John Wayne movies. He was in McClintock
(05:08):
and Rio Grand And the script was written by PJ. Wolfson,
and he adapted the novel called The First Rebel by
Neil H. Swanson and Wolfin's at Wolfson's. He's written and
co written some pretty good movies. He wrote Dancing Lady,
which is like an MGM musical. It's kind of a
Buzby Berkeley knockoff with Joan Crawford and Clark Gable. That's
(05:30):
really fun. And he co wrote Mad Love, the Carl
Freud movie with Peter Lourie.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And he also co wrote or maybe wrote the whole
script for A Vivacious Lady, the George Stevens movie. And
it was shot by Nicholas mussaraka the DP who shot
out of the Past in the Spiral Staircase. So there
is some pretty strong talent in front of and behind
the camera on this movie. Yeah, now, will now, do
(06:01):
you want to say what this movie is about or
would you rather I read a synopsis? As you know,
I can't do plot summaries.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Well I can I go ahead and give the synopsis,
and then maybe I can give a little bit of
background on the historical events that the novel was based on,
just to put the movie into context.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay, yeah, that sounds good. All right. So in seventeen
fifty nine, in Pennsylvania's Allegheny Valley, local settlers and Indian
fighters try to persuade the British authorities to ban the
trading of alcohol and arms with the marauding Indians. That
is the IMDb plot summary.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Oh, that's it, that's it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, very brief, I AMDB. If I go with the
letterbox synopsis, it's very long, IMDb. They like whatever their
character limit is, it's much lower than letterbox.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Well that's great. Well yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah.
So this is the novel was based on what's called
the Black Boys Rebellion, and this was some of the
fallout after the what's known as the Seven Years War,
(07:23):
the French and Indian War seventeen fifty four to seventeen
sixty three. The British were victorious. They acquired all these
territories in North America, parts of the sort of Northwest
Frontier of the time, going all the way up into Canada,
(07:45):
and the British government issued some people might remember from
high school history, the Royal Proclamation of seventeen sixty three, right,
and that forbade settlers from moving west beyond the Appalachian Mountains.
That was a treaty that's supposed to preserve the indigenous territory. Well,
(08:08):
don't need to tell you what the settlers did. They
pushed right on through and then got mad when the
indigenous people began to resist, most famously Pontiac's rebellion in
seventeen sixty three and seventeen sixty four. So I sound
like I know what I'm talking about. I did actually
(08:29):
get some notes together, so you can call this ironic
if you want to. But settlers in western Pennsylvania and Virginia,
despite you know, doing what they weren't supposed to and pushing,
pushing the western frontier, felt like they weren't getting enough
(08:50):
support from the crown right in the form of soldiers
protecting them from the natives in terms of trade and
so on. And they some began to feel that the
fact that the British were continuing to trade with the
(09:10):
indigenous tribes, specifically weapons and rum they were supplying. In
their view, the British were supplying the natives with the
very weapons that they were then turning on the settlers. Right,
So there was this sentiment that the British was putting
(09:33):
profits over people. Shocker, right, Like that doesn't define every
every relationship between the government and the government. Yeah, So
this this fiery tempered Scots Irish fellow named James Smith,
(09:55):
who had fought in the French and anymore hadn't been
in a captive of a tribe for I think it
says in the movie three Years. I don't know if
that's an exaggeration of the actual account, but Smith organized
a militia group that they called the Black Boys because
(10:16):
they painted their faces black and red and in order
to camouflage themselves in the film, that's straight up red face. Historically,
I can't say whether it was that from the accounts
that I read it, it's in order to they blackened
(10:38):
their faces so that they could camouflage themselves in the
woods war paint, right, Yes, So all of these guys
that were fighting with Smith were veterans of frontier warfare,
and they were both in the typical Appalachian Scott's Irish way.
