Reacting to the Buffalo Bills 2025 NFL Draft Class! | UR - Under Review

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Previous play. We'll go under review. What is going on? Everybody.

(00:43):
Happy Tuesday evening, and thank you so much for being
here for this week's episode of Under Review. My name
is Joe DeRosa. You can find me on Twitter slash
x at show Underscore DeRosa. We are so back, folks,
after six and a half hours this past Saturday to
cover day three, we are back at regularly scheduled time.
It is good to be here. I apologize. The brothel
is gone, folks, the funeral home is gone. We're with

(01:05):
the normal background now, with the normal lights. So I
apologize that I couldn't deliver on the green screen tonight.
But it's all good. We're back up and running. Happy
to be here. I have missed my Tuesday night slot
and I am so excited for this episode because, folks,
the draft is coming gone. The Buffalo Bills have made
their now nine selections and we have so much to
discuss on tonight's episode about the twenty twenty five Buffalo

(01:29):
Bills draft class. And when I say we, of course, folks,
I never just me and me. It's never just me
on the show. I always have a guest. This is
one of my favorite guests to bring on an awesome
person and awesome analysts, someone who provides great insight, and
that is the one and only Draft extraordinaire, John Helmcamp. John,
welcome back to the show. I should say you were

(01:50):
at the draft and that is super cool. I am
sad I could enjoy you this year, but other obligations
were pressing and I was unable to go. But you
were able to go have a great time. So I'm
gonna first ask you how you're doing, how's life? And
then I'm going to ask you how'd the draft go?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
My friend, I'm doing well. I'm I'm stoked to be here.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
I'm glad that we've had, you know, uh what, four
or five days to kind of sit back and digest
at this point and and think about these draft picks,
and and listen to Brandon Bean's ranting and and see
all the craziness in these Buffalo Bills streets online, and
there's a there's just a little bit to talk about.
So I'm I'm really excited to get into this. And
you know, the draft was great. The the bubbly train

(02:29):
kept going. I I brought one with me this evening.
Oh the peach Bullini Bubbly uh, not a sponsor hashtag,
but yeah, man, the the Bubbly, the Bubbly just keeps
rolling and flowing. And it's it's good stuff. Man, it's
it's it's good. It's good to be here. We have
a lot to digest, so much so that I still

(02:50):
feel like stuff is swirling, you know, I'm still like
plucking nuggets out of the stratosphere to come up with
some opinions.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
I'm so glad you put it that way too, because
the draft during even right before and the days after
are always like a whirlwind of thought, like even to
a point where like I'm checking my phone thinking there's news.
There's no news. It's just you're still kind of setting
in the impact of the draft. And for this one,
I mean, you had nine picks. There's a lot to

(03:18):
cover with it. But I'm glad you had a great time. Again,
the draft was super cool, and we went last year,
you know, I'm glad you got to experience it. And
for those who are out of the loop, the Bubbly
train was because when we went last year in Radio Row,
I drank ten in a night as well as had
like three strawberry and crustables, like literally in the same night,
and my stomach did not thank me the next day,

(03:38):
but it was worth it. I would do it again
every single time I'm able to go. What was your number?
By the way, John, what did you what did you hit?
What was the did you you know? Did you get ten?

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I was trying to match.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
The high watermark was seven on back to back days, though,
So I crushed fourteen bubblies over two days of the
NFL Draft. Hell yeah, which I think is respect respectable. Yes,
not definitely not the ten.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Not the ten.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
That's the the the benchmark that we aspired to. And
you know what, I'll do some training next year, maybe
I'll have a bubbly combine, uh, in preparation for the draft,
and then next years in Pittsburgh, Man, it's it's yinser city,
so it's uh. We we got to hope that the
catering brings back the bubbly for a third straight year,
and we can bubbles.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Two years in a row. It's pretty promising. And that's
a little more attainable. I mean, like for me, I'm
you know, out on East so it's it's a little
more of a doable trip next time. So I'm hoping
I can get back there, because I loved it. It
was so much fun. I mean day one being there
in person, experience in the atmosphere, and then like being
there on radio road or like interact. There was so
many cool people seeing the prospects come in and get interviewed,

(04:47):
like really good experience. So I live vicariously through you,
my friend. I'm glad you had fun.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
But yeah, one, I had one last thing before we
before we dive in Maxwell Harrison. You know, he was
the last first round pick of the prospect that was
in the green room, so he was the last one
to come up and do a podium with media availability
after So by that point so many people had already left.

(05:13):
There was maybe like twelve of us in the media
room for Harriston, like that was it. So I got
to get three questions into him, which was which was
awesome getting to to ask some questions of the bill's
first round selection. He didn't get to the podium until
probably god, I had had to have been like twelve fifteen,
twelve twenty something like that.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
So I was I was at I was in the.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Workroom until one forty five in the morning, then get
back a half hour drive to my my po Dunk Motel. Yeah,
it was a it was a late night, but well
worth it just a blast.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Cool to see mad Max in person.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
He was just beaming from ear to ear, so excited
about the selection, so excited to get back with his
buddy Ray.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, good stuff. It was going to see him.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
And another buddy. Yeah, that was that was. I mean,
just to spoil it because Day three, you know, that happened,
and I was live with David Tilton when that was
going on, and it wasn't what I expected, not because
I didn't expect them to address d line again, but
just that frame. But we'll get more into that as
we get on. I brought this comment up from Roy
because I feel like it's not something I want to

(06:21):
spend too much time on, but worth discussing given the
recent news psycho with Brandon being going on WGR and
essentially saying some fun words to the hosts about the
wide receivers and the you know bills not taking one
until late and it's really created discourse that again on
day three, I addressed when someone asked me about it

(06:42):
and kind of said they were disappointed, but really this
idea that the bills, you know should have taken a
wide receiver earlier. Maybe they haven't given Josh enough web.
It's kind of the same mantra that's been going on
for the past few seasons. So John, I'm going to
turn it to you and we can talk about this
briefly as long as you like. But when it comes
to the Bills receive room, their position in the draft,
when it comes to how they've addressed it, I mean,

(07:03):
what are your thoughts. Are you aligned with the side
that they should be doing more for the receiving corps
for Josh or are you aligned with the side that
they have done enough and really it wasn't as big
of a need and maybe the draftboard just didn't follow
their way to take anyone. Or are you somewhere in
the middle. What are your thoughts on this topic?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, I am. I'm in the middle on it.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
And here's why we know that Brandon Bean had twelve
first round grades this year. Apparently Maxwell Harrison was one
of them, and they love him. They love his personality,
they love his explosive speed, they love his his ball
skills when it's in the air, the production that's there,
there's a lot to like, you know, Brandon being said

(07:46):
after the selection, Hey, if he was a little bit bigger,
he wouldn't have been here. The only reason that we
got him is because of the slight size concern. So
we know that there was only twelve first round grades.
We know that Harrison was one that they had a
first round grade on. If they didn't have a first
great on any of the wide receivers that were available,
which basically at that point would have just been Luther Burden,
Like he's the one that that was still on the board.

(08:08):
And I was talking about this on another show. I
was saying, if Burdon is the pick, I get it,
not because wide receiver is a screaming need, but because
of the yak ability which is such a priority of
this offense, of what they're looking for, of Joe Brady's
scheme of everything, Like he would be a really good
fit in this offense. But it just comes down to
the fact that they had a first round grade on

(08:29):
a corner which is a direct need, and they went
that route. So then on day two they didn't see
the value. They saw the value at other positions that
were also still positions in need. People have been talking
about it, like I put the tweet out, I'm like,
since the second the AFC Championship Game has ended, people
are like Brandon being better attack the defensive line and

(08:51):
cornerback two and then that's exactly what he did, and
now people are pissed. It's like there's no winning with
some of you people. And I don't understand, And like,
I totally get Bean's frustration him mouthing off. Honestly I
love it, like, let me do my job. Go full
sunny Weaver on him and tell him like I'm working here, like,
let him do his job. In the last two years

(09:13):
before this one, the first selection was on an offensive
skill player. I think the one before that, uh what
a Sirens Torrens was there too, And in one of
the last four selections, so three of the last four
in some capacity, the first picks, we're on the offensive
side to try and shore that up. He's drafted and
developed the offensive line, he's gotten them extended. The offensive

(09:33):
line is returning all six, not just five, including Alec
coming in as the sixth offensive lineman.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I feel like he's doing a great job and I don't.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
But to say that I'm in the middle is because
I don't think Bean is straight up saying we have enough,
We're not looking for more at wide receiver. I just
don't think the value lined up with the way that
the board was falling and where they saw talented players
still available, Like would you have rather have reached on

(10:03):
a wide receiver or have taken Dorian Strong who fell
to them into the six, who everyone thought was gonna
go like a top fifty player. The value was just
there on some of these guys. Dion Walker again considered
by a lot of people to be top fifty, sliding
past that because of the back injuries. And again we're
gonna get into all these guys more in depth. But
the value was just there at other positions that needed

(10:26):
to be addressed and to build up some size and
some mass and some strength on the defensive side of
the ball. And I loved his draft. It's an a
for me. I'm not at all upset that there wasn't
a top fifty, top seventy five wide receivers selected to
this team. Sure, I think that's still an area that

(10:47):
can be addressed, maybe via trade, Maybe we roll this
unit this year and next year, wide receiver becomes more
of an opportunity to look at if Keon doesn't take
the steps that we're hoping for. There's plenty to see here,
but it's not just wide receiver or bust.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
It's not a fantasy football draft.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think that this was a great draft for the fits,
for the traits that they went after in the positions
that they attacked heavily.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, great points. I'm completely in agreement with you, and
I want to say this. I am not anti wide receiver.
Neither of us are. Brandon Bean is not anti wide receiver.
No one in the building is anti wide receiver. And
no one in the building thinks that it is a
bad idea to have more hands in the receiving corps,
higher talent, the ability to stretch the field ed. No

(11:35):
one in the building is sabotage and Josh Allen, no
one in the building is bending the knee to a
defensive coach because the defensive coach would love for his
team to score points. None of that exists. And those
are some things that I have seen discussed that I
think is just absolutely ridiculous when you have as of
the season and I'm levelheaded, right, but I get really
frustrated with this conversation because it turns a blind eye

(11:58):
to how much effort the Bills have tried to put
into this offense, building the roster, building the personnel. They
drafted again, as you alluded to two years ago, Dalton
Kinkaid in the first round. Then they take an offensive
lineman in the second round. The year prior, they take
James Cook in the second round, but they took kyer
Elam because they needed a corner in the first. The
following year from the kink draft, their first pick was

(12:20):
Kean Coleman. They have made concerted efforts in every season,
whether that is in the draft, whether that is in
free agency, whether that is a trade deadline, whether that
is a few years ago when they shipped off a
first for Stephan Diggs. Was pointed out by Ron Beck
and our comments section, they have made concerted efforts to
help Josh Allen and get them receivers. I think the

(12:41):
biggest problem with this entire conversation. I tweeted this, and
I stand on this take, and I think, to be
honest with you, it can't be said any differently. We
are conflating results with effort. We are giving our power
to the idea that Brandon Bean is not trying hard enough.
To help Josh Allen the offense, and that they are
caving to defense and that defense is the only thing

(13:03):
that matters and Josh will just make it work. That
is not true. That is not the case. The Buffalo
Bills are putting in plenty of effort. What you are
upset at is the execution of this offense, the offensive personnel.
You are upset, and rightfully so. I don't disagree with
people that are underwhelmed by Dalton Kincaid, that are underwhelmed

