October 25, 2024 • 39 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Sweden, the country that will pay immigrants thirty
four thousand dollars to go back home.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Why would you even place people to live here. You
placed us in one area and then they just put.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
All the bad things on us. We are like the
skip go.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
So Sweden has never been like this blue, white, blonde country.
Speaker 5 (00:20):
The idea of a national state is old.
Speaker 6 (00:24):
We have as many bombings per capita as in Mexico.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Two people are dead in a NiFe attack at an
Ikea store in Sweden.
Speaker 7 (00:33):
Muhammed upav.
Speaker 8 (00:37):
Unhug my Man.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Sweden began to experience a surge in gang violence, drug trafficking, shootings,
grenade explosions, gang rapes, and other violent crimes when one
hundred and sixty three thousand migrants fled to Sweden during
the refugee crisis in twenty fifteen from countries like Syria,
Afghanistan and Iraq, leading the Swedish public to wonder if
integration was possible and if the benefits of importing third
(01:04):
world migrants were worth the diversity and cheap labor they brought,
with some Swedish politicians using the rise in crime to
argue for less open borders. Others fear it may lead
to unjust vilification of many peaceful, productive migrants seeking a
better life away from their war torn country. But does
multiculturalism work? Does Sweden want more migrants? Are these migrants
(01:24):
trying to assimilate into Swedish society? And what does it
mean to be a Sweden twenty twenty four. Your thoughts
on migration.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
I think it's a.
Speaker 9 (01:33):
Good thing, you know, because some people, like you know,
people from places like for example, Ukraine or Palestine, like
they need somewhere to go. We have like unfortunately, the
like the government in Sweden is a little.
Speaker 10 (01:47):
Bit like racist.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I think you are there any negatives you've observed or
heard of?
Speaker 7 (01:53):
Yeah, of course you see all this shootings and stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
But it's what it is.
Speaker 11 (02:02):
Sweden is a very interesting place for multiculturalism. I lived
here in twenty twelve and it was very homogeneous at
that time. I noticed this is my first time back
in twelve years, and I noticed that it's become a
little bit more diverse. I'm not sure necessarily how Swedes
feel about that diversity.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
What specifically do Swedish people gain from the importation of
Third world migrants?
Speaker 12 (02:23):
I mean, I work in the healthcare system, and I
have colleagues coming from all over the world who work
and we need those people. So for the moment, birth
rates are going down and we really need to even
out the population pyramid.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I think Sweden has an obligation to let people from
other places in. I'ld say a refugee, yes, yeah, yeah,
why we.
Speaker 13 (02:47):
At least did have the finances. I think that we
should be a helpful country. I think it's important to
be open, but I also think that we need to
take to be responsible to the people that we are
coming to this country to make them integrate as good
as possibly can be done.
Speaker 12 (03:05):
I think the general idea and now in this country
is that we want to be more reluctant in that
thing into much because we've seen how things can escalate.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
The remigration concept, I'm sure you've heard of it.
Speaker 10 (03:18):
I don't think that's going to work.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
If you think it will be effective. Will people go
home if offered the sufficient amount?
Speaker 7 (03:26):
I don't think so.
Speaker 10 (03:27):
Okay, I don't think so.
Speaker 7 (03:28):
Depends on what country, and I mean it's always.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Workings a little more nuanced, right exactly.
Speaker 14 (03:34):
I've heard that they are enacting some new things. They're
trying to with like paying some people to leave. I
think they have lots of room and lots of opportunity
to spend their money in better ways. And I think
it's already hard with getting like a personal number and
things here. So I think there's a lot more that
can be done for immigrants coming to Sweden.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Why is diversity good in your.
Speaker 13 (03:57):
Opinion, I think we need skills and confidence from other countries.
I also think that we need we do get a
lot of benefits from other cultural aspects.
Speaker 7 (04:07):
Food.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
What are your thoughts on multiculturalism here in Sweden.
Speaker 7 (04:10):
Yeah, it's like a big melting pot.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Does it work? Well, yeah, it works. Consider yourself a Swede? No? No,
why not?
Speaker 7 (04:18):
Different culture? I have different culture.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
What does it mean to be Swedish?
Speaker 15 (04:24):
In my opinion, Swedish means to be open, to be
interested in internationalism.
Speaker 16 (04:33):
I think that we should be more welcoming and like
trying to get them into the society, because now it's
more like they get cast out into these psych cities
outside the city and they get all like bundled up there.
The government are like, oh my god, there's criminality going on.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Is there criminality or is that myth?
Speaker 5 (04:55):
It's a big problem.
Speaker 9 (04:56):
Yeah, but I think it's because these people don't get
like integrated into society, so they have to do certain
things to like survive and get money because the government
doesn't help them.
Speaker 8 (05:04):
I think you really know there's thousands of them coming well, five, six, seven,
eighty years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah that much.
Speaker 8 (05:11):
Yes, of course we couldn't take care of them.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Do you think these people that are coming to Sweden
are trying to integrate or not trying to integrate.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
That depends on what culture they come from. In the
eighties or seventies, there comes a lot of Indians from Africa.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
They have been integrated very well. Well, first of all,
where you're from.
Speaker 17 (05:33):
From Nigeria, I kep to study by PhD the Barttern
of Economic History and International Relations.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You've been here for seven years now, seven years you
feel Swedish.
Speaker 7 (05:42):
Not fully yet. I don't speak good Swedish yet.
Speaker 17 (05:46):
But the other thing also is that you know, the
Swedish community is not as open as many other communities.
Speaker 7 (05:51):
The access sometimes is not there.
Speaker 17 (05:53):
You have friends that you come to maybe meet at
workplace or in school and things like that, but I
don't think it goes beyond that. In most cases the
bond is not usually there like that.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Do you think as an outsider it's tougher to integrate here?
Speaker 7 (06:08):
I think?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So what are your thoughts on immigrants coming to Sweden?
Good or bad thing? I really like it.
Speaker 7 (06:14):
My wife's from Columbia.
Speaker 15 (06:15):
Okay, Yeah, multiculturalism has made Sweden a better place compared
to what it was like when I was growing up.
Speaker 7 (06:21):
So I'm only favor.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Do you think of multiculturalism here in Sweden works?
Speaker 17 (06:26):
This is a very tough question because it has pros
and cons. I have seen so many people that think
that multiculturalism is diluting in on the Swedish culture. However,
what I know as somebody that is a research is
that culture is not static. Culture is dynamic. There are
some things that even in Sweden now Swedish people used
to do fifty years ago that when people do now
(06:48):
to be appalling.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
Sure, and this is what it is. Things are always changing.
Speaker 17 (06:52):
Multiculturalism has some advantages in that program. Someone like me
that is that came for a PhD. I consider have
to be an expert at least in my field, and
that is an addition to Sweden. And there are so
many that will bring their experiences very smart people that
can contribute to the system. At the same time you
have people that constitute nuisance within the system. These sort
(07:16):
of people are not limited to the migrant community, because
you find very people with misdemino so to speak.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Our lives are so integrated without the countries.
Speaker 13 (07:26):
So I think small countries especially are really depending on migration.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So is it currently working?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Not as good as I think it can. It can do.
Speaker 18 (07:38):
It's developed the society, I think to learn from different cultures.
I think we have a lot to thank multicultural for actually,
like the food cultural it gives you a job opportunities.
Speaker 19 (07:50):
Yeah, I love multi cultural. I think it works, and
I love diversity. I mean, I mean the whole Swedish
culture is based on immigration and migration from all the countries.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
And yeah, and if I were to move here to Sweden,
could I become Swedish?
Speaker 7 (08:05):
Yeah, I'd say so, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 19 (08:08):
But the thing is if that's just because you're American,
if you were from another country or you wouldn't be welcome.
But since you're American and highly educated, no, no, that's.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
What I came from Somalia. Would I be welcomed.
Speaker 19 (08:21):
If you were to be so many they would put
you in like the ghetto.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
And again it would put me there or I would
move there because.
Speaker 18 (08:28):
We move there.
Speaker 19 (08:29):
And since the financial issue in Sweden, like it's not
very good right now, you would have to learn Swedish
and then the society would look down upon.
Speaker 7 (08:37):
You or it looked down on you.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Marginalization, yes, and then you think it's no.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
I agree.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
I understand where he's coming from.
Speaker 9 (08:46):
And definitely there is an issue in Sweden that we
have to work on.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I'm happy you're talking about this because.
Speaker 19 (08:54):
It's something that that needs to be said. It's important
to get light on.
Speaker 7 (08:58):
Yeah, but it's easy to look at Sweden.
Speaker 19 (09:00):
Oh, such a beautiful country.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
It's very pretty, it is.
Speaker 19 (09:03):
I love Sweden, but I mean, you can tell I'm
not typical Swedish, but I feel ill fit in. It's
about how you grow up.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Can we get a dance before? Can we see you guys?
