#24 - FORGIVENESS (Part 1) - Unreligious

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is called forgiveness. Forgiveness is more than say and sorry,

(00:20):
to forgive his divine So let's have a glass of
wine to the end of time. Time time, time, time time.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Welcome to the Unreligious Podcast, where we spread the love
of Jesus without judgment, my laws or traditions, just raw faith,
real talk, and the word of God. I am Chris
and I am Big. That would be my producer there
throwing that video in for you guys. Dude, you did
it again. I was not expecting it. Now I'm gonna

(01:08):
expect it next week and it isn't gonna be well.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
I figure I'll throw some little random just ice breakers
in from time to time, you know. I did the
the the humbleness one or whatever, but it's kind of
like the I guess they're kind of like anti versions
of like whatever we're talking about. But that was I
had to heavily edit that too, by oh I know,

(01:33):
but uh yeah, that's from that movie. I think it's
the movie Just Friends. But it's just funny because she's.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Like, yeah, forgiveness, and the whole time he's like, oh
my gosh, stop yeah, but uh but yeah, no, it's yeah,
I like, I like to mix it up a little
bit from time to time, just to throw you off
some you know.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you definitely throw me off. Like
I said, next week, I'll probably be sitting here going, Okay,
here comes the video and it'll go right into the music.
I'll be like, where'd the video go?

Speaker 3 (02:03):
You know, But, uh, how's it been going well?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Considering it's only been a couple of days. Yeah, going good.
Like I was telling you before we went on to record,
got an offer on our house. I won't go into
specific details with all of our listeners, I'll just let
you know it was way way, way way way under asking,
so we couldn't bridge that gap, so continued prayers that

(02:27):
the Lord put the right person in that house that
wants it as bad as we did. But other than that,
man good.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah. This one was weird because, like we it so
we had like an outline for notes, but uh, we
recorded the last one like two days ago, so it
was like, uh today, you know, we were kind of
like scrambling or whatever trying to get ready for this one,
but not it. Work's been. It's weird because work slowed
down a little bit, so you know, it's I'm kind

(02:57):
of in that mode where I sort of have to
slow down a little bit with work, otherwise I'm almost
cutting my hours too much. But it's been nice getting
off at a decent time and not being super just
like plowing out by the time, you know, because sometimes
I'm racing in here on two wheels trying to get
ready for these or whatever. So it's nice to kind of,

(03:19):
you know, be able to hit a little groove there. Also,
my balls are playing Round one of March Madness, which
I believe they have it in the bag, Yes, seventy
seven sixty two versus Wafford, which you know, it's first
round stuff, so hopefully they'll keep pressing. Although I will

(03:43):
say that balls basketball will break your heart if you're
a basketball fan or a balls fan in general. But
you know so well football, yes, it's it takes a
little You got to have a lot of dedication to
be a fan of the balls. Although right now they're
in one of those weird stages, so they're Baseball is
tearing it up, although they just got beat by Etsu

(04:05):
the other not they were undefeated like I think seventeen
and oh or something. But the baseball team won the
Natty last year. But it's weird because tip like, so
right now, all the valls are good essentially across the board.
They're good at men's and women's basketball, baseball, hockey.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Even.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Football. Like, they're good across the board. They just most
of the time can't finish. So I'm hoping the baseball
team kind of broke it open a little bit last year.
You know, we'll just start stacking them. But you know,
it's probably not gonna happen. But hey, you know that's
you just that's where you've gotta have faith, right, It
can't go smooth all the time.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, you know, when Audrey and I first moved to
Tennessee from Wisconsin here, I mean I was always, you know,
growing up in the Western States in Arizona and California,
I was always all about the NFL. Collegeball over there
doesn't mean a whole lot. I mean, it's okay, but
it's not like like you know, in the East or

(05:05):
the Southeast. And when we first moved to Tennessee, we're like, Wow,
they're really into their college ball here. So we decided
to go. Her company reserved a tailgate area down there
at the stadium every year when they played either Georgia
or Alabama, and we decided, oh, we'll go down to

(05:28):
the tailgate party and check it out. And it was like, dude,
after we went to that tailgate party, it's like, hey,
let's go to the store and get some balls stuff,
you know, maybe some pass and some shirts and how
way we could fit in. And then we started getting
into actually watching the games. But it was heartbreaking, dude,
because it was like watching the Dallas Cowboys all over again.
It's like every time I got into it, they'd never win.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, you know, they were really really so like when
former was there, you know, they were pretty good consistently,
and then when he left, you know, they they brought
in Kiffin and Blaine Kiffin like he coached for one year,
made all these big promises, and then he got offered

(06:12):
the job at USC and like left in the middle
of the night basically, and they were like burning mattresses
and stuff down in the middle of the street there
on campus. But and you know, and so then it
was like each coach they brought it so they kind
of had to scramble to find one because they wouldn't
expect him to leave. It was like each coach they

(06:33):
brought in it just got worse and worse and worse,
and so finally they got Hippel in there, which Hippel
won the Heisman or no, I'm sorry. He won the
national championship as a player, and he was in the
running for the Heisman when he played, and so he's
really turned it around. But honestly, the athletic director is
really what turned it around. He's just kind of a
gunslinger or whatever. But they're good across the board. But

(06:57):
I mean, when you're talking about building like a championship
program him, it just takes some time. I'm sure there's
like some other SEC fans or like college football fans,
it's just like the balls are terrible, but you know
it's my team, you know.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Man. No, I just we never,
uh never really got into the sports the college scene,
and like I said, until we went to Tennessee and then,
I mean, you can't live, especially in Knockville area and
not be a false man. That's just you can't. It's
it's geographically impossible to live there and not get sucked

