May 1, 2025 • 37 mins
Steven Lorenzo's residential history leads Josh to Fort Lauderdale, where three gay men disappeared from the same apartment building sixteen years apart. Updates in one of those cases seem to make Lorenzo a very strong suspect. But where was Scott Schweickert, and is it possible the pair continued killing following the murders of Jason Galehouse and Michael Wachholtz? Plus, two other Florida serial killers targeting gay men complicate the investigation.
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Resources:
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by: Yehezkel Raz, Stanley Gurvich, and Benjamin Esterlis
Featured music by: Choir Boy
Patreon Producers: Amy Basil, Dale Akstin, Kendall C, Amelia Hancock, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton Whedon, Jen J, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Manolis Bouloukos, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Pink, Robin Wolfe, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesday Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Bethany Heintz, Carrie, Emily Paine, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Kathy Nation, Megan Inman, Rene LaPlante, Sabrina Abbot, Spooky, Tori Myers
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Resources:
- Florida State University
- NAMUS
- The Charley Project
- American Addiction Centers
- Pink News
- AmFar
- The National Library of Medicine
- The Florida Department of Corrections
- News-Press.com
- Charlotte County Sheriff's Office
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by: Yehezkel Raz, Stanley Gurvich, and Benjamin Esterlis
Featured music by: Choir Boy
Patreon Producers: Amy Basil, Dale Akstin, Kendall C, Amelia Hancock, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton Whedon, Jen J, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Manolis Bouloukos, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Pink, Robin Wolfe, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesday Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Bethany Heintz, Carrie, Emily Paine, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Kathy Nation, Megan Inman, Rene LaPlante, Sabrina Abbot, Spooky, Tori Myers
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is a studio both and production. By the time
that Scott Schweikert arrived in Orlando, Florida in two thousand
and three, he and Stephen Lorenzo had home bases covering
most of central and South Florida, mainly in three gay
(00:32):
hotspots across the state, Tampa, Orlando, and Fort Lauderdale. Lorenzo
owned his home on Powaton Street in Tampa. Scott was
renting an apartment in Orlando, and Lorenzo was renting what
he referred to as his beach Condo, a rental apartment
in Fort Lauderdale, approximately one mile from the beach. And
(00:56):
Lorenzo had purchased and owned, for an undetermined amount of
time time a plot of land between Dinner Lake and
Lake Jackson in Seabring, Florida, a small town almost dead
center between Tampa, Orlando and Fort Lauderdale. Now, I think
when looking into and evaluating the potential Florida twenty five victims,
(01:19):
it's important to start in Fort Lauderdale. As we know,
Stephen Lorenzo had little concern about trolling for victims in
his own backyard. Both Jason Galehouse and Michael Walcoltz were
picked up at Metropolis, the gay bar that Lorenzo frequented
the most. Additionally, he lured multiple men from online chats
to his home, where he then proceeded to drug and
(01:42):
rape them. At minimum, for a man who believes himself
to be a genius, he made very little effort to
conceal his crimes, and the fact that those brazen crimes
went on for so long literal decades speaks volumes about
local law enforcements, interest and solving them. But going back
(02:03):
to Fort Lauderdale, we should begin with three gay men
who went missing within feet of Lorenzo's apartment. Now, we
don't know exactly when Stephen Lorenzo began renting his Fort
Lauderdale apartment nor when he left it. It does seem
(02:26):
as though he was still renting it upon his arrest,
based on references in the police files and our background reports. Additionally,
there are references to it in interviews going as far
back as the late eighties. Some background reports have indicated
that Lorenzo lived in the apartment in nineteen eighty eight,
although we have not received actual proof of this. Nineteen
(02:50):
eighty eight is important, though, because, as you may recall
from our initial coverage, in season one, two gay men
disappeared from the Drake Towers apartments, which are less than
five hundred feet from Lorenzo's apartment. That same year, on
June twenty second of nineteen eighty eight, room mates Berry
(03:10):
Block and David Roads disappeared from their apartment building. At
the time, Barry Block was twenty four years old, five
foot nine and weighed about a hundred sixty pounds. He
had brown hair and blue eyes. David was also twenty
four He stood five foot eight and weighed approximately one
hundred fifty pounds, and he also had brown hair and
(03:34):
blue eyes. Unfortunately, very little is known about the par's disappearance,
including when they were last seen, who they were in
contact with that day, or even specifics about their lives.
What we do know is that Barry and David co
owned a boat with a third unnamed person, and that
boat was docked at a boat yard near the seventeenth
(03:55):
Street Causeway, approximately one mile from their apartment. According to
NamUs and the Charlie Project, all that appeared to be
missing from their apartment was Mark's cell phone and briefcase. Additionally,
there have been unsubstantiated rumors that the pair may have
been involved in drug use and were possibly helping out
(04:15):
an acquaintance by moving or holding drug money for them.
There is some speculation that the guys left the apartment
of their own volition and only intended to be gone
for a short while, based on the fact that they
left their air conditioner running. It feels a little too
on the nose to be moving drug money with a briefcase,
(04:37):
but it was the eighties. However, for both of them
to disappear together with that briefcase may lend credence to
any rumors about drugs, and while that may seem the
most obvious conclusion, you also have to consider they were
two young gay men living across the street from a
gay serial rapist involved in ne drugs who would later
(05:01):
be convicted of two murders, who also bragged about committing
other homicides. So I'm not sure where Auckham's razor leads
us on the disappearances of Barry and David, but it
is strange that sixteen years later, almost to the date
wh Lorenzo still had that apartment across the street, that
(05:24):
another gay man would disappear from that same apartment building
almost exactly sixteen years after David Rhodes and Barry Block disappeared.
On June twenty seven of two thousand, four, thirty five
year old Mark Douglas Jackson disappeared from his apartment in
(05:45):
the Drake Towers apartment building sometime between four fifteen am
and eleven am. As we discussed last season, Mark and
his boyfriend John went dancing at the Coliseum, a gay
nightclub in Hollywood, Florida, late on the evening before his disappearance.
