April 25, 2023 • 52 mins
Who knows you better than your best friend? Who knows your secrets, your fears, your desires, your strange imperfect self?
Get ready to be all in your feels with We All Want Impossible Things by Catherine Newman.
Edi and Ash have been best friends for over forty years, and when Edi is diagnosed with terminal cancer and put into hospice care, Ash's life is reshaped.
Catherine Newman has managed to write a book that is both sad and funny, and we highly recommend this read. Buddy read with your best friend and make sure to have a good cry and hug after.
On a happier note, do stay till the end of the episode for a very exciting announcement! You don't want to miss it ;)
Cheers!
Get ready to be all in your feels with We All Want Impossible Things by Catherine Newman.
Edi and Ash have been best friends for over forty years, and when Edi is diagnosed with terminal cancer and put into hospice care, Ash's life is reshaped.
Catherine Newman has managed to write a book that is both sad and funny, and we highly recommend this read. Buddy read with your best friend and make sure to have a good cry and hug after.
On a happier note, do stay till the end of the episode for a very exciting announcement! You don't want to miss it ;)
Cheers!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hello, friends, send book lovers, Welcome back to another episode of tool
book nets Stocking, where Diana andI, your friendly neighborhood book worms sit
here and dissect another book, answeringthat each old question of should I read
this book next? How are youDiana? And what are we talking about
today? Hey, honey, it'slovely to be here again with you and
(00:29):
with everyone else. Of course we'remeaning to do this book for a while.
And you know, it's just thatHoney was overseas. Otherwise we'd had
done this a lot faster because it'sit's I don't know, both of us
had a big reaction to this book, right, So this book that we're
doing is we all Want Impossible Thingsby Katherine Newman. Okay, so the
(00:49):
reviews from from like The Guardian.The Guardian called it a whip smart novel
that finds joy and grief. Soreally, honestly, joy and grief.
How's it possible? Another review fromKirkus called it a warm and remarkably funny
book about death and caregiving that willmake readers laugh through the tears and you
(01:11):
love through your tears. Yeah,it kind of like it's a bit overselling,
right, How was that that can'tbe right. No one, no
one, No one's happy about grief, and you know, like death and
caregiving, that's always depressing. Andthe New York Times colonists said that this
was the type of book that Ilike to refer as a really too sad
(01:34):
for my taste, but so good. I couldn't put it down. And
now I had to tell everyone Iknow they have to read it. And
he says, Catherine Newman achieves thenear impossible, a story about death with
humor. Yeah, first, theeEven when we were talking about this and
we were doing like books to lookout for in twenty twenty three, I
(01:57):
already really loved the title. Ithink we all want Impossible Things is such
a fabulous title. And secondly,when you read the Blood, it's basically
about a woman whose best friend isdying of terminal cancer. So both me
and Diana were looking at each othergoing like, yep, this is going
to be a sad book. Andno matter how funny or irreverent or ridiculous
(02:20):
the book can get, you know, I mean there are some movies out
there that kind of mix us griefwith sort of like humor. Right,
you know it's going to be sad, and it's even sadder because even as
you're laughing at the funny things inthe book, you know that eventually those
things are going to hit you atthe end because there's really no recovery from
(02:43):
terminal cancer. So you know thatyou're going to be kind of devastated when
you're reading this book. So weboth thought, are we going to be
masochistic enough to pictures? And strangelyenough, we both were. So I
picked it up first and then Itold honey, Honey, I think you
need to read this. And Ikind of think I think you're kind of
like, hmm, okay, ifyou say so. If I get the
(03:07):
chance, I think I really managedto convince you, right, because you
don't. There's something about this book. From the very first page, you
kind of really sucked into the story. It's just the way that it's written.
It's so engaging, it's it's it'sso alive, right, And it's
weird to use that kind of tosay that a book is alive when it's
(03:30):
about somebody who is dying. Thecharacters they just they just really bully pull
you in and you just kind offeel like they're so relatable. I don't
know. There's something about about ash, especially by God, you just alternatively
you want to shake some sense intoher, and at the same time you
just want to give her this comfortable, comforting, empathetic, empathetic hug,
(03:53):
right, And yeah, I stillwant her to be okay. I still
want her to work out her life, and yeah, just be okay.
But at the end of it,so that we can at least get some
sense that you know, no matterhow bad picks get, it will be
okay. M Yeah, but it'sso hard to think that way, right
when you are actually totally involved inthe messiness of all these emotions, the
(04:17):
messiness of trying to deal with theimpending loss of somebody you absolutely love.
And somewhere as I was reading thebook so first, I was just like,
okay, okay, okay, okay, kind of amusing, but somewhere
towards the middle of the book,it really kind of hits you. Suddenly
you just really can't put it down. And the weird thing about it all
is that, even though it saysvery very clearly in the front of the
(04:40):
book that is a novel, Iactually really thought it was a memoir at
some points of it, And atthe very least auto fiction, because the
people are so vivid, the writingis so intimate. It's so intimate that
you feel that Sureley Newman herself haslost somebody she has loved dearly. You
know. There was so much insightand so much nuance into it that kind
(05:01):
of really spoke to me as somebodywho has also lost people that I love,
right and hear. The worst thingabout her ashes situation, her protagonal
situation, is that you are actuallywatching a person dying day by day.
And always I've had this conversation withpeople, isn't better for us a death
to suddenly happen that you're totally I'mprepared with, But in a way it
(05:21):
happened quickly and the person that youlove is gone? Or can you handle
watching somebody slowly deteriorate? But itallows you time to say goodbye, and
it allows you time to kind ofcome to terms with it, which one
is preferable, And honestly, deathis death. It's just a very different
(05:42):
way of dealing with a loss.I think both you and I had the
sense that this was very much abook that was based on the author's own
experiences. Because I'm Katherine Newman didhave a best friend who you know,
died of cancer, and she nursedher through the cancer. So it's actually
Katherine Newman's first adult novel, althoughshe's been a writer for a very long
(06:06):
time, and she's written two memoirs, two kids how to books, and
a volume of parenting essays, aswell as a middle grade novel, and
she's actually a long time season columnistfor journalists such as The New York Times,
the old magazine Real Simple, So'sshe's definitely a season writer. So
(06:29):
when it came to writing this book, she said that she actually wanted to
take her experience with her friend's deathand make it fiction because she wanted to
express what she called a falling inlove syndrome, where she just had this
overwhelming sense of love for everyone aroundher during that time. And you can
definitely see that in her protagonist.But the way she fell apart and was
(06:53):
basically held together by people around heris apparently very real as well. And
yeah, and apparently all the charactersare based on real people. It's so
intimate, it's so insightful. There'sno way she did she didn't go through
this, and that's where that camefrom. Okay, you know from the
outset that you know. Edie isDiane cancer and Ash, her best friend
(07:17):
basically brings her back to a hospicethat is near her home, so she's
she's away from her own husband andson. Here's what this is. Out
in the hallway, Jude had askedabout Edie's treatment. Isn't she supposed to
get her infusion today? He said, and the nurse had said, cheerfully,
(07:41):
Nope, We're all done with that. And so it seemed we were
Nobody would exactly talked to us aboutthis decision. It was like it had
already happened, and in some othertime and place, you order a burger
and the kitchen makes an executive decisionin the background, with out of burgers,
your service says, there's just displateof nothing with the side of morphine.
(08:03):
Ellen, the social worker, hadtaken Jude and me to her office
to give us a make the bossof her remaining days talk, while simultaneously
clarifying that this bossmaking would need tohappen there. We were confused. I'm
confused, I said, and Ellenhad nodded, slowly, crinkled her eyes
into a pitying smile, and handedas a panphlet called next steps best steps.
(08:28):
It was about a palliative care hospice. But these are the worst steps,
I said, because apparently nothing istoo obvious for me to mention.
And Ellen passed me a box oftissues. I feel like I'm mad at
you, but also like this mightnot be your fault, truthfully, and
she laughed and said, I promiseyou, I understand. I liked her
(08:52):
after that. Yeah, just beingin hospice a place where you go to
die, right, it's not somewherefrom which you know you're going there just
to recover and get well, althoughthat's a fiction that they tell themselves all
the time. Right, they keepbantering about you know, you know,
(09:13):
I'm gonna be outright here next week, the kind of thing. Right,
she's younger person, but she's surroundedby a lot of older people. And
yeah, just the whole environment andthe hospital. I think I love the
way Katherine Newman also brought you intothat environment because it's it's a very private
kind of place. I think youwouldn't be in there unless you're protected to
(09:33):
someone. I'm sorry, is somebodydoing somewhat above you? Yes, right
above me? My god like sorry, everybody, you're going to hear some
KNOCKI yeah, shall we carry on? Yeah? So, bas basically Ash
and Eadie have been friends forever andever. Just being able to spend these
(09:58):
last few months with Eadie ashe relivesher childhood as well, and you know,
she gets a chance to really likereminisce with somebody who's been there with
her since almost a very beginning.And I can't even imagine what it's like
having to say goodbye to somebody who'sbeen there, like they're almost like your
twin, like like somebody who knowsyou so well. Like I love the
(10:22):
passage where Ash says, You're like, you're like my backup drive for my
memory, right, yeah, soyou're basically you're basically, you know,
the person that I go to forjust digging up old memories and stuff like
that. And oh my god,what a wonderful feeling that must be.
But then how sad to imagine thatthe person that you've experienced so much of
(10:43):
your life with it's not going tobe there for the rest of your life.
It's like, when you're reading it, you know that they have a
shorthand already, like you can justsay one word and you know exactly what
it pertains to. So I've alwaysbelieved that like friends, I mean,
I don't really have a friend likeEdi that is from I guess my childhood
(11:05):
in a sense that I see onsuch a regular basis. But generally when
I meet friends that maybe knowing mefrom school, right, I've always imagined
they always kind of know me atthat point of my life, and that
is a person I've already forgotten becausepeople change, right, So I think
that I think that's why she meansright, that you have a little bit
(11:26):
of that anchor, that this isa person who knows you when you were
forming whatever person that you're becoming,and there's still around, which is something
to be said, right for thefact that a lot of people who starch
people out grow friendships, but friendshipsthat kind of remain from like say kienhood
even and especially at our age.Now, Dinah is a long time.
(11:48):
It's more than half a lifetime.We're not that old, but it's more
than half a lifetime for a lotof them we know, like and Yes,
So because of the fact I thinkthat she has this anchor, and
this anchor is about to disappear.The rest of her life is an utter
mess. So Ash's life is areal mess. Right. She's got two
grown daughters, and she's also kindof processed the fact that they're becoming adults.
