Un-X News_ The Dreaded Drones and UFOs with Rich Hoffman!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's time for the unexed News News Extraterrestrials, time Anomalies,
dimension dimensions, remote viewing, UFOs, UAPs and USO's, ghostly Encounters, abductions, Bigfoot,
and more more, your end of the week news source

(00:48):
for everything everything unexplained. Here is your host for the
unex News podcast, Margie K.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Good evening everyone, where we're having some technical difficulties tonight.
Hopefully our guest is going to be able to actually
get in because his link is not working for some reason,
but I believe we'll get that straightened out. I do
want to remind you to subscribe to the unex network
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(01:37):
also subscribe to the unex Network at unexnetwork dot com
where you can get a free or a paid membership
and get a lot of perks, including our daily newsletter
that outlines all of our shows that are going to
be coming up every evening. All right, my guest tonight
is Rich Hoffman. Rich is an Army Information Technology IT

(02:02):
defense contractor with CHUGA Government Solutions. He's a senior systems
engineer analyst working in the US Army Material Command Headquarters
at Redstone Arsenal, Huntsville, Alabama. He serves on the executive
board officer for the Scientific Coalition of UAP Studies, which

(02:22):
he founded. He is also a board advisor for the
Society for UAP Studies and an advisor for UAP Expeditions.
In twenty twenty two, Rich represented the USA and a
NATO Spased Domain conference presenting the UAP threat along with
Ryan Graves. In twenty twenty four, Rich met in DC

(02:45):
along with other thought leaders to discuss the Road to disclosure.
Welcome to the program, Rich Hoffman.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Hi, Margie, It's good to be back on with you again.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yes, so glad to see you again. It's been quite
a while and we have some things to catch up on.
I know there's been a lot going on with UAPs
and drones, just craziness. I've noticed an uptick in UAP sidings.
As a member of move On in a field investigator

(03:18):
for move On, I see this trend and it's everywhere,
It's not just in one specific place. And then we
also have the drones, which have not left since September.
They're still around and I'm still getting a lot of reports.
So I'd really like to get your take on all
of that. What in the world is going on?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, I guess we can tackle the drones first, you know,
first not let me, let me characterize it this way
that I'm a ufologist, not a droneologist. But anyway, I'm
you know, I'm one of these people that, as you
very well know, Margie, that the vast majority of cases
we get are often explained as natural pheno or misidentifications

(04:01):
of some sort. Right. So, I mean, as far as
I'm concerned, you know, my my UFO research and stuff
like that. You know, we get called up about, you know,
everything from planets to meteors to anything that that's up
in the sky is often a UFO, right, So I mean,
let me put it to you that way, that that

(04:22):
there's a lot of misidentifications even now, even with the
drone thing going on. But let's let's talk about it
for a second. I'm I'm a drone pilot. I'm aware
I've had had a drone that I fly at least
for like the last five six years or so. And
you know, originally, you know, you had to register your

(04:42):
drone with the FAA and let them know, and then
they would give you a little tag that you could
put on your drone and then that would identify you
as being a legal pilot. If you would, you can fly,
and you know, then they have the various you know,
documents that they came up with to give us guidance
because suddenly that they knew that drones were going to

(05:03):
be up on the uptick, right, so a lot of
people began buying drones. In fact, there's a report that
says over a million drones in the United States alone. Right,
So now you've got a million drones, right, and then
that's what you know about. But then there's also people
building drones. There's also there are very specialized drones, like,

(05:27):
for example, you've got drones for cinematography purposes that are
eight feet in diameter. Big, you know, you've got drones.
You have drones for other applications like agriculture. You've got
drones for being able to use light art to be
able to go above cloud layers. You've got drones that
are just police have drones. I mean, there's a whole

(05:50):
host of drones that are out there. And of course
I work with the military and of course they have
plenty of drones. So there's drones literally everywhere, and the
United States population needs to get used to it because
they're not used to it. And let me amplify the
fact that it's only within the last year or so

(06:13):
that you had the FAA now letting us fly them
at night.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Oh really, now what you have?

Speaker 3 (06:22):
But yeah, originally you had to have the drone within
thirty minutes after sundown. It had to be out of
the sky unless you had authorization to have your drone up,
like you know, you might have some sort of an
authorities have. I would have to coordinate with the local
control tower, the FAA people and say, hey, I'm I'm
gonna fly my drone. Can I'm letting you know in

(06:43):
advance and everything else and that type of thing.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Right.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
So that's what the way it all came about is
that suddenly now you have people that are allowed to
fly their drones at night that are now being seen
in the skies by the general public and are very
alarming to them because they're not used to seeing that,

(07:06):
right exactly. And so let me take this one step further.
In nineteen sixty five and in nineteen seventy three, those
are two flap years that we had with drown with UAP, Right,
So and you know about flaps. I mean it's a
high concentration of sightings in a given area within a

