September 2, 2025 • 41 mins
YouTuber Nathan Jones joins me to discuss director Lucio Fulci's first spaghetti western, Massacre Time.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite productions podcast network.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You left to find a Podog Gold.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Welcome back to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys, a classic Western
film and TV podcast. My name is Hunter and this
week's episode, I'll be joined by YouTuber Nathan Jones, and
the movie we're talking about is Massacre Time, a spaghetti
western from nineteen sixty six directed by one of my
all time favorite filmmakers, Luccio Folci. Horror is another genre
that I absolutely love, and it's obviously what folks she
(00:47):
is known for, but he worked in many genres, including westerns,
and I'm sure we'll cover all of his westerns on
the podcast at some point, but we're starting with his
first and we're going to go ahead and get into
our conversation on Massacre Time. Nathan, thanks for coming on
the show. We were talking about a movie that I
know you're excited to get into, but first, can you
tell us about yourself and about your YouTube channel?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, well, thanks again for inviting me on this. It's
really fun to talk about a western that is is
an interesting one, but also just to be on the
channel and the podcast, and what I am about is
my name is Nathan Jones, and I have the channel
(01:34):
Film Journeys with Nathan Jones. I was like trying to
think I always have an intro.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, for a second, I thought you'd forgotten your channel name.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, I was going to be like, oh, I used
to be specifically Blue Raised with Nathan Jones, and as
of now I'm Film Journeys with Nathan Jones, and I've
been kind of focusing on my own journey, but also
at the same time other people in the community. You've
been on the channel, and that was a delight to
hear kind of what you had cooking, and obviously a
lot of things have come to fruition since then, So
(02:02):
congrats on that.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and yeah, I had a blast
being on your channel.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Now.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I think you know this, but I'm very nervous on camera,
so my heart was pounding the entire time during the
Film Journey episode. But I did enjoy myself. And I've
been enjoying your channel for I think several years at
this point, and I always enjoy seeing what you're picking
up on physical media, and I enjoy hearing you know
(02:31):
what you've been watching recently. I don't know if I'm
completely up to date. The last video I watched was
on some Indicator releases, and you talked about a movie
with Olivia de Havlin, The Snake Pit. I love The
Snake Pit. That movie's awesome.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Yeah, I really enjoyed that movie. That was a pleasant surprise.
I mean, that's a gorgeous looking restoration. Whatever they did
to that blu ray, it looks fantastic. But other than that,
you know, just the premise's health is pretty revolutionary for
the time it came out.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, oh, it's a great movie.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah. I kind of see the precursor to something like
I think I said something around the lines of One
Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, but like precursor.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, oh, absolutely yeah, Matt. For So, for tonight, we're
talking about a very different movie than The Snake Pit,
but one that I think is worthy of discussion. It's
Luccio Fulci's Massacre Time. But before we get into that,
I do think that we should get into your history
(03:36):
with Westerns one and then also I think we should
get into your history with Folcie as well. But let's
start with Westerns. Is it a genre you grew up
watching or something you got into more as you got.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Older, It's probably a little bit more on the older side.
I've been around in my entire life, just because my
father still watches westerns to this day. I mean I
still catch them watching TCM anytime. Mighten head over to
his house. But you know, it's it's been around. But
you know, I always kind of associated that with older
(04:09):
old men kind of thing. And ironically, you know, I
know that's a good majority or at least a good
percentage of a population of that, but it it transcends
a lot of things. And so as I've gotten older,
I've grown to appreciate the genre quite a bit. And
so yeah, last few years, I would say I've been
(04:29):
like checking off boxes for things that I really enjoy,
say something like the Grant, the Great Silence, or you know,
the Sergio Leone films, or I mean a lot of
the classic John Ford's and even like the renowned westerns.
So it's been yeah, a fun journey over like the
last I would say, five six years.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, so you definitely you tend to lean more spaghetti
western or do you or do you like like classic Hollywood?
You mentioned the renowned westerns, but are you more drawn
to spaghetti Westerns.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Yeah, I think it's weird because I feel like the
renowned westerns are kind of that perfect blend of both,
you know, like right in between that time period. So
I think there's something wholesome to that for me. But
I would say i'd probably lean more towards the spaghetti western.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Nice. Now, I know I don't always get into this
with a guest where I asked them what their history
is with a filmmaker, and like I've talked about John
Ford and Rabl Walsh, William may Wellman like many great directors.
But I feel like with Fulci, if you're into cult
movies in genre cinema, there's a point where you're introduced
to Fulci's movies, and when you are, I think you're
(05:42):
probably forever changed, like I know I was. And so
but if I remember correctly, you haven't always been a
huge horror movie fan, is that right?
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Yeah? I mean my horror journey kind of similar to
the Western and sense that I started liking it more
and more over the last five years or so. And
I was never really a fan. I was easily scared
growing up as a kid, and then eventually, you know,
I started watching I would say, increasingly more scary things,
(06:14):
so things like The Thing, the Exorcist, the Fly, and
then eventually I would watch stuff that really unnerves me,
like The Witch, which is one of my favorite movies
of all time. I even have a tattoo of from
The Witch. Stuff along those lines. And then of course
He's the modern or aesthetic is quite pleasing to me
(06:35):
because a lot of it's psychological. But yeah, I just
I started loving all that stuff, and eventually I did
get to Faulcy, which, like you said, it's an introduction,
and yeah, it's quite an intense one. And I would
I would say initially I was kind of anti Gore
for a long long time, but now I am. Now
(06:57):
I'm a big fan, and I don't know exactly what
switched in my mind, but it happened somehow.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah. So I So I first discovered ful Gie the
same way I discovered so many filmmakers and movies, and
it's through Tarantino. He had a deal with Miramax where
he presented some DVD releases of several movies, and the
label's name was Rolling Thunder Pictures, and he put out
a black exploitation movie called Detroit nine thousand. He put
(07:25):
out The Mighty pe Kingman, which is a Shaw Brothers movie. Yeah,
and I think he put out chun King Express, Sonatine
and Switchblade Sisters as well. But the other movie he
released was The Beyond, and I think by the time
it was released, I had already read about Fulgi, but
I know The Beyond was the first movie of his
that I saw, and I absolutely loved it, like it
(07:49):
blew me away, and so I began to seek out
his other movies, and I had many of his movies
on DVD, and this was at a time where I
was watching just so many Italian genre movies and like
from the seventies and early eighties, Italian horror in particular,
(08:09):
and I'm pretty sure Suspiria was my most watched movie
when I was in my twenties, and I think Don't
Torture or Duckling was also was up there as well.
And I still love Italian horror and to this day,
if I have three hours of free time, which is rare,
but when I do, my first thought is usually to
have a City of the Living Dead and The Beyond
(08:29):
double feature. And I still seek out Italian horror, but
oddly enough, I don't watch too many spaghetti westerns, and
I found that kind of the deeper that you dig
with spaghetti westerns just the worst they get. And I
do think there are some great ones. I love, you know,
Leoni and Corbucci, and there are other spaghetti westerns that
weren't directed by Sergio's that I like quite a bit
(08:52):
that I'm hoping to cover on the show someday. But yeah,
Italian movies, I could, I could talk all night about it,
genre cinema. I just absolutely love it. But I think
we do have to get into our main discussion. Yeah,
so okay, So I'm gonna mention some of the key
figures involved in the production and we'll get into our
thoughts on Massacre time. So the story and screenplay are
(09:17):
credited to Fernando de Leo, and that's a name that
I'm sure is familiar to fans, especially of Polizia's techies,
like he directed some of the most well known films
of that, like Italian crime subgenre like Caliber nine is
a big one and the Italian Connection The Big Boss.