They hated everybody, they hated. They didn't care for the British,
(11:02):
especially not the British authority, and they didn't care for
the tribes who were unhappy with their expansion. So a
British Indian agent named George Crohan, who is in the film,
is played by Dunlevy. Brian Dunlevy was transporting goods through
(11:25):
western Pennsylvania to Fort Pitt, and settlers, fearing that the
goods will be used against them in future raids, ambushed
and destroyed the wagon train, and that resulted in British
officials denouncing them and sending a detachment of soldiers to
arrest Smith and the men. But from the Black Boys perspective,
(11:50):
they were upholding the provincial law right. So there was
this kind of pre revolutionary struggle that sort of prefigures
on the Tea Party and the Boston Tea Party and
all of that of this rejection of British authority under
(12:10):
the auspices of provincial law and this demand that they
be allowed to more or less govern themselves. So the
British soldiers occupy Fort Loudon, they attempt to arrest Smith
and his followers, surrounded the fort, put it under siege,
(12:32):
and eventually force the British to negotiate and withdraw. So
this again is a sort of opening volley of what
would eventually erupt as the Revolutionary War.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Now did they actually now in the movie they this
is skipping ahead. But in the movie they shoot at
the fort. Yeah, and they and they, but they tell
people to shoot to like aim over people's heads basically,
so they don't actually kill anybody, and they just keep
shooting over and over again. It is there any evidence
that it played out like that at all? Or is
that just for the movie or do you know?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
From what I read there were few, if any casualties,
and the siege, which may have included some shooting, was
conducted at such a range, just like in the movie,
that the shots were unlikely to hurt anybody. Okay, gotcha,
But certainly you know, didn't help anybody's mood.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, being shot at it never helps anyone's mood.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You know, you're the centuries weren't able to you know,
just take a leak over the side of the outside
of the wall as they were accustomed.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, that's for sure. I will. I know, I know
you've got a lot to say about this movie. So
what did you think of Allegheny? Upright?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
So I find this movie really fascinating from a historical standpoint,
not just the real history that we've been referencing, but
from the standpoint of film history. Because this movie is
also nineteen thirty nine. It was shot after Stagecoach. Republic
(14:23):
had lent John Wayne to RKO, so this was not,
as you know, well resourced a film as Stage Coach,
but it was definitely a step up in terms of
budget from the Republic pictures, and it paired him again
with Claire Trevor, who again top line the movie. But
(14:47):
if you watch these movies back to back, which I'm
not advocating, you'll be quite amazed at how little Claire
Trevor is allowed to do in this film. She is
and I don't know if you agree with me or not,
but she is reduced and it's it's hurtful to see
(15:08):
her reduced to the thinnest characterization of a tough frontiers
woman who just can't quit this John Wayne fella who
who mistreats her. Jim Smith, I should say, who mistreats
her every step of the way. She's her character is
(15:30):
I don't want to use the word shrill, but I
don't know what other word to use.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Oh, yeah, she absolutely is.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
She's really given the bad end of the stick in
this this movie, and for her to top line and
and for it to come after such a you know,
her role in Stagecoach is in some ways a stereotypical role,
but as we discussed before, she gets to do so
much more with that. Yes, here, there is no nuance whatsoever.
(16:02):
She is the Scottish daughter of a Scottish man working
at a tavern and pining over Jim Smith, who is
constantly leaving for months, even years at a time because
he just has to see what's out there. You know.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, I mean she gives it. It's I mean, it's
definitely a very energetic performance, I would say, but it's
just so one note and that note is is a
note that I don't want to see played for the
amount of screen time that it is played for. It's
a shame because yeah, because she's so awesome in Stagecoach,
(16:43):
but here, like I would never say it's a bad
performance because I think she's probably doing what she's written
and directed to do. Yeah, but yeah, it just seeing
what she's capable of and then seeing what she's given here.
It's it's kind of a shame, really.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, and the top line the film and then be
sidelined by all the male characters in ways that are
rarely funny and instead just frequently uncomfortable. Is not that
great to watch her character. I mean, she plays Janie McDougall,
(17:21):
the tavern owner's daughter. She's a tomboy character. Her father
Mac McDougall, played by Wilfred Lawson in one of the
most irritating performances I've ever seen in cinema. Wilfrid Lawson
does a caricature of a drunk Scotsman that obliterates previous
(17:50):
stereotypical performances that one may have seen.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's brutal, he is, Oh, it's so awful, especially anytime
he gets really loud and yells and oh it's horrible.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, and it's it's almost a prototype for the drunken
hillbilly characters that we'll see in the decades to come.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, I felt like he he would be used better,
like in a rob zombie movie than in this because
he's so he's just so obnoxious.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's it's horrible, Rob Zomb, That's actually a good idea.
