Bills Pre-Season Preview, James Cook Hold-In, and Injury Evaluation | UR - Under Review

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Here, you're just play, We'll go under Review.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Citizens of Earth, Bill's fans, football fans, thank you so
much for tuning into this week's episode of Under Review.
My name is Joe DeRosa, Joe hyphen Well, that's not
hyphen actually, Lion c One. The tagline for tonight is
bea day Boy. Not because today is my day, and
not because by the time you're seeing this it's my birthday,

(00:57):
but the day after it actually is. I'm almost celebrating
twenty ninth birthday, and I'm incredibly excited, and I'm incredibly
excited for Tonight's episode because we are going to get
into the nitty gritty of so many eventful things that
have happened during this week in Bill's training camp, such
as the Hard Knocks episode premiere, James Cook's contract situation,
and we will be previewing the preseason matchup with the

(01:19):
New York Giants. Really just something that we've been kind
of anticipating for a while, waiting for, excited for these
players that we've had stock on during camp that we
finally want to see in some game action. This is
the opportunity to see it, and I'm sure Bill's fandom
alike has been waiting and been so so so ready

(01:39):
for this, and we finally got football, folks. And on
tonight's episode, I am never by myself. That's not true.
I have been by myself before. But I do have
a guest this evening, someone that you would be very
familiar with, not just because this person has been on
this show, but because this person is doing really just
an amazing job with their camp coverage, getting really exclusive

(02:00):
interviews with players and just giving you as much detail
as they could possibly provide from Bill's training camp. And
that is the one and only, the incomparable Mike Barn Mike,
welcome back to the show. It has been just three
long weeks since I have had you here, but you
are back on the airwaves to join me.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
How are you doing tonight, my friend.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'm doing great.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Tonight quite the introduction for me. That's one of the
best I've heard so far. But yeah, I'm excited for
the beginning of the preseason starting the Saturday, and a
lot to talk about with camp wrapping up on Thursday.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Definitely, man, And you know, it's just I keep saying this.
We've had so many weeks of just nothing this summer
and to finally be back in the swing of getting
these episodes out with actual, real tangible Bill's news to
talk about. It's an exciting thing. And I just want
to address the elephant in the room before we begin

(02:55):
our conversation. My airpod's died, so you're seeing me wear
my Logitech headphones that I usually used to play games with.
And I usually don't wear these when I'm live, just
because I like the look of the AirPods, and also
this big yellow like I don't even know, like wire
cord that like maintains the height of the headphone just
looks silly. I look like I'm wearing like an antenna.

(03:17):
So I don't usually wear them, but I gotta wear
them tonight for this one. And I just wanted to
say that before anyone ever asked why that was on
your head. Now, like, let's start this conversation, and I
first want to ask you just again, You've been at camp,
You've been able to cover it up close, You've done
player interviews and they're exceptional. If you guys aren't following Mike,
please do it. But I mean your biggest takeaways from Camp.

(03:39):
I know we've talked about this a little bit A
couple of weeks ago. But now that we are, you know,
getting out of Saint John Fisher and the practices are
ramping up at the facility. Just what would your biggest
takeaways from your time covering Bill's training camp.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (03:51):
I have three big takeaways. Number One, James Cook is
now a story. Uh it wasn't at the beginning, but
now it is. And is there going to be a resolution.
I'm not overly concerned about the situation, but how is
it going to end? I don't know how long is
it gonna last. I have no clue. I just hope
that we get an answer to that sooner rather than later.

(04:15):
Number Two, the injuries, thank god, most of them aren't serious.
Even the news with Maxwell Harrison and Khalil Secure way worse.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
With both of them, we just found out.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Today that with Khalil Secure that he is expected to
be back before the start of the regular season.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
So good news there. Even Maxwell Harrison if.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
He misses sometime, obviously he's going to be out a
little while. Sean McDermott compared it to Cole Bishop's injury,
where he's going to be delayed and behind schedule in
terms of reps. But he's going to be back at
some point. And then the third thing for me, it's
just status quo with this team. They go out there,

(04:56):
they take care of business. A lot of these injuries
are relatively minor things where players are going to be
back before the start of the season, So they're just
out there, they're working hard, and eventually we're going to
have some games to be talking about in the near future.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Very near future, as we get our first taste of
game action again this weekend against the New York Giants.
But before we delve into that preview, just to go
over your points, Mike, starting with James Cook's hold in,
if you want to call it a hold in, very interesting.
You know, when he started practices and ramped up training
camp and practice with the team and was out there
on drills but also out there in the scrimmages, I

(05:33):
was like, wow, you know, you know, for someone that's
in a contract situation where he obviously wants to either
get an extension or get more market money, and for
someone that is in this position of leverage, if you
want to call it that, I'm surprised he's out there,
you know, I'm surprised that he's actually participating this much
with the team, and it shows, you know, a lot
of good faith and I don't think that has gone away.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
I defend the player that wants to get his money,
however he sees a fit. This is a common tat
and if anything, the Ray Sean Slater news that occurred
just a few hours ago should let every nfl FN
know why players do this because they need to protect themselves.
And with James Cook, who is a running back in
the NFL probably the most unstable market for position players

(06:16):
in this league, you got to protect yourself and get
your money. So I have no ill will towards James
Cook making this hold in a thing because especially with
Sean McDermott's commentary today talking about how he's still there
for meetings, He's still there in the walkthroughs, He's just
not out there for the actual field component, and that
is something that you want to see address soon. However,

(06:38):
it can happen, whether there's an extension, whether it's just
a change of mind to go back out there and
play on his current deal.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
But it still is.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
A big story and still one that I wonder, Mike,
are we going to see the resolution, like will we
see this contract situation resolved sooner than later. You know,
earlier in the week the film Guys did an episode
on this. But Kyron Williams gets his extension at about
eleven million dollars per year, which would put him, I
believe at six or seventh as far as running back

(07:10):
tiers go for contract average annual value. James Cook, you know,
we've heard was asking anywhere from north of fifteen to
twenty million. A lot of people deemed that that eleven
million to twelve million range is fair, and I'm wondering
if that is going to be agreed upon, if they
will reach a mutual agreement and get him to a

(07:32):
fair deal for both sides, which I think is in
that range. But it has become a story, Mike, And
going on to your other points, I mean the injuries.
Max Harriston, you know, sigh of relief, talked about this
last week and the week before, like very thankful that
it wasn't anything worse. But it does suck to see
the rookie not get valuable reps, especially and you know

(07:52):
with the CB two battle and the need for stability
at that point, it's unfortunate. But we can at least
take resolve in the fact that he will play this season,
that he will be out there and he can be
rotated at a very slow paced because you do get
the luxury of a veteran Tray White showing out in
camp and really stabilizing that position and making you feel

(08:15):
comfortable with it even if he does have to rehab.
And then same goes for Khalil Shakir. Just the high
ankle sprain again not something you want to underplay, but
given when it happened, four to six week timeline and
anticipating him being back for a very massive opener with
the Baltimore Ravens, I mean, you can't really ask.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
For much better than that.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I want to say this, Mike, and then we'll continue.
The injury list is long, and it sucks that it's long,
but I feel like we do a thing every year
where we like overly panic about it. And I'm not
going to downplay the things like Taylor Rap and Cole
Bishop not getting reps together, because I do think that matters.
And I'm not going to downplay something like Max Harriston

(08:53):
missing four weeks and maybe that affects his rookie season.
But what I will say is last year people panicked
it out the long list and it ended up being
fine for week one, and I think we're going to
see a similar situation and be more thankful that it
wasn't anything massively long term that altered the course of
their season. Knock on wood for the rest of the preseason. So, Mike,
going to turn it back to you any more thoughts