And he also co wrote some other spaghetti westerns. I know,
he co wrote Corbucci's Navajo Joe and then one more
(09:40):
movie that I want to mention that he directed. It's
a movie called to Be Twenty, and I watched it
because Daniella Doria is in it, and she's in several
Folcy movies. She's actually she's the girl who vomits her
guts up and citing the Living Dead. Yeah, yeah, and
she only made she was only in nine movie and
so at some point I was trying to see all
(10:01):
of them, and to Be Twenty has one of the
most shocking endings I could possibly imagine. It's a very
unusual movie, but mostly for its ending. From what I remember,
it gets incredibly dark, so it's a movie you kind
of have to chase it with a Pixar movie or
(10:23):
something bright and cheery. Afterwards, it is really grim. But
the score is by Now I might butcher some of
these names, so forgive me, but I think it's Coriolano
Coriolano Gory and he's credited here as Lollo Gory, and
it was shot by Ricardo Ricardo Palatini, and he had
(10:43):
worked with Fulci previously on a comedy that Barbara Steele
was in called Imaniac, and then Palatini. He also worked
with Antonio Margariti a lot. He shot a couple of
his horror movies and some of his sci fi stuff,
and the editor was Ornello Mitchelli. Well, yeah, Ornello Mitchelli
will go with who worked with LT from his comedy
(11:04):
days all the way through his final Western actually, which
was Silver Saddle. All right, well, I think I'm I'm
gonna I think I'm done with the crew and we
can kind of get into the cast once we talk
about the movie. But I'm going to read, well, you know, actually,
I'm going to give you the option. Are you good
at summarizing a plot?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
I'm not the best at summarizing plot, so I'm gonna
have I'm gonna have you do it, even though it's
a pretty it's a pretty straightforward plot though, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, now I can't I can't do plot summary, So
I'm just gonna read from IMDb that's fair. A prospector
and his drunkard brother must fight against the insane and
statistic son of a wealthy rancher who has dispossessed them
of their family farm. All right, Nathan, so what did
you think of Massacre time?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
You know, it's an interesting movie because obviously, you know,
we you know, talked a little bit about Fulci and
the works that we both I feel like both of
us came across him backwards from this movie. Uh So
it's it's interesting to think of him doing a studio movie.
So so obviously there's the director appeal, but also there's
(12:11):
the actor appeal, which is there's quite a bit of
people through, you know, in this that kind of puts
it over the top in terms of I mean a
lot of people would recognize these names, things like, you know,
people like Franko Niro and George Hilton, and I mean
even you know Cassel Noovo, you know from you know,
(12:32):
the a lot of his French films that he's in,
but also just World Cinema. But yeah, AnyWho, Yeah, it
was I really enjoyed the cast and the name alone
I think carried me to the movie. But obviously watching it,
I feel like there's flourishes of something great there that
(12:53):
you know, has has some sloppiness to it, but at
the same time is quite an enjoyable ride of revenge
and it culminates into something really really fun, I think,
and I really enjoy a lot of the action sequences
that occur towards that you know, climax quite a bit,
and the music into it as well. I can just
go on. But man, what incredible score. Very memorable kind
(13:19):
of score. But you know, all together this movie. Surprisingly,
the more and more I think about it, I kind
of really like it. Actually, It's one that I feel
like I didn't give enough credit for. I've seen it
a few times now, and on this past revisit, I've
enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, I am right there with you, Like I think
this is my second or third time seeing it, and
I originally I saw it for the first time after
I had already seen Four of The Apocalypse, which is
a later full chee spaghetti western.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, something to see that.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah, And so I really enjoyed for The Apocalypse when
I first saw it, And I actually think I didn't
enjoy Masacre time on a first watch because I wanted
something closer to the Fulgi aesthetic that I was so
drawn to, and four of the Apocalypse I remember having
more of his kind of horror atmosphere and aesthetic. And
(14:20):
it makes sense because that movie came out at a
time where he had already made like a lizard and
a woman's skin and don't torture a duckling. So he
was already kind of pushing the envelope. But this time around,
I feel like I was able to watch it and
remove his later work from my mind and just judge
it as, yeah, what it is that spaghetti western from
sixty six, right, And my experience this time around was
(14:43):
so much better. Like I really enjoyed rewatching Mascer time.
And there's a couple things that are a little weird
to me about it, mostly how passive Franco Nero's character
is in some scenes strike me as being really odd.
But but there's a lot to enjoy and appreciate in this movie,
(15:05):
and I think a couple of the performances are really strong.
I thought, George Hilton, this is probably the most I've
enjoyed him in a movie.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
I would agree. I think this is his time to shine.
Like you know you were saying, Nero in particular kind
of being bland in some instances. I know that he
had made Jango. I think prior to this, I think
I remember him saying that he had anybody had n't
come out yet, So I feel like he had maybe
drawn sixty six out a little bit longer than he wanted,
(15:33):
you know, like that year of what he right? Yeah,
but George Hilton was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Yeah. And then I think the other key performance is
definitely Nino Castle Nuwave Nuavo. Is that he say it?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
I think it's okay, Yeah, we'll go with.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Nino Castle Nuavo. I think I had only seen him.
I've seen him in two movies, Roco and his Brothers
and The The Umbrellas of Shareboard. And I think like
the physicality of his performance in Masctime is pretty awesome,
Like he does this weird head tilt kind of throughout
the movie. His eyes are sometimes only like thirty percent open,
(16:12):
and it's it's a really odd choice, but I think
it works perfectly for his role. And I think the movie,
I think it looks really nice. And like you, I
think the score is pretty awesome and definitely memorable. I
love the main theme, which is sung by Sergio Indrigo
and the lyrics are actually by Luccio Fulci.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Oh, that's fantastic. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah. And I and with the score, I really like
how they use different melodies, like from the theme song
like throughout the movie and the score. I think that
works really well. And I think we should talk a
little more about Franco Nero in this because, like I said,
I do think he's an odd hero. Like there's a
handful of times where it seems like he's waiting for
(16:57):
the right time to make a move and you're kind
of like, is this guy a hero or what? And
and he's not incompetent, like he's not like Jack Burton
from Big Trouble in Little China, like he's just very patient,
I guess. But what did you think of his of
his character?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yeah, I mean it was interesting. You know, obviously he's
kind of set as the main character coming back and
kind of being that hardened brother that you know, saw
the world onlike his other brother. But at the same time,
it doesn't come across in the energy department, I think.
But there are moments, like he said, it's kind of
(17:35):
like you have to be a little patient for him
to jump into action, which you know, with what's whatever
is going on around him is much more pertinent and
you know, chaotic, and he doesn't seem to react in
the same way that whatever the scene is in some instances.
But overall though, I mean, obviously it's Franko Niro. He
acts a lot with his eyes and his mannerisms, and yeah,
(17:59):
so he's obviously a stellar performer. And I mean I
kind of love the duo of him and George Hilton
in particular. I mean that's just a fun, you know,
one two punch, I feel like, and I think that
dynamic is what is what makes it better, you know,
even if George Hilton, I think steals it a little bit.
I think frank Bneiro and George Hilton together make it,
(18:20):
you know that for what it is, I suppose that
enjoyable enjoyability of the dynamic.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, I feel like once they team up, like the
action really picks up and it gets up, it gets
really fun. And I like the first action scene a lot,
like where Hilton is on the side of his horse
like shooting it at people, Like I think that that's
a pretty fun scene and a fun I guess I
don't know if I guess you could call that a stunt.
(18:48):
But I love the scene where Nero thinks Hilton has
uh actually killed his his his real dad and they
fight in that weird little shack. I don't really know
what that location is. But then Hilton empties out his
six shooter, and you see that he wasn't the one
who killed him. And then the next shot, Nero pulls
(19:09):
his gun and you think he might be shooting Hilton,
but then you see like someone approaching on horseback, like
through like an opening in the shack, and and and
Nero was shooting at this other guy who was coming
after them. I love the way that that moment played out.
And yeah, and like and like you said, their dynamic,
I just think is is really entertaining. And and yeah,
(19:34):
and we've kind I've kind of described Nero as being passive.
But but when when the going gets really rough, he
he he does, he does get involved. And I do
feel like that is when the movie is at its best,
and which I do think is something you expect from Fulci.
Although as far as I know, this is really his
first attempt at on screen like violence, unless one of
(19:58):
his comedies has some like comical violence, which they might.
