Episode 18: Gunsmoke Episodes 7-9 w/ Dan Budnik

TV historian and author Dan Budnik returns to review episodes 7-9 of the first season of Gunsmoke. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome back to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys, a classic Western
film and TV podcast. My name is Hunter. This week
Dan Budnick is back to cover episode seven through nine
of the first season of gun Smoke. We're going to
get right into it. Here's our conversation.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Gun Smoke, starring James Arnest as Matt Dilla. Welc to
you by Ellen Are Ellen am the modern cigarette that
gives you a full exciting flavor. What's the miracle tip?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
All right, well, welcome back Dan. How's it going.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
It's going okay? Yeah, as always ready to ready to
talk a little bit of gun smoke.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh, I'm always ready to talk gun smoke. This is
probably the thing out of I mean, I look forward
to every episode that I record, but I really look
forward to these because I always have a blast talking
with you and its movies are great fun to discuss.

(01:27):
But for some reason, talking about a TV series like
I think there were one thing. There's less podcast talking
about TV shows, especially like Yes from this era. And
so sometimes when I'm talking about a movie, I'm talking
about a movie that's been talked about many times, so
I feel like it's harder to kind of add something

(01:48):
new to it. But this I feel like is new
because it just isn't out there, which makes it fun.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I love as you know, I
love talking about all sorts of TV shows. But to
go back this far in sort of American TV history
and pick a show that was so important and just
begin at the beginning with a sort of a clean slate,
you know, Dodge City has just been settled where they're
we're ready to go, is a lot of fun. I
think it's almost pioneering, but not crazy pioneers like we

(02:18):
might see later on in this episode, but sort of
you know, sane.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, Nairs absolutely all Right, Now, before we get into
gun smoke, do you have any updates on your Second
Doctor Who book or is there anything else that you
wanted to announce that would be coming out early June?

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, the Second Doctor the second volume will actually be
coming out at the end of June because May thirty first,
the current series just ended, so the second volume will
cover up to the episode that aired May thirty first,
the Reality War. So if you're buy the first volume,
you're getting nineteen sixty three November ninety sixty three on

(02:59):
One Earthly Child to around March or April of seventy
nine with the Armageddon Factor. Then volume two will pick
up in autumn of seventy nine with Destiny of the
Dialects and go to May thirty first of this year
with the Reality War. So all together, all together, it's
nine hundred pages plus of me chatting about Doctor Who,
but at the moment only the first volume is out

(03:20):
stand by for the second one, it'll be out next
time we speak. It'll be out barring something going horribly wrong,
which I hope doesn't happen, but you know it's I
think in between this one and the next one, Volume
two will be out. And on Evention Supertrain, my my
sort of main podcast, we are still discussing. I'm still

(03:42):
discussing with my friend Christopher Bly. We're doing still doing
BRONC the Jack Palliance Alliance mid seventies cop show, which
sadly isn't getting better than I was hoping it. It
started off average and it's kind of dipping a bit unfortunately.
And then the great Mitchell Hadley and myself for discussing
Garrison's Gorillas, which is still a lot of fun. And

(04:04):
I just finished Misfits of Science and I'm starting a
brand new old show with a guest who people who've
been listening to the show for a while will recognize
this person has been on the show for a while.
I won't say what the show is, but I will
say two things. One, it's the newest show we've covered.
And two I'll give you one name, Adam Scott. And

(04:27):
I'm just going to stop right there. So that's it.
That's all I'm going to say next time we talk
this show. I don't like to give away the full
thing around the Friday the thirteenth, And actually the show
is kind of works for Friday the thirteenth, the episode
will go up with this brand new old show on it.
So we continue and the next time we talk, July
fourth is the anniversary. So July fourth is the ninth

(04:50):
anniversary of eventually Supertrains. So that's exciting a lot of
exciting things going on, or not if you don't listen
to them or read my books. So so, but now
I'm here for more gun smokes. So let's let's let's
go to Dodge City.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I'm ready, I'm ready, all right, excellent, Well, let's get
into it. We're covering three episodes again, and we're starting
with episode seven, which is titled Smoking Out the Nolans
and it aired on November fifth and nineteen fifty five,
and it is based on an episode of the radio
show that released on November sixth of nineteen fifty four,

(05:25):
and the name of the squatters did change and the
radio episode their name is They're the Beatles. Oh, and
I think the Nolans is an improvement on the Beatles.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yes, I think so.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
But the story is credited to John Meston and the
screenplay was written by Charles Warren. I and I should
say here so I've been saying Charles Marquiz Warren. But
there's a Facebook page called the Legacy of Gun Smoke,
and somebody on that page corrected me and apparently it's
pronounced Charles Marquis Warren.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
Oh is Marquis?

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Okay, it is Marquee. So I'm going to try to
say that, say it that way moving forward.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Fun It's funny because now w Ahill I can think
of is Biz Marquee, and smoking out the Nolans sounds
like a title of one of his tunes, yes, or
smoking with the Nolans or something like that.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
So yeah, so I will try. I might slip into
Marquiz at some point, but I'm gonna try. I'm gonna
try to go with Marquee though.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
Marquee and I will correct you. There's nothing worse than
having a guest on who's in the background going you
got it wrong again?

Speaker 2 (06:33):
So all right, So yeah, and so there are just
a handful of guest stars in this episode. John Larch,
who I think is pretty recognizable. He was in Seven
Men from Now, which is one of my favorite Bud
Bettecker westerns. And he was also in Written on the Wind,
the Douglas Sirk melodrama, and he plays Clay in this
and he was in seven episodes of Gun Smoked total.

(06:55):
And then Ainsley Pryor plays Josh Nolan, who I'm not
familiar with at all, but we will be more familiar
with him Dan because he's in two episodes later this season.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
Oh wow, nice.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yes, And then he was also in an episode in
season three. And then Gene Bates plays Missus Nolan. And
she was in the last episode we covered, episode six,
which was titled night Incident.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well really, she was in two episodes, played different characters. Yep.
Oh wow, it's almost like they're almost like like what
not ensemble cast, but the the you know, where they
have the same people playing the same different characters every episode.
I forget what the kind of cast that is, but wow,
that's that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Well yeah, and then and then finally there's also there's
mister Burgess and he's played by Edward Platt. He is,
and of course I think anybody would know him from
as the chief from Get Smart. Yes, and this was
his only appearance on Gun Smoke. But he's of course
he's in a lot of movies and TV series people
would know. I mean, he's in north By Northwest, He's

(07:57):
in Cape Fear, and just a bunch of TV shows.
All right, well, Dan, can you give us the synopsis
for this episode?

Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yes, I shall, and before I do, if I don't
remember by the end, I have a theory about who
and Platt's character actually is by the end. But if
I forget by the end of the episode, remind me.
And if you can't remind me, we'll do it the
next one. It's not that important, but I had I
had a theory just right before you started recording. Anyway,
Smoking Out the Nolans. It's mister Clay owns a bunch

(08:28):
of land. Uh, mister Burgess wants to buy the land
free of anyone else on the land, any squatters or anything.
And there's a couple named the Nolans who live in
I think they call it a side house.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
I think it's a house.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
Is it a sod house? I thought they said side house. Okay,
they live in a small house on the property. And
and mister Clay says they're squatters and he wants them off,
and he has a court order signed by a judge,
and he goes to Marshall Dylan and says, Marshall, sorry,
this might get you killed, because they're pretty gun happy people,
the Nolans. But you got to drive them off the

(09:05):
land because I need to sell it. And so Matt
goes in there to talk to them and drive them
off the land. But there's a little bit, a little bit,
a little something exkews it a little bit where we're
both of Nolans say we're not squatters. We paid Clay
one hundred and seventy dollars, which adjusted for inflation, is
over five thousand dollars. And actually that's that's not quite

(09:26):
eighteen eighty. I couldn't get back to eighteen eighty for that,
but it's over five basically gave him over, mister Clay,
over five thousand dollars are in our our time money,
and he gave them a deed. But they don't have
the deed because he took the deed. Mister Clay took
the deed from them to register it, and of course
they don't find any sign of the deed being registered.

