Episode 14: Gunsmoke Episodes 4-6 w/ Dan Budnik

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome back to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys, a classic Western
film and TV podcast. My name is Hunter. This week
Dan Budnick is back, and this time we're covering episodes
four through six from the first season of gun Smoke,
and we're going to get right into it. Here is
our conversation.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Gun Smoke, starring James Arnest as Matt Dilla blalock to
you by Ellen Are Ellen am the modern cigarette that
gives you a full exciting flavor.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
What's the miracle to him?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Dan, Welcome back.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
Hey, it's good to be back. Nice to be back
chatting about mister Dylon and the Gang or Marshall Dylon.
I call it. He has me call him mister. I
don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, it's funny. When I'm taking notes, I sometimes I
say Marshall. Sometimes I say Matt. Sometimes I say Matt
Dylon or Marshall Dylon. Yes, I kind of address him
in every way that he can be.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
And every once in a while when I just kind
of hear him and I'm I look at the screen,
I think of James Arness, right.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Occasionally, Yeah, but yeah, but it's good.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
It's lovely to be back for the second, second round
of Gunsmook.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah. Now, before we start talking about gun smoke, can
you tell listeners what shows you're currently covering on eventually Supertrain?

Speaker 4 (01:47):
Oh sure, yeah. Right now we are covering let's see,
we're in the sixties, the seventies, the eighties. Right now.
In the sixties, myself and my friend Mitchell Hadley, who
does the It's About TV website, who's an author, we
are discussing Garrison's Guerrillas, which is from sixty seven to
sixty eight, which is basically the Dirty Dozen for TV

(02:07):
with four guys instead of a dozen. And it's kind
of a spin off sort of from Combat but not quite.
And that's a fun show. It's an adventure show. It's
a war show basically, like a sergeant Garrison I think
he's a sergeant and four criminals go into Nazi parts

(02:28):
of Europe during World War Two and try to and
get up. It's like Mission impossible, Dirty Dozen kind of thing.
It's a lot of fun. The second show, myself and
my friend Christopher bly mister BLI I call him. We're
discussing a mid seventies cop show called Bronc starring Jack Palance,
Sir Jack Palance, created by Carol O'Connor Archie Bunker, and

(02:51):
it's it's very much He's he's a he's a good
cop and a bad town and he's just trying to
live his life with his daughter. And his life was
killed a few years ago by some crooks and his
daughter was crippled. And now he's just out there, you know,
you know, you know, picking getting getting bad guys off
the streets, smoking a pipe, dressing pretty cool and just

(03:14):
being Jack Palance, you know that kind of thing. And
third one and this show's almost done. We're almost done
with this Misfits of Science from the mid eighties, which
is basically sort of like kind of like an X
Men kind of show with main scientist guy. And then
one two, three people who have magical powers. One of

(03:35):
them is Courtney Cox. And I was created by James Perriot,
who created the very entertaining time travel show Voyagers, which
aired a few years before that. So so Garrison's Girl's
Bronc and Misfits of Science Misfits of Signs will be
done in a few episodes. And we already I already
got a brand new old show lined up ready to
replace it?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
All right? Excellent? Yeah, everyone should definitely go check out
eventually Super Trained. Yeah. I actually I love hearing about
these series. I mean a bunch of them. I mean
I've I probably never would have heard of if you
hadn't talked about them, Like I think. The only one
I'm really familiar with is Eerie Indiana. Oh, yes, you
covered it at some point, and I have checked out Masquerade,

(04:18):
which you covered with Amanda.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
It's alternate. It's like most Glenn A. Larson shows. Part
of sometimes it's really wonderful and sometimes it's super dippy. Yes,
that's just that's just a Glenna Larson show. But it
is a fun It is generally a fun show. All right.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Excellent. Well, we are covering three episodes of gun Smoke tonight.
We're starting off with episode four and the title for
this episode is Home Surgery, and it was adapted from
the radio series and this story was told twice for
radio in episode twenty one and then again in episode
two seventy two. It originally aired on on October eighth

(05:00):
in nineteen fifty five, and the radio script and teleplay
were written by John Meston and I don't. I can't
remember if I actually mentioned this the last time we recorded,
but he was a co creator of the radio series,
and he wrote one hundred and eighty three of the
episodes for radio and they were four hundred and thirteen total,
and he also was credited he with one hundred and

(05:21):
ninety six of the episodes for TV.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Wow, that's a lot.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Oh, it's a ton It is nice.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
It is nice. I mean one of the one of
the things you see, like like we're like in watching BRONC,
Like BRONC has twenty four episodes and they're like, like
twenty eight people wrote them. You know what, why are
so many people writing? You know? That's I know that's
some the way they did that with some shows. But
I do prefer a show that has like a smaller
group of writers, like say Rockford Files, which is yeah,

(05:51):
je Nita Bartlett, David Chase, and Steven Kanell compared to
BRONK or everybody in Studio City is sending a script
in kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Right, Yeah. And Messen he did mostly work in radio.
He worked on Escape and Suspense, and then he also
worked on another Western series called Fort Laramie, and he
did write a couple other episodes for other TV shows.
He wrote I think a couple episodes of Little House
on the Prairie, and he wrote a couple episodes of

(06:22):
a show you mentioned on our Kind of Western TV
Overview episode. He wrote a couple two episodes of Heck Ramsey.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
I gotta see. I don't know if I've seen those.
It's a good show, hick Ran It is a pretty
good show.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it. So that's one I
need to check out for sure. Now, all three of
the episodes we're talking about were directed by Charles Marcus
warren So, and we won't have a new director until
episode twenty seven. And so yeah, with that we can
kind of get into the episode. Dan, can you give
us a plot synopsis.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Of course. So in this one, Matt and Chester are
heading back from somewhere other they they they're they're in
the middle of nowhere. They're one hundred miles from from
Dodge City. It's the morning. They for some reason, they
don't have any food. They didn't bring any food on
their trip. I don't know why, but that's one of
the sort of ongoing things throughout us trying to get
food and as they're getting up about to hop on

(07:18):
their horses and begin traveling back to dodge. Someone shoots
at them. It's a young woman named Holly who was
also out looking for food, and she finds out the
matt is a marshall and says, well, my daddy's in trouble. Okay,
let's let's go. Let's go see what's happening. So they
go back to their their piece of land and go
into the house. And mister Hawtrey is the dad's name,

(07:39):
and he is in bed, and he was thrown from
a horse and unfortunately his and he broke his leg.
He hurt his leg and he got a cut on
his leg, and unfortunately his leg is infected with gang green.
And I don't know if we're go too deeply into
gang green, but I may have done some research on
gang God. I wish I didn't. Uh, that's something I

(08:03):
wish I'd passed on. But but but basically, he's got
bad gangreen. It's in his leg and gangreen spreads, uh
and and and it and it's sort of like spreading
towards his heart and spreads in his heart and it's
the death the death of tissue basically, and and so
it spreads to his heart, it'll kill him. So they
have to amputate his leg. So while Mad is doing that,

(08:27):
we also learned about the other person on on the
on the on the property who's not there, a guy
named Ben Walling who's kind of, I guess, sort of
their hired hand, who went out a few days ago
with the horse and wagon to try to find a
doctor to help mister Hawtrey. But he hasn't come back yet.
And I guess uh, Ben uh has a bit of
a shine on for for Holly. I I don't quite

(08:51):
think Holly fully reciprocates, but mister Hawtrey does not like Ben,
and so they're not waiting for Ben anymore. It's time
to amputate the legacy, if we can say, mister Hawtrey
before the gang greet spreads too far. And I'm going
to stop right there before the home surgery begins.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
All right, Well, Dan, very well done. Now. I did
wonder while I was watching this episode, what's considered the
first bottle episode of a TV show?

Speaker 4 (09:18):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (09:19):
And I looked it up, and the term was originated
when Leslie Stevens, who created The Outer Limits, said that
about an episode called controlled experiment. He said that he
it was like a genie being pulled out of a bottle.
But this really felt like a bottle episode to me,
with its small cast and just like a couple locations.

(09:42):
But what did you think of this one, Dan?

Speaker 4 (09:44):
I really liked him. I really quite enjoyed it. It really
is it, It really is the Matt Dylan show. Chester
doesn't Chester doesn't do much but kind of stand around,
and in fact, he kind of at one point says
when it comes to the amputation, like I don't have
the I think he says the spirit for it or
something like that, and so it really is kind of
like Matt being it's it's, it's, it's it's. It's a

(10:07):
bit of a variation of a couple episodes ago with
that guy, that jerk who was in town Riley everybody
up who kept slipping through the loopholes and they got
away scott free. This ends up being sort of like
that too, where you we're not to spoil it too much,
but Matt really doesn't succeed in the end, but he
really tries, and there's a sense of of of of

(10:30):
of hope when he's there that that all may be well,
and even when all isn't well at the end, there's
still a feeling that that life will go on and
and and uh there there will there will be happiness
for Holly and hopefully you know, we'll throw Ben Walling
there in prison for a long time. But they're overall,
it's a lovely episode. And and like like you said,

(10:50):
it's it's basically it's a lot of it is in
the bedroom, mister Hawtrey is in bed. Occasionally there are
bits of it in the kitchen, and or or they're
just right outside the place. It's sort of these three locations. Yeah,
I was trying to think about the first bottle. The
earliest one I could think of is from an early
Twilight Zone, but that would have been four or five
episodes after this, the one with the old woman in

(11:12):
the basement apartment who is afraid that death is going
to come get her. Oh, and the whole episode Nothing
in the Dark, I think is what it's called. And
the whole episode is her in this basement like Lavern
and Shirtley style apartment, and it's just her inside the
apartment the whole time, I believe it, and she goes
out in the end, we may see a brief exterior

(11:33):
in the beginning in the end, but it's basically someone
comes to her door with to ask her something, and well,
a couple of people come in the door, and she
keeps thinking it's death. But the whole thing takes place
in the little room. But I'm sure there was something.
There's probably an I Love Lucy. How long was she
locked in that freezer in that one episode? Oh? Yeah,
because what that count as like a model episode if
she spends the whole time locked in a freezer or

(11:55):
locked in a closet or something like that, Because there
were certainly episodes like that that they wouldn't have probably
called bottle episodes. They were just right. But having said
all that, that has nothing to do with the gun
smoke episode. We're talking about it, and I apologize, but yeah, overall,
it's it's it's it's quite it's it's it's it's it's
uh well written. I really liked the mister Hawtrey character Holly.

