March 18, 2025 • 49 mins
Panama City resident Hank Picken requested to come on VERONICA LIVE to discuss the hot button Beach Drive $9 Million Dollar Nightmare citizens are fighting. Hank discusses the referendum that will be on the spring ballot and shares with my listeners why we should preserve this historic road.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Vernica Live. And I'm here with my wingman,
John Salik, and today we have a special guest. He
reached out, he actually reached out to Magic Broadcasting, where
I had my radio show for three years, because he
wanted to come on and discuss this issue of the
recreational path along West Beach Drive impacting Panama City. Because
(00:24):
this has become a huge issue. So I'm pleased to
welcome Hank Pickin' to Veronica Live.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hank, nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So, so, Hank, why is this an issue? I know
Mayor Rowan has been fighting this. You know, they've redone
that whole area looks really nice, but apparently they want
to spend millions more.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So what's going on that listeners need to know? Hank?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
For about two years now, the city has been designing
and planning to build a one point five mile twelve
foot wide concrete path along the south side of West
Beach Drive, which is right along the shoreline of Saint
(01:18):
Andrews Bay, And needless to say, what is now West
Beach Drive and that beautiful natural look would be turned
into something this side of Kong Island. And as a
homeowner here obviously not the least but interested in destroying
(01:38):
the neighborhood. But more importantly, it's a great, great risk
of destroying the environment.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
All of the trees along the.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Path now along the roadway are going to be removed
and replaced by saplings, and all of those trees are
part of the wildlife and nesting trees, et cetera. And
in addition, the path would encourage swimming in the bay,
(02:14):
which is often polluted. And there's also no parking anywhere
along West Beach Drive, so that anyone using the path
would have to park on one of the side streets
and then cross West Beach Drive. Of course, West Beach
Drive is Business Highway ninety eight and by FDOT standards
(02:39):
and studies, it's twelve and thirteen thousand vehicles a day
travel on West Beach Drive and it post its speed limit.
Of course it's thirty five. And that's just simply an opinion.
Everybody does far more than that. And I can just
picture when he's parking their cars on these side streets
(03:03):
with young kids ready to use the path and crossing
the path, and accidents is waiting to happen. So there's that.
And part of the plan is to shrink the width
of West Beach Drive. It is now around twenty seven
feet wide, and their plan is to shrink it down
(03:26):
to twenty foot wide, so the lanes would no longer
be thirteen feet wide, but they'd be ten feet wide
and add a whole bunch of new crosswalks and really
destroy the traffic flow. And needless to say, ten foot
wide is fine for alloveal, but you put a fire
(03:47):
engine or any kind of emergency vehicle, trash trucks or
whatever on that road, they just can't pass each other
without bending their rear view mirrors. So you've got parking issue,
you got traffic issues, you got safety issues, and environmental
concerns is mentioned. That's also a natural berm and bus
(04:11):
bet itself, and the residents here have been protected over
the years from Hurricane Surgeon the like because of that
natural birm, which would.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Also go away.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
The city also plans to put in about one hundred
and fifty lights and one hundred and fifty lighted billboards,
so just a leather yea light pollution up up and downs,
as I mentioned Tongue in Cheek and a bit of
Coney Island, but those lights going all night long, obviously
(04:46):
not conducive to any of the wildlife that's around, let
alone disturbing the neighborhood and the natural look and feel
of the current environment. The other comment Make two is
that all of this cost of construction, they were given
a nine day the city was given a nine million
(05:08):
dollar grant to build sidewalk improvements in Panama City, and
this path, they've already spent over a million dollars in
just a design and legal fees to get it to
this point. And nowhere in that estimate is the estimate
(05:32):
of maintaining the path and maintaining the road, because the
road actually belongs to the state, it doesn't belong to
the city. And in order for the city to make
any kind of modifications, industry in the road and use
what is the state right away, not the city right
away to build the path. The state has to give
(05:55):
the road, and with that comes the responsibility to maintain.
And the city has enough problems maintaining its own currents
let alone.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And we see that because if you drive even a
little further down, there's all kinds of potholes right there
off of Harrison, and it's ridiculous. So and this whole
area I mean, because recently it was kind of redeveloped
because there's swings that's super cute.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So is this a done deal?
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Hank?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I mean, and I've you know, just drove the road
the other day and the trees are lovely, and I
just can't believe that thirteen thousand people are actually driving
that road. That just seems like such a high number.
But is it a done deal? Because you know, I've
heard talk of not allowing this to move forward and
then reallocating that money to be used somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Well, needless to say, there's a lack of transparency about
this entire project. What we can glean from conversations with
Tallahassee and versus what we hear from the city are
(07:15):
different stories. And to break it all down, they have claimed,
as about.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Two years ago that this was.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
A done deal. There were a number of residents that
were summoned to the basement of City Hall and Commissioner
Street told us that this was a done deal, that
the state had already given the city the road, and
that they were going to proceed to build a path
(07:46):
whether we've wanted it or not, and their hope was
that we would help them design the path so that
it would be something acceptable. All that transpire in March
of last year, two years ago, and then it stated
that it was a done deal. And then about two
(08:09):
or three weeks later, then City Manager General McQueen sent
a memo to the FDOT and asked to the road
to be transferred to the city. So they knew when
they presented it as a done deal in March that
it wasn't a done deal because two weeks later they
(08:30):
applied for the transfer and FDOT didn't act on for
about three months, and when the city tried to find
out what had happened, they were told by the FDOT
it wasn't a valid application for transfer because it required
a commission resolution. So in July of two thousand and
(09:01):
twenty three, you know, six months after we were told
it was a dune deal, the Commission had a commission
meeting and unfortunately the mayor was not there. He was
on vacation of that particular meeting, and again a commissioner
Street acted as active mayor for that meeting, and they
(09:24):
they camouflaged it and pretended that the state was giving
them a gift of the road, and they passed a
resolution accepting the gift and that you can go back
and you know, look a look at minutes and all
that sort of thing. But they quote unquote accepted the gift,
(09:47):
and of course it was simply not free. But the
FDC accepted that resolution as an applicat and then filed
the application for the transfer. And then the next thing
that happened is ashto which is actually controls the federal roads,
(10:13):
which at the point in time was a federal highway.
They released it to the state, so it's now just
a state highway, not a federal highway. But that was,
you know, twenty three months later, which is right about now,
and obviously over a million dollars. Commissioner Street has put
(10:35):
out a Facebook memo that says that the path is
at the brink of failure, and as a result of
the brink of failure, they put together this this referendum
for the April ballot, and less to say, I don't
(11:02):
know whether you've read referendum, but it is terribly, terribly passed.
It's all one sided that it's all how good it's
going to be without any of the risks to the
road and the environment.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Everything.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So on that note, let me just read the ref reference.
I can't even say the word today random. It says,
I know to consider state funded grant for pedestrian, storm
water and environmental improvements on Beach Drive. And it says,
should the City of Panama City use state funding to
(11:37):
make pedestrian improvements on Beach Drive and to make storm
water and environmental improvements on Beach Drive within the publicly
owned right of way, with the understanding that these funds
are restricted and cannot be used for any other purpose
or location in the city. Okay, So they're trying to
(11:58):
put their arms around it, telling me I can't use
that money elsewhere. All right, But John, go ahead, I
know you had a question. I just wanted to read this.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Well, it's so it's not clear then that the state
has agreed to give away beach drives. Is that? Is
that what I'm hearing from from your son?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, that's it's clearly clearly what we think. And in fact,
I think Commissioner street Uh knows that, and this referendum
is really out to protect him from the criticism. Obviously,
he has spent over a million dollars on designing this
(12:39):
path without having the road, which would would have been
the normal step.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
One, So is it state money? So is it state
money that he spent because this referendum saying state money
oka not local but.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
But but by the same token taxpayer, it's from out
of a different pocket, but.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
It's the and me have paid for it.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
So is there any local effort required as part of
this process? I mean usually the state doesn't just give
you a grant money without local participation or local funding portion.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
It's also a little bit of a shell game there.
