Fox & Rob Richardson: Robbing a bank together, fighting the system and more!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Out of an act of desperation. You, your husband, and
your nephew rob a bank.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I had dishonored my ancestors by submitting myself and my
family back to slavery. My husband was sentenced to sixty
one years as a first offender. His nephew, who was
our co defendant, was sentenced to forty five years at
twenty years old. But because he's more than the worst
thing that he has ever done, we will stand this out,
ride this out, and we.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Will get him home.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
We fight to ensure that our people are making better decisions.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
So this is not even a part of our reality.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
If one in three black men are going to prison,
which one of it is it going to.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Be in your household.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
To date, our organization alone have saved over forty thousand
years of time behind bars. In this social justice movement,
we have noticed communities of color going and really focusing
on other people's problems.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
But our problem ain't fixed.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
I want you to dive into this loophole that is
in the thirteenth because some people don't recognize that slavery
is real.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
It's in the constitution.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
It's in the constitution.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, I thought that all people that broke the law,
deserved whatever time they got. And so when the Clinton
crime Bill was on the ballot, I came home from
college and voted in favor of every one of those measures. Oo.
And then in nineteen ninety seven I sat in their
court room and I watch my family directly impacted by
each one of those lives.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Because of the choices and decisions that you made. You
had to walk away from your family, yes, for twenty
one years. And so as a husband, as a father,
what did that do to you while you were sitting
in that prison. Welcome to Valden Power's Talks. So we

(01:45):
don't just scratch the surface. We dive deep into the
lives of some of the world's most influential change makers.
I'm your host, Brandy Harvey. Now, y'all, I think I'm
about to bubble out my seat. I think I'm just
about to take off running today. I am so exciting
for this conversation. Come on, Fox. Richardson is an OSCAR
nominated documentarian who captured hearts and minds with her poignant

(02:06):
narrative in the celebrated film Time, a groundbreaking work that
garnered global acclaim. Fox's latest project, Time to Unfinished Business
is the touching next chapter of her saga, documenting the
fight for the release of her nephew and her co
defendant Ontario. In nineteen ninety seven, Fox face a heroing
turn of events when in desperation, Fox and her husband

(02:27):
Rob embarked on a daring bank robbery with their nephew,
forever altering the course of their lives. For the next
twenty one years and four days, Fox devoted her life
to securing Rob's freedom. Fox believes to be free is
to free others. Vont Empower's Talks Welcome wife, mother, human
rights advocate, activist, freedom fighter Sybil Fox Richison.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
To the show.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
I'm taking you back to New Orleans with me, and
I'm never letting you go.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
I'm going, Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
If we was talking about going to Louisiana, Baby, I'm
only going with you because you've got the key, the keys,
the keys, Okay. I am so excited. I gotta tell
this because when Brittany stopped me at the AAU basketball
game and says, I got somebody who needs to be
on your show, and I said, oh, okay, and then she said,

(03:15):
why can I send you something?

Speaker 4 (03:17):
She kills me A story.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
I'm like what, I'm like, that sounds crazy, I said,
bank robbery.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
I said, five thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
She sends me the documentary time too, and I was like,
I was texting the book her.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Now, how can fast can we get her here?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, it is an honor to be And I'm just
excited about the platform that you are building because you know,
you give space to stories like mine so that we
can tell how we've turned messes like our lives into
messages for other people.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
You know.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
I mean your husband Rob is here, he is here.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
And now that's a whole other story. Brandon.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Candace kind Man said, yeah, she's gonna talk to you.
I said, wait a minute, hold up, she gonna separate us?

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Who does that? So?

Speaker 4 (04:06):
I was in my feelings some of the guy.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
I was like, I don't I don't know, yo.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
He could have sat on my lap. What the way
I saw y'all in the movie?

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Baby, I said, you probably want to sit on the mail.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes indeed.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
So I just said, you know, let me be open
and see what God has for us here. I have
not had a conversation to just be in space with
another woman as powerful as you, so it's really I think.
You know, when women talk, things happen. So thank you
for taking a chance to a moment to talk with me.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
I mean, you are a force in the world. I
mean nineteen ninety seven. I mean in a moment of desperation,
and you say this in Time one, because I've watched
I watched them in Rovert, so she said, I watched them.
I watched Time two. And then last night before you came,
I said, Brandy, you you gotta sit down and you
gotta watch Time one because I was sitting in pre production.

(05:01):
I said incarceration, I said, Jill. I said, I you
looking for a deal breaker with Brandy. Jill, that's a
deal breaker. And then I go watch Time one and
I said, I.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
See how you ride by.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Somebody for two decades, right, nineteen ninety one out of
an act of desperation.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
You, your husband, and your nephew.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Rob a bank nineteen ninety seven, Brandy, and I would
probably say when people look at our story and they say,
oh my god, you fought for him for twenty one years,
you stayed.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
By his side.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
But what they failed to understand, and I'm sure you
will understand this, is that it wasn't about my husband.
My family is so much bigger than one individual member.
Each member makes the family greater, but no one member
is more important than any other. And so my husband
was in prison, So that means our family was an

(05:55):
incarcerated family. And this is what we are dealing with
as a family. But because he's important to us, because
he's more than the worst thing that he has ever done,
we will stand this out, ride this out, and we
will get him home, no matter if the state has
sanctioned him to die in prison. That's not my truth,
and so I just think that I'm hopeful most that
our story will reflect to other people. First and foremost,

(06:19):
family is everything. We went into that bank thinking that
we were going to get some financial solvency to help
save our families failing business, and immediately after mating that
atrocious decision, we realized that everything we needed ready we
had already already, We already had it, and we walked

(06:44):
away from First and foremost, we had the freedom that
our ancestors blessed us with when we were born.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Here in America.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
We weren't given that our ancestors fault died bled for
us to have freedom, and with our own hands subject
did ourselves back in the slavery according to the thirteenth Amendment.
How dare we disgrace the honor of their legacy in
such a manner.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
I mean, Fox, you said in Time one, because I
want to give her Annia some concepts before we even
move into time too. In Time one, you said you
knew when you pulled up the car that got out
the car. You said, I knew our lives would never
be the same, that they were changed forever. You knew
in that moment you had the feeling that we just
made a bad choice.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
And not just a bad choice. I didn't even realize
how bad it was. I hadn't studied the statistics that
you've just read that shows how disenfranchised black people are
in the criminal legal system in America.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
And so it's not just that.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
We are foolish enough to make these choices, but we
got to be educated. I mean, if one in three
black men are going to prison, which one of it
is it going to be in your household for us
to really think about it in that manner. And so
probably the most important piece of everything that we done
up until this point on this thirty year journey as
Rob and I figure out what is the next direction

(08:05):
of our work at how we will serve it is
about preventive, being able to make sure that people understand
the games we're playing with our lives when we break
laws in this country, when we find ourselves duly convicted,
and so maybe instead of us fighting to bring down
the next prison, maybe instead of us fighting for this

(08:26):
jail policy and the third, maybe we fight to make
sure that our to ensure that our people are making
better decisions. So this is not even a part of
our reality that we can actually imagine a world Ms
Harvey when people were saying, oh, that crime was committed
by a black person. Oh uhm, baby, you got them
all round black people smart enough to know they can't
afford to commit a crime in America.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Can you picture that?

