UPA - Ron Hyde Encounter

Join Ben and George Simpson as they present the long lost interview. Never heard in 50 years. Ron Hyde was riding his motorcycle from Sydney to Melbourne, when he encountered a landed craft and occupants, on the Hume Highway near Albury Wodonga, on the Victorian/New South Wales border. This episode will air in America on the 55th anniversary of this extraordinary encounter. Not to be missed!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Australia, the sixth largest country onEarth, an ancient, rugged and unforgiving
land with abundant animal life, bothbeautiful and deadly found within its own inspiring

(00:24):
landscapes and natural beauty. Exists adeep history of unexplained mysteries for anyone with
the courage to investigate them. Tonightwe joined Ben on a journey across this

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vast island continent in search of answersto events that have reshaped the lives of
so many that have been exposed tounexplained phenomena. All stress with your host
been her, Good to everyone,and welcome to another episode of Unexplained Phenomena

(01:15):
Australia. Tonight. We've got areally intriguing episode for you Tonight. We're
going to be looking at the veryinteresting case of a man called Ron Hides,
who on the twenty fourth of Augustthat nineteen sixty seven, had a
truly extraordinary encounter on the Hume Highway, which is the main highway between Sydney

(01:37):
and Melbourne, at about five o'clockin the afternoon, when he encountered a
landed UFO or craft with two occupantsoutside as he was riding his motorcycle just
outside the town of Aubrey, righton the New South Wales Victorian border.
So this case has been absolutely anincredible case, and it's really been lost

(02:04):
to time because it occurred so manyyears ago, and an interview that Ron
has done in the year of theencounter has been unearthed. Now, I
grew very interested in this case whenI was young at school. I remember
reading a little bit about it,just the basic outline of it, and
even today you can go online tovarious websites and find a basic outline of

(02:30):
what actually occurred to Ron on thetwenty fourth of August nineteen sixty seven.
So it was my first experience throughschool, and I've always been on my
list of cases to have a lookat and to get involved in again.
And one day I was talking tomy good friend and fellow researcher George Simpson,
who I had on the show abouttwo weeks ago. And as I

(02:52):
was talking to George and told himabout my interest in the case and what
a great encounter it was, Georgethen said to me that he had a
tape with an interview that Ron haddone in October nineteen sixty seven. Now
this is significant as the recording wasdone so close in time to the actual
events when it was definitely fresh inRon's mind, and that comes out very

(03:16):
clearly in the interview. The interviewhad been found on a real to real
tape in the possession of longtime ViewForce member Les Bristol. So tonight,
George is going to join me andwe will present this to you in full.
This is a long lost interview andhas not been heard in over fifty
years, not by the public andcertainly not by a twenty first century audience,

(03:42):
and it is very compelling listening.So with that, I would like
to welcome George. Hello, George, were you very well? Thank you
for joining me again on tonight's SoI'm very excited to be talking about this
case, and I was very Iwas very happy when you mentioned to me

(04:04):
that you actually did have a copyof an interview that Ron had done.
Well. I was surprised because thename that you mentioned about the case matched
the tape I had just been listeningto. Because I was playing a real
to real tape and digitizing it soI could put a bit of modern day

(04:25):
magic on it to tide up thesound and make it sound a bit better.
So everybody can listen to it,and it's a pretty good recording and
with a bit of tweaking, it'scome up pretty well. And yeah,
I had been just doing it inthe last few days before you mentioned the
case, so of course I said, yeah, well, we've got a
tape of that. It's an oldView Force tape. And I was a

(04:46):
committee member of view Force for eightyears and this came to me through through
through this. It's an old realto real tape and it's it's really but
good. Maybe we should just introducethe story now. The thing is,
I'm not one hundred percent sure Inever met Ray Fisher, but Ray Fisher

(05:09):
was one of the early guys inView Force and he owned this real to
real tape recorder and he went aroundinterviewing a whole lot of people. I'm
pretty sure it must have been him, because he would have been with the
tape recorder. And it doesn't soundlike it's not Peter Norris's voice on the
tape. It's not Peter Norris.I'm pretty sure it's Ray Fisher. He

(05:31):
sounds like a very a typical Australiangentleman of the nineteen sixties. So they
had almost a British sounding manner tothem when they were very highly educated people.
Yes, and of course people toget into interview with her researcher normally
very highly educated people, aren't weyou know we are locally chance yeah,

(05:55):
yeah, we're all fully qualified ineverything, of course, yeah, certainly
highly intelligent as well. You know, well, you'll hear this guy.
He sounds like a bridge you knowhe might have or if you listen to
the ABC radio in those days inthe sixties, all the radio announcers sounded
like they were coming from London,you know, like going from England.

(06:16):
But anyway, so you'll hear you'llhear him talking on the tape. But
you'll hear the motorcyclist, the rodtalking about what's happened to him. M
very Australian, really a good Australianvoice, rather than talking about how about
you run a bit of it?Well I've listened, yes, yeah,

(06:39):
well I just yeah, just quicklybefore that, I'll just give people an
orientation just on where this occurred.Just a couple of brief prick pictures.
So this is a map of Victoria, Australia, Melbourne being the capital city.
Down at the center there and wherethat red dropper is is the town
of aubrew Donga, which is atwo towns that run across the Victorian and

(07:01):
the New South Wales border. Sothat's that's where in the state and where
in Australia this particular incident occurred.So I'll just show you that for now,
and I've got a couple of otherimages I might be able to bring
up as we go along just that. We'll also show that a little clear
as well. So idea. Yeah, so I think we'll just launch straight