(12:11):
She has an ex husband named Honey, And I remember Diana said to
me, Honey, you have toread this book because there's a chef in
it named Honey. I was like, that's a great enough reason to read
a book. And she has.I mean, she has a very complicated
relationship with her ex husband. They'rekind of separated, and on top of
that, she's kind of sleeping herway through her grief. Again, this
is not a spoiler. This happensin the first couple of pages, right,
(12:33):
And the first of the people thatshe's sleeping with is Jonah, which
is Edie's brother. The anchiladas aredark red, fragrant and spicy and delicious.
She's losing out of them and pullinginto the pinto beans, which Belle
has simmered with bay leaves and onions. This is amazing, I say,
(12:56):
and Jonah and Honey agree. Ilove the people at dis table so much,
and the food is so good,and Edie is so sick, and
I miss Jewels even though she's onlyan hour and a half away. Plus
the lovely changing light, my poormarriage, the red wine, the candle
glow. Galileo is seeping out ofthe speaker. I could just cry.
I could just cry, I say, and everyone nods because probably I will
(13:20):
cry, and nobody is overly surprisedby disternal events. Belle pats my arm
and says, you're okay that you'dsay while you were putting a band aid
on a weepy, small someone's invisiblepaper cut, and I laugh. Honey
catches us up on edy, asis our habit these days, whatever's been
with her most recently has to telleveryone else every single thing they heard or
(13:43):
noticed. Sorry, sweetie, Honeysays, turning to Belle. I feel
that way too. It's a lotto us of a teenager to listen to
a conversation that somehow incredibly dull butalso really sad at the same time,
like somebody is telling you about itgame of golf they've played in a dream,
but also Mozart's requiem's playing and throughoutall this in a weird kind of
(14:11):
way. Right, She's already grieving. She knows her friend is dying.
She's already in the process of grievingthis friend. So you are literally reading
a woman's heart that is slowly breaking, basically, but that is the painful
part of it, no matter howfunny it is, Right, this is
a woman whose heart is breaking,and I think that's why it's so compelling,
(14:33):
because it's kind of raw in itsown way, And no matter how
much of an asshole as Ashes,because make no mistakes, she's a bit
of an asshole and the things thatshe does, there's also something kind of
heroic about showing up every day andwhat your friends slowly disappear, because I
don't know that many people who cando that. Oh, I think that's
the hardest thing. I mean,just to imagine, just imagine, like
(14:58):
this person is not going to bethe anymore. Right, most people would
just run away, And I thinkthat's what Ash is doing. She's like
hiding from her feelings, but she'strying to be there for her friend at
the same time, so that thatlove for her friend that comes through so
strongly, and I think I justlove that. I think that's so beautiful.
(15:18):
Yeah, but as seriously, somebodyneeds to shake subsense to that girl.
Well, they always say grief isanother country, you know, and
I truly believe that. And it'sanother country where you don't understand the language,
you don't understand the people. You'relost. You want somebody to give
(15:39):
you a direction, but nobody cangive you direction. Nobody can tell you
how to deal with your grief.And I guess for her, she just
gets really horny and she treats peoplearound her not very nicely, even though
she makes it up again, youknow, and the patient is that people
(16:00):
are around her is quite amazing.I mean, I think the other thing
I really love about this book ishow much food there is in this book.
And I think that's pretty much whateverybody does, right when you're sitting
around waiting for something to happen,all you can do is eat. All
you can do is cook and feedthe people that you love, right.
It's such a basic human need becauseyou can't give them any other comfort,
(16:22):
right than maybe making them some deliciousantiladas or something. So that's so much.
There is so much food in thisbook. I almost wanted recipes for
some of the food in this book. You know what you think there is?
There is a cake that is mentionedin this book. Oh my god,
that lemon polenta cake, right isit? Yes, the lemon polenta
cake that is so beautifully described,And so you know, you know what
(16:51):
that sense that you always get abouthow food it stinks to your memory,
Like when you think about things thatyou haven't had for a while, and
you think about certain places and certainevents in your life, and you think
about that specific food and you thinkabout, oh my god, you know,
I just want to eat that onemore time just before I die.
(17:12):
I think I think that food mademe cry as well. The whole idea
about finding the flame and google recipesfor lemon I actually wanted to make.
Yeah don't you wish you to includethe recipe? But yeah, I mean
she didn't get the recipe in theboat. It really it's these small things
(17:33):
that I think Catherine Newman really builtinto the story that really makes you feel
like you get it, You reallyget what it's really like, um going
through this. Yeah, and sortof like the I think it's that app
and flow of emotions, right becauseUm, for Edy, she would have
her good days and then she wouldhave her bad days, and every everything
(17:56):
just circles around her. I mean, like, um, who ever visits
her will come back and talk aboutthe visit. It's like your entire lives
are taken over in the caretaking andin the small little details of what happens
during the day, because you justwant to stare a lifetime worth of experience
with this person because you know they'regoing to be gone. So there's also
(18:17):
that sort of like feeling right whenyou're reading the book, like they want
to fulfill whatever Edie wants. Butthere are days when Edie doesn't want anything.
I mean basically her body is shuttingdown, yeah, slowly, So
you know, that appetite goes withit, like you know, bodily functions
go with it. And it's veryand it's very messy, right, That's
(18:37):
like everything is leaking because you're readingit's like, great, everything is leaking,
and you're just like, oh mygod. You know exactly in a
way what she means. Yeah,because a body, the body just cannot
process things anymore, right, youcan't digest things. There are mornings when
people want to give you breakfast,but you don't want to eat, so
(18:57):
it's a lot of like so basicallywhat you can do in those kinds of
situations is just be there for themand then for the people who are going
through it, you just feed them, which is kind of like what Ash's
family does for her, right,They just rally around her and feed her
and feed each other when when shecan eat, right, Because that's pretty
(19:18):
much like she's probably not able.She's in pain most of the time,
she can't sleep, you know,like just she's away from her family,
and you see that, you feelthat palpable sense of like her sadness at
not being there for her child.And and I think that's one of the
things that I picked up about whatpeople were critical about this book, that
(19:41):
they said that it wasn't believable that, you know, like somebody would choose
to be away from from their ownhusband and child at this time, you
know, when they know they're dying. But I think I think it was
explained quite well the book, likewhy she chose to not be with a
(20:03):
child because it was traumatizing him,you know, and also maybe she wants
him to have a good memory ofher, yeah, that she doesn't want
the last image is her like lookingall skeletal. And I mean, I
don't have a kid, but Ikind of understand, and honestly, people
deal with these sort of situations differently. What makes one person's experience, what
(20:26):
makes it better than another person's experience. You don't know, right, everybody
deals with it different And I'm surethere are those around you know, I
mean, I mean around us thatwould choose to do something like this,
you know, who don't want memorieswith their children, for their children to
grow up with of them dying.And it could be it might be selfish,
(20:48):
but do you know what I mean, I feel that that makes sense.
I think I think that's definitely gonnabe something that would weigh very much
on a child. I mean away, it is hard. I think
it's hard on the person because youwant to have your child with you.
She did it in a loving way. She didn't push them away because she
didn't want them. She she shedid it to save him from the trauma.
(21:12):
And that's one of the things thatI especially loved about's book is how
much love people have for each other. You know, that sense that people
were so kind and so helpful andso supportive of each other. And especially
with Ash and Honey, you knowthey're they're really ridiculous and really dysfunctional and
(21:37):
really Ash, you have such agem of a husband why do you not
see it? And you're just like, why why doesn't their marriage work?
But at the same time, Honeyis there just being so supportive and just
just you know, like he's justdoing everything he can. He would just
come around and bring food and hejust held just he would just be there
(21:59):
and and he'll be you know,going to the hospital with her and stuff
like that. And I'm like,it's so nice to imagine if someone's death
brings people together, And I thinkI think that's one of the beautiful things
to imagine that, Like, youknow, at the very end, it's
a celebration of life, like everybodyis just so thankful for each other.
(22:23):
No, but it's interesting that youbring that up, because in so many
ways this book is also about marriage. I mean, it is about dying,
but there were so many bits andpieces in the book that she observes
about marriage and especially if you've beenmarried to somebody for quite some time.
(22:44):
There was some real great lines init that also makes me feel right like
I kind of flinched at some ofthe lines because they were just so real.
I have a memory some of Honeyserving as a beautiful lambstow years ago
before the girls were both vegetarians.There were white beans in it, cinnamon,
(23:08):
and the kids kept saying delicious withgravy on their chins. Honey's eyes
had been shining with happiness. Irolled all the cuscus from scratch and cooked
it in a special steamer. Iput my folk down, stopped chewing.
Honey. We're super busy. Wedon't even have time to like floss,
and cuscus is so easy. Youcan't just make it from the box.
(23:32):
I don't know, he said,and then added terribly. I'm sorry.
No, no, I said quickly, I'm sorry to be ungrateful. Thank
you for this. But sometimes Iworried that marriage was just a series of
these small deflations, our dreams floatingaround invisibly near the ceiling escaped gas.
(23:53):
And I think the other thing thatwas nice to know is that, yes,
no matter whatever is happening in yourprivate life, in some ways,
you when you are somebody's people,you know, when they always say you
are my people. It's kind ofnice to think that. And again,
this book is fiction that even thoughyour marriage is kind of falling apart,
(24:15):
there is a certain level where youcan still be each other's person. And
I think that it was what Honeywas for ash right, no matter what,
he is her person. And it'sa little tribe right of people who
even though and you and you andyou want to think that even when Dye
is no longer around, these peopleare going to still be each other's people.
(24:37):
You know, they will survive,you know, like they're like,
um, you don't need somebody dyingto be there for somebody, I suppose,
you know. And I think thatwas quite lovely about it and quite
realistic because I don't know. Imean, in my life, I have
people who I call my people,and I would like to think that even
when something terrible happens or you havea fight, there is a way to
(24:59):
come back from it. Maybe somebodydying might be a way of doing it.
I think that's what I love aboutit, is that it's quite a
weird, chaotic messiness but reality abouther life because you know, like there's
no really high and fast rules ofa separation, there's no really high and
fast rules of how you want todeal with a divorce. But yes,
(25:21):
the marriage stuff is really very keenas well quite sharp, you know what
I mean. She's really a sharpwriter in that sense. I feel she
is, you know she is.And I think you know one thing that
really struck me while I was readingthis was it reminded me so much of
everything everywhere all at once. Oh. Interesting, Yeah, because it's because
(25:41):
of parallels with Evelyn and Wayman's marriage. Did you watch that, Honey?