The original grant was for nine point four million, eight
million coming from the state and one point four coming
from the city. And then as this project moved forward,
the one point four funding from the city disappeared, and
(13:38):
it's now going forward with eight And they've already spent
a million, as I said, in design and legal fees.
So they've got seven hundred seven million left to construct
the path. And of course anyone in the construction business
and folks in Tallahassee don't believe it can be done
(14:00):
to that amount of money. With all of the additional
bills and whistles, the lights that I mentioned, and everything
else that they've built into the plan.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Well, that that's the that's been the problem. That's been
the problem here with with with this city. And and
I'll go I'll go back to you know when Mark
McQueen was the Citney manager and just look at the
civic center. Look at the state of the Civic Center.
You know, they tried to build this taj Mahal. Instead
of fixing what we had destroyed by the hurricane, they
decided to build this thing with movable floors and all
(14:29):
kinds of crap. You know, drove the price ceiling right exactly.
We have nothing I have and these people downtown I
don't know who these people are that are that are
driving this, this this vision of what they think Panama
City should be. But it's like it's crazy, it's not sustainable,
and we can't afford it because I just I just
(14:50):
don't understand that the the money and I keep looking.
You know, my water and sewer bill is keeps going
up and up and up. You know, it's one hundred
and what twenty five dollars a month.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Now.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
These people are down there are crazy, you know, they're
so irresponsible with our money. And I don't know what's
driving this. Who is the intended user of this, because
it's sure not you know, I live over in King's Point. Okay,
I have no intention of going down there and using
this thing. And you know, if I want to go
to the beach, I'll go to the beach. I won't
go down to beach Drive.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And if you're telling me it's dirty, I'm not going
to have anybody.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Why would I want to go swim in that?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Because because how many times have we had where they
dumped sewage into these areas and it's disgusting. So yeah,
I know this is definitely out of control. So so
Hank is it? I mean, how do we stop this?
Because you know, I'm interviewing the mayor is coming on
Vernica Live for an update, and I know he's not
in favor of this. You know, the citizens that I've
(15:50):
talked to are not in favor of this.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Who's pushing this?
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Because you know people want the business. It's nine million dollars.
I just feel like everything's under construction already on Harrison Avenue,
So it's a nightmare. The poor businesses that have had
to endure all of that transformation I feel bad for
because it's already not that happening of an area.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, clearly that's the reason in my mind that this
referendum was put forth at a at a meeting about
two months ago when I was I've been domestic terrorist
and appearing at the Commission meeting.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Which citizen and.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
At one point, you know, I asked a couple of
embarrassing questions and at one point Commissioner Street said, I'm
really really getting quite quite frust traded in having to
answer these questions all the time. And you know, hey,
(17:07):
maybe he should quit.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
It's your job, man, your job, right, But I think
a little bit of this idea of putting referendum out
there is to provide a little.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Bit of smoke screen for him.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Because at the last Commission meeting, when I've put up
several questions to include why are you doing the referendum
now and not doing it two years ago? And why
have you ignored the three thousand signatures we've had on
this petition to not do the beach drivet, he just
(17:43):
said he was I'm uncomfortable with this. Well, by having
this referendum out there, he doesn't have to answer the
question put to him by any of the other commissioners,
including the mayor. Because our Secretary Jan Smith stopped the
(18:04):
mayor from following up on my questions at the commission
meeting saying that that could be considered to be political
interference because it's on the ballot.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
So I think, I think.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Everything that's political.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Exactly, but I can I can ask because I'm not
running for office, but apparently at a commission meeting it
would be considered to be too political. So at any rate,
I think part of the reason for the referendum is
that political cover. The other piece of it is, and
(18:45):
I think you put your finger on it, is to
get people to take their eye off the ball I mean,
the other problems that this city has that we should
be addressing can only be addressed if we have a
change in the leadership. The city is in financial difficulty.
(19:06):
We were told the last two Commission meetings that the
city will run out of money by the end of September,
which is the end of this year's fiscal year, and
the only way out. The only thing they're talking about
is raising taxes when they've gone through so many giveaways
(19:28):
on ways to make profit, but let alone not even
thinking about cutting costs. I can remember the very first
Commission meeting that I attended on behalf of this beach
drive deal. The mayor asked the city manager to come
(19:49):
back with a plan to cut ten percent out of
the city budget, and it disappeared down a rat hole
because time after time, time after time, the mayor is
the one vote and it's for one.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I feel bad for him because being a weak mayor
would drive me literally insane.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
And these people never vote.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
And then when I was prepping for you to come
on and he's coming on, I'm interviewing him as well,
like you know, the hatred from the good old boys.
They totally hate him, and I feel awful for him because,
you know, quite often I agree with what he's what
he's saying, and if we're out of money, why why
(20:34):
are we doing this?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You know, so somebody's driving this train.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Just yeah, but Ronica, what's rule number one in politics?
I follow funny if you want to know the truth, okay.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And two that say that on our follow the money.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
It's going to get lined here by this, by this
beach drive thing, and it's not, you know, and they're
saying and it's back to the same old story you
know about free money and and you know, airport drive,
you're ago same thing, you know, I still remember Mayor
Clements talking about the free money tree, and I asked
him to said, where is this free money tree. I'd
like to go money off that free money.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Tree for John.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
You know, they did the same thing out here at
Airport Road. You know, they built this fancy medium in
there with all these trees and stuff, you know, and
it's like, why, you know, it's a road to the airport,
which by the way, is no longer there, and and
and and that's not really used anymore. It was a
complete and total waste of money. But it lines somebody's pocket,
you know, to put in that medium and the paving
(21:35):
and all the landscaping and and all that stuff, you know.
And I'm sitting here trying to figure out, you know,
the water.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I've interviewed Jerreal McQueen so many times I lost count.
And the infrastructure to me is what's scary. And then
when we had the fires out in California, and I
know that that not all of our fire hydrants work.
To me, those are of priorities before some sinking path.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Let's talk about lift stations. Let's talk about sewage lift
lift stations in the city, and how many of them
aren't working.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
So after that one in particular, they have a plan
that they're working on, don't. I don't know how it's
going to do well.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I've been doing shows now for several this is my
fifth year of shows and it's been the same.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
Stuff, same thing we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yep, this is not done.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I'm not mad at you, Hank, I'm just I'm I'm
half Spanish. So the bullfighter comes out because especially after
when I saw what happened in California, and I know
that our fire hydrants are not up to par. You
know that to me is the priority. So how do
we fix this? Because Beach Drive right now is adorable.
I don't know why we need to fix this. When
(22:52):
you connect a little farther down connecting to Harrison, there's
fricking potholes. So those are should be the priorities and
of stations and infrastructure that are from the Roman days.
Is what what General McQueen used to say when he
came on my show.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah, And unfortunately General McQueen's background of a military
you don't really worry about money, right. There's always additional
funding for military projects as you can well as you
will now, but what what goes on here is what
(23:34):
what is on here is hiding, hiding a lot of
the truth, and people, I think really really want to
be able to point to some shining project that they've
accomplished on behalf of the city, as opposed to doing
the infamous blocking and tackling. Every every everybody.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Wants to wants to touchdown, but nobody wants.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
To do the blocking and tackling is hard to get there,
and we see it time and time again.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
They're tackling because they're also pushing that damn amphitheater with
four thousand seats and it's one hundred degrees here, and
and Jerry Sidee's not going to fly into sweat, so
and I have to travel for entertainment, So I am.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Done with with this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
So so back back to it again, I mean, is
it Is it because it's a street project?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Commissioner streets pushing it because he's scratching somebody's back.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
For sure, I don't I don't know what's pushing his button.
But he has been steadfastly championing this and actually misleading
a whole lot of people, including I think his fellow commissioners.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
As to the status of this road.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
I think he continues and suddenly he finds out that
he's being exposed and he's got some real competition for
his eat, and as a result, this referendum is being
put forth. But I've asked the question on a couple
of times. I can only only answer it, how do
(25:12):
we fix the problem. Is it's a five person commission.