(09:48):
And Matt has no choice but to smoke out the nolans.
Ah But who is someone lying? Is someone not lying?
Is there's something going on? Will a bunch of people
get shot? We'll talk about it, we'll talk about it.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
All right, Dan, Well, what did you think of this episode?

Speaker 4 (10:09):
Uh? Overall, overall, I enjoyed it. It's got a uh,
it's got sort of a it's it's it's like, is
it the is it the second one? There's probably been more.
It's sort of the second one where along with that
one with that jerk who was in town who Matt
had to let leave because he didn't commit any crimes,
this one is sort of like that where he has
to drive out a decent cup, well decent Ish couple

(10:33):
out of their home that they say is theirs because
someone got a court order to do it. It's one
It's one of those a man's got to do, what
a man's got to do kind of thing. And overall,
I think it works. It builds to a nice climactic
scene and some a weird alley that has some strangely
perspective sheds in them. And if you've seen it, you

(10:57):
know what I mean, because what when it starts off
in scene like the mister Nolan's like he's lying laying
down on top of a shed like with his feet
towards us and his body sort of stretching into the
distance with his gun, and it looks like it looks
like a weird like Salvador Dolly built the alley or
something like that. It just it looks like it looks
like the people in the back when they walk towards
us are gonna have to start to hunch over or

(11:19):
something like that. It's a really weirdly perspective alley. But
but overall I think I I I like the I
I like the fact that that it they they did.
They do claim that they did pay for it. And
Clay says no, they didn't, but it doesn't matter because
they have that they have the Clay has the court order,

(11:40):
and the Nolans are very shooty, and but but Clay,
in Clay's defense, he he doesn't want them to get hurt.
He's doing I mean, he is starving them and not
letting them get water, but but he doesn't want to
shoot them. And so so overall, it's it's, it's it's

(12:01):
it's kind of presented as sort of, well, I was
gonna say it's an ethical dilemma for Matt, but it's
actually not, because he just goes ahead and do it,
does it. But at the same time you know that
one of them is lying. There was either money exchange
hands and indeed exchanged hands with the money, or or
it didn't. And the thing about it is that the

(12:21):
trigger thing with it is that I like to when
I watch stuff like this, I don't like to think
too far ahead. I like to stay in the moment.
You know, you watch stuff with people and they go, oh,
that guy's lie and oh he did you know that
kind of thing. I don't like to do that. I
like to stay in the moment. But the thing about
the episode is that Clay is just kind of he

(12:41):
looks a bit not weasily but fidgety when he's sort
of out there doing his thing. And when he's standing
with mister Burgess, you know, the chief is there looking
very yes, I'm mister Burgess, you asked about me, and
and Clay is very kind of not not quite pensive,
but sort of like I didn't get an I didn't
give him a deed. What are you talking about? You

(13:03):
got to go out there, just the way he goes
up to Matt and says, Matt, I'm sorry to do this.
This might get you killed, but get these people off
my property. And you're like, wow, Okay, well, I guess
it is the Old West. But the thing with the
Nolans is that as much as I wanted to think that,
and I don't want to give anything away, but as
much as I wanted to think that either one of

(13:23):
them could have been lying, there's something about sort of
the intelligence level of the Nolans that makes me think
almost instantly that they're not lying. There's something just And
I was actually going I was actually going to quote
a famous Western that kind of describes these people, this couple,

(13:44):
because the first time you see them. They've got their
guns and every time they come out, they got their
guns and they're shooting. And you know, it's like, did
he give you a deed? Yeah, he gave me a
piece of paper and I can't read, so I just
kind of set it down and you're like, okay, well,
you know, I mean maybe if you're giving I mean
the theory being that one hundred and seventy dollars is
a lot of money in that time, and if you're
giving it to someone and they're giving you a paper

(14:06):
in return, don't just do throw it down in a drawer,
act like it didn't happen. That's an important piece of paper.
I mean, I can't imagine Clay were like, thank you
for giving me the money. Oh, here's a paper, Well
look over there, and he like threw the paper on
a table and act like it was nothing. So so
the thing with the it's tricker because I wanted it
to be very much a who is it? Maybe they'll

(14:28):
surprise me. But the thing with the Nolans, I'm going
to read you this quote from a movie. It's from,
like I said, it's a famous Western and it describes
the Nolans perfectly and when I've done with the quote,
you'll say, oh, okay, it's probably they're probably not lying.
And it's this quote. You've got to remember that these
are just simple farmers. These are people of the land,

(14:50):
the common Clay of the New West, you know, morons,
And that describes to me sort of the Nolans. They're
proud that they got their guns, and they're proud that
they can't read. They're proud that they ignore the deed
they were given or maybe they weren't given. But they
are honest in their ignorance, as it were. Whereas Clay,

(15:14):
like I said, throughout, is sort of like he's a
little pensive and he's a little throughout. So overall, I mean,
it's not to if pardon me, if if I were
to like introduce someone to gun smoke, I don't know
that I've show them this episode, but it's an okay episode.
And hey, Chester actually does something in this episode. He
smoked them out. Rather than just stand around and comment,

(15:36):
he does something. And there is a lovely scene between
Doc Kitty and Marshall Dylon right near the end, where
where Doc and Kitty are sitting up on the steps
going up to Doc's plays and Kiddy's going to work
in half an hour and Matt goes up and talks
to them, and it's funny. It's clear like with the
three of them talking together that Matt's the dim bulb

(15:58):
in the group, which is kind of fun because he's
the hero. But when he's talking to Kitty at Doc
there like running and he says that too, it's stuff
to have a conversation with you, because they're kind of
picking on him a little bit and sort of running
around at circles, but all in good fun, and that's
kind of it's if nothing else happened in the episode,
and other stuff does happen, that scene is worth the episode,

(16:21):
but overall not a great episode. But I think a
decent episode of gun Smoke.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, I thought it was okay. I loved that it
started off on boot Hill and all three of these
episodes do. And I really think these scenes set the
tone really well for the show, and like it really
puts me in the mood for gun Smoke, and I do.
I actually enjoyed it a little more the second time around.

(16:50):
But I think there's not a lot you can do
with the conflict in this episode to make it that
tense or exciting, and I did think it was a
little predictable where it was going. And I feel like
we've said this about a couple episodes, but I did
think the ending was a little unsatisfying. And it's funny

(17:11):
that you mentioned the alley that the climaxis is set in,
because I was wondering, like, was the alley they intended
to shoot on not available and then they had to
set up this.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
Uh, it looks like a stage alley. It looks like
like it's on a stage. And really like the everything
looks like it's got you just push it, it would fall over,
you know, like in Blazing Saddles, all the big fake
buildings that they said, yes, confuse everyone, you know, that's
what you're right, That's what it looks like. It looks
like they're doing some stage craft.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
And it looks like they put a shed there just
to have something for Nolan to be on.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
Who is that in the alley? I'm writing out my
shed in the alley? All right? He got a shed
for rent? Get off my shed? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
And then and then also when when Matt and Chester
are walking down the street that Josh Nolan is hiding on,
I feel like, it is pretty obvious they should be
able to spot him, and when Chester has to point
out to Matt, like, oh, he's over there, it seems
a little silly. But you know, I feel, I don't
know if that's an unfair criticism. I mean, this is

(18:22):
I'm sure the limitations on making Western TV series in
the fifties probably made it challenging to, you know, make
something more cinematic or maybe technically more sophisticated. But but yeah,
I agree about the scene with Doc, Kitty and Matt.
I did think it was kind of a weird, like

(18:43):
comic beat in the episode, but I did think it
worked and got I thought that Kitty had a little
more personality in this than we have seen from her
previous year.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
Also, yeah, yeah, she's having she's having fun. Her and
Doc were clearly having a pleasant chat. Now now Matt's there,
and they like Matt, but you know Matt, Matt, Matt
has a specific thing he does and maybe like when
all three of them are together, he doesn't always keep
up and there's that kind of feeling, which I liked.
I liked. I thought it was very sweet.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
So yeah, and I thought the guest stars were pretty good.
I liked John Larch in general, and and like you,
I really liked that Chester was involved throughout. And yes,
and he did he did, he did do something.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Now I did listen to the radio version, and there
are some differences that we can we can talk about. Okay,
So the opening scene from the TV version is not
in the radio version, which it starts off with Clay
and like two people that I guess work for him
or maybe his brothers or something, and they are trying
to get the Nolans to h to come out. So