(07:21):
into it. So so George andI are going to play a piece of
the tape, then we'll stop it, have a bit of a chat and
keep playing and we'll just see howwe go. So here we go.
I'll start it now on the sixtiesof October nineteen sixty seven, regarding the
sighting of no identified flying object southon the twenty fourth of August nineteen sixty

(07:44):
seven, Ron Where exactly did yousee this object? For the highway?
What were you doing with the gun? Bring a motor between and Melbourne?
Who of Melbourne? Yeah, that'swhat I think. How far where are

(08:05):
you from with Donga at the timeof the striving? What time was it
go Was it five o'clock? Itwas? It was light, pretty light
at the time. The sun wasstill out. I had been running earlier.
I'd stop it all be for aboutan hours till the rain stopped and
that cleared up very well in thatarea. That was quite a clear blue

(08:26):
sky with clouds on the horizons,but none above us. Was it windy
at the time, No, there'sno wing. Was the sky completely overcast?
No, it was definitely clear abovewhere I was. How did you
first notice the object? As Isaid, I was doing about seventy mile
hour and I was suddenly surrounded bya very very bright, bluish white light.

(08:48):
It was so intense it was hardto see out of it. It
was a sort of a circle oflight around me, and would have been
I'm only guessing it was for aboutthirty feet I should imagine diameter of the
light itself. And naturally I lookedup to see where the source was,
and I was so intense the lightabove me that I was virtually blinded,

(09:09):
and so I had to stop thebowling. Was the light shining on you
in a beam or was the lightsort of generally over the countryside surrounding you
No, it was just over me, just right over you know. Whatever
the source of the light was wasdirectly above me, shining down and over
me. Does it light up theroad there? Oh yeah, it's very
bright. There's a road wet ordry? It was try What did you

(09:35):
do then, Ron Well? Istopped the boy and took the sunglasses off,
which I was wearing at the time. They're only just an achieved pair
of plastic minds and not polver oranything, and white eyes. And for
some reason I looked off the roaddown to my left and there was a
disc shaved object. I first appearedto be on the grin, but after
looking at Philo, I realized it'sabout three or four feet above the grin.

(09:58):
Would have only been about a hundredaway from me. When you were
driving along before you stopped and youfirst saw this light, could you see
any object? No, there was. There was just a vague suggestion of
something above the light, but itwas so good. Only looked at it
for a fresh of a second.I couldn't couldn't see, you know,
and it was right above you atthat time. It was directly above me,
but I couldn't say it. Whathight? There's no way of knowing.

(10:20):
It's just so so intense. Soyou stopped the bait, wiped your
glasses and had a look, andyou saw an object off to the left
of you in the paddo, becausethat's right. It was slight downhill from
the road. It would have beenabout three or four feet later road level
where the thing was. And Ileft the mode of the boat going stuck
it up on the on the centerstandards, you know, the standard,

(10:43):
so if you can leave it there. And I was wondering whether or not
to go out and have a lookat this scene. I stood there for
quite a while. When I sayquite a while, a minute or so.
It could have been two minutes.It's hard to time. And then
the car went past, and Istepped down from the right into sort of
a colored thing where on the sideof the field, and I sort of
heard the Karen. I tried tostop it the point I kicked out,

(11:03):
but he went past. And thenwhen I came back, or when I
looked back at the thing, there'stwo figures that appeared on my side of
it. So I'll just pause itthere. George, do you make of
that so far? Well, firstof all, I'm very glad that the
very beginning was muffled. But itgot clearer, didn't it. I was

(11:26):
thinking, oh, no, thissounds terrible, but it got very clear.
You could hear it now. Sothat's just how it was the original
tape. Interesting. I mean,he's describing something that's very large and right
above him while he's riding this bike, very very bright, and he's looked
up and it's so bright. Nowhe had to stop riding the bike because

(11:46):
it's basically overloaded his eyes. It'sblinded him, and he had to It
was not safe to write a motorbikeif you can't see. Yeah, you're
hitting off the bike. You're goingto come to a stop. So he's
done that, and then he's,um, he's on the side of the
road, and then he's seen somethingthat's landed on the ground. What did

(12:09):
he say, a couple of hundredyards away or something from him? Yeah,
he says one hundred feet and Ithink that's about yeah. Well,
and it's it's about five o'clock inthe afternoon or something like that, wasn't
it. That's a day a daylightevent, and he's riding solo on the

(12:30):
motorbike. Oh, he did onething that's one of my pet hates.
He said he put it up onthe stand and left the motor running on
the motorbike. Yeah, well that'sprobably so he can make a quick escape.
But I hate seeing idling engines,especially diesels. But that's just me.
I hate them. You got toturn those motors off if you're not
driving, turn them off. Yes, anyway, I think I think he's

(12:54):
wanting to m Yeah. I thinkhe would have done so because he could
escape exactly. Yeah, so he'sthis thing, you know, and he
talks about this very calmly, aswe'll see when we continue. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, further, I'llpress play the car that went past.
Do you think you could have seenthe object from the road. It's hard

(13:18):
to say, but I doubt itunless they're looking in that in that area.
I doubt very much. They mayhave just seen something, but going
past yet to put the road thereit's now, I'd say it wouldn't soon.
Whilst you was stopped, how manycards do you think passed you on
the highway, Well, there wasonly the one that went past that I
tended to stop, which I hadno hope. I couldn't get the road

(13:39):
fast enough and then they may havebeen others go past after that, But
I was too intrigued by the thingto notice how far off the road was
the object. Well, it wouldn'thave been much more than hundred feet.
This was This was a grassy area, paddocked area, farm area. It
was. It was a paddock tolook as that have been used to graze