(12:20):
At first, I thought Holly was forgive me, maybe a
bit touched, like she'd been out in the sun too long. Yeah,
but by the end it's quite love. I mean the
closing scene where she she she she she comes up
with the flowers from her Again we're we're spoiling it,
but it's a gun smoke episode.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Everyone, Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
And she's got like and she took flowers from her
dad's grave. And she's like, you know, do you think
you'll mind that I took flowers from his grave? And
and and and Marshall Dillance is something like, you know,
you know, I'm sure he'll be absolutely fine with that.
He's got a whole prairie of flowers to look at
kind of thing. And it's it's a it's a it's
a really sweet moment. And then and and and and

(13:00):
James Arnes is really good in it. He's he's really
he's he's really like he he's very charismatic, and he
holds the screen and and he just you you like
watching him do stuff, and he feels even you know,
most of the amputation they obviously they gloss over, but
there is there is a feeling of like dread as

(13:21):
it's approaching. And then when it's kind of happening and
they're you know, and Chester and and how they are
sitting in the kitchen, You're like, what's going on in
the next room? And what and when when when Matt
comes out and says to Chester basically like, you know,
going there and clean up or something you expect like
him to come out with like a lag wrapped in
a sheet a moment later or something like that. He doesn't.

(13:41):
He doesn't, Right, we're classier than that, ladies and gentlemen.
But but overall, it's it's it's a it's a fun
it's it's actually kind of an episode that I I
almost kind of expected would have maybe been later on
in the series, since it's so focused on just Matt
being away from Dodge City and we haven't really fully settled.
I don't feel like, yeah, so now that doesn't matter

(14:03):
because we've got four hundred and fifty more episodes. But
but but at this point, it's it's kind of interesting
that they did this. And like I said, Chester doesn't
do much, but he is there moral support and and
overall it's it's a sharp episode. And then when Ben
shows up and he's clearly a part of my friendship
douchebag completely and he's just and he's just he's just

(14:25):
unpleasant And the more you think about like what he's done,
the grosser it gets, Like the more he's like, oh God,
this guy. But but overall it's just it's it's well written,
it's it's well directed, it's it's it's it's got it's
got a sense of doom to it, but also a
bit of hope. And then, like I said, even after

(14:46):
the tragic part, there's still a feeling of hope, which
is which is quite lovely. And again, I got to
the episode and I thought, for some reason, I can't
imagine people like in nineteen fifty five watching this. It
seems somehow like, I mean, more mature than I thought
like people. Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't know. That's

(15:07):
it's just every time I watch something like this, which
it's really it's a quiet drama, yeah, twenty five minutes,
and it's like you said, I'm like a bottle episode
quiet drama, and I can't imagine just like like everyone
is just like like just watching this, and I guess
I can. But it's just kind of fun to think about,
you know, because you think I think of the fifties,
I think a sci fi, I think a lucy uh

(15:29):
you know, I don't really think of quiet, serious, mature
Western drama.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
And yeah, especially on the small screen.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
Yes, yeah, so so overall, Yeah, it's a thumbs up.
I may have rambled a bit there, but I'm trying
to get everything and I could think of about the
episode at once. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't, But
thumbs up, this is a good one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Now, I I enjoyed the episode. I will say it.
I don't know if it's what I really want from
gun Smoke.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
I'd rather see and Chester in Dodge City. But I
did enjoy the episode. Now, one thing, it doesn't open
with Matt Dylon on boot Hill, and neither do episodes
and episodes five and six Stne either, which I kind
of miss. I felt like those scenes really helped set
the tone. Now it is possible that all of the

(16:21):
tombstones had gone missing, they had been carried away by
a strong wind.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Blowed them all up a tree or something like that.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
But but yeah, I did miss those those scenes and
Matt Dylan's voiceover. But I thought the actor who played
mister Hawtrey Joe DeSantis, he was excellent, like one of
the better guest star performances that we've seen so far,
which I know we're only four episodes in, but I
really did think he was good, and he he was

(16:54):
in four episodes of gun Smoke total, but this is
his only his only appearance in season one, so you
and I might never see him again. But yeah, he
was really good. Gloria Talbot plays Holly Hattree. Oh yeah,
and she's in two other episodes of gun Smoke. And
now you you mentioned that she seemed to be like

(17:16):
touched early on, and I am starting to wonder if
Charles Mark was Warren is really drawn to distant, kind
of oddball characters or performances, because have you noticed that
there's at least one character in each episode who seems
like they're kind of in a daze at all times.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
They're a slightly different show, or they're just like like
they're they're they're they're slightly off the timeline or something
like that. They're just a few seconds different for something
was weird.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, she was definitely just pretty interesting. And I
did listen to both versions that they did for radio.
Oh and in the radio version, she's just an ordinary
girl in those, and they did change her name. Her
name is Tara in the radio version. And there really
aren't many other major differences between the radio and TV episodes. Besides,

(18:12):
like her most it's mostly just her character name in
the way that she's performed. But one difference between radio
and TV that I've noticed kind of in general is
in the radio there are more moments where the dialogue
isn't just about what's happening in the plot. Like an

(18:33):
example from this episode, at some point, Chester tells Matt
that being around Tara has made him realize how much
he'd like to have a daughter of his own someday.
And Matt, of course, is always the more cynical, probably
like realist of the two, says that like in our
line of work, it's not always a good idea to

(18:54):
have a family or something like that. And there aren't
many moments like that that we've seen in the TV
show so far that I can recall, But that was
just something that stood out to me in the radio version.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
Yeah, I should have listened to those. I haven't heard
the radio stuff in a while, but I remember when
I did listen to it about ten years or so ago,
about one hundred or so episodes. I really enjoyed the
radio version. I thought it was really very good.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, I think the radio version is excellent.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Yeah, I think I've got the episode playing here, and
I think the thing with with with Holly is sort
of like the Choices when when she arrives gets off
the horse to talk to them, sort of the strange
sort of choice. Well, not strange. I mean, she she's
probably maybe a little shy or a little like she's
got her mind on other stuff kind of thing, but
just the way she likes she's talking to the matt Chester,

(19:45):
she never she never really looks at them until the
very end of the scene when she says she's scared.
She's always kind of looking around, looking over here, looking
over there, looking in the coffee pot, looking here. She's
just kind of constantly moving around and looking somewhere else
as she's talking. It's kind of a that's kind of
fun actually, but it's also kind of you watch her

(20:05):
and you think you've been alone with your dad too
long in that house. Yeah, you should come out down
and see some other people.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
And it is funny because she's very kind of like
she she's not putting in much effort to get help.
It seems like it seems like she's like, I'm just
casually hunting my daddy's sick. I'm trying to get some food.
But it's I'm not in a big hurry.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
She she must really trust that that that Ben there
is gonna do something. But he I mean, I could
tell the moment I saw him, I thought, I do
like that when when he comes in, he comes in
with the horse cart, and you know, he's like, well,
you know I went out to uh uh, you know,
I forget exactly what he says, but you know, well,
you know I went out to get a doctor. And

(20:51):
Matt's like, yeap, where is he?

Speaker 5 (20:54):
Where?

Speaker 4 (20:54):
Where's the doctor?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Oh, And then he tells this a story about oh,
I lost the horses, and then he thinks, so you
were chasing the horses around for a week. That seems
that seems a bit odd. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Now I think the idea, now, actually, this is something
I want to talk about. So the idea of Matt
Dillon being capable of performing an amputation successfully. Now, I'm
I'm guessing that there were soldiers and other non medical
people who attempted amputations at the time. Like I'm sure

(21:32):
that there probably some people were like, hey, I'm just
gonna die from Gang Green, because I'm either dying from
that or I'm dying from you performing an amputation when
you really shouldn't be. But I'm sure there must have
been other people who couldn't just stand by and watch
a loved one die. But what do you think? Do

(21:56):
you think it's like absurd that it's performed successfully, or
like what do you think of that?

Speaker 4 (22:06):
You know? You know what? I just just pardon me,
purely because Matt's the hero. I could see him doing
it successfully. The more I thought about it, the more
I thought, huh, I I honestly don't. I honestly don't know.

(22:29):
I'd like to think he could, yeah, if he needed to.
I mean, i'd hate to think it turns out in
the end, well we did an examination and the amputation
killed him.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Sorry Matt, Yeah, that would have been a real down er.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
Yeah, but I mean i'd like to think. And I mean,
the thing is too mister Hawtrey. I know he's like
out drunk when he when it's happening, but he does
seem to know a thing or two about it as
they're sort of discussing it, like how to do it,
like how to wrap up the wound and stuff like
the stump and stuff like that. And I mean, I
I mean, I imagine lots. I imagine a saw. I

(23:09):
imagine lots of yelling. I imagine blood everywhere. I imagine
like a torch or something to cauterize the wound. Yeah,
I don't know, but I mean they handle it pretty calmly.
There's no there's no blood, there's no no screams, there's
no yelling. It's all seems pretty quiet. I guess he's
really They said he drank a jug of that liquor,
so if that's good stuff, he's probably super is he's

(23:31):
anesthetized beautifully, I think, But yeah, I don't. It's it's honest, honestly,
I am. Part of me thought, I feel like you
wouldn't be able to do that, Matt. But then another
part of me thought, well if it, if it continues
the story, I'm perfectly okay with him doing that. Uh

(23:53):
So yeah, it's it's a triggy one, yeah, because because
I mean, I'm in two minds of it, so the
the the the uh this sort of realist mind and
then sort of just my writer viewer mind, which is like, hey,
if he says he can, he can, I'm not gonna
argue with him. I'm not a us Marshal as far
as we know.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, you know, then one thing they talk about is
they talk about using horse hair to like tie yes
the arteries. That seems like it would require some level
of expertise, But you know what, I think we should
just accept that he can do it.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
I think so, I mean, if it's if it's now
this is I'm going to make it sound like I'm
like I'm preparing a bowl of cereal in the morning
or something like that. But if it literally is like
knocking him out so he's completely gone, maybe maybe put
maybe putting some sort of something on the I don't
know where you're gonna saw I don't know. I don't