The pair returned to their Fort Lauderdale apartment at Drake
(06:06):
Towers at four fifteen am. According to both John and
surveillance obtained thy investigators, and since our original reporting, we
have some new information. John told the Fort Lauderdale Police
Department that when he went to bed at around five am,
Mark was still up, but when he awoke the following
morning at around eleven the apartment's lights and television were
(06:29):
still on, but Mark was gone. And when police searched
the apartment, they found most of Mark's belongings, his house keys,
his brand new BMW, his access card to the apartment building,
and his cell phone. The only items of Mars they
could not find were his wallet and passport. So if
(06:50):
Mark left the apartment of his own volition. He either
planned on walking or getting a ride to wherever he
was going. Additionally, police he found a plate and two
spoons with crystal meth residue on them, and fourteen vials
containing GHB and crystal meth residue. And now would be
(07:10):
a very good time to pause and talk about the
role of drugs in the gay scene in the nineties
and early aughts. Let's start with Mark's life outside of
that apartment in the gay scene that he participated in,
because it's very easy to let drug use and possession
(07:32):
paint a broad picture of who someone is and how
they contribute to society. Mark was a very successful marketing executive.
He had an engineering degree and a master's in business administration.
He was described as driven and goal oriented. He worked
out a lot, focused on staying fit and managing his health.
(07:55):
Prior to his disappearance, he'd both purchased a new BMW
and investor in real estate. Mark was anything but the
caricature of some gay club kid. As we discussed last season,
drug use in the gay community became rampant following the
HIV AIDS crisis. According to a study in the National
(08:17):
Library of Medicine titled Substance Use in Lesbian, gay and
Bisexual Populations An Update on empirical research and Implications for treatment.
The two most commonly cited risk factors for elevated substance
use in the population are the importance of the bar
scene in lgb communities and sexual minority stress. And in
(08:40):
many ways, that is just the snake eating its own
tail because a report by the American Addiction Centers titled
Substance Misuse in the LGBTQ Plus Community sites discrimination, social stigma,
and internalized homophobia as the main factors for substance abuse
within the gay Camus community and increased substance abuse in
(09:02):
the gay community over a period of time between nineteen
eighty and two thy ten. In short, drugs and alcohol
are a huge part of the LGBTQ community because of
trauma against the LGBTQ community, which then leads to drug
and alcohol abuse trauma within the LGBTQ plus community. The
(09:24):
same study highlighted areas with the highest rates of substance
abuse amongst the LGBTQ community, which coincide directly with areas
that were least accepting of homosexuality among them Tampa, Florida.
The demonization of the gay community peaked in the nineteen
(09:45):
nineties as gay men across the country watched Reagan's White
House completely ignore the HIV AIDS epidemic, which by the
end of his presidency had killed more than sixty one
thousand gay men in the US alone. The lack of response, consideration,
or even mention of the HIV AIDS epidemic painted a
(10:06):
clear picture to the American people what the United States
of America thought of gay men. In the eighties and nineties,
the public, the church, the government, and AIDS taught gay
men their perceived value. In the nineties and early aughts,
the public, the church, the government, and anti LGBTQ laws,
(10:27):
many endorsed by the Catholic and Mormon churches, who by
the way, are tax exempt organizations because of their separation
from politics, taught gay men their perceived value, and as
time went on, we further marginalized gay men by stereotyping
them as drug addicts, alcoholics, and perverts. The Satanists of
(10:50):
the nineties had become the fagots of the oughts. This
is all to say that drug use in the guar
is a response to treatment of gay people over decades,
so viewing someone solely as a drug user or addict
overlooks the many societal factors and trauma that led to
(11:12):
that gay person doing drugs in the first place, which
brings us back to casual drug use in the LGBTQ community.
I was in my twenties in the early odds and
at gay bars and parties people offered you GHB, crystal, meth,
(11:34):
and ecstasy with the same casualness that they might offer
you a beer. And admittedly I partook in all of
those drugs at least once. But and because the people
offering you those drugs were more often than not successful, respected,
thriving members of society. There were tech company vps doing
(11:58):
meth on the weekends and then thriving during the week
and by the early twenty tens, most of them had
moved on from these hard drugs. A lot of that
does have to do with age, but most of it
has to do with the time and place the gay community.
Immediately following the AIDS epidemic, As the demonization of gay
(12:21):
people slowly faded with more understanding, tolerance and acceptance of
gay people, the gay community's reliance on drugs and alcohol
abuse writ large slowly waned, although multiple reports site that
drug and alcohol abuse within the gay community is still
greater than the average white straight community. I bring this
(12:45):
all up because throughout this show, we will be talking
a lot about drug use. We'll be talking about street
hustlers and addicts, and there is a natural, or even
taught inclination to minimize these people to the drugs they
were doing or the circumstances they were in. I've known
more than a dozen young gay guys who ended up
(13:05):
on the street hustling for drugs, and all of their
stories are pretty much the same. They came out of
the closet to their parents at a young age and
got kicked out or cut off. They weren't financially in
a position to find a place, so they started CouchSurfing
with people who had not rejected them over their homosexuality,
(13:25):
mostly gay men. Sometimes those gay men were older, and
sometimes those gay men were predatory. The couchsurfers then casually
got off for drugs, and they weren't in a position
to balance the drug use with a thriving life, and
succumbed to drug addiction. They ran out of couches to
surf on, couldn't hold down any jobs, and eventually ended
(13:47):
up on the streets doing whatever they could to get
to the next day. Like I said, even the trauma
itself is a snake that eats its own tail. So yes,
Mark did drugs, but he was also a successful member
of society who had hopes and dreams that he was
(14:08):
actively pursuing and achieving. Following Mark's disappearance, none of his
credit nor debit cards were ever used. However, some one
did check his voice mail messages at eight forty a m.
