Episode 15: The Furies w/ Ryan Luis Rodriguez

Ryan Luis Rodriguez from the One Track Mind and Reels of Justice podcasts joins me to discuss Anthony Mann's The Furies. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.
Welcome back to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys, the classic Western
film and TV podcast. My name is Hunter. This week

(00:22):
we have a new guest. Ryan Rodriguez from the One
Track Mind podcast joined me to discuss director Anthony Mann's
The Furies. I'm a big fan of Anthony Man, and
I'm sure many of his other westerns will be covered
on the podcast eventually. Here's our conversation on The Furies. Ryan.
Thanks for coming on the show.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Thank you so much for having me. I was really
looking forward to this all week.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh excellent. Yeah, I'm definitely happy to have you join me.
I just recently started listening to the One Track Mind
podcast and I've been enjoying it. And now, for listeners
who aren't familiar with you, can you tell us about
yourself and your podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Sure. I am a thirty nine year old autist man
obsessed with pop culture, and I do a two podcasts,
one the one that you just mentioned, One Track Mind,
where we analyze film through the prism of audio commentaries,
and that drops every other Tuesday. We've had a lot
of really big guests, including our network boss Ryan Vrel

(01:22):
who was tremendous and you will be on soon to
discuss I don't know what yet.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
But we'll figure that out absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
And then my other podcast is called Reels of Justice,
which is a fake movie court where in a prosecutor, defender, judge,
and jury try to conclude whether or not a movie
is guilty of being a bad movie. And that's every Thursday.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
All right. Excellent? Yeah, well, listeners, definitely check out both
of Ryan's podcasts now with one Track Mind. There are
a couple episodes that I think are great places to
start for fans of Westerns. I know recently Will Dotson
was on talking about High Noon, and then a while
back I saw that you and Billy Ray Bruton did

(02:04):
an episode on Rio Bravo, which I actually just listened
to the other day, So definitely go check those out.
Rio Bravo might actually be my favorite classic Western. I
absolutely adore it.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I might be on board with you on that one
is it's one of those. But the amazing thing is
that it's a response that is kind of an immature
response to a different movie, the aforementioned High Noon, Yes,
but ends up becoming possibly the better movie, which is weird.
Because it's kind of childish when you think about it.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
But then we actually watched.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
The movie and it's like Angie Dickinson frustrating John Wayne
for two hours and twenty five minutes. It's absolutely enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Oh, the entertainment value of that movie is so high.
I ah charts, absolutely love it now. And I do
think on the high Noon episode, I think you go
into your history with Westerns a little bit, But can
you tell us about your history with Westerns?

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Sure? So, I was never a big Western fan as
a kid, even though my dad was really into them
because it was one of the things that you could
watch undubbed on television when he was growing up in
Costa Rica. So, but when I was a kid, Westerns
were never in my bag. So like the closest I
ever got was like Back to the Future Part three

(03:21):
or Blazing Saddles. I never really got to the genuine
Westerns until I became a cinophile in my early twenties,
and then ten years later when I got a subscription
to Turner Classic Movies, I would just collect all of
the Westerns that they played, because they played deep cuts,
B sides, everything you've heard of and nothing you've heard of,

(03:44):
and it was one of those things that now it's
one of my favorite genres, even if it is still
even in the best movies, kind of problematic, but not
so much in this movie.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Awesome. Ye Now, what are some of the movies? Do
you remember some of the movies you saw on TCM
that kind of got you hooked on westerns?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, there's another movie that, in fact several movies that
Anthony Mann made, like The Man from Laramie with Jimmy Stewart,
Man of the West with Gary Cooper, The Naked spur
is another Jimmy Stewart one, and The Far Country. Then
beyond Anthony Mann, you know, How The West Was Won

(04:24):
is a fascinating film to me. The aforementioned high Noon
is pretty much a masterpiece, Real Bravos, a masterpiece. Rio
Lobo is really interesting. I love a lot of what
john Ford does, my darling Clementine being one of my favorites.
And then you know, you get into the spaghetti westerns
and you get the good, the bad, and the ugly,