The mayor has only one vote, and I can tell
you watching the commission in action, the other four commissioners
take turns beating on him, and he's the one voice
that seems to care about what the public thinks, not
(25:36):
what some consultant has told him to think.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
That we pay millions of dollars to I.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Have no I can't get a number out of the
city on how much the city has spent on basis
for consulting.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
But I do have some number.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
I mean, we have a a city manager who has
two assistant city managers, and the combined salary of the
three of them is five hundred thousand dollars. Reporting to
them is seven I think it's seven division heads, direct
(26:20):
reports and all that. You know, they have their own
staff and everything else. I'm sure that with that kind
of staff you don't need to spend a lot of
money on consultants. They should be doing this, or or
fire them all and continue with consultants. We also got
(26:44):
an average of two million dollars a year spent on
legal fees the world Panama City, and you know that's
absolutely insane.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
And part of.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
It is because a lot of these things that they're
trying to do in particularly here on Westby job has
some severe implication as far as private property rights. So
it's all part of the thing. But the way it
needs to be fixed is it needs to be fixed.
Josh Street is obviously for re election. He needs to
(27:18):
be replaced. Jenna Halligus is the other one that's up
for re election, but she's declined to run and there
are candidates to take her her spot. And then of
course we've got to re elect the mayor. Well you
have the re elected mayor, get rid of Street and
(27:38):
put somebody in Haligus seat that cares about the city and.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
The population.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Turned the whole thing around.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
One thing about about the election coming up here, you know,
there's I'm looking at the website here and it says
three fifty two people have signed signed this petition against
his path. Now usually municipal elections, we're lucky if we
get fifteen percent turnout, you know, because of.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
The municipal election, last musical election we had, we had
forty six hundred and sixty seven people voted.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
That's a pretty big number. That's way far more than normal.
But you know, the thing is there's enough people that
have signed this petition, if they show up at the polls,
they can beat this thing easily.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Well, that's all part, that's all part of the bias
that's built into this. Obviously, the three thousand plus signatures
on these petitions are not all voters. They are people
that use this road. Mister Chevron obviously doesn't have a vote,
but it's extremely important to mister Chevron to be able
(28:56):
to drive his trucks on West Beach draw Yes, otherwise
you're going to ride on on eleven Street where there
are eight eight or nine schools and eleven churches, parks
and libraries and everything else. Just fifteenth Street where we
got that malfunction junction.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Well, well that's the thing is that commercial you know,
adding that commercial traffic in into town, you know, basically
up up Harrison and stuff is just that's nuts, you know,
it really it's.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Been a cluster now for a long time with that redo.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
So and then eventually they're going to do that little
that little area coming off of Harris is going to
be redone too, and that's.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Going to be you know, you've got all You've got
all that that commercial people. Forget about all the commercial
district down there, as you point out, you've got the
Chevron terminal down there, You've got Coca Cola people, You've
got the Daffin supply. I mean, you've got a whole
bunch of commercial stuff in there that that distributes out
from that area exactly.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
And those those people are not going to vote. A
couple of them live here, but the majority of them
are live someplace else and work here.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
So so, so the way to win it then is
to elect mayor the mayor.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And then I've got the names. Who's who are the
one who is running against Street. I've got Ed Young.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Ed Young is running for Halligas's whole seat against the Yeah,
against the Street, specifically as a gentleman by the name
of Demetris Reed.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Okay, I got yeah, okay, Demetrious okay, okay, got it
all right. So he's who people need to to elect.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Then those two people I've talked to personally and I
know for sure they're committed to transparency, which is you
step one is to start telling the truth about these
different projects and the stuff that's going on behind the
curtain and the camouflage. It's just astounding to try to
(31:12):
try to get answers from either the commissioners directly or
from the city elsewhere. It's it's a show game. You
pick up one show and it's gone.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
But it's hard to see.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
But the rest of my knowledge, we have one hundred
and seventy five million dollars in debt. We're paying ten
million dollars a year in interest, and the total budget
of the city is about is about one hundred million dollars.
(31:46):
See a debt it's three quarters greater than the actual revenue.
Sort of sounds like Washington, d C.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
But yeah, exactly. Well, and that's the thing even you know,
even when you look at the Washington DC budget, you know,
all these grants programs and stuff, you know, I mean,
there's lots of them out there and stuff. But I
think you're going to see the trend in the next
few years with with Trump wanting to balance the budget,
and I think they're going to see stuff like that
drying up, you know, the FEMA particularly like the FEMA
(32:20):
money and stuff, and you know, I think we need
but you know, what they're following is really a history
of the way Panama City works. I mean, go back
along as long as I've been here. That's the way
Panama City has always worked, you know, passing, you know,
the commissioner passing their their pay increases. You know, right
before the hurricane, you know, in the emergency meeting, when
nobody was paying attention, it's like, oh, yeah, to give
(32:41):
ourselves a pay raise while while we're here doing emergency
declarations for hurricane, you know, when nobody's watching. I mean,
the stuff that's gone on in the city is just astonishing,
and it still goes on.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah, you know, that's why we need a total change of.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Personnel.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
And as I said, you know, it's not one, it's
not one voter, it's it's got to be three. It's
got to be a package deal, right, three of them,
and then then it becomes a three to two vote
and we can start getting some sobriety back management.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
I just I just like to see him get that
budget under control. You know, and address the essential problem first.
I know they're not shiny things, you know, but it's
what it's what we pay local government for. Is you know,
I want water, I want decent roads, and I want
the garbage page.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
And I also want entertainment, and I don't have a
dance civic center.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
So I'm angry.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And then the Martin to me, is way over budget
and like thirty five million, and why are we funding
a restaurant in this I mean, to me, this is
out of control and wasted money. It's just we've got
to get the right people in there.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Hank.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Let me let me take you through a couple of
nuts and bolts on that one too, because one of
the things that happened when that civic center was originally
FEMA offered to restore it, but the city said.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
You know, we want a taj Mahal.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
We want not only a theater, but we also want
a convention center. And instead of accepting the offer, and
my memory is it was around thirty six million that
they were offered to restore the building, then their infinite wisdom,
they went out and found an engineer that condemned the building.
(34:31):
And because it was condemned. Then FEMA said, well, we
can't repair it. So they offered the city sixteen million
dollars for the market value of the property. And they
the city turned around and took the sixteen million dollars
and put it into the Martin Theater project. And what
(34:53):
they've done it was sixteen hundred seats in the original
Civic Center and there are four hundred seats in Barten Theater,
So you're going from a popular venue into a in
the a closet.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
So well, and we used to have traveling Broadway and
Jerry Seinfeld I actually saw in our civic Center my children,
my daughter would dance with the Russian Ballet. So four
hundred seats is not enough, and thirty five million dollars
is absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
This goes back.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
To when they moved the city the city office without
a damn conference room, which was embarrassing. And that was
that was over budget as well. Again, I don't know
who these people are in charge.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Put me in charge. That's the thing, Veronica. You know
when you when you look at things like the Civic Center,
you know that I belonged to Panama City Music Association.
For godness, how many decades, okay, and uh, you know,
but but I mean that's like a who who in
Panama City, And and the stuff we had down at
the Civic Center was world class you know, arts, and
(36:06):
and that's gone. You know, that's that we don't you.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Need something that seats a couple thousand people.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Not right, right, and that the place would be packed,
you know, it'd be upstairs and downstairs to be packed
with people, you know, for the for those you know,
broadway shows and operas.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
And and and and everything.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
And and that's that's the kind of.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Thing I think in seven years, and I don't have entertainment,
and and then now we're talking about this madness which
which we have the Lynnhaven Path. Now that's done, okay,
So it's not like we don't have things for people
to do. And nobody's thinking of the overall economic you know,
(36:46):
of Panama City. So so, Hank, is there anything we
can do besides voting these people out and keeping mayor
rowing in?