(07:34):
into that, you know what I mean, It really is. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
I mean, you know, I had a buddy one time
that that's kind of how he was as well. You know,
he's from North Carolina and used to I mean couldn't
stand you know, couldn't stand the balls, you know, and
then he moved here and then kind of, you know,
sort of got one over a little bit, you know.
And I think his lady was a balls as well,

(08:00):
which helped. But uh, yeah, it was Yeah, it's just
I don't know, dude, it's like a way of life.
It's you know, college football is is like religion to
a lot of people, whether they're religious or not. And
then you know, and you always hear the old adage
of like where you know, uh, you know, some of

(08:20):
y'all sit here there in church and you're trying to
stay awake and you just can't get excited. But then
when you go watching Balls play, you'll lose your voice.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
You know, we just cases.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
But it's like, uh yeah, no, it's I mean, and dude,
you know, I've talked about it before, but I basically
made the Balls my idol, you know, before I relign
my priorities and stuff. But I mean that's kind of
how it was, dude, Like before I really started going
to church and focusing and and actually walking and trying

(08:51):
to attempting to walk walk every day. Like, dude, we
had that big loss in twenty twenty two where like
it was looking like we may actually make a national
championship run, and when we lost the South Carolina and
basically blew the season. Dude, I got like so drunk
and hungover that I almost missed my family's Christmas photos,
you know. And my wife was like, well, we're taking

(09:13):
the photos with or without you, so you know, you
need to sober up or whatever, and uh, that was
kind of a wake up call, but yeah, because I
was literally like, dude, you got you almost missed your
family's Christmas photos because of a football game, Like what's
up with that?

Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know? Yeah? So on a side note, what'd you
do for Saint Patrick's Day?

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Nothing?

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Nothing?

Speaker 3 (09:36):
No, I mean I I don't even know which day
Saint Patti's Day actually was, honestly, dude. It was like
I think it was like Monday or Tuesday or something.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
But no, we didn't.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
I didn't think it did anything of work or anything.
But uh, used to I would have done some Irish
car bombs, but I don't drink anymore, so you know,
that's what I used to do.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
We got to talking about that, like my heritage, we
did the twenty three and me thing, you know, and
and did our DNA, and my heritage is like literally
ninety Scottish, Irish and Sex and Viking. So my family

(10:18):
has always like Saint Patrick's Day was always a big thing,
and I just cannot see having a Saint Patrick's Day
without a big old pot of corn beef and cabbage.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Just do normally my work, they cater it in, but
for some reason they usually I don't know if like
one of the big bosses is Irish or something, but
normally they'll do I think it's corn beef and cabbage. Uh,
And then I think they'd be like some kind of
potatoes or something with it. But uh, you know, think

(10:55):
Patrick's Day was really never a big thing for us,
which is funny because if I'm not mistaken, I'll look
it up to make sure. But I think Saint Patrick's
Day is actually based off of Saint Patrick, who, if
I'm not mistaken, I think he was a Christian martyr.

(11:16):
You are correct, I'm gonna look it up, but uh,
you know, but like I was talking about that with
somebody the other day and I was like, dude, I
don't even know what Saint Patty's Day's about other than
like drinking and stuff like, oh, he's actually like a
Christian martyr. And I was like, oh, you know, if
you learned something new every day.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
I guess I can't remember if he was Christian or Catholic,
but yeah, that's the right that's the right track. But yeah, dude.
So my mom came over and my sister, well my
sister didn't, but my mom came over. She got the
corn beef and the cabbage and the potatoes in the
in the pressure cooker and started cooking it. And then
what my mom does is she'll take the corn beef
out of the pressure cooker and she puts it in

(11:54):
like the pirates, like glass baking pan or whatever, and
then she makes this glaze out of you ready for
this brown sugar, pineapple juice and clothe and what she'll oh,

(12:15):
I'm sorry, and mustard.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
It is an interesting combination, dude.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
She takes that and then she spreads it all over
the top of the corn beef after it's been pressured,
and then she sticks it in the oven and it
like candies. The top of the corn beef. It's like
candied corn beef. Dude, I can't explain. It's Oh my gosh, dude,
it's so amazing.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yes, I need to try that. I mean, you wouldn't
think pineapple and mustard and clothes would go good together.
That's why I'm intrigued, dude.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I'm telling you. She puts it on her hams too.
When she when she bakes a ham, she uses the
same thing. Yep, she bakes a ham. She slices the
top of the ham, you know, and she'll check her
board the top of the ham, and then she'll make
that brown sugar clove, pineapple juice and mustard and she'll
mix it all up and she'll brush it over the

(13:12):
top of the ham and throw it in the other
Oh dude, it's so good.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Dude. That sounds really good. Yeah, I was kind of
looking it up. It does.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
It said he was a.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Christian missionary who traveled to Ireland to basically try to
preach to the Pagans. Because that's just what Wikipedia said.
I believe he was like brutally martyred, though. I think
that's why we celebrate it, because it was like, I
don't know if he's like burned at the stash. I
don't find that or whatever. But yeah, no, it's I mean,

(13:48):
I guess that's that kind of puts it a different
perspective into it. It's like, oh, well, you know, I'm
not start paying more attention to Saint Patti's Day. We
just turn it into a drinking holiday, you know, good day.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
I mean, that's what he used to be for me.
Like mom and my wife and all of us were
sitting in the living room having our dinner, and I said,
you know, typically I would either have a Black and
Tan next to me, or I would have a Guinness
next to me, or I would have a Chillian's or
even an Irish car bomb. And my Mom's like, oh,

(14:20):
what's that? So I explained to her what an Irish
car bomb is, and I told her, But you know,
I'm glad that I'm not there anymore because now I
can actually with the food tastes, like.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, it's like, you know, there was some good times
with all that, but it usually laid the more bad.
But the first time I ever had Irish car bomb
was actually that was at our party, our the at
the truck driving school there. Oh really at the boat. Yeah,