(04:44):
which I'll be talking about in the future on my
own podcast, and of course the two prequels fistful of
dollars and a few dollars more an episode that you
might be interested in Frank o'neiro in Django Outstanding, and
then you have like the Southern, which is like something
that Quentin Tarantino has helped popularize with Django Unchained and

(05:08):
The Hateful Light. Yeah, so it really I like to
cover the entire spectrum. I don't like to leave any
part of it out, no matter what the reasons are.
I need a full diet of all of this kind
of cinema. It sustains me.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Oh yes, I am definitely sustaining me. That is a
great way of describing how I feel about Westerns as well.
And they also they they're definitely even though they can
be violent and can have, you know, pretty terrible characters,
almost any Western is basically comfort food for me. But yeah,

(05:47):
I think at this point though, we can get into
our main discussion, which is on Anthony Mann's The Furies,
and it of course stars Barbara Stanwick, Walter Houston, and
Wendell Corey, and it was one of three westerns that
Anthony Mann directed that were released in nineteen fifty, the
others being Devil's Doorway, which that's still the only Anthony

(06:08):
Man Western i've never seen.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
I've never seen it either, but I have seen Winchester
seventy three because that was on Turner Classic Movies and
then Criterion just put out a four K disc of it.
And it's one of those movies where you're not really
following a character, you're following a gun. Yeah, it's passed
from person to person, which would end up being the
inspiration for a television series that Robert Altman executive produced

(06:34):
in the nineties called Gun, where it would be an
anthology story and every single new episode was a different
hand that that gun ended up in. And I can't
imagine that Robert Altman was not a fan of Winchester
seventy three, having shot his fair share of Westerns when
he was in his TV period.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Oh yeah, I would definitely think Gun would be influenced
by Winchester seventy three for sure, and Winchester seventy three
is one of my favorites. I actually I had the
Winchester seventy three four K in my cart during a
recent Criterion flash sale, and unfortunately I got busy and
then the clock struck noon and the sale was over

(07:13):
and I had to miss out on it, which was
kind of a bummer, but I will get that one
during one of their sales, for sure.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
That almost happened to me this time, but luckily I
put out into the ether. If you know when the
next Criterion flash sail is, please tell me, and Varyl
within five minutes emailed me it's going to be tomorrow
at noon. And so I was just prepared all day.
I made my cart into my I made my wish

(07:41):
list into my cart. I hauled ass on that thing,
and I think I got like forty movies. So I'm
definitely oh wow. I don't know how I can afford
stream Yard because I have no more money. I cannot
spend it on movies anymore because it has been taken
away from me by the Criterion Corporation.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeahty movies as a ton. But that's that's pretty heroic.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well well done, and thank you to mister Verel for
that heads up. Thank you. Oh yeah, whoof because last
year I failed, I got like twelve and that's not acceptable.
That's not a good way to lose money. If you're
gonna lose money, you lose big. That's how I say it,
That's how they said it in the Old West. That's
how I say.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
It now, Yeah, I'm with you. I love that. But yeah,
But Anthony Mann, now, he made eleven westerns in total,
and of course is best known for his collaborations with
Jimmy Stewart. And I'm sure if you're a fan of
classic westerns, year probably familiar with his movies. And Barbara
Stanwick was in a good amount of westerns and I'll

(08:42):
definitely cover more of hers in the future. And when
she transitioned into being more of a TV star in
the sixties, she started in a western series called The
Big Valley and she was also in an episode of
raw Hide. She was in several episodes of Wagon Train.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
She's in one of the great Sam Fuller movies forty
Guns Yes, where she is possibly the sexiest a woman
has ever been until Nicole Kidman and Batman Forever.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
I like that that Now those are two completely opposite looks,
so I like that.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, I like to cover all my bases though.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah. And then Walter Houston of course is in this
and his Looking at his filmography, I am surprised he
wasn't in more westerns. He's in a handful, and he
was in the first like unofficial Wyatt Art movie which
is called Law and Order, and he plays a character
based on IRP named Frame Johnson. And I still haven't

