Veronica LIVE with Afrikaner Eugene Cussons

Direct from South Africa, Afrikaner Eugene Cussons joins Veronica LIVE to discuss the pressing issues of genocide and racism currently affecting his country. Cussins also shares his perspective on President Trump’s remarks about South Africa’s leadership. This is a must-hear interview to gain insight into the challenges facing this African nation today.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Veronica Lilive the podcast, and I've got a
very important show today. I'm joined of course by John Salak,
my wingman, and we have a special guest. He's an
africanor Eugene Cousins, right out of South Africa. And you know,
We've got a lot to talk about with you. Eugene,
welcome to Veronica Live.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you for hos to me. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
So, so last week we had the President of South Africa,
Cyrel Ramposa, was visiting Trump with a White House visit
and Trump like he said, dim the lights.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
And he started rolling you know, this footage of.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
White Afrikaner farmers that he said there was a genocide
going on. And you know, so I had to have
you on to get to the bottom of this because
you actually, you know, own land over there and you
can tell us what's going on. So first, Eugene, tell
us about who are you and what do you actually
do in South Africa.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, I think what I'm most known for is starting
a project, the conservation project called the Jane Goodle Institute
Chimpanzee Eden, which was a chimpanzee rehabilitation center on a
preserve or a reserve we call it here. The specific
status of my property is a nature reserve, and I

(01:27):
would say the family focus on My focus in legacy
has always been to try and create this green belt
of conservation where a lot of the land around us
has been slowly slowly broken up into smaller homesteads and
also farming community, so the animals have nowhere to go.

(01:48):
This is Africa, It's one of the most beautiful ecosystems
in the world, and weither the last or the closest
nature reserve or gazetted nature reserve property to a very
growing cosmopolitan area only fifteen minutes away from the capital
city of our province or state called in America, so

(02:09):
it's very close to a large community, and it's always
been a conservation focus to try and grow this property
tourism wise. The Chimpanzee Project. The chimpanzees are not natural
to South Africa. So what I'm most known for, especially
by you know, in the rest of the world, is

(02:31):
risking chimpanzees from all over Africa or other places and
rehabilitating them. So one of the languages that I can
speak is chimpanzee. Funny enough, and I can't speak politician.
That's one thing I can't do, but I can speak
chimpanzee anyway. So it's a responsibility of being protecting conservation area.

(02:57):
My cultural group is I am a boom, so that's
what we call and this is it's part of the
you know, you can actually say that we were having
a little bit of a laugh when we hear people
referring to us, because they refer to us most as farmers.
By the time the word farmers get used to describe
a minority cultural group in South Africa. But I can

(03:19):
try to answer that maybe next if you perhaps have
any other questions, then they'll get into it.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
So I just wanted back to the chimpanzees. Are they
still considered like endangered utene?

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, so they're still endangered group. And you know, Africa
has a lot of endangered species and there's a lot
of programs going on. And so I retired a few
years ago. I mean, I had a television show on
an Animal Planet. This is where followed me traveling all
over Africa, risking and chimpanzees. But there's a lot of

(03:55):
species that are on oppression. And when I retired from
the Chimpanzee project a few years ago. It was mainly
for me focusing on others, you know, coming up with
systems and procedures and tools that will help kind of

(04:15):
alleviate the pressure on rangers when they do their work
in the conservation work, in trying to stop poaching, illegal poaching,
especially on the endangered species. So that's really that's really
what I've been Yeah, that's really what my focus has
been about in the last few years, and it's very adventurous.
It takes me all over the place. I've seen a

(04:37):
lot of Africa, and I've seen the most difficult parts
of Africa, if you can put it that way. So
mostly my works around the traveling to places that are
about to be enveloped in war, or it's in war,
it's an active war zone, or it's a post conflict zone.
So it's never a good place to be. And I've

(05:00):
seen the difficulties that surround communities when it comes to
these types of situations. That's why I try and when
I address this topic, I try and warn people that
they're rhetoric, especially politicians, when their rhetoric gets out of
control like it is in South Africa right now, they
really don't realize where they're steering to and towards and

(05:23):
what they're asking for. I've seen it, so I really
wouldn't want it, especially for a beautiful country like South Africa.
It is a wonderful place. And so yeah, it's part
of the challenges that we are facing right now because
it is hitting up.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
So, you know, one of the things that was brought
up from Trump was that these white farmers, there's a
genocide going on and you actually own I think like
twenty five thousand acres, So what is going.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
On, Eugene? Can you explain what's happening?

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna rectify that I don't
own that much land, but it is adjacent to a
lot of conservation land, which can you know, I would
say it could be up to take in the tens
of thousands of hectors of adjacent conservation land to us,
but you know, it still is a bit of land
that we've got to take care of. So let me

(06:22):
let me let me answer that or put it into perspective.
When it comes to the point of trying to answer
first what is Trump and everyone else referring to us
as farmers? I'd like to just you know, clarify that discrepancy.
The minority group is the africanis and what is an
African Africana is a person that speaks a native language.

(06:44):
I think our former president had a very good way
of describing our minority group as the white tribe of Africa.
It's because as colonists, we we trekked away from black
pioneers from the Cape colony, which is this most southern
type of Africa, into the more central part of the

(07:04):
southern type of Africa, so it's more into inland, a
couple of thousand kilometers even just trying to get away
from the British colony. And we had our own language
and that is the language called Afrikaans. That is a
language that evolved over time and it's a unique culture.
And so the Afrikaanic group is pretty much Afrikaans speaking

(07:27):
with the unique culture. And the reason why we kept
on being called farmers is because of the word bor
is translated as farmer, because that's what we used to
do a couple of hundred years ago. That was the trade,
you know, so it kind of stuck as The identity
for the cultural group is the bors, the burs, you know,

(07:47):
the bus are fighting the English was the Anglo b War,
so that was the reference to us as a cultural
group as we as we kept on existing. So I
think the the next thing to explain is that as Afrikaners,

(08:10):
there is that you can get an Africa, you can
get to you can get a distinguished you can distinguish
between even make a distinguishing point between Africaners and are
conservative Christian So they're conservative Christians and they speak Africans
and they follow the culture and Africanas could just be