Speaker 1 (08:49):
I mean, Fox, I mean, here's the stsistence statistics for
our audience. Louisiana, which where your crime took place, yes,
has the highest incarceration rate in the United States and
the world the world. As of twenty twenty three, Louisiana
in prisons about six hundred and eighty people per one
hundred thousand residents, ranking number one globally.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Globally.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
So if you commit a crime in the state of Louisiana,
you are guaranteed you are going to serve sometime. If
you are black, if you are black and poor, you know,
I mean all of those, so many of those elements
play into it a brandy But I just want to
lay it on us making better decisions for ourselves so
this doesn't become a part of our reality when we

(09:33):
know the statistics are laid out and it's not going
to shape up for our highest goods, that we won't
be treated fair. It's not going to be fair because
black people make up sixty seven percent of Louisiana's prison population,
but only thirty two percent of.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
The state's population.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Sixty seven percent of the prison population in Louisiana. One
in fourteen black men in Louisiana.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
Are behind barns.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
This is, you said, not a niche problem. Let me
see national crisis.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's an international crisis. Look at what's going on in Venezuela.
I think it is that we've got to start not
just looking at this as an individual or black people problem.
This is a humanitarian crisis. We as humans shouldn't want
people in cages. Human beings in cages anywhere in the world.
Not to say that people can't be reprimanded, not to

(10:23):
say that people don't have to be removed in some
form from society, but in the way that we have
industrialized caging human beings, it is I don't think it
is what our got intended for us. And so Rob
and I would bless with our own freedom having been
condemned to die in prison. My husband was sentenced to

(10:43):
sixty one years as a first offender in Louisiana in
an offense that no one received medical treatment. And I
know typically viewing audiences will say, well, you must have
did something, somebody died, what happened and none of that,
you know, was the case. His nephew, who was co defendant,
was sentenced to forty five years at twenty years old.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
He didn't even have a weapon. Miss Harvey had d mace.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
And then my role of dropping them off around from
the bank. The DA initially wanted to sendence me to
forty years in prison. Wow, and you took the plea
I took the plea deal, as did my husband, and
his nephew equally tried to take a plea deal, which
is a whole nother story for another day. They'll have

(11:29):
to read the book time in order to get all
of those gory details and mishaps along the way. But
I think it's just a matter of me trying to
resolve my matter as quickly as possible, because truth be told,
there was boot camp even available. Well, I could have
gone and did six months of intensive training and came
back home to my four sons I left behind. But

(11:49):
instead of choosing that for me, a college educated woman
with no prior criminal offenses, they chose to send me
to jail, to prison for two seven years cent This
is in one five year sentence run together.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
But you ended up doing how many years in prison?
Three and a half You did three and a half years.
And what was so heartbreaking and when I watched the
movie is when you have to tell your son that
you were going away, and you said the countdown. Let's
do the countdown to when I go away, because as
soon as I go to way go away as a sooner,
I get to come back own.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, girl, that is I mean probably you know, just
the the spirit that I embodied from recognizing how I
had dishonored my ancestors by submitting myself and my family
back to slavery. The next most painful piece was leaving
my children behind. I loved my children, and I love

(12:44):
being a mother, and I'm so grateful that God chose
me to bring their lives forward. I considered a tremendous
honor to raise them and be their mother and take
my responsibility deeply, and so to have realized all of
what this one choice had done and disrupted their lives
removing me from them. It wasn't many nights that I

(13:09):
didn't go to bed crying in my bunk under my
covers because I missed my babies and I had to
entrust their care. Blessed to have entrusted their care to
my mother, because the thing that I would discover when
I got into prison was that most women who have
as many children as I do, in particular women with
larger families like my own, they didn't have one person

(13:31):
to keep their children, and they would have their children
all over the place, and typically in prison, they may
give the mothers one to two social welfare calls a
month to check on their children, but other than that,
any call that you make, you've got to pay for
the people that are receiving their call have to pay
for and if they taking care of your children, Brandon,

(13:52):
they can't afford to take no call from you. So
you can hear your children's voices that they're trying to
figure out how to feed. And so even while I
was in prison, my mother didn't take my collect calls.
I would get my friends to call. I would call
them and then ask them to call my mama on
three ways so I could talk to my kids so
it wouldn't cost her. Right, I'm putting more weight on
the black woman, and since we're talking as black women,

(14:16):
I think it's more imperative now than ever that we
as black women take a real stand about what is
happening in our family units so that our children understand
that breaking the law is not an option. Because when
there is unlawfulness in our households, whether it's an argument,
whether it's a drug deal, whether it's it's a hot check,

(14:37):
whether it's it's some petty shoplifting, it falls back on
the shoulders of the black woman, and we already stretched
sail out.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah, I mean speak about your mother, Garrett.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
My sweetheart eighty about to be eighty years young, talking
to the gentleman.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
I told I needed a daddy. So she'd been talking
to some friends on social media.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
I said, listen, I'm too old not to have a daddy,
and you still here, so I need.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
You to go find me one. So I told I'm
gonna start looking for me and daddy, and I hope
she will join me in that process.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
My mother, missus Peggyye Tree, is an eighty year young sweet,
hoxy hot sexy thing.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
She's cute because she my mama.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
And if you know some single man out there, probably
I don't think she want them over about seventy seventy five,
you know, she like a little young.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yo Bama. She was.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
She was something. And watch on the documentary. Yes, to
be so supportive.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
To be so strong and uh, they say tough love,
to exercise such tough love.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
But get your work for.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Me, I mean, she said, in the in the dock,
she said, when you were going to go to court,
she said, you need to toss.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
Your hair on your head like you have crazy.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Like you have crazy, put on some pants, put that
dress on so you.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
Can, she said, but not not fox.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
She went down there straightening that hair, swinging that hair
from them white folks, I.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Said, listen.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
She said she went down there swinging that hand for
them white folks. I said, already don't like They already
don't like you.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
And I and she did tell me that that was
her truth. And what was most interesting about that is
when she spoke those words and May Brandy Harvey, I
didn't know what she meant. And I didn't know what
she meant because I thought that it's a new day
from when she was raised and I was gonna be
treated fairly in this system. She said, they already don't

(16:38):
like you, because she understood the racial difference that existed
in our criminal justice system.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
And me, being of a younger, mind.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Less exposed to the harm that my mother had been
exposed through, exposed to, I didn't understand that it was real.
But when I got in that court in the small
town Louisiana, I said, oh wow, it's really not just
in the movies.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
So it's right here, live and living color.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Oh that wow.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
And so I was a college educated woman. I had
two degrees of Masters in public administration, and I thought
that all people that broke the law deserved whatever time
they got. And so when the Clinton Crime Bill was
on the ballot. I came home from college and voted
in favor of every one of those measures. And then
in nineteen ninety seven I sat in their court room

(17:32):
and I watched my family directly impacted by each one
of those lives.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
W Fox.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
What I need you to convey to this audience is
because sometimes we think because we achieve, because we got
to degrees, because we done moved into a good neighborhood,
we dropped the right car, we got the right pedigree,
that somehow it's super us from what can happen to

(18:02):
us on the other side of a choice and a decision.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I would probably say that the greatest example that I
can offer Brandy is Time one and Time too. It
is a thirty year body of work that speaks to
one family's poor decision making and then their fight to
overcome and be resilient through those decisions. In America, I

(18:28):
think that people actually get to walk the journey, and
like you have, their judgments, but through pure documentation, no acting,
no pretend, no playtime, they get to see a thirty
year journey of what it looks like when a family
steps outside of the confines of the rules, and then
how they're treated in America and why it's so important

(18:50):
for us to really put freedom at the forefront of
this conversation.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
That is why we are even.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Launching this campaign Time to Watch Campaign for Freedom on
June June.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Team Yeah, one million people watching? Is that crazy one?
It's not crazy, you know what I said.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
People may think I'm asinine to think that I can
galvanize just a little bit on me, that I can
galvanize a million people to watch freedom unfold at the
same time on the same day bear witness to the
same truth.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
They may think that's.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Crazy, But what was really crazy was thinking that I
could take on the state of Louisiana with a multimillion
dollar budget for the right to have my family back.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
I mean talk about take on because we got a
lot of y'all out here say y'all ride.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Or doe, y'all don like what I really tell you.
I'm a ride to live, I'm a right right to live.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
I don't call the people miss good afternoon, miss manny.
How you doing today?

