UN/SUPPRESSED EP 024 "Recommended Back Packs"

Avery shows some of his recommended Back Packs from Tactical Tailor.

Be Cool like Wes and get an UN/SUPPRESSED T-shirt on Groundzeromerch.com
https://groundzeromerch.com/products/mens-classic-tee?_pos=1&_sid=a8203c8fb&_ss=r

Check out TACU
https://www.instagram.com/tac.university/

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Am Wes and welcome to Unsuppressed.They have a great episode for you guys
today, and uh yeah, we'regonna continue the discussion on gear. We're
gonna look at backpacks. I suppose, as per requested by Bill over there.
Well, I don't thought that's reallya fair way to put it.
So when you have something you haveto carry shit around in, typically use

(00:27):
a backpack, and having a decentbackpack, something you can rely on or
something that has the proper storage isgoing to be probably advantageous. And then
we're not talking about skyfall or anythinglike that. We're just talking about utility
stuff, just be able to godo stuff. So ay, Yeah,
obviously Avery's are resident expert product developmentspecialists and all that stuff. So I

(00:49):
would rather him take all control becauseI always tend to learn a lot.
Yeah, I've got an old condorthat I've used for my just regular everyday
carry stuff and it's it's fine forthat, but I wouldn't trust it if
I need to go into the woodsand survive for a week. I don't
plan on going to the woods tosurvive for a week anyway, but I
mean what if I had to,you know, I mean the idea is

(01:10):
I think it's by volume, butall that our professional explain it, not
as layman. Yeah. Well,yeah, there's a lot of things to
consider when you're looking at what typeof bag you want to carry with you.
I mean, obviously any sort oftools, like if you're going to
be you know, out there withspecial equipment or anything like that, or
how long you're going to be outthere for. I think typically the predetermined

(01:36):
length of time of being unsupported inthe field environment is roughly three to four
days. That's kind of where mostpeople draw the line, and that kind
of gets you to somewhere around afifty to sixty pound pack, depending on
all the different things that you're packingin and caring and whatnot. So,
you know, you have a coupleof different genres or subcategories. You kind

(01:57):
of have the tactical outdoor person whois going to be patrolling or whatever you
want to call it, and thenyou have kind of the bushcraft person who's
out there building kind of infrastructure outin the woods to be able to I
guess you could maybe say extend thelevel of time that they're able to be

(02:20):
self sustained out there, because realistically, the amount of space and resources you
need to be self sustained is unrealistic, so and most of us don't have
the skill sets to be able todo it anyways. So really what we're
looking at tonight is going to bethe tactical side of things and the ability
to carry a ruck with maybe someoperational equipment and be able to function in

(02:43):
the function away from life support forthree to four days. So I know,
Bill, you've got an alice pack, right and that how long would
you say that can go for?I think with if I could sustain water
and food, the way you setit up becomes in an indefinite like as

(03:04):
long as you get minor resupply,you could live out of that. Eventually
you're going to come to the elements. But I mean you had everything between
all cold weather gear, you hadall the medical pieces, you had tarps,
you had all, I mean everythingto make it so you could live
and have basically a level of sheltereven though if it's hasty, and if

(03:28):
you had bushcraft skills, I thinkit could be something you could definitely easily
do a week, win easily doa week, as long as you have
food and you're able to purify water. Yeah, So food is really what
it comes down to when it talkswhen you're talking about length of time,
because we all make the assumption thatwater is going to be available, because
you're not really going to be ableto carry a large amount of water with

(03:49):
you and your life support on yourback all at once, and so we
just automatically assume that you're going tofind some source of water or be maneuvering
towards sources of water that you don'thave to carry around. You know,
I think it's seven pounds per gallonor something like that for water, So
I think you consume roughly a gallona day if you're kind of like conservative

(04:11):
with your water supply when you're outthere actively moving and stuff. So,
so what you have to consider isthe types of rucks that you're going to
be carrying or bags that you're goingto be carrying in it. That breaks
down into two categories. So we'vealready talked about like the purpose, right,
and that breaks down into two categories, and then the bags themselves kind
of break down into two categories aswell. You have the external frame rucks,

(04:34):
which I'll pull up an example,and you have the internal frame rucks
So what that means is external frameis a old school Vietnam era alice frame
ruck, which is usually an aluminumframe and the bag goes on that and
then that gets strapped to your backand it's a lot more comfortable than it
sounds. But then there's the internalframe bags, which usually has two aluminum

(04:56):
stays that allows for support and rigidityand allows a proper transfer of weight to
your hips. Ultimately, with anyof these bags, you want to be
able to transfer the weight of thebag to your hips. That's going to
make it more comfortable for you andit's going to allow you to go longer
distances with less fatigue. So ultimately, ultimately that's what you're shooting for.
Sometimes you run into an issue withflexibility of haack size. So like a

(05:21):
bag that's set up the bill isnot going to fit west very well right
because there's a height difference there.So usually when when that's an issue,
you look for a bag that isproportioned or size to you, and if
you go to any outdoor store,they'll actually size you up for a bag.
Now, those aren't tactical bags,right. Tactical bags are typically pretty

(05:43):
generic in nature, but you canget an idea for like what size bag
fits you correctly, and then whenyou go to get a tactical bag,
you can kind of see which onefits those categories or fits those dimensions for
you. I should say, anybodyhave anything to add, Yeah, I
was gonna say, like, well, within the scope of buying a bag,
though I almost say, it's almostlike a gaming environment, right,

(06:06):
So it doesn't matter what the baglook looks like if it's meeting all the
mission standards that you're trying to use, because hopefully you're not on a two
way range when it's going on,you know, because you know, if
it's a big orange bag and it'sdoing everything he needs to do. Great.
If you're looking at into like anassault like an assault system, Like

(06:26):
if you're a smaller more what isthat, like a three liter bag or
whatever, it's a smaller, smallersetup, so you're looking at it,
you know, supplies for less thana day, then that might be a
little bit more of like you know, absolute you don't have extras, but
like like the Alice pack, LikeAlice large is an amazing backpack. It
fits me great. The frame act, I mean, well, the world's

(06:47):
made for people who are five ten. That's the right. So all this
stuff fits and I can put ittogether and the weight transfer is great.
I've also had I haven't had likethe real modern like like the Mystery Ranch
stuff or like you know, allour the Arctics bags that are that that
load your hips better. So Idon't I can't really speak to that.
I oh, and I do havean internal frame pack with the Maxpedition pack,

(07:11):
but I don't have enough hours onit to really say whether or not
which one I like better. Iknow that if I was going into it,
you know, it should hit thefan deel. I'd much rather have
the cargo capability of the Alice packover like a three DS soul pack because
the Alice pack has huge pockets andhas just it's really a generic. It
could do a lot and you canmake it work, So go ahead.