(08:32):
African Afrikaans speaking people that is of the same minority group,
but they might have any religious background or following or so.
So that is I would call a perspective. But it
doesn't necessarily mean that you own land or that you
are an active farmer. If you're an Africana, it doesn't

(08:53):
mean that you're an active farmer that you're finding specifically
with something order you're a big land owner. I think
that is an important distinguishing point. And a lot of
the people that came over as refugees on the first
flight to the USA, they weren't actually farmers, they weren't
actually a huge big land necessarily, but they formed part

(09:15):
of the cultural group. So I think that was the
answering your first question getting into I think the talking
about when President temp Trump was referring to genocide. I
think that is the pressure that is constantly being exercised

(09:35):
on us and the threats that are constantly being thrown
towards the Africana people by the politicians. We've kind of
been made escapegoat by politicians whereby they're saying that most
of the land is owned by Africana people because they're
still farmers. A lot of a lot of Africanas still

(09:57):
do farming, and the other have hunting hunting farms, or
they have a conservation land, or they are farming with agriculture.
And so the crime in South Africa in general is
what is you know, affects all of the people of

(10:18):
South Africa, doesn't matter where you are located, but specifically
it affects Africanas to a large degree for those living
in rural areas, especially land owners, specifically people like myself
and other farmers or people that live away from it
from metropolitan areas because we easy targets. It takes. The

(10:42):
police service is not that efficient, so it's difficult for
them to react when they get a call even if
they do have the resources to answer the phone or
they have the resources to respond to a call coming out.
And so it's made us an easy target for the
criminal element to come after or to you know, to

(11:05):
to thiev on or to burglarize. But there are also
other elements connected to the attacks on Africanas which can't
be explained, and I'll get into that in the second.
This comes down to why President Trump was referring to

(11:26):
it as a genocide and why some of the civil
society groups are referring to it as a genocide. I
can explain that. Maybe you've got to follow up before
I get into that.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well, some of the numbers that I found it was
like two and a half million white, sixty million blacks.
And then I found a stat that said seventy three
percent of the farmland was owned by white.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
So does that sound right?

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Those stats that you know I wanted to right?

Speaker 2 (11:55):
So well, you can say that seven percent of the
popular that is what our minority group is down to
population size because we are under pressure, That is right.
But the land and the specific reference to land ownership
of how much of the land is still being held

(12:17):
by Africans as active farmers. Those numbers aren't actually accurate
because a lot of the land is owned by the government.
A lot of land, more than eleven thousand farms went
through a land reform program where it was already transferred.
So the land reform program that happened in the decades

(12:38):
proceeding where we are now, there was a large land
reform program and more than eleven thousand farmers from active
farmers were transferred to previously disadvantaged communities or communities that
were moved away from the land during their apartheid periods,
or if they could prove in some way that they
were moved at some period in history.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
So what does that mean to you giving it back
to black the black South Africans.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Is that where you're saying, that's right, You're.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
You're going to you're gonna call it a for what
it is. They were disadvantage at the time where there
is the government decided that this is This comes back
down to why the apartheid regime decided to create homelands
or you know, areas for specific cultural groups. That was

(13:30):
the intention of apartheid. Uh, you know that went in
a different direction. It wasn't successful, it wasn't a model
that worked successfully. I think that everybody agrees with that
in the end, simply because that creating homelands four cultures
and having a centralized government just didn't didn't fit with

(13:51):
everyone of the especially with all the different tribes. We're
talking about more than eleven different unique tribes here in
so that Africa and languages and you know, having one
centralized government and then being Africanas. That just didn't work
in the apartheid, the apartheid model that was created, but

(14:14):
you know, the apartheid resumed during that period and before that,
even they while they were trying to create these homelands
for the different cultural groups, they moved people off of
specific lands because they were trying to create zones or
areas or regions for specific tribes. I'm calling it tribes,

(14:34):
but it's specific cultural groups. And there was already there
was a redistribution program or land reform program where some
of this land was transferred from an active farmer and
it went to a community they used to live there.
If they could prove that they used to own the land,
then it was transferred. So there was a land reform

(14:55):
program that was incredibly unsuccessful. When I said unsuccessful, I
mean the land was transferred to a community and farming stopped.
So nine five percent of the eleven thousand farms that
were transferred stopped being stop producing, and so you've it's
terribly sad to see some of these places full, you know,

(15:18):
with extremely successful farms that have just been completely neglected.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
So is it because they didn't have the skill set
skill set when it was transferred back.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
There's there's a variety of things. Now you have a
group of people that have to try and manage a
farm together, and you're talking about they've they've never necessarily
been commercial farmers. They don't necessarily have the management skills
for that. And the land reform program that the government
brought to be didn't necessarily put all of those elements

(15:55):
into place which would would have made it successful. I
mean that is in the you know, if you had
to take have to break it down to why programs
like this are unsuccessful, it's because of education and because
of knowledge transfer. If that isn't done successfully at a
root based level where the new and up and coming

(16:18):
younger population and also the people that fit certain roles
in society, if the knowledge isn't transferred to them, they
don't possess the skills to do a certain job set,
then you're going to have a problem. It's going to
break down. And I think another thing is access to
capital as well. Why would banks or places borrow money

(16:41):
towards farmers because let's face it, that is how farmers
make a living. They borrow, they invest in the farm
and if they're unsuccessful, they will lose that land. If
the crop doesn't come out as a child and they
don't have the necessarily margins to survive, then they'll lose
that land. So that is how the free markets system works,
and South Africa works with a free market system and

(17:04):
access to capital has been a problem for the farms
that were transferred because they didn't necessarily get the ownership
of the land. The state holds the land. They transfer
the use of the land to the people or the
new the new inhabitants that will that that get the
land back that they used to have. They could prove

(17:27):
it and they, you know, they necessarily make a success
of it because they couldn't get access to capital. They
didn't get the ownership of it, so they can't a
loan on the land. So it's hard.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
It's hard to believe that the government doesn't doesn't see
the loss of productivity. You know, when these farms go
fallow and there's no crops, you know that that means
there's no job to go with that, because you know,
you're not employing people out there, you know, to work
work on the farm and do the harvest and do
food processing. You end up with food shortages in the

(17:58):
country because you're not producing the food again and you
have to get the food from somewhere. So now you're important.
Does the government not see that that problem or is
it is it just the social aspect of it of
you know, the and I like the word that you
use tribes because I think there's a very strong tribal
element to this. That they need to be satisfied with

(18:20):
giving them back the land and whether they do anything
with it or not is kind of irrelevant to the
whole process.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
There's again there's a couple of a couple of elements
to this. I think that the government, the government should
see that. But you have to understand that the farmers
are extremely good at what they do. The ones that
are currently farming, the ones that are in business, they
are extremely productive. They can take the land, they can

(18:51):
make it more effic they can. They they evolve in
the farming practices and they can they can grow on
what they have, they can make it more efficient. I
can put it that way. And so you know, I've
got a lot of farming friends within my community. I
know that actively as they become more successful, they try
and get more land, they try and expand on their farming.