(07:26):
period of short time. Right. So, and the way many
times when I investigated in the UAP drone or flap periods,
you had a situation where you might have had a
legitimate sighting up front. It then gets covered on the
evening news and then everybody is hearing about this, and

(07:48):
now they're outside seeing objects that are moving around the
sky and now wanting to call them UAP. So let's
say you have aircraft in the area that they're not
familiar with and they don't spend their time looking, or
you might have even had the planet Venus. Believe it
or not, I had thirty people out looking at the
planet Venus and I had to go out and tell them,
I'm sorry, you're looking at the planet Venus.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, we had the same thing.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
So the problem gets the fact that the news media
brought it on, and then what happens. All these different
people around the city are all reporting, Oh, I see
one too, I see one too. So now you have
a sudden burst of reports and then that becomes Now,
let's let's talk with the mayor, because now I'm quite

(08:32):
concerned about the UAPs that are up in the sky
or UFOs at the time, you know, up in the sky.
And and so suddenly we have a plethora of these things, right,
it's going on. And then so what you have is
that now they're all speculating because they don't know about
UFOs or you know, anything like that, so they're speculating
them and saying, well, it's somebody at the base, or
it's somebody there, this is what it is. And we

(08:54):
see the same thing with this whole activity that was
going on up in the northeast quadrant. Right. So suddenly
you have, you know, drones that are illegally allowed to
fly in the air that are being reported. Followed by
the fact that you now have the police sending up
their drones, you also have other pilots of drones wanting

(09:18):
to send their drones to go look for the other drones.
And so now you've got a ton of drones up
in the air seen by the general citizens. And let
me clarify one other thing. If I put my drone
up right now in my neighborhood, my one drone and
I fled around, and thirty people all decide to report

(09:39):
their sightings of drone. So now does that mean that
the general public that we have thirty drones or one? Right?
And so my point there is that all around the
perimeter of people seeing these drones, they're all reporting it.
So now you have suddenly this large volume of reports

(10:02):
that are coming in based on maybe seeing one or
two drones. The other the problem that you have with
the whole drone thing up in the northeast quadrant is
that you you had you had drones that were being well,
then let me let me ask them one step further.

(10:22):
Suddenly planes and helicopters all suddenly became drones, and we
had a large number of incidents where people were doing
stupid stuff, illegal stuff like taking their laser pointers and
now pointing it and blinding the pilots. That's against the wall,

(10:43):
it is. And so now you've got that idiocy going
on on top of it. Now in the meantime, you've
got the news media went out to talk politicians who
don't you know, don't know anything about you a drones
or the FAA rules or anything that's going on, and
they're all speculating about, well, that's probably Iranians or it's

(11:06):
this or it's that. So the next thing you know
is you got speculation going on and everybody's getting wound
up from a hysterical standpoint with all the wonderful drone
activity that's going on. Let's add one thing onto that,
and that is that, because you've got drones now looking
for drones and all these other aircraft, you also have

(11:28):
a situation where, again all these misidentifications of things that
are going on, you might have had some actual you know,
you know, enemy of ours, let's put it that way,
that is now using it that kind of hysteria to
fly drones and do what they want to do with
dirty work and take advantage of that. So you don't know,

(11:52):
and then you have politicians speculating about what it is
not knowing. And then another thing I'll point out to you, Margie,
you and you'll know what I'm talking about. People, when
you look at something in the sky, you have no
way of knowing the distance or the size, right, And
so you had reports on the media saying, oh, it

(12:13):
was as big as a car. Okay, well, how did
you know that? You know how far away was it?
Did you know the angular size to that thing? Do
you know the distance how did you know or come
up with that? And it's a lot of it's speculation
because people are generally inaccurate about determining the size or
anything like that, or even the distance in the nighttime sky.

(12:38):
All right, yeah, I can tell you right now, I'm
on the approach to Huntsville Airport right over here, and
I can look out my window and I can look
at and see an object that's moving across the sky
that looks like it could be a drone if it
were up close. It's an aircraft going in. You know,
it's a you know Boeing seventy seven seven seven, you know,
so it's like no, I mean at a distance it looks,

(12:59):
you know, quite a bit different. But again errors on
the part of decisions and something. So you had that reported.
All these things are huge, and a lot of people
don't know about the sizes that these things can come
in or the speeds that they can fly. They've now
got drones that are being built that are believe it
or not, that we're going to We had the battery

(13:21):
operated ones, followed by after the you know, the small ones.
You know, they're out there. Now we've got fuel cells
for them. They can actually operate and stay up in
the air for a long long time. And then guess what,
there's even a hybrid where it use it. It uses
like your hybrid vehicles. It uses it can use the battery,
and it can also use fuel so it can stay
up even longer. Now we're even getting into now drones

