June 28, 2024 • 56 mins
He is a 2021 Artists 360 recipient and a 2022 recipient of the Arkansas Arts Council Individual Artist Fellowship Award for his Kirkus-starred, reviewed graphic nonfiction book “What Follows Is True: Crescent Hotel. He has exhibited work throughout the US. He also illustrates books and recently completed writing and illustrating a documentary-style graphic nonfiction that explores the Crescent Hotel’s strange two years as the Baker Hospital, one of the darkest and most controversial legends in the town of Eureka Springs, Arkansas. Be sure to also follow his work on Instagram at instagram.com/seanpfitzgibbon and facebook at facebook.com/seanfitzgibbonart Be sure to subscribe to the Un-X Network so you don't miss a show! See our complete show listing at www.unxnetwork.com and get a free or paid subscription!
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(00:31):
It's time for the annexed news newsextraterrestrials, time anomalies, dimension dimensions,
remote viewing, UFOs, UAPs andUSO's, ghostly encounters, abduptions, Bigfoot
and more, your end of theweek news source for everything everything unexplained.
(00:58):
Here is your home for the nextnews podcast, Margie K. Good evening,
everyone, Welcome to INEXT News.I'm your host, Margie K,
(01:19):
and we're here every Friday evening atsix pm Central seven pm Eastern. I
have a really good show for youthis evening. But first I want to
talk about something very strange. It'sbeen happening this past week. Started on
Tuesday, I begin to have severevertigo, and throughout the week I found
(01:42):
out that a number of people Iknow who are also sensitives are also experiencing
vertigo. So if you have hadthat issue as well, I would love
to hear from you, send mea note at MARGIEK eleven eleven at gmail
dot com. Would because I'm tryingto keep track of this and really trying
(02:04):
to figure out what the source isbecause I'm thinking it has something to do
with the electromagnetic field of the Earth. So in the meantime, we will
will plug on. Be sure alsothat you check out our conference page at
onex network dot com where you cansee what we're calling it is the Conference
(02:24):
Connection, and you'll see every conferencethat we can possibly find that's related to
paranormal UFOs, hauntings, cryptids,anything like that is listed there. So
if you are into conferences, eitheronline or in person, that's the place
to go. That's a good resourcefor it. My guest this evening is
(02:46):
Sean Fitzgibven. He's an artist andan author. He explores unusual, real
places and events through his work.He has an MFA in art and a
passion for making art and usual storytelling. He's a twenty twenty one Artist three
sixty recipient and a twenty twenty tworecipient of the Arkansas Arts Council Individual Artist
(03:09):
Fellowship Award for his Kirkus Starred reviewedgraphic nonfiction book What Follows is True Crescent
Hotel, and that is exactly whatwe're going to be speaking about tonight.
Welcome to the program. Sean,Hi, nice to be here, so
glad you could join me this evening. When I saw the book, he
(03:31):
wrote, my ears perked up becausethat is a place I've been to many
times, and it certainly has avery rich history. This is going to
be quite interesting this evening. I'mreally looking forward to it. How did
you get interested in this particular place? Well, I get asked that a
(03:54):
lot, in fact, and that'sa good question. I So, I'm
originally from southwest Missouri, about onehundred miles from from the Crescent Hotel from
Eureka Springs, and my parents,you know, in the summertime, they
(04:15):
would take take me and my sister, we'd go down. We just go,
you know, on these little visitsdown to Eureka, and I was
always just kind of fascinated by thattown. Uh, it's it's it's so
unusual, and it's it's beautiful,you know, it's just this beautiful Victorian
hamlet that's just sort of nestled deepin the ozarks, and it had and
(04:38):
it was just you know, Iremember my parents telling me that a couple
of things that, you know,before we went the first time, they
were like, well, it's it'sit's on the Ripley's believe it or not,
like Robert Ripley's list of nine mostUnusual places in the US. And
one reason for that is because uh, none of the roads in Eureka Springs
(05:03):
that none of the roads intersect.They all just kind of serpentine throughout.
You know. It's very strange,you know, it's very interesting. And
yeah, there's no right angles inthe town. There's no stop lights,
it's all and there's stairs that justgo everywhere, you know, just up
(05:26):
the sides of these hills, justyou know, because much of the downtown
is just sort of in this deepvalley, you know, with all these
limestone bluffs with Victorian homes just kindof you know, perched up on these
up on these bluffs and throughout thesecrevices, and it's just so unusual.
(05:48):
Like another thing that's so unusual isthat you have like the Basin Park Hotel
and it's the only it's a seventhstory hotel, but every floor is it
ground level. And that's because that'sbecause that's because it's it's right up against
(06:09):
a mountain basically, so every everyevery floor it's like you get off and
you're on a you know, you'reyou're at ground level. So that hotel
also has a history being haunted.I supported, yes, I've only stayed
there once, and I don't knowas much about that history because I haven't
(06:31):
really researched much, but it researchedit as much. But it is very
it is a spooky place to visit, mistay, you know, it really
is. It just has this andit does have a very kind of strange
history. But yeah, the thewhole town is just so unusual. And
(06:56):
I would have to say the thingthat just always just didn't kind of spoke
to me the most and just ina way kind of haunted me over the
years was the Crescent Hotel, youknow, because it sits at the high
point of town, and you know, like I was saying earlier, it's
just sort of perched like almost likeyour gargoyle. You know. It's like
(07:17):
it's it's almost like, you know, any of the any early like Gothic
story like the Haunting of Hill Houseby Shirley Jackson or Stephen Kings is shining.
It's like usually these houses that sitat the highest point of town,
you know, And so it reallyjust kind of you know, and then
(07:39):
it also has this very dark history, you know, because we would go
on the ghost tours, we didn'tlive, you know, we were only
like one hundred miles from there.So we would we wouldn't stay but the
evening, but the night, butwe would stay and go on the ghost
tour and then head back. ButI remember, yeah, just being here
(08:00):
these stories, you know about thisfraudulent medical practitioner, you know, this
guy bring into town claiming to havethe cure for cancer and uh, turning
it into this abnormal hospital. Andonce again, I mean echoes of like
you know, it's a hotel.It's like you get the like the shining,
(08:24):
you know, and then Mary Shelley'sFrankenstein, all these sort of Gothic
you know exactly like this image hereis like that's you can definitely probably see
my influence of like Gothic literature.I love. I love that sort of
sort of thing. So we've gotthe hotel in the background and this church
(08:46):
in the in the front. Whydon't we talk about that church a little
bit. Sure, Yeah, that'sSaint Elizabeth. Uh, it's a it's
an old Catholic church that actually wasbuilt not long after the Creston Hotel.
So the uh, well, letme back up a little bit before I
(09:07):
get into that. I can tellyou, you mind if I go into
the hotel and then kind of gointo the church a little bit whatever you'd
want. Well, because the Crescentwas built in eighteen eighty six and uh
and so it was this very exclusiveresort, you know, and only like
you know, very wealthy people wouldstay there, and they would travel from
(09:31):
all over to stay at this hotel. So it was like, you know,
think of the most exclusive, youknow, club in la It was
like that. It was. Itwas very You had to be on a
waiting list to get to stay atthe Creston Hotel. And it was decked
out in Edison lighting. It hadit had an intercom system and had elevators,
(09:52):
It had stables for riding horses,it had a bowling alley. Very
exclusive. And however, that thatdid not last very long because by let's
see, by about nineteen oh eight, the hotel had to well they had
(10:15):
to shut its doors part time becausethey just were having a hard time afford
it. They couldn't afford it basicallybecause of its location. Because the hotel
is well, if you know anythingabout Urga Springs, it's very difficult to
get to even today if it's ifthere's snow or anything, it's like forget
(10:35):
about it because all the roads gettingout there are just it's very windy and
it's beautiful, but it's there's nostraight line to get there, you know.
And so just imagine what that waslike, you know, in the
(10:56):
late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds. So, yeah, the horse and
buggy of slippery roads, steep incline, snow, no thank you. I
could see how they Now, maybein the spring and summer they probably did
okay, but I imagine in thewinter months it would have been bad.
Right. Oh yeah, Well,and that was the case. So during
(11:16):
the summer it opened up as theCrescent Hotel and Resort, and it's but
then what they did is in thewinter, uh, it became the Crescent
Conservatory for young women. It wasbasically a girls school, and it was
a very nice girls school and uhand uh it actually remained a girls school
(11:39):
until the nineteen twenties. It wasso it was a girls school in the
you know, in the winter,and then it was the hotel in the
summer. And it stayed that wayfor many years. And uh. And
they were able to sort of dothat, you know, kind of go
(12:01):
back and forth like that. Butthen you know, the Great Depression,
Great Depression came along the nineteen thirties, and sadly that ended both the hotel
and the girls' school around nineteen thirtyfour, and so then the hotel just
(12:22):
basically lay dormant for a few yearsuntil nineteen thirty seven. And that's when
a fellow by the name of NormanBaker comes driving into town. He's driving
a purple Cord roadster, very verynice automobile, you know, and it's
(12:50):
purple, which is very you know, you didn't see that in the nineteen
thirties. Every car was black,you know, so it was definitely a
custom job, you know. Andanyway, and he in this Norman Baker
wore these white suits with purple shirtsand lavender ties. That was what he
wore all the time, and hand had his purple car. And he
(13:13):
also claimed to have the cure forcancer. And he told the people of
Eureka, he said, you know, see that derelict, abandoned hotel up
on the hill. He's like,I'm gonna I'm going to open that hotel
up as I'm going to buy thathotel and open it up as the Baker
Hospital where I will cure cancer.And see, at this time, it's
(13:37):
like, well, you know thatthey weren't doing well. It's like,
well, the Great Depression was youknow, they took a hit, you
know, the their economy, andso they just you know, he that's
exactly what happened. He came inand turned it into the Baker Hospital,
(13:58):
and lots of pains came from allover many He had a lot of patients
from his hospital in Muscatine, Iowa, which is where he was from.
