Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome listeners to a new episode of the Upwardly Mobile
API and App Security Podcast. I'm George and I'm Sky.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's good to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Great to have you today. We're looking at something that's
well change the game for mobile connectivity, the embedded SIM
or e SIM. It's convenient, sure, but what does this
shift mean for you developers building carrier systems or really
any apps relying on mobile identity, especially concerning the APIs
(00:27):
managing sensitive user profiles.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, it's fascinating because the SIM hardware itself is arguably
more secure than a physical SIM. You know, it's embedded, encrypted,
stored in a secure element. But that security just shifts
the vulnerability. It's less about someone physically stealing your SIM.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Card, which was always a risk exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Now it's about remote provisioning, remote management and the potential
for identity fraud through those channels. We need to look
at how carriers and developers can well plug that gap.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Okay, so let's unpack that core idea first. Are you
there's actually safe? There seems to be a lot of
confusion out there.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, generally they are often safer than physical sims. Actually,
But and this is the key part, that safety really
hinges on how they're implemented and frankly user.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Habits too, So the physical security is better.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Definitely can't be physically removed or tampered with easily. That
cuts down on the old school physical SIM theft and
related fraud.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
What about the myths then, hacking cloning? People worry about
their digital sim being copied.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
That's mostly myth. Direct hacking extremely unlikely. We're talking strong encryption,
hardware level protection think mobile payment security levels okay, and
cloning is almost impossible. The profiles are encrypted, tied to
the specific device and the carrier account. It needs a
secure authentication process.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
To move, like one time passwords or carrier.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Verification precisely, so the real danger isn't someone digitally copying
your eSIM data itself.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
But there's still a risk. You mentioned sim swapping. How
does that fit in?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh yeah, sim swapping is the equal opportunity threat here.
It works just as well against eSIMs as physical sims.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
How I if the hardware.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Is secure, because the attack doesn't target the device or
the SIM technology directly, it targets the carrier's authentication process,
usually through social.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Engineering, so tricking the customer support exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Or compromising credentials for an online portal, no physical access
needed at all. The hardware security becomes irrelevant if the
attacker convinces the system.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
They are you right. And this is where it gets
really serious for developers managing those carrier apps and APIs.
How exactly does an esimswap attack play out? What's the goal?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
The goal is almost always financial theft or account hijacking.
It starts with social engineering or using stolen credentials, often
gathered from phishing scams or data breaches. PII is unfortunately
easy to come by.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Okay, so they have the personal info.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Then they impersonate the victim. They contact the carrier remotely phone,
web chat, maybe even exploding an API if it's not
secured properly.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I lost my phone.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Typically, yeah, lost my phone, broke my phone? Need to
transfer my number to my new device For an eSIM,
The carrier, if fooled, generates a new activation method, maybe
a QR code.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Which the attacker then uses on their phone exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
They scan the code, download your phone number profile onto
a device they control, and instantly, instantly they control all
calls and texts to your number. Crucially, they intercept those
SMS based two factor authentication codes.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Ah, the two FA codes that unlocks everything.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Everything banking apps, crypto wallets, social media email. We saw
that real world example where someone lost nearly ten thousand
dollars in just hours. Wow, the speed is terrifying, and
it's enabled by that remote provisioning capable.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Well, that remote provisioning it's the core feature but also
the core liability for iOS, Android, Harmony Os developers working
in this space. You also mentioned a sort of digital
symbox fraud.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, it's a related threat. If the carrier's provisioning security
is weak, especially the know your customer case I see
checks right, fraudsters could potentially automate activating many a simprofiles,
maybe using emulators or across different ips. They could mimic
the effect of a traditional symbox used for bulk SMS
spam call fraud abusing APIs, but do it virtually without
(04:15):
the physical hardware.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, so the weak point is clearly the carrier's app
or the API that handles that provisioning request. Let's talk solutions.
What specific advanced defenses can developers integrate right now?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
The fundamental strategy has to be shifting the security decision
away from the client side, which can be tampered with,
and into a secure back end or cloud service makes sense.
