Bills Roster Discussion: Questions, Comments, and MAJOR Concerns | UR - Under Review

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Previous play, we'll go under Review.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome everybody to this week's episode of Under Review. My
name is Jodah Rosa, and I am so grateful for
each and every single one of you for tuning in
listening however you get this show. We are very close
to the final preseason game, which means we are very
close to one of the most unfortunate days of the
NFL season, which is roster cutdown Day. This upcoming Wednesday,

(00:58):
you will see plenty of faces that have been dear
themselves to Bills fans this offseason unfortunately not make the
cut for the active roster and either be relegated to
practice squad or to other pastors in the NFL or elsewhere.
It's a rough time for coaches, for the organizations, and
it's also a chaotic time, and especially this year, a

(01:18):
time that I would find is one of the most
difficult when it comes to predicting what this final roster
is going to look like. There are a lot of
question marks surrounding the Bills roster currently, be it from
play itself, from certain players in experience, injury, suspension, and
it leads to a very large ongoing debate of months

(01:39):
of fan base of who will solidify themselves for those
final few spots. We don't know, so on tonight's episode,
what we are going to do is discuss the players
that we feel have the most to prove in each
positional group and kind of explain who we think might
have a great chance of making it, who has an
outside shot, and what would really need to happen for

(01:59):
these players to get their final spot until we learn
what actually happens when the Bills shape out their final roster.
And when I say we, I never just made me.
It's never just me on this show, folks. That's a why.
It actually has been a couple of times, but tonight
it's not. I have a returning guest to this show,
a friend of mine, someone who I really enjoy speaking
to about the Bills, about ball, especially about fantasy lately

(02:21):
because of the Dynasty Draft that took three years to finish.
It's finally over, but his time on the show is
just beginning. Mister John Helmcamp, John, welcome back. It's been
been a bit, honestly, a few weeks, even a few months.
I would say, how has everything been, How you're doing?
What's the vibel like right now?

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Man, I'm good man, I am excited, and you know,
it wouldn't be a show with the one and only
Joda Rosa without a.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Bubbly at my side.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
So yeah, this show not sponsored by Bubbly, but should
be Yes doing good. It's it's been a crazy summer.
It has been a few months since we've talked. I
don't think that we've hopped on since any of the
since any sort of training camp. I don't think that
we've talked since the Bills have been back on the field.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
So it's been a minute.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
A lot has happened, a bit of a banged up
sort of summer for the Bills. Hopefully take a couple
of weeks and kind of get right going into the
regular season for the most part, although today today was
a bit of a downer for sure, and I'm sure
we're gonna talk about that.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
We are going to talk about it. We're actually gonna
open the show with it, which is unfortunate. But I
don't have a Bubbly in hand. I'm actually been on
a Sprite zero kick. I just I fell hard for
Sprite zero, man. I think it's just like I try
not to get a lot of sugar in my diet
as it is, unless it's like, you know, the weekend
or a special day of the week. But these have
just become the automatic replacement and people could say what
they want, artificial sweetener blah blah blah. They're tasty. I

(03:44):
like them, and each physical I've gone through has been
a success so far. I hope that doesn't change anytime soon.
Knock on.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Also, drink, drink your water, people, drink, get your actual.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Water in your life. I don't have it on me,
but it's been seen on the show a few times.
But I have the hydro jug like not very far
away from me. That's my go to. I have two
of them, actually, one at work and one here. But yes,
it is unfortunate news that we opened the show with
the fact that Trey White suffered an injury today. Now,
as of tonight, we do not know the severity, so

(04:15):
it is very possible that tomorrow, whenever the show airs,
this could be you know, us kind of overreacting and
it actually wasn't that serious. You know. I also saw
today that t Higgins went with an ankle injury and
it turns out he was just fine, So it could
be the same for Trey. What we know about. It
was that he came off the field, which trainers was
able to walk under his own power, albeit very slowly,

(04:37):
waited outside with trainers, eventually came back and then eventually
left on a cart. Now, the thing I will say
is kart is a keyword that fires up every neuron
and every fans brain when they see it, that it
is the absolute worst case scenario. I am not saying
that it's not. It very well could be, but it
also doesn't automatically mean his legs exploded and he'll never

(04:58):
play football again. It could just mean, like I believe
it was Joe Buscaglia reported, it just means they have
a long way to travel, they're on a gimbi foot,
gimpy ankle, and they need to be transported because it
makes no sense to make them walk like the Jags
did to Trevor Warrence just a few years ago, which
I still giggle at. Which franchise quarterback make them walk
half a mile to the locker room on a what life.

(05:19):
But it's unfortunate to see that Trey went down. We're
both hoping it's not serious, so I want to leave
it open ended. We don't know the news yet. But John,
let's just say that path of this is a serious injury,
maybe not season en because if it's season ending, then
it's season ending. It is what it is. But ye
making an ir stint. I mean, what do you think
it means for the corner room as far as the depth,

(05:42):
as far as who you'd like to see at the
CB two position to kind of fill in for Trey.
I mean, what are your thoughts on that situation?

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Honestly, the cornerback room, I think we were all really
excited about seeing it improve a little bit this offseason.
You had first round pick Max Harris didn't come in,
Trey White returns. Early in camp, he was killing it.
He was great for like the first week of camp,
and then it seems like over the last week and
a half to two he kind of trailed off a
little bit. The reports weren't quite as as great coming out,

(06:11):
But you still have a lot of hope for him
and his veteran presence and just his familiarity and knowledge
of this defensive system in general for him to be
able to be a contributor and maybe really hold it
down if Harrison is going to miss a little bit
of time. But now you know, it's possible that both
of them are out to start this season, and if
that happens, I don't know. You're looking at cam Lewis,

(06:33):
You're maybe Dorian Strong gets thrown to the Wolves early.
I don't know really what the plan is strong. By
all accounts, I think it's had a really good camp.
I'm happy with what I've heard about him. JaMarcus Ingram
another name that might get some looks out there. It's
not great. It's not horrible, though, and I don't want
people to think that it's the end of the world now.
I think where my concern mostly lies is that if

(06:57):
the corner room isn't as strong as we were hoping
it to be, especially not right away out of the gate,
with the safety play being as big of a question
mark as it's been, then we start getting into some
territory where okay, the secondary might be a bit of
a problem spot, and that's not great, So defensive front
better get home. Let's let's cause some havoc up front.

(07:19):
But you know, we love our CB one out there.
Christian Benford. Obviously Toront Johnson in his nickel position, you
still have a lot of veteran experience out there and
all in all, I think the defense is going to
be okay, but it might take a little bit. I
think for this secondary to kind of come together this season.
It might not be a blazing hot start for this defense.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
I agree with that. I think these questions can be
lingering for the for the first few weeks of the
season when you think about the situation with Cole Bishop
and the uncertainty of that or even their second safety,
and now with Corner. So let's say Trey White is
not okay and needs four to six weeks, four to

(08:02):
eight weeks something, you know, more severe than what we're
hoping for. Obviously, I would say that I'm not totally
comfortable with really any of the options. It's full time
CB two. I love the idea of the Bill's cornerback
room coming into training camp when it was fully healthy,
because I had said, you know, you got Max Harriston,
who's a rookie with a really nice athletic profile, and

(08:23):
he's going to be a lot of fun, Trey White
to rotate in to take some slack off this room
and really help you with the veteran presence. And then
guys like Dorian Strong, JaMarcus Ingram. Those are like luxury
pieces at the very back end of your corner room
that if you need them for a couple of plays
or to fill in, I feel comfortable. But when it
comes to a full time role with guys like them

(08:44):
and Dan Jackson, you know, I don't feel as comfortable,
just because again there they've been known to be deaf pieces.
But when death pieces get called upon, that's when you
start to see the cracks in the foundation because of
the injuries you've suffered and what the room is turned into.
It's not to say these guys are awful, but you're
not going to get as high of a ceiling with
that position as you once would. So we hope that
Trey can get better. We hope that he can be

(09:06):
able to play week one and that it was just
a scare and we still have that luxury of having
him and those pieces before Max Harriston comes back. And
even then, I don't think Max Harriston is going to
take that CB two role from Trey. But what I
would say is just given my thoughts on McDermott and
how much he values experience, I mean, you're looking at

(09:27):
this Cole Bishop situation and McDermott didn't guarantee him the
safety job because he hasn't gotten enough reps and he
doesn't feel comfortable with the fact that he hasn't. So
DeMar Hamlin is very likely at this point in time.
I don't think it's a guarantee, but I think it's
a high likelihood that he could get this starting safety
spot to at least start the season out. Yeah, I
think for experience sake and how Sean McDermott values that

(09:49):
a guy like Dan Jackson or a guy like JaMarcus
Ingram could be your CB two opposite, I would prefer
it if you had to get the two JaMarcus Ingrim,
just because I think Ingram does have the ability to
play a little bit better than Dane might. Where you
saw Dane kind of get dusted a bit in times
last year in Carolina, I would prefer Ingram. But even then,

(10:11):
I'm not too crazy about it. But that's the situation
they're dealing with right now. John. And if Trey is
actually okay and it's not anything long term, it's maybe
day to day, week to week, and he can play
week one, then it's all moot. But if it's worse
we're talking about yet another position that has multiple people
competing for the starting role that we didn't anticipate, So

(10:31):
any more thoughts on that before we move on to
our next time.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
It's messy, and like you said, I don't think we're
gonna know. We're not gonna know until right before week one.
I think you've got a couple injuries here that are lingering.
Maybe there's IR usage in play for White, maybe for
Hairston also, I don't know, and in which case that
would kind of take those names off the radar pretty quickly.
But if they don't go on IR, I think this

(10:57):
is gonna be an ongoing conversation right up in until
you know, week one, right up until kickoff, in terms
of who's going to be out there, and we'll find
out when when when the ball gets snapped, you know
what I mean. So it's going to be really interesting.
It is unsettling. It's not a warm, fuzzy feeling for sure.
Maybe this is a team that is exploring the corner