M hm. So I won't giveway too many details, but there's a
parallel between Ash and Honey's marriage andEvening and wayments in because you know,
I just look at how Waymen.He absolutely he drove Evelyn bad shit because
he didn't share her anxieties. Heand you know, like she was like,
(26:04):
I'm growing old and I and Idon't have anything new show for it,
and and he doesn't get it.He's just like he doesn't he doesn't
feel anything. He doesn't have thosekind of anxieties that I have. And
it made her really mad at him. So Wayman is just happy, go
lucky and he and he just choosesto live in the present and I'll be
stressed about what he can't control andchange. But Evelyn just like she just
(26:29):
sucked all the joy out of themarriage. But because she's thinking that he's
just a dreamer and he doesn't haveany drive and purpose in life, you
know. And and she was justso irritated by she blamed him in the
end for everything that was going wrongin her in her life. And and
I think it's quite similar to whatwe have here in we all we all
want impossible things because Ash she like, she feels everything so strongly and deeply,
(26:55):
and she's like, she's probably alsostruggling with with her own mortality.
And you know, like you know, the passage of time's for sure.
Yeah, yeah, now that shesees her friend, you know, like
having terminal cancer, so you know, when Honey doesn't fight back when she
picks a fight with him, thatjust irritates her. Like that that was
(27:17):
the final straw for her, Likeyou know, like and she's like,
she like she thinks it means hedoesn't care, But I think he's just
someone who chooses to be kind ratherthan choose conflict like woymen. Yeah,
I mean, I'm not even sureif she doesn't think he cares. I
feel she thinks that they're out ofsync, right, And I think a
(27:40):
lot of the times, especially whenyou're in long relationships, there are going
to be moments where you wonder,are you still in sync with each other
because maybe you're on different parts ofyour life, or maybe you want them
to feel the way that you feel, as you were saying about you know,
women and Evelyn um so. Andthen for her, maybe the fact
that and he seems to be almostchill about things probably added to her anger,
(28:04):
right, Like, how can younot be so angry at the world
because somebody as wonderful of Edie isgoing to die? How can you not
understand this pain in me? Right? Stop trying to feed me. Food
cannot solve everything, you know whatI mean? And then maybe it's not
just eaty, maybe like the marriagehas been kind of plodding along and there
(28:26):
was nothing really much when she decidedto just throw caution to the wind and
do whatever the hell she wants todo, right, because I remember there
was a lie in the book aboutshe just wants to obliterate her pain by
having other feelings, you know,and it could be sex, it could
be whatever else. She just doesn'twant to feel the pain anymore, right,
And she just decided she just gaveher self permission to do this because
(28:48):
my best friend is dying. There'sa certain degree of selfishness in the way
that she deals with it. Butthat's how she dealt with it, right,
And then you have this very calmman and you just get angry and
angry, and I see it,like why is so calm? So yeah,
I mean, I guess that's whyboth you and I really art that
(29:08):
this book felt very real because itfeels that, Yeah, it makes sense
that that that she reacts in thatway, it makes sense that the people
around her are trading on water.Yeah, I know. I mean I
love how when you when you havesadness in your life, what can you
do with it but try and makefun of it? You know, That's
(29:30):
the only way of coping with it, really, because if you can't laugh
at this point of time, like, what are you gonna do? Just
go just go and see eady andwith a really sad face and and just
be uncontrollably upset all the time,Like how does that make her feel better?
The only way for you to reallymake her comfortable in her in her
(29:51):
last days is to be you know, be supportive, be upbeat, be
positive, and yeah, inject asmuch life into the situation as you can
while you can. I don't knowwould you be able to do this?
Have you ever had a friend thatdied like now? But I can imagine
that if I was in that position, I would want people to not be
(30:14):
sad. I would want people tobe able to make the most of the
time that we have and not justlet the finality of things overshadow everything.
I'm not speaking from experience or anythinglike that, So I don't know that
I could be like that when thetime comes, But I think that's my
ideal that we can actually, youknow, still just make make make the
(30:41):
best use of the time that youhave left and be a stuff. Yeah,
yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. The thing about this book,
it gives you this scenario where youcan imagine that it's very you know,
like you go to the hospital andit's really hushed and really yeah, it's
such a kind of energy kind ofplace. You could you could just just
(31:03):
go there and just be upset ateverything. It's just not a great place
that you want to be. Oryou could try and make it, make
the best of the situation. Makeit so that your friend doesn't have to
suffer every day, you know,like you could you can make it so
that she has something to look forwardto. You do meet a lot of
other interesting characters in this book,like, um, you know, there's
(31:26):
a music therapist there named Cedar whois kind and sexy. And then there's
the physician who looks like Tony Soprano, so they call him doctor Soprano because
he looks at James Gandolfini. Andthen you have I think, a Polish
nurse. And then you also havethe other people who are here, this
woman named Ruth that kept watching Fiddleron the Roof, so along along with
(31:47):
this, there's all this host ofcharacters. As people are waiting to help
people die. I think that itwasn't was that a retriev in the book,
there was a dog that didn't quiteThey didn't quite retrieve, you know.
And I love I love like littlebits of insight. For instance,
like she will Ash would go andvisit one or two all the other patients
and then they were going, ohmy god, you're so young. She's
(32:08):
in her forties. And then she'slike going, there's nothing like hotspice to
remind you that the craptitude, it'stotally relative. It's almost like you're getting
into her mind. And she's likegoing, oh, I guess here,
I do look pretty good you know, and then one and then the fact
that behind closed doors, everybody's inthe business of dying, you know,
So she has all these turns ofphrases like the one I mean this despart
(32:32):
but I was furious, I waslonely. And also someone has slipped some
kind of grief roofie into my cocktail, and he's searched through my brain,
obliterating both hope and reason. Justthe idea of a grief roofie. Right,
that was just such a great She'sjust got such a great tons of
phrases. So you're reading it andyou're kind of laughing with certain parts,
(32:53):
but you're also kind of going,man, that's some good bit of writing
going on there. Yeah, right, it's true. It's so true.
And and I think I think it'sthe characters, like you're saying, you
know, like she she brings themto life. But I guess that's because
they are based on real people,so, you know, and there are
people that she she developed such lovefor, such appreciation for, through this
(33:15):
process, and maybe maybe that's that'sthe gift of this, like, um,
the fact that you really get atime to really calm down and really
get to know people around you,because there's there's probably where we're all involved
in our lives so much like shewas saying before, before Edie got cancer,
(33:36):
she barely saw her. They're gettingmore and more distant, like you
know, they dosed each other.But you know, you have your life
and I have mine. And therewere times when when ashe had her daughters,
when when Edie was like if shewas really trying to have a child
and she couldn't so she couldn't bewith Ash's children, you know, so
that kind of thing. Yeah,you have a favorite part of the book.
(33:57):
Do you have anything that you myfavorite part of the book A pretty
much. I think the beginning.I think the right at the beginning,
when when you you see this wholesetup and everything, and when when when
Ead is just getting ready to betransferred and everything, just the way that
that Katherine Newman set up the relationshipbetween Ash and Eat. Yeah, I
(34:20):
think the rest of it basically you'rejust you're just introduced to how how much
of a mess Ash is. Yeah, No, I mean I think I
think there were there were bits ofthe book where you will see like your
friendship kind of shining through right through, like the idea that she says that
their friendship is their metaphor is blindfaith, right, and and and there
(34:43):
was that moment where they were travelingtogether and then in those days there were
no hand phones, and they say, Okay, I'm going to meet you
here at the end of how manymonths I will be here and you're just
operating on faith, right, thatyour friend is going to show up in
this foreign country where you don't knowwhere anybody is. And sure enough she
does, right. And I've hadsituations like that. I've had friends who
(35:06):
say that, Okay, you canfind me here. I'll be eating NASSEI
going, you know, in thisplace called whatever whatever, right, And
I'm like okay, and I'll justgo right and thinking like, come on,
she's not going to be eating nasigoing and oh my god, she
was, I mean, and shedidn't know what time I was arriving.
(35:29):
She didn't know when I was arriving. And yet clearly she did that day
in day out, thinking that Imight show up. And that was part
of the book really kind of Iwas like, shit, you know,
it's like I get it, Iknow this, I know this sort of
like I guess what you call familythat you choose right, I do have
friends like this. I would giveanything to keep you, I say,
(35:58):
through the sop that's gathering in mythroat, and she says, I know
you would. I would give anythingto stay. Soon, I'd be a
stranger in a strange new place.I sing to her, and she closes
her eyes and smiles. Mostly shesays, I'm just really, really thirsty.
The body and the petty demands.Grief is crashing over our heads like
a tsunami. The miracless soul isabout to be homeless. But thirst is
(36:22):
thirst. So I feel her night, this one beautiful night, the only
here and now we've ever got withSprite. And then you, of course,
then you go down this very darkpath or you think, like,
my god, what happens if myfriend's dying like this? You know?
And then and then you become aThen you get then you become into a
(36:44):
complete Messler. And then you're like, ah, this is terrible. This
book is terrible. Why am Ireading this book? Yeah? I don't
like just just the fact that we'relike, um, we're just just throughout
the whole book, you're just thinking, oh my god, Ash, just
get it together. But how manyof us would be fine. We had
(37:04):
to go through them something like this. You know, she's so endearing as
well. I don't know what itis. You feel like she's so lost
and she's trying, she's so guiltythat you know, like her daughter keeps
catching her with various sexual partners andand she's like she feels so bad about
it, but she still keeps doingit. I mean, even Idia was
like, great, are you sleepingwith this? And just like and just
(37:27):
like, um, no, no, because like yeah, I think,
you know, I think it's justit just shows that, you know,
we have to we have to reallyface the truth that none of us really
have it all together. It's justthat we're often in a place where we've
(37:50):
gotten to that we managed to buildthe pretense. We've managed to build this
illusion, and we can we canhold it together if something happens to to
you know, topple the house ofcards, right, So it just makes
it harder. And I think,you know, like just imagine if something
came along right now in your lifeand through a spatter of the works,
(38:12):
how much can we judge Ashton?Right? I think I think we I
mean, you can wait for copingwith stuff. No, but that's That's
what I mean. If life isalways going to throw some random crap at
you, right, so you canonly hope that you have what Ash has
a little bit of a support system, you know, people who understand that
(38:34):
you need to go through this madnessum and also kind of slightly over the
head a little bit when it's becomingtoo much. Right, But how can
you tell a person who who's somebodyshe loves or he loves incredibly dearly to
just behave How can so all youcan really do, like I said,
is feed them and occasionally sit withthat person to give them a break.