(09:15):
on that any more, thoughts on the James Cook situation.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
I want to give the floor back to you, my friend.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
Regarding the injuries, Sean McDermott has even acknowledged that they
play cautious when it comes to injury management, making sure
that guys are at a certain percentage health wise before
going back on the practice field. The last thing they
want to do is put somebody out there that's dealing
with some stuff and make it even worse. So I
do think there is a combination of veteran rest days

(09:44):
and load management that you see out there, and then
when somebody is nicked up a little bit, they're playing
it safer than what they probably would do in the
regular season when it comes to should this person practice
today or should we give them a little bit more
rust because this is.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
The time to give them rust. You don't have anything
to lose.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
By letting somebody heal in the regular season, you could
possibly lose games. Then it starts to mean a little
bit more. So there definitely is a cautious approach by
the Bills head coaching staff and their strength and conditioning.
The one thing I will say about James Cook, I
think eleven to twelve million is the sweet spot for

(10:25):
where the Bills would be willing to go to to
make something work for James Cook. My biggest concern is
I don't know if James Cook is willing to go down.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
To twelve million to come to terms with the Bills.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
If you look at the Kyron and Williams deal at
eleven million, three years thirty three total, that's a perfectly
fair deal for James Cook. I would even make that
three years thirty six million and to make something work.
But I feel like we have conflicting information going on
right now. Every time you hear a national media person speak,
whether it's Tom Pelsero, Diana Roussini, Pete Prisco, they keep

(11:04):
saying that Cook is trying to get this over the
finish line, that the two sides aren't far apart and
that they think something could get done. I believe that's
probably getting leaked by Cook and his agent to these
national media people, and then every time you hear Brandon
being talk's it takes two to tango that we need

(11:24):
Cook to be willing to see where we're at, and
from what my thoughts are, I don't think James Cook
ever actually believed that he was going to get fifteen
plus million per year, if we're living in a realistic world,
but that's a starting point.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
That's where I.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Want my negotiations to begin, and then the bills respond
with where they're at. And the fact that this hasn't
come to a resolution through an entire offseason probably means
that the two sides aren't really that.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Close at this point. So not to say that I
could obviously be wrong.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
I'm not gonna say that three national reporters are way
off the mark, but the fact that he is sitting out,
I guess it's always possible that maybe it is to
try to narrow that gap and make something happen. To me,
he came in practicing good faith and was hoping that
was gonna be enough to close that gap, And my

(12:21):
biggest takeaway is that the Bills haven't bunched, so we'll
see what happens. I still think he's going to be
out there Sunday Night Football Week one against Baltimore no
matter what, because once game checks are on the line,
once your production is possibly diminished because you're missing games
or you're missing reps, you're gonna cost yourself on your
next contract. Right now doesn't hurt anything. You stay healthy,

(12:43):
you stay in game shape, you don't lose, you don't
have that risk of injury. Let's see how it is
a couple of weeks from now. If this still goes
into late August, then I'll be concerned.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
But it's way too early now.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, I agree with you on that.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I think right now we got to keep our perspective
is a little more tempered because it's August at the
time of recording this, it's August seventh. You know, when
it comes to things like holdings, extension talk or injury
or really anything impacting the day one roster or the
regular season, we still got a few weeks to go.
When we hit August. There's like this acceleration that occurs

(13:19):
in a lot of fans minds of like, oh, my god,
like season's here tomorrow and it's like, nah, dude, we
still got like.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
A month left, like a little more in a month
with exactly a month exactly.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Oh yeah, it is true.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, So I mean you got you got a month
of time, you got all this, this this grace period
if you want to call it, this large grace period
ahead of you to figure things out.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
And when it comes to James.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Cook and when it comes to the bills, I'm more
on the side that I do think that the negotiations
aren't as far apart as we thought, but it might
be something where, like you alluded to, James Cook started
at a higher figure at around like that.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Actual twenty million mark. That's saequon Barkley mark.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Just knowing that that's the top of the market, and
that's where I'm gonna start these because if I work backwards,
you know, I'm not going to fall too far. Whereas
the Buffalo Bills obviously based it off market projections, based
off again his production, the output, long term evaluation, and
probably saw him more in the Josh Jacobs or Alvin
Kamaraz here. And to me, when I'm comping him to

(14:17):
any contract that's on the market. That's where I'm putting
him in that bracket specifically, because what I think you're
getting with James Cook is a great running back, an
amazing compliment to Josh Allen, who has really helped galvanize
this rushing attack. You know, I credit the offensive line
Aaron Kromer a ton, but James Cook deserves his flowers
for what he has been able to accomplish behind that line.

(14:38):
And he is a great compliment for what the Bills
are doing schematically in the rushing attack.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
When you talk about.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Gap power and like duo running schemes, he runs between
those tackles really well. And I think because of that
when you look at how he compliments your offense stylistically,
when you look at what he brings to the table
in both explosiveness as a runner, the strength he's gained
to be able to stay on his feet the contact now,
and then in addition, the ability to receive out of
the backfield and be utilized in that five to ten

(15:05):
yard range, which he was the third leading, third leading
receptions leader on the team. You got to take into
account how much that matters for your team, but you
also have to be realistic and It's why I don't
blame Brandon Bean for holding his ground and not caving
and giving him the sixteen to seventeen million dollar deal,
because my honest view of James Cook as a running

(15:26):
back is that he's really, really good. But I don't
think he's a bell cow. I don't think he's in
every down back. He cannot, in my opinion, pass block
at an adequate enough level to justify being there over
someone who could do it at a higher level, like
Ty Johnson. That's not me saying Ty Johnson's a better back,
but there are limitations that justify a lower contract, a

(15:47):
lower AAV and you have to be mindful of that
when you talk about long term extensions of a player.
And while it's unfortunate that they have not agreed to
a contract yet, I just wonder if this situation with
James Cook right now is a blessing in disguise, because
if there was any sort of like final ground, that
maybe Brandon Bean didn't have to so much so rush

(16:07):
on because he thought he had James Cook in his
pocket playing ready to go for the next few weeks,
that maybe him holding in creates a sense of urgency
and all you hope, if you are a Bills fan
who is conscious of the salary cap and what that
could do for future moves, free agency next year, or
retention of other players such as Connor McGovern, is that

(16:27):
he doesn't panic and overspend. And right now you're having
a staring contest of James Cook and Brandon Bean. I
don't know who's going to blink first, but I personally
feel that someone is going to blink soon. I am
hoping that it's not so much that if James Cook
blinks he misses out on generational money. It's just not
Saquon Barkley money. I'm in the camp that he should
be getting at most like twelve and a half to

(16:49):
thirteen million, and I think that's a perfectly fair deal
for what he brings to the table as a running back. So, Mike,
any more thoughts on this? James Cook hold in? I
love the term hold in, It's so funny. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
I just hope we get a resolution soon. I do
think anything beyond twelve million starts to get a little
rich for me. As far as like, is he worth
twelve plus million? I don't think so. I can justify
it because of what he brings to the Bills offense
in terms of explosiveness and his importance to this team
going forward. But if you ask yourself, what do you

(17:23):
want to see out of a running back worth more
than twelve million per season?

