(Episode 22) Let's Chat Series - Let's Chat Athletic Trainer! - Vitally Stable: A Pre-Health Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
You are listening to Vitally Stable,a pre health podcast sponsored by You and
me MS. My name is Ryanand I'm Katie, and we will be
your hosts, guides, and biggestsupporters as you navigate the various challenges and
obstacles associated with the successful pre healthjourney. This episode will be an installment
into the Let's Chat series where webring in students and professionals to speak about
the specifics of their field and thetips and tricks they have for you to

(00:23):
be the best applicant that you canbe. We hope you enjoy. Hello
everyone, and welcome to the Let'sChat Series. As always of my name

(00:47):
is Ryan and will be your mainhost. Let's Chat Series is an episode
based zoos and chat session with guestspeakers who are either studying it or professionals
in their respective field. Current secondyear a medical student. You're at the
Alabama College of Osiopathic Medicine. Currently, I'm attending you to get my DNP
and psych middle in my second yeargetting a master's degree in public I'm a
first year medical student right now atthe you, I'm in PA School at

(01:07):
Toro University, Nevada. Contacts allover the place with science always a feeling
you were interested in or did youactually discover it on the way. If
I know nothing about the PA field, where would you recommend that I start?
Was there ever a time when youdoubted your ability to make a school?
Let's talk about the mcamp. I'mone of the first people in my
family to pursue medicine, or Iguess the physician. I'm very passionate about

(01:30):
interviews. A gap year is nota bad thing. Wow, I feel
like I'm back at a PA schoolinterview. If anyone needs help with their
interview, ask Ryan to ask youthe questions. I had this wonderful journey
up to this point talking to somereally cool people. I'm happy to help
anyone anyway I can with this ridiculouslycomplex and difficult process. Hello, and

(01:53):
welcome to the Let's Chat series.My name is Ryan and I am your
host. As always, today We'vegot a really, really fun conversation that
I'm really excited to have, andit's about the career of the athletic trainer.
Before we jump into the career,though, I want to continue my
thanking of my listeners here for howsuccessful the Let's Chat series has been and

(02:13):
kind of the feedback that I've heardfrom a lot of people who are learning
about these careers. It's been oneof my more well received episode types,
and it's allowed me to reach outto new guests and find new people to
help expand it. So I wantto thank you all for supporting the series
in that way. As you mightbe guessing with a lot of my recent
episodes here, my goal is totake our episode from The Daily Vitamin's careers

(02:34):
in medicine and kind of pull careersfrom the list that we gave you and
go further into depth into those careersso you can learn a little bit more
than just like what is the salary, what is the growth percentage, but
you can really know what these careersare, what you do in them,
and kind of where your place wouldbe if you were to pursue it.
But with that said, I wantto allow our guests to kind of determine

(02:54):
the direction of our conversation today,and I want to allow them to introduce
themselves. So starting off with you, Julia, I'd love for you to
give us just an introduction list knowa little about who you are. Thank
you, Ryan, As he said, my name is Julia, I am
currently a student at Augsburg for PA, but my background primarily is athletic training.

(03:15):
I come from a small family,grew up on a small farm.
Was always interested in science, butreally kind of found my groove when I
was in undergrad and it took mea little bit to get to athletic training,
but once I got there, Ireally stuck. So I'm looking forward
to sharing more about my love ofathletic training and let me more just to
answer any non questions. Absolutely appreciatethat, Julia. Cool benefit of today

(03:37):
is we actually have two guests today, which isn't always. I can always
do that on the chat series,so I'm excited to also let Eric introduce
himself today. Yeah, so myname is Eric Cloud. I'm from Madison,
Wisconsin originally also currently a PA studentat Augsburg. Kind of different from
Julia. I was interested in athletictraining pretty early, and I think a

(03:58):
lot of people that end up goinginto the field gets posed early, you
know, through high school athletics orathletics in some way. And I'll go
into that further later, but thatwas kind of how I got exposed to
it. So going into undergrad,I knew that's what I wanted to go
into initially obviously changed a little bitnow, but yeah, then I went
out to Utah, got my master'sin sports medicine, had some great experiences
out there, and then we workedfor about a year and a half in

(04:20):
the clinical setting and then made theswitch over to PA school. Absolutely,
I appreciate you both giving me thatbrief intro a little of your background,
and already, as you know,my listeners might be able to tell here
you do both come from different areasand kind of pursue this career for different
reasons. So I'm really excited tosee where some of your answers go to
somebody these questions and see if they'rethe same or they're different. So we

(04:41):
can really learn a lot about thiswonderful career. But to start off,
a big thing that we do hereat the Let's Chat series is we don't
just like to just talk about thecareer. We like to talk about the
individual within the career. So abig thing that I always like to ask
is kind of your pathways into scienceand kind of how you even decided to
enter this overall field of science.Obviously both pursuing PA now, but there's
probably that initial interest in science youhad at an earlier age or maybe somewhere

(05:05):
on the way. So this timewe'll start with you, Eric. I'd
love for you to describe to mea little bit about kind of how you
grew up and a little more thanmaybe you mentioned before, and then maybe
what really got you interested in thescience field. Yeah, so I can't
say I I you know, sinceI was a kid in elementary I was
dying to be in the field ofscience. It wasn't like an aspiration I

(05:25):
had, but I was always betterin science and math classes in school.
So as I, you know,went through middle school, high school,
it was like, all right,I know, I want to do something
academic wise, you know, inscience. But obviously I grew up playing
hockey, so I was around athleticsa lot and really wanted to find a
way to merge those and athletic trainingwas kind of the baby of that of

(05:46):
that merge right there. So Ialso had my great uncle was an athletic
trainer for a very long time.He was had athletic trainer for the Lions
for about thirty years. Wow.So he's an in law, so not
blood relative, but he definitely hadan fluence on that as well, and
I spoke to him quite a bitwhen I was in high school and that
kind of influenced my decision on goinginto science, but more specifically athletic training,

(06:09):
because it was a great way tobridge the strength I had in science
and math, you know, andthe academic side of things with my interests
obviously and passion for sports, soyou kind of get the best of both
worlds there, and that was howI went into athletic training and then decided
to kind of take it a stepfurther and pursue my studies in physician assistant
school. So it's kind of howwe ended up here. Absolutely no,

(06:31):
I appreciate that that's a really coolbackground, and it's really cool that you
had that exposure even earlier in yourtime to really see that life and see
if that was something you wanted todo. And obviously it's taken here,
so that that's really cool. Julia, I'd love to throw the same question
over to you. Tell me alittle bit about kind of more about how
you grew up and kind of whatreally got you interested in science for sure,

(06:53):
Ryan, So I started as thelittlet of four on a little small
hobby farm just outsided Deluth. Myfather is a science teacher actually, and
so whether I liked it or not, exposed to science, he had a
reason for most of the things whywe did. A lot of them were
biologically related, and I very muchknew that if I got in trouble,
he'd gave me a long lecture regardingsomething about either history or science, and

(07:15):
so I had to pay attention.But aside from that, I think my
interest in science really was mostly likean Ammy and VIZ, and then that
kind of grew. When I gotto undergrad, Like Eric, I was
involved with sports. I had alot of interest in athletics, but I
really wasn't sure what direction I wantedto go. I just knew that I
loved science and I loved helping people, So it took me a little bit

(07:36):
to kind of figure out where andhow to merge those two things. But
once I realized that my love ofathletics my love working with people could easily
be combined by working as an athletictrainer, that became my go to.
So I finished undergrad at EWS andSuperior with exercise science understanding a figure that'd
be a great base for whatever directionI went, and then got my graduate

(07:57):
degree over at ste Classical Deluth,had a really awesome experience there, and
then after working for about five yearsas a high school aflighted trainer, eventually
came over and started my career hereas becoming a PA. So it's been
kind of a wild journey, butI would definitely say that I attribute a
lot of my love of science andlearning back to my father's much loved statements

(08:18):
of well, remember, this iswhy the animals do this, and this
is why the flowers do that.And I could go on for hours,
but I'll spare you those details.I appreciate that, but those are some
really cool and they are very different, but it is really cool to see
some of the interests that you hadare in a way very similar. You
kind of found the way into thecareer, even though you're completely kind of

(08:39):
different how you grew up in yourbackgrounds to it. But now starting with
you this time, Julia, youtalked about your love of science, and
obviously all the fields you ended upin were more patient care based. I'd
love to know really what spoke toyou about patient care medicine and patient care
work over maybe like the research andthe policy and those other aspects of science.
I think, honestly, it's justmy love and enjoy of working with

(09:01):
people. There's that ability to beable to see the positive change with people
and to have those relationships. Beingthe oldest of four, I was often
called on to babysit right, soI did a lot with helping my younger
siblings, and even with our familyfarm, we had often young goats or
cow was born on the farm andso offuen we were caring for those.
So I think it was just thisrealization that I really wanted to have a

(09:24):
positive relationship with people. I'd beable to instill a change in them and
a hope and a drive to continueto make positive changes in their lives and
their health. So I think thatwas a huge reason for me as to
why I wanted to be on thepatient care side of things versus the research
or policy formation. Absolutely absolutely,What about you, Eric, Is it