(14:00):
sheep or cattle or something like.This is no trees stirring. The newest
three would have been about two hundredyards away. It was just an open
expense. Were there any animals inthe paddock at the time, No,
there was no animals. No people. Man, I think there's me.
Could you see any homestead from thefrom the area you were out, Not
from where I was, but upthe road a bit another two or three

(14:22):
miles up the road, there wasa homestead on the left for the well
off the right. But what didyou do after you got off the bike?
You were standing watching the object andyou saw two figures. Yeah,
I didn't see them come out ofthe object. It was quite obviously belong
to it. And we just sortof stood there and looked at each other
for a while. I presumed thatlooking at me, though facing in my
direction, and then I took astep towards him to see what's so reaction

(14:45):
it again, and the two figuresdid exactly the same thing. That's incredible,
isn't it. M Yeah, Iguess he was would have been fairly
surprised too. He's his figures.He's talking about, well, basically what
humanoid looking creatures, not animals,but little people that have resembled humans.

(15:13):
I guess yeah, And he's talkingabout, well I would I would be
doing exactly what he is doing,and I would still be standing there.
And he's kind of so he's sortof in this little Mexican standoff, sort
of a situation. At the momentwhere he's standing, they've seen him.

(15:35):
He didn't see them appear, butthen the next minute, there there they
are, two of them, fivefoot tall, clad in an entirely a
skin tight uniform with a fishbowl typeof helmet. He's taken a step to
see how they'll react. He mighthave been hoping they would step back.

(15:58):
That they stepped forward. He steppedforward. They step forward. Wow.
Wow, let's let's keep listening toYeah, you have to be pretty sure
of yourself to do that. Iguess, yeah, I think you're right.
And we sha were there for awhile longer, and I was wondering
whether the turnt out and run orgo across and see what was doing.

(16:18):
And one of the figures took twosteps towards me quite slowly and raised his
hand and back on the over tohim at this stage of panic, and
died back on the bike and tookoff down their own Could you see any
opening in the craft, any dooror passage or ladder of any sort.
No, there was nothing showing whatsoever. And how far do you think the

(16:40):
object was off the ground about threeor four feet? Did it'd stay at
a constant height all the time thatyou watched it. Yes, it didn't
murve, it didn't didn't make anyNo, it didn't do anything. It
just sort of hovered about the greenAnd son Kenny was getting back to these
figures, whether they what sort offigures were they? To describe them as
eagly as you can remember them,well, they are about five to five

(17:03):
and a half feet tall. Icouldn't say for sure even most I was
a big classed I say between fiveand five and a half feet tall,
completely covered from neck to from neckto foot in a sort of a silver
cover. But it was a veryvery tight fitting thing. There's no steams,
no creases. It almost looked likeskin. Including the hands and the
feet were covered in this. It'sjust because though somebody sprayed in the silver

(17:26):
paint or listener, did this materialreflect like a silver sheet? Ordered?
Did it look like a silver cloth? Silver cloth? That didn't appear to
be reflective. Um, it wassimilar to an unbuffed chrome in an appearance.
It didn't appear to be on chrome, but the actual texture or the
color of it was like unbuffed cromes. Had no reflective quality. You know.

(17:48):
Could you see any joints in thematerial at ale? No, there
was nothing muchever. How about thebeing's feet, No, they just had
this discover appear to extend over theirfeet the whole lot. I know.
Well he couldn't see any shoes.Um, well these there may have been
a soul on this. It justlooked as though the thing had a zip
r up the back, which Icouldn't see them. They stepped into it,

(18:10):
and it's head, shoes, cloves, the whole lot all in one.
How are they built heavy slight?Well, I'd say what we call
a medium built. Those didn't appearto any excess that it might be consume
that got fat, but it didn'tappear. Just put it away five five
foot five. This is the wayI'd like to be thought. I see
the hands of these beings. Couldyou see that that just some separate fingers

(18:36):
or was it completely covered in thesilver material? Now this I took notice
of it because I had seen Ihad seen them move, but arms,
legs, and hands, and theyare exactly the same as we are in
joints in the distance between joints.I can't say about the head because it
was covered by a helmet of somedescription, and it may have had a

(18:56):
transparent area in the front of them, but the rest of the helmet an
opaque finish. Just pause it therea very detailed description. Yeah, yeah,
well he was. When you're ridinga motorcycle, it's like you're going
to war with the rest of theroad users. You have to be alert.

(19:18):
You have to be well awake andalert and very very observant about everything
because your survival depends on it.And so he's pulled it over the bike
and he's looking at everything, andyeah, he's just observing what he's recalling
what he saw. Interesting that theyabout the helmet and the tight fitting,

(19:41):
almost like it looked like it wassprayed onto them kind of. That's a
tight suit. Interesting stuff. Yeah, it is, and it's quite a
common reported type of suit too throughoutUFO history, like particularly during that fifties
and sixty seventies type of period,there's lots of silver suits and helmeted occupants

(20:04):
appearing in different crafts and always withthat skin time, almost like a second
skin type of appearance. Well,what occurred to me just in that little
segment too, was he didn't saythere were any legs going down to the
ground from the object. It wasjust holding there. You know that movie

(20:25):
The Flight of the Navigator, Thatobject just hovers. There's no leagues to
the ground. It's just there andyou know, the steps come down,
but there's nothing supporting them either.That was Hollywood, but it was well
done. But he's describing something that'sso far different to anything we know.
You know, we would have aleague with a wheel on the end of

