Buffalo Bills Reveal the Final Roster - Reactions and Evaluation | UR - Under Review

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Last week, we brought you our predictions and our evaluation
of the roster pre cutdown Day. Well, people, cutdown Day
has happened, and we are going to react to the
moves that the Buffalo Bills have made this upcoming season.
Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode
of Under Review. I appreciate each and every one of
you for watching or listening without further ado, let's get into.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
It previous play, we'll go under Review.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
How you doing, everybody?

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Thank you so much for being here again on this
week's episode of Under Review. My name is Jo DeRosa
and the only reason my tagline is the way it
is is because I've been listening to that album all
week because it rules. But you know what else rules football,
and it's right around the corner as the final roster
for the Buffalo Bills and around the league for every
team has been revealed, and I will say this, it's

(01:24):
not far off from what we expected it to be
last week, but still interesting and still something that we
wanted to talk about tonight. And by we, I never
just mean me, I mean I have a guest. That
guest is someone who was here a few weeks ago
that guest is someone I love having on the show
who inspired a Yankees related rant before we went live.

(01:45):
That is the one and only mister Anthony Prohaska. And
I said to you after the show, I'll go on
my Aaron Boone ramp, but for now we are going
to talk about this final roster.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
But before we do, how you doing tonight, my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
I'm doing good.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Good.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Baseball is super annoying at times, and even you know,
through the good times and the bad, it's still super annoying.
So I'm right there with you in spirit. But I
appreciate you having me. I'm excited to talk bills and
uh yeah, I'll be back here once again.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, No, I love getting you on the show. I'm
excited to talk bills too.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
I'm excited that it's no longer concept shows for everybody
on our network where we're just trying to figure something
out in the weeds of the summer. It's like, oh,
we have something, we can react to it and it
feels so good and so much easier, and it really
is like just such, in my opinion, the best time
of year, just because you get all that optimism for
your season also all not just bills and not just

(02:38):
the NFL, but college football back and you get the
late season for baseball and like it's that good time
of the year.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
It feels good, blood's flowing. But before we.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Get into the roster and I just wanted to gauge
a reaction real fast on the uniform announcement today the
NFL Rivalries uniform and the Buffalo Bills were one of
those teams who came out with a very nice, icy
zoie aesthetic something that I was I saw mockups for
and I was like, yeah, I mess with this. I
hope this is what it looks like and it was
pretty close to that. What did you think of the

(03:09):
real the reveal? And I mean, are you excited to
see him in person?

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I thought the reveal was cool. I like the uniforms.
I said it when the mock ups kind of happened,
and like you said, like, these were pretty close to
what was mocked up or what the you know, rumored
leaks were a month or so ago or whenever that
was dropping. I said that they would look like if
the White Walkers from Game of Thrones had uniforms, and
that's what they look like. And I think they're pretty sweet.
And then some people came and like, oh, they just

(03:33):
looked like the Vikings kind of white out uniforms from
last year. But I'm okay with that because I also
liked the Vikings white from last year. Like I thought
those real crisp and real clean.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I liked them.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
I liked the reveal. I liked a lot of the
Rivalry uniforms, even like the Niners ones. I like the black.
I like the font and how that was done. I
like the Cardinals one. I liked the Jets one. I
thought the Pats one was good Miami. I loved their
color scheme. I don't love the black. I think it's
cool that they're named like the Dark Water, Like I
was like, oh, that's kind of cool. But I think

(04:05):
I fel actually did pretty decent with a lot of these,
and I like the Bills ones. I'm interested to see
what they look like on the field, and I really
hope it just doesn't snow that game because the All
twenty two is gonna be terrible and you're not gonna
be able to see anyone. And that's my big my
big question right now.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
This is if I remember correctly, if I was dude
on October fifth, so you should be safe and the
all twenty two should it be botched?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
And for them, no, Man, we got a huge October
storm when I was in school at one point as
a tiny child, and I think of that all the time.
It was like October, like middle of October. So yeah, never.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Done anything past it.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
I think it was twenty and twelve or twenty and thirteen.
I was in high school at the time when there
was a snowstorm right before Halloween and it lasted through Halloween.
And I remember, like me and my friends because we
were in high school, and yes we still trick or
treated free candy. Don't judge me for being too old
to trick or treat. We were walking around the neighborhood
and we're like, man, like, this is so weird. This
feels surreal almost this, but I don't. I would imagine

(05:02):
that won't happen. Knock on wood, and if it does,
I'm so sorry for jinxing it here. And if you
were someone who might not be on Twitter or socials
and happened to not have seen it yet, I will
share it for you now just so you can get
a nice visual. And I'm just gonna pull it up
now with the hardest photo I have ever seen of
Dion Dawkins.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
That is your uniform that I saw that and was like,
holy crap.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
And the visor looks great as it too, like the
adviser puts it together like it's a good aesthetic right there.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yes, that is a beautiful image. And to be honest
with you, and I think I'm gonna get one. I
just feel like these are probably gonna sell quick. And
getting a Dawkin's seventy three the Snowman and the snow
aesthetic just feels like it feels right.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
I feel like a good omen. I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Sucks the only wear at once, but just like for
the other uniforms too, I personally wasn't a fan of most,
except for ironically the Patriots one. I thought that the
Patriots one had a cool like kind of the retro numbering.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
That they used to have back in like the eighties.
But I like that.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Whole like winter storm vibe that they were going for,
and like the light half house and bay water around it.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
I thought I think they call they called it.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I think they called it like the Nor'easter, which I
thought was a little like not great branding, but I
get what they were going for.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I guess it's it's an e I think they just
thought that and didn't go any further into it. But
apart from that, I mean, I did like the fact
that each uniform had, you know, the the like origins
of the franchise and also the locale and the fandom
surrounding it, like Seattle doing the sound waves on their shoulders.
And then the Emerald green helmet was really cool to have,

(06:31):
like the whole Emerald City vibe.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
I liked it, but I didn't even realize that's super.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
You know what's funny is I looked it up right
now because I didn't even pay attention to Seattle one.
The Seattle one is really nice.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, it's like an Oregon Ducks, like mid two thousands,
like later like twenty ten's.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Kind of look.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
And I liked that they tapped into that because that's
a lay up for them. And also that helmet, that's.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Dude, I'm I was gonna say, the helmet, I'm looking
at the helm. The helmet is sick.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
That helmet's crazy.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I'm a big fan of what I wasn't too. I
wasn't too crazy about Arizona's and the only reason I
wasn't wasn't the helmet. The helmet's fine. It's a hard
cell for me to buy into grains of sand on
a uniform popping out for reasons that it doesn't particularly
look like sand, but rather a different substance that you

(07:19):
rolled around in that I don't think would be appropriate
for an NFL jersey. Someone said the jerseys look like
a tortilla chip, and now that's the only thing I
can think of on every time I see them.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
I didn't even think of that. That's yeah, that's spot on.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
That's all I think of.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Now, that's all I But like you know, I can at.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Least appreciate the attempt for every team, and I can
appreciate again like stemming your uniform from origins of your
franchise and the city. So that was pretty cool. I'm
really excited to see these bills ones in person. But
there was a hot button topic. I had to bring
it up. But now I want to get into the
roster anthony again. Like it was difficult to predict, there
were a lot of avenues for certain positional groups, just
like you know, the back end of the offensive line,

(07:58):
the wide receiver room, the defensive line, even where you
were like, man, who's gonna be the fifth guy? Could
there be a sixth guy? Like what will this end
up looking like? Come the actual day we find out
about the final roster, So before we go into each group,
just your overall thoughts. I mean, was this run of
the mill expected for you? Did anything really surprise you majorly?
Or you kind of sitting here like, you know, what

(08:20):
are your feelings on it as a whole.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Honestly, it was largely what I expected, and I never
do like a roster prediction like tweet or show or
anything like that. But I had said different things throughout
different podcasts, like my show being on the Rock Pile Report,
even like on your show, I mentioned different things. I'm
fairly confident I nailed like ninety five percent of what

(08:43):
the roster was like, minus them going with six receivers,
So nothing was really too surprising for me. The only
the only thing I think was a little surprising was
six wide receivers instead of five. But I also don't
know how much of that was. Like if Max Hairston
is good to go, do they drop a corner and

(09:06):
you know it for Hairston, or do they add Hairston
and drop one of the receivers. That's the only thing
that kind of I think makes it wonky a little bit.
And then you know, I don't know what happens at
edge and defensive tackle if Ogun Joby and Hoyt aren't suspended,
Like does your boy Dwayne Carter not make the team?
Is Javon Solomon not making it? Or do they go
crazy and it's Landon Jackson that's not making it. I
don't think that's the case. Or do they drop someone

(09:28):
from somewhere else? Like I think that's the interesting game
has been ship that I'm focused on going forward. Once,
once Hairston's good, once Hoyt is good, once Ogunjobi is good,
who drops for them? I think Grabel coming back it's
pretty I think you probably dropped Lunt out of everybody.
I don't think it's going to be vand of market
think you probably dropped Lunt. You bring in Grabel. But
I'm interested to see what happens for the goal for

(09:49):
But this initial fifty three nothing really surprised me too
much in any way.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, not crazy surprise given what we already knew about
the suspensions of potential I ARC candidates. I think the
only last week that I predicted, well, it was probably
a couple things that weren't totally right, like the linebacker count.
I know I got wrong. I didn't think they were
gonna cut Yulficio. I thought he'd probably stick around just
for one more season because I was like, well, if
you're gonna keep Carter here, and Carter hasn't really shown out,
maybe you could keep him for a special team's body.

(10:15):
But they just decided it wasn't serviceable enough and they
wanted to go with the VET. But I predicted that
they would have the six linebacker. I also think I
said Cedric van Prey and Hermione Granger was going to
go on the IR instead, he actually stays on the
active roster and they put Grayball on the actor on
the IR, so that was a kind of like a
trade but offensive lineman to IR with Max Harrison. And

(10:37):
then I also, you know, I had John helcampong last
week and we were both like, Trey, please don't go
on the fni R, like I don't want to live
in that reality. That made me so paranoid, And thankfully
he's not, although we'll have to see if he's ready
for week one. But this this is a pretty standard,
Like I think everyone had the right idea and it
was just how they got to that end point varied.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
I'm not really overly surprised, but I think it's cool.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Not for the best circumstances. Obviously, you don't want Max
Harriston to go on IR. You don't want to see
Ogunjobi or Hoyd suspended when you sign them. But what
I do think is it did create opportunity in ways
for guys like Chase Lunt to get a spot on
the active roster. It did create an opportunity for Tyrrell
Shavers to finally get a six spot, because before all
of this went down, I was just firmly in the

(11:22):
belief that they'd carry five and Shavers would just be
your primary practice squad guy. So it's cool that he's
getting an opportunity to at least get maybe four to
six games to show what he can do and hopefully
do something to justify keeping him here. But that conundrum
you present where these guys come back from suspension, these
guys come off of IR, who the hell goes? Because
there's a justification in my eyes for a lot of

(11:44):
people to be here that like, even if they made
the back end of the roster, I still feel like, oh,
are they gonna stay on the practice squad? Could they
get poached? Like I don't I don't particularly want to
lose this player, So that'll be interesting when it happens.
But for right now, this is our fifty three and
I want to go over it. So I mean, we'll
start off with quarterback. I'm not stunned at all that

(12:05):
they just went Alan Trubisky. Did you have any like
thoughts that maybe Mike White could usurp him for less money,
or maybe Trubisky kid moved and they hold on to
White like anything here, or was it what you expected
going into it?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
I was rooting and kind of pulling for Mike White
just because I I thought Trubisky was playing really timid
and trepidatiously since he left Chicago, which is understandable. I
feel like his like not even make a joke. I
feel like his spirit was broken with how like things
ended in Chicago and he was playing very safe. Granted
he could have been instructed to play that way, but

(12:39):
he just did not really look good his first time
around in Buffalo or in Pittsburgh and then coming back
here and Mike White, although you know, back up and
not some stud, He's got more impressive regular season games
under his belt recently than Trubisky, like a couple three
hundred yards I think maybe even a four hundred yarder
that went against the Vikings when he played for the Jets,
where he was just ripping it, and I kind of
wanted to see what Mike White could do. But I thought,

(13:02):
you know, similar to baseball, ty goes to the runner.
I figured a tie would go to Trubisky, or if
anything was close, it would go to Trubisky. And he
played well in camp, He played well in the preseason.
You saw some athleticism, He had a couple of nice
deep throws and intermediate throws. So once that started to happen,
I figured it was going to be Trubisky's job, and
then it would come down to White or Bouchelle on
the practice squad. But knowing their affinity for Bouschelle over

