January 11, 2024 • 60 mins
At trial and at sentencing, Lorenzo's many surviving victims testified against him, including the impactful statements made by Albert Perkins, who Lorenzo kidnapped and assaulted in February of 2000. The testimony and eventual plea deals made by both Schweickert and Lorenzo would provide great insight into their MOs and victimology. But at what cost?
Because by some accounts, investigators and the prosecution were as hard on the survivors as they were Lorenzo himself.
Next episode: 25 January 2024
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Resources:
Albert Perkins
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by: Circles, Field, Yehezkel Raz, and Ahimsa
Featured music by: Rufus Wainwright
Because by some accounts, investigators and the prosecution were as hard on the survivors as they were Lorenzo himself.
Next episode: 25 January 2024
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Resources:
- Fox 13 Tampa Bay: https://www.fox13news.com/news/nothing-behind-his-eyes-his-face-was-contorted-victim-of-steven-lorenzo-woke-up-panicked
- The Tampa Bay Times: https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2006/01/28/defiant-lorenzo-gets-200-years/
- The Netflix documentary Victim/Suspect: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288561
Albert Perkins
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by: Circles, Field, Yehezkel Raz, and Ahimsa
Featured music by: Rufus Wainwright
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
This is a studio both and production. This episode contains testimony which includes explicit
descriptions of assault. Please listen withcare. When you first remained consciousness,
is your duct table over your eyes? Yes? Is that at some point
(00:30):
removed by the defendant? Yes?And then back in the beginning on and
off. I went from leading,which which aroused him, and then threatening.
And it seems like that he tolerantthat as much as so we would
(00:53):
put that back over my eyes andmouse I completely learned not to thre So
it was throughout the attack that therewas duct tape over your eyes, and
was it over your mouth as well? But it was also removed and reapply
(01:15):
it. So you first regained consciousnessand you are on your stomach, does
he roll you over? Is hesaying anything to you in the beginning now,
But she let me know that shehad made other people disappear and that
would be my fate. There aremore than four hundred and sixty thousand sexual
(01:48):
assaults in the United States every year. Only thirty percent of those are reported
to the police, and only onepercent of perpetrators are ever prosecuted. There
is so little justice for victims.Journalist Gray de Leone from the Netflix documentary
Victim Suspect. Stephen Lorenzo went tocourt twice for his crimes, first federally
(02:20):
in two thousand six, where hewas indicted for the assaults and possession charges.
Generally, federal courts will only trya murder case if it is connected
to another crime, for example,transporting a kidnapping victim across state lines and
then murdering that victim. Homicide casesare predominantly left up to the state courts
(02:44):
to try in the jurisdiction where thecrime occurred, or in some cases where
the body was found. With thefederal case against Stephen Lorenzo, it was
not definitively proven that there was alink between the possession and use of drugs
and the deaths of Jason Galehouse andMichael Walkles, but based on the evidence
(03:06):
they had, the federal prosecutors wereable to add charges and try Lorenzo for
the use of drugs to facilitate anassault. So the logical question would be
why did they add these charges.Lorenzo had the potential for being charged and
tried for murder in a state courtin a state that has the death penalty,
(03:29):
so why add these charges at thefederal level. Well at the time
the assault trial was proceeding, thestate prosecutor hadn't yet made a decision as
to whether or not Lorenzo and Schweikertwould be charged with murder at the state
level, so it seems likely thatthe Feds were able to achieve some semblance
(03:49):
of justice for Jason and Michael byhaving them named in a federal indictment.
The more charges, the longer thesentence, and in two thousand seve if
no one knew whether murder charges wouldbe filed, this was a way to
keep Lorenzo incarcerated so he couldn't harmany other members of the community. But
(04:12):
Lorenzo was eventually arraigned and indicted atthe state level for the murders of Jason
and Michael, for which he wouldeventually plead guilty, but due to the
investigation, the federal trial and thenCOVID, the state penalty phase didn't happen
until twenty twenty two, eighteen yearsafter Jason and Michael were murdered, and
(04:34):
the sentencing hearing didn't happen until Februaryof twenty twenty three. Throughout the judicial
process, many of Lorenzo's surviving victimscame forward to testify. Some testified for
both hearings, and in many senses, they themselves were arrested for close to
(04:55):
two decades while those hearings played out. They were trapped in the worst moments
of their lives while they awaited andhoped for some semblance of justice. One
of the most impactful testimonies was thatof Albert Perkins, who was assaulted by
Stephen Lorenzo in February of two thousand, twenty three years before Lorenzo would actually
(05:19):
be sentenced. Prosecutors were able tolink Lorenzo to Albert after finding messages between
the two on Lorenzo's AOL account ayear. A couple of years later,
somebody had handed me. I hadtried to warn as many people as I
could after I had called the police, and somebody had hinded me his screen
(05:44):
name. For whatever reason, Ilogged it. Maybe another year went by.
It was on the computer. Landpopped up, Andy saw me there.
You say, you logged it?What does that mean? At that
time it was AOL was popular.It was they said it was about you
know, it would be a buddylist. So I locked it on that
list, and I was on thecomputer and it popped up on an instant
(06:05):
like an instant message. You meanthe system would show you who was online?
Yea, yes, And it poppedup that screen name that you had
been given by someone else that wasidentified to the defendant. And what did
you do when you saw them?I sent him a message, I said,
(06:28):
between me and you and God,you know what you did? You
begg Did the defendant ever respond yesand said what he said? I believe
he said, I was bitter.Is that the last time you ever had
any kind of interaction of contact priorto the defendant's arrest? Yes, it
was the last? Yes, alast. Albert Perkins testified for close to
(06:58):
twenty minutes. It would be hissecond time testifying and recounting his assault,
and through that very public testimony duringthe sentencing hearing, Albert went into heartbreaking
and often eerie detail about how hemet Stephen Lorenzo and what Stephen Lorenzo did
(07:19):
to him. Perkins's testimony was impactfulboth that trial and to us for many
reasons. For starters, his accountof the assault so closely mirrored Lorenzo's other
surviving victims, and the narrative aroundwhat likely happened with both Jason Galehouse and
(07:44):
Michael Wackle's. Secondly, it demonstratedintent. Third it established a clear m
O which would help us in oursearch to identify other potential victims. And
it showed just how brazen Lorenzo wasand how unresponsive Tampa p D was to
(08:07):
the initial assault accusations against him.Were you living here full time in February?
I was, Can you tell meabout how you ended up in Tampa
as of February to that? Allright? I lived seasonally for many years,
so I was going back and forthto the Boston area, and then
I grew up here. And whatchanged in February two thousand, I was,
(08:31):
You're on a work family vacation andhow that was yourself was assaulted by
mister Lorenzo during that visit. Didyou have contact with mister Lorenzo at some
point in the month of February Idid. Do you recall the exact date,
(08:52):
exact day? I know, butI know it was a third February.
And how is it that you cameinto contact with mister Lorenzo? I
robbed. I was here early,so I think did I go trying to
get some friends that I had noreally close years at that time. Did
you know the defendant's actual name?I did not. Did you know him
(09:13):
at all just by appearance his face? Had you come into contact with him
prior to the Derby Confederate? Hadyou seen him out socially prior to them?
Yes? Is that how you recognizedhim? Can you tell me what
happened and how you came into contactwith him that night? I was I
(09:33):
was sitting at a stoush and Ihad come up to me small talk.
I moved on to the somewhere downthe road and at each place that I
read tops was a small talk andI and at that time I most looking
for my friends in the city inEdom, and that was the incentive.
(09:58):
Did you believe him when he saidyou know your friend? Is that based
on your choir interactions with him socially? Yes, maybe not having met him
or talked to him, but havingseen him speak and talk to the same
people that you sometimes small it wasa small group, so he always just
seemed to be off into the background. Do you remember some of the things
(10:20):
that you were talking about when youmade small talks of the defendant? The
last conversation I remember he said hewas in contact with one of something that
was before they were having to gettogether at their house. And surely to
get why, I followed him.Did you drive your own vehicle and you
(10:41):
followed behind the defendant driving his vehicle? Did you drive directly to the party
that you suspected or expected your friendsto be at? The stop off was
it was a parking issue, soone of the cars had to be left.
So I was under the impression ofdropping his car off, and then
you would go from there. Youmean a parking issue, not space,
Yes, it goes so Stephen Lorenzofound Albert alone in a bar and then
(11:11):
seemed to follow him to every otherbar that he went throughout that night.
And when Albert said that he waslooking for friends, Lorenzo claimed to know
those friends and said he could helpfind them. And then, much like
with witness A, Lorenzo lured Albertback to his house. When you dropped
(11:33):
his car off, did you allgo inside the residence side? I believe
he mentioned he used the restroom.I followed him inside. Do you know
where you made an entry? Wasat the front door? The back door?
I believe it was a side doorgood to the kitchen? And where
did he go when you went her? As I walked in, I recall
(11:56):
there was a the kitchen for aglass of wine at each use themselves?
Kah absolutely, What did you expectto be there? And long before you
arrived? Before you arrived, didyou have any kind of conversation with a
defendant about engaging in sexual acts?Did you have any conversations what's the word
(12:18):
about engagement? Yes, you expectedto be stopping off at that residence temporarily
before proceeding to a party. Yousaid that you'd had someone here drink,
and that's about the last you remember. Do you remember what kind of drink
it was? And was there anythingodd about the wine itself? Yes?
(12:41):
Can you tell me about that taste? It it's had funny, it's myself.
Maybe it possibly was that the wineitself had turned And what how long
do you remember after having your firsttip of that wine? Shortly after just
(13:03):
my vision became glorried. I feltnauxious when I believe when I stood up,
I was enabled too, and Ibelieve one of them parts of my
love. Were you conscious at leastfor some time there in the living room
(13:24):
yes. And at some point doyou wake up when I awoke? I
didn't at that time, I didn'tknow where I was. When I was,
I had duct him over my eyesand mom, and were you in
a seated position? I was facedout? Was there anything else that you
(13:45):
could feel because you could not see? You said you had ducts over your
eyes. Could you feel anything elseabout your body and how you were positioned?