(13:47):
that are potentially using hydrogen fuel cells. So I mean,
you're starting to get more and more in terms of
the development of these things all across the world. Everywhere. Yeah, yeah,
and you know where you're at, people can fly their
drones at night. In every part of the United States,

(14:07):
you can fly them at night. So guess what every
state is going to be reporting that they are seeing drones.
And the other thing that I've noticed is that there's
a lot of these things were drones. You'll see them
especially around fireworks displays. Every time you go to a
firework display, boom, there's a drone up there that's moving

(14:28):
on several of them maybe you know, or there might
be some sort of events going on or something of
that nature. So we as ufologists are getting this whole
plethora of these reports that are really drones. But you know,
to the general public, they're not as informed about it,
and they think that it might be a UFO and
it's not. And the other part of it is you

(14:51):
do have our enemy in the that are also flying
drones and are actually looking at military base and going
on our perimeters of our military bases, which has now
become it's become a concern for the military from the
concern of you know, our perimeters and our safety on

(15:11):
the on the basis and stuff like that. So like you,
if you go over to my base here, you'll see
drone activity is not allowed. Signs everywhere you can't fly
your drone. But let me also point out to you
that if I went over right now and I flew
my drone over there before anybody would probably see it,
know it, and report it, I could have done the

(15:32):
dirty work that I wanted to do. And then the
other part of that is that you also have drones
that are now not corresponding to the rules of building
drones at a certain frequency. They're supposed to fly with
a certain frequency, and guess what they're they're at a
different frequency. And so even our methods of knocking them

(15:54):
out of the sky drone using a drone buster, which
we're putting out for the DODH it can knock them
out of the sky if it's at a different frequency.
So now we're making adjustments to that even to be
able to knock them out with other kinds of means.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
So what was the final consensus on all these swarms
of drones that were lining up near air bases just
on the outside perimeter of it? Was there a final decision?

Speaker 3 (16:22):
No? And here's the problem with that is that if
I tell you that there were drones over the base,
that's one thing. If I told you that they were
near the base, how far away were they? And there's
a certain distance you're supposed to be away where you

(16:44):
can fly a drone. So I saw one case where
it was right on the edge of where the allowable
space was, and it turned out was over a wildlife
area and this is where people could legitimately go fly
their drones over a marshy area where they wouldn't be
over the public. But it happened to be near Langley

(17:06):
mm hmm. So now is you know, is it over
the base, is it around the base, or is it
beyond the base? And words matter, and so a lot
of people are conflating it from the standpoint that they're
using words that it was over the base when it wasn't,
and so that like the ones in Langley, not the

(17:26):
ones in December, but ones a few months later, we're
actually out where they're supposed to be flying their drones
at night. Okay, So what I'm trying to say is
that that we're sensitive debt, and now there's a push
to be able to give all the and not all
of the bases had these drone buster kinds of things

(17:47):
that we're implementing. So now we're making sure that they
all do as a routine and that we are able
to now, you know, protect our critical infrastructure. And it's
not just you know, at our place, it's what about
the nuclear facilities we have, what about some of the
other very sensitive areas around the country that we also

(18:08):
need to make sure we've got drone busters to protect
ourselves in case the enemy does want to come in
and do damage to us. And you know, as well
as I do, we're equipping drones now with missiles and
everything else and even using them over in theater. And
they even the drones themselves are weapons, you know, So
you've got you've got a problem in that regard, and

(18:30):
we have to be really very cautious about that.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I had three cases that were rural areas outside the
Greater Kansas City area, so several miles out. Nothing is
going on out there, there was no no sensitive base
is nothing. And in uh three, all three cases they
were large drones. But in one this guy got video

(18:56):
of a drone on his property in front of that
a tree line and in front of a particular large tree,
so we could gauge the size of the drone and
the height off of the ground and the distance from
the person. And so this thing was very large. It

(19:19):
was probably sixteen feet wide, maybe half again as tall,
and it had a very low hum sound to it,
but it was definitely a sound was coming from it.
And it had four lights on the bottom, so I'm
thinking drone, I'm not thinking UFO. And it hung and

(19:45):
hung out there for several minutes and then just slowly
moved away, and he was standing there filming the whole thing. Supposedly,
I would imagine that whoever was operating the drone, there
was a camera on it. He was able to see
this guy and he didn't seem phased by it. What
in the world does anybody, have you know what business

(20:08):
do they have with this huge drone that's very expensive
by the way, Yeah, I looked up. The prices on
these things is just astronomical. Well, and I mean, you
know what would be a reason for someone to be
on a rural property like that in the middle of nowhere?