(07:35):
Yeah. Some of the things toconsider too, you kind of touched on
as the sizing, and so itdepends on where you're at and who you're
talking to. But usually if cubicinches and leaders are the two sizing systems
that they use, and I mean, I don't know what that means to
someone, right, because for example, your outer jacket that you have might

(07:57):
be some synthetic jacket that's big loftto it, where I have a down
jacket that packs up the size ofa football or something like that. Right,
So to sit there and say,well, all you need is a
sixty liter bag is not true becausewe have different equipment, we have different
expectations, we have different environmental concerns. So for somebody who lives, you

(08:18):
know, in the tropics, they'relike, yeah, all you need is
a bugnet and a tart, rightfor monsoon season or whatever. Right,
we're up here. You need allthree pieces of your sleep system so you
can stay warm when you're sleeping outin the woods. So those are things
to consider. Really, the measurementshould be so that your own frame of
mind. So when you're looking ata bag that you currently have or that

(08:39):
you've loaded out or somebody else's loadedout, and you know you have a
similar load, I can buy,well the size bag is a sixty leader
or ninety leader, you know,then you can be like, okay,
so that's probably where I should belooking at for the type of bag.
Now, one of the things toremember when you are talking about sizing is
you will always fill pockets. Soif you have space in a you will

(09:00):
always fill it. So that's somethingto consider when you're, you know,
building your load out. And Ialways recommend when you do a load out
you lay it all out on theground so you know exactly what you're putting
in there. Is called the layoutin the military, is what they like
to call it. But the reasonwhy it's important for you to do a
layout is because you might see somethingYou're like, why do I have two
of these things and I only needone of these things? Or well,

(09:22):
I didn't realize that that thing actuallydoes the thing that this thing does,
right, And so you can reduceor know that you have redundancies intentionally,
you know, it's always good tohave redundancies, but sometimes in certain applications,
like do you need two shovels?Probably not. A shovel is a
really heavy piece of equipment, Soyou don't need two shovels. And I'm
just using that as a dumb example, but you guys get kind of what

(09:43):
I'm saying. It's a great exampleactually, because yeah, I mean that's
one of them. They don't needfour knives. Just take me. You
might have to take out somebody likea nija. Well, the only time
I would say I would disagree withyou is when the knife or let's say
knife, because that's the example youuse, serves a certain purpose, right,
So like I have this special knifeand that's not down here, but

(10:05):
I have this knife that I justchopped up a cherry tree in the backyard
that fell over in the last storm, and like that knife does everything,
literally does everything. I need thatand maybe a little pocket folder. But
if I don't have that knife,well now I need an act. Now
I need some you know, morea knife or something, you know,
like a fixed blade knife so Ican do batoning with and like all these

(10:26):
different things. So sometimes in certainsituations, yes, it would be nice
to have more of these tools.You know, in a situation where like
we're talking about knives, who isone, one is none type of situation
in case you lose one, youbreak one, one goes dull things like
that, or one might serve adifferent purpose. But you're right, in
many situations, your leatherman has aknife your pocket. You know, you
have a knife in your pocket.Most people have a fixed blade on their

(10:48):
belt, and then who knows whereverthere's another knife stash, you know,
for reasons, you know, likeyour keychain or you know whatever. Right,
So that's something to consider too,because you could chop off a lot
of weight by leaving extra pieces ofequipment like knives at home. What isn't
the role ounces equal pounds and poundsequal pain? Yeah? Is that what

(11:09):
they say? That's the state.So I mean that's like the guy that
has instead of just having two biglighters, he has all the the associated
ship to make fire, and it'slike that's like that's a big waste of
space and the whole scheme of thingstechnology works, so he can we sidetracked
for a second. So on thetack of You website or on the tack

(11:31):
you Instagram, we talked about fire. We're going to talk about fire this
week, and uh we asked thequestion if you would rather have a phariseum
rod or a big lighter or matches. Nobody picked matches, which is great,
but I think pharaseum rod won outover the big lighter. So we're
going to do some experiments because Ithink there's a lot of miss miss uh

(11:52):
conceptions about bick lighters and phariseem rods. Ye say this, you strike it
striker, so then you have tomake tender and you have to instead of
just going click, that's now fireand then make fire. Yeah, you
joked about that last week when youwere here. We're like, yeah,
he takes his fire tools really seriouslyapparently, Yeah, dude, because fire
is life, you know what Imean. I mean, if you have

(12:16):
the opportunity to carry things and carrythem, but if you were presented three
pieces of equipment and you only getone, pick one, I would absolutely
pick the big lighter. I mean, think about it. It's a light
source. It's a signaling device becauseyou can flick it and and that's the
same with pharaseum. But you know, it's a signaling source, is a
lighting source. If the if thegas is gone, you still have a

(12:37):
farseum inside the wheel and flint that'sinside the big lighter itself, so you
can still catch smaller tender on fireand then start a fire that way too,
right, So like I don't Idon't understand it. Then, like
Bill was pointing out, like youneed to have this big package to go
along with it. You need tohave, you know, some cotton,
or you need charred cloth, oryou need you know, hemp rope or

(12:58):
you need you know, this thingto catch your spark, whereas I can
take a piece of tape and lightit like a candle and now I actually
have a decent flame going where Ican't do that with a pharisee rod.
So we're going to talk about thatthis week on the Instagram for the attacking
stuff. But I just say allthe people I was going to say,
all the people that have their shoestring and two sticks that you know,

(13:20):
look, you can probably find abetter option than a powder horn. And
then you know all your you're you'redowing you know, dowaling rod too.
So just saying more three sir.But if you run out of your ammunition
and you need to load that musketthrough you you mailed dog toenails or whatever,
I don't you deserve to die.No, So with that mind,