I've never seen any of his releases that came out
before this movie, have you, by any chance?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I don't believe so. I mean, I think all the
movies I have are you know, in the eighties or
the seventies. For the most part, but you know, I
would love to kind of go back in time and
kind of seeing that trajectory. I actually really like the
special features on here because you actually do if you know,
if anyone gets this particular film, it's in a arrow
(20:31):
box set Vengeance Trails, and the blu ray of it
is from Aero video, and it actually has both George
Hilton and Franco Niro talking about their time on the film,
and pretty recently too, because I believe they're still both alive.
But it was pretty enlightening to kind of hear them
(20:54):
talk about Lucio Fulci in the like sense where they
you saw him before, where he became big, you know,
And yeah, it was interesting hearing their thoughts on like
he was kind of George Hilton didn't like him at all,
He's kind of an asshole, and then you know, Franconniro's like,
I see the genius in him, even if he's like
(21:15):
a kind of stoic and you know, arrogant and maybe
a little impatient with stuff. But it was it was
fascinating hearing that. So I like that behind the scenes
kind of aspect of it, and then obviously seeing where
he went further in this, so yeah, it's a pretty
it's pretty enlightening bonus feature, I think for a weird
(21:37):
film that is actually surprisingly, you know, kind of middle
of the road. You know, it's not nothing, nothing too spectacular,
but I feel like out of the Westerns, it's like
quite enjoyable one, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah. Now I did not get to listen to the
interviews on the disc I did watch. I did listen
to the commentary though, which I which I thought was
was very good. But kind of back to this being
like Fulci's kind of first foray into violence, there are
some scene, there are some moments that I think are
(22:13):
kind of recognizable in later Fulci movies, especially the way
Fulci will just let a violent scene just play out
as long as it can possibly go absolutely like this,
the scene where he lets people just uh just pummel
George Hilton's character. It goes on for so long before
(22:36):
Franco Nero does anything about it, and that's definitely like,
I mean, this is not an equal comparison really, but
it's just something that you see Folchi do, you know,
throughout his career, Like I mean, Zombie.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah, I just watched the.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Splinter going into the eye takes. It feels like forever.
But but I do think it's like ending these moments
of violence. I do think is one of his trademarks
for sure.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, his he hand nye for it.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
You could see it developing, Yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah. And
another thing, a little bit more into George Hilton's character.
So I don't I don't really recall seeing him play
this type of role before and and and like he's
I think he's so great in the action scenes. I
usually associate him with Jallo, especially Sergio Martine's movies. Like
I know, he's in All the Colors of the Dark,
(23:31):
which is not really I don't know if that's really
a Jallo, but he's in the Strange Vice of Miss Ward,
and I love that movie. I think that's a great Jallo.
But here, I do think he's doing something different from
what I've seen previously. And I and I really think
this character was inspired by Dean Martin's character in Rio Bravo.
(23:52):
And I think they mentioned that in in the uh
in the commentary as well. But Hilton, you know, he
plays kind of a drunken, drunken hero basically in this.
But yeah, but what did you think I mean we've
already touched it a little bit, but yeah, what did
you think of his character and kind of his arc
from drunk to this kind of unstoppable action hero.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
I mean, I quite enjoyed it. I mean, I will
admit that I've only seen a few of the jallo's
that he's been in, and so there's definitely a lot
of stuff that I want to see with him in.
But at the same time, I liked his serious acting.
I suppose, you know, I feel like just kind of
going back to that special feature of him reminiscing and
(24:33):
I can kind of see it, you know, having watched
it a second time now. I actually watched the English
dub just to watch it in an interesting way, because
there's there's two dubs to this, but which I think
the Italian is probably the ideal one to watch. But regardless,
(24:54):
it was interesting hearing him talk about how much he
loves putting his energy into this character and have having
something different from what he had been doing prior and
having that physicality to it. I think that's what made
it so enchanting to him, I think, and memorable.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, and they give him really unusual, like strange character
moments like there's a scene where he I don't know
if does he he like hypnotizes a chicken or something like.
There's just some weird, really quirky, kind of offbeat moments
with him. But I think I think, like I like
we've said, I think it's like possibly his best work,
(25:36):
at least that from what I've seen. I think that
he's just tremendous in this. But yeah, I think the
next I kind of want to get into the direction.
I think that Folchi's direction in general, I think is
really good. Yeah. In the commentary track, it's by c
Courtney Joyner and Henry Park. And Henry Park he was
actually a guest on my podcast recently and he's great.
(25:59):
But they they mentioned that Fulci referenced Raoul Walsh and
like really classical Hollywood filmmakers when it came to his
approach in making this movie. And I don't know if
I would have thought that just based on watching it
on my own, but once they mentioned it, I felt
like I started to see that as well, Like especially
(26:22):
in the bull whip scene with Franco Niro and Nino
Castle Nuevo, who I'm going to refer to them by
their character names, moving forward that might just be easier
Tom and Junior. The way that scene is choreographed and
shot is almost like Vincent Minnelli esque, like especially the
way the camera moves with the actors. It tries to
(26:44):
kind of keep them in the same part of the
frame even though there's a lot of movement like within
the frame. And that bit of direction like really stood
out to me. But were there any other kind of
standout moments or like or scenes that were like more memorable,
more memorable because of the way Fulty executes them.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
I mean, the opening sequences kind of sets the tone
for kind of the you know, the foray into the
violence because you see, you see something a little bit
more vicious with you know, with running water and blood
and yeah, chase sequence. I really like that sequence. And
then of course I think, you know, not to you
(27:26):
know talk, I guess after the whipping scene, which I
now I'm thinking about Raoul wash Walsh films, I'm trying
to think about like The Thief of Baghdad and things
along those lines. But I would say the final scene
as well. I mean, the climax. It goes on for
a bit, but at the same time it is really
(27:48):
worth it. Because the sequences of you know, men kind
of tripping upstairs, you know, down by themselves did that
kind of chaotic energy. But also just there was some
pretty tasteful cinematography going on at the very end with
you know, all that action. I suppose.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, oh, definitely, yeah. The action I think is like
really well shot and edited and pretty exciting. Now, one
thing now, and we don't I don't necessarily want to
dwell on this, but I think it has to be
brought up that I do think this movie is an
influence on Django Unchained. Like, I'm sure this isn't the
(28:29):
only movie that has dogs like viciously kill a man,
but I definitely thought about Jango Unchained when I was
watching it because there's a similar scene. It doesn't have
the extended chase that this movie has, but I definitely
was reminded of it. And then even using well, like
(28:51):
the whip scene, there's kind of like there's a scene
in Jango Unchained. I don't know if both characters have
a whip, but there's definitely a scene where maybe I
can't remember if if Jamie Fox is being whipped and
then he takes the whip and starts whipping the other person.
I can't remember exactly how it plays out, but I
did feel like this movie was an influence on Jango Unchained.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Did you feel that absolutely? I mean, I think Junior
is a really good representation of what Leo is. I
think that would be an interesting comparison.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yes, I can see that for sure. Absolutely, the way
that Junior delights in violence, and he seems to kind
of that little kind of tick where where his head
tilts and his eyes are like thirty percent open. It
(29:43):
seems more exaggerated during kind of these violent scenes, which
I thought was I don't know if that's how full
she directed him to be or if that was just
the actor's choice, but I think it works really really well.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, I think it's uh, it's very expressive. I wonder
if I don't know, I mean, I'm just hypothesizing, but
I'm kind of wondering about the language Barrier. I didn't
know if there was any on the set. Obviously there's
you know, George Hilton's Uruguayan, but obviously he speaks Italian. Obviously,
(30:21):
Franco Niro is Italian, and of course Nino I believe
is French. And Okay, I think but he actually could
be Italian. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I
might have that backwards because I think he was the
Italian star in the Umbrellas film. So I don't know
(30:42):
if that hypothesis is real. I think that's not real.