Yes? That was my arms onmy legs were about Also want that
wrote war t one around your neckconnected to anything else? My genitals?
(14:07):
And tell me about the restraints onyour arms and let you those connected to
each other the bed? What werethey connected to? Honestly, I believe
that my my legs and my armswere tied together, and also part of
was tied to up part of thebed. Were you able to move very
(14:28):
little? But no? Almost no. What is the first thing that you
recall when you actually regain consciousness?But the duccape is still over your eyes?
I was panicked, hysterical, andI remember seeing him saying he turned
(14:52):
me over and he was sitting onthe side of the bed, and I
we just recall his his face andhe didn't look the same without one so
nothing behind his eyes were dark.His face was contorted, which further panted
me, what were you saying backto him? I went from leading for
(15:20):
him to let me go to consistingthat he does, and then I went
from from that to just be quiet. I realized that when I was quiet,
it seemed to lose interest. Youpreviously indicated that he was seated on
(15:43):
the bed next to what was hedoing? The room was dark, but
he was there's somebody, Uh,he's massuring, and he did he say
anything to you while he was doingthat most of the time. But that's
(16:06):
what the post appearance, and thatseveral times I was huge. I believe
how long he could approximate would thisgo on for ours? I believe from
(16:26):
leaving his home to where to whereI ended up as an hour, so
I recalled. The last time Irecalled was at midnight, so from midnight
to five am. We discussed thatafter you had the line, you lost
consciousness for some time and regained consciousnessand you were already bound. Is that
(16:47):
correct? Throughout the entirety of theattack? Did you remain conscious or were
there also times that you lost consciousness? I lost consciousness because he was choking
me to well consciousness. Was hesaying anything? Then when you regained consciousness,
(17:08):
would he still be in the room? Yes, he would still seated
beside me. Do you know approximatelyhow many times did that happen? Several
times? In addition to strangling you? Was he doing other things to your
body? Hitting me, beating me, pinging me, pulling on the whatever
(17:30):
he tied me? Would? Ibelieve it was twine? And throughout the
duration of the attack, at leastin the beginning, were you were pleading
with him? Is that what yousaid? Yes, I started with hysteria.
It was hysterical. You mentioned whenI first asked you about when you
(17:52):
realized you were tied up and onthe bed. You mentioned that the duct
tape would come off, and yousaw those bended's eyes. Tell me about
that there wasn't anything behind them.That's what I gather that I was in
real trouble because there was He didn'tlook like the same person it was.
There was just nothing there, black, emotionless. Was that for the duration
(18:21):
of the assault. Are you awareat any time as to whether you were
penetrated during the soul? I don'tbelieve so. Ultimately, the attack does
come to an end. Can youtell me about how that happened? I
asked, or to mention that Ihave used the restaurant so partially untied followed
(18:48):
me in there. When he swipedme back to the head, I,
like I said, I was quiet, so I believe he dozed off or
lie down so he didn't completely tireme other wa I had one hand free,
which managed I managed to get myselfout of the rest and slowly on
(19:10):
my clothes, got dressed and walkedup fully thinking that I wasn't leaving there.
It was like time I stood stilland I thought he would be the
shooting your step. Have you threatenedto harm you in those ways before you
other than telling me that he wouldmake me disappear? Now, from the
(19:37):
time you walked in that side doorto the time you walked out of that
residence, was there anyone else presentother than the defendants? Did you hear
anyone else other than the defendant?And you did not see anyone else?
(19:59):
Well? To you were able toask? And what did you do in
your accident? I got to Ihad followed by my mother's car. I
was surprised the key that the keyswere in it, and I for a
while did you report it to thepolice. In Albert's own words, he's
(20:30):
lucky to be alive. Had Lorenzonot untied one hand so that he could
use the bathroom and then promptly fallenasleep, Albert likely would not have been
able to escape Lorenzo's house that day. You may recall that it was Stephen
Lorenzo's AOL count that led the prosecutionto Albert and not the police report that
(20:56):
he tried to file after the attack. Well, that came up in our
conversation this past November after Albert reachedout to me when he heard the podcast.
My name is Alert Perkins. Iwas one of Stephen Lorenzo's living survivors.
(21:17):
Participated in both trials, the federaland the state's capital murder trial,
and that was over a seventeen yearprocess, and I feel blessed to have
survived him. I didn't live inthe state that had happened at the time,
and you know, the last trialthere was details that I was not
made frivy till until I went totrial. So I consider myself very lucky
(21:41):
to be here and happy to helpit anyway I can with it. The
numerous missing people that I feel couldeasily be connected. I just feel like
I do feel like the wall wasdropped. Albert Perkins reached out to me
(22:02):
shortly after the second episode of thepodcast aired. He said that he wanted
to thank me for looking into thecase. That he'd learned more about the
crimes of Stephen Lorenzo and Scott Schweikertfrom this podcast than from being involved in
the investigation and both hearings, andhe urged me to keep looking into other
(22:23):
possible victims because he felt certain thatthere were more out there. A month
later, he agreed to chat withme on the record and on Mike.
This conversation includes his recounting opinions andperceptions of the investigation and of how the
(22:44):
prosecution handled the case. These werehis experiences as a person who was victimized
by Stephen Lorenzo and as some onewho testified twice against him. I've not
independently verified his accounts. My immediatefamily still lives in that area in Florida,
(23:07):
and I had just taken on ajob and closed on my mortgage,
and my daughter had come to livewith me. So I was going down
for like like a family vacation andbut I had gotten there early. Nobody
nobody was Nobody was there when Iarrived. So I went out to see
if I could meet up some oldfriends and I forgot the first place that
(23:30):
I was at. I ended upchatting. You know, I had drinks
under my belt and I got chattyand Stephen Lorenzo was a person sitting next
to me, and I think oncehe knew that, I probably told him
that I was there early. Nobodyknow I was there, and I think
that's what realised At the time hehad followed me to all the other places
that I had went to. Hehappened to be there, but previous to
(23:51):
that, I had you know,it's a very small community, and the
time that I went there, Ihad seen him before. I didn't know
him, but I I it wasa group of us that played darts together
when we were when I was down, and you know, he was always
sitting on the outs, on theoutside quiet. I think that's what made
me even a little more comfortable toyou know, I had recognized his face
(24:14):
on that time. When the secondtime that I encountered him, and I
just and I often wondered because Igrew up in a very sheltered. You
know, I grew up to youknow, leave it sounds corny, but
like leave it to be the hustle, the perry. So people like him
only existed in movies and never ina million years that I would ever think
that I would be sitting next tosomebody like that. You know, I
(24:37):
also for me at least, andI'm a little bit younger than you.
But back then, I always feltlike if there was one place where I
didn't have to look over my shoulder, where I could feel safe, it
was in the gay community, rightknow, you know, and I mean
he was known through other and Iknew he knew other people that you know,
I watched socialize with, you knowthe bar, you know, a
(25:00):
tender and some other you know,other faces I recognized, So he wasn't
unknown, wasn't a complete stranger.So you know that also probably lowered my
guard somewhat. But I what Ione of the difficult things that I that
I did struggle with my my nextencounter with him on the court, when
(25:22):
I walked in the room, hewas quite a distance away. He was
in the jail jumpsuit and he wasshackled, rocking and right right when I
walked to that door, you couldyou could see crazy, and I thought,
you know, I really have alwayskind of beaten myself up with I
thought, how did I you know, how do you miss that? Definitely
(25:44):
couldn't then because the eyes it was, It's always been the eyes that I've
never escaped for me. So wetalked a few weeks ago, and you
mentioned your experience trying to report thisattack. Could you share that with me
(26:06):
again? So when I remember spasiblywhen I got when I left his place,
my car was still there, andI drove home back to my family's
home, walked in. My motherwas doing dishes or cooking, I don't
remember. It was six o'clock.Looked at the clock it was six am.
(26:30):
And when I walked in, shehad My mother looked at me and
just walked away and I left.Called my partner at the time. At
that point, I didn't really knowwhat I looked like, but he had
said something was up and eat boughtme to fly home that day, which
I did, and he, Iwant to say, forced me, but
(26:51):
he encouraged me to call the Tampapolice, which I did. I don't
remember who I spoke to other thanit was a woman trying and I tried
to, you know, give thedetails of what happened. She really from
the beginning couldn't she could hide her. It was like disgusted, you know,
when she knew it was two menwhere I was, which was at
that twenty six h sixth place,she just was not interested in in the
(27:15):
and she ended up just hanging upon me, and I just never really
pursued it after that. So shehung up with you without ever filing a
report. Yes, she hung upon me. Yes, about maybe a
(27:36):
year later. You know, Ihad gone back to as in my family
and I had tried to went outto some of the not that place,
but some of the places you know, my friends would go to. And
I try to warn as many peopleas I could. And I don't have
the person's name, but he hadgiven me Steve Lorenzo's screen name, and
(27:56):
he said, I just for somereason, I think you should have this.
And back in those as, Ihad logged it, but I had
forgotten about it. And I hadjust got my first new computer. I
was home and online and his namehad popped up and I typed him.
I said, between me and youand God, you know what you did,
and you well, eventually we'll payone day. There was another year
(28:19):
later. That's when they must havebeen on to him. Where they were
when they confiscated his computer. That'show they eventually came back to me.
They found that chat in the computerwhen they took it from his home.
They came to message. The twofederal agents came here to my home,
and they had asked me if Iwould testify, and I at that time
I wasn't sure I wanted to,but they assured me that it would be
(28:42):
a healing process that would be helpful, and so SHORT did. But I
did it, and you know,and I had to put it behind me.
And then now this seventeen years later, this, you know, here
we are again. Then I showup, but I but I welcome you
(29:03):
because I you know, and allthis time that span, I've learned more
from your podcast, you know,things that I would have been helpful to
me to know that I did,you know, they kept from you.