I was thinking of an episode of Dukes of Hazzard.
But yeah, if it were Dukes of Hazard as directed
by Rob Zombie, he would absolutely fit.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I would actually I would watch that, all right. I
would definitely check that out.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Let's do another another film version of Dukes of Hazard
but darker. Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, did you have any other thoughts or do you
want me to kind of share some of mine?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah? Well, I'm very curious because I know that you
watched this for the first time. This was shockingly my
fourth or fifth time, So oh wow, I've got not
you know, all bunched together or anything. But just over
the years I've got it was released on DVD, I
don't know, twenty years ago now, has not been upgraded
(19:16):
to Blu ray as of this recording. And you know,
every now and then over the years I've put it on,
and every time I'm reminded why it's both interesting and appalling.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yes, absolutely, yes, so asy as a movie like Jess,
as a kind of a piece of entertainment. I didn't
enjoy it. It does have a couple of moments that
I thought were pretty good now after being I don't
really know what word I would use it maybe stunned
the first time I saw John Wayne and the rest
(19:55):
of his crew in red face and red body, I
guess as well. In that action scene where they attack
the Native Americans in the river, that scene is pretty fun,
like when they're jumping out of the trees into the river.
That that I enjoyed. And there is an interesting moment
after this scene where John Wayne as Jim Smith, he
(20:20):
stops McDougall from killing one of the natives, and and
and then Wayne like he talks to him and you know,
whatever language the Native Americans speaks, and then for some reason,
the professor translates what's what the Native American is saying?
Like John Wayne can't understand, but but the the Native
(20:43):
American basically says that they wiped out all of these people.
And then a man I don't know, I actually don't
know the character, but somebody behind John Wayne or behind
you know, Jim Smith nudges John Wayne's arm and in
that hand he's holding a knife and he ends up
stabbing the Native American. Do you know what do you
want Tom, referring to.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah, I can't remember the name of the character, but
he is, he's a Tom.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Tom nudges his arm. Are you thinking of the Native
American or the to the guy who nudges John Wayne.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I'm thinking of the guy. I thought it might be Shoot.
I can't remember the character's name. I don't think it
was Tom Calhoun.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, but anyway, anyways, like after and so the Native America,
he's he's killed because the hand that the arm of
the man nudges, that hand is holding a knife and
he stabs him. And one thing that Jim Smith says,
it's kind of interesting. It is Jim Smith says that
(21:51):
white people taught the Native people. Uh no, no, we
we teach them everything. We teach them everything.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Don't we write how to be Treacherous? Right?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah? Which I thought was a very interesting kind of
commentary on like white people like teaching Native Americans how
to slaughter?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Did? Did?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
But that did that stand out to you at all?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah? That moment's important because it really differentiates John Wayne's character,
Jim Smith, from the rest of the mob, and because he,
you know, walks along the Natives as a scout and
and as someone who had been you know, captured and
(22:37):
adopted into the tribe for several years. We're given to
feel like he understands them as human beings better, right,
And even though the rhetoric of the film, as every
other character describes indigenous people is as nothing but bloodthirsty,
drunken savages, Myth occasionally points out where they get the rum,
(23:02):
you know where, and as you said, right, where they
learn their these tactics from, and so on. It's a
it's a it's a strange moment, right when when the
sort of hot headed character whose name we can't remember,
you know, forces or pushes Jim Smith's knife into the
(23:22):
captive uh, indigenous guy. Because throughout the rest of the
film we see these these settlers as more or less heroic. Yes,
but in that moment and a couple of you know,
a couple of other little ones, uh, there's a little
bit of acknowledgment or commentary on the settler's c culpability
(23:45):
in the whole conflict, which is you know, worth worth
worth noting.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, yeah, I thought that that was pretty interesting. And
of course, of course this is all this is in
the same movie where I think there is a point
I don't know if they say this exactly, but I
think McDougall or maybe the Professor says something along the
lines of like, the only good Indian is a dead Indian.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah, that's that's uh the.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
And this character is a hero in my movie.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Right, I think that's McDougall who says.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
That, Okay, good, because I already wanted most Anyways, the.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Professor character, who's played by John F. Hamilton, who's probably
best known as Pops in on the Waterfront, is a
bit more as the name implies, reserved and cerebral. But
that scene that we're that we're referencing is the only
scene in which indigenous characters actually appear. The rest of
(24:45):
the time, like as in most of Stagecoach, they're merely
spoken of as this constant dangerous presence, this impending sense
of the doom. The real opponents, the real enemies in
this film are the British soldiers and perhaps more importantly
(25:06):
and more to my heart, those goddamn capitalists the traders.