(13:43):
when you if you were since you'vebeen in arid environments training and you've and
and lived out of a bag,and you've been in our environment like in
the Northwest, we don't worry aboutwater. Well water sourcing in the desert
is a little bit more of athing. So now when you're let's say
you're moving from position to a position. Right, you're gonna say, I'm
going to go from point A topoint B. You're obviously going to go

(14:05):
water sourcing if you're going far now, So is that how you actually orient
your map when you start doing map? Yeah, so you're talking about your
your route routes on right, Yeah, route selection. So you're looking at
your map and you're like, well, where are we going? We want
to end up over here, butto get there, you know, it's
five days of walking. Let's say, you know, like when I was
living in Idoh, i'd have towalk if I was with something like what's

(14:26):
that stupid earthquake thing everybody says isgoing to happen, Cascidia seduction zone.
So when when when that allegedly isgoing to happen. But if I had
it happened, you know, whenI was in Idaho, like then I
have to like walk, you know, knowing where water sources are because I
mean that's especially during the summertime,like no way, So you know.

(14:46):
One of the things to really considerthough, is like the ability to carry
water, like having the vessels tocarry water. So that's real platypus kind
of thing. Yeah, especially,that's something I don't forgive me if we've
talked about it before. Something Ihave all wondered about is how much water
showed be packing on me? IfI'm going out for say four days,
how much water show I bring withme versus? Because we talked about water

(15:07):
filters having one of those, becauseit is it's super heavy. Obviously it's
the most important thing for you tohave to keep your body running. But
it's really heavy. So what whatamount of water should I take with me
if I'm going out and then youknow, obviously when I run out,
I want to filter whatever I canfind. But what is that amount that?
Is there a number or is itjust whatever you have room for where

(15:28):
you got Yeah, so there's somany different things. So right here,
I just Google search you real quick, and it says two gallons of water
per person per day. So whatdoes that mean? Like? Is that
also for hygiene? Is it forjust drinking? You know, different things
like that. I think it's reallysubjective based on where you're going, what
you're doing. Are you planning onbeing a stinky boy the entire time?

(15:50):
Are you just talking about drinking untilyou get to a body of water that
you can then you know, dothings clean and refresh your water When I
go hiking, I what I woulddo is I would have two bladders in
analgaene. So if I was goingto empty one bladder, then I'd fill
the other bladder up. And Ithink that was a little conservative. I
think that was I could probably gettwo like the two bladders empty, which

(16:12):
is about four liters of water,So I had five liters on me if
I but I would just kill onebladder and then I'd have the other bladder
and the analogaine full of water.Now, one of the good tricks to
do is when you go to awater source to fill up, you fill
yourself up because you're the best vesselto carry water in. So, you
know, the first thing I dois I fill my analogye up if if

(16:33):
that's empty, or I have youknow, container, I throw some electrolytes
in there or something like that.And as I'm filling up my other vessels,
I you know, drink that thatbottle of water, and I polish
that water off before I step offfor the rest of the trip or the
next section of the trip. Howhow effective or how quick does a do

(16:55):
the the purifiers work? Can youact. If you're talking about literally do
that, yeah you can. Ifyou're talking about the like the Soyer ones
that we were talking about last timeI was on, those aren't instantly,
so you you know, if yousqueeze the bag, it pushes the water
through quicker and depending on which oneyou have, determines the flow rate,
and it usually has the flow ratemarked on the packaging. So you know,

(17:18):
I think I showed you a biggerone. There's two versions of the
Soyer one. The bigger one hasa higher flow rate. Also, the
amount of particulately that's inside the waterwill clog up the filter, so you
you know, that's why it's niceto backflush it every now and then so
that you can still have that highflow rate. So you can you can
do what you said build and youcan have like a dirty bag and a

(17:40):
clean bag, and the dirty bagis gravity feeding into the clean bag.
And then by the time you getto your camp site, let's say you
have your water purified. It's alittle bit more of a challenge because now
you have two bladders separated by athing, and you're, yeah, but
you can't do it. It ispossible. I was looking in the context
of all, right, you haveyour your you have your dirty water,

(18:00):
you polish all your clean water.Let's say you let's you exhausted your clean
water, or you had just enoughto get your analgene backfull. You take
two dirty bags, or you haveyour dirty bags and you have your clean
bags. You make your dirty bagswet, you hang them, you take
off when you get to your nextstopping point or whatever. You do your
thing, and you know, andmake them clean. And then so that

(18:22):
would I mean, that would makesense just because now it's you're not really
stopping, You're always moving until youget to your camping point, and then
you clean the water up. Andthen of course, I mean, now
my next question would be, becausewe're going to talk since we're talking about
fire and water, which is youknow, kind of important ship, do
you do you boil the water ifif you can to keep to make it

(18:47):
super clean, uns on where you'reat. I have never done that,
but I've never been in a situation. I've never been so hard up for
water that I had to do it. And wait, hold on, I
think there was one time. No, no, there's never been a time
where I personally have been hard up. Now I had a situation where my
friends had to get me water andI don't know where that came from,

(19:08):
and I didn't care, that's howdesperate we were. But but no,
the only time I threw purification tabsinto something was in the Squally River,
which is up in Washington. Somost important thing is is everybody don't get
water from a static or what dothey call it? Stationary, stationary or

(19:30):
non stagnant water. The movie YeahWay Wild comes to mind where she's walking
on the PCP and she's in Oregonand a PCT so a crest trail,
and she was just right towards themovie, she's somewhere in Oregon and she's
out of water in the middle ofthe summertime and she's just dying a thurst,

(19:51):
and so she had to go andrun it through a filter. It
was a nasty, stinky mud puddle. Basically, it's like a stagnant water
puddle, and she ran through andput id. One had to treat it
right there to or drink it becauseshe was dehydrated. Yeah, well,
within the well, within the scopeof that is is also if you are
saying I'm going to be gone indefinitelywithout any ms capability or any way to