(19:52):
that that is not in the radio version. And the
radio it opens with Matt and Chester in the jail
talking about the stage coach coming into town but not
have any passengers. Oh, and that dialogue is almost word
for word in the from the radio to the TV version.
And then yeah, Clay shows her to tell them about
the squatters, and yeah, the two characters actually in the

(20:16):
opening scene are not in the radio version at all.
And then one thing that is weird in the radio
version is Matt gets the idea for smoking out the
squatters from a moment where he's sitting with Kitty and
she starts coughing, and then she says that and then
Matt asked her, is like if she's okay, and she

(20:38):
says that she got a whiff of something like breathing
the fumes off a match. And then Marshall Jyllan says, like, Kitty,
that's the best cough you've ever had, because it gave
me an idea.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
William Conrad saying that yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
And and so yeah, so that's where he gets the
idea from. And then, uh, the ending is completely different,
like the in the radio, Jim kills Clay Oh, and
he shoots him twice in the chest, and then Matt
Dylan kills Jim oh. And then somebody from a railroad

(21:17):
railroad company comes and tells Matt that he bought Clay's property,
and that's when Dylan realizes that Clay. Why Clay wanted
to sell well, we want to Jim off the land
is because he was selling it to the railroad company.
And then Matt tells the railroad company that Jim's wife

(21:40):
was the owner of the land and that to give
her the money for the sale, okay, and so that
that that's that's that's how it ends. So it's uh, yeah,
of the of the episodes that we've watched so far
that are you know, adapted from radio. This is definitely
the one that has like the most significant differences for sure.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
But do you have any other thoughts on this episode?

Speaker 4 (22:06):
Let me check my notes. I was gonna let me
tell you my mister Burgess thoughts. So you see, you
see ed Platten, it's clearly the chief, and the whole
time you're sitting there thinking it's the Chief and you see,
but he's kind of dressed up. He's he's almost like
dressed up, sort of like a dandy or something like that. Yeah,
he's kind of like hello, Hello, Yes, I'm mister Burgess.
And all I could think of was that was that

(22:28):
he is he is part of the same contingent he
he he was doing something. He's undercover. So mister Burgess
is an undercover agent working for the government in the
same way that like Jim West and Artemis Gordon were
in the Wild Wild West. So he's some sort of
undercover guy trying to get a hold of this land
for some reason. So while the gun smokes story is

(22:50):
going on, he's doing something cool and wild, wild westy.
And the great thing about it is that I love
the thought that if if you were to look through
an album of like and gets smart, Like if the
Chief had a photo album or an album of his relatives,
one of his relatives from the Old West would be, uh,

(23:10):
this guy who worked undercover for the government. And I
like to think of mister Burgess as the Chief's great
great granddad. So you know, in the way that like
the Greenhornet was related to Lone Ranger kind of thing.
You know, it's sort of looked sort of like mister
Burgess is actually the Chief's relative working and they're both
secret agents working for the government, and mister Burgess is

(23:33):
just out there a little more like Jim West was
Wild Wild West and stuff like that. So that's so
that's my theory that mister Burgess the way the way
whenever we see him, he's always kind of he seems
like he's in a slightly different show. And in the end,
no matter what happens, he says, well, I'm going to
buy the land anyways, And I thought, well, of course
you are, because the government needs it for something very important.

(23:56):
I like that. So that's my theory. I don't know
if he's he doesn't show up again in gun Smoke,
but That's the thing is if he's like Artemis Gordon,
like a master of disguise, he could have shown up
a lot and we just didn't know. M huh. There
are a lot of fake beards going on in this show.
Maybe he wears one of them. Yeah, So so that
was just something that was just something I thought when

(24:17):
I watched it was I to me, mister Burgess is
is a secret agent. So you know, it doesn't come
up in the episode. Maybe I don't know, and he's
not in the radio version, right, is it.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I don't think they name him as mister Burgess. I
think that they just say that somebody from the railroad company.
Maybe they do say his name. I just didn't Uh,
I just don't recall it.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
M h I think I think I do also like
having said that. I do also like that when because
you were mentioning the uh in the radio version, the
way he figured out how to smoke him out. I
do like that. And this is just like there's never
any question of like, well, well, how are you gonna
do it, Matt, how are you gonna get him out
of there? Don't worry, We'll take care of it. They
just show up with a bag of this whatever it is,

(25:02):
they throw down the chimney and they do it and
it's done. You know. It's it's like we do this
all the time, you know.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
It's yeah, it's it's kind of I like that, And
I think I think in general, yeah, I uh yeah,
there's no I mean, it's a pretty straightforward episode.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
I mean, so so I don't really have too much
more to say about it. Yeah, the I mean I do.
I I I did find the ending pretty tense. I
mean I kind of knew that, you know, Matt wasn't
going to get shot in the back. Yeah, you know,
but but you know it was nice to you know,
And and it is kind of it is a bit
Perry Mason esque, you know, where it's like at the
at the height, you know, someone says I did it.

(25:41):
I did it basically, and you know it's it's good
or it's bad. I don't know. I think it sounds
like the radio show had more sort of courage of
its convictions and kind of just went for it. But
this this this I didn't mind the ending of this.
And but but like like you said, I do spend
most of the time just just like looking at that
alley and and just thinking what is this alley? And

(26:03):
there's a weird there's a weird moment too, where so
so Nolan is on the shed with the gun, and
and Chester and Matt are in the middle of the alley,
and then you can hear them talking Burgess and Clay
blah blah blah blah blah. They around the corner and
they stop about three steps in because they see Matt
and they see Chester, and then I guess they see Nolan,
and they don't do what I would have done, which

(26:23):
was turn around and run out of the alley. It's like,
we're just gonna keep going through the alley. Well, it's
a turnaround to go the other way. I don't even know.
I don't even know where you are exactly in relation
to anything else in this town. Go out of the alley.
You may completely lose them, who knows. But but yeah,
it's it's. It's that's about it on this one. It's

(26:45):
it's it's I think in the in the in the
context of the show, it's a fun watch. Nothing fantastic,
but a fun watch. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
I think it's decent. It's it's average. It wasn't like
a chore at all. But but yeah, like you said earlier,
is if I was trying to get somebody interested in
Gun Smoke, this would not be the first episode for sure.
All right, Well, moving on, So we're moving on to
episode eight, which is called Kite's Reward. It aired on

(27:13):
November twelfth, nineteen fifty five, and the story and screenplay
were written by John Meston and he also wrote the
radio version, which aired on March fifth of nineteen fifty five.
And Adam Kennedy plays Andy Travis, and he's in another
episode of gun Smoke in season five, and he didn't
he wasn't He didn't act in very many things. He

(27:34):
only has twenty three credits and it's mostly TV stuff.
And he is in a a Charles Marky Warren movie,
a western called Tension at Table Rock. And then James
Griffith plays Joe Kite. And he was in so many
movies and TV shows. He's in six episodes of gun Smoke.

(27:54):
I mean, he has over two hundred credits on IMDb,
so I think you'd probably recognize him from something.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's one of those guys.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah yeah. And then the only other actor that I'll
mention is George Selk and he's in forty four episodes
of gun Smoke and he plays the stable owner Moss,
so he's like a kind of a recurring character. But
in just in forty four episodes. All right, well, Dan,
can you tell us what this one's about?