(09:38):
seen it, but I know David Lambert, a Western historian,
says that it's one of the greatest westerns ever made,
and Keno announced that it will be coming out on
Blu Ray. I believe this summer. So I'm very much
looking forward to that.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Wyatt Earp ironically being a character in Winchester seventy three. Yes,
he doesn't have a lot to do, but he's there.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah. Yeah, And this but this was Houston's final role.
He died a few months before The Furies premiered. And
I'm gonna talk about a couple more key players and
then we'll get into it. But the screenplay is written
by Charles Schnee and he adapted a novel written by
Niven Bush. And Bush wrote the screenplay for Pursued, which
I covered previously on the podcast. And Charles Schnee he

(10:22):
wrote some great movies. He wrote Red River, They Live
by Night, and The Bad and the Beautiful, which is
like a childhood favorite of mine.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
I trim for it. Oh my god, that's what I'm.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah, And I'm just having those three credits in your
filmography is enough to make me want to seek out
more of his work. Yeah, but at this point I
think I'm gonna read the synopsis and then we'll kind
of get into our general thoughts. All right, So, a
New Mexico cattleman and his strong willed daughter clash over
land and love. Ryan, what are your thoughts on the furies?

Speaker 2 (10:57):
I love this movie. It is. It's not as exciting
as Winchester seventy three, but it might be more layered
in terms of the characterization, because it's one of those
things where it's weird in that it's a quasi romance,
like it's not really a traditional romance. It's kind of
a family at war over territory and over goods, but

(11:23):
at the same time not really all about that. So
it's several things without really committing to too much, but
it covers a wide swath of stuff that if you're
interested in the progression of the Western these are themes
that are going to recur and have been recurring for decades.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah. Absolutely. Now, I had seen this before a long
time ago, and for whatever reason, it's not one that
really stuck with me. I mean, maybe at the time
when I saw it. I was watching other westerns that
had more action and that was more of my thing.
But I watched it twice leading up to this, and
the first time I watched it, I wasn't really loving it.

(12:07):
And I did read Anthony Mann's thoughts on this movie,
which was taken from an interview in I think Cite
and Sound magazine from the sixties, and he said it
had marvelous characters, but it failed because nobody in it
cared about anything. They were all rudderless. And I do
agree with him that the character's feelings are like very

(12:30):
much all over the place, and I think that that
impacted my experience the first time quite a bit. But
when I rewatched it, I enjoyed it so much more, really,
up until a certain point in the last act, where
I do think it goes a little crazy, especially with
Vance and Ripp's relationship. But I love Stanwick and Walter

(12:55):
Houston so much in this and their performances really help
me overlook what I think are some some flaws. And
I also I think the direction is solid. There's one
shot that I that I kind of noted early on
in the scene where TC. There's a moment where TC,

(13:16):
who's played by Walter Houston is giving Vance, you know,
Barbara Stamock's character a necklace, and I think she says
that they're pearls, and she like rejects the gift. And
then TC gets out the real gift, which is another necklace,
and this time she's ecstatic about it. And the camera
pans over to a mirror, and the mirror flips which

(13:39):
side of the frame the characters are in. And in
addition to being like kind of a stylish moment, it
also felt intentional to me because this is very much
a movie about power dynamics shifting back and forth, and
I feel like this shot kind of shows a shift
in power to some degree. And and that might be

(14:01):
really poor analysis or maybe I'm not at all preaching.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
But the thing that's really interesting about that scene is
that it sets up this thematic undercurrent of the film
that it's kind of an oedipal relationship between TC and Vance. Definitely,
there's definitely some weird, hinky shit going on in that relationship.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Very weird. I mean, she's the only person at the
beginning of the movie who he's comfortable have scratched his
lumbard number six.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, that's not weird. That's not weird at all. No, but.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, but another thing, I really love Franz Waxman's score,
and I think he's always a pretty reliable composer. Now
I'm not crazy about Wendell Corey. I've always found him
to be kind of a dull actor. And I know
Nivin Bush, who wrote the novel. He also said he
didn't think Corey was right for the part. I think