(13:24):
by Keon Coleman. That are you know, upset that the
receiving core hasn't been this world beating unit since Diggs
left and they haven't had a thousand yard guy. But again,
evaluating the wide receiver room in a vacuum isn't fair
to what this offense is, which is an offense that
basically blends every skill position into one to create a

(13:44):
symbiotic being that can score thirty points a game eight
games in a row and be a top advanced metric
offense and a top offense in the NFL that plays
a sustainable style of football in the winter in January
and so on, so forth. What I impoored people to
consider is that while yes, it is frustrating that the

(14:04):
Bills don't have, you know, two thousand doesn't have a
Bengals level receiving corps. Their offense functions as a top
unit in a different way. There is no one right
way to create an offense. But also it's not like
they're not trying to attack it. And that's also when
Brandon Beid went on WGR not what he was saying
when he said, like all the things to the two hosts,

(14:27):
he was just saying, I think it's a little silly
that everyone clamors for receivers still when we don't think
that was our biggest need, because it objectively was not
the biggest need the Buffalo Bills had on their roster
John In that AFC Championship game, they put up twenty
nine points and lost the game. They were scoring at

(14:49):
a high click, draining time of possession, and they were
doing that against every team. They ran on Baltimore, who
had a great defense, they were running on Kansas City,
who had a great defense, and guess what they lost
in the playoffs because their defense got outclassed both by
personnel and by coaching from Kansas City, who's had their numbers.
So what do you do in response? You address the

(15:11):
glaring flaws that are on your team that are the
most pressing, and you keep that in mind for every
single round you draft. In round one, John, you and
I have spoken about in a million times, what was
the most pressing need, either d line or corner. Guess
what they did. They took a corner because what.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Were we saying and what did we say, like a month,
three weeks before the draft. Yeah, the pipe dream of
Kenneth Walker or Derek Harmon is terrific, but it really
started to look like those guys weren't going to be there.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
And if they're not going to be there, there's a lot.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Of corners, really talented corners that were gonna be on
the board. And they had their choice of basically five
guys that they could have gone to, and this is
the one that they hung their hat on because he
had the highest grade at a direct position in need.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
I love everything that you're saying about it.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
The defense got no pressure on Mahomes, no none. Greg
Russo disappeared, at Oliver disappeared like they they weren't getting
any pressure in that game.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
And that's multiple years in a row.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Where the defensive line has gone silent when it matters most.
So is it the biggest need? Absolutely? Did they address
it heavily? Absolutely? Do they also still probably need another
top wide receiver. Yeah, absolutely, But you.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Can't say no. You can't.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
So look at the board and you look at the
value and you look at what's there. I think they
crushed this draft. I think that they did a great
job with it, and a plus would have been taking
more of those assets to trade up for a real
go getter pass rusher, like a Michael Williams type. In
my opinion, that would have been my favorite move to see.

(16:56):
But it takes two to tango. We don't know if
they made the call and got hung up on we
don't know what happened. So the next best thing is
what they did. And they also got aggressive to go
get the guys that they wanted on day two and
day three, and I can't fault being at all now
for that approach. And by the way, one last thing
before we get off this topic, the last two offensive

(17:18):
skill position players that they drafted, Dalton Kinkaid and Keon Coleman,
were both hurt last year, so we don't even know.
We don't even know their full ceiling in this offense.
And I'm not saying that before Dalton Kinkaid's injury he
was a world beating tight end or anything along those lines.
But Keyon Coleman was showing some flashes. He had, like
back to back great weeks before the risk injury. Dalton

(17:41):
Kinkaid year two, still developing in a crowded tight end room.
Maybe the second half of the season we saw him
start to take more of those steps as the real,
you know, zone beater tight end that's capable of being
a go to option for Josh.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
We don't know.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
There were injuries that may have slowed down the progression
of Johnson guys.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
I have to follow that by saying, what happened to
the offense when both of them got hurt. They still
put up thirty points a game. They were still productive.
So that's what I don't understand with this conversation. Again,
it's okay to have the weapons in the room. We
are not saying we wouldn't be ecstatic if the Buffalo
Bills somehow got their hands on Justin Jefferson tomorrow. We
would be over the moon. But I do remember that

(18:25):
rumor actually it's a that's such a poll but that
that's not the priority for this this team when you're
talking about draft, and I will say this and I'll
get off the topic because again I agree, John, with
everything you're saying. And this offense can function in a
myriad of ways. You can build it a myriad of ways.
But they're also going to be making a critical mistake
if they neglect a position of need for something that

(18:46):
might might be a need. But also is it nearly
as pressing, Like you cannot simply, in my eyes, just
take the receiver, the shiny toy and just ignore your
corner room, ignore your secondary, agnore your D line. Just
because Matthew Golden fell instead of instead of you know,
let's say it was Matthew Golden at thirty instead of
Max Harrison. You know what they would have done. They
probably would have gotten off of it a crude capital

(19:07):
and went for the corner. And what bothers me is
again like, think of it this way. When you look
at your house and you have three holes in your wall,
and you have a large hole and a tiny hole,
what are you fixing first? And what are you putting
more effort into? And what's going to be overall better
for the structure. You're attacking the larger hole. If you
fill the small hole and neglect the large hole, the
hole gets bigger and your wall crumbles. I don't want
to live in that world, John, I have no interest.

(19:29):
And for the Bills, this was a defensive heavy draft.
It was telegraph from the get go, and it made
fundamental sense to hammer defense early often and enrich it
with death. And that's exactly what this draft was. And
in my eyes, from the simple like approach, because again
I don't like grades as much, and my grades on
this draft are independent of the wide receiver conversation. I

(19:52):
am a fan of how Brandon Bean approached it, the death,
the positions of need, how we addressed it, and I
think that we are. We should be pleased that he
did this because it's an urgent draft for them, and
they expressed urgency by taking these positions. So the wide
receiver talk, we're gonna put it away. I understand people
want shiny toys and fun receivers at scale positions and

(20:13):
all that stuff, but it's not the priority. Getting an
ancillary piece for the offense is cool, But if you're
gonna go for it and ignore what else is out
there that could be better for your death on defense,
which is what you needed. It's a mistake and I'm
glad they didn't make the mistake. Now, John, I'm sorry.
If Tory Horton fell to them at the position where
they took Hancock like, Yeah, would have been fine with it.

(20:36):
If they took Jalen Royals in like let's say they
kept one thirty two and took Roles, would have been
fine with it. But they didn't. They chose defense, They
got poached, the board didn't fall their way. I'm glad
this was their pivot. I'm happy with this draft. Just spoilers.
So John and Roy, thank you for pitching that again.
You got us go. And he said, damn never thought
a simple question which strikes so many nerves. It's just

(20:58):
it's all I'm reading about and here about for the
past couple of days on the godforsaken app and it's
just like, why are we even having this conversation again
of this year, of all years, like last year, and
being said this verbatim, I would have understood, dude, what
does this year, especially when you look at what the
defense looked like, how do you get this conversation from that.

(21:21):
It just blows my mind. But I guess it's just
something people always want and I can't yuck her yam.
If that's how you want to be about it, If
that's how you approach it, that's fine. I can't tell
you anything. I'm just giving you my opinion, and I
think the conversation's done, so John, I feel like we
just had a nice venting session. Let's ship the vibes,
let's get some positivity here, and let's talk about the
draft glass again. Nine overall picks and just going in order,

(21:44):
Maxwell Harriston in the first round, TJ. Sanders, Round two,
Landon Jackson, Round three, Dion Walker, round four, Jordan Hancock,
Jackson Halls. I think, actually I think I might have
this wrong either way. Day three picks Jordan Hancock, Jackson Hawes,
Dorian Strong, Chase Lunt, and Caden. And when I look
at this again, come on, guys, don't do this now.

(22:06):
I felt like we had such a serious start to
the show and then we got this and this is
a good comment and can dunk thank you for that.
I giggled internally. Anyways, John, again, like what we just
talked about, they attack defense. It was telegraphed from the start,
and here you are. They have numerous additions to the
defensive line, they have numerous additions to the secondary, They
have secondary death, and then they have an awesome blocking

(22:29):
tight end in Jackson Hawe. So I want to go
about this with each player time dependent. You know, we can.
We can talk about it as long or as little
as we want to. I do want to get to
everybody if we can. But let's start with Max Harriston.
I'm gonna call him Max, not Maxwell, because he prefers
Max again from Kentucky Rangy really stout zone corner with
freakish speed, and I think he was the fastest time

(22:50):
corner in the draft, if not one of the fastest
time corns. He was the fastest player, fastest player okay,
so excuse the fast player in the draft at the combine.
So the thing the vision I see for Max Harriston
is similar to the vision that they had for Roster Douglass,
only younger, faster, and more athletic. But what I really
like about Harriston are again the frame is light, and

(23:11):
I have my concerns about him when it comes to
the down and dirty work, the run, defense, the physicality,
But from a pure coverage standpoint, he's an awesome prospect.
I think when you talk about how the Bills like
to mix and match a disguise and bait you into
mistakes and trying to get you to just throw to
the position where they have someone in range, He's perfect
for that, but also perfect to generate turnover opportunity, which

(23:32):
is something that this defense lives I don't want to say,
and dies by, but they thrive off of it. They
love generating turt andovers, they love creating havoc. This is
a corner that feels like he has ways to go
in his development, but if you get there, he's exciting.
John mad Max, your analysis, tell me what you like,
what you dislike, and how he fits.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Unbelievably high ceiling.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
One of the most athletic players period in this year's
NFL draft.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
He is a blur on defense.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
When he puts his foot in the ground, like out
of his back pedal, when he bursts forward, the.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Dude is shot out of a cannon.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
And one of the things that I love the most
about him is that quarterbacks are going to have to
be very, very careful and very very aware of where
mad Max is on the field at all times because
if they throw his direction, his closing speed to jump routes,
to peel off maybe what he was previously assigned to
to get to an area where other corners simply can't

(24:34):
get to on the field, he has that ability to
just be a nightmare for opposing quarterbacks. Yes, he's a
little bit slighter, and as being said, that's the only
reason he was available at pick thirty and wasn't a
top ten to fifteen type guy, because he is so
explosive and so fast, and so charismatic in the personality

(24:55):
and everything that he does just fits with what this
defense has been sorely, sorely missing.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
You might you might say that this is a.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Direct response to Xavier Worthy of needing a corner that
can hang with blazing speed in the AFC playoffs, and
he can't. And he has that speed and that ability,
and he has such lethal ability to recover that even
if he does miss a step or if he does
get slightly bumped off a route because he is a

(25:26):
little bit smaller, the closing speed, the recovery speed to
get right back in phase is crazy high. So yes,
I think I think the size concern is the only
reason why he was available at thirty. You know, he's
coming off a year that had a little bit of
a shoulder ding to him. But you're talking about a
top five percent athlete at the cornerback position, someone that

(25:51):
can contribute in a variety of ways. And when he
was asked, all he kept saying after getting selected was
I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
To get the ball back to Josh.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Like that's his whole vision, and that's the whole vision
for this defense. Get the ball back, make a play,
be a disruptor, create stuff. Yeah, there are some things
that need to be coached. His tackling needs to be coached.
Some of his pursuit angles need to be coached. But
if you can get him to adjust those pursuit angles
a little bit with his speed, I feel like that's
a pretty shallow learning.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Curve for him.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
I feel like that's something that can be smoothed out
in a hurry. And no, he's never going to be
an elite tackling corner that's not his strength. But his
ability in coverage, his ability in man is really really
good too, especially offman. If you give him that ability
off man to read what the wide receivers doing in
front of him, and then clamp down on it.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
He's great at that, So I love the pick.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
He wasn't my favorite option there going into the draft,
but the more I've gone back and looked at him,
the more I understand what the vision is. I will
say I had nervous about it right after the pick.
I'm like, man, if Benjamin Morrison, Trey Amos, Chavon revel,
if those guys hit and Harriston doesn't, it's just a