(20:15):
extract out and be gone. Soif you're going to Tarkov and you're never
coming back out, drinking the wateris not a good idea. But if
you're like death for sure or sickin three days, I'm going to taste
sick in three days, you know, and taking my chances there. We
talked about that. It's just,you know, it's just what's what's going
to work. So so in so, you take analgene bottle, like one

(20:37):
of like the little thirty two ounceones, like a thirty two ounce algen,
and then you have to to youhave how many clean bags do you
carry? I'm actually switched over tothese these uh, these yeah ones because
they're white tops. If you haveto p and them, you can p
and them easier. They hold youknow, what is it? Sixty four?
It holds more water than thirty two. That shit tastes good too,

(20:59):
by the way, and it's fiftyliters or fifty ounces excuse me, fifty
ounces one point five an orange flavor. Oh yeah, yeah, But I
mean I'm just talking about the containersthemselves, because if I'm in a civilian
backpack, they usually have deep pocketsand so this fits in there where analgen
you know, sinks down inside analgenesare also a lot heavier. This is
actually the dimensions of my snow peak, the titanium scove, so it fits

(21:26):
in there and everything's just like analgene. I literally have one of those bottles
here. After I was like,I'm not throwing that away. I'm keeping
that now because you know, I'mjust a good idea. It's a good
idea and they're vunerable. So yeah, so that's that's what I would like
when I do the Timberline Trail.That's what I do typically. Like I
said, it's pretty conservative with thehaving you know, is three three liters

(21:48):
of water left over, you know, but it's also kind of nice to,
you know, once you get downinto a valley where you know glacier
runoff water is that is kind ofnice to take a couple of minutes and
take a break and kind of likelook at your map and you know,
purify some water, have a snack, pick a piss, you know that
type of stuff, and then stepback off. So but in a tactical
environment, being near water is verydangerous because everybody knows you need water,

(22:12):
so you want to get in andget out as quickly as possible, leaving
as little evidences as possible so thatyou can avoid detection. But with packs,
you know, that's something to consider, is where you're going to be
putting your water, because you wantto have it accessible on the outside of
your bag. You want to beable to like Bill suggested, having a

(22:32):
gravitational feed and then I will wecan fire this up now, I guess,
go and screenshare with us, sowe can take a look at some
awesome stuff. An alice pack onmalice pack. But yes, so the
alice pack with more malice, yeah, yeah, So the alice pack was
a backpack that was issued to soldiersduring the Vietnam time frame. I don't

(22:55):
believe it was issued during the KoreanWar, but it was mostly during the
Vietnam War. And they came inthree different sizes of small, medium,
large. The small one was verysmall, it was like a butt pack
like it was a large butt packwas very small. The medium was obviously
bigger, but it didn't have thesethree magazine pouches on the outside of it.

(23:17):
And then and that medium was actuallywhat was issued to most soldiers back
in the day, and then therewas a large, and the large had
these three magazine pouches that was onthe front of the of the bag,
and that's kind of like how youcould tell the differences in the bags.
Oh, I'm sorry. The smallhad a slit at the top of the
flat for the radio and intended forBack in the old days you had these

(23:37):
big brick radios that went into abackpack. Small was designed to carry that
radio and it had a slit sothe intent and the handlight could come out
of it easily. So those arekind of the distinctions of a small,
medium, and large bag. Well, the tactile tailor offers a malice pack,
which is a alice pack on steroids. One of the things a lot
of soldiers would do is myself included, is modify the alice pack so that

(24:03):
it has more pockets on the outsideof it. There's typically three GP or
general purpose pouches on the outside ofthem to one size and then one slightly
bigger than the other two, andthat would be set up in a configuration
so you could easily assess like ponchos, vortex jackets, things like that.
Right, Well, people like tohave access to some of their mission essential

(24:26):
equipment. So people start sewing morepouches onto their bags. I did that
when I was active duty, andso did a lot of other people.
Did I do that to your bag, Bill, Yeah, I have a
badass bag, just saying so,I think I believe I sewed two side
pockets on additionally, so it hadfour matching pockets. But yeah, the

(24:48):
three magazine pouches that I mentioned earlier, people typically didn't put magazines and them.
They just put like a hygiene kit, a boot shine kit, and
like something else, like their blanketafter something dumb in there, you know.
And then that was so you couldeasily get to those things when it
was when you're in the patrol base, you know, getting ready to move
out next day. Well, thefunny thing is is that the Alice pack,

(25:10):
though, is really adaptable. It'ssuper it's super easy to get into.
It doesn't have zippers and all kindsof silly shit on it. It's
just fast X buckles pop it.It used to be uh frad yes,
yes, the originally yeah, andback in the you know, they didn't
know we wanted to belcro zippers backin the old day because it made too

(25:33):
much noise, and you know thatwas a big deal to them. So
so yeah, this is a nowsback. Is an external frame bag.
So the neat things about external framesis you can lash things to it,
so it gives you a little bitmore versatility. So if you're using it
as a pack meal, you know, you can strap animal cans to it.
You can strap five gallon gas cansor water cans to it. You

(25:53):
can pack in your supplies if you'redoing that, and that's kind of cool
about it. You just use shoulderpads, you take the bag off,
and then you strap whatever it isyou want to. But people have you
done it with fifty cows and differentthings like that in the past. But
the alice pack for an external bagis kind of the industry standard or malice
pack, excuse me, it's kindof the industry standard for everybody. It's

(26:15):
jumpable, so people have jumped themout of airplanes and it's it's a great
bag. There's one version three thatthat Tactle Tailor makes. It has a
sleeping bag compartment on the bottom ofit. I hate it. I think
it's the dumbest thing ever because itallows you to fit a full three layer
military sleep system in there, andthe thing hits your butt as you're walking.
It swings back and forth, andit's dumb. If you're going to

(26:37):
strap this to the side of avehicle like a striker or you know,
your jeep. You can do that. Fine, I don't care, but
you know, for for somebody who'sgonna have to walk with their backpack.
Version two is my opinion, thebest bet. What do you mean that
comes with the seat. It hasa cushion, you can just sit down.
Yeah, they pull it back abit like, oh yeah, they

(26:59):
show the internal fre okay. Sothe one that I have is an exposed
frame so that you guys can seethe frame in the picture. Now.
One thing Avery's not saying is thatthat frame area you put shit in,
like your tarps and bungies and allkinds of stuff, and there is there's
no waste space. I benefited fromfrom a ranger doing ranger shit, saying