(24:50):
know if they had alcohol or anything. He could have
port some alcohol, right, yeah, and just sawing away and
then getting in the end it just just turn a
kitting it off, cauterizing it and then leaving it. I mean,
I know, like again that sounds like I'm just preparing
a bull of like cereal or something like that. But
if if it's just that, I mean I wouldn't want

(25:12):
to do it and just doesn't want to do it.
But but I mean, I know there's more to it
than that. Everybody. If someone's listening right now, who's in
a regular you know, regularly amputates body parts and you're
laughing at me, laugh away. I know I sound foolish,
but if it, if it truly is like if I
mean it's got like like like you know, jam in
a pen in someone's throat for a tracheotomy or something

(25:34):
like that. You know, when needs must, you gotta just
do what you gotta, you know, take the take the
take the you know Occam's razor it you got to
go the straightest route. You gotta saw it off it, uh,
you know, horse hair it off, cauterize it, and just
hope you're good and hope you're good. You know, I
don't I don't think there's not there's not too much

(25:55):
time to get a book learning it or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
You just gotta At this point, I'm actually kind of
sorry I ever doubted Matt Dillon. Yeah, because it is it.
It seems pretty simple now.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Going to be messy? Is it gonna hurt? Is it
going to be unpleasant? Yes? Yes, and yes. When the
leg is off and blood is spraying everywhere you're tying down,
is that going to be one of the worst things
in your life probably, But once you do it, it's
done right and so and and and hopefully you've done

(26:32):
it correctly. And he seems to have done it correctly.
I mean he dies because they just didn't get there
in time, right and so. So yeah, I don't know
if anyone listening is good at amputating legs. Please please
message us and just let us know. Is it doesn't mean?
Is it is it? Is it as simple but unpleasant
as we think it is. I mean, look at how

(26:54):
many slasher films, you know, body parts go flying all
over the place that that looks easy?

Speaker 2 (27:00):
It really does.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Yes, James Arness, he's a big guy, right, He's a.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Big stroke guy definitely.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
So it's like with the saw he's going through the
I'm not going to go into it. I just said
this myself talking about I thought, you know, if the
episode's not going to bother with it, why am I
going out about it? All? Right now?

Speaker 2 (27:20):
I do want to talk about Ben Walling, the villain
in this one. He was played by Right King, and
he is in eight episodes of gun Smoke, and he
was in a bunch of big Western TV series. He's
in eleven episodes of Wanted Dead or Alive. He's in
five episodes of Have Gun, Will Travel, And we were
talking about The Twilight Zone earlier. He's actually in the

(27:42):
episode of The Twilight Zone that Dennis Weavers starred in
called shadow Play. Yes, yeah, that which is a good
that's a good episode. Yeah, and he is he's I
think he's fine in this, But the showdown at the
end between him and Matt Dillon is it's too long

(28:02):
and dragging it out makes it kind of like a
comedic set piece. Like the way Ben Walling just stands
there with the rifle for and how long it takes
Matt to finally grab the barrel of the gun is
just silly to me, Like maybe they could have had
been like AI aim the rifle at Matt's head and

(28:23):
then lower it down a couple of times or something
besides him just having the gun like basically aimed away
from from Matt. Yeah, and there's also there's not a
lot of coverage, which is probably like this is very
standard like yea like televisual kind of filmmaking. But I

(28:45):
do think if there were maybe some more angles to
cut to maybe that would help. But yeah, this moment,
this moment I did think was kind of amusing.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
It's it's likely, yeah, slightly true, because you never you
could tell instantly that he's not going to shoot anybody, right,
And it's just a question of them. It's him him
saying what he's going to say, and then Matt saying
what he's going to say, and then taking the gun
from him. And I don't want to say everyone should
have talked faster, but maybe they could have sped it

(29:15):
up just a little. I don't know, but uh, yeah,
it is kind of a strange scene. He and he
looks I don't know if like Ben's hat too big
or something like that, but there's something there's or his
like he's his closer. There's something about him standing there
with the gun where he looks a little he looks
a little too small for everything, like he's shrinking or

(29:35):
something during the scene. I don't know, but he just
looks kind of really small, and as Matt gets closer,
he becomes really he seems to get smaller. Plus there's
a there's a like a big old tree branch right
above his head that the wind keeps blowing around, and
it looks like it's gonna like knock his hat off
a couple of times. So it's it's, yeah, it's a

(29:59):
tricky because you know it it's succeeds in doing what
it has to do. But it could have been more dramatic,
it could have been a little more I don't know, Sharper, Yeah,
because overall, it's it's the episode's written very well, right,
I just I just think right there, I think like
it's just it's it's just there's no there's no sense

(30:23):
of real much suspense or anything. It just kind of
it just kind of is. And Matt. You almost wish Matt,
they just kind of completely ignored him. Yeah, you know,
I almost as she had just gone, you know, I'm
gonna go in and see how he's doing. You know,
I'm gonna go in and see how if Holly needs
any help, you stay right there, get away from me,
and he just kind of walked around him, and then
it was and maybe just left him standing there, just

(30:45):
like I wasn't gonna shoot anybody. I am a dope, you.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
Know, and there you go.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
There. I like that. I like that better.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
I like that much better.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
Rather than disarming him, just just not even acknowledging that
he is a threat at all.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, that that is much better.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
Yeah, but I mean it does it does, it doesn't.
I don't think it doesn't ruin the episode, because the
good thing is right after that's done, the episode is over,
like thirty seconds later.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
There's a very brief scene, the scene with the flowers
on the wagon, and then it's it's and that's a
sweet moment, and then it ends. So so it's like,
if if it had sort of lingered much longer, I
think it would have. It might have. I don't not
damaged the episode, but but maybe Ben problematic. But as
it is, it's just sort of like, eh, we've seen better, Yeah,

(31:39):
and we'll see better, but overall, over overall, I think
once we lose mister Hawtrey, who's the most interesting character,
m hm, we're kind of a we we do we
don't have the We we have Holly, who's sweetened, who
seems to be getting better by the end. Yes, but
be Ben the But the thing with the thing with
Ben is that we don't we about him basically more

(32:02):
than we sort of see him in the episode almost. Yeah,
and so that's that's that's that's that's not a problem
really but but it's almost like you think, like, was
he should he have had another scene or something because
like he or I don't know, Yeah that I guess
yeah after if there's to me, if there's a flaw,
that's probably that that and the And it's also anticlimactic too,

(32:27):
because because mister Hawtrey has already died and we know
we have to leave, and this little jerk coming out
there and doing that is is it is anticlimactic. If
maybe he had stormed in when he was about to
do the amputation and said like, don't do that, and
you thought he was doing it because he didn't want
Matt bungling it, but he's actually doing it because he

(32:49):
wants mister Hawtrey to die. Yeah, that that might have
been something too, But but as it is, yeah, yeah,
you're right, it's it's it's sort of it's anticlimactic, and
it's not as suspenseful or or as interesting as it
is it as it could have been Slash should have been.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, but I still think overall, I did enjoy the
the episode. But yeah, I don't really have anything else
to add on this one. Do you have any other
notes or anything?

Speaker 4 (33:15):
I don't think so I'm just gonna have a look
at my notes. I spilled I mentioned this year before
the recording, I spilled water on this page, so some
of my notes are shmered. So I I just have
I have words like I have gang Green, Prairie chickens,
horsehair booze. Uh the horses got away? What a dope

(33:36):
thatch guy is? Yeah? Hope So and I And one
of the things I like I liked about the episode.
I and this happens with all the episodes, but it's
kind of nice here because it's it really is like
even with the big Showdown, it's it's very sort of
calm and low key throughout the whole thing. It never
really rises above mister Hawtrey and its loudest levels sort of.

(34:02):
And but there is something kind of quite quite lovely
about just the you have the final moments with the flowers,
and the music's playing really soft and low, and then
they begin to leave the cameras like up on a
crane and they passed the camera and the camera gets
to follow them, and the music is like bum bum
bum bum, and it just goes and that's like the

(34:25):
loudest the episode gets. And there's something about that that
that is ultimately kind of like whoh, that's a bit
much and also kind of cool at the same time,
like that's the end of this gun smoke come back
next time, sort of like a like a book end,
like like right, it ends the moment the music gets
out of hand. But but that that's all all I

(34:47):
had was the big swell of music in the end.
So yeah, so overall, I give it a thumbs up down.
Not the best one we've watched so far, but but
I think as long as mister Hawtrey is alive, I
really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yes, yeah, is at his best when he when he's uh,
when he's living for sure. Now, one thing I want
to mention. Okay, so this episode, well, I think Matt
does tell mister Hawtrey that he'll make sure that Holly
is taken care of, and that's something that is going

(35:19):
to come up later. And I I and I have
an idea that I want to present to you, but
I will wait until after our discussion on episode six.
I think this is I have an idea that I
think you'll really enjoy.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
I can't wait. I do I do like that that
is that is a really lovely moment where he's he's
on like he's I forget, is that after the amputation
or before? You know?

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I I think it's afterwards, because I think it's after
mister Hawtrey knows that it's getting to his heart, Yeah,
that he's.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
Going to pass and and and there's just something really
wonderful about him, Matt just being so reassuring that like,
you can you know, I'm sorry we were too late.
You know, you can pass on to wherever you're going
to next and just know that you're the person you
love most of this earthwork. And we're going to make
sure she's okay. Yeah. And that's a really really sweet moment.

(36:12):
That's why you like Matt, right, I mean he just
cut the guy's leg off three hours before and now
he's doing this. I mean that's the way. That's a hero, everybody.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Oh, absolutely, Yeah, it's true, a true hero. All right, Well,
let's get into episode five. So this is This episode
is titled Obi Tator and this episode originally aired on
October fifteenth, nineteen fifty five, and the script was adapted
by Charles Marquez Warren from a script written for the
radio by John Meston. And I'll go ahead and talk

(36:45):
about the guest stars here. Royal Dano plays Obi Tator
And he was in thirteen episodes of gun Smoke, and
he's got a pretty wild somography actually, And he was
in a lot of other Western TV show and some
movies not we're not really in big parts. But he
was in the Great Northfield, Minnesota Raid, and he was

(37:07):
in Love Yeah. And he was in The Outlaw Josie
Wales and not in uh oh. And he was also
in Messiah of Evil, which is a horror movie that
I'm a pretty big fan of.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
That's right, that's a great movie. Yeah, he wasn't that,
Yeah he isn't that? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (37:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (37:23):
Yeah, yeah. And he was even in two the Second Story,
wasn't he You know.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
I haven't seen House too, Actually, I think he's in
that one.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
He's in one of them. He shows up as like
an old Western ghost.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah. And he was in a couple episodes of Twin Peaks,
so he just has like a yes he was Yeah.
He has an incredible filmography, and he's.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Got that face you know right when you see him,
even if you don't know the name, because I forgot
the name. What I spent the first time I watched
this going who is that? I know that guy? And
then the moment I saw the name, I was like,
I chastised myself harshly.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, as you should. Everyone should. No Royal Dana.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
Yeah, now we want to watch a Siah of Evil again.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Oh it's so good. Yeah. And then the villains are
played by Now this last name is it shouldn't be
tough to pronounce, but I have a hard time saying it.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
So is.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
One of them's name is named John Shephard. It's like
s H E p O D D Shephard. Yeah, yeah,
I really don't like his name.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
That seems like a typo.