The traders who care nothing but for their profit margins. Right,
and there there's a great scene where all the Brian
Don Levy is together with all the rest of the
(25:27):
traders and there and they're talking about their profit margins
versus the the the dead, you know, settlers, and how
they'll manipulate the British soldiers into protecting the very goods
that they're supposed to be forbidding traveling through the territory
(25:52):
to eventually end up in the hands of the of
the indigenous. So we've got we've got quite a matrix
of conflict, right. You've got the so called bloodthirsty savage natives,
You've got the blood thirsty manufacturers traders of goods. You've
(26:14):
got the arrogant and rigid British soldiers, and then you've
got the practical, down to earth and constantly drunk settlers. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, now I.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Should say I'm making this sound better than it is.
This is I don't think as it would be anyone's
idea of unobjectively great movie.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Oh no, yeah, I don't see how it could be either.
I will say it.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I actually watched this twice because it it did. It
held my interest pretty well for about fifty minutes, and
then it really started to lose me, and so I
needed to watch it again. The scene where they shoot
up the fort that Sanders and Dunley vy are in.
(27:10):
I feel like that should have been the climax. I
can't believe the movie continues after that.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Right, yeah, that should have been the end.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
And let's see, where was I going with that? Oh yeah,
And I know John Wayne was not fond of this movie.
He said that he's only ever played one cautious part
in his life in Allegheny Uprising, and he said it
was a rather dull character. And I agree, it is
a very dull character. But I'll also add he doesn't
(27:45):
bring anything to this performance, and at times it's I
think it's laughably bad. His voice when he's wounded is
hilarious to me, Like his weak wounded voice or whatever
is so funny. But yeah, I'm trying to think, I
I if I have anything else to really add outside
(28:10):
of that. Now, now, the the the the credits. Now, now,
when the credits are are mentioned, you know you don't
have a great movie. But the credits illuminated by the
handheld lanterns was kind of fun.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Oh yeah, that was a really cool touch. Almost in
the in the pre presaging the rite of Paul Revere.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Right, yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
That credit sequences as a as a boy is coming
through and illuminating. Yeah, each each credit. Well, that was
that was pretty cool. It was a cool start.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah. Oh and you know one thing I wanted to mention.
I meant to say when you were talking about the
context this gives to Stagecoach is one thing that's kind
of interesting is this is an RKAO movie, and of
course RKO turned down Stage Coach and then they immediately
(29:08):
cast its stars in a movie the same year after
it was a success.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Didn't work out though, This movie lost over two hundred
thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That's why, Oh it did. Oh, I didn't look at
the box office.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Big money loser, partly because it ended up being it
was banned, right, it was banned in Britain.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Ya, it was banned in Britain, And I guess, and
it came out. Didn't this come out a week or
two after Drums along the Mohawk?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yes? Yeah, and it was right, it was. It was
considered harmful to British morale because it is very anti British.
He has not. I can't argue with that, right, And
I think that's really the most interesting thing about the
(29:58):
movie is, uh that it is very anti colonial and
it's it's released. You know, in a year where you know,
the United States has had just kind of allied itself
with Britain. Though we hadn't entered World War Two yet,
we were certainly providing support to the Allies. And so
(30:25):
this film was kind of contrary to the propagandistic sentiment
that we that we it was the wrong kind of propaganda.
It was propaganda that would have been fine any other time.