Speaker 4 (19:50):
Yes, I'm calling them regards to my husband. My family
is my families matter? Baby every day.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Oh you don't have anything today, Oh you didn't type
up you didn't type up the judgment.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
Okay, I'll call back. Y'all don't have a level.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Of persistence and consistency to do what this woman did
to free her husband.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
And then I mean your nephew.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
I mean, can we just because this is not just you,
all right, I mean, and it speaks to what the
impact is when we talk about incarceration on families. Your
husband is locked up, co defendant was your nephew who
was nineteen years old, correct when he went to prison.

Speaker 4 (20:35):
He was also a part of that.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
So that meant the other layers of the family affected.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
It is one of the common things. People commit crimes
with the people that they know. So if it's not
a family member, it's going to be some form of
a loved one. People commit crimes more often on people
that they know. And so that's just a societal thing.
It's not a thing, is not you know, a white thing.
It's just you interact with the people that are closest

(21:05):
to you. And so we had a duty and an
obligation when I got was able to bring Rob home
through clemency, which is just an amazing tale and miracle
within itself. Brandy, if you are reading, woman, I know
it doesn't necessarily go all the way into it in
the documentary, but our book Time, which is available wherever

(21:25):
books are sold. It's also on audio as well, but
it walks folks through how we actually got clemency for Rob,
and that clemency actually came through our youngest son, Freedom,
who was seventeen years old when God anointed him to
speak to the King on behalf of our family. And
so I know that when one goes in pursuit of

(21:46):
their dreams, our dream was freedom.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Now our dream is freedom.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
For our people, that God will prevail in those matters.
Rob had been working a legal issue for since like
two thousand and five. We're trying to figure out in
the world are we going to get out of this system?
Almost a decade in and we were no closer to
figuring out an end date than we were when we
first went in, or than we were when we were

(22:11):
first facing two hundred and ninety seven years. And so
not giving up on following through with that law because
he knew what would impact many when we finally got
the policy change that we were seeking. Once he came
home from prison, Brandon not only did it help people
closest to us. It gave an opportunity for freedom to

(22:31):
over three thousand families in Louisiana who were serving sentences
of thirty years or more and thought they were going
to die in prison because they had no other outlets
to return home. And so, like I said, sometimes you
think you have a problem and it's just for you.
But when I watch how God is using my family,
my husband and I my mother who serves as a

(22:53):
demonstration as so many grandmothers are having to take in
their loved ones and the absence of their children. And
then my children who have to suffer being the child
of two, not one, but two incarcerated parents and being
able to press severe to go on and be six
successful human beings in spite of, not because of I

(23:13):
think I say in time, one success is the best revenge.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Let me say this when Remington got his white coat.
When Remington got his white coat, baby, I was sitting
on my couch, like I mean.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
And then to.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
See your sons, whose statistics would show it's in the
data that to have one incarcerated parent, but now I
have two incarcerated parents and six boys that you have birthed,
and none of them have fallen victim to the legal
system in that way.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
And you know that is a testament to.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
You all as parents to be able to persevere in
such a way because you got out and learned a lesson,
and because you learned a lesson, I learned.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
A lesson going in brand Rob said happened to him
in the back of the police car.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
I think it happened to me. When they got out
the car, I was like, oh, oh, this is not
gonna be good.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
That was your lesson.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
And it has been a master teacher because it's one thing.
The difference with lawyers and people that learn law because
they're directly impacted. And this is what is so amazing
to me about Rob, is that you learn law differently.
When you learn law and you go to law school
and you're going to help someone, then it's one study.
But when you're having to go and sit in a

(24:41):
law library every day because you now need to learn
how to interpret law and find your avenue through this law,
your tool through this law in order to bring about
your liberty, you think about law in a different way.
You know, you move differently when you think about law.
So I just I don't know, man, it's just so

(25:02):
many fasts and to be able to watch what we
have been able to do. I know that God is
just using us for the greater good. It's bigger than
just rhyme and eye and our family. But this is
about our people. Our people should have you know, we
in this social justice movement, we have noticed communities of
color going and really focusing on other people's problems.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
And I'm saying, but our problem ain't fixed. As long
as the exception.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Clause is in the thirteenth Amendments of the Constitution, Black
people in America got some unfinished business.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
I want you to dive into this loophole that is
in the thirteenth because some people don't recognize.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
That slavery is real. It's in the Constitution.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
It's in the Constitution.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, and so in their efforts to appease Southern states,
they put an exception clause that slavery would be ended
except if you're duly convicted of a crime. So if
you're duly convicted of a crime like my husband and I,
then you are in. And so the two point three
million people that we have serving time in our country,
they're not incarcerated, they're enslaved individuals under a new name

(26:10):
because it's more fashionable. But I think that that was
probably one of the biggest revelations for us is just
understanding that it ain't over and so until we get
focused on removing the exception from the thirteenth Amendment, we
have unfinished business of our ancestors before us. And so

(26:31):
our goal with this one million watching Time to Watch
campaign is just being able to get our sisters and
brothers galvanized to really center themselves on freedom this June teenth.
The campaign kicks off on June teenth. You can host
a watch party, you can get your cousins and them together,
however it is that you want to do it. But

(26:51):
the families that register to be a part of this campaign,
they will actually own this film for their lifetime branding.
Then they will get tool kits for freedom immediately when
they register, they will get tool kits email to them
that they can download that will include how to approach clemency,
participatory defense hubs across this nation their contact information because

(27:14):
there is help. Robin I have been doing a model
of work called participatory defense down in New Orleans for
the past since he got home. We just celebrated six
years as an organization, and on June twentieth, the day
after our National watch Party for Freedom, we will have
our Freedom for All sneaker ball. So you got to

(27:35):
get your cute tennis shoes on and come on up
and in that cute dress.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
You can wet it.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
That is formal, but you can wear it.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Dress, Brady Harvey, you can wear that dress, girl, and
come on put a leg with us, because we're gonna
boot boots on the ground and zydeco dance and second
line in all on June twentieth for our Freedom Ball.
But that is why this campaign is so important. It's
just to be able to galvanize us and center us
on freedom on June teenth, so that we can really
do the work of our forefathers. That is some unfinished business.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I mean, let's talk about this unfinished business and the
work of our forefathers. Because even when Rob was released
from prison, he was still really not released because he
was on probation, parole, parole. So for how many years
were forty?