Speaker 4 (28:21):
Of course, a young man arrives in town name of
Andy Travis. He when he arrives, he immediately encounters a
guy who's been hanging around in Dodge City doing nothing
for a week. And this guy immediately comes up to
him and it's a little it's a little vague what
exactly he wants from Andy, but there's a there's a
quick draw moment, and Andy ends up shooting this guy down,

(28:43):
and Marshall Dylan comes in there and takes the gun
from Andy, and you know, says, yeah, I see that
it was in self defense. But you know, you're a
young man and you don't you know, and and people
saw you. Well he says, like, who is that guy?
I don't know, some crazy guy. Okay, Well, I'm gonna
take your gun, and I'm gonna keep your gun because
you don't want to get a a a reputation. As

(29:05):
you know, the quick draw the fastest gun in the
in the west kind of thing, because and he says,
when when they're back in the when they're back at
the in the sheriff's office, you know, he said, like,
right now, the bartender and everyone else in the bar
is talking about how quick you were on the draw,
and so people are gonna start to come into town
and begin to test you. And you don't want to

(29:26):
go down that route. That's not the way you want
to go. And he's like, okay, Well, he feels kind
of naked without the gun because he says he always
has the gun on him, but he'll give it a try.
And he gets a job at the stable and everything
seems very nice, and Miss Kitty likes him and everyone
in town seems to like him. But then a guy,
just kind of jerk guy shows up wanting to do
the quick draw thing, but they end up getting in
a fistfight, which Andy wins. But then a mister Kite

(29:50):
shows up looking for Andy, and things get a bit complicated,
well not that complicated, but more complicated than they were
a moment before mister Kite showed up. So and we learn, well,
I'm gonna leave it hanging there. I'm sure we'll talk
about what sort of andy Travis is. But yeah, this
is about a young guy arriving in town who Matt

(30:12):
is trying to keep from becoming to tied to his
gun and try just make you know, not be a gunfighter,
be a decent guy who doesn't have to draw the
gun to solve your problems kind of thing. And that's
and it's kind of Matt trying to teach a lesson.
Does he succeed? Well, I'm gonna leave it.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
There, all right, All right now, now, Dan, this is
more like it. I mean, this is what I want
from gun Smoke. I really enjoyed this episode. Now, one
of my favorite tropes in westerns is like the elite
gunman who has people after him who are trying to
make a name for themselves by taking out someone with

(30:54):
a reputation that exceeds their own. It just it always
works for me. And I think it's the perfect trope
like for gun Smoke to use and do something like
kind of different with. And I think the opening is
great and it's pretty well done too, like the editing
and like even the timing of the draw and when

(31:16):
Matt Dillon, like when he walks into the bar, it
kind of plays like he surprises the person who's challenging
Andy and and it sort of like messes up his
draw But yeah, I thought that that was really well done.
And I wouldn't say Adam Kennedy is like great as Andy,

(31:37):
but I think he's very likable. Yes, and I think
you really care about Andy. I think it's it's kind
of it's nice to see him like thrive for a bit,
like yes, after he stops carrying the gun, and yeah,
I really like, I really enjoyed this. If I have
any criticism, it's of James Griffith, who plays Joe Kite

(32:00):
talked about how Warren directs one actor in each episode
to like be in a trance or they're just like
distant and a little weird, and James Griffith is the
actor with that assignment in this episode.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
Yes, I agree, agree.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
And I might have enjoyed it more if he were
a more ordinary bounty hunter. And I don't know if
Warren I thought that this type of performance made a
character more sinister, Like I don't really know what his
intention is. But one thing it did remind me of

(32:36):
the first episode where remember the killer in the first
episode who who tells Matt like, I don't want any trouble,
but if there is any trouble and I kill somebody,
don't come looking for me. Marshall. I can't help but
that I kill people when I want to, you know,
like he is a lot like that character and so.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
And so.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
I do think it's a minor criticism overall, Like it
didn't take a lot away from the episode for me.
I still really enjoyed it. But what did you think?

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Dan?

Speaker 4 (33:05):
Yeah, I I generally my thoughts are are similar to yours.
I think it's I think it's it's it's well done,
and they do something very I think pretty clever in
the beginning where this guy's been in the town for
a week and yeah, Chester and Matt are just sitting
there watching him, going what's he doing? What's he doing?
And then when then when Andy shows up, he immediately

(33:27):
goes to talk to him, you know, there's the shootout
and and Matt so quickly is like, well, young man,
let me take that gun from you. And you don't
want to have that gun that you forget the question
of who was that guy?

Speaker 3 (33:44):
What?

Speaker 4 (33:45):
Why was he here for Andy? Why was he waiting
for you? Forget about that yeah, because it becomes about
Andy assimilating himself into Dodge City and becoming like you know,
and and because almost immediately that one jerk shows up
to try to you know, quick draw with him, and
so you think, oh, now he's gonna just have a

(34:05):
bunch of people coming after him to quick draw. And
if you think about the first guy, maybe you think
the same sort of thing, like oh, maybe he was
coming to test him out or something like that. And
it's nicely done because you and then when mister kite
there shows up, you're like, Okay, something else is going on,
and it's not just weird facial hair. There is something
else going on. And and then of course, like like

(34:29):
you mentioned, these are these are bounty hunters and you know,
spoiler to anyone, it's gone smoke, so we're not we're
not spoiling anything. But it's like, yeah, Andy turns out
to be a criminal from Wyoming who was part of
a gang, and Andy Travis is in his name and
he he's he's there trying to start a new life,
but they put a bounty on him. So these guys
are gonna keep coming into town. And I think the

(34:51):
thought from from Matt is that you know, this is
a young man who's going to go off the straight
and Narrow if he keeps pulling the gun. What Matt
doesn't know, because Andy doesn't tell him, is that he
went off the straight and Narrow a long time ago.
He's trying to come back, and unfortunately it's too late.

(35:11):
But for a few brief moments, and for I mean,
it's implied that he's there for a few days a
week to do something like that, so it's implied that
he has a lovely time there before mister Kite shows up,
and it has kind of a really I'm gonna talk
about the ending because I quite like the ending where

(35:34):
mister Kite comes to get Andy, and this point we
know that Andy was a criminal and mister Kite's a
bounty hunter out for him, and he's just kind of sitting.
They're facing each other and Andy reaches for his gun
that isn't there, and mister Kite shoots him because Amy
doesn't have his gun, and Matt blames himself because if
he hadn't reached for the gun, if there had been

(35:55):
a gun there, he would have shot mister Kite. And
his natural reaction was to reach for the gun even
though the gun wasn't there, which made mister Kai shoot him, right,
and so, and Matt blames himself, and I thought, I
can see where you're coming from, Matt, But actually some
of that blame is on Andy for not saying, actually,
I'm a wanted criminal and these are bounty hunters. Yeah,

(36:16):
and there's there's there's something. It's fun when you go
back and watch it the second time and you see
the way they sort of deflect it away from that.
So you immediately stopped because because when when he shoots,
you know, when when Matt walks in and distracts the
guy and and Andy shoots him, and and then it
becomes about Andy and the gun and stuff like that.
It's you like Matt so much that, like when he's

(36:40):
talking to Andy, you're like, yeah, come on, Matt, help
him out. And I hope this goes great for everyone. Well, uh,
but I I I like I like the way that's done.
I like I like the way the story, like I said,
deflex itself. So you can't you don't ask the question
that you should ask, which is why was the guy

(37:00):
for one week? For this guy to show up? That
doesn't seem like something you do if you were just
testing someone's draw on ability kind of thing, you know
that that that seems excessive waiting one week for him,
but it's it's completely forgotten when it happens, because Matt
is trying to maybe maybe like don't He doesn't say like,
don't go down the route I'm on, because Matt generally

(37:22):
seems to enjoy what he does. But you know, he
he does seem to be trying to help the young man.
And then and but overall, Yeah, I like it too.
I was I was actually thinking of a movie where
there's a like like the trope of the yeah, the
gunfighter who keeps getting a challenged. I was actually just
thinking of a movie that I quoted in the previous discussion,

(37:46):
the gunfighter in that one who gave up gunfighting and
then one day he heard someone yell draw and he
turned that it was like a ten year old kid
or something, and then he turned away from him and
forget forgive my language, but I believe the and he says,
and I dropped my gun and I turned away from him,
and the little bastard shot me in the ass. So
that was so that's kind of you know, where you know.