(27:09):
whole other conversation like the one that we just got
off of first round corner. But I'm not going to
kind of entertain that and go down that rabbit hole.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yet.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Let's give the kid an actual, true run at things
with Douglass back in the way that he plays in
the instincts there, it's a perfect mentor for one year
to get Harriston up to speed at the NFL level.
But man, that blazing speed that is rare stuff and
it's no and it is super fun. And this defense
has not had anyone with that speed in my memory.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
It is never The speed is the big thing for
me because I feel like, yeah, the run defense is
the one I'm going to say, when you watch all
of his reps, you know at least a good brunt
of the run support reps he had, And I could
chout out Anthony for posting this cut up they always
I think he boasted it. I remember seeing it. But
it's not like he loses every rep either too. I

(28:03):
think the problem with him is pursuit angles need work,
as pointed out by Eric, but also sometimes it's like
a weird thing where it almost feels like he freezes
because he felt like he took the wrong angle and
he doesn't end up getting back into a position where
he can make a clean tackle, so he tries to
arm tackle and he gets blown by. And then there's
times where his speed is just like so quick that

(28:23):
he almost over pursues, and then that's where the angle
gets bad or even just straight up misses. And that's
going to happen with someone like him, right Like you
have speed, you want to use it, but ultimately, like
when you're a habit creator, that two ends up being
the other side of the coin where you over pursue
create opportunity for an offense, and you don't want that
to happen. So I hope that that component of his
game can clean up. But when it comes to the

(28:45):
actual coverage ability, I think the sky's the limit for him.
And again it's the speed, not just for man coverage,
where if he's on the line and he cannot get
really get beat up and press able to hold his
own ground and stay attached to a receiver's hip, he's
going to keep up with that. But like you pointed out,
and I love this because this is my favorite point
about the speed is when he loses, he could still win.
Like he's never out of a rep. If he gets

(29:07):
let's just say, you know, blow him by, or someone
presses him and knocks him off base and he's off
a stem, he can recover and get back in a position,
and he has the range and the length to not
only use his speed, but to get up and get
in position where he doesn't have to be right on
top of you to kind of deflect the pass. And
I called this out well on the Day three show,
but that repehead against Isaiah Bond was probably Brandon Bean's

(29:31):
direct vision of how he's going to cover someone like
Xavier Worthy or one of these speedy receivers where yeah,
you're fast, but I'm also fast and I can get
into good position and coverage to just deflect. I think
that that is a huge boost for this Bill's defense.
I want to see what he does with more man
coverage snaps, because that is a big thing, and you

(29:51):
know in the times he did it, it was still fine.
But when you want the uptick that the Bills probably want,
you want to see a more consistent basis. And with that,
I do have worry about again physical receivers. You know,
when he's playing, if he plays any press jam, is
it going to be a problem. Is he going to
be able to win? Is he going to get knocked
off of route stems? But even if he does, how
do you get back in position with a four to

(30:11):
two corner? And that's really exciting to see from him.
I think again, sky's the limit as far as coverage goes,
and even if the run defense isn't the cleanest, if
it's good enough. It's kind of my argument with like
Dalton kin Kaid, which I don't think it's at that
level yet, but as just be solid, be okay, and
if you can do that, we can wake it work
because the coverage is going to matter more at the
end of the day, especially if the vision of this

(30:32):
draft with the defensive line improvements keeps the linebackers clean
to a point where the corner defending the run isn't
a detriment. I mean, it's gonna matter at some point,
but it's not like they're going to constantly go after you.
Just avoid being a being bullied, avoid being a target
or an easy target. And I think will be in
good shape. And I like the pick. Again, wasn't my preference.
I was about it when they did it. The fit

(30:54):
I see the vision. Those deficiencies worried me. I felt
like when you were talking about more sure things for
the Bill defense and we talked about it, Trey Amos
was my preferred guy. But also, you know a lot
of people value tree Amos very differently than the league did.
People had Trey Amos go in you know, first round,
sometimes even mock to Green Bay. He ends up going
to Washington in the forties, which was kind of crazy.

(31:15):
So it is what it is. You know, they had
a very high grade. Brandon Bean sees the vision with
the traits. I trust that, and I think there is
a four with Max Harriston and just be decent this
year to good and we're we got something there. So
I like the pick. You know, I wasn't in love
with it, but I see the vision. I like the player.
I think the profile is there. I think in this defense,
especially again with how he could play off, how he

(31:36):
could catch up to you, all those things are going
to benefits for the Bill secondary and they needed the
death then they got it. So anything else on Max
Harriston John before we pivot to our next player.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, doesn't he just kind of embody the Bill's defensive
philosophy as a whole. He's not going to be perfect,
but God is he opportunistic and fast, and I think
that that's really exciting stuff. I think that he just
fits what it was that they were looking for. They
met with him at the combine, they brought him in
on a thirty. They did a lot of work on him,
and they feel very comfortable with what he can do.

(32:06):
And I think this s Gkuy's the woman. I always
said that a few times, but I just think that
his upside is huge.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
One hundred percent. Yeah, there's there's a lot to like
about the player, just the player, you know himself, and
what he can bring, and I just I'll never say
no to anyone, especially in the secondary that has reached
has speed, has you know, top tier athleticism, and if
the frame can develop over time and good, But there's
a lot to work with and he doesn't feel like
as much of a project as like Elim was when

(32:34):
he came into the league. You know, if you want
to say, there's still going to be a developmental curve,
of course, but it's not like you're plucking him out
of something that he was doing and putting him into
something brand new, Like the Bills are still going to
play zone a majority of the time, at least in
my opinion, and to come from an eighty five percent
zone defense, that's still going to be like a better
transition than Hey, i was in mostly man and I

(32:54):
was playing press man. Now I'm having to learn zone
and zone discipline and zone eyes. All that stuff is
something you have to learn. And it felt like it
just didn't happen the way they envisioned. But this feels
like a different type of curve that I think, just
given what they do, feels a little more realistic. So
I buy into it. I like the pick, you know,
not in love, but I can I can absolutely see
it now we move on to their next pick, and
they traded up for this pick, and I was so

(33:16):
shocked because when I saw they trade it up, I
was pretty convinced it was Edge Rusher, it was d Line,
and it was a DT, which I wanted, but it
was one I didn't expect, and it's TJ. Sanders out
of South Carolina. Now I know TJ. Sanders fits that
typical Bill's one tech role, even though his weight, I
think if you look it up as two ninety seven

(33:36):
or two ninety six, he can play in the three hundreds.
He said it himself, So if you factor in that
playing weight the three hundreds with this height, it is
a Bill's one tech profile. But even then I was
buying into frame a bit too much and I was
pro Alfred Collins in that spot. So I was kind
of disappointed. I calmed down, and anyone the discord knows,
I went in like what the eff are we doing?
And then I eventually was like no, I was the

(33:57):
old Nay, Sorry. I buy into it a lot more
a couple of days later because of just how disruptive
this player is, how chaotic he is. When you talk
about havoc, he brings havoc. He is a disruptor, whether
it's at three or whether it is at one. I
think there's alignment versatility with him. I think there's unrelenting
motor and all of that is something that they want

(34:18):
in this D line especially, And I feel a little
better about it too because of who will get to
when we talk about D line multiple people. So from that,
I'm pretty happy with this pick. Now I've come around
on it. I'm enjoying what I think will be the
plan for him. John, your thoughts, TJ say, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
How the class ended up made me feel way better
about this pick later, but I liked it when it
happened too.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Say it with me.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Top thirty. Visit Senior Bowl rass over nine.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
That is the trifecta for Brandon Bean in terms of
what he loves. And you're talking about a very disruptive, alignment,
versatile defensive tackle. Like you said, if this defense wants
to roll out some NASCAR packages and third and long
put him an ed on the field at the same time.
Cool God, Yeah, love that, Like he has so much

(35:10):
juice and just pure straight line athleticism to run through
a dude with some pass rush moves that show some
finesse and some explosiveness. I think there's a lot to
like about TJ.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Sanders.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
I think he's probably gonna play in that two ninety
to three hundred range. Maybe like might just tip the
scale at three hundred, you know what I mean. Yeah,
but in that two ninety to three hundred range is
probably going to be his sweet spot.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
And he has some real ability.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
To swipe the hands away, to use his hands well,
to dip under, to keep his balance as he's pursuing.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Like, there's a lot of things there.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
And I know that there's multiple people out there that
had him as like their defense to.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Tackle two or three in this class.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
I think again, this is a direct Okay, cool, we're
going after the defensive line. We've identified that we want
to get faster and more athletic and stronger on the interior,
and we're going to.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Go do that.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
That's our dude, that's the fit that we want, that's
the the you know, the type that we're going after.
They identified their guy, they traded up and they went
and they got them.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think TJ. Sanders, again, this
doesn't deconfirm the bills, like because the Bills eventually got
a profile that you could consider a more conventional one tech.
Granted he's also an athletic freak, so maybe not conventional,
but at least kind of what the people wanted in size.
And we'll get to him again, but with TJ. Sanders,
he fits more of the consistent mold that the Bills

(36:37):
have done. And this is simply what they value. And
it's really hard to disprove that claim now or think
that they're going in a totally different direction when they
take someone like him, because yeah, when you look at
the frame and you look at what he played at,
and when you look at you know, even though he
had one tech alignment at South Carolina, you would think
in the NFL he's just more of a three tech
and I would be inclined to agree with you. But

(36:58):
they're definitely going to play at one at times. I
don't know if he's going to be considered in every
down one. What I think the likeliest outcome is is
there will be one tech snaps for him, but he's
also going to have opportunities to rotate in with Ed
as a three. And then you have an unrelenting duo
of Ed Oliver and TJ Sanders and no breaks or

(37:19):
even having both of them on the field, and even
though you could argue there's redundancy there to go from
Ed Oliver the six foot one, three hundred and something
pounds et to now TJ Sanders, who is taller and
plays it a similar weight but also has the pass
rush juice also has the power to get onto your
pads and move you. That should be a fun thought
for Bills fans, and it's a fun thought for me.