Speaker 1 (17:27):
I don't think Cook brings.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
The analytical value, the metric value that justifies that payment.
But am I going to get upset over overpaying a
guy by one or two million dollars a year when
you have a two hundred plus million dollar salary cap.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
No, So I'll be okay with it.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
I do think when we started this offseason, we all
thought that ten would be a rich contract. Now we're
kind of getting ourselves to twelve to thirteen million. So
if anything, it shows that James Cook has kind of
helped the narrative into raising what the ceiling for what
he's worth, because a lot of people would have thought

(18:08):
that ten million would have been that ceiling heading into February,
in March and April, So good for him if he
eventually gets paid.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
At the end of the day, I just want to
seeing him on the field.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
I want the Bills to be able to have him
part of their long term plans because I really do
believe that James Cook is a perfect running back for
what they run offensively, And even though a lot of
people think running backs are easily replaceable, I don't think
that what James Cook brings to the table is easily replaceable.
And in order to do so, you're probably investing another
second or third round pick into a running back next year.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
And I would rather use that on.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
Another position of need to help out the roster during
a Super Bowl window.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
And if you want to make the argument that James
Cook still has his best football in front of him,
I think that's perfectly valid. It's probably something that his
agent is using right now too, you know, looking at
his past two seasons pro bowler and both in over
a thousand rushing yards and really just over a thousand
yards from scrimmage in general. Because he's someone that can
give you that plus receiving like from the backfield. Like

(19:08):
I said earlier, but I mean, you got someone who
is probably I still think you could argue his prime
is either now or ahead of him. And I think
if you think paying him two more million is okay
because you're banking on getting that production consistently, I can
buy into that. It's not what I would prefer but
if you told me tomorrow they came to an agreement

(19:28):
on like a fourteen million dollar per year contract, it
wouldn't be the end of the world. And I don't
want the takeaway from this to be, you know, we
hate James Cook or we don't want James Cook to
get paid, because.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Things can get misconstrued.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
It's just that I think there are contracts that are
just when you talk about relative to production, fairer and
then a little less fair from the team's sake. And
it's not that we're shills for the organization, but in
terms of hamstringing yourself for future deals, you just never
know what like one to three million can do for
you when you talk about an extension with another vital piece.

(19:59):
And I think the Connor McGovern thing that I mentioned
earlier just should keep being mentioned because he is also
an extension candidate that did not come to an agreement.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
With the Bills this offseason.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
I don't think that happens this season if they do
extend James Cook. And I think, you know, my philosophy
when it comes to offensive line is I never want
to rock the boat in any specific way.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
I want to keep it intact. I think they have
a really good thing going.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
I do like that they took you know, Cedric van
parenngranger last year, and a peer Center from Georgia played
sec ball did quite well in the role. If you
had to turn it over to him, I could buy
into it, especially if Aaron Kromer's giving you the signal
that it's okay. But I also like retaining players that
have built rapport, especially at the center position with Josh Allen,
and I like maintaining players that can keep the actual

(20:47):
structure and strength of your offense intact, which is again
that power running game, the ability to move really any
trench against any team.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
I want to keep that intact.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
So I am mindful of what a McGovern extension could
potentially look like, and the Cook extension going beyond projections,
can tap into that a bit.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
I'd like to keep both players if possible.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
But again, if they paid James Cook tomorrow and it
was fourteen million, even fifteen well, it wouldn't be my favorite.
It would be a little rich. I would understand it,
and I'd be happy to retain him. We'll hope a
solution happens soon, but we're just gonna have to wait
and see, mister Mike Bump, We're just gonna have to
wait and see. And I want to now just circle
back to the injury conversation one more time again. We
talked about Harriston, talked about Shakir, but I mean, like,

(21:30):
just a little bit more on the long list, you
said McDermott, and really he said to himself, being said
to himself, they're a bit more conservative with their injuries.
But I do want to ask you, like, when it
comes to guys like Taylor Rap, Cole Bishop, bat Tandem,
when it comes to some of the other players like
Curtis Samuel, you know, the guys that have missed extended
periods of time. I mean, is there any concern on

(21:50):
your side for these guys when it comes to the
regular season or are you sitting here in the camp
of I don't care. If Week one comes and they're
able to play, then they're able to play them, We'll
be fine.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
What do you think?

Speaker 4 (22:00):
So I'm not as concerned about them being able to
play as I'm concerned about what do they bring to
the table. And not so much Taylor rep He showed
last year what he's capable of. But cold Bishop is
a mostly unproven player who's entering his second year after
limited reps as a rookie, and we don't know what
Cold Bishop is at.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
This point in time.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
That's a concern for me that he's basically missing all
of training camp for a second consecutive season. Even if
he is ready to go, he's missing valuable reps and
I think that's a big question mark going into the
regular season. I'm assuming he's the starter, but if he
does begin the year and struggles out of the gate,

(22:42):
I could see a door opening for Demorrow Hamlin to
regain his starter position if col Bishop gets off to
a really poor start. Now we have no way of
saying he will or he won't, because we just don't
really have the large enough sample size with him. When
it comes to some of the other guys you mentioned,
like Curtis Samuel, that's another concern for me because last year,

(23:04):
Dealt with turf toe, got off to a slow start,
and obviously the injuries impacted his production at the first
half of.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
The season, and then he had a decent end to
the season.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
But then once again you're trying to integrate him into
your offense and he's just not there. We all talk
about Baile inspector and the injuries and eventually how he
paid the price getting waived, and I know that since then,
I think he was put on injured reserve after clearing waivers.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
But the fact of it is, Curtis Samuel has yet
to show the upside that Bills fans have been hoping
for since he signed with the team. The entire receiver
room is kind of a question mark at this point.
Joshua Palmer has missed some practices.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
Obviously Khalil Sekir is missing significant time, but you already
know what you have in secure at the end of
the day, I think Curtis Samuel missing practices is hurting
his cases, hurting his case to really be a potential
impact fourth wide receiver on this team. He was never
going to be putting up big time numbers. But heading

(24:11):
into camp, a lot of Bills.

Speaker 5 (24:14):
Fans thought, Okay, you have Shakir, you have Coleman, you
have Palmer, you have more, you have Samuel, And now
I don't know if you can even include Samuel in
more in that discussion anymore.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
It looks like you have a solid three and then
it's a lot of question marks after that.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
M Yeah, so where I think I can align myself
with And this kind of ties back into what I
said earlier with the safety tandem, and just going off
what you said, I don't so much worry about availability.
I think there's plenty of time to get these guys
back in the swing of things. But the ramp up
and how that could bleed into week one is something

(24:52):
I worry about more. And I think that's a valid argument,
because again, when I think people see the injury report,
they think these guys aren't going to play. I get
little bit more concerned over like, Wow, Okay, he missed
basically all of training camp and now has to come
back and get acclimated really quickly. And even if his
body is still in the field, is he one hundred
percent yet is he able to contribute in a meaningful

(25:13):
way Curtis Samuel. I'm worried just about long term health,
because yes, this is the second summer in a row
that we have seen Curtis Samuel face a significant injury
that has hampered his ability to be productive. And when
it comes to how the Bills intend to use Curtis Samuel,
I feel like the full potential of his role in
this offense has been quite limited because he himself has

(25:35):
been quite limited. And in the glimpses that we did
have a healthy Curtis Samuel, I have said this before.
I think he had become quite a big part of
the receiving game and had been very valuable. You saw
him with very meaningful catches at the end of the
season in both Chiefs games. In that Broncos game, Curtis
Samuel made noise and made his presence felt because he
was healthy, able to go, and he's a great piece

(25:57):
that you can move across the line if you want
to line him out, if you want to move him
in the slot, if you want to get him going
up the seam.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
He gives you all of that.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
But he needs to stay on the field, and we
haven't been given enough confidence that he can do that consistently.
And that's a problem because the Bills went out and
got this guy for you know, a decent contract for
his position. Obviously not market setting money, but tangible and
significant enough given what the Bill's salary cap situation was
when they signed him. They went out and got him,

(26:26):
they paid him, and I feel like the return on
investment has been very minor and we need to see
more on that or unfortunately it would go down as
a probably loss in the brand and being free agent
signing column. And I think people would be fair to
say so Samuel is a good player, but he has
to stay on the field. So I do worry about
his effectiveness outright. If this hamstring injury is something that

(26:46):
lingers until the end of August and then you know
he has like maybe one to two weeks to ramp
up and that's it. Now he's a veteran, you might
hope that he knows the playbook by now he's been
here one more year. That does give me a little confidence,
but not so much that it would make me think
he's going to be a dependent upon target in week one.
And I mean you could say the same thing for
Khalil Shaker. He will be back week one, but how
effective is he? Is the ankle going to be limited?