(38:09):
It's it's it's a lovely trope that got you know
that that's so prevalent in Westerns that he gets parodied
in probably the best parody Western unless you love Wrestler's Rhapsody,
and I don't begrudge you if you do. I enjoy
Wrestler's Rhapsody too. But but overall, yeah, I think I
think it's a strong episode. I think I think I
think you get to see Matt being really good but

(38:35):
unfortunately bungling it slightly, but but with the best of intentions,
with the best of it. Because in this one, I
like the last one say where he has to do
something that you could tell he doesn't want to do,
but he has to because it's his job, and this
one he's not doing this because it's his job. The
guy was in self defense, shot that guy in self defense.
He saw it. He was there, so he could easily

(38:56):
just say, you know, don't do it again, or maybe
you should leave or something like that. But no, he
takes him under his wing, he protects him, he brings
him under there, and then he gets killed. Yeah, so
so it's kind of it's kind of tragic, but it's
it's it's it's in the end, it's more sort of
like a I don't want to say it's even a
lesson learned. I don't know what it is. At the

(39:17):
end of the day. It's just a good episode of
gun Smoke, is what it is. So I can try
to figure out what what metaphorically I would say it is,
But overall, I just think it's a it's a good episode.
It's a good, strong episode of gun Smoke that has
some has some interesting stuff, is at its paced nicely,
and they introduced mister they introduced mister Kite at the
perfect time. Man, Like you said, I don't know exactly
what he's doing with that acting, but like like like

(39:40):
there's that point where he's in the foreground looking into
the saloon and Matt walks in between him and the
saloon doors, and then he turns and looks at him,
and even James Arnest seems to be going like, what
are you doing? Who's telling you to act like that?
And then he just walks into the saloon kind of thing.
But yeah, overall, I think I think it's I think
it's a it's a pretty strong episode, and uh it's

(40:04):
it's and it's it's it's yeah, like it's interesting because
it ends tragically, but it's not it does, it doesn't.
I did. I didn't feel terrible when it ended, like
like I was. I wasn't in tears or anything, but
I was sort of like, uh, it was one of
those endings where we just kind of go ah, darn
it kind of endings, you know, and you're not You're

(40:25):
not broken, but you're just like, oh, I wish that
it worked. Okay, well, I guess we got We still
have nineteen and three quarter seasons left, so we'll we'll
get it right eventually. So yeah, So over all, the
thumbs up for me on on Kite's Kites. Oh and
one more thing. I love the fact that the title
is intriguing because Andy is is because you think Andy's

(40:46):
gonna be called like Andy Kite or something like that.
You're like, Kite's reward, what does that mean? And then
halfway through the episode, I'm whatever, Jimmy Kite, I forget
his first name, you know, I'm Kite, and you're like, oh,
it's him, his reward, What's why? What does that mean?
And you like? I like that. I like that they
do that.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, yeah, it's I think it's really good. Now, there
are some differences in the radio version that I'll touch
on here quickly. One difference is Andy gets shot by
Kite like more in the middle of this of the episode.
He's actually shot in the street as soon as he
leaves the saloon after having a beer with Kitty, and

(41:24):
then Doc treats Andy but but can't save him. And
then when when Matt confronts Kite in the end, he
he tells him he sent a letter to I think
it's the Marshall and Laramie where Andy was wanted dead
or alive, and he told the Marshal that he killed

(41:45):
Andy so that Kite wouldn't receive his report. So it's
it's it's pretty similar. But I actually think the TV
version is is a little bit stronger than the radio version.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
I like the moment when like the because Kitty says
that you know, he's he's really Andy's really ingratiating himself
with the town, and the moment Kite kills Andy, like
four guys just kind of or three or four guys
like step into the barn where he is and kind
of like slowly move towards him and Marshal Dillon's kind
of stand in the back and kind of he's got
the look on his face like, well, they might lynch

(42:20):
you or they might not. I don't know though, because
I'm going to be doing something else. And then and
then you see mister Kite, I like when he's kind
of walking away from them, he gradually starts running, which
is a nice little moment.

Speaker 5 (42:33):
So so yeah, so yeah, I I I got a
lot of I got a lot of notes.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
Oh oh oh, I like the you're what is it?
Who who is? Does? Is it? Is it the stable
guy or is a doc or who whoever it is?
Who says that Marshall Dillon, you work too hard? And
then he says, oh, I'm the laziest man in Dodge, yeah,
which is which is a sweet moment. And then and
then there's a great little scene doc again. And these

(43:01):
little these little moments here that are in a lesser
episode probably would have been the highlight moments, but this
is a stronger episode, so they're just nice little little
character moments to have them them sort of show. And
and Chester goes fishing and is drunk. Yes he doesn't do.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Much, but yeah, he doesn't do much.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
Less one he's in our hearts.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yes, oh, always, always always. All right, well, do you
have anything else for that one? Or is that pretty
much cover it?

Speaker 4 (43:29):
I think that pretty much covers it. Yeah, you know,
I do like I do like what is it? Uh?
Doc and Dot? When Doc and Matt are talking and
I forget what it is that Matt says, but he's like,
uh uh and Doc says, you owe me twenty bucks.
Oh you know you're ten. Well, interest, what is it?

(43:50):
We uh you know, we're humans too, we have to
eat too, or something like that. And there's just a
lovely sort of back and forth between the two of them,
and I like, I like Matt's face. He's like, I
owe you twenty ten. So yeah, so overall, yeah's a
very good episode, and I think that about covers all

(44:11):
I had. I blabbed a lot when I was talking
about but there was a lot to talk about.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
All right.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Well yeah, well so yeah, two down and one to go.
So we're talking about episode nine, titled The Hunter, and
this one aired on Saturday. It's November twenty sixth in
nineteen fifty five, and the story and screenplay were written
by John Dunkel, who he also wrote the episode for Radio,

(44:36):
which aired in March of nineteen fifty six, so I
think this is the only episode so far that we've
seen where the radio adapted the TV screenplay.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
And then yeah, duncle also wrote. He wrote twenty five
episodes of gun Smoke, and he worked on other Western series.
He wrote I think twenty four episodes of raw Hide
and fifteen episodes of the Life and Legend of Wyatt Earb,
and he worked on some others as well. And then
the guest stars are Peter Whitney who plays Jace Murdoch.

(45:08):
He was in six episodes of gun Smoke, and he
has a ton of TV credits, and he was in
some pretty big movies. I think he was in the
Heat of the Night, and he's in The Ballad of
Cable Hogue, the Sam Peg and Pawm movie. And then
an action named Richard Gilden plays Golden Calf and you

(45:28):
should look up his photo on IMDb. It's actually from
a movie that Charles markis Warren directed called The Unknown Terror,
and his makeup is really special. It's tremendous. But yeah,
Guilden was in two episodes of gun Smoke, and then
Lou Vernon plays Ross the General store owner, and he

(45:52):
was also in episode six playing the same character, but
this is actually his final appearance in the series. Oh
and there is a brief write up in the TV
Guide from this week that I'll read here. But if
this is painfully boring, I am going to take it out.
But I'm going to give it a shot though. All right, So,

(46:13):
unlike other New TV westerns this season, gun Smoke furnishes
its hero with a girl, although in the Western tradition,
the hero doesn't get much chance for romancing. She's on
view in almost every episode, but the writers don't let
her interfere much with gun Smoke's taut, action packed stories,
which I don't know if that's I don't know how.