(11:20):
market right now a little bit more. Maybe there's a
potential trade out there to bring in more of a
veteran presence. I don't have any names top of mind.
In terms of what that would look like. But it
just wouldn't surprise me if Bean was kicking around or
he's just watching for potential cut candidates on other teams
for next Wednesday to sign somebody that gets cut and

(11:40):
bring them into compete. So I don't know, it's muddy.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
And they won't be shy about making an attempt to
get somebody that they might have value during draft time
that doesn't make someone's roster. I mean, even just this
week you saw them bring in Zia Alexander, someone that
I had mentioned the Bills should potentially draft when we
were during the off season, and.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
A Sante Samuel Junior today was in the building.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
So I think that was a fake report. Actually was
it that? I think? I'm sorry, John, I think you
got Shefflard. I think you got Adam Shefflard. That think
again gets Scheffleerd. I'm looking at it right now, you
son of see.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
That's the problem. That's the problem with the with the
top or with the recommended posts. Yeah, I'm not following it.
Don't make me look at that crap.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Just let me look at You are not the only one.
You are not the only one who got got don't worry.
I saw multiple people talk about it because because why not, right,
Like the guy knew or the person knew that they
just suffered an injury. Don't know how to be honest,
so what's the best way to get clicks? Like that's
that's what SCHEFFLERD does. I had to mute the account
because I can't stand stuff like that. But but I

(12:47):
more can't stand it because like, if I fall for it, it's
on me and I don't ever want that to happen
because it's happened before and it drives me nuts. And
I know how you're feeling. I've done the same, But
it's not that Samuel Jr. If he is cleared to play,
the biggest thing that I have read about him is
that he is still recovering and that his injury is

(13:11):
very uncertain, because if I recall correctly, it was his
neck and there was like a lot of question marks
about durability and whether he fully recovered and what that's
going to look like when you talk about tackling and
you know, kind of similar I would say terrain to
Micah Hyde, not saying it's the same exact injury, but
rather like those were the questions you had about the
long term future. I'm not opposed if they feel his

(13:31):
medicals are clean to giving him a shot, especially with
how long he's been on the open market and how
well his contract probably would be right now with medical concerns.
But let's see what happens with Trey White first, and
hopefully it's good news, because Trey's an awesome guy. Trey
is an awesome cornerback. I was very comfortable with him
taking that CB two mantle this year, given how he's
been playing a camp which had looked like vintage Trey

(13:52):
maybe with a slight step back. I want him back,
So let's see what happens with that before we overreap.
But if he is gone for long term season, in
long or four to six weeks, I have questions about
this quarterback room and subsequently the secondary right now that
I hope can get quelled as soon as week one
or at least in the early part of the year.
But John, I want to move on to next topic,
and you know it's something we talked about offline, but

(14:15):
really the bottom of this roster, so we could say
pretty comfortably like high forties, you can even say fifty
positions are pretty much solidified for this team, right like that,
there's so many is the good thing about being a
fan of a team that wins a lot. There's a
lot of roster preservation, and I think Brandon Bean does
a really nice job of keeping his homegrown talent on

(14:36):
the books and having them for a long time, as
you've seen this offseason with all the extensions he had
most recently with James Cook. But there is a very
very open competition at the back end of this roster
for numerous positional groups. And I am very curious to
hear your thoughts on this. I mean, just what are

(14:56):
the ones specifically that you're really watching out for. What
would you see the most likely outcome being what do
you think is something that would shock you? I mean,
just anything you got for this topic in particular, I
want to hear it.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
I think that the one that gains the most attention
because it's probably the flashiest, flashiest position in football is
the wide receiver position, and it's one where every year
it seems like the last spot on the roster, the
last two is a battle for a wide receiver. At
least that's been a recent trend in recent years.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
We know that.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Coleman, Palmer Shakir are locked in. After that, you have
a handful of wide receivers in Curtis Samuel, Tyrrell Shaver's,
Elijah Moore, Laviscus Chanal. Those four probably more than anything,
are competing for probably three spots on the team. So

(15:54):
one of those four is probably going to miss. In
my opinion, I'm kind of going out and saying the
kJ Hammler doesn't make it. I think that he's kind
of an odd man out at this point, although you
never know. Maybe he surprises because of his route running
abilities and his speed. He's also freaking hilarious. Love him
and hard knocks. Put a microphone on him all the time,

(16:14):
Like I just would pay a lot of money to
listen to that NonStop. But I think the wide receiver
position is going to be a really fascinating one, and
it depends on the usage that you're looking for. Leviscus
Chanlt really could be a factor on special teams. There's
different things that you can do with him as that
really kind of big hybrid get the ball into his

(16:34):
hand type guy, like some running ability to Curtis Samuel,
I think because of the cap, because of the money
that's invested into him. I think that he's probably safe,
even though he hasn't had the greatest trading company. He's
been injured for about a month now with hamstring, but
he was able to finally get on the field like
this week and start getting back a little bit. So
it's going to be interesting.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Though.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
He has had no reps in eleven on eleven with
Josh Allen this entire preseason, and so if he does
make the roster going into Week one, you know they
haven't connected in eleven on eleven since last season, which
is not ideal. Tyrol Shavers, I think he's the fan
favorite for that last spot in the wide receiver room.

(17:15):
What are your thoughts. I think that he's showing some
ability where he's really developed a little bit more in
his route running into his releases. I think it's it's
polished up a little bit. There's still room to go there.
But in terms of what he brings to the field
as a deep thread, I think he's an interesting six
wide receiver on the roster.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
No, I totally agree. Last week when I had Bruce
Nolan on, I had said that it felt like Tyrrel
Shavers had the job. We kind of debated it just
because Elijah Moore was getting run with the ones, but
then this past game you saw Tyrell Shavers kind of
wap him in a way, and I think that Tyrrell
Shavers has that spot right now. I think when it
comes to the actual player, the speed that he can bring,

(17:54):
at least play speed he brings is useful for this
line up that really needs separated down the field. But
also the body and the frame, even if you don't
think he's the most physical guy, I would argue that
it's still good to have that frame in the red zone.
Still good to have that frame on the line, still
good to have it on third and short, and then
paired with them trying to give him more run with
special teams and trying to see something from him there.

(18:16):
The biggest thing for me when McDermott made that comment
a few weeks ago about like the special teams and
the reps and the improvement he needs to see almost
made it sound like they're hoping he can because they
want to have him on this back end. And I
think he has it right now, and I think we'll
get to this a little further. But with the wide
receiver room, I have some thoughts on the back end,
including him and some other players. But I think you know,

(18:38):
it's so competitive, it's really and that's what makes it
so tricky, because it's not just the fact that you
have some uncertainties in the back end of your wide
receiver room or your safety room, or whatever you want
to call it. It's the fact that even with those
the clearcuts that come out of it, you still have
IR candidates that you're probably going to put on very soon.
You still have suspensions you have to deal with, probably

(19:00):
four to six spots. I would say, if Trey's injury
is not serious, I'm anticipating four open spots with those
suspensions in IR combined. I'll spoil it right now. I
think the IR is going to likely be SVPG and
Max Harrison. I don't think they're gonna want to rush
Max Harriston back. I think they're gonna want him to
be as healthy as possible for when he is able
to go, especially for someone that just had a knee injury.

(19:22):
That was a scare, but you don't want to run
the risk of anything more severe. And then I think,
obviously for your suspensions, Hoyt and Ogunjobe being out, they
have to offset that. So I think it really is
like four open spots, and I think that that's going
to be really, really tough to decide who gets those
last couple because there's so much debate about how many

(19:42):
wide receivers they're going to carry, Hey, how many dvs
are they going to carry? How many linebackers And the
reality is your guess is just as good as mine.
But we're gonna try and at least go through these
positional groups and find who we think has the most approved,
who we think has like the likeliest chances of right now,
and hope this take does really age. Like Milk and John,

(20:03):
I want to bring it straight to the topic. Now,
quarterback we could start with. I think quarterback is transparently
going to be Josh Allen and Mitch Trubisky. I don't
think that would be any surprise. I don't think Mike
White makes the roster. I think they're gonna despite the
fact that I would personally like Mike White. I also
think having Mitch as a backup is valuable only because

(20:25):
not just the rapport he has with Joe Brady the
room Josh, but if you see a ramp up in
play action this year. That benefits Mitch Trubisky. That's where
he's at his best. You give him space to create,
you give him space to roll out. He actually can
make his money that way. I hope to God he
never plays a regular season snap unless the game is

(20:46):
completely in the Bills hands by like thirty points. But
I think if you were in a situation where Mitch
had to come in for a game two games, and
you are talking about an offense that is doing a
ton of again power running and just really hammering you
with the ball, paired with Mitch just getting room in
the back and being able to roll out, I think
that could be okay. I think it can sustain you

(21:08):
for some time. And I think he's the more optimal
quarterback to have that, so I would choose him still,
I mean, any debate on quarterback. Do you think Sean
Buchelle gets his shot this year? John, What do you think? Nope?