Speaker 4 (36:57):
I think, more more than anything else, is too is
to share the knowledge. I think people need to know
what's been going on behind the curtain so that we
don't focus so much attention on.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Defeeding the referendum.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
They forget what bone had investments or lack of investments
these people have made. Are you aware of the hotel
and restaurant deal that's down on City Hall of the
City Pier. They gave the developers of that hotel and
(37:30):
I don't know who they are, but they gave the
developers in that hotel and that restaurant the ninety nine
year lease and the property with no down payment and
no annual minimum payments. And they're supposed to share profits.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
With the city.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
And we have asked at least three times in various
commission meetings how much the hotel and restaurant has paid
back to the city. But basically, I got a free
ride some very very very valuable property.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
So there's that. And then then the more recently.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
The city bought a piece of property on Chestnut Avenue
in Saint Andrews and they paid over two hundred thousand
dollars more than the appraised value of the property, knowing
full will.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
And who would allow that? Who would allow that?
Speaker 4 (38:26):
I mean four commissioners, I mean literally, it's lining somebody's
pocket for a mere two hundred k.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And the funny thing is, I was so happy when
the Indigo Hotel came in there. I go to a
lot of events there. It's a forty million dollar hotel.
But now they don't even do lunch there because they
weren't even getting the traffic.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
There, you know. So that's the thing. This is so frustrating.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
Well, I think it comes down Veronica, that that you're
what you're dealing with here is either incompetence or or
just flat flat out crookedness, I mean as in money
changing hands.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Well, and now when.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
The mayor comes those impact fees that now they're trying
to put on all the developers that are developing new
homes and new commercial properties, and they're you know, the
developers are already here locally have like all of their
prices under Biden have gone up for steel and wood
and everything. And this is another little sly thing because
(39:27):
I'm friendly with a bunch of developers that they've tried
to like slap on and sneak in, so everything's like this,
let's sneak it in. Nobody will notice the thing. And
they've held now two workshops trying to push this forward.
And like one little house a development is going to
be like ten k for a house, So guess is
going to have to pay that. It'll be the person
(39:47):
buying the house that's already strapped for money out of seball.
Speaker 5 (39:52):
I don't I don't mind. I don't mind some of
these impact fees, you know, I don't why, No, they're
so excessive. Yeah, but versus the cost of the houses
that you know, and and the way they're building houses
in Panama City with these multi fens, that's a whole
other show. Okay, we've got we've got to controversy in
our area out here in King's Point over over these
(40:14):
this multi family you know, small lot development crap that
they want to put in out here, which is really inconsistent.
But you know, the developers that because they can sell
a lot of houses with small lots you know, kind
of kind of you know, like Sweetwater Bay over there,
where the houses are built on top of each other.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Basically, do you know.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
The giveaway associated with that sweet pay deal.
Speaker 5 (40:40):
Yeah, they gave they gave the land away for nothing,
you know, and and and you know the supposedly, you know,
the the promise was all this building and property taxes
and all this stuff that the city would would that
is city, right.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
But now now they're getting into a sharing of incremental
melorium taxes for forty five percent goes to the developer
and forty five percent comes to the city of any
kind of increase at war of tax So you.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
Know, and that that's a that's a cr right is
that was that one of the cras?
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Remember it's a while.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
I don't remember, but that was something that the Commission
passed within the last either the last Commission meeting or
two meetings ago.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Wow, how do they How did they get away with that?
Because the only way you can do the only way
you can do revenue sharing and targeted toward an areas
of c R supposedly mm hmm again it was when
were you running for office, Hank, But you know all the.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Ins and outs of this, and your average person like like,
you're just telling me numbers, and I know the mayor
is going to know the numbers too when I reinterviewed
him and I've interviewed him about I mean, two million
in freaking legal fees? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I mean, what is going on in Panama City? You know,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
This just seems so excessive all of these things.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
And and nobody's nobody's prepared to look inside and say, Okay,
how are you going to save a lot of money
as opposed to raising taxes? That I am certain that
this bunch gets re elected, We're going to we're going
to end up with a tax increase in September.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Well, and we know that they're originally ran against that
fire tax because people were ticked about that because that
was hurting the little man.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
And then I know these these impacts and hurting you know.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
I mean every time you turn around, it's taxes, taxes, taxes.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
What is man's question for Hank because you're at all
these meetings and what is he doing? Because I you know,
when when it came down to Jonathan Hayes, you know,
there was all these resumes and I kept saying, let's
get somebody from outside of here that thinks big. And
I didn't think his resume matched the job. I didn't
(43:07):
think his resume matched the job at all. So so
am I wrong on this?
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Well?
Speaker 4 (43:14):
I unfortunately I didn't see the other resumes, but I
have seen mister Hayes in action, and I wouldn't hire him.
It just he is not truthful. And there are a
number of issues that he's pretended that he's on top
(43:37):
of he pretended from from day one he didn't need
FDOT approval or transfer of the road to build a
path and to what extent. And he's also pretended that
they have a number of petitions that are in favor
of the path that offset the three thousand that we have.
(44:00):
And yet when push comes to show show show us
your hand, Uh, it's it's a list of names with
an address of U. S. A. You know, it could
be it could be a page out of a phone book.
But you know, it's it's not just it's not just
the putting putting forth phony information, but it's it's allowing
(44:23):
the commissioners to make decisions based on that kind of information.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Oh, this is a sad state of affairs, honestly it is.
Speaker 5 (44:32):
But you know, we have we have a we have
a you know, it's just a form of the government.
Though you know, we have a strong city manager week
week mayor. You know, the mayor is really more nothing
more than a commissioner at large, basically a ceremonial but uh,
and and people don't don't seem to understand the mayor
doesn't run anything, and and the city the city commission
(44:53):
is not any stronger than the people you vote to
put on it. In a lot of cases, you know,
the city manager runs things and and you know, I
also live up in George. I'll give you a good
example here one one city up there, Villa Rica. There
was this huge controversy and the city manager was doing
stuff behind the city council's back, and finally the city
council manned up and fired him, which was like unheard of,
(45:17):
you know, and and and that's kind of I think
what we need in this case is we need a
new city council that'll get in there and take some
action and kick some butt and and and you know,
be accountable for a change.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Well, Hank, I want to I want everybody to go
to the website. It's Preservebeach drive dot com. And now
I know you're going to share this interview with the world.
I just think people need to know what's going on,
and it's and it's on your you got to vote.
We've got April twenty second, we've got two commissioners, and
(45:50):
and this referendum on this piece of land property that
we're talking about. And I think, honestly, the money because
I've asked the mayor about it before the money could
be allocated somewhere else. And there's there's other things that
Panama City needs the money to be used for, live stations,
fire hydrants, and freaking potholes that I've driven over right
(46:14):
right right next to this road that's already lovely.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
So what are we missing? Hank? As we wrap our segment.
Speaker 6 (46:20):
With you, I think I think we've hit them, hit
the ball, And I just ask your listeners to not
only vote against the path and the referendum, but don't
lose sight of all of the other problems that the
city has that don't get don't get sucked up in
(46:40):
the in the path referendum to the extent that the
other things are forgotten about because they're going they're.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Going to eat us a lot.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
When you've got one hundred and seventy five million dollars
in debt and spending ten million dollars a year on interest,
It just.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
The equation doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
And the idea that this commission is even entertaining in
the taxi increase when they should be looking internally and
just say, hey, where where are we bloated?
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Start at City Hall? All right?
Speaker 5 (47:14):
We need we need to dough Jaffer.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Here and then remember that that hurricane was supposed to
hit us in October here, So if if we get
hit by something, we're screwed totally because we're not ready,
because we haven't cleaned up from the first Hurricane Michael situation.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Yeah, of course, of course we go ahead and build
build this path down here and destroy all of the
tree line and everything else next to the city more vulnerable.
Speaker 5 (47:46):
Make sure those houses there get blown away, right.
Speaker 4 (47:51):
I don't know whether you saw the other one recently,
speaking of this referendum, is the city has put out
a comment the one of the assistant city managers, Jared
has stated that they can install these quote unquote base
savers unless the path goes through.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
And that's that's.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
Simply not true. Those are two different grants.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
And what is wrong with these people making stuff up?