There we go, There we go, the wonders of multiculturalism.
So I headed to Rinkaby, the infamous no go zone
where the sixty Minutes camera crew got attacked and this
guy fought back in his wheelchair. With ninety one percent
of Rinkaby's population immigrants as of twenty eighteen. It's a
symbol of the parallel societies in Sweden, where migrants seem
(09:33):
to live in an entirely different world than the rest
of their Swedish neighbors, and some say it represents the
problems that arise when migrants do not properly integrate into
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Now let's go to Rinkabe. Is it actually dangerous? It is?
Speaker 10 (10:48):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Okay, what's going on there?
Speaker 20 (10:50):
You have the open drug selling.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I'm sure you have the multiple gangs. That's where the
Swedish gangs are to some extent. Yeah, we talked some
people out here. Excuse me, question for you? Where are
you from? Where are you from? Are you from Sweden?
Where are you from? Acting country? Okay, okay, we got
(11:16):
a shop right here. We're basically in a little Middle
Eastern community. It seems like all right, So rumor has
it we're in a no go zone. Obviously we've gone.
The question is will we go back home in one piece?
Where are they from? Why did they come here? How
is life? Let's go find out how long have you
lived in Rinkaby for about a year? Okay, where are
you from?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Originally I'm from Syria, but I have lived inc which
is very close to here.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So yeah, okay, so you're born and raised here in Sweden.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
No, I came here in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So from Syria.
Speaker 21 (11:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So how's your experience been in Sweden as an Assyrian?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Well it was fine.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I grew up here, so it feels like natural being
Swede from Sweden.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I was young, so I don't really know that. I
didn't have that tough experience or so. But yeah, it's
a nice place.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Actually, before I moved here, I heard that that it
was like the hood, right, yeah exactly, But no, I
wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I like rinkib call it azone. Is that accurate? I mean,
we're here, right, it's totally not.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I go to the gym like at ten o'clock at night.
It's fine. As long as you're not involved in the
gangs and so on, you're fine.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I would say, is this a sort of parallel society
as they call it? A different world within a world
sort of thing?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
They want it to be like that? Actually, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Would say they act.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Like the no no, we want you to be involved
and be.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
A part of the society. But why would you even
place people to live here?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
You placed us in one area and then they just
put all them bad things on us.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
We are like the scapegoat. Basically we sell the drugs.
They buy them. But if they wouldn't buy, we wouldn't sell.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Do people have economic opportunity outside of some of this
criminality like the drug selling or our young men kind
of like Okay, I guess I'll go to sell drugs.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Well, Sweden have a free education.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You can become a doctrine and you get money from
CSN for example for studying. I get four thousand crowns.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Every month become a doctor.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, every month, so it's like four hundred dollars you
get money study.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Exactly why are people getting involved in gangst Well, I.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Think that they have a different background, people from like
war and things like that. And many kids grow up
here with no passion. Schools doesn't have any type of
like good education that discipline kids.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
They don't have that.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Why come to Sweden? If if the Swedens aren't let's
say welcoming, and.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Because well, our countries people are suffering there as you
see now in Gaza people are dying basically.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I guess my question is why Sweden specifically and not
maybe a neighboring like UAE or Middle Eastern country.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Would say because the u and so on, they didn't
open doors. Actually they are Muslim countries and they are
our people somehow, but they didn't.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Open their doors. It was Sweden and Germany.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Where are you from originally? Are you from Palestine?
Speaker 16 (14:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Okay? How do you like Sweden? Yo? Good? Are they
welcoming to refugees? Yo?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I am even drive bus?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Drive bus?
Speaker 7 (14:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And you've been here for how long?
Speaker 7 (14:27):
Twenty years?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Twenty years? Do you plan on staying in Sweden forever?
Speaker 8 (14:33):
No?
Speaker 18 (14:34):
Not no, not not because the Boltique.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
This is the new politics are bad?
Speaker 5 (14:42):
This is different?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
How so bad?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
In what ways?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Everything?
Speaker 1 (14:47):
So? Immigration?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yo?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Are they treat you? Not for me?
Speaker 22 (14:52):
I have Medboria you're in I'm from Sweden, Serbia and prouf.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Okay? Are you born raised here in Sweden? What are
your thoughts on Rinka?
Speaker 22 (14:59):
Be my thoughts in that sense?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 22 (15:02):
It's a beautiful place in some senses, but I think
every place has its problems.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
What are some of the good things about the place,
what are some of the bad things things?
Speaker 22 (15:08):
I would say, like, it's very common for people to
really get to know each other. It's very family like
we normally accept people from other places. I think many
people have bad thoughts about the space, Yes, because it's
a place where maybe it's very mixture with the cultures,
and I think people normally have the tendency to really
give this place a shot, like a really good chance.
(15:30):
And I think if people would do that, it would
get along with people living here. I think people already
have racist thoughts about this place.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I think that we are involved in the society.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Many Zerians educate and go to universities and so on.
So I'm not saying that the immigrants is very like
not doing bad things. They are and they maybe they
aren't like following the rules and so on, but the
government could do better.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Well, what's one change you'd like to see in the government.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Don'tant to spread propaganda on social media about US immigrants
being the like the people who kill and so on.
Because when it's a Swedish, a Swedish Man who commits
a rape, they said a man, well it's a black man,
they would put his name or something that shows you
that he is not sweet from Sweden. So yeah, I
don't think that we are committing more crimes from sweets
(16:17):
because they do commit crimes, but the media doesn't.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Show why there's so many shootings here.
Speaker 22 (16:22):
Gang crimes.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, why do people from your understanding or speculation get
involved in gangs out here?
Speaker 22 (16:28):
I would say the main reason maybe you cannot pay bills.
I don't think everyone chooses to do distincts.
Speaker 7 (16:35):
And also I'd be like going down the road, you fucked.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
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bucks a month. A lot of hetero genius cultures. Here
(17:01):
we had Kocab, East African products, Thai sushi. So we're
in Rinkabee and here we are this is what the
famous spot where the wheelchair guy drove into the dude
attacking the boom mic operator. So we're noticing, just do
a pan you know, every walk of life. We're saying,
So we got a cool eplank market here, we have
palasing cola. This is truly a melting power wit and saying.
It reminds me of New York in a lot of ways.
(17:22):
And last but not least, the Islamic Culture Center. We're
in front of the police station of Rinkabe. You tell
me some of the problems and difficulties they faced building
this place.
Speaker 20 (17:30):
Yeah, so when they started building this place a couple
of years ago, the construction workers got attacked and they
had a really hard time also getting the stuff here
because of like roadblocks and stuff. So were they getting
attacked by like local gangs and gang members.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
They didn't want a police station right in the heart
of Rinkaby. Yeah, for obvious reasons. Yeah, for obvious seasons.
Speaker 20 (17:49):
You know, at some point you perhaps also could understand
that from a criminal point of view, you know, having
a prestation like this also quite big, you could understand that,
of course on this building have like fireproof walls from
the outside as well to not like be able to
throw molotov cocktails.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And starts, fireproof, bulletproof, driveproof.
Speaker 12 (18:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 20 (18:09):
Why because we are in rinkiby, and.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
This is a fortress for looking at right here.
Speaker 20 (18:13):
And so what they also do is they escort police
from here and to words. So for example, if you're
a local policeman here and you arrest someone here at
the center, then then you go back here, change uniform
and you know, walk to the subway station with police guards.
Speaker 10 (18:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
The police themselves are afraid of getting attacked after they
do their job and arrest people here.
Speaker 20 (18:32):
Yeah, and that's why they got escorted from here.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
But I wanted to hear from an immigrant who moved
to Sweden when she was twenty, I became the first
black police officer in Sweden. Is integration possible? And why
are so many migrant youth turning to a life of crime?
And weren't a big police compound this place is fortified?
Why is that?
Speaker 21 (18:50):
I mean? And it starts with like for maybe ten
years ago, we have a community policing and we have
small stations and then one day I'm on to granade
on the building and then the politicians decided that we
should be a huge policician that will be in Rinky.
If I became police officer two thousand and six, right,
(19:12):
so between two thousand and six, two thousand and fifteen
forty everything.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Was cool here.
Speaker 21 (19:18):
You have a more small crimes like I don't know,
bergley and theft, you know, those small things. After twenty fifteen,
then we start the gang violence in Sweden and then
we have certain groups whos start to build kind of
gang what they call themselves. We're having shooting before in
(19:40):
so Deitalia where we have immigrant for Middle Is, but
Christian immigrants from Middle East who also build them their
own you know, kind of gang. It's more like mafia,
I mean burning cars, you know, like shooting a throwing
stone on the police officers. But now from twenty twenty one,
now everything's quiet here because we were not like sitting
(20:03):
down and watching them, you.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Know what I mean that from twenty fifteen during the
refugee crisis, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 21 (20:12):
Most of the people say that it's because of the refugees.