And I can, if you'd like, I could kind of talk a little
bit about Norman Baker. So wekind of have well, most definitely because
(14:22):
he's he's the darkest part of thisstory, I think, right, yeah,
yeah, we definitely want to hearabout him. Okay, So Norman
Baker, he was he was fromMuscatine, Iowa. And let's see,
he was he was trying to thinkright now, born in eighteen eighty five,
(14:46):
I believe is when he was born. I'm trying to think exactly,
but yeah, I was right aroundthat same time as the Crescent Hotel.
And anyway, he was the youngestof he had ten brothers and sisters,
and so he was a you know, basically a he was His father was
(15:11):
a machinist and his mother was ashe was a she wrote poetry for magazines
and so yeah, so kind ofinteresting, you know, he had a
mother who was very you know intoliterature, and then this father who was
a machinist. And so Norman Bakerends up dropping out of high school when
(15:33):
he's in the tenth grade and hegoes to work for his father as a
machinist. And he ends up gettinginto a contentious relationship with his with his
father, and he takes off andhe's like, I'm done with you know,
being a machinist here. And hegoes to work for the Vocal Button
(15:54):
Company. They basically, uh extractyou know that they created They made buttons
from pearl buttons from that were frommuscles that were excavated from the Mississippi River,
you know, and they Muscatine wason the Mississippi. It's a it's
(16:15):
a river town right there on theMississippi. And uh. And so anyway,
he works at the button company therefor a while and picking up a
lot of you know, he's reallykind of learning the craft of being a
machinist. And uh, however,once again he has this rather difficult kind
(16:37):
of relationship with with the management andhe ends up leaving there and going out
to become a vaudeville magician. Sohe goes on with the vaudeville circuit.
Yeah, it's kind of it's kindof interesting. So he's he's doing this,
like he becomes what's known as amentalist. Like he's doing and uh
(17:02):
so he's like doing these sort ofmental uh you know, telling people there
you know, he's uh mental Yeah, yeah, like hypgnosis sort of tricks
and things like that. He wouldalso do like levitation tricks and and uh
the kind of those kind of thosekind of mentalist tricks and uh so he's
(17:26):
basically kind of scamming people, youknow, because he's a lot of this
was just sort of telling people whatthey want to hear and making money off
it, and uh he was actuallypretty good at it. And he started
working with a woman, uh hecalled her Madam Tangly, and she was
his assistant and he would who hewould do a lot of these kind of
(17:48):
levitation tricks and a lot of andshe would also work with people in the
audience and he would read their mindsand do that sort of thing. They
had a they were married briefly andduring this time she uh so, her
father was a was a musician,and and while they were married, he
(18:11):
started working with her dad and uhmade these these organs, like it was
basically like a it was like apipe organ type thing called he called it
the caliophone. It was a calliopebasically like one of these things that you
you you find it like you know, like at baseball games you have like,
(18:36):
yeah, it's it was one ofthose, except at that time they
ran out, they ran off ofsteam. They were steam powered. And
he and so he created the firstair powered calliope. At least the the
patent is attributed to Norman Baker.There's some question as to whether or not
(18:57):
he stole the patent from her father. That's that's what so, I don't
know, I mean, and hewas brilliant, but he was a but
he also was you know, heconned people quite often. And uh So,
anyway, he starts from from goingegos from the vaudeville circuit to creating
(19:19):
these air calliopes that he called thecalliophone, and he ends up making millions
off that, and uh and sofrom that he his well basically his his
caliopy factory mysteriously burns down one night, and uh so he starts an arts
(19:40):
correspondence course course he can he hadno artistic training, and uh he tells
people he can teach him how toyou know, do this do art with
his through his correspondence course, andhe ends up making what would be the
equivalent of millions today off of thisis well, like he's, yeah,
it was really wild how he wasable to do all that. And so
(20:04):
then he gets his calliope, hiscaliophone business going again. And then at
this time he's also starting these likealmost like a Sears in Roebuck type magazine
where he's like he has like mailorder, like he's selling products you know,
(20:25):
like from just from like brooms toautomobile tires to like live canaries,
you name it. He was sellingit through his through his magazine called TNT
magazine and that's an acronym for theNaked Truth. And so he also at
(20:45):
this time started his own radio station. And this is in Muscatine, Iowa.
And so his his radio station iswhere he's basically you know, his
his his At first, it startsout where he's just kind of pushing his
peddling all his his you know,items that he sells through his catalog and
(21:11):
through his magazines. But then itstarts becoming his his rhetoric starts to become
more inflammatory, and he starts,like I said, early on, he
had these very contentious relationships with peoplethat he met, like or that he
worked with, and that that spreadthroughout his entire career. He made enemies
(21:33):
with people throughout the city of Muscatine. Everybody. Yeah, he really was.
Yeah, and and uh. Andone of the groups that he really
was making enemies with was the AmericanMedical Association because yeah, it's very strange.
And also the Federal Radio Commission,the or the Federal yeah Communications Commission,
(21:59):
the FC. See, you know, because his radio station, he
kept amping up the the wattage,like the you know of his radio beyond
the regular you know. Yeah,and so you could hear his radio station
clear out and like from in Honolulu, you know, from like Muscatine,
(22:22):
and it was it was crazy,and you could hear it way up in
Canada and down in Mexico. Andbecause you know that the Federal Radio Commission
would come along and then he wouldlike once again, his radio station was
at the highest point of town inMuscatine. Just like when he would later
you know, take over the Crescent. It was at the highest point of
town, and so he was alwaysable to kind of see whenever people were
(22:45):
coming around. He could always turnthe dials down, you know, but
they knew what he they were onto, what he was up to,
what he was doing, you know, like I said he was. He
was always in litigations with like theradio commit as well as the American Medical
Association because he started calling them likethe uh oh, like the American meat
(23:08):
Cutters Association because he he he heardabout a a this this this so called
doctor in Kansas City, Missouri whoclaimed to have the cure for cancer.
Okay, and so uh this guybasically you know, said he was caring
(23:30):
cancer, and so Norman wanted tohave him on his radio show and and
and also promote this in his magazine. So he basically has him on there
and then Baker's like, you knowwhat, I'm this works for me,
and so he basically he steals thisguy's cancer serum, you know, his
and uh and then so he immediatelyis like, I have the cure for
(23:53):
cancer. And then to prove it, He's like I'm going to have five
test patients on my on my showand on and on the in my magazine.
And uh so he has these fiveterminally ill patients, you know,
and he puts this in his,uh The Naked Truth TNT magazine and he
(24:18):
says, you know, all threeof these are, all five of these
patients, I'm going to cure allfive of them. And this is like,
okay. So this is around thefirst of the year, and then
it's like by May of that year, every five all five of them are
dead. And uh but so whatdoes Norman Baker do. He reprints that
(24:41):
same magazine three different times without changinga single word, and then he starts
his first cancer hospital saying he cancure cancer and and that's in Mescatine,
Iowa. And so yeah, thisis definitely a bad guy. Yeah.
Yeah, he knows that this isnot true, and he's getting ready to
(25:03):
start a new hospital exactly. Andso that and I know that some people
throughout the years have told me,no, I think he was really doing
some good, but you really can't. If you look at that, you
can really see where no, hewas he truly knew what he was doing
that he or he knew that hisYou know, his formula did not cure
(25:26):
cancer, and well we'll have tolet's pick up on that and find out
more about him and what he didwith that hotel. After these few messages
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Fine the Hopewell Farm link and couponcode on the Unexed Network website at unexnetwork
dot com. That's unexnetwork dot com. And we're back with the next news.
I'm your host, margiek and myguest this evening is Sean Fitzgibbon.