(19:14):
They're farming practice or whatever the situation might be, you know,
whatever they are into. And because of that, there's been
no food shortages, if I can put it that way.
So even the loss of those eleven thousand farms, the
farmers have just been keeping up with the pace and
they but it's not been made easy on them. The

(19:38):
pressures that we're talking about. We haven't even gotten into
talking about the pressure yet. And I'm going to give
you on the ground perspective of that pretty soon. But
I can tell you that it's it's wonderful living in Africa.
It's wonderful living in South Africa. You know, I always
say that there's a cost that living in there's a
cost to living in paradise. We've got fantastic whether we've

(20:03):
got very fertile so well, we've got an amazing country.
We've gone most beautiful countries in the world. And I
think it's up to the people whether that's they make
that sacrifice. Are you willing to stay here even though
the government is pretty much doing everything that they can
to ruin it for us. You know, you can see

(20:25):
the crime and you can see the disproportionate effect that
it has on the farming community. And this is the
point I'm going to get to. You can you can
hear the President of South Africa and you can hear
the other politicians always refer to the fact that there's
no genocide on South African farmers or boors or however

(20:50):
they refer to them. They keep on with this narrative
that there's no genocide. Uh, there's there's there's no disproportionate
crime wave towards them. Well, there's two things. One, it's
more rural, so there is more pressure. But number two
is they can't explain the torture. Why these attacks on

(21:11):
the farmers are always so incredibly brutal. I mean, these
are the types of killings that you would not worse
on your you wish on your worst enemy. This is
something that you would think of, well, straight out of
a horror movie. Most of these attack scenes or straight
out of a horror movie. They the farmers are often

(21:31):
tortured for hours. There's there's you know, some of the
images are removed from the Internet, but it's not too
difficult to find images of what these attacks look like.
I don't think your audience wants a description of how
incredibly brutal it is. But in a sense, that has

(21:54):
become a psychological pressure cooker on the africaners because they've
got to ask themselves, are they're going to keep facing
this face this risk. For the last twenty five years,
I've never been, you know, on my farm, I've never
been further away than six or seven feet from a rifle.

(22:15):
It's just the way a rifle or a firearm, it's
just the way of life here. You've got to make
do with that adjustment that you have to always be
ready for whatever comes your way or for an attack,
and that has an incredible psychological effect on the words
and the africaners. They and that's why I'm saying that, yeah,

(22:40):
go ahead, well.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
You've go ahead and finish your statement, and I've a
follow up.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, I'm just saying that that is why a refugee
program makes sense. And why also a lot of people
would be willing to stay is you've got to make
that choice. Some people might might just say I can't
take this anymore, I can't take the psychological pressure anymore,
and that I simply can't live with the fact that

(23:08):
my family might be facing that. I speak often to people,
and often to farmers, where they just said that they've
they they can't imagine that happening to uh, you know,
the the their daughter, you know, their daughters or you know,
their spouses being raped in front of them. They can't
imagine that situation happening to them, So they'd rather not

(23:32):
live on the farm anymore. Right. So, when this got
into the international spotlight, UH, and the refugee program got
into existence, I think that the you know, the people
had a choice finally, and there there is light now
shining on this subject and people are learning what we

(23:52):
have been experiencing for a very long time. UH, And
to to a lot of people are shocking, And to
a lot of people, it's so shocking that they just
refuse to believe it. And that is that's just insane
to me. I think the media's response has just been
crazy about this, saying that that that is just not
a reality, It's not an existence, it's a figment of

(24:14):
our imagination. It's a crime thing in South Africa. And
you know, I'll get back to that point where that
also makes no sense at all.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Just real quick on that is black on black violence
very similar? I mean, you know, you got the tribal aspect,
which you know, in tribal violence through history has always
been very very violent, you know, as far as trying
to eliminate genocide, if you will, one tribe over another.
Is that is the black on black violence to the
same degree, or is just just unique to the black

(24:48):
on white It.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Comes back, tous. It comes back to Roonica's question a
little bit earlier, where she was asking, is the government
ignoring this? We you know in a sense that the
policies have created an unemployment rate that is more than
forty percent, so of the population is unemployed. Just think

(25:10):
about how dramatic that is. Where do those people have
to make a living? They become easy targets for crime
syndicates to recruit. And therefore that and those policies are
directly the government's policies are directly responsible for that we'll
get into the policies on why you know what policies

(25:30):
you know played into this, But the fact is that
you're asking if it's mostly black on black and you're
talking about more than eighty percent of the population is
a Native Africans. So there's a there's like I said earlier,
there's a lot of different cultural groups. It's not necessarily

(25:51):
that the cultural groups have conflict with one another. It's
the fact that you know, it's South Africa has become
a very modern society, very reflection of a Western society
in the sense of how the country has organized logistics,
you can live where you want. It is a modern
society in that sense. So the criminal, the criminal element

(26:13):
in criminal syndicates that is really you know, depending on
where you live in South Africa, it affects disproportionately different areas.
I would say that the more they are in poverty,
the larger the criminal effect would be on that community.
But again when it comes to farming communities, even in

(26:37):
those areas, they would be affected more dramatically because they
are further away from the reaction of a police force
or a private security force or something like that.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
So Eugene, you're saying these attackers on these farmlands, they're
just a criminal component. There's no organized that's pushing this,
trying to run out the white farmers.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
I'm going to tell you directly that this is also
something that's different. We talked. I spoke a little bit
earlier about nobody can explain why the torture happens on
the africaners when they're attacked on the farms. And something
that's been very silent on secondly, is that you have
you don't have the government exercising political rhetoric on other