Oh my goodness, Okay.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
Because they get away with you.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Un for commissioning Hank on.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
The show today. I'm too old for that stuff.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Obviously not because you've got all the facts and I
can't thank you enough again, Preserve Beach Tribe. We've been
talking to Hank picking and we've got a fight on
our hands. So so, vote out the old commissioners.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Vote in the new ones, and then.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
All right, Hank, thanks for joining Brodnica Live today.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Thanks, thanks for your time, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
All right, have a
Welcome to Vernica Live. And I'm here with my wingman,
John Salik, and today we have a special guest. He
reached out, he actually reached out to Magic Broadcasting, where
I had my radio show for three years, because he
wanted to come on and discuss this issue of the
recreational path along West Beach Drive impacting Panama City. Because
(00:24):
this has become a huge issue. So I'm pleased to
welcome Hank Pickin' to Veronica Live.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hank, nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So, so, Hank, why is this an issue? I know
Mayor Rowan has been fighting this. You know, they've redone
that whole area looks really nice, but apparently they want
to spend millions more.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So what's going on that listeners need to know? Hank?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
For about two years now, the city has been designing
and planning to build a one point five mile twelve
foot wide concrete path along the south side of West
Beach Drive, which is right along the shoreline of Saint
(01:18):
Andrews Bay, And needless to say, what is now West
Beach Drive and that beautiful natural look would be turned
into something this side of Kong Island. And as a
homeowner here obviously not the least but interested in destroying
(01:38):
the neighborhood. But more importantly, it's a great, great risk
of destroying the environment.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
All of the trees along the.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Path now along the roadway are going to be removed
and replaced by saplings, and all of those trees are
part of the wildlife and nesting trees, et cetera. And
in addition, the path would encourage swimming in the bay,
(02:14):
which is often polluted. And there's also no parking anywhere
along West Beach Drive, so that anyone using the path
would have to park on one of the side streets
and then cross West Beach Drive. Of course, West Beach
Drive is Business Highway ninety eight and by FDOT standards
(02:39):
and studies, it's twelve and thirteen thousand vehicles a day
travel on West Beach Drive and it post its speed limit.
Of course it's thirty five. And that's just simply an opinion.
Everybody does far more than that. And I can just
picture when he's parking their cars on these side streets
(03:03):
with young kids ready to use the path and crossing
the path, and accidents is waiting to happen. So there's that.
And part of the plan is to shrink the width
of West Beach Drive. It is now around twenty seven
feet wide, and their plan is to shrink it down
(03:26):
to twenty foot wide, so the lanes would no longer
be thirteen feet wide, but they'd be ten feet wide
and add a whole bunch of new crosswalks and really
destroy the traffic flow. And needless to say, ten foot
wide is fine for alloveal, but you put a fire
(03:47):
engine or any kind of emergency vehicle, trash trucks or
whatever on that road, they just can't pass each other
without bending their rear view mirrors. So you've got parking issue,
you got traffic issues, you got safety issues, and environmental
concerns is mentioned. That's also a natural berm and bus
(04:11):
bet itself, and the residents here have been protected over
the years from Hurricane Surgeon the like because of that
natural birm, which would.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Also go away.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
The city also plans to put in about one hundred
and fifty lights and one hundred and fifty lighted billboards,
so just a leather yea light pollution up up and downs,
as I mentioned Tongue in Cheek and a bit of
Coney Island, but those lights going all night long, obviously
(04:46):
not conducive to any of the wildlife that's around, let
alone disturbing the neighborhood and the natural look and feel
of the current environment. The other comment Make two is
that all of this cost of construction, they were given
a nine day the city was given a nine million
(05:08):
dollar grant to build sidewalk improvements in Panama City, and
this path, they've already spent over a million dollars in
just a design and legal fees to get it to
this point. And nowhere in that estimate is the estimate
(05:32):
of maintaining the path and maintaining the road, because the
road actually belongs to the state, it doesn't belong to
the city. And in order for the city to make
any kind of modifications, industry in the road and use
what is the state right away, not the city right
away to build the path. The state has to give
(05:55):
the road, and with that comes the responsibility to maintain.
And the city has enough problems maintaining its own currents
let alone.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And we see that because if you drive even a
little further down, there's all kinds of potholes right there
off of Harrison, and it's ridiculous. So and this whole
area I mean, because recently it was kind of redeveloped
because there's swings that's super cute.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So is this a done deal?
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Hank?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I mean, and I've you know, just drove the road
the other day and the trees are lovely, and I
just can't believe that thirteen thousand people are actually driving
that road. That just seems like such a high number.
But is it a done deal? Because you know, I've
heard talk of not allowing this to move forward and
then reallocating that money to be used somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Well, needless to say, there's a lack of transparency about
this entire project. What we can glean from conversations with
Tallahassee and versus what we hear from the city are
(07:15):
different stories. And to break it all down, they have claimed,
as about.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Two years ago that this was.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
A done deal. There were a number of residents that
were summoned to the basement of City Hall and Commissioner
Street told us that this was a done deal, that
the state had already given the city the road, and
that they were going to proceed to build a path
(07:46):
whether we've wanted it or not, and their hope was
that we would help them design the path so that
it would be something acceptable. All that transpire in March
of last year, two years ago, and then it stated
that it was a done deal. And then about two
(08:09):
or three weeks later, then City Manager General McQueen sent
a memo to the FDOT and asked to the road
to be transferred to the city. So they knew when
they presented it as a done deal in March that
it wasn't a done deal because two weeks later they
(08:30):
applied for the transfer and FDOT didn't act on for
about three months, and when the city tried to find
out what had happened, they were told by the FDOT
it wasn't a valid application for transfer because it required
a commission resolution. So in July of two thousand and
(09:01):
twenty three, you know, six months after we were told
it was a dune deal, the Commission had a commission
meeting and unfortunately the mayor was not there. He was
on vacation of that particular meeting, and again a commissioner
Street acted as active mayor for that meeting, and they
(09:24):
they camouflaged it and pretended that the state was giving
them a gift of the road, and they passed a
resolution accepting the gift and that you can go back
and you know, look a look at minutes and all
that sort of thing. But they quote unquote accepted the gift,
(09:47):
and of course it was simply not free. But the
FDC accepted that resolution as an applicat and then filed
the application for the transfer. And then the next thing
that happened is ashto which is actually controls the federal roads,
(10:13):
which at the point in time was a federal highway.
They released it to the state, so it's now just
a state highway, not a federal highway. But that was,
you know, twenty three months later, which is right about now,
and obviously over a million dollars. Commissioner Street has put
(10:35):
out a Facebook memo that says that the path is
at the brink of failure, and as a result of
the brink of failure, they put together this this referendum
for the April ballot, and less to say, I don't
(11:02):
know whether you've read referendum, but it is terribly, terribly passed.
It's all one sided that it's all how good it's
going to be without any of the risks to the
road and the environment.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Everything.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
So on that note, let me just read the ref reference.
I can't even say the word today random. It says,
I know to consider state funded grant for pedestrian, storm
water and environmental improvements on Beach Drive. And it says,
should the City of Panama City use state funding to
(11:37):
make pedestrian improvements on Beach Drive and to make storm
water and environmental improvements on Beach Drive within the publicly
owned right of way, with the understanding that these funds
are restricted and cannot be used for any other purpose
or location in the city. Okay, So they're trying to
(11:58):
put their arms around it, telling me I can't use
that money elsewhere. All right, But John, go ahead, I
know you had a question. I just wanted to read this.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Well, it's so it's not clear then that the state
has agreed to give away beach drives. Is that? Is
that what I'm hearing from from your son?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, that's it's clearly clearly what we think. And in fact,
I think Commissioner street Uh knows that, and this referendum
is really out to protect him from the criticism. Obviously,
he has spent over a million dollars on designing this
(12:39):
path without having the road, which would would have been
the normal step.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
One, So is it state money? So is it state
money that he spent because this referendum saying state money
oka not local but.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
But but by the same token taxpayer, it's from out
of a different pocket, but.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
It's the and me have paid for it.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
So is there any local effort required as part of
this process? I mean usually the state doesn't just give
you a grant money without local participation or local funding portion.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
It's also a little bit of a shell game there.
The original grant was for nine point four million, eight
million coming from the state and one point four coming
from the city. And then as this project moved forward,
the one point four funding from the city disappeared, and
(13:38):
it's now going forward with eight And they've already spent
a million, as I said, in design and legal fees.
