Buffalo Bills Minicamp Begins! The Biggest Storylines Headed into the Summer | UR - Under Review

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Here you go, just play, We'll go under review, Citizens

(00:42):
of Earth.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Happy Tuesday evening, and thank you so much for tuning
into this week's episode of Under Review. My name is
Joe DeRosa. You can find me on bou skuy at.
Actually I have to look at it because I always
forgot to change the handle under review see one dot
bskuy dot social. One day I'm gonna get that right.
It was not tonight, But thank you all again so
much for being here. And as you have probably seen

(01:05):
if you are keeping close tabs on the team during
these war months, minichamp has begun mandatory mini camp. All
players must report, and some players that we speculated could
or could not depending on your side of the fence
for this particular topic, still ended up showing up to
Mini Caamp and we got some exciting previews of what
this team could potentially look like in training camp as

(01:25):
well as during the regular season. Some bills news that
we just desperately wanted in these drier months of the
off season. And today my guest and I are going
to go over what we feel are our three biggest
storylines in Mini Caamp leading into the summer break. What
are the narratives that we are keeping the I guess
you want to call it the largest tabs on what

(01:47):
do we feel are the most impactful stories coming out
of Mini caamp as we go further into the offseason
and eventually get to the season ramp up, where we
could say this is something that could be extremely impactful
or at the very least just something relevant or the
team in the coming months. So I say, my guest,
I say we I never just me and me. I
always got to have someone on the panel with me

(02:07):
because if I don't have to be talking to a
camera for three hours or even six in the case
of the NFL Draft. And my guest tonight is someone
that has been on the show multiple times. He's one
of my favorite people to bring on because he is
a delightful human being and also an awesome conversationalist. That
is the one the only someone who works for train
Wreck but is not a train Wreck himself. Mister Mike Bunt.

(02:28):
Mike Bunt, welcome back to the show. We were talking offline.
It has been a few weeks, but I finally got
you back. How are you doing tonight, my friend?

Speaker 3 (02:36):
I could be feeling better, but I'm always down to
be talking Bill's football and excited to be on the
show and can't wait to break down some of these
off season storylines.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yes, sir, and you know this. It's mini camp, it's
not training camp. It's not the big show yet. I
guess if we want to talk about off season news,
but it's something, and I thought it would be fun
to just have this episode because these are topics that
we can revisit once we get to the actual moments
at Saint John Fisher and also just Bill's news man.
And we got a couple of crumbs of Bill's news today,

(03:05):
including one which is that James Cook did show up
to mandatory mini camps. So while there was questions about
whether he was going to show based off the contract negotiations,
he decided, Hey, I don't want to get fined. I'm
going to be there, and then he showed up and
he even said it himself he likes his money. Much
respect to him for that. And the other news is
that the Buffalo Bill signlinebacker Shack Thompson to a one

(03:26):
year deal. The former Carolina Panther shockingly becomes a Buffalo Bill.
I guess, Mike, I'll spin it to you to just
open up the show with your thoughts first on James Cook,
and we'll go to Shack Thompson a little bit. But
obviously we don't really know what the future holds for
James Cook. So I am curious about your thoughts because
I have seen youwtweet about this topic, so I want
to bring it up. Do you think that, just given

(03:50):
the way this conversation has gone, the negotiating tactics, the
back and forth, the uncertainty, this is James Cook's final
year as a Buffalo Bill?

Speaker 3 (03:59):
What do you yeah? My head says it's most likely
his final year in Buffalo, and I'm a little disappointed
that that's probably gonna be the case, because even though
running backs are replaceable, I do believe top end running
backs brings something to the table, a skill set, trait,
whatever you want to call it, that is hard to replace.

(04:22):
And James Cook does bring that with his explosiveness, the
ability to take any touch to the house on any
given play. So I would hate to lose him. But
when you're getting negotiations on the table, we're one side
of saying fifteen million for running back, and you're not
one of those top two or three guys in the league,

(04:42):
the money gets a little bit silly, and it's really
hard for me to see both these sides finding common ground.
First of all, you already have the situation with Dalvin
Cook in Minnesota where he put up a lot of production,
more production than James has, and that ended up really
never paying off from him from a financial standpoint. So literally,
James has his brother to look at to say, yo, dude,

(05:06):
you can produce, but that's not going to get you paid.
And you look at Cook. He's right in the prime
of his career right now, mid twenties. He's coming off
a historic season. He now has two one thousand yard seasons.
He just tied a Bill single season touchdown record. So
my thought is this, the Bills value James Cook and

(05:26):
are willing to pay him, But there's two different viewpoints
on where he ranks. Cook wants to be in the
group of the top five guys in the league and
the Bills are basically saying you're in that next tier.
And the money is vastly different with those two tiers.
So unless there's gonna be some compromise on either side,
I don't think it's likely they're gonna get a deal done,

(05:49):
and the gap between Cook and someone that they could
draft in the second or third round next year isn't
really gonna be big enough to where you can warrant
paying him thirteen plus million dollars. I think you're really
maxing out at around ten to eleven million for him on
a year by year basis.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think as it
stands right now, I am confident in saying that this
is very likely James Cooks last year. Obviously, nothing is
certain and negotiations can change, and we have seen that
happen in the past, and we have had off season
conversations about players that we thought were all but certain
to leave and end up staying put Matt Malono being

(06:26):
one of the most notorious of that. And I think
with James Cook, it's not impossible that they can come
to an agreement. But I do think that the Buffalo
Bills have to be cognizant of one the running back
market and what they would dictate a fair contract for
James Cook's skill set relative to what the running back
market is. As you pointed out earlier, he wants top
flight money. He wants to be one of the if

(06:47):
not the highest paid running back in the NFL, and yes,
mid twenties running back great career numbers over the past
couple of seasons. Has become the guy in Buffalo. But
when you look at the guys that you're comparing him to,
when you about top flight money potentially for James Cook,
these guys are what I would consider shorefire free down backs.

(07:07):
There's no laps in their game, whether it comes to
the ability to be explosive, whether it comes to pass protection,
whether it comes to being able to catch out of
the backfield. I think James Cook can do two of
those three things. But what I do think is an
issue when you talk about giving him that much money,
is their concern over his pass blocking, having to take
him off the field for certain situations, especially when it

(07:29):
comes to picking up extra pressure. And then is that
enough to justify top flight money? Now, some people will
say yes, some people will say no. For me, personally,
I think what you pointed out earlier is something I
aligned with you on. I really like the player. He's
a very talented player. I would be totally happy if
they kept James Cook. I just don't think I want
to keep James Cook for twenty million a year. I

(07:51):
think James Cook, in my eyes, the furthest I was
ever willing to go if I was Brandon Bean was
like twelve million, and I just felt like that was
a fair number considering like when you watch him back
and what you think of the all round player. Even
with the production, you also have to take into account
how the Bill's scheme works, how their offensive line works,
how they block for him, and I think that they

(08:12):
also have to worry about looming contract extensions with other
vital positions like Connor McGovern at center, which, in my
personal opinion, and this is not a knock on James Cook,
I would prioritize simply because this offensive line being intact
is what led to so much rushing productivity, not just
for James Cook, but also for Ray Davis and also
for Ty Johnson. So where I say is I would

(08:33):
be happy bringing him back. I would be happy doing
it for a fair number. I think the Bills organization,
just given what we've seen this offseason and the conversation
is not really going anywhere and there're seeming to be
this like standstill on both sides, is that I don't
think Brandon Bee wants to give him top fight running
back money either. I don't think he can either, considering
all the extensions that they did make, and now you're

(08:55):
kind of at an impass where it's going to take
two to tango, and I don't think two are ever
really going to tango unless maybe the season doesn't go
as planned for James Cook. There's a regression in the
production and maybe it's injury, maybe it's usage, whatever it
may be that might lead to not only the bills
but other teams not being willing to give that money.
Or James Cook does test the market and the market

(09:16):
isn't being kind to him either to a point where
maybe he comes back because he knows the scheme and
he does take a reasonable contract. But it's hard to say,
man like, when you look at the situation right now,
it doesn't feel like one that I think has a
resolution that's anything but the two sides splitting. And that
doesn't have to be an, you know, animalistic, it doesn't
have to be a true negative. It just means that