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Nope. I don't expect there to be much of a
fight there. Love Mike White. He's been a great into
the room. Everyone likes him. He's a tough SOB that
can hang in there and get punched in the mouth
and get right back up. For sure, But I totally
agree Trubisky's best when he's on the move, and if

(21:42):
that is the expectation for this offense this season, I
think he's the best fit skill set wise and familiarity
to be the number two.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, I totally agree. And I don't really have much
more to add on that, because again it's it's Josh's room,
but running back another one that I don't think there's
any debate on. James Cook, Ray Davis, and Ty Johnson's
how I see it shaking out right now, and I
don't Frank gor Junior has had a nice preseason, mostly
a couple issues, but I think that there really just

(22:14):
isn't room. That's kind of what it is. I just
feel like the room's way too established. So I don't
think really there's a running back right now that has
the most approved unless god forbid, Ty Johnson if he
plays goes down with some sort of injury knock on
wood and then in which case, I think Frank gor
Junior is your next in line, So I would say
he probably has the most approved just from a standpoint

(22:34):
of like, if I have a really good third game
and there is an injury, I'll get that spot, especially
with Darrenton Evans nursing something and that now being kind
of a more open path for him. I mean, what
do you think about that? Is there any thoughts of really, one,
any running back you' surping anyone in this room, but
two who that would be if it happens.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
No, I think the room barring injury is set. I
think that it's pretty clear cut that way.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Frank R. Junior.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
I think there might be a little bit of truth
to the fact that he might be auditioning for another team.
I think that he could be a cut candidate that
they hope to get back on the practice squad, and I.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Think another team might pick him up.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
I think that he's shown some really good burst and vision,
and I think that there's going to be some other
teams that might be interested in him. So if we
get him back on the practice squad, I will be thrilled.
But I think we might see him in another uniform.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, either that a practice squad. If you think that
there's an abundance of running backs, and you know, it
sucks because I like the player, I like what he brings,
but it's just that timing. It's a team that had
the room satisfied, and they just needed someone on the
fringe in case they had to tap in and they
never did. And you know, if he was a crazy
pass blocker, if he was a crazy special teamer, I

(23:50):
think it would help his case a little bit more
because then maybe they'd feel like, Okay, well we don't
need to pay Ti Johnson. We have this guy we drafted.
But Ty Johnson just does those things so demonstrably well
that they brought him back on a contract and they
are just probably gonna roll with that. So I fortunately
don't see it for him. You know, it hurts because
I love Frank More and I think his son is

(24:11):
a talented player. I hope if it's not with the Bills,
he does get an opportunity, because I think he definitely
deserves it. But I just don't think it's realistic right now.
If this room stays healthy, that he takes it. And
I don't think there's really any running back currently that
has a chance to really prove much other than like
if someone gets hurt, I'm here, and in which case
like practice squad, I hope that's Frank Gore or steals
up and they don't you know, if if they decide

(24:33):
to keep him or whatever, like whatever goes on with
Evans long term. I don't know if he's gonna stay
in the nether if we ever see his name in
regular season, but I would argue that that's another quality
option only because of the return experience, and I think
he's a decent runner too. But to me, it's FGJ
I would like to keep. I don't think it happens

(24:54):
wide receiver John the perilous murky waters of wide receiver
or the most annoying conversation that we have every single year,
whether there is a good set of receivers, whether it
is a question of mark as far as the full
roster goes Khalil Shakir and Keon Coleman and Josh Palmer
to me or locks yep. I would also argue that

(25:16):
Curtis Samuel, while not being a fan favorite, currently is
a lock. I will keep reinforcing the fact that one
the money is that he is owed is so much
that the only way the Bills are going to get
a trade partners if they eat the money entirely or
a majority. I don't think Brandon Bean wants to do that.
But also this is not a proven enough wide receiver

(25:37):
room to justify giving up a weapon, I call Curtis
Samuel a weapon. When Curtis Samuel is healthy, he is
an incredibly useful piece in this wide receiver room. He
came through in numerous moments for Josh Allen and co.
In the end of the regular season and in the playoffs.
He is your essential slot handcuff. Essential it's not even

(25:57):
a word there. It might be I don't know, essential
slot handcuff to Khalil Shakier. It provides you with that
lateral field separation ability, but can go upfield in a
pinch if you need him to. It's not where you
prefer him, but he can do it, speed motion, all
these things that you can do with him. I don't
think it's worth it to let him go in any

(26:18):
capacity right now. I hope the Bills don't do it,
and I don't think they have the luxury to do
it because I ask you this, John. Let's say Curtis
Samuel does get traded, does get cut, who is better
than him outside of those three I listed right now
on this roster that you would feel one hundred comfortable
slotting in his place as your primary slot backup to

(26:41):
Khalil Shakher, Who mean not someone tell me, but.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
I I'll tell you it's and it's It's a very
similar conversation to Curtis Samuel. I've liked Elijah Morrison's he
came into the league. Both of them, it's a health concern.
So if it's just straight up for taking help out
of the equation, and they're both like Curtis Samuel's the
fourth best wide receiver on this team if health was
not a question at all. And that's the only problem

(27:08):
for me is that he's had no work at all
this preseason. But he's such a veteran and he's been
around the team, and he was here last year, and
he has the money owed.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
I think odds are that he's on this team as
the number four wide receiver unless they're just looking at
it like this guy can't stay healthy, We can't count
on him. It's not worth the roster spot. But you don't,
like you said, you don't have that luxury. Elijah Moore
is not a guarantee to stay healthy either. It's not
like you have a super healthy guy waiting in the
wings behind him that can do something similar. Other than that,

(27:39):
is there anyone that has a similar skill set? kJ
Hamler also health concerned. You've got three backup slot type
wide receivers that all have injury histories. It's a very
similar prototype that you have. So I think you give
the nod to where the money is. You're already paying
the guy. Keep him on what I mean like, it's

(28:01):
keep him on the roster.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
It's not like we got by the way.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
I can't wait to talk about wide receivers in Round
two of the NFL draft next year.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Again. It's gonna happen every year, or defensive one in
edge rusher, defensive tech order. I made a joke so
many times that they're going to do the exact same
draft strategy that they did this past year, oh again
this upcoming year, no matter how good it is. That's
the thing. It could be a gray d line. But
they're losing pieces and they're going to have to replenish.
But and I also just let this up. I want

(28:30):
to just clarify something earlier. I forgot Evans was placed
on the IR but he wasn't waved, so they do
still have him floating. That to me is almost like
they're like, he's heard enough where it's justified, but it
might help them stash him in a way so that
when he comes off ir he can go straight to
the practice squad and they have him at that break
lastic case of emergency. But I do wonder if that means, well,
now there's more of an incentive to try and retain

(28:53):
Frank or Junior on the practice squad if they can,
and hope someone doesn't poach him. But regardless, with Curtis Samuel,
it doesn't feel right to cut him or trade him.
Yet I understand fan frustrations, I really do. I hate injuries.
I don't want to see them happen, and I hate
when it's recurring because obviously, you need players to get reps.
You need players to have chemistry with your quarterbacks in

(29:14):
the receiving room, and when you see someone go down consistently,
it inhibits that and in turn can make an offense worse.
So it's not ideal. But Curtis Samuel has been ramping
up consistently for the past two weeks. We have seen
him on the practice field, going from not practicing or
doing very light work to limited and will soon ramp
up enough where he's going to be able to go
on a game field with the team. And I do

(29:35):
think with this trajectory he's going to be ready for
Week one. It makes zero sense for me to move
him right now, I think as your wide receiver for
and again, I just simply don't think this room is
proven enough to justify moving on from a proven player
when he's healthy for a player that you hope can
replicate his play to the same degree also can stay healthy.

(29:57):
I just simply don't think that player is on this roster. Yeah,
and you gonna, yeah, what are you gonna do.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
You're gonna You're gonna move him in a six to
seven pick swap and have to retain half of his
salary Like that, that's not worth it at all.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
That makes sense. It's worth it if you have Stefan
Diggs asking to leave, and even if the dead cap
is thirty one million dollars, a team gives you a
second round pick for him, that's a completely different story.
No team is giving you the second round of for
Curtis Samuel right now.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
And you're not getting the fifth.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
You're getting a six or a seven at best, And
you just had to eat all that money. And like
there's always the annoying argument of addition by subtraction. It's
not auditioned by subtraction. It's pure subtraction. The player is gone.
Your room did not get better as a result of this.
Even if you want to say the cap that they
accrued is a net positive, cool, what are you spending

(30:48):
that on? And also, are you spending it on something
that's going to help make your offense better? Is there
a receiver floating out there that you could justify spending
that money too, that's worth it? Like are you gonna
give it back to Amari Cooper? Like keep Curtis Samuel,
keep the dude who knows your playbook, keep the dude
who's played with Josh Allen, and just see how it goes.
And you know what if if fails this year and
the injuries are bad and it gets to a point

(31:10):
where like, okay, he cannot stay on the field at all,
then I'll entertain this conversation a hell of a lot
more next offseason. But I just think it's way too
premature right now to say get rid of him. Like
the dude who got your last touchdown catch in the playoffs,
he was very important in that game in the Denver game, Like, yeah,
he didn't have a thousand thousand years, he didn't have
one hundred yards, but he still was productive. Like, that's

(31:31):
still a productive player. Just let him get healthy and
let's see what this turns into, because it's it's kind
of insane that we're entertaining this, to be honest. But
besides him, this is where it gets tricky because there's
one question you have to ask yourself to start, how
many wide receivers are the Buffalo Bill's planning to keep?
And that answer for me, for the longest time John

(31:52):
was five. But then two suspensions happened. Players go to
the IR and we see comments about how vague it
is after your top three in this room, and also
members of those top three got banged up. Josh Palmer
to a wider degree. Khalil Shakier has an ankle sprain.
He will probably play in Week one, but will he

(32:12):
be as effective as he normally is. I asked this
question with Bruce last week. So your bottom of your
wide receiver room now means that if you only keep five,
it's Curtis Samuel ramping up from injury, and then a
fifth option, which, as I mentioned before, as you mentioned before,
I think it's Tyrrel Shavers. But I will say this,
I think that because of their injuries. This is honestly,

(32:34):
I knew this was gonna happen. This is turning into
a full borne prediction. But I don't even care at
this point, I'm still gonna read it. I'm like, I'm
so heated from the Samuel conversation that, like I just
want to say, screw it, Like, let's just predict the roster.
Let's go yeah, abandon the ideals. Whatever you saw on
the intro of the show, folks, that was the old mape.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
The sixths changed, guys.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
It's times have changed in the thirty two minutes and
fifty seconds since the show started. It's anyways, because of
the injuries. Because of the suspensions, I feel far more
inclined to say that it's likely they go six wide receivers. Now.
It's not a what. It's not that I think they
would have done this if they had those players. But

(33:16):
I think that because these players are off the roster,
it makes them reevaluate where they might need more depth.
And I think that the depth at the positions for
Hoyt and Ogan Joby is okay. To start, whereas I
feel a lot less comfortable with the depth that wide receiver,
and I think you can afford yourself the luxury to
start your season with six, to see what it feels