He is the author of this book. It's called What follows is True Crescent
(27:52):
Hotel. And there's a lot aboutthis hotel. So in the next twenty
minutes, John, we've got toget it in here. What is the
story Okay, Yeah, Well,so basically, let me tell you Norman
Baker then gets kicked out of Muscatineand what's he ended up doing. He
(28:15):
goes down to Mexico and starts upa hospital there briefly, you know,
and then and then then he endsup in He works his way up to
back into the States and works hisway into Arkansas and sets up shop at
the Crescent Hotel basically and in nineteenthirty seven. So that kind of brings
(28:37):
us back to where I was tellingyou, you know, where he comes
to town, you know, claimingto have the cure for cancer. And
so he opens it up as aBaker hospital and it's open for two years
until his arrest in nineteen thirty nine. And yeah, and it was a
very strange two years. He tookthis beautiful Victorian, you know, this
(29:00):
beautiful hotel and and turned it intothis uh. He painted it purple throughout
the He tore out the the beautifuluh front part of the you know,
the the uh, the front partof the hotel. The well, he
tore out the ballu straight like thefront porches, you know, these wood
(29:23):
beautiful wooden porches that were like layeredporches, and then he uh he put
in concrete porches and took the outthe wood that that kind of ruined the
Victorian looked to the to the hotel. He did that so it would support
all the patients being wheeled out ontothe uh you know, out on onto
(29:45):
the porches. So it was likea stack, you know at the front
of the hotel has the different levels. You know, that was originally if
you look at the old photos thosethat that front portion of the hotel was
wood. And so he kind ofhe so he basically ruined the the Victorian
charm of the hotel, you know, and from that angle. And then
(30:10):
he also you know, slathered paintwhat you know, purple paint and orange
orange and purple gold, this sortof art deco uh theme throughout it was
very very angular. Yeah, itwas crazy. And you put all his
propaganda posters all over the hotel anduh and uh and and so anyway,
(30:34):
he oh, he also had abulletproof he had uh, bullet proof glass
like around his his his his deskin his office. And he also wore
bulletproof vests around because and he carrieda gun on him at all times because
(30:56):
he was extremely paranoid, you know, very well, rightfully. So,
I mean he was a pretty paranoidguy, you know, because you know,
he knew it was only a matterof time before it was probably gonna
you know, things were going tocatch up to him, you know.
But as the you know, likeI said, he wasn't carrying cancer,
(31:17):
and so as the body count wasrising, so we're federal law enforcement,
we're kind of moving in. Andlike I said, it was only two
years until his arrest. And andthat's what a lot of my book kind
of covers this very strange two years. And I also go over you know,
I also talk about a lot ofthe ghost you know, these sort
(31:38):
of things as well, all theghost encounters through I tell that through the
ghost tour because in the book,I'm going on the ghost tour. Now
that image you just put up rightthere was, yeah. This, So
in my book, I sort ofbookend this this story with there is these
(32:00):
two boys that snuck into the Crescentafter Norman Baker was arrested a couple of
years after that, so the hotelsat empty throughout all of World War two,
and I met a gentleman who hewas this older gentleman who when he
was a kid. He and afriend of his lived in Eureka, and
(32:21):
they snuck in there and they foundyou know what they what they found in
there was very very strange, youknow, some of the some of the
items they uncovered, and uh anduh, and it was a very very
spooky experience. And so I usedthat story that you know, his story,
you know, as like I said, as sort of a bookend and
(32:45):
uh, because yeah, it wasvery strange walking through this very you know,
this this abandoned place with these wheelchairsand and uh. And they also
found in the morgue area, theyfound these jars are full of well basically
huven remains, you know, it'sbasically full of like cancerous tumors and parts
(33:09):
like that, you know, verystrange, which would strangely be buried and
then unearthed about eighty years later intwenty nineteen on the grounds of the Crescent
Hotel. Yeah. I don't know, Yeah, I don't know if you
were aware of this, but wellI knew about the jar story because it
(33:30):
took it. Yeah sure, Andoh boy is it creepy in that morgue.
Oh yeah, And those were thosewere the jars that he found.
Those very jars and so I wasactually kind of wrapping my book up around
twenty nineteen, and that's that storymade national news, you know. And
(33:52):
yeah, his his Yeah, somebodywho's just saying his office is in the
gift shop in the hotel. Yeah, it is part or his well his
uh yeah, that's where his officewas. And then his desk is in
the front lobby there or part ofhis desk. I didn't like to feelated
that desk, I know. Yeah, it's very dark energy round. Oh
yeah, yeah, it's very verystrange, very strange. So what was
(34:15):
he doing with all of these peoplein the hotel that was supposedly curing of
cancer? What was their ultimate end? Well, he had a certain section
of the hotel that was designated forthe more advanced patients, you know,
and it was and it was moreof a where he was kind of a
(34:39):
sealed off section where people weren't reallyallowed to go except for the you know,
the well medical staff you know.And uh and however, you know,
most of these people, you know, like some of the people didn't
even have cancer, you know,they they were undie they were misdiagnosed,
(35:02):
you know, because he had somepeople that were miraculously cured. Well they
never had cancer, you know inthe first place. And so he also
had some people there that were justplaying the part of having cancer, you
know, and so they would beout walking the grounds and walking around the
town because that was the way hepromoted his hotel or his his hospital as
(35:25):
being this sort of friendly place whereyou could just come and and bring your
fish and tackle and just you knowhow it's just a just a it's like
a big house for a big family. You know. We're just one big
family, you know. And sobut then you know, some of these
(35:46):
people were, you know, likehe was taking some of the people's letters
and kind of stockpiling some of theseletters that they were writing to their families,
and and he would send these outafter they would die, and he
would start sending them out where they'dbe saying, you know, please send
some money or something like that.You know, so he was like collecting
(36:06):
money after they had died, andthen later he would send out a regrets
letter saying, oh, they didn'tmake it, you know. Or but
he also was very like anytime peoplegot we're in like the more advanced stages.
A lot of times he would havethem. He would he would have
them leave like they would be youknow, taken away from them from the
(36:29):
hospital, you know, and theysome of these people would die like on
their way, like on a trainleaving Eureka Springs, you know, because
it was bad for business, youknow, having having people die, and
and a lot of times late atnight, you know, they I talked
to some people that would spoke oflike you know, these parades of Hearses
(36:52):
going down the hill late at nightbecause he he would have you know that
that sort of thing happened, youknow, after or in the late hours,
you know, like they getting ridof bodies and stuff like that.
And so did they have services atthis church? Yeah, there there were
services at that church. In fact, one of the there was one of
(37:15):
the patients was a priest. Uhand I actually and he actually died there
and I and he's in my book. I actually I found this information about
this Catholic priest that was there andso and so yeah, he was,
he's in my book. And theybut they did, they did have services
(37:36):
at the church Saint Elizabeth. Andand in fact, that's I'm kind of
show that in my book because itreally is it it's pretty perfect because it's
it's basically right at the base ofthe hotel. You can if you stay
at the hotel, you can justwalk just a short ways down the hill
(37:57):
to the to the church. Likeit's right there. You know, It's
just you can see it in thatpicture I drew. It's just right there.
What about some of the hauntings thatthat are going on there? You
just sent me this photo I did. Yeah, and so you know this
is a very spooky image right here. Because okay, so I was actually
(38:19):
a gentleman gave me this photo orhe like, he sent it to me.
One day. It was like,I actually had a guy. It
was a guy over at our houseI lived. I'm in Fayetteville, but
he was staying. He was hewas a repairman. He was actually doing
work on our on our washer anddryer, and and uh he saw my
book there and I was like,oh, yeah, I did this book
about the Creston Hotel and he wasand so he started telling me the story.
(38:44):
He's like, well, you know, it's strange. When I was
staying at the crest And Hotel,I was, you know, taking these
pictures. And uh, later Ilooked at the pictures and he's like and
I saw what he made my youknow, hair stand up on it,
and it was this little girl andand I was like, oh really and
uh and he showed me the pictureand I this was I've seen a lot
(39:07):
of photos, you know, fromthe Crescent and uh A lot of times
it's like, well, it's it'skind of hard to make out, you
know, like sometimes you can kindof see like a form. But this
is one that I was like,wow, that is that is very eerie.
And uh yeah, clearly it's clearlya little girl, okay. And
(39:30):
so what's interesting is so when itwas the Baker Hospital, there was a
little girl who tragically died there.She was the she was the daughter of
one of the nurses at the hotel, and she was playing around on the
third floor on the top floor thereand uh and tried and sadly she slipped
(39:57):
through the banister there and fell andit's like it's it's like four floors or
something down to the end, youknow, and so and and and uh
so that was a very very sadone of the really sad stories of and
and so when I saw that,I was like, I don't know,
that's who knows. You know,have you seen the ghost cat in the
(40:20):
lobby the Morris now, you know? No, I you know, the
only thing I've ever really as faras ghostly encounters is I was staying in
one of the rooms and one ofthe lights just clicked off, like it
was it was kind of the strangestthing. A light just went off,
and that really like I was like, whoa, you know, really kind
(40:40):
of like I heard a click andall of a sudden, my lamp just
clicked right off, and it waslike the room was dark and I'm just
in darkness, and I was like, whoa, what's going on? You
know. That was a very strange, kind of unnerving. And then the
next morning the alarm went off andI never even set the alarm, so
that that's kind of a weird Idon't I don't know, you know,
(41:04):
I don't know if somebody had saidit before, who knows, But who
knows. It was just a strange, kind of a strange thing, you
know. But yeah, there isthe cat that I saw. The cat.
Yeah, we visited there several yearsago. But the first time I
went there and we're sitting in thelobby and here comes this cat between us.
(41:29):
This just looks like a normal catwalks between us, gets up to
the glass doors that go outside andwalks through them. Oh wow. We're
both like, did you see that? And so I talked to the guy
at the desk and he says,oh, yeah, he does that all
the time. Okay, but Ido know I know a number of people
(41:50):
who have had very serious haunting experiencesthere. Oh wow. Yeah. And
then and if you do the tour, yeah, oh my gosh, oh
yeah, you know the upper levels, I saw an apparition. Several people
saw a ball of light come downthe staircase, and so then we took
(42:10):
video of it. But you know, we could see it with the naked
eye. I know other people.Lots of people have seen the cat.