But I can say because most of the people who
are in the gang valley, most of them born here
in Sweden and they came to Sweden for many years ago.
They are not like the new I migrant.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
These are second gen children of immigrants.
Speaker 21 (20:27):
Of course, of course, those youths they have to feel
that they're part of the society. They are Swedish too.
You cannot give a person identity at the same time
making the person feeling that you're not a part of
the society because you look different in living in the
area when most of them are immigrant. How can you
be a part of society if you don't know the rules,
(20:49):
you don't know the culture, you're not learning anything.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
If I were a kid, and if I were to
throw a grenade into this room, for instance, what could
you do as a police officer? And then how the
courts take me in As let's say a thirteen year old,
I mean a thirteen year old.
Speaker 21 (21:03):
I mean, nothing's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Nothing will happen. Take me in the custody, and we.
Speaker 21 (21:08):
Don't want to take the castle. It will take you
and the I mean the social will take over the
whole investigation a young man in the kind of to
call it, or it's a kind of it's not really jail,
but it's more like a place where they get educated.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Or even if I were to throw a grenade at
a police officer.
Speaker 21 (21:29):
That's just that's the system in Sweden. I say that
they should throw them to jail, and they have to learn.
If you throw a hand granade, you can get ten
years old if it caught you with the arm again,
ten years old. If you sit down there, you're going
to start to think. At the same time, the government
have to prepare. But what's happening in Sweden is like
you throw it in the prison and then after we
(21:51):
get out, we don't have anything to go.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Whether you go you go back to your friends, sure,
and then you throw another hand grenade or shoot someone else.
Speaker 21 (21:56):
Oh, because your parents are from another country, you have
to learn Swedish too. Why Swedish too? Why don't I
study Swedish as my Swedish?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Okay, Swedish is taking these young children who are born
here to learn Swedish as their second language exactly. And
they're born in Sweden, yes, but they're never gonna truly
feel Swedish axactly.
Speaker 21 (22:15):
They try to do that with me. My father came
to the school and say, hey.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
What can let's say an immigrant is coming here to
Sweden right now? Can they become Swedish? Can they integrate
into the society?
Speaker 21 (22:25):
They can if you make it easy for them, give
them the tools, make it easy for them, let the
parents to be parents. They have also to tell us
immigrant coming here, Okay, if you come to my country,
this is the law. No one is telling you. Everyone
is going to the suburb. How do we know about
what we have to do? You have to tell me
this is the law, we wanted to follow it. Now
they are saying that as even they're still saying that,
(22:47):
but they're not telling what to do either. They have
to be proud themselves about their own culture before they
can introduce that culture to me. If they don't know
the culture themselves, how can they introduce the culture to
me as a foreigner. They have to know who they
are first before they tell us who we.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Are or who they want you to be, who they want.
Speaker 21 (23:06):
Us to be. As in Swedish, what's the Swedish culture?
They will say yes, openness, open standing, Q, that's not
the culture. They can't define their own culture.
Speaker 20 (23:16):
Desegregation in these countries. What you're seeing in many different
places like this. We were just visiting like central Stockholm
the other day and there is saw a whole other picture.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Totally different, totally different. This is entirely Middle Eastern and
African people in Sweden. Because you guys, lot the men
and you guys welcome them.
Speaker 20 (23:34):
Yeah, we had the prime ministers talking on national television
to open our hearts and to be accepting. Sure you did,
yeah for almost forty years perhaps.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
And now you're paying some of these people thirty four
thousand USD to go back. Is that the idea?
Speaker 20 (23:51):
Yeah, the current government has imposed like an amount of
money to return back or it got quite big in
Sweden with multiple headlines of a full plane going back
to Iraq.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
After hearing from RISA, I met up with Marcus the
chairman of the Conservative student union at University of Stockholm,
Bilan Osman, a Muslim activist, journalist, and tewod Gen Somalian
immigrants in RV, a spokesman from a conservative think tank
o eCos, to see if they too thought it was
the government's fault that migrant youth are struggling to integrate.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Sweden has always had minorities. Sweden portray itself as how
they say it like hormogenus a country whereas everyone is
like white and blonde as a wund But there has
been minorities in Sweden for like centuries. So Sweden has
never been like this blue, white, blonde country. But in
(24:44):
like the nineteen thirties we had a lot of migration,
mainly because of word the last decades because of the
of the wars. But in the beginning of nineties Sweden
became a kind of racist country.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
We from the race biology instea to.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Where you measure people's heads, even serilized minorities.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
We are the people themselves trying to integrate themselves in
the society. Where's the disconnect?
Speaker 15 (25:11):
Yeah, well, of course a lot of them actually all
integrating society.
Speaker 10 (25:15):
That would be righteous to say.
Speaker 15 (25:18):
And the government is trying, but they have for a
long time try to just throw many at money at
these places.
Speaker 10 (25:23):
But for some.
Speaker 15 (25:24):
Reason they are not being able to integrate anyways.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Why is that?
Speaker 10 (25:29):
Yeah, I don't think they want to integrate.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I think that stands.
Speaker 15 (25:31):
But they came Sweeten for the economical incentives. They didn't
come here to become sweets. So I think a lot
of people their own background is quite solid they want
to keep that as well. For example, something obvious in
these days that we cannot take in infinitive number of
new people from a different culture, right, you have to
have this integration assimilation process that was highly controversial in
(25:54):
Sweden for like fifteen years ago. So we're having this
political thinking which is not controversial at all really in
the Parliament already through the Swedish Democrats stuff.
Speaker 10 (26:06):
And they're not far all right people at all.
Speaker 15 (26:09):
Everyone is concerned about the criminality that's coming up through
the second and first generation migrants.
Speaker 10 (26:15):
So everyone is very concerned in.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Well, in a way we're trying to rediscover what Swedish
conservatism is. One can say at least that what has
really rejuvenated Swedish conservatism the impulse which has made it
relevant again is an opposition to uncontrolled immigration, which has
been the dominant political issue in Sweden for now these
fifteen years. There are many different kinds of negative effects
(26:38):
of uncontrolled thir world mass immigration. One obvious is crime.
Today we have a gangsterism in Sweden like interwar Chicago.
We have as many bombings per capita as in Mexico.
So and Sweden used to be a very very safe country.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
There's a bunch of studies about this.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
If your name Muhammad, let's say Fatima, then you have
the lesser chance to get a job or get a
buy a house. That doesn't mean that's because your name
is Fatima. Muhammad, your life will suck. But there's been
a lot of studies when it comes to the racist
(27:17):
culture in Sweden. We have a tendency to not acknowledge
that racism exist in Sweden because of you said that
Sweden has always been welcoming towards refugees, and that's kind
of true in some sense.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
I think that that.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Has also been like an excuse to not acknowledge the
racis society that will live.
Speaker 6 (27:39):
In Swedish media was that if you opposed immigration on
any ground, that means you're a racist. Even if you
said that there might be some potential downside, you're a racist.
Swedish public debate is like a school of fish, right,
so everyone changes position at the same time. So now
everyone is kind of opposed to this. But until twenty fifteen,
this and that's why the Sweden Democrats grew so much.
(28:01):
They had a monopoly on saying that immigration could possibly be.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
A bad thing.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
Now you have like five parties who say that bad
or you know, not too good, so there's for more
competition in that way. I saw some some data from
the economists today. This was not from Sweden, from Denmark,
but it should be pretty much the same. They had
looked at the fiscal effects of immigration from different parts
of the world, but the average effect from an immigrant
(28:25):
from the Middle East and North Africa was that they
were a fiscal burden throughout their life, even and this
is important even in their prime working age.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Do you think migrants from Muslim countries are integrating well
into Sweden and is Sweden helping them integrate into Sweden?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
I actually I'm kind of allergic to the integration Telly.
Why the only way to adapt to a society is
that you get the chance to have a job, to
have good education.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
That's for me, it's like integration.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
But in the Swedish society we are more talking about
as simil that people that are coming to Sweden has
to change the way they are and that's problematic. People
don't have to have one identity, they can have multiple.
Like a couple of days ago, we had a it
was a debate in Sweden between the part of leaders
(29:16):
and the leader for the christ Democrats said that Islam
doesn't always adapt to Swedish values.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
What does that mean? I'm a Swedish Muslim, in which way.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Is there conflict between Islam and Sweden.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
That's a false narrative. And that's the problem with the society.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
You think some of the laws are precepts in the Quran,
and the precepts of Islam conflict with Swedish society and
Swedish law.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
First of all, if you look at the world population,
one fourth is Muslims. The way someone see Islam in Afghanistan,
or in Somalia, or in Iran, or in in Sweden
is obviously different. We have lots of different interpretations of
(30:06):
what Islam is. I don't believe in the concept that
Islam is one thing that has a conflict with Western values.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
So Swedes have i think, a much harder way grappling
with an understanding Islam than people would do having in
the US or in Poland, where people actually still believe
in God. For Swedes, Islam is just some superficial thing.