I don't know if they just purposelykept for me, you know, what
know, all some of the thingsthat would have been helpful to assist you
know, they they I think theypurposely kept some things for me and you
(29:25):
know, I don't know. Ikind of feel I do feel the the
institution that was meant to protect me, you know, in place they I
do still to this day, feelfailed by them. It's interesting because,
you know, I work with someonein the judicial system, and when we
(29:48):
got the police files, we bothfelt that the investigation into the homicide and
disappearance, Yes, was thorough andfelt serious and thoughtful, and it felt
like they really cared. But Ithink what we overlooked were the many,
many, many reports of assaults thatcame before that, right, that were
(30:11):
not treated with such dignity and respect. Right, And that's that's that's one
of the things that I discovered,you know, recently as well. And
I guess the sad consequence of thatis had they been perhaps these murders could
have been prevented, right, Ibelieve, I believe it, some of
(30:32):
them could have been. Now whatwas their response, the agents or the
detectives when you told them that youhad tried to file a report. They
just caught they a blank stare.They never really responded to it. They
never you know, it was neveryou know, I wasn't looking for anything,
but they never they never really saidany they never did say anything.
(30:55):
They I did tell them, theydo know it was it was on the
on the news channel, but theythey framed it as I was brushed off.
It's what how it was reported.And another thing we talked about a
few weeks ago is that when youwent out the following year and we're trying
(31:18):
to get word out about Stephen,it became pretty clear to you that his
behavior and his local criminal history wasa bit of an open secret. Absolutely,
I got I got the depression thatsome of the people that's put to
knew or I was the first oneto tell them, you know what I
was saying to them, But theyI often wondered. I do often wonder.
(31:41):
You know, the response you getis like a blank stare and I
don't know, it's it's too muchfor somebody to get brain to process,
or what do you say to that, you know, it's it is,
you know, it is a it'shard to digest. Well, I think
it's also emblematic of how gay peoplewere treated and it earlys by government and
(32:02):
police and just the society at large. Yes, I mean that that area.
You know, even before I cameout, you know, I worked
at a night club a couple ofcities away. I was younger, and
you know, you just the policethey say mistreatment, but there was definitely
a there's a difference in reporting,you know, they that I always call
(32:25):
it the old school, bullish schoolthat that was in charge. One thing
that has come up, you know, going back to Steven's behavior being well
known throughout Tampa's gay community is fromeveryone from street hustlers to bartenders to stand
up men in the gay community,people knew or at least had heard about
(32:47):
various attacks from Stephen. One guyeven told the police his address and they
never bothered looking into it, right, I mean, that's that's I just
I You're that puts fire Valley reallyupsus me. And I don't know if
it's changed to this. I don'tknow if it has that, if it
has changed any at all, Idon't. I'd like to think so,
(33:07):
But I feel like I think itssomething that this happened again. I think
I don't know if they were doanything differently. What makes you say that?
Just looking at the politics that's happeningdown there, you know, from
Afar just you know, the shippingof the rights of the gay community,
the trans community. It just Ijust don't feel like the group has necessarily
(33:30):
protected the same. Tell me aboutthe seventeen years between this, you know,
this happening to you and him finallygoing to prison. So I get
a detective and a police officer cometo my home here in Massachusetts. They
just walk and don't knock. AndI wasn't home, but I had watched
(33:50):
it from you know, it hadlertedme my phone that somebody had entered my
home. So I was walking mydogs close by, so i'd call the
police department, and the detective saidshe wanted to pick me up. Shi
had something to tell me, andI still couldn't get past that, you
know, I that somebody had enteredme. I don't care who you are
that entered my home without my permission, so that you know, no,
(34:15):
no, she wow, no.So that started. So it didn't start
off well because I was curiated thatthey just walked in. No, I
mean, you know, as avideo shows that just they just kind of
a kind of they just abruptly walkedin. So that's how it started.
When she picked me up, andthen she calmed me down and said that
she was contacted by that I'm aprosecutor in Tampa that they were prosecuting Stephen
(34:39):
Lorenzo for murder and that I wasbeing subpoened and they were looking for me.
So that was That was in twothousand, I think sixteen. So
each time it was going to trial, I would get a subpoena and it
would block out a month my time, So you're here therefore, subpoened from
(35:02):
It was usually like April to May, maybe June. So you know,
I struggled financially because of that,and that went on for that went on
for over five years, COVID hitthe case, kipt getting pushed off,
pushed off until it just happened lastFebruary. So I just and I'm trying
(35:22):
not to make assumptions or be biased, but the picture you're painting is essentially
you were ignored and then when theyneeded you, you were treated as a
cog and not a victim. Ibelieve That's how I feel. I did.
That's how I feel. They ranyou through five years of financial burden
(35:43):
in support of their case without evercaring about your experience. So I did
have an argument with the with theprosecuted J. Pruhner, because I took
I forgot how I phrased it,but I said, you know, my
your you're first of all your youryour case is not as important as my
life, and he just love me. He said that he thought that if
I thought that I was going tofuck his case up, that I had
(36:06):
another thing coming. So we hungup. He did call back and apologize,
but I he let me know thatthat that this was his case and
nothing was going to screw it up. He did. He didn't end up
prosecuting. The case went on solong, but I had trouble with him
from day one and the way hetreated me, and he let me know
that I'm not a lot longer inthis case, no longer victim. I'm
(36:28):
a witness. And you know theywent not under the same protection of a
victim and a witness, or Idon't have the same protections. What kind
of protections were you hoping for forto be? I, first of all,
I want I was learning. Iwas learning the case on my own.
They were supposed to keep me abreastof when it was happening, and
then I wouldn't hear anything for thelongest periods of time, so I would
(36:51):
have to, you know, Iwould google the case, which brought me
down that rabbit hole, which Ididn't you know, I did. I
scraped together a life once I gotwhere I live, because it's ultimately it's
a safe town and and I couldblock it out, but every time it
came up in the news, that'show I found out what was happening.
They were supposed to. I thoughtit was supposed to keep me abreast of
(37:14):
every you know, the changes,and they never did, not one time.
So then I would, you know, like I said, google the
case. And then it brought me, you know, it brought me down
this rabbit hole just of you know, it brought me back to the bad
place again. And I felt likethey expected me to drop everything my life
(37:35):
at a moment's, moment's notice,and that's what I had to do.
Were you assigned like an advocate oranything through the system? No, no,
no no. And then when Iwent to when they wanted to arrange
my transportation, the lady was thetransportation lady was you know, it was
a big ordeal because she was apoet. Like I live in a I
(37:58):
live in a you know, awayfrom a major airport that flies you know,
commercial, so I'd had to takea plane to another and they didn't
want to pay. They didn't wantto pay, and I was told I
was a coming, and then theyupon threat that I said, if I
if I you know, I didn'tknow how I did mention to know how
I felt about the death penalty becauseI felt I did feel that there was
other cases that he might have beenlinked to and that would end with him
(38:19):
if he would you ever decide toChad And they said that, you know,
I have no say in that,which I didn't really expect you,
but it's wanted to voice it.So overall, I'm not sure as I
would say that I felt more.I feel just as traumatized by the by
the process than I do, butby Stephen Lorenzo affected, I'm not affected.
I should say it was cool.I feel more long term affected by
the process. Right because somebody hadasked me, you know, advice,
(38:42):
if somebody you knew that you lovewere a victim of violent crime, what
would be your advice? And I, to this day I don't know if
I could give it because I Ia part of me feels like if you
want to keep your life and don'tbecause really what happens is your life is
hijacked and I'm not looking for anyrecognition. But the person that prosecutes the
(39:04):
skates, who doesn't care about you, gets all the glory and they don't
really give They don't give a shitabout you at all or the community.
I mean their actions show that,showed that. But it's also like you're
putting a lot on the line beyondthat. You know, we talked previously,
and I am also an assault victim, and there's a certain level of
like like the way people approach youwhen they find that out, it can
(39:25):
be unsettling or it is just retraumatizing. And so you were willing to
put that all out there for thecourt, and in return, they treated
you like an animal. I don'tknow an animal will be the right word,
but they they guy was that theyowned me. I felt owned by
them. God, that's so fuckedup. Yeah, it was. Yeah,
(39:46):
it's it's to this day I strugglewith it. I have to say
that now as I encountered this lasttrial, I didn't meet the DA that
prosecuted that questioned me when I wason the sand. She was lovely.
I can't say not everybody was thatway, but the top tier, the
men that I encountered other than thedetective Chuck and the da ab Right,
(40:12):
they couldn't have been more helpful.But but they they weren't, you know,
weren't there all the time. Itwas the main DA the prosecutors that
I that gave me, you know, gave I wanna say, trouble,
but they made my life difficult.When he was finally sentenced, How did
that feel, I guess on apersonal level. And then also did it
(40:36):
make it feel like all of thatwas worthwhile? No? I know,
I don't know. I don't knowif I had any feeling I know how
I felt. I don't know ifit was any feeling at all. I
just I was happy for it tobe over. But I I guess I
felt better that time, knowing thatI thought that would be the last time
I did't have have to hear hisname again, or you know, I
(40:58):
could put it behind me. Inever heard to me that that another trial
would be up and coming, andthe fact that you know, to go
through having to be questioned by him, you know, you know, I
just feel like he pulled out everyyou know, in the end, he
got every he got. He's humoredby this, he got pleasure out of
(41:21):
cross examining me, and I willnever escape me as Pam Jason's mother who's
recently passed away, you know,sit there battle no no one that she
battled cancer all this time, andhaving to learn every every detail what he
did to him in the courtroom.I just I think that he was able
(41:43):
to how coordinate that was just Ifound that to be disgusting of the process.
Yeah, I often wonder if that'sthe reason he chose to represent himself.
I'm sure of it. I'm sureof it. Stephen Lorenzo represented himself
(42:05):
during the penalty phase and sentencing earing, and so he was given the opportunity
to face and question every single oneof his own surviving victims who were brave
enough to testify against him. Hewas antagonistic, he was flippant, He
was proud and smug and smiled thewhole time. He smiled as he tried
(42:32):
to undermine the testimony of the menthat he victimized. Mister Lorenza, do
you have any questions of this witness? Mister that's not what to testify at
(42:53):
the Federal child. You took thisand turned it into something ten times than
what he testified. The first timeyou're playing victor. That's fine. Are
you talking Hotty twenty nine on thescreen name or what are you? I
believe so, yes, you surewere on twelve twenty one, mister Lorenzo.