On the day that he disappeared, four hours after he
was last seen. It's also important to note that Mark
(14:29):
was suffering from insomnia at the time of his disappearance
and was on sleep meds. But what's most important and
frustrating in Mark's disappearance is that Mark had left a
note for John on the morning that he disappeared. However,
the note's contents nor tone have never been released or
made clear by the police. Now, according to the Fort
(14:53):
Lauderdale Police Department, Mark's disappearance is still an active case,
which to me at least put with some doubt on
the note indicating suicide. Also, by all accounts, Mark's life
was going well. He was investing in his future literally
and figuratively. There was no indication that Mark was suicidal
(15:15):
or involved in self harm. But if Mark was suffering
from insomnia and John had gone to bed already and
Mark maybe wanted to party some more, well, there was
a gay guy just five hundred feet away who seemed
to always have GHB on hand. So where was Stephen
(15:43):
Lorenzo when Mark Jackson went missing? And what was Scott
Schweikert's relationship with Lorenzo and the Fort Lauderdale area at
the time. As best we can tell, Stephen was around
unbeknownst to him. He was under investigation in the months
following the disappearance of Jason Galehouse and the murder of
(16:07):
Michael Wocolp's the same months which preceded the disappearance of
Mark Jackson. Eye witnesses in both the local and state
investigations place Lorenzo in and around Tampa, namely at his
home on Powett and Ave and at gay clubs like
Metropolis and twenty six o six, but some witnesses also
(16:29):
place him in Fort Lauderdale, in Orlando, and in clear Water.
Lorenzo's online conversations with Scott. Schweikert also referenced trips to
Atlanta and Orlando. However, we can't place Lorenzo or Schweikert
anywhere on the morning of or the evening prior to
Mark's disappearance, and in looking into Scott, we learned that
(16:56):
he too had connections to Fort Lauderdale, albeit much looser connections.
An August two thousand and five interview with a friend
of Scott's indicated that he'd spent some time in Fort
Lauderdale prior to his move to Florida and then since.
Schweikert's friend, David was living in Fort Lauderdale when he
(17:16):
met Scott in an online chat room in either two
thousand or two thousand one. After chatting for a few months,
the pair decided to meet in person in Chicago, where
Scott was living at the time. David flew up for
a few days and stayed with Scott during the Chicago
Pride Festival. During this time, the pair had a sexual relationship.
(17:38):
In late two thousand and two, Scott flew to Florida
and stayed with David for four to five days at
his home in Fort Lauderdale. While there, the pair visited
Boca Ratone and spent time at the beach, and while
David claims this second trip wasn't sexual like the first,
he admitted that the two were fast friends and got
along well and around the time that Scott moved to
(18:02):
Orlando in late two thousand and three. A year later,
he made the three hour drive back to Fort Lauderdale
to hang out with David again, but this time, David
reported that Scott had someone with him. David said he
thought the guy was homeless or as street hustler. He
(18:23):
described him as being a white male in his twenties
with a thin build, ruddy complexion, and having sandy blonde hair.
He couldn't recall Scott ever formally introducing the guy to him.
He couldn't remember his name and wasn't sure he ever
knew it, and following the visit, he never saw nor
heard about this guy again. It's this same visit where
(18:47):
David noticed that Scott's red Honda Civic had changed, and
Scott reportedly told him that he had to have the
engine and some of the interiors replaced after he drove
the car into a canal. This was just one to
two months before Scott and Stephen Lorenzo would kidnap, torture, rape,
and kill Jason Galehouse and Michael Wacholts. As best we
(19:09):
can tell, it's between the first and second time that
Scott claims he and Stephen met in person. And while
Stephen's reputation preceded him in Florida, and we talk a
lot about his crimes prior to meeting Scott, it's also
important to remind you that five years before this, five
years before they allegedly met in person for the first time, Scott,
(19:32):
on his own, kidnapped a college student, pistol whipped him,
threatened him with a gun, and that incident didn't escalate
only because that student got away. Both of these men,
independent of one another, were violent kidnappers, potentially more. The
(19:55):
most eery thing about this trip to Fort Lauderdale with
this unknown hustler is that it coincided with aol chats
Scott was having with Stephen Lorenzo about drugging street kids
and hustlers, potentially selling them into snuff films, injecting them
with HIV, and in Scott's exact words, get him good
(20:17):
and drunk and drugged. Just need to be sure he
has not told anyone he has gone or that he
is visiting me, and then easy to make them vanish
with no link to us in the least. And while
Scott would claim that, following the murderer and dismemberment of
(20:39):
Jason Galehouse, that he rarely communicated with Lorenzo, whom he
was disgusted by and feared, Lorenzo and Schweikert continued I
am ing at great length with great specificity about abducting, torturing, raping,
and murdering other men. These conversations, which are consistent across
(21:02):
chats in June, July, August, and September of two thousand
and four, were included in the criminal complaint against Scott Schweikert.
These chats indicate to me at least that the murders
of Wacholtz and Gehouse were not the end of Lorenzo
and Schweikert's crimes, but merely the beginning. Mark Jackson, Barry Block,
(21:47):
David Rhodes, Bobby Grossman, and Edward Bruyette are just five
of the twenty five Florida area missing and murdered men
who could potentially be linked to Stephen Lorenzo and Scott Schwicker,
and as we continue to explore each of those cases,
you'll quickly learn that there are some big problems in
(22:08):
investigating many of them. In most cases, there are very
few details available, perhaps because of time passed, the circumstances
of the men's lives, lack of interest, or any combination
of the three. It's also hard to pin down Lorenzo
and Schweikert. In most cases, we only have a general
(22:29):
sense of where they could be based on where they
might have been living at any given time and what
they were talking about together or with others in their
online chats. This is further complicated by the fact that
Lorenzo was self employed and Scott was routinely unemployed. They
weren't really accountable to anyone. The other element that makes
(22:53):
these twenty five cases challenging is that Lorenzo and Schweikert
weren't the only killers targeting gay men and men on
the periphery in Florida at that time. Gary Ray Boles
and Daniel Conahan, among others will get into later, were
(23:14):
killers who targeted gay men and hustlers between the early
nineties and oughts who each lived and operated in Florida.
Gary Ray Boles was a sex worker who worked with
men but identified as strait. He murdered at least six
men in Florida, Georgia, and Maryland in nineteen ninety four.
(23:37):
Bulls would be hired as a sex worker by older
gay men, then he would rob, beat, and strangle them.