Speaker 4 (28:22):
I thought, that's what I heard, forty years, curfew, all.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
The things, volunteer hours, Darrel. They treated us like we
were the worst of the worst coming out of their
system after twenty one years and one write up in
twenty one years in four days.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
It was just.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Disappointing or disheartening to see how the state had treated us.
But we also understood their frustration in the moment, if
you would. Many don't know as they watched time one
in the filming of that documentary, we almost lost our freedom.
We had worked all of this time. The reason why

(28:59):
we even did a doc documentary in the first place,
branding was because after we had gotten to about our
fifteenth year of incarceration, Rob suggested to me that, you know,
with the way that the doors were closing on us,
the only way that we were probably gonna get some
help for our matter was if we raised national attention
about him. And the thirteenth had come out, and so

(29:19):
he says, I think we should do a documentary. We
should work to tell this story so that we can
get some national support. So, you know me, I'm like, okay,
so now we're gonna tell the documentary.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
All right, it that's how we're gonna get free. Let
me figure it out, right.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
I go back to New Orleans, and as God would
have it, not shortly after I moved started moving in
that direction. Garrett Bradley, the director from Time, called me
about a project she was working on a short dock
for the New York Times, and so she asked cause
she interviewed me.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
She had been referred to me. She had been referred
to me by.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Some other leaders in the social justice movement, and she
called me asked the interview man. I was like, you know,
certainly anybody wanted to tell these stories, I'm here for it,
and I see in doing that work. I say to her,
will you go back and see if the New York
Times will fund this story h and do an doc
on our family story, to which she agreed to, which

(30:14):
the New York Times greenlighted the project, and we went
into production a couple of months after that. And as we,
as God would have it, when Rob, we actually instead
of the documentary helping Rob come home and us being
able to use it as a tool for freedom, instead
we were able to achieve freedom on our own. And

(30:36):
his liberation became the closing scene of the film. But
what was my point in telling you that, Oh about
the documentary and so.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
How you almost lost your freedom?

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, because so in the midst of them filming.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Rob had his pardon board hearing, and so I say
to the film team, I want you all to capture this.
I'm even going to allow one of you in with
me as a visiting member. But nothing about media is
to be said here or anything. If you will asked
about why you're here. You're here as a supporting member
of our community. But while we were inside preparing for

(31:13):
his hearing, the cameraman pulls out his camera from the
film team and starts recording anyway, sets up right in front.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Wasn't even hiding.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
He set up right in front of broad daylight and
the security officers go over to him.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
He tells them that.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
He is with the producer who was inside the hearing
with us from the New York Times in South Louisiana,
doing someone's part of the hearing to decide if they
are worthy of mercy.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
And so people see your story and they say, you know,
you know, what is that little saying they say about
you know, my glory, but you don't know my pay
that They were so angry to find out to discover
that the New York Times film team was there filming
our family story that instead of commuting rob sentence as
we had requested from the board, they just elevated his

(32:03):
parole and allowed him to be released on parole.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
So this is why he ended up getting forty years.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
So that's why he is home on forty years of
parole instead of being totally free. It's like he went
from slavery to sharecropping.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
Yeah, because still a curfew. Still he can't go all.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
The country without permission. All of his living is just
by permission.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Again, it's everything by permission. You're not free.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
And so it is interesting I keep saying that we
have for a family whose offense was in the grandest
scheme of things, so minuscule that thirty years later, we
are still under the bowels of incarceration. You can, you
can make me bow my head, but you can't make

(32:53):
me stop my voice.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah, you know, I mean, let's talk about Ontario.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Because your nephew who was your codefendant and was sentenced
to forty five years. There was a moment in time
too when there was a similar situation where the judge,
when it came to the hearing, the judge was like, oh,
you're trying to make this a circuit, trying to make
me look stupid kind of vibes. I remember that in

(33:17):
the documentary with the Judge, So is it. Has there
been this moment where you felt like you had to
silence your voice a little bit?

Speaker 5 (33:30):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (33:30):
Did you feel like I'm.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Gonna have to You don't hear the pain in my
voice when I'm calling the chords? Yeah, the humility, the
anger that I'm smothering in my voice as I call
and muster up, the courage to be courteous when I
know that this very system that I'm calling is the
very reason why my family is in justly being harmed. Yes,

(33:58):
and to endure the malice of no one caring. You know,
on our nine twenty year journey, as we were working
toward freedom, everybody listened to me, Brandy Harvey, you and me.
They Oh, the poor girl, she's still running up and
down the road to Angola.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
She's still going to bless her heart.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
But from politician to lawyers to DA's, no one that
I spoke would would give me the answers in order
to undo the harm that had been done to my family.
So now in this moment, when we gather one million
people on Juneteenth and we bear witness to the freedom
in this film time to unfinish business. We will also

(34:37):
deliver into the hands of a million people that register
the freedom Toolkit that they need in order to even
begin to pursue liberation in their lives for their families.
And I'm saying everyone, because one out of three of
us got a loved one that's locked up. And I
say every one of us that's black in America got
a loved one that's dealing with the system. Nobody is exempt,

(35:00):
just black people. This is an American story. When our
current president has thirty five thirty four foot seth sixty
nine melodies, you know, when the outgoing President sun is
a convicted felon, you know, it's reaching the highest levels.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
And so what we're hopeful to do.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Is is take what it has taken us thirty years
to understand, box it up and give it to our people.
And that's what we're doing this younge teenth with one
million watching our campaign for Freedom on June nineteenth this year.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
And that's a real way to celebrate freedom.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
It's a real way to celebrate freedom.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
I mean, you empower your people to get free.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
I mean, and I think that that initially when you
go into watching this you don't understand that. That's really
what the message is. It's to empower us to get free,
because it's not just about oh, we're gonna get free
from from prison now. It is freeing us of the
mindset that we even make you the choices to go

(35:59):
to prison.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
It's free make me shadow here.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
It's freeing you of the mindset for you to even
make the choices that would take you down that road
to get to prison.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
I mean because when.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
I look at the aerial view of Angola, which your
husband was in Angola, which when you hear of prisons.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
Eighteen thousand, sprawling acres.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Covered by the Mississippi River on three sides, there is
no escaping them.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Them them people that just broke out that jail a
couple of weeks ago. Maybe through that wall, this ain't
happening down No, yeah, there is nowhere to escape to.
When they do the aerial view in the documentary, you
are like, oh my.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
God, they're hell on earth.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
And the nerve of them to have a museum as
if this is I mean.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
The photographer will he's from New Orleans. He said, Oh,
we want on a on a on a field trip.
I said, y'all went on a field trip to the president.
He said, yeah, we want to. I said to Angola,
where I got that museum that I saw in that documentary?
He said, yeah, we went there on a field trip
in middle school.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
They ingrain us early, don't they.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
It is either positioning you to say, hey, I don't
make that choice to get there because y'all know, or
b is let me show you where you're gonna be.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
And depending on who taking me, I don't know which
one in Manson's might be.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
I mean, I really want you to because your nephew, Ontario,
who lost so much of his youth, I mean his
all of his youth captured, gone stolen. I mean at
nineteen years old to go to prison for twenty five years.
He was in prison for twenty five years. Correct when
you think of that, you know, when you think, I

(37:47):
want you to talk about what the children, how the
children are affected, because when I look at your children,
I mean, yes, beaten, every odd and statistic.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
You got doctors, lawyers that are coming through, but we.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Still got our dysfunction.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
And I mean, I'm gonna tell you the truth because
I'm gonna brand the heartby show you know I'm just
gonna spill my beans since you bring it up. My
husband has been home seven years, and because all of
what we had dreamed of, this September will make seven
years and everything that we had dreamed of about everything
we had lived for. I mean, when you're an incarcerated family,
you're like, ooh, when my husband come home, when your

(38:23):
daddy get here, when my daddy get here, you know,
just all the thing wait, ooh, our first Christmas together,
just all the hopes and dreams. But by the time
the truth be told, by the time Rob got home,
his wife was in mental palls. Yeah, his children had
beards and lives of their own. And it has been
almost seven years and I am still shouting as a mama.