(20:47):
it, you know, hasn't gotanything. It's just sitting there, not
making any sound, and it's rocksolid, just sitting there. Very interesting,
very interesting. Yeah, I'll keepplaying. Yeah, And I couldn't
see into it. Could you describethe helmet or thoroughly as a designers saying,
you know, and sort of whatsize it was in relation to the

(21:10):
normal head? About half as largeagain perhaps you know, bet half is
large again just like a fish,Just like a fish, Bob, it's
completely rare. So it came roundat the base of their necks, knot
to their shoulders. The cover athing went to there, went to neck
and this and this helmet seemed tofit down over the thing which was which

(21:33):
appeared fantastic because quite obviously they couldn'tdrag the thing off. It wouldn't fit
over their chins, had to provesaying, somebody, they've got the same
sort of features of what we had. And even between the helmet and the
cover, I couldn't see any joint. I presume it must have been,
but I couldn't see him. Thishelmet was the same color as the games
that they were wearing. No,it wasn't. It was a graysh It

(21:57):
was more of a gray same sortof same sort of texture of a grayish
color metallic. It's hard to say. I couldn't say It could have been
metallic, It could have been somesort of a plastic substance. You know,
how they looked at same. Butit seems strange to me that I
couldn't see into the helmet doing soclose to it. You think that if
there had been a transparent part atthe front that I would would have noticed

(22:19):
this it was a helmet the samecolor all over, or was there any
difference in the shade of the helmet, for instance, in front of we
think their eyes would be No,it appeared to be the same all over.
There was no face plate or anythingover, none that I could see.
But thinking about the about the helmet, that would have been possible for

(22:40):
a transparent part to be in thefront of it without me seeing it from
the angle we were. Because whatI find so interesting about the way he
describes the helmet, it's almost likethis suit is kind of like a what's
the right word. It's like it'salmost it's almost part of the body,
or most like the helmet. Thehelmet. He couldn't st get around how
the helmet and the neck were attachedto each other. Like it's a really

(23:03):
extraordinary description for what I would calla uniform and not what you would encounter
in a in our world. Ohwell, it's it's reminding me just listening
to it. It's reminding me abit of the astronauts when they were on
the moon. They had the suitswent up to their neck. They had

(23:25):
a large ring around that when theyhad a big helmet on top, and
the lighting was such that when theywere on the moon you couldn't see their
faces inside it, and they tookthose photographs or you got was a reflection
of what was in the environment wasreflected. So it could be a similar

(23:45):
effect like that. Perhaps it's likehe's not he's not seeing some strange looking
person looking at him, is heHe's just seeing the arms and legs of
the body and at this brown helmetand the armed gesture was beckoning him to

(24:06):
come over, and he's thinking maybemaybe not. Yeah, But he's a
very good it's a very clear description. And this is one of the things
I like about these eyewitness cases.You know, the skeptics will always say
people are really bad at describing thingsor remembering things. Memories are really terrible.

(24:29):
Dis guy's memorizing very clearly what he'sseeing and give you very clear description
and he's thought about what it wasand he's trying to figure it out.
He's an intelligent guy, you knowhe's not and you've got to give this
guy some credit. You know,he's given very clear descriptions of something he
has never counted before. And hesays, it looks like it could be

(24:52):
a plastic, it could be ametallity thing or a ceramic. He's not
sure. It's got certain proper whathe needs that he can describe, but
he can't say for sure what theyare. So he's very intelligent. Yeah,
he is, he is. Andthat's one of the things that I
really love about about this encounter isjust how he almost he's kind of almost

(25:15):
detached from it because he's not extremelyemotional about it. He talks about it
in an extremely rational way. AndI think that for such a high high
strangeness encounter, his description of itis extraordinary. And I don't think I've
really heard something like it myself.There might be other examples out there,

(25:37):
but his description is very, verythorough. Yeah, Yeah, he's pretty
good. Yeah, let's say next, let's let's keep on. Let's let's
let's not dilly dally what's behind me? On them? I think it would
have been possible to have just aclip piece of glass in the front.

(25:59):
I still would have soon it.So the helmets were really reflecting more than
the gamuts that they were wearing.Not reflecting so much. They seemed it
more absorbed light and reflect light.But they had a m It's very hard
to explain it. Not a reflectivequality, but they seemed, as I
said, to hold the light,but not reflected away from them like a

(26:22):
mirror high polish metal does. So, I mean the craft was of a
high polish medal quite obviously reflected light, but the sets didn't. Even though
they were brighter than what they wouldhave been in a dark room, you
know, they wouldn't have wouldn't youwould have seen them in a dark room.
They still seemed to somehow sort ofhold the light. We'll put it
this way. I can't I've neverseen anything like it before. This is
sort of absorbing light quality. SoI can't compare it with anything. I

(26:45):
know. It's very hard to findwords because there isn't any right did you
ever see these figures from the rear? No? Only front views? Wow,
it's interesting, isn't it? Yeah? Very clear description? Yeah,
I mean, the way it talksis that you can you can actually see
what he's saying. Yeah. Yeah, and he's saying that this helmet is

(27:07):
absorbing light rather than collecting. That'sinteresting. No, No, if we've
got anything that's quite like that.No, I haven't heard that before about
about a suited occupant being described inthat way, that it's absorbing light,
not not not not shiny or reflectingit, because you often hear that about
craft themselves. Was lit up likea billboard, but they don't cast shadows.