(38:59):
I mean, I think on avery basic level, especially when it comes
to things like loss and grief andpeople losing somebody, that's all you can
really do, just to make surethat they know that you are there if
you need them, make sure thatthey're eating, occasionally give them a break
and give them a hug if theyneed it. You know, I mean,
what else can you really do?Because the person has to go through
(39:20):
it, and it is a verylonely place. You're going through it alone,
no matter why. Right, Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree.
I think I think you know that'sprobably for me the biggest takeaway from this
book was that, you know,we can try and imagine a perfect life
that you want to live, butit's probably not going to be that way.
(39:40):
There's going to be things that happenthat you completely do not want to
happen. And what really matters atthe end of it, what really really
counts, it's basically just the peoplearound you, valuing them, and it's
a small things in life. It'slike finding that lost cake that you really
(40:05):
really dreamed about. It's in youknow, like just spending an evening even
though you know your friend probably can'teat it right right, and you know
it's not even whether or not she'sgoing to eat it, it's just that
you want to give it to her, you know, the act of giving
that is the whole point. AndI think, I think, I just
love that there is this story wherepeople are just so giving to each other,
(40:30):
they're just there for each other,and I just love this story for
that. Yeah, And it kindof suddenly occurred to me as well,
right that generally, when you're goingthrough something like this, what you need
is to be kept busy. AndI feel that this is also kind of
Eaties way of keeping ash busy becauseyou know what I mean, It's like,
(40:50):
you know that your friend is justokay, it's bad enough that you're
dying and you have to cope withthat, but you can also see the
people that you're leaving behind. Soif you think about it, a very
interesting experiment is actually to read abook on Dye's point of view, right,
because you wonder, right, likethe whole lemon cake thing, whether
she really wanted it or she justwanted to keep her friend busy so that
(41:10):
her friend feels that she's doing somethinguseful. And that's love, you know,
Yeah, that's love. It's alsowhere yeah, it's also not only
just to keep her busy, perhapsto give her something so you don't feel
so lost and helpless, you know, because there's something you can do to
help them, really, yes,like you can. You can just like
you know, we give there togive them a cup of water maybe,
but but what else can you doto help them to bear that burden?
(41:35):
You want to do everything you can? Yeah, yeah, And that's that's
the thing. Sometimes when people sayis there anything I can do for you?
Is there anything I can do foryou? I think a kindness is
actually giving them something to do.Oh yeah, that's so true. And
sometimes you forget that, especially ifyou're going, why must I keep you
occupied? But people want me Iknow when when you know, when when
my dad passed away, there waslike people going like, what can I
(41:57):
do for you? Is there anyAnd I'm like going, no, it's
fine, And then occurred to me, actually they actually want to do something,
so maybe so sometimes I mean,I remember I was going like,
oh, I really want to eatfood from this place. It said,
okay, I'll go and get thatfor you. Because people need to know
that at least they're doing something foryou even though they don't know what to
do, right, And you know, I think when I read that,
(42:21):
I realized that, Okay, thisis what Edie is kind of doing for
Ash, you know, Matt,you know, like, oh, I'm
wanting you to find me this obscurecake. So for maybe a couple of
days, she's busy doing something andshe feels I'm doing something for my friend.
So it's yeah, that's why thisbook has all these kind of cool
layers. I think, oh yeah, oh yeah, especially I think you
(42:42):
know that there's there's so much inthe book where she's just spending a lot
of time at the hospice and justlike doing the small, mundane, untidy
like sometimes rather dirty kind of things, you know, just just those tasks.
And part of it is that she'sdoing whatever she can to feel useful
(43:04):
because you feel so useless and helplessand so yes, you know, like
you just we just want to dosomething that you anything that you can.
A part of it is also becausewe keep forgetting that it's the small task
that we do for people that reallymake a difference in their lives. Right,
UM's that that line from from EverythingEverywhere, um Where, Wayman says
(43:27):
to Evelyn in another life, Ithink I would have really loved just doing
laundry and taxes with you, andthat that that line really hits me because
you know, we we think thatit's the big things. It's like it's
it's get getting famous, it's youknow, it's getting to be successful.
It's because it's earning lots and lotsof money. Like one of the things
(43:47):
that Ash is so she's she's soshe has almost anxiety over the fact that
you know, she's stopped making money, Like she says to her children need
things and stuff like that, andpeople like you know, why are you
doing all these shit jobs? Andand she's like, because I need money,
like you know, and people's peopleactually feel that she has talents,
but she's just like she doesn't believein herself enough that she wants to go
(44:12):
do that instead. So, youknow, it's just the small mundane things
like laundry and taxes was the thingin everything everywhere. You can say that
though if you're not doing it everyday though, yeah, so it's super
romantic. But when you're but onthe main, yeah, that's everything,
right because we don't think of itas romantic because it's so boring, it's
(44:35):
so tedious, and it's so likeyou know, it's it's it's just endless.
You just have to do it allthe time. It's just it's just
never it's just never done. Butbeing there with someone, well they have
to go through that. That isthe main point. It's being there with
them. It's not about it's aboutchoosing the difficult stuff. And that's what
(45:00):
Ashta. She comes back again andagain to do it. And I think
I think that that's what Bakers makesher a hero. More than that,
I mean, that's there's something verystrangely heroic about just showing up even as
your heart is breaking, right,and and you know, and you all
and it reminds you of all thissort of like you read certain books or
you watch certain shows where people saythat I never knew that those were the
(45:22):
happiest days of my life doing thoseboring stuff until it's taken away from you,
right, So, and then whenyou lose it, then you realize,
oh, I actually I was reallyhappy. I just never realized that
that was what happiness was, rightbecause it's with somebody that I want to
be with, and it was justreally boring. Shit, Oh my god.
(45:44):
This is what middle aged kind oflike ruminations sound like Diana the Small
Stuff. Yeah, maybe maybe it'snot really for someone a lot younger,
but you know, I mean,like you know, then there's some really
mature younger people. Yeah. Okay, um, we have we have wax
lyrical Okay, why should somebody readthis book. Let's let's kind of like
(46:07):
tie it all together. You canstart for it, Stina, Okay.
I think of this book as acelebration of all the little things that we
tend to overlook in you know,like in just just because we're so busy
with our lives. We're always tryingto get more, and we're always trying
to get better, and we're soworried about the big things that we forget
(46:28):
about the little things, right,We forget to appreciate the people that we
have around us. We forget tooto be there for others when they need
us. We forget to you know, thank our children for their forbearance and
to thank our spouses for you know, not running away that kind of thing.
(46:49):
I think it's just a celebration ofa kind of friendship, you know,
the little joys and family life beingreally and truly seen by the people
around us. And these are alllike there's there's some underrated kind of kind
of things in our lives. Ifyou have them, you kind of feel
like, you mean, like Idon't really care. But if you don't
(47:10):
have them, that that's when youreally feel the loss. So yeah,
that's what this book brought for me. And I think I think also I
appreciate the fact that she took usinto this because maybe it's because I'm getting
to the age where I feel like, if I haven't encountered this yet,
(47:31):
it's going to happen soon enough.And it kind of gave me a little
bit of prep for that. IM. Well, I mean, I
would say it's kind of like asurvivor's guide to death right and grieving,
And I've had one. I mean, the last one year and a bit
has been a year of a lotof loss for me and the people in
(47:53):
my family. So on one hand, there's a lot here I can be
late to. And also on theother hand, also is how can you
be there for the people who havealso gone through loss? And on top
of that, it really is afunny book. I mean, there are
parts of it that I was laughingout loud. You know, it is,
guys, It is actually a funnybook. It really is a funny
(48:15):
book about dying, about having somebodyyou love dying. But you'll be laughing
and laughing and laughing and suddenly you'relike, oh man, you know,
the suddenly like it just kind ofsucker punches you in the heart. And
grieving is a little like that,grieving, I feel. I mean,
as far as my experience goes,you'll be okay. Most of the time,
(48:35):
you can get ry on if you'rea life but then ever so often
it would just hit you. Andwhen it hits you. You just got
to write it. You just gotto write it because you don't know when
it's coming. Some weird shit weretriggering off and you don't know. Oh
my god. And it's okay becausebooks like this tell you that everybody goes
through their own version of grieving andthere's no right or wrong way and and
(49:00):
and it's okay because there are goingto be people around you that will be
there for you. I guess thisbook is kind of hopeful, right,
Diana. This book basically says it'sgoing to be okay. It's going to
be okay. Yeah, I hopepeople pick it up, because, yes,
it is a wonderful read. Yes, it will make you have all
the feels. I think I feltthings like straight away from the first chapter,
(49:23):
because you know, like there's oh, you feel so much for what's
going on. It will make youwant to go and hug your best friend.
It will. In fact, whenI was reading this, I was
actually going to meet my best friendin New York and celebrate her body with
her. And seriously, I finishedthis book, and then I think the
next day or something, I wentto see her and I actually care for
(49:44):
her. She's like going on youwhat's going on. I know I miss
you too, and I'm like,no, I really do love you,
you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, okay, I think we
should wrap this up. But asusual, thanks for listening to two book
nets Talking Bros. Challenge is abook about a religious figure or a cult.
(50:04):
It's quite a cool prompt though promptmight be a tad bit controversial.
Let's see. Oh, come on, people are so fascinated because so many
documentaries out right now on all thesecults that you never heard of. Somebody
just shared me a video for theSarah the Sarah Lawrence one. Um,
(50:27):
I do not know though, Ohmy god. Wow. Okay, but
yeah, we also have some prettyexciting news for you TBNT. We'll be
working with AS for their Women's Libraryproject. If you haven't heard about it,
they had one in Singapore last yearand it was amazing. So this
(50:50):
year they're bringing it to Blasia LuckyUS. So this project, they're going
to take three of their flagship storesand basically take all their stock out and
turn the stores into bookstores just fora day, and you can basically just
go and pick out a book thatyou want. How good is that they're
(51:10):
actually choosing women's authors from Malaysia,you know, in all the major languages,
in English, in Malay, andin Chinese. So yeah, you
can get you get a choice ofbooks. You know, it's gonna be
It's amazing because we I think,I think, you know, we haven't
got a lot of chances like thisto really be an advocate for literacy in
(51:34):
this way. And that's why Ithought that. You know, when when
we were offered this, I waslike, oh my god, we gotta
do this. So yeah, sothat's gonna be something that we're gonna be
launching with them soon. You know. Of course they were on Facebook,
get to Woden's stocking on I GTBNTbooks on Twitter at tbnt pot. Yeah.