(15:03):
some parts of the script are amazing, Like there's incredible dialogue,
and Stanwick has some really memorable lines that I feel
like she nails, and some of the movie feels very
pre code to me. Here's a couple there's a couple
of lines in particular that reminded me of kind of
pre code Hollywood. There's a scene where Vance sees the

(15:25):
name Burnette on the back of a check and she
asks TC about it, and he says something along the
lines of sometimes a man just needs a woman's company,
and that's very suggestive. And then later in the movie,
she's at Rip's bank, I think, and there's a woman
working there and the woman says that she's new there,

(15:46):
and Vance says, you wouldn't be new anywhere, and Stanley. Yeah,
and she really just see she's so good and and
she delivers these lines just magnetic, deficently and yeah, and
then you you kind of touched on the Vance and
TC relationship. And on Turner Classic Movies website, there is

(16:11):
an article about this movie and whoever's writing about it,
I can't remember the name, but he says the relationship
is so close to incest and that it's strongly hinted at.
And I wanted to ask, what did you think of
the dynamic between TC and Vance?

Speaker 2 (16:29):
It goes It definitely goes beyond a father and daughter
m It's clearly TC has been without a wife for
some time. We don't know the length of distance of time,
but it's clear that he's a lonely man and that
he is directing all of his attention towards the only

(16:51):
other real woman in his life, which just so happens
to be his daughter. And I want to backtrack a
little bit because I wanted to comment on something that
you said. Okay, and then we can get back to this,
and I promise I won't distract you too much. But
when you're pointing out that you don't like Wendell Corey
in this film. I have literally four lines of notes

(17:12):
on my notes, and the first one is I don't
know if I buy Wendell Corey as a cowboy. He
looks like the wise, understanding dad on a fifties TV show,
were a remorseless killer in a noir film, nothing in between.
He's trying to be a darker Joel McCrae. That's how
I feel about Wendell Corey. I look at his face

(17:34):
every single time I go, You're not a cowboy? Come on,
who are we kidding here?

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Oh, Joel McCrae would have knocked this part out of
the park. It would have been awesome if.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
He and I think they've worked together before too.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Anthony Mann Uh.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
No, Joel McCrae and Barbara Stanwick.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Oh, yes, yes, they definitely did. Well. I know they
did after this because I think that she. I think
they're movie together called Trooper Hawk. I don't know. Is
that Joel McCrae. I actually can't recall. I know it's
directed by the guy who created the television version of

(18:12):
gun Smoke. I think it's Joel McCrae, but I'm not positive.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
I believe you. I'll believe you, Okay, yeah, audience out there,
just believe Hunter.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
You know, so I believe me, but yeah, I oh yeah.
And then did you have anything else to mention about
their TC in Vance.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
It's one of those things where the dramatic difference in ages,
Like Barbara Stanwick was not a young woman in nineteen fifty,
she was not an ingenu anymore, but she was still
just as beautiful, she was still just as competent, she
was still just as forceful. And it's a it's a
good kind of yang and yang relationship with Houston, because

(18:53):
Houston can get really big and then he can within
a within a microsecond, get really small and get really
granular and get into the heart of a situation, whereas
Barbara Stanwick is like, you know, she she's in one
of the great film noirs of all time, Double Identity,
where she is so she does so much with her

(19:16):
face without saying a single word, and in those relations
in those scenes, with the relationship between TC and Vance,
it's it's kind of remarkable how much of the movie
hinges on that and how well it works. And I
gotta say, it is weird that a dad is named
TC and his daughter's name Vance, because that's dangerously close