So they've got seven hundred seven million left to construct
the path. And of course anyone in the construction business
and folks in Tallahassee don't believe it can be done
(14:00):
to that amount of money. With all of the additional
bills and whistles, the lights that I mentioned, and everything
else that they've built into the plan.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Well, that that's the that's been the problem. That's been
the problem here with with with this city. And and
I'll go I'll go back to you know when Mark
McQueen was the Citney manager and just look at the
civic center. Look at the state of the Civic Center.
You know, they tried to build this taj Mahal. Instead
of fixing what we had destroyed by the hurricane, they
decided to build this thing with movable floors and all
(14:29):
kinds of crap. You know, drove the price ceiling right exactly.
We have nothing I have and these people downtown I
don't know who these people are that are that are
driving this, this this vision of what they think Panama
City should be. But it's like it's crazy, it's not sustainable,
and we can't afford it because I just I just
(14:50):
don't understand that the the money and I keep looking.
You know, my water and sewer bill is keeps going
up and up and up. You know, it's one hundred
and what twenty five dollars a month.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Now.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
These people are down there are crazy, you know, they're
so irresponsible with our money. And I don't know what's
driving this. Who is the intended user of this, because
it's sure not you know, I live over in King's Point. Okay,
I have no intention of going down there and using
this thing. And you know, if I want to go
to the beach, I'll go to the beach. I won't
go down to beach Drive.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
And if you're telling me it's dirty, I'm not going
to have anybody.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Why would I want to go swim in that?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Because because how many times have we had where they
dumped sewage into these areas and it's disgusting. So yeah,
I know this is definitely out of control. So so
Hank is it? I mean, how do we stop this?
Because you know, I'm interviewing the mayor is coming on
Vernica Live for an update, and I know he's not
in favor of this. You know, the citizens that I've
(15:50):
talked to are not in favor of this.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Who's pushing this?
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Because you know people want the business. It's nine million dollars.
I just feel like everything's under construction already on Harrison Avenue,
So it's a nightmare. The poor businesses that have had
to endure all of that transformation I feel bad for
because it's already not that happening of an area.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, clearly that's the reason in my mind that this
referendum was put forth at a at a meeting about
two months ago when I was I've been domestic terrorist
and appearing at the Commission meeting.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Which citizen and.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
At one point, you know, I asked a couple of
embarrassing questions and at one point Commissioner Street said, I'm
really really getting quite quite frust traded in having to
answer these questions all the time. And you know, hey,
(17:07):
maybe he should quit.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
It's your job, man, your job, right, But I think
a little bit of this idea of putting referendum out
there is to provide a little.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Bit of smoke screen for him.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Because at the last Commission meeting, when I've put up
several questions to include why are you doing the referendum
now and not doing it two years ago? And why
have you ignored the three thousand signatures we've had on
this petition to not do the beach drivet, he just
(17:43):
said he was I'm uncomfortable with this. Well, by having
this referendum out there, he doesn't have to answer the
question put to him by any of the other commissioners,
including the mayor. Because our Secretary Jan Smith stopped the
(18:04):
mayor from following up on my questions at the commission
meeting saying that that could be considered to be political
interference because it's on the ballot.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
So I think, I think.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Everything that's political.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Exactly, but I can I can ask because I'm not
running for office, but apparently at a commission meeting it
would be considered to be too political. So at any rate,
I think part of the reason for the referendum is
that political cover. The other piece of it is, and
(18:45):
I think you put your finger on it, is to
get people to take their eye off the ball I mean,
the other problems that this city has that we should
be addressing can only be addressed if we have a
change in the leadership. The city is in financial difficulty.
(19:06):
We were told the last two Commission meetings that the
city will run out of money by the end of September,
which is the end of this year's fiscal year, and
the only way out. The only thing they're talking about
is raising taxes when they've gone through so many giveaways
(19:28):
on ways to make profit, but let alone not even
thinking about cutting costs. I can remember the very first
Commission meeting that I attended on behalf of this beach
drive deal. The mayor asked the city manager to come
(19:49):
back with a plan to cut ten percent out of
the city budget, and it disappeared down a rat hole
because time after time, time after time, the mayor is
the one vote and it's for one.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I feel bad for him because being a weak mayor
would drive me literally insane.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
And these people never vote.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
And then when I was prepping for you to come
on and he's coming on, I'm interviewing him as well,
like you know, the hatred from the good old boys.
They totally hate him, and I feel awful for him because,
you know, quite often I agree with what he's what
he's saying, and if we're out of money, why why
(20:34):
are we doing this?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You know, so somebody's driving this train.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Just yeah, but Ronica, what's rule number one in politics?
I follow funny if you want to know the truth, okay.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And two that say that on our follow the money.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
It's going to get lined here by this, by this
beach drive thing, and it's not, you know, and they're
saying and it's back to the same old story you
know about free money and and you know, airport drive,
you're ago same thing, you know, I still remember Mayor
Clements talking about the free money tree, and I asked
him to said, where is this free money tree. I'd
like to go money off that free money.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Tree for John.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
You know, they did the same thing out here at
Airport Road. You know, they built this fancy medium in
there with all these trees and stuff, you know, and
it's like, why, you know, it's a road to the airport,
which by the way, is no longer there, and and
and and that's not really used anymore. It was a
complete and total waste of money. But it lines somebody's pocket,
you know, to put in that medium and the paving
(21:35):
and all the landscaping and and all that stuff, you know.
And I'm sitting here trying to figure out, you know,
the water.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I've interviewed Jerreal McQueen so many times I lost count.
And the infrastructure to me is what's scary. And then
when we had the fires out in California, and I
know that that not all of our fire hydrants work.
To me, those are of priorities before some sinking path.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Let's talk about lift stations. Let's talk about sewage lift
lift stations in the city, and how many of them
aren't working.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
So after that one in particular, they have a plan
that they're working on, don't. I don't know how it's
going to do well.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I've been doing shows now for several this is my
fifth year of shows and it's been the same.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
Stuff, same thing we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yep, this is not done.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I'm not mad at you, Hank, I'm just I'm I'm
half Spanish. So the bullfighter comes out because especially after
when I saw what happened in California, and I know
that our fire hydrants are not up to par. You
know that to me is the priority. So how do
we fix this? Because Beach Drive right now is adorable.
I don't know why we need to fix this. When
(22:52):
you connect a little farther down connecting to Harrison, there's
fricking potholes. So those are should be the priorities and
of stations and infrastructure that are from the Roman days.
Is what what General McQueen used to say when he
came on my show.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah, And unfortunately General McQueen's background of a military
you don't really worry about money, right. There's always additional
funding for military projects as you can well as you
will now, but what what goes on here is what
(23:34):
what is on here is hiding, hiding a lot of
the truth, and people, I think really really want to
be able to point to some shining project that they've
accomplished on behalf of the city, as opposed to doing
the infamous blocking and tackling. Every every everybody.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Wants to wants to touchdown, but nobody wants.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
To do the blocking and tackling is hard to get there,
and we see it time and time again.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
They're tackling because they're also pushing that damn amphitheater with
four thousand seats and it's one hundred degrees here, and
and Jerry Sidee's not going to fly into sweat, so
and I have to travel for entertainment, So I am.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Done with with this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
So so back back to it again, I mean, is
it Is it because it's a street project?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Commissioner streets pushing it because he's scratching somebody's back.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
For sure, I don't I don't know what's pushing his button.
But he has been steadfastly championing this and actually misleading
a whole lot of people, including I think his fellow commissioners.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
As to the status of this road.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
I think he continues and suddenly he finds out that
he's being exposed and he's got some real competition for
his eat, and as a result, this referendum is being
put forth. But I've asked the question on a couple
of times. I can only only answer it, how do
(25:12):
we fix the problem. Is it's a five person commission.