I'm taking it all back. It's all coming superuition.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Yeah, I didn't look up where he was from. But yeah,
and Umbrellas of Scherbourg I haven't seen in a really
long time. I barely remember that movie. But rock Go
and his Brothers I saw somewhat recently, and I can't
say I remember him in it very well. But that
is an Italian movie, so so yeah, and like European actors,
(31:14):
I feel like there's a better chance you'll find ones
that speak multiple languages absolutely so so so maybe he's
someone who speaks French and Italian. But but yeah, you
do have to wonder how how that can affect a performance,
(31:36):
like if a director can't communicate well with an actor.
But here I think, you know, all of these actors
are are are are pretty good. And now another thing
that they another thing they mentioned in the in the commentary,
or that they talked about in the commentary, is that
fulci gets a lot of coverage, and the scene where
the dogs are chasing the victim, there's so many and
(32:01):
I feel like it all cuts together really nicely. And
now there there is one thing that I do think
is kind of funny with this opening scene though. There's
the one dog who doesn't He doesn't play along with
the rest of the pack. Did you notice that one
dog that just runs in the opposite direction?
Speaker 4 (32:17):
That's that's that'll be fun to watch on rewatch.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah, that dog might be the most likable character in
the movie.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Actually, But you know what, I don't want to go
towards this violence. Maybe just be a dog, Yeah, just
be a dog.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
But yeah, the opening, Yeah, it definitely really grabs you
and is just a really awesome way to start off
a movie. Now I'm trying to think if I have
kind of anything else to get into. I don't know,
do you do you have any kind of final thoughts
on this one? Is there anything we didn't we didn't
(32:51):
touch on yet?
Speaker 4 (32:52):
No, but I think, you know, kind of going back
to what we had mentioned at the top, I actually
think this is a movie, you know, for anyone who's
listening to this, you know, I would say give it
some time and watch it multiple times to I think,
appreciate this movie because you might like westerns and this
(33:13):
might already be your cup of tea, but you know,
I think this is something that you know, if you know,
you have a history with Faulcy or any of the
cast or crew or any of that. I think it's
an interesting kind of thought to kind of tackle this
a movie multiple times and kind of see it for
(33:33):
what it is. Because I liked what you had said
about you know, having watched it and kind of just
enjoying it as it is, and I think that is
probably the best way to watch this movie. And you know,
it's just one of those fun, memorable westerns that feels
right on the edge of potentially being, you know, more
violent than it could be.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that this is a movie.
I mean, for me, it like required rewatches to become
for me to enjoy it as much as I do now,
because I think, like with the name fulci like you
(34:18):
carry if you're a fan of his already, you carry
his entire filmography, you know, into what you're watching, like
you kind of take all of that into consideration. And obviously,
because this is so much earlier, and he hadn't been
doing I mean in sixty six, no movies were doing
what Fulci was doing later, right, But yeah, but if
(34:42):
you can definitely separate that and just appreciate, like how
well crafted this is, because I do think it's just
a really well made It's not like it's not a
perfect movie, like I do think like Franco Niro's character is.
(35:03):
I actually think on a first time watch, he's kind
of he's a little bit frustrating because you almost because
you kind of want to see him be more of
a hero. And then when he a either lets George
Hilton do all of the like difficult work or be
(35:23):
if he's just not getting involved, you're kind of like, well,
why isn't this movie just about George Hilton? Why don't
they just get him out of here? But I think
on a rewatch it's, uh, I don't know, for some reason,
it's just more forgivable on a rewatch, And I can't
really put my finger on why. But I mean maybe
(35:44):
part of it is because you've seen it before and
so you don't have any expectations going into it that
Franco Niro, who of course is Jango and played Jango
the same year. You don't you bring those expectations with
you anymore and you just kind of accept what he is.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yeah, I definitely can see that being a factor. And yeah,
I agree that's not necessarily a perfect film, especially with
that performance. But you know, overall, I would say that
I really like how I think Fulci kind of developed
as a filmmaker with this movie. I could easily see
(36:24):
that having just watched Zombie before doing this podcast, and
I had just recently rewatched The Beyond as well, so
I've kind of been on a Fulcie kick lately. But
it's interesting to think about, you know, this movie and
what he would make after the fact, and the fact
that he actually was you know, patient with the shots
(36:45):
or you know, had had very interesting angles and you
know energy that he had to the way that he
framed something. That that's that always you know, it makes
it curious to you know, one to rewatch.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah. Absolutely, all right, Well, well Nathan, where can people
follow you on social media? And why don't you tell
us what kind of what your most recent YouTube videos
have have been on.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Yeah, so everyone can find me At Film Journeys with
Nathan Jones, I talk about a lot of movies that
I usually have been picking up lately, but also at
the same time kind of doing a little bit more
audience engagement. I actually invented this little film Journey wheel,
which is this fun little contraption of this, like think
of a prize wheel, and I magnate or I guess
(37:40):
I put magnets on some laminated paper of different like
boutique labels like Criterion, Era Video, and cut them out
and put them on these magnets, and I spin the wheel,
and right now the prompt is kind of choosing these
unwatched films in my collection, and I've been doing that.
The most recent one was Radiance, and now I'm talking
(38:03):
about Criterion. I'm watching Criterion movies right now on top
of my full G films. But I'm gonna be doing
more interactions because everyone who's watching those these movies, or
at least my videos are are picking the films that
I'm watching. I should have said that at the beginning.
So anyhow, it's been a lot of fun. And you know,
(38:27):
I've done a lot of things on the channel, and
like you know, I said earlier, you've been on the
channel with film journeys. I also do things along those lines,
so roundabout way, I like talking about movies with other
people and my you know, seeing how my own journey goes.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
All right, very cool, But I did leave. I am
going to put a link to your social media anti
your YouTube channel in the show notes, so definitely everyone
go check out his channel and give him a follow.
And also I'll include a link to the film Journeys
episode that I was on as well. But yeah, but Nathan,
thanks again for coming on. This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yeah, I appreciate it, and thanks for letting me ramble
a little bit and talk about I unwatched Jim. I
think for people who should check out a Fulci film
that they don't expect from foul Gi.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yes, absolutely, And I will say now, you and I
were originally going to do talk about all four of
the movies in this arrow video box set, the what's
it called again, Vengeance Valley, Vengeance Trails, Vengeance Trails. I
like Vengeance Valley actually, but but yeah, Vengeance Trails, and
eventually we might make our way through the set.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, I think I think that that.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I think that would be really fun to do. There's
three other movies and a couple other really well known.
I feel like Italian kind of genre filmmakers. Antonio Margredi
directed And God and God said to Kine, is that
what it's called? Yeah, and God said to Kine. Yet
we stars Klaus Kinski and then also one of my
(40:00):
favorite Italian directors, Massimo di Lamano, did one of the
movies as well, and he did What Have You Done
to a Launch, which is like one of my favorite
movies of all time. I love that movie. So yeah, yeah,
So Nathan will be back to talk about more spaghetti
westerns in the future for sure.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Absolutely, I'd be down for it. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
I hope you enjoyed this episode. I could talk about
Fulci and Italian genre cinema all day, and Nathan will
definitely be back in the future to talk about spaghetti
westerns again. What are your thoughts on this week's episode
and what did you think of Massacre time? You can
let me know by emailing me or messaging me on Twitter, Instagram,
or Facebook. All the links where you can reach me
are in the show notes. I'll be back in two
weeks with a new guest, and we've got a Charles
(40:47):
Bronson double feature. We're talking about Red Sun and the
White Buffalo. Until then, If you're looking for more film
related podcasts, please check out other shows on the Someone's
Favorite Productions Podcast Network. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Hello, this is Chris Haskell from They Live by Film.