(13:24):
the years, and then with how well he played against Tampa,
I felt like the writing was on the wall, unfortunately
for Mike White. But yeah, nothing really. Once I saw
Strubisky start to open it up a bit, I figured
it was his spot.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, I never thought that they were going to break
from Trubisky just for the amount of money they were
paying him, but also it would have taken a substantial
offseason and camp. For Mike White, he always was facing
an uphill battles, same for Buchelle. But Bouchelle to me
was always like your practice squad primary like the caddy
for Josh Allen as he's been described. I think the
thing about Trubisky that makes me like semi comfortable if
you had to turn to him, I'll never feel comfortable

(13:57):
if it's anyone but Josh Allen knock on wood, but
like if you had to, you know, pull me out
of the well from depression and convince me of something
that could give me any sort of shining light. It's
that maybe more play action from this offense helps Traubisky
because you can boot him around and maybe that's how
he sees the feel better and make some I guess
more impressive plays than that.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Would be such a monkey's paw thing for us that
we asked for more play action. And then it's because
Alan gets hurt and they have to do like play
action all day to help Trubisky, Like oh man, that
would be so monkey's paw for us that we know
they got to increase the play action. But they have
to now because Alan went down. Oh my yead.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Sorry, I just had to knock on the wooden door
because I feel like that was just like a stud
find something that's Yeah, that was we.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Got a wooden door right next to the death. Thankfully.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, let's hope that doesn't happen. But just all this
to say, for a backup quarterback sake, it does make sense.
I think that can help him if you were ever
needed to turn him, and it's a justification for keeping him,
but it still would have be ideal.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
But it's also backup quarterback.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean, I'm gonna understand and didn't no matter what,
because it's a player you hope you never have to see,
so just make it make sense.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Running back, I don't.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
I don't really have any opinions on this because I
feel like this is what everyone expected. Do you think
of anything, and if if not, like any surprises for you?
I mean, what is your outlook and thought on this
running back group as a whole.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
That's a good So we're putting no surprises.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
I think.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I still expect Ray Davis to see an uptick, but
I really thought he would get more when I didn't
think James Cook was coming back, and then he got extended.
So I think that Muddies thing is a little bit.
I don't think Cook is all of a sudden gonna
become like a seventy percent Snaphare guy and they're gonna
run him into the ground. But I think, I really,
I do have a genuine kind of question in terms

(15:44):
of like what the ratio looks like with Davis and
Cook and then Ty Johnson. You know, the Bills are
for as good as a pass protector as Ty Johnson is,
and even Ray Davis can hold his own as well.
They really do a lot of five man protections and
they don't ask the running back to stay in a ton,
and Joe Brady loves getting five eligibles out into the
route distribution some way, shape or form. So I wonder

(16:07):
do we see more third down snaps for Cook? Do
we see more just different alignments with the running backs
and do different things. But whatever they do, I'm confident
and comfortable. I really like James Cook and his fit.
I still like Ray Davis, and I really like Ty
Johnson as an RB three. I think this is a
good mix. I think it's a good top three. I
didn't expect anything to change, even with you know, I

(16:29):
like Frank Gore. I'm happy he's on the practice cloud,
but there's no way he was going to crack that
top three. No disrespect to him. So I really am
interested to see what the usage, not even just the
snap share in terms of total snaps, but like the
usage and the roles and how things start to go
forward now that Cook is a foundational member of this
offense going forward, which I really I really did not expect.

(16:50):
So it's throwing my expectations a bit, not necessarily for
a loop, but my intennas are up to kind of
see what's actually going to happen now.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, I think a lot of us went into this
offseason with this understanding that this would either be James
Cook's last year and there might be like more of
an uptick for Ray Davis, or that there was a
very outside chance of contract could get done and when
they did, every other players essentially that was due for
one this season. First, I was like, all right, yeah,
that's kind of the running on the wall for Cook,

(17:18):
Like they're not going to pay the running back. They'll
let them walk and we'll just figure it out in
the draft or maybe next season. And then you see
the back and forth and eventually a contract extension that
I was like, oh okay. And to be honest, I like,
you know, that was always the figure that I was
comfortable with for Cook, maybe slightly over. So I don't
hate it, but I do wonder if you just see
the same thing you saw last year. To put it blunt,

(17:40):
lee like, obviously nothing is exactly the same. But when
you talk about Cook leading the snaps but not running
away with the snap share and finding efforts to get
Ray Davis and Ti Johnson the ball, I think that
it's just going to be a very similar and that
being a good thing for the Bills offense, a very
similar running back room season where James Cook is going
to be your primary first and second down guy. If
you're in a passing situation, maybe you turn over to

(18:02):
Ty Johnson for protection or as a receiving pack. Maybe
they give Ray Davis Moore shine in that role. But
they brought Ty Johnson back on a two year deal.
I feel like it's gonna look the exact same, because
I think they just really love him in that role,
and Ty Johnson might be the best return. I know
it's gonna sound nuts, but it might be the best
return on investment Brandon Bean has made when you think

(18:22):
about his impact, his production and the moments, like think
of Ty Johnson as a bill and you could point
to like ten awesome plays in like high leverage moments
from him. We were like, holy shit, like this is
the greatest off the street free agent signing we've made,
Like there was all the reason to keep him, and
if they didn't, I kind of wondered if that meant
Frank gor Junior, head of Spot, But it's it's your

(18:44):
standard three. I think the snapcounts are gonna look similar,
and I think the production will look similar as a result,
as long as everything stays intact. So I don't really
have anything to say other than I like it. I
think everyone likes it. I think people are happy that
James Cook is still here, and that's a good thing
to because well, who's to say we haven't seen James
Cook become the best version of himself. Who's to say

(19:05):
that paying him this money didn't make him feel like Okay,
the stress is gone. I could play loose free knowing
I'm getting a paycheck, a really good one, and that
maybe those other parts of this game flourish a little bit.
That might be wishful thinking, but James Cook becoming an
awesome passwalker after you gave him like a really fair
market contract would be the best outcome ever. Maybe not

(19:28):
for Ty Johnson, but for everybody else. That'd be freaking awesome.
But we'll have to say. I'm happy he's here, and
I think it'll be another good year from him. Many
final thoughts on running back yet, No.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I think they have a legitimately very good running back
room from top to bottom, and you consider just the
depth the top end, and to your point, I think
Cook is still a sending on an upward trajectory. So
I'm excited to see what his twenty twenty five looks like.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Same here.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
I'm excited to see what he looks like, the room
looks like, and maybe what tweaks to the offense could
help that running back room even further. Wide receivers next
on the list, However, I want to just talk about
tight end beforehand, because I'd rather do this real fast
and then delve into the vortex of wide receiver, but
tight end.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Don't get kid Dulson Knox, Jackson Hawes.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
This is what I had Gilliam as listed as a
tight end, but he's obviously in the running back.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
I think this is pretty expected. Do you have any
thoughts about it and what are your thoughts on the
unit as a whole.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, this is what I thought it was going to be.
I'm just excited to see that or have the potential
of Hawes and Gilliam on the field together at the
same time, and then even more so for Hawes, Gilliam
and Alec Anderson to be on the field at the
same time. I just want to mash teams and grind
them into a pulp with the run and just get
downhill and blow dudes off the line and create displacement

(20:45):
and mash and take souls with the run. So I
like this.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
What I do think is interesting.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
I wonder I said this on my show earlier in
the week. I think Dawnson Knox is a fine tight end.
I still don't like what he's paid relative to what
he is, and then the injuries and availability and all that,
But I wonder, is there a world where Dawson Knox
gets cut next offseason. If Hawes proves himself to be

(21:12):
the quality inline blocker that he is, and if he
offers anything as a pass catcher to make them go,
you know what we can make do with him and
can k because the way I look at it now,
at the tight end room with these three, Dawson Knox
is not the best blocker with Hawes now, and he's
also not the best pass catching option as the tight end.
So he's like in the middle, which can be good.

(21:35):
You could do it. You can Devil's advocate the hell
out of this thing. You could look at it as
a positive and be like, oh, he's got the best
of both worlds, like a little bit, like that's pretty good,
because I do think he's a better in line blocker
than he gets credit for. But you could look at
it like them, but oh he's good all around. Or
you could look at it like he's a jack of
all trades, master and none and there's two guys that
are more of a master of their trade than he

(21:56):
is at either. And he is paid a decent chunk
of money, and the dead cap hit isn't crazy from
a post June first standpoint. If you trade him or
release him, and there's some savings there and for a
team that might be wanting to sign or bring back
Connor McGovern or David Edwards or I don't know anything.
Now that they signed James Cook. I wonder between the

(22:17):
cat casualty perspective and the combination of Hawes and Kincaid,
I wonder if this puts knocks on the chopping block
at especially if what if he goes out, misses I
don't know, like between five to ten games, and then
you just go, you know what, we can't keep doing this.
Let's cut bait. Or if Hawes just plays well and
masters as a blocker or provides something as a pass catcher,

(22:37):
or if Kincaid improves a little bit as a blocker,
stays healthy and catches eighty five passes or something like that.
So that's doing the kind of thing I'm looking at
going forward in this year. Really how the tight end
room this year impacts what the room looks like next year.
But as far as just the roster, I figured it
was going to be those three and it was.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I like that entire so. And I do think that
I like Dawson Knox. I like him for this team.
But if I think the worst thing for Dawson Knox
is if Dalton kink does take another leap both as
a pass catcher and a blocker, and if Jackson Hawes
is just giving you similar play. I have long since
lauded Jackson Hawes's blocking ability. I have no doubt in
the world that that's going to be very good when

(23:20):
he gets on the field, And I'm very excited to
see those packages, whether it's him and Gilliam, him and
Alec Anderson, him in line, especially at the goal line.
I'm looking forward to that because I just think there's
a lot you could do with a menacing blocker like that.
I wonder if him being that dedicated blocking guy helps
Kinkad out in any sort of capacity with how you
align him. Again, Kinkate's got to do his share of
the work to get better there too, But I still

(23:42):
think he's a talented enough receiver where that can happen.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
But yeah, all these.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Factors all do not benefit Dawson Knox's longevity theme or future,
Like they don't. They Just the more you kind of
talk about like Hawes and Kinkaid, You're just like, all right,
what does that mean for Dawson Knox. It's like hmmm
and like not great, but you know that's what it is.
And look, when they gave him the contract, it was rich,
but you were banking on that season continuing. You were

(24:08):
banking on another twenty twenty one. That's the risk you take.
It didn't happen.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
It sucks.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
I still like him. I still think he's, as you said,
a fine tight end. I think for this season he'll
still be involved. But I think the tell that you
could also make out being like probably an omen for
Knocks especially, is if let's say Knox gets banged up
and you have Haws as your tight end two and
Kincaid's on the field, and then Knox comes back and
the splits between Knox and Haws are not far apart,

(24:34):
or Hauls laps him, I think that's your kiss of
death right there. I think that would be a clear
cut sign that they feel more comfortable with the other guy,
and they're gonna go with the other guy, and eventually
Dawson Knox will will have to depart, and I again
like the guy, liked the player. I could see that outcome,
But for just this immediate season, I think this is
a perfectly fine room with rum to be really good
if again you get that leak from Kincaid and see

(24:56):
a year three flash. Because I'm not I have great
concerns about him. I'm not out on him. I say
this all the time. There are one Yeah, it's so early.
It's a slow developing position. And he there's a lot
of external factors, Like he's the three body problem of
this entire roster.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
He is his own problem.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
He's a Josh Allen problem, and he's really like, what
was the other point? Damn, I had a third problem
and I just totally blanked on it.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
And I'm really mad. Oh, I'm so.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
Mad now because that was I felt like I was
cooking and now I'm not cooking anymore. But all this
to say external factors, Oh, injury, it was injuries.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Injuries.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
That's a third problem, which is a hymn problem too,
but not as a player, just more so circumstanced because
the knee injury he suffered was literally the result of
him trying to die for an errand Josh Allen ball
that he went up for and just slammed his knee
on the ground. So it's really frustrating because the evaluation
of Dalton Kincaide stems from so many different factors that
make it murky that I hope this year he could

(25:55):
stay on the field enough to prove a lot of
people wrong, because.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
His year one was really good.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
His year one voted away really well for the rest
of his career, and I'm hoping we get that again.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
So all this to say, I like the room. I
think it could be really good.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
But even if it's not really good, you could do
a lot worse than these three guys. And I still
think the Bill's rushing attack as a result of the
blocking from guys like Hause and a little bit of Knox,
will still be productive and still be beneficial.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
So I'm with it.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
But wide receiver, Anthony, it's time six wide receivers ghil
kerr key On Coleman, Joshua Palmer, Elijah Moore listed as
fourth in the order, and I don't think that was
by accident. Curtis Samuel and Tyrrell Shavers. I again originally
thought five. Once the suspensions and stuff happened and we
got to camp and there was uncertainty about the bottom