(14:52):
that was, yeah, the boat when remember we took the
boat out on the Tennessee River or whatever and drove
it around for a while, one of those like party things.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Or wasn't the something the Princess Vall or something like that. Yeah,
it was like all boat.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, well yeah, it was like one of those big,
massive like boats with the different layers or whatever. But yeah, no,
that was I never heard of it until then. And
then I think I still have like a on my
I don't really use my YouTube page anymore, but I
think I still have a video where at one point
where I did how to make an Irish car bomb

(15:29):
and it got like a crap ton of views, but
like everybody was making fun of my poor but I
had tried a few of them and to try to
get the consistency right, so by the time I did
the video, I was kind of in But uh, yeah,
it's just it's weird because I feel like that all
that stuff was so long ago that it's like I

(15:50):
had some good times along the way, but it usually
led to more bad than good, like you know, yeah,
even like the you know, the times that like me
and my wife, you know, we would go out drinking
for Saint Patti's Day, and it's like it always ended
in some kind of like argument or like there was
never any good that really came from it, you know.
So I don't miss it at all. It's like it

(16:12):
I can tell stories about it now and not be
affected and stuff. But like, I just I just don't
miss it. But it seems so weird and foreign to
me now.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Dude, you know, yeah, yeah, me too. Like you know,
here in Sheboygen it tip on a typical Saint Patrick's Day,
my wife and I would have been out out on
Michigan Avenue or Pennsylvania Avenue. You know, there's just bar
upon bar out there, and I mean we would have
been bar hopping all night long and feeling terrible the

(16:41):
next day. And I'm just glad that I don't have
that urge to do that anymore.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, in Knaggsville it would be you know, Market Square,
but uh yeah, I used to drive a taxi there
for a while too, and it's just it's I don't know,
it's just it's weird, how I guess if you have
that bleed, it's fun Nowadays, I'm like, you know, I'd
rather sleep in, But so tonight's episode is on forgiveness.

(17:10):
By the way, if you guys have a question or topic,
prayer request, whatever, feel free to submit it to the
Unreligious Podcast gmail dot com. Whenever we start getting some
of those, like I'm trying, I try to save them
if I can. Some of them are just too good,
but we like to try to work that in towards
the end. If we can follow us on YouTube, Instagram, uh,

(17:34):
you know, at the Unreligious Podcast. And then we also
have a tea spring which I will put a link
to that in the description, and then we're gonna go
ahead and pray and get started, and I guess I'll
pray us in. By the way, if you guys are
listening to this, keep praying for me.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
I talked about this a while back, but I had
completely quit dipping all together, and then I was it
was like one of those things where I've been trying
to disciple the men of my life that's that's kind
of made their way back into my life and stuff.
And one of the guys that I started talking to,
he dips really heavily, and so it was like literally

(18:15):
it just creeped back in. But I have I'm trying
to cut out dipping, but I have been doing these
like nicotine pouches. I'm trying to wing back off of it.
So prayers for that to those of you that's listening.
And I'm not saying that if you did, or you
do tobacco or smoke or anything, I'm not saying that
that's wrong. It's just a personal conviction of mine. I

(18:36):
would like to, you know, instead of every time I
was stressed running to that, I would rather run to
my Bible or something productive, because you know, to be
honest with you, it's a disgusting habit. So so pray
for me on that. And then again, if you guys
have any other prayer request, listen, know, do you have
any before we start?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, I do. My cousin notes here. Yeah, my cousin
up in Colorado, Brad, my uncle Bob's youngest. I believe
he just lost his daughter. Dude. She's like I think

(19:17):
she was like twenty one, twenty two, but yeah, she uh,
she's gone. And for him it's really hard because this
is the third child he's lost.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
He had a son who had special needs and succumbed
to the disease. He had another son just two years ago.
That died from pneumonia, and now his daughter's gone. He
only has one one child left and it's his junior
And dude, it's I just my heart breaks for my cousins.

(19:53):
I just I couldn't imagine losing one of my kids,
let alone three. You know, I just so prayers him.
He's he needs it right now. He's he's not exactly
a follower, but he's not atheist. Does that make sense.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, he's kind of. You know, I think there's a
lot of people that are sort of in that limbo.
They feel like there's something greater, but you know, they
can't quite put their finger on it. But yeah, I'm
taking notes as we go, and I'll refer back to him.
I'm I'm far from perfect, so I gotta like take

(20:29):
notes so I don't forget these things, but I do
think these are important. So but go ahead and pray
and get started. God, we just come to you as
humbly as we can. You know, the last series we did,
we talked about humility, and tonight we're talking about forgiveness
and to be honest with you, this is one of

(20:50):
the hardest things to digest and one of the hardest
things for us to do because it goes against our
human nature. So I just pray that me and Chris
can break this apart in a way that's going to
relate to those that might be struggling with this, and
that's going to relate to people that they can actually give.
We can give them something that they can chew on

(21:12):
that they can apply of their life. God, I pray
for me that you can help me break this nicotine habit.
It's something that I just want to give that to you.
It's it's one of my last crutches that I feel
like I have in my life that's holding me back.
And I did a good job, you know, breaking it before.

(21:32):
But if you could just help me get back off
of it, I really need that because I just want
to move on from it. God, pray for the prodigals.
You know. I know several prodigles in my life that
they're on fire for you God, and they've lost their way.
But pray for any prodigals that's listening to this, or

(21:52):
if there's anybody out there that's listening to this that
has a prodigle in their life. We just pray for
a hedge of thorns around the life that they're living,
it'll send them straight back to you so that they
can live under the blanket of your grace.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
God.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
We pray for Chris's cousin, Brad. You know, he just
lost his daughter. This is the third child he's lost.
There's so much hurting going on right now. Death, cancer, COVID,
you know, whatever it is. There's so much death and
hurting going on. And we don't know why these things happen.