For those that don't know us, Adam Zach and I
we built the podcast over the last two years. That's
a combination of film discussion from three very different perspectives,
as well as industry interviews with the leaders in Boutique,
Blu Ray, and four K community. We started with dev Crocodile,
but over time we've been lucky enough to speak with
(41:21):
Aero Video, Severn, Manda Macabre, Vinegar Syndrome, Radiant Syndicator, most
of the OCN partner labels. It's been a blast. You
can find us wherever you podcast and also actually recently
as part of Someone's Favorite Production Podcast Network. We hope
to see you online.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the
Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network, please select the link in
the description
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite productions podcast network.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You left to find a Podog Gold.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Welcome back to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys, a classic Western
film and TV podcast. My name is Hunter and this
week's episode, I'll be joined by YouTuber Nathan Jones, and
the movie we're talking about is Massacre Time, a spaghetti
western from nineteen sixty six directed by one of my
all time favorite filmmakers, Luccio Folci. Horror is another genre
that I absolutely love, and it's obviously what folks she
(00:47):
is known for, but he worked in many genres, including westerns,
and I'm sure we'll cover all of his westerns on
the podcast at some point, but we're starting with his
first and we're going to go ahead and get into
our conversation on Massacre Time. Nathan, thanks for coming on
the show. We were talking about a movie that I
know you're excited to get into, but first, can you
tell us about yourself and about your YouTube channel?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, well, thanks again for inviting me on this. It's
really fun to talk about a western that is is
an interesting one, but also just to be on the
channel and the podcast, and what I am about is
my name is Nathan Jones, and I have the channel
(01:34):
Film Journeys with Nathan Jones. I was like trying to
think I always have an intro.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, for a second, I thought you'd forgotten your channel name.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, I was going to be like, oh, I used
to be specifically Blue Raised with Nathan Jones, and as
of now I'm Film Journeys with Nathan Jones, and I've
been kind of focusing on my own journey, but also
at the same time other people in the community. You've
been on the channel, and that was a delight to
hear kind of what you had cooking, and obviously a
lot of things have come to fruition since then, So
(02:02):
congrats on that.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and yeah, I had a blast
being on your channel.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Now.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I think you know this, but I'm very nervous on camera,
so my heart was pounding the entire time during the
Film Journey episode. But I did enjoy myself. And I've
been enjoying your channel for I think several years at
this point, and I always enjoy seeing what you're picking
up on physical media, and I enjoy hearing you know
(02:31):
what you've been watching recently. I don't know if I'm
completely up to date. The last video I watched was
on some Indicator releases, and you talked about a movie
with Olivia de Havlin, The Snake Pit. I love The
Snake Pit. That movie's awesome.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Yeah, I really enjoyed that movie. That was a pleasant surprise.
I mean, that's a gorgeous looking restoration. Whatever they did
to that blu ray, it looks fantastic. But other than that,
you know, just the premise's health is pretty revolutionary for
the time it came out.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, oh, it's a great movie.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Yeah. I kind of see the precursor to something like
I think I said something around the lines of One
Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, but like precursor.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, oh, absolutely yeah, Matt. For So, for tonight, we're
talking about a very different movie than The Snake Pit,
but one that I think is worthy of discussion. It's
Luccio Fulci's Massacre Time. But before we get into that,
I do think that we should get into your history
(03:36):
with Westerns one and then also I think we should
get into your history with Folcie as well. But let's
start with Westerns. Is it a genre you grew up
watching or something you got into more as you got.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Older, It's probably a little bit more on the older side.
I've been around in my entire life, just because my
father still watches westerns to this day. I mean I
still catch them watching TCM anytime. Mighten head over to
his house. But you know, it's it's been around. But
you know, I always kind of associated that with older
(04:09):
old men kind of thing. And ironically, you know, I
know that's a good majority or at least a good
percentage of a population of that, but it it transcends
a lot of things. And so as I've gotten older,
I've grown to appreciate the genre quite a bit. And
so yeah, last few years, I would say I've been
(04:29):
like checking off boxes for things that I really enjoy,
say something like the Grant, the Great Silence, or you know,
the Sergio Leone films, or I mean a lot of
the classic John Ford's and even like the renowned westerns.
So it's been yeah, a fun journey over like the
last I would say, five six years.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, so you definitely you tend to lean more spaghetti
western or do you or do you like like classic Hollywood?
You mentioned the renowned westerns, but are you more drawn
to spaghetti Westerns.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Yeah, I think it's weird because I feel like the
renowned westerns are kind of that perfect blend of both,
you know, like right in between that time period. So
I think there's something wholesome to that for me. But
I would say i'd probably lean more towards the spaghetti western.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Nice. Now, I know I don't always get into this
with a guest where I asked them what their history
is with a filmmaker, and like I've talked about John
Ford and Rabl Walsh, William may Wellman like many great directors.
But I feel like with Fulci, if you're into cult
movies in genre cinema, there's a point where you're introduced
to Fulci's movies, and when you are, I think you're
(05:42):
probably forever changed, like I know I was. And so
but if I remember correctly, you haven't always been a
huge horror movie fan, is that right?
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Yeah? I mean my horror journey kind of similar to
the Western and sense that I started liking it more
and more over the last five years or so. And
I was never really a fan. I was easily scared
growing up as a kid, and then eventually, you know,
I started watching I would say, increasingly more scary things,
(06:14):
so things like The Thing, the Exorcist, the Fly, and
then eventually I would watch stuff that really unnerves me,
like The Witch, which is one of my favorite movies
of all time. I even have a tattoo of from
The Witch. Stuff along those lines. And then of course
He's the modern or aesthetic is quite pleasing to me
(06:35):
because a lot of it's psychological. But yeah, I just
I started loving all that stuff, and eventually I did
get to Faulcy, which, like you said, it's an introduction,
and yeah, it's quite an intense one. And I would
I would say initially I was kind of anti Gore
for a long long time, but now I am. Now
(06:57):
I'm a big fan, and I don't know exactly what
switched in my mind, but it happened somehow.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah. So I So I first discovered ful Gie the
same way I discovered so many filmmakers and movies, and
it's through Tarantino. He had a deal with Miramax where
he presented some DVD releases of several movies, and the
label's name was Rolling Thunder Pictures, and he put out
a black exploitation movie called Detroit nine thousand. He put
(07:25):
out The Mighty pe Kingman, which is a Shaw Brothers movie. Yeah,
and I think he put out chun King Express, Sonatine
and Switchblade Sisters as well. But the other movie he
released was The Beyond, and I think by the time
it was released, I had already read about Fulgi, but
I know The Beyond was the first movie of his
that I saw, and I absolutely loved it, like it
(07:49):
blew me away, and so I began to seek out
his other movies, and I had many of his movies
on DVD, and this was at a time where I
was watching just so many Italian genre movies and like
from the seventies and early eighties, Italian horror in particular,
(08:09):
and I'm pretty sure Suspiria was my most watched movie
when I was in my twenties, and I think Don't
Torture or Duckling was also was up there as well.
And I still love Italian horror and to this day,
if I have three hours of free time, which is rare,
but when I do, my first thought is usually to
have a City of the Living Dead and The Beyond
(08:29):
double feature. And I still seek out Italian horror, but
oddly enough, I don't watch too many spaghetti westerns, and
I found that kind of the deeper that you dig
with spaghetti westerns just the worst they get. And I
do think there are some great ones. I love, you know,
Leoni and Corbucci, and there are other spaghetti westerns that
weren't directed by Sergio's that I like quite a bit
(08:52):
that I'm hoping to cover on the show someday. But yeah,
Italian movies, I could, I could talk all night about it,
genre cinema. I just absolutely love it. But I think
we do have to get into our main discussion. Yeah,
so okay, So I'm gonna mention some of the key
figures involved in the production and we'll get into our
thoughts on Massacre time. So the story and screenplay are
(09:17):
credited to Fernando de Leo, and that's a name that
I'm sure is familiar to fans, especially of Polizia's techies,
like he directed some of the most well known films
of that, like Italian crime subgenre like Caliber nine is
a big one and the Italian Connection The Big Boss.