(09:38):
they didn't come to an agreement, and they seem to
have been very aligned in the fact that this is
just business and not personal, which is why I think
It's cool that Cook still showed up today, I know,
to avoid fines, but also kind of showed up to
still be there, to still be present and say like
it's just business man like I'm gonna play. But if
we don't come to an agreement, we don't and I
move on. So any other thoughts Mike on James Cook

(09:58):
before we go to the other news of the day.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, he's being a good teammate showing up, but we're
kind of being naive if we believe he's showing up
just to be a good teammate. And that's some of
the narratives I saw from certain people today. Oh, he
cares so much about winning a super Bowl. I don't
think he really, Like, obviously he wants to win a
super Bowl. This is more about he's a running back
that made five million dollars last year, and before that

(10:20):
he was in the low millions. He just doesn't want
to give his money back because he hasn't made that
much of it in the NFL to this point, and
it's just a tough situation overall. I believe a big
reason why you're seeing him at mini camp today is
because it's kind of a sign saying we aren't that
close to getting something done, where if you knew that
something could happen, maybe you hold out in mini camp,

(10:43):
hold out beginning a training camp, and you hope that
the Bills eventually cave and give you something. By showing up,
you're basically saying we're not really at that point where
anything really is really realistic at this point. And it
is a tough thing because, like you said, you would
be willing to go up to twelve million, I'd be
willing to go up to eleven to twelve million, and
that is considerable money for a running back that's probably

(11:04):
running back five, running back six, something like that.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
I think that's around what Josh Jacobs is making right now.
I have to look at the numbers again, but like
other top flight running backs are making similar contracts.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
And he is near that level. And that's why it's
hard because you look at Saquon three down back, physicality,
speed burst everything. You look at McCaffrey, the ability to
run routes, being a legitimate pass catcher, and then Dereck
Henry He'll just run you over, he can bulldozer you
the whole game. And while James Cook has that explosiveness
he doesn't really have that second third thing that really

(11:35):
separates him from the rest of the pack. So it's
tough because I do think that James Cook plays a
bigger role in the Bills offense than what a lot
of the fans given credit for. There's a lot of
fans that will say stuff like, well, he's just a
product of the offensive line. I don't believe he's just
a product of the offensive line. Some of those touchdowns
you saw last year where him getting six yards down

(11:56):
the field and making something happen and taking the house.
You put Devin Singletary back there. The Bills probably lose
at least five touchdowns last year alone based on games
Cook did. But at the end of the day, you
have to it's all about salary cap allocation and now
we're smart enough to realize, can you replace this? Can
you replace that? And unfortunately for the Bills, in a

(12:19):
lot of scenarios, there's positions where they might have players
be willing to take discount and James Cook's situation, this
is probably the one time in his entire career that
he'll be able to really get a payday, and for him,
he sees that as something that he can't sacrifice. And
the second thing, we're just being realistic. Not everybody wants

(12:41):
to be a Buffalo Bill their entire career. James Cook
might want to play in the South, he might want
to play some more closer or family, and that could
have an impact on negotiations as well. So I don't
really have any ill will towards the Bills or James Cook.
I just hope they both go out there. He does
the best he can. Hopefully he puts up amazing stats,

(13:03):
and if it leads to the Bills winning a lot
of games, go out get your money next year wherever
that may be.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, I hold no ill will to James Coke if
he decides to go for a bag in the offseason.
He plays running back in the NFL, that is one
of the least stable markets of any position, and it's
something where I fully support a player getting every cent
they can get. It's just if it's not from the Bills.
It's not from the Bills, and I don't think it
will be because again, I just don't think when you
look at the top flight of the market, he's going

(13:30):
to make that same money from this team. I think
what would be more likely is a team with ample
caps face to spend decides to throw the bag at
him because they're like, well, it's not going to harm
us new as much. We can't afford to overpay for
the player, not even overpay, but pay top of the market.
And just looking at the market right now for average
annual value a year for contracts, Saquon Barkley leads at
twenty million twenty point six, McCaffrey at nineteen, Derrerik Henry

(13:53):
in third at fifteen, Jonathan Taylor and fourth at fourteen,
Alvin Kamara in fifth at twelve point twenty five, and
then Jacobs at twelve flats. So you ask yourself too,
if you are the Bills GM, where would you put
James Cook as far as that list of players, and
then how much money you're willing to give him? And
personally I would put him in that Kamara Jacobs category,

(14:13):
which again are still really fricking good running backs. And
this is not me trying to cast dis versions on
the player, but when you talk about the money he
wants versus what I think the Bills will realistically give him,
I just don't think it's going to be twenty million
a year. But stranger things have happened. We will have
to see. I don't want this message to be taken
away from people that we hate James Cook. It is
not the case. It is just talking about the business

(14:34):
of the NFL, what you are willing to pay, and
I think to get top fight money, you have to
be undoubtedly, undoubtedly a top fight player, unless, of course,
you are a quarterback in the NFL, where all logic
makes no sense and you could be average and make
two hundred and fifty million dollars. But besides the point,
Mike Bunt and I thought that was a good way
to start the show. The other news smaller news, but
something I still think is worth keeping a tab on

(14:56):
is kind of an inevitable signing. Shaq Thompson, former Carolina
Padther becomes a Buffalo Bill. Now, this I don't think
has anything more to do with certain I actually do
think it has something to do with a specific player,
But I think this is kind of their annual bring
in veteran linebacker and have him take the end of
the room and let's just see what happens. They've done
it pretty much every single year. Sispec Dermott's been there.

(15:18):
Do you have any strong feelings on the signing or
anything you think it would actually lead to come the
regular season.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, I mean, this would have been a nice move
five years ago. But yeah, Shack Thompson, he's had a
solid career, obviously the Carolina connection. At this point, he's
just a depth signing. You hope he comes in in
the summer, fits in with the team. Maybe he has
a little bit left in the tank. Hasn't really played
much for the last two years due to injuries, but
a good starting player throughout the majority of his career.

(15:48):
Maybe he has a chance to stick on as a
backup on the team. But I hope nobody's getting overly
excited about the move because he's not going to really
be much of an impact player unless you have injuries
in front of him, and that'd be really his only
path to really getting significant playing time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
I don't think there's really much else to say. It's
a veteran addition. I am not opposed to bringing in
Vet death. I would say that this is your again,
a guy you keep floating as like a satellite linebacker,
maybe potentially for the practice squad if you can get
him there. However, he does bring veteran experience if you
do happen to lose one of the three players Matt Malano,

(16:26):
Dorian Williams or bail in Spector, and what I would
argue is there is the possibility that if him and
Spector are both in camp, Inspector either gets hurt or
just has a poorer showing than Shack Thompson, who again
is an experienced landbacker. I think that presents you with
the opportunity to maybe cut ties with the player that
is on an expiring deal and keep the vet someone

(16:48):
that you could turn to in a rotation and say, hey,
we feel comfortable with him. He's played special team snaps,
he has the ability to play well in coverage, and
then the run comes from an experienced defense. No Sean McDermott.
These are all things that I think lend itself well
to his potential in camp this year. I don't know
how likely it is, but I do think it's something
I'll keep an eye on when camp comes around, because again,

(17:10):
they didn't really do anything at the linebacker position. I
know a lot of people thought Sean Dolac was all
but a Buffalo bill, and now he's in Los Angeles,
so that dream is dead. At least for now, and
they kept the room the same. But I also think too,
we're kind of forgetting about you know, Yuofascio, who is
a second year player who had some really fun reps
at Washington. I think deserves a little bit more buzz

(17:32):
when you talk about his role in this room. And
then Joe Andreeson, who, according to Alex Braski, was making
place today at mini camp and is someone that not
always loved by the fan base, but someone that I
think actually would have potential to be your back end linebackers.
So to me, it's really just if someone gets hurt,
here's a guy. If no one gets hurt, maybe he
replaces Spector. And as soon as I mentioned Baile Inspector, that's,

