Extraordinary Contact: Life Beyond "Intruders" | Q&A | Debra Kauble | UFO HUB #99 - UFO HUB

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Everyone, Welcome to your for hoblive stream. Today's guest is going to
be Deborah Cobble. She was originallyknown as Kathy Davis and Bud Hopkins's Intruders
that was published in nineteen eighty seven. So since then she's written a couple
of books, and of course shehas her latest book. Sorry I'm getting
all distracted. It should have stoppedmy own little notifications. But she has

(00:23):
written her latest book and I'm tryingto figure out where it is because my
screen just disappeared. It is calledExtraordinary Contact Life Beyond Intruders. So I'd
love to bring her in asap,but I first would like to cover some
information with you first about this Mexicohearing that just happened yesterday, and just
direct you to some links, soit's always. In the description below,

(00:47):
I have all the links for Deborahher website where you can get her book,
and she also keeps track of recentyear for information, so her website
has a lot of useful information forso you've that our researchers, so please
do check it out. Also inthe description below, you will see several
different links for telegram and some othersides. The reason why I'm bringing up

(01:10):
Telegram is that I'm also streaming liveon Telegram right now to where its voice
only. But that's also a waythat if Debbie would like to take some
questions later on. We haven't quitediscussed that yet, but you can call
in or log in through the yourfo hub Telegram group and simply just click
on that button that looks like alittle person raising their hand, which tells

(01:32):
me that you would like to aska question, And you can ask a
question of Debra directly, and ifyou don't, you can just through whatever
platform you end up watching this.You can in the comments, please put
three asterisks before your question, sothat way I know it's directed towards Debra

(01:53):
and it's not just a regular chatterin the chat room. So I think
I covered everything you need to knowregarding that. And let me let me
switch over now to the article thatwas written about the Mexico hearing yesterday.
So let me let me pull upthe browser here real quick. Up this

(02:14):
will we'll cover later. So yesterdaythey basically had a hearing I believe it's
the Lower Congress of Mexico and theywere unveiling these two non human alien corpses,
and it was headed if I'm notmistaken by a known uthologist, Iimi

(02:36):
Mussan, and so I'm going tojust read a little bit from this article
to you just to give you thatinformation. There's this slight video or short
video or a segment of of thewhole unveiling, and I just would like
to show that to you, becauseas they're basically opening up these little boxes
and showing to you these these twonon human entities, I will probably just

(02:58):
talk over it because I don't speakSpanish, and I don't know what percentage
watching or listening to your FO hubspeak Spanish as well, but I figured
just to be safe, I'll explainto you what's happening in there, and
then we'll talk to Debra. Okay, so this for those of you who
are watching and you can see thepicture, but for those listening, it's

(03:23):
just a basically still of the videothat was unveiled yesterday, and it's one
of the humanoids in the box.So it says he that Mexico's Congress saw
an official event where two alien corpseswere unveiled in Mexico City. The official
unveiling of the two alleged alien corpseswas carried out by ufologist him Mussan.

(03:46):
The two small corpses were displayed forall observers. Organizers claim that this small
mummifiedes specimen were a thousand years oldand had been retrieved from the Cuscope Peru
or from Cusco Peru. Moissan toldmembers of the Mexican government that ufospec the

(04:08):
UFO specimen were studied at the AutonomousNational University of Mexico, where scientists,
he stated, were able to drawDNA evidence using radiocarbon dating. To let
me scrolling down, he was quotedsaying by Marco dot com, these specimen

(04:30):
are not part of our terrestrial evolutiondessant beings that were found after a UFO
wreckage. They were found in adiatom algae mind and were later fossilized.
Mossan also said that they were ableto draw DNA evidence using radiocarbon dating and
thirty percent of the specimens DNA wasunknown. Experts also testified on the oath

(04:56):
that one of the bodies had exinside and also had implants made of rare
metals like same or samium. I'msorry, I'm not too familiar with that.
So anyway, I'm just gonna playthis little video to you. I
think I turned down I hope Iturned down the sound enough to where I
can just kind of talk to youabout it. So basically, what this

(05:21):
video shows for those who are listeningonly, is basically unveiling opening these two
boxes with the two specimen inside.And that's basically what the Mexico Congress saw
yesterday and the rest of the world. They of course then had some other
people that I believe we're studying this, and I'm going to skip forward where

(05:43):
they where they basically did some deepscants off the skull and we're able to
just reveal about what's basically what whatthe what the skeleton, and what the
mummy is basically look look like inside. Okay, I'm going to switch
over to some pictures as well.So this is the Those are the pictures

(06:04):
that were obviously on the exterior andhow these heads look. And then this
is some of the scans that theywere doing to I guess that reveals some
bone structure and what it's basically whatthe anatomy of them looks like. And
I believe these are the three threeeggs that they were mentioned that they found

(06:26):
inside, and so anyway, itwas it was quite quite an exciting day
for Mexico yesterday because there was nomention of of this that that I know
of heavily in our media. Itwas reported basically as as basically stating some

(06:46):
scientists here believe that this is ahoax. And I don't know if it's
just simply a counterpoint, but justknowing this was knowing behin me Massan.
You know, he's been into theinto uthology for quite a long time,
and I'm not trying to, youknow, accuse him of certain things or

(07:08):
a hoax or anything like that,but just for the fact that it's possible
his history, I have to bringthis up. And a few years back
he basically had another had another Iguess say, presentation where they were claiming
that they had some some alien bodiesand you see the picture of what I'm
displaying to you now on the browser, and it basically turned out to be

(07:30):
a mumified body of a two yearold boy. And so a lot of
people had paid money to watch thestream, and some of the very well
known American researchers have gone to Mexicoto basically talk about this, and it
just created a lot of a lotof confusion. So I don't know that

(07:51):
maybe maybe a different person that mightnot have necessarily this kind of history to
present this, because if these twospecimen are truly truly what they all claim
to be, maybe would have beenbetter, maybe having somebody else that doesn't
that doesn't have this history to presentthis. But anyway, those are my
two cents on this, and I'llleave it at that. Let me actually

(08:16):
just conclude with this and bringing Deborahbecause I actually would love to talk to
him and talk to her more,and maybe she might have some thoughts about
this herself, so let me letme bring her in. Hey, Debrah,
how are you welcome? I amI'm good. How are you?
I'm doing great. You've probably heardmy my little intro and to the to

(08:39):
the Mexican I guess Congress presentation yesterday. Do you do you have any thoughts
on your own about this? What? What do you? What do you
think? Well, you know,I kind of agree with you. Somebody
brought it to my attention kinda earlythis morning and I had a look at
it. The video they sent mewas actually like three and a half hours

(09:00):
long, and I don't speak Spanish, so it was kind of difficult for
me to follow. I looked throughit, Yeah, my mind went back
to our you know, the theCongression Congressional hearing we just had recently on
ours on UAPs, you know,here in America, and I thought it

(09:22):
was sort of the same kind ofthing. And then all of a sudden,
around the three hour and fifteen minutemark, here's these two boxes and
they have these alleged aliens in them, and then I thought, you know,
I'm I When I did some morereading about it on the internet and

(09:46):
talked to some friends about it thatknow a little bit more about mister Mousson.
I think that's how you say hislast name. Yeah, I mean
i'd heard what you heard, hadheard you know a few years back.
I'd heard all about that too,and I kind of felt the same way,
like, well, wow, ifthis was really something, they might

(10:11):
have had a better spokesperson. Notno offense to mister Masson. I don't
know him. I mean, he'sprobably a perfectly nice person, but he's
got a history, you know,he's got some baggage. So well,
I feel like the event, Imean uthology in general, I mean,
if we can catch a break,you know. It's it's nice too,

(10:33):
you know, and especially if it'sgoing to be something that big to be
revealed. That's the part that Iwas hoping that it doesn't. I guess
I don't know. What's the wordI'm looking for doesn't has a stain on
uthology in that way, Yeah,I mean thinking, well, maybe uthology
is just you know, we wetook a couple steps forward in the last

(10:54):
few months, and maybe we justtook one one or two backwards here,
you know. But I mean thebig picture, it's par for the course.
I mean, asn't that the wayit's been, you know, right,
So I don't know. I remainedopen minded, right, I'll well,
I'll be watching, right. Icertainly want to want this, you

(11:18):
know, to whatever they're presenting.And again I don't know. Maybe I
guess because I already speak to otherlanguages, maybe I should just add Spanish
to my repertoire and so it willbe a lot easier to just kind of
listen and find out on my ownwhat's going on. I mean, the
same way we all do in ourown language when we do different kind of
information gathering and whatnot. But youknow, it's I wish I could understand

(11:41):
more who the other gentlemen where thatthey were these scientists, because apparently I
didn't read this part, but therewere scientists from not just Mexico but also
Japan and Brazil. You know,they're talking about these that they were already
analyzed and prior obviously to this.So I would love to be able to
just maybe read more translations or justlearn Spanish. I can't. I don't

(12:05):
feel like I can make any kindof any particular kind of the judgment on
any of it because I don't know, I don't know enough about it,
and I don't know what kind oftests were done on it, who did
it, you know what I mean. So I'm just gonna just watch and
see what happens. It always seemsto come out sooner or later it's not

(12:31):
right. So well, I mean, give it some time. I'm sure
we'll find out either it will confirmthat this was more or this was less
than we all thought or hoped.Yeah, yeah, all right, Well,
Devor, please do tell me aboutextraordinary contact and basically how that came
about. And because this is thebook that you've written on your own,