It's like, yeah, you know, they don't drink alcohol, but
maybe there are Swedes who don't.
Speaker 10 (30:31):
Drink alcohol either.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
The fact that people would actually care deeply about religion
is an alien idea to many Swedes. People didn't imagine
at all that we would have a large number of
masques in Sweden, or maybe it would be a temporary
thing because Muslims should stop being Muslims, because why would
they be Muslims.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So the expectation was these Muslim migrants would leave their
religion behind and become truly Swedish.
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Yeah, I imagine.
Speaker 15 (30:54):
So, so, for example, we have a big issue in
Sweden with rapes sexual assault and they are coming from
first generation migrants, but also having a big issue with
gang criminals, which is completely unique to Sweden. We haven't
had that before and that is a result of the
second generation of migrants not integrating in Swedish society.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
So why do you think second generation non ethnically Swedish
youth are becoming members of gangs and committing crimes disproportionately.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
There's individual factors when it comes to mental health or
that you many of them have edit G or have
had trouble in school. That doesn't mean that everyone that
come from like a single household or from a poor
environment or have EDHD will go into gang ViOS.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
But we have a huge problem.
Speaker 15 (31:42):
I think it's so for example, they are growing up
in an environment which is not there are no incentives
to get involved in the majority of society, and they're
living in these clusters with people from their own culture, right,
so they feel not feeling that they are belonging to
the Swedish society. Therefore there are growth having a growing
resentment to the Swedish culture.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Why is a one specific group acting disproportionately in a
certain manner.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
So that's why the question in itself doesn't tell. So
if we're talking about how can social services be better
in having contact.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
With the schools that young children are, that's a solution.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Or how can like the law informants, how can they
have a better communication with social services, And.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
That's a solution.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
We have already one hundred years ago agreed as an
international community that there are not different races. You are
not born with some kind of qualities that is in
line with your skin color or your religion and so on.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
We don't have any most.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Impact when it comes to gang violence is that non
white people in the suburbian places where those kind of shootings.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
Are going on, they are the biggest victims.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Will they killing each other?
Speaker 5 (33:02):
Is not killing each other?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Is it's like who's killing them?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Criminals that are attacking people in our society or.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
These criminals predominantly, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
I don't have any kind of sathicists to say that.
Speaker 6 (33:15):
Gangs these are I wouldn't say one hundred percent immigrants
or the children of immigrants, but maybe ninety five, ninety nine,
ninety eight percent something like that. Now, this doesn't mean
that indigenous suites never commit any crimes at all. They
certainly do many crimes, especially violent crime, sexual crime. There
is a very strong overrepresentation I'm on a certain immigrant groups.
(33:35):
I would say that people who commit less crimes, so
for example, Vietnamese immigrants, Southeast Asian ones, Thai, certainly Japanese, Chinese,
while you have very strong overrepresentation when we're talking about
groups from Middle East, North Africa Africa. Twenty five years
so it's come up. We've had about two million immigrants
come to Sweden. If these had been two million Norwegians,
we wouldn't have this discussion today.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Do you think Sweden has an obligation to help refugees?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Has that because after the Second World War a lot
of countries decided to adapt to the United Nations Declaration
on Human Rights, and one of those human rights is
that every person and every.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Human being has a value. Every human being has.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
The right to see.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Asylum YEA and nothing has changed.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
But the only thing that has changed in Europe is
that we are heading to more and more fascist and
nationalists kind of politics in Europe.
Speaker 15 (34:33):
But their question is why do they go through like
fifteen countries to come to Sweden. That's my question exactly.
So both I think there are huge economical incentives to
come here to Sweden, obviously, but they can do that
through the ACYL process as well.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
This idea from the sixties, right, we should have a
lot of foreign aid, we should care about the Third World,
but we should care about Nicaragua, and we should care
about Somali iron with in all these countries far away.
Why well, because that was virtuous. They used to say
that Sweden is a humanitarian superpower, and there was this
(35:09):
idea that, you know, Sweden. After World War Two, Sweden,
together with Switzerland and the US, Sweden was the richest
country in the world, and we had this idea, this
feeling that we're actually better than other people.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
We're rich, we're the.
Speaker 6 (35:20):
Best, we have the most progressive, most modern society, we're
the model for the world. And the fact that we
were rich because we had stayed out of World War
Two and didn't have our industries bombed into dust and
could profit from rebuilding all the rest of Europe. Yeah,
people didn't want to think about that part. But this
meant that we were the best and most virtuous people
in the world, the model for the world. Everyone should
(35:40):
be like us.
Speaker 10 (35:41):
We got this idea that.
Speaker 6 (35:43):
Swedishness is not a particular culture. It's not having a
common history, a specific language or anything like that. Now
it means being modern. The Sweden was the most modern
country in the world. And if you immigrate to Sweden
from another country, as soon as you pass the border,
across the border, you become Swedish.
Speaker 20 (36:01):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
The idea of.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
A national state is old. The national state and the
idea doesn't work anymore. Of course, Sweden is small Thai culture.
Sweden works in the bombs. Of course, multiculture is the
only way that the world works. People that are that
are nationalists. I think that they are most more like
(36:24):
nostalgic and thinking about the time that doesn't exist and
haven't existed in a long time.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Their premise.
Speaker 15 (36:30):
People are thinking on that everyone wants to become Swedes right,
and when Swedish people meet other people from different cultures,
they realize that they want don't. They don't want influence
except for food or whatever. It's a joking Sweden. Yeah,
so Swedish people don't want that at all, and not
even the one who actually say believes that they want
to either. They are living on cid Malmeres off of Stockholm,
(36:52):
where everyone is sweets already, hanging out with the Swedish friends,
going to Swedish posy and.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Like Swedish white flight, moving out of neighborhoods that are
being flooded with new migrants. Is that what's happening?
Speaker 10 (37:03):
We have Swedish fly white flight areas Sweteah.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Definitely if I moved here, would you consider me sweet
after a few years of integration.
Speaker 10 (37:10):
I know you are not a Swede, but man, that's
also all right.
Speaker 15 (37:13):
You don't have to be as sweet, right, It's no,
it's not mandatory to be a sweet if someone.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Would get offended by you saying that as my.
Speaker 10 (37:19):
Guest, So yeah, maybe, but I don't care.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
What are your hopes for Sweden in the next twenty years.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
I want it.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
To be more of the Sweden that I love. Sometimes
I miss my own home country. Yeah, like I have
felt like, especially the last twenty years, I would say,
we have had an increase when it comes to crimes,
when it comes to the impact that the right wing
(37:47):
movement has had. I want it to be the democratic
country that I know Sweden is, and there's a whole
anti racist movement here. There are a lot of anti
fascists and this.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Is my comrades.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
And I will cheap on the coping that we will win, because.
Speaker 6 (38:04):
There's an American saying, if you find yourself in a whole,
the first thing you do is stop digging. Right, The
current writing government is very anti immigration right. The main
force of the Swedish left, the Social Democrats, they are
moving in that direction as well, and they're surrounded by
a large native population.
Speaker 10 (38:18):
They will be absorbed somehow.
Speaker 6 (38:19):
But if the immigrants become too many, then they might
very well stay unassimilated in their own communities.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
They're the majority, yeah, in certain areas.
Speaker 6 (38:28):
In certain communities say are definitely the majority, especially because
of segregation. There is one important thing, and that is
the changes we see in Swedish politics today. They are
the biggest changes in Swedish politics for a century. They
are the biggest changes in our political structure since Sweden
became a full democracy.
Speaker 15 (38:45):
I'm quite optimistic for the future in Sweden, but it
will take a long time. You have to come back
in ten fifteen years and I'll cost me again.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
And it's remigration a part of this solution in your opinion, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (38:55):
It will be.
Speaker 15 (38:56):
Yeah, firstly this with economical incentives, but will be forced also,
I'm pretty sure about that.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
When I talk to foreign conservative friends about the changes
in Sweden, they often believe this because it's one thing
when you have the right ruling in Poland, or in
the US or in Slovenia. It's something else entirely when Sweden,
the supposed progressive socialist paradise, turns to the right or
(39:24):
even the hard right, then people really say, wait, what's
going on? Is Sweden perhaps a canary in the coal mine?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
As the world continues to globalize and wealthy nations import
third world migrants for cheap labor to support their lowering
birth rates, and in the name of kindness and diversity,
we should be asking ourselves what is a society and
culture willing to sacrifice of itself to accommodate those it welcomes,
And is a kabab stand in every street corner worth
sacrificing a country's entire culture. What do you think
This is Sweden, the country that will pay immigrants thirty
four thousand dollars to go back home.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Why would you even place people to live here. You
placed us in one area and then they just put.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
All the bad things on us. We are like the
skip go.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
So Sweden has never been like this blue, white, blonde country.