(17:53):
of course when all the comments come in about Spector's hurt, right,
And I don't think if Spector gets hurt, it's when
there is just year disdain and well not disdain, that's
not fair, but it's like that's a name you could
bring up and all of a sudden, one hundred more
people just are going to say, damn, dude, Inspectors hurt again,
and he is. So it's you know, it's unfortate man.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
You know, it's funny everybody's going to point out the
Specter injuries as if Terrell Bernard and Matt Milano aren't
hurt all the time too. It's the prototype Bills linebacker
that mcdermoin being targeted, undersize, speedy, and normally know what
that means, lack of durability when it comes to health
because you're not the proper size to take the impact

(18:36):
that you're going to base on a weekly basis in
the National Football League.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, it's it's a punishing position and the Bills have
shown you that they are willing to take maybe what
would be argued slightly undersized players to play that position.
So you get that frame hitting as hard as they do,
and while it's beneficial when it works, you are prone
to some bumps and bruises, and Spector is a player
that gets bumped and bruised a lot. I think it's
a combination of the freak see of injury and the

(19:01):
play that's been on the field. And I've defended Spector
on the show. I thought there have been games where
he actually did a really nice job billing in as
a starter. I think though last year when he got
more reps and teams new to attack that spot of
the field. You saw him get kind of thwarted a bit,
like they just bullied him. And of course the health
issues that is going to lead to this opinion of him.
And honestly, man, I don't think he comes back after

(19:24):
this season, whether it's in camp, whether he goes through
the regular season. I do think that Shaq Thompson is
a nice piece to keep around because again, if you
go in that direction, you're getting his bills. Fan pointed here,
like a veteran, someone that knows your defense and someone
that has had like a lot of I almost said
great success, but I didn't want to get Borat quoted.
But like as I had success in the NFL. So

(19:45):
it's interesting. We'll see what happens. But Mike, I want
to move on to the actual kind of nitty gritty
of this episode, and that is our three storylines. And really, again,
this could be anything. What I told Mike offline was
that we are going to do three. We don't know
what each other's are. He'll read his, then I'll read mine.
Just whatever. We felt like things were worth keeping an
eye on. Again, things that you take into the summer

(20:08):
before you get to training camp and just say this
is something that I really want to watch out for
or something that I think based off Mini Camp makes
me more excited to see or more interested to say. So, Mike,
back to you, number three, what is your third biggest
storyline of Mini camp as we head in to the
rest of the summer.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
So I don't really have one, two, three in terms
of importance, so I'll just basically say what my three are.
I'll start with one of the three. I think this
wide receiver battle, at least the depth part of it,
is fascinating to me because what I hear fans saying

(20:47):
what I think are completely different scenarios right now, and
what interests me beyond just who ends up three, four
or five make it the team getting cut is I
believe a lot of the Bills framing of an offense
last year as a run team, a team that focus

(21:09):
heavily in the run game was not only because they
saw what happened two seasons ago when Diggs wasn't successful
down the stretch, but I think they also realized we
don't have a good enough receiver room to really be
very good as a pass heavy team. We don't have
matchup advantages. We have slow outside guys that are not

(21:30):
going to really win a lot of one on one battles.
We have to beat teams with the run. Insert Josh Palmer,
Elijah Moore. Now you got a little bit more variables
in your receiver room. One. I want to see how
this receiver battle goes down. Two, I want to see
are the Bills gonna go a little bit more to

(21:51):
a pass happy offense. Again, I'm not saying going back
to the Brian Dable days, but I Josh Allen was
under what thirty eight hundred yards passing last year, I'm
fully expecting him to go back over four thousand yards passing.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
This Year's a fun take, Honestly, I think that a
big part of their reliance on their rushing attack was
their concerns over how consistently they could get plays off
against good man coverage teams. And you know, there were
a lot of times or once they faced more potent secondaries,
even in the playoffs, they did have to pivot to

(22:25):
just more power running. But it ended up working because
they seem to have been able to do that against
really any team if they were just able to concentrate
later in the year. I think that now with this
wide receiver room, which I do also have on my list,
I am very interested to watch the back end of it.
But also again those two players who alluded to specifically
in Palmer and more. Now with Josh Palmer, you know

(22:46):
we've talked about him on the show before. It's obvious
why they brought him in. He has the man beater
skill set. He creates separation down the field across the field,
and it's something that this Bills offense can greatly benefit from.
But Elijah Moore is the one that I'm really watching now.
A lot of people could see that signing after the
draft and kind of call it a throwaway or just
like he's wide receiver five, he's not going to really

(23:06):
bring much impact. I argue that there is going to
be a lot of impact from the signing. So much so,
and I'm not saying twelve hundred yards. I'm not saying
Stefan Digg's receiving title season, i am not saying anything insane,
but I am talking about like a potent five to
seven hundred yards from Elijah Moore. I'm talking about a
productive separator that can work out of the slot. But

(23:27):
also align as a boundary wide receiver, whether you want
to have him as your zee on a play and
get him up the field, and someone that has proven
he can do so and when competent quarterback play is
behind him, actually be a productive receiver. He is someone
that I know this argument has been made for a
lot of players who just never really do much in
the NFL, but I actually buy stocked in the idea
that Elijah Moore has consistently been in subpar or average

(23:50):
quarterback situations and that having a player of his skill set,
a youthful player I believe he's only twenty five years old,
someone that has separation ability, route running per speed to
boot is someone that I think Josh Allen one would
love to throw to because he has had a receiver
like that. Again not comparing him to Stefan Diggs, but
he has had a skill set of separation by route

(24:12):
running tactics in step on Diggs. Elijah Moore is someone
who could benefit this offense in the same way with
that same skill set, and I think that Josh Allen
in turn would thrive off that and feel comfortable throwing
to him. And there have been reps in practice today
that I feel he was very connected with him and
looked really good and really explosive after the catch. So

(24:32):
I'm really like in alignment with you that this wide
receiver room is going to be one to watch, but
really more so for that back end of the room
where if Elijah Moore does wind up being your wide
receiver five to come into the year, which I won't
say as a lock, but I think has a very
high likelihood, I want to see what the role for
him looks like. Do they use him simply as a
wide out going upfield, or do they take advantage of

(24:54):
the skill set and line him up in the slot,
use him emotion get creative with Elijah Moore, because I
think there's a lot to like about this player still
who really came into the league super young, and I
think has his best football still ahead of him, still
maturing as a player, but again playing with inarguably the
best quarterback he has played with his entire career, and

(25:14):
I think that's it does make me really excited as
I punch my microphone up, It does make me really
excited going into the summer getting ready for training camp,
because assuming we keep seeing this connection happen in Mini Camp.
I think it's reasonable for Bills fans to be very
optimistic about the player they just signed for really no
money at all, or just even like slightly lump sum

(25:36):
if you want to talk about the incentives a player
that can have a lot of benefit, and like you
saw it last year, I see someone brought up Mac
Collins in the comments, like mc collins was that off
the street signing, that that men signing that came in
and had a huge impact on this offense. Like I
won't undervalue what Mac Collins did as a blocker, as
a receiver, as a presence that could be Elijah Moore

(25:57):
this year, and I think it's fair to be excited
for the I think it's fair to kind of keep
him on your radar in Mini camp and training camp.
And I think it's why I have, you know, receivers
as something that I am calling a huge storyline for
multiple reasons. And Mike, there's one more part of this
that I want to bring up to but it's Keon Coleman,
and I think it's it's you know, obvious, but Keon
Coleman's potential development and whether he has good or bad

(26:20):
showings at Mini Camp. We already know that he had
a couple catches last week and that he had a
drop that kind of got highlighted. But I want to
see consistency from him. I want to see if he
continues to separate against these and again, it's you know,
paddless drills. It's going to be pretty easy for a
receiver because it's usually disadvantageous for a quarter in general.
But if Keon Coleman flashes too, then I think it's
fair for fans to be optimistic going into training camp

(26:42):
about him too. I mean, what do you think about Coleman? Like,
what are your what do you at the very least
like your opinion of him?