But the movie as as kind of representing the mythology
(30:49):
of the revolutionary spirit, I think really captures the at
least the textbook bullet points right. The British are overly
bureaucratic there in their snobby they look down their noses
at the unwashed settlers. The settlers, of course in this
(31:11):
region are primarily of Scott's Irish origin, so there's already
that tension. And George Sanders, of course the ultimate dismissive
elitist snob, right, I mean, the character that he's so
good at. He provides most of the tension in the
(31:32):
first half of the film, and then in the third
act the tact on third act that we both feel
like shouldn't have been there, which is the show trial
of Jim Smith, over which Sanders presides as Captain Swanson,
he provides the most comic relief absolutely before going down
(31:54):
in his own little tragedy. We should talk about that character,
Captain Swanson, who as a as a character flaw, does
not care to listen to what anybody has to say. No,
and he's great, you know, It's that it's a it's
a rule that I'm sure Sanders wasn't too interested in
(32:16):
either way. And I read that Claire Trevor said that
Sanders did not make many friends in the cast, kind
of ignored everyone and wouldn't even take his meals with him.
That may have been to get into character, or it
may have just been how he felt. But this character,
(32:36):
you know, Captain Swanson, follows orders to the letter, will
not deviate no matter what new information is presented. Looks
with utter disdain and contempt upon the settlers who are
unwashed and undisciplined. Couldn't seem to care less about the
(32:58):
indigenous people. He barely they barely even register to him. Yeah,
there might be some some people who get in his
way marching from point A to point B, but he's
particularly contemptuous of Jim Smith John Wayne, who refuses to
(33:19):
submit to authority.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, yeah, he's he's something. Now. He he does have
some good some good quotes. I mean you said he
was kind of the movies only he's really the only
source of humor.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, well he's he's kind of that. He's got the
the repeated lines of the prototypical Karen lines. Right, somebody
will say something he doesn't like, and he'll say, arrest
that man. Yeah. You could play a drinking game with
this movie. Every time George Sanders calls for someone to
be arrested, take a drink. You won't make it far.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
In the show, Well, I know that you loved this
line as well. But there's a great forensic scene, right
would you would you like to describe the scene.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Oh sure, yeah, So there there's this scene. So I
don't know how much I need to say to kind
of set this up, but basically, earlier in the movie,
Jim Smith is with another character, it might be Chill
Wills character. I can't remember, yes, who the actor was,
and I think Brian Dunleavy or somebody he was with
(34:36):
shoots Chill Wills and then John Wayne's gun goes off, right,
but his his rifle is like aimed up in the air,
so there's no way he could have shot him. But
they pin the killing on John Wayne Jim Smith. I'll
(34:57):
try to use the character's name, because sometimes sometimes I
end up using Saint John Wayne or Jim's or the
character's name, and I want to try to be a
little more consistent. But and so he's on trial for
this character's death. And Claire Trevor does a demonstration basically
showing how it would have been impossible for Smith to
(35:23):
be the one to have shot him. And so she
I think, she shoots like a shirt from far away
and then shoots it up close. Is that right?
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (35:36):
The size of the bullet holes on the burn.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yes, yes, and so and so there's all this smoke
in the room from the from the shots, and and
Sanders says, this is decidedly irregular and smelly.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
And then he follows it out, Oh, this is something
that I feel like I want to say to my
children so many, so many times, he goes, how many
more of these detonations are we to endure? What a
what a great line, And you know you have to
wait the whole movie to hear it, but it's almost
worth another great great one, you know, of course, the
(36:21):
the the audience in the in the courtroom erupt into
applause or booze as the trial goes on, and in
trying to call the the proceedings to order, Sanders says,
any lout who feels the need of airing his spleen
at the expense of the court's decorum will find himself
(36:44):
dining on bread and water. Just so so grandiloquent and
a perfect again contrast to the monosyllabic japing of McDougall.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, Sanders is definitely he is the only
the only actor, urber performer who he provides any any laughs,
and they are they are not intentional, but at least
it gives you something to enjoy, gives you something.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
And again, you know, in nineteen thirty nine, Wayne made Stagecoach, Yes,
but also what six or seven movies for Republican, including
at least three of the Three Musketeers films, and then
Allegheny Uprising for RKO, which is kind of a in
(37:44):
between movie, right, and as you noted, was rushed into
production after the successive Stagecoach, So he's still kind of
at the mercy of the lowest of low budget you know,
he hasn't hit yet, I guess. In nineteen forty he
does Dark Command with Raul Walsh, which I guess we
(38:04):
may talk about at some point.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, and then the non Western film The Long Voyage
Home for john Ford, his second john Ford film, also
nineteen forty, seafaring film in which Wayne plays a Swede
and it does attempt the accent on occasion.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Not great, No, it's not great.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
The movie itself is pretty amazing. Greg Toland was the cinematographer.