Speaker 5 (38:36):
It does.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
But I looked at IMDb and I was just like, Okay,
is this really what it is? Shepherd? I don't like it.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
Someone at Els Island got a name misheard something.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Or something like that, and he he really He doesn't
have a whole lot of credits. But the other villain
is Pat Conway, who was the lead in Tombstone Territory.
And then Kathy Adams plays Ella Mills, who ob tator
falls in loves with and and Mary's and she only

(39:10):
has two credits on IMDb, and she was actually married
to Louis Lamore, the author who wrote A Man called
Trent and Silver Canyon. Those are the only two that
I could kind of think of. And he also wrote
the original story that Honda is based on, and he
wrote the novelization of Honda as well.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
But yeah. According to IMDb, Lamore and Kathy Adams traveled
all over the West together doing research for his books.
And she sounds like a pretty good life.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
That sounds like a fantastic, amazing Wow.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
All right, well, Dan, can you go ahead and tell
us what this episode's about.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
This one starts off at the home of Olby Tator
Royal Dano, who's a kind of quiet, unassuming gentleman, and
he's got it. He's got a lovely house and or
as lovely as they get in these Westerns. I can
never tell sometimes whether these houses are lovely or not.
Most of them look like they should be abandoned to me,

(40:12):
but but they they He's got a lovely house at
a barn. And basically two jerks show up and wanting
to know where Obi's money is. You learn that Obi
was a prospector, went to California, came back with gold
and bought the property set everything up and Obi doesn't
have According to Obi doesn't have any more money, but

(40:32):
a rumor has spread throughout Dodge City that he still
has money and U and these two guys want the money,
and they go so far as to drag Obi as
in Taia rope around his chest and I guess just
drag him up and down the farm for a while.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, And then.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Obi a few days later shows or is it a
few weeks it's sometime later. He shows up all Bruis
and every everything at at UH in Dodge City at
the Sheriff's office and he tells He tells the sheriff
what happened. So he and he and Matt go basically
throughout Dodge City hoping to maybe see the two guys uh.
They end up going in the saloon and Miss Kitty

(41:14):
is there. It's nice to see Miss Kitty. I haven't
seen her in a while and she's there with Yeah,
she's there with what is it to Ella Mills? Right?
Ella Mills? Who is who gives? Who?

Speaker 5 (41:25):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (41:27):
Who? To be honest, In her first scene, I thought
she went to the same school that Holly went to
for acting, But she she she's she gives she gives
Obie the big eye and everything like that, and just like, oh, mister,
mister tat, I guess his name is tittery Obie and
she and she it's it's it's a it's a really

(41:49):
quite quite a lovely scene where he knows that she's
just talking to him and flirting with him because she
thinks he has money. But he's been so lonely and
has a talk a woman so long he doesn't care.
And so he takes her to the bar and they're
having a drink and and and he says, you know,
we'll go looking for these guys tomorrow. But then all

(42:10):
of a sudden, obi Obi and Ella go missing, and
it turns out they got married, and and Matt's like,
I don't know, this seems a little odd to me,
because there are a couple of things. Ella mentions that
it's one of those sort of classic mystery, like you know,
where someone will let something slip that they shouldn't have

(42:31):
known kind of thing. And Matt kind of says, I'm
a little worried that you did that, Obi, because I
fear she might not her intentions might not be as
you know, nice as you think they are, or whatever.
You think they are. I don't know he does. Obie
does say we got married, really got married. Yeah, it
was love at first sight for me, which I really like.

(42:54):
Which he's very honest, He's very He doesn't one point
like I'm not a smart man, mister Dilla. And you
can sort of that when you said he has the
feel of a grizzled prospector who's had a shave kind
of thing. And so basically what happens is, yeah, they met,
and Chester visit Obie's house and Obi's apparently out, and

(43:15):
Ella won't let them in the house, and things go
a little weird, and I'll leave Obi tatter hanging right there,
which kind of ties in with something that kind of
happens at the closing scene.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Well done again, Dan, Yeah, I think maybe I'll share
my thoughts on this one first to give you a
a little breather. But this is another episode that I
thought was was decent. I was glad we were back
in Dodge, and like you, I was happy to see
Doc and Kitty and I always enjoy Royal Dano. I mean,

(43:49):
there's just no one else like him, and Dan, we'll
actually see him again in episode thirty. Oh nice, so
that gives us something to look forward to. But the
story did went in a direction that I just wasn't
crazy about. Like, I think the opening scene is pretty good,
although some of the dialogue and it could use a

(44:09):
bit of work, Like the.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
It might be right on that.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
So when the two bad guys arrive at Obie's Ranch,
Obi asks if he can offer them some coffee and bacon,
and one of the guys says, you might, and the
other says, we've had Dan who talks like that, we've had.

(44:36):
Oh it's absurd.

Speaker 4 (44:37):
Well, while you're traveling out in the planes, you don't
always have time to speak for sentences.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
And I know they only had twenty six minutes to
tell this story, but having him say we've already eaten
breakfast instead of we've had wouldn't add that much to
the runtime.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
Yeah, no, no, I don't think. It almost sounds like
he's being like a beatnik or something. Yeah, we've had, baby,
we've had.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
But I do I do like I like the setup.
I I wish the episode was just Matt Chester and
Obie looking for the bad guys and maybe a visitor
to more from the villains at Obie's Ranch because I
think Ella Mills could have been taken out of the story,
Like Kathy Adams is not good in this and I

(45:28):
have a note she I have a note. She's not
quite as distant and out there as Holly, but there's
still both a little off.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
She's doing something. Yes, So it's like Louis Lamar is
offset just pointing at his watch, going, we got a
plane to catch. We gotta go to Wyoming. Come on,
I've got four books to write by the end of
the month.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
But yeah, her introduction when uh yeah, when Obi sits
down at the table that she and Kitty are at,
the tone of the score even changes. It sounds like
like horror or like fifty sci fi music. It's really odd.
I thought I thought it was a theremon for a

(46:10):
second and I was like, what is this is really strange.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
She meant to be an alien or something, right, Yeah,
And you.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Know, maybe that's a way to let the audience know
that she can't be trusted. I don't really know. But
the music combined with the way she plays the character
is just really bizarre. And also when they cut to
Matt and Kitty during this scene, it's hilarious. They're just
staring off. It doesn't seem like they're actually looking at

(46:42):
Obi and Ella like maybe.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
I'm wondering sometimes I didn't during the scene, but but.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Maybe Charles Marcus Warren puts so much effort into trying
to get anything out of Kathy Adams that he didn't
give JS and Amanda Blake any direction at all. Or
maybe he told them like, hey, you just stand by
so her performance will look better. I don't know, but

(47:11):
it was very amusing anytime they cut to Matt and
Kitty and I also in the end, I didn't really
buy her character defending Obie, like hearing his side of
the story being told to Matt and Chester right before
she's suddenly feeling sorry for him, especially if she and

(47:34):
if she and it's also weird that she believes he
he believes him that he doesn't have the gold at
this point, I don't. I don't know. That struck me
as odd. But but what did you think of this episode?

Speaker 4 (47:46):
I think I think it's I think Royal dano is
Is is very good throughout. I think this is this
is one that it's true. It's one that I think
could have done with maybe being a bit longer, because
I think there's that like the moment it becomes I
we're married. And then they go to the house and
she's acting really weird and won't let him in the house.

(48:08):
And then they go in the barn and the barn
seems to be empty, but there's a lit lantern like
on a barrel or something. And then and then and
then Obie's hiding in the shadows, and then it all
it's it feels to me like like it's it's. It
starts off strong, then the moment it like fades out,

(48:28):
and then it comes back to, Hey, where'd Obi go?
I don't know. He and Ella vanish and everything that
that second half it seems like there's probably with the
structure or something. It's like something is too something happened
to something's happening too fast, or something like like like
like when the bad guys come into the barn in
the end, it's it's it's it's not it's it's a

(48:50):
better showdown than in the previous episode, but it's not great.
It's I I just I think I think I was.
I was just sort of like it. It just really
feels to me like they they sort of Obi's in
the barn I mean, and the moment where they open

(49:12):
up the barn doors and they see extra horses there
and they're like, okay, they're here, we can't see them.
Where are they? For For a few moments, it's like
it's it's nice and like kind of creepy, like where
are these two guys at? You know? And but but
then it's just like, I feel like the ending could
have had more kick to it, because it isn't. It

(49:33):
isn't Ella Ella Ella turning going onto the side side
of Obie is it isn't one hundred percent convincing. And
her uh for forgive me everyone a little bit of
a spoiler, her like jumping sort of in front of
the bullet to save Matt seems like what kind of
criminal is she?

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (49:55):
That it's it's it's it's just I feel like we
they left out something, or we miss something, or they
they thought they were telling the story sort of perfectly,
but but it's not quite right. That the deeper you
get into it, the less the it it. It's never incoherent.

(50:16):
You don't sit there going wait, what what's happening? What's
going on? Things? Pretty much everything that happens feels like
you know it's in this world, you know, we don't
I don't feel like we go to crazy town at
any point. But at the same time, the structure is
a little weird and things happen a little too fast,
and then it's just and things just kind of happened,

(50:39):
you know, like Obi says, well, you're not my friends
anymore and he storms out, fade fade back in and
they're walking going to Hobe's house. It's like, is that
later that night or is that a week later? Or
how is it? Where are we now? And then that
leads into the ending, and it's just it all seems
very narratively convenient, I guess is the word I would use.