(27:27):
cultural groups. They're just exercising and making and directing their
rhetoric for election purposes or for whatever they you know,
the their schemes are. They're making the Afrikaners a target.
And it's you know, I heard the one politician in

(27:49):
the White House. They're saying that, well, there's small groups,
we're just trying to keep them out of parliament. As
a South African politician, I was saying that, so we're
just trying to keep these these little smaller political parties
out of governments so that because if they do, then
it's going to be terrible that I'm not you know, verbatim,
I'm not, you know, it's not the direct words that
he used. Let's just put that into perspective. It's the

(28:13):
number two number. Sorry, it's the third and the fourth
largest parties in political parties in South Africa that has
manifestos that deals directly with land restitution and targeting Africanas
taking their land and redistributing it to the population. However

(28:33):
they would want to do that, but definitely taking it
away from white people and from Africanas. That just you know,
and it also makes no sense in that sense because
it's not just Afrikaans speaking people that owns land. It's
English speaking people as well. But they've made us that
target simply because we were connected to the history or

(28:54):
the previous regime and the aposite regime there was Afrikaan's regime.
So they've made that a focus and the target for
them in their rhetoric, their political rhetoric. That's the Economic
Freedom Fighters is the one party. They took ten percent
of the vote. And the new party that was just
established by the previous president is the Quantises Party and

(29:17):
they took i believe about fourteen percent of the votes.
So you put those two together, they are kind of
competing for who has the most radical rhetoric, and I
think it's Jordan Peterson that said it basis, take people
for what they take them seriously for what words they use.

(29:37):
If somebody indicates or has a manifesto or tells you
that they are going to do you harm, then take
them at phase value for what they said. And this
is exactly why I believe the American government reacted in
the way they did by saying that there's a genocide.
Genocide is not necessarily happening right now, but you have

(29:58):
so many politicians that are talking about it, that are
specifically using words about it, and it's getting worse. Like
you know, there's there's several sources that you could read
up on on how genocide happens, but you can see
that build up happen with the actions of these politicians
and by the actions of individuals with in society that

(30:23):
have started to use language which are is really you know,
it's way past the norm, way past the norm. Take
for example, this this this one personality that his name
is not to Blois, and he he went he would

(30:44):
go on to a podcast and he would call white
people sub human, call them. It's like negotiating with dogs.
I believe it was the words that he used. He
would call us Neanderthals. There's no point talking to us
anymore or dealing with us anymore, because we are subhuman.
We've become an infurious spe season. We're not to be

(31:06):
dealt with anymore directly. And where's the consequences for language
like that? Where's the consequences from the government and from
the justice system to try and eliminate elements like this?
Exactly what President Trump said when he said, why is
the leader of the Economic Freedom Fighters not arrested for

(31:26):
singing the kill the killed the farmer and inciting violence?
Why is there no justice happening? And you see, the
justice system has proclaimed that that song was a struggle
song during the revolution called the revolution. There was no
actual civil war, but it was a peaceful transfer of power.

(31:50):
But that's of no consequence. They're allowed to sing that song,
make the rhetoric and within the same context. And this
is again unbelievable that the media ignores this. How can
you let politicians sing this while in the same context
they would have, you know, do interviews saying that they

(32:14):
would not call for a genocide. Yet you know, they
wouldn't necessarily call for the killing of white people. Yet,
for example, there's some of the words that I'm quoting
now from some of these politicians. So if you put
all of these things together, it forms a context, and
it forms a picture that makes people nervous, specifically of

(32:37):
this minority group. And I don't agree in the sense
of and I can speak from both farmers. You know,
you get to the farmers that want to say the
politically correct thing. I don't believe in talking in political correctness.
I'm just going to give it to you straight. And
I would say to you that I don't agree with
trying to, you know, play nice and said that. I would,

(33:01):
you know, it's fine, don't worry about it, We'll deal
with it.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Uh. These people aren't characters to be taken seriously. It
is exactly as serious as President Trump said it was.
The refugee program is necessary for people that aren't able
to defend themselves or aren't able to form, you know,

(33:27):
assimilating communities whereby they can have protection or feel more safe.
And those that do have the ability and the resources
to do that, well, they might feel inclined to stay.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
I lost you guys again, I think, yeah, Okay, you're
saying yeah, So I guess my question is because you're
is it seventh generation on your farm? And then what
happens and how many times have you been attacked? And
what happens if you actually kill someone on your farm?
Are they going to come take you and put you
in jail even though you didn't cause this.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
I'm going to give you My perspective is that thirteen
generations in South Africa from my mother's side, in about
seven generations in my father's side, So I do have
a British element to my family bloodline, which is where
the surname comes from. But the reality stays the same
for us, like any farmers, is that how do we

(34:30):
combat this? Now? The private security industry is twice the
size of the armed forces and the police force combined.
Just think about that. So in my sense, here on
my farm, I'm fifteen minutes away from the closest city,
and we have quite a few people that live here

(34:53):
because on this specific conservation property, because they have to
take care of the chimpanzees. You've got them. You've got
staff members that have assigned roles that will, you know,
take care of the animals, et cetera. So it's quite
a large and professional property in that sense where these
empties are operating. And then my family as well that
lives on the farm, separate houses, et cetera. The reality

(35:17):
is is that if we pick up the phone and
we try and you know, if there's a obviously there's
a if we if if we are alerted to some
form of incursion on the property, and how often has
that happened. I can tell you that there's been a
major uptick in that. Since October until now, we've had

(35:38):
six incursions onto the property by a criminal syndicate. Uh
are you're talking about a gang of up to seven
armed men. Three of the three the incursions was a
armed attack where shots were fired and one of the
incidences and two of the incidences didn't didn't you know,

(35:59):
just a pure circumstances didn't result in a shoutout simply
because of where how I try and respond and not
being able you know, them escaping in time so that
we don't meet each other on the property. Because obviously,
if I get a panic call from someone on the property,

(36:21):
I'm going to respond. I don't care what the law says,
and I'm not going to let somebody else's life be
taken because they're not able to to, you know, to
defend themselves. So I have to respond, whether it doesn't
matter how big the forces that attacks. So we had,
you know, there's a very large investment by the Jangle
Institute here where they got it's a crazy amount of