(37:41):
But again, it doesn't mean he's boxed into exclusively. Three
T Now I would have again been more comfortable. And
this is where my concern wies with TJ. Sanders, with
the more true body, because I have bought into the
philosophy of your one tech. If it's a true fatty,
a large one tech, what I think the benefit is
like a H. Williams, which, by the way, it seems

(38:02):
very evident at this point that they wanted Williams and
Williams got poached, right, Yeah, that Williams got taken by Detroit,
so they he kind of set himself. I think Buffalo
was going to take me. Don't know for sure, but
they probably did want to go get that kind of player,
So I haven't ruled out entirely that they do favor
getting that if it's just a based on their board value.
But with him gone and you pivot to Sanders, like

(38:24):
I would have preferred to have that frame because I
felt like, even if this guy is just a two
down run stuffer, that to me has impact for the
Bills offensive philosophy because now if we are not compromising
ourselves in run defense, consistently explosive plays don't exist as
often as they used to, and we are putting you
in a longer third down. That's a win because now

(38:44):
we're giving ourselves the chance to come off the field.
Less time is off the clock, more time to possess
the ball. But there are other right ways to do that,
and one of those right ways is havoc plays negative
plays for an offense, getting into the backfield, disrupting, penetrating
on the line, and being able to get opportunities where
you press an offense into a mistake even if it
runs some clock. So it's not my ideal way. I

(39:06):
just need to see TJ. Sanders have the run defense discipline,
not get blown off blocks, be able to handle double teams.
I think the thing for the Bills, and they've said
it themselves, and we talked about this with Dorian Williams
and Trel Bernard and everyone. Your frame is your frame,
but if you're playing above it on tape, we're willing
to take the flyer on you. And Sanders does. He does.
There are several reps where he is able to maintain

(39:26):
his anchor and run defense, shed blocks, violently, get through holds.
You know equip that I posted for Eric and Aunt
the other day on their film room account, which you
should check out. Sanders is literally getting held and just
blows by it like he's the type of player that
plays with that much power and strength. So, yeah, the
frame does worry me. I have questions about it, but
also if he's playing above it, I don't care. Like

(39:46):
then he's a good player and good players make plays.
I see the potential for him to do that. Trading
up was I didn't expect it, but you know, in
context of what the Bills defensive line wants and what
they are, I think it made s and I'm okay
with it. Not my preferred I'm not mad fine by it.
John any more thoughts on.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Sanders, Yeah, A couple things I love what you said
about redundancy because there is no such thing on the
defensive line. Go ahead and ask Philly if they have
too many defense alignemen, no such thing. They will tell
you we can always use more. I love his ability
to line up all over the place, like you said,

(40:27):
because you can plug him in at the one tech
you can. You can bring him in for spelling ed
to give him a breather and rotate. There's all kinds
of ways that you can use this dude, and he
is really, really explosive. I agree with you in terms
of what you're saying about the true, the true three
hundred and thirty pound two down run stuffer, double team eater,

(40:49):
nose tackle. I do think that that's something that they
probably wanted as well, and it just wasn't there. It
didn't shake out. But there's multiple ways to play defensive line. Now,
what you can't have if you're not gonna take a
big run stuffing, double team eating, one tech nose tackle,
what you can't have is someone in that place that

(41:11):
doesn't create havoc.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
It's got to be one of the two.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
You need someone that's either gonna free up everybody else
like a Jamari Caldweller Alfred Collins type in this draft
class where they're just gonna eat up double teams, anchor
down and free up ed and the linebackers and all
that to go clean up. Or if you don't have that,
you need someone with as much juice and athleticism and

(41:35):
production as what we saw here in this pick. You're
talking about a guy with a twelve point six percent
pass rush win rate from a defensive tackle, not an edge.
That is an elite number from a defensive tackle, like
one of the top.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
In this class. So this is someone that is a
havoc maker.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
This is more of a of a Derek Harmon, Like
Derek Harmon isn't that anchored down nose tackle type either.
This is someone that you were looking at him with
a similar frame to say, oh yeah, we can play
him at one tech because he's also going to offer X,
Y Z and go get after the quarterback. That's the
same thing here. This is your bargain on Derek Harmon

(42:14):
type of defensive tackles. So I see it absolutely, and
I see his ability to line up all over the
place and blow through offensivelignement with his speed and with
his strength. It was an unexpected pick.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
I agree. I feel the same way.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
But I again see I see the vision for what
they're looking for on this defense, which is, we want athletes.
We want dudes that are fast, that can create havoc,
whether that was Max Harrison in the secondary, whether that's
on the defensive line. We want dudes that are just
going to mess blank up. We just want them to

(42:53):
go get after it. And that is what TJ. Sanders
can do.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, and you know, again Can on their show made
a point that it's just it resonates to me because
it's hilarious, but it's also true, and it's they just
have a d line that's compromised, compromise composed of pains
in the asses. Like I'm paraphrasing, it's something exact quote,
but that's what it is. And Sanders, you know, we
talked about Derek Harmon, and Derek Harmon was a fun

(43:18):
prospect and someone I would have been hyped for them
to take. He goes to Pittsburgh at twenty one. Derek
Harmon doesn't play it all that different of a frame.
I mean, if you if you think Sanders plays a
two ninety five and so be it, maybe he does.
But If Sanders does play to the three ten like
he explained or has said he could, then that's a
pretty similar bild to Harmon, and we had all those
similar visions. You know, numbers can be very deceiving and

(43:41):
sometimes we buy a lot into the arbitrary numbers, like wait,
but if we're talking he plays a three zero five
a Carbon did, then you have a very similar profile
of player as far as frame goes. And then I
think a similar player as far as what they do
and how they disrupt into type of power they play with.
Like Sanders, there's a vision there again that I see
that I really like. I just need to see it.
And I could say that for every prospect, but especially

(44:02):
with him, because I feel like they took a really
big flyer. They expressed a very large desire to trade
up and go get this player. They love the player,
so that's showing us that bean is bought all the
way in and we need to see why. So that
has to pay off for them, and I do think
because of the trade it does add some pressure to
the player. You want to see it pay off quickly,

(44:23):
but I think it can, Like I think it can.
I'm not against the player. I was hoping for again
a more conventional size, but this is a guy that
has all the tools to be a really great success
in the NFL, and that could pay off for this
Bills d line. So let's keep on the theme of
d lin John and before we do, everybody, thank you
so much for joining. I appreciate all of you. If

(44:44):
you've tuned in late, welcome, Always happy to have you
here listening to us after the fact. Appreciate the hell
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(45:04):
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(45:26):
If you love the Bills, if you have talking about football,
if you have talking to people, that's a great thing
to do. So check it out. Now we move on.
We keep the spirit of d line alive by talking
about the Bill's third round pick, a surprise for the
fact that this player fell to the third round. In
my opinion, Landon Jackson out of Arkansas. Now, this was
a player that almost felt like a lay up when

(45:48):
you talk about, oh, he's on the board, they're fucking
taking land to Jackson. Like I honestly, at first I
thought that's who they were taking at forty one, and
I was like, ooh, straight up. I don't know if
I like a trade up for him, but I was
okay with it if they stood pad in the second
round he fell to like sixty two, and they did it,
which Brandon Bean said they would have done right. They

(46:09):
end up staying put. They get the third rounder back
in the trade, which was great. By the way. I
liked that they got that in the trade from Chicago.
And then they managed to have Landon Jackson fall to them.
And there are again questions about Landon Jackson's development as
a pass rusher. What's the ceiling for him? But I
feel like this is a player that I'm gonna be

(46:30):
honest with you. Of the first three picks, I see
the highest amount of potential for I see the I
guess clearest path for potential to pay off with this player.
Freakish athletic profile, freakish length, freakish size plays. I think
at around two fifty If I have it right, I might.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
No, no, no, no. Landon Jackson is like a two hundred
and eighty five pound dude.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Oh he's eighty five. Okay, So I undersold the shit
out of that.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
My apologize, big ye dude, why aren't you with thirty
three in a quarter arms?

Speaker 2 (47:00):
He has offensive tack of arm length.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Yeah, so I understold this white My apologies, but regardless,
I mean, there's just a lot to like about the prospect.
When you talk about him as a pass rusher, when
you talk about again using a lot of straits to
be able, go go. I'll give you this one.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
No, you were close to the first time. It's two
sixty five. My eyes deceived me and I turned the.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Season to an eight. So okay when I say two fifty.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yeah, So let's split the difference, all right, basically.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Right, I'll live with that. I can live with that large, large,
large human. It would have been funny. It was just
like it's actually three zero two. Oops, uh, what do
you know? Oh well, I was way off speaking of
three thirty. We'll get there. But yeah, Landon Jackson has
a lot to like as far as the prospect goes
for an edge rusher, he fits the bills mold because again,
when you talk about the traits, the length he can
play with for one defense purposes, that's very useful, like

(47:47):
again just being able to seal the edge and you know,
when it comes to shedding blocks, being able to use
the reach to get people off of him and also
use the other arm to kind of disrupt and slow
things down, which is what you want. This feels to me.
If they do you decide to move on from aj Epeneza,
I am not going to say they are going to
because that's definitive. But if they do decide to move
on from Aj, because he only has one more year left,

(48:08):
this is the sole successor. But with upside that, I
think you could maybe see what you saw from Epinez
in the past two seasons, like immediately. That's that's how
high I am on him. Again, we'd have to see
it pay off. It is still something of a project.
I wouldn't call it nearly as big of a project
as some of their picks in years past or upcoming,
but a player that they really got sold on the
traits and want to mold into a stout edge rusher

(48:29):
and run defender. John What do you think about him?

Speaker 3 (48:33):
There was conversation about him at thirty, That's how much
talk there was from people that cover the bills. You know,
over the last couple of months, it just felt like
he just felt like he was going to be a
Buffalo bill, you know. They brought him in on the visit.
He just fits the type.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
I love your.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Ajfanessa point, because he's basically that type of player. He's
got the motor, he has the past rush ability, and
he's got that length. But I think that he has
a little bit of a higher seal, almost an Epanessa,
which is kind of crazy to say.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
I think that at.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Thirty I would have been like, ooh boy, that's a
reach in the second If at fifty two or fifty six,
I can't remember, I would have been like Okay, I
think that he's probably in play there, so to get
him at seventy two was a really big value. I
think that this is I think that this is a
really high upside defensive end with pass rush ability, with bend,

(49:25):
with strength, like he's a maler on the edge, and
like you said, that length for the run defense is huge.
I mean you'd be able to put him out there
and have that arm to be able to get around
the outside, to set the edge, to not allow running
backs to get out around the corner. He does a

(49:46):
lot of things very very well, grades very very highly
in his run defense. It shows up on tape. And
not only that, but the dude bollied Oh my god,
fourth overall quick offensive tackle, no Off Campbell, Campbell, Bill Campbell.
I was I was thinking other Will names. I couldn't
pull Campbell to save my life. Did he havez Booker?

Speaker 1 (50:07):
I thought he did play Booker too, And I thought
was that the Senior Bowl?

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Yeah, he did well against Booker at the Seder Bowl.
He bullied Will Campbell in their game against LSU. And
now you're going to have them going toe to toe
in the AFC East potentially.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
For like eight years. It's going to be great, Like
I love that.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
But Lanna Jackson, I love that pick, especially at that range,
Like I thought for sure he was high on the
radar in the second round for the Bills, and to
get him there at the third that just had to
feel like a gift like that just had to be like,
oh wow, Lennon Jackson still on the board, call that
one in, like we're we're taking them.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
So love it.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
And this is where this is where the vision started
to come together. You're three picks in, You're like, Okay,
we got an absolute burner of a corner, you know,
a four to two speed super athletic position, flexibility, three tech,
one tech sort of defensive tackle, and TJ. Sanders big strong,
long athletic lann and Jackson to go on the edge.

(51:04):
Now you're like, okay, this defense is starting to take
some shape, Like you're restocking the cupboards here with guys
that all have very high upside, that all can be
instant contributors in some capacity. Give me Joey Bosa mentoring
Lannon Jackson for a year, dude, God, that is just fun.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yeah. Yeah, see that's the thing I keep forgetting about
that like I'll randomly remember and I'm like, oh my god,
holy crap.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Like that is there?

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, Joey Bosa signing in a vacuum. I was like, cool, Like,
I really like this. It makes sense. They have the need.
I hope he can stay healthy. Now I feel a
lot better because I feel like they have the buffer.
And when Hoyt got suspended, you know, I was like, shit,
what are they going to do? What are they gonna
end up being like? And then what are they going
to end up kind of going for in the room?

(51:54):
How do they address it? Do they end up with
the random weight round?

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Do you?