The mayor has only one vote, and I can tell
you watching the commission in action, the other four commissioners
take turns beating on him, and he's the one voice
that seems to care about what the public thinks, not
(25:36):
what some consultant has told him to think.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
That we pay millions of dollars to I.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Have no I can't get a number out of the
city on how much the city has spent on basis
for consulting.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
But I do have some number.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
I mean, we have a a city manager who has
two assistant city managers, and the combined salary of the
three of them is five hundred thousand dollars. Reporting to
them is seven I think it's seven division heads, direct
(26:20):
reports and all that. You know, they have their own
staff and everything else. I'm sure that with that kind
of staff you don't need to spend a lot of
money on consultants. They should be doing this, or or
fire them all and continue with consultants. We also got
(26:44):
an average of two million dollars a year spent on
legal fees the world Panama City, and you know that's
absolutely insane.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
And part of.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
It is because a lot of these things that they're
trying to do in particularly here on Westby job has
some severe implication as far as private property rights. So
it's all part of the thing. But the way it
needs to be fixed is it needs to be fixed.
Josh Street is obviously for re election. He needs to
(27:18):
be replaced. Jenna Halligus is the other one that's up
for re election, but she's declined to run and there
are candidates to take her her spot. And then of
course we've got to re elect the mayor. Well you
have the re elected mayor, get rid of Street and
(27:38):
put somebody in Haligus seat that cares about the city and.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
The population.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Turned the whole thing around.
Speaker 5 (27:49):
One thing about about the election coming up here, you know,
there's I'm looking at the website here and it says
three fifty two people have signed signed this petition against
his path. Now usually municipal elections, we're lucky if we
get fifteen percent turnout, you know, because of.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
The municipal election, last musical election we had, we had
forty six hundred and sixty seven people voted.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
That's a pretty big number. That's way far more than normal.
But you know, the thing is there's enough people that
have signed this petition, if they show up at the polls,
they can beat this thing easily.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Well, that's all part, that's all part of the bias
that's built into this. Obviously, the three thousand plus signatures
on these petitions are not all voters. They are people
that use this road. Mister Chevron obviously doesn't have a vote,
but it's extremely important to mister Chevron to be able
(28:56):
to drive his trucks on West Beach draw Yes, otherwise
you're going to ride on on eleven Street where there
are eight eight or nine schools and eleven churches, parks
and libraries and everything else. Just fifteenth Street where we
got that malfunction junction.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Well, well that's the thing is that commercial you know,
adding that commercial traffic in into town, you know, basically
up up Harrison and stuff is just that's nuts, you know,
it really it's.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Been a cluster now for a long time with that redo.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
So and then eventually they're going to do that little
that little area coming off of Harris is going to
be redone too, and that's.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Going to be you know, you've got all You've got
all that that commercial people. Forget about all the commercial
district down there, as you point out, you've got the
Chevron terminal down there, You've got Coca Cola people, You've
got the Daffin supply. I mean, you've got a whole
bunch of commercial stuff in there that that distributes out
from that area exactly.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
And those those people are not going to vote. A
couple of them live here, but the majority of them
are live someplace else and work here.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
So so, so the way to win it then is
to elect mayor the mayor.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And then I've got the names. Who's who are the
one who is running against Street. I've got Ed Young.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Ed Young is running for Halligas's whole seat against the Yeah,
against the Street, specifically as a gentleman by the name
of Demetris Reed.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Okay, I got yeah, okay, Demetrious okay, okay, got it
all right. So he's who people need to to elect.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Then those two people I've talked to personally and I
know for sure they're committed to transparency, which is you
step one is to start telling the truth about these
different projects and the stuff that's going on behind the
curtain and the camouflage. It's just astounding to try to
(31:12):
try to get answers from either the commissioners directly or
from the city elsewhere. It's it's a show game. You
pick up one show and it's gone.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
But it's hard to see.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
But the rest of my knowledge, we have one hundred
and seventy five million dollars in debt. We're paying ten
million dollars a year in interest, and the total budget
of the city is about is about one hundred million dollars.
(31:46):
See a debt it's three quarters greater than the actual revenue.
Sort of sounds like Washington, d C.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
But yeah, exactly. Well, and that's the thing even you know,
even when you look at the Washington DC budget, you know,
all these grants programs and stuff, you know, I mean,
there's lots of them out there and stuff. But I
think you're going to see the trend in the next
few years with with Trump wanting to balance the budget,
and I think they're going to see stuff like that
drying up, you know, the FEMA particularly like the FEMA
(32:20):
money and stuff, and you know, I think we need
but you know, what they're following is really a history
of the way Panama City works. I mean, go back
along as long as I've been here. That's the way
Panama City has always worked, you know, passing, you know,
the commissioner passing their their pay increases. You know, right
before the hurricane, you know, in the emergency meeting, when
nobody was paying attention, it's like, oh, yeah, to give
(32:41):
ourselves a pay raise while while we're here doing emergency
declarations for hurricane, you know, when nobody's watching. I mean,
the stuff that's gone on in the city is just astonishing,
and it still goes on.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah, you know, that's why we need a total change of.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Personnel.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
And as I said, you know, it's not one, it's
not one voter, it's it's got to be three. It's
got to be a package deal, right, three of them,
and then then it becomes a three to two vote
and we can start getting some sobriety back management.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
I just I just like to see him get that
budget under control. You know, and address the essential problem first.
I know they're not shiny things, you know, but it's
what it's what we pay local government for. Is you know,
I want water, I want decent roads, and I want
the garbage page.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
And I also want entertainment, and I don't have a
dance civic center.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
So I'm angry.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And then the Martin to me, is way over budget
and like thirty five million, and why are we funding
a restaurant in this I mean, to me, this is
out of control and wasted money. It's just we've got
to get the right people in there.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Hank.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Let me let me take you through a couple of
nuts and bolts on that one too, because one of
the things that happened when that civic center was originally
FEMA offered to restore it, but the city said.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
You know, we want a taj Mahal.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
We want not only a theater, but we also want
a convention center. And instead of accepting the offer, and
my memory is it was around thirty six million that
they were offered to restore the building, then their infinite wisdom,
they went out and found an engineer that condemned the building.
(34:31):
And because it was condemned. Then FEMA said, well, we
can't repair it. So they offered the city sixteen million
dollars for the market value of the property. And they
the city turned around and took the sixteen million dollars
and put it into the Martin Theater project. And what
(34:53):
they've done it was sixteen hundred seats in the original
Civic Center and there are four hundred seats in Barten Theater,
So you're going from a popular venue into a in
the a closet.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
So well, and we used to have traveling Broadway and
Jerry Seinfeld I actually saw in our civic Center my children,
my daughter would dance with the Russian Ballet. So four
hundred seats is not enough, and thirty five million dollars
is absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
This goes back.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
To when they moved the city the city office without
a damn conference room, which was embarrassing. And that was
that was over budget as well. Again, I don't know
who these people are in charge.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Put me in charge. That's the thing, Veronica. You know
when you when you look at things like the Civic Center,
you know that I belonged to Panama City Music Association.
For godness, how many decades, okay, and uh, you know,
but but I mean that's like a who who in
Panama City, And and the stuff we had down at
the Civic Center was world class you know, arts, and
(36:06):
and that's gone. You know, that's that we don't you.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Need something that seats a couple thousand people.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Not right, right, and that the place would be packed,
you know, it'd be upstairs and downstairs to be packed
with people, you know, for the for those you know,
broadway shows and operas.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
And and and and everything.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
And and that's that's the kind of.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Thing I think in seven years, and I don't have entertainment,
and and then now we're talking about this madness which
which we have the Lynnhaven Path. Now that's done, okay,
So it's not like we don't have things for people
to do. And nobody's thinking of the overall economic you know,
(36:46):
of Panama City. So so, Hank, is there anything we
can do besides voting these people out and keeping mayor
rowing in?
Speaker 4 (36:57):
I think, more more than anything else, is too is
to share the knowledge. I think people need to know
what's been going on behind the curtain so that we
don't focus so much attention on.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Defeeding the referendum.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
They forget what bone had investments or lack of investments
these people have made. Are you aware of the hotel
and restaurant deal that's down on City Hall of the
City Pier. They gave the developers of that hotel and
(37:30):
I don't know who they are, but they gave the
developers in that hotel and that restaurant the ninety nine
year lease and the property with no down payment and
no annual minimum payments. And they're supposed to share profits.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
With the city.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
And we have asked at least three times in various
commission meetings how much the hotel and restaurant has paid
back to the city. But basically, I got a free
ride some very very very valuable property.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
So there's that. And then then the more recently.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
The city bought a piece of property on Chestnut Avenue
in Saint Andrews and they paid over two hundred thousand
dollars more than the appraised value of the property, knowing
full will.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
And who would allow that? Who would allow that?