(12:52):
and so I'm just gonna give youthe florin. Please just tell me all
you want to tell me about it. Well, thank you. You know,
I originally wrote Abducted with my sisterKathy back in ninety two, I
think, and for a long timepeople would ask me, well, when

(13:13):
are you going to write another book? Or then it was to the point
where why don't you re put out, you know, the first one abducted.
Well, uh, my sister Kathy, she's her health is not good
anymore. She's in a nursing homeand actually is not even able to,
you know, do anything or writeor talk or anything like that. So

(13:39):
first I started, I was gonnajust republish, try to get somebody to
help me republish the original book.Well, it was written on like an
old word processor kind of thing.And when I finally was able to get
all the files from it, whichmiraculously we were able to save some of

(14:01):
them from the tornado, and Iput them on it loaded him into my
computer. It was a jumbled upmess in the Microsoft word and it took
about five years literally to unscramble everythingbecause I had to do it manually,

(14:22):
paragraph by paragraph. And then onceI got to go and I keep journals.
I always keep journals. I've writtenin them since I was a kid.
Diaries started out diaries, and Ihad a lot of notes and journals

(14:43):
that had happened from when I hadfirst written that book in ninety two with
my sister till you know now basically, and I got to think, and
you know, I maybe should justgo on ahead and just write a whole
other book. So I took parts. I took out parts of the first

(15:07):
book, just mainly the main storyof you know, June thirty eighty three
and a few incidents happened around that, and then I added to it.
I added, you know, myjournal notes, things that had happened to
me since then. And I couldsee a pattern as I worked on this,

(15:30):
and it took several years because Iwas still working at the time,
and you know, I saw thispattern of change in me and change in
the phenomenon as it happened to me. And it went from more physical contact
like you know, obviously the Junethirty eighty three incident and others, to

(15:50):
a different kind of contact, whichI now kind of call it metaphysical contact,
but just gives you kind of anidea of it went from you know,
I started changes started happening in me, you know, mentally and uh,

(16:12):
spiritually, and all kinds of thingslike that started happening, and I
started having more paranormal activity, andthen I got pulled into the paranormal realm
for a while. I got involvedwith some paranormal groups, and I did
some investigating and noodled around with electronicvoice phenomenon, which I find I have

(16:33):
quite a knack for. They calledme the antenna, and uh, you
know, all kinds of things werechanging in me, and uh so I
decided to add that into the book. And then, you know, I
was working in an automotive factory backin twenty twenty and we went on strike

(16:55):
and uh uh I was on wellwhen we went on strike in twenty sixteen
twenty, I can't remember anyway,we went on strike. We were out
for six seven weeks on strike,and of course I had to do strike
duty, which I pulled midnights.That was fun. And then not too

(17:17):
long after we got back, COVIDhit and then COVID shut down everything and
we were shut down and stayed athome and didn't work for like seven more
weeks. And it was during thatseven week period that I decided I got
sick of binge watching you know,stuff on Netflix, and decided I was
going to put my time to somegood use. And I actually finished the

(17:41):
book that I had started all thoseyears ago. I got it finished,
and I was so tickled, andI was talking to my friend Peter Robbins
about it, and I was tryingto figure out if I was going to
self publish it because I, youknow, didn't have a publisher, and
my old publisher had gone bankrupt andgone out of business years ago. And

(18:03):
he mentioned to me a print ondemand company in the UK that he was
familiar with and he knew the folkswell there, and he put me in
touch with him, Robbie Graham atthe time, who was one of the
editors, and it I'm sorry,and I sent him an email and a

(18:29):
couple of samples of my book andhe wrote me back and he was it
was so synchronistic because at the timethat I was looking for a publisher for
my book, he was actually workingon a deal with Carol Rainey, who
was Bud hopkins ex wife who hadthe rights to Missing Time and Intruders and

(18:52):
some of his other works. Hewas working on a deal with her to
actually republish Missing Time and Intruders throughAugust Night Press and get it back out
into you know, the world,so that the new generation of UFO investigators

(19:14):
could have this work to read,because a lot of people, you know,
at forty years didn't know who hewas and what groundbreaking work he did.
And he said it was just sosynchronistic. It was like the universe
was speaking to everybody and everything wasdovetailing, and it's like the deal he
worked out a deal with Carol andwas able to publish those two and at

(19:37):
the same time, they took mybook and they decided to publish it,
and so we all kind of wentout there in the world together again.
You know. It was just soso surreal and synchronistic. I say that
it was meant to be. Itwas like the universe was telling me that
this was what I was supposed todo, and this was when I was
supposed to do it. And soit's been out since August of twenty twenty

(20:02):
one, and I've done before that. You didn't hear too much from me
or see too much from me around. I focused on family and my job,
and I worked a lot of hours, didn't get a lot of vacation
time, and sometimes I just gotfed up with all of the weirdness and
wanted it to go away, soI would pull myself back, you know,

(20:25):
but it always pushed me back in. Something always kicks started me right
back into it. So I havefinally come to the conclusion that this is
this is my life, and thisis what I'm supposed to be doing.
I've so the book's been out,I've been on a lot of podcasts and
been back out there since then.I actually went to California in July of

(20:49):
twenty twenty one and participated in thefilming a documentary called The Observers with Lindimo
how and Richard Dolan and William Henryand Jimmy Church and Whitley Strieber and I

(21:11):
was and it's it's on you cansee you can see that. I think
it's on Amazon Prime. I believeyou can watch that on there. So
I did that, which was highlyunusual for me to do because that kind
of stuff makes me nervous. ButI did it because Linda asked me to,
and she's an old friend. Butso I've gone out and done that

(21:32):
and you know, my friend andI, Greg Cable, we had a
podcast for many years called and youmight remember it was called Midwest Pair Talk
Radio. It was internet radio thatwe did, and we did it for
several years, but then we wentinto a like an eight year hiatus because
life, you know, through amonkey wrench in our plans every time we

(21:55):
turned around. So but we've justrecently resurrected that, going to be doing
that again. And I'm also aco host now on another vlog. It's
a YouTube vlog and they do Facebook. It's simulcast on Facebook Live and it's
called Voices of Contact with Michael Carterand Mary Bassett and Deb and r J.

(22:19):
Durrouss and that's on Friday's at eighton YouTube or Facebook. And then
I've been moderating. I mean,I'm administration administrator of the zero Midwest Experiencer

(22:42):
Facebook page and it's a private pagefor people where they can come and talk
about their experiences and the things thatbother them about it, or you know,
just try to meet up with otherpeople like them and exchange you know,
experiences and see if they can findsome support. And I moderate or

(23:04):
administrate that with the goal named BeverlyMoore with the help of Van Smith.
And so I'm doing things now thatI'm retired that I wanted to do and
it's mostly centered around helping other people, you know. And but anyway,

(23:26):
so that's you know, the bookstarted that. Once I got my book
published in August twenty twenty one,then everything as like the It's like I
said, Okay, I know whyI'm supposed to be doing, and I
know why I'm here, so let'sget going. And then bam, like
the floodgates just open. And I'mjust doing all kinds of stuff now.

(23:47):
And I told my website and Iget I get emails, and I get
Facebook requests and stuff and you andI told you a lot of people say
I saw you in a video onUFO hub and I just wanted to reach
out and you know, say hi, you know, share stuff with me.
I get a lot, so youhave a lot of yours. Well,

(24:07):
I'm I'm glad that it helps himin some way. Need to get
the word out. And you know, certainly, certainly, I guess at
least shows me I'm not doing thisfor nothing now. So but please do
tell me you know about your Iguess new paranormal experiences that you gathered from

(24:27):
this and maybe whatever you what ifyou said you were written about in that
book. Because the only reason,you know, because if you'll listen to
Whitley Strieber and how everything started outfor him and then how it eventually turned
into I guess you just called itthis supernatural. Were all these events that
you know, a death, neil, near death experiences, death itself contact,

(24:52):
all of that kind of was,you know, kind of discombbily to
one one thing, you know,And I don't know if if you kind
of had that similar experience, ifit was different for you, Well,
it's kind of been similar for me. Yeah, and uh, I mean
I started out with all the physicalstuff, the like in eighty three that

(25:14):
left the mark in the yard anddamaged my eyes, and we had the
damaged the yard and had witnesses andthings like that, and then there was
another event similar to that where youknow, like a physical event where I
was in the car with the friendof mine and we were out. We
had two other people in the carbesides me, and there was a siding

(25:40):
and some strange stuff happened. Experienceslike that too, Like I remember it
was after right after we first movedback into this house after the tornado damage
we were we were destroyed by atornado and November of twenty thirteen, and

(26:00):
we didn't move back home until Septemberof twenty fourteen. It took that long
to rebuild because of the circumstances ofthe whole area getting wrecked and back ordered
stuff. And you know, twoweeks after the tornado there was seventeen inches
of snow on the ground and itdidn't melt till April. That was a

(26:21):
big problem. So that it wasshortly after we moved back home. It
was almost like to the day,So, I mean, I think it
was September twenty second, twenty fourteen, and I had this I had this

(26:41):
bizarre dream, or I thought itwas. I didn't. I don't think
it was a dream. I wassitting to kitchen table drinking coffee, and
I could feel someone looking at me. And I looked up and I saw
a person with a sheet on themand two eyeholes cut out like a like
a kid would do a Halloween costume, right, But this person was up

(27:07):
in the corner of my dining room, up hanging with it looked like an
adult with and they were wearing ChuckTaylors, you know what those are,
and his shoes. They were hangingout the bottom of this and I looked
up at it and it startled meand I for a minute and then I
saw the Chuck Taylors and I kindof laughed and I said, really like