Gary Bulls was arrested in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, in November
of nineteen ninety four, and he would eventually confess to
killing six men. John Hardy Roberts of Daytona Beach, Florida,
(23:58):
David Alan Jarmin of Wheaton, Maryland, Milton Joseph Bradley of Savannah, Georgia,
Alverson Carter Junior of Atlanta, Georgia, Albert Morris of Hilliard, Florida,
and Walter J. Hinton of Jacksonville Beach, Florida. Bulls told
police that he targeted gay men because he blamed them
(24:19):
for his ex girlfriend's abortion, which she told Bulls was
due in large part to his sex work. It's unclear
if those are Bulls' only victims and how far south
he traveled and operated in Florida. Daniel Conahan was only
(24:42):
ever convicted of killing one man, but is believed to
have killed at least fourteen men between nineteen ninety three
and nineteen ninety six. Conahan, who was born in nineteen
fifty four in Charlotte, North Carolina, came out to his
parents when he was a teenager in the US early seventies.
They told him that he was diseased, and they forced
(25:04):
him to see multiple psychiatrists in hopes they could cure him.
Conahan would describe his parent's response to and behavior around
his homosexuality as abusive and traumatizing. When Conahan was twenty
three in nineteen seventy seven, he joined the US Navy.
A year later, he was court martialed for having gay
(25:27):
sex with fellow naval officers, and not long after that
he was discharged when he got into a fight with
an officer who declined Conahan's sexual advances. Conahan spent the
following decade in Chicago, and then moved to Punta Gorda,
a suburb of Fort Myers, Florida, in nineteen ninety three,
(25:48):
where he became a licensed practical nurse, graduating at the
top of his class. And it's here that authorities believe
his murders began. In May of nineteen ninety six, police
began investigating Conahan for the murder of Richard Allen Montgomery,
(26:09):
a twenty one year old man who had disappeared from
the Port Charlotte area of Florida on April sixteenth of
that same year. Richard's body was found a day later
in the woods northwest of the Charlotte County Fairgrounds. He
had been raped, murdered, and mutilated. Nearby, they found a
skull and a second body, later identified as twenty five
(26:30):
year old Kenneth Lee Smith. But Montgomery and Smith would
be the fourth and fifth bodies of murdered men discovered
in the woods surrounding Sarasota and Charlotte Counties, and in
nineteen ninety seven and two thousand they would find two more.
These killings would become known as the hog Trail killings,
(26:51):
named because all six men were found on or near
wild boar trails in the woods. The investigation into Conahan
began when a man named Stanley Burden reported to police
that Conahan had hired him to pose for nude and
bondage style photos in the woods and then tied him
to a tree attempted to rape him and then tried
(27:15):
to strangle him for more than thirty minutes before giving
up and leaving Burden naked and alone in the woods.
Stanley was able to free himself from the rope and
immediately reported the incident to police. Through credit card transactions
and evidence seized from Conahan's house, police linked him to
both the attack on Stanley Burden and the murder of
(27:37):
Richard Allan Montgomery, the only murder that Conahan has ever
been convicted of, but he is believed to be responsible
for all six Hog Trail murders Sarasota County John Doe,
William John Melagno, Kenneth Lee Smith, Richard Allan Montgomery, William
Charles Patten, and Charlotte County John Doe. The men identified
(28:02):
were known to be drifters, drug users, down on their luck,
gay men, or sex workers, and Conahan would tell detectives
that following his move to Punta Gorda, he quickly learned
that there were a lot of hitchhikers and drifters along
US Route forty one between Northport and Fort Myers who
would do anything to make a quick buck. In March
(28:27):
of two thousand seven, hunters discovered the skeletal remains of
eight men in the woods outside of Fort Myers, Florida.
Forensic examiners were able to determine that all eight men
had been victims of homicide, and due to the fact
that the bodies were found within one mile of where
Conahan assaulted and tried to kill Stanley Burden, police began
and continue to try to link Conahan to these eight murders,
(28:51):
John Blevins, Eric David Koehler, Jonathan James, to Hay, Robert
Ronald Soden, and unidentified victims A, A, B, F, and G.
All four of the identified men were local to or
went missing in the area. To Hay and Blevins were
both trying to make some quick money when they were
(29:12):
last heard from. Much like most of the Hog Trail victims,
due to decomposition, forensic examiners weren't able to determine whether
any of the Fort Myers eight had been sexually assaulted
or mutilated. Most of the Hog Trail victims had mutilated genitals.
Conahan would blame the trauma he endured for being gay,
(29:34):
first from his parents and then from the Navy for
his crimes. Many of these fourteen men were never even
reported missing. They were gay, They were drifters, they were hustlers,
they were attics, alienated, discarded men looking for a way
to get by, be loved, be made whole. They were
(29:57):
lost to the world, which is what makes investigating Lorenzo
and Schweikert and other killers of gay and marginalized men
so tricky. They were actively targeting people no one would
miss or care about, and they knew that because in
many ways they were those same people. The snake eating
(30:20):
its own tail.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
He has a constan she happened banish DC pass So.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
This episode was written, research, edited, and produced by me
Josh Hallmark Resources and included Florida State University, Nameless, the
Charlie Project, American Addiction Centers, Pink News, AMPHAR, BBC, the
National Library of Medicine, and the Florida Department of Corrections.
This episode was made possible by the following Patreon producers,
(32:15):
Amy Basel, Dale, Axton Kendall, c Amelia Hancock and at
l Ash Fish, Becky c Benjamin Choppathon Casey Jensen, Richardson,
Christina Sassoon, Cory Deeley, Drew Ipond, Heather Horton, Whedon, gen
j Gillian Natale, Kathleen's Studter Lna Holiday, Lauren f Lydia Rodarte,
Quayle Manolas Bullacus, Nicole and Dennis, Henry, Pink, Robin Wolfe,
(32:35):
s C. Shelley Brewer, Sherry D, Trista, zach Ignottowitz, Warren,
Bethany Heins, Carrie, Emily Payne, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor,
Kate Leuser, Kathy Nation, Megan Inman, Rene Laplont, Sabrina Abbott,
Spooky and Tory Myers. Thank you to Studio both Anne's
newest Patreon supporters, Tory M, Megan I, Sabrina A, Kate, L,
(32:55):
Kerry D, Kathy, n Ashley, K, Janet h, Alyssa M,
Sarah H, Melissa M, jess K, Jennifer A, meg H,
Tory Y, Chris S, Dorothy C, Colleen L, Liz Momo, Mio,
Bonnie C, Rebecca Windsurfs, Jennifer S, Sue s Allison, M,
Michelle W, Marlyn L, Nikki, T, Jacob, C, Ryan H
and so Sue. To support the investigation and all of
(33:17):
Studio both An's shows, go to Patreon dot com, slash
Studio both and supporters get ad Free and early episodes,
among many other perks. This episode included music by Jahes
cal Rez, Stanley Gervich, and Benjamin Esterless, with featured music
by choir Boy.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
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(34:46):
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Speaker 2 (35:04):
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Speaker 1 (35:30):
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That's my boy. That's it's so cat stop so Sue
(36:01):
song snop song.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
The S S S.