(26:40):
three of the room, I think thought, excuse me, six
was a lot more likely people thought Samuel might get
cut or traded. I was a big advocate over not
doing that because I thought that was a really bad idea.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Even if you're mad that Samuel gets banged up and
here you are with a room of.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Potential a high four, I don't know what it's going
to look like. I don't know if it needs to
be anything more than this with the way this offense
is constructed, But I mean, any surprises your thoughts on
this and the outlook for the room this upcoming season.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
I want to mention one more quick thing on tight ends,
Dawson Knox being so close with Josh Allen. I wonder
if that politically makes anything wonky for them cutting him.
They don't want to unseat Josh Allen. I think that's
one little thing to add. That's all I wanted to
say on that wide receiver. No, I don't think anything's
too crazy here. The only thing I'm really kind of
waiting to see is the health of everyone going forward

(27:37):
and what that means. Like, I mean, Palmer's been banged up,
Samuel's been banged up, more missed a couple of days,
but it's really been Samuel and Palmer that have both
been banged up, and we know Samuel has the injury
history throughout his career in the NFL and especially with
the Bills last year, and I didn't expect him to
go anywhere, like they weren't going to release him because

(27:58):
the dead cap hit and there, like the post June
first release gives you nothing. It gives you no savings,
and it gives you a huge dead cap, Like there's
no reason you do that, and then you could trade him,
and then the dead cap lessons significantly for twenty twenty five,
you save about seven mil. But who's taken on that
contract and who's trading for him? And you have to

(28:19):
attach a draft pick to get someone to take him?
Like it, it just became too muddy and murky.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
I didn't see it that it would have been Dallas
for Michael Parsons. That's christ.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Oh yeah, we didn't even talk about that.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
But I'm sorry at least in that like you got.
I mean, it's a horrible trade for Dallas, but you
got Kenny Clarke is sweet, and you got two first
Like I get it to it or not, I don't
get it, but okay, you were like you were gonna
have to trade Curtis Samuel and like a fifth or
a sixth to get like a seventh, yeah, or something
like that. Like it just I just didn't think the
math was gonna math properly. So I didn't see him

(28:51):
going anywhere. Plus, I think Joe Brady likes him. And
as annoying as his season was last year, he tried
to play through that toe injury and it made him
look like crap, and then everybody said he looked like crap,
and that's what the view of everyone has. It's like
they forgot when he started to get healthier, how good
he played against Kansas City in the regular season, the
speed that he showed against Denver in the playoffs. Like

(29:13):
as he got healthier, he got more effective. I don't
think he's ever going to be a high volume guy.
I think like his ceiling for games, especially in this offense,
is like four catches sixty yards, or if he breaks something,
it's like oh five for eighty or five for ninety
in a touchdown, or like three for sixty something like that.
He's never going to be a high volume true number
two or whatever. But I think he's a functional part.

(29:33):
If healthy, we'll see. But overall, I think the room
is fine. This is a wide receiver room that is
constructed to be part of an offense that uses condensed formations,
runs the football, ask their receivers to be blockers just
as much as they do pass catchers, and also ask
them to run a bunch of you know, quote Joe
Brady routes, which are those selfless routes that are designed

(29:54):
to poll coverage, poll defenders open things up for someone else.
So I think, given that this room misconstructed completely fine.
If you told me the bills are going to be
passed first and we're gonna go spread and we're trying
to chuck it thirty five to forty five times a game,
I think we have a bit of a problem with
this wide receiver room from a known quantity perspective. But

(30:14):
given how they're going to operate, which is largely gonna
be in lockstep of what they did last year, I
think this room is fine. And then if you get
any sort of improvement or uptick for Keon Coleman, then
the ceiling gets raised, the floor gets raised, even if
he stays with what he was last year. Palmer is
a nice addition Shakira is suite. You see what you

(30:37):
can get from Shavers. I like more. There's a chance
like this room could get scary in a heartbeat, but
I think on the whole everything will be fine. I'm
playing it from a median perspective and they'll be all right.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Tempered expectations, for sure, I think is completely reasonable, and
that's where I'm at. I do really like it, just
for again talking about what the ceiling of the room
could be.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
And when I evaluate any.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Position I do, I tend to get optimistic, I know,
but I can see a realistic path for a lot
of these things too, at the very least like work
to some degree when you talk about Keon Coleman's next
step or hey, you know, Elijah Moore and Josh Palmer
are creating a lot of separation consistently, and that's helping
this offense as a whole, because it's creating an upfield threat.

(31:19):
You know, Tyrrel Shaver's looks like a guy out there,
like a good one or at least an okay one.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
These are all.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Things that I think can happen this season. And I
like the way that they constructed the room because again,
this room given the nature of this offense is meant
to be complimentary. It would be awesome if Keon Coleman
hit like a T. Higgins esque ceiling this year. It'd
be awesome, and no one's saying we don't want that.
It'd be awesome if Joshua Palmer took a John Brown
like ascension it had twelve hundred yards, no one, there's

(31:46):
no one here that would say we don't want that.
But what I do think is when you talk about
realistic volume and target distribution within this offense, I'm a
fan of how many different skill sets you have in
this room, but skill sets that I think are not
just like totally rejection base, but like you've seen real
tangible results from a lot of these players in the NFL.
Joshua Palmer might have been like the third guy in LA,

(32:08):
but you could argue he was good enough to be
a two. He was just last in the pecking order
behind Keenan Allen, who at the time and in his prime,
was one of the best individual separators in the league,
and Mike Williams, who was a good boundary target consistently
if you could stay healthy. Josh Palmer, though still produced
in that offense and last year is still produced when
he was on the field. Elijah Moore has been like

(32:28):
an underwhelming guy his entire career, but I think there
is a caveat when you talk about him. You have
to talk about the New York Jets and what they brought,
which was nothing. I'm not trying to be a jerk,
but like that's literally what it was. Moore was taken
and there wasn't really much going on with the quarterback situation,
and he was snake bit and went to Cleveland, which
was debatably worse. I feel like Elijah Moore, the skill

(32:51):
set never left and you saw separation ability from him.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
You saw the ability to work against man and zone,
and I think that'll benefit them.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
And you know, for guys like Shakiri, I don't got
a worry about your care I trust him more than anyone.
But like Curtis Samuel even like I said this, like
the contracts, the contract we know what we paid for him,
and getting out of it would have required a million
levels of gymnastics to be able to pull off in
a way that was comfortable for the bills, or you
would have had to take your medicine a kin to
like a Stephan Diggs deal. But when it was Stefan Diggs,

(33:19):
you could eat a thirty one million dollar dead cap
hit because you got a second round pickback and you'll
rolling on the hook for it for a year. You're
not getting a second round pick back for Curtis Samuel
if you trade him, and you're just gonna save money.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
But what are you saving for? Like, what are you
saving for?

Speaker 1 (33:33):
I asked you that you could do a lot worse
with this guy being your wide receiver five in your room,
like you truly can. He's a proven player, a proven
vet with a skill set that this room needs as
many separators as possible when that was such a big
pain point.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
For the season last season. This team last season, Yes,
this team last season, not the season last season, but.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
So god, But I think the Yankee conversation earlier just
fried my brain in all.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's also it's also late. It's say I'm like, you're
your phone apart, I'm falling apart as well. That's fair,
I can I.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Was unhinged after nine thirty under review, But I like
the room. I think as far as prediction goes, Yeah,
once they kind of said that the bottom three was Murky.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
I was cool with Tyrrel Shavers.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
I think it has room to be really good, but
I'll temper my expectations and say it is fine. It
could be good to start, and I hope it reaches
that ceiling because pair that with the rushing attack the
Bills have and you have an absolute problem. And it's
just something that we'll have to see come into fruition.
But I think their schedule also, at least right now,
favors them to have this room be effective with some

(34:34):
of the defenses they'll be facing.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
So I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
But I think the final point I'll make here is
I'm really happy for Tyrrel Shavers, Like I can't stress
that enough. The guy worked his ass off undrafted free agent,
really great traits as far as like frame goes and
what he could have potentially brought.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
But you saw it, just like each year, a slow
ramp up.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
In training camp last season, we were kind of like, damn,
does he get that final spot for MBS, But MBS
beat him out because he was the VET. Now, even
if it is circ stance that led him here, he's here.
I hope he gets an opportunity, and I hope he
does well with that, I'm happy for the guy. And
any final thoughts on wide receiver.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
No, I think you.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Said it well, and I was at that practice on
that Sunday, I think mch no before the Yeah, no,
I don't remember what. Shavers went down and they carted
him off and everybody was crowding around him, and I
was like, oh, man, he's done. That sucks, and he
had a good day of practice. He had a good
couple of days before that that I had seen. So
it's cool to see him go from for myself at least,
like I was like, man, he's done, and then now

(35:31):
he's on the team and he had already he had
one of the best plays in the entire preseason, not
for the Bills, but it lost the league with that
catch against Tampa Bay. So yeah, good for him.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Oh yeah, I cut that, Cliff.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
I love that comment from your show yesterday where it
was just like best of the preseason, because yeah, I mean,
individual effort on that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
And you see all the things right, you see hand
eye coordination, but you see the length, the size, the
strength he's fending off the corner and then still able
to make that one hand to grab like there's a
lot of things that speak to his traits, just in
that play and everything else. We broke down show and
the release is in the long speed. Yeah, he's got
an interesting package of traits and operates with more technicality

(36:09):
in his stem than he gets credit for. I'm very
interested to see is he just me, is he the
sixth receiver and it's a special team's body, or is
he actually gonna get some burn.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
As a wide receiver?

Speaker 2 (36:20):
And if anybody goes down, which at some point Samuel
is gonna miss time. I would bet at some point
Josh Palmer miss his time. And then one problem with
yeah and fair and I was say, yeah, like Coleman
plays a very physical style, there's a chance he could
miss some time. Who knows, maybe Shakir's high ankle sprain
still lingers, like not even just out of Shaver's playing. Well,

(36:42):
there's a chance that dudes might drop and he's got
to step up. So I think one way or another,
he gets a shot this year, and I'm interested to
kind of see what he does with it. Hopefully it
comes in as positive of a circumstance as possible. No
Jenks fingers crossed.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
And knocking and on the topic of that rep too.
I know it's preseason and a lot of things can
I don't want to say he losted over, but you
can't take them too much at face value because like, oh, well,
this defense wasn't really doing anything crazy when it came
to disguising.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
It was very vanilla soft coverage.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
But I think, like those one on one reps, Yeah,
he's not going up against pats Ertan, but he's going
up against the corner who's right on his body and
he still makes it insane catch using his frame, using
his athleticism, Like I think that's something you take a
lot of value from. And to me, that was like
that just felt like an embodiment of like everything he's
worked for coming to Fruition to have a highlight catch
that probably sealed the deal of him.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
And if you are playing like and to that point,
like if you're playing second and third team dudes, you
want somebody who's gonna make your roster to make those
dudes look like second and thirteen dudes. And he did that,
not just on that catch, like throughout the preseason, like
there he was cooking dudes, and it's like, oh okay,
Like you want to see that, like Messi going to
the MLS, Like you want to see him like make
everybody look terrible, and he does that. You can tell

(37:51):
he just turns it on at times. And I'm not
saying Shavers is that, but the idea of like he's
not playing down to his competition. If he is playing
quote unquote inferior competition, he's making them look bad and
he's beating them decisively.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
You want to see that.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
I haven't kept up with it much, but when I
just saw the news of Messi going to the MLS,
I'm like, that's that's a literal like hydrogen bomb versus
coughing baby scenario where it's just like this guy's gonna
go in there and destroy people.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
He's still he's still he's my favorite athlete of all time.
It's between Red, it's between him and Ed Reid and.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well that's in Miami, that's the Miami and you.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
No, he's just he could still be playing in Europe
like he's still good. And yeah, I mean he came
on last night. He scored two goals last night out
of nowhere, and they he just it's just unreal. But yeah,
it's like if for him in the MLS. It's like
he's just going to the park on a Saturday to
play like pickup soccer.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
It's just just what it is.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
It's like, uh, I think the last time I had
you on the show, I prompted the whole like, it's
gotta feel really.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Good to play drums when you're really good at drumming.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
For MESSI, it's got to feel really good to just
destroy dudes in soccer when you're the literal out of
the sport.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
So I wanted I just like see I think he's
like coasting. I think he's like, eh, I'm past mid thirties.
I have like all the wealth in the world now
because the MLS gave me this crazy deal, which is
why I came here in the first place. I live
in Miami, my kids are happy. I'm just gonna chill.
And then you can see him be like, all right,
I've had enough, give me the ball and then he.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Just turns it off. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
It's like it's like playing with your food before you
eat it. Crazy thing to me is like he has
nothing left to accomplish, right, Like he got the World
Cup too, and I feel like that was the one
thing that he was chasing and now it's like yes, dude,
mid thirties and you have everything checked off, Like yes.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
For me, he was already the greatest soccer player of
all time, like what he could do. And I've also
talked to professional I've like talked to Marcelo from Real
Madrid when I lived in New York, and he confirmed
me he was the best player of all time. So
o case could you're a Borse fan, I'd already thought
Messi was the best player of all time. But yes,
the only thing that critics could say was, well, he
never won anything for Argentina. Now he has back to