(27:32):
So there's some interesting qualities to theseto these materials that they're being used.
This is nineteen sixty seven, Yeah, some kind of dynamic going on
there that we don't know about.No, so this is just one one
year afterward, in the next yearafter Westall happened, Yes, exactly.
That's a really good point. Yeah, just straight after, Yeah, within

(27:53):
the next twelve months from Westall.This is a major you know, closing
out with with occupants on the ground, so you know people was pretty close.
Yeah, and really close, yeah, exactly, extraordinary close to him,
you know, amazing. I'll pressplay from the side only from the

(28:17):
front. I'm only surmising it.They were the same as well. I
didn't see them from the side,but if they hadn't been fifteen feet thick
or something, it would have shoutup. What distance were they from you?
Again? Well bother taking the distanceI was from the bike and what
they were from the craft, Iwould say no more than eighty feet,
perhaps even seventy feet. Did theyat any time speak or shout to you

(28:41):
or emitting the audible sound? Nowat this stage I hadn't hadn't heard a
sound either from the craft or fromthe two figures. How did you feel
at the stage? Run Well,for some reason, and it's not in
character with myself, I was extremelyfrightened thinking about it, reasonably frightened.
I mean, it's understandable I wouldhave been a little bit apprehensive or something,

(29:03):
but not not to the point ofwell, versely sheer terror, which
I felt when this when this personbeckoned me over to them, and thinking
about it later, I wasn't awareof it at the time, but thinking
about it later, it seemed tome that there was that the craft or
the people or something in the areawas was sort of sending sending this way

(29:29):
like a radio wave, which Icouldn't feel within the senses or touch or
smell or something. But it's seemedto be radiating the sphere. I don't
know. This may have been areason for the contact to see what sort
of a reaction would this would bringabout. This He might ordered a panic
reaction or fear reaction to this.Start immediately you stopped the bike, Before

(29:52):
you stopped the bike. Afterwards,how to sort of begin and how to
build up now, quite definitely onthis. Before the figures appeared, I
was well adversely made up my mind. If if they hadn't have appeared,
I would have gone over the objectand how to look at it. And
it wasn't until up I looked awayfrom the object and looked back and saw
the figures that this this this fearimpulse. Okay, that's the that's the

(30:15):
end of part part one. Soyeah, really really really incredible stuff.
So this fear he's talking about,this fear impulse. You know what that
reminds me of. Remember when ChaseColessi came out here and she was talking

(30:37):
about they went out into that fieldwhere the things had been seen flying around,
and they thought there might have beensomebody hiding in the bushes, but
there was this sort of a theynoticed this really like something was generating a
feeling that they all picked up on, and it was fear, and it

(30:57):
was like it was put upon themso that they took out, took off
out of there exactly. Have Ye, that's a good that's a good analogy.
That's a really, that's a that'sa really that's a really good comparison.
And I think that he's you know, like we all say that we'd

(31:18):
love to stand there and you goup and meet the aliens, but it's
not necessarily going to happen that way. Yeah, or if it has,
they may generate it's a safety mechanism, something to make you turn tail and
run, make you frightened. Mit's almost like a vibe fear machine.

(31:41):
A vibe you feel fear, yougo, you get out of there,
absolutely, And it's almost like there'sthis it's almost like it's an experiment between
him and them as well, likethere's this there's this sort of like you
they take, he takes it.If they take a step, Um gets
raised up, beckoning, and it'sjust it's just really sort of interaction that

(32:07):
occurred. So I'll start um,that's all right, Yeah, let's have
a listen to the next. Butwhat's you going to say, now,
Well, let's let's have let's havea listen. So let's go back a
little minute. I apparently haven't gotthis quite straight. When you first saw
the object on the ground, therewere no figures, No, there were
no figures when I first saw it, And as I said, before I

(32:30):
looked away, I was going totry and wave the carding that went past
it fast and putting it up ona road quick enough. I duat if
you would have stopped anyway, beinga motorcycles and all of us. But
it wasn't until I look back tothe craft the second time that the figures
were there. I didn't see themget out of the craft. I'm only
somebody, and they belong to it, we say, quite obviously, just
buy their dress that I didn't seethem leave the craft. I just looked

(32:52):
back, and then they were standingin front of the thing, facing that
far away from the craft were theywhen you first saw them, about ten
feet in front of them. Andthis fear reaction sat as at that stage.
Well, it's hard to say exactlywhen it started, but I became
aware of it after I'd taken thestep. I didn't become aware of it

(33:15):
then, but thinking back on itnow, I realized when it first hit
me it was after i'd taken thestep towards the figures, and they'd done
the same, and they copied theaction you took the initiative first year,
were the first one to move.Yeah, well, at this stage,
I was just purely curious. WhenI first saw the thing. I'd heard
a little bit about flying source,it hadn't taken any interest in them,

(33:37):
and my immediate reaction when I firstsaw it was well, as a flying
source, So now we know theyexist, and I wonder what it's doing
there and will I go over andhave a look at it. But it
was just purely curiosity. As Isaid, if this fear reaction hadn't said
in after these figures appeared, Iwould have definitely gone over to the to
the source or the discot if youwant to call it, and how to
look at it. Have you everfelt this sort of fear or panic before

(34:00):
or in any other situation. No? Never, Well, just just a
for instance, I've been racing bikesfor a few years and to feel fiel
or panic or fool in the race, trake this was an unreasonable fee.
You couldn't you couldn't fight against it. No, it was completely out of
character. It was it was justlike an animal instinct that I wanted to
do was hop on the bike andrun away. You know, which is
so, isn't it? Isn't thatissue? That's exactly That's an exact reaction,