Speaker 1 (51:58):
I'm in do they end up going for an around
edge rusher? What I think they ended up doing was
they complimented that large frame and stout pass rush with
the developmental guy that does have, in my opinion, the
highest trajectory of these picks, and I think they're going
to put him in a really good spot where it's
just rotation, rotation, rotation in a crowded room. But that
gives you the opportunity to get him reps without putting

(52:20):
too much on his play early. And I think with
Land and Jackson, the vision is there for a player
that is going to be just insanely disruptive. Again what
he doesn't have, and like the finesse, the bend, what
he doesn't have, and like really the refinement game he has.
It just pursuit and effort and it never goes away.
It neverte he never waivers. He's a player that's going

(52:42):
to continue to try and use power, to try and
use his arms. There's never quit in any rep where
if he gets best and he tries to best you back,
and he tries to use his arms effectively. Again, we
could talk about the chot move that he has, we
could talk about how he stabs, we could talk about
the power that while is not consistent, I think he
could continue to develop and play with actually refine in
a wide edge role. And you know it was mentioned,

(53:03):
I think TP mentioned it in our chat. But talking
about the fact that he played exclusively or almost exclusively
four I at Arkansas. Now giving him the opportunity to
move into different alignments more frequently, and to give him
the opportunity to move out wide a bit more frequently,
and just put him in more positions where despite the
box he was put in Arkansas, the ability to have
alignment versatility. I think there's a lot to be excited

(53:26):
about with Landon Jackson because what I think is kind
of similar to the argument you had about with Texas
A and M. D. Lineman, and like that scheme kind
of holding them back to what we could feel they'd
be in the pros, and that's what people bought in on.
I feel similarly with Landon Jackson, although again I'm not
saying he's the same player as those guys, but again,
if you want to say that four eye limited him,
and maybe there's more to his game and more potential

(53:48):
for him as a pro and a bill scheme that's
going to move you around and mix up fronts and
give you opportunities to succeed. Maybe put him in as
a de facto one or three. That's fun. I really
liked the idea of him and this defense long term.
I think in his rookie year, we're playing with a
really fun rotation of edge rushers and edge setters with Bosa.
And also the thing too, I was very concerned about

(54:09):
bosa snack count because of injury history with run defense snaps,
and I'm not saying Boza is gonna get none, He's
going to get his he's a good run defender, now
you don't have to give him his money as many
you know on run defense. I think now what you
allowed yourself to do is even with the Hoit six
game suspension, you also now give land and Jackson an
opportunity to fortify himself as a run defender, as an

(54:30):
edge setter, and see how good he is from the jump,
And if he's really good, you might not even have
to have Joey Boza have many run defense snaps at all. Like,
if you're playing with the luxury, if this guy is
just a stalwart run defender and he's just ready to roll,
then imagine Land and Jackson getting his hands dirty and
paying his dues as a run defender, getting his pass
rus snaps, and then Joey Bosa is just like a

(54:50):
pass rush specialist, Like could you imagine that dynamic? And
how fun that would be. I love the thought of it,
and I hope that can be that way more realistically.
I think there's gonna be a split. But for Jackson,
the profile, the measurables, the power, all of these traits
are there, and I'm I'm really pumped to see what
this player looks like. I loved the pick. Literally when
they announced it on the TV and they're like third

(55:11):
round pick, I'm like, it's LANDA. Jackson, Like, who the
hell else could it be at the spot, There's no
one else that made sense besides him to the degree
that he makes sense. Like, I love the player, I
love the prospect that was all in on him from
the jump. When I first learned about him and watched
a bit more of him, I thought there were spots
that would have been rich to take him, But I
think where they got him is insane value. And I
think there's a return on investment pending and I like

(55:33):
it so seniable.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Top thirty visit over a nine rass. It's the trifecta.
It's the Brandon being special.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Man.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
I'm telling you, I think that this defense, with what
they did, and there's still another guy that we're going
to talk about to adding to this conversation, you start
thinking about some ways that they might be able to
do a little bit of like a MIBA defensive front.
Like you have so much satility in terms of where
these guys can line up. I mean, man, move them,

(56:06):
have them standing up. Oh, they went around move like
put Land and Jackson right over the guard, put Sanders
out at the four eye, like you can. You can
just toy around with some stuff to confuse offensive lineman
and disguise coverages and and then stunt blitzes off of it,
Like you can start getting really creative with some of

(56:27):
the guys that you have in the room.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Now.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
I think that you added a lot of versatility that
this defensive line has kind of been lacking a little bit.
And then, like you said, you have Joey Bosa in
there for a year, maybe more, but at least for
this year. As basically you're you're a straight up von
Miller replacement in my opinion. It's just your kind of
lower snap count veteran pass rusher. But he's way better
against the run obviously than vonn was. Yeah, yeah, it

(56:53):
gets really fun. Like the more you start thinking about it,
you go, you don't have starters in reserves. You just
have this stream of guys that you can mix and
match depending upon the situation and the play style that
you're trying to go against and the stunts that you
want to run. And like, sure, you might have the
same four guys that go out on the field for

(57:13):
the first snap of the game. But the rest of
the game, man, and the defense, I mean the create
Sean McDermott and and you know, the defensive coaching staff there,
they've got to just be like, oh man, we have
all these toys that we can play with all of
a sudden, let's get creative.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Let's see what we can mix up.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Bill's defense doesn't want you to know what the hell
they're going to do, and they especially don't want you
to know what the hell they're going to do up front.
And that's just a beautiful thing. And alignment versatility was
the theme of this draft really like pretty much every pick,
with the exception of a few that are a little
more boxed into their role. I could say, have multiple
hats that can wear on this offense or defense. And
in the case of Landon Jackson, even TJ. Sanders, you know,

(57:51):
even later on when we talk about Walker or later
on Obi next that is, there's a lot of different
things you can do with these players as far as alignment,
as far as where you have them go, as far
as the role you want them to have, the role
you want them at every to give him play and
then interchange that with your linebackers too, and maybe if
you try to go with some odd mirror or anything
that you feel could be creatively put on to the field.

(58:11):
This year, it's an exciting prospect and we talk about
it every year, but the vision feels really realistic this
year because of how they've composed the rule. And I
put this up because this is a comment I like
from Nick. Shout out to Nick, thank you for watching.
I feel like taking Jackson's oft in the bull of
not taking a big traditional one tea in the second round.
And that's another thing. If they don't want to do
it with the conventional frame or profile, they'll do it
by their scheme. They'll figure out a way to make

(58:33):
it work. And I don't feel like that's necessarily like
them trying to like come back to the league trend
or them trying to climb from a hole. Rather they
just prefer doing it a different way because they feel
the way they want to do it has a very
large upside as far as again turnover opportunity, negative plays,
stuffs things like that, maybe they get gashed, they gash
you right back. They treat defense like a boxing match,

(58:53):
like that's just how Sean McDermott's defense operates. And they
are willing to live in that world, and taking a
guy like Lendon Jackson, who just again has the traits
to be a really productive player on their line, off
the edge or wherever you align him, that kind of
caters into that a little bit more so. I'm I'm
pumped about that back just straight up, that's an A
plus pick for me. I'm just very pleased with where
they got him and what he could be for this defense.

(59:15):
And you know, I see people say like, hey, like,
you know, don't they're not going to move on from
AJ now? I don't they could. The post June first
thing where they save about six million dollars is a
real thing. I don't know if they move on from
AJ right away unless the value is right, But if
they don't, it's just another piece. But we also have
to be mindful of how much how many spots they
can have on the D line and so on and
so forth. So love the Jackson pick. Now we should

(59:38):
move on to the next pick, which is just an
objectively hilarious pick. Like just oh, you either love the
prospect or you hate the prospect. You either just think
this guy is going to be a star, or think
this guy is going to be absolutely nothing in this league.
And that's Dion Walker, who they traded back with Chicago

(01:00:00):
to one oh nine to take meaning Brandon Bean saw
the player falling and reached from one thirty two to
one oh nine to go get this player. So there
is a little bit of pressure on the player only
because of the value this GM had to move up
and go get him. This player is a project. I
am telling all of you that right now, be ready.

(01:00:21):
There are going to be ugly reps. The thing we
should be looking for from Dion Walker is consistency in
his play, is development in a positive direction, flashes the brilliance.
That's all I'm asking for for their fourth round. Freakishly
large defensive lineman. I'm calling him lineman, not tackle, even
though he's aligned as DT. Dion Walker uh in twenty

(01:00:42):
twenty three was considered like a top ten pick. In
twenty twenty four, dropped to the fourth round. Played through
a back injury, so that was obviously going to be
a major factor in many ways. When you're talking about
him being able to get low, him being able to
bend and move, him being able to play with power
like that is a limiting injury so it made the
tape ugly. He wasn't going to not play because he

(01:01:02):
had a draft coming up. He wanted to play and
do his best. So I think that is something you
have to keep in mind. But there are worries I
have when it comes to is he simply just too
freaking big. Is the pad level going to consistently be
a problem. Is he going to play too high and
be too high the entire time, or can we, when
he's healthy, get him low enough to just generate power
from the ground and use the three hundred and thirty

(01:01:25):
pounds of mass this man has to create push from
the interior, maybe even out as an edge rusher, And
all of a sudden, you got a fourth round tactician
that's ginormous and creating insane amounts of opportunity for the defense. John,
I see you smiling. I was. I'm hyped about it
if it works out, I'm so skeptical, like I don't
want to get myself too excited, But there's a vision.

(01:01:47):
I'd say that over and over, but I really see
it with him what you got.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Like you said this was a consensus first round pick
after the twenty twenty three season, he is a early declare. Still,
this was his junior year, this last year, so his
sophomore year in the SEC. He was a freak of
nature and they lined him up everywhere from one tech
to edge. He was everywhere on the Kentucky defensive line.

(01:02:12):
He is six foot seven and a half three hundred
and thirty one pounds with over thirty four inch arms
and almost eleven inch hands. This is a large human
being and you had got him in the fourth round. Yes,
there are concerns about his pad level. He plays too high,
there's no denying, and that's why he's a fourth round

(01:02:33):
pick instead of a first round pick. He plays too
high and when he does that, it really minimizes his
power and his leverage and his ability to generate the
disruptive force that he is capable of using. This is
a project, but he is taken outside the top one hundred.