(43:14):
No comments after. You can askquestions, but don't comment on the
answers. You ask another question inthat chat that we had together, did
you mention that you were going tovisit some of your friends? No?
(43:34):
Who were the friends that you weregoing to meet Josie and Dwayne? Do
you know who Josie and Dwayne werein the gay community as far as what
did they do? Well? WasJosie and Dwayne the main drug dealers for
Tampa? I've never way, I'veover rule as torrelevance. I'll allow it.
(43:59):
The witness answered you doesn't know?Is that correct? Yes? Were
you going to an after hours partywith Josie and Dwayne to have a drug
party and sex party with the defender? Did you go to the defendant's house
to have sex with the defendant afterwe did some drugs at the bar?
(44:25):
I have him a perfect questions?Thank you? Any read direct? Maybe
this witness be released by the stateand released by the defense, be released
all right, thank you. Certainstep down may be released as a witness
of this silence. I like,I just can't get over this feeling of
(44:58):
you know, this whole thing beginsbecause he's taken away your autonomy and now
here you are in a situation whereyou're trying to help the system, right,
and now he gets to do itagain, while also the prosecution is
doing the exact same thing to you, right right. If you could do
it all over again, do youthink you would cooperate? I would.
(45:22):
I I'd like to say that Iwould say no because out of emotion,
I would say no, But Iwould because I have I have sisters,
I have a daughter. I thinkit's your duty to report. So also,
I believe silence is what passes itoff to somebody else. And I
don't think I could live with myselfno longer that I stay silent and somebody
(45:45):
else was assaulted in that fashion.So yes, I would. Now you
reached out to me. What promptedyou to reach out? I stumbled upon
your podcast and things that were inyour podcast I were things that kind of
weighed on me. Does it takea genius to know that there are other
(46:08):
victims out there that I'm sure ofit. And I've been told that somebody
that's been working on also working onthe case, can put Stephen in the
vicinity of where these men are havegone missing the area, and so that
leads me to believe that they again, that this investigation did a shoddy job.
(46:30):
And knowing what he said, oneof his goals was to assault,
make somebody disappear on the holidays orany day, just so the their family
would suffer, you know, theheartache every year. You know, I
think about my mom knowing you ifhe did ultimately carry out what he meant
to do to me, that mymother, who has an adible luxury,
(46:52):
wondering where I was so time reallyreally upsets me. I can't imagine a
parent being one that there are peoplenot knowing what happened to their loved one.
And I do believe that he's attachedto other cases that could be solved
if somebody cared enough to dive ina little deeper with the level of what
he did to just the two thathe was prosecutor over Jason and Michael tells
(47:15):
me that that's not somebody that didthis. For the first time, he
let me know that there was people. I don't know, so I do
my heart, my gut tells me, my tuition tells me that he's responsible
for the disappearance of many others.In the end, Stephen Lorenzo was sentenced
(47:47):
to two hundred years in prison bythe federal court and was sentenced to death
by the State of Florida. Asof today, he remains alive and in
prison. Scott Schweikert testified against Lorenzoin exchange for life in prison for his
involvement in the kidnappings, assaults,and murders of Jason Galehouse, and Michael
(48:10):
Wackles. And I agree with Albertthat there are likely other victims, and
in the remaining three episodes of thisseason, I will take you into our
investigation and to who those victims couldbe. Through Lorenzo's trial in sentencing,
(48:30):
Schweikert's testimony, the hundreds of instantmessenger chats, Lorenzo's and Schweikert's browser and
residential histories, and the brave testimoniesof Albert and other surviving victims, We've
created a very specific profile of likelyvictims, possible victims of Lorenzo and Schweikert
as well as possible victims of JustLorenzo and possible victims of Just Schweikert.
(48:57):
I believe both men were committing murdersbefore they found each other. Lorenzo's crimes
were an open secret in the Tampagay community, and despite multiple reports to
police, nothing was done, atleast not until he was linked to homicides,
(49:22):
and that's when the police suddenly caredabout the man who had reported their
assaults for years leading up to themurders of Jason Galehouse and Michael Wockle's.
They assaulted marginalized and vulnerable men withintheir own community, and they knew they
could get away with it, andthey were right. As young gay men,
(49:47):
you spend so much of your lifein the closet, in fear,
in hiding. Then you go outinto the world and you find your community,
and you finally feel safe and sightedand seen and free, and for
the first time in your life,you don't feel like you have to worry
about the people around you, aboutthem finding out about you or hurting you,
(50:15):
certainly not killing you. You getto feel free. You're supposed to
feel free. Unlike Albert, Inever reported my rape and assault. I
was afraid I was justifiably afraid,afraid of being dismissed, afraid of not
(50:38):
being believed, afraid of having tostand trial for my own rape, afraid
that the worst thing that ever happenedto me would mean nothing to the people
who were supposed to care the most, who were supposed to protect me.
What Albert did was incredibly brave andincredible, I believe selfless, and could
(51:04):
have prevented countless other assaults and themurders of two innocent young men if only
a gay men were treated as human. Do you feel like you've been able
(51:27):
to heal it all from this?I have, I do. I I've
grown from it. I don't knowif heal I've grown from it. I
I have triggers that I have hadtherapy, and I feel I'm a different
person. I don't know how toexplain it, but I'm not. I'm
just a whole different person. II'm more's. It's helped in a way
(51:51):
where I'm able to more empathetic topeople that have have had have been assaulted,
which I don't know. You know, I don't know if I've really
paid attention before, but I Iconnect with people. I'm gonna put myself
on other people's shoes easier. However, it's I there's a piece of me
that he took. I would neverlet him know, I would never want
(52:13):
him to know. But you know, he didn't murder me physically, but
he took something from me. Idon't know what exactly, what to name
it, but I'm not the sameperson. He didn't. He managed to
he managed to grab something from me. Yeah, I think a lot about
the many nights I've spent awake hatingmy attackers, right, and just the
(52:37):
wasted energy and that being wrong forme. Right right, it is right,
I mean, don't I mean youfeel I mean that's a I have
those nights as well. But beforeI went to therapy, I because I
didn't really know. I thought Iwas doing well because I had to.
(52:59):
I had to come back to anew job, new house again. My
daughter came to live with me.So I feel like he robbed me.
I don't know what, I youknow what kind of I felt like I'd
been a better partner, a betterfather, a better worker. I just
was. I went through the motionsand I didn't realize I thought I was
(53:22):
doing well until I went to aa friend's tells for Dad me over for
dinner, and very few people knewup here what had happened. But in
the background, as we were sayingfor dinner, there was I think the
show might have been on order.It was on and a lady was being
assaulted, and I felt my lipsstarted to tremble, and then my whole
(53:43):
bodies went into shapes, and Ijust got up and excused myself. I
didn't know how to explain what washappening. I didn't know what was happening,
but that hearing somebody in distress orbeing assaulted has a bad effect on
me. They never asked after Ihad seen them. After they never asked.
I never explained. I didn't knowhow to explain. But so I
(54:07):
stay away from you. I can'twatch television. I'm very I'm aware of
my entrance and exits. Certain thingsthat you do to that probably will never
change. I never locked my doorbefore. I never had any fear,
you know, in the town thatI live in, no matter what time
of day or where I was,I've never felt unsafe, and I think
(54:29):
I'm lucky that I had that Ihad that. I don't know if I
didn't have that where I would havebeen far ahead of the game. Yeah,
it's funny. I there's this feelingof not wanting to burden people,
yes, exactly, and that younever feel like you are your entire your
(54:50):
self with people you don't That's that'sexactly, that's well port, that's how
I feel. How do I meanyou're having a bad day. It's hard
to explain, you know, orsomething arises, what do you see?
It's what do you say? It'snot something that just it's an easy explanation,
and I don't know. So it'syeah, I do. I feel.
(55:12):
I've never been socially awkward before,and I've always really connected to my
friends. Whatever I do, Ifeel, I feel a little bit removed
now after this. I feel alittle bit on the outside. Yellows with
(55:39):
fotits, gomma new red fit,the jacket, all these poses, that's
beautiful poses makes a boy feel likepicking up roses. There's never and such
(56:00):
scrap mad ors, comparing on newbrand name black sunglasses. All these close
it's such beautiful closes, snakes,city bars. I feel as pretty as
princess. The green tom nopos conductin and the city streets of wundress sc
(56:30):
seeing all these poses or how weblame. Life is a game and you
love is a trophy. World.My head about it, baby, same
(57:01):
worldch my head about it, Myhead about on on on. We climbed
(57:32):
amongst these packs of reasons for thesmoke, the days away to the evenings.
All these poses of classical torture ruinedmy mind like a snake in the
orchard. I did go from wantingto be someone now drunken wa flip flaps
(58:04):
on Fifth Avenue. Once you fundfrom classical virtue. Episode A Little Way
up the Green Nets, clut Citystreetreus facing these closes now boys, Ma
(58:34):
man agrees with that is. Thisepisode was written, researched, edited and
produced by me Josh Hallmark. Theepisode featured Albert Perkins. Resources included Fox
thirteen, Tampa Bay, The TampaBay Times, and the Netflix documentary Victim
Suspect. This episode was made possibleby the following Patreon producers, Adrian I
(58:59):
Yellow and Emelia Hancock, Amy Baseland at El, Benjamin Choppapong, Casey
Jensen Richardson, Dana Keith, DrewVipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Ali Hodzik,
Julian Natale, John O'Leary, Kendall, C. Kimberly, kay Lauren
F Lindsay, Curtis Lindley, tuscoffManolas Bulicus, Nicole and Dennis Henry,
Sarah King, s C. ShelleyBrewer, Tuesday Woodworth, The zach Ignatowitz,
Warren, Ashley Harris, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor,
(59:22):
Carly McNutt, Lana Sarah Ce,Shawna Harden and Lydia Fiedler. Thank you
to True Crime Bullshit's newest Patreon supporters, Case ravel E, M B Kiran
L Aubrey, M, Misseri,s Kayla, Michelle B Cox, Cameron,
DP, christ Bill, J,Jessica O, Chip, Teresa,
Jenny, A, Anna, KatherineC, Deja, j Emily M,
Georgina V and Amanda. To supportthe investigation, go to Patreon, dot
(59:45):
com, slash Studio both And.This episode included music by circles Field,
Ya Haskel Res and Ahimsa, withfeatured music by Rufus Wainwright. A baby
Say what what's my head about?My head about on no no, on,
(01:00:24):
no no no cut
This is a studio both and production. This episode contains testimony which includes explicit
descriptions of assault. Please listen withcare. When you first remained consciousness,
is your duct table over your eyes? Yes? Is that at some point
(00:30):
removed by the defendant? Yes?And then back in the beginning on and
off. I went from leading,which which aroused him, and then threatening.