(22:26):
But we know that this life is a gift, but
it's not forever. You know. The Bible says that it's
basically like a vapor. And although there's hurting and death
and sickness and it's hard to deal with here on earth,
we have the everlasting promise of heaven where all that's
going to be wiped away. We have the blessing that

(22:47):
we're going to see our loved ones again when we
get to Heaven God, and we just pray for peace
and healing and understanding in these difficult times to anybody
that's having to deal with death the family. It's never easy.
But with the promise of a new tomorrow and everlasting
Heaven where everything is perfect, we at least know that

(23:09):
we're going to see these people again, but just pray
for healing and patience and understanding and comfort in these
times of need, and for any other prayer request. To
anybody that's listening, whatever they have on their heart, we
pray that you lift it up, that they lifted up
to you right now, and that you can touch them
where they're at in your heaven the name we pray Amen.

(23:34):
That's such a hard one, man, because you know it
usually there's things on this earth that happen like that,
and it's just natural to ask why would this happen?
You know, like why why would you even create death?
And why? You know, people always they kind of run

(23:57):
back to these like existential issue and you know it's
not easy, but it's like, dude, you know we have
that promise and it's like this life is just a
small blip in like eternity and although it's hard to
deal with right now, dude, it's just but I just

(24:18):
I know there's so many people dealing with so many
issues that's that's close to that.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
So but yeah, it's rough, dude, you know it really is.
I Like I said, I couldn't even imagine in the
shoes he's in right now at you know Lord.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
Well, and you don't know, you don't know like true
selfless love until you have a kid. Really, it's like
it completely changes your world, dude. Like you know, I
used to never cry at TV shows or movies or anything,

(24:59):
but dude, I'm not. Daughter comes along. It's like, I mean,
it could be a Clariton commercial and I'll just lose it,
you know, because it's like it's it's the closest thing.
And I think that's why the Bible compares it to
you know, we're God's children and He's our father, because
it's like that's and you know, to you feel that,

(25:20):
I mean, that's the closest thing I could. I feel
like that you can compare it maybe to when you're
talking about God's love for us, because it's like it's
so relevant, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah. Yeah, And I think people who also realize that,
you know, they say, oh, how could God let that
happen to my child? When you need to be looking
at it as God didn't allow that to happen to
your child. God allowed free will in all humans, and
that's just an act of free will of what happened,

(25:52):
you know what I mean. Disease we can get into
a whole other world. Yeah, we can get into a
whole nother podcast on disease. Why is their disease in
the world. Why do we have cants in the world.
Why do we have this in that didn't have this
two thousand years ago? All the diseases we have now,
they're they're mostly man mate, you know what I mean.
God made us to live for quite a while and
we're not.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
And I think it's important to remember too. A lot
of people ask, like why would God create a imperfect
world like that? But in the Bible, you know, the
number of three biblically stands for perfection. A lot of
people get that confused that they think seven is perfection.

(26:33):
Seven in the Bible is the number of completion, and
they get that because like God's number seven, but it's
like God created the earth in seven days. That's the
sign that you know, that's the number for completion. But
like God's number is seven seven, seven, which is literally
like perfect, perfect, perfect. You know, three is perfect, so

(26:53):
it's like perfect completion. But like he created a perfect
world three times, like created the garden, which we messed up.
There's the current heaven and then there's the new heaven right,
so you know it talks about current heaven is gonna
drop down whatever, But it's like that perfect world exists.
It's just this is like the trial, you know, run.

(27:16):
But so Part one is why we struggle with forgiveness.
And I will go ahead and get into screen share
mode while I'm doing that too, I'm slacking. But we're
gonna basically just give you guys an outline. We're going
to talk about Basically, we're gonna define forgiveness. We're gonna

(27:40):
use Jesus as an example how it applies to us,
and then we're gonna wrap it back in. But Part one,
why we struggle with forgiveness defining forgiveness. Forgiveness is a
powerful and deeply personal act that allows the individuals to
release resentment. That's good, release resentment and anger towards those

(28:01):
who have wronged them. According to Webster's Dictionary, forgiveness is
defined as the act of forgiving, the state of being forgiven,
the disposition or willingness to forgive. Many believe that forgiveness
is about the other person, but in reality, forgiveness is
for you. Holding on to bitterness or anger can weigh

(28:23):
you down mentally, emotionally and physically does not mean excusing
the wrongdoing or forgetting that pain. It just simply means
choosing to free yourself from the burden of past hurts thoughts.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
You know a lot of people think that, I believe
if I'm forgiving somebody, I'm doing them a favor. I'm
letting them off the hook. I'm doing them a favor.
I shouldn't forgive them for what they did to me.
You know, they should, They should, They should get the
same thing I got. And I believe that true forgiveness

(29:07):
is exactly what that just said through. When you forgive somebody,
the weight is off of your shoulders, not there. And
my dad used to have a say, and he used
to tell me, son, don't let them live rent free
in your head. Rap, they're living rent free in your head.

(29:29):
I guarantee you. You're all worked up about it, You're
irritated about it, and the person who did you wrong
isn't thinking twice about it. I mean, that's not bothering
them at all. You're the one that's bothered. So in
order to be able to move past that, you need
to forgive them and really forgive them and say, you
know what, it's okay, that's that's who they are, they're human,

(29:49):
or however you weren't. However you weren't free.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah. Actually, I'm gonna include this kind of almost but.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
You know, well, for.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
One, you know, it's important to remember too. Like you said,
the hardest part it's it's hard to forgive. It's really
hard to forget, truly forgive. The hardest part is to forget,
Like true forgiveness is wiping the slate clean. Like you

(30:29):
see that a lot in marriages, right, It's like, Okay,
I forgive you, but then a month or two back,
it's like, oh, yeah, well but you remember that time
when you know you've got to put the hand back
in the fridge and we had to like, you know,
throw out a whole hand and wait and what I'm
just using a random thing that popped in my mind.
But it's like, if you truly forgive, then you should

(30:53):
forget and truly wipe the slate clean. And dude, that's
kind of the hardest part, uh about it?