(09:46):
a similar mindset or is it alittle bit different? Yeah, no,
one hundred percent. I think alot of people go into these fields,
you know, to interact with peopleto build and foster these relationships and getting
exposed athletic training in high school.Being the AFTHA, A training room.
You see, you know, theathletic trainer is kind of seen as the
cool guy or cool girl whoever youknow, is working and they have all
these relationships with all these different people, you know, freshmen through through seniors,

(10:11):
all different types of sports, Imean, and they they found a
way to connect with any and everybody. And I thought that was what really
drew me, drew me to theprofession. I never saw myself behind a
desk or you know, sitting doingdoing computer work for eight hours a day,
and so I think leaning towards thepatient care side of a science career
is definitely the benefit of getting tobuild these relationships. And like Julia said,

(10:35):
seeing them improve is one of themost rewarding things. You know,
athletic training specifically, and you know, I'm sure it's this way in other
fields too, but you get tosee them from the very start through the
very end, and you're there everyday, so you build this awesome relationship
and then you just seeing them returnto what they love to do is is
a pretty rewarding experience. So,yeah, the relationships is what really drew
me to the patient care side ofthings. Absolutely, that was very else

(11:00):
said from both of you, andI can definitely see how that'd be some
way that would drive both of youinto it. And I love eric your
description of the like seeing them fromthat day one and really seeing them get
back to what they love. Ithink that's such a cool thing. And
as much as all the other fieldsin medicine we get to see them get
better, there's something about that sportsworld. There's something about kind of getting
back to that that highest level ofcompetition for some people that is extra special

(11:22):
in some ways to see people achievethat stuff. So I love that description.
So this is a question We've beenasking a lot more in our Left
Chest series and I really loved kindof the answers we've been getting to it.
But a big thing on the Let'sChest series I want our listeners to
know is that everybody has a differentperception of the science field and what is
available to them and at different stagesof their life. So I'm trying through
my guests to establish that understanding ofthat. You know, there's all these

(11:46):
options available to there's all these waysthat you can go, and people kind
of learn about it in different ways. So i'd love to ask, starting
with you, Eric, I loveto ask in general, when you chose
to pursue science, when you're like, science is for me and that's the
career I want to go into.How would you say, how A,
where were you of all the optionsyou had at the time. Maybe you
were really aware, but maybe youreally only had a small image. How
would you describe that for yourself?Yeah, and being kind of different from

(12:09):
Julia, where I was more Idon't want to say tunnel vision, but
I was kind of locked into athletictraining in high school. So I can't
say I knew every career that wasavailable to me obviously, you know,
you know being a physician, youknow nursing, you kind of know.
If you're in athletics, you knowathletic training to an extent, you probably
know or heard about physical therapy.And that's probably where I drew the line

(12:31):
for me. You know, Ididn't really know a ton about all these
fields. And even when I knewI wanted to be an athletic trainer right
away, it's like you don't necessarilyknow everything from a day to day basis
that goes into that. You know, I knew it was cool, I
knew it was around sports, Iknew it was about science, but I,
you know, until I actually gotinto undergrad and learned more about it,

(12:52):
you know, I don't really thinkI understood the entire scope of what
they can do and what they doon a daily basis. So I think
it takes, you know, alittle bit of initiative. I know,
our program went to a high schoolto speak about what a PA is and
what a PA does, and Ithink that's great because I think a lot
of kids in high school, unlessthey take that initiative themselves, they don't
probably have a complete understanding of everythingthat's available to them, and especially as

(13:16):
a PA being and kind of that, you know, I don't like the
term mid level provider, but beingin that, you know, not at
a physician level, and you know, kind of in this in between space
where I think maybe their role getskind of passed over when kids are first
looking into science, but more specificallyhealthcare. Absolutely absolutely. What about you,
Julia, what would you say isyou were you really aware of all

(13:37):
the options or were you kind ofa similar boat, maybe looking at more
one thing and wish you had nomore. I think that was similar to
Eric in the sense that I wasaware of a variety of different options.
My mom works in as a psychNP, and so I knew at least
about nursing, I knew about beinga position. I knew about, you
know, pt ot athlete train justhaving been in sports, but I really

(14:01):
didn't maybe know about some of theother write of options. And I certainly
didn't know about PA back and whenI was in high school. So I
echo Eric in the sense, Ithink it's really awesome that our program was
able to send students from a PAprogram to share with high school students they're
different options. I think that's totallyamazing and really gives to an opportunity to
figure out or start to figure outrather what it is that they maybe want

(14:22):
to do. Right Like, Idon't know that any of us really know
for sure what we're going to bedoing with the rest of our labs,
so we're back in high school.But the ability to at least explore our
different options, I think is reallybeneficial. So I definitely would say I
think my experience has been similar toEric, and I would definitely say that
somebody would value learning more about ifI were to have this opportunity again.

(14:43):
Absolutely one of the kind of backgroundsof why that question is important to me
and why I feel like it's onethat I want to ask is you know,
I grew up in a business familyin a way, and I didn't
even consider science until halfway through myundergrad experience, and then even then,
I didn't know what was available tome until maybe my junie a year and
later of college, and it didas much as I ended up with the
place I wanted to be, itwas a lot of extra time and a

(15:05):
lot of extra work I had toput in to kind of catch up,
or as I wish, if Ihad that greater emphasis or that greater understanding
of what was available to me earlier, I might have made different decisions.
So I appreciate both your honesty inanswering that question, letting you know that,
like even though you did do somethingyou really enjoyed and you ended up
in a place that you really liked, there's still that like, hey,
you know, it might still bemore helpful to just been aware. Maybe
that could help other people on theway if they had questions for me.

(15:26):
So I appreciate from both of you, starting with you this time, Julia,
I'd love to know if there wasmaybe one thing you wish you had
been told kind of back when youwere deciding on science and kind of when
you were deciding on your future careerthat might have helped you in your journey.
You know, when I think backto that time in my life,
I think that I was pretty certainI was doing something involving working with people.

(15:50):
I don't know that they're really tellingme anything specific really would have changed
how things kind of played out,except for maybe having a more formal education
regarding the different fields, so likethis podcast back on high school, I
think would have been very helpful forme. But apart from that, I
really don't know that any particular situationor a person really would have made that

(16:10):
much of a difference in how thingsplayed out for me. I think it
was more just a matter of learningon the job and on the go as
I had different life experiences where Ifit best, and then ultimately, I
think just discovering about who I amas a person. Absolutely absolutely. What
about you, Eric, you isthere something you wish you had been told
about the science field before you kindof really pushed into it. Yeah,
I mean, kind of to echoJulia, I don't know if there's anything

(16:33):
that really would have changed my decision, But like she said, having access
to resources such as this podcast toreally get a good overview of what each
profession entails would have been helpful.You know, in high school, you
like you said, does anyone trulyknow exactly what they want to do?
Like even I was locked in highschool, but it was like how much
did I really know? You know, you're still just a seventeen eighteen year

(16:55):
old kid at most, you know, as a senior. But I remember
when I did my high school rotationin athletic training, they had a teacher
who taught like an intro to sportsMedicine course, which was just something we
didn't have at our high school.And I don't know how common that is,
but something along those lines would begreat because, yeah, it's focused
on sports medicine and probably athletic trainingto an extent, but as an athletic

(17:15):
training you interact with so many otherhealth professionals. That's a great way to
use that course to introduce the roleof all those other health professionals. And
who knows, maybe the person comesinto class initially thinking about athletic training and
they end up going a totally differentroute just due to hearing about these other
roles. So I think stuff likethat would have been nice in high school,
and I'm sure some high schools haveit, but a lot probably don't.

(17:37):
Absolutely, And I appreciate both youragain, your honesty and that question,
and it's it's cool to see thateven again for both of your pathways
finding a place that you like thatthere again still is that value in learning
and that you even wish you wouldhave learned more in that. So I
appreciate from both of yea. Butwith that said, we're going to move
into the meat of today. Thereal real reason I brought you both in
today, and that's to learn aboutthe athletic trainer career. So starting off,

(18:02):
we're going to kind of keep ourtrend going here, and we're stood
off with you Eric this time.I'd love for you to describe to me,
kind of in your perception, whatis an athletic trainer and maybe what
was the real, like big reasonthat you found out about it and you
really kind of went for it.Sure well, Athletic trainers are certified health
professionals. They specialize in acute careand emergency management, orthopedic evaluation, rehabilitation.