Speaker 4 (38:26):
I mean four commissioners, I mean literally, it's lining somebody's
pocket for a mere two hundred k.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And the funny thing is, I was so happy when
the Indigo Hotel came in there. I go to a
lot of events there. It's a forty million dollar hotel.
But now they don't even do lunch there because they
weren't even getting the traffic.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
There, you know. So that's the thing. This is so frustrating.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
Well, I think it comes down Veronica, that that you're
what you're dealing with here is either incompetence or or
just flat flat out crookedness, I mean as in money
changing hands.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Well, and now when.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
The mayor comes those impact fees that now they're trying
to put on all the developers that are developing new
homes and new commercial properties, and they're you know, the
developers are already here locally have like all of their
prices under Biden have gone up for steel and wood
and everything. And this is another little sly thing because
(39:27):
I'm friendly with a bunch of developers that they've tried
to like slap on and sneak in, so everything's like this,
let's sneak it in. Nobody will notice the thing. And
they've held now two workshops trying to push this forward.
And like one little house a development is going to
be like ten k for a house, So guess is
going to have to pay that. It'll be the person
(39:47):
buying the house that's already strapped for money out of seball.
Speaker 5 (39:52):
I don't I don't mind. I don't mind some of
these impact fees, you know, I don't why, No, they're
so excessive. Yeah, but versus the cost of the houses
that you know, and and the way they're building houses
in Panama City with these multi fens, that's a whole
other show. Okay, we've got we've got to controversy in
our area out here in King's Point over over these
(40:14):
this multi family you know, small lot development crap that
they want to put in out here, which is really inconsistent.
But you know, the developers that because they can sell
a lot of houses with small lots you know, kind
of kind of you know, like Sweetwater Bay over there,
where the houses are built on top of each other.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Basically, do you know.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
The giveaway associated with that sweet pay deal.
Speaker 5 (40:40):
Yeah, they gave they gave the land away for nothing,
you know, and and and you know the supposedly, you know,
the the promise was all this building and property taxes
and all this stuff that the city would would that
is city, right.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
But now now they're getting into a sharing of incremental
melorium taxes for forty five percent goes to the developer
and forty five percent comes to the city of any
kind of increase at war of tax So you.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
Know, and that that's a that's a cr right is
that was that one of the cras?
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Remember it's a while.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
I don't remember, but that was something that the Commission
passed within the last either the last Commission meeting or
two meetings ago.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Wow, how do they How did they get away with that?
Because the only way you can do the only way
you can do revenue sharing and targeted toward an areas
of c R supposedly mm hmm again it was when
were you running for office, Hank, But you know all the.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Ins and outs of this, and your average person like like,
you're just telling me numbers, and I know the mayor
is going to know the numbers too when I reinterviewed
him and I've interviewed him about I mean, two million
in freaking legal fees? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I mean, what is going on in Panama City? You know,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
This just seems so excessive all of these things.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
And and nobody's nobody's prepared to look inside and say, Okay,
how are you going to save a lot of money
as opposed to raising taxes? That I am certain that
this bunch gets re elected, We're going to we're going
to end up with a tax increase in September.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Well, and we know that they're originally ran against that
fire tax because people were ticked about that because that
was hurting the little man.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
And then I know these these impacts and hurting you know.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
I mean every time you turn around, it's taxes, taxes, taxes.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
What is man's question for Hank because you're at all
these meetings and what is he doing? Because I you know,
when when it came down to Jonathan Hayes, you know,
there was all these resumes and I kept saying, let's
get somebody from outside of here that thinks big. And
I didn't think his resume matched the job. I didn't
(43:07):
think his resume matched the job at all. So so
am I wrong on this?
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Well?
Speaker 4 (43:14):
I unfortunately I didn't see the other resumes, but I
have seen mister Hayes in action, and I wouldn't hire him.
It just he is not truthful. And there are a
number of issues that he's pretended that he's on top
(43:37):
of he pretended from from day one he didn't need
FDOT approval or transfer of the road to build a
path and to what extent. And he's also pretended that
they have a number of petitions that are in favor
of the path that offset the three thousand that we have.
(44:00):
And yet when push comes to show show show us
your hand, Uh, it's it's a list of names with
an address of U. S. A. You know, it could
be it could be a page out of a phone book.
But you know, it's it's not just it's not just
the putting putting forth phony information, but it's it's allowing
(44:23):
the commissioners to make decisions based on that kind of information.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Oh, this is a sad state of affairs, honestly it is.
Speaker 5 (44:32):
But you know, we have we have a we have
a you know, it's just a form of the government.
Though you know, we have a strong city manager week
week mayor. You know, the mayor is really more nothing
more than a commissioner at large, basically a ceremonial but uh,
and and people don't don't seem to understand the mayor
doesn't run anything, and and the city the city commission
(44:53):
is not any stronger than the people you vote to
put on it. In a lot of cases, you know,
the city manager runs things and and you know, I
also live up in George. I'll give you a good
example here one one city up there, Villa Rica. There
was this huge controversy and the city manager was doing
stuff behind the city council's back, and finally the city
council manned up and fired him, which was like unheard of,
(45:17):
you know, and and and that's kind of I think
what we need in this case is we need a
new city council that'll get in there and take some
action and kick some butt and and and you know,
be accountable for a change.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Well, Hank, I want to I want everybody to go
to the website. It's Preservebeach drive dot com. And now
I know you're going to share this interview with the world.
I just think people need to know what's going on,
and it's and it's on your you got to vote.
We've got April twenty second, we've got two commissioners, and
(45:50):
and this referendum on this piece of land property that
we're talking about. And I think, honestly, the money because
I've asked the mayor about it before the money could
be allocated somewhere else. And there's there's other things that
Panama City needs the money to be used for, live stations,
fire hydrants, and freaking potholes that I've driven over right
(46:14):
right right next to this road that's already lovely.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
So what are we missing? Hank? As we wrap our segment.
Speaker 6 (46:20):
With you, I think I think we've hit them, hit
the ball, And I just ask your listeners to not
only vote against the path and the referendum, but don't
lose sight of all of the other problems that the
city has that don't get don't get sucked up in
(46:40):
the in the path referendum to the extent that the
other things are forgotten about because they're going they're.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Going to eat us a lot.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
When you've got one hundred and seventy five million dollars
in debt and spending ten million dollars a year on interest,
It just.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
The equation doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
And the idea that this commission is even entertaining in
the taxi increase when they should be looking internally and
just say, hey, where where are we bloated?
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Start at City Hall? All right?
Speaker 5 (47:14):
We need we need to dough Jaffer.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Here and then remember that that hurricane was supposed to
hit us in October here, So if if we get
hit by something, we're screwed totally because we're not ready,
because we haven't cleaned up from the first Hurricane Michael situation.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Yeah, of course, of course we go ahead and build
build this path down here and destroy all of the
tree line and everything else next to the city more vulnerable.
Speaker 5 (47:46):
Make sure those houses there get blown away, right.
Speaker 4 (47:51):
I don't know whether you saw the other one recently,
speaking of this referendum, is the city has put out
a comment the one of the assistant city managers, Jared
has stated that they can install these quote unquote base
savers unless the path goes through.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
And that's that's.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
Simply not true. Those are two different grants.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
And what is wrong with these people making stuff up?
Oh my goodness, Okay.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
Because they get away with you.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Un for commissioning Hank on.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
The show today. I'm too old for that stuff.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Obviously not because you've got all the facts and I
can't thank you enough again, Preserve Beach Tribe. We've been
talking to Hank picking and we've got a fight on
our hands. So so, vote out the old commissioners.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Vote in the new ones, and then.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
All right, Hank, thanks for joining Brodnica Live today.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Thanks, thanks for your time, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
All right, have a
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.