And it seems like that he tolerantthat as much as so we would
(00:53):
put that back over my eyes andmouse I completely learned not to thre So
it was throughout the attack that therewas duct tape over your eyes, and
was it over your mouth as well? But it was also removed and reapply
(01:15):
it. So you first regained consciousnessand you are on your stomach, does
he roll you over? Is hesaying anything to you in the beginning now,
But she let me know that shehad made other people disappear and that
would be my fate. There aremore than four hundred and sixty thousand sexual
(01:48):
assaults in the United States every year. Only thirty percent of those are reported
to the police, and only onepercent of perpetrators are ever prosecuted. There
is so little justice for victims.Journalist Gray de Leone from the Netflix documentary
Victim Suspect. Stephen Lorenzo went tocourt twice for his crimes, first federally
(02:20):
in two thousand six, where hewas indicted for the assaults and possession charges.
Generally, federal courts will only trya murder case if it is connected
to another crime, for example,transporting a kidnapping victim across state lines and
then murdering that victim. Homicide casesare predominantly left up to the state courts
(02:44):
to try in the jurisdiction where thecrime occurred, or in some cases where
the body was found. With thefederal case against Stephen Lorenzo, it was
not definitively proven that there was alink between the possession and use of drugs
and the deaths of Jason Galehouse andMichael Walkles, but based on the evidence
(03:06):
they had, the federal prosecutors wereable to add charges and try Lorenzo for
the use of drugs to facilitate anassault. So the logical question would be
why did they add these charges.Lorenzo had the potential for being charged and
tried for murder in a state courtin a state that has the death penalty,
(03:29):
so why add these charges at thefederal level. Well at the time
the assault trial was proceeding, thestate prosecutor hadn't yet made a decision as
to whether or not Lorenzo and Schweikertwould be charged with murder at the state
level, so it seems likely thatthe Feds were able to achieve some semblance
(03:49):
of justice for Jason and Michael byhaving them named in a federal indictment.
The more charges, the longer thesentence, and in two thousand seve if
no one knew whether murder charges wouldbe filed, this was a way to
keep Lorenzo incarcerated so he couldn't harmany other members of the community. But
(04:12):
Lorenzo was eventually arraigned and indicted atthe state level for the murders of Jason
and Michael, for which he wouldeventually plead guilty, but due to the
investigation, the federal trial and thenCOVID, the state penalty phase didn't happen
until twenty twenty two, eighteen yearsafter Jason and Michael were murdered, and
(04:34):
the sentencing hearing didn't happen until Februaryof twenty twenty three. Throughout the judicial
process, many of Lorenzo's surviving victimscame forward to testify. Some testified for
both hearings, and in many senses, they themselves were arrested for close to
(04:55):
two decades while those hearings played out. They were trapped in the worst moments
of their lives while they awaited andhoped for some semblance of justice. One
of the most impactful testimonies was thatof Albert Perkins, who was assaulted by
Stephen Lorenzo in February of two thousand, twenty three years before Lorenzo would actually
(05:19):
be sentenced. Prosecutors were able tolink Lorenzo to Albert after finding messages between
the two on Lorenzo's AOL account ayear. A couple of years later,
somebody had handed me. I hadtried to warn as many people as I
could after I had called the police, and somebody had hinded me his screen
(05:44):
name. For whatever reason, Ilogged it. Maybe another year went by.
It was on the computer. Landpopped up, Andy saw me there.
You say, you logged it?What does that mean? At that
time it was AOL was popular.It was they said it was about you
know, it would be a buddylist. So I locked it on that
list, and I was on thecomputer and it popped up on an instant
(06:05):
like an instant message. You meanthe system would show you who was online?
Yea, yes, And it poppedup that screen name that you had
been given by someone else that wasidentified to the defendant. And what did
you do when you saw them?I sent him a message, I said,
(06:28):
between me and you and God,you know what you did? You
begg Did the defendant ever respond yesand said what he said? I believe
he said, I was bitter.Is that the last time you ever had
any kind of interaction of contact priorto the defendant's arrest? Yes, it
was the last? Yes, alast. Albert Perkins testified for close to
(06:58):
twenty minutes. It would be hissecond time testifying and recounting his assault,
and through that very public testimony duringthe sentencing hearing, Albert went into heartbreaking
and often eerie detail about how hemet Stephen Lorenzo and what Stephen Lorenzo did
(07:19):
to him. Perkins's testimony was impactfulboth that trial and to us for many
reasons. For starters, his accountof the assault so closely mirrored Lorenzo's other
surviving victims, and the narrative aroundwhat likely happened with both Jason Galehouse and
(07:44):
Michael Wackle's. Secondly, it demonstratedintent. Third it established a clear m
O which would help us in oursearch to identify other potential victims. And
it showed just how brazen Lorenzo wasand how unresponsive Tampa p D was to
(08:07):
the initial assault accusations against him.Were you living here full time in February?
I was, Can you tell meabout how you ended up in Tampa
as of February to that? Allright? I lived seasonally for many years,
so I was going back and forthto the Boston area, and then
I grew up here. And whatchanged in February two thousand, I was,
(08:31):
You're on a work family vacation andhow that was yourself was assaulted by
mister Lorenzo during that visit. Didyou have contact with mister Lorenzo at some
point in the month of February Idid. Do you recall the exact date,
(08:52):
exact day? I know, butI know it was a third February.
And how is it that you cameinto contact with mister Lorenzo? I
robbed. I was here early,so I think did I go trying to
get some friends that I had noreally close years at that time. Did
you know the defendant's actual name?I did not. Did you know him
(09:13):
at all just by appearance his face? Had you come into contact with him
prior to the Derby Confederate? Hadyou seen him out socially prior to them?
Yes? Is that how you recognizedhim? Can you tell me what
happened and how you came into contactwith him that night? I was I
(09:33):
was sitting at a stoush and Ihad come up to me small talk.
I moved on to the somewhere downthe road and at each place that I
read tops was a small talk andI and at that time I most looking
for my friends in the city inEdom, and that was the incentive.
(09:58):
Did you believe him when he saidyou know your friend? Is that based
on your choir interactions with him socially? Yes, maybe not having met him
or talked to him, but havingseen him speak and talk to the same
people that you sometimes small it wasa small group, so he always just
seemed to be off into the background. Do you remember some of the things
(10:20):
that you were talking about when youmade small talks of the defendant? The
last conversation I remember he said hewas in contact with one of something that
was before they were having to gettogether at their house. And surely to
get why, I followed him.Did you drive your own vehicle and you
(10:41):
followed behind the defendant driving his vehicle? Did you drive directly to the party
that you suspected or expected your friendsto be at? The stop off was
it was a parking issue, soone of the cars had to be left.
So I was under the impression ofdropping his car off, and then
you would go from there. Youmean a parking issue, not space,
Yes, it goes so Stephen Lorenzofound Albert alone in a bar and then
(11:11):
seemed to follow him to every otherbar that he went throughout that night.
And when Albert said that he waslooking for friends, Lorenzo claimed to know
those friends and said he could helpfind them. And then, much like
with witness A, Lorenzo lured Albertback to his house. When you dropped
(11:33):
his car off, did you allgo inside the residence side? I believe
he mentioned he used the restroom.I followed him inside. Do you know
where you made an entry? Wasat the front door? The back door?
I believe it was a side doorgood to the kitchen? And where
did he go when you went her? As I walked in, I recall
(11:56):
there was a the kitchen for aglass of wine at each use themselves?
Kah absolutely, What did you expectto be there? And long before you
arrived? Before you arrived, didyou have any kind of conversation with a
defendant about engaging in sexual acts?Did you have any conversations what's the word
(12:18):
about engagement? Yes, you expectedto be stopping off at that residence temporarily
before proceeding to a party. Yousaid that you'd had someone here drink,
and that's about the last you remember. Do you remember what kind of drink
it was? And was there anythingodd about the wine itself? Yes?
(12:41):
Can you tell me about that taste? It it's had funny, it's myself.
Maybe it possibly was that the wineitself had turned And what how long
do you remember after having your firsttip of that wine? Shortly after just
(13:03):
my vision became glorried. I feltnauxious when I believe when I stood up,
I was enabled too, and Ibelieve one of them parts of my
love. Were you conscious at leastfor some time there in the living room
(13:24):
yes. And at some point doyou wake up when I awoke? I
didn't at that time, I didn'tknow where I was. When I was,
I had duct him over my eyesand mom, and were you in
a seated position? I was facedout? Was there anything else that you
(13:45):
could feel because you could not see? You said you had ducts over your
eyes. Could you feel anything elseabout your body and how you were positioned?
Yes? That was my arms onmy legs were about Also want that
wrote war t one around your neckconnected to anything else? My genitals?
(14:07):
And tell me about the restraints onyour arms and let you those connected to
each other the bed? What werethey connected to? Honestly, I believe
that my my legs and my armswere tied together, and also part of
was tied to up part of thebed. Were you able to move very
(14:28):
little? But no? Almost no. What is the first thing that you
recall when you actually regain consciousness?But the duccape is still over your eyes?