(46:33):
I don't know if I would describe it as that,
at least not every week. Yeah, but the CBS series
relates the exploits of Marshall Matt Dillon, excellently portrayed by
James Arness, which I completely agree with that, and the
program's writers have given him plenty of opportunity to display
his quick on the draw technique. So far, he has

(46:54):
killed a psychotic gunslinger who had wounded him in an
earlier gun battle. He has saved another gunman from being
lynched by an angry mob, and he has amputated the
leg of a wounded rancher. Each of these exploits is
a good day's work for any respectable Marshal Arnessa's back
stopped each week by a fine supporting cast. Dennis Weaver

(47:15):
is good as his crippled buddy Chester, and Amanda Blake
is extremely decorative as his saloon hosts his girlfriend.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
That's a nineteen fifty five critician.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Wow, and it says production and direction reflects skill and
attention to detail. Extremely decorative like this, so really strong.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Work, I guess yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
And for some reason, you're familiar with the Blu Ray
label vinegar Syndrome, right, sure, yeah, So for some reason,
the so far he has killed a psychotic gunslinger who
has wounded him in an earlier gun battle, he has
saved another gunman from being lynched by an angry mob,
and he has amputated the of a wounded rancher. For
some reason reminded me of Vinegar Syndrome copy. If you

(48:05):
ever read their copy, it's always just it's always just
like yeah, extreme practical gore. Yeah, gorgeous Italian women. It's
like they like the key like bullet points that they
hit in every Yes, they they oversell their stuff remarkably well.
But yeah, but Dan, what is this episode about?

Speaker 4 (48:28):
Okay, this is there's a gentleman named Murdoch who comes
into town and we first see him with his sort
of like Indian brave who he travels with, uh, and
he he's with a general store guy and he is
setting up a hunt. He's hunting I think he's hunting,
hunting buffalo, and the inference is that he's hunting buffalo

(48:49):
for the general star guy. So you get pelts and
such and whatever it is. The general store guy sells,
and Murdoch was one of the early I don't I
I don't know. I guess pioneers. I'm not sure what
you'd call him. But the implication is that like twenty
years ago or so, Dodge City was overrun with these big, burly, loud,

(49:11):
violent guys who tamed the Old West. And now it's
so sort of one of those things. If you think
Dodge City in this show is the Old West. No, no,
this was the Old West or the Wild West. I
guess the Wild West. I don't know, but he's basically
he's a guy from another time and he's a hunter.

(49:31):
He's hunted the buffalo, and there aren't many buffalo left around,
and it's it's implied that, well, it's it's said that, well,
I'm sure we'll talk about it. That he and Matt
had met each other a long time ago and it
didn't go very well for Matt, and he is going
to and it's implied that Murdoch is going to go
with his with his his pal there. They're going to
go into Indian Treaty territory to hunt buffalo, which is

(49:57):
they're not supposed to be doing. And Murdoch is unpleas
and he's kind of gross and he he he's he's
he's kind of a lot like that that jerk guy
from an episode like two or three who came into
town then Matt couldn't stop. He's sort of like him,
but more so. And he's he's like he's like basically
like if like like you you were like like he

(50:21):
he looks like he walked in from a different time.
If like if like gun smoke a set and say
that eighteen eighties, this is a guy from like the
eighteen fifties, or the eighteen sixties or something like that,
when Dog City had just gone up and and Matt says,
the town was filled with guys like this and it
was lawless and it was reckless, and they did whatever
they want. And he still believes he can do whatever

(50:42):
he wants, and Matt has to keep an eye on
him because if he goes into Treaty territory, Matt has
to bring him back, and that could be a problem
because Murdoch likes shooting everything. So I'll leave it at that.
That's the Hunter, all right.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Well, Dan, what did you think of this episode?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Well, it wasn't a favorite.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
It's not my favorite either.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
It's structured a little weirdly where it spends about like
eighteen or nineteen minutes setting everything up, and then the
climax happens very quickly, which is too bad, but which
happens everyone, So I prefer it it ended quickly, especially
with the Murdoch character, who I'll talk about in a moment,
rather than like, if this were an hour long, I
think it would have been too much for me. But

(51:31):
I'll tell you what I like about it is I
like the Matt backstory that we get. I like that
that we learned that ye before he was a law man,
like twenty years ago. I don't know if it was
twenty years ago or some time ago, like the last
time Murdoch was in town, before Dodge City had settled
down to what it is now, and Matt was a
marshall us marshall, you know, Murdoch and all his buddies

(51:55):
were there and they were going to scalp somebody, and
Matt stepped in, so they beat the crap up. Matt
left his body by the rivers where he would die
kind of thing. And so so Murdoch's always kind of
laughing at Matt because you know, like, oh, you got
you're the law now, but you don't mean nothing to me.
And even Miss Kitty is like, what the heck is
going on with that weird guy in there? And and

(52:17):
so I like the backstory. I like I for Matt.
I liked the backstory for Dodge City. I like the
concept that, like I said in a strange way when
I was explaining it, Yeah, if you think Dodge City
is the wild West, the wild, wild wild West, was
this place that Murdoch and then Lim did because this
was before anything had been settled and it was all craziness.

(52:40):
And so this is a guy who literally it's like
like he stepped in from a different time. It's like
he stepped through a like a doorway, a time doorway
or something that that, like he he was in the
eighteen forties and something he's in the eighteen eighties or
something weird like that. And he's just in a different time,
in a different space. And the tricky thing with him

(53:02):
is that two tricky things. One his beard. In the
previous episode, there was a moment where Andy picks up
a lantern on the floor of the barn and sets
it on like a bucket, And when he picks up
the lantern, there's clearly a cord stretching from the lantern

(53:23):
going across the set, and I thought, well, who cares
when people watch this originally back in nineteen fifty five,
it wouldn't have been on a huge set like I'm
watching it. It wouldn't have been an all, you know,
on a really nice looking DVD. No one would have
seen that cord. And just in the same way, when
I'm looking at Murdoch's beard throughout this whole time, and
I'm thinking I am gonna take some sort of solvent

(53:45):
and get this, get that ruin the spirit gum that's
keeping that beard stuck to your face, because it is
driving me up the wall. And it's just like, like
the whole time, I'm thinking, gosh, I wonder if that's
beard is like made of candy and he would eat
it at the end of the day or something, just
eat it right off your face. You know. It's just
his beard is so distracting to me. Every scene he's in,

(54:07):
his beard distracts me and distracts me. And he has
this laugh he does which I'm not going to do now,
but I took it down. He does it ten times
during the episode. Ten times during the episode he does
this really annoying laugh, and that, mixed with the beard,
just the character drove me up the wall. And and

(54:29):
by time he first encounters Matt in the saloon and
I've actually got a plane right here, which is about
seven minutes into the episode, I was already sick to
death of him, but I knew that we still had
almost twenty minutes left and it just gets worse, and
so I was really trying to focus on those moments
that he wasn't in, and there are quite a few
of them, and we learn a lot about Murdoch, we

(54:50):
learn a lot about Matt, we learn about the back history.
But every time he showed up, I wanted to either
one of two things. I either wish that I was
listening to the radio version so I didn't have to
look at that Beard, or I was actually going to
turn down the volume and just put subtitles on so
I didn't have to hear him when he laughed. But

(55:12):
I couldn't come to a happy happy medium on that,
So I just watched it. And it's weird because although,
like I said, I think if if like on a
show like this where there's so many episodes, even the
ones that I don't like, and I would say this
is bordering on I didn't really like this episode, even

(55:34):
this is an important episode because of the backstory it gives,
so you have to so if I were, say, writing
a book on the history of Dodge City and Gunsmoke,
this would be an important episode because we're getting a
lot of background on Matt. A lot of background on
the city. Isn't an episode I would recommend anyone watch,
not unless you like really like looking at fake Beard's

(55:56):
Do you know that scene in Monty Python's Life of
Brian where all the women are at the Stony and
they're all wearing fake beards. Imagine that, except we're meant
to take it seriously. That's what his fake beard is like.
And it's so distracting, and his laugh is so distracting.
And like I said, the episode is structured in such
a weird way because for the first twenty minutes there's
so much backstory and there's so much build up, and

(56:17):
there's so much information, and then it ends kind of
quickly and you're like, oh, okay, it's over all right, Well,
I guess we'll never see them again. And so it's
it's like, it's weirdly structured. And that guy was just annoying,
and and it wasn't It wasn't a favorite of mine.
I would I would say, of the first nine, this
might be my least favorite of them, unless, of course,

(56:40):
you're a fan of fake beards, then it might be
your favorite. I can't say, because didn't the guy like
who was dropping out of trees. Didn't he have a
big old fake beard too? I think, oh yeah, I
think he did. Yeah, yes, But that one, for some reason,
that one wasn't as egregious to me this one right off.
I think it's that laugh he does, because when you

