May 22, 2025 • 12 mins
Wherein we blow up the entire investigation...
Halfway through writing this episode, something happened. An article, a map, and an IM chat changed the way we've been viewing this entire exploration and all of our research. There was a feeling we couldn't shake. The deeper we looked, the more questions we had. And we realized that this whole thing was bigger; so much bigger than we ever oculd have imagined. And so, we pressed pause and bounced into action. There is so much more to this story.
Halfway through writing this episode, something happened. An article, a map, and an IM chat changed the way we've been viewing this entire exploration and all of our research. There was a feeling we couldn't shake. The deeper we looked, the more questions we had. And we realized that this whole thing was bigger; so much bigger than we ever oculd have imagined. And so, we pressed pause and bounced into action. There is so much more to this story.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is a studio both and production. In the previous
episode and throughout the series, we've discussed how challenging it
can be to identify potential victims in the cases of
(00:31):
Stephen Lorenzo and Scott Schweikert. Based on photographic evidence seized
from Lorenzo's home in Tampa, we can say with almost
certainty that there are at least three other murder victims
in addition to Jason Galehouse and Michael Wacholdt's. And yet
even with photos of these three dead men and countless
(00:53):
other men in varying stages of undress and consciousness, law
enforcement has struggled to identify them. And as we've noted
with intent, many of Lorenzo's and Schweikert's victims were largely
invisible to the greater world. They were runaways, they were closeted,
they were alienated by their families. There were drug addicts
(01:16):
or users, and or they were men who lived on
the periphery. Many of them likely weren't even reported missing,
and those who were likely weren't taken seriously because of
the circumstances of their lives. Lorenzo said as much in
his im chats with multiple different men online. We also know,
(01:39):
based on im chats between Lorenzo and Schweikert, that at
minimum their intended victims extended beyond the Tampa jurisdiction and
even the whole of Florida state. They chatted about bringing
victims across state lines, and it's implied that they were
active in other states, specifically Georgia, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania,
(02:02):
and South Carolina. And so we started combing through missing
persons reports, john does and drugging and assault cases amongst
gay men and men living on the periphery in those
five other states during the times that Lorenzo and or
Schweikert could be placed living in or traveling in those areas.
(02:24):
What came back was a list of more than seventy men,
and of course we don't believe all of those men
could be victims. It was merely a starting point, and
it's also quite likely that there are many more missing
men in those areas, men whose cases just haven't made
(02:45):
it to NamUs, the Charlie Project, or even the news.
We also don't believe that Lorenzo and Schweikert as a
pair or individually were only involved in the deaths of
five men. So we started by looking at into Georgia,
the state that Stephen Lorenzo seemed most interested in. As
(03:05):
you may recall, police found notes and articles about missing
gay men in Georgia stashed throughout Lorenzo's house in Tampa.
Based on what we could find online, which is likely
only a fraction of the missing men, unsolved deads, and
doze from our search parameters, we found sixteen potential victims
(03:26):
in Georgia, all missing gay men or men living on
the periphery or in high risk lifestyles who disappeared during
the timeframe we can place Lorenzo and or Schweikert in Georgia.
Like many things in this case, the timeline here is
a bit murky. Lorenzo moved to Florida sometime around nineteen
(03:47):
eighty eight. As best we can tell in as I
am Chat's interviews and conversations, it's clear that following his
move he spent a considerable amount of time in Georgia.
He talked about going to gay clubs in Atlanta, even
openly discussed multiple men from the Atlanta area whom he
had considered drugging, kidnapping and murdering and Schweikert well. He
(04:12):
lived in Athens, Georgia, and vaguely nearby in the suburbs
of Charleston, South Carolina, for several years in the late
nineties and early aughts, right around the time the gay
Internet began to thrive with aol M for m chat
rooms in gay dot com. So, based on the timelines
and Lorenzo's and Schweikert's known mos, we were looking for
(04:33):
men who disappeared from gay bars, or for male hustlers
or attics who disappeared off the streets in gay areas,
mainly in the pre internet days. Additionally, we were looking
for gay or closeted men who had robust online lives
in the late nineties and early aughts. Additionally, while the
(04:55):
case file shed little insight on the missing gay men cases,
Lorenzo wa following we were looking for any string of
disappearances of gay men out of Georgia, and I was
immediately struck by a few things. One of the missing
men who met our criteria, only one was noted as gay.