(27:08):
Is he going to face a lingering injury? Is just
receiving core that much of a factor in week one?
I think that's a valid thing to be concerned over.
I think you'll see the players play, but are you
going to see them in their true form or kind
of a show of themselves? While they continue to ramp
up and just getting into the safety room. Taylor reps
seems to be a week a week to week thing,
or at least one week. Sean McDermott said he came

(27:29):
back to practice this week, he got out again. It
seems like they're just giving him time to rest his
need to get okay. I'm not really as worried about him.
He's been a starter, someone that you've turned to, and
when it comes to your backup safety and Jamorrow Hamlin,
if he's got to fill in, he's got to fill in.
But I'm really disappointed so far in the Cold Bishop tenure,

(27:50):
not even just for his play on the field, which
I think was still very much developing. I've said before,
we've seen flashes four and I like Cole Bishop as
a player. I believe in Cold Bishop as a player,
as a prospers. But you got to stay on the field.
And again, we're in a second summer where a significant
injury is taking away meaningful reps for a position where
you are one of the prime communicators, you are one

(28:11):
of the generals of that defense. You are going to
be called upon heavily to command traffic and you're going
to be closer to the line. You're going to be
further away from the line. You're going to be a
part of all the different disguised looks that the Bills have.
You have to be as polished and sharp on your
communication as possible to succeed. We know how much stock
they put in the safety position and how much they

(28:31):
task with safeties in their defense, so much that we
have said it can be a multi year development process.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
And I'm not out on coal Bishop.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
I'm not swearing off Coal Bishop, nothing ridiculous like that,
but I need to see him stay on the field.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
I need long term results from Coal Bishop.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
A quad injury keeping him out for three weeks is
not a good start to the season for him. We
need to have more, especially when your first week opponent
is one of the nastiest offenses in the NFL that
can absolutely mutilate your second if you are even a
tick slow or late to react. They need the most
out of him, and I'm hoping that this is just

(29:06):
something that he can get through quicker than usual, get
back within the week, and start ramping up in the
secondary because at this point, if you don't have these
guys with sound chemistry I don't expect a lot from
the safety room for the first few weeks, and it's
unfortunate that it's even has that this even has to
be a conversation again, But those are really the only
ones I'm like majorly worried about. Again, Like Harston's a rookie,

(29:28):
it sucks that he's missing the reps. But also if
Trey White wasn't here, I'd be a lot more panicked.
I think Trey is doing quite a nice job in
training camp. He's giving you every reason to believe that
he's CB two going forward. You know, you have plenty
of death at that position too that I think you
could feel a little comfortable in even if it was
Dane Jackson rotating in for a play here and there,
if you believe in what Dorian Strong is becoming, who's

(29:50):
been having decent reps at camp. So I'm not so
much worried about him, but really just those safeties and
Curtis Samuel and I guess a little bit of Khalil
Shaker too. Granted, Khalil Shakir he'll be back. We know
what he can be. But week one is where I'm
kind of sitting like we're really going to get the
true shakira. And that's kind of where I stand on
these injuries, Mike, I mean, any more thoughts on that

(30:11):
before we get to our preview of this weekend's event.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
No, that pretty much sums it up, And I'm glad
that you brought up the fact that even though this
list is very long, that the concern shouldn't be astronomical,
because I do think that that does become kind of
routine year after year after year, where we always start
worrying about the list of injuries, not realizing as long

(30:36):
as they're not major and most of these guys are
back before the start of the regular season, that things
will be okay. Obviously, with a few guys it's going
to stink as far as lack of ramping up, but
for the most part, the Bills are likely to be
healthy once the regular season gets here.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, and listen, I hope that this entire conversation ages
terribly and by the time this episode releases that next week,
these guys are back and they got.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
A few weeks in practice to figure things out.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
But even then I still feel a little concerned, like
with Cole Bishop only having a few weeks to get
it right, you know what I mean, Like, is that
enough time for the year.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Two player to be fully in control.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Started camp, came out, once, came back in, and then
had a longer term injury. Like this is just a
meaningful time of year to get your reps, to get
your chemistry and and minor injuries are one thing I
don't really bat and I over like Dolkak coming out
for a play, going back in and then practicing every
day of the week. It's these long sustained ones that
really concern me. So hoping for the best for them,

(31:33):
hoping to heal up soon and hope we get good play.
But Mike, I want to move on to this weekend's
event and Saturday August night that one pm you will
find the New York Football Giants headed to Buffalo for
the first preseason game, where you get to watch the
ever so polarizing matchup of Jackson Dart versus Mitch Trubisky.
I know all of you are tuning in for that
exact reason, but Sean McDermott confirmed that Josh Allen will

(31:55):
not be playing in the game today. That is such
a tragedy. I am so upset. I don't think I
can live with myself. I am just kidding, of course,
especially after seeing what unfortunately transpire to Anthony Richardson just
like an hour and a half ago, which Mike, I
don't know if you saw the replay of that. I
that man's pinky was not in a pinky direction. It

(32:15):
was moved in a way that it should not be moved.
And all I'm saying is, thank you for not starting
this man in this game. You're probably gonna see Josh
Allen this preseason, but in a very cautious safe role,
just like they do every year. But Mike, we know
that they're going to have some starters play. It would
probably be for a series, maybe two. I would hope
that that would be guys like Kean Coleman. I would

(32:37):
hope that would be a couple of your starting defensive linemen.
I would hope that maybe you get to see a
little bit of like.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
A Joey Bosa and Greg Russeau combiny. I don't know.
I don't know what their playing.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Is Joey Bosa, do you really want to know?

Speaker 3 (32:51):
But like he hasn't.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Oh, so here's my thing, because I know I'm gonna
tell like a hypocrite, because I just like keep Josh
Allen in bubble rap, but then saying Joey Bosa, of
all people, should go play.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
But Joey Bosa has.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Not played on the Bills before, and I don't know
what he looks like in tandem with this d line.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
But maybe it doesn't have to be this week. The
point I really am trying to get.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
At is I don't know what starters we're gonna say,
but if you had to pick any that you could
expect to play Mike, who would you pick? And why
are you excited to watch him?