(36:44):
money which most people can't afford. Thermal cameras that just
cover threatened sixty degrees of every direction of coming closer
to the venue and where people have. It becomes it
becomes quite an investment in quite an endeavor to try
and protect the people. But then what is the reality
if I was to, you know, break the cardinal rule

(37:06):
of you never live in your own home when you
know there's a there's an incursion. Now I have to
do that. Number one, you shouldn't do that, But I
have to do that. Now, what is the police response
going to be is? And in South Africa's case, the
you really beholden on the on the officer that you're
going to meet afterwards. If there was a shooting that

(37:28):
took place, that you defended somebody else's life, how that's
going to be treated. And a lot of farmers have
been under pressure because they've responded to attacks and we're
arrested immediately and taken to jail. They lose access to
their firearms and they've just done what they had to
to be able to protect their loved ones. So we

(37:48):
really have this kind of situation where we have the right,
according to the law, to protect ourselves, but we're not
sure how they is going to play out post an event,
if we even survived that event. So the uptick in

(38:10):
the amount of cases is the worrying factor from you know,
talking about half a year less than half a year
or half yer six six incursions of which three were armed.
That just puts it on the edge. And you're talking
about large forces, not one guy with a pistol or
something like that, and it's unacceptable. It's unacceptable.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
Yeah, So the government response is a government response sympathetic
or or are they are They just like, well, that's
too bad, you know for you kind of thing is
when needs entering to happen.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
They know there's crime in South Africa, that's the way
they describe it. There's no focus whatsoever on the farming community.
There's no effort, no, you know, it's like turning a
blind eye to it, and you why would they pay
attention to it if their political rhetoric is all about
making us a target at the same time, So what

(39:12):
does that tell you? And I think that's where the
international pressure comes from with President Trump. Where's this pressure
coming from, Is that there needs to be focus on
this minority group or on this specific point. You guys
can't keep turning a blind eye towards the dangers these
people are facing because they're crying out for help. It's

(39:37):
been heard now. I'm telling you. You know, I'm kind
of like in trouble when I say when I say this,
it's kind of like what the US government's response been
to is alright, we're telling you do something about this,
and it's still the same response. It is flabbergasting to
hear the president of South Africa come back here to
South Africa and ignore everything that was discussed in the

(39:59):
World House when Prison Trump was playing that video to them,
it was just and and and and then, and it's
just it becomes a lawable situation. How how were supposed
to respond to this? And you just love to these guys.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
But well, you know, you could tell you can tell
his seriousness. You know when he when his comment back
to Trump was well, I don't I don't have an
airplane to give him.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
It's like, well, and on top of that are horrific
liberal press that John and I tried to slay dragons
every We try to slay them every day. They kept saying,
this was a diplomatic ambushing of the South African president.
That literally was except for like Fox News Newsmax and

(40:44):
like another conservative network that was their what they kept saying,
a diplomatic ambushing of your your your president. So so
what does it feel like because you're this white africanner
and uh, you know, and then we have our Democrats
that they don't don't want to welcome the white Africaners
that have come to America because their skin's white.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
And I'm well, I'm response. I was elated with President
Trump's effort in the White House. There was elated by it,
and so was everyone else that I was spoken to.
So anybody tells you that they didn't appreciate the fact
that this was discussed openly and so you know, so

(41:30):
so to the point, you know, it was directly this
is what's happening. What is your response? Why are these
people not being arrested, and they're just going to go
back to the fact that, like you said, the first
thing that Romoposa did when he came back to South
Africa was to say, well we the court said that
it was a legal struggle song, so therefore these guys
can continue doing it. Nothing about the other context, the

(41:53):
fact that they do speeches whereby they villainize us still
and still get away with ref referring to us. Like
I spoke to you earlier about this other guy's comments,
that still continues on. I mean, yeah, there's no repercussions
really about apologize or something like that, but it continues on.
So we personally, I was elated that that came out

(42:16):
in the open because maybe, you know, if we can
have honest conversations, honest actions can take place afterwards. But
definitely there's the diplomatic pressure that is required on this
government for action to be taken for some form of
moral justification. So some form of moral how would you

(42:39):
call it, if they if they don't if they don't
care about us, if they don't care about us as
a minority group, at least the pressure from somebody else
like the American government, maybe that would cause some change
that is forced upon them so that the situation can change.
But change is necessary, definitely.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Well, one of the stories I read Elon Musk, he
kind of scoffed South Africa because he said he can't
even have a Starlink company there because he's not black.
So so what is that like to be in the
prejudice minority? You know, because our country, you know, it's
always people are always saying that we don't like black people,

(43:23):
which John and I were in the military and we
bleed red, so I don't care what your skin color is.
But I you know, I've never felt prejudice, and I'm
scared for you. You know, John and I are pro
Second Amendment. You know, my little motto is always be packing,
And oh boy, would I be packing in South Africa
and I shoot bullseye.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
So you know, I can't even imagine.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
I feel like you're you're in the crosshairs, Eugene and
your family, and I would be so scared. And like
you said, when they when they have invaded some of
these farms, the crimes have been so brutal towards the families.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
And the rapes and the murders. So I don't know why.
I'm scandalized.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
That's why I wanted to have you on because from
what I've heard and seen on X, which you know,
always gets the message out through Elon, who I adore,
My heart's aching for you. I'd be scared to be
an African or white person in South Africa.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Well, you know, the American government is given is given
our people hope in more than one way. If the
pressure is too much, if your situation is too dire.
In the second, you know, your second tier citizenship that
we have, and it really is a second tier citizenship
that we have the Constitution that was formed and agreed

(44:47):
upon when there was a peaceful transfer of powerteen nineteen
ninety four, that wasn't seen through in the sense of
equality for all. It was a quality all. Immediately it
went into the Black Economic Empowerment Program, which was what

(45:09):
they called was you know some you know, making up
for past injustices. So there's a sec a two tier
system where suddenly white people became unemployable and it became
worse over time. So companies get scorecards whereby they get
a rating for the people that they employing. And you

(45:32):
have to you know, if you want to be able
to get contracts or work with certain other companies. It
could be forced upon you that you need to have
a certain score in your black empowerment, a scorecard or
status in order to do business. And because of that