And he also co wrote some other spaghetti westerns. I know,
he co wrote Corbucci's Navajo Joe and then one more
(09:40):
movie that I want to mention that he directed. It's
a movie called to Be Twenty, and I watched it
because Daniella Doria is in it, and she's in several
Folcy movies. She's actually she's the girl who vomits her
guts up and citing the Living Dead. Yeah, yeah, and
she only made she was only in nine movie and
so at some point I was trying to see all
(10:01):
of them, and to Be Twenty has one of the
most shocking endings I could possibly imagine. It's a very
unusual movie, but mostly for its ending. From what I remember,
it gets incredibly dark, so it's a movie you kind
of have to chase it with a Pixar movie or
(10:23):
something bright and cheery. Afterwards, it is really grim. But
the score is by Now I might butcher some of
these names, so forgive me, but I think it's Coriolano
Coriolano Gory and he's credited here as Lollo Gory, and
it was shot by Ricardo Ricardo Palatini, and he had
(10:43):
worked with Fulci previously on a comedy that Barbara Steele
was in called Imaniac, and then Palatini. He also worked
with Antonio Margariti a lot. He shot a couple of
his horror movies and some of his sci fi stuff,
and the editor was Ornello Mitchelli. Well, yeah, Ornello Mitchelli
will go with who worked with LT from his comedy
(11:04):
days all the way through his final Western actually, which
was Silver Saddle. All right, well, I think I'm I'm
gonna I think I'm done with the crew and we
can kind of get into the cast once we talk
about the movie. But I'm going to read, well, you know, actually,
I'm going to give you the option. Are you good
at summarizing a plot?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
I'm not the best at summarizing plot, so I'm gonna
have I'm gonna have you do it, even though it's
a pretty it's a pretty straightforward plot though, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, now I can't I can't do plot summary, So
I'm just gonna read from IMDb that's fair. A prospector
and his drunkard brother must fight against the insane and
statistic son of a wealthy rancher who has dispossessed them
of their family farm. All right, Nathan, so what did
you think of Massacre time?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
You know, it's an interesting movie because obviously, you know,
we you know, talked a little bit about Fulci and
the works that we both I feel like both of
us came across him backwards from this movie. Uh So
it's it's interesting to think of him doing a studio movie.
So so obviously there's the director appeal, but also there's
(12:11):
the actor appeal, which is there's quite a bit of
people through, you know, in this that kind of puts
it over the top in terms of I mean a
lot of people would recognize these names, things like, you know,
people like Franko Niro and George Hilton, and I mean
even you know Cassel Noovo, you know from you know,
(12:32):
the a lot of his French films that he's in,
but also just World Cinema. But yeah, AnyWho, Yeah, it
was I really enjoyed the cast and the name alone
I think carried me to the movie. But obviously watching it,
I feel like there's flourishes of something great there that
(12:53):
you know, has has some sloppiness to it, but at
the same time is quite an enjoyable ride of revenge
and it culminates into something really really fun, I think,
and I really enjoy a lot of the action sequences
that occur towards that you know, climax quite a bit,
and the music into it as well. I can just
go on. But man, what incredible score. Very memorable kind
(13:19):
of score. But you know, all together this movie. Surprisingly,
the more and more I think about it, I kind
of really like it. Actually, It's one that I feel
like I didn't give enough credit for. I've seen it
a few times now, and on this past revisit, I've
enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, I am right there with you, Like I think
this is my second or third time seeing it, and
I originally I saw it for the first time after
I had already seen Four of The Apocalypse, which is
a later full chee spaghetti western.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, something to see that.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah, And so I really enjoyed for The Apocalypse when
I first saw it, And I actually think I didn't
enjoy Masacre time on a first watch because I wanted
something closer to the Fulgi aesthetic that I was so
drawn to, and four of the Apocalypse I remember having
more of his kind of horror atmosphere and aesthetic. And
(14:20):
it makes sense because that movie came out at a
time where he had already made like a lizard and
a woman's skin and don't torture a duckling. So he
was already kind of pushing the envelope. But this time around,
I feel like I was able to watch it and
remove his later work from my mind and just judge
it as, yeah, what it is that spaghetti western from
sixty six, right, And my experience this time around was
(14:43):
so much better. Like I really enjoyed rewatching Mascer time.
And there's a couple things that are a little weird
to me about it, mostly how passive Franco Nero's character
is in some scenes strike me as being really odd.
But but there's a lot to enjoy and appreciate in this movie,
(15:05):
and I think a couple of the performances are really strong.
I thought, George Hilton, this is probably the most I've
enjoyed him in a movie.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
I would agree. I think this is his time to shine.
Like you know you were saying, Nero in particular kind
of being bland in some instances. I know that he
had made Jango. I think prior to this, I think
I remember him saying that he had anybody had n't
come out yet, So I feel like he had maybe
drawn sixty six out a little bit longer than he wanted,
(15:33):
you know, like that year of what he right? Yeah,
but George Hilton was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Yeah. And then I think the other key performance is
definitely Nino Castle Nuwave Nuavo. Is that he say it?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
I think it's okay, Yeah, we'll go with.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Nino Castle Nuavo. I think I had only seen him.
I've seen him in two movies, Roco and his Brothers
and The The Umbrellas of Shareboard. And I think like
the physicality of his performance in Masctime is pretty awesome,
Like he does this weird head tilt kind of throughout
the movie. His eyes are sometimes only like thirty percent open,
(16:12):
and it's it's a really odd choice, but I think
it works perfectly for his role. And I think the movie,
I think it looks really nice. And like you, I
think the score is pretty awesome and definitely memorable. I
love the main theme, which is sung by Sergio Indrigo
and the lyrics are actually by Luccio Fulci.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Oh, that's fantastic. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah. And I and with the score, I really like
how they use different melodies, like from the theme song
like throughout the movie and the score. I think that
works really well. And I think we should talk a
little more about Franco Nero in this because, like I said,
I do think he's an odd hero. Like there's a
handful of times where it seems like he's waiting for
(16:57):
the right time to make a move and you're kind
of like, is this guy a hero or what? And
and he's not incompetent, like he's not like Jack Burton
from Big Trouble in Little China, like he's just very patient,
I guess. But what did you think of his of
his character?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yeah, I mean it was interesting. You know, obviously he's
kind of set as the main character coming back and
kind of being that hardened brother that you know, saw
the world onlike his other brother. But at the same time,
it doesn't come across in the energy department, I think.
But there are moments, like he said, it's kind of
(17:35):
like you have to be a little patient for him
to jump into action, which you know, with what's whatever
is going on around him is much more pertinent and
you know, chaotic, and he doesn't seem to react in
the same way that whatever the scene is in some instances.
But overall though, I mean, obviously it's Franko Niro. He
acts a lot with his eyes and his mannerisms, and yeah,
(17:59):
so he's obviously a stellar performer. And I mean I
kind of love the duo of him and George Hilton
in particular. I mean that's just a fun, you know,
one two punch, I feel like, and I think that
dynamic is what is what makes it better, you know,
even if George Hilton, I think steals it a little bit.
I think frank Bneiro and George Hilton together make it,
(18:20):
you know that for what it is, I suppose that
enjoyable enjoyability of the dynamic.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, I feel like once they team up, like the
action really picks up and it gets up, it gets
really fun. And I like the first action scene a lot,
like where Hilton is on the side of his horse
like shooting it at people, Like I think that that's
a pretty fun scene and a fun I guess I
don't know if I guess you could call that a stunt.
(18:48):
But I love the scene where Nero thinks Hilton has
uh actually killed his his his real dad and they
fight in that weird little shack. I don't really know
what that location is. But then Hilton empties out his
six shooter, and you see that he wasn't the one
who killed him. And then the next shot, Nero pulls
(19:09):
his gun and you think he might be shooting Hilton,
but then you see like someone approaching on horseback, like
through like an opening in the shack, and and and
Nero was shooting at this other guy who was coming
after them. I love the way that that moment played out.
And yeah, and like and like you said, their dynamic,
I just think is is really entertaining. And and yeah,
(19:34):
and we've kind I've kind of described Nero as being passive.
But but when when the going gets really rough, he
he he does, he does get involved. And I do
feel like that is when the movie is at its best,
and which I do think is something you expect from Fulci.
Although as far as I know, this is really his
first attempt at on screen like violence, unless one of
(19:58):
his comedies has some like comical violence, which they might.
I've never seen any of his releases that came out
before this movie, have you, by any chance?