Speaker 4 (33:16):
So the players I'm excited about watching are the youngsters
on the defense, because you already really kind of know
what the offense is.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
You're not gonna have James Cook on on Saturday, so
forget about anything from him. You're not gonna have Josh Allen.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
So.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Offensively speaking, it's gonna be sloppy. You're gonna have Mitch Trubisky,
Mike White, Shane Bluchell. I can guarantee you it's not
gonna look pretty. As far as the passing game, probably
not gonna see much Josh Palmer, if he even suits up,
You'll you'll have key on for maybe a series, You'll
you'll get a lot of Tyrell Savers early on most likely.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Now that's a guy I'm.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
Excited to watch him because I'll tell you this, and
I don't know if this is getting enough pub I
think Tyrrel Shavers has a chance of making this roster.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
The way they were pumping him.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Up on Monday with the ones with Josh Allen tells
me they want to see what he can do this preseason.
He's been a preseason impact player the last preseason.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
He had a touchdown last year. I think what his
career stat line one catch.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Sign reception. Yeah, and it's a screen incredible h.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
But I really do think Tyrrel Shavers has a chance
of making this roster, especially with how the receiver room
is looking right now with the injuries. If you factor
in that one through three is safe, you're going to
have secure Coleman Palmer. That's one, two, three right there,
and then you probably have more and obviously Samuel, but

(34:53):
we don't know about Samuel's health.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
We don't know what that situation is. That leaves one
more spot.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
I don't I think it's gonna be Leviscus Denalt, even
if he's a return man. I don't think he's gonna
end up making the roster, but Tyrell Shavers is a
guy I think can be a sneaky low man on
the roster, And especially when I saw all the reps
with the ones. Josh Allen must have targeted him nearly
ten times on Monday. Yeah, he had a touchdown at

(35:21):
the end of practice. He was making big plays throughout
and against starting defensive defenders as well.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
So I think Shavers is a player to definitely watch.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
It's hard to bring up other offensive guys because we
already know who the starting offensive line is, we know
who the backup linemen are going to be, we know
what the tight end room is, we know I guess quarterback.
The backup quarterback position would be something to watch. Yeah,
is that going to be Trubisky or is that going
to be Mike White? Trubisky gets the first chance. White
obviously has been all right in practice. And then you

(35:54):
go to the defensive side. That's where you have these
interesting players. And I don't want to steal all of
your thunder, but you don't have Maxwell Harrison, so forget
about him.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
But you have t J.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Sanders, Dion Walker, Landon Jackson, Those are three draft picks
on your defensive line that you're going to see for
the first time in game action on Saturday. You're gonna
probably want to watch what happens at backup linebacker because
even though the top three is pretty solid, we really
don't know how it's gonna shape up.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Behind Dorian Williams in that room. And then, I mean,
you brought up safety.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
We're not gonna see Rap or Bishop in this game,
so I guess who are the starting safeties is probably
gonna be Cam Lewis and Damarrow Hamlin, which then gives
Jordan Hancock a chance to get reps at nickel corner
in this game. He's been all over the field so
far during training camp, and while he might not be

(36:53):
a name that many Bills fans are thinking of, he
has a lot of potential out of Ohio State, and
he has made plays at times when I've I've been
watching him and Dorian Strong as well as another guy
trying to make this team as a rookie corner out
of Virginia Tech. So it's all about the defense this year.
You can forget about most of the guys on the offense,

(37:14):
focus on the defensive youngsters in maybe a few vets
fighting for the final roster spots.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well said, Well said, I agree with really any name
you mentioned here and just go back to the offensive
side of the ball.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Mitch Trubisky. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
I mean, how could you not be romantic about Mitch
Trubisky throwing the football in the summertime. I'm very excited
for that, But I'm going to just state the obvious.
If he even gets any reps at all, I don't
know if he will, and I don't know how many,
but Kean Coleman would obviously be one that I think
everybody is watching.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
I don't believe he was deconfirmed to.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Play, and if anything, it would make sense to get
him on the field because he is a player that
has been turning heads in camp for better or for worse.
It hasn't been consistent, but it has been damn fun
and you have seen flashes of potential from the player.
And I want to see key On Coleman in action,
But really I want to see how they use Keyon Coleman.
Are we staticing x haying him, really tying him specifically

(38:10):
to a wide out roller to the boundary, or do
we move him around. Do we get him involved in
some slot work and get him across the field and
try to get some easy kindling for Mitch Trubisky and subsequently.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Maybe Mike White. Maybe maybe not, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
That is something I'm interested to see is really not
only just him as a player, but what his role
looks like and really what this offense looks like. How
much under center play action do we see? How much
pistol do we potentially see. I know Eric and Ant
we're at practice a few days ago and had mentioned
that pistol was a very common thing they were seeing
amongst the offense, So that's a ton of fun. I
really want to see those factors with specific players. I

(38:42):
am excited to watch more of Ray Davis. I feel
like Ray Davis is just an emerging young player that
really showed really well last year. Very much just a
capable running back with a lot of power, a lot
of strength. What does that look like in a preseason
game against the Giants D line that if they have
any starters at all, would be quite a test considering
how they've beefed up that line substantially.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
So I'm excited to watch him.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Obviously, other ancillary players, like I'm so excited to watch
Jackson Hawes, even though it's I'm gonna get too excited,
but like, I'm so excited to watch Jackson Hawes. He
is just my It shouldn't be my favorite player from
the draft class, but he is, just because again, it's
the funniest thing they could have done, is just get
this menacing blocking tight end. What does he look like

(39:27):
when he's getting his pads low, when he's just ramming
into people. Is he going to be able to make
an impact and create some rushing lanes on the outside.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Is he in line?

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Do they use him as a receiver often? I'm excited
to watch that. On the defensive side of the ball,
you mentioned TJ. Sanders and Dion Walker. I'm probably my
biggest two right there, at least in the front just
because again I want to see TJ. Sanders in the
three tech role if at Oliver's not playing, and how
disruptive he could potentially be a good showing from him.
But it's still a lot of confidence in Bill's fans

(39:56):
when it comes to that pass, rush and run.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Defense to boot same dion Walker.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
If you're asking Dion Walker to play like a one tech,
no stackle role, whatever you decide to align him as.
I mean, what does that look like? Does he hold
his own ground well? Can he anchor can he get
low enough to not get pushed around a run defense?
We know that that was something of a problem for
him at Kentucky. Would it be a problem again or
was there some coaching that went into him that has
really improved his technique? In form and I would say

(40:22):
the same thing for Dwayne Carter. You know Dwayne Carter
being tasked with that nose stackle, one tech role. What
does that look like for him? Do we see improvements?
Because last preseason there were numerous reps where he got
blown off the ball. Does that look more stable now?
Does he look more poised, more composed, playing sounder technique again,
not getting displaced, not getting moved around. I'm excited to

(40:43):
watch that. I'm excited to watch what the fronts look like.
If Ryan Nielsen shows any of his tricks and maybe
we see some interesting alignments, whether there are stunts, twists
to be shown, whether it's who was lining up in
what gap and getting creative with how you align your
linebackers in tandem with your line I am excited to
watch all of that for the secondary Mike, I mean
you mentioned a lot of names. Dorian Strong is someone

(41:04):
I'm curious to watch too, because I think for him.
I know, we were talking about starters originally and this
just bled into like other players, So I completely abandoned
that because again, were these starters are playing for like
five minutes?