(33:38):
like and how it works as far as pass catching goes. Now,
I've said this, why I wanted five to two is
because I think they spread the ball around so much
that do you really need to roster that six wide receiver?
But I would argue right now, because of the ambiguity
of the back end of the room, it's okay to
do so, and they weren't afraid to end up with
six last year at some point. I don't think they're
committed to five only to start. I think it's really

(34:00):
just a matter of how comfortable they are. So for me,
if they go six, John Shavers has my five. I
think your six is a three man race between Elijah Moore,
Lebiscus Channel, and Christian Wilkerson, and I think the edge
of it is probably going even though he's more limited
in his role on the team. I think it goes
to Elijah Moore. But I'm gonna pitch it back to

(34:22):
you again. You mentioned it briefly before, but any other
thoughts back into this receiver room.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
What do you got it's so tight, Like, I just
don't know. It's I like having opinions and I like
giving my analysis and all that stuff. But I'm looking
at the back of this receiver room and I'm just going,
I don't know. It might come down to the personality
they like best in the meeting room, Like I don't

(34:46):
I don't know what's gonna be the deciding factor at
the end of this. Tyrol Shavers gives you a prototype
that you don't really have in the rest of the
receiver room, so it makes sense for him to be there.
Curtis Samuel, kJ Hammler, smaller slot guys that have battled
injuries or not Curtis Samuel rather sorry, I mean kJ
Handler and.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Were thinking of why don't I brain just break? Is
there another slot guy that I'm thinking of? You talking
about Virgil? No, because Virgil's not here anymore.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
No, that's that's everyone. I'm getting confused. The prototypes all
just blend together. But kJ Handler and Curtis Samuel. That
feels redundant. So I don't think that Handler's gonna necessarily
make it so Chinault maybe just because he gives you
something different in terms of the physicality, in terms of
the you know, after the catch or on handoffs or

(35:38):
on special teams, just kind of a little bit more
versatility in his bag. Maybe he gets the final nod
just because it's something different. But I'm not confident, you know,
at all about the back end of the spide receiver
room in terms of which way they're going to go.
If they carry six.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, it's anyone's guesses that they go five or six.
I'm gonna say six to start, and I'm gonna say
it's More, and I'm gonna say it's Shavers. I think
Shavers finally gets a shot. I think with Elijah Moore,
even if you think he's more limited than to know
as far as what he can bring to the team overwall.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Oh, Elijah Moore, that's the name that I was missing.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Just not even from like receiving, but also the fact
that Chanel can return. I just think again, it's skill
set in your wide receiver room. And I think that
More brings something that they desperately needed. And I think
if you want to talk about well, Josh Palmer is
the primary separator, Skier can do it across the field,
but you want someone who could probably do it upfield too.
I think more can do that, so I'd be comfortable
with him taking the six. It's disappointing that he hasn't

(36:36):
had like a more lowed training camp, but I think
they're really willing to stick with him. Maybe they're not,
but I would say so just for the contract that
gave him, waiting till post draft to bring him on.
And again just like experience in the league, being a
younger player still and someone that we've seen Josh Allen
at the least make attempts to target and at times
he's been able to get open. If you look back

(36:56):
at games, he's not a lost cause. I was just
hoping for more. But again, like it's all about your
expectations of what Elijah Moore was going to be in
this receiving corps this year, and to me, I always
kept him tempered and modest as much as I thought
he was a four raiser and he still can be.
If they keep six, and if they keep five, I
still think it's shavers and I'd be very happy for
him because he's more than earned it. He's paid his dues,

(37:18):
he's he's a guy that I think, in all the
opportunities he's been given, has shown something to differing degrees,
but has shown you something. Even last year in the
regular season blow out against the Jets, he took a
screen to the house, Like, give the guy a shot,
just let him get his ses and I'd be very
happy with it.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Longest receiving touchdown on the season last year by a
wide receiver, hilarious.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
And it's that literal only reception, his only.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
One sixty nine yards nice house call.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Just the was only some year or was maybe it
was either his only target or he was targeted twice,
I can't remember. But only reception, sixty nine yard touchdown.
Nice and I hope he makes it al right the
wide receiver room. I'm very interested to hear what people
have to say. By the way, so like this show
is going to be posted after the fact, like this

(38:07):
is a pre recorded discussion. So that's really what I
want people to hammer home in the comments if they can,
like that to me, is something I want to hear
because I feel like that'll be a divided answer. But
maybe not. Maybe everyone thinks it's six, Maybe everyone thinks
it's five, and I'm the odd man out. I really
don't care, because at the end of the day, we'll
find out on Wednesday. But I am excited to hear
what people say. When I say I don't care, I
mean I don't care if I'm wrong because I'm always

(38:28):
open to being wrong because it meant something cool happened.
Maybe I don't know. Moving on to tight end, maybe
dal Kinkaid, Dawson, Knox Jackson, Hawes and Regie Gilliam. Zach Davidson,
I just don't think makes the roster. I don't think
he's had very good preseason. And again I think they
brought in Hawes for a reason, and that's to be
their primary blocking tight end, their inline guy. Like I know,

(38:48):
kill Dozer, I love kill Dozer. I love that. Like
when we saw you know, Kincaid go down and knocks
go down for some time and they needed tight ends
with the ones that it was Hawes and david But
I was like, damn, dude, Like I know it's because
of injury. I know it wouldn't have happened otherwise. But
I love seeing an early establishment with Allen in Hawes
in case you want to use him at times, and

(39:10):
they probably can. Eric and Ann have talked about how
like within short yardage he could be very effective, and
I think he would be, but his blocking is just
it's winning him the job. Like Quinn Morris when they
had him, he was their blocking guy. They're going to
run a ton of sets where they have Haws and
Gilliam on the field together and it's going to be
a lot of fun. He's got that spot, and I
think it's four tight ends. And I don't really think

(39:31):
anyone on the bubble. If you talk about most approved,
it's Zach Davidson. Like Zach Davidson to me has the
most to proved because he has one game to basically
say hey wait, I'm still here, and I could be
effective too. But again, like Haws is the superior blocker,
and even if he's not the superior receiver, Well and
Kayda Knox are going to get primary snaps and they're
going to get a brunt of those receptions. So I

(39:52):
don't really think it matters for him. I don't dislike
Zach Davidson, like I was excited when he was active
last year and I was rooting for him to do more.
But I just think given how they've can instructed it
and what the identity of their offense is Haws just
fits the Bill Moore, So it's Davidson with the most
approve But I think at the most it's probably gonna
wind up barring injury knock on wood being David said,
Brad the squad and Hawes as your final well, unless

(40:13):
you count Gilliam your final tight end.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, call Gillium a fullback, a tight end, whatever you
want to call them.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
But this team and.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Their ability to run some really creative run concepts this
year with Gillium, Hawes and your sixth offensive lineman on
the field of Alec Anderson, is going to be absolutely mental.
This is what we talked about, like right after the
draft when they drafted Hawes, I was already concocting these

(40:43):
plays in my mind and I'm just like, oh Man,
put Anderson on one side, Hawes on the other. Have
like have Hawes like go in motion and pull and
then you have this cavalry of bulldozers around the outside
for James Cooker Ray Davis to take one forty yards
like it's going to be beautiful. I've been pounding this

(41:06):
drum since the draft. Jackson Hawes is like the nastiest
blocking tight end I've ever seen. He is ridiculous. He
eats soles and crushes pancakes for breakfast. He is phenomenal
in that role, and it's a very specific role. But
like you said, I think he's got some chops in
the receiving game as well. It's not his calling card,

(41:28):
but I think that he can do it and he's
going to be We talked about this. I think I
made this joke back in the spring. He's going to
be that like obscure trivia fact where it was like
who caught Josh or like who is there on the
receiving end of the record breaking touchdown reception? For most
players to catch a receiving touchdown in ye, it would

(41:49):
be Jackson Hawes the eleventh guy to catch a touchdown
or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I love this tight end room.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Barring health, but Hawes to come in there as just
an absolutely road grater with a mean streak. He's gonna
be a tone center for sure, and.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
I cannot wait the power runs John.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I wish that there were fantasy points given to blocking
tight ends, Like I wish there was a system where
we could get points to draft, where you could draft
a tight end and he could earn points from his blocking.
I don't know how you'd ever measure it, but like,
oh my god, he's so much fun. It's just fun.
If you're a fan of running the ball, if you're
a fan of what doing here, I just he fits
it so well. He's someone I wanted before the draft

(42:31):
ever happened when they got him. I was live john
and that was awesome because everyone kept saying his name.
My heart like fluttered. I was like, yes, like I
will champion this man. I know I've been not had
a good track record, but again, I know what to
expect from Jackson haws and that's just beating people up,
and I think he's going to do that. But what
I really like about him again, red zone. Just red
zone power running. Whether it's a sneak with Alan, whether

(42:53):
it is a sneak with Allen, get him in line,
just get him out there and do more damage with
that guy next to Alec Anderson if you can. But also,
like I just so many things. I really like Jackson
Hawes and I think he's got the spot. I think
he doesn't really have much left to prove. I feel
for Davidson because Davidson's been in the league for a
few years and he you know, I don't think he's
a bad player, like I think he start on a

(43:15):
different team. I just think with what the Bills do
and how the room is shaken out, they got it
like this. This is their unit, and I think for
Davidson to would best suit him to play on a
different team because I think he'll have a better path
to playing time where he could show his receiving chops
there if he doesn't just wind up on the practice
squad and be a stash. But I think that would
happen before he gets poached, definitely, So we'll soon happen.
And if there's a time during the regular season where

(43:37):
Davidson comes up, so be it. I'm comfortable with that.
I like him. I just I just don't think he's
earned a starting spot. But offensive line, John this is
a murky one a bit too, just at least the
back end. I have our standards starting lineup by Alec Anderson,
and then I was torn on and keeping Chase Lunt
here or not. But I do have Ryan Vandermark and
Tyland Grabel. Rabel's gotten reps with the ones. Vandermar gotten