(45:53):
you've put you know, a white male is completely unemployable.
It's it's right at the bottom of the list. So
it's not a merits based system anymore. And that is
part of the breakdown that we have in South Africa
because almost every state owned enterprise, like you know, it
has broken down in this country. You have the military

(46:14):
isn't the complete freefall you guys were talking about being
in the military. Our military isn't freefull. I mean, most
of our equipment doesn't work anymore. Smell management, the train
service doesn't work anymore. It's free for all. It's the
corruption has been so incredibly big, it's crazy how much

(46:35):
money has been stolen and through the corrupt, corrupt processes
that none of these systems work anymore. Our national airline
has been bailed out, how many times billions and billions
has been poured into it, and they just keep on
screwting it up. And so the state owned enterprises are

(46:55):
all failures there's pretty much not a single one that
you can talk of with that as success. And the
private sector is now under pressure because the tax base
is no longer there's such a small tax base in
South Africa that has to cover the expenses of the country.

(47:15):
Now this government is trying to say, well, we can't
even come up with a budget, so we and we
have so many more plans. They're starting to pass these laws,
insane laws that they that they are just wanting to do,
equity taxes and all kinds of strange things that they
want to put into place, which frankly, I just don't
see how they how the country is going to survive

(47:37):
it if it was to be implemented. But coming back
to that, just the goal of our president to go
into a meeting with President Trump and he just passed
his law of the Expropriation Without Compensation Act, and he's
trying to defend that when President Trump asked him about that,
and he wants to explain it away like that is

(48:00):
physically the title of the law that you just passed,
but you want to try and explain it away like
it's nothing, like it's not gonna happen, and and and
and this is. This is where I say the spotlight
is so important because the justification that comes from that
is simply to say, well, we are doing this to

(48:20):
rectify past injustices. This is why we're going to be
doing this. So what is that going to look like?
That is That's what we got to ask. That's the
questions we get ask because you've got to remember this
has happened in Zimbabwe, and how did it happen in Zimbabwe?
When when the president there, Robert mcgarby, decided to take
white land and disowned the pharmacy, it was basically just this.

(48:48):
It took them him just to create that status that
the Whites are no longer to have the land. For
the people to rise up and do land grabs, they
have to understand how that happened. People just came to
the farms and kick the farmers off their land. And

(49:10):
that is it's like a complete chaotic situation. Now, when
President Trump was saying, but the land's being taken away,
it's just the articulation of that that our president, you know,
our president from a porson, then gets to defend himself
by saying, now we haven't expropriated in land. Yes, but

(49:30):
the land grabs continue. The land grabs are happening in
South Africa. They it's a successful process whereby these people
arrive in numbers at a vacant piece of land or
farm and they they are in volumes. They would go
out onto the farm and they would start knocking pegs

(49:50):
in and they would start selling it to each other.
They would start trading somebody else's land right there on
the same day, a farmer's land, and you would have
to love.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
So that is my question, Eugene.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah, is you you said that the farmers are still
producing food and things? What about like a strike to
get everyone's attention or is it just too costly for
the farmers because they you know, because they need the money.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
I mean, I don't know how do we get it?

Speaker 1 (50:20):
How do we get and then how long is this
president in office?

Speaker 4 (50:27):
So future is yeah, that is Zimbabwe. The model for
what you're going to see, you know, South Africa become.
Is that is that?

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Where this sounds? Uh? I seriously hope not. I think
that the farmers here. You know, a lot of the
Zimbobbi farmers came over to South Africa. They continued on.
So uh, let me put it to you this way.
I don't have a glass bowl like I don't I
can't give you answers of what the future will hold

(50:58):
for South Africa and how this plays out. Definitely, the
way this government is going about their rhetoric and the
other parties they're going about their rhetoric, it's pointing towards violence. Now,
I did test violence. It's not something that I think
should ever be, should ever happen, or justified. But the

(51:23):
problem is is that if they don't start, you know,
I think part of the reason why they are passing
these laws, why they so aggressive suddenly after the elections,
is because the ruling party suddenly is on the back
foot and they're losing in the elections. They're losing a
large chunk of their voting power. Their voting block has
just gone down to forty percent. But they've always enjoyed

(51:44):
a majority vote. They've always enjoyed a large margin that
they could just rule with and pass these laws and
continue on. And suddenly now they were forced into a
unity government with a party called the Democratic Alliance is
a lot more centrist, a lot more liberal, and they
represent a lot more of the interests of the general public.

(52:07):
And they really do want an economy that functions well
and they want the laws to be respected. But I
think that what the ANC is trying to do well.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
One of the things I was.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Government, Yeah, go ahead, sorry, I just want to let me,
let me just finish that. I think what the African
National Congress is trying to do is they trying to
get back voters by being more aggressive in their rhetoric
by because you have such a large unemployed population that

(52:40):
they are trying to they're trying to grab more votes
from that unemployed part of the of the population.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Well, prepping for you to come on.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Eugene Trump said that he probably wasn't going to attend
the G twenty summit, and that's supposed to be in
Johans this November. And I was kind of sad about
this because I want him there poking, poking the bear,
you know, so that we can you know, take it back.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
And when you talk about the white.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Male being unemployable, I feel like you need a Trump,
you know, because now that Trump took our country back.
John and I were petrified because we were dealing with
all this DEI crap and white males. I joked, with
all the you know, I'm Hispanic, so so I don't
have the issues that you white males have. But I

(53:34):
felt bad for all the white man men. I mean,
how many of the didn't get jobs and they weren't
hired on They were hiring people not on merit, and
it sounds like you all now have taken the baton
from us.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
So you know, I want to clean up.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
And I've had a solution that popped into my head.
I was going to say, when Trump's done, he can
run for a president in South Africa and clean it up,
because you know, I think you need a Trump.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
You need a Trump, Eugene.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
I think he's doing such a good job for you guys.
I think he should finish the job. I think you
should see it through. You should see it through. You know,
this is not It's very important to realize that this
whatever you guys are seeing about South Africa is nothing new.
We're talking about three decades worth of this continuing on

(54:25):
and being swept under the rug, being swept under the
rug because we were painted as the Rainbow Nation and
so it's just been swept under the rug. There's one
thing I want to a couple of things that I
want to bring across. You know, that's very important. The
general guy here in South Africa, the average working person
just wants to get on with the work. They get along.