Speaker 5 (00:20):
The idea of a national state is old.
Speaker 6 (00:24):
We have as many bombings per capita as in Mexico.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Two people are dead in a NiFe attack at an
Ikea store in Sweden.
Speaker 7 (00:33):
Muhammed upav.
Speaker 8 (00:37):
Unhug my Man.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Sweden began to experience a surge in gang violence, drug trafficking, shootings,
grenade explosions, gang rapes, and other violent crimes when one
hundred and sixty three thousand migrants fled to Sweden during
the refugee crisis in twenty fifteen from countries like Syria,
Afghanistan and Iraq, leading the Swedish public to wonder if
integration was possible and if the benefits of importing third
(01:04):
world migrants were worth the diversity and cheap labor they brought,
with some Swedish politicians using the rise in crime to
argue for less open borders. Others fear it may lead
to unjust vilification of many peaceful, productive migrants seeking a
better life away from their war torn country. But does
multiculturalism work? Does Sweden want more migrants? Are these migrants
(01:24):
trying to assimilate into Swedish society? And what does it
mean to be a Sweden twenty twenty four. Your thoughts
on migration.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
I think it's a.
Speaker 9 (01:33):
Good thing, you know, because some people, like you know,
people from places like for example, Ukraine or Palestine, like
they need somewhere to go. We have like unfortunately, the
like the government in Sweden is a little.
Speaker 10 (01:47):
Bit like racist.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I think you are there any negatives you've observed or
heard of?
Speaker 7 (01:53):
Yeah, of course you see all this shootings and stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
But it's what it is.
Speaker 11 (02:02):
Sweden is a very interesting place for multiculturalism. I lived
here in twenty twelve and it was very homogeneous at
that time. I noticed this is my first time back
in twelve years, and I noticed that it's become a
little bit more diverse. I'm not sure necessarily how Swedes
feel about that diversity.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
What specifically do Swedish people gain from the importation of
Third world migrants?
Speaker 12 (02:23):
I mean, I work in the healthcare system, and I
have colleagues coming from all over the world who work
and we need those people. So for the moment, birth
rates are going down and we really need to even
out the population pyramid.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I think Sweden has an obligation to let people from
other places in. I'ld say a refugee, yes, yeah, yeah,
why we.
Speaker 13 (02:47):
At least did have the finances. I think that we
should be a helpful country. I think it's important to
be open, but I also think that we need to
take to be responsible to the people that we are
coming to this country to make them integrate as good
as possibly can be done.
Speaker 12 (03:05):
I think the general idea and now in this country
is that we want to be more reluctant in that
thing into much because we've seen how things can escalate.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
The remigration concept, I'm sure you've heard of it.
Speaker 10 (03:18):
I don't think that's going to work.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
If you think it will be effective. Will people go
home if offered the sufficient amount?
Speaker 7 (03:26):
I don't think so.
Speaker 10 (03:27):
Okay, I don't think so.
Speaker 7 (03:28):
Depends on what country, and I mean it's always.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Workings a little more nuanced, right exactly.
Speaker 14 (03:34):
I've heard that they are enacting some new things. They're
trying to with like paying some people to leave. I
think they have lots of room and lots of opportunity
to spend their money in better ways. And I think
it's already hard with getting like a personal number and
things here. So I think there's a lot more that
can be done for immigrants coming to Sweden.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Why is diversity good in your.
Speaker 13 (03:57):
Opinion, I think we need skills and confidence from other countries.
I also think that we need we do get a
lot of benefits from other cultural aspects.
Speaker 7 (04:07):
Food.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
What are your thoughts on multiculturalism here in Sweden.
Speaker 7 (04:10):
Yeah, it's like a big melting pot.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Does it work? Well, yeah, it works. Consider yourself a Swede? No? No,
why not?
Speaker 7 (04:18):
Different culture? I have different culture.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
What does it mean to be Swedish?
Speaker 15 (04:24):
In my opinion, Swedish means to be open, to be
interested in internationalism.
Speaker 16 (04:33):
I think that we should be more welcoming and like
trying to get them into the society, because now it's
more like they get cast out into these psych cities
outside the city and they get all like bundled up there.
The government are like, oh my god, there's criminality going on.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Is there criminality or is that myth?
Speaker 5 (04:55):
It's a big problem.
Speaker 9 (04:56):
Yeah, but I think it's because these people don't get
like integrated into society, so they have to do certain
things to like survive and get money because the government
doesn't help them.
Speaker 8 (05:04):
I think you really know there's thousands of them coming well, five, six, seven,
eighty years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah that much.
Speaker 8 (05:11):
Yes, of course we couldn't take care of them.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Do you think these people that are coming to Sweden
are trying to integrate or not trying to integrate.
Speaker 8 (05:20):
That depends on what culture they come from. In the
eighties or seventies, there comes a lot of Indians from Africa.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
They have been integrated very well. Well, first of all,
where you're from.
Speaker 17 (05:33):
From Nigeria, I kep to study by PhD the Barttern
of Economic History and International Relations.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You've been here for seven years now, seven years you
feel Swedish.
Speaker 7 (05:42):
Not fully yet. I don't speak good Swedish yet.
Speaker 17 (05:46):
But the other thing also is that you know, the
Swedish community is not as open as many other communities.
Speaker 7 (05:51):
The access sometimes is not there.
Speaker 17 (05:53):
You have friends that you come to maybe meet at
workplace or in school and things like that, but I
don't think it goes beyond that. In most cases the
bond is not usually there like that.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Do you think as an outsider it's tougher to integrate here?
Speaker 7 (06:08):
I think?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So what are your thoughts on immigrants coming to Sweden?
Good or bad thing? I really like it.
Speaker 7 (06:14):
My wife's from Columbia.
Speaker 15 (06:15):
Okay, Yeah, multiculturalism has made Sweden a better place compared
to what it was like when I was growing up.
Speaker 7 (06:21):
So I'm only favor.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Do you think of multiculturalism here in Sweden works?
Speaker 17 (06:26):
This is a very tough question because it has pros
and cons. I have seen so many people that think
that multiculturalism is diluting in on the Swedish culture. However,
what I know as somebody that is a research is
that culture is not static. Culture is dynamic. There are
some things that even in Sweden now Swedish people used
to do fifty years ago that when people do now
(06:48):
to be appalling.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
Sure, and this is what it is. Things are always changing.
Speaker 17 (06:52):
Multiculturalism has some advantages in that program. Someone like me
that is that came for a PhD. I consider have
to be an expert at least in my field, and
that is an addition to Sweden. And there are so
many that will bring their experiences very smart people that
can contribute to the system. At the same time you
have people that constitute nuisance within the system. These sort
(07:16):
of people are not limited to the migrant community, because
you find very people with misdemino so to speak.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Our lives are so integrated without the countries.
Speaker 13 (07:26):
So I think small countries especially are really depending on migration.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So is it currently working?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
Not as good as I think it can. It can do.
Speaker 18 (07:38):
It's developed the society, I think to learn from different cultures.
I think we have a lot to thank multicultural for actually,
like the food cultural it gives you a job opportunities.
Speaker 19 (07:50):
Yeah, I love multi cultural. I think it works, and
I love diversity. I mean, I mean the whole Swedish
culture is based on immigration and migration from all the countries.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
And yeah, and if I were to move here to Sweden,
could I become Swedish?
Speaker 7 (08:05):
Yeah, I'd say so, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 19 (08:08):
But the thing is if that's just because you're American,
if you were from another country or you wouldn't be welcome.
But since you're American and highly educated, no, no, that's.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
What I came from Somalia. Would I be welcomed.
Speaker 19 (08:21):
If you were to be so many they would put
you in like the ghetto.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
And again it would put me there or I would
move there because.
Speaker 18 (08:28):
We move there.
Speaker 19 (08:29):
And since the financial issue in Sweden, like it's not
very good right now, you would have to learn Swedish
and then the society would look down upon.
Speaker 7 (08:37):
You or it looked down on you.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Marginalization, yes, and then you think it's no.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
I agree.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
I understand where he's coming from.
Speaker 9 (08:46):
And definitely there is an issue in Sweden that we
have to work on.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I'm happy you're talking about this because.
Speaker 19 (08:54):
It's something that that needs to be said. It's important
to get light on.
Speaker 7 (08:58):
Yeah, but it's easy to look at Sweden.
Speaker 19 (09:00):
Oh, such a beautiful country.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
It's very pretty, it is.
Speaker 19 (09:03):
I love Sweden, but I mean, you can tell I'm
not typical Swedish, but I feel ill fit in. It's
about how you grow up.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Can we get a dance before? Can we see you guys?