(57:00):
see his face and he laughs through the fake beard,
it almost seems like blasphemy. But I don't know of what,
and I don't know of who. It seems like something
blasphemous is happening, but I can't explain why. So this
was not a favorite of mine, but for the back story,
it's worth watching.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Yeah, I think the story for the episode is fine.
I like the idea of that Jace Murdoch is someone
who's already defeated Matt Dillon previously, like you mentioned. But yeah,
Peter Whitney as Jace Murdoch, though, is brutal. Like this
might be a funny comparison, but his performance reminded me

(57:47):
so much of performances that Rob Zombie gets out of
his actors, where it's just he's constantly pushing everybody to
go up to eleven. And I mean, I mean, can
you can't. Can't you almost picture this character in House
of a Thousand Corpuses or the Devil's Rejects or something

(58:07):
like that.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
He could like like he just opened a door and
he'd just be behind there, just like sitting on there
telling a story about being from the Old West. And
who's that guy? I don't know, he's just he's just
in that room and he babbles with a big fake beard.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Yeah yeah, and yeah, the way he laughs and even
the way he delivers every line of dialogue I think
would fit perfectly and kind of Rob zombies like obnoxious,
over the top style.

Speaker 4 (58:33):
I could see that.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah, and you know, maybe even his costuming would work
well in The Devil's Rejects yea, But yeah, he completely
overpowers this episode. The laughing drove me insane. And I
did watch the episode twice and I really struggled through
it the second time. And you know, and I can

(58:56):
tolerate a certain level of this performance style, especially if
it's played for humor, something like the Texas Chancel Masater two,
which I think is very I mean, that's probably that's
got to be one of Rob Zombie's favorite movies. But
it works there because I think the humor is excellent

(59:18):
in that movie. But I do have my limits, and
this movie pushed me beyond those. Not this movie. What
did we this episode? And I actually did not listen
to the radio version, and I won't I'm assuming Jace

(59:39):
Murdoch is much more subtly performed, but I don't think
I'm gonna I can't spend any more time.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
I almost felt like someone told the actor that he
was going to be in a Charlie Chaplin silent film
from nineteen eighteen, and that no and would be able
to hear what he was saying and everything would be silent,
and that that's almost what it feels like to me,
like he wandered in from a from a silent film

(01:00:08):
from the teens or the early twenties or something like that.
That's kind of the performance he's giving, and it's it's
it's yeah, it's it's it's weird because like like there's
a scene where, uh, you know, where Matt goes to
the camp site where Jay where where? Yeah, w'ere Murdoch
and and the guy he's with and I forget the
the the the character's name, the Indian, the Indian Brave.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Uh yeah, Golden Calf, Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
Where he and Matt have a Matt and Golden Calf
have a have a chat and it's very low key
and it's very calm, and then at the very end
of it, you see Murdoch approach from the background, and
you could just feel like like, no one's overacting yet,
but you could just like feel It's like it's like
standing near a like a like a kettle when it's
about to boil, you know, and you're like, oh, that's

(01:00:55):
about to boil, and you can tell it's about to
get really loud and start, you know, stee screaming at you,
you know, and it's just like you're looking at it, going, oh,
it's about to happen. I actually got a plane right
here there is. He steps in between two trees and
you can just tell it's about to happen. So it's
it's tricky. Yeah, I mean, I wonder if anyone's kind
of I wonder if this sort of performance continues, If

(01:01:18):
these sort of performances continue throughout the show, I'd be interested,
Like they have a point where maybe they tone them
down or.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Or yeah, maybe when war when Warren starts like kind
of steps back from directing, maybe we get some more
subtle performances. Because Warren does, like he he likes for
characters to be you know, either distant and strange or
just way over the top.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
Yeah, because James Arnest never goes. He's always even when
he gets angry, he's always sort of at this sort
of like he's he's one level sort of above like
Mulder and Scully sort of you know, like if you yeah,
if you like. People used to say when they would
watch The X Files, like at that time period, they
would see David Dukoven and Gillian Anderson act they think,

(01:02:06):
what's wrong with them? Why are they so low key?
But we're used to that now, but back then when
they started it just it seemed a bit weird because
everyone else and shows like that would be a bit
more manic. Yeah, But James Arnest, he always keeps a
calm and he keeps it cool. And what he's next
to this guy with the frank beard, it's like he's
Brian Blessed, but like without the the fun that comes

(01:02:28):
to Brian Blessed. And I appreciate the fact that, like
I said, that, he's from another time and I like that.
I like, I love that concept, but I kind of
wish he'd done it differently because there's there's nothing about
him that's I know, he's meant to be kind of
He beat up Matt. He and his friends beat up

(01:02:48):
Matt oh, be careful of him. And he seems like
a dufist to me. Yeah, I know he's got the
gun and he can shoot and everything, but he doesn't
seem scary or anything to me. He just seems like
he seems like he seems like an actor. Over acting
is what he seems like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Yeah, oddly enough. Now this might be completely ridiculous, but
he's kind of like somewhere in between Yukon Cornelius and
the Abominable Snowman. Oh yes, he's like the perfect combination
of those two characters from the Is It Rudolph?

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would, I would do that, yep, definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
But yeah, but yeah, he's obviously uh yeah, a mountain man.
And and and Warren was just like, all right, you
go away for six months in the mountains, try to
grow a beard. If you can't, we've got one, and

(01:03:55):
just it is it a good beard?

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
Well no, just trust us, we got one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
We Yeah, but yeah, he's he's completely insane. Now, the
ending I think is decent. Like I like Matt running closer.
Yeah yeah, he's like running closer towards Murdoch each time,
uh Murdock. He shoots a rifle that has to be. Uh,

(01:04:20):
I guess only one cartridge can go in it, so
he has to reload after each shot. And yeah, and
I and I wish the Native American. Uh yeah, yeah,
Golden Calf, I kind of wish. Now, now, you and
I we we've done a good amount of fan fiction,
which we will the final episode. We will be we

(01:04:42):
will read our fan.

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
I just I just completed my second chef And yes,
I call it a sheaf of of of smoke and fiction.
That's what we call it in my house.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
I like it. But I wish you would have stabbed
Murdoc mid laugh and just his explanation, killing him being
I couldn't take the laughter anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
Oh, that would have been great.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Yeah, that would have been amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
Because that's I think. That's like my nightmare that I'm
gonna I'm gonna wind up in a world where I'm
in a sitcom and the laugh track is his laugh,
like a hundred times over. Uh you uh, it's something.
So yeah, everybody listening. If you if you haven't heard it,
listen to it. And here's the thing. If you love
his laugh, like I said, you'll hear it ten times

(01:05:28):
in the course of the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
So you'll you'll love this episode if you love his laugh, yeah,
if you love his.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
Laf and that beard. This is this is the world.
This is the one for you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
So yeah, I'm trying to think if I have any
other anything else to say? Is Chester in this episode?