(18:27):
You know, there's many domains inathletic training that kind of get forgotten
about injury prevention, all these thingsbecause when they see them on TV,
it's just they're running out onto thefield or corks or ice whatever with a
water bottle or you know, theysee that. You know, you just
see the easy parts of the job. Necessarily, you don't see what goes
on behind the scenes. And sothere's a lot that goes into it on

(18:47):
a day to day basis. Andit also depends what setting you're in.
When people think of athletic training,they typically just think of either high school
or college or pro sports. Butthere's you know, the clinical setting.
You can be in this physician extenderrole, which is unique in and of
itself. But there's the industrial role, there's performing arts, there's military.
I mean, there's so many differentroutes you can go as an athletic trainer,

(19:08):
and like Julia said, finding whichone works for you and which one
really kind of fills your cup atthe end of the day is important to
figure out. But the point ofme saying that is each day for all
of those different settings is going tobe different. So and how did I
find out about it? I kindof alluded this earlier, but being injured
in high school hockey player and gotinjured my junior year and got exposed then

(19:32):
and did some rehab for a coupleof weeks, and then senior year I
had a more significant injury where Iwas out for a couple months, actually
dislocated my sc joint and for acturemy clavigal So pretty pretty rare injury.
Actually, Yeah, but I gotto spend a lot of time in the
athletic training room and that's when Ireally you know, I was a senior,
so you kind of get more moreof your friends in the room,
and you know, you build areally good relationship. And we had a

(19:55):
different athletic trainer from senior year tojunior years, and I really connected with
the one we had my last year, and he really took me under his
wing, and even when I wasa freshman sophomore in college to get you
know, observation hours that I wouldcome back every spring or fall, whenever,
break whatever it is and observe himon a daily basis. So that's
kind of how I broke into it. And then again my great uncle,

(20:15):
of course, he had a lotof professional experience, so he has plenty
of good stories and good insight intothe career itself. Absolutely, I think
that's a really wonderful description of kindof all the things that did encompass and
ethought I trained your career, andit's I really love that you emphasize it's
not just like what we see onTV, because I feel like, for
a long time that is what Ieven thought it was. And it's cool

(20:37):
to hear all the intricacies and thelittle components that you can do past that,
because it's one of the benefits ofdoing this episode is we can learn
about all those other things that wehave. Julia, I'd love to throw
the same question over to you.Now. Obviously you can't just state that
it's pretty much what eric said andwe can move on if that's what you
want, But if there's anything youwant to add and tell us a little
about how you found out about it, that'd be really appreciated. Absolutely,
So obviously, yes, you know, Erica did a fan test job and

(21:00):
explaining what an athletic trainer is.I think he was spot on every aspect
of the description, and really inthe sense of understanding that we are medical
professionals, right, It's really commonsometimes to hear us portrayed as trainers,
right, or confuse us with likea personal trainer you might see at a
local facility, gym and time stufflike that. But really we are those
medical professionals, you know. AndI've had the unique experience of being able

(21:22):
to work in a multiple different settings. So not only have I been in
a high school setting, but I'vealso been as a physician extender. So
being able to have those dual responsibilitiesand be able to use a different set
of skills in both settings has beenreally rewarding and beneficial. And I think
he's something that's really unique from anathletic training perspective and in terms of finding

(21:42):
out more about it. I likeEric. I think a lot of us
to go into athletic training, Ithink have his experience. I unfortunately had
an injury as well. When Iwas an undergrad. I was a soccer
goalkeeper and I to remember this day. We'll always remember that game against ber
Turbo. And sorry for listeners whomight be at the Turbo, you know
it's going to be what it is. But I got stepped on and they

(22:03):
were a couple of centimeters away frombreaking a bone in my foot, so
it took about six to eight weeksof just being in the boot and then
going from there, you know,with all the rehab that goes along with
that. So I was out forquite a bit of my soccer season undergrad,
and so again that had me thatrelationship with the athletic trainer at that
time, and then eventually, cometo find out, became full circle when

(22:26):
she was done being an athletic trainerat my undergrad I ended up actually working
at the same location and facility asposition extender alongside her, and so being
able to have that relationship from beinga student and then a colleague was a
really cool interaction. So for anyonethat's really serious about athletic training is a
great profession, and I'm looking forwardto telling you guys more about it.

(22:48):
Absolutely well. I love that forboth of you, it's this like,
in a way, a negative experienceled to a very positive journey in your
life. And I just think that'sreally cool. And I know there's some
other meta fields and careers that I'vetalked to that have had kind of a
similar pathway. There's just something uniqueabout medicine where in a way, injuries
and stuff that should be negative,we actually get fascinated by and we actually

(23:10):
want to learn more about. AndI just love that for both of you,
and I also love for both ofyou in a way, a person
who was kind of a mentor foryou or a teacher for both of you
ended up being a person who alsokind of got you your first chances to
practice it. I just think thatis super cool and maybe a cool thing
about the athletic trainer field is alot of times that is kind of how
you get that experience. You canwork with the people that help train and
that's just really really cool. Sonow, kind of an extension on that

(23:33):
question, you obviously told me whatit is, I'd love to hear a
little bit more about kind of whata typical day would looked like for each
of you. And I'll start withyou this time, Julia, kind of
let me know when you were doingyour big days as an athletic trainer,
you're working your hardest time, yourbiggest hours, what did a typical day
really look like for you? SoI'll give you two brief examples mostly just
then, Emily, both settings.So, as a high school athletic trainer,

(23:55):
our busiest times are really going tobe a winter season, fall season.
You're working anywhere from sixty plus hours, and it typically starts after school.
I would get there about an houror so before this day would be
done for the students and make sureall my paperwork and everything else is ready
to go. And then athletes startcoming in and we're doing potential emails.
We're doing pregame workouts, pregame taping, pregame prep, We're doing a rehab

(24:19):
if they need rehab, We're doingpre practice. I'm checking in with coaches.
So it becomes a big multitasking event. And then we have the event
practices, games, what have you. You're there for sessing any injury,
any potential complication, providing education toathletes and or parents if there is an
injury, or coordinating transportation to localservices if there's an stenuint injury that you

(24:42):
need evaluated that night. I dida lot of communication with the local hospital
that I worked for, as Iwas able to get athletes in either that
day or the next day you givenour relationship. Jumping over to the physician
extender side of things, I workedalongside APA and our surgeon in a foot
an angle specialty, and so Idid a lot of check in and rooming

(25:04):
of patients, going through their briefhistory of vitals, why are they there,
et cetera, and find it preppedthem to see the provider that posts
their visit anything from providing an HPhome exercise program to splinting to casting,
to fitting a brace, walking withcrutches, further scheduling any of those types

(25:25):
of things I would then be ableto do. On occasion, a provider
would have me go through a basicorth evaluation if they felt it was pertinent
and was needed for the day.So you can see that they're both very
two different settings, but they're alsovery different different times and often with the
position extender too, we would seemultiple patients at any given hours, so

(25:45):
it wasn't not uncommon for me totell my the PA that I was starting
with, Okay, I'll room atthis two minutes. Just give me like
three minutes to finish this cast andthen you know, like you're jumping from
thing to thing, And the samewould be on like on a really busy
day in as a high school.So definitely both exciting, both rewarding,
just very different. Absolutely, Iappreciate that. Similar to our last question

(26:07):
here, Eric, if it's prettymuch the same answer, then feel free
to say so otherwise, tell usmaybe some of the differences or some of
the things that you experienced on kindof your typical day. Sure, I
had two settings as well. Oneof them was the physician extender role,
so kind of echoing Julia, there, it's your more standard hours. You're
nine to five, you're seeing,You're kind of running all over clinic basically
trying to help expedite things in clinicfor the physician. You know, like

(26:32):
you said, you may be doingan exam so that when the physician goes
in he's got his differential down toone or two things. Really, we
did a lot of injections, soprepping injections, so cortico steroid injections,
trigger point. My adopted some botoxinjections for headaches, which was always cool
to see for migraines. So thatwas definitely much different than my day in
Utah. So I was a gradassistant athletic trainer there with club sports,

(26:56):
primarily with men's and women's hockey.So I would get there and an hour
started about eleven am, and wewould run them eleven to four and then
hockey would typically practice. I thinkit was four fifteen to five fifteen,
So I'd leave clinic a little earlybecause my mentor the other at with club
sports was there, and I'd getto practice maybe half hour early. Like
Julia said, you're doing any taping, any rehab if they didn't come to

(27:18):
clinic, which you're always chasing theathletes down, and then yep, you're
there at practice in case anything happens. And then after doing any EVL or
checking in with athletes coaches, andthen the fun part is the games on
the weekend, so Friday Saturday,we'd typically either have home games or we'd
travel, so on busy weeks,right like if we're taking as club sports,
you're not flying on a private plane, so you're you're busting down to

(27:41):
Arizona for an eight to ten hourtrip, you know, there and back.
And I'll never forget this one trip. I think it was to Tucson,
which is I remember about fourteen hourbus ride from Salt Lake, and
we played a Saturday Sunday series andon Sunday we'd bust back right after the
game and we got home at aboutseven or eight am, and I remember
kids were getting right off the busand going to class and so yeah,

(28:04):
sometimes the travel, the travel sideof things in the collegiate, the you
know, the pro setting, clubsetting. You know, it can be
pretty brutal at times, and Ithink that's what gets people leaving to more
the physician extender, more standardized hours. But again there's pros and cons.
Everyone loves being around sports, butthere's the schedule that comes with it,
and then you get a more normalschedule, but then you don't get the

(28:26):
sports aspect of it. So youknow, there's each Each settings has its
drawbacks and its benefits. So Iappreciate that from both you, and I
think that was a really wonderful descriptionof kind of really the nitty gritty of
that field. And I love tohear some of the positive stuff, some
of even sometimes the negative stuff.I do believe there's just as much value

(28:47):
in learning about what's great about it, which you know, everybody sees the
sports and that, yes, that'sa big draw, but it's also good
to hear that there's also some negativecomponents of that as well. So I
appreciate that from both YEA, startingwith you this time, Eric, I'd
love to know kind of of whatskills you believe someone would really either need
to have or really need to obtainto be truly successful as an athletic trainer.