(44:00):
repedd on with the ones when Spencer Brown was out.
I think both those guys are needed.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
I think, so, what's that nine with sb uh vpg
on on.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
I R I think I have it as eight. Actually
it could.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, I think Dawkins, Dawkins, Edwards, McGovern, Torrance Brown, Anderson
is your six Mark Lunt, and I'm torn.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
I want to keep one because I think one, Like,
if I'm building it, I should have framed this episode
is how we want to build it. I should have
done that, But hindsight, I wish I had made it
that way because, like, I really like one. I think
the athletic side of him, especially with Aaron Cromer molding
him is awesome. I think that if you can get

(44:52):
him on the roster and keep him on the back
end where he could still work and practice and not
have the risk of being poached by a different team,
but he's probably not getting an immediate path the playing
time the better because I really think you can mold
this player into something special.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
I'd rather keep that. I'd rather keep him. I love
his athletic upside. I love, like you just said, given
him to the coaching staff there in their development with
offensive alignment has been such a proven thing. I mean,
he just feels a little bit Spencer Brownish to me.
Just that real move offensive tackle, that guy that can
get out in space. He's so good at that, and

(45:29):
I really feel like there's something there. I would love
to keep him on the roster. So if he's up
and Denmark is down, then that's eight with SVPG on.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
On ir Yeah, him being on IR A is an
r thing too, because he would absolutely be here as
our backup center apparently right because I don't think Anderson's
gonna take that spot from him right away. That would
make it nine with the IRS, and I think they
go in eight and then if it's like a short
term think for SVPG, he just comes right back slots
in and you could probably kick out someone from a

(46:04):
different positional group. But that's really where I have it
right now. I'm pleased with the offensive line. Like I
don't think there's any shake up. I would say, like
some of the death pieces, like again we mentioned one,
but other guys that are kind of competing for those
fringe spots. Whether you want to talk about Clayton, whether
you want to talk about on Garage or like some
other players that might work for the interior side, because
they I would argue that they would need deaf for

(46:24):
the interior. I just don't know who's really separated themselves
enough to warrant a starting spot right now, and I
wouldn't know if they'd want to maybe work which even
though Chase Line has built like a Bills tackle, you know,
freaking large and freakish lengthy and really not a guard profile,
you never know with Aaron Kromer if he wants to
try and convert him to something interior or multifaceted. But yeah,

(46:45):
that's where I have it right now. SVPG comes back
from an ir stint to make the room nine. I
don't think they're going to. I mean, maybe they try
to offset it, but again like one of their practice
squad interior guys, and then they go nine that way.
But yeah, that's kind of where I have it. John,
any other thoughts on this before we move on to defense,
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
What a luxury to bring back your top six offensive
lineman from last year though, and just keep that continuity
is a beautiful thing. I'm very excited to see this unit,
which was arguably the best in the NFL last year,
to see them return and keep gelling is good.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Totally agree, and I'm very confident in the room. I'm
confident in any decision they have made, especially with Aaron
Cromer at them. It's just a sound unit that they've
completely transformed for over the past couple of years and
made into a bully in the NFL that can go
toe to toe with any line. And you know, in
the playoffs last year, it's not that they were bullying
them per se, but they got their punches in on Baltimore,

(47:43):
they got their punches in on Kansas City. They can
compete with any unit, and that's a really nice luxury
to have. So I hope the Tops stay healthy. But
I even like the deaf players, like I really like
Tyland Grable, I really do. I think he has starting
potential if someone goes down. I really feel comfortable with
him in his profile as a fill in tackle if

(48:04):
you need him to. I hope that doesn't happen, but
I like, it's a good luxury to have players like
this and your death and I again cannot speak enough
praise for Cromer in the unit, But I want to
move on to defense. So the D line is where
things can get tricky for people because of the suspensions,
but I actually had an easier time with this, I
think just spoiling D line in general. So that's edge

(48:24):
Rusher's defensive tackles they're going to have for their edge
group Rousseau, Bosa, Jackson, Epineza, Solomon, and then for their
interior Oliver Sanders, Jones, Walker, and Carter. I don't really
think there's any need to provide more to those rooms.
I am, you know, a little bit weary about the

(48:45):
uncertainty of their interior defensive line, but I think that
it's so high variance because it could either really be
terrible to start for the season because of the inexperience,
or these guys catch on quickly and all of a sudden.
Sanders and Walker are providing ample depth and an extreme
boot to the point where it's actually a formidable unit.
But that's how I see it checking out. And when
it comes to having the most approved from this entire room,

(49:08):
I mean, I think that Jackson's making the roster, but
I would like to see him continue his nice preseason.
I don't think Apaneza, Russell or Bosa have to do anything.
I think Solomon has had an exceptional preseason, and I
have no reason to believe they would he would befringe anything.
I think he has a roster spot and he's going
to get a lot.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I'm so excited this year. I'm so excited about him. Like, yeah,
last year when they drafted him, it was like, okay,
you're going small, like that is a small edge. But
his metrics in terms of pass rushing college and just
his ability to get to the quarterback were phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Tier.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, absolutely unreal production. And to see that translate, he
got He got a few reps in the regular season.
End of the regular season last year made him count,
got a sack and one of those blowout wins I
can't remember who was against. And then yeah, looking good
throughout camp and preseason this year. I love him as
a depth, rotating, just passing down speed edge. He's a

(50:04):
guy that you can put in in third and long
situations and be like, hey, pin your ears back and
go and watch him get to the quarterback.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
He's just a nice, nice rotating weapon to have out
there at a edge.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
I leve it. I can't wait. I can't wait to
watch him in more action. And I think the fact
that it hasn't just been his pass rush, but his
run defense has developed too. He's making plenty of case
to get a lot of work, and I feel so
good about him at the back end of this room,
like I really do. And again true third and long.
Let him rip. Just let him rip for whatever reason

(50:36):
you need to. If it's because Russeau has to come
out to catch up breath, if you feel like Bosa
needs to be on a staff count to start, if
you're worried about durability, if you don't think Landon Jackson
would give you the same effectiveness right away, which I
feel like that would be the case, Let's Solomon rip.
I'm so happy for him, and I hope he keeps
it going. He's a really fun player. What can you want?
A fun player?

Speaker 1 (50:55):
And you want a race car package of Jaman Solomon,
d Walker, Greg Rousseau and aj Epanessa.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
You do that. You want to go with the freaks,
You want to go with the length, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Just give me a freak race car package. Deon Walker,
line them up in like a you know, a one
shade on the inside on a third, third and a million,
and just have everyone just pin and go I'd be
great and walkah. Wait, there's so many We talked about
this too after the draft. The versatility on this defensive
line now, the ways that they can mix and match,

(51:32):
the ways that they can move people into different positional
alignments and plug and play different pieces. They're really looking
at this like, Okay, we need to just have eight
to ten guys that can go out there and rotate
and move around and line up in different places and
just be disruptive and be fast.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, they're kind of taking a little.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Bit of the Philadelphia Eagles playbook a little bit in
terms of how Philly has had these just waves of
defense alignment coming in.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
I loved the attack in the draft. We talked about
it after the draft. Loved the approach, loved the attack
to it. And so far, all those guys that they
drafted this year, I've had good camps. They've all been like, hey, cool,
Sanders has popped, Walker has had some pop plays, Jackson
has had some pop plays. It's like cool, everyone's showing
up to the table and that's really really great to see.

(52:22):
So I feel good about this defensive front. It's a
little bit weird, it's you know, you might lack a
little bit in the interior, like you mentioned with like
needing a true one tee, like a true clogger in
the middle. I still wish we had that prototype. Still
wish we got a Derek Harmon or Kenneth Grant type
guy to deploy in the inside. Yeah, Tyler Williams, like,

(52:43):
I still wish that that had happened. Maybe that's the
approach next year.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
I don't know. I've got NFL Draft.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
On the mind year round, guys. I've already been messing
with my twenty twenty six spreadsheets. So I love the
draft is never too soon? Yeah, but yeah, I all
in all, I I love the versatility and the ability
to get to the quarterback in this defensive front definitely.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
And I will say this, like, there have definitely been
lows for the highs for both of the rookie interior
linement and Land and Jackson. But I'm okay with that
because that's kind of what I expected to start. And
if you're seeing those highs, those highs come in like
significant moments and they're powerful. It's not just like like, yeah,

(53:26):
there's like the more modest quality run defense rep which
you have seen from them where they're able to kind
of shed their block and create disruption and displacement. It's
more like there's also really fun pass rush reps where
if the offense, specifically any offense that wants to attack
the Bills with quick timing can't they're going to destroy

(53:47):
that quarterback and destroy that offensive line on plays. And
I think that variance is something I expect, so I'm
more comfortable with it. I'm not, you know, oblivious to
the lows for these players, but I think buying in
do like what the havoc and what the variants will
look like when it's good, is a lot of fun
and it will lead to some very advantageous moments for

(54:08):
the Bills when it comes to time of possession, when
it comes to stalling out drives like that that will
help them, and that's what they predicate themselves on. I mean,
I've just made my peace with the fact that run
defense to them, it's not an afterthought, it's not something
they don't care about. But they're just they're set in
their ways. They're gonna live by the sword and die
by the sword. And it's going to piss you off,
It's going to piss me off. But that's just what

(54:30):
they want to do. But they have the bodies to
execute that philosophy, and if they do it well, it works.
Like we talk a lot about, oh the turnover luck,
and turnover luck isn't sustainable, and my argument is, I
don't think it's like, yes, it's turnover luck. I also
think they're consistently generating it because of how much variance
they play, with how much havoc they create. You force

(54:50):
quarterbacks and offenses into these situations where you're constantly coming
for their throat, even if it leads to you getting
punched in the mouth because you left some vacated space,
leads to an explosive to play, which sucks that very
same drive. They can get right in the backfield and
set you back ten yards or make you press and
your throw is off time, and all of a sudden
it's a turnover or a pick or a tip pass