(01:02:53):
And you know Brandon being talked about it a lot.
They they start watching film a year out. He was
saying that this time last year they were watching film
on twenty twenty three guys, and they were watching Dion
Walker then, so they were very familiar with him for
you know, over a year before this year's NFL Draft
where they knew about him. They loved what they saw.
They had a first round grade on him. They said

(01:03:14):
he was a first round type player. I think I
can I think I'm safe saying they had a first
round gud. He said something along the lines of he
was a first round type player, something along his line.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
So anyways, that's how they viewed him.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
They viewed him as like a first round talent coming
out of twenty twenty three, and then this last year
had a fracture in his back, which makes a very
big difference obviously with your flexibility and your ability to bend.
So how much of it was the back injury, how
much of it is just his you know, natural frame
being super large and he has a long torso, but

(01:03:46):
he does have super long arms. Also, he's just he's
a Frankenstein to put on the defensive line.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
He is just a big, massive human being.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
And if they can coach that up, Dion Walkers unbelievable
upside as a nightmare on the defensive line. We're talking
about that position versatility. Every single defensive alignment that they
drafted has lined up all over the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Place, some more than others. But Dion Walker was.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
Beating tackles as a pass rusher at six seven three
and thirty pounds as a sophomore like this dude can
do a little bit of everything. He's good against the run,
he's good getting after the quarterback, and he is nightmarishly big.
If he can just keep his leverage and if they
can coach that, my god, you are talking about someone

(01:04:40):
that has unbelievable ceiling on the interior of the defensive line.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
So this is where you take the gamble.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
If they use a second round pick on Dean Walker,
I would have been like, oh god, no, no, don't
like that, because you're expecting a second round pick to
be an immediate contributor. Yeah, right there, that comment all
us he's all sec three times is crazy. I mean,
this is a very productive force of nature on the
defensive line, and you're taking this gamble on a fourth

(01:05:10):
round pick with massive upside.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
This is where you take the swing in the draft.
I love it. I love taking the swing here because
if it hits, it hits huge.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Yeah. That's the point I wanted to get to too.
I'm more forgiving of the project working obviously or failing
because it's a fourth rounder. Now, they did trade up.
But this is a fourth round project, and I see
them really trying their damnedest hardest to be able to
get this player to get to that spot where he's
playing with better leverage and not standing up as frequently,

(01:05:42):
playing with better starting position, playing with better technique. But
the thing about Walker is, even if he does it
all the time, I think he's just simply strong enough
as a three hundred and thirty pounder to have his wins.
But I want him to refine it because I do
think that there are times where he doesn't look like
he's three hundred and thirty pounds on the field. There's
times where he gets knocked off, he gets pushed back,
and you're like, how you know what I mean with

(01:06:02):
a frame like that, And it's a balance issue. It's
and again that you would be in part to not
being able to anchor properly or have the discipline to
maintain balance because you physically can't because of your back.
So all that it makes the evaluation of him so
difficult that when you look at twenty twenty three, it's
not because we're looking back to a time where it
was sunshining rainbows and this past year's film was just
objectively bad and there was no factor. You're looking at

(01:06:26):
it because you're seeing a healthy version of the player
you just drafted. And that healthy version was dominant, absolutely dominant,
Which is why I buy into the idea that they
have been watching him for a year, had a first
round grade, saw the opportunity and took it, and feel
that what they just got was the sneaky best pick
of the draft and they're getting an all world defensive
lineman for a bargain. Now that is the wishful thinking side,

(01:06:47):
but I need to see those traits actually come to life. Right.
It's really fun and grand when you have a six
to seven, three hundred and thirty pound player. It's not
fun when that player looks like he's me and getting
destroyed by very large human beings on a field. Because
I couldn't handle the double team in the NFL, but
I would hope that he could. So I need to
see again the levels get lower, be able to just

(01:07:09):
get into that better position, be able to almost look
like he doesn't play high cut or doesn't look like
he's going to get blown off from bad balance, Show
us that you can get lower to the ground, stay
healthy and from there. What I think the Bill should
be doing is just limit the role. You know, I'm
not saying he can't expand as the season goes on,
but make him win at a role in at a

(01:07:29):
limited role to start, and expand it slowly. If we
can do this, and whether it's at one tech, whether
it's at edge, whatever, then we have an opportunity to
get a really great player. But also, and as it's
pointed out by several members of the chat, the back injury.
You know, that's a for someone his age. I worry
about that. I worry about that recurring. I worry about
if his health is just going to be long term

(01:07:50):
problems and we're never going to see the potential realize.
But I am willing to see this through. I like
the pick. There's a lot of risk to it, but
it's a fourth If the gamble doesn't pay off on
a fourth rounder, I don't think it's an abject failure
because I think everyone and their mother knew it's a risk.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
It's a fourth round pick. Fourth round picks, I mean,
you're talking about low hit rates. You're looking for developmental traits.
That's what you're looking for. As soon as day three starts.
You're looking for developmental traits, and yes, some players have
higher floors than others. But man, this is where you
take the swing on the absolute monster athlete defensive lineman

(01:08:29):
for sure. I mean I would love, like you said,
start them off in a limited role, coach him up.
Maybe this is someone If we do bring day Kwon
Jones back for a year, great, We're not asking much
for him. If we don't, maybe you're asking a little
bit more production out of him in year one. But
this is likely your you know, backup one tech is

(01:08:51):
likely the role that I see him filling. Give him
some limited reps to be able to get in there
and muck things up and coach the hell out of
leverage and power Like those are the two things to
coach until you're blue in the face with him. Is
how do you maximize your natural unbelievable traits that should

(01:09:14):
have you poison to be one of the best interior
defensive linement of the NFL?

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Like, those are the traits that you have?

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Yeah, no, I agree with you, go get it. It's
a project, but projects can work out. I mean, I
even think of the bills, you know, when it comes
to defensive line they've missed, but they've also hit. And
I think Greg Russeau is a great example of someone
with again freakishly tall, freakish traits, very little experience, a
lot of question marks because of the limitations to his
starting experience and what it could look like ed. I

(01:09:41):
think he's a you know, I don't call him elite,
but I think he's a very good player in the NFL.
And that's what I like about him. I think I
think that there's or what I like about Dean Walker is,
you know, I see a similar path of potential for him,
just because we've seen them be able to take freakish
traits and make it work. It's not a guarantee, it's
not a short thing, but I can buy into the
idea of why they picked him and really buy into

(01:10:02):
the idea of if it works, because if it works,
holy crap, this is this is a crazy, versatile but
fun player. But I'm like, I'm interested to see what
the role is to start.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
I am not saying this is likely, So please do
not clip me and tell me that, oh John said this. No, no,
all of you looking right at you, no, stop it.
But you're talking about like a five percent to ten
percent chance outcome that you just drafted your Chris Jones

(01:10:34):
like that, you drafted your freak beast defensive tackle that
other offensive coordinators have to scheme the crap out of
Like that is within albeit limited, within the range of
outcomes because of the traits that he has and the
flashes that you saw, especially in twenty twenty three as
a sophomore out.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Of him are so high.

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
Yeah, that that is what that That is what the
Bills are going. Okay, yeah, that's what we're trying to
get that little glimpse. We're trying to get ninety percent
of that ninety percent of the time.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
That that's kind of where I cling on to because
the healthy tape was insane, Like it's not like we're
talking about a player they took in the six that
we're just talking about measurables And Nick says, John just
said Dion Walker will be Chris Jones. Spin says, why
is John sane? Walker is Chris Jones? You can't do that?
Here are these guys do this to me? Now they're
doing it to you. This is the like seeing the

(01:11:31):
tape of the player, seeing the profile of the player,
and then seeing the marriage of the two and knowing
what he can be at full health. That's why you
buy into this too. Talking about like taking a six seven,
three hundred and thirty pound guy in the seventh round
and saying it's literally just size. But this guy hasn't
ever had flashes. This guy has put on what would
be considered first round top ten performances. So that's where

(01:11:53):
you could say there's hype for it. That's where I
have hype for it. But I gotta see it. I
gotta see it. And a guy know the back's healthy,
you know, I looked at up. He's reportedly fully cleared
to you know, participate in camp. He's fully healthy, he
made a full recovery. Those were that was the VERBIDS used.
I don't know the specifics of his injury and how
that heals. So if it's pain management and tolerance, I'm
not crazy about that. Of course. If it is a

(01:12:15):
full recovery and it was just a random injury that
happened and it's not going to linger, then I think
we can go ahead and get you know, more into this.
But we'll have to say and moving on to the
next prospect, and this is one I you know, I'm
I don't have crazy feelings on as much as I
feel like this is someone that you can never have

(01:12:36):
too many of these types of players in your secondary
for death and maybe an indicator of the future of
guys like Cam Lewis, maybe Brandon Codrington. And that's Jordan
Hancock out of Ohio State, the Swiss Army man of
your secondary. He was drafted and taken as a dB
and not as a corner or safety, but he can
play both, can play in the nickel, can play free safety,
can play it you know in a pinch, is a

(01:12:56):
boundary corner. There's an alignment versatility again with this play
coming from a championship defense, a player that I you know,
enjoy being on the roster. I'll never say no to this,
especially on day three. What do you think about him?

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
John, I got what I'm what I'm trying not to
do is just be the overly optimistic person.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
But again, there's so much to like. And you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Someone coming from a championship caliber defense that played all
over the place, that has a knack for showing up
when it matters, like he makes big plays at big times.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
He is very good at stripping the ball.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Going after the ball, even after the catch, like forcing
it to be an incompletion, even when he got beat
to start with. I just think there's a lot of traits,
a lot of grittiness, a lot of compete in his game.
That is probably what Brandon beIN saw and was like
that is awesome, Like that's great. I think that there's

(01:13:59):
there's things there that you see someone that has a
role that can line up at safety, at nickel, at
outside corner. And we're talking again more about versatility and compete,
and I think that that's a really good thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
Oh, also he's super athletic. Over in nine rests. Again, well,
just another.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Green checkboxing for Brandon Bean with the with the athlete
that he is six foot one ninety five four four
five forty one and a half inchrovert almost eleven foot broad.
So you're talking about someone that has aletic traits, position, versatility,
and that can go get the ball and make plays
on the ball when it matters.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Yeah, that's and that's all I'm asking for I have.
It's not because I don't think the player is good.
It's just given the room right now, I fully expect
him to be a lot of people have liken him
to like the new Suran neo, and I tend to agree.
I think this is probably your starting backup Nickel that
has higher upside than someone with cam Lewis that you've
seen a lot of over the past few years. And
I don't think cam Lewis is a bad player, but
I think cam Lewis is probably someone they feel that

(01:14:58):
can interchange with a younger player and not have to,
you know, extend do anything with the contract work. Let
the player eventually go and go get someone from a
very stout pro defense, pro style defense who can now
fill in if Taron Johnson goes down. And you know,
the point I had made was I think life after
Taron Johnson isn't immediate by any means, but I do
think the conversation is going to start relatively soon, kind

(01:15:20):
of like how it slowly built up for Matt Mulano.
I think for Taron Johnson, a couple of seasons and
we're eventually going to be looking for a successor just
because of the nature of his position, the physicality you
have to play with, the hits you take, and some
of the offensive direction of the league that might put
you in more disadvantageous positions against the run that could
lead to more injury as you get older. I like
having Taron Johnson insurance, and if that's all he is

(01:15:43):
to start, that's fine. You know, that's that's something I
am totally cool with. Again, it's not a knock on
the player not being able to become a starter at all.
But when you look at how the bills are composed
and constructed, they're really the path for him is to
take the starting nickel role or I'm sorry, backup nickel
role unless they feel like maybe you know, they like

(01:16:05):
Daikon Hardy has that locked in and they end up
just feeling like this guy is someone that's just a
utility man at all positions. So I don't really have
much else to add on him. I like him, and
I like the pick. There's no real reason to be
mad at it. I do think it was a pivot
from receiver. Like I said, I think Tory Horton was
still on the board at this point and they wanted him.
He went maybe it was pooh Paul at this point.