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Snop so.
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S S song.
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Cat sa something.
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Ca sa se song the
This is a studio both and production. By the time
that Scott Schweikert arrived in Orlando, Florida in two thousand
and three, he and Stephen Lorenzo had home bases covering
most of central and South Florida, mainly in three gay
(00:32):
hotspots across the state, Tampa, Orlando, and Fort Lauderdale. Lorenzo
owned his home on Powaton Street in Tampa. Scott was
renting an apartment in Orlando, and Lorenzo was renting what
he referred to as his beach Condo, a rental apartment
in Fort Lauderdale, approximately one mile from the beach. And
(00:56):
Lorenzo had purchased and owned, for an undetermined amount of
time time a plot of land between Dinner Lake and
Lake Jackson in Seabring, Florida, a small town almost dead
center between Tampa, Orlando and Fort Lauderdale. Now, I think
when looking into and evaluating the potential Florida twenty five victims,
(01:19):
it's important to start in Fort Lauderdale. As we know,
Stephen Lorenzo had little concern about trolling for victims in
his own backyard. Both Jason Galehouse and Michael Walcoltz were
picked up at Metropolis, the gay bar that Lorenzo frequented
the most. Additionally, he lured multiple men from online chats
to his home, where he then proceeded to drug and
(01:42):
rape them. At minimum, for a man who believes himself
to be a genius, he made very little effort to
conceal his crimes, and the fact that those brazen crimes
went on for so long literal decades speaks volumes about
local law enforcements, interest and solving them. But going back
(02:03):
to Fort Lauderdale, we should begin with three gay men
who went missing within feet of Lorenzo's apartment. Now, we
don't know exactly when Stephen Lorenzo began renting his Fort
Lauderdale apartment nor when he left it. It does seem
(02:26):
as though he was still renting it upon his arrest,
based on references in the police files and our background reports. Additionally,
there are references to it in interviews going as far
back as the late eighties. Some background reports have indicated
that Lorenzo lived in the apartment in nineteen eighty eight,
although we have not received actual proof of this. Nineteen
(02:50):
eighty eight is important, though, because, as you may recall
from our initial coverage, in season one, two gay men
disappeared from the Drake Towers apartments, which are less than
five hundred feet from Lorenzo's apartment. That same year, on
June twenty second of nineteen eighty eight, room mates Berry
(03:10):
Block and David Roads disappeared from their apartment building. At
the time, Barry Block was twenty four years old, five
foot nine and weighed about a hundred sixty pounds. He
had brown hair and blue eyes. David was also twenty
four He stood five foot eight and weighed approximately one
hundred fifty pounds, and he also had brown hair and
(03:34):
blue eyes. Unfortunately, very little is known about the par's disappearance,
including when they were last seen, who they were in
contact with that day, or even specifics about their lives.
What we do know is that Barry and David co
owned a boat with a third unnamed person, and that
boat was docked at a boat yard near the seventeenth
(03:55):
Street Causeway, approximately one mile from their apartment. According to
NamUs and the Charlie Project, all that appeared to be
missing from their apartment was Mark's cell phone and briefcase. Additionally,
there have been unsubstantiated rumors that the pair may have
been involved in drug use and were possibly helping out
(04:15):
an acquaintance by moving or holding drug money for them.
There is some speculation that the guys left the apartment
of their own volition and only intended to be gone
for a short while, based on the fact that they
left their air conditioner running. It feels a little too
on the nose to be moving drug money with a briefcase,
(04:37):
but it was the eighties. However, for both of them
to disappear together with that briefcase may lend credence to
any rumors about drugs, and while that may seem the
most obvious conclusion, you also have to consider they were
two young gay men living across the street from a
gay serial rapist involved in ne drugs who would later
(05:01):
be convicted of two murders, who also bragged about committing
other homicides. So I'm not sure where Auckham's razor leads
us on the disappearances of Barry and David, but it
is strange that sixteen years later, almost to the date
wh Lorenzo still had that apartment across the street, that
(05:24):
another gay man would disappear from that same apartment building
almost exactly sixteen years after David Rhodes and Barry Block disappeared.
On June twenty seven of two thousand, four, thirty five
year old Mark Douglas Jackson disappeared from his apartment in
(05:45):
the Drake Towers apartment building sometime between four fifteen am
and eleven am. As we discussed last season, Mark and
his boyfriend John went dancing at the Coliseum, a gay
nightclub in Hollywood, Florida, late on the evening before his disappearance.
The pair returned to their Fort Lauderdale apartment at Drake
(06:06):
Towers at four fifteen am. According to both John and
surveillance obtained thy investigators, and since our original reporting, we
have some new information. John told the Fort Lauderdale Police
Department that when he went to bed at around five am,
Mark was still up, but when he awoke the following
morning at around eleven the apartment's lights and television were
(06:29):
still on, but Mark was gone. And when police searched
the apartment, they found most of Mark's belongings, his house keys,
his brand new BMW, his access card to the apartment building,
and his cell phone. The only items of Mars they
could not find were his wallet and passport. So if
(06:50):
Mark left the apartment of his own volition. He either
planned on walking or getting a ride to wherever he
was going. Additionally, police he found a plate and two
spoons with crystal meth residue on them, and fourteen vials
containing GHB and crystal meth residue. And now would be
(07:10):
a very good time to pause and talk about the
role of drugs in the gay scene in the nineties
and early aughts. Let's start with Mark's life outside of
that apartment in the gay scene that he participated in,
because it's very easy to let drug use and possession
(07:32):
paint a broad picture of who someone is and how
they contribute to society. Mark was a very successful marketing executive.