(55:12):
or something along those lines. And that the biggest thing
for me, I'm totally separate tangent right now, is they
are getting their hands up a lot. Yeah, I am
really really excited for that fact, especially with a guy
like Dion Walker, because like, if you have that one spot,
you can't see you. I don't know how a quarterback

(55:32):
is able to lift the ball over his hands, like
if they're consistently trying to get it up and he's
in whatever lane he can be in to get in
your face and just prevent that and prevent your vision.
Oh man, Like I'm really I'm getting excited about it.
But again I'm realistic and all this to say because
I got way off topic. This is a fun episode. John,

(55:53):
I'm like almost sweating right now.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
It's because we're almost back, man, We're we're right here. Yeah,
cutdown means the preseason's.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Over, Like we're right there.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
I'm like, okay, real football.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Season, even football is Yeah, a couple of weeks from now,
I'm be doing a Raven's preview episode. Like that's crazy
to think about. But all I wanted to say with
the interior room before we move on to linebackers is
the one with the most approved to me is Dwayne Carter. Again,
I think he makes the roster, but he is the
one that seems to be, as you kind of alluded to,

(56:30):
the odd man out and it sucks, like and I've
talked about this on the show multiple times in the offseason,
I love Duanne Carter, I love the person he is.
Seems like a genuinely great dude. I root for great people.
But I just feel like there's more we could see
from him. It wasn't a good rookie year. Injury had
a part in that, but also just individual play. I'm
not confident in him manning that one tech spot or

(56:53):
that nose tackle spot immediately. I just don't think in
the NFL, given what we've seen, that's where he would thrive.
I think he would thrive better as a pure, devoted three.
I don't think the Bills have anyone to take his slack,
and therefore he has to play that role. Right now,
I'm hoping I could see something from him, just more
of a solid anchor, not getting pushed off, not being

(57:16):
the reason that something can be, like like a run
can flow through you. I want to see him show
a bit more poise in that position, even if it
is just a preseason game. I feel like that would
just help everybody, you know, coaching confidence, his confidence going
into the regular season where he is going to be
asked to do that, and in Week one against a
really powerful team, a team that can run the shit

(57:39):
out of the ball run on anyone's face outside through
the middle with one of the best running backs in
NFL history in the backfield. In my opinion, you're talking
about a team that's going to test you immediately, and
it needs to be a game this upcoming Saturday where
you walk away and you say, all right, we can
work with this. This is giving using. It hasn't all

(58:01):
been bad, but when you're talking about this room and
the uncertainty, I want to see more from him. I
think he has the most approved to kind of confirm
that they can trust him to be a rotational one,
rotational nos and that it can be maintained throughout the season.
That's really what I have for I Do you have
any final thoughts John on the d line before we
move on?

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Yeah, Dwayne Blastoy's Carter needs to show something, man, he
really does. I hate it. I hate that he's basically
been pigeonholed into a position that is not his natural position,
and that is, in my opinion, bad planning. I don't
love that from Brandon Bean in this coaching staff of

(58:41):
basically saying, hey, we're going to draft this guy and
then we're going to make him play out of position.
I don't think they're doing him or themselves any favors
with that choice, So don't love it. I guess one
thing that I'll say is that if we are going
to have to play the Ravens this year, at least
we're going to play in Week one when yeah, the
linebackers and all and da Quon Jones are all healthy,
So yeah, at least he got that going for trend

(59:05):
to and it's early and you get him out of
the way with Carter two. It was like when they
drafted him, I thought he there was a chance he
could actually mold into that Daiquan Jones successor. I just
feel like that we didn't really see anything in his
rookie season to have true confidence that he could right away.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Maybe it can happen. I'm not rolling it out entirely,
but I need to see something to prove that they're
giving him a shot. I think though, given last year
and when he did have success, it really came in
that three roll and I prefer it. So that's really
where I'm coming from there. Moving on the linebacker again,
like the top flight of the room, I feel like
it's solidified. Bernard Mulano, Dorian Williams. When you get to
the back end. I think Andresen's gotten so much run

(59:42):
that I feel like he's a roster walk at this point.
It's more a matter of if do you want to
keep five, do you want to keep six? I, in
my personal opinion, think they're going to go six. I
think Shaq Thompson's made the roster. I think he has
a spot. I think veteran presence. Again. They dealt with
some injuries last year. It really showed some cracks in
their armor. I think it's necessary to have that type
of veteran who still has some juice in the tank,

(01:00:04):
to be that guy that can come in, whether it's
for coverage, whether it's for run defense. I feel like
that's just a nice safety net to have. And I
kept you with Ficio too, because I feel like special
teams run, you just need the body there. If I
had to say anyone with anything to prove though, I
would have said Dail inspector. But that ship has long
since sale. Then he just couldn't stay healthy and it's unfortunate.

(01:00:25):
I don't think there's a linebacker on my radar, unless
you want to talk about while I'm blanking on the
name now Jimmy Carlo. But like I'm kind of sitting
here like I don't really think there's someone that's going
to take any spot away. And I guess if I
want to see any of these guys prove something, maybe
andreason in coverage, like, let me just see some improvement there,

(01:00:46):
let me see more discipline, get to your spot a
little bit quicker, don't take the cheese on any misdirection.
I feel like we have so much to like about
andreason that we're now finally starting to pick out the flaws.
But those falls are very present, and if you want
to feel comfortable with him, he's a middle linebacker, those
things have to improve. So I'd like to see that
if he gets any run this Saturday, and even if

(01:01:07):
he doesn't, I just want to see that improve in general.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
What do you think, John, Yeah, I agree. I feel
really good about this linebacker room. It's nice that this
this group is seemingly healthy going into the regular season,
and that to me is wonderful news because all the
reports of a healthy Matt Malano are that he is
flying around it and that is just terrific news because

(01:01:30):
especially if the secondary is going to be banged up.
These linebackers are going to have to really step up
in a big way. So yeah, I think I think
I'm good there. You think they're taking six?

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Yeah, yeah, like you think that Eddie's going to make
it because of special teams? Yeah, it's kind of well,
because of special teams. I think your primaries are Bernard Milano.
Immediate backups are do you will and Andrews and Shack
Thompson is like that. I would say they could relegate
him to a special team's role, but I think having
him on the roster just does it a backup linebacker
helps and then like yeah you officio, same reason. I

(01:02:05):
don't think he'd play middle, but I think he could
be off offer, he could be probably weak, and then
special teams, but I don't think he's really going to
get much action as like an actual on field linebacker.
I think it's really just special teams role for him. Yeah, yeah,
for sure, I agree. I think I think those are
the six that are that are probably gonna make it.
So now another annoying conversation defensive back. Now again we

(01:02:28):
open the show up with Trey White. We don't know
what a status is of right now. I don't think
anything has been reported in the time we have been live,
so I'm not going to assume that he's hurt long term.
I'm going to assume in this scenario that he's okay,
that we can expect him for week one, And with
that being said, I think if that's the case, he's
cornerback too. I think he's earned it. I think it's

(01:02:50):
kind of the worst kept secret in the world that
he has it. He's been everything you've wanted from him
and for this room, which is why it would really
suck if he is hurt. I feel very comfortable with
him as your immediate CV two and obviously CEB one
being Benford. I think that's a really good tandem. I
think it allows you the opportunity for Max Harriston to
heal up. And I will say this as I said earlier,

(01:03:11):
I don't think Harriston starts the regular season healthy. I
think he's going to be on the IR. I think
probably four games to get right, to get fully healed,
and then come back in October when you're ready to roll,
and we see what we can do when we ramp
you up. Maybe a game day inactive in there. Just
that they don't feel like he's ready, which like people
are going to freak the hell out. I don't think

(01:03:31):
that's the case. I think he's just someone that they
want one hundred percent because he's a huge investment and
after the Kyir Elam debacle, they don't want to get
that wrong again. I don't blame them. Take your time,
there's no rush if Trey White is healthy. If he's not,
it forces your hand a little bit, and it unfortunately,
assuming Trey would be out for like four to six weeks,

(01:03:52):
but now much later in the in the off season,
I think it forces you to try and ram Harriston
up a little sooner. I don't think it necessarily means
he wouldn't go in the IR. I still think he would,
but I think that when he's off it, it's not
going to take very long for them to get him in,
and that could lead to some more ugly reps from him,
which sucks. I hope that's not the case. But besides them,

(01:04:16):
the back end of the corner room, I mean, there
are a few candidates that we have to discuss, guys
like Dan Jackson, JaMarcus Ingram, and Brandon Codrington, who I
haven't mentioned in this episode, but Brandon Codrington being their
primary returner means that he would have to occupy a
spot in this room, and since you only have so
many spots in corner, there's an odd man out. So

(01:04:38):
I guess, John, to you, who do you think that
would be? And who do you think has the most
approved to solidify their spot on the starting roles activism
saying active not starting. I don't know why I do that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
This is almost as messy as the wide receiver room,
if not mess here, and it's because of the injury
and we don't know what's going on. But say that
Trey White is is hurt, then we're in a real
tough situation. Christian Benford as your CB one, Toron Johnson
in your nickel, your CB two position if Harrison is

(01:05:15):
not available. So we're talking like the first few weeks
of the season without White or Harriston is basically what
we're the situation that we're.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
We're currently trying to handle.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
I guess it's probably JaMarcus Ingram that gets the nod there.
And I think if White and Harrison are both out,
you have to keep him obviously, and I think you
got to keep Dan Jackson too, and Brandon Codrington because
of what he brings to the special teams, Like, I
think you need all those bodies unless you're looking at

(01:05:48):
Jordan Hancock as someone that can do both. And that's
the only thing for me because he is so versatile
in that defensive back room that maybe they go, we
like what you've seen from you. We think that you
have positional flexibility, which matters to us in the secondary,
especially with all the injuries, with all the questionable play
at safety, with all that stuff. So Jordan Hancock makes

(01:06:10):
the team over Dan Jackson, Like, that's one situation that
I could potentially see just because of the difference in
roles that he can fill. Right now, safety is such
a like alarm bells going off situation for this team
that I think they're looking at Jordan Hancock and going,

(01:06:32):
we got to keep you around for a break glass
in case of emergency situation at safety. If the wheels
just fall off and Bishop has no confidence and he's
getting torched, then you need Hancock up as you're three
behind Wrap and Hamblin. So I wonder if they're looking
at this going we we like the versatility, the tenacity,

(01:06:56):
the experience that Hancock has he played a lot of
football in college at Ohio State, a lot of starts.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
And a lot this preseason, a.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Lot this preseason, and if they're going, okay, it's him
over Dane Jackson. I don't know, I'm and that's if
White and Harrison are both unable to go, and then
maybe it changes if and when, you know one of
them comes back. But I'm just thinking that week one
fifty three man roster in terms of what it could
look like, is tricky. I think there's a lot of

(01:07:30):
questions about how you go about this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
The secondary absolutely, I mean I'm umping dbs together now,
But I think Jordan Hancock is going to make the roster.
I would say if he's and can play, then what
he has to prove is that just again more disciplined,
especially in past coverage. But I think the run defense
component has looked really good from him. There have been
some flashes and I think there's a lot to work
with there and I think he's earned himself a roster spot.