(51:03):
And that's one of the things with this have these
half hour ones, is that when they're done right, they're
just these perfect little pockets of entertainment. But when the
story is a little bit off, you could feel like
the first half has a nice, calm pace, and then
the second half there's just a bit too much happening
and it feels a little weird. And as you said,

(51:23):
Ella is Royal Dane's acting as butt Off in that
scene where he's sitting at the table with her, Yeah,
and I mean just just the moment, you know where
he says he's you know, uh, you know, saying I
forget says something like, uh, you know, she you know,
I didn't mean to be mean to you or to

(51:44):
hurt you or something like that, and he says, well,
yeah you did, but it was okay because it's something
like because when you looked at me, the way you
looked at me, when you thought I had a lot
of money made made me feel really good.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yeah, And that that's where sweet.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
I mean, I almost had a tear in my eye.
Maybe I did have a tear in my eye. It's
none of your business. Really, how often I cry in
episodes of gun Smoke. Maybe more than you think. But
but it's just Royal Dane was acting his butt off
and that every time it cuts to either Miss Kitty
and Matt, who seemed to be just just like, oh
boy boy, we gotta get out of here, or it

(52:23):
cuts to Ella, who like, I don't there's something like again,
she looks like there's something hazy going on. Oh yeah,
and that and that look, and every time it's it's
like he's acting like in a like in a different
room or something like that. From everybody else, and he's
he's just so good when he's he's on there and
he's so look at that opening scene, he's so nice

(52:43):
to the guys who are clearly jerks, right, and and
he's so he's, he's, he's and the only only time
he really like that that scene where he's Ella is
the best and you're all jerks and I hate you
and he runs out. He doesn't quite say that, but
you know he runs out that that that you know,
that's that's obib you a. You know, he's found love, right,
or he thinks he's found love. He says he hasn't

(53:04):
talked to a woman in ages, and so so he's
he's he's found a lovely woman who loves him for money.
She's oh there, she's on the screen right now with
those strange eyes the eyes our eye, her eyelashes too
big or what is it? What's going on with her eyes?
There's something strange about it. And every time it, everyvery
I think what part of what it is is? I think, like,

(53:26):
is the continuity off like when it's a long shot
of her and kitty and then when it cuts to
a close up of its, like is there head in
a wrong position. I don't know, but but it's it's
it's it's again like the other episodes, I I haven't
seen a bad episode yet, this is not This is
not a bad episode. This is just one where it's

(53:47):
and I I think part of it too. Like you said,
it's like the turn it takes in the second half
is one that I h I I would have liked
it more if it have been like just like him
either maybe going home and they were in his house
or something like that. They attacked him and it was
like them in the house running all around, or like

(54:08):
or or or or just something else. But but the
way I think, like the moment he says I got married,
you could hear like it's it's weird because like the
story's going along. And then I'll stop talking as I'm
trying to work out in my head why I didn't
like the second half, and I don't think I've got
sense of I don't think in my mind I'm where
I want to be yet with that. So I'm gonna
try one more thing. And and that's it's almost like that.

(54:31):
It's story's moving, it's moving, it's moving. He he me,
I'm watching her right now, and it's going, it's going,
it's going. And then he meets Ella and everything's kind
of moving forward, and you have him being really kind
of just delightful and just disarming and charming in his
own way in that scene. And then the moment it's

(54:51):
like we got married, it's sort of like screech. You
could hear everything going to a halt. Yeah, and you're like,
what's gonna happen now, because we've only got like eight
or nine minutes left, And then suddenly they get to
the they get to the house and the barn, and
everything speeds up and you're like, Okay, I guess it's over.
So so it's sort of like I kind of yeah,
I kind of wish they hadn't introduced her character. And

(55:14):
she seems a weird is adjunk the correct word? She
seems a weird extra to like, they're like, we'll we'll
go and we'll we'll drag him around for miles. But
you hang out in the saloon and if he should
show up, you know, batch your eyelids at him. You know,
it's it seems a sort of too pronged approach.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
And and and after you've done that, marry him. That
seems a bit much. Yeah, you know, surely when he's
out of town. And I don't mean to call you, Shirley,
but surely when he's out of town, maybe they could
have just like like, oh, he's out of town, let's
let's go to his house, let's tear it up. You know,

(55:56):
they don't seem to you would think they do that, right,
I mean, because they're jerk. I mean just just the
fact that you you you think you can go to
a man's house and say, we think you got money. Well,
I'm sorry, I don't. Well we we think you got money,
and we're going to torture you until you tell us
where your money is. Come on, guys, who where'd you

(56:16):
grow up? Did your mama know you're doing this? And
if she does and she approves, I don't like your mama.
I'm sorry, your big fat mama is going to hell?
All right. So it's it's it's an interesting episode, and
and and one of the joys of it is if
it was just a straightforward, like really good episode, we
would I would stop talking five minutes ago. But as

(56:39):
it is, I really wanted to love it because he's
so good. Royal Dana was so good in the first half,
and he's good in the second half, but it's so
like the first half. I bart from Ella. I really
like the first half that I wanted to love the
whole thing all the way through. And I'm desperately trying
to figure out why. I think I've got close.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
I don't know if I made it though, Well, maybe
you know what, maybe we can revisit it after we
discussed the next episode.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, if it comes to you at any point, you
can interrupt me and say, I've got it.

Speaker 4 (57:10):
Maybe the next time we see Royal Dano, I'll get it.
Oh yeah, stand by what's the other thing that the
actresses in elm Mills, Maybe we could watch that. I'll
forget that, you know what.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
I actually didn't make a note of that. I can't remember.
I cannot remember. But no, I think she does have
two credits and and you can you can definitely understand
why after seeing after seeing her work in this Oh,
I did.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
Look up something I don't know, uh the because because
should we give a spoiler about Obie and his possible fortune?
And oh sure, Well, it turns out Obi does have money.
He's got a lot of money. He's got a rain
barrel full of money. And he specifically says, and I
think at one point someone says something like he's got
one thousand dollars or something something like.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
That, ingles diamond eagles.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
Yeah, he had double eagles, double eagles. Yeah. And I
looked up double eagles. Double eagles were twenty dollars gold coins, Okay,
And you can imagine in eighteen seventy or eighteen eighty
or whatever this is. I couldn't quite go back that
far in an inflation calendar, but I was able to
get back to nineteen thirteen and twenty dollars would have
been six hundred and forty four dollars.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
And he says he has a barrel full of them.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
So and he does say specifically, I got a lot
more money than people think I do. And so I'm
thinking he's got I mean, my thought was one hundreds, right,
probably more than that if he struck a vein of gold.
I mean, he could have a quarter of a million
or half a million dollars in the modern day money

(58:49):
in the rain barrel. And so so it's kind of
interesting that when you go back to it the second
time and you see every time he says, you know,
I don't have any money, and you know he's full
of dung. You know, you know, it's it's it's easing
to watch him do that. And then I get I guess,
I guess maybe he married Ella hoping that they'd reach

(59:10):
a point where he felt comfortable saying, you know what,
turns out I do have a little cash. I've got
one twenty dollars gold coins in this rain bear. But yeah,
that was something I looked up because I thought because
he says double eagles, and I thought, how much would
that be? And I thought, that's a lot of money.

(59:30):
If it's it's because because my first thought was, well,
he's probably got let's say, maybe it's a couple hundred,
let's say four or five. Let's say I thought maybe
he's got like four hundred, five hundred, something like if
the barrel's full. They're small coins, let's say four or
five hundred. But he says that he has more than
we think he does, so that means he has more
than that, because I think he has five hundred, and

(59:52):
he says he has more, so he has six, seven, eight, nine,
one thousand. I don't know, but he's got a lot.
What's he gonna do with it? Probably keep it in
the rain barrel?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Huh, doesn't he say? Isn't there a line where he
says something like he was he was an inch away
from telling them where the where the gold was?

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, he said. And he says, I think
it isn't right after Elliget's killed. Yeah, is that he's
because because Elligant's killed? And then he and we're all
mourning the loss of Ella except Dan and Hunter and
uh the uh and and he basically says that, you know, yeah,
you know that it's it's tragedy that she gots killed

(01:00:33):
because in in in you know, five seconds, I would
have probably told them where the money was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
So it's just it's a funny line. Yeah, to add
in this, it's like I was like, oh man, I
was just about to tell you, oh.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
What a stinker. H Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Well, yeah, I think that's that's all I have. Do
you want to mention anything else else for this episode?

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
No? The last thing I have was that double eagle thing,
all right. And now, having said that, though double eagles
actually sell for thousands of dollars, I'm just saying that
if if you inflated the twenty dollars to now, So
like if someone's selling a goal, like in an auction,
they don't sell for six hundred and forty four dollars.

(01:01:22):
They sell for thousands of dollars. Okay, but they're not
they're not technically they're twenty dollars inflated up like six
forty four or something like that. But they sell as
as museum pieces, as collector pieces, anti antiques, they sell
for thousands.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Okay, we got to get some of those.

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
I would like some. I wish I had a rain barrel.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Well, if we find somebody who has one, maybe you
and I can go riding up to their ranch and
refuse coffee and bacon from them.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
We had What did they say?

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Is that what we've had?

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
We've had, We've had, we've had, We've had breakfast already,
Thank you very much. Cut. Can we can we short
in that line? We only have twenty six minutes? Uh,
we've had breakfast already, shorter? Yeh. This this Marcus Warren,
he's a he's a steer really.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
All right? Well that brings us to episode six, which
is titled Night Visitor, And this was an original story
by Charles Marcus Warren, and he also wrote the screenplay.
It aired on October twenty ninth. And it does seem
like this was made to be shown during the Halloween season, Yes, yes,
it does. Yeah, and Warren he did direct a couple

(01:02:42):
of horror movies. He directed one called Back from the
Dead and he directed Unknown Terror.

Speaker 5 (01:02:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
Yeah, I know, I know, but yeah yeah. Back of
the Dead is one of the western few Western horrors.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Yeah, okay, yeah, I didn't know it was actually a
Western horror, but I believe, I believe it is.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Yeah, if I if i'm I think it is, said
it out loud.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Yeah, it got a blu ray released from Keno recently.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
I think, oh, well, maybe I'll check it out. And
if I'm wrong, everyone, I apologize. But I could have
sworn that that might be might be a Western horror.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Yeah, if it is, I mean, I'll probably check it
out either way because I'm just curious to see it.
But but yeah, I would definitely if it's a horror
kind of tinged Western, I'd be down to check it out.
But I think the only movie I've actually seen of
his was Trooper Hook. It's Joel McCrae and Barbara Stanwick.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
Oh I haven't seen that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Yeah, I'm not positive I've seen any others, but eventually
I also do want to check out more of his
westerns because he had several. Yeah all right, well Dan,
can you tell us what this episode is about?