(05:16):
Now that's obviously not conclusive. Many men are closeted or
at least closeted to their families. There are also many
families who won't report their missing children as gay because
of either shame or fear of how that might impact
law enforcements care of their cases. Additionally, law enforcement don't
always include those details in their case reports out of
(05:38):
either discomfort or disinterest. Two. Most of the missing men
had only two to three sentences detailing their lives and disappearances.
Extensive Google searches generally only added one or two more details.
These were missing people with full lives that were narrowed
down to two to three sentences, and three there was
(06:02):
no obvious trend of missing gay men in Georgia. This
could mean a few things. In the seventeen years following
Lorenzo's arrest, these cases could have fallen in Google searches,
or have been altogether scrubbed. Or these cases never received
enough attention to have a presence on the Internet. And
(06:24):
Lorenzo wasn't following a general pattern of missing men, but
was instead perhaps searching for specific missing men. And that's
where things got complicated, And that is where the script ends,
because as I continued trying to write, I kept digging
(06:47):
further into a few different variables that were at play
in our investigation. A man with a similar mo to Lorenzo,
targeting gay men in Georgia. A police covered strange coincidences
and connections between Lorenzo and another serial killer in all
the places Lorenzo lived, hung out, and stalked. An odd
(07:12):
cameo by Jeffrey Dahmer in our investigation and parallels between
the work we were doing and work that was being
conducted where Schweikert was from the Upper Midwest. With the
Herbauermeister case, a lot of our tangents and resources were coalescing,
(07:33):
and suddenly we realized the case was so much bigger.
There was more to investigate, more connections to be made,
and if we had one chance to tell the story,
we'd better fucking tell it right. And as I sat
(07:55):
down staring at one article in particular, I realized that
our research had only just begun, and that I needed
to get to Tampa, Florida right away. And this is
where I'll leave you for now, pressing pause. As we
(08:16):
go further down the rabbit hole, as we make connections
we never even considered looking into, and as we realize
the Pandora's box we opened with this case, it's much
larger and much scarier than we ever could have imagined.
(08:38):
We're pressing pause for now, but this is only the
beginning of unsafe spaces.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
We used to have it all planned. We thought we
knew what it all looked like. We were looking out
on the greatest view. We were raised to take a stand.
We were raised to keep an open mind. We believe.
We just say alone through Now I'm one hundred miles
(09:11):
an hour, sitting in my palace without any power, alone
in the dark. We're alone in the dark. But we
could always try a bit harder. But if the dice
don't a roll in your favor, it falls apart. The
fantasy falls apart.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
And this is old fantasies. And tell them is up.
Time to relieve, and they're on down.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's very hard.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
A trivy rope, m open save brace from on the
doors a million I heard you better off on your own,
but I ain't gonna face this pulse. I've beleaveing you.
I know you really am too wed in this game together.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Pace, I be leaving you.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I know you will leave me to well.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
The same together games together.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
All the faces were forgotten, all the trucks were given up.
Only so mom, no, it was nowhere near enough. But
I taske it as it comes, ill taste it as
I only you can't. I take it off and rue
worth it goes because this is old fantasson. Time is up.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I'm duly leaving it on down. It's very od, But
every rope up and save bread from the doors. A
million it. I heard you better off on your own.