(19:38):
to the name of our vice president.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, that's true, That's very true. But yeah, I mean,
I love these two characters, and the performances are outstanding,
and I actually think the movie could potentially be a
slog if they weren't so terrific in it. I think,
I think it's interesting to see her. I mean, the

(20:05):
way that she acts around him, it's it's basically like
she's in love with him. I mean she even you know,
she even calls him TC instead of calling him dad
or father. And it definitely doesn't feel like a relationship
between a father and daughter at all. And and even
from the beginning, like she dresses herself and her mother's

(20:29):
clothes before TC comes home, I feel like that's yeah,
And I feel like that hence ets something psychologically weird
going on.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh definitely.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
And I I do love what I think is one
of the turning points in the movie, and that's when
the character played by Judith Anderson. I think it's flow,
it's flowing flow, that's okay. When the scene where she
scratches TC's lumbars, which is of course an ongoing thing

(21:02):
set up earlier in the movie, that feels like something
that someone would do for their significant other. And then
what that scene, what it does to dance? Like her
response to that, like she I feel like she looks
she realizes that she's being replaced by her father's new woman.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, totally. And it results in, of course, as all
these scenes do scissors to the face.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yes, which feels.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Daring even for nineteen fifty. I mean, Judith Anderson is
barely in this movie, but she gets the best scene
in the entire film because she takes scissors to the face.
Not a lot of actors sizz will do that for you,
but man called upon her and she supplied it. And boy,
is that one of those shocking moments of blood where
I'm just like, I'm not used to this this early.

(21:57):
I'm used to this maybe in the sixties or in
the seventies, but not this early. So like you were saying,
it kind of feels like a like a pre code
film at times. I think that's definitely one of those times.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, And I love that scene. I think Stanwick is
amazing in that scene. And and there and the moment
when she's walking slowly down the stairs and everyone else
is rushing around her that kind of actually gave me,
some carry vibes, but she is really great in it.

(22:34):
But yeah, what what did you think? I mean, you
talked about this a little bit, but what did you
think of Judith Anderson's character and kind of what she
brings to the movie.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
I like that she's kind of the the ultimate manipulative shrew,
like she's she's basically in there to throw a monkey
wrench into J into I almost said JD Vance into
PC and Vance's relationship. It is she's the replacement for
the daughter, who is the replacement for the wife. And

(23:01):
I think, as an audience, even though it is unhealthy
the relationship between uh TC and Vance, I think we're
supposed to interpret that this might be a worse relationship
than the one she's already in.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that there are some just really
good moments between Anderson and uh and Barbara stamic I love.
Actually we haven't I haven't mentioned the uh the brother,
Vance's brother. I think his name is Clay. I like

(23:39):
the moment when I think Judith Anderson's care I think
Flow is playing the piano and Clay and Vans are
talking and Van says something about how she can't do
anything to stop Flow and I think it's interesting because

(24:00):
nobody is really quite a match for Stanwick in this.
I mean, I guess you could say Rip is on
some level, but I like how Stanwick is like this
really strong emotional but emotional character, and Judith Anderson comes

(24:21):
in and kind of like effortlessly out out does her,
And there's something about it that I think is very
effective and and I like kind of the the path
it kind of sends danwic on afterwards.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
And it's it's worth saying that the relationship between Rip
and Dvance seems okay at first, they have real chemistry.
If this was like twenty years later, those characters would
be screwing, no doubt. But then he hits her and
ignores her advances, and immediately, can I cuss on this show? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, why not?

Speaker 2 (24:59):
I am immediately said, fuck this guy. Go ahead, be
with your dad if that's what makes you happy, don't
be with this guy. Don't be with Wendell Corey. This
is this is unacceptable. And so in that moment where
or she she kind of proves that she can't handle
another woman in her father's life, I'm kind of like, yeah,
I get it, because the guys you're around are kind

(25:20):
of trash.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah, Now I did touch on this a little bit,
but my main issue with the movie is the Vance
and Rip relationship. Like I think Wendell Corey as a
performer is no match for Stanwick or Walter Houston, and
I find where the relationship goes to be kind of