(27:27):
that. And instantly the vibe Igot from that thing was like it was
testing me and I passed. Youknow it just that kind of stuff I've
gotten. I've gone to paranormal investigationsand I've been touched. I have recorded

(27:51):
EVPs. One of the EVPs thatI got was so what, it was
so amazing. We were in agroup and we were at a private residence
and there was no one in thehouse except the dog, the family dog,
and we had set our base stationup in the garage area. It

(28:15):
was attached garage. The complaint thefamily had was that there was a little
girl that would run up and downthe hallways and wake him up at night
and move things and they could hearher play and talk, but there were
no little children, no little girlsin the house normally. And I have
a video recording of this, andthe audio was picked up on the video

(28:36):
camera, and then my audio onmy little handheld that was laying on the
table picked it up as well.The dog walks in the room and you
hear at Claire's day, High Gingersounds like a little girl says High Ginger.
Well, the dog's name was Ginger. And I mean, this isn't
the kind of e VP that youhear on you know, ghost but Hunters
or whatever on TV. This thingis like just a voice, it clear

(29:02):
as a bell. That sort ofstuff started happening with me when my husband
passed away. You know, myhusband, my first not the husband i'm
married to now, but the onebefore that. I was a widow.
He committed suicide in our backyard andthat night we had MA course, everybody

(29:30):
came, my family and everybody wasthere with me, supporting me, and
some of my family members were outsidesmoking cigarette and this big ball of green
light flew over the house and everyonesaw it. They ran in the house
and they ran out back, andit looked like a bow light. I
believe that's probably what it was.And it split in half when it was

(29:51):
over the pasture, and one partdropped to the ground and the other one
shot off and I got a phonecall right after that from friends in Indianapolis,
seventy miles to the south of US, who had seen it also.
And my late husband was like anamateur astronomer, and he loved things in
the stars in the sky and justall kinds of stuff like that happened after

(30:12):
he died immediately. That was paranormal, I think, And like when my
mother passed away. My mother andI had talked about how what death would
be like, you know, andshe told me if she could, she
would give me signs after she passedaway. This is when she first found

(30:33):
out she had lung cancer. Soshe passed away at eleven thirty in the
morning down an Indie. It wasa long day and I drove home exhausted
by myself that long drive and wasjust heartbroken because no matter how many how
how you you know, how youknow it's coming and you expect it,
it doesn't make it any easier whenit's come. When it's there. And

(30:59):
I came home, got into bed, and I bet I probably wasn't in
bed an hour and my husband andI were startledly awoken by this crashing sound
coming from the stairwell. So weboth jumped up and ran into the stairway,
and I had photographs, pictures offamily members all up and down the

(31:22):
stairwell, you know, decorating,and the picture of that had my mom
in It had come off of thenail, rolled down the stairs and was
sitting straight up at the bottom ofthe stairs like looking back up at us.
Well, the nail was still inthe wall, and when we got
the picture, the glass wasn't brokenanyway, the frame wasn't broken, and

(31:45):
it was just one of those cheapframes that had like a cardboard tab on
the back, but the cardboard tabwasn't broken. So that picture literally lifted
off of that nail and tumbled downthe stairs and stood it up right at
the bottom of the stairs, andit was just and I got immediately,
I got excited, and I toldmy husband, Oh my god, that's

(32:06):
my mom. She told me shewould do this, she told me.
I was so excited, I couldn'tsleep, and I my dog was kind
of panting, and so I wassitting I went downstairs and was sitting on
the couch next to the stairs whilemy husband went into the kitchen to get
a drink, and the dog wassitting by my feet, panting, and
I had three angels like shelf sitterangels on the edge of the stairs,

(32:30):
you know, in there in thatroom, and the bottom angel, literally
in front of my eyes, leapedoff of the stairs, rolled to my
feet and just stayed was there atmy feet, and I'm like, I,
oh, it was my mom.You know. I never felt sad
again after that because I knew thatwas my mom. And my husband,

(32:55):
who is somewhat more skeptical than meabout things like that, he was convinced
that it was my mom, especiallywhen he saw the picture. That kind
of stuff was happening a lot.So is it something that kind of slowly
naturally kind of unraveled itself and kindof became part of your life or is

(33:20):
that something that that was kind ofobvious that it was going to go into
that direction after having you know,contact, because it's there's nothing really out
there other than people telling the storiesthat you know, ghosts or any of
that other stuff has to be accompaniedby aliens, you know, and so
it's that what is it that maybeabout the event itself? And maybe you

(33:42):
can also go for those that havenever not heard your story about what had
happened to you initially and any kindof you know, people always loved these
stories, including myself, about youknow, what happened, where were you,
who was the hair and all ofthat, so please do share whatever
you can. Well, I thinkthat, you know, I grew up
in a household where we I thinkmy parents, you know, were more

(34:08):
open to paranormal stuff. I wouldhear. My my mom was kind of
a fan of Jeane Dixon, ifyou can, if you're old enough to
know who Jeane Dixon, and shewas a psychic that, you know,
kind of a well known psychic medium. My mom was interested in things like
that. And my father always claimedhe was psychic, you know, and

(34:29):
my grandmother used to claim my fatherwas psychic when he was a little kid.
So I grew up in that kindof a household. And then my
sister, my older sister, likeI told you, in nineteen sixty five,
she had an experience that the familytalked about for years, and I
just I assumed that this sort ofthing happened to everyone because I was so

(34:49):
young. I mean in nineteen sixtyfive, I was only six, and
you know, my sister was justshe was eleven years older than me.
She was driving, and she haddriven my mom to a bingo game one
afternoon in Indianapolis, and after shedropped Mom off the bingo gang, she
was driving home and she got theuncontrollable urge to turn into the parking lot

(35:12):
of a church. It was theonly spirit church on Tenth Street, Indianapolis
the way, if anybody knows,so anyway, she pulled into the back
of She pulled in the parking lotof this church and drove around to the
back when she said, when sheput the car in park, she looked
up and above her was, sheclaimed, this giant silver UFO with lights
on the bottom of it, andthat it started to lift her whole car

(35:36):
up with her in it, andshe blacked out. And the next memory
that she had after that was whenshe woke up in the parking lot in
her car, but it was dark, and it was also several hours had
passed. It was now time topick my mom up from the bingo game.
So she drove immediately left the parkinglot and went right back to where

(35:57):
she'd dropped Mom off, and ofcourse Mom was waiting and Mom. I
heard Mom tell Bud that she,you know, Kathy carried on about this
all the way home and was adamantthat this was real and this happened,
and she was absolutely freaked out,you know, and she talked about it
on and off for years. AndI was growing up and I just thought

(36:19):
it was normal. I thought everybodyhad stuff saw stuff like that, you
know. But and then I hadabout that same time, she had taken
me with her up to Michigan tovisit a friend of hers who I had
also played with this person's little sister. And while I was up there,

(36:40):
I was missing that entire day,and they actually called the police to find
me, but it was my sisterwho found me and brought me back.
And my only memories I have ofthat whole time I was missing was that
I was playing with a little boyin a strange house with strange toys.
So the little boy was about myheight, but he had big brown eyes,

(37:04):
and I know I was afraid ofhis mother. She was angry that
I was there, and she kindof made me leave. But so then
June thirtieth, nineteen eighty three,is the episode there. I had an
incident happened to me when I wasa teenager. Had another thing happened to
when I was a teenager. Ihad another thing happened to me when I

(37:25):
was a young married woman after justgotten married, and I was only eighteen
then nineteen. When when I wasa young married woman, I was my
husband. I had gone to bedand I was awakened by these two gray

(37:47):
aliens. I called them them gray, the little gray guys that were in
my room. There were two ofthem in the foot of my bed,
and I immediately set up and said, don't come near me, don't move,
don't touch me, Please, don'ttouch me. Let me just terrified.
And suddenly they had a black boxin their hand, a small box

(38:09):
like a like mom much bigger thanlike a shoe box, and it kind
of floated over to me on mylap, and I was very calm at
that point. I was no longerterrified, and I remembered saying to Mary,
thinking to them, what is this? Gonna have it? And they
said no, I couldn't have it, but that I would recognize it and

(38:31):
know how to use it when Isee. When I saw it again,
then they took it back and theybacked away from me from the foot of
my bed, and they just kindof fizzled out, and they were gone.
I immediately tried to wake my husbandup to no avail, and I
then became extremely tired and I slippedback down in the bed and I fell

(38:52):
asleep. But next morning I wokeup and I remembered it all, and
I told my husband, and hemade fun of me, and so I
called my mother, and my momshe even you know again, when Bud
came and interviewed her family. Sheremembered that phone call I had made to
her, and I was adamant thatI was not asleep. It wasn't a

(39:13):
dream. Those two strange looking thingswere in my room and I didn't know
what they wanted. So then fastforward to June thirtieth, nineteen eighty three.
I'm a single mother. Now I'mdoorsd I'm living with my parents.
Not too long before, I justmoved back home with my parents and my
two kids. I was gonna cutsome patterns out for a friend who was

(39:36):
a seamsters who lift the street behindus, and I was at the kitchen
table. I was at the kitchensink, washing my hands, getting ready
to leave, and I noticed therewas a strange light in the pump hounds
of the swimming pool, and Imentioned it to my mom, and she
didn't seem to be concerned about it, but it was bugging me. Two
A the light wasn't quite the rightcolor, I don't think, and be

(40:00):
that door should have been closed becauseI was the last one out there putting
chlorine in the swimming pool, soI knew that I had closed that door,
but she didn't seem concerned. SoI got in the car a couple
of minutes later, and I decidedto drive down the side driveway and back
to the turnaround, just have onemore look back there before I left.