But I ain't gonna face this. I've believing you.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I know you will need me too. Put in the
skins together, putting the skin together.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I believe you.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I don't know we will leave am.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
What are the stains together?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Others putting the stand together?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
So we need in you, So I need it.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I don't know you line images, put in the skins together, put.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
In the skin together.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I believe in you. I don't know we believe images.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
What are the stains together? Others put the skin together.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So I mean, I don't know about the images. But
in science together, but it's signs together.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Now believes.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I don't know we willie images, but the signs together
with his science together. So he's new
This is a studio both and production. In the previous
episode and throughout the series, we've discussed how challenging it
can be to identify potential victims in the cases of
(00:31):
Stephen Lorenzo and Scott Schweikert. Based on photographic evidence seized
from Lorenzo's home in Tampa, we can say with almost
certainty that there are at least three other murder victims
in addition to Jason Galehouse and Michael Wacholdt's. And yet
even with photos of these three dead men and countless
(00:53):
other men in varying stages of undress and consciousness, law
enforcement has struggled to identify them. And as we've noted
with intent, many of Lorenzo's and Schweikert's victims were largely
invisible to the greater world. They were runaways, they were closeted,
they were alienated by their families. There were drug addicts
(01:16):
or users, and or they were men who lived on
the periphery. Many of them likely weren't even reported missing,
and those who were likely weren't taken seriously because of
the circumstances of their lives. Lorenzo said as much in
his im chats with multiple different men online. We also know,
(01:39):
based on im chats between Lorenzo and Schweikert, that at
minimum their intended victims extended beyond the Tampa jurisdiction and
even the whole of Florida state. They chatted about bringing
victims across state lines, and it's implied that they were
active in other states, specifically Georgia, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania,
(02:02):
and South Carolina. And so we started combing through missing
persons reports, john does and drugging and assault cases amongst
gay men and men living on the periphery in those
five other states during the times that Lorenzo and or
Schweikert could be placed living in or traveling in those areas.
(02:24):
What came back was a list of more than seventy men,
and of course we don't believe all of those men
could be victims. It was merely a starting point, and
it's also quite likely that there are many more missing
men in those areas, men whose cases just haven't made
(02:45):
it to NamUs, the Charlie Project, or even the news.
We also don't believe that Lorenzo and Schweikert as a
pair or individually were only involved in the deaths of
five men. So we started by looking at into Georgia,
the state that Stephen Lorenzo seemed most interested in. As
(03:05):
you may recall, police found notes and articles about missing
gay men in Georgia stashed throughout Lorenzo's house in Tampa.
Based on what we could find online, which is likely
only a fraction of the missing men, unsolved deads, and
doze from our search parameters, we found sixteen potential victims
(03:26):
in Georgia, all missing gay men or men living on
the periphery or in high risk lifestyles who disappeared during
the timeframe we can place Lorenzo and or Schweikert in Georgia.
Like many things in this case, the timeline here is
a bit murky. Lorenzo moved to Florida sometime around nineteen
(03:47):
eighty eight. As best we can tell in as I
am Chat's interviews and conversations, it's clear that following his
move he spent a considerable amount of time in Georgia.
He talked about going to gay clubs in Atlanta, even
openly discussed multiple men from the Atlanta area whom he
had considered drugging, kidnapping and murdering and Schweikert well. He
(04:12):
lived in Athens, Georgia, and vaguely nearby in the suburbs
of Charleston, South Carolina, for several years in the late
nineties and early aughts, right around the time the gay
Internet began to thrive with aol M for m chat
rooms in gay dot com. So, based on the timelines
and Lorenzo's and Schweikert's known mos, we were looking for
(04:33):
men who disappeared from gay bars, or for male hustlers
or attics who disappeared off the streets in gay areas,
mainly in the pre internet days. Additionally, we were looking
for gay or closeted men who had robust online lives
in the late nineties and early aughts. Additionally, while the
(04:55):
case file shed little insight on the missing gay men cases,
Lorenzo wa following we were looking for any string of
disappearances of gay men out of Georgia, and I was
immediately struck by a few things. One of the missing
men who met our criteria, only one was noted as gay.