No, other people have seen anapparition standing at the end of the hole,
which is pretty common. Did yourun across any stories about that,
Yeah, I actually have. I'vehad some people tell me they they saw
(42:34):
a woman walking down the hall,okay, and she was wearing period clothing
and appeared to be like a nurse, and she was pushing what would look
like a wheelchair. And I've heardsome people say a wheelchair, and I've
heard some people say, what looklike a gurney and then they'd see her
go around the corner and then theyhad followed, you know, or ask
her a question or something, andthen she'd just be gone because that this
(43:00):
but this is one of those thingsI always think, well, it was
probably a wheelchair because the thing isgurney's well you know, the thing is
that the elevator in the crest andit's not big enough for a gurney,
you know, so they would actuallytake the deceased and put them in a
(43:21):
wheelchair down to the morgue area.And so this is something that would happen
late at night, and uh so, who knows if this is what you
know, this is one of thosethings that would have been a regular sort
of occurrence, is seeing this,and so who knows if that's what you
know, seeing this this, youknow, this woman doing that. I'm
(43:44):
also seen or I've also talked withsome people that saw a group of people
in the in the ballroom, youknow, and they're where they have like
dinners and they have like dances stufflike that, and they were it was
actually one of the workers and theywere closing up, you know, and
(44:07):
it was like, hey, we'reclosing time, you know, and they
saw a group of people, youknow, that were just kind of there
and talking and chatting. But theythey kind of looked out of place as
far as their clothing goes, likeit looked like a different period or time
or something. But they didn't thinkmuch of it, and they just went
to go grab something. They cameback and there was no one there.
(44:30):
It was but there was a wholegroup of people and it was very strange.
And this is one of the workersthere that told me this when I
was over there doing the research,you know, on the book, and
I was like, oh, wow, that's that's interesting because usually it's it's
just like someone told me with thatnurse experience, It's like they tell me
that when they see this, theydon't really think anything of it because it
(44:52):
just seems almost they're not really lookingfor that, you know what I mean.
They just it's it's like they justsee someone and they're like they go
to ask them something or talk tothem, and then they're just there's no
one there. You know. It'slike because they just look like a normal
person, you know, they butthere's something that's a little out of doesn't
look right, you know, especiallywith a nurse, you would think that's
(45:14):
a little bit you know, butEureka Springs is very you know, you
do see a lot of people like, uh, you know, it's kind
of a very interesting town, youknow, and there's a lot of like
parties and people wear costumes and youknow how it's they call it like Halloween
City now because they have a lotof you know, festivities around the hall
(45:35):
around that time and very new age. Yeah, yeah, there's a very
new age kind of aspect to it, and so people do kind of there's
a costumed sort of you know aspectto the town. So if you see
someone that's costumed, you know,you probably just assume they're you know,
they're just doing a bid, orthey're you know, they're they work at
the hotel, or they're you know. But then but sometimes you know,
(45:59):
these people tell me, oh no, I was actually I worked here,
and then I'd see that, andI'd go to asking something and then I'd
turn a corner or something and thenjust gone, you know, it's like,
huh, that's odd. Yeah.Well, it's got a long history
and a lot of people went inand out of that place right over the
years. So it's no doubt thereare a lot of spirits. Oh sure
(46:21):
sure. Now, Sean, whatI find interesting about you, which is
kind of unusual, is that you'rean illustrator, and so books are very
illustrated. Yes, yes, quiteunusual mong writers. Usually as a publisher,
when somebody gives me a book,they'd give me a manuscript. And
there's no photos, there's nothing,so and I'm digging to try to find
(46:47):
stuff. But this is this isa lot of fun. What is this?
Is this a poster? Well,so I drew and painted this.
This is uh. I painted herfrom uh an early when you know how
I was talking about the Norman Bakerworked at the Bocal Button Company in the
late eighteen hundreds. This was aI drew this and painted this from an
(47:14):
advertisement for the Vocal Button Company.And that's what she was in this and
and I so all this is drawnand painted by by myself and the this
is their main street down here atthe bottom during that period of whenever Baker
was young. And then there there'sthat that steam ship up there is quite
(47:37):
common. This was on the onthe Mississippi, and so anyway, that's
what that's what that was. Sothat's and then this here is uh sort
of showing uh Baker's uh, hishis showmanship, you know, his his
vaudeville act was this very he hada lot of like Egyptian motifs that he
(48:01):
utilized throughout his He was fascinated withEgypt and ancient Egypt, and that sort
of worked its way into his hisshows, you know. And so I
kind of wove a little bit ofthis into the image, you know,
of his of his mentalist and soyeah. And what's interesting though, is
(48:27):
so that showmanship that his act iskind of what carried on throughout his entire
you know, when he got intothe you know, it was basically like
sleight of hand. You know,he's still kind of doing that show,
you know. Well, yeah,yeah, absolutely all you need is a
showman and a con artist in oneand you've got disaster. That's it.
(48:52):
Yeah, right, and so andthat's yeah exactly, that's what it spells,
disaster. And so I really lookat the book is kind of an
origin story to mention the ghosts.You know, yeah, very interesting,
very interesting, that's it. Well. The place uh definitely has an air
(49:15):
about it. It's fun to gotoo, I mean, the good food.
They've got a good restaurant. Ifyou really like a haunted place,
go stay there. Yeah, stayover night. Yeah, but also take
the tour. Definitely take the tour. Yeah for sure. It's especially fun
around Halloween. Oh yes, dothat definitely, definitely. You know,
(49:37):
that's where the ghost the ghost huntersthey had there. They were there and
they kind of caught like kind ofthe full apparition on one of their during
during the time they were there downin the down in the morg area.
Yeah. I haven't seen that one. Yeah, And that's that's kind of
you know, during that time,it really took off, like the note
(50:00):
variety and surrounding kind of the CrestnoHotel and uh. And then of course
once that once they made that grimdiscovery on the grounds in twenty nineteen with
those jars being unearthed, it wasso strange because they didn't just find a
few jars. They found thousands ofthese these jars you know, with these
(50:22):
specimens. Oh and because immediately itwas these when they found these jars,
they were like what is this andit was it was whisked off to like
state crime labs for analysis and thenand they were like, oh okay,
they then they realized, you know, it that it dated back to the
when it was the Baker Hospital,you know, and so it's still very
(50:45):
strange, very strange. Indeed,yeah here about things like that. Usually
they would be incinerated or something,right, right, I know what and
what's so odd is it's like youknow, he he also proclaimed like he
was a conundrum. Nothing he eversaid made it didn't really add up or
make much sense because he said thathis uh procedure, he used no knives,
(51:13):
no x rays, no radium oranything like that. But yet if
he didn't use like surgical instruments,why are they cutting into you know,
patients and putting specimens in jars?You know what I mean? It just
doesn't quite maybe after death? Wellsure, yeah, exactly, you know,
(51:35):
and why I mean he would heactually did have in his magazines.
He'd have like we have proof ofour success, and he would have these
on display some sometimes it was veryvery odd, very bizarre. Yeah.
Just did you did you ever getthe sense during your research that he may
have been involved in some type ofa cult and doing virtualistic sacrifices or something
(52:00):
similar. Well, I did hearor at least I talked to some people
that said that Baker may have hadpeople that worked for him with Nazi kind
of ties. This was during thejust right around the time of just before
World War two, you know.And uh and Nazi or Baker himself was
(52:27):
you know, part of his rhetoric, his very inflammatory rhetoric that he would
say on his radio station was verykind of antisemitic. And I don't know,
it makes you wonder if, youknow, if there was some of
that at play. I don't know, I mean, but that is a
really interesting sort of angle to gobecause I had researched as much as I
(52:50):
could, but I never really foundanything to substantiate it. So I never
really you know, I just Ijust think it was more kind of dim
of gaugury and just trying to getpeople to fall in line with his sort
of his cancer treatment, you know. And and uh did he claim to
cure other things too, like tuberculosis? He he he did. He claimed
(53:15):
to also cure like oh piles,what do they call that? Uh?
Uh? Trying to think some ofthe yeah he's TV and and uh cancer
and oh, humrines of all thingswas one of the things. That's what
(53:38):
it was. Yeah, and heand and uh some other other sort of
ailments you know, just uh butuh, very very strange. His his
big one though, of course,was cancer, which is strange because cancer,
you know, is there's so manydifferent types of cancer. You know,
it's like to say, you havethis, this cure all. Yeah,
(54:04):
they'll do anything. Well yeah,well exactly, And that was just
it. He was praying on peoplethat, you know, their last chance
of their last homes. And itturns out, I mean, his his
cancer serum was nothing more than glycerinecarbolic acid crushed up watermelon seeds in spring
(54:29):
water. And it's yes, thatdoes not cure cancer at all. And
it doesn't cure anything, doesn't cureanything. No, No, it's it's
you know, we are unfortunately ata time for the evening. This is
fascinating stuff. The book what followsis True Crescent Hotel. And so where
can people get that? You canfind it on my website Sean Fitzgibbon dot
(54:52):
com. It's in my store there. It's also available on Amazon, so
available both places there, And uh, that'd be that'd be the best way
to pick up the book, youknow, and uh and uh and I'll
be sure if you get it throughme, then I can be sure and
sign up for you. So okay, well I'm gonna I definitely want to
(55:15):
copy a sign copy because I'm veryinterested in that location. There is a
lot going on in that entire town, not to mention the Christian for sure.