(40:21):
This was a sandstone try level witha split driveway, so I had been
parked in front of the garage andI just backed up and went down the
side drive and to the turnaround.My father had a big workshop back there,
full of loss of expensive motorcycles andlittle British race cars that he restored,
so there was a lot of moneyback there, and I was concerned

(40:43):
about leaving my mom and my twokids by themselves. My dad worked second
shift at the local automotive plants,so he was at home when I was
leaving. Didn't see anything. Everythinglooked fine, so I went ahead,
made that one and a half twominute trip to the street behind us,
and as soon as I got toDiana's house, the phone rang and it

(41:05):
was my mother and she said,I want you to come home right now.
And I said, oh my god, what's wrong because she sounded scared
and that panicked me because my momwasn't like that. And my friend's husband
heard me. He says, overmy shoulder, tell her to call the
police. That's what we pay himfor. And she heard him and she

(41:25):
said, no, I don't wantanybody here but you. I'm like,
okay. So I hung up thephone and I went back. I went
through the Florida room off the sideof the house. Mom was in there,
and I grabbed the unloaded shotgun thatDad kept by the trash compactor out
there. My mom said, youknow that's not loaded, right I said,

(41:47):
of course, I know it's notloaded. You know, I'm the
one that asked for it not tobe while we were living there with kids.
So I said, but whoever's outin the yard or whose ever's out
here doesn't know that, and Ican come up and hit him with it
or something, you know. SoI'm thinking. So I go out and
I look around. I looked bythe pump house of the swimming pool,

(42:09):
look around the pool. I goback to the workshop and make sure it's
all locked up. Everything looks normal, no problem. I do find my
dog is under my dad's ladder truckand she won't come out. She's acting
kind of weird. But I wentback across the yard and into the pedestrian

(42:30):
door of the garage. It wasattached to the house because it was open,
and that, to me was itshouldn't have been open. And I
was looking around in there and didn'tsee anybody, and was about to leave,
and I suddenly felt like I wason fire, and I felt really
hot, and I thought, ohmy god, I got to get out

(42:50):
of here right now. And Iran towards the open door, and when
I did, something hit me inthe chest. That was like the most
intense white light I've ever seen inmy life. It was so intense that,
I mean, I know my eyeswere closed, but I could still
see it. I couldn't get awayfrom it. I also could not move.
At this point, I'm frozen,and I'm beginning to shake, and
the shaking turned into a vibration,and it was so intense that it felt

(43:15):
like I was shaking apart Adam byAdam, you know, and I remember
thinking, oh my god, I'mdead. I remember thinking that, and
at some point I have no ideahow long I was in that condition,

(43:36):
and I have no idea what happened. But once the vibrating stopped and the
shaking stopped, and the intensity ofthe light waned, I realized that I
was no longer in the doorway,but I was now out on the cement
patio in front of the open door, maybe twenty feet or so. And

(43:57):
I felt some pull down on myshoulder. I felt a burning since stationed
in my ear. I heard someonesay it was unfortunate that I felt pain.
And then I started to notice movement. I still couldn't move, but
I could move. I could movemy eyes to look, and I saw
a movement in front of me.And my vision was real splotchy, like

(44:19):
flashbold white splotchis in my eyes,you know. So I could see there
were people out there moving around whatI thought were kids, little people,
little kids, And I thought,why are these little kids in my mom
and dad's backyard. And as I'mthinking this, they're kind of moving towards
each other, kind of lining upoff to my right, up by the

(44:44):
driveway, and then they all kindof start gliding down. They weren't walking,
they just kind of glided down towardsme. They didn't come at me.
But that's when when I was watchingthem and I thought, oh my
god, my kids. And Iheard it's the same boys say your children
are fine. And that's when Isaw the white ball of light. This

(45:07):
basketball size ball of light is softand it was easy to look at,
not like the whatever it was.It hit me and it seemed to be
attached to this thing that I didn'twant to look at, but didn't not
want to look at because I neededto know where it was in relationship to
me and if it was coming closerto me, you know. And I

(45:29):
kept thinking, oh my god,don't come near me, please, don't
you know. This ball of lightkind of dropped down to the ground really
slowly, and then it came backup and stopped where it had begun,
and I felt like it was lookingat me, but I don't know why.
I also felt like this thing thatwas off to my left, I

(45:52):
somehow felt like it wasn't completely onthe ground. It's almost like it kind
of wabbled just ever so slightly.It wasn't much bigger than the pump house
of the swimming pool. It wasprobably maybe ten feet tall and shaped like
an egg, and honestly, inretrospect, we called as a ship for
years because we didn't know. Ididn't know what else to call it.

(46:12):
I didn't don't know what it was. And I could tell you that even
six little kids couldn't go in thatthing and fly anywhere from to another galaxy
without being like jammed in, likestartin. So I don't know what that
thing was in the yard, butI and I don't even remember seeing the
kids go into it. I rememberwatching them glide down in front of me,

(46:36):
and then when I saw that thing, everything just, you know,
my my, I didn't notice thekids anymore, so I didn't even remember
seeing them go in there. Thenthe next thing I remember as I heard
a voice, but it was adifferent voice this time, and it called
my name, And as soon asit did, it was like someone snapped

(46:59):
their fingers and I kind of wokeup. I could move. I turned
towards the sound of the voice,and I started to walk towards the sound,
which was my mom with her headout the window at the door of
the kitchen, calling my name andasking me if everything was okay, And
I remember saying to her, everything, everything's cool. I think that's what

(47:20):
I said, But and I don'tall that I just described to you kind
of went away in my head andwasn't visible to me when I looked again.
You know, I wasn't there.I didn't have any memory of it,
so I didn't know that. Ididn't want to go back and SEW.

(47:42):
I felt weird and I felt Idon't know why. I felt like
I wanted to get wet, andso I called my friend and I said,
hey, you guys want to comeand go swimming instead of sew.
And then she's like, yeah,sure. So she brought her daughter over
and we went to get the swimmingpool. As we're walking across the yard,
she steps on something in the yardand we thought she'd stepped on a
bee that stung her, but wedidn't see anything. And the girl she

(48:07):
complained to her foot was tingling,and then she complained that it was going
numb and going up her leg beingnumb. And while we were out in
the pool for a few minutes,we all started getting kind of nauseous and
queasy, and my eyes were startingto really burn bad and hurt, and
my vision was I could see halosaround all the lights outside because it was

(48:29):
dark out now. So they wenthome and the next morning when I woke
up, my eyes were swollen shut, so my mother took me to the
emergency room. Why there was adoctor, an eye doctor in the emergency
room when I arrived there that morning, I don't know, but there was.
He Normally they're not in there,but there was an actual eye doctor

(48:52):
in the emergency room that morning whenI got there, and he looked at
me and he asked my mom ifshe would take me across the road to
his office so he could look atme better. He said he had better
equipment over there that he could use, so she did. And the first
thing he says to me is haveyou looked into the arc of a welder's
torch? And I said nope.And I did not tell him about the

(49:15):
light the night before because I didn'tremember it at that point. So I
got a lot of creams eye drops. My eyes were never the same.
It took several weeks for my eyesto recuperate from this, and my eyes
were never the same. I wentfarsighted real quickly after that. I never

(49:36):
wore glasses before then. But anyway, and before I before, I forget
about my eyes. By the timeI was in my thirties, I was
diagnosed with macular degeneration and cataracts.And by the time I barely made it
to fifty, I don't even Ithink it's in my late forties when I
had to have both my lenses replacedin my ey with acrylic lenses because the

(50:00):
cataracts were so bad. My immaculardegeneration is dry and stable, but my
vision continues to get worse as Iget older, so it's probably not going
to be good in the long run. But anyway, back to then,
I I also was highly anxious andstarted noticing that I was My glance was

(50:27):
swell up, I'd get rashes,I couldn't sleep at night. And it
was like a few days after that, the family was all coming over to
go swimming for Fourth of July becausewe had the pool, and so all
the adults were in the house preparingfor the cookout, and all the kids
ran out to the pool and myoldest nephew came back in and he said,

(50:51):
Grandma, what's wrong with your yard? And she's like, I don't
know what you're talking about. It'sweird because none of us had gone out
there are looked for these several days, and even with the pool and at
being July, you know, sowe all went out there and we're all

(51:14):
in my mind, I can seeit. We're all kind of standing around,
like the who's and who ville standingaround the tree, you know,
and look at the big tree.We're looking at this mark in the yard.
And my mother says, oh,that's where our UFO landed the other
night. And I looked, youknow, out of the blue, she
says this. She pops off withthis, and the kid's giggle and mom
laughs, and I looked at her, like, what the hell is wrong

(51:36):
with you? And I didn't thinkanything about it was funny. And then
I looked back at the mark inthe yard, and somehow, between her
saying that and the visual of thatmark, it was like bam, it
all came back, all of it. It started out with these two big
black eyes superimposed over this mark,and then it was like the floodgates just

(51:59):
open. I remembered the light,I remembered the craft. I remembered the
kids. I remember screaming, youknow, and I literally almost passed out.
I was from that point on,I think I had a nervous breakdown.
Guys. I couldn't sleep. Everytime I closed my eyes, I

(52:21):
saw that that white light, andI saw that face, and you know,
I was kind of a disaster area. I did very little knowledge of
abduction phenomenon or anything like that.Prior to that. I'd seen the Barney
and Betty Hill story on TV onceand I thought it was interesting, and
I'm a little creepy, but youknow, it's not like I went and