(40:01):
back Copa Americas and in between that he won a
World Cup, and he took Argentina to a World Cup
before that and one man of the tournament. And the
only reason they lost is Gonzala Iguayine doesn't know what
a oh still mad about it, but you know everything.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
When they lost, right, and that was like was still there.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
They lost to Germany in extras uh, Mario Galtze chests
it in like with like three minutes left in the
second extra time, gets the ball from the from the
side and like chests it and left foots it before
it even touches the ground, buries it upper ninety for
the goal. But early on in that game, Messi puts
it on a plate to Gonzalo Iguayine, who's their striker,

(40:41):
and he just boots it because he's garbage for Argentina.
I shouldn't say garbage obviously a soccer player, but yeah,
like the only thing they could say to him was
all he hasn't done anything for Argentina back to back
Copa Americas and a World Cup in between, and it
wasn't like he was carried to those like he did
the carrying. Oh man. Yeah, I just get so much

(41:03):
people be like Rinaldo's better than Messy and like get
the out of here, like it's not even what are
we doing.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
I'm I'm the I'm not even a casual fan. I
wanted to get into it for so long, and I've
said this, I just like I don't know how to
properly get into the sport, and I feel like that's
a me problem. So I'm figuring it out. But you know,
it isn't Messi. The one pass. The one pass is
not Messy. The one pass is awesome and all of
you should sign up for it if you check the

(41:28):
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(41:48):
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Speaker 3 (41:57):
Now what are you waiting for? Seriously, what are you waiting for?
Do it now? Now we're gonna talk about offensive line.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Anthony nine in the room, your usual starting squad as
we expected for the death, I mean now at Anderson's
six man, but it's still called death. Cedric van Parrengranger
is off the potential ir so he was never on it.
But he's healthy, I guess somewhat, and he makes the roster.
And then Vandermark, which we expected, Chase Lunt your late

(42:22):
round offensive tackle with the crazy frame again probably by circumstance,
makes it an Aaron Kromer heat Check once again makes
the active roster, which I think is really cool. This
is a great unit the start. The top line is
one of the best in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
We all know it. We've seen it in action.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
They are powerful, they are menacing, and it really doesn't
matter what defensive line they go up against. At some
point in a game, they just simply will wear you down.
You saw it in the playoffs against Baltimore. You saw
it in the playoffs even against Kansas City before the
phantom fourth and one that we don't need to talk about,
and I mean the room, the construction, the projection.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
What do you think of it?

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, I think this is another one that is like
pretty cut and dry. They have a really good starting five.
Alex Anderson makes you a good top six, and then
you've got Cedric Van prang Grainger, who I think is
like your quote unquote seventh if Tyland Grabil was healthy,
I think he's your eighth. And that's probably him and
vandermart that you're kind of looking at. I thought Lunt

(43:23):
had a really rough preseason, but I feel like they
kind of wanted to keep dying and he's got some
positional flex. They put him at Garden that third game
to try and get him, to get him some different looks,
and he is a rookie. Vander Mark also had a
rough preseason as well, but he was able to cobble
some things together. I didn't think. I thought it was
gonna essentially be what we have but replace Lunt with

(43:46):
Grabel and that was going to be the nine offensive lineman.
But Grabil is still in concussion protocol, which is not good.
Like him still being in that. I don't like that
at all. But I think when he comes back, provided
he comes back fingers crossed, Lunt gets dropped and then
Grabel takes a spot, and we have the top nine
that we should have had. But yeah, you just want

(44:07):
this top five to stay healthy. They're diverse in the
run game. They can run multiple gap scheme concepts, they
can run zone, they can pass protect well, and like
we talked about earlier with the running backs, like they
do a lot of just straight up five man protection stuff.
And that's because McGovern can sort out stuff. Alan can
sort out in id stuff, and the old line picks
things up and if they fail, Alan has the ability

(44:28):
to make them right. Even when they're wrong. But this
is a quality unit up front that gives you a
lot of versatility and a good combination of athleticism, technicality
and physicality and mashing. And it's a good unit. They
just need them to stay healthy.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Yeah, completely agree with you. They've had crazy injury luck.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
We've seem to say this for the past two years,
but it is true, and I hope I continues.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
But it's a dynamic room, it's a powerful room. It's
one that didn't need much adjustment. All I can say
about it, You know, the Grabel point. I think that's
probably what would end up happening. I think they probably
try to keep on on the practice squad.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I don't know if another team would try to poach him,
just based off again the intangibles, but maybe feel like
he's a ball of clay that they can mold. But
the good news is the Eagles already got one of those,
so maybe they won't try to take.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
M one as well. That was that's not fair. And also.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Like I could go on a rant about him, I won't,
but just the frame and the way he plays is
just ridiculous. Like I don't understand that. I don't It's
just playing above your size. But when it comes to
this room, it's a great room. It's well the best
in the NFL. I think it's going to be one
of the best in the NFL. Again, I think as
long as they stay healthy, even if someone's got to
go down for a game or two. Though, like the
death you have in this room, if you get Greybell back,

(45:38):
or even if it's Onne, maybe, but really, like everyone else,
I think can filling quite well Alec Anderson with that
interior experience, but the six doll well is a huge plus.
SVPG is a bit of an unknown and live bullets,
you know, real game action. But I think having a
year where you've just gotten to be that kind of
backup center, learning behind the scenes. And also, if you
want to base it off how he was as a prospect,

(45:59):
was a soide center at Georgia. I think that this
is you could again for the death of this room.
You can do a lot worse as the sentence I've
kept saying, but you really can do way, way, way
worse than the death you have beyond this line. So
I'm happy with it, and I'm happy they kept it intact.
And even if Grabil comes back and it moves on
from one, I'll feel the same way. So that's the
nine there, Anthony pivoting the defense and defensive end again.

(46:22):
Michael Hoyt was the dee suspension. So you're five r Rousseau, Bosa,
epanez A, Solomon, Land and Jackson. Surprises thoughts, anything you
could give me on this room, I'm interested to hear.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
I thought Land and Jackson would really have to be
terrible to get cut, and he showed some flashes, so
I don't think he was going to go anywhere. Solomon
I thought showed some flashes as well. But I just
feel like if push came to shove and they had
to keep Jackson or Solomon, they would keep Jackson. And
so my thought is, if Hoyt is not suspended, Solomon

(46:59):
goes by the wayside, or maybe they keep six edges
and they somebody else from somewhere else or figure it out.
But I'm interested to see. I'm really just kind of
focused on what it looks like when hoy comes back.
I don't think there's any surprises with this group. I
also think what's gonna impact this group as well. At
some point Bosa is gonna get hurt so you just

(47:22):
need to be prepared for that. I think Javon Solomon
is probably the guy who gets dropped and goes down
to the practice squad. I think if they were just
to do that with Jackson, Jackson probably gets claimed. Like
I don't think Jackson goes down to the practice squad.
Yeah no, So.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Although just interjecting, I'm sorry, but Brandon Swinson did get
caught and he ended up going to the Pats practice squad.
I don't know if it would particularly be a lock.
And I think Swinson, I know he went in the fifth,
but like, that's a player that I thought had a
lot of stock too.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
I I didn't love Jackson because of his body type.
But I am one of the people I saw a
lot of hype for Swinson. I was not one of them.
I did not get the love I saw some He
did some nice things, but I knew some people they
had him as like a top five edge in the
class or who like all a day two lock, and
I just wasn't on that train. I think Jackson offers

(48:14):
more of a pro ready game, especially with how he
plays the run and the length, and so I think
some team would be like, oh yeah, you can be
our Edge four and just play the run and do
the nasty stuff and the gritty stuff. But again, you
never know. There's a chance they could cut him and
nobody claims him. He could go to the practice squad,
but I think that would more likely be Solomon. But
I'm interested to really just see what happens when Houyt
comes back. Do they keep six, do they keep five?

(48:35):
Does Hoyt coming back overlap with Bosa being out at
some point? And then we don't even have to answer
that question because Hoyight just replaces Bosa or you know,
he replaces the new fifth guy who they just called up.
Maybe it's like Andre Jones or something, because Bosa's been
out for a couple of weeks. Like, I think there's
some muddiness that exists with the edge grouping, but I

(48:55):
think the top six are pretty clearly shown. It's the
top five who made plus Hoyt who's suspended. It's just
a matter of do they keep six and if they're
all healthy, and if they are, do they keep all
six or you know, do they obviously look eutsewhere to
kind of bring Hoyight up to the roster.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, that'll be the best problem to have because it
means you have Joey Boza playing, you know, meaningful snaps
and he's not off. I would probably think, just given
the nature of the room and the investment, they'd want
to keep sex. And I think what they would wind
up doing is taking from, unfortunately the receiving corps. I
feel like the kiss of death for Tyrrell Shavers is
Joey Posa not getting hurt maybe, and that would be

(49:33):
so ironic and painful.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
But yeah, but even that that could happen at the
time where Hoyt comes up and maybe Samuel's out and
Samuel's on the ir or like you, there's so much
like injury muddiness at multiple spots where they could drop dudes, and.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
It's so it's impossible to predict. You don't really know.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
For as frequently injured as Joey Boza has been, maybe
it doesn't happen like it. There's always a possibility he
plays clean, or maybe it's not severe enough where he
has to miss time or not be on the active rosters.
So yeah, I don't really know where they would go
with that, And I think that's a dilemma that they've
just given the way this roster is constructed for all
the outside circumstances, I think they're just kind of in

(50:11):
an effet we'll figure it out later kind of thing,
like this is the best we could do right now.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
We'll worry about that when we get there.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
But I feel like if they're pulling from any well,
it's probably receiving core if they feel like they're getting
enough passing juice from a different position group or the
combination of position groups are running back and tight end
where they don't need the six and they can have
five and have their sixty. And honestly, in my opinion,
given how the offense is constructed, as much as I'm
happy for Shavers, love him, and I don't want this
to happen to the guy, I think it matters more

(50:38):
to have the six defensive end that it matters more
to have the six wide receiver.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
On this particular idea, you hate Tyroll Shavers?

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Wow? You know what? Because he is he supports Aaron Boone.
I'm just kidding. I wouldn't hate someone that they support
Aaron Boone.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
But let's be real anyways, as a tackle Actually, any
final thoughts on defensive end before we move on to defensive.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
No, we can move on to defensive tackle and wax
poetically about your boy.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
He made it, Yeah, he made it, he made it.
He's getting dropped.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
He's getting dropped when Ogin Joby comes back.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Oh God, listen, man.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I thought it was gonna work out, and maybe it
still could. But I'm not optimistic these days. It's just
it really sucks. Because when I watched him, and I
get it, like I'm an optimistic, wishful thinker, but I
just saw the vision. I was like, Okay, I get it. Like,
you could bring him in. You could try to set
him up as a one. Maybe it doesn't work, then
he could be a backup three to start. I like
the power he plays with team captain. I think there
was a lot of intangibles there that could contribute. I

(51:35):
think that is partially why he stayed on the roster.
But it just hasn't come into the way you'd hope
like it.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Just it just has not.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
And nowhere close, Anthony, nowhere close. But I think defensive
tackle is probably the most high variance positional group.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
I think you could probably make a case for corner two.
But I think when you're talking about what the.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Absolute four versus absolute ceiling is with this room you're
absolute for is?

Speaker 3 (52:01):
Oh No, TJ.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Sanders and Dion Walker are not ready, and despite occasional
pass rush flashes, they're getting destroyed in the run versus.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
Hey, they actually look pretty good and pretty stout.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
And even if these they occasionally do get blown off
the ball, they are just being so consistently productive and
how they're rushing that it's kind of like that dichotomy
of the Bills interior that we've seen, but to a
degree where it's not a detriment.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
And I think that could still be very good.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
And I think also, like in the case of Dion Walker,
if those flashes from preseason are real, I think the
pressure that is on day Kwon Jones lessons not because
you're not going to rely on him or use him,
but because you know now that there's a reliable piece
you could take Daiquon Jones off the field for if
it's a pass rush to that.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
But I don't know for there yet. I don't know
for there yet.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
I'm not saying we are as much as I think
that reality could happen if you consistently see it from him.
But again, I don't know anything about this group's really anything.
Yet it's so hard to predict because while the preseason
showed good, it also showed bad. But that's also what
the Bills kind of do in a way, not like
intentionally as far as they want them to be bad,

(53:04):
but like they just go for disruptors, and those disruptors
are going to recavoc and sometimes they go upfield and
you sneak by them, and it's just the nature of
the game with them. So I mean, I don't I
really have no idea what to predict from them. I'm
hoping for the best, but hoping. What do you think, Ann?