(34:23):
isn't it. Yeah. Well,also he said something else there.
It was quite interesting. He said, he races motorbikes, so's he's you
know, he knows what he's doingwith his bike. He knows how to
ride. He's a very very proficientmotorcyclist. He races motorcycles. Well,

(34:45):
if you're racing a motorbike, youare so alert. When you're going even
faster, you're looking at everything aroundyou at very rapid speed. You have
to to survive. And this thingisn't moving or doing anything, and he's
just standing there. He's taking onestep and all of a sudden, he's

(35:07):
got this great feeling of fear that'sovercome him and he just wants to jump
on the bike and get out ofthere. Yeah. It's just the very
interesting and the only other UFO encounterI've heard of where anybody has said that
this fear ran through the people?Was that when I mentioned board, Chase

(35:27):
said that that happened to them.Yeah, really, really very interesting.
A lot of these things don't getinto the reports, do they. I
don't know. I notice that you'renot going to read online when you when
you go to a to a webto a web page for a snapshot of
this particular case, you're not goingto you're not going to get that.
This is what the interviews will giveyou. Yeah, okay, we'll keep

(35:52):
going play it away. Yes,you know it was possessed by that was
completely unreasonable. Let's go back againto the what we're talking about. A
moment ago, you took a steptowards the figures and the object. What
did they do? Yeah, wefaced each other for a minute or so,

(36:15):
and I was still curious at thisstage, and I took a step
towards them to see what they do. And then they took the same step
towards me. After I'd taken astep, they bass took a step towards
me, and then we just stooda sort of a star mate again for
a while. And then after beingin this position for a while, it's
suppose a minute or so, itcould have just been five seconds. It's
high to sign. But then oneof the other figures took a couple of

(36:37):
steps towards me and beckoned the otherand it was at this day, is
it just absolutely sheer panic hit me? That's when the sheer panic hit him.
I wonder if that's um that lookthat could either be explained by being
a psychological reaction that suddenly came tohim that I could be in danger here,

(37:00):
or it could be that they've gotane of method of making you keep
your distance, I make you havethis fear. Maybe it's just a natural
fear reaction. Maybe absolutely. Look, I'm not a qualified psychologist, you
know, I studied psychology, butI I dropped out of UNI. I

(37:25):
didn't finish my cause. But soI can't really say definitely, you know,
was was this a psychological reaction?I think if I was there,
it would be a psychological reaction.I hope you're getting out of there,
wouldn't you. Yeah? Absolutely,And listening to listening to it around no
exactly right, And listening to Ron, he doesn't seem like a sort of

(37:49):
guy who scares easily either. Solistening to the way that he talks.
He doesn't strike me as he's amotorcycle racer. He worked in the hotel
industry at the time, and hedoesn't strike me as someone who would be
easily scared. Well if his racingmotorcycles is either insane or very very very
good nerves very good nervous type.Exactly, let's continue. Could you describe

(38:21):
thoroughly exactly what the object looked likeat the stage? Yes, it was
well, so to use a descriptionwhich has been used before, it's the
same as one source of punk ontop of the other. I've had a
dome affair on the top of it, which would have the object would have
been about twenty five thirty feet across. This is at its widest point.

(38:42):
The dome on the top or cabinwhichever you like to call it, Bryant,
we'll call it a cabin. Itwould have been about the base of
it would have been about a thirdthe width of the object would have been
about seven or eightfully high, Ithink. And then on the top of
his cabin there was a flat spoteight inches two feet across. It sort
of tapered up from the from themain hull of the thing. And then

(39:06):
on this flat section on the top, there was sort of a little bubble
about a foot across those base abouta foot high or something. Was this
raised portion on the disc the samecolor as the disc itself. Now it
wasn't at the top of the discwas a very very bright polish metal,
the same as chromium. Now thebottom of the disc was Now the top

(39:28):
and the bottom were divided by whatappeared if you could imagine a metal band
about four or six inches wide,which quite quite a dark gray disappeared to
go right around the object, andit was that was to the ground.
It was vertical if you're following,if you understand the description. So it
had a flat edge, which,yeah, it had a flat edge.

(39:51):
Now, the base of the thingwas either a brown or or a black,
a very dark brown or a verydark gray or black, and protruding
from the bottom of the thing therewas there was well, it was the
same diameter as the cabin, directlybelow the cabin, and it was about

(40:13):
eight inches two feet from the holeat the bottom. Do you think the
bottom of the object was brown orreflecting the ground. No, it was
definitely the color of the thing becauseit was grass around there. It was
green grass. Yeah, the bottomdidn't appear to have any reflective quality or
this this thing protruding from the bottomof it. It was a very very

(40:37):
dark and definite black that stood outfrom the rest of the thing. Now
the cabin of the thing, itwas also silver, if you could imagine.
The top section of the saucer fromthe widest point was chrome. And
they'd only buffed the actual hull itselfand not buffed the cabin. This is
the appearance of it. The littlebubble on the top of the dome.