There we go, There we go, the wonders of multiculturalism.
So I headed to Rinkaby, the infamous no go zone
where the sixty Minutes camera crew got attacked and this
guy fought back in his wheelchair. With ninety one percent
of Rinkaby's population immigrants as of twenty eighteen. It's a
symbol of the parallel societies in Sweden, where migrants seem
(09:33):
to live in an entirely different world than the rest
of their Swedish neighbors, and some say it represents the
problems that arise when migrants do not properly integrate into
Swedish society. But real quick, did you know two point
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(09:56):
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Now let's go to Rinkabe. Is it actually dangerous? It is?
Speaker 10 (10:48):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Okay, what's going on there?
Speaker 20 (10:50):
You have the open drug selling.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I'm sure you have the multiple gangs. That's where the
Swedish gangs are to some extent. Yeah, we talked some
people out here. Excuse me, question for you? Where are
you from? Where are you from? Are you from Sweden?
Where are you from? Acting country? Okay, okay, we got
(11:16):
a shop right here. We're basically in a little Middle
Eastern community. It seems like all right, So rumor has
it we're in a no go zone. Obviously we've gone.
The question is will we go back home in one piece?
Where are they from? Why did they come here? How
is life? Let's go find out how long have you
lived in Rinkaby for about a year? Okay, where are
you from?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Originally I'm from Syria, but I have lived inc which
is very close to here.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So yeah, okay, so you're born and raised here in Sweden.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
No, I came here in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So from Syria.
Speaker 21 (11:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So how's your experience been in Sweden as an Assyrian?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Well it was fine.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I grew up here, so it feels like natural being
Swede from Sweden.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I was young, so I don't really know that. I
didn't have that tough experience or so. But yeah, it's
a nice place.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Actually, before I moved here, I heard that that it
was like the hood, right, yeah exactly, But no, I
wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I like rinkib call it azone. Is that accurate? I mean,
we're here, right, it's totally not.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I go to the gym like at ten o'clock at night.
It's fine. As long as you're not involved in the
gangs and so on, you're fine.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I would say, is this a sort of parallel society
as they call it? A different world within a world
sort of thing?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
They want it to be like that? Actually, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Would say they act.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Like the no no, we want you to be involved
and be.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
A part of the society. But why would you even
place people to live here?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
You placed us in one area and then they just
put all them bad things on us.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
We are like the scapegoat. Basically we sell the drugs.
They buy them. But if they wouldn't buy, we wouldn't sell.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Do people have economic opportunity outside of some of this
criminality like the drug selling or our young men kind
of like Okay, I guess I'll go to sell drugs.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Well, Sweden have a free education.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You can become a doctrine and you get money from
CSN for example for studying. I get four thousand crowns.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Every month become a doctor.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, every month, so it's like four hundred dollars you
get money study.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Exactly why are people getting involved in gangst Well, I.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Think that they have a different background, people from like
war and things like that. And many kids grow up
here with no passion. Schools doesn't have any type of
like good education that discipline kids.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
They don't have that.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Why come to Sweden? If if the Swedens aren't let's
say welcoming, and.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Because well, our countries people are suffering there as you
see now in Gaza people are dying basically.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I guess my question is why Sweden specifically and not
maybe a neighboring like UAE or Middle Eastern country.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Would say because the u and so on, they didn't
open doors. Actually they are Muslim countries and they are
our people somehow, but they didn't.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Open their doors. It was Sweden and Germany.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Where are you from originally? Are you from Palestine?
Speaker 16 (14:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Okay? How do you like Sweden? Yo? Good? Are they
welcoming to refugees? Yo?
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I am even drive bus?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Drive bus?
Speaker 7 (14:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And you've been here for how long?
Speaker 7 (14:27):
Twenty years?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Twenty years? Do you plan on staying in Sweden forever?
Speaker 8 (14:33):
No?
Speaker 18 (14:34):
Not no, not not because the Boltique.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
This is the new politics are bad?
Speaker 5 (14:42):
This is different?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
How so bad?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
In what ways?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Everything?
Speaker 1 (14:47):
So? Immigration?
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yo?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Are they treat you? Not for me?
Speaker 22 (14:52):
I have Medboria you're in I'm from Sweden, Serbia and prouf.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Okay? Are you born raised here in Sweden? What are
your thoughts on Rinka?
Speaker 22 (14:59):
Be my thoughts in that sense?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 22 (15:02):
It's a beautiful place in some senses, but I think
every place has its problems.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
What are some of the good things about the place,
what are some of the bad things things?
Speaker 22 (15:08):
I would say, like, it's very common for people to
really get to know each other. It's very family like
we normally accept people from other places. I think many
people have bad thoughts about the space, Yes, because it's
a place where maybe it's very mixture with the cultures,
and I think people normally have the tendency to really
give this place a shot, like a really good chance.
(15:30):
And I think if people would do that, it would
get along with people living here. I think people already
have racist thoughts about this place.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I think that we are involved in the society.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Many Zerians educate and go to universities and so on.
So I'm not saying that the immigrants is very like
not doing bad things. They are and they maybe they
aren't like following the rules and so on, but the
government could do better.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Well, what's one change you'd like to see in the government.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Don'tant to spread propaganda on social media about US immigrants
being the like the people who kill and so on.
Because when it's a Swedish, a Swedish Man who commits
a rape, they said a man, well it's a black man,
they would put his name or something that shows you
that he is not sweet from Sweden. So yeah, I
don't think that we are committing more crimes from sweets
(16:17):
because they do commit crimes, but the media doesn't.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Show why there's so many shootings here.
Speaker 22 (16:22):
Gang crimes.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, why do people from your understanding or speculation get
involved in gangs out here?
Speaker 22 (16:28):
I would say the main reason maybe you cannot pay bills.
I don't think everyone chooses to do distincts.
Speaker 7 (16:35):
And also I'd be like going down the road, you fucked.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
If you want to support our boots on the ground,
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(17:01):
we had Kocab, East African products, Thai sushi. So we're
in Rinkabee and here we are this is what the
famous spot where the wheelchair guy drove into the dude
attacking the boom mic operator. So we're noticing, just do
a pan you know, every walk of life. We're saying,
So we got a cool eplank market here, we have
palasing cola. This is truly a melting power wit and saying.
It reminds me of New York in a lot of ways.
(17:22):
And last but not least, the Islamic Culture Center. We're
in front of the police station of Rinkabe. You tell
me some of the problems and difficulties they faced building
this place.
Speaker 20 (17:30):
Yeah, so when they started building this place a couple
of years ago, the construction workers got attacked and they
had a really hard time also getting the stuff here
because of like roadblocks and stuff. So were they getting
attacked by like local gangs and gang members.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
They didn't want a police station right in the heart
of Rinkaby. Yeah, for obvious reasons. Yeah, for obvious seasons.
Speaker 20 (17:49):
You know, at some point you perhaps also could understand
that from a criminal point of view, you know, having
a prestation like this also quite big, you could understand that,
of course on this building have like fireproof walls from
the outside as well to not like be able to
throw molotov cocktails.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And starts, fireproof, bulletproof, driveproof.
Speaker 12 (18:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 20 (18:09):
Why because we are in rinkiby, and.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
This is a fortress for looking at right here.
Speaker 20 (18:13):
And so what they also do is they escort police
from here and to words. So for example, if you're
a local policeman here and you arrest someone here at
the center, then then you go back here, change uniform
and you know, walk to the subway station with police guards.
Speaker 10 (18:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
The police themselves are afraid of getting attacked after they
do their job and arrest people here.
Speaker 20 (18:32):
Yeah, and that's why they got escorted from here.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
But I wanted to hear from an immigrant who moved
to Sweden when she was twenty, I became the first
black police officer in Sweden. Is integration possible? And why
are so many migrant youth turning to a life of crime?
And weren't a big police compound this place is fortified?
Why is that?
Speaker 21 (18:50):
I mean? And it starts with like for maybe ten
years ago, we have a community policing and we have
small stations and then one day I'm on to granade
on the building and then the politicians decided that we
should be a huge policician that will be in Rinky.
If I became police officer two thousand and six, right,
(19:12):
so between two thousand and six, two thousand and fifteen
forty everything.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Was cool here.
Speaker 21 (19:18):
You have a more small crimes like I don't know,
bergley and theft, you know, those small things. After twenty fifteen,
then we start the gang violence in Sweden and then
we have certain groups whos start to build kind of
gang what they call themselves. We're having shooting before in
(19:40):
so Deitalia where we have immigrant for Middle Is, but
Christian immigrants from Middle East who also build them their
own you know, kind of gang. It's more like mafia,
I mean burning cars, you know, like shooting a throwing
stone on the police officers. But now from twenty twenty one,
now everything's quiet here because we were not like sitting
(20:03):
down and watching them, you.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Know what I mean that from twenty fifteen during the
refugee crisis, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 21 (20:12):
Most of the people say that it's because of the refugees.