Speaker 2 (53:20):
I think your high variance comment is super spot on.
I think there is a world where Walker is a
game wrecker and Sanders is a game wrecker, and Ogen
Joby is a game wrecker, and you're like, sweet, like
we've got all these dudes on the inside with juice,
and then are one and two are at Oliver and
Daikwon Jones and this is awesome. I also think there's

(53:41):
a floor where Daikwon Jones looks long in the tooth
and Dion Walker and TJ. Sanders keep getting blown off
the ball, and Larry Ogunjobi keeps getting blown off the ball,
and they're not productive enough as pass rushers against starting
caliber offensive linemen to be effective. That's more so for
Sanders and you know Walker, We've seen Oga Jobey be

(54:03):
more productive against starting caliber alignment. But I do think
there is a world where the interior isn't getting to
the quarterback and they're getting blown off the ball against
the run, and maybe teams don't even really get to
the opportunity to have them rush the passer because they
keep running the ball down their throat to knocking them
off the ball. I think it's gonna be in somewhere

(54:24):
in between.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
I think T J.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Sanders is gonna win as a rusher inside. I'm encouraged
by Dion Walker's play, but I do think there's gonna
be moments where both of them get washed down or
blown off the ball and knock backwards. I think the
same thing is gonna happen to Larry ogun Joby, and
it's just gonna be a matter of, you know, can
you mitigate that by causing enough havoc and creating tackles

(54:46):
for loss or penetrating or getting sacks or getting turnovers
or the game script is in your favor and an
offense can't run the ball like it was last year
and the teams get away from it. I still am
concerned about the spine I think lost in the I mean,
we was on the first play of the game, Cole
Bishop's nice tackle against the Bucks, like Dean Walker's getting

(55:07):
washed down like Art and Dorny Williams like makes him right.
But I again, I was encouraged by Walker's play. But
to your point, I think you said it was spot on.
I think it is a high variance thing. I could
see this group being a strength and an aspect that
you know, it is getting profiled come playoff time, or
it's getting profiled in a negative way because they're getting

(55:30):
blown off the ball, and it's another offseason going into
next year where it's like, well they have to keep
getting defensive lineman because what they're doing isn't working. Blah
blah blah blah blah. So I'm very interested to see
how this group plays. I think the various variance comment
is spot.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
On, and and one outcome I could potentially see is
the four reaching like the four being kind of immediate,
but them kind of pulling themselves out of it. Halfway
through the year, not to their ceiling, but maybe to
that halfway point. As you mentioned, I think the reality is,
like I've said it and we all know it, Diane
Walker is a huge project, literally, and I think that

(56:04):
while you're gonna get flashes from him, he is going
to piss a lot of people off, just with the
fact that, again, for as strong as he is, for
as disruptive as he can be, that can lead him
into problems that can get him washed out. And that
can be an issue, especially when you're talking about fortifying
run defense, and I think for him and a guy
like TJ. Sanders, who again is another upfield penetrator, you
could eventually see them solidify their run defense. But when

(56:27):
you're talking about Week one against the Baltimore Ravens offensive
line that is extremely good and disruptive and can push you,
I'm not overly optimistic about it, And to be honest,
I think it might take a few weeks for them.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
To get comfortable. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's kind of
what I see.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
But I don't know if it would be a season
long four of like truly not that you're insinuating this,
but like a truly bottoming out group. I think it
would just be more likely that growing pains are going
to be seen from a young interior defensive line with
not really much cushion or fall back, unless my prayers
are answered and Dwanne Carter actually his sense in that
one tech role. But yeah, it's it's hard to really

(57:04):
predict them, as much as you can be bullish on
the skill set of some guys. You've tried to tell me.
I know you've tried to tell me for like two
years about him, and I'm trying to I'm trying to.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Say, it's just funny. No, I appreciate your hopping. I
just remembered in my head of we talked about it
last offseason because you were like after they drafted him,
you were pumped, and I remember saying something along the
lines of like, I think his ceiling is like a
defensive tackle three and a rotational guy said more likely,
I feel like he's a bottom of the end rotation
guy if that. And it's just funny to see how
bat I'm just ineffective. He was year one and I

(57:35):
know it's I'm sorry, it's just fun.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
It hurts.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
It's it's just again, like if job wasn't suspended. He's cut,
which is crazy. He was a third round pick last year.
He just has not done it. I've never seen somebody
be so ineffective, like to just not do anything, and
I want him to do stuff. And I also think too,
like he didn't get I don't think you had a

(57:59):
fair shot, like he should be more of a rotational three.
They had him add weight and try to moonlight as
a one and a three. I don't think they did
him any favors by asking to try and play both,
but at the end of the day, that's the cards
he was dealt, and he's instead of just letting him
be an effective three and not play one, they tried
to make him be able to play both, and they
just created a guy who's not effective at anything.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
And that was kind of a thing I saw last year,
where again I was totally fine with the idea of
giving him a shot there, but it just didn't work out.
But now, because you've seen the faults, it's almost like
I would hope that they'd commit to him being something
a little more.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Fail If you need to know anything about how they
see him, they took TJ. Sanders Night one or Night
two yeah, and they were like, yep, you know, we're
looking to have Dwayne Carter, you know, be more of
a one tech this year for him. It's like okay.
And then they took Walker and said the opposite thing
the next day about Carter, and I was like, Okay,
they have no plans for this dude, Like they don't care,
like literally, unless.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Their plan was contingent on getting Walker because Walker was
probably high on their board and they ended up making
that huge trade for him.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
I don't know if that's also true.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
You're not doing that. You're not signing Larry Ogunjobi and
getting Sanders and getting Walker if you believe in Dwayne Carter,
You're not having Dwayne Carter like oh yeah, we're probably
gonna play him more at one, and then the next
night you're like, yeah, we're probably gonna have him like
play both or maybe play three. Like it's just more
of like he's there.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
He's just there.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
When I laughed earlier, I'm not laughing at Dwayne Carter
for the play. I'm laughing at the fact that, like
if I had said nothing about him or just showed
no hype, he's probably the best interior defensive lineman in
our team right now. But because I got so hyped
over him, I actually willed the success out of him,
to the point where you came on the show and said,
I have never seen somebody be so ineffective. In all

(59:41):
your years of evaluating interior defensive lineman, you have never
seen somebody be as ineffective as this man. And that
is definitely my fault. So, mister Carter, I apologize. I
hope you haven't. It really is wild, like.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
I can't Like he had some flashes against the Texans,
but the majority of the year, I just he just
wasn't doing anything. And it's it is funny because I
remember with how much you loved him, and I remember
you'd be like, oh, I'm doing Carter, and I was
just like, like arrested development style like her, I was
like him, And but you know what, you weren't alone.
I knew a couple of people, like respected people who
evaluate who were like, I think he's a top three

(01:00:15):
defensive tackle in that class. I think he's top five,
or I think like he's so high on my board.
He's so disruptive. I just thought the run defense stuff
would be an issue, and it has been. And again
the one thing that he was more what he was
better at, they took away from him because they have
him playing heavier.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
So yeah, and that's problematic and it doesn't help him.
And I do think of Ogan Joby was not suspended,
it probably didn't bode well for him unless he had
a good Oh no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Not probably he's done. He has done nothing this offseason either,
Like he hasn't done anything in the preseason. He had
a nice run, nice shed and fit against the Bucks
where he made the tackle. But it's just been like
he's just on the ground a lot, like he stumbles
over himself, he gets put on the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
It's just it's ugly. That's an all time quote for me. Dude,
I'm not gonna that. That got me. I I it's
not just he's been ineffective. I have never seen someone
that's probably hyperbolic. I probably see more ineffective guys.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
It just hasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
I just watched him so much.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Oh my god, Why the hell is this episode two
hours long? It's because thirty minutes of it was me
laughing at that. Oh man, I'm rooting for him. I
keep saying it. It seems like a great dude, But
it really is, unfortunately rude.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
We had him on the film and he's smart. Yeah, Like,
it's just I don't know, man, it's just not painting out. Yeah,
it's just not painting out. Like it just you fucked
the will out of him. I guess with all your positivity.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
I was too positive. So I'm no longer I got
to stop talking about Jackson Halls then because I might
make him the worst blocking tight end you've ever watched, too,
But now that's he's legit, I hope. So I think
he is interior defensive line. Any final thoughts objectively beyond
DWave Carter that you want to share before we move
on the linebacker.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
No, I think once OGND Joe Be comes back, they
dropped Carter, provided Walker's still healthy and everybody's good and
that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Yet, all right, well, linebacker they keep five.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Bernard Malana will be your starting duo Dorian Williams and
Joe Andreeson who I don't think anyone doubted he'd make
the roster this year, which was pretty cool to see
him go from like fringe fifty three last season to like, oh,
he's like your four at this point, especially with Balen
Spectra gone and then they four go Ufashio, who I
thought would actually stay on the roster because the special teams,
even if he wasn't great at it, just having a body,

(01:02:27):
he goes. And now they have Shaq Thompson, the Savyvett
at the back end of the room. And I like
this room a lot. I know Dorian Williams and Joe
Andreeson still have coverage issues, but they're deaf.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
They're your backups to your starters that I think are
to probably when they're healthy if they could stay on
the field. One of the finest linebacking duos in the
NFL in my eyes. And again, you could do a
lot worse than having this room for death, including Shad Thompson.
Shaq Thompson, who I think, again report McDermott experience in
the league passed his prime, but not weight of talent

(01:03:00):
or juice. It's a room I like, And what do
you think about it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Yeah? I my big thing I thought they'd keep five.
My big question was really just who the fifth would be.
And I think you can get away with Shaq Thompson
because Andreson and Dorian are gonna play special teams reps.
Shack is good for the room. You know, injury concerns,
but he's a depth guy, so you don't have to
maybe worry about that as much. And you know, for

(01:03:26):
as much as the injuries kind of sapped him of everything,
I mean, he just it looked like he was on
his last legs last year. But he made some plays
in camp but then got hurt. So I didn't know
what the injury status was. I didn't know if they'd
lean into you do they lean in Jimmy Charlow as
you know, the fifth linebacker because he's got he's gonna
be really a special teamer, and then you kind of

(01:03:46):
go from there. So I really thought it just came
down to how much they valued special teams or where
they found other special teamers versus not having one at
linebacker all the way through, because again Dorian and Andresent
are gonna be core special teamers for you. But I
think this group is sound and solid. I'm interested to
see just if they can stay healthy. I think to
your point, malonal and Bernard could be a really great dual,

(01:04:07):
especially like in camp Man and even in the preseason,
we saw a bit like Matt Malonald looks like Matt Milano,
and that means like he looks like an All Pro linebacker,
Like that's nasty. If you're putting that next to Trell Bernard,
like that's really exciting. If they can stay healthy, that's cool.
If not, that means more time on task for Dorrian Williams,
which could also potentially be good for the future because

(01:04:29):
Matt Malone might not be back next year. Like, yeah,
just kind of see what the room looks like. But
I really I thought the top four was a lock.
I didn't think anything was too surprising. It was just
a matter of who the fifth was gonna be and
what role we're going to have for it, And it
went to Shaq Thompson, who's probably gonna be more likely
to play actual defensive reps than special team stuff. Or
maybe he will here and there, but I think he's

(01:04:49):
more just get that room right, smart dude, McDermott guy,
system guy, and kind of just go and operate from there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
There's a lot to like when you just talk about
again rapport with McDermott. But also so I think that
if Milano or Bernard had to go down, I'm not
one hundred percent comfortable, but I like the idea of
one game or a few reps of Joe Andrees and
subbing it for Bernard or Dorian Williams playing that off
the ball Alano roll. And I think Dorian Williams is
again for the coverage laps as he has.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
I still really like his run defense.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
I still like how fast he could fly to the
ball when he recognizes and attacks.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
He's extremely good. It's just a matter of the processing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
So again, to have these guys playing a rotational role,
to have these guys playing a backup role, that's fine,
and that's what you expect from death players, right they
if he was good enough to be a starter, he'd
probably be starting. And I feel like that gets lost
on people because when you talk about like, oh my god,
like when we get to the corner, like we're really
gonna have like JaMarcus Ingram b CB twof Trey, why
can't go like he sucks? It's like he's your cornerback five,
Like this is the hand you've been dealt, Like there's

(01:05:48):
a reason they're not top of the chart, Like loo's
the plot of this entirely so for deaf purposes, I
really like it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:55):
I'm just gonna say.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
This though, and I don't even mean this to like
kick salt in the wounder or anything like that, but
I've been a believer that, Like, as the time's gone on,
I still have zero idea why they didn't go for
Sean Dolach in the draft, Like I, okay, all right,
well back off of it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
No, you can do it. I've just seen so many
people go like, oh, like, can't believe the Bills didn't
take Everybody passed on Dolac like they Why do the
Bills have to have taken him? Because he went to
UB and because they identified andreason last year and they
took andresen mad teams. Everybody passed on him. When did
to let go like the seventh round?