I was panicked, hysterical, andI remember seeing him saying he turned
(14:52):
me over and he was sitting onthe side of the bed, and I
we just recall his his face andhe didn't look the same without one so
nothing behind his eyes were dark.His face was contorted, which further panted
me, what were you saying backto him? I went from leading for
(15:20):
him to let me go to consistingthat he does, and then I went
from from that to just be quiet. I realized that when I was quiet,
it seemed to lose interest. Youpreviously indicated that he was seated on
(15:43):
the bed next to what was hedoing? The room was dark, but
he was there's somebody, Uh,he's massuring, and he did he say
anything to you while he was doingthat most of the time. But that's
(16:06):
what the post appearance, and thatseveral times I was huge. I believe
how long he could approximate would thisgo on for ours? I believe from
(16:26):
leaving his home to where to whereI ended up as an hour, so
I recalled. The last time Irecalled was at midnight, so from midnight
to five am. We discussed thatafter you had the line, you lost
consciousness for some time and regained consciousnessand you were already bound. Is that
(16:47):
correct? Throughout the entirety of theattack? Did you remain conscious or were
there also times that you lost consciousness? I lost consciousness because he was choking
me to well consciousness. Was hesaying anything? Then when you regained consciousness,
(17:08):
would he still be in the room? Yes, he would still seated
beside me. Do you know approximatelyhow many times did that happen? Several
times? In addition to strangling you? Was he doing other things to your
body? Hitting me, beating me, pinging me, pulling on the whatever
(17:30):
he tied me? Would? Ibelieve it was twine? And throughout the
duration of the attack, at leastin the beginning, were you were pleading
with him? Is that what yousaid? Yes, I started with hysteria.
It was hysterical. You mentioned whenI first asked you about when you
(17:52):
realized you were tied up and onthe bed. You mentioned that the duct
tape would come off, and yousaw those bended's eyes. Tell me about
that there wasn't anything behind them.That's what I gather that I was in
real trouble because there was He didn'tlook like the same person it was.
There was just nothing there, black, emotionless. Was that for the duration
(18:21):
of the assault. Are you awareat any time as to whether you were
penetrated during the soul? I don'tbelieve so. Ultimately, the attack does
come to an end. Can youtell me about how that happened? I
asked, or to mention that Ihave used the restaurant so partially untied followed
(18:48):
me in there. When he swipedme back to the head, I,
like I said, I was quiet, so I believe he dozed off or
lie down so he didn't completely tireme other wa I had one hand free,
which managed I managed to get myselfout of the rest and slowly on
(19:10):
my clothes, got dressed and walkedup fully thinking that I wasn't leaving there.
It was like time I stood stilland I thought he would be the
shooting your step. Have you threatenedto harm you in those ways before you
other than telling me that he wouldmake me disappear? Now, from the
(19:37):
time you walked in that side doorto the time you walked out of that
residence, was there anyone else presentother than the defendants? Did you hear
anyone else other than the defendant?And you did not see anyone else?
(19:59):
Well? To you were able toask? And what did you do in
your accident? I got to Ihad followed by my mother's car. I
was surprised the key that the keyswere in it, and I for a
while did you report it to thepolice. In Albert's own words, he's
(20:30):
lucky to be alive. Had Lorenzonot untied one hand so that he could
use the bathroom and then promptly fallenasleep, Albert likely would not have been
able to escape Lorenzo's house that day. You may recall that it was Stephen
Lorenzo's AOL count that led the prosecutionto Albert and not the police report that
(20:56):
he tried to file after the attack. Well, that came up in our
conversation this past November after Albert reachedout to me when he heard the podcast.
My name is Alert Perkins. Iwas one of Stephen Lorenzo's living survivors.
(21:17):
Participated in both trials, the federaland the state's capital murder trial,
and that was over a seventeen yearprocess, and I feel blessed to have
survived him. I didn't live inthe state that had happened at the time,
and you know, the last trialthere was details that I was not
made frivy till until I went totrial. So I consider myself very lucky
(21:41):
to be here and happy to helpit anyway I can with it. The
numerous missing people that I feel couldeasily be connected. I just feel like
I do feel like the wall wasdropped. Albert Perkins reached out to me
(22:02):
shortly after the second episode of thepodcast aired. He said that he wanted
to thank me for looking into thecase. That he'd learned more about the
crimes of Stephen Lorenzo and Scott Schweikertfrom this podcast than from being involved in
the investigation and both hearings, andhe urged me to keep looking into other
(22:23):
possible victims because he felt certain thatthere were more out there. A month
later, he agreed to chat withme on the record and on Mike.
This conversation includes his recounting opinions andperceptions of the investigation and of how the
(22:44):
prosecution handled the case. These werehis experiences as a person who was victimized
by Stephen Lorenzo and as some onewho testified twice against him. I've not
independently verified his accounts. My immediatefamily still lives in that area in Florida,
(23:07):
and I had just taken on ajob and closed on my mortgage,
and my daughter had come to livewith me. So I was going down
for like like a family vacation andbut I had gotten there early. Nobody
nobody was Nobody was there when Iarrived. So I went out to see
if I could meet up some oldfriends and I forgot the first place that
(23:30):
I was at. I ended upchatting. You know, I had drinks
under my belt and I got chattyand Stephen Lorenzo was a person sitting next
to me, and I think oncehe knew that, I probably told him
that I was there early. Nobodyknow I was there, and I think
that's what realised At the time hehad followed me to all the other places
that I had went to. Hehappened to be there, but previous to
(23:51):
that, I had you know,it's a very small community, and the
time that I went there, Ihad seen him before. I didn't know
him, but I I it wasa group of us that played darts together
when we were when I was down, and you know, he was always
sitting on the outs, on theoutside quiet. I think that's what made
me even a little more comfortable toyou know, I had recognized his face
(24:14):
on that time. When the secondtime that I encountered him, and I
just and I often wondered because Igrew up in a very sheltered. You
know, I grew up to youknow, leave it sounds corny, but
like leave it to be the hustle, the perry. So people like him
only existed in movies and never ina million years that I would ever think
that I would be sitting next tosomebody like that. You know, I
(24:37):
also for me at least, andI'm a little bit younger than you.
But back then, I always feltlike if there was one place where I
didn't have to look over my shoulder, where I could feel safe, it
was in the gay community, rightknow, you know, and I mean
he was known through other and Iknew he knew other people that you know,
I watched socialize with, you knowthe bar, you know, a
(25:00):
tender and some other you know,other faces I recognized, So he wasn't
unknown, wasn't a complete stranger.So you know that also probably lowered my
guard somewhat. But I what Ione of the difficult things that I that
I did struggle with my my nextencounter with him on the court, when
(25:22):
I walked in the room, hewas quite a distance away. He was
in the jail jumpsuit and he wasshackled, rocking and right right when I
walked to that door, you couldyou could see crazy, and I thought,
you know, I really have alwayskind of beaten myself up with I
thought, how did I you know, how do you miss that? Definitely
(25:44):
couldn't then because the eyes it was, It's always been the eyes that I've
never escaped for me. So wetalked a few weeks ago, and you
mentioned your experience trying to report thisattack. Could you share that with me
(26:06):
again? So when I remember spasiblywhen I got when I left his place,
my car was still there, andI drove home back to my family's
home, walked in. My motherwas doing dishes or cooking, I don't
remember. It was six o'clock.Looked at the clock it was six am.
(26:30):
And when I walked in, shehad My mother looked at me and
just walked away and I left.Called my partner at the time. At
that point, I didn't really knowwhat I looked like, but he had
said something was up and eat boughtme to fly home that day, which
I did, and he, Iwant to say, forced me, but
(26:51):
he encouraged me to call the Tampapolice, which I did. I don't
remember who I spoke to other thanit was a woman trying and I tried
to, you know, give thedetails of what happened. She really from
the beginning couldn't she could hide her. It was like disgusted, you know,
when she knew it was two menwhere I was, which was at
that twenty six h sixth place,she just was not interested in in the
(27:15):
and she ended up just hanging upon me, and I just never really
pursued it after that. So shehung up with you without ever filing a
report. Yes, she hung upon me. Yes, about maybe a
(27:36):
year later. You know, Ihad gone back to as in my family
and I had tried to went outto some of the not that place,
but some of the places you know, my friends would go to. And
I try to warn as many peopleas I could. And I don't have
the person's name, but he hadgiven me Steve Lorenzo's screen name, and
(27:56):
he said, I just for somereason, I think you should have this.
And back in those as, Ihad logged it, but I had
forgotten about it. And I hadjust got my first new computer. I
was home and online and his namehad popped up and I typed him.
I said, between me and youand God, you know what you did,
and you well, eventually we'll payone day. There was another year
(28:19):
later. That's when they must havebeen on to him. Where they were
when they confiscated his computer. That'show they eventually came back to me.
They found that chat in the computerwhen they took it from his home.
They came to message. The twofederal agents came here to my home,
and they had asked me if Iwould testify, and I at that time
I wasn't sure I wanted to,but they assured me that it would be
(28:42):
a healing process that would be helpful, and so SHORT did. But I
did it, and you know,and I had to put it behind me.
And then now this seventeen years later, this, you know, here
we are again. Then I showup, but I but I welcome you
(29:03):
because I you know, and allthis time that span, I've learned more
from your podcast, you know,things that I would have been helpful to
me to know that I did,you know, they kept from you.
I don't know if they just purposelykept for me, you know, what
know, all some of the thingsthat would have been helpful to assist you
know, they they I think theypurposely kept some things for me and you
(29:25):
know, I don't know. Ikind of feel I do feel the the
institution that was meant to protect me, you know, in place they I
do still to this day, feelfailed by them. It's interesting because,
you know, I work with someonein the judicial system, and when we
(29:48):
got the police files, we bothfelt that the investigation into the homicide and
disappearance, Yes, was thorough andfelt serious and thoughtful, and it felt
like they really cared. But Ithink what we overlooked were the many,
many, many reports of assaults thatcame before that, right, that were
(30:11):
not treated with such dignity and respect. Right, And that's that's that's one
of the things that I discovered,you know, recently as well. And
I guess the sad consequence of thatis had they been perhaps these murders could
have been prevented, right, Ibelieve, I believe it, some of
(30:32):
them could have been. Now whatwas their response, the agents or the
detectives when you told them that youhad tried to file a report. They
just caught they a blank stare.They never really responded to it. They
never you know, it was neveryou know, I wasn't looking for anything,
but they never they never really saidany they never did say anything.