(54:47):
No matter what tribe you're from, we all get along.
It's the politicians that's the problem. The people get along
just fine, but when they get it's the you know,
the the when I talk about the masses getting you know,
it's a certain part of the population that get pulled in,
they get radicalized, and they become a problem. But part
of what we're trying to achieve, we've always tried to achieve,

(55:10):
is just to continue on and get along. And the
pressure needs to be applied to the radicals, to the
politicians that are out of control. Now you were talking
about solutions. You were asking about solutions. Now's the State
Department in the US has done a great job and

(55:31):
President Trump is doing a great job. And what they're
trying to do is is to try and get South
Africa to conform to the GO Agreement for positive trade
to happen between South Africa and the US. There are
certain rules within that agreement. It's a terriff agreement. If
you guys want to do more research about that, you
can read up about it. But there's basically a favorable

(55:54):
teriff agreement for South Africa for farming produce to be
sold in the US and to be part of that agreement.
To be able to continue on that agreement, the protection
of private property needs to be respected. It's one of
the terms of that agreement and it's one of the

(56:15):
terms that this government wants to destroy. So if that's
the only thing that the government really needs to do
is to try and make sure that our government in
South Africa stays by the rules. George takes back whatever
these laws are that they've passed trying to destroy the
protection rights for private property. And if you know, the

(56:38):
reason why Elon Musk can't operate in South Africa is
because he can't get a license to operate because thirty
percent of his company needs black empowerment ownership. It needs
to have this element of ownership transferred to previously disadvantage.
But those programs are only for the elites. It goes now,

(56:59):
they're trying to come up with some different arrangement that
he doesn't have to have that ownership for company, but
he still can't get a license to be able to
operate Starlin, So I'm not sure that's going to happen.
I'm not so positive that Starlin is actually going to
operate here in South Africa because our president and his

(57:19):
party is going to have egg on their face if
they're going to try and suddenly change course on the rules.
So we're going to see how this plays out. I
don't have a glass ball. I can't tell you what's
going to happen, but definitely the pressure that your president
and your government is putting on ours by saying conform
to the rules that you've agreed to, otherwise you're going

(57:40):
to be kicked out of the go agreement. And number two,
if you want to have I mean, you have more
than six hundred US companies, very large conglomerates that are
operating out of South Africa. And if they stop operating,
that's what one of the politicians said in the White
House dead that's five hundred thousand jobs gone if the
US pulls out of out of South Africa. Remember, you

(58:03):
guys have done that once before. You've done that to Russia.
You've pulled your companies out of Russia when they went
to war with Ukraine. So it's not impossible to imagine
this happening to South Africa if this government doesn't conform
to uh to an environment and two rules that they've
previously agreed upon for the for decades. But we do

(58:25):
need change otherwise it's just gonna go. It's just gonna
keep going backwards. It's a backwards slide. We can't get it.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
So I do have a couple questions. How long is
your president in office? And then you know, do you
guys have term limits? Are your elections? Do you feel
like you have election integrity? These are things that that
John and I have fought for. The term limits.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
We have them in Florida.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
We live in Freedom, Florida, which it's lovely because nobody
can run with the football, especially when they're running for
the other team.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
So how is it.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
The same as yours? But it's same as yours? But
it's not going to change anything because this is something
that you have to understand. The African National Congress is
a revolution revolution party. They were the ones that fought
the apartheid regime. So the people keep them in part
because they're the revolutionary party. The people that they employ

(59:19):
are loyal members that were part of this organization that
were trained soldiers or were part of the resistance, if
I can put it that way. So they just get
moved on into ministerial positions whether they're qualified or not.
They're not qualified, none of them are, but they just
get shuffled around. And so you never have any qualified
people running any of the ministerial positions ever in this country.

(59:43):
And the thing is, let's say this president has gone,
you're just going to get another one that is even
more radical. I mean the one that is that you know,
I'm not going to mention his name here, No, there's
no point because we don't know if that's going to
go that way. But he's even more radical than Romopaus.
I think that Ramaposa is not even radical compared to

(01:00:04):
some of the other followers that will that will follow
up in these footsteps as as for the future, but
so this is only going to if then if the
international community and I would say the European Union, they
are the ones that are guilty right now if they
keep playing footsie with our government and allowing them to

(01:00:25):
get away with these hundred and forty two racist laws
that they have against white people, and the the government
that the economy that is just breaking down because of it.
If this is going to keep on happening, and the

(01:00:46):
if the US isn't giving South Africa handouts, it's going
to come from somewhere else. Can come from China and
come from Russian, come from the EU. Whoever's going to
keep funding them. They shortfall, they're going to be responsible
for whatever bat's going to happen in the few tre So,
if the United States keeps up the pressure, there is
a chance that we could turn this around. Because obviously

(01:01:08):
you could see from the response from the the representatives
that went to the White House, they were intimidated. They
realized that this is not a president to mess with,
and I definitely know that it's not a state department
to mess with, Mark Rubio, J. D Vance. These are

(01:01:30):
all people that you do not mess with. I think,
you know, if if you don't realize that, then well
you shouldn't be breathing. And you know, I'm just saying that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
For an Africaner who said that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
I'm saying, I've got You've got a lot of respect
for your for your politicians. I think that they.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
They've we're in love with them. It's been amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
Do you see any potential for for the rise of
a populist or charismatic type leader along the line to
say Martin Luther King in the United States. You know
where it comes out of the religious community of equality
for all and and and recognizers merit for what it is.

(01:02:18):
Do you do you see any possibility that kind of
leadership happening in South Africa?

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
No, I don't. I see I see rules being enforced.
I see that if you want to trade with our
without you know, if US South Africa want to trade
with the rest of the world, then you have to
be a free market system that respects international law and
going in this direction that they want to go down

(01:02:45):
more aggressively. Now that ship's got to be turned around.
That's only going to happen with with the figures that
you there's not going to be someone that's going to
stand up because anybody that stands up is going to
be a target for the for the politicians. That's why
you're not seeing anybody standing up really the politicians right now.