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Really? I think that there is a fine line there.
And you know, I've had this discussion before with numerous
people about well, is it okay to forgive somebody but

(31:21):
not trust them again. Is it okay to forgive somebody
but not put yourself in a position with that person
to be betrayed again, you know what I mean? So
it's for me like if Jesus forgave that way, if
Jesus said, look God, if God said, look, I'm going

(31:43):
to come down there. I'm going to take on human form.
I'm going to take on the sins of the world
while teaching everybody how to live correctly, the way they're
supposed to according to our heavenly Father. And then I'm
going to go away. But I'm going to forgive all

(32:04):
of you humans, but I never want to see you again.
I forgive you for all of your sin, but I
don't never want to see you again. Do we find
ourselves forgiving that way? Sometimes? Where would we be if
Jesus thought that way about us, we would never be
in heaven. He's forgiven us, but he don't ever want
to see us again. We're never going to make it

(32:25):
to heaven. You know, Jesus says, I forgive you, and
I love you and I want to be with you. Now,
how do we truly forgive? Do we forgive and say
you know what, Yeah, sure, I forgive you. I forgive
you for what you did, but I don't never want
to see you again. I don't want to have nothing
to do with you. Don't ever call me, don't ever
come around me again. Is that true forgiveness?

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Truth?

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Well, I mean, uh huh, fine life.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yeah, there's a fine line there, because, like you said,
and I want this was the part I was trying
to look up here. I was trying to add this
to the notes. But really the first step Matthew eighteen
fifteen through seventeen. Jesus instructs us if a brother sins
against you, you should first go to him privately and

(33:14):
you know, basically express the fall or the sin between
the two of you.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Long.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
If he listens, then you've gained a brother. If not,
take two others with you. If he still refuses, technically
are supposed to kind of bring it before the church.
But if he still doesn't, then it says treat him
as a pagan or a tax collector at that point.
So it's like, I think there's a fine line. It
depends on the issue.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
If your neighbor borrows your rake and doesn't bring it
back to you, I don't think you just say, well,
I'm never going to talk to you, you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
But I do think.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
That there's there's there's certain times where you know, if
which in dude, I've had people that you know, have
found some kind of fault with me and it's something
that I didn't even know, right, Like I was completely
unaware of. They got mad about something, but instead of
talking to me about it, they went and talked to
everybody else about it and basically spread their side of

(34:12):
it and told everybody that they know that we know whatever, well,
you know, Drew did this or whatever. And it's like,
in those situations, it's like, well, okay, in theory, okay,
I send against you, but I didn't know even what
I did. And there's been times where I don't even
feel like I did anything, but someone still gets mad

(34:34):
or whatever. And it's like in those situations, you know,
I usually try to do kind of like a trifecta.
I'll try to text them, so it's like basically written
tome stamp dated, but like i'll text them, I'll try
to call them, and then I'll try to talk to
them in person, like they dudere like are we good?

(34:55):
Is there? I mean, there's everything good. It's like, you know,
what's up. And if that point, it's like, yeah, no,
it's fine, it's fine, everything's fine, you know, and they
don't want to talk about it. It's like are you
sure like it? You know. So there's a certain point
where you kind of have to turn the other cheek
and say, Okay, well, I've tried to reach out to
this person, I've tried to connect, they don't want to

(35:16):
have anything to do with me. I'm kind of turning
the other cheek and I'm just gonna forgive them. And
like there's been times where dude, like I've truly forgiven someone,
even though I don't feel like I did anything wrong,
but I've truly forgiven someone. They still won't talk to
me about it. And so it's like, Okay, I forgive them,
I move on, I pray for them, and then it's

(35:39):
like I'll not associate with them. It's not that I'm
like I don't ever want to talk to you again,
but it's like, okay, like, dude, if you ever want
to hash it out, we can hash it out. And
there's times where relationships can permanently be kind of broken
and it may not ever be the same. But I

(36:01):
think at the end of the day, you just want
to find the best resolution that you can and although
you might not be super close with that person, you
can still find some kind of resolution and then sort
of move on, and maybe you move on kind of separate.
But again, you shouldn't hold that harbor, like that hate
in your heart. Like I don't ever want to be

(36:23):
so mad at somebody that I have to act differently, right,
Like if I'm at a restaurant or the grocery store,
I don't want to be like, oh, let me go
over here and like avoid this person, because at that point,
maybe I'm missing out an opportunity for to reconcile with
a brother. Maybe there's a witnessing opportunity, and so I

(36:43):
don't ever want to cut ties where I can't possibly
witness to that person, you know. But there's times, man,
people get mad at you and they just stay mad
at you, and it's like, you know, but like you said,
I don't think you should ever be like you know,
and it's just like I think it's okay to walk away,
but you don't ever because then you're just holding the grudge, right,

(37:06):
you know, you're basically saying well, I'm not you know.
You know, I don't have anything to do, and now
you're creating a barrier, and I don't think God wants
us to really have barriers, you know.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, I agree. I think that you hit the nail
on the head when it comes to the circumstance of
the forgiveness. Yeah, I think that. You know, my wife
and I are in a heated moment or whatever. She
slapped me across the face or never happened, but it did.