Yes, yeah, well, thankyou for doing that. And I
look forward to your future books thatyou were telling me about earlier. Oh
yes, yes, with just keepin touch on that. And of course
(55:37):
you're also going to be at xCon in October, so yeah, we've
thirteenth Sean will be there with histable and signing books. Yes, I'll
look forward to it. All right, Well that's it for us tonight.
Everybody, thank you for joining me. We'll see you next week. Each
It's time for the annexed news newsextraterrestrials, time anomalies, dimension dimensions,
remote viewing, UFOs, UAPs andUSO's, ghostly encounters, abduptions, Bigfoot
and more, your end of theweek news source for everything everything unexplained.
(00:58):
Here is your home for the nextnews podcast, Margie K. Good evening,
everyone, Welcome to INEXT News.I'm your host, Margie K,
(01:19):
and we're here every Friday evening atsix pm Central seven pm Eastern. I
have a really good show for youthis evening. But first I want to
talk about something very strange. It'sbeen happening this past week. Started on
Tuesday, I begin to have severevertigo, and throughout the week I found
(01:42):
out that a number of people Iknow who are also sensitives are also experiencing
vertigo. So if you have hadthat issue as well, I would love
to hear from you, send mea note at MARGIEK eleven eleven at gmail
dot com. Would because I'm tryingto keep track of this and really trying
(02:04):
to figure out what the source isbecause I'm thinking it has something to do
with the electromagnetic field of the Earth. So in the meantime, we will
will plug on. Be sure alsothat you check out our conference page at
onex network dot com where you cansee what we're calling it is the Conference
(02:24):
Connection, and you'll see every conferencethat we can possibly find that's related to
paranormal UFOs, hauntings, cryptids,anything like that is listed there. So
if you are into conferences, eitheronline or in person, that's the place
to go. That's a good resourcefor it. My guest this evening is
(02:46):
Sean Fitzgibven. He's an artist andan author. He explores unusual, real
places and events through his work.He has an MFA in art and a
passion for making art and usual storytelling. He's a twenty twenty one Artist three
sixty recipient and a twenty twenty tworecipient of the Arkansas Arts Council Individual Artist
(03:09):
Fellowship Award for his Kirkus Starred reviewedgraphic nonfiction book What Follows is True Crescent
Hotel, and that is exactly whatwe're going to be speaking about tonight.
Welcome to the program. Sean,Hi, nice to be here, so
glad you could join me this evening. When I saw the book, he
(03:31):
wrote, my ears perked up becausethat is a place I've been to many
times, and it certainly has avery rich history. This is going to
be quite interesting this evening. I'mreally looking forward to it. How did
you get interested in this particular place? Well, I get asked that a
(03:54):
lot, in fact, and that'sa good question. I So, I'm
originally from southwest Missouri, about onehundred miles from from the Crescent Hotel from
Eureka Springs, and my parents,you know, in the summertime, they
(04:15):
would take take me and my sister, we'd go down. We just go,
you know, on these little visitsdown to Eureka, and I was
always just kind of fascinated by thattown. Uh, it's it's it's so
unusual, and it's it's beautiful,you know, it's just this beautiful Victorian
hamlet that's just sort of nestled deepin the ozarks, and it had and
(04:38):
it was just you know, Iremember my parents telling me that a couple
of things that, you know,before we went the first time, they
were like, well, it's it'sit's on the Ripley's believe it or not,
like Robert Ripley's list of nine mostUnusual places in the US. And
one reason for that is because uh, none of the roads in Eureka Springs
(05:03):
that none of the roads intersect.They all just kind of serpentine throughout.
You know. It's very strange,you know, it's very interesting. And
yeah, there's no right angles inthe town. There's no stop lights,
it's all and there's stairs that justgo everywhere, you know, just up
(05:26):
the sides of these hills, justyou know, because much of the downtown
is just sort of in this deepvalley, you know, with all these
limestone bluffs with Victorian homes just kindof you know, perched up on these
up on these bluffs and throughout thesecrevices, and it's just so unusual.
(05:48):
Like another thing that's so unusual isthat you have like the Basin Park Hotel
and it's the only it's a seventhstory hotel, but every floor is it
ground level. And that's because that'sbecause that's because it's it's right up against
(06:09):
a mountain basically, so every everyevery floor it's like you get off and
you're on a you know, you'reyou're at ground level. So that hotel
also has a history being haunted.I supported, yes, I've only stayed
there once, and I don't knowas much about that history because I haven't
(06:31):
really researched much, but it researchedit as much. But it is very
it is a spooky place to visit, mistay, you know, it really
is. It just has this andit does have a very kind of strange
history. But yeah, the thewhole town is just so unusual. And
(06:56):
I would have to say the thingthat just always just didn't kind of spoke
to me the most and just ina way kind of haunted me over the
years was the Crescent Hotel, youknow, because it sits at the high
point of town, and you know, like I was saying earlier, it's
just sort of perched like almost likeyour gargoyle. You know. It's like
(07:17):
it's it's almost like, you know, any of the any early like Gothic
story like the Haunting of Hill Houseby Shirley Jackson or Stephen Kings is shining.
It's like usually these houses that sitat the highest point of town,
you know, And so it reallyjust kind of you know, and then
(07:39):
it also has this very dark history, you know, because we would go
on the ghost tours, we didn'tlive, you know, we were only
like one hundred miles from there.So we would we wouldn't stay but the
evening, but the night, butwe would stay and go on the ghost
tour and then head back. ButI remember, yeah, just being here
(08:00):
these stories, you know about thisfraudulent medical practitioner, you know, this
guy bring into town claiming to havethe cure for cancer and uh, turning
it into this abnormal hospital. Andonce again, I mean echoes of like
you know, it's a hotel.It's like you get the like the shining,
(08:24):
you know, and then Mary Shelley'sFrankenstein, all these sort of Gothic
you know exactly like this image hereis like that's you can definitely probably see
my influence of like Gothic literature.I love. I love that sort of
sort of thing. So we've gotthe hotel in the background and this church
(08:46):
in the in the front. Whydon't we talk about that church a little
bit. Sure, Yeah, that'sSaint Elizabeth. Uh, it's a it's
an old Catholic church that actually wasbuilt not long after the Creston Hotel.
So the uh, well, letme back up a little bit before I
(09:07):
get into that. I can tellyou, you mind if I go into
the hotel and then kind of gointo the church a little bit whatever you'd
want. Well, because the Crescentwas built in eighteen eighty six and uh
and so it was this very exclusiveresort, you know, and only like
you know, very wealthy people wouldstay there, and they would travel from
(09:31):
all over to stay at this hotel. So it was like, you know,
think of the most exclusive, youknow, club in la It was
like that. It was. Itwas very You had to be on a
waiting list to get to stay atthe Creston Hotel. And it was decked
out in Edison lighting. It hadit had an intercom system and had elevators,
(09:52):
It had stables for riding horses,it had a bowling alley. Very
exclusive. And however, that thatdid not last very long because by let's
see, by about nineteen oh eight, the hotel had to well they had
(10:15):
to shut its doors part time becausethey just were having a hard time afford
it. They couldn't afford it basicallybecause of its location. Because the hotel
is well, if you know anythingabout Urga Springs, it's very difficult to
get to even today if it's ifthere's snow or anything, it's like forget
(10:35):
about it because all the roads gettingout there are just it's very windy and
it's beautiful, but it's there's nostraight line to get there, you know.
And so just imagine what that waslike, you know, in the
(10:56):
late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds. So, yeah, the horse and
buggy of slippery roads, steep incline, snow, no thank you. I
could see how they Now, maybein the spring and summer they probably did
okay, but I imagine in thewinter months it would have been bad.
Right. Oh yeah, Well,and that was the case. So during
(11:16):
the summer it opened up as theCrescent Hotel and Resort, and it's but
then what they did is in thewinter, uh, it became the Crescent
Conservatory for young women. It wasbasically a girls school, and it was
a very nice girls school and uhand uh it actually remained a girls school
(11:39):
until the nineteen twenties. It wasso it was a girls school in the
you know, in the winter,and then it was the hotel in the
summer. And it stayed that wayfor many years. And uh. And
they were able to sort of dothat, you know, kind of go
(12:01):
back and forth like that. Butthen you know, the Great Depression,
Great Depression came along the nineteen thirties, and sadly that ended both the hotel
and the girls' school around nineteen thirtyfour, and so then the hotel just
(12:22):
basically lay dormant for a few yearsuntil nineteen thirty seven. And that's when
a fellow by the name of NormanBaker comes driving into town. He's driving
a purple Cord roadster, very verynice automobile, you know, and it's
(12:50):
purple, which is very you know, you didn't see that in the nineteen
thirties. Every car was black,you know, so it was definitely a
custom job, you know. Andanyway, and he in this Norman Baker
wore these white suits with purple shirtsand lavender ties. That was what he
wore all the time, and hand had his purple car. And he
(13:13):
also claimed to have the cure forcancer. And he told the people of
Eureka, he said, you know, see that derelict, abandoned hotel up
on the hill. He's like,I'm gonna I'm going to open that hotel
up as I'm going to buy thathotel and open it up as the Baker
Hospital where I will cure cancer.And see, at this time, it's
(13:37):
like, well, you know thatthey weren't doing well. It's like,
well, the Great Depression was youknow, they took a hit, you
know, the their economy, andso they just you know, he that's
exactly what happened. He came inand turned it into the Baker Hospital,
(13:58):
and lots of pains came from allover many He had a lot of patients
from his hospital in Muscatine, Iowa, which is where he was from.