(29:08):
Yeah, and I think this reallygoes for any healthcare profession. Is
that bedside manner and being able tointeract with people. You know. I
knew some really smart individuals who justfor whatever reason, weren't great at forming
interpersonal relationships and really not great atthat one on one interaction. And so
no matter how smart you are,how many things you know, if you
can't articulate that or build these relationships, they're never going to trust you.

(29:32):
So it doesn't really matter how muchyou know. And so I think just
being able to build those relationships andget that trust from your athletes or patients,
and just being down to earth.You know, no one like someone
who's superficial, especially if you're goingto be working with them every day.
Just being your normal, authentic self, I think is really important. So
yeah, it's really the interpersonal sideof stuff. Obviously, you have to

(29:53):
have some science background, right,you have to be able to understand the
anatomy, the material rehab, allthat stuff, but everyone understands it to
some extent. It's the ability toconnect with your patients and your athletes.
I think that really separates you fromother people and allows you to thrive in
a career like that. Absolutely,Julia, do you have a very similar

(30:14):
perception or is there some other skillthat you would mention to the same question.
I think I would definitely echo Ericand and pretty much everything he's said.
I think everyone comes down to,when I think about it, really
is just, you know, primarilyinterpersonal with good communication, right Like,
you know, we're communicating with somany different people, so being able to
clearly say what you're feeling, aswell as being able to articulate well what

(30:37):
it is that you need to doand stand by that, and that goes
along with integrity. I also thinkthere's an element of being able to think
on your feet that for some ofus may be harder to fully understand or
be able to emulate, right Likeit's hard sometimes to be able to say,
Okay, I need to think onmy feet and do this and then
be confident with that answer. AndI think that's something that comes with time,
but something that I think is reallyvital, especially with the emergency action

(31:02):
part of being an athletic trainer andhaving some of these more emergent situations that
come up. But I would definitelyecho Eric, I think in everything in
the sense that you know, interpersonalcommunication is primarily absolutely absolutely appreciate that from
both the other. My next questionhere is starting with you this time,
Julia. What were some of thebest parts your favorite parts of the job,

(31:25):
and maybe on the other side ofthat, what were some of the
days that it was the most challengingfor you. You know, I think
that some of the best parts ofthe job of athletic training. You know,
there's so many I think a lotof a lot of my profession is
just so amazing in terms of beingable to see so many different opportunities and
different people. I'm just going toname just a couple, but from a

(31:45):
broad spectrum, it's being able tosee as athletes after a successful win.
You know, the excitement and theenthusiasm from the athletes, not only for
just having the win with the team, but also especially if they were coming
back from an injury, to seethem be successful in returning to something that
they love to do. I thinkthe other side of it, I can

(32:06):
remember clearly being at my internship formy graduate degree in the Dominican Republic House,
so I was working with the SanDiego Padres Club baseball team, and
so for that opportunity, I liveda breathe baseball all week for three weeks.
And the ability to see these youngathletes attempting to get into the major
leagues and really for a lot ofthem, getting into major league baseball meant

(32:30):
getting out of poverty. So fora lot of them, being able to
understand the importance of them playing thegame, and then an attempt to better
better their family. And then similarly, the other part of my internship there
was doing orthopedic rehab and surgery forunderprivileged children, often born with physical deformity,
so we were often casting for clubfeet, we were doing tended transfers,

(32:52):
an attempt to help these young kiddosto have a different life. So
I think those well very unique partsof being an athletic trainer, opportunities that
could potentially happen in terms of someof the worst things for me personally.
Sometimes really really late nights, especiallyafter sending athletes to an er with an
injury and I'm wondering how they're doing. You know, often we send them

(33:13):
and then because of the relationships thatwe've formed, you often have a sense
of Okay, how are they doing, what's going on? You know,
what do they need? And weoften find out later what happened or what
they need, but during those initialmoments, because of the relationship you have,
there's a sense of almost worry andconcern for them. And then additionally,
knowing that when an athlete has aninjury, there's often this level of

(33:37):
frustration and then they as the athletehave to work through that frustration and figure
out how are they going to workthrough that? And knowing that we as
the afflete trainer, can't magically fixthe problem, and that give a moment.
If they have a six week healingperiod because of a fracture or broken
bone, there's obviously frustration with thatand not being able to play. So
then helping them to see and workthrough that is a pod but it's hard

(34:00):
as the athletic trainer to not beable to I guess I measually fix it.
And then sometimes you know, thelong hours or days in the middle
of a really busy season or sometimesvery challenging. But the plus side of
that is knowing in the summertime there'sless of that. Kiddles are in school,
so then you have a little morefree time, So I think those
for me are some of the bestand some of the challenges that come with

(34:21):
being an Alfley trainer. Absolutely appreciatethat. Julia, Eric, what about
you, What were some of yourwhether the same or not, some of
the best parts for you, andwhat were some of the times you found
it more challenging. Yeah, Ithink Julia hit a lot of them on
the head, so I'll try notto repeat too many of the same things.
But I kind of mentioned it earlier. I think the relationships is it
was is and was one of myfavorite parts of athletic training, especially when

(34:44):
I was out in Utah with withthe hockey guys. You know, they're
coming and seeing me every day inclinic, then we're going to the rink
together, then we're at games together. So you really get to know these
guys really and girls really well.And seeing someone, like you said,
at their lowest point, you know, that initial injury, illness, you
know, whatever it may be,they're they're at a really low point because
this is their whole identity. Theyidentify as a hockey athlete, a football

(35:07):
athlete, whatever sport it is.And when you get that stripped away,
from you. It's it's a lottougher them. People really know until they
are in those shoes, you know, and so being there for them,
seeing the improvement, the excitement andrehab when they're able to finally do something
that they couldn't put any weight onit, you know a week ago,
and now they're doing mini squats orsomething. You know, it's these little

(35:28):
little improvements, and then you getthem to the point where they're practicing in
non contact, and then they're doingcontact, and then they get to the
game and you just see them,you know, how excited they are to
be back, and you know,they may go out and score a goal
and they come back to the benchand they give you nuts and they say
thanks for everything. You know,it's those little things that really make it
all worth it because you know howmuch work went into it. You know,
it may just be that one thankyou, but you know that means

(35:49):
the world when you were there forthem through that whole time. So that's
that's really really rewarding. Obviously,everyone thinks about having front row seats to
sporting events, which is always agood thing, but you know you're watching
it from a different lens. I'venever been so nervous. I don't want
to say nervous, but you see, you know, oh, if they
lose an edge here, they're goingheadfirst into the boards, where if you're
watching it as a fan, it'slike, oh, they're just going into

(36:12):
the corner. You know. Youstart playing some of these scenarios in your
head watching the events, and they'restill fun, but you're a little bit
more on your toes watching the gamesthan you used to be. In terms
of the most challenging, I mean, Julia touched on it, depending on
your setting, the hours can gettough, especially in season, and I
think that is a big drawback fora lot of people in the field.
But to me, it never reallyfelt like work. So I may be

(36:32):
there for twelve hours, but itjust feels like I'm you know, I'm
just doing what I love. Andalso, depending on your situation, some
coaches can be pretty challenging, youknow, especially as you get up the
ranks in college and pro you canget a lot of pushback to trying to
take a guy from play. InUtah, I had a coach. We

(36:52):
had a lot of concussions the firstyear I was there, and of course
it was my first year. SoI don't want to say you have to
prove yourself, but in a sense, they don't know you that well.
They don't try to do that well. And we just had a ton of
concussions, and I remember in thesecond half of the year, you know,
another could have got one and he'sstarted to question me, you know,
why are we having them all thisyear? You know, basically questioning
like am I do they really haveone or not? At the end of

(37:13):
the days, it's a contact sportman. You know, these things are
going to happen that you can't avoidthese things, you know. So for
the most part, I always hadreally good coaches. Then I ended up
forming really good relationships with them,which makes your job a ton easier because
if you tell them, hey,he's not coming back, they don't even
blink an eye. They're just okay. But I know some people who have
not had the benefit of that situation, and some of the worst parts of

(37:35):
their jobs or coaches meetings are havingto deal with with the drawbacks of that,
which is unfortunate because they really shouldn'thave a word in those type of
situations. Absolutely, and I appreciateyou, once again the honesty from both
of you, and obviously the goodthings, the fun stuff, but then
also the stuff that was challenging.I do think that's again just as valuable
as as some of those good thingsthat you mentioned. This is this is