(27:19):
you should do this. You putit together this way, and it all
fits. It's insane, so youcan you can obviously model the crap out
of these things, and that's justreally cool about them. When I was
in the ranger school, I tookthe there's corrigated plastic that comes in the
AMMO cans for blank Ammo, andI basically taped it together with him my
R tape and made a postpad forit, or a sleeping pad, and

(27:41):
I stuck that insight in between theframe and myself so that I had something
in the event I had to takea knee or I want to sit down
or something real quick, I justpull it out. So there's a lot
of these neat little mods you cando to it. I don't have one
here right now, but you know, you put you can put your tarp,
your poncho, different things like that, so you can have extra storage
space. Or if you're in atropical environment, which is what this was

(28:03):
designed for, it creates really goodairflow, so your back can stay cool,
your body can stay cooler, whichis one of the disadvantages of the
excuse me, which is one ofthe disadvantages of the next one. But
I like more, which is aninternal frame bag. And so this guy
is the extended range operator pack andit has a two aluminum stays on the

(28:26):
inside of the bag, kind ofnext to each shoulder compartment there. But
what's nice about this in my opinionis that sits closer to the body because
the frame, the external frame bag. The way it's designed is that the
bag stands off from me. LikeI said with the airflow, Well,
this sits closer to your body,so it's a little bit more comfortable and
you're a little bit more agile.I don't think it tires you as quickly

(28:49):
either. And it has more storagespace I believe square inches or leaders.
I think it has more in it. And this one has Molly on it.
So you basically set it up theway you want to set it up.
Now do with the supports? Isthat how it ends up loading your
hips? Because I can see thekidney belt hip belt. Yeah, one
of the really one of the mostimportant things is the shoulder straps and the

(29:11):
kidney pads and then have those interfacewith your body as a addition. But
the kidney pad, you don't wantto neglect that. If you want to
make sure you get a really nicekidney pad that goes on there that will
buckle around your waist and then we'lltransfer load to your hips, not your
stomach or your rib cage, butyou know your actual hips. So that

(29:33):
way and you sinch that thing downreally tight, so it's really taking the
load on your hips. It savesyour backs, saves your shoulders, it
makes it a lot easier to walk. Well, yeah, I can see
your shoulders not being chewed up,because now I have a question, So
wearing body armor with that, isthere a trick on how to keep the
load closer and up high to pushforward so you're not like you're not trying

(29:56):
to fall backward all the time.Yeah, so body armor is hell right,
So nobody's really figured it out.There's a few companies that sell bags
that have inserts that will pop outif you have your armor on, but
I don't even think they do itvery well. I think eventually what happens
is as things settle from walking,the weight sits on the plate carrier itself,

(30:17):
and then that pushes that digs deepinto your shoulders and it's super uncomfortable.
So I don't think anybody does itwell. I think what most people
are doing is they have a chestrig and they have a slick plate carrier,
and then they just once they getto the OARP or objective release point,
they drop their ruck and they youknow, put their body armour on

(30:37):
and then they put their rack overthe top of that and then they step
off, and you know it onlytakes a couple of seconds to do all
that. But yeah, and thenthat's if people are running by them.
I think people are really waking upto the idea like body armor might in
some instances be more detrimental than beneficial. So yeah, if it's if it's
ill fitting or you're not you knowa lot of people who buy shit like

(31:00):
this are not fit enough to actuallygo run around and use it real you
know, you're better off to belight and fast because chances are you're not
going to go direct action. Imean, it's, let's be honest,
you're going to statistically probable that you'renot going to be Yes, the statistics
do not support now there are thereare situations. But then you know,
having that that asset's always nice.But I was gonna say, if I

(31:22):
was running around up in the woods, I know that body armor is a
thing, but I wouldn't want torun around with plates if I was rocking
up in the mountains. That's justI mean, that's that's one of those
things you got to consider, right, So you're talking fourteen pounds of armor,
let's say, and I mean,what what fourteen pounds of something else
is a lot of stuff. It'sextra water, that's a lot of that's

(31:44):
extra food, that's extra warmth.That's that's an extra a lot of something
else. So well, I mean, well, my thought is is even
in the context of well, you'renot front loading your body with magazines,
all the extra crap, like allthe extra pieces that extra five Well,
minimum you're gonna have is a fivepound plate, right, that's the minimum.
Yeah, for a front plate anda rare plate you have ten pounds

(32:06):
into it probably and then all theextra material they need to be insulating it
to be on fire all the time. So and I noticed I did notice
that, not to go on atangent, but I have noticed that the
slick carrier and then people throwing achest rig like you're going, what's old
is new again? I've noticed thatthat's become a thing again where I mean,
yeah, I mean Velcrow's awesome.So I still feel kind of up

(32:29):
to speed on that whole deal.But it's like the it's the fact that
they're having straps that come over anddo the whole thing. I'm like,
well, until somebody starts getting burnedon their neck again, you know the
next thing, but it's just notfitting right, Barbecue in my neck because
it looks cool for a minute untilyou have a your neck looks like someone
like barbecue you. So all right, So what's this so as the same

(32:49):
bag, it's just a side ofyou. It just kind of shows the
different setup. So the external framebag that I showed earlier, the mouse
pack, that's the top load ruck. This is a lambshell style ruck,
which is kind of neat because youcan heal it open like a book and
then it has access to all yourbags if you load it that way,
whereas on a malice ruck you topload, which basically is like stuffing a

(33:10):
duffel bag full of shit. SoI see, operationally, I see living
out of that might be easier,and then operating out of the other one
might be easier. Yeah, Justso what typically what we do is,
you know, you don't want tohave an extra waterproof layer in there,
so I usually use a trash bagand so I get the biggest, heaviest

(33:31):
duty contractor bag I possibly can,and I line my bag with that.
So that does a couple of things. One, it provides a rain catchment
system. It provides extra waterproofing forthe contents of my bag. And if
I want to use it as anothershelter of some sorts, like a bivvy
bag of some sorts, I canclimb inside of it. Because the large