(38:46):
We can't get a family photo. Y'all can't all decide
to come home at one time. So it's not the
system keeping us apart anymore. While we can't get together
and get the one family photo since since your dadd
had been home. So it has been a challenge because
all of them have lived their entire lives without him.
They're all trying to figure out, now, what do we

(39:08):
do with a daddy?

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Because the twins you were pregnant with the twins when
you were arrested. Yes, yeah, so they've never experienced a
home life. Remington experienced home life for this fire briefly, Yes, yeah,
because he was like in kindergarten before when his father
went off to prison.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
But ann beats now, right, And so when you talk
about the twins and the baby boy, no clue. So
it's just so much harm that we do that is
so unintentional, but intentional. And that's why I say that
the biggest gift that I can give to my people
is to be able to give them an example of
how you can take poor choice making and make it

(39:48):
work to the greater good. Because they say, truthfully, all
things work for the highest good of those that love
the Lord.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
And black people we love the Lord.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
We've just got to figure out how to make those
things work for our high is good, and our highest
good is being able to make other families aware of
this so that they can make better choices, and those
that have already made a choice like this can have
hope and know that together, Yeah, they can be free.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
Yeah, they can be free.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Our people need to believe that we have the power
within us to reclaim our families from this system.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
And so that is what this toolkit is.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
When they register and become a part of this million
campaign for freedom, they get this toolkit that is liberation
tools in their hands.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
What are some of those tools when we talk about
liberating our families, our communities, what are some of those
tools that we all need to have in the toolbox.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
One of the I would probably say to you one
of the biggest tools that I would grant is the
understanding of that document that you will get that makes
public law, the public copy of the public law.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
That makes June tenth the federal holiday.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Because when you understand that, and you incorporate the history
of June tenth with that, then you understand that you
have freedom that you have earned so just the respect
and regard for it.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
So when you lose it and this toolkit you find.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
A tool I call that is a model that is
called participatory defense. Participatory Defense was founded in Silicon Valley
and we are one hub of forty hubs across this
country doing this work. We judge our success about how
much time we save someone from serving time versus how
much time they actually end up being sanctioned. To to date,

(41:32):
our organization alone has saved almost four thousand years of
time from behind bars, whether it was on the front
end or whether it was on the back end getting
clemency for someone who had been sentenced to die in prison.
And collectively our hubs have saved over forty thousand years
of time behind bars.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
And so they're.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Forty thousand years and this is in the last seven years.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Oh no, this is in the last five years.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Okay, So her perspective, do you have a number of.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
People that that is or well, it just varies because
it's so they are giving out so much time, Brandy,
I mean to give us time.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
To our people, like it's a joke we've had since
you know.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
I talk about it in the film Time, which is
in my own thoughts. These were cases that I raised
in this film that were cases that mattered to me,
but I didn't have in my wheelhouse an opportunity to
address them. And so this was my get back raising
them in this national platform of this film that's going
to be watched by a million people that are interested

(42:41):
in freedom on Juneteenth. But stories of how a judge
gave a man fifty years for stealing a candy bar
and then joked at him that if he had stole
a king sized candy bar, then he would have given
him life.

Speaker 4 (42:56):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Those are the types of commons. A young man that
was former veteran Faith Winslow in Louisiana. They send usd
HM to twelve years for a joint. So when you
think about those, I'm sorry, no, they sent us Faith
to life for a joint because it was his third offense.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
And so of marijuana.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Now, not a keyload, not not a truckload, not a time,
a joint and so those other matters that I was
able to use art as activism and raise these in
this platform. So when I saw the reception of time,
when I had God had given me the clarity of
mine as to how I could walk away with not

(43:37):
only my life rights after having Hollywood tell my story,
but also walk away with the rights of this Oscar
nominated asset. Then I would be doing a disservice to
my community if I didn't use them. So people ask, well,
time too, why did there need to be a time
to time? One was so amazing? Why would you what
made you think you were qualified to direct the time too?

(44:05):
I knew that it was necessary for me to do
time too, So I don't worry about how to get
it done. I just know that if I'm called to
do it, I'm gonna figure it out. And if what
we always do.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
I mean talk about figuring out, I know we got
time on this clock now. Rob was not planning on
getting in this chair today, but I almost feel like
I do need to bring your husband and.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Let me tell yourself. You missing the treaty. You don't
talk to that brother, because.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
I think that to hear the story of someone fighting
for someone incarcerated, but then to have the understanding of
the person who is incarcerated, and how two decades, twenty
one years and four days could wear you down out.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
But it was a constant reminder. I won't quit. I
won't quit. I won't I can't quit. I won't quit.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
I got a question for you, Brandon.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
How does a man maintain his faith and his family
when he has an undetermined amount of time to serve
in prison?

Speaker 4 (45:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I mean even when I see you walk, like in
the documentary watching the phone calls from prison and the
youngest baby was going to take get ready for bad
and you're like you trying to talk to him, and
you you you the wife, and you're trying to talk
to him as the wife and this my man, and
but then he's like listening.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Because like I'm want to get on daddy too, And
you only.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Get fifteen minutes, baby, by almost five dollars.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Yeah, per call, per call.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
And there's got to be a wearing because I know
that there had to have been an adjustment. You said
earlier that you were going through menopause when your husband
gets out, you know, but not just that, but that
was an adjustment into the world because.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
The world was very different twenty one years.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
But when he got when he went in the nine
nine in the two thousand.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
Nile.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Juvenile had just drop.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Well, listen, listen, we're gonna get into for one because
I'm telling you your audience will be blessed to hear
from that man of faith. I mean, it just takes
a special kind of brother to be able to and
them to walk. When we would when we visited in prison,
Brandy Harvey, the other our fellow community members, they would
call us Baraka Michelle of the prison. Now I know, wow,

(46:38):
Baraka Michelle probably don't want to know that somebody locking
a man to the prison, but it was awfully a
real lofty compliment for them to think of our family
so that even in the midst of hell, that we
stand out as a demonstration of what is possible for
our family.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
What is and so that was you know, humbling, you know, uh.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
And I told you Fox my deal breaker. I don't know,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Let me tell you, I wouldn't wish it on my
worst enemy. I look at other women who have taken
on relationships and they were not with their partners before
they went into prison. That these are relationships that they
are building post conviction, and I marveled at those women
because I just wouldn't wish this experience on my worst enemy.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Brandy. It is a very it is meant to break you.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
And so I would just pray that that women would
be able to find a love for themselves that didn't
hurt this bad.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
Oh, to find a love for themselves that didn't hurt this.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
I want everybody to have love, and I think that
our brothers behind bars they deserve love. I just want
them to the sisters that love them to to have
an opportunity of love that don't have to hurt so bad.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
Rob, you coming to sit in the seat.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
It is a pleasure to be here, mister Richardson, Yes, ma'am,
how are you?