(37:55):
kind of be a unique question I'vegot for you both. So this podcast
is sponsored by university based EMS serviceand a lot of times are the volunteers
of the team. We find ourselvesworking at these sporting events alongside of the
trainers, and there's this active workingrelationship that we have with them. I'd
love to know this time, startingwith you, Eric, kind of from
your perspective, I'd love if youcould describe to me a little bit how

(38:17):
you're trained to collaborate with particularly EMSat some of these more event sports settings.
Yeah, and it kind of varieson an event by event basis,
where a lot of times at highschool football they'll have EMS on site,
and we never had EMS on sitefor our home Utah hockey games, but
some of the ones we traveled towould have them there. And at some

(38:38):
of the higher levels, like atmy rotations and Madison for hockey, they
always had EMS there. So there'sa ton of collaboration right when things go
wrong. You want to, forone, to have a solid understanding of
how things are going to go throughthe chain of command, how is this
going to get kicked off if thingsgo hey, why are here? So
I've always had a great relationship withthem in Utah. So my first year

(39:01):
was kind of weird where my mentorshe was on maternity leave, and so
you know, with that, goinginto the next year, we ended up
having a I guess pre sporting eventyear. You know, in August you
meet with the local ems and tryto go over some protocols and and how
things are going to be handled,which helps a lot because then they see
your face, they know you.You know, there's there's a much better

(39:22):
understanding where that first year I didn'treally have that, and that was the
year we ended up spineboarding two kids. Of course, so it takes a
team, especially if you're going tospineboard someone you know it. So I've
always had positive relationships with them,and they're a vital part to that event
healthcare right when someone does need tobe put on a board or when like
the unfortunately the mar Hamlin stuff thathappened this year, we saw how crucial

(39:45):
it is to have communication between allthese different providers. So and Julia,
I know she worked at the highschool setting, so she can probably touch
even more on it because, likeI said, from the settings I've been
in at high school football, they'retypically almost always there on site, so
she can maybe elabor right on thata little bit more. Absolutely, well,
on that note, Julia, doyou want to elaborate a little bit
more on that for sure? Somy first year as an athletic trainer,

(40:08):
I was actually at a rural highschool, and so I was stationed between
two high schools in northern Minnesota,and from there, at the very beginning
of the season, we connected withthe local EMS and so my senior athletic
trainer and local EMS services it wasa volunteer firefighter basically got together. We
kind of hashed out, Okay,when is the EMS services going to be

(40:30):
there, what's protocol, who's changingthe command much like Eric alluded to,
and it became very very helpful.Like I had a couple of situations where
I needed to utilize EMS and particularlywhen it's for spineboarding, and thankfully the
athlete was okay. But to beable to know that I had that group
of professionals ready to work alongside me, and for us to be able to

(40:51):
work together as a team to havethe best care for the athlete was huge.
Additionally, because I was in arural studying, we actually had ems
as some of the hockey events,which was very helpful because I guarantee that
had I need to spine Cody,you and Ice, I guarantee I'm not
doing that by myself. There needsto be a few of us to try
to do that. And I knowyou understand what I'm talking about. So

(41:12):
yes, we would practice things ofthat nature prior to season starting and a
bare minimum have everything in writing,but it was usually that we would have
some form of practice session and Ithink it's just very much needed in very
much a way for us to continuethe whole idea of strength and numbers.
Right. The more people that wehave looking together to care for athletes and
for people in general, the betterthe outcome. Building off of what Julia

(41:36):
said to so I covered some ofthe state hockey stuff this weekend, I
still do some pr and stuff forTRIA, and I think it depends who
you have on site. So whenthe physician got there, that's one of
the first things we established like,hey, it's me, you and potentially
one other at you know, ifthat high school brought them or not.
So we already had about three pergame, three medical professionals, and to

(41:57):
spineboard someone on the ice, youhave someone at the head and you're going
to need more than two people toget them on the board. So we
established like, hey, we'll calland we'll just stabilize until they get there.
So there's always that sense. Itmay not have been directly with the
EMS, but you always run throughthese emergent scenarios immediately, and especially with
PRN work, it's different because it'snot your setting. You know, you're

(42:19):
going somewhere different every time, youhave to address those things when you get
there. So I just felt thatwas unique to add kind of building off
of that, like we discuss thisstuff all the time. Absolutely, I
appreciate that from both of you.I'll speak a little bit from the EMS
perspective. I know when I wasworking much more for UMMS, we had
a whole team meeting that was entirelydesigned to go over to our ice rink

(42:44):
and practice with the athletic trainers howto ice backboard. So even for us,
it was a very large component ofus as well, and I know
that every single shift that we do, we work mostly sporting events. Every
single one we required our lead tomeet with the athletic trainer to go over
that what signal are you using ifyou need us? It was a constant,
daily thing for us to be awareof where the athletic trainers were and

(43:04):
how they want to do their jobsso we could work alongside them. So
I love to hear that from yourperspective, it's a very similar collaboration because
it was that way for us aswell. Just just a really cool,
I thought question to be able totalk with you about from that other perspective,
because I've only seen it from theone side. So I appreciate both
of you for sharing a lot ofthat. So this time, starting with
you, Julia here, I wouldlove to know if you wanted all pre

(43:27):
health students to know just one thingabout the athletic trainer occupation, like maybe
one thing they don't know, orone thing you really want to emphasize.
What would that one thing be?You know, that's a challenging question because
I think there's so many different thingsthat is unique and interesting about the ethlectronic
repression but I really think that onething I would love just to really emphasize
is that athletic training really is fun. It's fun to be able to connect

(43:52):
with other people, it's fun tobe able to be in sports. It's
fun to be able to know thatyou're making a positive difference in someone's life
on a daily basis. And likeEric said previously, we really get that
unique opportunity right to see patient comefrom the lowest point with injury and take
them all the way back to beingone hundred percent right. That is one

(44:12):
of the things the most unique andfun things about being an athletic trainer.
There are many things that I loveabout it, but I think that's the
primary thing for me absolutely. Whatabout you, Eric, Yeah, I,
like Julia said, it's different tojust choose one thing, and I
could jokingly say that it's different thanpersonal training, but I'll choose something a
little more serious. I think it'syou have the opportunity to be that positive

(44:34):
change each and every day. SoI would always check myself right, even
if I'm having the worst day.Them coming and doing rehab with me for
thirty minutes or an hour that mightbe the bright spot of their day.
You know, so trying to makeeach interaction as positive as I could,
because who knows, maybe one ofthose athletes is going to be an athletic
trainer one day, or you know, maybe they're having just the worst day,
but spending thirty minutes with you andyou're in such a good mood working

(44:58):
to hype them up and cheer themthem up totally turns their day around.
So I think kind of checking yourself, and you can say this for really
any health profession too, is checkingyourself at the door and realizing if you're
having a bad day, whoever you'reabout to see, it's not their fault
either, right, So being ableto make that positive impact and build those
relationships again, I'm going to harpon that, so the day this ends

(45:21):
is really the awesome thing I thinkabout athletic training. Absolutely. I know
that can be a challenging question iskind of said at the beginning, but
I love both of your answers tothat, and I do think that is
one hundred percent or a really coolthing for people to know about, and
maybe if they don't know it,to really have it emphasized once again so
they can have it be a considerationfor them going into the future. With
that, we're going to move onfrom our athletic trainer kind of career section

(45:44):
here and we're going to move intoa big thing we also, do you
hear at thelets chat series is notjust tell people about the career and what
you love about it, but really, if they want to pursue it,
how do they get started? Howdo they enter that journey? So this
time we're gonna kind of start withyou. This time, Eric is say
I know nothing about the athletic trainer, but I'm interested in I want to
know more. I really care Andif I really wanted to learn more,

(46:05):
where should I look or maybe whoshould I talk to to learn that information?
Yeah, I mean there's a coupleof routes you can go. So
obviously from a experience standpoint, youcan get in touch with your local high
school or college athletic trainers or youknow, depending on what's setting you're interested
in shadow a couple settings, butget in touch and do some observation hours
and just see what does a daylook like in their careers At everything I'm

(46:27):
thinking it is or am I totallyoff on what an athletic trainer is or
what they do, so, Yeah, getting in touch and doing some observation
hours. I mean, Julie andI both said we kind of got exposed
to it through personal injury unfortunately,but that's a great way to see the
day to day function of an athletictrainer. And just I mean a quick
Google search too. You can there'sthe Google what is athletic training and you

(46:52):
can learn a ton, you know, in a very short time. I
mean, there's national websites you cango to. If there's a certain college
you're interested in, you could seeif they have an athletic training program,
and you know, they usually havegreat informative sites, but they also have
This is kind of jumping ahead,but like prerecs and kind of what you
need to think of moving forward ifthat's the route you wanted to go.
But I think the easiest initial stepis get in touch with an athletic trainer,

(47:15):
and even if that's just an emailor doing some form of observation.
I think that's a really good placeto start. Absolutely, what about you,
Julia, Is it pretty much thesame answer or there may be some
differences in what you'd recommend. Ithink I think Eric said it very well,
just from everything he said there makesa lot of sense, and I
think would be the exact way theproach that I would take again if I
were to do it again, Iwould definitely, you know, start observing