(52:45):
read a whole bunch of books aboutit. I had, however, a
few months prior to that kind ofaccidentally picked up Bud's book Missing Time.
I thought it was interesting, andI thought it first had something to do
with, you know, time travelor something, because I was always interested
in stuff like that. Anyway,I got to start reading it, and

(53:07):
I would read you a few paragraphsor maybe a chapter, and I would
have a panic attack and I couldn'tI had never finished that book. I've
never finished Missing Time. But Idid know that in the back of the
book there was an address for theperson that wrote this book, Bud Hopkins,
that if you thought you'd had thiskind of experience, you could write

(53:29):
to him. So and that wasanother thing. Another memory that came fled
back to me was that address.So I went back to the library and
I got the address out of thatbook and I wrote him this like fourteenth
page letter, took a bunch ofpolaroids. I also included my sister's story
in it because I thought hers wasmore like up his alley, maybe because

(53:52):
she actually saw a UFO. Idon't know what I saw. And I
gave the letter to my mom andI asked her to mail it, which
took her a few weeks to do. She resisted, and she said something
finally pushed her into putting it inthe mail, and I don't know,
maybe a month or so later,he actually called and we spoke on the

(54:16):
phone first time. My heart waspounded, and I thought, do I
really want to do this? Andpeople don't realize that this was forty years
ago. We didn't have the Internet, we didn't have computers in the home,
we didn't we didn't have email,we didn't even have cell phones.
So the communication between Budd and Iwas writing letters and well timed after peak

(54:43):
hours long distance phone calls that costeda fortune and could only last like five
minutes, you know. So butdespite that, he decided that he thought
there was enough stuff going on withus that he wanted to come out and
start the investigation. We had.Right after, in April of eighty four,

(55:05):
Mom and I had this terrific sightingof this huge triangular like our I
don't know, it's almost like aboomerang shape craft that was huge. It
hovered flew over our house silently.Mom and I both saw it, and
we contacted Bud immediately, and hecontacted the Center for UFO study who first

(55:28):
had contacted move On and they didn'twant a They didn't want having to do
with us when they found out aboutme in the mark in the yard and
the aliens. So we were actuallyput in contact with Jay Allen Henick at
the Center for UFO Studies up inChicago, which was the next closest place
to us, and my mother spoketo him on the phone a couple of

(55:50):
times and we did some drawings forhim. So, and that was in
April of eighty four, and then, you know, my whole life began
to change, and I thank BudHopkins every day for it, because had
he not come into my life,my life wouldn't even be recognizable now.

(56:13):
The first thing he did was setme up with a buddy so that any
time day or night I felt anxiousor needed to talk to someone, I
could talk to my buddy, andshe was a blessing. And you know,
he arranged for physical he arranged forpsychological testing. He arranged for a
voice stress test which was like alight attention for test. He arranged for

(56:36):
medical testing to be done on methat he got funding for. And I
mean, he really helped me.I reached out to him for help and
he did so, and I feltlike I'm fortunate. I feel like I've
been talking for an hour and onstop. I feel like I'm so fortunate

(56:58):
that I had to support of himand of my family and neighbors and friends
and family who'd been through things withme. And know, I learned later
that most people don't have that thatlike I had, so I wanted to
pay it forward, you know,And that's why I came out and did

(57:20):
what I've done since then. WhenBud decided after like two years that he
wanted to write a book about myfamily and about the experiences that we'd had.
My family and I were both like, now, I don't think so.
That wasn't the that wasn't the idea. That's not why we contacted you.
I just wanted to be normal.I just wanted to have a normal
life and understand this. But heconvinced us that there were lots of people

(57:46):
out there like us, and thatif we spoke out and we allowed people
to study the mark in the yardand my eyes and all that jazz,
that it would help lots of people. So we finally as a family decided
we would let him write the bookas long as he used pseudonyms to protect

(58:07):
us because forty years ago, thestigma. You'd think there's stigma now,
you know, but try forty yearsago. It was ugly and we were
having people show up in our backyardbefore he'd even written a book, and
anybody really know who he were,so we couldn't imagine how it would be

(58:30):
afterwards. That's why we wanted anonymity. Even the Copley Woods is a pseudonym.
It's not the name of the placewhere we lived. But you know,
SI stigma has improved tremendously in fortyyears, but it still has quite
a long way to go. Buthopefully some of what I had contributed will
help. Well, you know,the government officially came out, so it

(58:52):
can't be conspiracy or crazy anymore.Right. I felt a little bit vindicated
from that, you know. Imean, I don't I do not expect
quote unquote disclosure from any government anywhereanytime, but just the fact that somebody's

(59:14):
looking at it and not laughing,not playing you know, corny porn music
in the background and lack tracks androlling their eyes, that actual real politicians
are sitting in a real setting andlistening to these guys. And these people
are impeccable, you know, intheir uh you know, pilots and military

(59:37):
guys with security clearance and all that. You know, it's my hope that
whatever little bit I was able todo by coming forward and speaking out helped
in some way to contribute to lesseningthe stigma that they have to deal with,
because those guys are you know,I'm risk being laughed at or the

(01:00:00):
occasional crazy person like I had onestoker who thought I was a demon and
wanted to kill me. But that'svery unusual in forty years. It happened
once. But these guys are youknow, afraid of losing their pensions and

(01:00:21):
their jobs and their livelihoods and theirreputations and everything else that And these are
guys that we depend on to protectour country in our airspace, you know,
and they have impeccable credentials, andyou know, hopefully now they can
come forward and report things and notbe stigmatized and not be penalized for just

(01:00:43):
telling the truth, you know,all right, Well, never I wanted
to ask you during that time,during your experience, and even afterwards,
or maybe anything beforehand, if anymemories have come back of any kind of
interactions. Were you at a differentin place, you know, while while
all you remember was this occurrence atthe yard, were you at the yard

(01:01:07):
in present whole time? Or youknow, were you somewhere else to where
it felt like, okay, it'sskipped time and I was somewhere else having
discussions or whatever else with somebody else. The reason why I bring that up
is for those who have been youknow, in contact for a long time,
that usually is part of it thatthe only you know, like for

(01:01:27):
example, my mom's case, shepulled into the parking lot next year,
you know she's back there. Youknow what, what in the world is
happening? And so I wanted toask you, either during that event or
any time, if there's any kindof interactions, if they were, if
you could share some of those withus. Well that particularly event. I
mean, I still only remember maybeten minutes of a what Bud was able

(01:01:52):
to figure out between speaking with mymom, my friend and her husband,
and the time I was there,the time it took me to get back
home, I have probably about anhour of missing time that I still don't
remember to this day, forty yearslater, I'm sixty five years old,
and at this point I'm probably notgoing to and also at this point I'm

(01:02:14):
probably don't I don't care. Imean, I'm good with it because whatever
it is, it must be bador you know, scared. I still
don't remember I have. I've hada scattering of uh memories pop back,

(01:02:37):
uh in strange times. I'm doingsomething Monday and like doing the dishes or
something, all of a sudden,I'll I'll have this memory of this or
this vision like come back where I'msomewhere else, you know, not here
on this planet. But I don'tknow how. I don't know how I

(01:03:00):
got there, and I don't Inever remember getting going somewhere or coming home.
I just I am either here orthere. You know, I don't
remember how I got there. Andthat's the case with every experience that I
had where I was out, Likewhen I was a teenager and I was
out in the car with the othertwo girls. I remember being pulled out

(01:03:22):
of the car by my legs.I remember the car being enveloped in some
kind of black mist before I gotpulled out by my legs, and I
don't have any memory after that.The next memory I have is us in
the car and we're driving home andwe're like, oh my god, it's
almost time for your mom and dadto get up. We got a hurry

(01:03:44):
up and get home. We literallyclimbed in the bedroom window to not get
caught because we were out so muchlater than we thought we'd be. But
so no, I don't I don'tremember that. But you know, in
retrospect, I think about that thingin the backyard that we called this craft.

(01:04:04):
And I've heard now people who willsay they go into a small little
room or a small little craft orsomething and then it's just like opens up
into this great, big, wholeother world. And it reminds me of
the time when I was a littlegirl and I went I went into that

(01:04:24):
weird house. I went into thestrange house, and then the boy took
me into his playroom. Well,when we went into his playroom, it
was just humongous. Like, thinkingnow back, there's no way that that
big, giant ass room could havebeen in that little house. So how
did I get? Where did Igo? You know? And I've heard

(01:04:46):
many stories over the years from lotsof folks that have described that same thing,
you know, that they go intoit, they go into a ship
that's a a certain size, butthen it's like they walk into this giant
you know, small town almost.Uh, it's so big. So I
don't I can't. I don't knowif somehow time and space become distorted in

(01:05:12):
all this. Uh. I'm nota science person. I love science,
I want to be, but Idon't know that much about it. So
particularly in that event itself, Wellwas it that was there? Were you
guys just playing or was there anykind of childlike discussions or do you remember

(01:05:35):
anything from you know, from thatwhen I was six, when I was
a little kid and we went toDetroit. You're just told well, you
said, well, you went intothe play room and the room was yeah.
Yeah. Well, you know,my sister was a teenager, but
she was older enough to drive upto Michigan for a weekend. So she
took me with her because I usedto play with her friend's little sister,

(01:06:00):
and so she took me with herand we were outside. I remember,
it's so weird. I remember wehad grilled cheese and to made a suit
for lunch. And then me andEileen were in the backyard playing with the
ball and one of us kicked theball over the fence, and I hopped
the fence to get the ball,and I remember as soon as I picked