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
Sure? Now this is It was funny. I didn't write
down the kid's name is tim right? Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Tim or Timmy, Timmy?

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
It was. It was funny because my wife joined me
for this one, and the fact that the little kid
was named tim Me. She just kept thinking a lassie
the whole time, and she says, Lastie going to show up,
and I said, would you please be quiet, I'm doing
serious research for a podcast. And then Timmy come over
here and you just hear her going so on this one.

(01:04:18):
So it starts off with a wonderfully sort of yeah,
sort of Halloween ask moment with a kid like hiding
behind some barrels in front of a wall, watching creepy
shadows almost almost sort of reminded me like the weird
Sisters of Macbeth kind of which is kind of weird stuff.
And these kids got this oh my god face watching
something strange happen, and a lady goes to visit Marshall

(01:04:41):
Dylan saying, hey, my son, tim is a big fat
liar and can you talk to him and tell him
to stop telling big fat lies. And Marshall Dillon says, yeah, sure,
I have nothing else to do as the US Marshall
in charge of Dodge City, but talk to it about lies. Uh,

(01:05:02):
mister Rogers wasn't around yet, And so he goes to
talk to Timmy and Timmy basically Timmy, Timmy, Timmy's mom, Missus.
Timmy says, you know, he thinks you're the best. He
thinks you're the biggest best guy in the world, the
biggest hero in the world. So would you please talk
to him about this because he told this story to

(01:05:24):
his sister, his sister told the story to everyone else,
and he won't back down from it. And so Timmy
basically tells a story where he says he goes to
this this this place at night and he sees these
this uh uh, let's sort of this this figure like

(01:05:44):
drop from the sky on top of people and kill
them and and all kinds of other weird stuff and
and basically Marshall Dillon says, yeah, you're full of it, Timmy, Uh,
get out of here. And Timmy's oh my god, Marshall
doing how can you do this to me? And he's
walking away, and Marshall Dillon says, no way to it, Timmy,

(01:06:07):
I want he wants, he wants to find out more
about what's going on. He says, okay, but but Timmy says, hey,
you know, I've got a friend, his friend, Uh, there's
a there's someone named White Fawn involved in all of
this thing that he's doing. At night, he's basically going
to a house and there's a girl there his age
named White Fawn, and her parents or someone a man

(01:06:31):
and a woman who lived there seemed to be leaping
from the sky and killing people and taking their money.
And Marshall Dillon says, my word of honor, I won't
say anything to anyone about what's going on. I won't
get White Fawn in trouble. Just show me what's happening.
And so they go to this house and they meet
White Fawn and White Fawn and Timmy throw arrows at

(01:06:51):
a wall because you could do that back in the day,
and and then the parents come home and they've got
like eight dollars that apparently it's kind of implied that
they stole from someone, and Timmy thinks, as he said,
tim Timmy has sort of implied that they're they're killing people,
and and but but and so Marshall Dylon he won't

(01:07:12):
sort of break his word of honor to Timmy and
get White Fawn in trouble, but he also wants to
stop these people from you know, doing whatever it is
they're doing. And luckily the guy, the dad or whoever
he is, comes into town and Matt begins to follow
him around, and eventually they all end up on the
path where the beings drop from the sky, and Matt

(01:07:35):
decides to put himself up as a bit of a
not a decoy, but he's going to wander into it
and see what happens when when this strange man drops
down on him from the sky as Timmy and and
and White Fawn look on. So is it supernatural? Is
it craziness? Is Timmy a big fat liar? Who is
White Fawn? Why doesn't she speak? She like a glorified extra?

(01:07:59):
Is she an actual like I? Why doesn't she speak?
Did they say why she doesn't speak? But anyways, that's
what happens in this episode, which has some kind of
creepy moments in it and is well, I'm not gonna
say what I thought of it first, I'm just gonna
stop talking. So it's about a boy who may or
may not be crying wolf, but he's at you not
at all.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
All right, Well, Daniel, thanks again for doing the UK these.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
I got lost in that one a little bit, but hey,
you know it's two three in a row. Sometimes that happens.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
All right. Now, do you want to go first or
do you want me to go first?

Speaker 4 (01:08:31):
I'll go first.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
Yeah, what do you think of this episode?

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:08:36):
Generally I quite liked it. I like the opening. Like
I said that, there's kind of a wonderful, creepy what
the heck is going on here? Seeing? Uh, Timmy was fine.
You know, sometimes with kids things can go a little tricky.
Sometimes for every like good kid actor, there's one who
you want to kind of you know, punch. Timmy's okay him,

(01:09:00):
he's okay. And Marshall Dill. I like the way Marshall
Dillon deals with him. He doesn't he doesn't treat him
general generally, he doesn't treat him like a kid. He
just treats him like a tell me the story, you know,
and and then there's a great moment we're right at
the beginning where he says, well, tell me what's going on. Well,
I go down there with my friend White Fawn, and
you know, and she's a lot of fun and and

(01:09:21):
we play and you don't believe me, do you? And
there's a pause and Matt says, you haven't told me anything,
have you. He just said, you'd like to play with
your friend white Fawn. You know, tell me more. And
I I like the idea of it's one of those
where it's it's all sort of explained in the end.
What's going on. No one's falling from the sky, no

(01:09:42):
one's killing anyone, and you get you get an explanation
in the end, and it's I I think, I think
for me, this one is sort of structured better than
the last one. And I think that the guy who
plays the dad, who who is an actor who I
really like and who i'll talk about my favorite role

(01:10:03):
of his later on. But I think he's like, he's
really quite scary at moments. Yea, when he comes in,
he's he's really got a feeling of uh, he's frightening.
But then when you see him in the general store
and he's talking about he's just a regular guy. So
there's really kind of the first time you see him
and his wife rush into the house when White Fawn's there,

(01:10:25):
it legitimately almost seems like the like like the doors
of opening, like two demons have rolled in, yeah or
something for split second, And even White Fawn, I don't
think Charles markis Warren shoots and shoots this the best way.
But even White Fawn's first appearance is kind of a
and I'll talk about this in a minute, but it's
almost the creepy like ghost like moment and and uh

(01:10:49):
and and overall, I I like this sort of the
creepiness to it, the weirdness of of it. I like
the I like the the explanation at the end is
sort of of sort of sort of like bits of
of of of home surgery, heartbreaking but hopeful. And and
I wish White Fawn spoke. I don't know why White

(01:11:11):
Fawn doesn't speak. But but overall, I think this one
handles the twenty five minute slot pretty pretty well. It
does everything pretty good, and Doc has a couple of
really funny moments in it, but he's basically bothering Matt.
He seems to have nothing else to do, and and
and overall I like I like the fact too that

(01:11:31):
that Matt is able to pursue the line of what
are these people doing at first without treading on the
the the giving his word of honor because he sees
the man in the town and he just keeps an
eye on him, you know, and he's not like, I

(01:11:52):
know you you were in the creepy house. And but
but overall, overall, I quite it was one of those
episodes where I was really I was really kind of
enjoying it, and I was having a good time, and
then you get the final scene where the husband explains
what they're doing, and to be honest, when I got

(01:12:12):
to the end of it, I was I had another
tear in my eye. It happened again two episodes in
a row. And so overall, I think I quite liked
this episode. Is it my favorite the ones so so far?
I know about that, but I quite quite. I think
it's better structure than the previous one. And it doesn't
have the thing where Home Surgery does, where once a character,

(01:12:35):
the character I really liked went away suddenly kind of does.
It doesn't plummet, but it just kind of floats away,
and this one I think keeps pretty solid throughout because
when you get to the closing scene, the bad guy
he's not a bad guy, but the dad is still
imposing and scared, and you think he can take Matt
when they're fighting, and but that when he explains why

(01:13:01):
they're doing what they're doing, the whole thing shifts and moves.
And then when you watch it a second time and
you see what they're doing and why what's going on
is going on, it's it's actually I think it works
pretty good and I quite I quite like this one.
Thumbs up.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Yeah, I enjoyed this one as well. I some of
it doesn't make sense to me, but for the most part,
I was entertained throughout. I thought the opening was really cool,
and like you, I actually thought it had kind of
a witchy vibe to it. And I thought the actor
who played Timmy was actually pretty good for a child

(01:13:39):
actor in a TV series from the fifties. Like some
of his line deliveries are a little goofy, but overall
I thought he did a pretty good job.

Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
I think I think the sort of when when he's
kind of yeah, overall, I think like I think it's
just a few of the line deliveries, and he has
a bit of a bit of an Elmer fudd yes,
and occasionally that'll come up in like just moments that
are sort of like oh why right there? Oh no,

(01:14:10):
That kind of made the line reading weird. But overall
he is pretty good, especially as the episode goes along.
When you see it with wife Fawn and trying to
protect her and such, you're like, okay, Timmy, I'm with
you here.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:14:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
And he is in an episode of season two of
gun Smoke as well, and he was in quite a
few other Western series. Now, the story kind of reminded
me of Stephen King a little bit, like Stephen King
loves to put children in situations where there's something scary
happening and nobody believes them. But I thought, I thought

(01:14:44):
the actors who played the Hentons Robert Folk Folk, Yes, yeah,
Robert Folk and Amzi Strickland. I thought they were both
pretty good. And the other children in the episode were
played by Charles Marcus Warren's kid Kids. Oh yeah, Ann
Warren plays White Fawn.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
Oh okay. I thought the name looks familiar when I.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Saw the credit, and then Lance Warren plays Timmy's sister, Maggie,
and she's in the Maggie. She's in this for like
eight seconds, and then the mother is played by Gene Bates,
who I don't think ever had any big roles, but
she's in. She had a long career. She's actually an

(01:15:26):
episode seven of gun Smoke, so we'll be seeing her
again soon. But she's even in. She's in eraser Head
and she's in Muholland Drive, which is kind of wild
that there's So we've had two episodes of gun Smoke
that have had some David Lynch kind of alumni.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
Now the ending. So the reason he doesn't earn the
money legally is because he couldn't figure out a way
to explain to keep his wife's daughter a secret from
people in town. I think he said something about, yes,
he doesn't know how to explain to the people and

(01:16:06):
Dodge that his wife has a child with a Native American.
And if he had said something like he was making
seventy five since a day, you know, as a butcher
or whatever, and he needed to make money faster so
they could start over somewhere else, that might make a

(01:16:29):
little more sense.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
Yeah, yeah, I get I see Yeah, I see what
you're saying there.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Because I feel like you could. I feel like you
could work with other people, and I mean maybe this
would be difficult to do, but you could probably work
with other people and not talk about your personal life.
Now he's in a situation where his wife was taken. Yeah,
I think he said she was gone for nine years. Yeah,

(01:16:55):
so that would be I mean, you would bring that up.
I mean, how could you not.