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
He is? He is. He shows up when he's He's
kind of the bridge between the first two thirds of
the episode, which is lots of exposition and backstory, and
the Murdoch's gone into the end the Treaty territory where
Matt's asleep on the bench.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Oh that's right, okay, But I don't think he does
much much else. I don't think, yeah, he doesn't do
much here.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
I do. I do like the the concept that that
Murdoch did spend a lot of time with the Native Americans,
with with the Indians, and he he and he he
used to provide them with medicine which seems to be
not only like food, but like guns too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
They called him the long Arm, which I think is
the long arms what they referred to as guns.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
Yes, and and they just this thing like you know,
his at one time his medicine was really good, and
now he doesn't get on well with them. Because his
medicine isn't good anymore. And that's what that's what the
guy says when he when he stabs Murdoch in the end,
is his medicine wasn't good. And I kind of like that.
That's almost like there are like you said, like the

(01:06:55):
story itself isn't is it bad? It's just the accout
it's wrapped up in a right is a bit is
not is just is a bit tough to take and
and and but but there are moments like like I said, again,
I've said it eighteen times already, but the backstory and
like the stuff with his medicine just wasn't good. It's

(01:07:17):
just it's kind of these nice little moments that kind
of shine in an episode. And like and and the
ending too is great with Matt kind of like, Okay,
he can fire this far and let's see how long
it takes him to reload. So he he pops up
from behind a stone. The guy shoots at him. The
moment the bullet hits the rock, Matt takes off, running
towards another rock and then dives down when the next

(01:07:39):
gun shot goes off, and he's like, oh, and basically,
you know he's figuring Okay, I got that much time
that it takes him to reload, and so he looks
around kind of like going from stone to stone kind
of thing, rock to rock to hide behind. It's a
nicely it's a nicely done scene, which of course is
you know in the end, you know he gets we're
not get stamped in the back, so uh so that

(01:08:00):
but it is kind of a nicely thought out seeing
I almost kind of wish that that had been saved
for a scene maybe where Matt would actually get to
him and stop him, rather than the surprise of he
gets there because he's thinking about it and he's he
does such a good job with it. That's just to
have the guy stabbed in the back. It makes sense
when you get the little twist in the end of
who the Indian Brave was there and that doesn't make sense.

(01:08:24):
But but but you kind of wish that Matt thinking
like you're seeing him in like like I mentioned a
couple episodes ago where like Doc and Kitty were kind
of like talking rings around him in a conversation and
he ended up seeing like the dim bulb. Well right here,
you can see he's a smart guy. He's figuring out
the stuff as someone is shooting at him with a
super powerful rifle that that Murdoch was saying, like, I

(01:08:47):
shot shot an Indian, took his head right off kind
of thing. And and so, so it's like, you know,
this is not this is a strong gun. This is
the Big fifty. He's using the Big fifty to shoot
at him, and so and so Matt on the fly
is thinking, up, here's how I can get to him.
It's almost like a video game or something, but like
like instead of Donkey Kong throwing barrels, he's like, and

(01:09:10):
you have to figure out, Okay, now the barrel is
coming on, I'm gonna jump it. I can run up
my head and then I can jump, you know that
kind of thing. And I would have loved a big,
like drone overhead shot of him, like it was like
a giant pinball machine or something like him running from
rock to rock. But but yeah, I kind of almost
wish that Matt thinking this one through like this and

(01:09:30):
be like, hey, that's pretty cool. Matt had more at
anywhere Matt succeeded rather than someone else taking care of
the business. But I've complained so much about this episode already.
I hate to complain about something that I actually liked
about it. So I like that scene.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
So yeah, yeah, it has a couple of moments. But
but yeah, but if.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
I can't do his laugh, I got halfway through it
and stopped. I don't want to hurt people.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
I was imagining being on set when he when Murdoch's
lines are being delivered, because he's like shouting these lines. Yes,
and I mean, I guess the boom operator must have known, like, hey,
pull it back a little bit, please, like when uh,

(01:10:21):
after Matt Dillon says his lines, then you know, pull
it back because Peter Peter Whitney, you're I can't.

Speaker 4 (01:10:27):
Remember Peter Whitney. Yeah, play Murdoch.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Yeah yeah, when when he's about to speak, you have
to raise the mic pretty high.

Speaker 4 (01:10:39):
Yeah I could. I can see that. Yeah, that's a
I can see. Well, you know, I I took him. Well,
I guess, I you know, at the end of the day,
I guess if this this is this is the the
Mountain Man is interpreted by a man who's the middle
name is Marquis. So so that's that I think explains
a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
So yes, up, all right, well yeah, that's and that's
all I've got for for this one as well.

Speaker 4 (01:11:06):
Yeah, that's that's it. I got the general that General
star guy. He threw a little thread in Matt as
he was leaving. I thought, don't do that General store guy.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
I don't like that, and I like, I like sort
of the implication that, you know, what is he doing here?
What's it's the general store guy, right, Who's who's kind
of hired him to do this hunt? To bring in
the pelts and stuff, and and it's all I don't
know anything about no Indian treaty, territory, you little jerk.

(01:11:35):
No wonder you're not in the show anymore. Gosh wow.
But that's all I have.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
That's that's yeah, yeah me too, all right cool? Well,
uh well Dan, before we wrap up, can you tell
us where we can find you and eventually the Supertrain
on social media?

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Yes, yes, uh Facebook, I'm at it's eventually super Trained
eventually Supertrained dot blogspot dot com. Yes, I still have
a blog and it's a lot of fun. Well it's
It'll give you the links to Spotify and Apple podcasts
and SoundCloud where you can find all the episodes. And
I am on Blue Sky, but I keep forgetting what
my handle is on Blue Sky. By time we get

(01:12:16):
to the end of the first season discussions, i'll have
that for you. But that's where you can find me online, Facebook,
if acually Supertrained, dot blogs, dot com. We're on all
the good best podcast places and things, although we're not
on Amazon yet. Hopefully soon I can get us up
and run it on there. But yes, please listen, enjoy
and go on Amazon and look up when I say
read Read under Books or Daniel R. Budnick Beauty n

(01:12:38):
I K no c in there and you'll find my
volume one of a Doctor Who book.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
All right, cool? And I will in the episode description,
I'll include a link to Dan's to all of your books,
and I also include your link to your Blue Sky
as well. Oh yes, Oh and one thing a preview
for the next episode. So episode ten was written by

(01:13:04):
Sam Peckinpah.

Speaker 4 (01:13:05):
Oh my gosh. Oh that's exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
So I'm very excited, uh to check that out. And
this might I didn't double check this, but this might
actually be his first credit. Oh, I could be wrong,
you know what. Actually, just in case, because I I
don't want some smart person to hear this and and

(01:13:29):
be like why didn't this guy just just check. It's
so easy to check. You don't have to know things
anymore because uh, information is provided for you. Let me
see here, So I am gonna look. Okay, this up.

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
So I just want to say I hope everyone's doing
all right hanging around and joining the show, and I
hope you like and if you have if you have
any complaints or anything about what we've said about gun
smoke here today, you could write to be care of
your big fat Mama.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
So, yeah, it looks like this is the earliest one
because it's nineteen fifty five. Yeah, so I think this
it looks like it. I might do some more research
later when I'm not so, you know, when I don't
have so much anxiety. You're looking this up while while recording.

Speaker 4 (01:14:18):
Oh yeah, it is weird, Oh it is. It is
kind of weird on there. I think it is. I
think it is because the uh, the at the start,
I see like mister Adams and even stuff. But that's
nineteen fifty seven. I think that what might be Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Why huh, I don't know why, man IMDb is they're going.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
Under that's a little wonky. Yeah, I think you're probably
right as as always, you know you know where to
write to with complaints.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
Oh yes, if I'm wrong, please let me know. I
would love to be uh corrected.

Speaker 4 (01:14:50):
Yes, he adores it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
All right, Dan? Well, well yeah, thanks again. This was
This is a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good time. I can't wait. I
can't wait to do the next one with mister Peckinpak
joining the rights. He wrote a bunch of them, didn't he.
I want to say, like ten or twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Yeah, he wrote a decent amount, which I would look
it up, but since my IMDb skills are just not
what they used to be, I'm not going to. But yes,
he did write a handful for sure. Cool cool, All right, Well,
thank you so much of course. I hope you enjoyed

(01:15:30):
this episode. A huge thanks to Dan. It's always a
blast to talk about gun Smoke with him each month.
If you've seen the episodes we've covered in this what
did you think of them? And let me know what
some of your other favorite classic Western TV shows are.
You can reach meed Ya email at Tumbleweeds and TV
Cowboys at gmail dot com. You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram,
and x All the links are in the show Notes.

(01:15:52):
Next week, I have a new guest, and we've got
a Randolph Scott double feature. We're talking about writing Shotgun
and The Bounty Hunter, two of his collaborations with director
Andre to tak Until then, if you're looking for more
film related podcasts, please check out other shows on the
Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 6 (01:16:10):
I am Adam Lundy, co host of the Live by Film,
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(01:16:32):
sat down with some of the biggest players in the
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Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the
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