Speaker 3 (20:24):
So let me let me clarify that for you, because
if you take a look. For example, if I want
to when I look at, I want to fly my drone.
I have an airport here, I've got a military base
here right around where I live. Right I've got the
approach for all of the aircraft coming into Huntsville. If
you look at and we all have an app that

(20:44):
when we fly our drones we have to check. It's
called before you fly or something like that. You click
on it and you make sure you're out of range
of a circle, and it tells you how high you're
allowed to fly your drone. So in my case, my
house is about five miles away from the airport, and
within that five mile radius, I can't fly my drone

(21:07):
here without letting the airport know that I'm flying it
at all. So where do I go? Most people will
go out like I was telling you before they go
to a wildlife range, or they go to rural areas
or away from where there's any kind of like military
base or place, because they're if I look at my
app it says I'm allowed to fly it, and I

(21:30):
can go up to four hundred feet and I could
be in complete compliance with the FAA rules for my
flying drones. So a lot of people are going into
the rural areas because they can't fly them in the cities.
Nobody around here in the city of Huntsville is allowed
to fly it anywhere around the city of Huntsville.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
What are they allowed to fly over anyone's property? Yes, okay,
so people that think that their property is theirs and
is their private land, anybody can fly over at any time.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
That is correct. And and so ultimately you have a
situation where because of these the way that the rules are.
And I encourage people to go up and look at
the FAA rules on drones and as small drones and
small pilot of drones, but they'll see the same thing.
If you go up to the a FAA site on
that you'll find out no, you're you're able to fly

(22:27):
You know these things pretty much everywhere. Now there's a lot.
And here's another thing. Let me take one other step.
They're starting to build drones that now have for example,
they're already built with some sort of little they call
it remote ID. So if you think about like the
ADSB we have on aircraft, where it tells us that

(22:50):
that is going along, we can look at an app
and we can see where it's at. Right, the flight
aware or flight radar tells us about that aircraft that's
up there. All right, this is not a DSB, right,
but this is this is a remote ID, and the
remote ID has on it and it's now built into
the commercially sold drones where you can put that on it.

(23:14):
And now if an app I can go to and
I would be able to say that rich Hoffman is
flying a drone over at this area and it can
be seen by the app.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Right, Okay, so so now law enforcement has this app then.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, yeah, so so botto they should anyway, I don't
know how much that they're aware of that, but anyway,
now they have the remote ID. So that so now
I have an older drone if I don't install that
remote ID capability on my drone and I'm flying it.
I'm not going to be detected by that app right, Okay,

(23:54):
So what I'm telling to tell you is that not
everybody is in compliance with the FAA rules, especially if
they're you know. And then then the other part of
the problem is that you have you're allowed to fly
a drone thirteen years and above. Do you believe a
thirteen year old is necessarily going to know FAA and
keep up with FAA rules. No, they got a drone

(24:15):
for Christmas and they want to now go fly it,
and they're gonna fly it anywhere. Right, Oh yeah, So
now you got law breakers going on everywhere, and you
have oh, let's just go down there to the military
base and fly around and check it out. So you
actually have some of those kids probably wanting to do
that too, right, oh yeah. So it's a total mess
and it you know, and we struggle to be able

(24:36):
to And then a lot of the drone pilots do
not want to put that remote ID on it because
guess why if I'm flying over your house and you
find out who I am and you know where.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
I live, Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
I mean I could have people can So now you
have this pushback by drone pilots to even begin to
put the remote ID device on their.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Drone exactly exactly, All right, well we had We're up
on a break three minutes. We'll be right back after this,
It's time.

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Speaker 2 (27:47):
Welcome back, you're listening to unex News. I'm your host,
Margie Kay, and we are talking with Rich Hoffman this
evening about drones and UFOs and the latest, and you
are a wealth of inform about drones. Rich I would say,
you are a specialist in the field with all of
this knowledge that you've got.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Well, Marjorie, you know you know as well as I do.
I mean to me, it's like when you investigate, you
a UFO sightings and stuff like that, you have to
really know what's up there that the people misidentified or
could be misidentified. So most of my life I've studied
the ifos. If you would to know what up there, like,
what are the what are the advancements and aircraft you've

(28:27):
got going on right now? What do they look like?
When the drones came on, I said, well, I need
to know about the drones, you know, to be able
to know how to because people are misidentifying them. And
then I started like looking into Chinese lenterns, you know,
when people were those Okay, well what that's you know?
You have to so you really have to do your
homework as an investigator to look at what all is

(28:49):
up there that people get confused often about, and and
to know and separate that when you're going in and
looking at various hypotheses for explaining it and say what
natural hypotheses that are out there. And so, I mean,
my job is to get to know about drones because
guess what, people are reporting them as UFOs and so
they are. I spent a lot of time on that.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
So we've got a question from Carl, what about the
drones that were observed spraying?