It's beautiful, but Wayne's Swedish accent, ain't it. But anyway,
back to Allegetting Uprising, and this extreme contrast between the
bureaucratic rigidity and class structure right of the British against
(38:52):
the egalitarian, informal, earthy settlers is is the key. I mean,
that's the big the big tape takeaway right, the revolutionary spirit,
frontier justice, you know something, man's just going to take
care of himself versus the impersonal bureaucratic law. And it's
(39:16):
very much part of the self mythologization of America in
both the propaganda films that that came out around World
War Two and the Western genre in general, which is
one of the reasons. I really pushed to see this
(39:36):
as a Western because I feel like it it is
part of that mythical lineage, right of yah, of manifest destiny,
of carving civilization out of the wilderness, and you know,
white by white men and coonskin hats wikiped. He actually
(40:00):
points out that this is one of four films in
which John Ware John Wayne wears the coonskin cap.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
So, well, what's this the Fighting Kentucky and in the Alamo?
What's what's another one?
Speaker 3 (40:14):
What's the other one? The Big Trail?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Oh, the Big Trail of course. Yeah, Oh my gosh,
how soon we forget? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:25):
But yeah, right, since Drums along the Mohawk comes out
the same year, so you see what john Ford is producing, right,
and Wayne is just not He hasn't broken through yet, right,
this is before he's any kind of superstar.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, in Northwest Passage might be the same year, or yes,
around the same time, the same year. Okay, yeah, so yeah,
so three sort of colonial Westerns, all all kind of
in a row. I No, I have not seen Drums
along the Mohawk in a long time, but yeah, is
(41:02):
it western enough to be?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (41:03):
And I know it's not. John Wayne but is it
Western enough to be covered on the podcast you think,
or is that more historical drama?
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I think so. I mean I'd argue for it, although
it certainly would be a stretch, okay, But in terms
of themes, I think it's consistent with where the Western
is beginning to go. I mean Stagecoach, right is the
is the is considered the moment, right the tipping point
(41:31):
where the Western kind of matures as a genre as
opposed to just to be action or with no coherent
I don't want to sound like a film professor or anything,
but prior to Stage Coach, there was no coherent ideology
right of the of the Western and with film, and
(41:52):
I think Allegheny Uprising does contribute to the ideology of
the Western in ways that are less nuanced than than
some of the great filmmakers like Ford, like Walsh. But
when you when people think of the stereotypical Western ideology,
this is it, right, the savage Indians, the the heroic frontiersman,
(42:17):
and the out of touch government, not to mention the
avaricious capitalists, right right, So it's all it's it's it's
all right there, all right?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Well, I yeah, I don't really have. I don't think
any any other really anything else to say about this movie.
Do you kind of do you have anything else?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
I think it's appropriate that this is one of our
shorter conversations. I agree, if there had been something, you know,
similar to Allegheny Uprising, we could have paired it with
we might have extended the conversation. But but for me,
you know, since we kind of have this John Wayne
journey that we're taken together, I really wanted to note
(43:06):
it as a not It's not significant enough to be
a counterpoint. It's more like a adjacent doorstop as stagecoach
like rides into legendary status as a film. Yeah, Allegheny
Uprising sits at this tipping point for the genre, tipping
(43:27):
point for the country. You know this again, World War
two has incalculable effects on the world and the film industry.