He had an engineering degree and a master's in business administration.
He was described as driven and goal oriented. He worked
out a lot, focused on staying fit and managing his health.
(07:55):
Prior to his disappearance, he'd both purchased a new BMW
and investor in real estate. Mark was anything but the
caricature of some gay club kid. As we discussed last season,
drug use in the gay community became rampant following the
HIV AIDS crisis. According to a study in the National
(08:17):
Library of Medicine titled Substance Use in Lesbian, gay and
Bisexual Populations An Update on empirical research and Implications for treatment.
The two most commonly cited risk factors for elevated substance
use in the population are the importance of the bar
scene in lgb communities and sexual minority stress. And in
(08:40):
many ways, that is just the snake eating its own
tail because a report by the American Addiction Centers titled
Substance Misuse in the LGBTQ Plus Community sites discrimination, social stigma,
and internalized homophobia as the main factors for substance abuse
within the gay Camus community and increased substance abuse in
(09:02):
the gay community over a period of time between nineteen
eighty and two thy ten. In short, drugs and alcohol
are a huge part of the LGBTQ community because of
trauma against the LGBTQ community, which then leads to drug
and alcohol abuse trauma within the LGBTQ plus community. The
(09:24):
same study highlighted areas with the highest rates of substance
abuse amongst the LGBTQ community, which coincide directly with areas
that were least accepting of homosexuality among them Tampa, Florida.
The demonization of the gay community peaked in the nineteen
(09:45):
nineties as gay men across the country watched Reagan's White
House completely ignore the HIV AIDS epidemic, which by the
end of his presidency had killed more than sixty one
thousand gay men in the US alone. The lack of response, consideration,
or even mention of the HIV AIDS epidemic painted a
(10:06):
clear picture to the American people what the United States
of America thought of gay men. In the eighties and nineties,
the public, the church, the government, and AIDS taught gay
men their perceived value. In the nineties and early aughts,
the public, the church, the government, and anti LGBTQ laws,
(10:27):
many endorsed by the Catholic and Mormon churches, who by
the way, are tax exempt organizations because of their separation
from politics, taught gay men their perceived value, and as
time went on, we further marginalized gay men by stereotyping
them as drug addicts, alcoholics, and perverts. The Satanists of
(10:50):
the nineties had become the fagots of the oughts. This
is all to say that drug use in the guar
is a response to treatment of gay people over decades,
so viewing someone solely as a drug user or addict
overlooks the many societal factors and trauma that led to
(11:12):
that gay person doing drugs in the first place, which
brings us back to casual drug use in the LGBTQ community.
I was in my twenties in the early odds and
at gay bars and parties people offered you GHB, crystal, meth,
(11:34):
and ecstasy with the same casualness that they might offer
you a beer. And admittedly I partook in all of
those drugs at least once. But and because the people
offering you those drugs were more often than not successful, respected,
thriving members of society. There were tech company vps doing
(11:58):
meth on the weekends and then thriving during the week
and by the early twenty tens, most of them had
moved on from these hard drugs. A lot of that
does have to do with age, but most of it
has to do with the time and place the gay community.
Immediately following the AIDS epidemic, As the demonization of gay
(12:21):
people slowly faded with more understanding, tolerance and acceptance of
gay people, the gay community's reliance on drugs and alcohol
abuse writ large slowly waned, although multiple reports site that
drug and alcohol abuse within the gay community is still
greater than the average white straight community. I bring this
(12:45):
all up because throughout this show, we will be talking
a lot about drug use. We'll be talking about street
hustlers and addicts, and there is a natural, or even
taught inclination to minimize these people to the drugs they
were doing or the circumstances they were in. I've known
more than a dozen young gay guys who ended up
(13:05):
on the street hustling for drugs, and all of their
stories are pretty much the same. They came out of
the closet to their parents at a young age and
got kicked out or cut off. They weren't financially in
a position to find a place, so they started CouchSurfing
with people who had not rejected them over their homosexuality,
(13:25):
mostly gay men. Sometimes those gay men were older, and
sometimes those gay men were predatory. The couchsurfers then casually
got off for drugs, and they weren't in a position
to balance the drug use with a thriving life, and
succumbed to drug addiction. They ran out of couches to
surf on, couldn't hold down any jobs, and eventually ended
(13:47):
up on the streets doing whatever they could to get
to the next day. Like I said, even the trauma
itself is a snake that eats its own tail. So yes,
Mark did drugs, but he was also a successful member
of society who had hopes and dreams that he was
(14:08):
actively pursuing and achieving. Following Mark's disappearance, none of his
credit nor debit cards were ever used. However, some one
did check his voice mail messages at eight forty a m.
On the day that he disappeared, four hours after he
was last seen. It's also important to note that Mark
(14:29):
was suffering from insomnia at the time of his disappearance
and was on sleep meds. But what's most important and
frustrating in Mark's disappearance is that Mark had left a
note for John on the morning that he disappeared. However,
the note's contents nor tone have never been released or
made clear by the police. Now, according to the Fort
(14:53):
Lauderdale Police Department, Mark's disappearance is still an active case,
which to me at least put with some doubt on
the note indicating suicide. Also, by all accounts, Mark's life
was going well. He was investing in his future literally
and figuratively. There was no indication that Mark was suicidal
(15:15):
or involved in self harm. But if Mark was suffering
from insomnia and John had gone to bed already and
Mark maybe wanted to party some more, well, there was
a gay guy just five hundred feet away who seemed
to always have GHB on hand. So where was Stephen
(15:43):
Lorenzo when Mark Jackson went missing? And what was Scott
Schweikert's relationship with Lorenzo and the Fort Lauderdale area at
the time. As best we can tell, Stephen was around
unbeknownst to him. He was under investigation in the months
following the disappearance of Jason Galehouse and the murder of
(16:07):
Michael Wocolp's the same months which preceded the disappearance of
Mark Jackson. Eye witnesses in both the local and state
investigations place Lorenzo in and around Tampa, namely at his
home on Powett and Ave and at gay clubs like
Metropolis and twenty six o six, but some witnesses also
(16:29):
place him in Fort Lauderdale, in Orlando, and in clear Water.