(25:43):
unbelievable and it's also monotonous how they're kind of like
on again, off again. But I think his entrance into
the movie is really good. Like he you know, he
shows up at at Clay's wedding and and you know
when he threatens TC, he actually has a he actually

(26:04):
has a line that reminded me of the Drake and
Kendrick Lamar rat beef because Rip tells TC stopped telling
lies about me, and I won't tell truth about you,
which if you're a Kendrick Lamar fan, you know that's
something that he says about Drake and euphoria.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
This is all brand new to me, but I'm loving
this comparison.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yes, oh oh, you get you got to get into
this rap beef because it is It's produced some really good,
really good songs.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Spike makes the best rap. Everybody knows it.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Oh yeah, it's like part of the recipe for creating
great rap music. But but I think the way that
the movie ends with them talking about naming their son
after TC, I was kind of like, how did we
get here? Like this feels a little bit wrong to me,

(27:01):
But what do you think about kind of the rip
and vance on and off again romance and where it
leads to.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
I think it does become kind of tedious because it's
if this was a TV show, if it was Cheers,
that's what you show up to expect they're going to
get close, but then not really, they're going to take
two steps forward, two steps back because you need to
have people come in next week. But this is a
theatrical film, so the rules are different. But at the

(27:28):
same time, like them being together at the end doesn't
work for me. And what really doesn't work for me
is by naming the kid TC. They're naming their child
after a guy who prints his own money like Disney dollars. Yeah,
basically is responsible for the complete financial ruination of an
entire territory. It's kind of like, and we all loved him,

(27:51):
and I'm like, whoa we did? Are we sure about that?

Speaker 1 (27:56):
That's exactly how I felt it just felt the ending
I think is kind of a misstep. But I do
think there are some good scenes between them. I like
the scene where he tells her he says something along
the lines of like, she's in love with hate and
when you when you love hate, there's no room for

(28:17):
anything else. Like, I think that's a good moment.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Good line too. Damn.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, but I just don't buy them living happily ever
after considering everything they've been through, and and especially after
he lets uh TC buy him out of pursuing her,
like why would Vance fall for him again? Like it?
I I just thought that that was kind of kind

(28:43):
of absurd, and the idea, the.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Rooting for the relationship and gone with the wind when
it ends with Frankly, my dear, I don't give a
damn that that's how this movie should have ended, with
Barber Stamock walking out going listen, buddy, my dad's dead.
My Disney dollar aren't worth anything. I'm out of here.
I'm gonna go have a kid my white dress with
somebody else, somebody who doesn't look like Jiel McCrae.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, that would have been a much better ending.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
That's why I should be writing westerns. Uh, seven years ago,
and you should get into my time machine and bring
The Furies, which is a Criterion selection, comes with the
entire novel in the case, So now I got to
look through it and see what great lines I could
then bring into the time machine with me and lay

(29:37):
credit la credit, lay credit to. I'll do the same
with Red River because they also included the book there.
We're not discussing Red River today, but you know, hey,
it's a good written movie, so take as many bone
moans as possible.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah. No, I agree, there's.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Room in that time machine. You're gonna bring two books.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
All right. Now on another character we haven't mentioned yet
is Juan Herrera, who's played by Gilbert Roland. Yes, and
I do. I really like him, and he's in quite
a few movies I'm a fan of. He's in The Seahawk,
the Errol Flynn Swashbuckler. I love that movie outstanding, and
he's also in The Bad and the Beautiful he plays
Gaucho And I know I mentioned that movie earlier because

(30:23):
it's the same screenwriter as The Furies, and I do
really enjoy the moments between Vance and Wan. I actually
think it's genuinely sad when Vance says till our eyes
meet again before like TC and his crew hang wan. Like,
that's a very affecting scene to me.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, it's it's heartbreaking what happens to him, Like it's
one of those he's one of those characters that truly
what did he do wrong? What was his misstep?