(01:07:53):
I'm a big fan of the pick, and I think
the thing with dragting versatile players is it's not what
that you want to have to use them in these scenes.
But it's good that you can. Like when I say that,
I mean, like you get a versatile player who's okay
at a lot of things but not amazing at one, then
it's like cool. But if we have them playing, then
they're just okay. They're going to have bad plays, they're
going to give something up and it's not going to

(01:08:13):
look great. But also too, I think that if you
can kind of get them into the NFL level, take
advantage of their skill set and put them in a
role that you think they're going to be at their best,
and they actually end up giving you a return on that,
then it's nice that you can have that and then
fall back on the opportunity to move them if you
need to. Even if it's not going to be as good,
it's still better than going and getting someone off the
street who doesn't know your scheme and might really struggle,

(01:08:36):
or someone who simply is too long in the tooth,
too old, can't keep up the same way and gets burned.
Like I would rather have someone that knows the scheme
comes in and even if they're not, you know, the
best at that position, they could still give you like
a higher four than I would argue anyone outside or
someone with the worst skill set. So I really like Hancock,
and for this exact scenario, cam Lewis, in my opinion,

(01:08:57):
makes the roster. And even though I have slotted here
is a safety. He has nickel corner ability and I
think outside corner experience in the past, granted probably not
the best, it's an option. So I take them with Deamorrow, Hamlin,
Cole Bishop Taylor Rap. I think that's your safety room. Again.
Hancock and Camelis are freelance DB's, but they have been
using Hancock primarily at safety, same with Lewis because of

(01:09:20):
the situation they're dealing with. But just going back to
this corner room, like Benford White. If White can't go,
you already have Harriston, I think on IR, and I
think maybe Trey White on IR if it's bad enough. Yeah, dude,
I think your CB two is one of Dane Strong
or Ingram, But also because of Coddrington. Do you keep

(01:09:42):
all of them? I don't know, And that to me
is prove it battle for all of those guys. Because
I don't trust Coddrington at all as an actual corner
I love him as a returner. I think is perfectly fine.
At that, and I want him to stay that. But
I don't like him as a corner. I just I
simply don't think he is nearly a good in coverage
as any of these other players. I think Dane Jackson

(01:10:04):
is a limited corner. I think Dan Jackson is serviceable
in zone. I don't want to see him if we're
running cover one a man coverage and he's no, I
don't want to see that. Dorian Strong, I think of
this group, has the most potential to be a very
good NFL corner. I don't know if he's ready for it,

(01:10:26):
but it might have to be a trial by fire.
And I definitely don't think he's getting cut. They've give
him him a lot of reps, yes, and he hasn't
primarily lined up with the ones, but I don't think
they took him when they did with the experience, he
has the skills that he has to just cut him
over a one year Dane Jackson signing, which I think
is much easier to part with if I had to
pick an odd man out. Even though I talked about

(01:10:47):
McDermott valuing experience and that could propel Dane to the top,
maybe they go a different direction. And it's Dane who
has the most approved and if he's not solid, then
he's gone, and they keep Dorian Strong and JaMarcus Ingram.
Maybe they really value Dane's experience and they feel that
JaMarcus Ingram is the one that has to go because
he might be the odd man out and not looking
the best. But to me, if Trey's gone a substantial

(01:11:08):
amount of time, I personally, I think I said Ingram earlier,
I feel like that's the safest play right now. I
would go with him to take that spot, just because
again it's not my ideal one, but when Hairston and
White are heard at your cbtwo room and there's so
many question marks, I think he's probably the best of

(01:11:29):
both worlds to at least be a stopgap option there
while you wait for these guys to get healthy and
eventually become a deaf piece. Again, maybe that justifies keeping
Gain around just in case. But then if you get healthy,
one of those guys gets cut. I have no idea.
I have no one position that like I wanted to
stay away from, but I can't because this is a
show about the roster, and that would be an awful

(01:11:49):
decision because it's like the most important topic conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
We could have just called it after linebacker has been like,
I guess I.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Just call that the linebackers. I don't know. I truly
don't know what the hell they're going to do if
White's out long term. This is a new problem. I
had a nice sheet here that was very thought out.
It's this has thrown me for a loop. So I'm
just gonna give you what I'm comfortable with, who I
think had the most to prove. But I don't really
know what they're gonna do with White's gone substantial amounts
of time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Any other thoughts, But I love Dorian's strong long term.
I couldn't believe that he was still available when we
got him. But again, he might have to have a
little trial by fire, like it might just have to happen.
So I my biggest concern is if White and Hairsin

(01:12:38):
are out. My biggest concern is that there's just so
much tinkering in the secondary that there's no consistency, that
they're constantly trying out different stuff instead of like, this
is what we're gonna go with, and we're gonna let
this gel at least for a few weeks. And then
bring White back into it, and that moves this person

(01:12:59):
to there. I don't want to see like week one,
you have Wrap and Hamelin at safety and let's say
JaMarcus Ingram at CB two, and then halfway through the
game they are like, this is horrible and CB two

(01:13:24):
is getting torched and we have to go a different route.
And then in week two you have a dinged up
Damar Hamlin and now you're throwing cold Bishop into the
safety place. I just I don't want to see this
like shuffling in the secondary. And my concern is that
a good chunk of the season is going to look

(01:13:46):
like that, and we're not gonna know who the starters
are until we're deep into the season, and it might
just have to be something where the secondary just has
to survive every week, Like it could be where the
defensive coaching STAF is looking at this because of a
combination of experience and injuries. Well, there's just so much

(01:14:06):
tinkering going on and trying out different people at different
different roles and different situations that it's gonna feel stressful.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Like that's that's the.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Thing to me where I'm like, I don't have good
vibes about the secondary right now, it's just it's messy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
I like the corner room again coming into the off season,
but the injuries have changed the complexion. That's unfortunate part
of football. It happens, it's bad luck. And right now,
if Trey White's gone long term, I don't feel terribly
great about it. Outside of Christian Benford and with the
safety room, I was already like I like Cold Bishop
and I want to see him as the starter, but
the injuries worried me too. If col Bishop had an

(01:14:46):
entirely healthy training camp, I feel but yeah, this is
a second year in a row. A substantial injury has
made a miss time. I still I think it's likely
to mar Hamlin gets to the one I wanted to
be Cold Biship that gets the one. I think Cold
Bishop there's a good chance for him too. But like,
I'm upset that we had to have the same problem happen,

(01:15:07):
and I feel like just injury has really muddied the
waters with the clarity of these positional groups for your
fifty three man, And I'm sitting here like I don't
know what the hell they're gonna do with CV two.
Ingram makes me feel the most comfortable. But to be
honest with you, like if they went full send and
just put Dorian Strong as the immediate CB two, let
them like like that, that to me is like put

(01:15:27):
them in the put them in the fire and just
let him rock. And maybe it actually works out better
than you thought. With safety though, we're just gonna have
to wait and see. We gotta wait and see what
it looks like. When Bishop was healthy, I thought he
played well. As the season went on, I think that
didn't go anywhere. If anything, it's enhanced by having another year,
another cycle in the offseason, granted with injury, but to

(01:15:49):
sit in the film room, to sit with Rap, to
work on your communication, to get more acclimated to the
position full time, to know that that's your spot. Pretty much,
these are question marks I have, but I think it
can work. But we just got to see. And it
sucks that what I really hope it's not serious. It's
just one question that you didn't want to have that

(01:16:11):
now you have, Like I really didn't want to see
this happen, and I really hope it's not long term.
But yeah, I think also too. One final note on
the safety room. Haven't talked about Derek Forrest. I think
when you talk about most approved, it's him. What can
you really extrapolate from his offseason? He didn't run away
with the ones. There's no real talk about him. He's

(01:16:35):
on a cheap, one year prove it contract, was kind
of a journeyman in the odd man out in Washington.
I like the idea of bringing him in. I think
he's a great athlete. I don't think he's a bad safety.
He had some really nice reps when he first came
into the league. But it seems like they had their
plan in place for how the safety room is going
to shake out with and this is just me speculating.

(01:16:57):
They had their plan in place with how the safety
room is going to shake out with room for Forrest
to come in and make some noise, make a splash,
and take it over. Doesn't look like that's happened. And
for that reason, when you have young players like Jordan Hancock,
and then you have a utility guy in Cam Lewis,
who I think plays more positions and they've trusted to
do so. I don't think there's motivation or incentive to

(01:17:19):
keep Forest here over any of these other players. People
might not like Cam Lewis's play. People might hate Tomorrow Hamlin,
but I got news for you. The coaches don't hate
Tamar Hamlin. The coaches like Damar Hamlin because the Mar
Hamlin's available. And even if he's not a great safety,
I think he's a perfectly average one. And that's a
good thing to have when you have question marks, because

(01:17:39):
at least you know what you're getting, and it's not
always pretty. He's not the greatest tackler, although he's made
some clutch tackles. He's not the greatest in coverage, although
he's made plays. He's perfectly fine. And that's the world
we're going to have to live. And if they don't
feel comfortable with Bishop, but I think Bishop could take
that spot. But I don't think Forrest is. I just
don't think Forrest is making this roster, just putting it buntly.
And I feel again, it's never or anything personal with me, John.