We leave here with this final word. At the temple, there is
(51:58):
a poem called Loss carved into thestone. It has three words, but
the poet has scratched them out.You cannot read loss, only feel it.
Oh honey, this is so profound. And that is from Memos of
Geisha by Arthur Golden. By everyone, see everyone
Hello, friends, send book lovers, Welcome back to another episode of tool
book nets Stocking, where Diana andI, your friendly neighborhood book worms sit
here and dissect another book, answeringthat each old question of should I read
this book next? How are youDiana? And what are we talking about
today? Hey, honey, it'slovely to be here again with you and
(00:29):
with everyone else. Of course we'remeaning to do this book for a while.
And you know, it's just thatHoney was overseas. Otherwise we'd had
done this a lot faster because it'sit's I don't know, both of us
had a big reaction to this book, right, So this book that we're
doing is we all Want Impossible Thingsby Katherine Newman. Okay, so the
(00:49):
reviews from from like The Guardian.The Guardian called it a whip smart novel
that finds joy and grief. Soreally, honestly, joy and grief.
How's it possible? Another review fromKirkus called it a warm and remarkably funny
book about death and caregiving that willmake readers laugh through the tears and you
(01:11):
love through your tears. Yeah,it kind of like it's a bit overselling,
right, How was that that can'tbe right. No one, no
one, No one's happy about grief, and you know, like death and
caregiving, that's always depressing. Andthe New York Times colonists said that this
was the type of book that Ilike to refer as a really too sad
(01:34):
for my taste, but so good. I couldn't put it down. And
now I had to tell everyone Iknow they have to read it. And
he says, Catherine Newman achieves thenear impossible, a story about death with
humor. Yeah, first, theeEven when we were talking about this and
we were doing like books to lookout for in twenty twenty three, I
(01:57):
already really loved the title. Ithink we all want Impossible Things is such
a fabulous title. And secondly,when you read the Blood, it's basically
about a woman whose best friend isdying of terminal cancer. So both me
and Diana were looking at each othergoing like, yep, this is going
to be a sad book. Andno matter how funny or irreverent or ridiculous
(02:20):
the book can get, you know, I mean there are some movies out
there that kind of mix us griefwith sort of like humor. Right,
you know it's going to be sad, and it's even sadder because even as
you're laughing at the funny things inthe book, you know that eventually those
things are going to hit you atthe end because there's really no recovery from
(02:43):
terminal cancer. So you know thatyou're going to be kind of devastated when
you're reading this book. So weboth thought, are we going to be
masochistic enough to pictures? And strangelyenough, we both were. So I
picked it up first and then Itold honey, Honey, I think you
need to read this. And Ikind of think I think you're kind of
like, hmm, okay, ifyou say so. If I get the
(03:07):
chance, I think I really managedto convince you, right, because you
don't. There's something about this book. From the very first page, you
kind of really sucked into the story. It's just the way that it's written.
It's so engaging, it's it's it'sso alive, right, And it's
weird to use that kind of tosay that a book is alive when it's
(03:30):
about somebody who is dying. Thecharacters they just they just really bully pull
you in and you just kind offeel like they're so relatable. I don't
know. There's something about about ash, especially by God, you just alternatively
you want to shake some sense intoher, and at the same time you
just want to give her this comfortable, comforting, empathetic, empathetic hug,
(03:53):
right, And yeah, I stillwant her to be okay. I still
want her to work out her life, and yeah, just be okay.
But at the end of it,so that we can at least get some
sense that you know, no matterhow bad picks get, it will be
okay. M Yeah, but it'sso hard to think that way, right
when you are actually totally involved inthe messiness of all these emotions, the
(04:17):
messiness of trying to deal with theimpending loss of somebody you absolutely love.
And somewhere as I was reading thebook so first, I was just like,
okay, okay, okay, okay, kind of amusing, but somewhere
towards the middle of the book,it really kind of hits you. Suddenly
you just really can't put it down. And the weird thing about it all
is that, even though it saysvery very clearly in the front of the
(04:40):
book that is a novel, Iactually really thought it was a memoir at
some points of it, And atthe very least auto fiction, because the
people are so vivid, the writingis so intimate. It's so intimate that
you feel that Sureley Newman herself haslost somebody she has loved dearly. You
know. There was so much insightand so much nuance into it that kind
(05:01):
of really spoke to me as somebodywho has also lost people that I love,
right and hear. The worst thingabout her ashes situation, her protagonal
situation, is that you are actuallywatching a person dying day by day.
And always I've had this conversation withpeople, isn't better for us a death
to suddenly happen that you're totally I'mprepared with, But in a way it
(05:21):
happened quickly and the person that youlove is gone? Or can you handle
watching somebody slowly deteriorate? But itallows you time to say goodbye, and
it allows you time to kind ofcome to terms with it, which one
is preferable, And honestly, deathis death. It's just a very different
(05:42):
way of dealing with a loss.I think both you and I had the
sense that this was very much abook that was based on the author's own
experiences. Because I'm Katherine Newman didhave a best friend who you know,
died of cancer, and she nursedher through the cancer. So it's actually
Katherine Newman's first adult novel, althoughshe's been a writer for a very long
(06:06):
time, and she's written two memoirs, two kids how to books, and
a volume of parenting essays, aswell as a middle grade novel, and
she's actually a long time season columnistfor journalists such as The New York Times,
the old magazine Real Simple, So'sshe's definitely a season writer. So
(06:29):
when it came to writing this book, she said that she actually wanted to
take her experience with her friend's deathand make it fiction because she wanted to
express what she called a falling inlove syndrome, where she just had this
overwhelming sense of love for everyone aroundher during that time. And you can
definitely see that in her protagonist.But the way she fell apart and was
(06:53):
basically held together by people around heris apparently very real as well. And
yeah, and apparently all the charactersare based on real people. It's so
intimate, it's so insightful. There'sno way she did she didn't go through
this, and that's where that camefrom. Okay, you know from the
outset that you know. Edie isDiane cancer and Ash, her best friend
(07:17):
basically brings her back to a hospicethat is near her home, so she's
she's away from her own husband andson. Here's what this is. Out
in the hallway, Jude had askedabout Edie's treatment. Isn't she supposed to
get her infusion today? He said, and the nurse had said, cheerfully,
(07:41):
Nope, We're all done with that. And so it seemed we were
Nobody would exactly talked to us aboutthis decision. It was like it had
already happened, and in some othertime and place, you order a burger
and the kitchen makes an executive decisionin the background, with out of burgers,
your service says, there's just displateof nothing with the side of morphine.
(08:03):
Ellen, the social worker, hadtaken Jude and me to her office
to give us a make the bossof her remaining days talk, while simultaneously
clarifying that this bossmaking would need tohappen there. We were confused. I'm
confused, I said, and Ellenhad nodded, slowly, crinkled her eyes
into a pitying smile, and handedas a panphlet called next steps best steps.
(08:28):
It was about a palliative care hospice. But these are the worst steps,
I said, because apparently nothing istoo obvious for me to mention.
And Ellen passed me a box oftissues. I feel like I'm mad at
you, but also like this mightnot be your fault, truthfully, and
she laughed and said, I promiseyou, I understand. I liked her
(08:52):
after that. Yeah, just beingin hospice a place where you go to
die, right, it's not somewherefrom which you know you're going there just
to recover and get well, althoughthat's a fiction that they tell themselves all
the time. Right, they keepbantering about you know, you know,
(09:13):
I'm gonna be outright here next week, the kind of thing. Right,
she's younger person, but she's surroundedby a lot of older people. And
yeah, just the whole environment andthe hospital. I think I love the
way Katherine Newman also brought you intothat environment because it's it's a very private
kind of place. I think youwouldn't be in there unless you're protected to
(09:33):
someone. I'm sorry, is somebodydoing somewhat above you? Yes, right
above me? My god like sorry, everybody, you're going to hear some
KNOCKI yeah, shall we carry on? Yeah? So, bas basically Ash
and Eadie have been friends forever andever. Just being able to spend these
(09:58):
last few months with Eadie ashe relivesher childhood as well, and you know,
she gets a chance to really likereminisce with somebody who's been there with
her since almost a very beginning.And I can't even imagine what it's like
having to say goodbye to somebody who'sbeen there, like they're almost like your
twin, like like somebody who knowsyou so well. Like I love the
(10:22):
passage where Ash says, You're like, you're like my backup drive for my
memory, right, yeah, soyou're basically you're basically, you know,
the person that I go to forjust digging up old memories and stuff like
that. And oh my god,what a wonderful feeling that must be.
But then how sad to imagine thatthe person that you've experienced so much of
(10:43):
your life with it's not going tobe there for the rest of your life.
It's like, when you're reading it, you know that they have a
shorthand already, like you can justsay one word and you know exactly what
it pertains to. So I've alwaysbelieved that like friends, I mean,
I don't really have a friend likeEdi that is from I guess my childhood
(11:05):
in a sense that I see onsuch a regular basis. But generally when
I meet friends that maybe knowing mefrom school, right, I've always imagined
they always kind of know me atthat point of my life, and that
is a person I've already forgotten becausepeople change, right, So I think
that I think that's why she meansright, that you have a little bit
(11:26):
of that anchor, that this isa person who knows you when you were
forming whatever person that you're becoming,and there's still around, which is something
to be said, right for thefact that a lot of people who starch
people out grow friendships, but friendshipsthat kind of remain from like say kienhood
even and especially at our age.Now, Dinah is a long time.
(11:48):
It's more than half a lifetime.We're not that old, but it's more
than half a lifetime for a lotof them we know, like and Yes,
So because of the fact I thinkthat she has this anchor, and
this anchor is about to disappear.The rest of her life is an utter
mess. So Ash's life is areal mess. Right. She's got two
grown daughters, and she's also kindof processed the fact that they're becoming adults.
(12:11):
She has an ex husband named Honey, And I remember Diana said to
me, Honey, you have toread this book because there's a chef in
it named Honey. I was like, that's a great enough reason to read
a book. And she has.I mean, she has a very complicated
relationship with her ex husband. They'rekind of separated, and on top of
that, she's kind of sleeping herway through her grief. Again, this
is not a spoiler. This happensin the first couple of pages, right,
(12:33):
And the first of the people thatshe's sleeping with is Jonah, which
is Edie's brother. The anchiladas aredark red, fragrant and spicy and delicious.