Speaker 5 (48:09):
I am absolutely well.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
I mean you kind of the man at an hour
you while we're here.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
You the reason there was a time I.

Speaker 6 (48:17):
Know, right, thank God for that woman there, right, Yeah, yes, indeed, man,
I can thank you enough for your mama and your
daddy for having you, and thank you most importantly for
having us on your show.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah you I mean what an ordeal? I mean, twenty
one years, four days in prison. It's a lot of
time to think through some stuff, a lot of time
to sit with yourself.

Speaker 6 (48:42):
Yes, indeed, I appreciate you forgiving me the four days.
People be asking like they don't exist. If you spend any.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Day, it was probably the hardest, right days was probably
the hard day, Yes indeed.

Speaker 6 (48:52):
Yes indeed, But yeah, you're talking about quite the journey.
And I wouldn't wish our incarceration up on my worst enemy.

Speaker 5 (49:02):
It is truly a.

Speaker 6 (49:05):
Deplorable, a dishonoring space to be in when you know
just every element of your life you're asking for a
permission for And it's just like I said, just something
I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Yeah, when you got sentenced and you knew you had
to do this time, what was the one thing that
went through your mind? What were you saying to yourself?
Because I know you said over and over I won't quit.
But I know there had to been some moment of
agony that you experienced when you got sentenced.

Speaker 5 (49:38):
Before agony, Brandy was what would you say? Dismay?

Speaker 6 (49:48):
And I say dismay because when he handed out the sentences,
I could have swore to God he was talking to
somebody else.

Speaker 5 (49:53):
I said, he got the paperwork messed up. Mind you.
Arm robbery at.

Speaker 6 (49:58):
The time of my offense carried a min of five years,
carried a maximum of ninety ninety years. And to know
that I had already been recommended for boot camp as
a response to the sanctions for my charge, to know
that the judge had sidestepped all of that and issued
out a sixty year sentence to me a forty five
year sentence respectively to my nephew.

Speaker 5 (50:20):
I thought for certain that he was reading from the
wrong page.

Speaker 6 (50:24):
And it took my uncle to stand up in the
background or the courtroom, and boy, he cursed from here
to there, and he said they ain't killed nobody. And
those were kind of the words that you know, kind
of stayed with me because one I'm thinking, like, Okay,
they about to kick my uncle out the courtroom. I
don't have a whole lot of supporters in the courtroom
at this moment. But in that moment, like you said,

(50:46):
I was dismayed at first, and then after which I
realized that this has got.

Speaker 5 (50:52):
To be something more.

Speaker 6 (50:55):
You know, I knew in that moment that this was
some kind of calling that had been placed upon me.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
It was just a feeling, really, And you know, I.

Speaker 6 (51:05):
Had, you know, been in the church, you know, prior
to had read the story of Joseph, had read the
story of many of the characters throughout the Bible, and
I realized that, crazy enough, that many of the grandest
of the stories that exist in the Bible, they are
stories of incarceration from the beginning all the way up
to the murders of Salt turned Paul, you know, in

(51:29):
his transformation. So in that moment, like I said, it
just felt like to me that it was just one
of those moments that God had placed me in a
space to learn a greater lesson with hopes that I
would be able to teach a greater lesson to the
larger public. And so just in that moment, I realized that, Okay,
it was like one of the Jesus Christ moments when
he was sitting on a cross, and I know when

(51:50):
Jesus was up there, I kind of think I know
how he felt when he was talking about passing that
bitter cup to somebody else. You know, I mean, this
whole moment had been about Jesus, and now at this
moment that you know, he's facing facing sanctions. You know,
it was in that moment that he was really warning
to forego the sanctions that they were trying to issue.
But there was a coming to self kind of moment

(52:14):
that I believed that Jesus had, and it was at
the moment when he spoke the words when he says,
but if it's your will, then let that will be done.
So in that moment, I knew that this was bigger
than the judge. I knew it was bigger than the
da I knew it was even bigger than the choices
and the decisions that I had made to put myself
in that situation to begin with. It was just up

(52:34):
in that moment that I was going to have to
figure out what the actual purpose for my incarceration was
going to be.

Speaker 5 (52:41):
And so therein began my journey.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Wow, what was the purpose when you look at that
twenty one years? What was the purpose? What was the
biggest lesson to free others?

Speaker 6 (52:54):
I started an argument probably about two thousand and five
that stemmed from another young man that I met while
I was incarcerated. He asked me to read his rap
sheet one day, and then reading a rap sheet, he
asked me could I interpret it for him so that
he could maybe.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
Figure out, like when he would be eligible for a
parole release.

Speaker 6 (53:12):
And after reading it, I realized that he had an
upcoming date. And then after maybe about a week or two,
he got another rap sheet. The second rap sheet that
he got was no reflection of his parole release date,
and he was like, well, why do you think they
took my parole date? And I said, I don't know,
maybe we should file a grievance on it, And so

(53:34):
I filed a grievance for him.

Speaker 5 (53:36):
It went through the through the process.

Speaker 6 (53:39):
After it got so far through the process, they denied
it at the wardens level, and then ultimately was denied
at the secretary of the Department of Corrections level. And
at that point he was like, well, man, what do
we do from right here? I said, well, if you
allow me to, I said, I would love to really
take this into a civil court matter, because I think
that their interpretation of the law is wrong. And he says, well,

(54:01):
what makes you think that is wrong? I said, well,
I've been wrestling with this issue here for quite some
time right now, and I got a pretty good decent,
a pretty good understanding of the English language, and just
based on what I'm reading, it tends to suggest to
me that what they're saying about your sanction is different
than my interpretation of it. At any rate, His mom

(54:21):
came to visit from Florida. I had been walking all
over the prison trying to get other people to realize
that we were entitled to something that we were being denied,
and they didn't really have no qualms one way or
the other. Many of them thought that they had been
condemned to death, and they figured they were just figured
out how to do it in day by day installments.