Speaker 4 (20:08):
I don't believe so. I mean, I think all the
movies I have are you know, in the eighties or
the seventies. For the most part, but you know, I
would love to kind of go back in time and
kind of seeing that trajectory. I actually really like the
special features on here because you actually do if you know,
if anyone gets this particular film, it's in a arrow
(20:31):
box set Vengeance Trails, and the blu ray of it
is from Aero video, and it actually has both George
Hilton and Franco Niro talking about their time on the film,
and pretty recently too, because I believe they're still both alive.
But it was pretty enlightening to kind of hear them
(20:54):
talk about Lucio Fulci in the like sense where they
you saw him before, where he became big, you know,
And yeah, it was interesting hearing their thoughts on like
he was kind of George Hilton didn't like him at all,
He's kind of an asshole, and then you know, Franconniro's like,
I see the genius in him, even if he's like
(21:15):
a kind of stoic and you know, arrogant and maybe
a little impatient with stuff. But it was it was
fascinating hearing that. So I like that behind the scenes
kind of aspect of it, and then obviously seeing where
he went further in this, so yeah, it's a pretty
it's pretty enlightening bonus feature, I think for a weird
(21:37):
film that is actually surprisingly, you know, kind of middle
of the road. You know, it's not nothing, nothing too spectacular,
but I feel like out of the Westerns, it's like
quite enjoyable one, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah. Now I did not get to listen to the
interviews on the disc I did watch. I did listen
to the commentary though, which I which I thought was
was very good. But kind of back to this being
like Fulci's kind of first foray into violence, there are
some scene, there are some moments that I think are
(22:13):
kind of recognizable in later Fulci movies, especially the way
Fulci will just let a violent scene just play out
as long as it can possibly go absolutely like this,
the scene where he lets people just uh just pummel
George Hilton's character. It goes on for so long before
(22:36):
Franco Nero does anything about it, and that's definitely like,
I mean, this is not an equal comparison really, but
it's just something that you see Folchi do, you know,
throughout his career, Like I mean, Zombie.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah, I just watched the.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Splinter going into the eye takes. It feels like forever.
But but I do think it's like ending these moments
of violence. I do think is one of his trademarks
for sure.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, his he hand nye for it.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
You could see it developing, Yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah. And
another thing, a little bit more into George Hilton's character.
So I don't I don't really recall seeing him play
this type of role before and and and like he's
I think he's so great in the action scenes. I
usually associate him with Jallo, especially Sergio Martine's movies. Like
I know, he's in All the Colors of the Dark,
(23:31):
which is not really I don't know if that's really
a Jallo, but he's in the Strange Vice of Miss Ward,
and I love that movie. I think that's a great Jallo.
But here, I do think he's doing something different from
what I've seen previously. And I and I really think
this character was inspired by Dean Martin's character in Rio Bravo.
(23:52):
And I think they mentioned that in in the uh
in the commentary as well. But Hilton, you know, he
plays kind of a drunken, drunken hero basically in this.
But yeah, but what did you think I mean we've
already touched it a little bit, but yeah, what did
you think of his character and kind of his arc
from drunk to this kind of unstoppable action hero.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
I mean, I quite enjoyed it. I mean, I will
admit that I've only seen a few of the jallo's
that he's been in, and so there's definitely a lot
of stuff that I want to see with him in.
But at the same time, I liked his serious acting.
I suppose, you know, I feel like just kind of
going back to that special feature of him reminiscing and
(24:33):
I can kind of see it, you know, having watched
it a second time now. I actually watched the English
dub just to watch it in an interesting way, because
there's there's two dubs to this, but which I think
the Italian is probably the ideal one to watch. But regardless,
(24:54):
it was interesting hearing him talk about how much he
loves putting his energy into this character and have having
something different from what he had been doing prior and
having that physicality to it. I think that's what made
it so enchanting to him, I think, and memorable.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, and they give him really unusual, like strange character
moments like there's a scene where he I don't know
if does he he like hypnotizes a chicken or something like.
There's just some weird, really quirky, kind of offbeat moments
with him. But I think I think, like I like
we've said, I think it's like possibly his best work,
(25:36):
at least that from what I've seen. I think that
he's just tremendous in this. But yeah, I think the
next I kind of want to get into the direction.
I think that Folchi's direction in general, I think is
really good. Yeah. In the commentary track, it's by c
Courtney Joyner and Henry Park. And Henry Park he was
actually a guest on my podcast recently and he's great.
(25:59):
But they they mentioned that Fulci referenced Raoul Walsh and
like really classical Hollywood filmmakers when it came to his
approach in making this movie. And I don't know if
I would have thought that just based on watching it
on my own, but once they mentioned it, I felt
like I started to see that as well, Like especially
(26:22):
in the bull whip scene with Franco Niro and Nino
Castle Nuevo, who I'm going to refer to them by
their character names, moving forward that might just be easier
Tom and Junior. The way that scene is choreographed and
shot is almost like Vincent Minnelli esque, like especially the
way the camera moves with the actors. It tries to
(26:44):
kind of keep them in the same part of the
frame even though there's a lot of movement like within
the frame. And that bit of direction like really stood
out to me. But were there any other kind of
standout moments or like or scenes that were like more memorable,
more memorable because of the way Fulty executes them.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
I mean, the opening sequences kind of sets the tone
for kind of the you know, the foray into the
violence because you see, you see something a little bit
more vicious with you know, with running water and blood
and yeah, chase sequence. I really like that sequence. And
then of course I think, you know, not to you
(27:26):
know talk, I guess after the whipping scene, which I
now I'm thinking about Raoul wash Walsh films, I'm trying
to think about like The Thief of Baghdad and things
along those lines. But I would say the final scene
as well. I mean, the climax. It goes on for
a bit, but at the same time it is really
(27:48):
worth it. Because the sequences of you know, men kind
of tripping upstairs, you know, down by themselves did that
kind of chaotic energy. But also just there was some
pretty tasteful cinematography going on at the very end with
you know, all that action. I suppose.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, oh, definitely, yeah. The action I think is like
really well shot and edited and pretty exciting. Now, one
thing now, and we don't I don't necessarily want to
dwell on this, but I think it has to be
brought up that I do think this movie is an
influence on Django Unchained. Like, I'm sure this isn't the
(28:29):
only movie that has dogs like viciously kill a man,
but I definitely thought about Jango Unchained when I was
watching it because there's a similar scene. It doesn't have
the extended chase that this movie has, but I definitely
was reminded of it. And then even using well, like
(28:51):
the whip scene, there's kind of like there's a scene
in Jango Unchained. I don't know if both characters have
a whip, but there's definitely a scene where maybe I
can't remember if if Jamie Fox is being whipped and
then he takes the whip and starts whipping the other person.
I can't remember exactly how it plays out, but I
did feel like this movie was an influence on Jango Unchained.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Did you feel that absolutely? I mean, I think Junior
is a really good representation of what Leo is. I
think that would be an interesting comparison.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yes, I can see that for sure. Absolutely, the way
that Junior delights in violence, and he seems to kind
of that little kind of tick where where his head
tilts and his eyes are like thirty percent open. It
(29:43):
seems more exaggerated during kind of these violent scenes, which
I thought was I don't know if that's how full
she directed him to be or if that was just
the actor's choice, but I think it works really really well.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, I think it's uh, it's very expressive. I wonder
if I don't know, I mean, I'm just hypothesizing, but
I'm kind of wondering about the language Barrier. I didn't
know if there was any on the set. Obviously there's
you know, George Hilton's Uruguayan, but obviously he speaks Italian. Obviously,
(30:21):
Franco Niro is Italian, and of course Nino I believe
is French. And Okay, I think but he actually could
be Italian. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I
might have that backwards because I think he was the
Italian star in the Umbrellas film. So I don't know
(30:42):
if that hypothesis is real. I think that's not real.
I'm taking it all back. It's all coming superuition.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Yeah, I didn't look up where he was from. But yeah,
and Umbrellas of Scherbourg I haven't seen in a really
long time. I barely remember that movie. But rock Go
and his Brothers I saw somewhat recently, and I can't
say I remember him in it very well. But that
is an Italian movie, so so yeah, and like European actors,
(31:14):
I feel like there's a better chance you'll find ones
that speak multiple languages absolutely so so so maybe he's
someone who speaks French and Italian. But but yeah, you
do have to wonder how how that can affect a performance,
(31:36):
like if a director can't communicate well with an actor.