(40:59):
Was this the same color as thedome, Yeah, it was. And
none of the object appeared to betransparent to There's no transparency whatsoever. And
on the hull itself. This ison the brightly polished part of the hull.
On the right hand side, therewas the start of what I'd say
it would be some sort of insigniathat appeared to be painted into the hole,

(41:21):
but I could only see the beginningof it because of the curvature of
the hull. I couldn't make outwhat it was, or I couldn't reproduce
it. Did The object remained completelysteady during the time that you watched it.
Ordered it isolated slightly. Now itjust stayed there. There's no rock
steady, there's no movement whatsoever,and no noise anyway. After I took

(41:43):
off on the bike, or Ithink I was, to get away from
the thing, and then when Iwent away from it all the panic soon
to subside and I started thinking rasciallyagain. And at this stage I was
doing well over one hundred mile.My bike's capable of just one hundred and
thirty mile, and it was doingthis at this stage. Now I heard
a hum which I hadn't heard fromthe thing before. And considering how I

(42:05):
was doing well over one hundred milehour with a crash at an engine noise,
exhaust noise plus the windown throw mycrash at one hundred and thirty mile
one hundred and twenty mile hours everyI was doing at the time, it
must have been quite loud for meto hear it. So I straight away
knew what it was. Don't askme how, And I just knew what
it was because I never heard ofhummut this before. And I had a
quick look around and sure enough itwas. It was airborne. Now it

(42:25):
was about two hundred feet away fromme to my left, about one hundred
foot off the ground, and itwas following following me. When I say
following me, as I got arounda corner, it had come around with
me. It was keeping the samedistantrument regardless of how fast or how slow
I went, and as I followedthe road. At this stage it was

(42:46):
a pinkish color. The whole craftsoon to be surrounded by some sort of
a pinkish film. Although I couldsee it clearly, it had a pinkish
appearance about it to so the airwas hot around it or something like this.
It was the air around the pinkishtoo, or just the object.
Well, at first I thought itwas the object that after looking out for

(43:06):
a while, I think it wasactually away from the object. It could
have just been the surround the airthat surrounded the object itself, which had
this color too. Was it rainingat the stage of the sighting or was
it still clear now? The sunwas still out was reflecting off the object,
so you could see this pink glowaround the object and also the sun
reflecting from it off of the topthe top part of it. How far

(43:30):
away from it it was the objectof the stage while whilst it was in
flight, it kept the exact samedistance all the time. I'd say,
well, I'm a reasonably good judgeof distance. I had no training,
you know, I'm reasonably good judgefrom racing bikes, mainly from breaking for
corns and things. And I'd saythat would have kept a constant two hundred
feet from me in a straight lineand about one hundred feet off the ground.

(43:50):
But this fairy because of the drone, was this flat turrone there or
hilly? It's reasonably flat that youget the usual ups and the answer that
you were in any compy area.Did the object at this stage have exactly
the same look as it did whenit was on the ground starring the color?
Ye is that the lower portion wasstill recruiting from the bottom of the

(44:13):
dish. Yet the basic is stillthere, and it was still yet playing.
Anyway, I realized that the thingwas quite obviously following me, and
that a god was going as fastas it was possible for me to go,
and I couldn't get away from it, so I started slowing. Then
I'm looking for somewhere to go,like a three or hid under a rabbit
barre to dive into, or ahouse or something. Now and eventually stopped

(44:35):
and the objects stopped, with mestill keeping the same distance away from him.
I less resigned myself to the factthat it was after me and it's
nothing I could do to get awayfrom him, and so I just sort
of sat on the bike the matterstill taking over, stopped with arms started
and watched it to see what itwas going to do. You see,
I expected it to come back,of course, that instead of coming back,
it sort of sat there for aboutabout thirty seconds or say, with

(44:57):
nothing happening, and it began tochange color. It was a gradual change
from a pink and it got toa very very bright and deep red.
It finished up. It went rightthrough the whole red spectrum, and so
it was quite hard to look atthat. I hurt the eyes to look
at this. It was so bright. And then it tilted at its base,
actually it tilted at the top ofthe disc away from it about a

(45:19):
forty five degree angle, so Icould see the base. And the funny
part was, I thought this thingwas so bright. The black area in
the bottom of it remained black allthe time. It stood out very distinctly,
you know, And then all ofa sudden, without any noise whatsoever.
I could still hear the hum atthis stage, but when it stopped,
it appeared to just about go away, because as we slowed down together
and the hums seem to remain constantly. Now I was slowing down, and

(45:42):
so I presume that the faster thethings going louder at hunts. This is
only most surmisings, of course.But the tilted the base away from me
after it reached his very bright redand all of a sudden it excited.
I had an absolutely fantastic ray forit left at a fantastic spence. It
didn't accelerate. It was one minuteit was stopped, and the next minute
it was doing something like two orthree thousand miles an house away from me

(46:05):
and up at about a forty fivedegree angle, and there was still no
noise whatsoever. The harms stopped assoon as the thing started moving, and
it just went, but there wasno acceleration like you'd expected a plane or
something. It starts from norton asstaring accelerated. It was top speed.
This one minute this thing was stopped, the next thing it was doing two
or three thousand miles. And yeah, this is only a guess because I'm
no expert on splue, far fromit, but it was going way faster

(46:29):
than planes I've seen. We shouldbreak on the sound barrier, and there
was still no noise. There's nosonic bloom, there was round nothing this
banished. If it hadn't gone atraction plast I would have just thought it
disappeared. I could make it outthat it went up, but only just
it happened so fast. At thisstage, just before it left you,
was the bottom still a brownish coloras it was on the ground. The

(46:51):
whole thing was bright red, barringthe section in the part at the bottom
itself. This is the thing itwas protruding from the bottom of it.
This was still black. The restof the thing that are very very protrad
Casting your mind back to when youwere driving along prior to stopping near the
object, was there any noise atthat stage associated with it? None that
I can remember. There could havepossibly burn at the time, but with

(47:15):
a bright light or I wasn't reallythinking about noise to be cautious and laser
when the object was in flight.Did you ever exhibit the same characteristic as
earlier in the sighting and shone abright light anywhere around now there was starring
that the light coming from the OPEC, which was, as I said,
a reddish color. There was noother light whatsoever, nothing like what hit
means, whilst you were traveling alongthe road you left the object. Did