(54:43):
And so I started, you know, kind of proselytizing throughout
the prison and landed on five guys out of maybe
hundreds of guys that I felt like I had talked
to about the issue, but five guys were willing to
join me in a class action suit. We didn't have
money for an attorney. So I went around the prison

(55:03):
and my wife didn't have no more money for an attorney.
My family didn't have no more money for an attorney.
We were tapped, and I said, well, if we all
put in on it, then we might all be able
to put up, you know, just enough to be able
to get a lawyer. So the guy who I'm speaking of,
he brought me to visit one day, and then bringing
me to visit, he had me talk to his mom,
who was visiting from Florida. And Mama Bev is her name,

(55:24):
and she spoke with me and and so doing. She says, well, baby,
I don't understand the law, and I don't really know you.
She says, but I have a discerning ear, and I
know that what you're talking about resonates as truth to me.
She says, find a lawyer. And I got half on
the lawyer. Wow, that was all the motivation I needed,

(55:47):
Miss Brady. I went back down and I found another
person to give me seven hundred and fifty dollars. I
found somebody else that would commit to twelve fifty. I
found somebody else. Boy, we found a way between myself
and five people. I said, I would do the argument,
and y'all pay the money, and I'll find the lawyer.
Fox was able to find a lawyer out of Baton Rouge,

(56:08):
in fact, that stepped in and said that he would
take the case. And he took the case. But fast
forward many years later, we were able to get a
resolution through the legislative branch of government, and in that
we were able to free more people than I ever
thought we were going to free through that argument. When

(56:28):
I first started arguing, and I thought it would maybe
free about three to five hundred people, I was denied
from the judge on the grounds that he thought that
it would open up a floodgate to other people who
he thought would be coming asking for the same right,
and that three to five hundred people that I thought
it would impact paled in comparison to the three thousand

(56:51):
plus people that now have a right to go home,
to return back to their families. But it came as
a result of an argument that I that I had
put forth, and I knew now looking back on it,
you know then just saying that, you know, to myself,
had I never come to Angola State Penitentiary, who else

(57:11):
would have figured this argument out? So I knew in
that moment that it was God's opportunity, on God's offering
to me in that moment to say rise to the
occasion and for me the payoff when it made sense
to me, it made sense on the other side of
One of the first books Fox sent me while I

(57:31):
was incarcerated was called Man Search for Meaning by Victor Frankel,
and in it, you know, he talked about the meaning
for suffering.

Speaker 5 (57:40):
He was concentrated in a German prison.

Speaker 6 (57:44):
But the point I'm making in it is that when
I came back and I realized that one day I
was facing two hundred and ninety seven years sentenced to
sixty one calendar years inside of prison, sent there to died.
Not because I thought that that's what they sent me
to do, but because the mockery that the district attorney
made to me when he even offered me sixty one years.

Speaker 5 (58:06):
You know what he told me, Miss Brandy. No, he
told me that I got a deal for you today.

Speaker 6 (58:10):
Because I still had some outstanding charges for jury tampering
that was associated with the armed robbery. I had already
been sentenced to sixty years on the arm robbery, so
I was facing five to ninety nine for each count
of the jury tampering, which is how I was facing
two hundred and ninety seven years, he says. But I
got a deal for you today, he said. The deal
that I got for you today is two five year sentences.

Speaker 5 (58:30):
He says.

Speaker 6 (58:30):
One of them, I'm gonna put that one into the
time that you've already served on this charge, so you've
already finished that one, he says.

Speaker 5 (58:36):
The other one, I'm gonna suspend.

Speaker 6 (58:37):
Four of the years, he says, but the one year
that is left remaining, I'm gonna run that one separate
of the sixty that you're doing for the armed robbery.
And as he walks out the door, he taps on
the door and he says, bailiff, and he wanted the
bailiff to let him out.

Speaker 5 (58:50):
And he turns back and it's.

Speaker 6 (58:52):
Creepy looking kind of way, and he says, do you
know I gave you sixty one years today, And I
mean gave you the deal that I offered you today.
I said, no, So I really don't. I say, I
assume that you were trying to show me some leniency
or whatever. He says, Ah, not quite.

Speaker 5 (59:09):
He said.

Speaker 6 (59:09):
The reason that I gave you the sixty one years
is because the last time that someone committed jury temperan
in my town was in nineteen thirty eight. This was
nineteen ninety nine, sixty one.

Speaker 5 (59:19):
Years to date. He says, While you're doing your time
in Angola, ponder on that.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Oh my god, talk to me, Oh my god. I mean,
when we think about how deep when we talk about
systemic racism, we talk about institutionalized racism, when we talk
about the prison pipeline, when we talk about all the
prison in prison industrial complex, industrial prison complex all the time,

(59:46):
when we talk.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
About it, this is what we mean.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
That this is hundreds of years of diabolical behavior that
has been impeded and and put on to black people.

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
And so when we when.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
We think that we are free, we are constantly minded old.

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
No, not quite right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
I mean, before I let you go, I have to see,
because you know Fox, she's gonna cool off.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
She comes back, right, fix, gonna come back and close
us out.

Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
I want you as a father because just like you,
you had to walk away because of the choices and
decisions that you made. You have to walk away from
your family, yes, for twenty one years. And so as
a husband, as a father, what did that do to
you while you were sitting in that prison? What did
it give you time to ponder as a father and

(01:00:48):
those choices that you made, and then to get out
and come back and to have to face your children
and to be a father in this way?

Speaker 6 (01:00:58):
I think in that moment it made me have to
repurpose the role of father and repurpose the role as husband,
particularly as it related to my sons. I realized after
reading a Men's Health magazine. It was for a Father's
Day edition, and in this particular edition of the Men's

(01:01:18):
Health it was talking about the amount of hours that
the average father spends engage with their children on a
monthly basis. And I was really amazed to see that
fathers who are at liberty spend on average about eight
hours a month engage with their children out of a
thirty day month cycle. And with that being said, I

(01:01:40):
started doing the math in my own head and said, well,
I get two visits a month.

Speaker 5 (01:01:44):
You know, if we get here early enough and leave
late enough.

Speaker 6 (01:01:47):
I got twice the amount of time that the average
father has to spend with his particular child. And I
say so, if I be intentional about how I spend
that time during my visitation, that I could be equally
as impactful as the fathers.

Speaker 5 (01:01:59):
That are on the street.

Speaker 6 (01:02:01):
So it was just in that moment, and like I
said again, reading this particular edition of the magazine, it
made me think one further about coaches, and I think
about the coaches that have that have you know, championed
people like Muhammad al Lei, that have you know, coached
football greats, you know that we now know today, Basketball
greats that we now know today.

Speaker 5 (01:02:22):
You know, just all the all of the sports.

Speaker 6 (01:02:24):
And the thing about the coach I found myself similar,
and that is is.

Speaker 5 (01:02:30):
That I'm not in the game. I'm not in the ring.

Speaker 6 (01:02:33):
I'm not on the court, not on the field, none
of those things. I'm on the sideline, much like the coach.
So I started to take on a role of coaching
instead of a role of fathering. So it was in
that moment that I realized that if I just coach
from the sidelines, giving best practices to my children, based.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
Upon a life lived. Then I knew that my kids
would be all right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Wow, that is so powerful.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
I've never heard anyone, anyone ever explained it in that way,
because I know that it's got to be emotionally gripping,
and it's got to be definitely difficult on your own psyche.
But to take on a role and reimagine and repurpose,
that's something that's truly amazing, truly amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Before you walk out to see I told you I
was gonna do it. It's gonna do two questions, right then,
here's my last.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
All right, I came around. This is my last question.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Okay, and it's if you could speak to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Your nineteen ninety seven self, if you could speak to
any man that is incarcerated right now.

Speaker 5 (01:03:42):
What would you say, Never give up? Never give up.