And I can, if you'd like, I could kind of talk a little
bit about Norman Baker. So wekind of have well, most definitely because
(14:22):
he's he's the darkest part of thisstory, I think, right, yeah,
yeah, we definitely want to hearabout him. Okay, So Norman
Baker, he was he was fromMuscatine, Iowa. And let's see,
he was he was trying to thinkright now, born in eighteen eighty five,
(14:46):
I believe is when he was born. I'm trying to think exactly,
but yeah, I was right aroundthat same time as the Crescent Hotel.
And anyway, he was the youngestof he had ten brothers and sisters,
and so he was a you know, basically a he was His father was
(15:11):
a machinist and his mother was ashe was a she wrote poetry for magazines
and so yeah, so kind ofinteresting, you know, he had a
mother who was very you know intoliterature, and then this father who was
a machinist. And so Norman Bakerends up dropping out of high school when
(15:33):
he's in the tenth grade and hegoes to work for his father as a
machinist. And he ends up gettinginto a contentious relationship with his with his
father, and he takes off andhe's like, I'm done with you know,
being a machinist here. And hegoes to work for the Vocal Button
(15:54):
Company. They basically, uh extractyou know that they created They made buttons
from pearl buttons from that were frommuscles that were excavated from the Mississippi River,
you know, and they Muscatine wason the Mississippi. It's a it's
(16:15):
a river town right there on theMississippi. And uh. And so anyway,
he works at the button company therefor a while and picking up a
lot of you know, he's reallykind of learning the craft of being a
machinist. And uh, however,once again he has this rather difficult kind
(16:37):
of relationship with with the management andhe ends up leaving there and going out
to become a vaudeville magician. Sohe goes on with the vaudeville circuit.
Yeah, it's kind of it's kindof interesting. So he's he's doing this,
like he becomes what's known as amentalist. Like he's doing and uh
(17:02):
so he's like doing these sort ofmental uh you know, telling people there
you know, he's uh mental Yeah, yeah, like hypgnosis sort of tricks
and things like that. He wouldalso do like levitation tricks and and uh
the kind of those kind of thosekind of mentalist tricks and uh so he's
(17:26):
basically kind of scamming people, youknow, because he's a lot of this
was just sort of telling people whatthey want to hear and making money off
it, and uh he was actuallypretty good at it. And he started
working with a woman, uh hecalled her Madam Tangly, and she was
his assistant and he would who hewould do a lot of these kind of
(17:48):
levitation tricks and a lot of andshe would also work with people in the
audience and he would read their mindsand do that sort of thing. They
had a they were married briefly andduring this time she uh so, her
father was a was a musician,and and while they were married, he
(18:11):
started working with her dad and uhmade these these organs, like it was
basically like a it was like apipe organ type thing called he called it
the caliophone. It was a calliopebasically like one of these things that you
you you find it like you know, like at baseball games you have like,
(18:36):
yeah, it's it was one ofthose, except at that time they
ran out, they ran off ofsteam. They were steam powered. And
he and so he created the firstair powered calliope. At least the the
patent is attributed to Norman Baker.There's some question as to whether or not
(18:57):
he stole the patent from her father. That's that's what so, I don't
know, I mean, and hewas brilliant, but he was a but
he also was you know, heconned people quite often. And uh So,
anyway, he starts from from goingegos from the vaudeville circuit to creating
(19:19):
these air calliopes that he called thecalliophone, and he ends up making millions
off that, and uh and sofrom that he his well basically his his
caliopy factory mysteriously burns down one night, and uh so he starts an arts
(19:40):
correspondence course course he can he hadno artistic training, and uh he tells
people he can teach him how toyou know, do this do art with
his through his correspondence course, andhe ends up making what would be the
equivalent of millions today off of thisis well, like he's, yeah,
it was really wild how he wasable to do all that. And so
(20:04):
then he gets his calliope, hiscaliophone business going again. And then at
this time he's also starting these likealmost like a Sears in Roebuck type magazine
where he's like he has like mailorder, like he's selling products you know,
(20:25):
like from just from like brooms toautomobile tires to like live canaries,
you name it. He was sellingit through his through his magazine called TNT
magazine and that's an acronym for theNaked Truth. And so he also at
(20:45):
this time started his own radio station. And this is in Muscatine, Iowa.
And so his his radio station iswhere he's basically you know, his
his his At first, it startsout where he's just kind of pushing his
peddling all his his you know,items that he sells through his catalog and
(21:11):
through his magazines. But then itstarts becoming his his rhetoric starts to become
more inflammatory, and he starts,like I said, early on, he
had these very contentious relationships with peoplethat he met, like or that he
worked with, and that that spreadthroughout his entire career. He made enemies
(21:33):
with people throughout the city of Muscatine. Everybody. Yeah, he really was.
Yeah, and and uh. Andone of the groups that he really
was making enemies with was the AmericanMedical Association because yeah, it's very strange.
And also the Federal Radio Commission,the or the Federal yeah Communications Commission,
(21:59):
the FC. See, you know, because his radio station, he
kept amping up the the wattage,like the you know of his radio beyond
the regular you know. Yeah,and so you could hear his radio station
clear out and like from in Honolulu, you know, from like Muscatine,
(22:22):
and it was it was crazy,and you could hear it way up in
Canada and down in Mexico. Andbecause you know that the Federal Radio Commission
would come along and then he wouldlike once again, his radio station was
at the highest point of town inMuscatine. Just like when he would later
you know, take over the Crescent. It was at the highest point of
town, and so he was alwaysable to kind of see whenever people were
(22:45):
coming around. He could always turnthe dials down, you know, but
they knew what he they were onto, what he was up to,
what he was doing, you know, like I said he was. He
was always in litigations with like theradio commit as well as the American Medical
Association because he started calling them likethe uh oh, like the American meat
(23:08):
Cutters Association because he he he heardabout a a this this this so called
doctor in Kansas City, Missouri whoclaimed to have the cure for cancer.
Okay, and so uh this guybasically you know, said he was caring
(23:30):
cancer, and so Norman wanted tohave him on his radio show and and
and also promote this in his magazine. So he basically has him on there
and then Baker's like, you knowwhat, I'm this works for me,
and so he basically he steals thisguy's cancer serum, you know, his
and uh and then so he immediatelyis like, I have the cure for
(23:53):
cancer. And then to prove it, He's like I'm going to have five
test patients on my on my showand on and on the in my magazine.
And uh so he has these fiveterminally ill patients, you know,
and he puts this in his,uh The Naked Truth TNT magazine and he
(24:18):
says, you know, all threeof these are, all five of these
patients, I'm going to cure allfive of them. And this is like,
okay. So this is around thefirst of the year, and then
it's like by May of that year, every five all five of them are
dead. And uh but so whatdoes Norman Baker do. He reprints that
(24:41):
same magazine three different times without changinga single word, and then he starts
his first cancer hospital saying he cancure cancer and and that's in Mescatine,
Iowa. And so yeah, thisis definitely a bad guy. Yeah.
Yeah, he knows that this isnot true, and he's getting ready to
(25:03):
start a new hospital exactly. Andso that and I know that some people
throughout the years have told me,no, I think he was really doing
some good, but you really can't. If you look at that, you
can really see where no, hewas he truly knew what he was doing
that he or he knew that hisYou know, his formula did not cure
(25:26):
cancer, and well we'll have tolet's pick up on that and find out
more about him and what he didwith that hotel. After these few messages
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Fine the Hopewell Farm link and couponcode on the Unexed Network website at unexnetwork
dot com. That's unexnetwork dot com. And we're back with the next news.
I'm your host, margiek and myguest this evening is Sean Fitzgibbon.
He is the author of this book. It's called What follows is True Crescent
(27:52):
Hotel. And there's a lot aboutthis hotel. So in the next twenty
minutes, John, we've got toget it in here. What is the
story Okay, Yeah, Well,so basically, let me tell you Norman
Baker then gets kicked out of Muscatineand what's he ended up doing. He
(28:15):
goes down to Mexico and starts upa hospital there briefly, you know,
and then and then then he endsup in He works his way up to
back into the States and works hisway into Arkansas and sets up shop at
the Crescent Hotel basically and in nineteenthirty seven. So that kind of brings
(28:37):
us back to where I was tellingyou, you know, where he comes
to town, you know, claimingto have the cure for cancer. And
so he opens it up as aBaker hospital and it's open for two years
until his arrest in nineteen thirty nine. And yeah, and it was a
very strange two years. He tookthis beautiful Victorian, you know, this
(29:00):
beautiful hotel and and turned it intothis uh. He painted it purple throughout
the He tore out the the beautifuluh front part of the you know,
the the uh, the front partof the hotel. The well, he
tore out the ballu straight like thefront porches, you know, these wood
(29:23):
beautiful wooden porches that were like layeredporches, and then he uh he put
in concrete porches and took the outthe wood that that kind of ruined the
Victorian looked to the to the hotel. He did that so it would support
all the patients being wheeled out ontothe uh you know, out on onto
(29:45):
the porches. So it was likea stack, you know at the front
of the hotel has the different levels. You know, that was originally if
you look at the old photos thosethat that front portion of the hotel was
wood. And so he kind ofhe so he basically ruined the the Victorian
charm of the hotel, you know, and from that angle. And then
(30:10):
he also you know, slathered paintwhat you know, purple paint and orange
orange and purple gold, this sortof art deco uh theme throughout it was
very very angular. Yeah, itwas crazy. And you put all his
propaganda posters all over the hotel anduh and uh and and so anyway,
(30:34):
he oh, he also had abulletproof he had uh, bullet proof glass
like around his his his his deskin his office. And he also wore
bulletproof vests around because and he carrieda gun on him at all times because
(30:56):
he was extremely paranoid, you know, very well, rightfully. So,
I mean he was a pretty paranoidguy, you know, because you know,
he knew it was only a matterof time before it was probably gonna
you know, things were going tocatch up to him, you know.