She's losing out of them and pullinginto the pinto beans, which Belle
has simmered with bay leaves and onions. This is amazing, I say,
(12:56):
and Jonah and Honey agree. Ilove the people at dis table so much,
and the food is so good,and Edie is so sick, and
I miss Jewels even though she's onlyan hour and a half away. Plus
the lovely changing light, my poormarriage, the red wine, the candle
glow. Galileo is seeping out ofthe speaker. I could just cry.
I could just cry, I say, and everyone nods because probably I will
(13:20):
cry, and nobody is overly surprisedby disternal events. Belle pats my arm
and says, you're okay that you'dsay while you were putting a band aid
on a weepy, small someone's invisiblepaper cut, and I laugh. Honey
catches us up on edy, asis our habit these days, whatever's been
with her most recently has to telleveryone else every single thing they heard or
(13:43):
noticed. Sorry, sweetie, Honeysays, turning to Belle. I feel
that way too. It's a lotto us of a teenager to listen to
a conversation that somehow incredibly dull butalso really sad at the same time,
like somebody is telling you about itgame of golf they've played in a dream,
but also Mozart's requiem's playing and throughoutall this in a weird kind of
(14:11):
way. Right, She's already grieving. She knows her friend is dying.
She's already in the process of grievingthis friend. So you are literally reading
a woman's heart that is slowly breaking, basically, but that is the painful
part of it, no matter howfunny it is, Right, this is
a woman whose heart is breaking,and I think that's why it's so compelling,
(14:33):
because it's kind of raw in itsown way, And no matter how
much of an asshole as Ashes,because make no mistakes, she's a bit
of an asshole and the things thatshe does, there's also something kind of
heroic about showing up every day andwhat your friends slowly disappear, because I
don't know that many people who cando that. Oh, I think that's
the hardest thing. I mean,just to imagine, just imagine, like
(14:58):
this person is not going to bethe anymore. Right, most people would
just run away, And I thinkthat's what Ash is doing. She's like
hiding from her feelings, but she'strying to be there for her friend at
the same time, so that thatlove for her friend that comes through so
strongly, and I think I justlove that. I think that's so beautiful.
(15:18):
Yeah, but as seriously, somebodyneeds to shake subsense to that girl.
Well, they always say grief isanother country, you know, and
I truly believe that. And it'sanother country where you don't understand the language,
you don't understand the people. You'relost. You want somebody to give
(15:39):
you a direction, but nobody cangive you direction. Nobody can tell you
how to deal with your grief.And I guess for her, she just
gets really horny and she treats peoplearound her not very nicely, even though
she makes it up again, youknow, and the patient is that people
(16:00):
are around her is quite amazing.I mean, I think the other thing
I really love about this book ishow much food there is in this book.
And I think that's pretty much whateverybody does, right when you're sitting
around waiting for something to happen,all you can do is eat. All
you can do is cook and feedthe people that you love, right.
It's such a basic human need becauseyou can't give them any other comfort,
(16:22):
right than maybe making them some deliciousantiladas or something. So that's so much.
There is so much food in thisbook. I almost wanted recipes for
some of the food in this book. You know what you think there is?
There is a cake that is mentionedin this book. Oh my god,
that lemon polenta cake, right isit? Yes, the lemon polenta
cake that is so beautifully described,And so you know, you know what
(16:51):
that sense that you always get abouthow food it stinks to your memory,
Like when you think about things thatyou haven't had for a while, and
you think about certain places and certainevents in your life, and you think
about that specific food and you thinkabout, oh my god, you know,
I just want to eat that onemore time just before I die.
(17:12):
I think I think that food mademe cry as well. The whole idea
about finding the flame and google recipesfor lemon I actually wanted to make.
Yeah don't you wish you to includethe recipe? But yeah, I mean
she didn't get the recipe in theboat. It really it's these small things
(17:33):
that I think Catherine Newman really builtinto the story that really makes you feel
like you get it, You reallyget what it's really like, um going
through this. Yeah, and sortof like the I think it's that app
and flow of emotions, right becauseUm, for Edy, she would have
her good days and then she wouldhave her bad days, and every everything
(17:56):
just circles around her. I mean, like, um, who ever visits
her will come back and talk aboutthe visit. It's like your entire lives
are taken over in the caretaking andin the small little details of what happens
during the day, because you justwant to stare a lifetime worth of experience
with this person because you know they'regoing to be gone. So there's also
(18:17):
that sort of like feeling right whenyou're reading the book, like they want
to fulfill whatever Edie wants. Butthere are days when Edie doesn't want anything.
I mean basically her body is shuttingdown, yeah, slowly, So
you know, that appetite goes withit, like you know, bodily functions
go with it. And it's veryand it's very messy, right, That's
(18:37):
like everything is leaking because you're readingit's like, great, everything is leaking,
and you're just like, oh mygod. You know exactly in a
way what she means. Yeah,because a body, the body just cannot
process things anymore, right, youcan't digest things. There are mornings when
people want to give you breakfast,but you don't want to eat, so
(18:57):
it's a lot of like so basicallywhat you can do in those kinds of
situations is just be there for themand then for the people who are going
through it, you just feed them, which is kind of like what Ash's
family does for her, right,They just rally around her and feed her
and feed each other when when shecan eat, right, Because that's pretty
(19:18):
much like she's probably not able.She's in pain most of the time,
she can't sleep, you know,like just she's away from her family,
and you see that, you feelthat palpable sense of like her sadness at
not being there for her child.And and I think that's one of the
things that I picked up about whatpeople were critical about this book, that
(19:41):
they said that it wasn't believable that, you know, like somebody would choose
to be away from from their ownhusband and child at this time, you
know, when they know they're dying. But I think I think it was
explained quite well the book, likewhy she chose to not be with a
(20:03):
child because it was traumatizing him,you know, and also maybe she wants
him to have a good memory ofher, yeah, that she doesn't want
the last image is her like lookingall skeletal. And I mean, I
don't have a kid, but Ikind of understand, and honestly, people
deal with these sort of situations differently. What makes one person's experience, what
(20:26):
makes it better than another person's experience. You don't know, right, everybody
deals with it different And I'm surethere are those around you know, I
mean, I mean around us thatwould choose to do something like this,
you know, who don't want memorieswith their children, for their children to
grow up with of them dying.And it could be it might be selfish,
(20:48):
but do you know what I mean, I feel that that makes sense.
I think I think that's definitely gonnabe something that would weigh very much
on a child. I mean away, it is hard. I think
it's hard on the person because youwant to have your child with you.
She did it in a loving way. She didn't push them away because she
didn't want them. She she shedid it to save him from the trauma.
(21:12):
And that's one of the things thatI especially loved about's book is how
much love people have for each other. You know, that sense that people
were so kind and so helpful andso supportive of each other. And especially
with Ash and Honey, you knowthey're they're really ridiculous and really dysfunctional and
(21:37):
really Ash, you have such agem of a husband why do you not
see it? And you're just like, why why doesn't their marriage work?
But at the same time, Honeyis there just being so supportive and just
just you know, like he's justdoing everything he can. He would just
come around and bring food and hejust held just he would just be there
(21:59):
and and he'll be you know,going to the hospital with her and stuff
like that. And I'm like,it's so nice to imagine if someone's death
brings people together, And I thinkI think that's one of the beautiful things
to imagine that, Like, youknow, at the very end, it's
a celebration of life, like everybodyis just so thankful for each other.
(22:23):
No, but it's interesting that youbring that up, because in so many
ways this book is also about marriage. I mean, it is about dying,
but there were so many bits andpieces in the book that she observes
about marriage and especially if you've beenmarried to somebody for quite some time.
(22:44):
There was some real great lines init that also makes me feel right like
I kind of flinched at some ofthe lines because they were just so real.
I have a memory some of Honeyserving as a beautiful lambstow years ago
before the girls were both vegetarians.There were white beans in it, cinnamon,
(23:08):
and the kids kept saying delicious withgravy on their chins. Honey's eyes
had been shining with happiness. Irolled all the cuscus from scratch and cooked
it in a special steamer. Iput my folk down, stopped chewing.
Honey. We're super busy. Wedon't even have time to like floss,
and cuscus is so easy. Youcan't just make it from the box.
(23:32):
I don't know, he said,and then added terribly. I'm sorry.
No, no, I said quickly, I'm sorry to be ungrateful. Thank
you for this. But sometimes Iworried that marriage was just a series of
these small deflations, our dreams floatingaround invisibly near the ceiling escaped gas.
(23:53):
And I think the other thing thatwas nice to know is that, yes,
no matter whatever is happening in yourprivate life, in some ways,
you when you are somebody's people,you know, when they always say you
are my people. It's kind ofnice to think that. And again,
this book is fiction that even thoughyour marriage is kind of falling apart,
(24:15):
there is a certain level where youcan still be each other's person. And
I think that it was what Honeywas for ash right, no matter what,
he is her person. And it'sa little tribe right of people who
even though and you and you andyou want to think that even when Dye
is no longer around, these peopleare going to still be each other's people.
(24:37):
You know, they will survive,you know, like they're like,
um, you don't need somebody dyingto be there for somebody, I suppose,
you know. And I think thatwas quite lovely about it and quite
realistic because I don't know. Imean, in my life, I have
people who I call my people,and I would like to think that even
when something terrible happens or you havea fight, there is a way to
(24:59):
come back from it. Maybe somebodydying might be a way of doing it.
I think that's what I love aboutit, is that it's quite a
weird, chaotic messiness but reality abouther life because you know, like there's
no really high and fast rules ofa separation, there's no really high and
fast rules of how you want todeal with a divorce. But yes,
(25:21):
the marriage stuff is really very keenas well quite sharp, you know what
I mean. She's really a sharpwriter in that sense. I feel she
is, you know she is.And I think you know one thing that
really struck me while I was readingthis was it reminded me so much of
everything everywhere all at once. Oh. Interesting, Yeah, because it's because
(25:41):
of parallels with Evelyn and Wayman's marriage. Did you watch that, Honey?