(37:42):
You know, there's a different level of forgiveness for her,
as opposed to say, a man who like murdered a
good friend or my sister. Heaven forbid something like that.
There's a different level of forgiveness there. My wife, I'm
gonna forgive, I'm gonna put my arms around, I'm gonna
sa I love you. It's no big gift. The person
who I didn't know, who I don't have a connection with,

(38:06):
does something like that. Absolutely, I am called by God.
God says you have to forgive them, especially for your
own good. But I'm not going to go reaching out
to that person, you know what I mean. I'm going
to forgive them for the good of my own heart
and I'm going to say, look, I forgive you. You
did what you did for whatever reason. It can't be

(38:26):
taken back. It's over and done with. But I'm not
going to try to be a part of your life.
You did something that hurt me deep enough that I
just I'm not going to reach out to you now.
Like I said, I think you hit the nail on
the head. It depends on the severity of the sin

(38:47):
that was cast again, and.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
I think it kind of depends on where that person's at.
And that's where all you can do is pray, let
the Holy Spirit lead, refer to scripture, and make the
best decision you can because there's times where you know,
maybe there was something crazy that happened back in the
day and then you know you sort of forgot and
then you find God or you reconcile with Jesus and

(39:12):
you get your life together, and then it's like, well,
there's all this time that's happened, you know whatever. But like,
it kind of depends on where that person's at, because
if they're toxic, if they're really bad on like drugs,
or if they're just really spiraling, or they are you know,
I don't want to say like there's like a demonic

(39:32):
spirit or anything like that. But like, you know, if
they're just that, they're at that point where you try
to reach out, but like they're gonna start dragging you
down as well. And I think at times you sort
of have to kick the dust off up a little
bit until they're ready to receive that move on, because
you know, I think if you get tied up with

(39:54):
the wrong people, they can drag you down as well.
So you know, you kind of have to be careful
of that.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, well, real quick, if you think about it, it
does say in the Bible, God and Jesus do say
to prune the branches that don't bear fruit. You know,
So if you're pruning that branch because that branch did
something to you, and if you know it doesn't bear fruit,

(40:21):
I think it's okay to cut that branch away as
long as you've truly in your heart forgiven that person,
realizing that they're human just like us. We all make mistakes,
some a lot more severe than others, some a lot
more evil than others. We all make mistakes, and I
believe that's the ultimate goal to this forgiveness, is to

(40:43):
realize that we all make mistakes. And if we can
be forgiven of our sins, no matter how bad they are,
then how can we not forgive somebody else? You know,
it just it doesn't it doesn't jive right.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
So forgiveness is letting go of sin. And the Bible
forgiveness is about releasing others from their debts against us,
just as God released us through Christ from eight to one.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
There's therefore now no condemnation for those who are in
Christ Jesus. So the question is why is it so
hard to forgive? Fear of being heard again, fear of
looking weak, fear of them not facing justice. It feels
like sometimes we're letting them off the hook. But what

(41:35):
if forgiveness is actually keeping us on the hook. There's
another Bible verse we read a while back. I need
to look that up, but I think it was in
the Omens, you know where it basically, you know, God
basically says vengeance's mind, leave hot, you know, keeping coals

(41:58):
on your enemies. I think we talk about that in
the Anger series.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
That was challenge, pray for them and see what happens.
Pray for your Yeah, thing is forgiving.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Let's see here. I think it was Roman's twell. I'll
look that up for a second, but and I'll pull
the uh the notes back. Oh accident, mind, I'm I'm
on the other screen. But uh but yeah, it was
I think it was Romans Twell, it was at the
end of Romans twelve. Let me pull that up real quick.

(42:35):
Bless those well, I'll start in fourteen. Bless those who
persecute you, Bless those who do not curse. Rejoice with
those who rejoice. And we put those who we be
on the same mind towards one another. Do not set
your mind on high things, but associate with the humble.
Do not be wise in your own opinion. Repay no
one evil, have regard for good things inside of all men.

(42:57):
If it's possible, as much as it depends on you,
live peacefully with all men beloved. Do not avenge yourself,
but rather give place to wrath. For it is written
God says, vengeance is mine. I will payeth, says the Lord. Therefore,
if your enemy's hungry feeding, if he's thirsty, give him drink,

(43:18):
or in doing so, you will heap coals of fire
on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but
overcome evil with good. So literally God's like, hey, look,
you know, forgive them, move on, let me deal with it.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Like well, yeah, I mean that's the ultimate judgment, right,
that's the ultimate judgment. Right. There is God and he
says vengeance is his And if you look at our
notes rate there fear of them not facing justice. As Christians,

(43:56):
as christ followers, we have to know that that person
is going to face judgement.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
One way or another. Right, But one way or another,
you know. But again that's between them and God.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Right, right, But you need to be at peace with
knowing that no matter what wrong that person did to you,
it's going to be judged. They're they're going to be judged.
We will all be judged for all of our actions
on this earth. Every one of us will be and
we this gets deep, dude, because when we forgive somebody

(44:39):
and we come to the realization that they're going to
be judged by the Lord, right, God is going to
judge them when they die and they meet their maker.
I've had this argument meant with my wife and with
my mom my sister about so if somebody has been
a sinner their whole life, a complete atheist sinner, did

(45:02):
what they wanted to do, never believed in God. But
in their last dying breath they cry out to Jesus
and they profess him as their Lord and savior. When
they take that last breath, Yeah, they're going to be
in heaven. They profess Jesus as their Lord and savior.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
And for me, on the cross even a.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Right, you know, right. So for me that was a
hard pill to swallow because I'm like, well, then why
doesn't everybody just live however they want to live and
profess Jesus at the end, And it doesn't make sense
to do that because that's not what we're called to do.
But I think that where it gets deep is if
you're really following Christ and you want a heart like