Speaker 3 (41:14):
Folks. If you're going to watch starters, you're watching thirty
seconds of a game.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
But when we talk about other players, Dorian Strong, I
mean Max Hairstin is out. He's not going to be
practicing for a couple of weeks. He is not going
to be a factor right now. Trey White will probably
get reps. I don't know how many. You know, you
only have so many corners in the room. Maybe he doesn't,
I don't know. This is an opportunity for Dori and
Strong to wow people. You know, this was a pick

(41:38):
that a lot of people said when the Bills got him,
it was an absolute steal, and that people had him
valued as high as a third rounder, sound man technique,
someone that can play both ways as his own corner,
but really solid as a man corner and can aid
you if you're trying to go single high. Does he
get a lot of run? What does it look like
for him? How effective is he? What is the run
defense component for him look like? Are we going to

(41:58):
see sound technique from him as well? But the player
you mentioned I'm really glad you did is Jordan Hancock
because a player that I had originally envisioned to someone
more on the back end, wouldn't be cut, wouldn't be
a practice squad designation.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
He always screamed to me.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Like a cam Lewis successor that when cam Lewis has gone,
Hancock's going to slide in. Is that utility like off
the bench tactician, multiple position guy that can play nickel,
that can play free, that can play strong, that can
even play outside corner if you needed him to. I
really am excited to watch consistent, focused reps for Jordan Hancock,

(42:33):
just considering what their safety room looks like right now,
and if he is able to give us any glimpses
of hope at the safety position, because again I'm not
saying it's doomed. I'm not saying that they're never going
to play again, that it's not going to work, But
right now I think people would be very happy to
have a stabilizing presence in the safety room, and if
it is this young player who is still working on

(42:54):
his communication, as Bobby Babbage had mentioned today, who is
still figuring it out, but has that athleticism and ability
to fly to the ball be a good run defender,
makes him plays in the passing game, even if it
is a vanilla preseason game. I just think that that
can breed a lot of optimism for fans and people
who are skeptical of the current construction of the room
and ultimately boost a lot of stock for Jordan Hancock

(43:16):
himself as a mainstay for this roster as someone that
can be turned to and if you want to get
even more cheeky with it and maybe go with some
dime looks with him on the field, that would be
an option if he plays well. So he is someone
that I'm really excited to watch, and I don't think
I'm sitting here really missing anybody like Joe Andreeson would
be a lot of fun to see with some live
bullets going. I think he is going to be their

(43:38):
starting MIC in this game, just because Bernard is still
working his way back and Matt Mlano, you know, is
having a great camp, Why push the envelope with him?
Maybe he doesn't need to play this week like Andresen
and Dorian Williams, who I know is also banged up.
Could be a fun combination to watch, and I want
to see how he does because last preseason Andresen shine
in that Pittsburgh game.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
He looked exceptional.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah yeah, man, I mean he was the talk of
the town and he earned a roster spot because of
his great play in camp in preseason. I don't think
that just went away. I just think Terrell Bernard exists,
and Matt Mulatto exists, and he's just lower on the
death chart by default. But there's plenty of opportunity for
him to go out there against the Giants and make
some noise again and just continue to reinforce the depth

(44:20):
in this linebacker room, especially now that you know that
Bailet Specter's gone and his really only other Like I
guess if we want to call it threat for a spot,
which I don't even think exists, because I think he's
a lock for the roster now that Specters probably on
a season ending ire stint.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
But is Shaq Thompson. Yeah, Shaq Thompson. I always almost
say Watson every time I mentioned his name. Can you
blame me?

Speaker 2 (44:41):
He was on the team for four years. But when
I think about Joe Andreeson's rule, I think he is
shaping up to be your primary backup at the middle
linebacker position or even as an outside linebacker if Dorian
Williams goes down, and if they decide to play some
four to three, which you might very well see them
do against the Ravens. Like that is a player I'm
excited to watch. I'm sure Bill's fans and Buffalo natives

(45:01):
are excited to watch him show out there, kid, But
see what you got like again, reinforce the positive feelings
everyone has about you and just give us something to
work with when we talk about you as death this season.
And Mike, I can't really think of anyone else because
again I'm not going to say James Cook. I'm not
going to say Dalton Kincaid. I mean maybe maybe Kinkaid.
Maybe Kinkaid, but he's also kind of banged up there.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
I am interested to watch, but not for the positive reasons.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
It's Elijah Moore. Oh I want to see.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
I forgot to mention how we use him and if
we get anything positive to discuss because there was a
lot of hype from the fan base going into.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
The summer.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
Yeah, and I'll say this, having been at seven camp practices,
he has not done much at all. He started camp
rotating between the twos and the ones.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
And if you're with the.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Two with this group of receivers, that's not a good
starting point for you. I know, you could say that's
not the end of the world, but they essentially had
Curtis Samuel ahead of him at the beginning of camp.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
You could say they were rotating. That's fair. But the
role to Curtis Samuel.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Has as a gadget player was evident early on the
first days of camp before he obviously went out. The
Bills have had practices where they have been missing three
of their four top receivers, and on those days, Elijah
Moore still hasn't been noticeable.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
That's a concern when it's Kean.

Speaker 4 (46:46):
Coleman, Elijah Moore, Jalen Virgil, Tyrrell Savers, kJ Hamler in
other names and Elijah Moore is not shining.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
What's that tell you.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
I'm just gonna say the practice that Tyrrel Shavers went off,
Moore was there Yeah, I know Moore has been dealing
with some of his own issues, but I just don't
think the bills are as high on Elijah Moore as
what this fan base thinks that they are.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
And you know that can all change. On Saturday.

Speaker 4 (47:27):
He could go out, he could have like five catches
for like sixty five yards and a touchdown, and.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I'll eat my words.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
But based on what I have seen in practice, I'll
go by pass catchers, not by receivers.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Sekure is gonna be your number one volume guy, no
doubt about it.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
Coleman has actually surpassed Palmer in my opinion. Coleman is
going to be a volume He's gonna have more volume
this year. I think he's gonna be a fifty to
sixty catch guy around eight hundred yards. I think Palmer
is going to be around a fifty catch guy for
seven hundred plus. I think Kinkaid then slots in that
three or four spot and receptions, and the factor in

(48:09):
that Kincaid had an injury last year that hurt his
production at times, and Allen didn't have a great connection
with him even when Kinkaid did get open at times
last year.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
I just I don't know as much now. I don't
know if I feel as confident.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
Now about More really having a big impact on this team,
even if he is that four receiver. I think you're
looking at Max, a guy that's between twenty to thirty
catches for three hundred around three hundred yards in a season.
I do not see this elevation happening with the Bills
in their offense unless there is injuries, yeah, or things

(48:51):
drastically changing within the next month.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Yeah, And it's kind of the scenario was hoping wouldn't
happen with Elijah Moore because I was pretty bullish on
him and I still have some hope for him, but
it is disappointing to hear that his training camp hasn't
really been substantial.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
He did deal with.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Injury to start, but even then, like where he's been,
the opportunities he's had, and the receivers he's kind of
competing against, like you would expect more production from him
if he really did have this larger role or larger
standard of production in mind for him, and it just
hasn't come to fruition yet, but that could change, we
could see things. I am going to be watching him
closely just because he's really one of the only healthy

(49:29):
bodies he got. You gotta hope minding you something.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah, No, and he.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
Goes off like I would love nothing more than Elijah
Moore going off and then earning that role. And because
I feel if he's your number four receiver, I feel
pretty good on paper about that, right. But I feel
like every season we kind of do this as a
fan base. There's been years where it's Trent Sherfield, Deontay

(49:55):
Hardy last year, Curtis Damuel now the turf Tow.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
I understand that impacted him.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
There's always those guys that you look into the beginning
of OTAs and training camp, You're like, this guy is
under the radar. I don't know how we were able
to get him. With Josh Allen, that's going to bring
out the best in them. Look at the quickness and
the shorts and then the pads go on and they
just don't pop. And I had my questions in the