(01:06:21):
the ball up and turned around,I was lost. I didn't I was
disoriented, and I wasn't sure whereI was. And you know, I
was in a strange place anyways,I mean, because I was up in
Detroit and lived down here in Indy, so and I didn't see my friend

(01:06:42):
anymore. So I walked around tothe front of the house and I saw
what it looked like the house whereI was supposed to be, and the
door was open. So I walkedin with the ball, and I noticed
that some of the things looked familiarin the house, but yet some things
were a bit like, uh,you know, where there were Normally you'd
see a lamp on a table onan end table, but there was a

(01:07:06):
chair on an end table, youknow. I mean, things were just
slightly off. And as I lookedaround the house, I thought, wait
a minute, this is you know, I remember thinking, this isn't where
I'm supposed to be. I've madea mistake, you know. I turned
around and I started to run outthe front door. And when I turned
around, the little boy was standingbetween me and the door. He was

(01:07:28):
about my size, probably about myage. I thought. He had blonde
hair and big brown eyes. Andhe says, please stay and play with
me, and I'm like, no, I gotta go. And he wanted
me to stay and play. Hesaid he had lots of neat toys that
he wanted to show me. AndI'm like, okay, he got me
with toys. He got me withtoys. So I went into the toy

(01:07:55):
room with him, and when Iremember when he opened the door, I
remember it was so bright and lightand sunny and bright but there was you
know, thinking back now, Idon't remember seeing any lights, but it
was just bright and light and ahuge and sparse, and I'm like,
where are all these toys you're talkingabout? Because I didn't see it was
like there wasn't anything in there.In the middle of the floor. In

(01:08:21):
the middle of the room was likea you know how like a living room
sunken living room looks where it kindof has a step down. Well,
it was kind of. It waskind of like that, and I sat
on the edge of the step andthen these toys started coming up out of
the floor. And I remember puttingsomething on my lap that looked like a

(01:08:42):
homemade When we were kids, weused to make things out of shoe boxes
and stuff. I made a likea guitar out of a shoe box one
time, cut a hole and addstrings across of it. Well, this
thing had a hole and strings acrossit, and I was plucking on the
strings and something. When I asI was plucking on the strings, something,
it felt like something bit me onthe leg and it scared me on

(01:09:04):
my leg and I remember jumping upand I'm like, I gotta go,
And I went through the door ofthe playroom was back in the living room
by the front door, and therehe was again, and he says,
please don't go. And at thattime, a woman, I thought it
was his mother, this big,burly, mean looking lady, came barreling

(01:09:29):
out of the back of the houseand she says, what is she doing
here? She does not belong here. And it was literally like somebody from
behind me shoved me out the door. But I don't remember anybody touching me
that I got. I was pushedout the door, and I'm on the
walk path and I look up andthere's my sister standing at the end of

(01:09:56):
the walk path on the sidewalk,just looking at me. And I think,
oh, I remember just feeling okay, everything's fine. That's sissy,
you know, and I'm okay.And I walk up to her. I
took her hand, and she tookme back to the place where I was
supposed to be. Never I don'tremember any conversation with her. I don't

(01:10:17):
remember her saying anything to me.I just remember that, you know.
We continued our visit. Then wewent home and we drove. We drove
home, you know, And that'sthe memory that I had. That's all
I had, and honestly, Ididn't even think about it for years and
years. And then when Bud camehe, you know, during the course

(01:10:40):
of his investigation and his first visitto Indiana, of course, he interviewed
all the family members, and hewent and knocked on doors and the neighbors.
He interviewed my friends that I'd hadmy life. And one of the
questions that he asked my mom isdo you ever remember anything going on with
her when she was little that shemay not remember? And Mom and Kathy

(01:11:02):
immediately brought up this trip to Detroitwhere I was missing and they were looking
for me all day and it wasmy sister who found me and brought me
back. And that's when I started, I'm like, oh my god.
You know, of course it hadbeen thirty five who had been Let's see,
I was in my twenties, soyou know, I've been quite a

(01:11:25):
while since I had thought about that, and I'm like, oh my god,
I remember that. And that's whenI'm like, I even remember what
we had for lunch. And Budwas able to even speak to the woman
who owned the house that we wentto because Kathy was able to get her
phone number from her one of herfriends who still knew this other girl,
and Bud actually talked to the motherwho made me that sandwich that day and

(01:11:48):
said, yeah, she flat outdisappeared and we were panic stricken and everyone
was looking for me all day,and Kathy's the one that went out and
found me. What you know,that's a weird, weird kind of thing
to have happened to you when you'rea little kid, right. I don't

(01:12:09):
want to skip around too much.I'm sorry. I don't want to confuse
you with the audience listening, butit's just I'm sorry the way my brain
works are popping around. So Iknow earlier you mentioned about the black box
that was presented to you and thatyou would know what to do with it
if you saw it again unless Imissed it. Can you can you please
tell me did you see it again? And what it was all about?

(01:12:31):
I don't die, I don't.I don't know what it was for.
Uh, obviously I remembered it,but I'm not sure. I have a
theory, and I didn't even havethis theory until after I had a conversation
with Whitley Strieber. But uh,it's odd because it was it wasn't too

(01:12:53):
long after that. You know thatI got pregnant with my son, and
I almost died when I had him. He was early, and he was
taken by emergency c section when hewas still he still needed six or seven
more weeks to cook. But theyhad to take him because I went from
a pre acclamsy into a clamsy andmy organs began to fail. My liver

(01:13:16):
was failing, my kidneys were failing, my heart was failing, and they
had to take him or I wasgoing to die. He had more of
a chance of survival than I didat that point. I didn't know that
at the time. My husband andmy mom told me that later. But
so I had went in to haveemergency c section to have him delivered,

(01:13:38):
and I had a near death experienceduring the c section. I actually died
twice on the delivery room table andhad to be revived resuscitated, And during
one of these resuscitations, I hadthis near death experience. And in this
near death experience, I was Itwasn't like your typical one and where people

(01:14:00):
say they saw they see a tunneland a light and dead loved ones in
Jesus and all that I could hearthem talking about I could First of all,
I could feel them cut me open, so but I couldn't move.
But I still could feel, andI could hear them talking, and I
could hear them talking about sailboats atGeist Reservoir. And then all of a

(01:14:21):
sudden, and I tried to shakemy legs to make them know that I
could feel them cutting me open,but I couldn't move. I was paralyzed.
And then their voices suddenly started togo farther and farther away, and
they started sounding like they were inanother room, and they were getting farther
and farther away, and all ofa sudden, I felt this sensation as

(01:14:45):
womp sensation where and I literally Ifeel like I disconnected from my body,
but I was still in it.And I felt like I was in this
black box, like I was trappedin this box. I couldn't see my
hands or feet or anything, butI knew they were there. And I
was pounding on this black wall inthis black box, pounding, pounding,

(01:15:09):
pounding, and I was trying toscream, I'm not dead, Let me
out of here. I'm not dead. And then I heard this voice,
which I think in restrospect was maybea nurse. She whispered and was a
woman whispered in my ear and said, you can't leave yet, you're a
little You have a baby now andhe wants his mother. And I said,

(01:15:29):
I have a baby. You know, when I was trying to get
out of this black box and sayingI'm not dead, this whole life,
I just was leaving or trying toleave, I didn't even remember. I
didn't even realize. I didn't evenremember that I had been pregnant or had
a baby. But then when thisvoice said you have a baby who needs
his mother, and it was like, oh my baby, and I immediately

(01:15:51):
latched back on. I felt back. I was latched back onto this and
the voice is that it sounded sofar away, got louder and louder and
louder, and there were a lotof commotion, a lot of screaming.
I felt myself being picked up andthen dropped back on the table again,
and as soon as I could startbreathing oxygen, I was. It felt

(01:16:15):
so good to get my lungs expandedthat I felt like I was gulping it
down. You know. But duringthis debt, near that experience, I
was trying to get out of mybody or this black box or whatever,
and it held me here. Itkept me here, which was a good
thing, you know, because I'mstill here now, but it wouldn't let

(01:16:39):
me leave. And I was tellingthe story to Whitley, and I also
told us to William Henry, who'san Egyptologist. He knows everything there is
to know about everything in Egypt.And both of them mentioned this something about
in ancient Egypt that there was asoul catcher that was a black box that

(01:17:00):
souls would be kept in so theycouldn't leave, and it was a black
box. And it was just weirdthat I had had this vision with these
or this these two gray things hadcome into my room. And it was
just after Charlie and I were firstmarried, and then was shortly after that
that I was got pregnant with Roband then you know, all that happened,

(01:17:27):
and then I felt like I wastrapped in this black box. And
I kind of Whitley's like, youdon't suppose that something caught your soul in
a black box and prevented you fromleaving, because you kept saying, I'm
not dead, let me out,you know, And uh, yeah,
so I don't I don't know whatall that means, but it's just very

(01:17:47):
fascinating, and you know, sothat's the only thing. The reason I
thought about that reason I mentioned thatis because you know, you asked me
about the black Box. I don'tknow for sure if that's what it was
for to keep me from dying,but it did right, well it was

(01:18:09):
did you go? And I'm sorryif this was an obvious one. I
don't want to like put my footin my mouth, but did you do
any regressions with Bud Hopkins? Actually, you know I did a few.
I'm trying to I'm sorry, justI wanted to ask if you did,
to tell to tell us about itand whatever other memories might have come up

(01:18:30):
about, you know, just havingbasically just having experiences and conversations with these
different beings. Well, I peoplehave to realize that Bud lived in New
York and I lived in Indiana.It was nineteen eighties, so I didn't
have a lot of opportunity. Iwent there a couple of times, he