M hm. So I won't giveway too many details, but there's a
parallel between Ash and Honey's marriage andEvening and wayments in because you know,
I just look at how Waymen.He absolutely he drove Evelyn bad shit because
he didn't share her anxieties. Heand you know, like she was like,
(26:04):
I'm growing old and I and Idon't have anything new show for it,
and and he doesn't get it.He's just like he doesn't he doesn't
feel anything. He doesn't have thosekind of anxieties that I have. And
it made her really mad at him. So Wayman is just happy, go
lucky and he and he just choosesto live in the present and I'll be
stressed about what he can't control andchange. But Evelyn just like she just
(26:29):
sucked all the joy out of themarriage. But because she's thinking that he's
just a dreamer and he doesn't haveany drive and purpose in life, you
know. And and she was justso irritated by she blamed him in the
end for everything that was going wrongin her in her life. And and
I think it's quite similar to whatwe have here in we all we all
want impossible things because Ash she like, she feels everything so strongly and deeply,
(26:55):
and she's like, she's probably alsostruggling with with her own mortality.
And you know, like you know, the passage of time's for sure.
Yeah, yeah, now that shesees her friend, you know, like
having terminal cancer, so you know, when Honey doesn't fight back when she
picks a fight with him, thatjust irritates her. Like that that was
(27:17):
the final straw for her, Likeyou know, like and she's like,
she like she thinks it means hedoesn't care, But I think he's just
someone who chooses to be kind ratherthan choose conflict like woymen. Yeah,
I mean, I'm not even sureif she doesn't think he cares. I
feel she thinks that they're out ofsync, right, And I think a
(27:40):
lot of the times, especially whenyou're in long relationships, there are going
to be moments where you wonder,are you still in sync with each other
because maybe you're on different parts ofyour life, or maybe you want them
to feel the way that you feel, as you were saying about you know,
women and Evelyn um so. Andthen for her, maybe the fact
that and he seems to be almostchill about things probably added to her anger,
(28:04):
right, Like, how can younot be so angry at the world
because somebody as wonderful of Edie isgoing to die? How can you not
understand this pain in me? Right? Stop trying to feed me. Food
cannot solve everything, you know whatI mean? And then maybe it's not
just eaty, maybe like the marriagehas been kind of plodding along and there
(28:26):
was nothing really much when she decidedto just throw caution to the wind and
do whatever the hell she wants todo, right, because I remember there
was a lie in the book aboutshe just wants to obliterate her pain by
having other feelings, you know,and it could be sex, it could
be whatever else. She just doesn'twant to feel the pain anymore, right,
And she just decided she just gaveher self permission to do this because
(28:48):
my best friend is dying. There'sa certain degree of selfishness in the way
that she deals with it. Butthat's how she dealt with it, right,
And then you have this very calmman and you just get angry and
angry, and I see it,like why is so calm? So yeah,
I mean, I guess that's whyboth you and I really art that
(29:08):
this book felt very real because itfeels that, Yeah, it makes sense
that that that she reacts in thatway, it makes sense that the people
around her are trading on water.Yeah, I know. I mean I
love how when you when you havesadness in your life, what can you
do with it but try and makefun of it? You know, That's
(29:30):
the only way of coping with it, really, because if you can't laugh
at this point of time, like, what are you gonna do? Just
go just go and see eady andwith a really sad face and and just
be uncontrollably upset all the time,Like how does that make her feel better?
The only way for you to reallymake her comfortable in her in her
(29:51):
last days is to be you know, be supportive, be upbeat, be
positive, and yeah, inject asmuch life into the situation as you can
while you can. I don't knowwould you be able to do this?
Have you ever had a friend thatdied like now? But I can imagine
that if I was in that position, I would want people to not be
(30:14):
sad. I would want people tobe able to make the most of the
time that we have and not justlet the finality of things overshadow everything.
I'm not speaking from experience or anythinglike that, So I don't know that
I could be like that when thetime comes, But I think that's my
ideal that we can actually, youknow, still just make make make the
(30:41):
best use of the time that youhave left and be a stuff. Yeah,
yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. The thing about this book,
it gives you this scenario where youcan imagine that it's very you know,
like you go to the hospital andit's really hushed and really yeah, it's
such a kind of energy kind ofplace. You could you could just just
(31:03):
go there and just be upset ateverything. It's just not a great place
that you want to be. Oryou could try and make it, make
the best of the situation. Makeit so that your friend doesn't have to
suffer every day, you know,like you could you can make it so
that she has something to look forwardto. You do meet a lot of
other interesting characters in this book,like, um, you know, there's
(31:26):
a music therapist there named Cedar whois kind and sexy. And then there's
the physician who looks like Tony Soprano, so they call him doctor Soprano because
he looks at James Gandolfini. Andthen you have I think, a Polish
nurse. And then you also havethe other people who are here, this
woman named Ruth that kept watching Fiddleron the Roof, so along along with
(31:47):
this, there's all this host ofcharacters. As people are waiting to help
people die. I think that itwasn't was that a retriev in the book,
there was a dog that didn't quiteThey didn't quite retrieve, you know.
And I love I love like littlebits of insight. For instance,
like she will Ash would go andvisit one or two all the other patients
and then they were going, ohmy god, you're so young. She's
(32:08):
in her forties. And then she'slike going, there's nothing like hotspice to
remind you that the craptitude, it'stotally relative. It's almost like you're getting
into her mind. And she's likegoing, oh, I guess here,
I do look pretty good you know, and then one and then the fact
that behind closed doors, everybody's inthe business of dying, you know,
So she has all these turns ofphrases like the one I mean this despart
(32:32):
but I was furious, I waslonely. And also someone has slipped some
kind of grief roofie into my cocktail, and he's searched through my brain,
obliterating both hope and reason. Justthe idea of a grief roofie. Right,
that was just such a great She'sjust got such a great tons of
phrases. So you're reading it andyou're kind of laughing with certain parts,
(32:53):
but you're also kind of going,man, that's some good bit of writing
going on there. Yeah, right, it's true. It's so true.
And and I think I think it'sthe characters, like you're saying, you
know, like she she brings themto life. But I guess that's because
they are based on real people,so, you know, and there are
people that she she developed such lovefor, such appreciation for, through this
(33:15):
process, and maybe maybe that's that'sthe gift of this, like, um,
the fact that you really get atime to really calm down and really
get to know people around you,because there's there's probably where we're all involved
in our lives so much like shewas saying before, before Edie got cancer,
(33:36):
she barely saw her. They're gettingmore and more distant, like you
know, they dosed each other.But you know, you have your life
and I have mine. And therewere times when when ashe had her daughters,
when when Edie was like if shewas really trying to have a child
and she couldn't so she couldn't bewith Ash's children, you know, so
that kind of thing. Yeah,you have a favorite part of the book.
(33:57):
Do you have anything that you myfavorite part of the book A pretty
much. I think the beginning.I think the right at the beginning,
when when you you see this wholesetup and everything, and when when when
Ead is just getting ready to betransferred and everything, just the way that
that Katherine Newman set up the relationshipbetween Ash and Eat. Yeah, I
(34:20):
think the rest of it basically you'rejust you're just introduced to how how much
of a mess Ash is. Yeah, No, I mean I think I
think there were there were bits ofthe book where you will see like your
friendship kind of shining through right through, like the idea that she says that
their friendship is their metaphor is blindfaith, right, and and and there
(34:43):
was that moment where they were travelingtogether and then in those days there were
no hand phones, and they say, Okay, I'm going to meet you
here at the end of how manymonths I will be here and you're just
operating on faith, right, thatyour friend is going to show up in
this foreign country where you don't knowwhere anybody is. And sure enough she
does, right. And I've hadsituations like that. I've had friends who
(35:06):
say that, Okay, you canfind me here. I'll be eating NASSEI
going, you know, in thisplace called whatever whatever, right, And
I'm like okay, and I'll justgo right and thinking like, come on,
she's not going to be eating nasigoing and oh my god, she
was, I mean, and shedidn't know what time I was arriving.
(35:29):
She didn't know when I was arriving. And yet clearly she did that day
in day out, thinking that Imight show up. And that was part
of the book really kind of Iwas like, shit, you know,
it's like I get it, Iknow this, I know this sort of
like I guess what you call familythat you choose right, I do have
friends like this. I would giveanything to keep you, I say,
(35:58):
through the sop that's gathering in mythroat, and she says, I know
you would. I would give anythingto stay. Soon, I'd be a
stranger in a strange new place.I sing to her, and she closes
her eyes and smiles. Mostly shesays, I'm just really, really thirsty.
The body and the petty demands.Grief is crashing over our heads like
a tsunami. The miracless soul isabout to be homeless. But thirst is
(36:22):
thirst. So I feel her night, this one beautiful night, the only
here and now we've ever got withSprite. And then you, of course,
then you go down this very darkpath or you think, like,
my god, what happens if myfriend's dying like this? You know?
And then and then you become aThen you get then you become into a
(36:44):
complete Messler. And then you're like, ah, this is terrible. This
book is terrible. Why am Ireading this book? Yeah? I don't
like just just the fact that we'relike, um, we're just just throughout
the whole book, you're just thinking, oh my god, Ash, just
get it together. But how manyof us would be fine. We had
(37:04):
to go through them something like this. You know, she's so endearing as
well. I don't know what itis. You feel like she's so lost
and she's trying, she's so guiltythat you know, like her daughter keeps
catching her with various sexual partners andand she's like she feels so bad about
it, but she still keeps doingit. I mean, even Idia was
like, great, are you sleepingwith this? And just like and just
(37:27):
like, um, no, no, because like yeah, I think,
you know, I think it's justit just shows that, you know,
we have to we have to reallyface the truth that none of us really
have it all together. It's justthat we're often in a place where we've
(37:50):
gotten to that we managed to buildthe pretense. We've managed to build this
illusion, and we can we canhold it together if something happens to to
you know, topple the house ofcards, right, So it just makes
it harder. And I think,you know, like just imagine if something
came along right now in your lifeand through a spatter of the works,
(38:12):
how much can we judge Ashton?Right? I think I think we I
mean, you can wait for copingwith stuff. No, but that's That's
what I mean. If life isalways going to throw some random crap at
you, right, so you canonly hope that you have what Ash has
a little bit of a support system, you know, people who understand that
(38:34):
you need to go through this madnessum and also kind of slightly over the
head a little bit when it's becomingtoo much. Right, But how can
you tell a person who who's somebodyshe loves or he loves incredibly dearly to
just behave How can so all youcan really do, like I said,
is feed them and occasionally sit withthat person to give them a break.
(38:59):
I mean, I think on avery basic level, especially when it comes
to things like loss and grief andpeople losing somebody, that's all you can
really do, just to make surethat they know that you are there if
you need them, make sure thatthey're eating, occasionally give them a break
and give them a hug if theyneed it. You know, I mean,
what else can you really do?Because the person has to go through
(39:20):
it, and it is a verylonely place. You're going through it alone,
no matter why. Right, Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree.