(01:18:01):
I don't want any players to ever take, you know,
any exception to what I say because it's not mean spirited.
It's just based off what I'm seeing. And if I'm wrong,
then that means the coaching staff trusts him. That means
he's going to get an opportunity, and good for him,
I mean, make me ecro. But I just don't see
it shaking out that way right now, given what we've seen,
given what we've heard, and how it seems they want

(01:18:21):
this room to shake out what their plan was, So
any other thoughts on DB's and secondary John before we
wrap this thing up.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Quite frankly, I don't want to talk about them or
think about them anymore. It's too stressful, it's too much. Man,
I'm not interested. I don't want to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
This was this episode has been just like a whirlwind.
I feel like I'm not buttoned up at all right now,
and it's just because this has been the most difficult
roster evaluation I've ever had. It's like it's rough, it's
so tough, and the injuries have not made it any easier.
The suspensions have not made it any easier. I miss
when it was like, hey, there's one person that might

(01:19:02):
be able to make the roster, but it's probably these
fifty three. No, It's like, man, he got like twenty
people that are all fighting for a spot, and there's
a case varying degrees of reality for cofering players, and
I hate this conversation because it's really hard, but we
had to have it. And before we wrap up Special Teams,
I mean, das Ferguson Robbins, seems like you're three check. Yeah,

(01:19:25):
I does anyone have anything to prove? Like Ray Davis,
the kicker they brought in from the Oh yeah yeah.
If Tyler Bass is healthy, he's your kicker. He Tyler
Bass had a resurgence last year. I think Tyler Bass
went through a bell curve of NFL kicking, which seems
to happen to everybody, which is start out high and
just all of a sudden tank and then you either

(01:19:47):
continue to tank or you do the thing where you
just somehow get better. And he seems to have just
somehow get better at classic capes of the yips. It's
a mental position as much as it is physical. If
you're not polished up here, you're not going to be
polished at your feet. He he bounced back, and I
don't think there's any reason to entertain moving on from
Doyward Mass and that money would also say. Now, I'm
happy for him. I hope he keeps it up this year.

(01:20:08):
And yeah, I mean unless the bills make a sudden
pivot to go get like Stonehouse who Got Caught? And
I don't believe signed anywhere. I think they're just rocking
with Robins for the year and then we just kind
of go with that and hope it works because Sam
Martin has moved on and there's really there's much else
to say. So, John, this is a hell of an episode.

(01:20:33):
I feel like I need a beer. Yeah, Do you
have anything else you want to add that we might
not have covered, might not have discussed before we sign
off for the evening.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
I don't think so. Next Wednesday We're gonna find out
a lot. And I think I'm kind of in the
camp that you said earlier. The fact that we haven't
heard anything about Trey White at this point makes me
think that it's not a super long term thing. So
I'm hopeful that he's good for week one and that
we don't have to have those hard conversations that we

(01:21:06):
were just having anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
Yeah, I'm hoping something minor. I'm hoping something very like.
It was a scare, it was a minor sprain, it
was minor. Like I just I need good news on
Trey White's injury because I entertaining the idea of him
not being your CB two when you already lost Harristin
is an unfortunate reality. And again these other corners that

(01:21:30):
they have in the room as death fine with, but
that death is gets tested when you have him in
long stretches, which you would be doing if you had it.
Go Trey White, go into the IR. So yeah, I
don't really have much else to add on, I guess
just a final thought on this roster. I keep looking
at like my roster list too, because I'm just like

(01:21:51):
making sure my counts. Right. I really think that despite
everything we have talked about to and despite the doom
and gloom that might be the undertone of this episode,
we're still a good roster. We're still a contending team.
Like we're just majoring in the minors to an extreme,
and this team has, I think, foundationally set themselves up

(01:22:15):
to be better suited in these types of situations with
the injuries and the ambiguity than others. Right. Sean McDermott
is a coach that has gotten a lot out of
dbs that probably wouldn't have gotten shine on other teams
with worse development, worst player development at those positions. So
you can at least feel like there's a baseline skill
multiplier for those coaching, for their coaching staff, for their

(01:22:37):
defense to a point where I think they can sustain
if it's only like four weeks without Trey White. It's
just not comfortable. And I don't like the idea of
long term not being your best guy. But that's any
case with any injury. For the offense, though I mean
wide receiver, obviously, we want more clarity on the bottom
of the room. They're gonna run the shit out of
the ball. They're still gonna be one of the best

(01:22:58):
rushing teams in the league, still going to run a
lot of play action this year, at least more than
what they were doing, and it's going to be successful.
And I think the top flight of their room, especially
with Keon Coleman and even though we're talking tight end
on this Dalton Kincaid, if they both take those steps forward,
you don't really got to worry as much about the
back end of your wide receiver room because your top
flight guys, your pass catchers, have developed into something that

(01:23:21):
makes the offense explosive. In addition to being a power
running team where you're not really thinking about it because
it's already good. It's quelling your worry. So there's other
opportunities for this roster to improve further, even with some
of the ambiguity we mentioned on tonight's episode. And I'm
trying to end the show on a positive note. But yeah,
injury sucks, but they're going to weather it. They'll get
through it. I still think they're going to be top

(01:23:42):
of their division. I still think they're going to contend,
and I hope it's enough this year. I hope the
pieces fall into place for them to finally get over
that hump, win the whole thing, and make this whole
episode look really funny in hindsight. But otherwise, John, I
have nothing else to add. I appreciate the hell out
of you. I will Joe, I will Joe up Jesus Christ.
I'm making puns on my own name now. I have
such a crazy ego. I gotta put up the Joe

(01:24:05):
Revola banner to say good night everybody. This is a
hell of an episode. If I was all over the place,
it's because the roster's all over the place, so I'm
just reflecting what I'm seeing on my screen. But despite
me being all over the place, I appreciate each and
every single one of you for tuning in listening. However
you caught tonight's episode. If you are feeling inclined, check
the description for your one past sign up link. Sixty

(01:24:27):
dollars a year get you access to some really cool
stuff our shirt that we partner with twenty six Shirts
to create the Premium Discord. A lot of good things
happening for our insiders on a daily basis, and we
would love it for you to become one. Just sixty
a year. It's very well worth your time. If you're
a Bills fan who just wants to talk ball with
some other great Bills fans and have access to the
content creators on our channel, please check out all the

(01:24:48):
other shows going on air eight hour on Monday night.
Anthony with Theskui's coverage on Tuesday nights normally me, but
I've been doing Thursdays because schedule reasons. Wednesday, you got
the boys in the film room. I've been producing for
them and that's been a lot of fun. You can
catch Aaron and Greg Tomsatt on the Cover One Buffalo
podcast that same night sometimes Thursdays, and catch Turf to

(01:25:09):
Tape Eric Turner, Salcapacchi are putting out really awesome, insightful
episodes that you should be checking out. It's a good
time to be on the network. It's a good time
to be talking ball, John, because we have football on
the horizon. And John, again, thank you so much. I
want to give you the opportunity to plug whatever it
is you got going on wherever. People can find you.
Any projects you want to check out. The four is yours.

(01:25:30):
My friend Take it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:30):
Away might have a project coming here shortly, so stay
tuned on that front on my socials. But just find
me on the platform formerly known as the bird app
at John Helmcamp. Catch me there talking about talking Bills,
talking a little.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
Oregon Ducks too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
Every once in a while, when it scratches my fancy,
so looking forward to connecting with all of you, and yeah,
go Bills.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
He said. When it scratches his fancy, it perpetually scratches
his fans. And I'm gonna share a little story about
how the fact that we're in the same dynasty league.
I drafted Troy Franklin, and I distinctly said because John
reached out. He's like, oh you got Franklin. I want Franklin.
I'm like, you have someone I want, you have Keith Mitchell.
I want Keth Mitchell and he goes, no way, I'm
not doing that. I'm like, all right, that's fine. Then,

(01:26:17):
like I think it was a day and a half
later you text me, yeah, I really want Troy Franklin.
I'm like, you know what I want, John, you know
what my terms are. And we made the deal. So
now he has Troy Franklin. It's go Ducks year round
for mister John helm Camp. And unfortunately, in Duck's News,
I saw Derek Harmon. I don't know if you saw
the Derek, Yeah, springy, it's just a sprain, okay. I

(01:26:37):
didn't know how severe it was.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
It just popped up Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin tilb
reporters that first round picked Derek Harmon sprained his knee
and the injury is still being evaluated. So at least
it's not a season under a right out of the Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
Okay, thank goodness, because I was gonna say, like, a
sprain knee is not great, but it's also like more
manageable and an easier recovery than a full tear. So
good because I was worried that Harmon just missed the year,
and I'm glad he wasn't because anyone who watches this
show and has followed John and myself knows we both
love Derek Harmon even if he is on the Steelers now,
I'm still rooting for the guy, so glad to see

(01:27:11):
it wasn't ending. But yes, guys, please follow John. John
is doing draft work basically year round, and you're going
to see him post a ton of clips. So if
you were trying to be versed on the upcoming class,
and why would you not want to be, we are
going to talk about it all over this network, and
you want to be the coolest person at the lunch
table and know all about Peter Woods and the Clemson
d line. Follow John because he is going to give

(01:27:32):
you a ton of insight and he is just a
great person, great creator, someone who is very well worth
your follow So check him out again, guys. This episode
was chaos, but I had a ton of fun. We'll
see how this roster shakes out. But despite all the worry,
let's have some optimism too. It's still gonna be a
fun season. Bill's Football is back very very soon, and
I cannot wait to preview that matchup. But for tonight,

(01:27:54):
I'm going to tell you all good night. Enjoy the
rest of your evening. This is probably posting during the day,
so I actually enjoy the rest of your day. Thank
you for following one and as always, go Bills. We
will see you soon. Take care of everybody.

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