(01:18:51):
came here a few times, butI didn't have that many opportunities to be
hypnotized by him. The time Iwas hypnotized wasn't even by him. It
was by doctor Aphrodite Lamar, thedoctor that he took me to the first
time I went to New York.I did not remember a whole lot of

(01:19:13):
anything during hypno successions per se,and I know every one of them was
recorded, but I do not havethe recordings, and I don't even know
where they're at at this point sincehe's passed away. But I know they
were all recorded, and there wasat least at one of the sessions.
Tracy Tormet sat in on the session, So I'm trying to think, you

(01:19:39):
know, this has been forty yearsago. I do. There's a one
in particular I recall during the sessionthat we did. We did a session
about my pregnancy that was missing thatyou know, before I had Robbie.
I found out I was pregnant whenCharlie and I were engaged, and I,

(01:20:00):
you know, freaked out because Iwas a teenager still and uh,
I mean we were engaged, butI wasn't didn't want to be a mom
yet, and he didn't want tobe a dad yet and I'm still living
with my parents, and so Ifound out I was pregnant. Mom took
me to the doctor, and wemoved our wedding date from June to April

(01:20:23):
so I wouldn't be huge because itwas a different time, you know,
and you didn't walk down the aislebig and pregnant. That was not acceptable
back in the day when I wascoming up. But nobody cares anymore.
It's no big deal, but itwas back then. So anyway, and
then I had a strange dream onenight while I was babysitting for my sister,

(01:20:48):
and I fell asleep on the couchand I woke up in my niece's
bed, and I felt there wassomething wrong with my baby. So I
went to Eventually I went to Plannedparent and I had a pregnancy test done.
My girlfriend convinced me, she's like, go with me to plan parenthood
because I was freaking out that Iwas just sure there was something wrong with

(01:21:08):
my baby. And she's like,they'll give you a test, it'll be
positive, you'll calm down everything andbe fine. I'm like, okay.
So I went and my test wasnegative. So I really freaked out and
I went home and told my momimmediately, there's something wrong with my baby.
You gotta take me to the doctor. And so she took me to
the doctor and he gave me anotherexam, and then he told my mom

(01:21:30):
and I had to come into hisoffice after I got dressed, and he
said, well, you're not pregnantanymore. And my mom. I remember,
my mom's mouth hit the ground andshe's like, well, did she
have a miscarriage? And I saidno, I've never had any bleeding or
anything like that. And my momasked him, does she need to have

(01:21:53):
a DNC And he said, no, everything looks normal. And he looked
at me and he said, youknow what, we see this from time
to time, and you're young,You're gonna have plenty of other kids.
I think the best thing you cando is just forget this ever happened.
And I'm like, I'm never goingto forget this, you know. I

(01:22:15):
walked around for several months thinking Iwas pregnant and getting used to the idea
changed my whole life for it,And you just want me to forget it
ever happened. No, I don'tthink that's gonna happen. But but it
was never spoken about again. Whenwe left the doctor's office, you know,
we went ahead and got married inApril. Anyways, and and like

(01:22:38):
I said, I got pregnant withmy son like a year or so later,
which turned out, thank god,turned out okay, but was ugly.
But like I said, we neverspoke of that again, and I
never could figure out how I fellasleep on the couch and woke up in
her room and I felt someone touchingme and so and I don't even know

(01:23:03):
why. When Bud came to doingthis investigation, when one of the trips
to Indiana, I don't even knowwhy, I felt compelled to tell him
that I even had a pregnancy thatwas missing because at that what, you
know, I remember the look onhis face. He looked at me like,
oh, I'm so sorry, Andthen I could tell he was thinking,

(01:23:25):
what does this have to do withanything? I mean, why are
you telling me this? And Ibusted out crying in the car and I
said, I don't know why I'mtelling you this, but it means something.
So eventually we did some regression onthat night when I fell asleep on
the couch and I had a horrible, horrible regression session where somebody removed my

(01:23:56):
baby from my body and it washorrible, and I know I was screaming
in the in the in the regressionsession, and it was painful and horrible.
Obviously, I didn't remember any ofit the next morning when I woke
up, but yet I knew somethingwas wrong with my baby. There was
something about with my baby. Sothat was something that I remembered some other

(01:24:25):
under hypnosis, and then after thesession I little bits and pieces more would
come out spontaneously, and then years, a few years later, I can't
remember if it was after I hadI had a dream about I think I

(01:24:48):
had a dream about seeing this baby, and we may have done a regression
session about that, and then Iremembered seeing that that was under a hypno
secession when I actually saw the littlegirl, which she was smaller that she

(01:25:09):
would be several years old at thispoint, and she was with them the
great things, And when I sawher, she was terrified of me,
and it hurt my feelings immediately,I thought, And then I realized,
well, this is all she's usedto. Of course I would be scary
to a little kid, you know. But so those two things. I

(01:25:33):
remembered, most of it under regression, and then some of it came back
spontaneously afterwards, some more of it. But like I said, and then
there was one hypnos secession. Idon't even remember what it was about,
but I remember, under hypnosis wakingup in the backyard at my mom and

(01:25:57):
dad's house, laying on my backand there's this black triangle above me,
and then it takes off and I'mlaying on my back in the backyard and
I get up and I walked tothe back door and the house was locked,
and I knock on the door andmy mom finally comes and lets me
in, and I go in thebedroom. I go in there in then
go to bed, and I mean, this was my hypnosis session. And

(01:26:20):
so Bud's like, do you doyou remember letting her in and you know
when she was in the backyard.Mom said no, I don't remember that.
I don't remember doing that. Buthe asked her if she wanted to
be regressed for it, and shesaid no, thank you. So so
those are sort of the things thatthat's some of the stuff I remembered under

(01:26:42):
hypnosis. Some sessions I didn't rememberanything. Some sessions were just I was
just locked up and it's like nothingwas coming out. Yeah, I know.
Especially, I mean, there's foranyone that initially starts out researching books
of researching uthology and eu folks andbasically any of the published books that are

(01:27:03):
available. That seems to be kindof a common theme to it, to
where especially females, they're pregnant forso many months, weeks and exting,
you know, they're not anymore.And then some even have stories afterwards where
even seems like that the doctors werealmost in on it too, you know,
if there were real doctors, youknow, to be like, no,

(01:27:24):
everything's fine, you know, youwere never pregnant, or all these
other things just to kind of,you know, almost kind of to make
them forget. It almost reminds meof almost one movie was a series.
I want to bring it up,but I'm sorry. I can't remember all
the details for it. Immediately.It's it's something about where they extract the

(01:27:49):
memory or something of what's been happening. It's this I can't remember redheaded actress,
very famous. Can't remember the name, but anyway, she didn't basically
the memories extracted, and so sheshe doesn't, she doesn't remember, and

(01:28:09):
you know, she gets to meetthis other guy who also you know,
she thought she remember him having herdaughter, but then he didn't, you
know, and so they go throughthe process to where then that connection a
love that they have, they endup you know, basically reconnected remembering that
they had children, you know.And then the next thing, you know,
these aliens come in to try toerase them again, you know,

(01:28:31):
and so on. And it waskind of anyway, it was just a
show or whatever. But it whenyou read these different books and all all
these people that give out these differenttestimonies, it's very heartbreaking because I know
my wife and I we had initiallya miscarriage, and it's so weird how
you can have so much love andcare for a being that you know it's

(01:28:51):
a baby, but you've never seenor met, you know, and just
examining that knowing that it's gone andthat it's lost, that it's it's it's
so heart wrenching. You know.I don't know how it's explaining unless you
really kind of went through that experienceyourself, you know. And so I
know, you know, and Iknow I know just from from a dad's

(01:29:12):
mails perspective, how that would feelfor someone that cares and wants to have
the child, you know. Knowingnow because all these books that an issue
was reading about it I mean Iwas a teenager, you know, fifteen
sixteen. You can't really relate whatit's like to be a dad, you
know, to lose somebody or something. So of course I felt sorry,
you know, for them. Butthe older I get and the more you

(01:29:33):
understand these connections, it has it'slike a different view on now on all
these basically contacts, abductees that hadbabies don't have it anymore but are now
with somebody else. It's traumatizing.I mean, you know, I was
just kid. I was a kid, and I was going to get married

(01:29:53):
and have this great life, andthen all of a sudden, I found
out I was pregnant, and I'mlike, oh crap. You know,
it wasn't something I was trying todo, and it took some getting used
to it, you know, andthen I you know, I, like
you said, I attached myself tothis little creature inside of me, this
baby that was mine, and youknow, I was starting to get all
maternal and whatnot, and then itjust turned out to me a nightmare.