Lorenzo's online conversations with Scott. Schweikert also referenced trips to
Atlanta and Orlando. However, we can't place Lorenzo or Schweikert
anywhere on the morning of or the evening prior to
Mark's disappearance, and in looking into Scott, we learned that
(16:56):
he too had connections to Fort Lauderdale, albeit much looser connections.
An August two thousand and five interview with a friend
of Scott's indicated that he'd spent some time in Fort
Lauderdale prior to his move to Florida and then since.
Schweikert's friend, David was living in Fort Lauderdale when he
(17:16):
met Scott in an online chat room in either two
thousand or two thousand one. After chatting for a few months,
the pair decided to meet in person in Chicago, where
Scott was living at the time. David flew up for
a few days and stayed with Scott during the Chicago
Pride Festival. During this time, the pair had a sexual relationship.
(17:38):
In late two thousand and two, Scott flew to Florida
and stayed with David for four to five days at
his home in Fort Lauderdale. While there, the pair visited
Boca Ratone and spent time at the beach, and while
David claims this second trip wasn't sexual like the first,
he admitted that the two were fast friends and got
along well and around the time that Scott moved to
(18:02):
Orlando in late two thousand and three. A year later,
he made the three hour drive back to Fort Lauderdale
to hang out with David again, but this time, David
reported that Scott had someone with him. David said he
thought the guy was homeless or as street hustler. He
(18:23):
described him as being a white male in his twenties
with a thin build, ruddy complexion, and having sandy blonde hair.
He couldn't recall Scott ever formally introducing the guy to him.
He couldn't remember his name and wasn't sure he ever
knew it, and following the visit, he never saw nor
heard about this guy again. It's this same visit where
(18:47):
David noticed that Scott's red Honda Civic had changed, and
Scott reportedly told him that he had to have the
engine and some of the interiors replaced after he drove
the car into a canal. This was just one to
two months before Scott and Stephen Lorenzo would kidnap, torture, rape,
and kill Jason Galehouse and Michael Wacholts. As best we
(19:09):
can tell, it's between the first and second time that
Scott claims he and Stephen met in person. And while
Stephen's reputation preceded him in Florida, and we talk a
lot about his crimes prior to meeting Scott, it's also
important to remind you that five years before this, five
years before they allegedly met in person for the first time, Scott,
(19:32):
on his own, kidnapped a college student, pistol whipped him,
threatened him with a gun, and that incident didn't escalate
only because that student got away. Both of these men,
independent of one another, were violent kidnappers, potentially more. The
(19:55):
most eery thing about this trip to Fort Lauderdale with
this unknown hustler is that it coincided with aol chats
Scott was having with Stephen Lorenzo about drugging street kids
and hustlers, potentially selling them into snuff films, injecting them
with HIV, and in Scott's exact words, get him good
(20:17):
and drunk and drugged. Just need to be sure he
has not told anyone he has gone or that he
is visiting me, and then easy to make them vanish
with no link to us in the least. And while
Scott would claim that, following the murderer and dismemberment of
(20:39):
Jason Galehouse, that he rarely communicated with Lorenzo, whom he
was disgusted by and feared, Lorenzo and Schweikert continued I
am ing at great length with great specificity about abducting, torturing, raping,
and murdering other men. These conversations, which are consistent across
(21:02):
chats in June, July, August, and September of two thousand
and four, were included in the criminal complaint against Scott Schweikert.
These chats indicate to me at least that the murders
of Wacholtz and Gehouse were not the end of Lorenzo
and Schweikert's crimes, but merely the beginning. Mark Jackson, Barry Block,
(21:47):
David Rhodes, Bobby Grossman, and Edward Bruyette are just five
of the twenty five Florida area missing and murdered men
who could potentially be linked to Stephen Lorenzo and Scott Schwicker,
and as we continue to explore each of those cases,
you'll quickly learn that there are some big problems in
(22:08):
investigating many of them. In most cases, there are very
few details available, perhaps because of time passed, the circumstances
of the men's lives, lack of interest, or any combination
of the three. It's also hard to pin down Lorenzo
and Schweikert. In most cases, we only have a general
(22:29):
sense of where they could be based on where they
might have been living at any given time and what
they were talking about together or with others in their
online chats. This is further complicated by the fact that
Lorenzo was self employed and Scott was routinely unemployed. They
weren't really accountable to anyone. The other element that makes
(22:53):
these twenty five cases challenging is that Lorenzo and Schweikert
weren't the only killers targeting gay men and men on
the periphery in Florida at that time. Gary Ray Boles
and Daniel Conahan, among others will get into later, were
(23:14):
killers who targeted gay men and hustlers between the early
nineties and oughts who each lived and operated in Florida.
Gary Ray Boles was a sex worker who worked with
men but identified as strait. He murdered at least six
men in Florida, Georgia, and Maryland in nineteen ninety four.
(23:37):
Bulls would be hired as a sex worker by older
gay men, then he would rob, beat, and strangle them.
Gary Bulls was arrested in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, in November
of nineteen ninety four, and he would eventually confess to
killing six men. John Hardy Roberts of Daytona Beach, Florida,
(23:58):
David Alan Jarmin of Wheaton, Maryland, Milton Joseph Bradley of Savannah, Georgia,
Alverson Carter Junior of Atlanta, Georgia, Albert Morris of Hilliard, Florida,
and Walter J. Hinton of Jacksonville Beach, Florida. Bulls told
police that he targeted gay men because he blamed them
(24:19):
for his ex girlfriend's abortion, which she told Bulls was
due in large part to his sex work. It's unclear
if those are Bulls' only victims and how far south
he traveled and operated in Florida. Daniel Conahan was only
(24:42):
ever convicted of killing one man, but is believed to
have killed at least fourteen men between nineteen ninety three
and nineteen ninety six. Conahan, who was born in nineteen
fifty four in Charlotte, North Carolina, came out to his
parents when he was a teenager in the US early seventies.
They told him that he was diseased, and they forced
(25:04):
him to see multiple psychiatrists in hopes they could cure him.