(45:48):
Christ and you have the Holy Spirit in you, if
that person cries out at their last moment on earth
to Jesus Christ and professes Jesus Christ is their Lord
and savior, we should not be upset that they're not
going to go to Hell, that they're not going to
face the steep judgment that we think they should have.
We should be jumping for joy that another soul has

(46:09):
made it into Heaven, even if it was at the
last minute, At least another person was like.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
They say that, and who knows where he actually stood stood,
but you know they say that Jeffrey Dahmer became a
believer there while he was in jail before he was murdered.
And it's like, man, that is a that is a
tough thing to think about because our human nature is like, dude,

(46:35):
look at everything he did, look at all the bad
he did. But then it's like, you look at Paul,
who was Saul. And when he was Saul, he was
like a Jewish. I don't remember if he was like
a phar see or if he was high up or what,
but he was literally persecute, like he killed Stephen and

(46:58):
he was literally killing Christians for professing Jesus as Lord.
And you know he has this run in Radical Onet
eighty meets Jesus and he's forever changed. And it's like,
but our human nature wants to be like, no, I

(47:19):
know you, I know. It's same thing with us, right,
Like if I was to bump into somebody that knew
me five years ago or ten years ago or even
twenty years ago, they're gonna be like, oh no, dude,
I remember back when you was doing this, and it's like, yeah,
I did that, but like you know, Jesus, you know,
God makes all things new, and it's like that's a

(47:42):
tough pill to swallow, man, Like that's tough.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Like I was saying, it's it is tough, man, But
I mean that's what God calls us to do. I
don't know if you know who Christopher Hitchens is or was.
I think it was Christopher Hitchins, might be Hutchings anyways,
devout atheist. And I just came across this video a
couple of weeks ago. A devout atheist his whole life,

(48:08):
like believed in in evolution and all this other stuff, right,
and apparently on his deathbed and his dying moments, he
looked up at the family around him and he said,
I fear I've made a grave mistake about God. And
then he died. So you know, this is this is

(48:32):
where seeing.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Oh. I was just gonna say, it's interesting because like
I seen a video on TikTok the other day and
it was this guy who he was telling a story
where he had sleep paralysis when not said he said,
he basically woke up and he couldn't move, and he said,
there's like this vision of one of his friends that

(48:59):
was like sitting at the bed next to him and
had this like real creepy, like cynical looking smile. And
then he said he looked over and there was this
like massive demon that was like hovering over him. And
he said he was paralyzed. And he said demon was
like growning at him. And you know, and he's telling
it vividly and but he's he literally said, here's still

(49:19):
I'm not religious. I'm not and the guy, the way
the guy told it, he had a a he seemed
like a genuinely nice person and he was kind of
making light of it and whatever, but he was talking
about He's like, you know, it was a terrifying experience
for me. He said. I was laying there and he said,

(49:39):
I'm not religious. I'm far from a Christian. But he said,
I pulled out the big guns and he said, I
started saying in Jesus' name, get out, and Jesus name
in that way. He said he was like mumbling it
because he couldn't hardly move or speak. And he said
he started saying in Jesus name, get out, and he
said it was like instantly he woke up, and it
was like the room was like and he so now

(50:01):
every night he's like, dude, I don't know what I'm
praying to, but he said, every night I pray to
Jesus and I say a prayer before I go to sleep.
And it's just it's so funny how you know, people
like they'll say whatever they want to. But it's like,
you know, if if you need an exorcist or you

(50:24):
need whatever, or in these moments, it's like in your deepest,
darkest moments, there's a lot of people who all of
a sudden, they kind of reach out to it. And
you know, I just I think there's a lot to
it because I think, you know, there's power in the
name of Jesus. So but it is interesting when things
like that happen and you really start getting down to

(50:46):
the nitty gritty, you know, And I think the Bible
talks about that. How you know, God wrote his DNA
on our heart basically. You know we've talked about that before, yeah,
we have.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
But like I was saying, I mean, that's where it
gets deep, is we're supposed to praise and jump for
joy when these people get saved, even if they've lived
a whole life of sin. And I think that the
deeper I get into my Christianity, and the closer I draw,
the closer I draw out to God at Jesus, the
more I can accept that and I can say, you

(51:22):
know what, I am glad that person made it. Well,
they did all that evil in the end, they finally
realized what was important, and that's Christ.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
And you want to know why, Chris, that it's important
to let go of that grudge. Well, I'm going to
tell you why, because what happens. Why What happens when
you hold a grudge scientifically and health typically, is it
increases your stress hormones or your cortisol, leading the anxiety, depression,

(51:54):
and even weight gain, high risk of heart disease and
high blood pressure. Weakened the men system, making you more
prone to illness, poor sleep, digestive issues, and chronic pain.
And these are things that you know, athletic greens are
not going to help. Bitterness is like drinking poison and
expecting the other person to die. Man, what forgiveness does

(52:20):
for your body and mind? However, lower stress improves mental clarity,
releases dopamine and serotonin boosting happiness, strengthens your heart and
your immune system, and it leads to a longer life expectancy.
The Bible confirms this Proverbs seventeen twenty two. A cheerful
heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit drives up bones.

(52:44):
Also Isaiah twenty six 'y three, you will keep in
perfect peace those minds of those whose minds are steadfast
because they trust in you.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
I gotta go back to Bitterness is like drinking poison
expecting the other person to die. And let's just give
that up where we're weird. I mean, that's powerful, and
that's exactly what it is. I mean, you're letting somebody
live in your head rent free again. That's that's all
I can say, is you really do and until you

(53:21):
learn to let go of that. Dude, I am so
bad at this, I really am. I have been in
the past, really bad at this. I've not been a
good forgiving person. I mean, up until probably we started
this podcast. There's people I have not forgiven in my life.
And another reason this podcast is so healthy for you

(53:43):
and I is as I started digging in and studying
scripture and seeing what the Bible said about forgiveness to
prepare for this podcast, dude, I realized I need to
get on the train with that because there's people out
there that I still hold a grudge against that I
I need to start praying about now. I need to
start praying for forgiveness for them and for forgiveness for

(54:07):
me for not forgiving them all this time. And I
got to get on that now. So these podcasts really,
they're good for my soul.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Yeah, And like we said before, man, if you know,
if you guys are listening to these, I mean, treat
them like a Bible study, you know, and have these
conversations with people, you know. But yeah, I mean I'm
the same way, dude. I mean, you know, by studying
and preparing and talking and you know, doing these podcasts.