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Well, I mean, I don't know there are drones that
can spray. I mean, they're using them for crop dusting
and various other things right now, But I sprang. And
then the other problem with that is that I don't
know whether you know, these hangs have some sort of
like maybe a jet exhaust or something like that that

(29:39):
they're using. Some of the some of the types of
remote drones that look like aircraft more like than the
quad cotters, may have a trail that follow them with
some smoke or something of that nature. But I'm not
aware of you know, myself, I've not looked into cases
of drones that are emitting some sort of spraying other

(30:01):
than the fact that I am aware that they do
use them to spray things, you know, over crops or
over certain areas and stuff like that. So That's about
all I can say about it. Really, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
And we've got a question from Donna. Are drones allowed
to fly over residents and are they liable for damage
to property for mishaps?

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Well, that's a good question, you know, so yes, there
are a lot of flyover residences. I mean, again, you
don't own the air space above you. You do you
complain about the aircraft that flew over your you know,
over your head? And the answer is like probably not.
So again, the airspace is allowed to be flown by drones.

(30:46):
There's no restrictions on them. And then as far as
property damage is concerned, I think that that's part of
why they wanted to put the remote ID on them,
because now they would be able to track if there's
any instance like that that happened from a drone, and yeah,
the pilot should be held liable for any damage paused

(31:08):
by their drone, you know, to your property. I will
also point out that we've had a situation like even
in Florida over the Christmas time, just prior to Christmas,
there was a drone show and during that drone show,
suddenly a whole bunch of the drones were falling out

(31:28):
of their pattern and came crashing down. And one boy
was actually hit by the propeller from one of the
drones and ended up he had to have heart surgery
because it actually hit him in the chest and the
propeller from that thing caused damage to him. So and
that was like, I think a like seven year old
boy that was injured from it. So you can pretty

(31:51):
well imagine that. You know, there's a liability aspect to
that as well. And there's other instances where these you know,
drone shows, where they lose their GPS signal or something
of that nature that can come crashing out of the sky,
and so you have to be very very cautious with
those things.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, I did see a drone show one timing in
Kansas City about a year ago at night, and it
was just amazing. But I was thinking, I'm glad that
they're away from the crowd of people, they were not
flying directly over the crowd. And I would say that's
probably a really good idea.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Very definitely. I mean, these things can come I mean,
the payloads alone on these things can be very very heavy,
and the size of these things can also be very
very heavy, and to have one of those things come
crashing down on you because it lost its GPS signal
or something. And then here's the other aspect that you
might not be aware of. The drone busters that we
had for the Army and the military that they were implementing,

(32:52):
really knocked the basically knock them dead, you know, and
then they fall out of the sky. And so we
have to even be very cautious about using those because
again it's a situation where if one comes in the
perimeter of the base, we might be able to do it,
but then where's the perimeter of the base, and and
and all this other stuff. You don't go outside of

(33:14):
the perimeter because that could be a neighborhood, you know.
And so how do you how and when do you
use the drone buster? And there is one instance, for example,
up in New Jersey where you had apparently a drone
buster was used on a drone that was being chased
by another drone who was looking for drones.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
O god. So I mean, it just gets more and
more complicated, it does.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
And then add in the fact that you also have
UAP out there, and in UAP are not as as
you know, there's not as many of those things they're
very rare phenomena. But but bottom line is that's added
into the mix and it gets just very, very confusing.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
So it's it's very confusing. I had an incident that
I still to this day. It just happened in November.
I cannot identify it. And I'm a forty year trained
investigator UFO investigator. I don't know if it was a
UFO or a drone.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Yeah, And this is by the way, that this goes
back to the fact that we who study the UFO
keep then we keep getting asked about but we have
to learn about the ifos that are out there and
just as much as we need to know about the UFO, right,
And so we've got to do our homework and really
become very knowledgeable about drones because guess what, they're being

(34:36):
misreported left and right, and you have you get cases
and you have to go and solve the case, and
you have to you know, include all these other IFO
kinds of things into your study. Right. So yeah, it's
very problematic.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Do you think that the drones are the reason for
the uptick in UFO UAP citing reports?

Speaker 3 (35:01):
I haven't seen anybody make a correlation on that. And
then the other problem is I think that you know,
there's many factors around uf people reporting UFOs or if
you would number one, they become more knowledgeable about what's
going on in terms of up on the hill, and
they say, well, wait a minute, now that the government

(35:21):
is out there, I can report it because I feel
somebody's doing something right. I'm legitimately not going to be
called a kuck, you know. So we have an uptick
because people feel more confident in reporting there and not
being called a kuk, and they feel like they can
do that now, and I don't necessarily, you know. And
going back to the fact that we usually explain a

(35:44):
lot of these things, it's you know, are they all
reporting you know what the planet venus? Are they reporting what?
You know? And it's not until you've got to investigate
the cases that you look at, now, how many ones
that are actually unknown to see if there really is
an uptick. An uptick in reporting does not mean that

(36:06):
there's an uptick in activity of UFOs.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
That's correct. Let me clarify something though, that it's separate
from that, separate from just the sightings. Okay, there has
been an uptick, at least in my State of Missouri
of close encounters with UFOs and non human entities who

(36:32):
make themselves know and with close contact. There has been
a big uptick in the last year of that sort
of thing, and I need to do research to find
out if it's worldwide, you know, or if it's just
a small area where that is. Have you heard anything
about that?