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Right now? I have a few thoughts. I want to
just respond to your more point and then I'll get
to Coleman quick. I'm excited about More, but I feel
like the expectations have gotten so high and more that
it's in sevitable that his performance is going to be
a letdown to most of the fan base this year.
And the reason being everybody keeps bringing up the quarterbacks
he played with in the past, and everybody talks about

(27:11):
how he had sixty receptions basically the last two years
we have a couple problems when we say stuff like that.
First of all, he was on the Jets for two years.
He was a second round pick and a team that
had literally no passing game elected to move on from him.
They're not just moving on from him because he's not
putting up stats. They're seeing the film, other teams are
evaluating him. And yet the best he could end up

(27:35):
with was the Browns. He goes to Cleveland, he's the
number two receiver there, he ends up with sixty one receptions. Now, people,
a lot of Bills fans are down on Keenan Coleman
after his rookie year. Kean Coleman played four less games
than Elijah Moore, had something like thirty two fewer receptions,
yet ended up with eighteen more yards and I believe

(27:58):
a couple more touchdowns. The player that fans think they're
getting out of more is not the player that he
has been utilized, at least recently in his career. More
average eight point something yards per reception last year. That's
a small, small number. He was under ten the year
before in Cleveland. This is not a guy that's been
going downfield. This is not a guy that has been

(28:19):
getting involved in big vertical plays. You're talking about a
guy that's put up less production than Keon Coleman and
Gave Davis. And the fact of it is the Browns
could have resigned him, but they did it. And yes,
I know that he chose Buffalo for a little bit
less money than the Browns. But if this was a
guy that other NFL teams valued and saw things on tape,

(28:43):
he wouldn't have waited until after the draft has signed somewhere.
If you look in recent years, is the Bills signed
Deontay Hardy for four million dollars, They signed Kurtis Samuel
for eight million dollars. They just signed Eliza More for
up to five million dollars. If you look at where
the money is allotted and what skills that Elijah Moore
brings to the table, and you throw the stats aside

(29:04):
from recent years, Elijah Moore is most likely competing with
Curtis Samuel for a spot on this team, in a
role on this team, And I'm excited. I think Elijah
Moore could be a thirty forty catch guy that could
be five hundred to seven hundred yards on the Bills.
But a lot of the narratives I've been hearing is
that behind khalilseak here, he's the top receiver on the Bills,

(29:26):
and that's not the case. It goes Khalil sekre then
it could be Josh Palmer slash Kean Coleman, and then
it's Elijah Moore or Curtis Samuel. And I'm excited about
Elijah Moore. Like I said, I think his quickness will
be much needed for this Bill's offense. I think that's
going to play a huge role. Josh Allen's gonna love it.

(29:49):
But I do want people to taper their expectations a
little bit with him because I feel like that'd be
a little bit unfair. This guy's not going to go
for seventy four thousand this year.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
I don't think a grand for sure.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
And then the second thing, the Keon Coleman part, I
think Coleman's getting a little bit of some of it fair,
some of it unfair criticism based on how his rookie
year happened. Up until his injury, Keon Coleman was on
pace for a great rookie year and he ended up

(30:20):
the season with around twenty nine catches for mid five hundreds,
and he had nineteen point two yards per catch. That's amazing.
That's honestly an unbelievable number. And for especially for a
guy that's not a separator. And what does what does
that say about Keon Coleman. One of his touchdowns went
forty plus yards against Seattle was a curl, yet he
made a guy miss and took it to the house.

(30:43):
He had another big plan of slant. Keon Coleman is
never going to be a separator down the field, and
I think for a lot of fans that means he's
not good. We knew Keon Coleman wasn't a separator coming
out of Florida State. He is a big bodied receiver
that has two premium skill sets. One the ability to

(31:04):
go up in the air and catch anything throw in
his direction. Not saying he's gonna catch everything in his way,
but has the ability to. And then number two, you're
talking about a guy that, despite being of four to
six forty was a punk returner at times in college.
How do you end up being a punp returner when
you're considered slow. It's because he's an athlete. He's a

(31:26):
basketball player. He might not have that straight line forty speed,
but he's elusive, he's big, he's strong, he has the
ability to break tackles. I think we sometimes spend so
much time talking about how the Bills lack of number
one receiver that we forget if you just look at
this unit, Khalil Sekir, Josh Palmer, Kean Coleman, Elijah Moore,

(31:49):
maybe Curtis Samuel, that's a pretty good group of guys
that have contributed and have the ability to really give
Josh Allen a variety of skill sets. Manufactor in Dalton
Kincaid and the Bills running backs in the past game.
The Bills actually have six players that have had sixty
plus receptions in the NFL season before. How many people

(32:10):
realize that. So, I know that's a generic stat but
I think if you look at it from an everyone
eats mentality, the Bills have enough differences between their guys
and Keon Palmer, Khalil Sekir, Elijah Moore. They all slot
in as guys that can be forty five plus catch

(32:33):
guys and all contribute in their own ways.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, you're right, and I think that the way they've
built this room. I know people are mad that they
didn't get the top flight a week guy by reaching
up for one in the draft, which they should have
never done. I think that they built the room well,
at least again raising the floor of the room. I
like the way that there is a myriad of skill
sets for Josh Allen to have, whether you want to
talk about more power style receivers who can go up
and get it in Keyon Coleman separating guys and Josh Palmer,

(32:58):
Elijah Moore or justly shifty slot, but can line up
at the wide spot as well in Samuel and Shakir.
It's a room that is capable of getting open, capable
of extending drives downfield separation. We would have to see
because it's unproven with their new additions, but it is possible.
But I think it is a sustainable group of guys

(33:18):
that really have different ways of getting open that can
be productive, and I think that's a reason to be optimistic.
I think as far as Coleman goes, he's a young
project player. So even with having criticism of him in
his rookie year, I also took into account his injury
and the fact that he was so young and so
unrefined that it is going to take some time for Coleman,
and I do think we have to realize how much
work goes into this type of player and what it

(33:41):
could end up looking like if the development curve pans out.
But that's a big if because it's a huge undertaking.
But they've been able to make projects work before. In
the case of Keyon Coleman, there's so much to like
about the player as far as what he brings to
the table with his athleticism, that I am willing to
ride it out and see what it looks like from
year two to year three, and if I any progress
going in the right direction, then it just enhances the

(34:03):
hype more because to me, that's just telling you, like, yeah,
he's starting to get it. It's it's happening. You've got
to give him some time and really get him work.
With the Elijah Moore conversation again, No, I don't think
he's gonna have twelve hundred yards, but I think it's
okay to be And I'm not saying you're not saying
it's okay to be excited as much as it's I
looked at the advanced mats from PFF, so when you
look at last year, he had eight hundred ninety seven

(34:25):
total snaps. Four hundred and ninety of them were out
of the slot, three hundred and ninety five of them
were out wide. So I think that would give you
some reasoning for the at least average yards per target
at being at a red would you say eight point seven, So.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Like eight point it was low eights last lows. It
was low ninety the year before, right.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
And he was primarily a slot guy. I was a
slack guy coming out of college. I think where it
kind of stands for me is I still hang my
hat on the fact that I think his skill set
was one needed for the room, but also something that
can be valuable for guys like Coleman, guys like Shakir
because if you do have him line out wide, I
think he can win against man coverage. I think he

(35:05):
can generate separation. I do think he does give you
a downfield threat. I think in the case of Cleveland
last year, having sixty one receptions with again the stretch
run of like a decaying to Shaun Watson and Jameis
Winston and the Pandora's box being open, and just the
uncertainty that surrounded that quarterback position, I think there is

(35:25):
something to be said, as far as the Jets point,
it seemed more and more generated. And if you want
to have a knock, I think the knock would be
more so that I keep saying more like unintentionally when
I say his last name too. I don't mean to
do that, but it just keeps coming up in the sentence,
Like if you want to say you're worried about, well,
if he's not getting the target chair, is he gonna
like give it his all on every play? Is he
gonna take plays off? Like that would be a thing

(35:46):
I'd have some level of concern for. But the profile, again,
this is me being optimistic for him as like wide
receiver four slash five, not wide receiver one. But I
also don't think wide receiver one exists in the Bills
offense right now.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
It's also important to point out, and this is why
I don't love the quarterback conversation of who were his
quarterbacks in the past. If you're a number two receiver
in Cleveland and you have Joe Flacco when you're throwing
your ball and then all these other people throwing the ball,
you're still the number two receiver. You're getting one hundred
plus targets. Two years in a row. And yes, he

(36:20):
had a high rate of just uncatchable balls thrown his way,
but you're talking about over one hundred targets. We're on
everyone eats offense right now in Buffalo and has at
least three receivers other than more and at least one
tight end that you know already warrant fifty to seventy

(36:43):
targets this year. So it's really a math equation problem.
A lot of people are assuming, and I don't want
to say this for everybody, but a lot of people
will look at it is if he put sixty receptions
in Cleveland, he's gonna he's gonna do he seventy plus

(37:03):
in Buffalo. He's gonna put the numbers. They're not really
they're not considering number two target in Cleveland. Now he's
gonna be in Buffalo, he might be the number four target.
And it's it's it's similar in other sports too, like hockey,
there's players on the Savers that can put up seventy
points and a lot of goals. Then on another team
they might be a second liner or a third liner

(37:24):
getting forty five points. Why because they're getting more ice
time on a crappy team. I'm not saying Elijah Moore
is not a good player. I think he is a
good player. But I think he also benefited statistically by
being on a worst roster the last two years. And
we do have this tendency of saying, as fans, well
just pair them with Josh Allen, they're gonna go off.