Two key technologies here working together, app attestation and device binding.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay, let's take app addication first. How does verifying the
app help stop and attack based on stolen credentials or
social engineering? Right?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So, app attestation provides cryptographic proof, like a sign token,
that the app making the request, say the carrier's own
app asking for an eSIM swap, is the genuine, untampered
version from the official app store, and that it's running
in a safe environment.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So it detects modifications, or if it's running on a
rooted device or an emulator exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Those are common tactics for automated attacks. If the app
has been messed with or it's running somewhere sketchy like
a desktop emulator to script requests, the attestation fails, the
back end API checks that token, sees its invalid or missing,
and blocks the request.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Even if the attacker has the correct username and password precisely.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
The credentials might be right, but the client environment is
proven untrustworthy, the ATI doesn't proceed. It makes spoofing attacks
much much harder. Because the check isn't just on the device,
it's verified by the secure back end.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Okay, that tackles the compromised app or environment. But what
if the attacker uses their own clean phone, installs the
official app, and just uses the stolen login details.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That's what the second piece, device binding, comes in. It's crucial.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Device binding? It creates a strong cryptographic link between the
legitimate user's account and the unique hardware fingerprint of their
trusted device, usually established during the first secure log in.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So it's more than just a device ID.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh yeah, much more. It uses a combination of secure
hardware characteristics to create a unique persistent identifier for that
specific phone or tablet tied to that account.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So walk me through the attack scenario again. Attacker has credentials,
uses their own clean phone.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Right, they log in successfully, perhaps, But when they initiate
the eSIMs swap request, the back end system checks the
cryptographic signature of the requesting device.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
And compares it to the bound device signature exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Since the request is coming from a new, unverified device
the attacker's phone, the signatures don't match. The system sees
this mismatch and flags it flags it immediately. It can
then automatically reject the swap or at the very least,
trigger much stricter out of band verification steps that the
attacker likely can't pass. It stops them from simply using
(07:01):
stolen credentials on any old device.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So binding ties the identity to known trusted hardware. That
seems like a powerful defense against the social engineering aspect too,
taking the decision away from a potentially fooled human agent.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It absolutely does. The check becomes cryptographic automated and happens
at the API level bypassing those weaker points.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Okay, those are strong technical controls of the API layer.
What about broader strategies things carriers need to implement system wide,
especially against that bulk fraud or digital simboxing idea.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, there are definitely system level things. Strict Know your
Customer KYC is non negotiable during ESUM activation. We KKYC
is basically an open invitation for fraudsters to provision profiles
in bulk using fake or stolen identities.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
That makes sense, get the identity right at the.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Start and then ongoing monitoring. Carriers really need to be
using AI and machine learning for usage pattern.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Analysis looking for weird behavior.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Exactly, things like a huge spike in international calls right
after activation, or tons of activation requests from one IP block,
or activations happening simultaneously across emulated devices. Static rules won't
catch sophisticated fraud. You need dynamic anomaly detection.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Any policy controls.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Profile limiting policies are smart, putting sensible caps on how
many ESUM profiles one account or even one device hardware
ID can activate in a given timeframe. You know, trying
to swap a number multiple times in an hour should
be an automatic block.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
And flag right common sense limits. Ah Now, what about
the end user? What can you, the listener do right
now to protect yourself?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Okay, number one and I can't stress this enough. Move
away from SMS for critical two factor authentication wherever possible.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Use authenticator apps.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Instead, Yes, Google Authenticator, Athe, Microsoft Authenticator, or even better,
hardware security keys like FITO keys. These codes are generated
on your device and can't be intercepted even if your
number is swapped.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
That's a big one. What else?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Check if your carrier offers a SIM protection or line
lock feature. Many do now enable it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
It essentially puts a lock on your account that prevents
any SIM or eSIM changes, transfers new activations until you
manually unlock it through a secure process.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So an attacker couldn't just call up and swap it.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Nope, the lock would block the transaction and importantly many
carriers at a small delay, maybe fifteen minutes after you
request to turn.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
The lock off AH a cooling off period.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Exactly that delay gives you, the real user, a critical
window to get an alert that someone's trying to disable
the lock, realize it's fraud, and relock your account before
the damage is done.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Good tip and basic device security.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I assume always strong passcode or biometrics, keep your OS updated,
be wary of phishing, the usual cyber hygiene.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So wrapping this up. The condience of v SIM is great,
but it opens this new front and security centered on
remote provisioning, APIs and identity verification. The solution isn't simple.
It's layered strong user practices like ditching SMS two FA,
carrier controls like KIC and locks, and crucially for developers,
implementing technologies like attestation and device binding to cryptographically secure
(10:12):
those critical API transactions.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
That layer defense is absolutely essential for the current mobile landscape.
But you know, thinking ahead, we've focused on phones and tablets.
What about the Internet of things? Countless devices, medical implants,
industrial sensors, logistics trackers. They often rely entirely on remote
eSIM provisioning, sometimes with zero direct user interaction.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
A huge automated attack surface.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Potentially, yes, if those provisioning systems aren't secured with the
same rigor attestation, binding anomaly detection. What happens when billions
more devices come online? Could we see new kinds of
scalable fraud or even sabotage that make today's simswaps seem wow,
almost quaint.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
That's definitely a sobering thought for the future of connected
device security.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's the next big challenge.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Thank you for joining us today for this exploration of
a simsecurity My pleasure. This discussion was generated using human
expertise and informed by various published sources, assisted by AI technology.