But I can say because most of the people who
are in the gang valley, most of them born here
in Sweden and they came to Sweden for many years ago.
They are not like the new I migrant.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
These are second gen children of immigrants.
Speaker 21 (20:27):
Of course, of course, those youths they have to feel
that they're part of the society. They are Swedish too.
You cannot give a person identity at the same time
making the person feeling that you're not a part of
the society because you look different in living in the
area when most of them are immigrant. How can you
be a part of society if you don't know the rules,
(20:49):
you don't know the culture, you're not learning anything.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
If I were a kid, and if I were to
throw a grenade into this room, for instance, what could
you do as a police officer? And then how the
courts take me in As let's say a thirteen year old,
I mean a thirteen year old.
Speaker 21 (21:03):
I mean, nothing's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Nothing will happen. Take me in the custody, and we.
Speaker 21 (21:08):
Don't want to take the castle. It will take you
and the I mean the social will take over the
whole investigation a young man in the kind of to
call it, or it's a kind of it's not really jail,
but it's more like a place where they get educated.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Or even if I were to throw a grenade at
a police officer.
Speaker 21 (21:29):
That's just that's the system in Sweden. I say that
they should throw them to jail, and they have to learn.
If you throw a hand granade, you can get ten
years old if it caught you with the arm again,
ten years old. If you sit down there, you're going
to start to think. At the same time, the government
have to prepare. But what's happening in Sweden is like
you throw it in the prison and then after we
(21:51):
get out, we don't have anything to go.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Whether you go you go back to your friends, sure,
and then you throw another hand grenade or shoot someone else.
Speaker 21 (21:56):
Oh, because your parents are from another country, you have
to learn Swedish too. Why Swedish too? Why don't I
study Swedish as my Swedish?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Okay, Swedish is taking these young children who are born
here to learn Swedish as their second language exactly. And
they're born in Sweden, yes, but they're never gonna truly
feel Swedish axactly.
Speaker 21 (22:15):
They try to do that with me. My father came
to the school and say, hey.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
What can let's say an immigrant is coming here to
Sweden right now? Can they become Swedish? Can they integrate
into the society?
Speaker 21 (22:25):
They can if you make it easy for them, give
them the tools, make it easy for them, let the
parents to be parents. They have also to tell us
immigrant coming here, Okay, if you come to my country,
this is the law. No one is telling you. Everyone
is going to the suburb. How do we know about
what we have to do? You have to tell me
this is the law, we wanted to follow it. Now
they are saying that as even they're still saying that,
(22:47):
but they're not telling what to do either. They have
to be proud themselves about their own culture before they
can introduce that culture to me. If they don't know
the culture themselves, how can they introduce the culture to
me as a foreigner. They have to know who they
are first before they tell us who we.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Are or who they want you to be, who they want.
Speaker 21 (23:06):
Us to be. As in Swedish, what's the Swedish culture?
They will say yes, openness, open standing, Q, that's not
the culture. They can't define their own culture.
Speaker 20 (23:16):
Desegregation in these countries. What you're seeing in many different
places like this. We were just visiting like central Stockholm
the other day and there is saw a whole other picture.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Totally different, totally different. This is entirely Middle Eastern and
African people in Sweden. Because you guys, lot the men
and you guys welcome them.
Speaker 20 (23:34):
Yeah, we had the prime ministers talking on national television
to open our hearts and to be accepting. Sure you did,
yeah for almost forty years perhaps.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
And now you're paying some of these people thirty four
thousand USD to go back. Is that the idea?
Speaker 20 (23:51):
Yeah, the current government has imposed like an amount of
money to return back or it got quite big in
Sweden with multiple headlines of a full plane going back
to Iraq.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
After hearing from RISA, I met up with Marcus the
chairman of the Conservative student union at University of Stockholm,
Bilan Osman, a Muslim activist, journalist, and tewod Gen Somalian
immigrants in RV, a spokesman from a conservative think tank
o eCos, to see if they too thought it was
the government's fault that migrant youth are struggling to integrate.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Sweden has always had minorities. Sweden portray itself as how
they say it like hormogenus a country whereas everyone is
like white and blonde as a wund But there has
been minorities in Sweden for like centuries. So Sweden has
never been like this blue, white, blonde country. But in
(24:44):
like the nineteen thirties we had a lot of migration,
mainly because of word the last decades because of the
of the wars. But in the beginning of nineties Sweden
became a kind of racist country.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
We from the race biology instea to.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Where you measure people's heads, even serilized minorities.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
We are the people themselves trying to integrate themselves in
the society. Where's the disconnect?
Speaker 15 (25:11):
Yeah, well, of course a lot of them actually all
integrating society.
Speaker 10 (25:15):
That would be righteous to say.
Speaker 15 (25:18):
And the government is trying, but they have for a
long time try to just throw many at money at
these places.
Speaker 10 (25:23):
But for some.
Speaker 15 (25:24):
Reason they are not being able to integrate anyways.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Why is that?
Speaker 10 (25:29):
Yeah, I don't think they want to integrate.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I think that stands.
Speaker 15 (25:31):
But they came Sweeten for the economical incentives. They didn't
come here to become sweets. So I think a lot
of people their own background is quite solid they want
to keep that as well. For example, something obvious in
these days that we cannot take in infinitive number of
new people from a different culture, right, you have to
have this integration assimilation process that was highly controversial in
(25:54):
Sweden for like fifteen years ago. So we're having this
political thinking which is not controversial at all really in
the Parliament already through the Swedish Democrats stuff.
Speaker 10 (26:06):
And they're not far all right people at all.
Speaker 15 (26:09):
Everyone is concerned about the criminality that's coming up through
the second and first generation migrants.
Speaker 10 (26:15):
So everyone is very concerned in.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Well, in a way we're trying to rediscover what Swedish
conservatism is. One can say at least that what has
really rejuvenated Swedish conservatism the impulse which has made it
relevant again is an opposition to uncontrolled immigration, which has
been the dominant political issue in Sweden for now these
fifteen years. There are many different kinds of negative effects
(26:38):
of uncontrolled thir world mass immigration. One obvious is crime.
Today we have a gangsterism in Sweden like interwar Chicago.
We have as many bombings per capita as in Mexico.
So and Sweden used to be a very very safe country.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
There's a bunch of studies about this.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
If your name Muhammad, let's say Fatima, then you have
the lesser chance to get a job or get a
buy a house. That doesn't mean that's because your name
is Fatima. Muhammad, your life will suck. But there's been
a lot of studies when it comes to the racist
(27:17):
culture in Sweden. We have a tendency to not acknowledge
that racism exist in Sweden because of you said that
Sweden has always been welcoming towards refugees, and that's kind
of true in some sense.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
I think that that.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Has also been like an excuse to not acknowledge the
racis society that will live.
Speaker 6 (27:39):
In Swedish media was that if you opposed immigration on
any ground, that means you're a racist. Even if you
said that there might be some potential downside, you're a racist.
Swedish public debate is like a school of fish, right,
so everyone changes position at the same time. So now
everyone is kind of opposed to this. But until twenty fifteen,
this and that's why the Sweden Democrats grew so much.
(28:01):
They had a monopoly on saying that immigration could possibly be.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
A bad thing.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
Now you have like five parties who say that bad
or you know, not too good, so there's for more
competition in that way. I saw some some data from
the economists today. This was not from Sweden, from Denmark,
but it should be pretty much the same. They had
looked at the fiscal effects of immigration from different parts
of the world, but the average effect from an immigrant
(28:25):
from the Middle East and North Africa was that they
were a fiscal burden throughout their life, even and this
is important even in their prime working age.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Do you think migrants from Muslim countries are integrating well
into Sweden and is Sweden helping them integrate into Sweden?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
I actually I'm kind of allergic to the integration Telly.
Why the only way to adapt to a society is
that you get the chance to have a job, to
have good education.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
That's for me, it's like integration.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
But in the Swedish society we are more talking about
as simil that people that are coming to Sweden has
to change the way they are and that's problematic. People
don't have to have one identity, they can have multiple.
Like a couple of days ago, we had a it
was a debate in Sweden between the part of leaders
(29:16):
and the leader for the christ Democrats said that Islam
doesn't always adapt to Swedish values.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
What does that mean? I'm a Swedish Muslim, in which way.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Is there conflict between Islam and Sweden.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
That's a false narrative. And that's the problem with the society.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
You think some of the laws are precepts in the Quran,
and the precepts of Islam conflict with Swedish society and
Swedish law.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
First of all, if you look at the world population,
one fourth is Muslims. The way someone see Islam in Afghanistan,
or in Somalia, or in Iran, or in in Sweden
is obviously different. We have lots of different interpretations of
(30:06):
what Islam is. I don't believe in the concept that
Islam is one thing that has a conflict with Western values.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
So Swedes have i think, a much harder way grappling
with an understanding Islam than people would do having in
the US or in Poland, where people actually still believe
in God. For Swedes, Islam is just some superficial thing.