(37:45):
And yes, we've had examples like Stefan Diggs go off.
We've seen the best version of Cole Beasley. But we
also saw Muri Cooper come to Buffalo and do nothing
after coming to Buffalo. And yes, he dealt with injuries
and he was struggling at the beginning of the year,
but r Cooper was one year or removed from being
a thousand plus yard receiver. People were hyped about Trent
Sherfield coming to Buffalo. There's a lot of players that

(38:08):
we have hyped up or have had bounces up. But
there's a lot of players too that haven't quite lived
up to the hype. So it's important to consider role
and fit scheme wise are just as important as anything else,
and I think that's often overlooked. Now the reason you

(38:28):
and I both like more is I think he is
a scheme fit. I do think he fits it an
important role on the Bills. But that important role to
me isn't wide receiver number two.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
No, it's being realistic. It's saying he's like four or five.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
And I'm okay with that. I think a good season
for more would be forty plus receptions, get me five
hundred to six hundred yards, and I think that would
be doing his job. And if that opens up Keon
Coleman a little bit more, if that lets Josh Palmer
be because, like I'll be real I don't know if
you guys uncover one and talked about Josh Palmer a lot.
I feel like a lot of times of my shows,

(39:00):
people really don't want to talk much about Josh Palmer.
I was going through Josh Palmer's numbers the other day.
His second year in the league, he has seventy two catches.
His third year, people look at the catches in the thirties,
he missed six games. If you look at his middle
two seasons in the league, Josh Palmer was basically a
sixty eight to seventy one catch per seventeen game guy

(39:24):
for over eight hundred, like thirty forty yards, and then
last year, the Chargers went to a run of heavy
run offense when Harbaugh took over, and Herbert's passing attempts
went down to the lowest number in his career, and
Blangrow times had other wide receivers ahead of him and Keenan,

(39:46):
Keenan Coleman, Oh my god, Keenan Colean, What am I saying?
Keenan Allen and Mike Williams. And in the point of
this being, I think Josh Palmer has somehow become underrated
in this receiver room and he has the ability to
have a lot bigger impact than what a lot of
people are saying.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, no, I'm pretty I keep saying it, like pretty
optimistic on Josh Palmer. But I think it's because, again,
my expectations for the player are not a thousand yards.
That'd be awesome. It's not impossible. But again, like.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
I'm not saying, I'm no, yeah, yeah, Like if you
can give me fifty five to sixty for eight hundred,
give me Game Davis numbers for.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Josh if you had three receivers or even like like
if two receivers giving you game numbers, and then just
like other guys accruing like five hundred, like four hundred.
I still think that's a success. Again, it's like we
hyper focus on putting up a thousand, putting up fifteen hundred,
But I think it's the quality of the numbers and like, yeah,
you could put up thirteen hundred on a bad team,
but that's volume stats that are great for fantasy but

(40:51):
don't really mean much other than Cooli's a thousand yard receiver.
But does that translate to an offense that's a bit
more crowded. And I think in the case of More
it is a crowded offense. I don't think he's going
to have sixty receptions. But I think where you can be,
you know, hopeful for the player and look forward to
the player is just what that skill set is intent
with this offense. So this is just a fun conversation.

(41:13):
I'm glad we both had it on our list, and
it's like it's taken upront of the show, honestly, but
it is. It is the most pressing thing, and I
really like your your idea of maybe it makes the
offense a little more pass centric. I think it's not
going to be a major ratio change, but I could
see an uptick. But I had this comment on the
screen for like thirty minutes now, just because I like
this point a lot. There is a quiet danger with

(41:33):
everyone eats quarterback. Wide receiver chemistry is important and comes
with reps. That is another thing that I do think
gets overlooked a bit when you talk about the committee
based wide receiver room, and maybe something that goes against
Elijah Moore or Josh Palmer, maybe more and more than Palmer,
is if you are on the back end of the
wide receiver room in a run heavy offense, there are
only so many chances coming for you in general, to

(41:54):
a point where I don't think sixty receptions is going
to be the count for more. And I think it's
not even just because of an inn ability to get
open or not getting targets because he doesn't want to
be targeted because he's bad, because he's not. It's more
to do with the fact that the Bills will be
running the ball heavily with again a myriad of different
rush concepts, and there are other receivers also in the
mix of a very talented offense, and also the possibility

(42:15):
that even if more is on the field and getting open,
Alan might be pressured. Alan might have to leave the pocket,
you might not get a throw off in general. So
this is a great point because those reps matter, and
that rapport has to be built and there could be
targets coming More's way that are either off throws by
Josh or just inability to connect, and that has to
be taken into account when you talk about projection for

(42:36):
any of these receivers, but especially expectations for Elijah Moore,
especially if you think like we do, he's going to
be in the back end of the wide receiver room.
It's a great comment from you. A Coco ned and
I think is the name, but now moving out, Yeah,
and no go for it.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
And I say that everyone eats a lot, and I
am a big proponent of it. But the last thing
I will say, and I don't think this is being
discussed enough, look at the contracts for the Bills pass
catchers the next three years. As Josh Allen goes into
his thirties. You just extended Shakir so he's gonna be
with the Bills long term. You have Kean Coleman for

(43:15):
the next three years. You have Josh Palmer on a
three year contract. You have Dalton Kinkaid the next two
years and then assuming that he gets his option, his
first round option him another three years. We keep saying
everyone eats because we don't see any stars in this offense.
I want to let people in on a little secret.

(43:37):
I think the Bills already know they're one, two, three
receivers and there, and they include Kincaid in that pass catcher.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
I don't think they really envisioned this being everyone eats
going forward. I think the Bills are just higher on
secure Palmer and Coleman and Kincaid than what most of
their fan base is because this is gonna be the
way the contracts are lined up. How are you going
to make that big receiver move without demoting one of
those guys? And all those people have either gotten a

(44:07):
recent contract or they've been used with a premium asset
in the last year or two. So we can discuss
this over and over again. But when you have four
pass catchers tied to the team for the next two
to three years, that's going to be the future going
forward for Josh Ham.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, and wow, it's almost like the Bills have invested
in their quarterback and try to get them weapons over
the past couple of years. With the early picks. What a concept,
and it's almost like some of those players have gotten
more contracts because they don't hate their quarterback and actually
want to give him pass catchers. But I thought, I
thought that was fun and it's a room that I think.
I think the Bills are higher on these guys than

(44:48):
a lot of the fans are. I think we have
to be a bit more patient with some of the development,
myself included because I had been very critical of don't
inccate on the show. But I do have my concerns
that I think are valid as far as what the
player is, the limitations of the player, and those kind
of rearing their ugly head in certain moments. But I
don't doubt that there are strengths to Kincaid's game, and
maybe players like more do benefit him. Maybe adding other

(45:10):
tight ends into the mix that can kind of take
some of the assignment away, But put Kincaid in more
positions to be what he's good at could help him
and we could be seeing the top three. And I
kind of think I made this point last year. I
don't remember, but the top three pass catchers for the
Buffalo Bills being three different positions, which is tight end
receiver and running back. Because, by the way, patting myself
on the back, James Cook was number three in receptions