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Uh? No, he was undrafted?

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Oh they gave he was undrafted, Like so everybody passed
on him. Yeah, So why are we doing this dance?
I can't believe the Bills, Oh they should have identified him. Yeah,
because U B is pouring out super good prospects all
the time. Name me three good prospects that have come
from you B. And you can't say Khalil Mack.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
Oh you can't say Khalil Mack. Okay, yeah, I no, Okay, cool?

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
I Like, I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful,
but like, why did they have to take him because
he went to UB? Like why like they have to
keep any I I on him? Like I've seen so
many people dragging the bills for not taking Dolac, drag
all the other teams because everybody passed on him, Like
what are we doing?

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
It was? He was a UDFA. Sorry, I was trying
to find it. My only thing about it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
No, like I said, I would have loved to have
gone for him, just because I think the UB component
matters for the bill, specifically because it's right in your
backyard and even if even if they haven't consistently produced
football school. No, it's not what I'm getting at, though,
is Sean Dolac.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
I mean, first, like living down the street from a
restaurant that makes Italian food, but the Italian food sucks,
so it's like, oh, why don't you get ravioli all
the time because the place doesn't make good food, But
I'm not gonna go there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
It is it is quite hard to fuck up ravioli.
But what I'm getting at different.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Than living in like New York and being like, oh
I got this Italian spot down the road here in Brooklyn.
That's different than being like, oh yeah, I live in
Iowa and there's an Italian restaurant down the road. Like,
it's not the same thing. You don't down the street
from Ohio State. It's U be no disrespect, no.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
And I understand that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
The point I was trying to make is I think
the Bills have tapped into that well with certain players
on their roster that have actually gotten meaningful snaps. I
am not saying that Sean Dolac, if they brought him in,
was guaranteed to be the second coming of Christ in
your linebacker room, not insinuating that as much as I
felt like it was a zero risk move to potentially
shore up the death in your room with the player that,

(01:08:26):
while he did go to UB did have plenty of
accolades and was getting a ton of pre draft buzz
and praise from several people, so much not.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Just people, so many accolades and so much buzz that
nobody drafted him.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
But right, but it's still a player that I feel like,
when you talk about a seventh round picker, if you
talk about making the attempt in UDFA, I would have
just liked to have seen it. That's all I'm getting at.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
I am not saying fair, you've done nothing wrong. I've
just seen so many comments of like they idiots can't
believe they didn't take Dolac, like and why because Arcus
Ingram when do you be? And because cam Lewis and
jo Andrieson like and those guys have all been fine,
Like good for them, that's super cool, But like I

(01:09:08):
feel like people acted like the Bills committed some grave
sin because they didn't take some linebacker that nobody took.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Yeah, and I think the ub component of it is
why people are so bent on it, because it almost
felt like they were guaranteed. It was almost like the
prophecy because they've done it with three players on their
own activities.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Do we know? Like maybe they reached out and were like, hey, man,
do you want to sign here?

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Maybe he was like I did say that too. I
did say that too.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
And the reason I think what actually happened this is
me purely speculating. I think they did, but La had
a better path for him to actually start, and that's
why I think he chose it, or just even more
money offered, like that would be my best because I
have a hard time believing that Sean McDermott wouldn't have
at least or Brandon being Sean McDermott, the WHO group
wouldn't have at least like considered it, like, wouldn't have

(01:09:57):
just in any capacity to entertain the idea of maybe
trying to get this guy to come in for camp,
like just because again where he plays, how close a
proximity he is, the idea of like, well, he could come,
use the facilities, he could come do all this stuff.
But then you talk about the Rams who had kind
of a bakes. I would say probably two vacancies honestly
that he could compete for in their room, and it

(01:10:18):
probably made way more sense. So that part of it.
I totally get a multitude of things.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Yeah, he grew up in Buffalo, he ended up going
to you, But maybe he's like, you know what, I
want to go somewhere different in my life. I want
to go to Cali.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
I want to stay in their hometown. I don't live
in my hometown. It could have been a multitude of things.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
I just and I'm not saying like he's bad. I
didn't watch his tape in college, but everybody and their
mother who kept yelling like and again, it's it wasn't like,
oh I wish the Bills would take a look at
Sean Dolac or man, I'm bothered, but okay, people were
like vehemently dragging the Bills because the Bills did what
every other team in the NFL did, which was not

(01:10:57):
draft him, and so the Rams got him. But that
means thirty one other teams didn't make a strong enough
offer to get him or they could have, and he
chose La, Like it's just it's just crazy finding something
to get so upset about. Like I'm not saying you are,
but I'm just I'm so annoyed by a guy I
never really watched. Because everybody is like, oh, okay, this
is this they suck, this is crazy, can't believe or

(01:11:20):
even again, Andreason has a couple you know, bad coverage
reps against the Bears and everybody, So he could have
had Sean Dolaz should.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
Have gotten Sean dol a year after.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Yes, you were seeing the same shit last year after,
Andreason balled out against Pitt and it was like, oh,
you know what, Andreason should start like what are we doing?

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Why are we always going to be a hyper reactionary side.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
And I really mean it when I say I would
have just liked to have seen them if if it
was that they made an attempt an undrafted free agency
and he went somewhere else because there was a better opportunity.
That's fine, I get it. I just thought taking the
fire and like the seventh round wasn't the worst idea.
And I would have liked I would have liked the
idea of him his death potentially.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
That's where I was coming from. I did not failure.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
I don't disagree with you at all, Like I would
have been completely fine with it. I just I don't
disagree with you at all. I just think it. Like again,
everything I'm saying is now what you said. It's just yeah,
like when they didn't I saw the same thing on
draft day when they didn't take up talk. Can't believe
they didn't use their seventh on Dolak he's right there.
Oh this is such a mistake. What are they doing?

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
And he's getting mentioned in the fifth I remember people
like when I did that six hour stream, I think
fifth round people were like, ooh they might they could
they I saw trade up for Dolac, and I was like, well,
I don't know what the hell is value is. I
don't know if he would go at this point or not,
Like I didn't know what it was at the time,
and it ended up being.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
All I know is that if you liked him, he
probably would have bottomed out, just like Dwayne Carter.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
That's true. But yeah, you know what if I championed him.
You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
Now I gotta be careful talking about another player that
every team passed on besides the Panthers, which is Jalen Coker,
because I've been singing as praises, I hope he doesn't suck,
but no, he can't suck. Okay, we're all coked up, baby,
we're all coked up. And this is not a segue
at always to say speaking of coked up. But I
don't think anyone of the defensive back rooms coked up.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
I guess if you want to make a joke about
Tredevious White, maybe yeah, there we go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
You could have been like, oh, it's speak up and
speaking away exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
There it is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
We'll work on that next episode at but for now
we're gonna talk about this room.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
Can't believe we talked about Sean Dolac for like almost.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
That's my fault.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Dwayne Carter and Sean Dolac took up twenty minutes of
this episode. Everybody, I should shoul probably timestamp with like
caution signs. It's like, skip this section if you want
to get back to productive conversation because we're randy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
But defense, someone's gonna be upset to me, someone's gonna
get in the comments. Yeah, that they're gonna be They're
gonna be mad that I pushed back against that. And
yet I don't think Dolac's bad. I would have been
fine if they took them in the seventh round or
whenever they got them as UDFA. I just think it's
crazy to like drag the franchise because they didn't take
this ub guy.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
Sorry, defensive back room Christians, I just I just I
don't know. I don't know. I think my brain's broken.
I'm still also giggling about the the He's the most ineffective.
It's so really funny.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
But Christian Beth, Richard Avius White, Dorian Strong, Jermarcus Ingram,
Taron Johnson, Can Lewis, and Brandon Codryton probably exclusively for
return duty. So I'm gonna just exclude him from dB
conversation because the only time he's getting on the field
is if you need him in a pinch. I hope
to God that never happens. Yeah, I think it's another
high variance room. I personally wouldn't describe it as as

(01:14:33):
high variance as the interior defensive line. I think there's
a path where it could be really really good when
Harrison's off the IR if he lives up to that potential.
I think there's a path where benfordge or Guy White
is playing, either playing her or just not as effective
because he's older. The Oriane Strong is ready yet in
JaMarcus Ingram is fine, but not like an elite player,
and I think it's really hard to tell what it

(01:14:54):
could be. I think that we are just gonna have
to see it get healthy. We're gonna have to see
what happens with Tree White as far as his injury,
which wasn't IR inducing but is still very vague with
Brandon being and Sean McDermott for some reason. So give
me your thoughts on this corner room, specifically before we
move on to safeties.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Benford sweet, I want to see Harriston get healthy. I
think Trey's CB two. I think Trey was already trending
to be CB two even before Harston got hurt. But
we'll see what the regular season brings. I like the
room overall. If Trey is unable to go in Week one,
I watch Remarcus Ingram starting especially, I would vote for

(01:15:33):
him regardless of who the opponent was. I would take
him over you know, Dorian Strong and whoever else is
like eligible there. But again, we kind of went through
it and we kind of know what that room looks like.
I just think given Ingram's experience, his physicality, he's better
in coverage and people give him credit for it, even
though he's not some like coverage savant. But his ability
to play the run as a forced player and as

(01:15:54):
a tackler is going to matter a lot against Baltimore.
And I like the idea of having a team in
week one that wants to come in your house and
punch you in the mouth. I like having somebody like
if the wolves are coming at the door, like you
get yourself a wolf and JaMarcus Ingram is a wolf,
and like give me and Ingram as your corners, like
you're not running out there, like they are going to

(01:16:16):
chop down whoever comes their way. They're going to punch
through wide receiver's faces, they'll press get physical. So my
vote would be for JaMarcus Ingram if Trey misses any time.
But to your point, overall on the room like long term,
I think it's you're spot on. You know, they think
that variance exists. Where I don't know is CB two
like a weakness. I also don't think Dorian Strong's ready,

(01:16:39):
especially from a run fit standpoint. He was really sloppy
in the scrimmage and in the preseason, just like missing
on crack for places and fitting off as the unblocked
defender on duo and then some coverage stuff that I
think is a little worrisome. But you know, we'll see
kind of what he can be. I think a lot
of his ceiling is capp because the athleticism piece, But
again we'll see if you can use technique and experience

(01:17:01):
to kind of mitigate that a bit. And I think
cam Lewis gives you a lot of flexibility. I think
he's your backup Nickel. I also think he might be
safety three, even though he's not listed as a safety,
And I would also vote for that, I'm not just
saying because I want it, I'd say I think I
might actually believe that, but I think it's a good room.