(47:37):
and then move from there into learningmore about it through either the websites that
I'm sure we'll go into talk aboutwhich talk about our profession more, or
just looking at talking with those thatare currently athletics of being like, okay,
what do you like? What don'tyou like and just having those conversations.
So I think you hit it onthe head perfect well with that,

(47:57):
then, Julia, I'll throw thisback at you now kind of an extension
of that question. If I wantand I did all that research, did
my Google search, I maybe observedfor a little bit, Now I really
I want to become an athletic trainer. Kind of a big question here is
how do I get started? Butwith that I also have listened in here
is there an application process? Arethere pre RECs, certifications, trainings,
any big costs associated with it?And then like if I were to start,

(48:19):
how long would it take for meto train? Factor in all those
kind of questions and to your answerfor that for sure, So I think,
honestly, at this point the ethleictrainer fresh and traditionally was you got
your athletic training degree as an undergrad, so you did four years undergrad and
then you were able to go andsit for the certification exam. My understanding

(48:40):
is that now that we are tryingto move to where it's master's level,
so you're required to have a fouryear undergrad pre RECs done and then you
apply to for graduate school to becomean afthletic trainer. I think the the
idea behind that is then being ableto have enough of a science background to
have you be ready for the intensityand the formalities of the athletic training training.

(49:04):
So anyway, with that being said, there are a couple of different
areas you can go to look atfor information of what you're gonna need.
There's the BOC website and there's NATA, which is the National Athletic Training Association.
They're going to give you a longerlist of things you may want to
consider, things to maybe look at. Overall costs the class will vary depending
which program you go to. SoI chose to go to a private institution

(49:29):
so that classes can be a wholelot higher versus if you could go to
a public school setting, and that'sgonna be a little bit different. So
depending on your state and what schoolyou're looking at, is going to very
little bit on the cost. Andthen alongside of that, you're gonna have
your traditional things that you're gonna need, like PR certifications, what were passage,
it's a lot of these other trainingsthat actually happen mostly why you're in

(49:50):
school anyway, but they're just youknow, the general things that most healthcare
professionals are required to have. Andthen from there at that point, you
know, once you get into schooland you pass your exams and you graduate
with your degree, then you're ableto stick for the board exam and then
you're off and run in. Soit's about a two year graduate program.
At least that's what mine was,and Eric may have had a different experience,

(50:12):
but at least as I think we'rewe're heading towards now is that they're
trying as a whole to be agraduate level certified. Absolutely appreciate that,
Julia, Eric, is there anythingyou want to add into that from your
time or is it pretty much thesame answer? Yeah? Definitely similar.
So you know, when I didit. It was at the bachelor's level,
so we took, you know,our two years of pre RECs applied,

(50:34):
and then assuming you got in whenyou wanted to, you started your
junior year and you could do ourprogram in four or five semesters, and
a lot of people would choose fivejust because your credit load got more spread
out throughout an additional semester, andyou had an additional semester of clinical experience,
so you had another rotation to dobefore you you're on your own.
But like Julia said, now nationwideit's moving to the master's level, similar

(50:55):
to how physical therapy moved to thedoctorate level, you know, a couple
of years ago. For better orworse. That's where we're at now,
and I think long term it'll begood for the profession. It's kind of
tough right now because prior to that, like when I got my master's out
at Utah, I was already certified, so I was able to you know,

(51:15):
work while I was in grad school. So they gave us a tuition
waiver, so I didn't pay anytuition for grad school and we got a
living site. I actually made moneyin grad school where these people now if
you're interested in athoutic train you takeon undergrad debt, and now that program
that was now at the undergrad levelis in a master's level, so you're
taking out additional costs for that.So you know, I'm blessed to be

(51:37):
have it happened when it did forme. I think that was perfect for
me. And it was a greattwo year clinical experience at the grad school
level too, because you also hada mentor, which was awesome. But
in terms of prerecs and things forspecific programs, I would just say go
to that program's website because as weknow too for PA school, they're generally
the same, but there are certaindifferences among programs. I was just preparing

(52:00):
for this, I was looking atUW. Madison's Athletic Training prerecs and it
was pretty similar to what it was. You know, when we applied at
the undergrad level. You have yourbasic chemistry, your bio, your physics,
some form of stats, anatomy andFIZZ, which that's the only difference
I really noticed is anatomy and PHIZZwas typically done in the program since we
were in undergrad where now they havethe extra couple of years, so it

(52:22):
makes sense you're doing those pre RECsbefore you apply. So I would just
say, if you're interested in acertain program, make sure you're checking out
their website and making sure you're gettingthose prerecs done, because you may look
at one program and only use thatand the next thing, you know,
a different program requires OKEM or something, and then you're kind of out of
lot there. But like Julia said, yeah, after you're done with the

(52:43):
program, you sit for your certificationexam and you're off and running. And
a lot of athletic trainers after graduationwill tend to get additional certifications, like
I got my CSCs, which isCertified Strength Conditioning Specialists, and a lot
of AT's get that because it's agreat way to kind of bridge late stage
rehab with sports performance, because that'skind of what late stage rehab is anyways,

(53:04):
you're trying to get them back tosport and improve their performance in that
sport. So getting that extra certificationis really common for athletic trainers, and
I think it provides a lot ofvalue if you're in that traditional setting.
Absolutely appreciate that from both you.I think that was a very great summary
of everything that it kind of takesto kind of move it in there,
and and I love your descriptions ofhow it's changing. Obviously, we could

(53:28):
send out all the information of whatyou did, that doesn't mean it's going
to be helpful for it for thenext group it wants to do it.
So I really appreciate you both beingkind of up to date with a lot
of the current changes in your professionin that way to appreciate that. With
that, we're going to kind oftake a slight detour and we have a
unique opportunity here to not only betalking about athletic training, but talking to
two now PA students pursuing a differentcareer. So us being a pre health

(53:51):
podcast, I see this as avery cool, unique opportunity to talk about
a transition from one medical career toanother and maybe some of the decisions that
you made along the way and whyyou made them. So with this one,
for the people that are listening forjust athletic training, we are going
to circle back. We are goingto end our podcast talking about athletic training,
but we are going to take aslight detour and talk a little bit
about PA here and their stories asbecause we have the opportunity to. So

(54:14):
starting off with you this time,Eric, I'd love to know what were
some of the reasons that you thatyou decided to pursue PA school from your
original kind of athletic training background.Yeah, from my athletic training experience.
To be honest, I didn't reallyknow much about what a PA was.
I had a couple of friends inundergrad mention it, but I never really
took the time to look into itbecause I just had never had any experience

(54:37):
with them. But when I gotout to Utah, every athletic trainer has
a team physician they're associated with,and so our team physician out at Utah
had a PA he was associated with, and our team physician was also the
physician for the Utah Jazz, thefootball team at Utah, So it was
really hard to get our athletes,our club athletes in with him. We
still could, but it was easierto get in with his PA was also

(55:00):
a former athletic trainer, and soI would you know, typically, if
you can, you go with yourathletes to these appointments and seeing how he
functioned on a day to day basisand what he was able to do from
a scope of practice standpoint. Itwas like, Wow, this is really
cool. You know, I couldtake it a step further and still be
in the field I love, buttake it one more step. So I

(55:20):
think that really influenced me. Andthere was a lot of other I don't
want to say a lot, butother athletic trainers that I know and from
undergrad that took the AT to PAroute, and you know, the more
they do, it's like, well, why can't I do it? So
that kind of caused me to lookinto it more. And I did have
to take a little time off.I didn't want to go straight from Utah
grad school into PA school, soI took you know, a year and

(55:42):
a half the work, or soalmost two years I guess. But yeah,
that was kind of my influence thatgot me looking into being a PA.
Absolutely. What about you, Julia, is it similar reasoning? Different
reasoning? What do you feel aboutthis question? A similar reason to Eric?
I think my first introduction to PAS, honestly was back in the Republic
when I was doing my internship formath Flight Training program and I worked alongside

(56:06):
a PA and ortho surgeon, andI remember clearly actually at one point during
that time that the PA looked atme and said, well, I'll I'll
see a future and we're you know, basically said to me something like I'll
see you and you're a PA.And I remember thinking back to myself,
going, I think you meant tosay atc okay, got it? You
know, like all right? Littledid I know that about five years later,

(56:30):
five six years later, I wouldbe sitting almost now with my first
year of PA school. So Ithink for me, like Eric, it
really became just this realization that Ilove what I do, but I want
to do more. I want tomake more of a change. I wanted
to take more of a more ofan influence. I want to take my

(56:51):
patients even one step further. Throughmy own journey, I had some of
my own experiences that really taught mesome different life lessons and and those would
be more different a different time,but for the purpose of this, it
really just caused me to realize thatthere's more that I can give and there's
more that I'm called to do.And throughout that time, obtained some additional