(45:31):
on the team last year. I distinctly gave a hot
take in multiple places that James Cook would be top
three in receptions, and I was right. And I never
make bold takes, So I'm going to take that one
for me, score one for the host. Let's move on, Mike,
and I'm going to just read off. I'm just going
to read off another storyline I got and I'm going
to pitch it back to you. If you have this
on your list, great, If not, feel free to give

(45:53):
your thoughts and then pitch me yours back. But I'm
going to give you the health narrative. And the reason
is it's early, and it's very early. I am not
trying to sound a panic alarm of any kind here,
because I'm one person you could turn two to not
panic about things unless it is truly a shitty situation,
which would be apparent. But I do want to keep

(46:16):
a tab on the health of this team going into
training camp, mainly with two players, and that's Cole Bishop
and that is Joey Bosa. Now, the good thing about
Joey Bosa was We saw him doing off the side
of the field work with the trainer. He was moving,
didn't look to be in any pain, and it seems
like whatever ailman he was dealing with shout out to

(46:36):
bang Up Bills for this as well, because they had
an article about It. Doesn't seem to be too major
of a grade, but I am worried about Joey Bosa
having an injury this early and that lingering during training
camp and what that will do for the overall outlook
of the defensive line because Joey Bosa was brought in
to be a staple of this defensive line of this

(46:57):
past rush in third and long situations an area where
the Bill struggled with heavily last year. It was one
of their achilles heels. They were not a good passing
defense on third and long, be it from not being
able to close and finish on pressures and being able
to generate sex. It would lead to opportunities of extended
plays and ultimately conversions that the Bill should not have
been wetting up in numerous games last year. Joey Bosa

(47:21):
is your immediate answer to that problem. On a third
and fifteen, You have an experienced, talented pass rusher to
come in and close, but if he is not healthy,
that does breed concern over if this room has the
same issue, assuming that you are still seeing a development
curve for Landa Jackson, for TJ. Sanders, for Dian Walker,
any of these guys. So the fact that Bosa is

(47:42):
already banged up does make me a little worried and
it is something I want to keep an eye on.
And then for cold Bishop specifically, we saw this problem
last year. I've talked about this on the show numerous times.
Mike cold Bishop's injury last year is, in my opinion,
the reason he didn't have the starting safety job in
week one. It's the reason that Hamlin lapped him because
he could not get reps on the field, but he

(48:04):
started out with the first team. If Bishop has consistent
injury problems going into training camp, are we going to
expect a similar situation where Hamlin, who is also injured,
or a different safety like Derek Forrest, kind of laps
him again and puts him in a situation where he
has to catch up and maybe he's not as smooth
as polished coming back from an injury. And for reps

(48:26):
and then all of a sudden, he's not your starting safety.
I don't want to live in that reality. But again,
we are early in off season. This is not me panicking,
but I am taking note of the fact that players
that have I guess at this point you could say,
have had injury kind of hinder them to some degree
in their careers. The very young career of Bishop being
hindered or by injury and him not being able to

(48:47):
start outright, and Joey Bosa, who we all know has
a history of injuries. I'm keeping an eye on that.
I'm keeping tabs on what it looks like in training
camp and whether it is a consistent narrative that we
now have to worry about, especially for both players who
are going to be, in my opinion, very leaned on
players in this defense. We're not talking about like, you know,

(49:07):
backups or your backup nickel or something along those lines.
We're talking about, debatably, the starting edge rusher for the
Buffalo Bills and the starting safety for the Buffalo Bills
both being banged up early, and hopefully those injuries are
things that are just bringing up for the sake of
a show and nothing more but if they're not, what
do we do? You know, what do we do? What
is the solution and how does it look? So that's
one of mine. Mike, your thoughts on that, and then

(49:29):
from there give me yours.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
I think that's a really a fair storyline. Obviously, injuries
have been something that have plagued the Bills in recent seasons,
and you look at it really playoff time. They've been
missing crucial players for several of their losses during the
Josh Allen era. I don't really worry about injuries as much,
to be honest with you, just because the part of
the game, and I don't think we really ever, really

(49:54):
truly know what most of these players are going through
on a weekly basis. Yeah, there's an injury port, they
have descriptions, we know what gets reported. I'm more of
the assumption that everybody is playing through stuff on a
weekly basis. We only know of the stuff that is
big enough to get reported, the Joey Bosa stuff. And
I actually got on kind of a Twitter conversation with

(50:16):
a little while ago. I'm not overly concerned about this
specific injury now. If you ask me, am I concerned
about Joey Bosa going through an entire season with the Bills. Yeah,
I'm concerned like that he might not be with the
Bills when it matters in the playoffs, But this specific injury,
I'm not overly concerned about it. If it's gonna happen
better now than a month and a half from now,

(50:38):
he's gonna have enough time to recover. They can bring
him in slowly. They there's no reason for him to
even touch the field until he's one hundred percent in
my opinion, as far as like reps and all that stuff,
if it's anything that is taking extra time where he
needed a missing game, I'd be fine with the missing games.
I don't even care if he plays until December. Give
him a month and a half and then I'll be

(51:00):
right at that point. But injuries are going to happen,
and there's really nothing you can do to avoid it. Obviously,
Joey Bosa was a risk I think a risk worth
taking because you're betting on upside and a lot of
people are like, why would you sign somebody that's injured
all the time, while the alternative is getting somebody that
is a B defensive end that doesn't really offer much

(51:21):
upside to you, and then you're playing Mahomes in the
playoffs again, and you're wondering why aj Apanezza isn't getting
sacks or why so and so isn't getting sacks and
Javon Solomon is on the field. Well, it's because you
didn't have anybody that was much better to fill the spot.
So I think it's worth taking chances on Bosa. Injuries
are definitely going to be a concern, but I think
some of the Bill's injury issues are sometimes taking risks

(51:45):
on older players hoping for to have high ceilings to
still deliver a little bit when it matters, and then
I think it sometimes comes to them targeting certain body
types for positions that aren't always going to be the
most durable body types that they're positions. In the NFL,
if we want fast, quick covered linebackers, you're not gonna

(52:05):
be getting guys that are gonna be six. You're gonna
be getting guys sixey. So, uh, it's part of the defense.
Like you if you want to change, if you want
more durable linebackers, well then you're gonna have to switch
some things that you do on defense and accept lesser
results in certain ways. And I don't think we we

(52:25):
kind of discuss that part of it uh as as
fans enough, but that that kind of goes in line
with some of the things I was gonna talk I
was gonna bring up. My next main point was defensive
line and whether or not the additions on this team
can step up and make the desired impact that the
Bills need in order to not win regular season games.

(52:48):
Because this defense has been good in the regular season,
can they step up when it matters and can they
be healthy when it matters. So that's the part I'm
tying into you because I do think Joey Bosa is
a big upgrade over anything they've had at defensive end
in the playoffs in recent times. Von Miller has been
here for three years, the first year he misses it completely.
Two years ago was a shell of himself, and then

(53:10):
last year he was good, but he's only playing thirty
percent of the snaps, so they never really had that
impact opposite of Greg Russo, but they didn't just address that.
You get Michael Hoyt, you get O Janobi. You're bringing
in veterans that should theoretically help out at Oliver and
Greg Russo, and I know a lot of people are

(53:31):
talking about the draft picks. I don't expect these draft
picks to come in right away and be stars on
the Bills defense. There's a reason why they double dipped
in free agency in the draft, and it's a numbers game.
They're hoping that by just throwing sheer numbers at it,
enough of these guys are going to step up to
where they're going to get some production. And it's not

(53:52):
a guarantee to work. I don't think any of these
guys are stars, but I think on paper it looks
a lot better. And ultimately, one thing that we need
to talk about that hasn't been talked about enough the
last two years is we need the Bills defense to
return to what a McDermott defense looks like. The last
two years, they have not been a top five unit.