But as the you know, likeI said, he wasn't carrying cancer,
(31:17):
and so as the body count wasrising, so we're federal law enforcement,
we're kind of moving in. Andlike I said, it was only two
years until his arrest. And andthat's what a lot of my book kind
of covers this very strange two years. And I also go over you know,
I also talk about a lot ofthe ghost you know, these sort
(31:38):
of things as well, all theghost encounters through I tell that through the
ghost tour because in the book,I'm going on the ghost tour. Now
that image you just put up rightthere was, yeah. This, So
in my book, I sort ofbookend this this story with there is these
(32:00):
two boys that snuck into the Crescentafter Norman Baker was arrested a couple of
years after that, so the hotelsat empty throughout all of World War two,
and I met a gentleman who hewas this older gentleman who when he
was a kid. He and afriend of his lived in Eureka, and
(32:21):
they snuck in there and they foundyou know what they what they found in
there was very very strange, youknow, some of the some of the
items they uncovered, and uh anduh, and it was a very very
spooky experience. And so I usedthat story that you know, his story,
you know, as like I said, as sort of a bookend and
(32:45):
uh, because yeah, it wasvery strange walking through this very you know,
this this abandoned place with these wheelchairsand and uh. And they also
found in the morgue area, theyfound these jars are full of well basically
huven remains, you know, it'sbasically full of like cancerous tumors and parts
(33:09):
like that, you know, verystrange, which would strangely be buried and
then unearthed about eighty years later intwenty nineteen on the grounds of the Crescent
Hotel. Yeah. I don't know, Yeah, I don't know if you
were aware of this, but wellI knew about the jar story because it
(33:30):
took it. Yeah sure, Andoh boy is it creepy in that morgue.
Oh yeah, And those were thosewere the jars that he found.
Those very jars and so I wasactually kind of wrapping my book up around
twenty nineteen, and that's that storymade national news, you know. And
(33:52):
yeah, his his Yeah, somebodywho's just saying his office is in the
gift shop in the hotel. Yeah, it is part or his well his
uh yeah, that's where his officewas. And then his desk is in
the front lobby there or part ofhis desk. I didn't like to feelated
that desk, I know. Yeah, it's very dark energy round. Oh
yeah, yeah, it's very verystrange, very strange. So what was
(34:15):
he doing with all of these peoplein the hotel that was supposedly curing of
cancer? What was their ultimate end? Well, he had a certain section
of the hotel that was designated forthe more advanced patients, you know,
and it was and it was moreof a where he was kind of a
(34:39):
sealed off section where people weren't reallyallowed to go except for the you know,
the well medical staff you know.And uh and however, you know,
most of these people, you know, like some of the people didn't
even have cancer, you know,they they were undie they were misdiagnosed,
(35:02):
you know, because he had somepeople that were miraculously cured. Well they
never had cancer, you know inthe first place. And so he also
had some people there that were justplaying the part of having cancer, you
know, and so they would beout walking the grounds and walking around the
town because that was the way hepromoted his hotel or his his hospital as
(35:25):
being this sort of friendly place whereyou could just come and and bring your
fish and tackle and just you knowhow it's just a just a it's like
a big house for a big family. You know. We're just one big
family, you know. And sobut then you know, some of these
(35:46):
people were, you know, likehe was taking some of the people's letters
and kind of stockpiling some of theseletters that they were writing to their families,
and and he would send these outafter they would die, and he
would start sending them out where they'dbe saying, you know, please send
some money or something like that.You know, so he was like collecting
(36:06):
money after they had died, andthen later he would send out a regrets
letter saying, oh, they didn'tmake it, you know. Or but
he also was very like anytime peoplegot we're in like the more advanced stages.
A lot of times he would havethem. He would he would have
them leave like they would be youknow, taken away from them from the
(36:29):
hospital, you know, and theysome of these people would die like on
their way, like on a trainleaving Eureka Springs, you know, because
it was bad for business, youknow, having having people die, and
and a lot of times late atnight, you know, they I talked
to some people that would spoke oflike you know, these parades of Hearses
(36:52):
going down the hill late at nightbecause he he would have you know that
that sort of thing happened, youknow, after or in the late hours,
you know, like they getting ridof bodies and stuff like that.
And so did they have services atthis church? Yeah, there there were
services at that church. In fact, one of the there was one of
(37:15):
the patients was a priest. Uhand I actually and he actually died there
and I and he's in my book. I actually I found this information about
this Catholic priest that was there andso and so yeah, he was,
he's in my book. And theybut they did, they did have services
(37:36):
at the church Saint Elizabeth. Andand in fact, that's I'm kind of
show that in my book because itreally is it it's pretty perfect because it's
it's basically right at the base ofthe hotel. You can if you stay
at the hotel, you can justwalk just a short ways down the hill
(37:57):
to the to the church. Likeit's right there. You know, It's
just you can see it in thatpicture I drew. It's just right there.
What about some of the hauntings thatthat are going on there? You
just sent me this photo I did. Yeah, and so you know this
is a very spooky image right here. Because okay, so I was actually
(38:19):
a gentleman gave me this photo orhe like, he sent it to me.
One day. It was like,I actually had a guy. It
was a guy over at our houseI lived. I'm in Fayetteville, but
he was staying. He was hewas a repairman. He was actually doing
work on our on our washer anddryer, and and uh he saw my
book there and I was like,oh, yeah, I did this book
about the Creston Hotel and he wasand so he started telling me the story.
(38:44):
He's like, well, you know, it's strange. When I was
staying at the crest And Hotel,I was, you know, taking these
pictures. And uh, later Ilooked at the pictures and he's like and
I saw what he made my youknow, hair stand up on it,
and it was this little girl andand I was like, oh really and
uh and he showed me the pictureand I this was I've seen a lot
(39:07):
of photos, you know, fromthe Crescent and uh A lot of times
it's like, well, it's it'skind of hard to make out, you
know, like sometimes you can kindof see like a form. But this
is one that I was like,wow, that is that is very eerie.
And uh yeah, clearly it's clearlya little girl, okay. And
(39:30):
so what's interesting is so when itwas the Baker Hospital, there was a
little girl who tragically died there.She was the she was the daughter of
one of the nurses at the hotel, and she was playing around on the
third floor on the top floor thereand uh and tried and sadly she slipped
(39:57):
through the banister there and fell andit's like it's it's like four floors or
something down to the end, youknow, and so and and and uh
so that was a very very sadone of the really sad stories of and
and so when I saw that,I was like, I don't know,
that's who knows. You know,have you seen the ghost cat in the
(40:20):
lobby the Morris now, you know? No, I you know, the
only thing I've ever really as faras ghostly encounters is I was staying in
one of the rooms and one ofthe lights just clicked off, like it
was it was kind of the strangestthing. A light just went off,
and that really like I was like, whoa, you know, really kind
(40:40):
of like I heard a click andall of a sudden, my lamp just
clicked right off, and it waslike the room was dark and I'm just
in darkness, and I was like, whoa, what's going on? You
know. That was a very strange, kind of unnerving. And then the
next morning the alarm went off andI never even set the alarm, so
that that's kind of a weird Idon't I don't know, you know,
(41:04):
I don't know if somebody had saidit before, who knows, But who
knows. It was just a strange, kind of a strange thing, you
know. But yeah, there isthe cat that I saw. The cat.
Yeah, we visited there several yearsago. But the first time I
went there and we're sitting in thelobby and here comes this cat between us.
(41:29):
This just looks like a normal catwalks between us, gets up to
the glass doors that go outside andwalks through them. Oh wow. We're
both like, did you see that? And so I talked to the guy
at the desk and he says,oh, yeah, he does that all
the time. Okay, but Ido know I know a number of people
(41:50):
who have had very serious haunting experiencesthere. Oh wow. Yeah. And
then and if you do the tour, yeah, oh my gosh, oh
yeah, you know the upper levels, I saw an apparition. Several people
saw a ball of light come downthe staircase, and so then we took
(42:10):
video of it. But you know, we could see it with the naked
eye. I know other people.Lots of people have seen the cat.