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Why does he have a rope around his neck? That
is that is frontier justice and in the most negative
way possible. Everything negative that you could infer about that
phrase is encapsulated in that scene of him getting hanged.
It really is tragic.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, Now what did you think of the of the
storyline with the squatters?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
I thought it was kind of progressive for nineteen fifty
and that you definitely identify with them, and there isn't
they're not dehumanized like Native Americans are, and basically every
Western in which they appear right and as somebody with
a with a half Hispanic background, there's something about that

(31:41):
that made me very emotional.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, no, I bet, I do think that that scene
is very emotional, and I think that I do think
it's it's very interesting the way that Dvance like, what's
so bad to protect them? And of course she does

(32:04):
although you know, she does have kind of like a
change of heart at one point and then she flip
flops on it. Again. There's a lot of flip flopping
in this movie. But but yeah, I do think the
everything with the Squatters is pretty compelling. And I think

(32:26):
I think the idea of kicking Wan off the land
you're being completely Oh wait, am I about to make
the same point again? I think I think I almost
said the same thing.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
This movie is circular and it's the movie, it's not you.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, I agree, the movie working on your brain.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
It's an elliptical film.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
But yeah, but no, I do think the scenes with
Wan and Vance are really good, and part of me
actually wishes that tease. Like, I like that the squatters
and I think it's Wan's mother who ends up shooting
TC in the end. Yes, I I kind of love

(33:08):
that it seems like they're just gonna get away with it.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, that is because and usually in westerns they do. Yeah,
either either the the good guy gets murdered at the
very end or he gets away scott free, no matter
what horrible shit is transpired. And it is good that
that TC takes it in the back. I was satisfied
to see that happen. I think it happens about thirty

(33:32):
minutes too late, but I'm glad it happened like I
would I would rather him get shot at like the
the end of the second act and then make the
third act all about Vance taking over the ranch. If
to me, that's what I would do. But then again,
none of my screenplays have ever been published, so take

(33:53):
that as you will.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Now. The only actually I feel like this happens. This
is how I feel like on a couple of episodes
I've done where either myself or the guest has kind
of kind of proposed a rewrite of this movie. And
I actually I do like your idea of having TC
die at the end of the second act. Now, I
think one thing that could have been interesting is Clay

(34:20):
if he had somehow the brother, if he had somehow
usurped them all and been the one who was kind
of like quietly waiting for the best time to take
over the furies and become the most powerful person in
the family. I think that could have been pretty a
pretty interesting direction for the movie to go.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, then it becomes Dallas, but like thirty years ahead
of time. Yeah, and it basically just becomes the Ewings
and I'm on board for that. You kidding me? Barbara
Stanwick on Dallas. That would be amazing, and she would
be the one to shoot Jr. We all know that.
Let's not pretend that she wouldn't or Wan's mother would
do it. Whatever. I guess Wan's mother can be on

(35:05):
Dallas too. I don't know the actress's name, but you
can never have too many hunting you can never have
too many people on Dallas.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
So oh yeah, we would find we would find a
role for her in Dallas. For sure.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
She should be Ellie May or whatever. I don't know
anybody on Dallas. I'm flexing based on what information I
learned from I love the eighties, and all I know
is that Jared gets shot and Patrick Duffy gets hit
by a car, and then a season later wakes up
and is taking a shower and he's not dead anymore.
That's literally all I know about Dallas and their last name.

(35:40):
Now I've completely laid myself bare. I'm ready for recrimination.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, I've got to say I I don't know anything
about Dallas at all, So you're way ahead of me.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Well that makes me feel good, So thank you.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Hunter, You're welcome. Now. That's pretty much all I have
to say about it, Like, do you have any final thoughts?
Are there any other moments that you wanted to discuss?