(50:21):
offseason based on the Bills waiting until after the draft
to sign him thirty one other teams not going after him, yeah,
and then signing for minimal money.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
And I think it's the money part that.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
Was the biggest giveaway, because if the Bills were truly
invested in him, they would have gotten after him sooner
and they wouldn't be starting him with any reps with
the twos and in training camp when you're coming off
a sixty one reception season, you shouldn't be with the
twos on the next NFL team.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
I think for that conversation, I'm sorry to cut you off, Mike,
I think too, like when we anticipated a why Moore's
role in this wide receiver room, I I mean, I
think you and I both agree to the back end,
so like something of the four or five, or if
they carried six, you could even argue five to six.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
And I think, like you know, it's not to say that.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Reps with the twos are good or a positive sign,
but I do think they would interchange both levels just
for a player that's probably gonna fill out the back
und of your wide receiver. Because if I remember correctly,
I think MBS also took reps with twos last year,
and even though he eventually got you know, removed from
the team, you know, they moved on from him, he
did make the opening man.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Yeah, I think I think a lot of people did.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I think, like dude, that is such a blip, Like
especially considering he went to the Saints and I had
like this random like I think it was like an almost
two hundred yard game and like two touchdowns.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
It was awesome.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
But that's just kind of it, like you're gonna see
him get lower tier, lower quality quote unquote reps when
you're at that spy And I think when we evaluated him,
it was never this anticipation of him being like a
highly touted guy. But again, like if you're not doing
anything productive, there's no reason for them to hold into you.
I mean, they gave OJ Howard a few years ago

(52:05):
a very low risk contract, and now there was this
widespread expectation that that was the start of twelve p
and that he was gonna even some people say you
surpd Olson Knox and become their primary tight end, and
he got cut after camp. So Elijah Moore could be
this year's OJ Howard. It could be another situation like that,
but we'll just have to see. I'm curious what it
looks like against the Giants, because if he doesn't do
anything in that game, you know, whether it's deep into

(52:27):
the second quarter, whether that's in the second half, and
there's just no volume from him.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
I definitely think, despite me kind of having.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
This problem with preseason narratives and expectations that can be
a little too heightened. We've seen it in time and
time again, I would actually think that there is tangible
evidence that it's not working out if he's not able
to achieve success with backups, if you're asking this guy
to come in and start or be one of your
starting wide receivers or sorry in that wide receiver room
against high quality starters in the regular season immediately too

(52:57):
with the Baltimore Ravens.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
So I definitely understand.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
The thing about him is and this is the thing
I actually do applaud Brandon being this offseason, is that
he really went after quality depth at several positions. Obviously
we know about the defensive line, in the cornerback room
where he double dipped with free agents and draft picks.
If worst case scenario, Elijah Moore is depth at the

(53:21):
receiver position, I don't think that's a bad thing. In fact,
I think that's a good thing in case guys do
go down, because you want to have a variety.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Of skill sets and guys that can step up.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
The thing I find interesting is in recent the last
week or so, during practice, I've seen mor Get end
a rounds and I've seen him involved in even the
running game to a certain extent. And when I see that,
it reminds me of what they're doing with Curtis Samuel
times and I had always pondered during the offseason, is

(53:55):
More here to have his own role or is he
here to compete with Curtis Samuel for that wide receiver
four number.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Now, with Samuel being out, Elijah.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
Moore still has a great chance of earning that role.
So if he earns that that spot, maybe they say
goodbye to Samuel and more can still have an impact,
maybe in a gadget gadget spot. But I think what
we were kind of talking about when he was first
signed in a OTAs was that he's a person that
can add to your could play as a vertical threat

(54:32):
that could get separation, that you could use interchangeably throughout
the receiver the receiver room. And what I'm seeing more
no pun intended, is that they're really not getting him
involved a lot.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
With those opportunities.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
It's become more gadgety, short passion and stuff like that.
While you see them taking shots downfield to Keon Coleman
doesn't have the speed, but they've had shots to Keon
Coleman down the field. They've taken shots to Tyrrel Savers
down the field. Josh Palmer has been most notable in

(55:12):
the intermediate twenty. Like every time you see it to
Josh Palmer, it's a fifteen to twenty five yard pat so,
like it's clear what they're trying to.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Do with Josh Palmer. Yeah, I think it's just the
signs right now. Things can change in the next month.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
You can change how you utilize players, but they've had
the entire offseason to kind of formulate plans for their personnel,
and it's unlikely that they're going to waiver significantly from
that four weeks before the start of the regular season.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yep, I agree with everything you said. You know, I
remember reading about Elijah Moore's usage pre to post snap
and it being basically like gadgety, and I was like, huh,
you know, Curtis Samuel's out. Is he kind of doing
what he's going to do. Is it going to be better?
Is it going to be the same, And it really
sounds like it hasn't been anything but like slightly worse.

(56:07):
So I kind of wonder if Curtis Samuel comes back
from this hamstring ailment, which again Sean McDermott said, they're
just like one day at a time with him, and
that doesn't sound like it's on the corner of being
over with. Then is Elijah Moore just going to have
to be your fill in person to start? And what
I wonder Mike too, is well, we get closer to

(56:28):
the regular season, let's say this Curtis Samuel hamstring injury lingers,
and let's say Colicia care we know isn't going to
really ramp up until probably a week or two before
the season starts. Then do they consider carrying six wide
receivers to just have more bodies in the room because
they're dealing with so many injuries? And does that mean
that one of those fringe guys, if you want to

(56:49):
call it, Elijah Moore or Tyrrell Shavers or Kayden Prather
or kJ Hamler or Jalen Virgil, any of these guys,
or we haven't even talked about Christian Wilkerson, who has
actually had a consistent and like probably better camp than
Elijah Moore has unfortunately not even unfortunately, like, if you're
good at the role, you're good at the role. It's
more just for someone who like me, who I'm pretty

(57:09):
sure I put Elijah More on my most underrated or
like highest ceiling players list, then I'm looking like I
just put milk in a hot car. But you know,
does it make them consider expanding the room a little
bit or at the very least modifying how they would
normally shape out their regular season fifty three man roster
by putting an extra receiver in there and eventually cutting
ties once the room gets healthy again. You know, did

(57:31):
they get scared off by an early injury to Josh
Palmer that thankfully has wound up being not really that significant.
But Josh Palmer has had some injuries linger in the
past that I've taken him out for considerable amounts of
time and seasons.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Do they think that it's worth it to keep more
of these guys around?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
And honestly, when you talk about the back end of
the room, yes, it's not you know, perfect, but who
has a wide receiver five that would be starting on
another team?

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Nobody.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
They're at the end of the deaf chart for a reason.
But I do like the way it's constructed, did the
type of profiles they have. If you're talking about that
speed element and the ability to separate, even if it
is by design or assisted by play calling, specifically Joe
Brady getting them in motion before with a free release
or something along those lines, then it's a good group
to have. It makes me happy that that's what you

(58:17):
get to fall back on. What I will say is
if Elijah Moore is really having that bad of a
camp and it doesn't get any better, and we're talking
about they are setting five wide receivers out, we know
who the first four are going to because it's gonna
be Coleman, it's going to be Palmer, it's going to
be Shakir, and if he's healthy, it's going to be
Curtis Samuel. Is it finally time for Terrell Shavers to
take that wide receiver five spot, to emerge from that

(58:40):
group and get it, Because, to be honest with you, man,
the guy has in my eyes, I don't treat him
like he's anything, you know, like he's not justin Jefferson.
I'm not trying to go ridiculous with this, but I
think that when you talk about consummate pro has done
everything you have asked him, has shined in the preseason,
has shined in practice and training camp, has a rapport

(59:02):
with Josh Allen, evidently proven by how many reps you've
seen to them, while these other receivers have been hurt
and in his only game action, yes it was garbage time,
but made a very substantial play and explosive play.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Is Tyrell Shavers.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Finally going to get his opportunity to fill out the
back end of the room. And when we just tie
this into this preseason game argument or not really an argument,
We're not yelling at each other, Mike, I don't know
why I call it an argument. We're having a great conversation,
but a preseason bout. You know, do we think that
Tyrell Shavers has the most to gain from a really
good performance? And I'm gonna be excited to watch him

(59:38):
because if he shows out, Man, I don't see why
you wouldn't give him the wide receiver five. He's been
here a few years. He knows everyone in the room,
he knows the playbook, he knows the play caller, he
knows his fellow receivers. But even so, just like his build,
the frame, like the speed, that's paired with it, there's
a lot to like about the individual player.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Why not so?