(33:52):
contractor bags are freaking massive, right, they are a little loud, so
that's something to consider when you're usingthem. But you know, if you're
in the rain and everything, thatnoise is muffled out by the drippity drops
of the rain, it's hard tohear guys a little bit. Yeah,
this is a little bit harder todo that with with the style of bag,
which is the internal frame or claimshellstyle that you really can't do that

(34:15):
with. So usually that's you'll seethe ziploc bag thing and like stuff like
that. And zip block bags arenice too because they are another vessels to
carry water and whatnot, and soif that's a concern for you or store
water, and I should say carryingwater is a lot harder to do in
a ziploc bag than you would think. But okay, I have a question.
Okay, so I know I knowthe answer, but there are people

(34:37):
who may be watching this and belike, why isn't the bottom big and
why is the top big? Why? Okay, why is it better to
have less at the bottom on yourhips and more up high? Well,
it really has to do with theweight distribution and how you're doing it.
So I don't know if this imageis a little skew because mind doesn't come

(34:57):
in that close. That's a verybig taper on that one. Show us
a three quarter go down? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a different
angle. It looks whiter on theon the other one. Yeah, I
don't know. I don't think theyI don't think. I mean image a
little bit, yeah, image theleft, Yeah, scroll up, Yeah,

(35:20):
that's a little bit better. Maybeit's just how they had it loaded
to It's like a trapezoid kind ofa shape, it almost or like a
weird so because it's whiter from thisfew and then it's narrow like a like
a try and that's what this picturewould lead you to believe. I have
one. It's not like that.It's rectangular with rounded corners. So it's

(35:40):
I mean it's not probably I justyeah exactly. I think it's just how
they stuffed it for the photo.But yeah, yeah, so but yeah,
that's that's really the weight distribution iswhen it comes in and you know,
Pat being a boy scout, right, you can can attest to that.
Yeah, definitely. Yes, weused Osprey packs internal frame. Yeah,

(36:07):
they were phenomenal. I still havemine, but yeah, I actually
switched over to Osprey for my airsoftevents. So now I only use an
Osprey for that, mostly because I'mtired of walking through airports with a multi
cam backpack and I think it drawsa lot of attention, whereas an Osprey
doesn't. No man to think you'regoing hiking whatever. Yeah, so that

(36:30):
they're durable, they're nice, they'recomfortable, you know, they you could
scale the the frame on them,but you're tursa. I mean, yeah,
they're nice. You get what youpay for. Yeah. So with
that being said, you know,if you are going to run a civilian
bag, which I recommend because youcan make it civilian looking and it's just
you walking through you know, acrowded area or a city or something with

(36:54):
a with a civilian you know backpackon Osprey backpack, let's say, but
it has all your kit and everythingon the inside of it. What you
can do is you can actually geta rut cover if you want to have
the tacticalness. Let's see if wehave them here. I had heard the

(37:15):
Amazon. Yeah, you can getbag covers on Amazon that just kind of
like slip over. Yeah, andyour Osprace will have specific covers for the
bag, yeah, like in them. Yeah, and so those are the
thing is that you should be runningone anyway, just for ships and giggles.
It's just one more thing that's waterproof. Yeah. It protects your bag
from branches and things like that.So it waves the life of the bag.

(37:38):
Yeah. And most, like yousaid, I think most bags have
them integrated into the bottom of theof the bag itself, so it comes
with one. A lot of timesthey have reflective logos on too, which
is kind of nice. I have, I'm not kidding. I've I've reacted
to contact, like bad guys shootingat me, and I've dropped my ruck
and then I've assaulted them and youknow, defeated the bad guys and then

(38:00):
where's my ruck? And then youknow it's nighttime, it's you know,
midnight doing its job. You justcan't see it. Yeah. Yeah,
and there's like forty other people lookingfor their rucks, and you know,
you're also in a leadership position,so you got to yell at people to
get their shit on and you're tryingto find yours. So I've actually started
putting markings on mine that if Ihit it with an IR light it will

(38:22):
it'll if it's not on my backand I hit it with you know,
I lay it down a certain wayso that that's exposed, and then if
I hit it with an IRA light, it'll flash at me and I can
see glint going on. Yeah,yeah, so that's that's one of the
things. Yeah, one of thethings that considers. So a rock cover
will be really nice as water yourwaterproofness, it adds in durability, and

(38:44):
then it also can change your camouflage. So if you're like I have a
leafy one which is a three Dcamouflage style that I put on my ruck
when I'm playing Russian, and like, your bag will disappear if you put
it on the ground, like it'sgone forever, So that's really cool.
And then I have a multi cameracover that I'll put on if I'm playing
Nato, and then when I getto wherever I'm going, I just peel

(39:06):
off the top and I can dowhatever I'm doing I just had this.
I just had this thing. I'mgonna put my bag up. Fuck we
go. Yeah, yeah, ithas gone back. It is now part
of the forest. I started markingthem with kem lights, with led E
lights, with the glint tape likeeverything, like I'm like so tired of
losing my bag. You look likesuch an idiot. It's like when you

(39:28):
have that dream when you're in likeschool and you're late for school and you're
like remember where your books are orwhat your locker combo was. It's like
that, but in reality. Okay, so side note. So back when
I airsofted a lot, we ranaround with gilly suits on legit like military
drags, and I we I,you know, you have your you have

(39:50):
your sniper spotter that those roles.I shoot a guy. I look over
and I see my my my botter, my security guy, and he's sitting
there. I look. I goback. I'm like, okay, smack.
Shoot another guy. He moved likefifteen feet. I couldn't see him.
I was looking right at him,and he went he moved and then

(40:14):
I saw him, like, sonof a bitch. These things do work,
you know, And it was likeit was insane and it was like
within thirty feet of him. Soyeah, And I mean I've had people
tell me like they couldn't see youlike at all, but it terrified me
when it was somebody I knew andI was supposed to be able to see.
Hi'm like, did he leave?The heck? Did he go?
And then yeah? So anyway,dude, we were assaulting and I kneeled

(40:37):
right next to him. I didn'tknow he was there. He just reaches
out, grabs my foot and they'relike they're like twenty feet in front of
you him. Oh okay, whyis the talking to me before? No?
But that's the But I mean,I gotta say having the measure like
Camo netting, basically I could seethat. Yeah. It just causes depth.