It's like, yeah, you know, they don't drink alcohol, but
maybe there are Swedes who don't.
Speaker 10 (30:31):
Drink alcohol either.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
The fact that people would actually care deeply about religion
is an alien idea to many Swedes. People didn't imagine
at all that we would have a large number of
masques in Sweden, or maybe it would be a temporary
thing because Muslims should stop being Muslims, because why would
they be Muslims.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So the expectation was these Muslim migrants would leave their
religion behind and become truly Swedish.
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Yeah, I imagine.
Speaker 15 (30:54):
So, so, for example, we have a big issue in
Sweden with rapes sexual assault and they are coming from
first generation migrants, but also having a big issue with
gang criminals, which is completely unique to Sweden. We haven't
had that before and that is a result of the
second generation of migrants not integrating in Swedish society.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
So why do you think second generation non ethnically Swedish
youth are becoming members of gangs and committing crimes disproportionately.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
There's individual factors when it comes to mental health or
that you many of them have edit G or have
had trouble in school. That doesn't mean that everyone that
come from like a single household or from a poor
environment or have EDHD will go into gang ViOS.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
But we have a huge problem.
Speaker 15 (31:42):
I think it's so for example, they are growing up
in an environment which is not there are no incentives
to get involved in the majority of society, and they're
living in these clusters with people from their own culture, right,
so they feel not feeling that they are belonging to
the Swedish society. Therefore there are growth having a growing
resentment to the Swedish culture.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Why is a one specific group acting disproportionately in a
certain manner.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
So that's why the question in itself doesn't tell. So
if we're talking about how can social services be better
in having contact.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
With the schools that young children are, that's a solution.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Or how can like the law informants, how can they
have a better communication with social services, And.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
That's a solution.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
We have already one hundred years ago agreed as an
international community that there are not different races. You are
not born with some kind of qualities that is in
line with your skin color or your religion and so on.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
We don't have any most.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Impact when it comes to gang violence is that non
white people in the suburbian places where those kind of shootings.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
Are going on, they are the biggest victims.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Will they killing each other?
Speaker 5 (33:02):
Is not killing each other?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Is it's like who's killing them?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Criminals that are attacking people in our society or.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
These criminals predominantly, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
I don't have any kind of sathicists to say that.
Speaker 6 (33:15):
Gangs these are I wouldn't say one hundred percent immigrants
or the children of immigrants, but maybe ninety five, ninety nine,
ninety eight percent something like that. Now, this doesn't mean
that indigenous suites never commit any crimes at all. They
certainly do many crimes, especially violent crime, sexual crime. There
is a very strong overrepresentation I'm on a certain immigrant groups.
(33:35):
I would say that people who commit less crimes, so
for example, Vietnamese immigrants, Southeast Asian ones, Thai, certainly Japanese, Chinese,
while you have very strong overrepresentation when we're talking about
groups from Middle East, North Africa Africa. Twenty five years
so it's come up. We've had about two million immigrants
come to Sweden. If these had been two million Norwegians,
we wouldn't have this discussion today.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Do you think Sweden has an obligation to help refugees?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Has that because after the Second World War a lot
of countries decided to adapt to the United Nations Declaration
on Human Rights, and one of those human rights is
that every person and every.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Human being has a value. Every human being has.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
The right to see.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
Asylum YEA and nothing has changed.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
But the only thing that has changed in Europe is
that we are heading to more and more fascist and
nationalists kind of politics in Europe.
Speaker 15 (34:33):
But their question is why do they go through like
fifteen countries to come to Sweden. That's my question exactly.
So both I think there are huge economical incentives to
come here to Sweden, obviously, but they can do that
through the ACYL process as well.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
This idea from the sixties, right, we should have a
lot of foreign aid, we should care about the Third World,
but we should care about Nicaragua, and we should care
about Somali iron with in all these countries far away.
Why well, because that was virtuous. They used to say
that Sweden is a humanitarian superpower, and there was this
(35:09):
idea that, you know, Sweden. After World War Two, Sweden,
together with Switzerland and the US, Sweden was the richest
country in the world, and we had this idea, this
feeling that we're actually better than other people.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
We're rich, we're the.
Speaker 6 (35:20):
Best, we have the most progressive, most modern society, we're
the model for the world. And the fact that we
were rich because we had stayed out of World War
Two and didn't have our industries bombed into dust and
could profit from rebuilding all the rest of Europe. Yeah,
people didn't want to think about that part. But this
meant that we were the best and most virtuous people
in the world, the model for the world. Everyone should
(35:40):
be like us.
Speaker 10 (35:41):
We got this idea that.
Speaker 6 (35:43):
Swedishness is not a particular culture. It's not having a
common history, a specific language or anything like that. Now
it means being modern. The Sweden was the most modern
country in the world. And if you immigrate to Sweden
from another country, as soon as you pass the border,
across the border, you become Swedish.
Speaker 20 (36:01):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
The idea of.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
A national state is old. The national state and the
idea doesn't work anymore. Of course, Sweden is small Thai culture.
Sweden works in the bombs. Of course, multiculture is the
only way that the world works. People that are that
are nationalists. I think that they are most more like
(36:24):
nostalgic and thinking about the time that doesn't exist and
haven't existed in a long time.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Their premise.
Speaker 15 (36:30):
People are thinking on that everyone wants to become Swedes right,
and when Swedish people meet other people from different cultures,
they realize that they want don't. They don't want influence
except for food or whatever. It's a joking Sweden. Yeah,
so Swedish people don't want that at all, and not
even the one who actually say believes that they want
to either. They are living on cid Malmeres off of Stockholm,
(36:52):
where everyone is sweets already, hanging out with the Swedish friends,
going to Swedish posy and.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Like Swedish white flight, moving out of neighborhoods that are
being flooded with new migrants. Is that what's happening?
Speaker 10 (37:03):
We have Swedish fly white flight areas Sweteah.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Definitely if I moved here, would you consider me sweet
after a few years of integration.
Speaker 10 (37:10):
I know you are not a Swede, but man, that's
also all right.
Speaker 15 (37:13):
You don't have to be as sweet, right, It's no,
it's not mandatory to be a sweet if someone.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Would get offended by you saying that as my.
Speaker 10 (37:19):
Guest, So yeah, maybe, but I don't care.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
What are your hopes for Sweden in the next twenty years.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
I want it.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
To be more of the Sweden that I love. Sometimes
I miss my own home country. Yeah, like I have
felt like, especially the last twenty years, I would say,
we have had an increase when it comes to crimes,
when it comes to the impact that the right wing
(37:47):
movement has had. I want it to be the democratic
country that I know Sweden is, and there's a whole
anti racist movement here. There are a lot of anti
fascists and this.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Is my comrades.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
And I will cheap on the coping that we will win, because.
Speaker 6 (38:04):
There's an American saying, if you find yourself in a whole,
the first thing you do is stop digging. Right, The
current writing government is very anti immigration right. The main
force of the Swedish left, the Social Democrats, they are
moving in that direction as well, and they're surrounded by
a large native population.
Speaker 10 (38:18):
They will be absorbed somehow.
Speaker 6 (38:19):
But if the immigrants become too many, then they might
very well stay unassimilated in their own communities.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
They're the majority, yeah, in certain areas.
Speaker 6 (38:28):
In certain communities say are definitely the majority, especially because
of segregation. There is one important thing, and that is
the changes we see in Swedish politics today. They are
the biggest changes in Swedish politics for a century. They
are the biggest changes in our political structure since Sweden
became a full democracy.
Speaker 15 (38:45):
I'm quite optimistic for the future in Sweden, but it
will take a long time. You have to come back
in ten fifteen years and I'll cost me again.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
And it's remigration a part of this solution in your opinion, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (38:55):
It will be.
Speaker 15 (38:56):
Yeah, firstly this with economical incentives, but will be forced also,
I'm pretty sure about that.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
When I talk to foreign conservative friends about the changes
in Sweden, they often believe this because it's one thing
when you have the right ruling in Poland, or in
the US or in Slovenia. It's something else entirely when Sweden,
the supposed progressive socialist paradise, turns to the right or
(39:24):
even the hard right, then people really say, wait, what's
going on? Is Sweden perhaps a canary in the coal mine?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
As the world continues to globalize and wealthy nations import
third world migrants for cheap labor to support their lowering
birth rates, and in the name of kindness and diversity,
we should be asking ourselves what is a society and
culture willing to sacrifice of itself to accommodate those it welcomes,
And is a kabab stand in every street corner worth
sacrificing a country's entire culture. What do you think
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