(57:14):
certifications that took a different look athow medicine can be practiced and how I
could function as a practitioner. Andso I realized then that for me,
the greatest change that I could haveand influence my patients is really just what
I've done for myself. And ifI've completed these challenges, I now have
the tools then to influence and helpmy future patients. So I think for

(57:36):
me that became kind of the drivethen to want to make the difference for
others is because of what I personallyhad to experience. So I think that's
for me how I decided to goto the per row. Absolutely appreciate that
from both you. It's really coolto hear your stories and some of your
passions and really what's wanted to makeyou in a way reach for the stars

(57:57):
and try a new thing. SoI appreciate that from both the We're going
to kind of wrap this next twoquestions together and kind of ask them as
one, and we'll start with youthis time, Julia. First of all,
how is your experience as an athletictrainer prepared you for PA school and
your career as a PA? Andthen with that, have there been areas
in your studies particularly that you've noticedthat your athletic training background is really really

(58:19):
helpful, or maybe areas that youmaybe feel like you're a little more behind
than some of your classmates. Whatdo you think about that? You know,
honestly, I feel like that athletictraining experience has been very, very,
very helpful for school. I don'tknow that there's an area that I
feel like I'm behind. I'm consideringmy classmates. I feel like there's a
way that my experience has been enhancedbecause of my background, the patient care

(58:42):
experience that I've had to be knowingsome of how to do an EVO and
write a rehab or h GP iswhat we like to call it, or
the ability to communicate effectively not onlywith my athletes, but also with colleagues
in relation to what I think athletesneed. So all these your personal relationship
skills, communication, you know,learning like I said, evaluation assessment skills,

(59:06):
with the perporate decision making right like, I think all of those things
in compass together. We're very mucha part of my life as an athletic
trainer, and so being able totranslate that now to what we're learning in
PA school I think is extremely effective. Yes, I think that'd be probably
the biggest ways for me to explainhow I feel like my AT has been
helpful for my PA. Absolutely.What about you, Eric, is it

(59:28):
a similar perception or is there somedifferences for you? Yeah, I have
nothing but positive things to say aboutmy athletic training experience. Like Julia said,
you learn how to do an email, how to do rehab, and
you do the emergency management side ofthings as well, so where you have
thirty seconds or less to decide amI activating MS here or not? Or
am I holding this person out ofplay or not? And so you're forced

(59:52):
to make sometimes really hard clinical decisions. And you know, I feel like
that's an experience that maybe not alot of us have coming into PA school,
you know, especially if you're inthe traditional setting like at the high
school or in the normal sports saying. You're you're responsible for all aspects of
healthcare. And obviously you have yourteam physician and PAS that you can refer
your athletes onto. But that's everyevail, that's every rehab, that's every

(01:00:15):
return to play, and of coursethere's other professionals that take part in that,
but you're really the centerpiece of allthat. And so I think it
has I don't want to say therewas anything that was the least helpful.
It was all extremely helpful and kindof laugh now because we're in our ORTHO
unit and it just seems like abig, big review for Julia and I,
which has been awesome. But it'salso great because we can help our

(01:00:37):
classmates as well in terms of thephysical exam or certain tips and tricks to
remember certain things because it's a bigunit. You know, we had about
two years to learn holl of Ortho, where we get about two weeks three
weeks in school here for our PAprogram. But yeah, nothing but great
things to say about how it preparedme for being a PA and PA school
as well. Absolutely, I wantto follow up on statement of us learning

(01:01:00):
from you both. I can't evenbegin to tell you how valuable both you
two have been to at least justto me, but even to every single
one of our classmates. I mean, it has been a widespread comment I've
heard all over the place that theknowledge that you both have and the experience
that you have is genuinely helping alot of us keep up with that pace
because it is it's quick. We'reall learning it quick, but you all

(01:01:22):
really helped in that transition. SoI want to thank you while we're on
that topic, and hopefully you knowI can help you both with something one
day out there, or you know, all of us classmates can kind of
give you that same thing back.But it really has been extra special in
this ORTHO unit recently from both ofyou, So I want to thank you
for that. I kind of havea question. It's a little deeper of
a question, and you can answerwhichever way you feel like is the right

(01:01:43):
way to go with it here,but we'll start with you this time,
Eric, would you recommend the paththat you took to PA to other future
PA applicants, And then with thatgrowing that, would you recommend your path
to md d O nursing public health? Kind of what do you think about
that? Yeah, and kind ofhow we mentioned how the path to being
an athletic trainer is changing a bit, So for me, I wouldn't do

(01:02:06):
it any different. And in termsof how it all laid out, I
loved the experience leading up to PAschool. I wouldn't trade it for a
thing. It was a big partof my life as a growing clinician.
With that being said, now,athletic training you do undergrad but you still
have to do your grad school programwhere it's at that master's level and then
if you were to be and there'snothing wrong with going from athletic training then

(01:02:27):
to PA, but now from acost standpoint is what I would try to
steer people away from. Just Ithink athletic training sets you up wonderfully to
be a PA. But in termsof cost and how how can you avoid
I don't want to say unnecessary cost, because it's a great experience obviously,
but since it's moved to the master'slevel, that that's a big, you
know, big cost take on obviously, a big financial burden for a lot

(01:02:50):
of people. And obviously we wantwe want to help the future generation as
much as we can with you know, avoiding those types of things that or
at least be aware of it,right, you know, at least know
what you're getting into. And interms of the path for other medical programs
MDDO, I always tell people thisis the end of the road for me.
I would not go back to schoolafter this. I've I've hit my

(01:03:12):
wits end with school in a goodway, but I will not be furthering
my education anymore. But comparing PAto MD, obviously the education length is
a lot less, so you know, people looking at med school or maybe
considering MD versus PA. Definitely lookinto the length of how long you're going
to be in school for, becauseyou know, every time I tell someone
I'm going to be going to bea PA, they say, well,

(01:03:35):
what's next medical school? It's like, well, they're not not exactly.
I do not see that in myfuture. And obviously tons of respect for
physicians and everything they do in theeducation they go through. But for some
people just the two years is alittle bit more practical and you still get
to do a ton clinically, youstill have a great knowledge base coming out
of school, and yeah, butit's just important, important things to consider,

(01:03:57):
I think for each each path.Absolutely I appreciate that. Julia,
do you have a similar perception onthat or maybe is it a little different.
I do have a similar perception.I think Eric hit on the head
that, you know, if athletictrending was still like his experience was where
it was completely you know more,Mostly, I should say undergrad level work

(01:04:19):
that might make a little more sensethan to get a good base to then
go on to PA or MD orany other higher level education that you're looking
at. But given the fact thata lot of these programs are now mass
and level and the cost that goesalong with that. I think that's just
something that we really have to consider, especially given that you can gain a

(01:04:40):
lot of different experiences in different wayswithout maybe having to endure the cost.
So I think that's something we definitely, you know, need to keep the
back of our program, excuse me, in our minds when I think about
applying it like the AT and movingon to additional higher level like mdd O,
nursing, public health, I thinkthat honestly for me anyway, I'm
like Eric, I think my educationlevel is done. If there's going to

(01:05:04):
be anything further, it'll be likesome more of doctor and education just because
I love teaching and I could seethat, but that's going to be a
future down the road I'm going tobe practicing a while be probably even think
about that. You know, peopleare you know, like Eric have said
to me, so what's up medschool? And I'm like, Nope.
Again, it's a time thing,right, Like I know where I'm at
my life, I know my goals, and there is a time frame that

(01:05:28):
I really just think that I wantto try to honor. So I think
in that regard of like training asfantastic. It's sets you beautifully for almost
any healthcare field. But really,I think you're just gonna come down to
what are your own personal goals whereyou see yourself in five ten years and
what can you honestly financially afford,because that is something that is unfortunately a

(01:05:48):
big factor that needs to be consideredfor any type of formal education. Absolutely,
I appreciate that from both of you, and with those answers that brings
us to our finale. Our final, I guess like two and a half
questions that I'm gonna ask you bothbefore we wrap out our episode. So
this time, Julia will start withyou here looking back on your athletic trainer

(01:06:10):
experience and all those those memories youhave and what you were able to do
and able to accomplish with it.What is one thing that you were particularly
thankful for about that experience? Youknow, Ryan, when I was sitting
here thinking and preparing for today's discussion, I really had to really stop and
think about this because it's one ofthose things you always think it's really easy
to think about, you know,what you're grateful for, but when it

(01:06:33):
comes down to really trying to decidethat one thing or that couple of things.
That's really challenging. It's really challengingto narrow down what I have found
to be so fruitful and that hasmade as much of or more of an
impact on my life than maybe theimpact that I've made on others. So
after some reflection, I really cameto that, I'm I'm thankful for the

(01:06:54):
opportunity to work with so many athletes, coaches, medical colleagues that helped shape
me to be the medical provider thatI am. I know that I would
not be where I am now hadI not had the opportunities to work with
so many different people. You know, I'm they're really thankful to be able
to grow through all these different interactions, the relationships that I've built, not