(47:40):
you pass any cars or did anycars pass you going in the opposite direction.
Yeah, A couple of cars camethe other way, and I waved
like mad and pointed it was thething. This is after the objects reappeared.
Before it reappeared, I wasn't worryingabout stopping anybody. But when it
reappeared, I waved like mad andall sorts of things, and I got
some funny looks, and that's aboutall I got. Nobody stopped and nobody
appeared to the Okay, what doyou think the total time duration of the

(48:02):
sighting was from the first moment thatyou saw it until it finally left.
This is hard to say, butI'd say roughly about five minutes. There
could have been three minutes, andit could have been ten minutes. You
know, I wasn't looking at anywatches. Have you reported this to the
Air Force or any investigative bodies suchas the local police. I didn't report

(48:24):
it to anybody else righting to ridiculeit, quite honestly and just sort of
further laugh at it. It wasonly through a very man about means that
I reported to Degnos when you firststopped and observed the object closely, wouldn't
it have been a more normal reaction? This was some sort of Air Force
secret weapon and these were Air Forcebeen dressed up in a type of space

(48:45):
suit. Sorry, but the AirForce has got nothing of books like that
or did with that this face.It made no noise, It was hovering
off the ground and I've never seenanything shape like that before. Now it
didn't come from here. You werepositive when you first saw the object.
As soon as I saw, Isaid, well there's a flying source,
and now you know they exist.I'd sort of been a bit skeptical before

(49:06):
and hadn't taken any notice of it. But after seeing his sickna exist?
Or had you ever read anything previousto the sighting onlying sources or burying a
couple of newspaper headlines in city whenthey had the source and the things I
think with somewhere around Liverpool. NowI haven't taken any interesting I've just sort
of I haven't haven't laughed at themthat I haven't taken any active interest in
and WHATSOV read no books or anythingprior to this. I know. We

(49:30):
sort of let that play for afair while. But we will get this,
Yeah, we will, We willget all listened to one episode,
so I liked how he described thatat first, but it was flying around
near him, was a sort ofthe air around the object went kind of
a pink color. That's pretty interesting. I think there have been a few

(49:51):
cases sum that sounds to me likethe air was ionized or something like that.
You know, yeah, it couldvery well be affected by a very
high electively charged electronic or electric fieldaround the object. You know, then
that would describe a changing color.And there are other people that have said

(50:14):
things like that, like at theWestall case when Paul Smith said that the
thing he saw changed its color,it went through different colors, and it
was like it's in city, orit's it's it's density changed, he thought,
because it went through trees without affectingthe trees at all, but it

(50:35):
had it could change its density.Now, it's interesting. He says that
he heard this humming noise while hewas riding the bike but he turned around.
He's going over a hundred miles anhour to look at the thing.
That's a bit risky, you know. He must have been a very experienced

(50:55):
motorcycle racing rider to be able toturn at one hundred miles an hour and
not come off. Yes, I'mbadly glad he didn't come off, you
know. But he's seen this,Yeah, he's he said, it's gone
an intense red color the whole objectexcept for this black ring at the bottom

(51:16):
of it. That for a fora physicist, that could be very interesting
information for any scientists listening to theshow. Any physicists with an interest in
the subject. They won't be talkingto their friends about it, but they
may have an interest in this.This kind of eyewitness description can give us

(51:40):
a lot of clues, I reckona lot of clues about the physical reality
of these things. Absolutely, it'sa very very good report of what happened.
Here is Ron's actual drawing. Thishas not been seen, if at
all, many many so this isthat's his actual actual picture of what he

(52:00):
saw. And he can see thatmonogram that he said was just out of
sight for him. Yeah. Yeah, that all very much matches up to
what he actually said, and whenit was over him, when it was
flying above him, this is whathe this is what he saw looking up
at it from below. Yeah,right that other side of that other sit
that first one there you he's gotthat band around the middle and it's as

(52:22):
a saucer on top of the otherslaw soer and the black thing is the
thing at the bottom, the samesize as the kind of dome bit on
top. It's really very very interestingand it's very light, very similar to
the thing described by the Westall witnesses. Yes, yes, I haven't seen
this sketch before. No, thisis a really good sketch. It's an

(52:45):
amazing illustration, a great sketch.And yeah, and his signature when he
signed off on his pro forma thathe'd done for you forth, that's that's
his signature. So really amazing.And I want this out to be the
approximate location of where it occurred,ten miles outside of Aubury, as near

(53:09):
as I can find it. Thisis the area where he had the encounter,
just so people get a bit ofan idea on what the highway actually
actually looks like. Well, likeyou said, it was pretty flat,
but just the usual up, it'sups and downs. Did you get as
you go across the country, Yeah, exactly, so again again a very

(53:32):
good description of the area. Yeah, yeah, really fantastic. So thank
you very much George for joining meon this episode. And I hope that
everybody's found it really intriguing as muchas you and I have. It's a
very good case, very very goodcase, and a very good description.
Yeah, it's been fun doing it, Ben, it's been good. Thank

(53:52):
you so much. And we willget together again at some point and perhaps
discuss another case down the track.So it's really good, and yeah,
we really do hope that you enjoyedthat show. Fascinating place. By all
means try and find some more informationon it, but this really is the
probably the most detailed that you'll everfind that on this particular very intriguing case

(54:14):
here on Unexplained philomen of Australia.So until next week, thank you so
much for joining us.