(40:58):
Anything that causes depth makes you impossibleto see. It just breaks your
breaks your outline. So are thereany other example? How about like a
and here's here's the last thing Iwanted to put on there. So sometimes
like for the example with the Ilost it. But for the extended operator
bag, you know, you wanta three day assault pack to like take

(41:22):
off, and so this is ourSMC one or Cregos' SMC one to three
assault pack which has zippers. Solike the military plate carrier has zippers on
it now, and you can attacha bag for the back via zippers.
Right. Well, this other piecethat we have here, oh no about

(41:43):
Charlie. OK. Yeah, Sothis is a zipper adapter which allow you
to attach a back panel or youknow, backpack that's set up for a
back panel onto a back So theway I have my my operator set up
is I have this on there andI have a bag that zips onto that.

(42:04):
So then if I go someplace andI want to take my you know,
leave my sustainment stuff, but Ihave my operational stuff, I put
them and put that in that bag. Unzip it real quick, pull the
shoulder straps out, throw it onand away I go. And I don't
have to like build a bag orput stuff together, move Mollie pouches or
anything like that. How many sowith that? So with so it's about

(42:25):
eight inches one two, three,four five sixcept those are eight inches long
run yeah, yeah, okay.Crime precision standard is eight and a half
inches, I think, is whatit is. So you just order so
you just attach the balast clip intothe back of the Mollie and then you
attach it to the bag and themollie and just and you don't need there's
no other eight inches. Eight isouch. So sometimes you'll depending on the

(42:47):
bag of you, you you'll haveextra leftover, right because you don't need
a full set per se, soyou'll need to adapt it to a ice
bag or maybe the bag and theother bag or whatever. R your play
carrier doesn't have zippers. That's whatthis is designed for. I just found
it. Oh, I can actuallyput that onto a rucksack as well that
has molly and then zip a bagonto that, so it increases my my

(43:10):
cubic inches. Yeah, that's slick. I mean that's I I know,
I saw like the Pharaoh stuff hadthat, and I saw that spirit has
had it. I just didn't knowthat that you guys that this was using
it and and I think that becamestandard. I didn't realize it was a
nice thing. Yeah yeah, Imean some of the other guys have weird
zipper patterns, so that's something toconsider when you're buying your stuff. But
cry Precision is the industry standard forzippered back punds. I believe they're the

(43:35):
ones that came out with it.I also think Pharaoh has a pharaoh or
spirits. One of them has adifferent zipper pattern. These are number eight,
like a YKK or whatever. Imean, these are y KK.
But but one is you know,these are molded teeth. Some use U.
What's the other style? It's likea different style, like they're a

(43:59):
style. And then there's also sizeteeth differences. So these are eight.
I think some people use ten.Some people use five, and they do
it intentionally so you have to buytheir stuff. It's annoying. But which
is silly because that's like probably themost robust there is. That's a super
robust zipper. Yeah, yeah,it's a five or this is an eight,
I believe, and it's just fine, like it's a number eight and

(44:21):
like you're not gonna break it.It'll be good to go. Yeah,
that's I'm gonna end up buying aset for my flat pack just because I'll
have I have it so it'll clipin, but that would be nice.
It won't shifts zip and I'll putthe bottom clips in and it's done.
I can take it on and offin just a second. No, it's
so if you were going to gowith something that comes out of a car,

(44:44):
like a small backpack. Is therea direction you go with that I
would go personally, I'll go toan osprey bag or something like that,
just because it looks so civilian.There's you know, some other bags,
but it really depends on what you'redoing. One of the bags I use
for some of my stuff is itDark Gangel bag because it has a hidden
compartment in the bottom that you canput a whole iifact system in, and

(45:06):
then it has some different organizing pouchesfor different magazines on the inside of it.
But you know, I don't usethe magazine pouches. That's not really
what it's in my opinion, that'snot really what that bag is for,
right, So but yeah, Idon't know. I think it really just
depends on what you're trying to do, and I think I think there's too
many things, too many options,and so what I try to do this

(45:29):
is, you know, going offtopic. Maybe this is something we can
talk about in other days. Itry to have the stuff in the vehicle
and then have vessels to put thestuff in, so it's not like I'm
grabbing it going I'm gonna need twoor three minutes to grab the things I
think I need. Okay, soyou have you have you have kits that
you can start front loading into abag so you can go do whatever you

(45:52):
need to go do instead of youhave just you have a selection rather than
everything all in one. Yeah,I'll have eight water bottles in the door
of my truck because I just lineboth passenger doors with water bottles. And
then I'll come back after a weekendand I'll have like two water bottles left,
and I'm like, who the Sothen I go through and restock them
and stuff, and it's just usable, usable stuff. Like the concept of

(46:14):
just having bags that are unused anduntouched is nice, but it's also going
to take up a ton of space, right, And I'd rather just have
the resources at my disposal and thenif I need them, I throw them
into a bag and then I cango. So, when you're looking at
a bag that's like kind of arip and go kind of bag, do
you want something that will actually unzipand fully open so you can go like

(46:35):
by selection or is it like kindof the you know, like we were
saying the difference between a front topload or like a clamshell or so I
think the bag, whatever bag isyou have, is what you're going to
want to use whatever you feel mostcomfortable with right dimensionally compartments and things like
that. But like I have,I have these bailout bags that go next
to the driver in the passenger seatand they're mountain hardware fans or like lumbar

(47:00):
bags, and they hold they havespots for water bottles, and then they
each have a light and a lighta light, a lighter and a knife
in there no far sam rug andthen they you know, have these different
things. And then if I needto grab that, it's literally held on
by some bell crow. It justI just under the bell crow and I
can grab that bag and go andthen stuff whatever other stuff. And so

(47:21):
for example, on the head andwrist of my vehicle, I have a
block hit and then you might havesome firearms on your person already, you
know, things like that, andhowever you want to manage that, you
can manage that. But yeah,just grabbing a few things I found is
better than trying to loga back backaround. Okay, I mean that's I
I always have like a little likeflat packed style bag that I always have