Speaker 2 (36:10):
You know, I think I've covered all my points.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, I think I'm I will say, I'm really glad
that I rewatched it, because if I had only watched
it the one time leading up to this, I think
the conversation would not as have been as good. Maybe
and maybe when I did, like rewatch it the first time,
you know, you know, preparing for this, you know, maybe

(36:35):
I just wasn't in the mood for this or whatever.
But the second time, like, I watched it again a
few days ago, and I was just way more into it,
mostly based off of the performances, Like I felt like
the Stanwick and Houston are just like electrifying in this.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
I watched it twice in one day two days ago
because I wanted to make sure that I knew what
I was talking about. And one of those times was
with the audio commentary that's on the Criterion Blu Ray
that is outstanding, if not unbearably pretentious, But if you
can stomach it, you learn so much about not only

(37:16):
the theories in its place in the Western canon, but
where everybody in the film falls in line on that cannon,
and where it fits in the ouvra of Anthony Mann,
where it stands in the over of Barbara Stanwick, it
doesn't really stand and the ov of Walter Houston because

(37:38):
it's more of an epilogue than it is to anything,
especially with him right. But it's one of those things
where it gave me a greater appreciation. And I think
that if you enjoy the movie but don't love it,
I highly recommend buying that Blu ray and listening to
the commentary because if you can take the commentator and
kind of tune him out occasionally, I think you will
actually learn something about this film.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Huh, who does the commentary? I actually don't have the
Blu ray?

Speaker 2 (38:03):
You know what? I have it sitting right here, So
let me look. Okay, the iudio commentary is from film
historian Jim Kitsies.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
I don't know who that is me neither. All right, Ryan,
where can you find us on? Find you on social media?
And then what's coming up? What are some things that
you'll be covering on your podcast coming up?

Speaker 2 (38:28):
A new episode will be coming out on Uncut Gems
with Phil Iskove, host of podcasts like It's the two Thousands.
It'll be his second appearance on the show. I'm really excited.
We haven't recorded it yet and I haven't listened to
the commentary front Cut Gems yet, but it was one
of those feelings when I was in the theater, I
felt like I was having one hundred and forty minute

(38:49):
panic attack. And that's the best endorsement I can give
of a film. And if you want to find me
on social media's I'm on basically on Instagram and blue
Sky on in instag It's one that is the numeral
one track Mind podcast, and I'm blue Sky. It'sn Trackmind
dot bsky dot social, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Podchaser.

(39:11):
I have a Patreon, Patreon dot com slash one track
Mind podcast where you can get three hundred hours of
bonus content, including every single episode of the two podcasts
that are the not antecedents, but I guess the precedents
of One Track Mind the Coolness Chronicles and the Shirley Chronicles,
the first of which covers the history and legacy the

(39:34):
entire history and legacy of mystery Science Theater three thousand
and the other one covers the history of comedy on
film over the course of seventy years, as seen through
the prism of Zucker Abram Zucker, who did Airplane and
Top Secret, Val Kilmer Rip and did the Naked Gun movies.

(39:58):
And then you can find Reels of Justice on Blue Sky.
Yet very frustrating, they're still on bat Old Twitter. You
can find them on Instagram and Twitter at Reels of Justice.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
All right, excellent, Well, Ryan, thank you so much. This
was great.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Thank you for having me. This was a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
I hope you enjoyed this episode. And I'm so glad
Ryan suggested the Furies. And I'm also glad I watched
it more than once before this review. I was really
able to enjoy it more and I think it led
to a much better discussion than we would have had
if I'd only watched it once. But what did you
think of this week's episode and what are your thoughts
on the Furies? You can let me know by emailing
me at Tumbleweeds and Tvcowboys at gmail dot com. You

(40:41):
can follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and x All the
links are in the show notes. Next week, we have
a huge episode. Doctor will Dotson is back, and this
time we're talking about a classic. Please tune in next
week to hear our discussion on John Ford's Stage Coach.
Until then, if you're looking for more film related podcasts,
please check out the shows on the Someone's Favorite Productions

(41:02):
podcast network. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
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(41:28):
From hidden gems to blockbuster hits, The disc Connected brings
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Subscribe to the Discconnected on YouTube or on the podcast

(41:50):
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Speaker 1 (42:02):
Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the
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