(01:30:17):
And I did not when Bud firststarted to write Intruders, once we gave
him the go ahead for Intruders,he approached me and he's like, I
want to put this part in there. I want to put this part in
the book too, about the pregnancy, And I said hell no, and
he's like, why not, andI go, Hi, that is so

(01:30:39):
personal. I mean, regardless ofthe unusual circumstances, I lost a baby
and it's we never spoke of itafter that, and I was I kept
it inside for years and years,and nobody in the family had even spoke
about it. Even my husband didn'tspeak about it. But I never forgot

(01:31:00):
despite what that doctor said. Inever forgot and it, you know,
it was a real personal thing andI didn't want people to make fun of
me about it. I didn't evenunderstand why I brought it up to him,
but for some reason, it felt, you know, I felt like
that I had to, so Idid. But he started telling me,

(01:31:26):
you know, look, there's otherwomen like you out there that have had
this happened to them as well,and this would really be this would help
them, and it will help youtoo, because you'll meet other women that
that you can relate to, youknow. And I I finally relented and
said, okay, you can putit in there. Still people roll their

(01:31:48):
eyes at me, even to thisday, and that's fine. But if
and I've seen a lot of nonsenseon the internet about it and about me,
and if it's I feel if thestory is going to be told,
then I want to be the oneto tell it because it's my story and
it's my life. And so youknow, that's why I spoke up like

(01:32:11):
I did. And I don't know. At the end of the day,
I don't know anything for sure,nobody does, but I know it's in
my heart and I know what Iremember, So you know, take it
as for whatever however you can.You know, I don't expect anybody to
believe anything I say, but justkeep your mind open because you could be

(01:32:33):
next. It could be somebody thatyou love that has to go through this.
I would I was worried, likeI told, but I don't want
to be that woman on the WorldWeekly World News, you know, says
she had five hundred alien babies,and I'm like, I'm not that woman.
I got what. I got pregnantone time with my I assume my

(01:32:56):
husband and my I had this incident, you know, this strange thing happened
at my sisters, and then mypregnancy just disappeared. I don't know where
it went, so it's it's notlike that, but some people just want
to think that it is, andmaybe they maybe it scares them too when
they hear me tell it actually insteadof reading a bunch of nonsense about it

(01:33:21):
makes you know what I mean?Right? Well, never, thank you
very much. It's you know,for sharing all this information. I really
really appreciate it. Would it beall right if I put it out there
to see if if somebody has somequestions to put forth for you, and
if not, then we can fishup after the last question. If it's

(01:33:41):
okay with you, I know we'regoing at it for about hour and a
half. Okay, you know,I'm sixty four years old, I'm almost
sixty five, and it's been alifetime of stuff, so I could go
on and on and on. Soyes, please any questions. I love
questions. Okay, well of youwatching if you haven't been with us since

(01:34:01):
the beginning, I mentioned that ifyou could, please put three asterisks before
your question so that way I knowit's meant for Deborah, and please submit
them now. I'm going to askher another question to give you enough time
to submit yours, and if thereare not that many questions, then we'll
finish it up here. And I'malready grateful enough for the amount that she
has shared with us. So thebasically, do you do you think that

(01:34:30):
this I don't know if I wantto call it program because it's not what
you called it, but you know, basically, it's kind of a loaded
question because I already know a lotof the different information about this stuff.
But if all these things that werehappening for all the women that eventually would
you know, have their babies missingfor them, do you think this has

(01:34:50):
stopped now when it comes to youknow, these grays or whoever these different
aliens are, or do you thinkthis is still going on? Well,
it certainly stopped for me. Imean I haven't had anything weird like that
happened for years and years. ButI still hear stories of women that have

(01:35:12):
been pregnant and then their pregnancy hasjust disappeared. I still hear it.
I don't know if it's stopped ornot. I don't think it's stopped.
I don't know what the status isof it though, but like I said,
I do still hear women talk aboutit. So right, Okay,

(01:35:38):
So I have one question from Pauliasking if did she have This happened often,
the missing pregnancy after eight weeks.No, it happened once, okay,
all right? And so also wasof I mean, you could be

(01:36:01):
pregnant six weeks pregnant not even knowyou're pregnant. But I'm aware of only
this one, right, Yeah,I know I know somebody just personally close,
you know, not close friends,but somebody I know who I see
fairly often. They were basically like, oh, I had something going on
there, the stomach ache, youknow, and they didn't realize why only

(01:36:24):
to know It's like, hey,it's it's contractions and it's time for baby.
It's like, how can you notknow? You know, because most
of the time women always talk about, oh, I realized immediately when I
was pregnant, you know, Iknew it. I just knew it.
There was something about it, youknow. But and then there's these other
ones that were like, what,I just thought I had a belly ache.
Yeah, it depends on the woman. I think. Now, there
was a time I do have amemory of I call a dream. I

(01:36:48):
had a dream that I was handeda little baby boy. And I mean
this baby was frail, little frail, poor little thing. Human baby boy
had dark haired, dark eyes,but when he looked at me with his
eyes, he looked like the oldestsoul there ever was. And I was

(01:37:10):
told somebody was telling me to holdhim close, because that was me holding
him close, was nourishing him,was feeding him with my you know,
by holding him and loving on him. I don't think it was mine,
but it was just this pitiful littlebaby. And I named him Andrew.

(01:37:35):
I don't know why I named it, but I remember the name. I
said, I'm gonna call you Andrew. But that's the only other time I
remember interacting with a baby. ButI'm not sure whether he was mine or
not, but I don't But no, as first pregnancy goes, just the

(01:37:57):
only one. I remember that oneright well, Deborah, Actually I was
just gonna finish up. Another questioncame in, So this one is from
Crystal. It says maybe it wasalready answered, but was it only one
type of alien evolved in her abductionand the other species. I've always been

(01:38:19):
the little gray guys is what Icall him. But I have had a
couple of interactions with people or wholook like people anyway, human beings,
very beautiful, tall, Nordic lookingpeople like I've had a couple of interactions

(01:38:45):
with people like that, and thenone time some strange interaction with a kid,
a guy who looked like me,only the male version of me,
like my twin brother, and thenhe was escorted by two very tall,
all slender, dark haired, darkeyed, kind of gauthy looking guys.
So, but they all looked human. So it was either humanoid or human

(01:39:09):
looking or the little gray dudes.I haven't had any. My sister Kathy
seemed to have had some kind ofcontact with what people call mantis type,
and I have had friends who haveseen what they called the reptilian type.
I, as far as I know, I've never seen anything like that personally,

(01:39:30):
right, Okay, muse is saying, I'm sixty three, raised near
Detroit in Portland, Huron is thatDetroit area known for paranormal encounters. Might
know, I don't know. Idon't know. Okay, j L is

(01:39:50):
asking any out of body experiences.Yes, actually I had one when I
was a kid, and it wasa maze ly strange and it scared the
poop out of me because it scaredme. I was I was just a
little kid, I was so attachedto my older sister. I adored her,

(01:40:11):
and she was down at the neighbor'shouse spin in the night one night
and I wanted to go, andshe I couldn't go, you know,
so, and I remember Mom putput us to bed, and I was
laying there wanting my sister so bad. And all of a sudden, I'm
in the front yard and it's weirdbecause the light was strange. The light.
It was kind of dim and kindof an odd color, and there

(01:40:35):
was a wind blowing, and somebodybehind me was saying, put your arms
out and lean into the wind,and you couldn't fly. So I put
my arms out and I leaned intothe wind and I lifted up, and
I went down to my sister's friend'shouse and I went through the bedroom window,

(01:40:55):
and I remember being up on theceiling watching my sister and her friend
roll each other's hair with orange juicecans and play records, and I wanted
to get down there and be withthem. And I was watching them,
and all of a sudden, Ihad this fear come over me that,
oh my god, I'm not goingto be able to get back home.
I'm going to just float away andthe moment that I had that thought,

(01:41:21):
I woke up and I was inmy bed and the next day I told
my sister, I saw you andDenise roll your hair with orange juice cans.
And she looked at me, likewhat. And I said, I
saw you and Denise roll your hairwith orange juice cans. And she looked

(01:41:42):
at my mom and she's like,how does she know that? And I'm
like, because I was there.I was up in the corner in the
ceiling, and there looked at melike I was crazy, But by god,
I was there. But it scaredme. And I think I didn't
never do it again for a longtime because scared me. Right, Paul

(01:42:03):
is having another question, says Ihave already been answered, but did her
whole family have experiences? Me,my older sister, my mother, As
far as we know, my dad, he said he was psychic, but
he never reported anything like this.My little brother won't talk about it.

(01:42:28):
Mom did whip out some of hisold school papers to show Bud that when
he was in elementary school he woulddoodle on the side of his papers,
and he was doodling an alien headwith big black eyes. And this was
back in the sixties, so buthe won't talk about it. He's freaked
out by it. My little sisterhad a lot of psychic things happened to

(01:42:49):
her, and a lot of youknow, paranormal things, but she doesn't
really have any alien like contact asfar as we know. So it's just
that has just been mom, meand my older sister. Okay, well,
Deborah, thank you very much.I really appreciate it. I know

(01:43:11):
it's close to eight something here now, so it's what nine something in your
place already close nearing ten o'clock.Yeah, well, thank you, Thank
you again. I don't want toI don't want to keep you up much
longer, but because you were sogracious to share so much with us.
So for all of you watching,there's information you can read up on Extraordinary

(01:43:32):
Contact Live Beyond Intruders by Deborah Cobbles. So the link is a description below.
I hope you check it out.She has the website. I hope
you check that out as well.And Deborah, I want to just leave
you with the last words whatever youwould like to share before we sign off.
Yeah. Well, you know,I just appreciate you thinking of me.

(01:43:53):
It's been a long time since we'vetalked, and I always enjoy always
I'm happy to put myself out there. And if anybody needs anybody, you
know, to listen, you canwrite to me through my website use email
contact there. And if you wantto share your experiences with me you just

(01:44:13):
need somebody to talk to, feelfree to you know. I try to
answer everybody, and thanks again forhaving me. I appreciate it. All
right, Well, please stay put. Let me just sign up for you
real quick. Everyone else, thankyou so much for watching. Tune in
next week Wednesday at seven, Imight have open lines or not a guest.

(01:44:34):
I will let you know, butthanks very much for joining us,
and I hope you have a restof you have a good rest of the
day, all right, you alltake care. Debrah, thanks, take
care and we'll talk

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Extraordinary Contact: Life Beyond "Intruders" | Q&A | Debra Kauble | UFO HUB #99