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
I think if after she's come back, after you've gotten
her back, I feel like you probably, especially if you
live like in an isolated, you know area, you could
probably get away with hiding that she has a child.
But this is very nitpicky.

Speaker 4 (01:17:24):
Yeah, no, I I do get where you're coming from. That.
I thought I think I may have had that thought,
and then I think I just kind of I think
I just kind of let it go because I thought
I thought I might be bogging myself down a little
too much in there, and I tend to do that
too often, you know, I see exactly what you're saying, Like,

(01:17:45):
could he have just gotten a job, just maybe working
in a field somewhere or just doing doing something just
to make a little extra money. Yeah, and the fact
that we couldn't make money fast enough. It was I mean,
I mean it could it could just be that like
after nine years or whatever, he just he really just
can't he can't stand it, you know, like he he

(01:18:07):
just really can't. He can't, he can't do it. He
has to be out, he has to go away. Yeah,
that is Yeah, it's a bit of a bit of
a slight flaw there because because if he is such
an honest man, uh well, yeah, then I did.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Now I will say I think that it's cool that
they explore this idea that people in the town would
likely reject someone who had a child with a Native American,
and even I mean in this during this era, even
the era this series was made, having a child out
of wedlock was still going to be a difficult thing

(01:18:47):
probably for a family to go through there. So I
think the ending is compelling, even if it doesn't completely
make sense to me.

Speaker 4 (01:18:56):
Yeah, yeah, I guess sort of thinking I think justifying
it sort of after I sort of maybe after the
fact kind of thing. But there there could just be
the thing where it's maybe after nine years of working
so hard to find her and then having to pay
the is he said the Shawnees. I forget who he said.

(01:19:17):
It was Cheyenne, Okay. Uh, the after doing all of that,
there could just a yeah. Maybe I mean I I
sort of just I think in my mind, I just
felt he was probably just like at at just like
at the at the end of what he could sort

(01:19:41):
of take, you know, like he was at the point where,
you know, nine years of this and finally he bought
her back, and she comes with a daughter. And it's
never elaborated, it's just said, she's with a daughter, right,
and you know what that means, and and you know
that will be talking. You know that will be unpleasant.

(01:20:01):
And I think I I think part of me, uh,
I think, like like when Matt talks to him in
the end and says, you know you're gonna have to
go to prison and make you know, and and you know,
do time for for what you've done, for the stealing
you've done, and just sort of I think I think
after working so hard to get her back, I think
maybe he just made a bad choice. Yeah, you know,

(01:20:26):
maybe maybe he just he just the thought of after
nine years of doing all of that, the thought of
going through maybe nine more years of having to work,
to earn everything was just more than he could handle,
and so he justified somewhere making this bad choice just

(01:20:48):
because he wanted to get him and his family somewhere
where they could start anew right. Maybe maybe I don't.
I don't, but but you are right though, that is
kind of it is kind of glossed over that. Yeah, yeah,
surely there there must be something he could have.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Yeah, yeah, you would think so. But of course I've
never I haven't spent a day in this man's shoes.
I don't even know if I should be talking about this.

Speaker 4 (01:21:18):
Yeah I don't, Yeah, I don't. I mean I think
I think it's something to it's it's certainly something to
bring up because it is. Yeah, for sure, yeah, but
uh but but to me, I I am just just
sort of looking at him, just like his facial hair.
To me screams, Look, I can't take this anymore. I
need to get out of here. Please don't bother me.

(01:21:39):
I mean, you know, like, uh you know, what does
does it like? Uh? So, uh I haven't seen you
around here? Well you know, you know, like I've been
around here. I didn't catch your name. Well, well I didn't.
I didn't give you my name, and then he says
something like, so, so what do you do? I mind
my own business. And that's kind of like you could
tell he's just like to me, Yeah, he's just he's

(01:22:01):
just right on the edge. It's just gonna take like
one more little thing to go screwy or wrong, or
or just one person to just sass him in a
rotten way about his daughter or or or you know,
his his adopted daughter. I guess yeah, and he would
probably and he would probably get to that point that

(01:22:23):
he almost gets to where he almost kills, but he
hasn't got to that point yet. He's just they're just
basically they're just basically thieving off of from the ways
to described like drunks leaving Dodge. He jumps on him,
scares them and takes their money, which is not nice, no,

(01:22:43):
but it's not killing. And in the end he does
he does say that he will do whatever time he
has to do.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
Yeah for that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:52):
So yeah, it's it's that's that's a very interesting point
that you bring up. Yeah, that's yeah. Like, like I said, overall,
I I quite enjoyed the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
I think it's me too.

Speaker 4 (01:23:03):
I think it's sharply written I love the location of
that house. It's it's almost one of those it's it's
funny one of the uh something something I do enjoy
doing on occasions going on YouTube and watching videos of
people going into like abandoned buildings.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
Oh okay, and uh and.

Speaker 4 (01:23:21):
There's a lot of these. And and the thing about
the house when they go to the house is I thought,
you know that that looks like a building that someone
would have gone into on YouTube, that would have just
been completely abandoned, you know, going in the middle of
the night, just going around with the light and the
camera shining it into all the corners and and stuff
like that. Uh so, so I really I really like

(01:23:41):
sort of that house. And and the great thing about
that scene is that when they enter the attic, uh
what is it? Timmy enters the attic and then a
moment later, Matt enters the attic, and the whole time
they're there, white white fawn is is it the corner
in the dark right? And it's great because when he

(01:24:04):
first enters there, she's there, but you're not looking there,
but she's there, and it's kind of it's kind of
I think he slightly ruins it by when Matt comes
in and is sort of looking around. She should I think,
in the same shot, she should have stepped out of
the darkness.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Yeah, because because.

Speaker 4 (01:24:24):
You're looking at Matt and Timmy, you're not looking in
the dark corner and have a sudden like a girl
just step out of the darkness would have been legitimately
like whoa. But unfortunately, what what Warren does is Matt
steps in, looks around, and then it cuts to a
shot of her looking at them, a close up of
her looking at them, and then the long shot of

(01:24:45):
her stepping out of the darkness. And I don't know
whether that was something like maybe she she stepped out
of the darkness, that it was maybe a little too creepy,
or I mean because because there is something like when
when Timmy steps in, if you know she there, she's
just this quiet image, like standing in the shadow. It's like, hey,
that's pretty good. Yeah, And I kind of wish they

(01:25:07):
had gone more for the scare there, But it's not
a horror show. It's a western, right and what And
then a moment later when you see the parents returning
and they're like all dressed in black and the mom
looks like a witch and the dad looks like some
sort of evil demon with all the facial hair and everything,
and he's he's huge. Yeah, and then they step in like,

(01:25:29):
how are you doing? You look like you haven't had
any sleep yet. You know, No, you know, it's a
it's a it's funny. The more I talk about, the
more I liked this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Yeah, it was good. I I definitely enjoyed it. And
you know, you know what's funny is it is of
the episodes that we've watched so far, it is easily
the lowest rated on IMDb.

Speaker 4 (01:25:52):
Really, yeah, gosh, what are we doing here?

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:57):
He told me everyone that he was going to give
me the IMDb ratings with hands so I could get
excited about the ones y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Love No next time? I next time?

Speaker 4 (01:26:07):
I Oh, wow, that's that's interesting. I wonder why. Yeah,
I don't know. Now.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
One more thing in this episode, and this is probably
in other episodes as well, that I noticed, but I
really noticed it here is sometimes the dialogue sounds like
it's written for radio.

Speaker 4 (01:26:29):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
Like there's a scene with Doc and Matt at the
general store. Actually the scene where mister Hinton uh is
there after he leaves and Doc and Matt are talking.
Now this is a little bit of an exaggeration, but
it kind of sounds like this, what do you think, Matt?
I don't know what do you think?

Speaker 4 (01:26:48):
Doc? Matt?

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
I can't figure it out, neither can I.

Speaker 4 (01:26:50):
Doc.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Suppose we ask Chester you think that's a good idea, Matt,
it's a good idea.

Speaker 4 (01:26:55):
Doc.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Did you notice that about the dialogue?

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
Dan?

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
He did notice that. Yeah, that's that's that's that's I
was gonna say, that's that's I always think of the
the back in the thirties when soap opera started. The
I forget their names they were, it was it was
like Frank and Anne Hummered were the two of the
big soap opera creators. They were like they along with

(01:27:22):
the woman who created Guiding Light and a couple other people's,
but but Franken Anne Hummert they created like like dozens
of soap operas for old time radio, and they had
some of the biggest ones that went out for like
twenty or thirty years, and a lot of their their
writing is like that, Tom, what are you doing here?
We'll hold it right there, Steve. I just came to

(01:27:43):
talk to Gene well, Jean's in the next room with Susan.
Jean and Susan are both in the next room. Tom, Well, thanks, Steve.
What do you what are you doing there? I'm just
having a bowl of cereal. I bring up cereal again.
I'm just having a bowl of cereal. What kind of cereal?
You know? And that's the way it is where they
keep they keep saying the names over and over again.
So yeah, that's you know, it's like it's like, you know,

(01:28:04):
don't pull that gun on me, Well that gun you're carrying,
be careful, you're shooting me, you know, that kind of thing.
And it's just like no, no, yeah, no, you're you're
right that that does happen in there too much radio writing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
Oh it's funny though. I kind of love it. That's
the way they.