(05:16):
Now that's obviously not conclusive. Many men are closeted or
at least closeted to their families. There are also many
families who won't report their missing children as gay because
of either shame or fear of how that might impact
law enforcements care of their cases. Additionally, law enforcement don't
always include those details in their case reports out of
(05:38):
either discomfort or disinterest. Two. Most of the missing men
had only two to three sentences detailing their lives and disappearances.
Extensive Google searches generally only added one or two more details.
These were missing people with full lives that were narrowed
down to two to three sentences, and three there was
(06:02):
no obvious trend of missing gay men in Georgia. This
could mean a few things. In the seventeen years following
Lorenzo's arrest, these cases could have fallen in Google searches,
or have been altogether scrubbed. Or these cases never received
enough attention to have a presence on the Internet. And
(06:24):
Lorenzo wasn't following a general pattern of missing men, but
was instead perhaps searching for specific missing men. And that's
where things got complicated, And that is where the script ends,
because as I continued trying to write, I kept digging
(06:47):
further into a few different variables that were at play
in our investigation. A man with a similar mo to Lorenzo,
targeting gay men in Georgia. A police covered strange coincidences
and connections between Lorenzo and another serial killer in all
the places Lorenzo lived, hung out, and stalked. An odd
(07:12):
cameo by Jeffrey Dahmer in our investigation and parallels between
the work we were doing and work that was being
conducted where Schweikert was from the Upper Midwest. With the
Herbauermeister case, a lot of our tangents and resources were coalescing,
(07:33):
and suddenly we realized the case was so much bigger.
There was more to investigate, more connections to be made,
and if we had one chance to tell the story,
we'd better fucking tell it right. And as I sat
(07:55):
down staring at one article in particular, I realized that
our research had only just begun, and that I needed
to get to Tampa, Florida right away. And this is
where I'll leave you for now, pressing pause. As we
(08:16):
go further down the rabbit hole, as we make connections
we never even considered looking into, and as we realize
the Pandora's box we opened with this case, it's much
larger and much scarier than we ever could have imagined.
(08:38):
We're pressing pause for now, but this is only the
beginning of unsafe spaces.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
We used to have it all planned. We thought we
knew what it all looked like. We were looking out
on the greatest view. We were raised to take a stand.
We were raised to keep an open mind. We believe.
We just say alone through Now I'm one hundred miles
(09:11):
an hour, sitting in my palace without any power, alone
in the dark. We're alone in the dark. But we
could always try a bit harder. But if the dice
don't a roll in your favor, it falls apart. The
fantasy falls apart.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
And this is old fantasies. And tell them is up.
Time to relieve, and they're on down.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's very hard.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
A trivy rope, m open save brace from on the
doors a million I heard you better off on your own,
but I ain't gonna face this pulse. I've beleaveing you.
I know you really am too wed in this game together.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Pace, I be leaving you.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I know you will leave me to well.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
The same together games together.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
All the faces were forgotten, all the trucks were given up.
Only so mom, no, it was nowhere near enough. But
I taske it as it comes, ill taste it as
I only you can't. I take it off and rue
worth it goes because this is old fantasson. Time is up.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I'm duly leaving it on down. It's very od, But
every rope up and save bread from the doors. A
million it. I heard you better off on your own.
But I ain't gonna face this. I've believing you.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I know you will need me too. Put in the
skins together, putting the skin together.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I believe you.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I don't know we will leave am.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
What are the stains together?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Others putting the stand together?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
So we need in you, So I need it.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I don't know you line images, put in the skins together, put.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
In the skin together.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I believe in you. I don't know we believe images.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
What are the stains together? Others put the skin together.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So I mean, I don't know about the images. But
in science together, but it's signs together.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Now believes.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I don't know we willie images, but the signs together
with his science together. So he's new
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