(01:17:21):
But yeah, Like to your point, you essentially have you know,
four outside corners in Benford, Trey, Ingram and Strong, and
then you've got Tarn and Cam which are both you know,
Nickel exclusive, and then you've got Conderton who does not count.
I'm interested to see when Trey comes back. I just
don't feel like Trey's gonna play in week one, like
he would have to be one hundred percent healthy because

(01:17:43):
they're not gonna rush him back from anything. And I
don't think if it's the playoffs, I think he plays,
but it's week one against the team that is going
to target him and or run at him. I just
think it's a recipe for him to get hurt worse
if he's playing banged up, and there's no reason to
do that in week one. So I think Trey is
probably out for week one, but again he could be
ready for week two or three. Them not putting it

(01:18:05):
on the IR means he can come back before week four,
not just like logistically but in actuality from a health standpoint.
So my vote would be JaMarcus Ingram early on and
roll with the nastiness and go from there.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
I would be more comfortable if White was not one
hundred percent to let him sit out Week one. I
just don't think there's really any need to force him
out there. Yes, it's the Ravens. Yes, that game means
a lot just from the rivalry standpoint that seems to
have developed over the past couple of years. But it's
dumb to have a.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
Guy who is older as a corner that has a
pretty substantial injury history at this point to be rushed
back out into a game that you're talking is already
going to be pretty pretty crazy just because of the
Week one component as it is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
So I'm okay if he doesn't play, and I think
run defense to me, it's not that it matters more
than past coverage, of course not, but I think when
you're playing the Ravens, there's so much more emphasis on that,
where if I have a sound run defender on my
bench that you know typically comes in in rotation, but
I think he could play it really well in this game.
In the past coverage is what it is. Not the
best not the worst. I'd roll that die with him

(01:19:11):
and let him go because ultimately, if you're having him
crash down from death, I feel comfortable with that when
you got guys like Derrick Henry and you know, if
you're talking exclusively running Justice Hill and potentially Keaton Mitchell,
who I think will probably end up getting some reps,
and Keaton Mitchell the Forgotten Man, who I'm terrified of.
I think that man's ceiling is really high and and
knee injury is the only reason that we didn't see

(01:19:33):
more of him and potentially why he wasn't the Ravens
one B or one A even he is a really
tough tackle and having a guy with short tackling or
at the least could be in his spot to slow
him down. As someone that I am a fan of
and would be happy to start at one hundred percent
season long prediction or prediction projection.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
I mean you get one hundred percent of Trey White.
He looked good in camp. He looked like a shore
up CB two.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
The luxury you have of Trey White being your CB
two while rookie is working in is really nice. And
I love the way that constructed the room at full health.
I hope they see that full health because if they do.
While I do think it's hy variance, I think that
it can be a very good or at the least
a very stable room, which they've needed that stable stability
at CB two. You know, after Rassell Douglass came in

(01:20:17):
and showed you the flashes of what that can look
like with Christian Bedford, only to take a step back
that following year. It'd be really nice to have some
assurance from not just Trey White, but also potentially Max
Harriston working in back from his injury and his rookie
season and the death you have in this room. Again,
like JaMarcus Ingram we just talked about, Dorian Strong is
a rookie. He's figuring it out. I don't think there's
gonna be a lot of pressure knock on wood on

(01:20:38):
him right away to come in and make immediate impact,
as much as it's like late game occasional rotation and
just trying to get your you know, I guess your
late round draft pick experience as best as you can,
which is hopefully not in an absolute pinch. But I
like the player, I like the prospect. I like what
he can bring to the table. If that's actually realized,
we'll have to see. And for the Nickel, there's no

(01:20:59):
questioning to him Johnson, he's going to play. He's going
to hit himself really hard and come off the field
and scare everybody, then come back on the field to
play later.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
It's like, uh, I can't even I'm trying to think
of what that reminds me of. But I'm yeah, reminds
me of Sean Dolac and Dwane Carter.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Have to worry about CV two if they drafted Sean Dolac.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
Yeah, that's total true.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
He can put another one.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
Randon Condrickton is never going to see the field, hopefully,
But as a returner, I loved him as a returner.
I think he I didn't think it was a bad
thing to bring in like a channel or other players
to compete. But I think Condrickton did well enough in
the role where it's justified to keep him. Just stay healthy,
and you gotta know, you know who's a great returner,
who's a great returner, who's a great returner.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
I'm curious.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Moving on to safety unless you have any final thoughts
on corner.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
No, I just think now I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
A new safety room four on the roster unless you
want to can't Lewis count it both ways, but it's
four on the roster. Taylor Rapp, Cole Bishop, Demore Hamlin,
Jordan Hancock another variance room. Although what I will say
is I think you know what you get with Taylor
Rapp and Damorrow Hamlin, at least if it does have
to be that. I like Jordan Hancock in the preseason,
not as a starter, but I liked what he could

(01:22:18):
become and I think that he made some good plays
in addition to the plays where he was out of place,
fed up and coverage wasn't the greatest run defense. I
think there's a lot of work to be done, and
I think Sean McDermott saying that proves that they had
a very large vision in mind for Hancock, where I
feel like this guy will become not even just a
death safety but really Swiss Army defensive player in general,

(01:22:39):
kind of like a Can Lewis. But I think maybe
more hats we'll have to see. But it's your starting
tandem of Taylor rap and Cole Bishop that I think
has the most questions, and it's cold Bishop that gives
you the most questions. You just did a whole episode
on this hand, so I'll defer back to you. But
I mean personal feelings, it's uncertain. I think Cold Bishop
towards the back half of the year was playing better
when he got more reps. It's really just health being

(01:23:00):
my biggest concern. But let's say Bishop does stay healthy.
Let's say, and it is a big if given his
two training camps so far, Let's say he does. What
is your level of confidence and Cold Bishop right now
for week one?

Speaker 3 (01:23:12):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
It's what's tough for me with it is my confidence
in him is tied to him being in a tandem
with Taylor Rap and that is what gives me the
most pause or cause for concern. So sorry, I was
trying to fight it so hard, and then I tried

(01:23:35):
to couldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:23:36):
Get the new man.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Wouldn't sneeze like that if they got Sean dola.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
Yeah, I think just give me the new thing. By
the way, okay, all right, I've.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
Been thinking of so many stupid jokes in my head
of everything, even like as you were talking, I was like, man,
I'm hungry, and then I was like, Sean Dolac wouldn't
be younger?

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
Right now.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
My my worries with Bishop are the pairing with Rap,
and I've talked about it with you on the show.
I've talked about it in Disguy's coverage, talking about in.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
The film room.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
Like I just I don't think either of them are
ideal to play post safety or single high right now.
Although Bishop, you know, showed some positive things in the preseason,
I broke a lot of that down in the film
room or in the film episode I did a disguised
coverage that were released earlier tonight. But I think he's
best suited for a down safety in and around the

(01:24:26):
box big nickel apex off ball man up on tight
ends and running backs, plays like a robber or as
a buzz safety hook curls, flats, all that kind of stuff.
That's also what Taylor Rap is best at. Taylor Rap
is good processing from depth in from a coverage standpoint,
but he doesn't have the range and athleticism. Bishop from
a testing standpoint has the athleticism in the range. I

(01:24:49):
don't think he plays as fast as the testing numbers indicate,
but regardless of that, it doesn't have the processing and
the anticipation and the reading of the game from depth.
So it's just like this weird grouping where like, I'm
fine with each guy individually, but I don't like the pairing.
I think both Bishop and Rap would be better suited
to be playing with more of like a center fielder

(01:25:10):
and ballhawk capable type of dude, not a just true
coverage safety, but someone who gives you more range and
who is more effective from a coverage standpoint the deeper
they get and the further they get from the line
of scrimmage. But you know, I mean they've had the
Bills have had so much success coaching dudes up in
the secondary, at corner, at safety in a variety of ways.
They get the most blood out of those stones, and

(01:25:33):
there's a lot of blood and cold. Bishop, with the
traits that he has and the size and the combination
of everything. Again, I don't think he plays as fast
as the testing numbers indicate. I say that as a
person who studied him on tape and saw him in
person at the Senior Bowl. When he tested, I was
like WHOA. And it wasn't like wow, I need to
go back and watch. I was like, Wow, that doesn't
make sense. Somebody like screw up the handheld watch but

(01:25:57):
he is athletic.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
He is big.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
I like the combo in and around the box, but
that means rap has to play deeper. There's just a
lot of schematic questions I have, and I just hope
they both stay healthy because I'm tired of de mar
Hammlon no disrespect, Like I think he just is what
he is, which is a safety three I think, or
safety four and maybe more for me. I think he's

(01:26:19):
a high floor, low ceiling type of guy. But now
it seems like the floor is bottoming out a little bit,
like he's missing tackles. He looked, I'm thinking even you
know week one of the Giants game where that pass
gets completed and the receiver gives a little shimmy by
the sideline and Hamlin stops his feet for two seconds
and just gets blown.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
That was that the rep where he put his arm out,
but like didn't actually try to tackle. It was almost
just like he was doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
Yeah kind of, and like so the receiver catches on
the drag route, and like the Giants are going from
left to right, the receiver catches on a drag route,
goes up the sideline and just does one of these
to Hamlin. And Hamlin stops and like and it's just gone.
It looks like he's moving in quick. Sanders there was something.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
Like uncharacter like I don't want to say he's misstackles whatever,
but like uncharacteristically bad, almost like he was holding back.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
He missed.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
I missed that he missed that tackle deep on the
touchdown that Bishop got burned on against the Bears. Yeah,
he I forget what game it was where he blitzes
in and Andresen has the running back lined up, but
Hamlin essentially like gets in and Dreesen's way and hits
Andreasen and they collide and nobody makes the play and
Sanders has to run it down the line. Like yeah, yeah,
he's usually been a sure tackler, but yeah, like the

(01:27:27):
the floor is kind of bottoming out a little bit,
and he doesn't offer much from a coverage standpoint. He
doesn't really make I know these people, he's got some interceptions.
He's not playing with anticipation, he's not reading route distributions
making plays on the ball.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Like.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
He plays responsibly and reliably, and sometimes he'll be in
the right spot at the right time, which again is
a kudos to him. I don't want to make that
sound like it's a huge negative, but I just don't
want him to be a regular starter, I feel, and
I I fear that could happen, like if Bishop struggles
or if he gets hurt or Rap gets hurt. I
get it if Hamlin has to come in for a
gamer too, but like, I just don't want to see

(01:28:01):
any more stretch of DeMar Hamlet. And and if it's
like Hamlin and Rap, you have the most unathletic safety
combination in the league, like the least rangiest safety tandem
in the league, if it's Wrap and Hamlet, and that
scares me a little bit. But again, I think cam
Lewis is safety three, or I hope he is. I
like Jordan Hancock, I think you nail it. Though he
needs to work on the details and the processing piece.

(01:28:23):
But the athleticism is there, the juice is there, the
versatility is there.

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
I'm encouraged. Maybe he's the starting safety next year. I
like that he can learn from Taylor Rap and Jordan
Poyer and we'll see what he can become.

Speaker 1 (01:28:34):
Yeah, hopefully he learns the good components of safety from
Taylor Rap and not the heat seeking missile even on
your own teammates and practice component which I'm only joking
because I know Taylor Rap isn't doing that intentionally. I
just think it's funny how like I've defended him as like, no,
he just plays hard and it's practice, but then it
keeps happening, and I'm like, it's getting harder to defend you. Taylor,
please stop hurting people. We can do this to the

(01:28:56):
other team, we can't do it to us. But to
go back onto the conversation, yeah, I'm I mean, when
it comes to mar Hamlin, I think not that anything
you said was invalid, because it's totally true, it's spot on,
but I think it was also like the conversation to
demr Hamlin is just centered around the fact that he
somehow keeps ending up in this position when no one
thinks he no one wants him to. But also like
I don't even think it's expected for him too, and

(01:29:17):
last season, I don't think he was ever anticipated to
be safety too. I think it was always planned to
be rapping Bishop and then or at the very least
anticipated they wanted it to be rapping Bishop when camp started,
and then of course Bishop gets hurt. They had Mike Edwards,
he also got hurt, and it's like, hey, it's me,
I'm here, still here, let's do this. And then he
got the most starting reps and they didn't want to
just rupt the tandem. He comes backed out here he

(01:29:40):
is and he plays a whole season, and he was
always a death safety. Like when they brought him on,
they still had Poyer and Hyde Hyde got hurt, so
Hammond was starting and like he was a second year player,
essentially getting meaningful snaps for the first time. Like it's
just funny to me because people hate this man, like
they hate this man, and the way they talk about

(01:30:00):
him is as if he was the worst player, the
most ineffective player they've ever watched in their entire It's
not like he's playing Carter. But he's no Sean Dolac.
No one could be Sean do not even Sean Dolac.
But DeMar Hamlin. I feel like you could say, you know,
like your take, the way you've described it to me

(01:30:21):
perfectly encapsulates it. He's a perfectly like average fine safety,
great to have in a pinch, not someone you want starting.

Speaker 3 (01:30:28):
But god damn, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
Think he's not. I don't think he's an average safety.
I think I do think he's below average.

Speaker 3 (01:30:33):
Below average. Okay, the point, the point I'm trying to
make is I don't think he's the worst player in
the NFL.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
But I also would not like him to start it.
And I think the nuance in that conversation can happen.
But I just the vich real old man gets. I
think it's just insane.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
It's crazy. I think, much like especially with where the Turn,
like he started right and made a couple of plays
near the line of scrimmage and blitzing, and people were
blowing him up like he's the next big thing. People
were talking about him like he's great, he's so remember
that and yeah, and I remember being like, no, he's not,

(01:31:08):
Like what are we doing? Like what are you talking about?
And then the Cincinnati game happens and he becomes this
like hero and beacon and to watch that go from
there to people be like, well, if he hadn't have
died on the field, he wouldn't even be on this rock.
It's just so much like The Turn and the Journey,

(01:31:30):
and yeah, it's crazy, how much to your point, Yeah,
people talk about him like he's the worst player in
Bill's history and is the worst football player in football.
And I don't think that's the case. Again, I don't
want him starting. I do think he's he's a deap guy.
I think I think at this point now he might
even be more of safety four than safety three. But
either way, like he's not this horrible, especially in the

(01:31:52):
Bill system, Like he's more than functional in the Bill system.
But yeah, it's it's just crazy, Like people were buying
his merchant, his jersey, yeah, and now people.