(01:16:27):
But it's fine. It's a fine pick. Like, there's really
nothing I feel like there's any downside to it. You
know what I mean. It's just a good, tactical, versatile lineman.
John Day three was full of adventure. I want to
talk about this next player specifically and then we'll blend
in the final few sounds good. Jackson Hawes. Jackson Hawes

(01:16:48):
just vibe. It's just pure nastiness. I love this pick.
This is, un ironically my favorite pick of the draft.
I know that sounds so stupid, un ironically my favorite
pick of the draft because of the vibes player brings. Now,
do I think he is the best player we drafted. No?
Do I think he is going to have a super
limited role and he's going to be really freaking good
at that limited role. One, yes, this is one. What

(01:17:11):
the role is nasty as a human.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
First and foremost, Like the movie Draft Day, this is
who you call your pancake eating motherfucker. That is what
he is because he blocks with a tenacity unrivaled amongst men.
Like this is the nastiest blocking tight end, h back,
whatever you want to call him ever. And the role
is you put he and Alec Anderson on the field
at the same time and you say go hunt.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
That's the role and I am for it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Just give me when you want to run that heavy
personnel and we are going to obliterate the defense and
pound them into the dirt with the ground game thirty
times before the third quarter is over. Like, just put
him out there with Alec Anderson, have one or both
of them in motion. Just go just road grade and
lead the way and it is going to be be

(01:18:00):
beautiful inspiring. Like have you seen the clip of George
Kittle a few years ago where he pancaked a defender
and rolled over and was laughing holding his jazz. That's
the vibe that Hawes brings to the Buffalo Bills, and
I am completely here for it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
I love this comment from Pete. A tight end three
can be your favorite player in a draft class. Meeting
people are fun, that's awesome, and it's true. This is
just I cannot see a world where this doesn't work out. Now,
that's it. It could, I guess, but I'm gonna pretend
it won't because again, all we're asking this guy to
do is block his ass off with the very occasional

(01:18:36):
receiver ask and the very occasional red zone ask. Maybe more,
maybe more, Maybe that develops and that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:42):
Could get way, but this is gonna be the guy
at the end of the season when they're like, oh,
we need to get a fourteenth guy at receiving touchdown. Yes,
it's gonna be Jackson Hawlles unless.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
See John Maybe he inherits the spirit of Quenton Morris's
qutch touchdown one Qutch touchdown every year, and maybe he
does that. Maybe Jackson Hawes is the guy that does it.
But down in dirty physical blocker your answer in twelve
personnel if you feel like Dalton kin Kate is just
going to be better suited for eleven as a receiving
tight end, and you go wide formation out of it,

(01:19:13):
and when you want to run, you go with a
twelve p of Dawson Knox and Jackson Hawes. The blocking
is going to be nasty as hell. You're going to
get so much physicality. The downfield nature of this offense
becomes even more aggressive, and he's going to finish the
blocks he has set himself. He wants to take people's souls.
This is a guy that you just when you talk
about the nasty factor of the Buffalo Bills offense and

(01:19:34):
the Buffalo Bills in general trying to be a more physical, respected,
feared team. What better player to get than a guy
who loves just hitting people. It's a perfect pick. It's
someone I fought to the Bills numerous times. I love
this pick so much.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
He's a glue guy.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
I mean, he's like this year's you know, version of
Mac Hollins, Like he's just the glue guy. The personality,
the vibe, like he's just that dude.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
For the offense, I love.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
It, and personally, I hope that his role is similar
to MATC Collins, where his job on Quarterback Sneaks is
to stand behind Josh and signal first down. I want
Jackson Hawes back there doing the overly dramatic first down
signal when Josh Allen plows over somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
Yeah, yeah, well it's just absolute power dominant game. He's
going to be so much fun. Like, just get excited
to watch this dude hit people. Don't look at receiving numbers,
don't look at receptions. I'd love for this guy to
be George Kittle two. Don't get me wrong, that'd be
frickin' awesome because we would love to get a tight
end that can do everything. But this is a guy
that's just meant to hit people, and that's good and
I feel had very big importance in the offense when

(01:20:39):
you talk about death and what it does for the
offensive potential as a whole. And I'm glad they chose
him and didn't reach for a gadget speech to that
might not have had nearly as new as much impact
or blocking prowess. Sue me, I'm sorry, it's vibes. Jackson
Halls is awesome. This is a pick I love if
he just lays the hammer down this year, like I'm
all the way in on this, I already am now

(01:21:02):
John Final three Dorian Strong, Chase Lunt, and Kayden Brayther.
So I'll start with the just the ending too, because
to be honest with you, little I had limited knowledge
going into it. Obviously, once they picked him, I bought
in a little more because I didn't expect them to
go for another offensive lineman. I'm dumb for that. I
should have expected another Aaron Kromer. He checked. So offensive
line was a position I didn't really touch in my prep,

(01:21:23):
just because again we had pretty much every ol returning,
and I felt like even developmental on the back end,
there were people there that they took. But this is
a player that just said also has the nastiness factor.
I mean when he was at Yukon and when they
would run zone. This is a guy that's just laying
again the hammer down is just an apex blocker. He
has a really large frame. I think there's people that
speculate he might be able to transition to guard and

(01:21:45):
I think that would be cool if they felt like
it was a project they could undertake to pivot him
to that position. If they're looking for a nasty player,
that might succeed David Edwards. But who else to do
that but Aaron Kromer. That's someone I like. And then
Kate and Branther again getting a speedster that has gantastic
catchability that can win at the catchpoint. I don't really
know what the future holds for this player, but it's

(01:22:06):
a receiver. Guys, they took a receiver. Now. I was
a bigger fan of Side Felton. The wasn't really on
my radar, but hey, more bodies in the room, John.
Before we get to the final player, my taglines and
I am asking you about these two players and what
you like about them. What do you think the path
is for them?

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Who strong and Chase lunt.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
One Andral we'll get to strong.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
Okay, one great developmental late swing at offensive line. Just
like you said, I think I like him better at
tackle than a guard personally, but I think that I
think that you can develop him that way. I think
that this is Aaron Kromer. I trust Aaron Kromer. Wherever
Kromer sees him, good, cool with me. Chase Lunt is
very fluid athletically. Four year starter at right tackle, so

(01:22:50):
a ton of experience. Didn't allow a single sack this
last year. I think his pressure rate was like just
over one percent. Like he's a really strong offensive tackle
in terms of his production and keeping the pocket clean
and can move and can get out and move, and
that is a trait that this offense likes in their
OFFENSI alignment. They need to be able to pull, they

(01:23:11):
need to be able to go do things, they need
to be able to get out in front. I think
he's the exact prototype that you're looking for in a
late swing at offensive line, and I love it. I
think that you should take an offensive alignment every year.
That's just my approach to it. You should just take
an offensive alignment every year. You can also say you
should take a running back every year for that matter,

(01:23:32):
but we don't tend.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
To do that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
But you should take an offensive alignment every year, especially
to give to Chromer to toy with and develop and
see what role you think that you have there.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
So yeah, love that Prather.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
Not expecting much, I tweeted out a couple of days ago,
this is going to be the guy that we fall
in love with in preseason game number two where he
catches a long touchdown and inevitably ends up on the
practice squad. I'm not really expecting much out of him,
but he is a deep threat. He is fast, he
can take the top off defenses. So we'll see, you know, yeah,

(01:24:10):
we'll see if he it's up to him, that's the thing.
It's up to him to knock the door down. Make
a role for yourself, make it so that if they
can't ignore you, and see what happens. Try to get
a role on special teams and work your way up
from there. It's a seventh round pick. I'm not really
sweating it all that much, but that's you're taking a
swing on athletic traits and a little bit of production too.

(01:24:30):
I think he had nine hundred yards or something like that.
I'm trying to remember offhand, so not a nothing. You know,
this isn't like a two hundred yard receiver that you said, Well,
he ran a four three four forty, so we're going
to draft them. Here's a little bit more to his
game than that, for sure. So we'll see what he
decides to do.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
Yeah, and as far as luck goes, if he stays
as a tackle, it's pure tackle. Like that's fine because
he was pure right tackle at twenty twenty four. It
was literally eight hundred and ninety four right tackle snaps.
One snap at left guard, but hey, one snap at
left guard is something I'll hold on a hat to
his helling me it's possible. Listen, I didn't see zero snaps.
I saw one. Of buying into it, I'm gonna just
lead this train until it derails, which is very like.

(01:25:07):
It's probably future left guard, the future left guard, Chase
lu Hey, if it happens, all look like a genius.
And if I'm wrong, I never said anything, the show
will get deleted. No, I'm just kidding. It's it's a
Aaron Kromer. He checked. They'll do it every year. They're
going to get him a developmental guy. This guy six
eight three h five. At least that's what it's listed as.
It's it's a take it, take a chance, see what
he can do. And and I'm never opposed to trying that.

(01:25:28):
And you know, on a day three if you want
to call it a quote unquote throwaway pick, if they
have Chromer in the room and they're just like, hey,
get anyone on your board, is like, let me get
this kid from Ukon. If that's all it is, it's
all it is, but you never know, and if they
do decide he is a future death tackle. I mean,
you look at the tackle room beyond Vandermark and there's
Grable and it's like, I can put another body in
there just to feel secure. And I mean when we

(01:25:49):
talk about the traits and what you look for as
far as balanced tackle, like Spencer Brown kind of exceeds
it with a great athletic profile and freakish height. So
why can't Chase Lunch? So I'm I'm okay with just
giving him an option, and then for Preather again, the
receiving battle. If they sign Elijah Moore, I don't know
where that goes, if there even is one. If they
don't sign Elijah Moore. Then there's an opening for a spot,

(01:26:10):
and I welcome any competition to it, and I'm not
going to be mad to see the guy get a
chance when he drafted in the seventh, but my optimism
for him making the roster is not high, and I
would need to see something in camp to really be
shown otherwise. But you'd never want to shy away from
it if you still consider it a late need on
day three. So there's nothing wrong with taking the player.
I wish the player's success, whether he shines and takes

(01:26:32):
the final spot, whether they move on and decide, hey,
he's going to go to a different team and maybe
do something there. But that's kind of where I stand
on it. You know, I'm not going to do dig
too deeply into it, only because I just don't feel
like there's much to extract from the pick itself other
than it's a receiver. Let's just take one and being
kind of made a joke about it, but let's go
back and let's talk about the final player that I

(01:26:53):
want to just like really give a little more analysis
to its story and strong and this to me was
like I always expected them and I know I know,
or you know you have thoughts about Dorian Strong. I
always expected them to double dip a corner. Didn't expect
Strong to fall, but he did and we have him now,
and I like him as a coverage corner again, kind

(01:27:13):
of similar thoughts with Harston, Like I just see the
potential of him in a primarily zone scheme, Like you're
gonna have him just be able to read and react
and anticipate effectively and maintain stout coverage. I know he's
not as fast as Hairston, so you might see limitations
and play speeds so matched up with speedy receivers, you
might not want him in that. But if you're talking

(01:27:33):
rotational coverage corner, like especially in a room that has
now Hairston, if he actually has that potential Benford and
Trey White in it, like if this is for death
that can you know sub in whether it's for if
you think he's a better run defender, whether it's just
as a rotational piece. Hell yeah, give me this player.
And I like him as a coverage corner. So I'm
a fan of the pick.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
What do you think, John, I'm gonna be more bullish
than you were.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
This is a six.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
One, one eighty five man coverage corner that I thought
was going top seventy five, and we got him at
one seventy seven, one seventy seven.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
I don't know what the NFL was doing letting him fall.

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
I'm surprised that we took Jackson Hawes over him, but
they must have just been like Jackson Hawes, hell, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
But Dorian Strong, I think there's so much to like.

Speaker 3 (01:28:33):
Listen, he does not check those boxes in terms of
having great athleticism, but he is quick, and he is instinctive,
and he can play man coverage. If there's someone on
this team that's gonna go from being a late day
three pick to developing into a future starter on this team,
to me, it's Dorian Strong. The way that this team
has drafted and developed corners, Benford being the perfect example

(01:28:57):
right now, six round pick same here as Strong.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
I just think that it's.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
It's there for him to grow and he's a gritty
competitor and he sticks his nose in it and run support.
I think there's just so much that they like where
they probably looked at him and they're like, shit, Dorian
Strong is still here, all right? Cool, Like this is
the guy, This is the guy that they brought into
the building on a Top thirty visit.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
They've done their work on him.