Speaker 3 (36:52):
No, Again, I go back to the fact that I
think a lot more people are feeling much more confident
in doing the report where they didn't do it before.
And I think, you know, and so they've become better,
they're becoming more informed about the UAP and because there's
just so much stuff that's out there that's telling him
about it. Right, So again I look at it as

(37:14):
being more like, I can I feel comfortable in reporting
I don't, you know, back in the time of when
I was doing it. I've been at this for sixty years,
as you very well know, the whole UFO investigations and
stuff like that. But back in the Project blue Book
days and stuff like that, a lot of people didn't
feel confident reporting to Project blue Book. Yeah, and so

(37:36):
you know, they reported twelve thousand cases over the years
that they did it, but quite Frankly, I don't buy
that that was the number of actual UFOs that were
being seen by the pablum. So you know, a small
number of people would have reported it to Project Blue
Book in those days. So again the problem we have
is statistics and the vast majority of sightings are not

(38:00):
reported correct, you know, and so we don't get a
true picture of just the volume of UFOs that we've
got going on. You know, you and I experienced it
in the sense that when when we get cases, what
it looks like that there's an uptick in cases. I

(38:21):
got a lot more to do. But you know, then
you know, even in the state that I Alabama, when
I was doing the State Investigator and we were down
at about thirty percent of the cases that we couldn't
I explain. And then some of those were the fact
that there could have been also some classified sightings of

(38:42):
advanced aircraft that we would never know about, right, So
that takes that takes the thirty percent maybe down to
let's say, oh, i'st say twenty percent, right, and then
you might have had other things that were out there
like earthlight phenomena that is poorly studied. Uh, And there's
a whole host of those things that are could up
in the sky that people are seeing as UFOs when

(39:04):
it was really an earthlight phenomena. So what I'm what
I come down to is that generally, if you wanted
to look at it, it's probably about maybe five between
five and ten percent of all cases that would tend
to be in the true unknown. I can't explain it
no matter what you know, Category.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Rich in your sixty years investigating UFOs, what is one
of the absolute best UFO cases you investigated?

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Well, I mean I also investigated the Nimetz case. I
mean so, I mean we actually interviewed the eighteen eighteen
of the people on board of that whole that encounter,
so we we talked. We also did the physics on
it and found out that it was moving in about
mock fifty or above mock fifty to fifty five. It's

(39:56):
fifty five times a speed of sound. Right, So now
you're touching about you're talking about an object that drops
from twenty thousand feet and stops above the water in
less than one second. In fact, it was seven eighths
of a second. So it was moving in incredible race speed,
didn't have any sonic boom, didn't have, you know, no

(40:17):
kinetic energy release, didn't have a whole host of things,
no heating up in the atmosphere. Apparently it's got no
sign of propulsion. And as you very well know, it
was seen by Commander Fraber and his Whizzo and as
well as Slate and also Dietrich in their aircraft with
their eyes, as well as being picked up on the

(40:37):
spy one radar that we have aboard the ships. So
I mean, that's an incredible case, and I investigated that,
so you know, I can say that over the years,
I've investigated cases like, you know, seventy foot in diameter
crops basically a crop circle if you would. That was
not a crop circle, but it was a circular area

(40:59):
in the middle of a week field where all of
the entire wheat down to the roots were all gone overnight,
and the there was microwave radiation. In addition to that
was if you go out seventy foot seventy foot beyond
in the seventy foot area in the middle of the
wheat field right where there's now standing wheat all the

(41:22):
way around it, right, and nobody, nobody brought in heavy equipment,
did anything because they would be obvious that they did
it right. So it's clearly from above. And then if
you take a look at the fact that the as
you go out from the perimeter of the seventy foot area,
you get on the outer edge and you start to
see a little bit of roots sticking up, and then

(41:43):
you see a little rotational pattern of the some of
the the crop, and then you have puffed wheat around
the entire seventy foot area.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Oh something was there?