Speaker 3 (01:32:02):
Making signs yeah. Yeah. It drives me crazy, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Like it's one thing to like to evaluate him and
say I'm not a big fan of his play, and
another thing that think he's the worst player ever. And
then to make the comments about him dying on the
field is ridiculous like that that takes it a stat
too far, and that always makes me angry. I think,
like talking about the room, I think now he'd probably
be considered safety four just for the fact that you
brought in a guy who has substantially better athleticism and
even if he hasn't gotten to the point of like

(01:32:28):
recognition and processing, that you feel comfortable with giving him
a shore fire consistent role as like your safety two
or you know, safety three, Like you know that that
can happen a lot easier than someone who has those
same lapses and like again coverage tackling, but also doesn't
have the athleticism to maybe make up for some of
those mistakes.

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
So that's why I definitely feel that.

Speaker 1 (01:32:47):
But when it comes to the starting tandem, yeah, Cole Bishop,
I mean Taylor Rap, I feel like, again we know
what he is, and that's just like an absolute heat
seeking missile to a fault that points not just for
hitting his own teammates, but even over pursuit, over aggression
or just occasional app and coverage deep. I think with
Cole Bishop, the cell is, well, he's an athletic player
and you could probably mold him into becoming one of

(01:33:07):
those post safeties. And given Bobby Babbitt's comments about safeties
in general, just a couple of days ago that I
think Salcopaccio asked him the question about, well, do you
believe in the strong or free or whatever to paraphrase it. It
was like a very interesting answer from him. But his
idea is that these guys can play both. They can
play deep, they can play close to the line that
they have the versatility to do it. And for Bishop,

(01:33:27):
I think Bishop could be the better of the two
just for the fact that, even if it's not all
there mentally, if he could compensate for athleticism and then
eventually mold into that, that'd be great. But my question
is how long does that take to happen and can
he stay on the field to see it through, because.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
We've really not really the past two seasons.

Speaker 1 (01:33:46):
I mean, key development in training camp has been taken
away from him, and I feel like his learning has
had to have been expedited at this point because of
the fact that those early injuries hit him. So stay
on the field, and I think if he can continue
to build report rapine to just you know, be aware
and know where he's got to be on any given
moment without being sidelined or inhibited by anything, I think

(01:34:07):
you're going to get at least baseline steady play from him.
And I think that's fair to ask of him right now,
and I think it's fair to expect of him right now,
and I'm hoping it's more because if it is more,
I think that would solve a lot of problems for
the future. Of the safety room, which is still very
much in question and something that if it's not good
from him, if he doesn't take that next step, if

(01:34:28):
there's injury, I might have to hit.

Speaker 3 (01:34:29):
This room again.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
And like considering the fact that you're already wondering about
defensive line, I don't want to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:36):
I want to have answers.

Speaker 1 (01:34:37):
And we were spoil to have Poyer and Hyde work
the way they did for the years they do. Now
we're in a position where it's not as shore, so
let's make it sure with a good season. I hope
it happens. I think it can. But that's the question
I have for the room is really just is colbish
I'm ready to go, and Canny stay ready and Kenny developed?

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Can that curve continue upward?

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
And for Jordan Hancock, you know, I think this is
just developmental year, occasional reps eventually getting a larger role
next year. Who that's in place of probably the guy
in front of him and tomorrow Hamlin. But that's all
I got on safety yet, Any final thoughts on that
before we close it out?

Speaker 2 (01:35:07):
No, I think, you know, I think they do think
the safety spot ties into the run defense piece. Worries
for me where you know, if you can't stop the
run with like a light or neutral box and you
have to walk a safety down, it forces you into
more single high looks and then puts Bishop or Rap
in a disadvantageous spot having to be the post safety
and it's probably gonna end up being raped because he

(01:35:28):
has the processing and I Bishop is so good in
the box, even though Rap is as well, But it's
just it's kind of six and one half a dozen
to the other at this point in terms of what
you do. And I think it could be a like
a chain reaction negatively where things snowball and kind of
get away from them potentially, But I just want to
see him get more time on task. And I think
that's also another reason too why you potentially like you

(01:35:51):
want Trey White to be a starter, because you know,
if you've got the corners on the outside, like three
of your four not even we'll go the five dbs,
Trey is going to be in the right place, Terren's
going to be in the right place, Benford's going to
be in the right place. Rap's going to be in
the right place, and then it's Bishop and you know,
like Okay, you got other guys who can help him
get to the right place, or you know, you have

(01:36:11):
other guys who will be right and so he can
play off them a little bit. I think it's a
bit of like a buttress aspect for Bishop, but I'm
excited to see what he can be. I still don't
love the fit. I didn't love to pick when it happened.
I didn't have a round two great on him. But
you know, I trust the system and the Bill staff
again getting the blood from the stone and kind of
see again it not everybody can just hit the ground

(01:36:34):
running and be a stud like Sean Dolax. Some guys
need time on test. They gotta work. They got the
guys say that that side that I didn't have anything
real to say that I just wanted to bury the
lead and pop a giggle.

Speaker 3 (01:36:45):
This is this is an all time under review episode.
In my opinion, this is great. I know, and I
agree with you. It's it's a wait and see for
a lot of these positions.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
And that's such an easy thing to say, but really
like it's when you had Jordan Poyer and Michael Hid,
you knew what you got. When you add Stefan Diggs
as your wide receiver. One you knew what you got.
I feel like there's a lot of uncertainty, but it's
not I guess for a few positions, I could say
I'm not totally pessimistic on it, but I think as
rather I'm skeptical. And safety is probably outside of defensive

(01:37:15):
tackle just because corner. I think, when healthy, I have
a lot more like confidence. It could be serviceable at
the very least, But with safety, it's like I have
a huge question mark and it really stems from cold Bishop.
I hope he's healthy. I hope the time on task
can happen. And what we get is a good starter,
which again answers a lot of questions for the foreseeable future.
The final group, the specialist, which is Tyler Bass, Brad Robbins,

(01:37:36):
and Reid Ferguson. And I'm just going to pitch this
one to you, and it's the fact of Tyler Bass's
health being in question because we saw that the Bills
brought in a few kickers today. What do you think
that means for Bass? Do you think he's going to
go week one or do you think it's possible we
see potential ir or maybe just a few weeks till
he ramps up.

Speaker 2 (01:37:55):
One of the kicks against the Bucks. It looked awkward
and I was like, guess, did he just get hurt again?
Is he still hurt? Like it just looked weird and wonky.
I remember which kick it was. I think he'll be
fine for week one, but it is something I'm keeping
an eye on, because again, if you've got like something
muscular related soft tissue as a kicker, that's a huge problem.

(01:38:18):
Like that is a big rotation you out a plant,
whether it's it doesn't matter which foot it is. If
it's your kicking leg, you have to be able to
rotate and bring your hip through. If it's your plant leg,
you need to be able to plant and have structure
there and not be in pain and not have an issue.
And so him kind of having as something like a
groin injury is not ideal in anybody. But again I

(01:38:38):
thought he was fine. They let him kick. He looked
a little awkward at times in that Bucks game. From
like a house standpoint, I think he'll be fine, but
it is something I'm keeping an eye on.

Speaker 3 (01:38:47):
Yeah, I have questions about week one.

Speaker 1 (01:38:50):
I personally think bringing in the kickers is just kind
of a safety policy to have someone like, hey, we
watched you, we'll keep you on tab If Tyler can't go,
we're gonna bring you on and you're gonna take care
of it for us. But I definitely don't like the
fact that even if he is good to go, I'm
not sure how one hundred percent, if he's one hundred percent,
if he is eighty percent. And for him, with already

(01:39:11):
the scrutiny that man is face, the last thing he
needs is a week against the Ravens where he's kicking
like absolute shit because of an injury. So I'm hoping
that's not the case, that he's good to go after
another week of rest and ramp up, But we'll just
have to say. I just thought it was interesting that,
you know, they said he was good to go and
then they brought in kickers. I'm like, I don't know
if you know that for sure yet, but we're gonna
wait and find out. Maybe they'll bring in Show and Nolhak.
If he gets any sort of opportunity to take a

(01:39:33):
game off from the Rams and come kick for the Bills,
I don't I think they wouldn't mind, But I mean,
holy shit, this episode is almost two hours long. That
was a lot of fun before we sign off, any
final thoughts on this roster, any final things or just
surrounding the bills ahead of the regular season that you
wanted to point out or say before we ended.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
No, I think we hit everything in all honesty and Sincerey, yeah,
I think we hit it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
I'm good, Yes, and I think we did too. Covered
every group extensively. This was a ton of fun. Ant
You're one of my favorite guests again on the show.
Your knowledge is always on display, and I swear like
I lose my train of thoughts so easy because I
feel like everything we talk about could just go for
hours because of the insight that you provide.

Speaker 3 (01:40:19):
So I appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
I want you to tell the people what you got
going on, where they can find you, what's new in
your world?

Speaker 3 (01:40:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:40:26):
So I host Disgui's Coverage Live every Tuesday night nine
pm Eastern, maybe potentially shifting to like eight thirty or
eight based on how the Tuesday schedule is opening up,
potentially a little before me. Uh judge, nudge, but yeah,
live every Tuesday night. I also co host The Cover
One Film Room Live every Wednesday, five pm Eastern. Now

(01:40:47):
that we are back in season. Both the shows are heavy,
film focused and analytics focused for me, and that's what
you get on my socials as well. Find me on
Twitter at Pro Underscore Underscore Ant, find me on Blue
Sky at Pro Ant Underscores. There just pro Ant post
a lot of film, a lot of structure, scheme stuff.
Obviously Bill's heavy, but stuff across the league, especially for

(01:41:08):
teams that I like, or you know, systematically or schematically,
or individual players that I like. So everything for me
is X's and O scheme, structure and all that kind
of stuff. And I put out a breakdown of Cole
Bishop's preseason film earlier this evening, that being Thursday, August
twenty eighth in the evening. And I also have another
bonus episode dropping this week as well that I will

(01:41:31):
be recording on Friday, August twenty ninth and dropping sometime
Friday August twenty ninth. I believe, and I'm a Gemini
and that's me.

Speaker 3 (01:41:42):
Thanks for that, No, I'm just kidding. I appreciate it.
That was. That was. If you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:41:49):
Are looking to grow your knowledge of the game, watch
his show. Follow him on Twitter, slash x or Blues
Guy wherever you can find it. Again, a lot of
what I know just getting into the network and being
able to develop my knowledge of the game comes from Anthony,
like I'll be transparent, like you have taught me a
ton It's why I love getting you on here. Being

(01:42:09):
able to produce for the Film Room has been a
ton of fun. You guys are awesome to work with,
and it's a great show that you should all be
checking out. Seriously, follow it and learn from it because
you will learn a lot, including how Sean Dolak is
the best player in the NFL, thinks the Bills are
dummies for letting him slip through their grasp but no,
and what he's referring to. As you guys can tell,

(01:42:30):
these have been pre recorded episodes. Lately kind of come
to the realization that because of my work schedule essentially
changing and basically personal details as far as commute goes expanding,
it's become a bit harder to do tuesdays in the window.

Speaker 3 (01:42:43):
So I've just been pre recording these and it's been
going great and I'm having fun doing it, So it's
probably just gonna stay that way unless I get yelled at.
I don't think they actually would yell at MA, I'm
just joking, but hopefully not.

Speaker 1 (01:42:54):
That's basically been the format and I'll probably stick with
it for as long as I can and just adjust
when there's Thursday night games, because I know there's two
of them this year, so stay tuned.

Speaker 3 (01:43:01):
If there's any changes on that, I'll let the good
people know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
But I'm going to throw up the other band that
says Joe Reyvois because we are going to wrap it
up for the evening.

Speaker 3 (01:43:08):
You guys have been a wonderful crowd. Be sure to
tip your waitresses.

Speaker 1 (01:43:12):
I appreciate the heck out of each and every one
of you for tuning into this week's episode of Under
Review again the channel. If you could subscribe if you're
not subscribed already, we would appreciate the heck out of it.
Likes and shares are greatly appreciated. To all your Bills
fan friends, to all your non Bills fan enemies, all
those people who are looking for football content and perspective
on the Bills. We are the ones that we can
provide it to you, so feel free to check it

(01:43:34):
out and subscribe if you are interested. One past sign
up link in the description below. Man that was a
fun episode, and the good news for all of you
is there's another episode coming just next week to preview
the upcoming matchup against the Baltimore Ravens, a playoff rematch.
But for tonight, we are going to say good night
to you, Sean Dolack and every single one of you.

Speaker 3 (01:43:56):
I tuned in again. Thank you all so much.

Speaker 1 (01:43:59):
Enjoy the rest of your evening, enjoy the rest of
your weekend, and as always, go bills.

Speaker 3 (01:44:03):
Take care.

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