Speaker 4 (01:28:24):
Talk to each other. Maybe that's just they're just they're
just sort of antagonizing each other by using each other's
name over and over again. We could try that next time.
Let's try that, just like I'll say your name and
you say my name every time we talk to each other.
See what happens if like maybe suddenly, hey, you know,
we're that was We feel much better now. Or maybe

(01:28:47):
we just bother the crap out of each other by
the end of the episode by doing well.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
We should do it, and then at the end of
the episode, I'll clip together all the Hunters and Dans
and it'll just be like Unter Dan Hunter Dan Dan.
That could be pretty good, pretty good content.

Speaker 4 (01:29:06):
So yeah, I I I, I agree. I actually have
that scene playing right now. I've got the subtitles on,
so in a few moments I might be seeing. Yeah,
it's funny too, because when Matt's talking to mister Hinton there,
that's that's some good dialogue like his earlier his responses.
But then the moment it's just Matt and Doc. Suddenly

(01:29:27):
it's like they don't remember who someone has to remind that.
They have to remind each other of who they are
every other line.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
Yeah, Oh it's good stuff. Though I talk I.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
Talked briefly about the actor and my favorite role of his.
Oh yeah, now, he's he's a he's a he's been
in a lot of stuff. He's been a ton of stuff,
and and he's rather sort of huge and menacing here.
But I know him as being He played a character
in several seasons of Green. He was a character he

(01:30:02):
actually is. Weirdly enough, he played a character named Roy Trendall,
who is a farmer who also for a while owned
the phone company in Hooterville. Oddly enough, in the last
season of Green Acres, when Ebb is about to get married,
he plays the father of the woman Ebb's gonna get
married too. But it's not Roy Trendall. It's a completely

(01:30:23):
different character, although he acts exactly like Roy Trendall, which
is really odd. But that's Greenegger's worry. But the thing
about Roy Trendall is Roy Trendall is sort of Oliver
Wendell Douglas is the lead character, sort of his nemesis.
He's always picking on Oliver. He's always calling Oliver a
hot head and bothering Oliver, and Oliver is just trying
to Oliver just can't figure out why this this random

(01:30:46):
farmer just hates him so much. And Trent Roy Trandle
is always bothering him, and they're both kind of big,
big guys. The actors are both kind of big guys,
so he's always bothering him. And then in season three,
Oliver basically takes over the phone company from Roy Trendall.
That's and and so so roising it a lot. And
he's he's basically kind of a big goofy farmer who

(01:31:08):
just likes picking on the lead character of the show.
And he's fun and it's great to see him here
where he's actually kind of scary a bit, and he
there's actual pathos in the end with it, so because
I just kept expecting him to be Roy Trendle and
being kind of a jerk, but but he's he's fun,
So so yeah, it's it's nice. When I saw him,
I thought, oh my gosh, it's Roy Trendall.

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
Yeah, he's good. He's really good. And like, even if
even if his kind of dialogue at the end didn't
totally make sense, like the way he delivered it was
like really convincing.

Speaker 4 (01:31:44):
Yes, And and the way it's shot too, is nice
because it's like it's like Matt is standing on like
a little path leading up to a little bunch of trees,
and the wife is next to him, and the kids
are around there somewhere, but but but but but mister
Hitt is bed the trees and you can just so
you can't quite see him. He's in shadow, and he
may have a gun or he may not as he's

(01:32:06):
telling the story, and it's it's it's really it's nicely done.
It adds an extra a little bit of creep to it.
But then as he tells the story it becomes less
creepy and more sad. Yeah, and and but then but
then again with hope in the in the end of it.
And so it's a I like this episode. I'm gonna
watch an episode of Green Eggs. Was right trendle in

(01:32:26):
it right after we get off this car. Oh you should,
I'm going to It's gonna be good.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
Yeah, Now do you have Do you have any other
thoughts on this one? That's pretty much all I have
for this.

Speaker 4 (01:32:37):
Yeah. I think I think I got it. I think
I got all nine years Yanne. Yeah, yeah, oh and
there there there is there there's a moment I like
where that's explained later on because the way I like
the way that when Tim tells the story, it's told
in kind of a kid type way, with like they

(01:32:57):
he dropped out of the sky, well, he dropped out
of a tree and and and he says that, yeah,
there were just he dropped out of the sky and
killed these people. And Matt says, well, if all these
people have been getting robbed and killed. How come none
of it's been reported? And Timmy doesn't know why, And
it's kind of a nice Why hasn't it been reported?

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
Yeah, it's basically.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
It's basically because it's been really drunk guys getting scared
by another guy and having some money taken, and they're
probably either too far out of Dodge or too embarrassed,
or maybe don't even notice what happened to them, don't
realize what happened to them until it's too late kind
of things. So there's but it's kind of nice because Timmy, Yeah,
Timmy tells the story. And with that opening scene and

(01:33:39):
Timmy's story, there are tinges of supernatural. They all come
out in the end they're not supernatural, but there for
a while there's a feeling like are there ghosts? Are
their demons and witches in Dodge City? And there there
could be. We still got, you know, nineteen and three
quarters of a seasons left in the show, so who knows,
who knows what?

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
But yeah, that so that's all I had.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
All right, cool, Now, before we wrap up, I do
want to mention something. I bring back something I mentioned earlier.
So this is an idea that Dan, you and I
could potentially work on together. Okay, so, of course, in
episode four, Matt Dylan swears to mister Hawtree that he'll

(01:34:24):
see to it personally that his daughter is taken care of.
In this episode, he tells the Hintons he'll make sure
White Fawn is taken care of as well. And I
have a feeling these aren't the only examples of Matt
promising this to parents in this series. So I'm thinking
you and I should write a piece of fan fiction

(01:34:47):
where are they now? Type of story where we see
if Matt stayed stayed true to his word or if
he failed. Oh yeah, obviously I'd want to turn Matt
into a villain and make readers rethink how they felt
about this iconic Western hero and have all of these

(01:35:10):
poor little lamb's lives just be ruined because he gave
there these these parents his word and didn't stick to it.
I mean, Dan, how fun would that be?

Speaker 4 (01:35:23):
That would be interesting?

Speaker 3 (01:35:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
And I guess it could be like a I don't know,
like we could do it like a sliding doors double
life of Aaronique kind of thing, where you know, we
we have two stories going at once and in one
of them he he doesn't save a single one, and
then the other one he saves them all. Yeah, And
I like the thought of like like they're there being

(01:35:46):
like a like like a house somewhere in Dodge City
that's just filled with people that he saved, and you know,
and when they reach a certain age, you know, and
they they you know, they get married or they make
a job somewhere else, so they move out. But it's like,
you know, this is like the it would be more
than a halfway house because you'd be there for a

(01:36:07):
long time, but this would be like the Dylan the
Dylan House or something like that, you know where. Uh,
and maybe like someone like Miss Kitty or maybe even
Miss Kitty like runs it or something like that, like
you know, this is this is, this is Miss Kitty,
and she'll be she'll take you to your room. And
and this is like a like a like a like
a like an orphanage but not quite kind of Yeah.

(01:36:32):
But then but then also he could just be lying
to him and they could all wind up at the
local brothel or something like that. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:40):
Yeah, oh boy, that would be dark.

Speaker 4 (01:36:43):
Yeah, that would be well, we'll get to that everyone,
we'll start writing that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:48):
We'll start yeah, as soon as we get off this
call here. All right, Well, Dan, this was this was
great fun. Where can where can people find you online?
And and also where are your books available at?

Speaker 4 (01:37:00):
Uh? So at the at the moment. Yeah, I'm on
I'm on Facebook, uh Dan Budnick or Daniel Budnick. Also
my my podcast eventually Supertrained. I'm on I'm on uh
eventually super Trained. I still have a blog. I didn't know.
You didn't think those still existed. They do. Some of
us who are still lazy have them. But I've eventually

(01:37:21):
super Trained out blogspot dot com. We can go for
the uh, for the for the podcast. I'm also on
Blue Sky under actually I forget what I'm on under
Blue Sky look for me. Daniel Budnick, I'm there somewhere.
And the books, uh, you you go on Amazon and
get the books. You can go on my My My
Action Film book. You can go on most bookstore places

(01:37:45):
and get eighties action movies on the cheap. It's from
McFarlane Books. You can go on there too. The Bleeding
Skull book eighties eighty Uh, Bledy Skull in nineteen eighty
trash Horror Odyssey unfortunately is out of print. My My
My Kids book, which is ebook only, is on Amazon,
and my last two books, the What Is It From

(01:38:06):
Beverly Hills to Hooterville Exploring TV's Heading Verse, is through
Throckmorton Press on Amazon print on demand. And my latest book,
which came out in March, which is when I say
read Read one Fellow's Journey through Doctor Who Volume one
nineteen sixty three to nineteen seventy nine is available again

(01:38:28):
through Throckmorton Press on Amazon. That's an ebook or paperback,
and volume two is due out at the end of
June twenty twenty five. So that's books and podcasts eventually,
Supertrained and Made for TV, Mayhem Show and all kinds
of fun stuff and you know everyone, in a while
you'll find me here talking about Matt Dllon.

Speaker 2 (01:38:49):
All right, excellent? Well, Dan, thank you, thank you so much.
We'll talk again soon.

Speaker 4 (01:38:53):
Yes, yes, talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
I hope you enjoyed this episode. A huge thanks to
Dan again for going through this series with me. If
you've seen the episodes we covered this week, what did
you think of them? And let me know what some
of your other favorite classic Western TV shows are. I'd
love to cover more in the future. You can reach
me by email at Tumbleweeds and Tvcowboys at gmail dot com.
You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and x All

(01:39:19):
the links are in the show notes. Next week I
have a new guest, Ryan Rodriguez from the One Track
Mind podcast is joining me for a discussion on Anthony
Mann's The Furies. Until then, if you're looking for more
film related podcasts, please check out other shows on the
Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 5 (01:39:40):
The audio commentary. It's a dying art forum. But here
at One Track Mind, I your wonky at affable host
Brian Luis Rodriguez analyze film through the prism of these
embryonic forms of podcasting, one audio commentary at a time. Masterpieces,
crapster pieces, live action, animation, cult classics, films literally no

(01:40:04):
one has ever heard of. No track is too small
and no track is too big. Join me and my
guests from the entertainment world as we keep these features
alive every other Tuesday. Hey, who else is going to
discuss Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey one week and Citizen
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(01:40:25):
put up with my voice, but there's a certain give
and take in this industry that's one track mine. Part
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Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
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