Speaker 3 (01:29:23):
They like I thought he was in play in the
second or if they were gonna let him slip into
the third, maybe he was a trade up candidate in
the third round, depending on if we went corner in
the first you know what I mean, Like if we
went with an edge or something like that at thirty,
then maybe they would trade up to get Dorian Strong
or something along those lines.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
But this is I think a great, great fit.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
This is an outside corner, a man corner that is
great against Wrung. I just saw comment about how he
and Hancock are different completely. Yeah, Jordan Hancock can't play
nickel or safety and Dorian Strong is like an outside corner.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
So here very different roles.

Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
They're not like in direct competition with each other for
role on this team.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Just a screaming value.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
I am.

Speaker 3 (01:30:10):
I am shocked that he was there in the sixth
and he's got a great opportunity to be a meaningful
contributor on this team, like in year two, you know
what I mean, like really to work his way up
the depth chart over the next years, so where they
look at him and go maybe he's a part of
our future plans and we need to really consider it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:30):
Tank Ninja here with the Classic Bills late round dB
whispering an, yeah, you knew this pick was coming. It's
it's tail, as old as time song, as old as rime.
They were taking corner at sub Boy, and I was like,
is it Hancock, Like this is a guy that plays
a lot of roles, Like is that their second dB?
And this is your second dB? It's it's Classic Bills, right,
It's it's just a it's a pick that you can
never say no to. It's death, It's it's addressing the room.

(01:30:51):
It's giving yourself insurance if Hairston isn't panning out, and
maybe this player can pan out or be at least stable,
which is really what you ask for. If you're talking
about a player that I think can be a decent
run defender, I think that's there for him. But again,
it's just the anticipatory nature of his game, like someone
that I feel can really be a good floor player

(01:31:12):
for a McDermott defense that's going to try and move
him around and going to have him try to play
from depth and going to have you to try and
stay disciplined and read and react and maintain your zone.
That's a guy. I like the man coverage, you know
what the highs and lows of it, whether from college.
I wonder what it will be like in the pro level,
just because again it's like, if you're facing speedier, stronger
receivers the top end of a team, what does that

(01:31:34):
look like? But I trust dB development more than anything
with this defensive room, with these coaching staff, and for
that reason, I'm all for this pick. I honestly, like
I remembered like around the time that they took this,
and I didn't say it. I don't think I said
it on the show on Saturday, but I was like, damn,
is Kobe Bryant still on the board, because that was
a player. I also really like Zi alon Xander still

(01:31:55):
on the board. I didn't and I had strong also
on my radar. But those are my preferences. But I'm
more than happy with this too. And I think that
for the Bills, like again, you could just never have
too many dbs. It's as simple as that. But for
a guy like him that has a decent frame, he's
not short by any means, you know, not the heaviest
guy in the world. Not the fastest guy in the world,
but I think it's just a perfectly stout, serviceable corner.
There's no real reason to hate this pick, and you

(01:32:16):
got it a great value, So for that reason, you know,
I hope he can play it to like third round potential.
That'd be fantastic. But even if he's just a rotational,
solid corner, I think this is a guy that's probably
gonna take a roster spot from like Dame Jackson, probably
take a roster spot from like JaMarcus Ingram, and then
you're gonna wind up with like a room of like Johnson, Hairston,
ben Ford, Strong, and White, and I think that's a

(01:32:38):
pretty solid room if they play to their potential. And
that's all I got, John any final thoughts on the
class as a whole, anything that you want to just
mention before we sign off for the evening.

Speaker 3 (01:32:50):
I just think the biggest takeaway is value. This was
just a value filled draft at direct needs, and I
don't know what more you can ask for than that.
If you're a fan of this team, they had traits
in mind that they wanted in terms of we want athletes,
we want size, we want speed, we want athletic players
with production at direct positions in need, and they went

(01:33:14):
and they got that they had a few guys that
they loved, so they traded up to go get them,
and they kept just nailing value picks, Dorian Strong being
in my opinion, the biggest example of that, But same
thing with Lanna Jackson. Value picks shouldn't have been there
at seventy two and was sitting there waiting for them.
Dean Walker was a value because of the injury. Like

(01:33:37):
three four of these players that they took, you know,
were probably around too late like they should have been.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
They should have been long gone and they were sitting
there waiting for them. So I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:48):
Obviously, we don't know what the production is going to be,
and this goes back to what you said at the beginning,
where you're trying to correlate production and process. The process
of this I loved and I think that the approach
to it was great, and now we just got to,
you know, root like hell for these guys to be successful.

Speaker 1 (01:34:08):
Every position that they address made perfect sense and was
a need. So I'm very when we talk about it
just from that standpoint alone. I love the draft like
I love it. There's no complaints for me about how
they approached it when they went very defense heavy but
also fortifying and double dipping and making sure that there
are bodies in that room. And then for me, like
for offense, like go get an Aaron Cromer heat check
on day three, Go get that tight end three because

(01:34:30):
Morris isn't coming back, it seems. And then if you
could find a receiver somewhere in the mix, do it.
And if that's earlier, good, If it's not, okay, like
we'll figure it out. And there's still some options in
free agency that we could do it with. I think
for me, I'm happy with that. Where my questions lie
again is the variance of the prospects and what that
looks like. How do they develop. They bet on a
lot of traits, which is good because traits matter, but

(01:34:52):
can they coach them up to their full potential to
create a class of impact players that shapes their defense
and their impact on the rest of the league for
the next five years four years if they can do
so and they really get the most out of what
they got based off their traits, and it's not just
projects that are failing, but rather players that you can
make stable four to five members of your rotations at corner,

(01:35:13):
at D line, even at safety in the case of
Hancock or Nickel corner. That will be you know something
we'll find out in a few years. But I am
very pleased with the fact that they attack those needs
and if the trades pan out, we're going to see
the most impactful Bills draft quest. I think in the
Bean tenure outside of Josh out like, I like that
is to me that what can be. That's the upside,

(01:35:34):
the upside of like years past that has always been
you could get great players, you could have a great class.
This one is there is like a like a realistic
path for every single one of these players to live
up to potential and be just again massive long term
contributors mixed with the valued contracts you've got. This is
a being draft that he had to get right. I

(01:35:54):
think fundamentally position wise, he got it right. We'll see
if the player profile aspect of it and the Tracy
banked on come to fruition and we end up getting
what we really always wanted for this defense and hopefully
the Super Bowl as a result. John the one I
appreciate that one. Oh Go Go ye last, we're both
long winded people.

Speaker 3 (01:36:14):
The last thing that I want to say is that
I came on your show probably in February when we
started doing some mocks and we started looking ahead at
some stuff, and I said, this time next year, I
just want to be talking about one player that turned
out to be a damn stud, right, And.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
That's just what I hope to see.

Speaker 3 (01:36:32):
Like, I hope that there's a lot of contributors and
guys that met kind of their draft slot and their
contributions expected to this team. But he drafted players, especially
those first four, that have huge upside. And if one
of those four guys turns in to be a stud,

(01:36:54):
If Maxwell Harriston turns out to be a stud corner
on the outside, if Landon Jackson is the biggest screaming
value pass rusher in this class, if one of those
guys turns in that that type of profile after year one,
God being crushed.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
It absolutely you just need, like really, you just need
one and then hope the others are okay or fine, fine,
I'm sorry that this is really good. I just came
from Twitter. Did someone say Dial Walker is the next
Chris Jones Loo? Get what you did? John, you're gonna
got you. Guys are making them leave even though we're
about to sign off. I agree with you that this
is this is a pivotal draft, right because they just

(01:37:29):
got out of their old guard of defense, and this
past season was the retool where they were put in
the spot where they couldn't fully send it on the
defense the way they wanted to write, whether it was
pick limitations, whether there were other pressing needs at different positions.
It didn't feel like you had a draft last year
where you could just sit back and just throw it
at defense over and over. And also the D line
draft just simply wasn't as deep as this one was.

(01:37:51):
This draft was where you could full send it and
feel comfortable doing it, especially after the results of the playoffs,
to where I am like, yeah, love the philosophy. Just
nail nail it, just nail it. Get us guys that
can be here for years in the future where there's
no debate about whether they should stay, clear cut, defined roles,
players that people will buy into, where you never have

(01:38:13):
to wonder if they should move on for cap space
like I want. I want these players to pan out
more than anyone else. But again, the direction they took
is a risk, so the risk needs to pay off
for Brandon Bean. And my final thought is, despite all
the d line talk, John, I have not given up
on Dwayne Carter. I know a lot of you, and
I get it. Rookie season wasn't great. Rookie season, he'd

(01:38:34):
probably tell you, wasn't his best right injury and inefficiency
and some knockback. I haven't given up on you, Duane Carter.
Just know this, I go down with the ship or
I rise with the tide. Show out next year. Man,
if they're giving you that one tech spot, put that
damn weight on. Let's get some strawberry and crustables in
the regiment. Let's freaking do it and nail it. And
if you don't, I'll still love you. Anyways, Thank you

(01:38:56):
all so much. I appreciate you, John. This was so
much fun. I love conversations about the draft with you.
You're a hell of a guy. Awesome analysis. Give the
good people anything you want to share with them, what
you got going on where they could find you all
the good stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:39:12):
On the platform formerly known as bird app at John
Helmcamp just started doing a little bit of freelancing over
on SI as well, so go look for the SI
Bills content over there. You get some some analysis from
me over on that page, doing a little bit of
writing about some other teams too, here and there, but
obviously the Bills have my heart. Yeah, let's hit it up.

(01:39:32):
And hey, you know what, the twenty twenty six NFL
Draft starts now, it does start now, it's always Prospects.

Speaker 1 (01:39:38):
Already sent me a quip of Clemson's d tackle and yeah,
we're rolling. It's like I saw the clip someone posted
from ELF. It's like, all right, let's make preparations for
next year's Christmas, like right after Christmas happened, ups draft season.
Draft season is Christmas, and we are starting Christmas early.
John again, thank you so much. Guys. Check out everything
he's got going in following on Twitter if you can.

(01:40:00):
He's just an awesome follow He'll give you great tweets.
He supports the team like it's someone that's worth your
time and attention. And that's why I get him on there.
For me, I'm going to hang the banner that says
Joe Revoir. Again, everybody, thank you so much for tuning
into tonight's episode. It means the world to us that
you check us out. If you could like share this
video and all of the great content we got coming

(01:40:21):
from Disguis coverage, the film room, see one buff Air,
Raid Hour, everything we do on this network. Please show
it your support if you are interested or if you
just like our channel, hit subscribe if you haven't already,
do what you can to grow this channel. We just
hit the hundred k mark. Eric's got the plaque. It's
super cool. I am just honored to be a part
of something that is continuing to grow and have so

(01:40:42):
much success, and it's all because of each and every
one of you that supports. So thank you, thank you
for tuning in for watching. My name is jobdah Rosa.
I'll be back next week with another episode. As we
begin our preview of the AFC conferences, each team, each
one of their roster turnovers over the offseason, in what
the outlook is for each one of them, I am

(01:41:02):
bringing on a specialist of each conference, a representative of
one of the teams, to go over them with me
in detail, to look at our contemporaries and see ow
they shaping out. I am so excited for this and
I hope you guys are too, and that will start
next week, but for tonight there is dinner to be cooked.
I'm gonna go eat it. John. I am sure you
probably are hungry or at the very least want to

(01:41:23):
way down or something or enjoy the rest of your evening.
I'm gonna let you go do that. I'm gonna let
you all go do that. Say thank you one more time,
see you guys soon, and as always, go Bills.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Reacting to the Buffalo Bills 2025 NFL Draft Class! | UR