(30:55):
They I did tell them, theydo know it was it was on the
on the news channel, but theythey framed it as I was brushed off.
It's what how it was reported.And another thing we talked about a
few weeks ago is that when youwent out the following year and we're trying
(31:18):
to get word out about Stephen,it became pretty clear to you that his
behavior and his local criminal history wasa bit of an open secret. Absolutely,
I got I got the depression thatsome of the people that's put to
knew or I was the first oneto tell them, you know what I
was saying to them, But theyI often wondered. I do often wonder.
(31:41):
You know, the response you getis like a blank stare and I
don't know, it's it's too muchfor somebody to get brain to process,
or what do you say to that, you know, it's it is,
you know, it is a it'shard to digest. Well, I think
it's also emblematic of how gay peoplewere treated and it earlys by government and
(32:02):
police and just the society at large. Yes, I mean that that area.
You know, even before I cameout, you know, I worked
at a night club a couple ofcities away. I was younger, and
you know, you just the policethey say mistreatment, but there was definitely
a there's a difference in reporting,you know, they that I always call
(32:25):
it the old school, bullish schoolthat that was in charge. One thing
that has come up, you know, going back to Steven's behavior being well
known throughout Tampa's gay community is fromeveryone from street hustlers to bartenders to stand
up men in the gay community,people knew or at least had heard about
(32:47):
various attacks from Stephen. One guyeven told the police his address and they
never bothered looking into it, right, I mean, that's that's I just
I You're that puts fire Valley reallyupsus me. And I don't know if
it's changed to this. I don'tknow if it has that, if it
has changed any at all, Idon't. I'd like to think so,
(33:07):
But I feel like I think itssomething that this happened again. I think
I don't know if they were doanything differently. What makes you say that?
Just looking at the politics that's happeningdown there, you know, from
Afar just you know, the shippingof the rights of the gay community,
the trans community. It just Ijust don't feel like the group has necessarily
(33:30):
protected the same. Tell me aboutthe seventeen years between this, you know,
this happening to you and him finallygoing to prison. So I get
a detective and a police officer cometo my home here in Massachusetts. They
just walk and don't knock. AndI wasn't home, but I had watched
(33:50):
it from you know, it hadlertedme my phone that somebody had entered my
home. So I was walking mydogs close by, so i'd call the
police department, and the detective saidshe wanted to pick me up. Shi
had something to tell me, andI still couldn't get past that, you
know, I that somebody had enteredme. I don't care who you are
that entered my home without my permission, so that you know, no,
(34:15):
no, she wow, no.So that started. So it didn't start
off well because I was curiated thatthey just walked in. No, I
mean, you know, as avideo shows that just they just kind of
a kind of they just abruptly walkedin. So that's how it started.
When she picked me up, andthen she calmed me down and said that
she was contacted by that I'm aprosecutor in Tampa that they were prosecuting Stephen
(34:39):
Lorenzo for murder and that I wasbeing subpoened and they were looking for me.
So that was That was in twothousand, I think sixteen. So
each time it was going to trial, I would get a subpoena and it
would block out a month my time, So you're here therefore, subpoened from
(35:02):
It was usually like April to May, maybe June. So you know,
I struggled financially because of that,and that went on for that went on
for over five years, COVID hitthe case, kipt getting pushed off,
pushed off until it just happened lastFebruary. So I just and I'm trying
(35:22):
not to make assumptions or be biased, but the picture you're painting is essentially
you were ignored and then when theyneeded you, you were treated as a
cog and not a victim. Ibelieve That's how I feel. I did.
That's how I feel. They ranyou through five years of financial burden
(35:43):
in support of their case without evercaring about your experience. So I did
have an argument with the with theprosecuted J. Pruhner, because I took
I forgot how I phrased it,but I said, you know, my
your you're first of all your youryour case is not as important as my
life, and he just love me. He said that he thought that if
I thought that I was going tofuck his case up, that I had
(36:06):
another thing coming. So we hungup. He did call back and apologize,
but I he let me know thatthat that this was his case and
nothing was going to screw it up. He did. He didn't end up
prosecuting. The case went on solong, but I had trouble with him
from day one and the way hetreated me, and he let me know
that I'm not a lot longer inthis case, no longer victim. I'm
(36:28):
a witness. And you know theywent not under the same protection of a
victim and a witness, or Idon't have the same protections. What kind
of protections were you hoping for forto be? I, first of all,
I want I was learning. Iwas learning the case on my own.
They were supposed to keep me abreastof when it was happening, and
then I wouldn't hear anything for thelongest periods of time, so I would
(36:51):
have to, you know, Iwould google the case, which brought me
down that rabbit hole, which Ididn't you know, I did. I
scraped together a life once I gotwhere I live, because it's ultimately it's
a safe town and and I couldblock it out, but every time it
came up in the news, that'show I found out what was happening.
They were supposed to. I thoughtit was supposed to keep me abreast of
(37:14):
every you know, the changes,and they never did, not one time.
So then I would, you know, like I said, google the
case. And then it brought me, you know, it brought me down
this rabbit hole just of you know, it brought me back to the bad
place again. And I felt likethey expected me to drop everything my life
(37:35):
at a moment's, moment's notice,and that's what I had to do.
Were you assigned like an advocate oranything through the system? No, no,
no no. And then when Iwent to when they wanted to arrange
my transportation, the lady was thetransportation lady was you know, it was
a big ordeal because she was apoet. Like I live in a I
(37:58):
live in a you know, awayfrom a major airport that flies you know,
commercial, so I'd had to takea plane to another and they didn't
want to pay. They didn't wantto pay, and I was told I
was a coming, and then theyupon threat that I said, if I
if I you know, I didn'tknow how I did mention to know how
I felt about the death penalty becauseI felt I did feel that there was
other cases that he might have beenlinked to and that would end with him
(38:19):
if he would you ever decide toChad And they said that, you know,
I have no say in that,which I didn't really expect you,
but it's wanted to voice it.So overall, I'm not sure as I
would say that I felt more.I feel just as traumatized by the by
the process than I do, butby Stephen Lorenzo affected, I'm not affected.
I should say it was cool.I feel more long term affected by
the process. Right because somebody hadasked me, you know, advice,
(38:42):
if somebody you knew that you lovewere a victim of violent crime, what
would be your advice? And I, to this day I don't know if
I could give it because I Ia part of me feels like if you
want to keep your life and don'tbecause really what happens is your life is
hijacked and I'm not looking for anyrecognition. But the person that prosecutes the
(39:04):
skates, who doesn't care about you, gets all the glory and they don't
really give They don't give a shitabout you at all or the community.
I mean their actions show that,showed that. But it's also like you're
putting a lot on the line beyondthat. You know, we talked previously,
and I am also an assault victim, and there's a certain level of
like like the way people approach youwhen they find that out, it can
(39:25):
be unsettling or it is just retraumatizing. And so you were willing to
put that all out there for thecourt, and in return, they treated
you like an animal. I don'tknow an animal will be the right word,
but they they guy was that theyowned me. I felt owned by
them. God, that's so fuckedup. Yeah, it was. Yeah,
(39:46):
it's it's to this day I strugglewith it. I have to say
that now as I encountered this lasttrial, I didn't meet the DA that
prosecuted that questioned me when I wason the sand. She was lovely.
I can't say not everybody was thatway, but the top tier, the
men that I encountered other than thedetective Chuck and the da ab Right,
(40:12):
they couldn't have been more helpful.But but they they weren't, you know,
weren't there all the time. Itwas the main DA the prosecutors that
I that gave me, you know, gave I wanna say, trouble,
but they made my life difficult.When he was finally sentenced, How did
that feel, I guess on apersonal level. And then also did it
(40:36):
make it feel like all of thatwas worthwhile? No? I know,
I don't know. I don't knowif I had any feeling I know how
I felt. I don't know ifit was any feeling at all. I
just I was happy for it tobe over. But I I guess I
felt better that time, knowing thatI thought that would be the last time
I did't have have to hear hisname again, or you know, I
(40:58):
could put it behind me. Inever heard to me that that another trial
would be up and coming, andthe fact that you know, to go
through having to be questioned by him, you know, you know, I
just feel like he pulled out everyyou know, in the end, he
got every he got. He's humoredby this, he got pleasure out of
(41:21):
cross examining me, and I willnever escape me as Pam Jason's mother who's
recently passed away, you know,sit there battle no no one that she
battled cancer all this time, andhaving to learn every every detail what he
did to him in the courtroom.I just I think that he was able
(41:43):
to how coordinate that was just Ifound that to be disgusting of the process.
Yeah, I often wonder if that'sthe reason he chose to represent himself.
I'm sure of it. I'm sureof it. Stephen Lorenzo represented himself
(42:05):
during the penalty phase and sentencing earing, and so he was given the opportunity
to face and question every single oneof his own surviving victims who were brave
enough to testify against him. Hewas antagonistic, he was flippant, He
was proud and smug and smiled thewhole time. He smiled as he tried
(42:32):
to undermine the testimony of the menthat he victimized. Mister Lorenza, do
you have any questions of this witness? Mister that's not what to testify at
(42:53):
the Federal child. You took thisand turned it into something ten times than
what he testified. The first timeyou're playing victor. That's fine. Are
you talking Hotty twenty nine on thescreen name or what are you? I
believe so, yes, you surewere on twelve twenty one, mister Lorenzo.
(43:14):
No comments after. You can askquestions, but don't comment on the
answers. You ask another question inthat chat that we had together, did
you mention that you were going tovisit some of your friends? No?
(43:34):
Who were the friends that you weregoing to meet Josie and Dwayne? Do
you know who Josie and Dwayne werein the gay community as far as what
did they do? Well? WasJosie and Dwayne the main drug dealers for
Tampa? I've never way, I'veover rule as torrelevance. I'll allow it.