Speaker 2 (59:59):
I mean, and if it's not Elijah Moore, If Elijah Moore,
who I had just lean to because of his veteran
presence and the fact that he's been around the league
and came off a pretty productive season on a bad offense,
If it's not him, Terrelle Shavers is not a bad
option to have as your wide receiver five or potentially
six if they go with that, and I'd be happy
for him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
I think he's more than deserving of it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
But we'll have to see Mike any final thoughts on
this upcoming preseason matchup before we sign off for the evening.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Yeah, I just want to carry off what you just said.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
I really do think Shavers deserves a shot at making
this team.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
If I had a camp crush right now.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
As far as like player I'm hoping really goes out
in balls and catches the attention of fans, it is Shavers. Ultimately,
I don't know if he would make the team over
in Elijah Moore or a Curtis Samuel. At this point,
I don't know if the Bills are trying to decide
between Samuel and Moore, or if they're both safe, if
it might be that they need to keep six guys

(01:00:54):
in order to get Shavers on the roster. But they've
spent two years of development on him right now as
a UDFA I believe, out of San Diego State and
then was started out at Alabama. I remember his the
year he came out of college. All the talk was
justin Shorter and Shavers clearly better than Shorter, and that

(01:01:16):
caught my eye right away. Fans wanted to elevate Shorter
and it just he just didn't have it. But Tyrol
Shavers I do think has it. And yes we're talking
about a depth guy. This isn't a person that's going
to change the fortunes of your team this year.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
But I like what he brings to the table.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
I do believe the Bills see something in him, and
some receivers do take a little bit longer time to
get to where they need to be, and I do
believe that Shorter might have something, so I would love
to see him make the team. Last thoughts going into
this game. Obviously this is the typical spiel. Hopefully no injuries,

(01:01:56):
the youngsters have some good moments and just get through
it and get through the rest of the preseason. I'm
not even gonna be going to this game, but I'll
be paying attention closely on television. It's just it's one
of those things where not to say this is a
bad thing. I think it's a good thing. But this

(01:02:17):
Bill team is kind of boring right now. They have
a good culture in place. They do what they're supposed
to do, they know what they are, their identity, and
outside of the James Cook situation, there's really no drama.
There's really no storylines. It's just get the each day
and then eventually we're gonna be September seventh, Sunday Night Football,

(01:02:39):
and things get real at that point in time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
And that's what I'm waiting for.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
I just just get through the next next month and
fall out to start the regular season.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Absolutely man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
And yeah, just final takeaways from this episode and conversation
that I could say to anyone is keep your eyes
on the James Cook situation. But let's get ridiculous with
how we talk about the player. Yes, it's unfortunate that
he's not practicing, but James Cook is entitled to get
the money he deserves. If that's with the Bills, great.
If it's not with the Bills, then great. He deserves

(01:03:12):
to get money for the production that he has put
out there. No one wants to see anything happen to
a player where they miss out on that opportunity. So
I just hope the situation gets resolved one way or
the other and that we can all have a peaceful
embark into the season, because it seems like there's been
a lot of crazy narratives going on or at least
crazy storylines that have occurred this entire offseason with injury
and with scares and stuff, so it'd be one last

(01:03:34):
thing to be stressed out over.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
I guess you could say.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
The other thing is when it comes to injuries, Like
Mike just said, stay healthy. You know, I'm knocking on
woodbound of wood next to me, so I'm just knocking
on my forehead, you know, stay healthy. Let's not see
anyone meaningful go down in this game. I'm hoping for
that to be the case, and that we can just
keep having practices that stack on each other with more
and more bodies coming back into the fray, and that

(01:03:57):
by week one, all of our bodies are there and
we're able to have a productive game with everyone we
can depend on, and that includes young players that they
are going to have to be dependent on early on.
As of course, you're seeing six game suspensions for two
very key pieces to your d line, So these guys
got to stay on the field, and I'm hoping so.
And just you know, for the guys that are already injured,

(01:04:17):
I'm certainly hoping that Curtis samu will, Cole Bishop, Taylor,
Rep and all get back and get their reps in
because they are really needed, and especially Cole Bishop, like,
just heal up, man, get back out there, showcase what
you got because when he's healthy, I'm telling you, this
guy is going to be a very good player and
a very good part of this secondary and I'm looking
forward to it. And just as far as this game

(01:04:38):
goes to anyone going enjoy it. If you're watching it
on TV like Michael Bit, then enjoy it. I am
actually going to try my best to simultaneously watch it
while I'm also at a different sporting event the same day.
So it's going to be a challenge, especially if there
may or may not be a large beer in one
of my hands while the other one is holding a
cell phone. But we're going to do our best friends.

(01:04:59):
We're going to try our yes. But Mike, you're an
awesome guest as always, and I cannot stress enough how
awesome the work you've been putting out has been this
entire summer.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
If you guys are not following at mike.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Underscore bund Bund Takes, please check him out, see everything
that he's got coming out, because seriously, he's getting close
up interviews with players. You just interviewed Dion Dawkins the
other day. If I'm not mistaken right.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
There's been a love d Anom McGovern keon, Maxwell Harrison,
Christian Benford, ye Man, Greg Russo, Joe and Rason, Josh Palmer,
Elijah Moore, and then I was at the Babbage and
McDermott pressers.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
So it's been a lot. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Listen man, that's just the start, and you guys can
see all of that on his Twitter. Check him out,
check out everything going on over at train Wreck. Those
guys do a great job of Mike is again just
an awesome person to get on here. So Mike, thank
you so much for all of you that have tuned
into this week's episode. I appreciate the heck out of
each and every single one of you. Past few episodes
have been really fun, have been great. It's good to

(01:06:01):
be back in the swing of things again again. This
is a bit of a new format for the show
that I decided to do out of nowhere because I
was like.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
Damn, my commute got longer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Why don't I just try pre recording, And then I realized,
oh my god, pre recording is so nice.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
And convenient, I'm just gonna keep doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
So I've been trying to engage with people in the
comments after the show premieres on our channel. So I
know the liy format is what you guys are used to,
but I still try to actively keep up and I
appreciate anyone who is leaving comments, who is liking, and
who is subscribing two Hour Channel, which if you have
not done yet, you should do that right now. As
soon as you are done with this episode, you should

(01:06:36):
sign up for the one past that is in the
description below, and it will give you access to all
of the amazing perks that you can get being an insider,
including our premium discord, which is a ton of fun
to be a part of. It's a great time to
be a Bill's fan. Folks, It's a great time for
Bill's content. With every network out there, including our very own,
there is a lot that you can consume as we
get through the rest of the summer and gear up

(01:06:58):
for the regular season. But Mike Bunt, once again, thank you.
My name is Joe DeRosa. By the time you see
me next, I will be just a year older man.
They grow up so fast. Time marches on. I'm going
to have an existential crisis when this camera turns off.
But before I click the end recording button, I am
going to say good night, take care, enjoy the weekend,

(01:07:19):
and as always, friends, go Bills.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
We'll see you soon.

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