Conahan would describe his parent's response to and behavior around
his homosexuality as abusive and traumatizing. When Conahan was twenty
three in nineteen seventy seven, he joined the US Navy.
A year later, he was court martialed for having gay
(25:27):
sex with fellow naval officers, and not long after that
he was discharged when he got into a fight with
an officer who declined Conahan's sexual advances. Conahan spent the
following decade in Chicago, and then moved to Punta Gorda,
a suburb of Fort Myers, Florida, in nineteen ninety three,
(25:48):
where he became a licensed practical nurse, graduating at the
top of his class. And it's here that authorities believe
his murders began. In May of nineteen ninety six, police
began investigating Conahan for the murder of Richard Allen Montgomery,
(26:09):
a twenty one year old man who had disappeared from
the Port Charlotte area of Florida on April sixteenth of
that same year. Richard's body was found a day later
in the woods northwest of the Charlotte County Fairgrounds. He
had been raped, murdered, and mutilated. Nearby, they found a
skull and a second body, later identified as twenty five
(26:30):
year old Kenneth Lee Smith. But Montgomery and Smith would
be the fourth and fifth bodies of murdered men discovered
in the woods surrounding Sarasota and Charlotte Counties, and in
nineteen ninety seven and two thousand they would find two more.
These killings would become known as the hog Trail killings,
(26:51):
named because all six men were found on or near
wild boar trails in the woods. The investigation into Conahan
began when a man named Stanley Burden reported to police
that Conahan had hired him to pose for nude and
bondage style photos in the woods and then tied him
to a tree attempted to rape him and then tried
(27:15):
to strangle him for more than thirty minutes before giving
up and leaving Burden naked and alone in the woods.
Stanley was able to free himself from the rope and
immediately reported the incident to police. Through credit card transactions
and evidence seized from Conahan's house, police linked him to
both the attack on Stanley Burden and the murder of
(27:37):
Richard Allan Montgomery, the only murder that Conahan has ever
been convicted of, but he is believed to be responsible
for all six Hog Trail murders Sarasota County John Doe,
William John Melagno, Kenneth Lee Smith, Richard Allan Montgomery, William
Charles Patten, and Charlotte County John Doe. The men identified
(28:02):
were known to be drifters, drug users, down on their luck,
gay men, or sex workers, and Conahan would tell detectives
that following his move to Punta Gorda, he quickly learned
that there were a lot of hitchhikers and drifters along
US Route forty one between Northport and Fort Myers who
would do anything to make a quick buck. In March
(28:27):
of two thousand seven, hunters discovered the skeletal remains of
eight men in the woods outside of Fort Myers, Florida.
Forensic examiners were able to determine that all eight men
had been victims of homicide, and due to the fact
that the bodies were found within one mile of where
Conahan assaulted and tried to kill Stanley Burden, police began
and continue to try to link Conahan to these eight murders,
(28:51):
John Blevins, Eric David Koehler, Jonathan James, to Hay, Robert
Ronald Soden, and unidentified victims A, A, B, F, and G.
All four of the identified men were local to or
went missing in the area. To Hay and Blevins were
both trying to make some quick money when they were
(29:12):
last heard from. Much like most of the Hog Trail victims,
due to decomposition, forensic examiners weren't able to determine whether
any of the Fort Myers eight had been sexually assaulted
or mutilated. Most of the Hog Trail victims had mutilated genitals.
Conahan would blame the trauma he endured for being gay,
(29:34):
first from his parents and then from the Navy for
his crimes. Many of these fourteen men were never even
reported missing. They were gay, They were drifters, they were hustlers,
they were attics, alienated, discarded men looking for a way
to get by, be loved, be made whole. They were
(29:57):
lost to the world, which is what makes investigating Lorenzo
and Schweikert and other killers of gay and marginalized men
so tricky. They were actively targeting people no one would
miss or care about, and they knew that because in
many ways they were those same people. The snake eating
(30:20):
its own tail.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
He has a constan she happened banish DC pass So.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
This episode was written, research, edited, and produced by me
Josh Hallmark Resources and included Florida State University, Nameless, the
Charlie Project, American Addiction Centers, Pink News, AMPHAR, BBC, the
National Library of Medicine, and the Florida Department of Corrections.
This episode was made possible by the following Patreon producers,
(32:15):
Amy Basel, Dale, Axton Kendall, c Amelia Hancock and at
l Ash Fish, Becky c Benjamin Choppathon Casey Jensen, Richardson,
Christina Sassoon, Cory Deeley, Drew Ipond, Heather Horton, Whedon, gen
j Gillian Natale, Kathleen's Studter Lna Holiday, Lauren f Lydia Rodarte,
Quayle Manolas Bullacus, Nicole and Dennis, Henry, Pink, Robin Wolfe,
(32:35):
s C. Shelley Brewer, Sherry D, Trista, zach Ignottowitz, Warren,
Bethany Heins, Carrie, Emily Payne, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor,
Kate Leuser, Kathy Nation, Megan Inman, Rene Laplont, Sabrina Abbott,
Spooky and Tory Myers. Thank you to Studio both Anne's
newest Patreon supporters, Tory M, Megan I, Sabrina A, Kate, L,
(32:55):
Kerry D, Kathy, n Ashley, K, Janet h, Alyssa M,
Sarah H, Melissa M, jess K, Jennifer A, meg H,
Tory Y, Chris S, Dorothy C, Colleen L, Liz Momo, Mio,
Bonnie C, Rebecca Windsurfs, Jennifer S, Sue s Allison, M,
Michelle W, Marlyn L, Nikki, T, Jacob, C, Ryan H
and so Sue. To support the investigation and all of
(33:17):
Studio both An's shows, go to Patreon dot com, slash
Studio both and supporters get ad Free and early episodes,
among many other perks. This episode included music by Jahes
cal Rez, Stanley Gervich, and Benjamin Esterless, with featured music
by choir Boy.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Said S S and S speech said something so let's
(34:46):
jack across my brown. That's dump of sat.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
She don't draw. I'm like, that's good night. She vanish,
oh shot, Oh my.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
This s that.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
That's my boy. That's it's so cat stop so Sue
(36:01):
song snop song.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
The S S S.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Snop so.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
S S song.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Cat sa something.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Ca sa se song the
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