(54:13):
They've been a unit round ten to twelve in most metrics.
And you factor in that their run defense is normally
going to struggle because their primary nickel and they're in
a matchup disadvantage in those situations. They really need to
step it up overall. And their past defense was a
whole last year. Now you bring in Maxwell Harrison, you

(54:33):
have Trey White back Dan Jackson not saying those are
good players, but maybe enough depth pieces to help rise
this defense to where it really needs to ultimately be.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Well, the defensive line point, it's an honorable mention on
my list that wasn't on it. You did mention something
that is on it. But just to further your point,
I think defensive line is just imperative. Then Chelle McDermott
himself kind of called it out and saying we're going
to go where they go. And that is the crux
of your unit, especially for a team that and likes
to send pressures, likes to send creeper pressures, but often

(55:03):
isn't blitzing with five or six like it's something they'll do,
but not nearly at the rate of other blitz heavy teams.
They want to win with the core for it front
in a rotation, and that is a world any DC
who runs a four three four two five wants to
live in because it's really just now, I don't have
to send the extra bodies. I could sell max and coverage,

(55:24):
you know, and still be able to win and still
give you hell.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Jets defenses under Robert Sala, as much as we clown them,
their successful years were quarters coverage with a four man pressure,
and it worked because they were extremely talented up front
with a great interior defensive lineman. The Buffalo Bills right
now want to live in that world. The Buffalo Bills
defense can be the absolute best version of itself and
the most generous version for its developing players like Max Harriston,

(55:48):
like Dorian Strong, like if you do have Derek Forrest
come in and actually take a starting role, like Cole Bishop,
like all these young players in your secondary. They can
all benefit from a very productive front four that actually closes,
that is able to generate pressure, get sacks. Disruptive quarterbacks,
timing tempo rhythm, deep drops or disrupted quick passes are

(56:09):
the only thing, and therefore they're funneled into a box.
They're disrupting the run of the line of scrimmage and
generating push from the interior. All these things have a
trickle down effect to the rest of the defensive unit
and it would be the best version of the Buffalo Bills. Therefore,
defensive line is something we should be paying a lot
of attention to because, like you just said, Mike, and
I love that point. They threw numbers at it they

(56:31):
are just hoping that. I mean, you're hoping everybody pans out,
but you're hoping, realistically, one or two of these guys
pans out as a really good player that you can
build around, because that's a success. If TJ. Sanders is
that actual Bills one tech profile that plays like Dai
Kwon Jones, but younger, hungrier, faster, stronger, that's a huge win.
That's a huge net positive for your defensive line. But

(56:53):
now you pair that with Joey Bosa, if you're getting
healthy Joey Bosa, if you get positive development from Land
and Jack, which is a realistic possibility in my opinion,
given the box he was put in at Arkansas, and
what more flexibility in this defensive line could do for him,
given the fact that he has such a freak athletic profile,
this could be the best version of the Bills d

(57:13):
line we have seen in a long time, maybe ever.
If those investments pay off, and what that would mean
is your defense as a whole is just going to
be so good, so much better, because, in my opinion,
despite the fact that this Bill's defense on a McDermott
hasn't been what we've seen it be in years past,
it has still been good. It's still been a solid

(57:34):
unit even with no I don't want to say no
pass rush, but without you know, a consistent pass rush
with those third and long lapses like I mentioned, with
the explosive plays that they would let up, you know,
seemingly every game. This is still a good defense. You
can make it even better and your achilles heel when
it comes to playoff competition, playing the Kansas City Chiefs
or if it's a different team eventually that can be

(57:55):
mitigated and you could finally get a defense that, in
my eyes, is worthy of getting you to a super
Bowl and erase a lot of doubt. But these investments
have to pay off, and I think it's fair for
a lot of people to be paying close attention to
the defensive line, as you pointed out. So I love that, Mike,
thank you for bringing that up, because I wasn't going
to and I was kind of hoping you had it
on your list. I'm going to toss back my number one,

(58:17):
we'll toss back to your number one. After then we'll
call it a show. And I said, you've attentioned it
before because you briefly mentioned the corners, so I have
the corners here, and again I'm a huge defensive line truther,
but this is their first round pick in Max Harriston.
This is a player that we have talked about, the traits,
the type of player he is, the fact that compared
to kyer Elam, he actually is a bit more of

(58:38):
a direct scheme fit. However, you know, he's a rookie.
He's figuring out the playbook and they're obviously going to
be paying very close attention to the first round pick
they drafted, and we are as well. I want to
see positive flashes from Max Harriston. I want to see
consistency from Max Harriston. You know, it was a really
funny kind of thing. People were mentioning that Kean Coleman
burned him on a route and everyone's like, wait, Coleman

(59:00):
did that because Coleman's not known for his vertical separation
or speed. So it very clearly tells me that Harston
just was in a bad position, maybe slip something along
those lines, whether it was being anticipatory. I didn't see
the rep. I don't think it was recorded, and obviously
got burned in a REP, but it's practice that's going
to happen dbs are not in great position when you
talk about padless practices and having to cover open field

(59:22):
but no safety help over the top and just being
one on one. I think that seeing Max Harston win
those reps more consistently and start showing real flashes kind
of like we've been seeing with Benford in practice, that
is a huge boost for the optimism for the secondary,
for the cornerback position. I think that is something fans

(59:43):
could take with them as they get to training camp
to be excited for. And I think that would make me,
as just an individual, really really high on this quarterback
room because I'm going to tell you something, do same
argument for the defensive line and the investment they made
in it is the same one you can make for
their quarterback position because they have added this all season
for bodies in Harriston and Dorian Strong, bringing back Trey White,

(01:00:04):
bringing back Dan Jackson, and while I do think more
than likely Jackson is going to be a casualty of
cut down day, it still emphasizes that they are putting
significant investment into the numbers of this room and that
this dB room, this secondary could really be strong if
you get positive flourishes or I'm sorry, positive flashes Jesus
from Harriston and even strong. And I think that that's

(01:00:27):
why I put it number one on my list as
the most important one, because again that's your first round pick.
CB two has been something that, apart from Russell Douglas,
has been a really neat as far as top end
elite play because we've gotten good play out of it
and guys like Levi Wallace and Dan Jackson. But you
want another dog opposite of Christian Benford. You want teams

(01:00:47):
to fear throwing to the boundary or really anywhere on
the field. And again, the same argument you have for
the defensive line can be flipped on its head and
something Anthony always calls a chicken or egg kind of conversation,
like the secondary being good could trickle to the defensive line.
You could generate coverage, sacks, You could really benefit that
room that's still developing as well. So for me, you
could choose either or when you talk about what you

(01:01:08):
prioritize as the most important to see from defense, But
for me, I chose corner tonight just because again the
investment with their first first round pick, I should say,
and really what that room could be with Christian Benford
with the safety play and Sean McDermott developing DBS. If
Harston pans out, I mean you're in for a lot
of fun plays from your secondary because Harston, the speed,

(01:01:31):
the ball coverage, like the ball recognition, the processing in
real time, it's all there for him. He's just got
to be ready for the playbook and don't let the
playbook defeat you. Be on top of it, be savvy,
and I think you could see a lot of fun
things from that room and in turn from this defense
kind of putting them together. Mike, as you bring up
d line and I bring up corners, what about you
final narrative before we sign off for the unik.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
First, I love your cornerback point, and I think the
Bills moves this offseason, the doubling down on corner in
defensive line show you how they felt about their roster
as a whole going into this offseason. And while people
would say, well, put more into receiver, what the Bills
basically are telling you is they know they can score

(01:02:12):
thirty points a game with what they have on offense
right now. They think their offensive line is great, they
like their tight ends, They know they have an MVP quarterback.
They have good running backs, they didn't really need to
put much help on the offense, but doubling down on
D line and corner, that shows that they were basically
desperate to get a higher ceiling in that room, and

(01:02:35):
they were willing to do whatever it took to get there,
whether that be buying on youth and hoping that they
can get guys with upside like Harson, or getting veterans
like Trey who are steadied know what they're coming into
and if Harrison isn't ready, I trust Trey can get
by for small sample sizes. Do I want to trust

(01:02:56):
him for an entire season? Probably not, But I think
that who better to be a mentor for Maxwell Harrison
than Trey White, who's already succeeded at the highest level.
And I love what you bring up about having a
reliable corner too. All these years where it's been a
heavy emphasis on the corner on the safeties with Micah
Hyde and Jordan Poyer and Trey White, than at corner,

(01:03:18):
they really haven't had a dynamic number one number two
corner combo. If Hairston hits and you have Benford continue
to play at this peak, that's gonna be really tough
for teams to go up against. And then I'll even
make lives easier on the defensive line. Like you said,
what helps what well, they can both lean on each
other and help each other up. My last point would