(01:07:15):
only from my early parts of mycareer working with young athletes on a high
school in the middle of nowhere inMinnesota, to you know, the relationships
that I've obtained and have continued workingwith the providers in North Carolina and Connecticut,
and you know, all these differentplaces that I've had the opportunity to
work in wouldn't have been possible hadI not had the opportunities from the very

(01:07:41):
beginning. So honestly, I thinkthis really comes down to just thankful just
for the opportunity to build so manydifferent, different relationships that really, like
we've touched on so often today,is really one of the biggest pearls and
prides of being an athletic trainer isbeing able to have such unique and diverse
relationships with so many different people.Wow, that was very well said,

(01:08:05):
and I appreciate you you sharing thatfor me and for my listeners. Eric,
I would love to also ask youthe same question here, looking back
on your experience, what is onething that you are very thankful for?
Yeah, and it's going to bekind of the same. It's it's the
relationship aspect. You know, differentathletes, coaches, different experiences. You

(01:08:26):
know, when I went out toUtah, I knew nothing about Utah,
but my you know, career inathletic training took me out there and also
took me to places I had neverbeen traveling with the hockey team. You
know, we went to Arizona,a bunch of different places in Arizona,
we went to Las Vegas. Theseare places I'd never been and it wasn't
for my athletic training position. I'mnot sure I would have been there,
and that experience of being on thefield, on the ice, on the

(01:08:48):
court, all these all these differentexperiences and relationships, I think is is
what I'll always be thankful for.And I think athletic trainers are really prideful.
I think they really take pride andbe an athletic trainer. And that's
how I feel. And that's howalmost every athletic trainer I talk to feels.
And it may be that way inevery health profession, but I noticed
it especially with athletic trainers, andso for me, I'll always be an

(01:09:11):
athletic trainer. I'll always maintain mycertification. This isn't a slight to PAS,
but I'll always be an athletic trainerfirst before I'm a PA. That's
just it's my identity. I can'tyou'll never take it away from me.
I love athletic training, you know, So you know, like Julia said,
it's it's really hard to just pickone thing, but just the experience
in the relationships, it's it wasa really, really enjoyable time. Absolutely,

(01:09:34):
I love some of those descriptions thatyou both put in and I can
I can tell you I can relate. As much as I'm super excited,
I'm gonna be prideful as a PAand I love what I did. There's
always a part of me that like, I found myself in my place in
medicine through my EMT background. Soyeah, I can one hundred percent relate
to that. That pride that youget for the thing that really got you
into the field, that got youto where you wanted to go. There's

(01:09:55):
always just going to be something specialabout that. So I love to hear
that from both of you in thatway. Uh, this next question I
have, I don't need any explanation. It's just if you could choose just
one word, just one word,to describe your entire medical journey. We'll
start with you, Eric. Iknow I saw you exhale there, but
we're still gonna start with you.You could choose one word to describe your
medical journey up to this point.What would that one word be? Oh,

(01:10:18):
that's a tough one one word.I would say exciting, Love it,
love it. Okay, throw thatsame challenging question over to you,
Julia. What would your one wordbe? You know, honestly, I
was gonna ask you if I cando too length those. Honestly, I
was like, come on, man, really one word. But honestly,

(01:10:39):
I think when I listen to mygut, my gut response honestly is inspiring.
Wow, I love it. Seeyou both made it through that question.
Those are really good answers. Oneof the reasons I love this question
is because we do get very differentwords from very different people, and it's
always just really fun to see howthey encapsulate everything they've experienced into one word,
because it is really challenging to do. But I appreciate that from you

(01:11:00):
both. Okay, this is thelast thing we're going to do before we
end out our recording here today,and it's kind of the newer thing I've
been doing inlet chat series. ButI've got a lot of listeners of mine
who are battling their way through applicationsor battling their way through big career decisions
in the medical field. And Iknow that for me personally, I had
a lot of people that were therefor me, that told me important things
that helped me and help me getthrough my own obstacles. And I wanted

(01:11:23):
to allow an opportunity for all myguests that come on to have a chance
to just speak directly to my listenerbase, directly to those pre helped people
fighting their way through and maybe givethem. You'll give you a chance to
say the one thing that might helpthem get over those obstacles, get through
those challenges, and make it towhere they're trying to get to. So
I'm going to do that for bothof you here, and we'll start with
you, Julia, and then I'llgive the same opportunity as well. Eric.

(01:11:45):
I would love just to take thirtyseconds and something that feels right in
this moment, something you want totell that listener base. I'd love for
you to share that for them.So whenever you're ready, Julia, here's
your opportunity. All right, Thankyou, Ryan. So, I think,
honestly, to all the listeners outthere, I think one of the
biggest things that was really helpful forme as I've been through this medical journey

(01:12:05):
is to remember this phrase that I'veheld on to is progress not perfection.
The whole name of the game forme, at least anyway has been progressed.
What is the next thing that Ineed to do? What is not
necessarily the next thing that I needto do five years from now or ten
years from now. But what isthe next thing that I need to do

(01:12:26):
today to better set me up forwhat it needs to happen tomorrow. That
could be simple as showing up everyday regardless of what else is going on,
and doing the best you can,whether you're still in school, you're
in a job, considering a job, change your personal life, etc.
I know Eric mentioned, you know, really checking himself out the door before
going into the athletic training room,and I would totally echo that this is
really what you need to do ifyou think about the next thing and the

(01:12:49):
next best thing you can do tobetter yourself right, and that's going to
help show your persistence and your driveto face the challenges that come with being
in healthcare. And secondly, alongsideof that, along with knowing that everything
has a process. You know,we're constantly told in our ethinic parking about
Augsburg, trust the process, Trustthe process, and I'm going to echo

(01:13:12):
that here as well. Not onlyare you not expected to be perfect and
don't ever expect to be, buttrust that process and know that the relationships
that you're building, no matter wherethey are, who they're with, you
never know the positive impact that you'remaking on someone else and the positive impact
that that relationship you're building may behaving on you as well, and you
just don't know it. So honestly, I think it comes down to remember

(01:13:35):
that it's progress not perfection, andtrust the process. Wow, those are
very powerful world words, Julian.I want to thank you for that.
I want to allow the same opportunityfor you as well. Eric, So
whenever you're ready, feel free toCan I tell us what comes to your
head? Yeah? I think Imean, Julia, I kind of hit
a lot of the points I wantedto touch on. For me personally,
I can't necessarily think like, oh, there's one saying that you know,

(01:13:58):
blah blah blah told me that reallystuck with me. But like Julia said,
looking back, I think taking itday by day and just trying not
to get too caught up in thebigger picture of what if I don't get
into this school or this program,or what happens if I don't get this
position, or you know, youcan really dig yourself a deep hole looking
down that path. So just continuingto show up every day, putting in

(01:14:19):
your best effort day by day,and even if you don't get into your
program. It's persistence. I knowa ton of people that didn't get into
athletic training or peace school on theirfirst try, and guess what, they
applied again and they got in andthey're going to be wonderful finished. So,
like Julia said, I'm gonna stealher saying, progress not perfection,
pushing forward each day and it willall work out. Especially if you know

(01:14:41):
this is what you want to do, You'll you'll find a way to make
it happen. Absolutely. I appreciateyou both for really giving some very powerful
and meaningful words, and then I'msure there's somebody out there who's who's going
to hear that and have more driveand more motivation to push through because of
what you share today. So Iwant to personally thank you for that,
and i' that note we officially cometo the end of our time here on

(01:15:01):
our recording, So I want tothank you both for sharing with me your
valuable time. I'm obviously in theprogram with you, so I know how
hard and how challenging it is tokeep up, and maybe will you two
get a little bit of a breakin the ORTHO unit. You know,
it's still a very time consuming program, and I really just appreciate you to
setting time aside to talk to meand talk to my listeners and really help

(01:15:23):
make a difference and teach people aboutthis really wonderful career. And then even
more than that, I want tothank you personally from my perspective for just
being such valuable people to our classand to me and always being there supporting
me in my journey. You know, whether or not you make a large
impact somewhere else past this' that's yourstory to tell, But you've already made
an impact on me, and Ijust want to thank you both personally for

(01:15:44):
that. But with that, weare going to close out our episode today,
So again I want to thank youboth. I want to thank the
listeners who have been tuning in hereand learning about this great career. Please
go listen to some of my othercontent. We have so much more than
even just the Let's Chat series andall these I keep bringing in wonderful guests
to keep teaching us about all theseother things. So appreciate you all.
Thank you for listening, and Ihope you all have a wonderful rest of

(01:16:05):
your day. Thanks for listening tovitally Stable, a pre help podcast sponsored
by you EMMS. We hope youenjoyed this episode and we hope you continue
to tune in as we explore themany other facets of the pre health world.
Please remember to rate, review,and subscribe so we can continue to
grow the vitally stable community. Ourgoal is to create content that is meaningful

(01:16:26):
and impactful to you. Once again, thank you for your time, and
we hope you have a wonderful restof your day.

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(Episode 22) Let's Chat Series - Let's Chat Athletic Trainer!

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}(Episode 22) Let's Chat Series - Let's Chat Athletic Trainer!