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, right, you know. So in fact, I'll be honest
with you that that is my aha moment that there
was really something to this whole phenomena. But I experienced
that in Carrollton, Ohio in the seventies. I investigated all
the ones, probably a thousand cases. So I'm telling you
that I don't know. I can go on and on

(42:17):
the stories that I've had. You know, a case over
in Mississippi, for example, because I was also the state
director for over, there was a case where you had
a sheriff who's retired. He's a retired sheriff. He comes out,
he was out of his property. He sees a round
object followed by a triangular shaped object followed by a

(42:40):
helicopter and he's watching this this orb triangle and helicopter
going across the sky, and he hears somebody over in
this wooded area next to him, which is on public
land off of his property. He goes over there and
he basically is now seeing somebody that's in there wearing
like military dark military garb outfits and one person holding

(43:04):
something like you know, the like a portable laptop that
he can he can work with, you know, on his chest,
and he tells him and threatens him to get out
and then not say anything about what they're doing. Well,
when my so we actually get this case, we're looking
into it, and the next thing you know is, uh,

(43:27):
he had a conversation with my investigator right back and
forth and they were talking about it. And a couple
days later, the whoever it was that was in the
field came knocking on his door holding up the emails
between him and my investigator, yeah, and saying, we told
you not to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yep, they have the technology.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
So so bottom line is that there was something going
on over that case. When you have that kind of
thing going on that could have been military related in
a generally in public area. But he was shut down
and right, you know, and so again you've had a lot.

(44:11):
I've had a lot of cases over my sixty years
of just incredible stories like that, and incredible cases where
you actually got legitimately some corroborating evidence or something of
that nature. That's something really going on, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, you mentioned the earthquake lights earlier, and of course
those are often seen around fault lines and especially before earthquakes.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Now I'm not talking about the same thing you are.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Okay, what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (44:43):
So you're talking about what they call the piazzo electric
kind of like the around fault lines where you might
get a fraction or a fault line that shifts or
something like that and creates this like effect almost like
ball lightning. The earth light phenomenon is a little bit
different in this sense of think of a bubble of gas,

(45:04):
multiple gases in the bubble that rises up out of
the ground or something of that nature, can move across
the atmosphere of the sky, even can get up to
two thousand feet in altitudes, and it can go across
two thousand feet in altitude and fly, and it's described
by many as being an orb or a big ball

(45:25):
of like light or something like that, and it glows
and if you get close, I mean like in the
winter months, they tend to be eight foot in diameter.
In the warmer months they're about four feet in diameter.
And we've been able to get spectral imaging of these things.
And now tell you what the gases are on the

(45:47):
inside of the bubble. It tells you it's made of hydrogen.
It's got hydrogen and nitrogen oxygen in it. Well, that's okay,
But at the same time, it's got sulfur, and it's
got iron, and it's got yttrium or scandium in it.
And those elements come up when we do the spectral
analysis on those lights, if you would, And we find

(46:10):
out that scandium, interesting enough, is used in Hollywood to
illuminate night time to make it look like daylight. So
now this gas, which is a rare earth metal, can
stimulate itself to the point where it can glow and

(46:30):
the earth light phenomena. And by the way, I will
point out to you if you look at the study
by doctor Harley Rutledge called Project Identification in your state, by.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
The way, I have it, yes, in.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
Your state, that was that earth light phenomena that he
was investigating there in nineteen seventy three. Well, the same
thing was going on over here about an hour away
from me in Cloverdale, to where there was a witnessing.
They've had from nineteen seventy three on sightings of these
big balls of the I'm talking about the earth light phenomenon.

(47:03):
They call them spook lights, by the way. They don't
know why else to call them, but the spook lights
that are doing this. And two gentlemen we're out there
have been filming it and studying it for a long time,
and they see it and they've been reporting it. We
actually went out there three winters in a row to
see if we could actually see something, and we saw
some interesting things, but we didn't actually get to see

(47:25):
that phenomenon. But again, it's a phenomenon that a lot
of us are not aware of. But this, and the
other thing that I'll point out to you is one
of those balls of gases if you would that's lit,
could go right between you and I and on my side,

(47:45):
I see the light. On your side, you do not
see the light.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah, So the light is many cases of that.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
The light is unidirectional, not omnidirectional on all sides, and
Harley Rutledge had it where he little plane over nobody
could see it, but on the ground they could see it. Right,
So there's there's that type of phenomena out there. So
that's different from the Pazo electric frac you know.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Right now, we have something in Missouri called the Joplin
Spook Light, and of course they are they're actually all
along thirty seven degrees latitude for some reason. But the
Joplin one I experienced that myself a few years ago.
But also when I was fourteen, the most amazing thing happened.

(48:32):
We saw two orange balls of light, one about the
size of a basketball, the other one the size of
a softball. Following it, they paced our vehicle. And then
when my father stopped the car on Spook Light Road
by the way, the big ball of light went in
front of the car to the other side of the
road and stayed low to the ground, pretty low to

(48:55):
the ground, right at eye level. And the little one
came in our the back window of our station wagon.
Me and my brother and sister are in the backseat.
This little ball of light comes through and goes right
in front of us, lights up the interior, very very
soft glow, not bright, and goes out the window and

(49:16):
meets up with the other big one and they dance
around a little bit and they go off in the woods.
Now is that a natural phenomena?