(01:03:42):
be first storyline, how do the Bills handle the pressure
of this offseason? And the reason why I say that
is not to say that they haven't had pressure in
previous years, but last year was kind of a reset
year that they blew it out of the park and
they killed all expectations. Before the year, people were saying

(01:04:03):
on the Jets were gonna win the division with Aaron Rodgers,
that Miami was gonna still be a tough challenge for
the Bills. People were picking the Bills. Some people were
picking the Bills to finished third in the division. There
was no expectations outside of Buffalo for the Bills last year,
and I think sometimes that feeds right into the Bill's
mentality and their culture and the root. This year, though,

(01:04:23):
you're coming off another playoff loss against Kansas City, where
you've tried everything and you still can't get past them
when it matters. Some people would say that Brandon Bean's
comments on WGR five point fifty would would show a
little bit of the pressure coming out what he's feeling
the stress. I would disagree a little bit. I think
he was more just frustrated at their narratives. But some

(01:04:45):
people would disagree with me and say that's that's some
frustration and stress boiling over. We're now seeing them on
hard knocks later this summer, where they're going to be
thrown into an environment they're not accustomed to a having
all the cameras on them. Think the regular season is
going to be much of a concern because they do
have a schedule they can they can get through. But

(01:05:07):
you are going to first six games without ojenob being
Michael Hoyt, You're gonna have injuries at some points during
the year. How are you going to handle the adversity?
Normally the Bills step up and they handle it fine,
But come January, come February, can you make the needed changes?
Can you step up when it matters the most? And

(01:05:29):
can you get over that that hurdle that they haven't
been able to get through, Because for better or worse,
we always talk about how the offense still looks great
in the postseason, but there's always just that little. The
playoffs are so finite, the margins of error and that
separate Kansas City winning Super bowls and the Bills losing
to Kansas City. And if you look at every playoff game,

(01:05:51):
there's a few players ride the offense and there's obviously
a ton of players to ride the defense. We're like,
if they could have just stepped up there and made
that throw, or if they could have just gotten that
pass rush there, or if they could have just made
that tackle or been in the right spot, they could
have won those games. I think this is a pivotal
year because on the outside, the Bills have everything that
they need to win a Super Bowl. This is probably

(01:06:13):
their most complete roster since the year they opened on
Thursday Night Football against the Rams. If they don't make
it to at least the Super Bowl this year, I
believe McDermott will enter next year on a hot seat.
This is his last year where I think you can
say he's safe regardless of what happens. But if they

(01:06:36):
don't make it there, I think there's people are gonna
be like, Okay, Josh Allen's thirty. Now, now we have
to to do something about it. So I'd be My
number one storyline not that it's a worry now because
we're in good times nothing bad has happened, but once
adversity starts happening, whether that be early in the regular season,

(01:06:58):
midway through the regular season, or in the playoffs, how
do they handle it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
I love that point. I think that's a great one
to keep an eye on. And yeah, you have to
ask yourself, are they going to kind of respond the
same way they did last year or is there going
to be an added layer of pressure since they exceeded
expectations made the AFC Championship and you have this kind
of universal understanding that they can do that even with
worse talent, but now they've made the talent better. So

(01:07:22):
is the inverse going to happen where you improve the roster,
but all of a sudden you're not living up to
the expectations you had, Which is seemed to be a
trend for them where every other year seems to be
like this down year where they win like, they still
win the division, they still have eleven games, they still
go in the playoffs, but it's uglier. And I think
that that probably happens, not even just because of like
the mystique of the trend, but really just because thirteen wins,

(01:07:45):
it can be replicated. I think it should be replicated
given the schedule, but it's hard to replicate the same
exact level of success year after year. Things change. Things
that went your way one year won't go your way
the next. Some bounces go to the other team. It's
just the way it happens. I think for the Buffalo Bills,
it's all about, like you said, responding to that adversity
and being a team that despite added layers of expectations,

(01:08:09):
can still be that formidable front of the AFC and
also finally nab a one seed, get that Super Bowl appearance.
Those are the things that you're going to be hearing
from people, and it's a big question amongst fans. McDermott detractors,
regime detractors. You know when if ever, and I think
that that's valid. You know now that we're at a
point where we've kind of had this reset, and this

(01:08:31):
is that first year of your vision of the reset
and now being realized and spearheading into a new direction
where you have to hope that this works, because if
it doesn't, now you're going to start questioning is this
ever going to happen? So I think it is fair
to say that the pressure is on them and that
they have to respond to it. And I think it
is fair to say that if they don't even get
back to the same point as they did last year,

(01:08:52):
you have to start asking the question will it ever happen?
And I know that's very definitive and you never know
with football, but I think with the the tenure Sean
McDermott has had and Brandon Bean have had, you are
allowed to ask that question. You know. As much as
I defend McDermott and being on the show, I also
am willing to say, you guys have made the investments.
We have to see some return on this. You could

(01:09:12):
sell me on the idea for another season if it
doesn't happen this year, just because of how young these
players are and maybe what youth infusion could look like,
which could lead to some hiccups. But then I'm still
gonna say, well, you know what, these are your picks
and they have to start showing me something or I'm
gonna lose faith. So I don't think we're at that
point yet. That's an extreme for the future. As you alluded,
to We're in good times right now, but I think

(01:09:33):
it is fair for fans to have expectations. There is
an added level of pressure for the Bills. They have
to respond to it. The schedule, the way it shakes out,
at least right now, seems in their favor. There's no
real excuse for them to regress. But that can happen.
It can happen to any team. But I'll leave it there. Mike,
you have been an awesome guest and this has been
a great conversation. I always appreciate your time, your insight.

(01:09:54):
I think you know with Mini camp and the dry
weeds of the offseason, this was still a very productive conversation.
But I always like to get my guests before. You
know this by now, you've be on the show many times,
Mike Bunt. Tell the good folks who are watching this
show right now where they can find you, what you
got going on, give them the good word.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Yeah. If you can tolerate my commentary and you enjoyed
what I had to say today, you can find me
at Mike Underscore Bunt on Twitter and part of train
Wreck Sports. We're growing a ton on Instagram. Give us
a follow. We know Cover one of the smart football guys.
We try to be the fun football guys, so we

(01:10:34):
know our place. We recently added a cool, awesome guy
to the team in Aj Sabolski. G yours to Joe,
So we're trying to add our add to our level
of in football intelligence. But we appreciate anybody that follows
along and we just we enjoy talking Bills, football, savers, hockey,

(01:10:56):
whatever it might be. Buffalo sports.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Oh yeah, give him a follow up, Guys, check out
Mike's work. Check out everything going on over there. AJ's
a good dude too. I was happy to see that
he got something over there. He's been on the show
a couple of times, always a pleasure to work with,
So check out what he has going on. I appreciate you, Mike.
This was awesome. I'm looking forward to just more offseason
discourse and hopefully some exciting things to come out of
Mini Camp. For all of you that tuned in, I

(01:11:20):
appreciate the kind words in our chat. I appreciate you
joining us before you go, be sure to like this one.
Be sure to click subscribe if you are not subscribed
to cover one already. If you are on YouTube right now, Facebook, wherever,
you stream our content, don't close your browsers, just take
a brief pause because Anthony Prohasko will be on after
me with this Guy's coverage to discuss James Cook, the
hot button topic of Mini Camp, and it will be

(01:11:42):
a very insightful and well thought out analysis, as it
always is from him. My name is Joe DeRosa and
again you can find me at under review see one
best guide dot social. I am over there for the
show specifically, and it's been pretty cool. I like that
platform a lot. But I'm gonna put up the banner
that says Joe refoi again you We're fantastic. We will
see what happens tomorrow in the coming days and have

(01:12:04):
our narratives set for the off season before we get
to training camp. It has been a very dry offseason,
because every drop season is really dry, but stick with
us Cover one and all of the great content creators
in our space like Mike Bunt are here to guide
you through the slow season and get you to more
exciting times in just a few months. But for tonight,
I hope you all have a great rest of your evening,

(01:12:25):
enjoy your Tuesday. We will see you soon and as always,
go Bills, thanks for watching. Everybody

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