(54:38):
That holds me accountable because it's like, I know that
there's people that know that I'm doing this, even if
they don't listen to the podcast, if they read the titles,
you know, and it's like, oh, yeah, you know, forgiveness.
But you know, uh, you got mad because you know,
somebody parked in your parking spot or you know whatever.
It's like, you know, it's it's cost a reminder, which

(55:01):
I guess to land this plane, We've got about five
ish minutes. But you know, tonight We did not make
it all the way through the podcast notes, but we
defined forgiveness, and then on the next one we're going
to talk about Jesus forgiving. I mean literally, he's betrayed, denied, rejected, forsake,

(55:22):
and yet he still chose to forgive. I mean, he
was betrayed by his best friend, he was denied by
one of his closest followers in his time and need,
he was killed by his own people. He was forsaken
by God quote unquote when he was on the cross,
when God had to turn his back on him because
he was taking the work, you know, the sin of

(55:43):
the world on his shoulders. And even in that, what
did he do? He said, forgive them they know not
what they do. Yeah, we're going to talk about that.
We're also going to talk about our command to give
and God's radical forgiveness as well the next podcast.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
But yeah, yeah, let me go. You ready to roll
out of here? Now?

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Well, I mean we got like four minutes, but I
was all I was saying later, it was just I
hope you guys are getting something out of this, because
I know we are.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Yeah, absolutely, I want to read This is kind of
a long scripture, but we got time. I'll get through it.
This is Matthew eighteen verse starting with verse twenty one.
We're gonna all the way through, probably thirty five. This
is the parable of the unforgiving Servant. I don't know
if you're familiar with this one, but this is. And
just so you know, brother, this is the NKJV for you.

(56:40):
Oh yeah, Oh wait, I didn't get balloons or sparks
or nothing. Oh yeah, all right, so verse twenty one.
Then Peter came to him and said, Lord, now I
shall my brother since me and I forgive him up
to seven times. Jesus said to him, I do not
say to you up to seven times, but up to

(57:02):
seventy times seven. Therefore, the Kingdom of Heaven is like
a certain king who wanted to settle account with the servants.
And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was
brought to him, who owed him ten thousand talents. But
as he was not able to pay, his master commanded
that he be sold with his wife and children and
all that he had, and the payment be made. The

(57:23):
servant therefore fell down before him, saying, Master, have patience
with me, and I will pay you. I will pay
you all. Then the master of that servant was removed,
or was moved with compassion, released him and forgave him
the debt. But that servant went out and found one
of his fellow servants who owed him one hundred dinari,
and he laid hands on him and took him by

(57:45):
the throat, saying, pay me what you owe. So this
fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying,
have patience with me, and I will pay you all.
And he would not, but went and threw him into
prison till he should pay the debt. So when this
fellow so, when his fellow servants saw what he what
had been done, they were very greed and came and

(58:06):
told their master all that he had, all that had
been done. Then his master, after he called him, said
to him, you wicked. I forgave you all that because
you begged me. Should you not also have have had
compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity
on you? And his master was angry and delivered him

(58:28):
pay all that was due to him. So, my heavenly
father also will do to each of you from his
heart does so, my heavenly father will my heavenly Father
also will do to you if each of you, from
his heart does not forgive his brother his prespassage. So
I think we can end it there. But yeah, dude,

(58:50):
that's that's saying it all. I mean, how can you
do that? Oh great, I got forgiven, But now I'm
gonna go beat somebody up because they owe me. You
know that that's not the way it works. He was forgiven. Therefore,
Jesus's parable says he should have forgiven that guy who
owed him the hundred dinari, but he did, and Jesus

(59:12):
is saying that that's not the way it works people.
The way it works is whatever you do down here
you're gonna get when you get to heaven. You better
start doing some forgiveness.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Yeah, you know, like you said, it's like it's kind
of like also in Matthew, when you know a lot
of people take that you know, beck in your other
another person's eye planking your own eye. But if you
read on it basically says, you know, be careful how

(59:46):
you judge others, because that's the measure that you're going
to be judged in. So right, you said, it's it's
kind of like what goes around comes around scenario.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
But uh, but yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Hope that you guys got You know, I always say it,
but a quarter out of this is what we got.
But I guess in our closing thoughts, a final challenge
would be, who do you need to forgive to get today?
Not because they deserve it, but because you deserve it,
not because they've earned it, but because Jesus forgave you freely.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Ethic Again.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Some reminders like subscribe, share this podcast. Somebody needs encouragement,
Email us at the Unreligious or at the Unreligious at
gmail dot com, and be sure to check out our
YouTube channel. Thank you guys for joining us. On episode
number twenty four of the Unreligious Podcast. We're starting to

(01:00:45):
wrack these up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Love it hope.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
We hope today's discussion helped you guys see that forgiveness
isn't just a suggestion, It's command and a gift and
a path to true freedom. Until next time, keep spreading
love in the name of Jesus without judgment. I am
Big Drewski and I am Chris. This is the Unreligious Podcast.

(01:01:10):
Y'all Take it easy, Come back now.

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#24 - FORGIVENESS (Part 1)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#24 - FORGIVENESS (Part 1)