Speaker 6 (01:03:48):
I think that is keeping in the spirit of the
people that fought, died, and bled for the life that
we now enjoy in the Americas. I think when we
give up, we do a disservice to everything that they for,
everything that they died for, everything that they bled for,
everything that they argued for, everything that they protested for.
I think we do a grave disservice to that when

(01:04:11):
we give up, it's one thing the air, but it's
another thing altogether different, to give in to what it
is that you've chosen for yourself. And so in that moment,
I knew, if you look at the movie time, the
shirt that I walk out of prison with says never
give up. I made that shirt ten years prior to

(01:04:31):
walking out of prison. In it, I knew that I
was going to be a certain weight because I was
going to work out to make sure that I would
be able to fit that shirt. But I was in
graphic ards and communications at the time, and I was
strapped with an assignment, and the assignment was that I
was supposed to make a billboard ad and making the
billboard add that the ad was supposed to do this,
that and the other right, and it was supposed to

(01:04:52):
be a compelling ad. And so I thought about it
and I said, well, you know what, I think T
shirts are some of the most compelling ads that I've
ever w andess, you know, in terms of billboards, because
unlike regular billboards, they walk, you know, when they're on
someone's back.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
You used to wear your shirt culture.

Speaker 5 (01:05:07):
You're in.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
A very culture shirt of the store, the first hip
hop store to chop won't have a street port.

Speaker 6 (01:05:15):
Right right, listen, So that would be it. But in
that moment, like I said, I created that shirt. But
it was the last marathon that that I had run
inside of prison while I was incarcerated. Fox and I
had committed to running seven marathons in a year to
signify the number of times that a child of an

(01:05:35):
incarcerated parent is likely to come to prison as a
result of having a parent himself. So that's seven years,
those seven marathons that Fox would run outside of prison,
and that I had convinced convinced the wardens of the
prison to allow us to run inside of the prison.
Imagine trying to convince wardens to train people to run.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
You were running marathons in prison.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am, just like running around.

Speaker 6 (01:05:59):
Just running around on the prison yard. And goal is
one of the most impressive prisons in the fact of
how large it is. It sits on eighteen thousand sprawling
acres of land, covered three quarters of the way by
the Mississippi River. There's only a way in and a
way out that comes you know, as far as the
road that gets you there, and it's a twenty one

(01:06:19):
mile winding road to get you down in there. But yes,
the acreage that is there is mind blowing. They had
an article that came out in National Geographic one time
that says that the earth or the soil that is
that of Angola is such that if you chop the
man's finger off and stuck it in the ground, you

(01:06:39):
would grow up another human as a result of it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
It's just that the soil is that rich.

Speaker 6 (01:06:44):
It's considered like the eleventh richest soil in all of
the world that's found there on that plantation. Right. But
in that moment, like I said, that was the last
marathon that we would run, the one that I did
prior to was was I finished strong. And in that moment,
that was my message to the men in prison, because

(01:07:05):
when I would put on the runs, I would get
the graphic arts department to donate the T shirts with
the messaging on them, so men would wear the T
shirts all throughout the day traveling through the prison. But
as we saw each other or we encountered each other
while we were in the prison, I would have to
take note of the T shirt. I would have to
take note of the message.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Let me say this, y'all out here making every damn
excuse as to how you can, why you don't, why
you won't, why you gain't god, why you ain't doing,
why you ain't getting, why you ain't growing, why you
ain't showing up?

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
You got all the why you ain't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Okay, And it's a man sit here who gives you
every reason to find a way that I am Amen.

Speaker 4 (01:08:12):
Me girl, why should do that?

Speaker 5 (01:08:14):
I ain't had none of.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I mean amen, that's all I can say. It is so,
you know, it is so what continue to do the work.

Speaker 5 (01:08:31):
I can't even go home.

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
I can't even go home.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
What is that?

Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
I mean? You want story? It has just touched my
entire soul.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
You talk about black love, you talk about freedom fighting,
you talk about activism, you talk about artistry, you all,
you and fox embody every part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
You needed that word?

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Did listen? Find? How does helly saying what they can't do?

Speaker 6 (01:09:04):
Girl?

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
I don't know where there's a will that's a way.
That's what my mama told me when I was a
little girl. She said, listen, you can make it if
you try. And I say what, Okay, Well, I figure
I'm gonna try. So, I just I think that our
people are too beautiful and too bold, and God knows
we are designed too amazing for us not to try.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Yeah, not to try. As we begin to wrap up, though,
what is your hope? This is so much bigger than you.
It's bigger than your family. It's about the legacy. It's
about the work that you continue to do to really
transform the lives of so many other people.

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
What's next?

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
It is June teenth.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
June nineteenth for us is like all roads lead to freedom.
We are excited to have a million people all over
this country, all over this world, hosting watch parties and
joining us for a conversation on freedom, to watch freedom
and fold in front of us. And so my prayers
that once they register then we'll be able to equip

(01:10:07):
them with the tools that it took us almost thirty
years to discover. And just to know that if I
would have known a fraction at the beginning of this
thirty years that I know now how much more I
could have reduced the harm that my family experienced. Right,
I wouldn't have had my Mama saying they already don't
like you, don't go down there like that. I would

(01:10:28):
have understood her words when she was trying to tell
it to me. So I'm just praying for that people
will join us on this campaign for freedom. In this
interesting times that we are living in, we need to
tune in to freedom even more now than ever before.
And once they register for this campaign, not only will
we have a million people activated watching Freedom, but then

(01:10:50):
we'll have a million people that will have in their
hands a pledge to freedom, a vow that they take
to live their life as free people, to honor that
liberty and everything they do, and encourage their other sisters
and brothers the same. So that is what I'm prayer
for for that this film will save a life, help
a life, save a marriage, but elevate our people and

(01:11:13):
help us understand that to be free, it's to free others.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Brandy Heart.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Yeah, if you could give one message to women who
are supporting people in incarcerated, who are incarcerated, what would
you tell them?

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Oh, if I can give one word, I think that
that one word is hard about.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Women and incarceration.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
I would think of it from a matriarch standpoint and
say to any mother that is dealing with incarceration, or
any female member that is dealing with incarceration. That freedom
is possible, but you need the tools, and those tools
are now available. Register for this campaign, be a part

(01:11:57):
of this campaign for freedom and and you will be
able to access the help, the support, the community that
you need in order to take on this system.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
You just can't do it alone. So that would be
my suggestion.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Register for this campaign and get the help and support
and the insight that you need to be able to
carry on.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
One word, You're committed to in this season of your life. Ooh, Sybil,
committed to you.

Speaker 5 (01:12:27):
Yay.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
The core of me, my younger self, being able to
now that I have spent my fifty three years of
life in service, I believe to others, my family, my husband,
my children, it is time for me to go in
with and spend a little more time and give a
little bit more focus to myself.

Speaker 4 (01:12:51):
Sybil Box, Yes, I.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Mean you and Rob have just blessed my soul. I
knew this is gonna be my favorite one of the day.
I knew what I called it. I knew it well. Listen,
favorite one of the day. Thank you so much for
sharing the story. It is so powerful, it is so
life changing, It is so life transforming. Continue to do
the work, the real work, the big work, God's work.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
Yes. Amen.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
And you the same, Brandy, Hi girl, If you got
a platform, yeah that God knows you deserve.

Speaker 4 (01:13:27):
Amen, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
I'm out here doing the Lawd's work on botom power
Talks another good one for the books, Get and.

Speaker 4 (01:13:38):
Got Some Tears in season three. Baby, that's the first
time I think I did this all season. Hey man.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
So share this with somebody who needs to be transformed,
who needs their life to move into a different level.
But that freedom is their course and their birthright. Until
next time, you guys, eat well, give a damn move
your body every single day.

Speaker 5 (01:13:56):
Peace.

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