(01:03:08):
That's that's in government. You know, there's there's nobody that's
just that's lifted the baton or something that's that's going
to cause any rise in like Martin Luther king kind
of I would say movement or anything like that, and
I don't, and we don't expect that to happen either.
What we're asking for is is just get rid of

(01:03:29):
these laws and let the economy function because the people
get along just quite fine. People get along. I mean,
it's the craziest thing. I mean, the thing is that
as a tourist, if you would come to South Africa,
you would enjoy the country. You would appreciate the country.
It's just recent after the election where it became so crazy. Well,

(01:03:52):
this craziness came from and now the consequences is something
that they are facing. So let's help this turns summer.
I mean, I'm the favor optimist. One of the things
that I'm doing is is that one of the television
productions I'm working on is myself traveling across the whole

(01:04:13):
of Africa, jumping from tribe to tribe to try up
to tribe and just showcasing how incredibly warm the people
are and how well we get along. Even if you
were just to walk up into a tribe that you've
never seen or never met, you don't speak the same language,
how warm those people are in order to you know,
that they would take care of you and being able

(01:04:35):
to send you back onto your journey. That ubuntu does
exist between the average person here in South Africa and
in the rest of Africa to a large extent. We'd
like to see that continue, but it's not going to
happen with revolutionary radicals calling each other comrades and wanting

(01:04:55):
to drive back some form of vengeance or revenge or
some form of cont and making us as the minority
of the target. I did see, don't. I don't see
any positive outcome coming from that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
So, you know, just listening to you, and you know,
I became a grandmother recently, and I mean, what is
the future because listening to my children and grandchildren, I'd
be trying to get them to come to America where
there's a quality.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Is that not the answer? I mean, it breaks my heart, Eugene,
listening to the story. Just because your skin color is white,
people don't like you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
You know, I.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Don't know if i'd want my children and grandchildren to
stay there to fight the fight, because sometimes you do
have to raise up and strike and you know, and
fight back.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
I really can't tell you. I think that people need
to make a choice those that will stay behind, those
that will continue on, and I would say the large
the large majority would stole that choice to try and
make this a better place, make this country a better place.
They're hoping that if there's enough international pressure that we

(01:06:09):
can go back to something that we were hoping that
nineteen ninety four would have played out us that none
of these things would have come to pass. So there's
always that hope that things can turn around. But on
the other hand, we do now have an option for
people that feel that they just not they don't feel

(01:06:32):
safe enough that there is an out for them that
they can take President Trump's offer to be refugees and
to leave the country. They are totally justified to do that. Now.
Our president called them cowards at a recent event. He
went to a farming event and he called all of
the refugees cowards and everyone that else that applied to

(01:06:54):
leave the country to be cowards. They say the numbers
for the applications are something like seventy thousand. I can
promise you that number is going to balloon too, in
the hundreds of thousands for reproduce status. That that is
my I would say, my prediction is that that's going
to balloon if this continues on. For those that can stay,

(01:07:14):
that will stay. That one to say that our patriotic
such as myself, I do have the inclination to say
that you cannot leave people behind. They can't defend themselves.
So I wouldn't I wouldn't be inclined to to to
opt for that option, just you know, just as a

(01:07:36):
natural response. You never know what the future holds, so
I can't say that, you know, I might not even
take that off of myself. They say. The point is
that that's how ridiculous it's become. They really don't know
how this is going to play out for the future,
and it is sad. It's ad, but we're gonna you know,
I can, I can. I can honestly say that we've
got two different options. Now. We're going to fight to

(01:07:58):
make it a better place, and there's an option for
those that feel that they caught that they simply don't
they don't have a means to survive.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Well, I think to an interview like this educating people
because our liberal media has been literally awful.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
With the subject. John, what have we missed to ask you, Jane?

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
I don't know. This has been a great conversation I
think has been very enlightening about what reality is on
the ground there as opposed to what we read in
the papers and we get from our press. You know that,
you know, they make it sound like it's just a
very simple thing and there's no genocide yet because we
haven't killed one hundred thousand people yet or two hundred
thousand people aren't dead yet, you know. So the trend,

(01:08:45):
the trend line is not good.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Is what I don't understand that. That's what I don't
under That's what I don't understand. I don't understand where
some of these media outlets why they are saying what
they're saying. They get these pundits that have absolutely no
idea what they're talking about. They don't even get the
terminology right about the people there. I mean, sure they
might be the right skin color for for for you know,

(01:09:09):
to to fit as an African, to be an African
voice on a news channel, but they have absolutely nothing,
you know, no connection to the continent and the problems
and the people, and they have no idea what's going
on here. Yet that message is being trans transmitted across
the world as what's going on here, So I'm shocked

(01:09:29):
myself to look at.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
One of the things is that, yeah, well we live
in a Trump derangement syndrome world because anything Trump says
or touches or does good or.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
I mean he could.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
I mean, he's he does so much for America. He's
secured our border now, and you think that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
He's done just awful things and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
It's hell on earth at the border and it's wonderful now.
So so I think that's part of it is now
he's he's stepped into he's put his thumb into your pie,
which I I think it's a good thing, because you know,
we want equality and people to be treated nice. So
what are your final thoughts, Eugene. I mean, it's just,
you know, I enjoy which the best for you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
I enjoyed talking to you guys about it. I really
appreciate what the American people are doing. And I say
to the American people because I do think that the majority,
you know, I've only seen in commentary. Most of the
comments that I've seen online has been positive about it,
about the refugees arriving there and about settling in. Say,
you know, some negative stuff, but I mean mostly it's

(01:10:32):
all been good. So I can only thank the American
people how they've responded. I can only thank the American
people and the government that's currently in charge there for what,
for their efforts, for everything that they've done so far
for South Africa. So that as long as as long
as America feels that the guy on the street, the

(01:10:54):
average boy here in South Africa, such as myself, we can,
you know, as long as they know it's grateful, be
grateful for what you guys have done, even if it
was just that one meeting, it's it's already something because
nobody else has done that before. So we can only
say things right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Well, we've been talking with Eugene Cousins from South Africa,
and we'll have you back, Eugene, because we need to
know what the next chapter is. And we're rooting and
praying for South Africa. So God bless you and thanks
for joining Bronick Live.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Thank you, Thank you so much, guys, and I'll be
seeing you