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Do gases appear to look like they're intelligently controlled?

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Our interpretation of intelligently controlled means that it looked like
it did something that was maneuvering in some sort of
way that is not natural or what you would think
that me not rational? Right, So let me point out
to you these spook lights or these earthlights that I'm
talking about. We're hanging above a railroad track, okay, and

(49:56):
when a train came, it kind of like a matched
itself magnetically, because if you think about iron being on
that one of the constituent parts, and now was it
attached itself to the train that was coming down the
tracks and went with the train. So now would you
call that intelligently controlled or was the magnetic kind of

(50:17):
property and that connection you know, something that that did that,
And we don't really know. For some reason, the lights
over here in Cloverdale moved west to east or east
to west, but not north to south or south the north.
So then you say, well, wait a minute. You know
underground water wells are going east to west underground, so

(50:44):
is there some sort of a magnetic connection or a
connection to that. But you could otherwise have said, well,
wait a minute, they're intelligently controlled because they only fly
in that east west or west east, right, why don't
they go north to south?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
And so yeah, I could see I could see your
point with that, but well what eyewitness seemed really intelligently controlled?

Speaker 3 (51:07):
Yeah, Well, you know, again, there's there's a phenomena out
there that we don't understand, and legitimately, if we don't
properly investigate it or we don't really study it, we
don't really know how to sort the difference between that
and what legitimately could be a UAP. Right, So my
point to you is that there are so many unknowns

(51:27):
out there because we haven't done our job scientifically to
study the earth light phenomena appropriately to separate that now
and say well what this is? Okay, and let me
you know, we started off the conversation with you were
talking about the piezo electric kind of like ball. That's
a different one. Now you have this other category called earthlight,

(51:47):
which is something else, and then you have this other
thing which is out there, which is probably a small
UAP of some sort, right, that is intelligently controlled, And
we don't know how to discern the difference between all
these different categories, and so that that classification and that

(52:08):
study has to happen for us to be able to
figure out how do we sort that out? Because, as
you very well know, people just say it was an orb,
Well what does that mean? You know, what does it?
What does an orb mean? You know? I mean, tell
me what an orb is? You know, is it a
ball of light? Well, okay, that bowl of light has
multiple light things that can account for it, right, So

(52:31):
I mean, which one is it? I don't know. And
it's not like that they've got like, Hi, I'm an orb, Hi,
I'm this or I'm that. And so we've got a
lot of homework, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Well, yeah, and I'll say something else about the Joplin
spook light, which is actually multiple lights that people see
different sizes. Some of the residents near this spoke light
road and in between two roads have had balls of
light go through their house, in through their living room

(53:05):
and out through the other side. And then it appear
on the outside of their house. So it seems that
physical matter doesn't seem to stop them. They can go
through anything, correct, which is bizarre.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Yeah, well it is. And you know there's a whole
history of these things coming in through people's windows. That
you also have ball lightning. I forgot to mention that,
which is actually you know, another another aspect of light, right, Yeah,
the ball of light or plasma that's moving around. But
you know, apparently that there is no resistance from going

(53:38):
through a building or something of that nature. And we
just don't understand them yet well enough to be able
to know, well, how can they do that or what
can or can't they do? These the spook lights basically
are being reported. If you look at it, just there's

(53:59):
the mind Men lights in Australia. You got the Marple lights,
you got the Brown Mountain lights, you got the Missouri
Piedmont sightings, you had the Cloverdale, You've got the Hessel
in Norway. And there's these areas are like all over
the globe where these things are. I had one guy
that was in Vietnam who was telling me that during

(54:19):
the Vietnam Crisis he was watching these balls of light
moving through and they smelled like sulfur, by the way,
that's one of the ingredients to the top of it, right,
And he said, yeah, I'd smell like sulfur and stuff
like that, and we would see these things all the time,
so we don't really understand it. If you think back
on swamp gas days with in the early days the

(54:39):
swamp over the marsh and Heinechs was making the declaration
that it was swamp gas, well, he's not far off,
because that can actually happen and create that ball of
light or whatever like that. I don't think that explained
what they saw because they saw more detail than what
that would have produced. But every anyway, you know, uh,

(55:00):
there's a lot that we don't.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Know and still a lot to study, and we're much
Unfortunately we're out of time for the scenient. But thank
you so much for coming back on the programing and
sharing your expertise with this. I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Oh, no problem, Glad to be on with you again, Margie.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
You take care, all right, you too, all right, everybody,
we will see you here again next week.