And yeah, just kind of a sign post, that's what
we'll call it. A sign post, Yeah, in the development
of the genre and the trajectory of Wayne's career. Right,
(43:50):
he's still a B movie actor in nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Oh absolutely, Yeah, a sign post. Yeah, illuminated by a
little handheld lantern.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
The British are coming slowly in information. You can't miss
them all.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Right, Well, well this was short, but like you said,
this was worth doing because it's a it's a fun
movie to talk about. I mean, I will say I'm
never gonna watch this movie again.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Twice twice, but.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I did watch it twice, and it was back to
back mornings. Yeah, that first morning, I yeah, I just
got I'd say around the fifty minute mark, I just
got a little distracted and a little bored. So I
felt like I owed it to the movie. I didn't
want to go into it and go into this really
(44:42):
only being moderately familiar with the first fifty minutes. So
I'm glad I put my phone and I left it
in the kitchen because that's what distracted me the first
time around. And then I just was like, Okay, I'm
just going to pay attention to this thing.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
It's I'm not recommending it to listeners, but I'm not
not recommending it either. The movies all over the place
in terms of its tone. You know, we didn't One
thing we didn't really get into was the fact that
the British Army, under the direction of Sanders' character, tortures
(45:23):
right basically tortures innocent settlers in order to flush Jim
Smith out, you know, of hiding when he's and it
changes the tone to this kind of oh okay, well,
this isn't just comic relief or an issue of you know, misunderstanding.
(45:46):
This is people are getting hurt here, and so it
kind of raises the stakes for that kangaroo court uh
sequence that we mentioned. But again, it's such a jarring
transition from the climax siege of the Fort, in which
it's kind of like watching the Return of the King.
You know, you think the movie is going to end, yeah,
(46:08):
several times before it actually does. But in those in
those continuations, those extensions, there's more stuff that complicates the
the the viewing experience. So yeah, I appreciate you you
including it in our ongoing discussion, and I'm happy to
move on to Dark Passage next.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Oh absolutely, all right, Well, well will Will Willere can,
where can people find you on social media?
Speaker 3 (46:39):
Now?
Speaker 2 (46:40):
You had mentioned you were going to up your social
media presence to me? Have you done that?
Speaker 3 (46:45):
I have posted more on Instagram primarily so W. W.
Doudson fifty two, the same handles on Twitter and Blue Sky,
but I have not yet caught up with those two
in terms of activity. However, in a couple of months,
I'm gonna be I won't be able to talk about
it yet, but maybe on the next episode. I'm going
(47:06):
to be part of a well gigantic to me but
very niche small event around Halloween that that I'll promote.
That'll be on Twitter and Blue Sky some some live tweeting.
What do they call blue tweets on Blue Sky Live?
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Oh, I have no idea. I have a Blue Sky.
I may have posted a couple times on it and
that and that's it. For some reason. Yeah, it's like
it's too new to me and I just don't even
think about it.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
I'm so Yeah, I remain an aspirational social media user,
but Instagram has has pretty much. If I'm if I'm
involved in anything worth knowing about, it's on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Okay, all right, well we'll This was tremendous. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Oh. Thanks, Yeah, it's always great to talk with Yea.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
I'pe enjoyed this episode. I really enjoy talking about Allegheny
uprising with Will. But I will say, to take a
line from my favorite movie podcast film Junk, I'm retiring
this movie. I will not be watching it again, but
it was worth watching so Will and I could have
this conversation. What did you think of this week's episode
and what John Wayne movies are you most looking forward to?
Will and I covering. You can let me know by
emailing me or on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook, and all
(48:26):
the links are in the episode description. Next week, David
Lambert is returning and we've got a pretty special episode
for you. We're going to be talking about the Lancer
Pilot and its connection to Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a
Time in Hollywood and its novelization. I'll leave a link
to the Lancer Pilot and the description for anyone who
wants to check it out before next week. Until then,
if you're looking for more film related podcasts, please check
out other shows on the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.
(48:49):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 4 (48:54):
Hello, Filthy movie lovers. My name is Gentry Austin Now
and we're the hosts of the Sin Syndicate Film podcast
for Something weirdos Anti Criterion Brose and Joseph Sarno of
Ficionados join us semi weekly as we peer into the
adults only theaters in sticky floored cinemas of the golden
(49:18):
age of sexploitation, when the morals were loose, the laws
were murky, and the intercourse was all simulated. Find us
now on the Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the
Someone's Favorite Productions podcast Network. Please please select the link
in the description.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!