But here I think, you know, all of these actors
are are are are pretty good. And now another thing
that they another thing they mentioned in the in the commentary,
or that they talked about in the commentary, is that
fulci gets a lot of coverage, and the scene where
the dogs are chasing the victim, there's so many and
(32:01):
I feel like it all cuts together really nicely. And
now there there is one thing that I do think
is kind of funny with this opening scene though. There's
the one dog who doesn't He doesn't play along with
the rest of the pack. Did you notice that one
dog that just runs in the opposite direction?
Speaker 4 (32:17):
That's that's that'll be fun to watch on rewatch.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah, that dog might be the most likable character in
the movie.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Actually, But you know what, I don't want to go
towards this violence. Maybe just be a dog, Yeah, just
be a dog.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
But yeah, the opening, Yeah, it definitely really grabs you
and is just a really awesome way to start off
a movie. Now I'm trying to think if I have
kind of anything else to get into. I don't know,
do you do you have any kind of final thoughts
on this one? Is there anything we didn't we didn't
(32:51):
touch on yet?
Speaker 4 (32:52):
No, but I think, you know, kind of going back
to what we had mentioned at the top, I actually
think this is a movie, you know, for anyone who's
listening to this, you know, I would say give it
some time and watch it multiple times to I think,
appreciate this movie because you might like westerns and this
(33:13):
might already be your cup of tea, but you know,
I think this is something that you know, if you know,
you have a history with Faulcy or any of the
cast or crew or any of that. I think it's
an interesting kind of thought to kind of tackle this
a movie multiple times and kind of see it for
(33:33):
what it is. Because I liked what you had said
about you know, having watched it and kind of just
enjoying it as it is, and I think that is
probably the best way to watch this movie. And you know,
it's just one of those fun, memorable westerns that feels
right on the edge of potentially being, you know, more
violent than it could be.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that this is a movie.
I mean, for me, it like required rewatches to become
for me to enjoy it as much as I do now,
because I think, like with the name fulci like you
(34:18):
carry if you're a fan of his already, you carry
his entire filmography, you know, into what you're watching, like
you kind of take all of that into consideration. And obviously,
because this is so much earlier, and he hadn't been
doing I mean in sixty six, no movies were doing
what Fulci was doing later, right, But yeah, but if
(34:42):
you can definitely separate that and just appreciate, like how
well crafted this is, because I do think it's just
a really well made It's not like it's not a
perfect movie, like I do think like Franco Niro's character is.
(35:03):
I actually think on a first time watch, he's kind
of he's a little bit frustrating because you almost because
you kind of want to see him be more of
a hero. And then when he a either lets George
Hilton do all of the like difficult work or be
(35:23):
if he's just not getting involved, you're kind of like, well,
why isn't this movie just about George Hilton? Why don't
they just get him out of here? But I think
on a rewatch it's, uh, I don't know, for some reason,
it's just more forgivable on a rewatch, And I can't
really put my finger on why. But I mean maybe
(35:44):
part of it is because you've seen it before and
so you don't have any expectations going into it that
Franco Niro, who of course is Jango and played Jango
the same year. You don't you bring those expectations with
you anymore and you just kind of accept what he is.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yeah, I definitely can see that being a factor. And yeah,
I agree that's not necessarily a perfect film, especially with
that performance. But you know, overall, I would say that
I really like how I think Fulci kind of developed
as a filmmaker with this movie. I could easily see
(36:24):
that having just watched Zombie before doing this podcast, and
I had just recently rewatched The Beyond as well, so
I've kind of been on a Fulcie kick lately. But
it's interesting to think about, you know, this movie and
what he would make after the fact, and the fact
that he actually was you know, patient with the shots
(36:45):
or you know, had had very interesting angles and you
know energy that he had to the way that he
framed something. That that's that always you know, it makes
it curious to you know, one to rewatch.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah. Absolutely, all right, Well, well Nathan, where can people
follow you on social media? And why don't you tell
us what kind of what your most recent YouTube videos
have have been on.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Yeah, so everyone can find me At Film Journeys with
Nathan Jones, I talk about a lot of movies that
I usually have been picking up lately, but also at
the same time kind of doing a little bit more
audience engagement. I actually invented this little film Journey wheel,
which is this fun little contraption of this, like think
of a prize wheel, and I magnate or I guess
(37:40):
I put magnets on some laminated paper of different like
boutique labels like Criterion, Era Video, and cut them out
and put them on these magnets, and I spin the wheel,
and right now the prompt is kind of choosing these
unwatched films in my collection, and I've been doing that.
The most recent one was Radiance, and now I'm talking
(38:03):
about Criterion. I'm watching Criterion movies right now on top
of my full G films. But I'm gonna be doing
more interactions because everyone who's watching those these movies, or
at least my videos are are picking the films that
I'm watching. I should have said that at the beginning.
So anyhow, it's been a lot of fun. And you know,
(38:27):
I've done a lot of things on the channel, and
like you know, I said earlier, you've been on the
channel with film journeys. I also do things along those lines,
so roundabout way, I like talking about movies with other
people and my you know, seeing how my own journey goes.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
All right, very cool, But I did leave. I am
going to put a link to your social media anti
your YouTube channel in the show notes, so definitely everyone
go check out his channel and give him a follow.
And also I'll include a link to the film Journeys
episode that I was on as well. But yeah, but Nathan,
thanks again for coming on. This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yeah, I appreciate it, and thanks for letting me ramble
a little bit and talk about I unwatched Jim. I
think for people who should check out a Fulci film
that they don't expect from foul Gi.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yes, absolutely, And I will say now, you and I
were originally going to do talk about all four of
the movies in this arrow video box set, the what's
it called again, Vengeance Valley, Vengeance Trails, Vengeance Trails. I
like Vengeance Valley actually, but but yeah, Vengeance Trails, and
eventually we might make our way through the set.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, I think I think that that.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
I think that would be really fun to do. There's
three other movies and a couple other really well known.
I feel like Italian kind of genre filmmakers. Antonio Margredi
directed And God and God said to Kine, is that
what it's called? Yeah, and God said to Kine. Yet
we stars Klaus Kinski and then also one of my
(40:00):
favorite Italian directors, Massimo di Lamano, did one of the
movies as well, and he did What Have You Done
to a Launch, which is like one of my favorite
movies of all time. I love that movie. So yeah, yeah,
So Nathan will be back to talk about more spaghetti
westerns in the future for sure.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
Absolutely, I'd be down for it. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
I hope you enjoyed this episode. I could talk about
Fulci and Italian genre cinema all day, and Nathan will
definitely be back in the future to talk about spaghetti
westerns again. What are your thoughts on this week's episode
and what did you think of Massacre time? You can
let me know by emailing me or messaging me on Twitter, Instagram,
or Facebook. All the links where you can reach me
are in the show notes. I'll be back in two
weeks with a new guest, and we've got a Charles
(40:47):
Bronson double feature. We're talking about Red Sun and the
White Buffalo. Until then, If you're looking for more film
related podcasts, please check out other shows on the Someone's
Favorite Productions Podcast Network. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Hello, this is Chris Haskell from They Live by Film.
For those that don't know us, Adam Zach and I
we built the podcast over the last two years. That's
a combination of film discussion from three very different perspectives,
as well as industry interviews with the leaders in Boutique,
Blu Ray, and four K community. We started with dev Crocodile,
but over time we've been lucky enough to speak with
(41:21):
Aero Video, Severn, Manda Macabre, Vinegar Syndrome, Radiant Syndicator, most
of the OCN partner labels. It's been a blast. You
can find us wherever you podcast and also actually recently
as part of Someone's Favorite Production Podcast Network. We hope
to see you online.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Thank you for listening. To hear more shows from the
Someone's Favorite Productions Podcast Network, please select the link in
the description
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