No, other people have seen anapparition standing at the end of the hole,
which is pretty common. Did yourun across any stories about that,
Yeah, I actually have. I'vehad some people tell me they they saw
(42:34):
a woman walking down the hall,okay, and she was wearing period clothing
and appeared to be like a nurse, and she was pushing what would look
like a wheelchair. And I've heardsome people say a wheelchair, and I've
heard some people say, what looklike a gurney and then they'd see her
go around the corner and then theyhad followed, you know, or ask
her a question or something, andthen she'd just be gone because that this
(43:00):
but this is one of those thingsI always think, well, it was
probably a wheelchair because the thing isgurney's well you know, the thing is
that the elevator in the crest andit's not big enough for a gurney,
you know, so they would actuallytake the deceased and put them in a
(43:21):
wheelchair down to the morgue area.And so this is something that would happen
late at night, and uh so, who knows if this is what you
know, this is one of thosethings that would have been a regular sort
of occurrence, is seeing this,and so who knows if that's what you
know, seeing this this, youknow, this woman doing that. I'm
(43:44):
also seen or I've also talked withsome people that saw a group of people
in the in the ballroom, youknow, and they're where they have like
dinners and they have like dances stufflike that, and they were it was
actually one of the workers and theywere closing up, you know, and
(44:07):
it was like, hey, we'reclosing time, you know, and they
saw a group of people, youknow, that were just kind of there
and talking and chatting. But theythey kind of looked out of place as
far as their clothing goes, likeit looked like a different period or time
or something. But they didn't thinkmuch of it, and they just went
to go grab something. They cameback and there was no one there.
(44:30):
It was but there was a wholegroup of people and it was very strange.
And this is one of the workersthere that told me this when I
was over there doing the research,you know, on the book, and
I was like, oh, wow, that's that's interesting because usually it's it's
just like someone told me with thatnurse experience, It's like they tell me
that when they see this, theydon't really think anything of it because it
(44:52):
just seems almost they're not really lookingfor that, you know what I mean.
They just it's it's like they justsee someone and they're like they go
to ask them something or talk tothem, and then they're just there's no
one there. You know. It'slike because they just look like a normal
person, you know, they butthere's something that's a little out of doesn't
look right, you know, especiallywith a nurse, you would think that's
(45:14):
a little bit you know, butEureka Springs is very you know, you
do see a lot of people like, uh, you know, it's kind
of a very interesting town, youknow, and there's a lot of like
parties and people wear costumes and youknow how it's they call it like Halloween
City now because they have a lotof you know, festivities around the hall
(45:35):
around that time and very new age. Yeah, yeah, there's a very
new age kind of aspect to it, and so people do kind of there's
a costumed sort of you know aspectto the town. So if you see
someone that's costumed, you know,you probably just assume they're you know,
they're just doing a bid, orthey're you know, they're they work at
the hotel, or they're you know. But then but sometimes you know,
(45:59):
these people tell me, oh no, I was actually I worked here,
and then I'd see that, andI'd go to asking something and then I'd
turn a corner or something and thenjust gone, you know, it's like,
huh, that's odd. Yeah.Well, it's got a long history
and a lot of people went inand out of that place right over the
years. So it's no doubt thereare a lot of spirits. Oh sure
(46:21):
sure. Now, Sean, whatI find interesting about you, which is
kind of unusual, is that you'rean illustrator, and so books are very
illustrated. Yes, yes, quiteunusual mong writers. Usually as a publisher,
when somebody gives me a book,they'd give me a manuscript. And
there's no photos, there's nothing,so and I'm digging to try to find
(46:47):
stuff. But this is this isa lot of fun. What is this?
Is this a poster? Well,so I drew and painted this.
This is uh. I painted herfrom uh an early when you know how
I was talking about the Norman Bakerworked at the Bocal Button Company in the
late eighteen hundreds. This was aI drew this and painted this from an
(47:14):
advertisement for the Vocal Button Company.And that's what she was in this and
and I so all this is drawnand painted by by myself and the this
is their main street down here atthe bottom during that period of whenever Baker
was young. And then there there'sthat that steam ship up there is quite
(47:37):
common. This was on the onthe Mississippi, and so anyway, that's
what that's what that was. Sothat's and then this here is uh sort
of showing uh Baker's uh, hishis showmanship, you know, his his
vaudeville act was this very he hada lot of like Egyptian motifs that he
(48:01):
utilized throughout his He was fascinated withEgypt and ancient Egypt, and that sort
of worked its way into his hisshows, you know. And so I
kind of wove a little bit ofthis into the image, you know,
of his of his mentalist and soyeah. And what's interesting though, is
(48:27):
so that showmanship that his act iskind of what carried on throughout his entire
you know, when he got intothe you know, it was basically like
sleight of hand. You know,he's still kind of doing that show,
you know. Well, yeah,yeah, absolutely all you need is a
showman and a con artist in oneand you've got disaster. That's it.
(48:52):
Yeah, right, and so andthat's yeah exactly, that's what it spells,
disaster. And so I really lookat the book is kind of an
origin story to mention the ghosts.You know, yeah, very interesting,
very interesting, that's it. Well. The place uh definitely has an air
(49:15):
about it. It's fun to gotoo, I mean, the good food.
They've got a good restaurant. Ifyou really like a haunted place,
go stay there. Yeah, stayover night. Yeah, but also take
the tour. Definitely take the tour. Yeah for sure. It's especially fun
around Halloween. Oh yes, dothat definitely, definitely. You know,
(49:37):
that's where the ghost the ghost huntersthey had there. They were there and
they kind of caught like kind ofthe full apparition on one of their during
during the time they were there downin the down in the morg area.
Yeah. I haven't seen that one. Yeah, And that's that's kind of
you know, during that time,it really took off, like the note
(50:00):
variety and surrounding kind of the CrestnoHotel and uh. And then of course
once that once they made that grimdiscovery on the grounds in twenty nineteen with
those jars being unearthed, it wasso strange because they didn't just find a
few jars. They found thousands ofthese these jars you know, with these
(50:22):
specimens. Oh and because immediately itwas these when they found these jars,
they were like what is this andit was it was whisked off to like
state crime labs for analysis and thenand they were like, oh okay,
they then they realized, you know, it that it dated back to the
when it was the Baker Hospital,you know, and so it's still very
(50:45):
strange, very strange. Indeed,yeah here about things like that. Usually
they would be incinerated or something,right, right, I know what and
what's so odd is it's like youknow, he he also proclaimed like he
was a conundrum. Nothing he eversaid made it didn't really add up or
make much sense because he said thathis uh procedure, he used no knives,
(51:13):
no x rays, no radium oranything like that. But yet if
he didn't use like surgical instruments,why are they cutting into you know,
patients and putting specimens in jars?You know what I mean? It just
doesn't quite maybe after death? Wellsure, yeah, exactly, you know,
(51:35):
and why I mean he would heactually did have in his magazines.
He'd have like we have proof ofour success, and he would have these
on display some sometimes it was veryvery odd, very bizarre. Yeah.
Just did you did you ever getthe sense during your research that he may
have been involved in some type ofa cult and doing virtualistic sacrifices or something
(52:00):
similar. Well, I did hearor at least I talked to some people
that said that Baker may have hadpeople that worked for him with Nazi kind
of ties. This was during thejust right around the time of just before
World War two, you know.And uh and Nazi or Baker himself was
(52:27):
you know, part of his rhetoric, his very inflammatory rhetoric that he would
say on his radio station was verykind of antisemitic. And I don't know,
it makes you wonder if, youknow, if there was some of
that at play. I don't know, I mean, but that is a
really interesting sort of angle to gobecause I had researched as much as I
(52:50):
could, but I never really foundanything to substantiate it. So I never
really you know, I just Ijust think it was more kind of dim
of gaugury and just trying to getpeople to fall in line with his sort
of his cancer treatment, you know. And and uh did he claim to
cure other things too, like tuberculosis? He he he did. He claimed
(53:15):
to also cure like oh piles,what do they call that? Uh?
Uh? Trying to think some ofthe yeah he's TV and and uh cancer
and oh, humrines of all thingswas one of the things. That's what
(53:38):
it was. Yeah, and heand and uh some other other sort of
ailments you know, just uh butuh, very very strange. His his
big one though, of course,was cancer, which is strange because cancer,
you know, is there's so manydifferent types of cancer. You know,
it's like to say, you havethis, this cure all. Yeah,
(54:04):
they'll do anything. Well yeah,well exactly, And that was just
it. He was praying on peoplethat, you know, their last chance
of their last homes. And itturns out, I mean, his his
cancer serum was nothing more than glycerinecarbolic acid crushed up watermelon seeds in spring
(54:29):
water. And it's yes, thatdoes not cure cancer at all. And
it doesn't cure anything, doesn't cureanything. No, No, it's it's
you know, we are unfortunately ata time for the evening. This is
fascinating stuff. The book what followsis True Crescent Hotel. And so where
can people get that? You canfind it on my website Sean Fitzgibbon dot
(54:52):
com. It's in my store there. It's also available on Amazon, so
available both places there, And uh, that'd be that'd be the best way
to pick up the book, youknow, and uh and uh and I'll
be sure if you get it throughme, then I can be sure and
sign up for you. So okay, well I'm gonna I definitely want to
(55:15):
copy a sign copy because I'm veryinterested in that location. There is a
lot going on in that entire town, not to mention the Christian for sure.
Yes, yeah, well, thankyou for doing that. And I
look forward to your future books thatyou were telling me about earlier. Oh
yes, yes, with just keepin touch on that. And of course
(55:37):
you're also going to be at xCon in October, so yeah, we've
thirteenth Sean will be there with histable and signing books. Yes, I'll
look forward to it. All right, Well that's it for us tonight.
Everybody, thank you for joining me. We'll see you next week. Each
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