(47:45):
that because that's part where I usefor my gem bag because I always I
would bring all my crap that goesin there, and my gat's in there,
the whole thing, and then Iso then its low profile walk in
well, I mean I actually tookit to heart because you're like, yeah,
you know, I'd rather carry withIt's not always just on you because
you can up and download. SoI have a means to drop a gun

(48:07):
off and put it in another bagif I need to, and it's still
somewhat secure and it's not like inyour face. So I've got a man
purse, you know. It's athing. Yeah, my my EEC bag
that I carry it to a workingback with my computer and all that stuff
in there. There's the pool out, which you know I have. I
have the pool out that I've showedyou guys before, right, Like that
thing is the most important thing tome. Like I'll ditch the laptop and

(48:30):
the monitor and all that crap.But that pull out has medical stuff in
it. It's got hygiene stuff init, it's got power supply stuff,
it's got tools, like it haseverything I need to be able to like
do something. So like when itcomes to like I pulled it out like
the sink was leaking today, andinstead of going to the my toolbox,
I just opened that up and Ipulled my headlamp out, and I pulled

(48:51):
my adjustable pliers out and fighting downthe spicket. And you literally just made
the last point I wanted to makebefore we left and close it out tonight.
Use the ship in your bag soyou know how to use it.
You'll know where it's at, whatyou're doing. If if you buy a
new toy, if you buy anew thing that you say, oh,

(49:12):
this could be the newest, latestsliced bread, you need to use and
know whether or not it's going towork. I mean, you could have
a battery powered saw, but ifthe if it doesn't work, then you
now have a chainsaw that doesn't work. You know it comparatively, so it's
like it's the same, it's allthe same thing. You wouldn't It was
kind of was that movie Ghosts inthe Darkness or whatever is what it was.

(49:35):
Yeah, you always want to makesure that you know, you don't
want to go out on a longhike with brand new shoes. You got
to break them in the same idea, Yeah, exactly, It's just you
know, Oh, by the way, I did end up trying. I've
got two battle belts, not whatI have two battle belts. I don't
want to use good phonics or grammar. I did pick up a knockoff Ronan
tactics belt, and I'm really debatingof whether or not the uh, the

(50:00):
flexibility is way better or not,because the the stiff belt is less comfortable.
For sure, it is not ascomfortable as how many complaints with my
my little cheap one, other thanthe fact that once you put Molly on
there, you're not getting it offunless you have a parable well no,
I mean so the so the prototypeone that Avery put together compare to the

(50:21):
relexible one, they're super flexible.So I've got both ends of the spectrum.
I am. I am actually conflictedabout which one works better in terms
of use, and I think it'smission dependent. Like if I was living
in it, I would much ratherhave the flexible right flexible belt because then
it's like and then you maybe youhave a little little stiffer like inner belt

(50:45):
just a little bit but has alittle more structure, but the outer that's
super chill was and it's the fourfour strands of Mallie or the ship those.
That opens up a lot of options. Yeah, if you can,
if you can find a pouch thataccepts them, which the Roade line I
was supposed to be designed that way, so that all pouches wlove directly onto
a half inch increments. Then itdoesn't move at all, and it's it's

(51:07):
flush with the surface of the belt, so it's not writing at beird heights
and stuff. Yeah, it wouldbe really cool. I might actually be
looking at that belt again in thenext couple of weeks. Bring it to
market. Sweet, it's I haveproduct tested the shit out of it.
It's solid, I've got years init. Thank Avery for all your knowledge

(51:28):
today. I really appreciate your inpounon that. That's one of things I've
been looking at. There's a longlist of new gear that I need to
pick up, and so I'm goingto be working on coming up with some
money here in the next few monthsand so well that only fans is really
going places for you. What theupside is is you've already been doing the
most important work, which you've beenin the gym and getting a lot more

(51:49):
fit. This last week I hada really bad case of the sniffles.
I don't know what it was goingaround. I had somewhere. It's like,
what did she give you? Yeah, it's pretty awful as fatigued and
stomach aches and all that stuff.And so I was over sleeping a lot,
and like what the most important thingI've ever heard from Avery is that

(52:14):
sleep was a crutch. And Ilived with that for my whole life.
After that moment, I'm going toget back to the gym. You know,
the diets from working, So Ipounded you slowly. Sleep is the
only thing you can't make up.Everything else you can make up. True,
it's a weapon if you use itproperly. It is that from the
Born books, right from those books. There was a part in them in

(52:37):
that. So in the Robert Ludlam, like the Borne Identity book, there
was this part where Jason Bourne waslike he was training and he said,
Traders said sleep is a weapon.You know, you know, and he
goes because you're if you're clear mind, if you're the guy that the side
that is actually well rested is goingto perform, And I was like,
huh okay. So then I gotmy three and a half minutes to eap

(53:00):
and kept on going. I learnedBill can read books. You know what
sometimes I do? No, No, somebody, what's It's a book on
tape, dude, that's how Iread, uh, Rainbow Sex by top
class book on tape. Yeah,I read it. I read all those

(53:20):
I listened to. I listened toa professional read it to me. Oh
yeah, well there's a There area few books that are the ship and
those were worthwhile reading, but theyare absolutely nothing to do with them.
Somebody took the cassette tapes and theyrecorded them to MP three and they put
them up as a tour and Iwas like, I'll take that, thank
you. Damn. That was twentyten. I was back there lot and

(53:44):
wire. It was before audible wasa thing, for sure. Well,
how well wes if our wonderful listenerswanted to sponsor us in some unique way?
How would they do that? Conspiraffecttempt your at gmail dot com.
You can send us a tip usingpaypalf you so choose it helped us out.
I'm not wearing it today, butunsuppressed t shirts ground zeromerch dot com.

(54:07):
Check us out, pick one up, support us, show your friends
they look awesome. Zion Trali ifyou would wear it every week. That'd
be kind of weird. I'd belike, are you washing that, because
that's questionable, you know, ata given points. So, no,
they are cool. I've seen themin person. They are They're a clean
they're a very clean image. TheT shirts are are decent. Yeah,

(54:29):
it came out great, so checkit out. But guys, remember when
it comes to your rights, whetherit be the First Amendment, Second Amendment,
or all the others, make sureyou stay unsuppressed.