(43:59):
The witness answered you doesn't know?Is that correct? Yes? Were
you going to an after hours partywith Josie and Dwayne to have a drug
party and sex party with the defender? Did you go to the defendant's house
to have sex with the defendant afterwe did some drugs at the bar?
(44:25):
I have him a perfect questions?Thank you? Any read direct? Maybe
this witness be released by the stateand released by the defense, be released
all right, thank you. Certainstep down may be released as a witness
of this silence. I like,I just can't get over this feeling of
(44:58):
you know, this whole thing beginsbecause he's taken away your autonomy and now
here you are in a situation whereyou're trying to help the system, right,
and now he gets to do itagain, while also the prosecution is
doing the exact same thing to you, right right. If you could do
it all over again, do youthink you would cooperate? I would.
(45:22):
I I'd like to say that Iwould say no because out of emotion,
I would say no, But Iwould because I have I have sisters,
I have a daughter. I thinkit's your duty to report. So also,
I believe silence is what passes itoff to somebody else. And I
don't think I could live with myselfno longer that I stay silent and somebody
(45:45):
else was assaulted in that fashion.So yes, I would. Now you
reached out to me. What promptedyou to reach out? I stumbled upon
your podcast and things that were inyour podcast I were things that kind of
weighed on me. Does it takea genius to know that there are other
(46:08):
victims out there that I'm sure ofit. And I've been told that somebody
that's been working on also working onthe case, can put Stephen in the
vicinity of where these men are havegone missing the area, and so that
leads me to believe that they again, that this investigation did a shoddy job.
(46:30):
And knowing what he said, oneof his goals was to assault,
make somebody disappear on the holidays orany day, just so the their family
would suffer, you know, theheartache every year. You know, I
think about my mom knowing you ifhe did ultimately carry out what he meant
to do to me, that mymother, who has an adible luxury,
(46:52):
wondering where I was so time reallyreally upsets me. I can't imagine a
parent being one that there are peoplenot knowing what happened to their loved one.
And I do believe that he's attachedto other cases that could be solved
if somebody cared enough to dive ina little deeper with the level of what
he did to just the two thathe was prosecutor over Jason and Michael tells
(47:15):
me that that's not somebody that didthis. For the first time, he
let me know that there was people. I don't know, so I do
my heart, my gut tells me, my tuition tells me that he's responsible
for the disappearance of many others.In the end, Stephen Lorenzo was sentenced
(47:47):
to two hundred years in prison bythe federal court and was sentenced to death
by the State of Florida. Asof today, he remains alive and in
prison. Scott Schweikert testified against Lorenzoin exchange for life in prison for his
involvement in the kidnappings, assaults,and murders of Jason Galehouse, and Michael
(48:10):
Wackles. And I agree with Albertthat there are likely other victims, and
in the remaining three episodes of thisseason, I will take you into our
investigation and to who those victims couldbe. Through Lorenzo's trial in sentencing,
(48:30):
Schweikert's testimony, the hundreds of instantmessenger chats, Lorenzo's and Schweikert's browser and
residential histories, and the brave testimoniesof Albert and other surviving victims, We've
created a very specific profile of likelyvictims, possible victims of Lorenzo and Schweikert
as well as possible victims of JustLorenzo and possible victims of Just Schweikert.
(48:57):
I believe both men were committing murdersbefore they found each other. Lorenzo's crimes
were an open secret in the Tampagay community, and despite multiple reports to
police, nothing was done, atleast not until he was linked to homicides,
(49:22):
and that's when the police suddenly caredabout the man who had reported their
assaults for years leading up to themurders of Jason Galehouse and Michael Wockle's.
They assaulted marginalized and vulnerable men withintheir own community, and they knew they
could get away with it, andthey were right. As young gay men,
(49:47):
you spend so much of your lifein the closet, in fear,
in hiding. Then you go outinto the world and you find your community,
and you finally feel safe and sightedand seen and free, and for
the first time in your life,you don't feel like you have to worry
about the people around you, aboutthem finding out about you or hurting you,
(50:15):
certainly not killing you. You getto feel free. You're supposed to
feel free. Unlike Albert, Inever reported my rape and assault. I
was afraid I was justifiably afraid,afraid of being dismissed, afraid of not
(50:38):
being believed, afraid of having tostand trial for my own rape, afraid
that the worst thing that ever happenedto me would mean nothing to the people
who were supposed to care the most, who were supposed to protect me.
What Albert did was incredibly brave andincredible, I believe selfless, and could
(51:04):
have prevented countless other assaults and themurders of two innocent young men if only
a gay men were treated as human. Do you feel like you've been able
(51:27):
to heal it all from this?I have, I do. I I've
grown from it. I don't knowif heal I've grown from it. I
I have triggers that I have hadtherapy, and I feel I'm a different
person. I don't know how toexplain it, but I'm not. I'm
just a whole different person. II'm more's. It's helped in a way
(51:51):
where I'm able to more empathetic topeople that have have had have been assaulted,
which I don't know. You know, I don't know if I've really
paid attention before, but I Iconnect with people. I'm gonna put myself
on other people's shoes easier. However, it's I there's a piece of me
that he took. I would neverlet him know, I would never want
(52:13):
him to know. But you know, he didn't murder me physically, but
he took something from me. Idon't know what exactly, what to name
it, but I'm not the sameperson. He didn't. He managed to
he managed to grab something from me. Yeah, I think a lot about
the many nights I've spent awake hatingmy attackers, right, and just the
(52:37):
wasted energy and that being wrong forme. Right right, it is right,
I mean, don't I mean youfeel I mean that's a I have
those nights as well. But beforeI went to therapy, I because I
didn't really know. I thought Iwas doing well because I had to.
(52:59):
I had to come back to anew job, new house again. My
daughter came to live with me.So I feel like he robbed me.
I don't know what, I youknow what kind of I felt like I'd
been a better partner, a betterfather, a better worker. I just
was. I went through the motionsand I didn't realize I thought I was
(53:22):
doing well until I went to aa friend's tells for Dad me over for
dinner, and very few people knewup here what had happened. But in
the background, as we were sayingfor dinner, there was I think the
show might have been on order.It was on and a lady was being
assaulted, and I felt my lipsstarted to tremble, and then my whole
(53:43):
bodies went into shapes, and Ijust got up and excused myself. I
didn't know how to explain what washappening. I didn't know what was happening,
but that hearing somebody in distress orbeing assaulted has a bad effect on
me. They never asked after Ihad seen them. After they never asked.
I never explained. I didn't knowhow to explain. But so I
(54:07):
stay away from you. I can'twatch television. I'm very I'm aware of
my entrance and exits. Certain thingsthat you do to that probably will never
change. I never locked my doorbefore. I never had any fear,
you know, in the town thatI live in, no matter what time
of day or where I was,I've never felt unsafe, and I think
(54:29):
I'm lucky that I had that Ihad that. I don't know if I
didn't have that where I would havebeen far ahead of the game. Yeah,
it's funny. I there's this feelingof not wanting to burden people,
yes, exactly, and that younever feel like you are your entire your
(54:50):
self with people you don't That's that'sexactly, that's well port, that's how
I feel. How do I meanyou're having a bad day. It's hard
to explain, you know, orsomething arises, what do you see?
It's what do you say? It'snot something that just it's an easy explanation,
and I don't know. So it'syeah, I do. I feel.
(55:12):
I've never been socially awkward before,and I've always really connected to my
friends. Whatever I do, Ifeel, I feel a little bit removed
now after this. I feel alittle bit on the outside. Yellows with
(55:39):
fotits, gomma new red fit,the jacket, all these poses, that's
beautiful poses makes a boy feel likepicking up roses. There's never and such
(56:00):
scrap mad ors, comparing on newbrand name black sunglasses. All these close
it's such beautiful closes, snakes,city bars. I feel as pretty as
princess. The green tom nopos conductin and the city streets of wundress sc
(56:30):
seeing all these poses or how weblame. Life is a game and you
love is a trophy. World.My head about it, baby, same
(57:01):
worldch my head about it, Myhead about on on on. We climbed
(57:32):
amongst these packs of reasons for thesmoke, the days away to the evenings.
All these poses of classical torture ruinedmy mind like a snake in the
orchard. I did go from wantingto be someone now drunken wa flip flaps
(58:04):
on Fifth Avenue. Once you fundfrom classical virtue. Episode A Little Way
up the Green Nets, clut Citystreetreus facing these closes now boys, Ma
(58:34):
man agrees with that is. Thisepisode was written, researched, edited and
produced by me Josh Hallmark. Theepisode featured Albert Perkins. Resources included Fox
thirteen, Tampa Bay, The TampaBay Times, and the Netflix documentary Victim
Suspect. This episode was made possibleby the following Patreon producers, Adrian I
(58:59):
Yellow and Emelia Hancock, Amy Baseland at El, Benjamin Choppapong, Casey
Jensen Richardson, Dana Keith, DrewVipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Ali Hodzik,
Julian Natale, John O'Leary, Kendall, C. Kimberly, kay Lauren
F Lindsay, Curtis Lindley, tuscoffManolas Bulicus, Nicole and Dennis Henry,
Sarah King, s C. ShelleyBrewer, Tuesday Woodworth, The zach Ignatowitz,
Warren, Ashley Harris, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor,
(59:22):
Carly McNutt, Lana Sarah Ce,Shawna Harden and Lydia Fiedler. Thank you
to True Crime Bullshit's newest Patreon supporters, Case ravel E, M B Kiran
L Aubrey, M, Misseri,s Kayla, Michelle B Cox, Cameron,
DP, christ Bill, J,Jessica O, Chip, Teresa,
Jenny, A, Anna, KatherineC, Deja, j Emily M,
Georgina V and Amanda. To supportthe investigation, go to Patreon, dot
(59:45):
com, slash Studio both And.This episode included music by circles Field,
Ya Haskel Res and Ahimsa, withfeatured music by Rufus Wainwright. A baby
Say what what's my head about?My head about on no no, on,
(01:00:24):
no no no cut
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