I think I think you know that'sprobably for me the biggest takeaway from this
book was that, you know,we can try and imagine a perfect life
that you want to live, butit's probably not going to be that way.
(39:40):
There's going to be things that happenthat you completely do not want to
happen. And what really matters atthe end of it, what really really
counts, it's basically just the peoplearound you, valuing them, and it's
a small things in life. It'slike finding that lost cake that you really
(40:05):
really dreamed about. It's in youknow, like just spending an evening even
though you know your friend probably can'teat it right right, and you know
it's not even whether or not she'sgoing to eat it, it's just that
you want to give it to her, you know, the act of giving
that is the whole point. AndI think, I think, I just
love that there is this story wherepeople are just so giving to each other,
(40:30):
they're just there for each other,and I just love this story for
that. Yeah, And it kindof suddenly occurred to me as well,
right that generally, when you're goingthrough something like this, what you need
is to be kept busy. AndI feel that this is also kind of
Eaties way of keeping ash busy becauseyou know what I mean, It's like,
(40:50):
you know that your friend is justokay, it's bad enough that you're
dying and you have to cope withthat, but you can also see the
people that you're leaving behind. Soif you think about it, a very
interesting experiment is actually to read abook on Dye's point of view, right,
because you wonder, right, likethe whole lemon cake thing, whether
she really wanted it or she justwanted to keep her friend busy so that
(41:10):
her friend feels that she's doing somethinguseful. And that's love, you know,
Yeah, that's love. It's alsowhere yeah, it's also not only
just to keep her busy, perhapsto give her something so you don't feel
so lost and helpless, you know, because there's something you can do to
help them, really, yes,like you can. You can just like
you know, we give there togive them a cup of water maybe,
but but what else can you doto help them to bear that burden?
(41:35):
You want to do everything you can? Yeah, yeah, And that's that's
the thing. Sometimes when people sayis there anything I can do for you?
Is there anything I can do foryou? I think a kindness is
actually giving them something to do.Oh yeah, that's so true. And
sometimes you forget that, especially ifyou're going, why must I keep you
occupied? But people want me Iknow when when you know, when when
my dad passed away, there waslike people going like, what can I
(41:57):
do for you? Is there anyAnd I'm like going, no, it's
fine, And then occurred to me, actually they actually want to do something,
so maybe so sometimes I mean,I remember I was going like,
oh, I really want to eatfood from this place. It said,
okay, I'll go and get thatfor you. Because people need to know
that at least they're doing something foryou even though they don't know what to
do, right, And you know, I think when I read that,
(42:21):
I realized that, Okay, thisis what Edie is kind of doing for
Ash, you know, Matt,you know, like, oh, I'm
wanting you to find me this obscurecake. So for maybe a couple of
days, she's busy doing something andshe feels I'm doing something for my friend.
So it's yeah, that's why thisbook has all these kind of cool
layers. I think, oh yeah, oh yeah, especially I think you
(42:42):
know that there's there's so much inthe book where she's just spending a lot
of time at the hospice and justlike doing the small, mundane, untidy
like sometimes rather dirty kind of things, you know, just just those tasks.
And part of it is that she'sdoing whatever she can to feel useful
(43:04):
because you feel so useless and helplessand so yes, you know, like
you just we just want to dosomething that you anything that you can.
A part of it is also becausewe keep forgetting that it's the small task
that we do for people that reallymake a difference in their lives. Right,
UM's that that line from from EverythingEverywhere, um Where, Wayman says
(43:27):
to Evelyn in another life, Ithink I would have really loved just doing
laundry and taxes with you, andthat that that line really hits me because
you know, we we think thatit's the big things. It's like it's
it's get getting famous, it's youknow, it's getting to be successful.
It's because it's earning lots and lotsof money. Like one of the things
(43:47):
that Ash is so she's she's soshe has almost anxiety over the fact that
you know, she's stopped making money, Like she says to her children need
things and stuff like that, andpeople like you know, why are you
doing all these shit jobs? Andand she's like, because I need money,
like you know, and people's peopleactually feel that she has talents,
but she's just like she doesn't believein herself enough that she wants to go
(44:12):
do that instead. So, youknow, it's just the small mundane things
like laundry and taxes was the thingin everything everywhere. You can say that
though if you're not doing it everyday though, yeah, so it's super
romantic. But when you're but onthe main, yeah, that's everything,
right because we don't think of itas romantic because it's so boring, it's
(44:35):
so tedious, and it's so likeyou know, it's it's it's just endless.
You just have to do it allthe time. It's just it's just
never it's just never done. Butbeing there with someone, well they have
to go through that. That isthe main point. It's being there with
them. It's not about it's aboutchoosing the difficult stuff. And that's what
(45:00):
Ashta. She comes back again andagain to do it. And I think
I think that that's what Bakers makesher a hero. More than that,
I mean, that's there's something verystrangely heroic about just showing up even as
your heart is breaking, right,and and you know, and you all
and it reminds you of all thissort of like you read certain books or
you watch certain shows where people saythat I never knew that those were the
(45:22):
happiest days of my life doing thoseboring stuff until it's taken away from you,
right, So, and then whenyou lose it, then you realize,
oh, I actually I was reallyhappy. I just never realized that
that was what happiness was, rightbecause it's with somebody that I want to
be with, and it was justreally boring. Shit, Oh my god.
(45:44):
This is what middle aged kind oflike ruminations sound like Diana the Small
Stuff. Yeah, maybe maybe it'snot really for someone a lot younger,
but you know, I mean,like you know, then there's some really
mature younger people. Yeah. Okay, um, we have we have wax
lyrical Okay, why should somebody readthis book. Let's let's kind of like
(46:07):
tie it all together. You canstart for it, Stina, Okay.
I think of this book as acelebration of all the little things that we
tend to overlook in you know,like in just just because we're so busy
with our lives. We're always tryingto get more, and we're always trying
to get better, and we're soworried about the big things that we forget
(46:28):
about the little things, right,We forget to appreciate the people that we
have around us. We forget tooto be there for others when they need
us. We forget to you know, thank our children for their forbearance and
to thank our spouses for you know, not running away that kind of thing.
(46:49):
I think it's just a celebration ofa kind of friendship, you know,
the little joys and family life beingreally and truly seen by the people
around us. And these are alllike there's there's some underrated kind of kind
of things in our lives. Ifyou have them, you kind of feel
like, you mean, like Idon't really care. But if you don't
(47:10):
have them, that that's when youreally feel the loss. So yeah,
that's what this book brought for me. And I think I think also I
appreciate the fact that she took usinto this because maybe it's because I'm getting
to the age where I feel like, if I haven't encountered this yet,
(47:31):
it's going to happen soon enough.And it kind of gave me a little
bit of prep for that. IM. Well, I mean, I
would say it's kind of like asurvivor's guide to death right and grieving,
And I've had one. I mean, the last one year and a bit
has been a year of a lotof loss for me and the people in
(47:53):
my family. So on one hand, there's a lot here I can be
late to. And also on theother hand, also is how can you
be there for the people who havealso gone through loss? And on top
of that, it really is afunny book. I mean, there are
parts of it that I was laughingout loud. You know, it is,
guys, It is actually a funnybook. It really is a funny
(48:15):
book about dying, about having somebodyyou love dying. But you'll be laughing
and laughing and laughing and suddenly you'relike, oh man, you know,
the suddenly like it just kind ofsucker punches you in the heart. And
grieving is a little like that,grieving, I feel. I mean,
as far as my experience goes,you'll be okay. Most of the time,
(48:35):
you can get ry on if you'rea life but then ever so often
it would just hit you. Andwhen it hits you. You just got
to write it. You just gotto write it because you don't know when
it's coming. Some weird shit weretriggering off and you don't know. Oh
my god. And it's okay becausebooks like this tell you that everybody goes
through their own version of grieving andthere's no right or wrong way and and
(49:00):
and it's okay because there are goingto be people around you that will be
there for you. I guess thisbook is kind of hopeful, right,
Diana. This book basically says it'sgoing to be okay. It's going to
be okay. Yeah, I hopepeople pick it up, because, yes,
it is a wonderful read. Yes, it will make you have all
the feels. I think I feltthings like straight away from the first chapter,
(49:23):
because you know, like there's oh, you feel so much for what's
going on. It will make youwant to go and hug your best friend.
It will. In fact, whenI was reading this, I was
actually going to meet my best friendin New York and celebrate her body with
her. And seriously, I finishedthis book, and then I think the
next day or something, I wentto see her and I actually care for
(49:44):
her. She's like going on youwhat's going on. I know I miss
you too, and I'm like,no, I really do love you,
you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, okay, I think we
should wrap this up. But asusual, thanks for listening to two book
nets Talking Bros. Challenge is abook about a religious figure or a cult.
(50:04):
It's quite a cool prompt though promptmight be a tad bit controversial.
Let's see. Oh, come on, people are so fascinated because so many
documentaries out right now on all thesecults that you never heard of. Somebody
just shared me a video for theSarah the Sarah Lawrence one. Um,
(50:27):
I do not know though, Ohmy god. Wow. Okay, but
yeah, we also have some prettyexciting news for you TBNT. We'll be
working with AS for their Women's Libraryproject. If you haven't heard about it,
they had one in Singapore last yearand it was amazing. So this
(50:50):
year they're bringing it to Blasia LuckyUS. So this project, they're going
to take three of their flagship storesand basically take all their stock out and
turn the stores into bookstores just fora day, and you can basically just
go and pick out a book thatyou want. How good is that they're
(51:10):
actually choosing women's authors from Malaysia,you know, in all the major languages,
in English, in Malay, andin Chinese. So yeah, you
can get you get a choice ofbooks. You know, it's gonna be
It's amazing because we I think,I think, you know, we haven't
got a lot of chances like thisto really be an advocate for literacy in
(51:34):
this way. And that's why Ithought that. You know, when when
we were offered this, I waslike, oh my god, we gotta
do this. So yeah, sothat's gonna be something that we're gonna be
launching with them soon. You know. Of course they were on Facebook,
get to Woden's stocking on I GTBNTbooks on Twitter at tbnt pot. Yeah.
We leave here with this final word. At the temple, there is
(51:58):
a poem called Loss carved into thestone. It has three words, but
the poet has scratched them out.You cannot read loss, only feel it.
Oh honey, this is so profound. And that is from Memos of
Geisha by Arthur Golden. By everyone, see everyone
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