May 20, 2025 • 40 mins
In this powerful episode of Voiceless Behind Bars, host Sarah DeArmond sits down with Maddie, the creator of the podcast Echoes of Innocence, a platform that shines light on the stories of incarcerated individuals whose voices have been ignored or erased by the justice system.
Maddie shares the inspiration behind her work, the emotional connection she builds with each case, and why she refuses to stay silent while others are suffering in the dark.
Together, they discuss:
The wrongful conviction of Bett Bogle
The fight to stop the execution of Jeffrey Hutchinson in Florida
The power of advocacy through podcasting and social media
How listeners can support and get involved
🔗 Connect with Maddie:
📧 Email: echoes.of.innocence1@gmail.com
📸 Instagram: @prison_life_matters
🎧 Podcast: Echoes of Innocence on Spotify
✊ Take Action:
📢 Sign the Petition for Bett Bogle
📢 Stop the Execution of Jeffrey Hutchinson
📸 IG Follow @justiceforjeffhutchinson
💸 Donate to Death Penalty Action
These are the stories the system tried to bury.
But Maddie is making sure they’re heard — loud, clear, and unfiltered.
🎙️ Voiceless Behind Bars — hosted by Sarah DeArmond.
Real voices. Real pain. Real change.
Maddie shares the inspiration behind her work, the emotional connection she builds with each case, and why she refuses to stay silent while others are suffering in the dark.
Together, they discuss:
The wrongful conviction of Bett Bogle
The fight to stop the execution of Jeffrey Hutchinson in Florida
The power of advocacy through podcasting and social media
How listeners can support and get involved
🔗 Connect with Maddie:
📧 Email: echoes.of.innocence1@gmail.com
📸 Instagram: @prison_life_matters
🎧 Podcast: Echoes of Innocence on Spotify
✊ Take Action:
📢 Sign the Petition for Bett Bogle
📢 Stop the Execution of Jeffrey Hutchinson
📸 IG Follow @justiceforjeffhutchinson
💸 Donate to Death Penalty Action
These are the stories the system tried to bury.
But Maddie is making sure they’re heard — loud, clear, and unfiltered.
🎙️ Voiceless Behind Bars — hosted by Sarah DeArmond.
Real voices. Real pain. Real change.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Voiceles Behind Bars. I'm your host, Sarah Dearmund.
It's no secret that wrongful convictions happen all over the world,
but sadly, America's number one when it comes to the
most wrongful incarcerations, and that's not a good thing to
be number one at. However, here on this podcast, we
(00:25):
aim to give the mic to the wrongfully convicted, so
everyone can hear from their mouth what happened in their cases,
what went wrong, and hopefully together we can spread the word,
say their names, and give them the justice that's been
long overdue. Despite what people say, change is possible, but
(00:49):
none of us can do it alone. We need each other.
Change start with us. And while it's not easy, it
is definitely worth it. And again it is possible. Plus
the easy rouse boring anyway, So ready to make history.
This is Voiceless Fine Bars.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Zomby afraid of inside, be care foodstacke, not every light's gone,
and gut your baby. Don't let a very nice big
keep it close to your host O love the pressures.
Kind of job you crazy because you a to the
manness in the morning. It's all kind of Van's Jon
(01:34):
be afraid of side, be care, foodstacke, not every lad
is gone and guide you. Yeah, when I blow up,
I'm gonna say a highlight Peter Pan real life, be
living out my dreams. I'm waking up pers in a
four land.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Welcome to Voice of Fine Bars. I'm your host, Sarah
de Armand, and i have with me my friend Maddie,
who is an I and she's from Norway and I'm
very excited to have her on the show. So Maddie,
thank you for coming on. Could you please introduce yourself
and tell us a little bit about yourself as well.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
My name is Maddie. I'm four years old and as
you mentioned, I am from Norway and that is in
Scandinavia and Europe. I have been an advocate against death
only since I was sixteen and after a document agree
in psychiatry and substance abuse for about twenty years ago.
I have been working in different parts of the healthcare system,
(02:35):
mostly with people who have had their struggles in life,
even with crime or drugs or mental health. I also
have a podcast on Spotify. It's called Echoes of Innocence
and the third season is being released on April twenty first,
and I started that podcast to shed some light on
breath Blowlo's case. He's a wrongfully convicted man and have
(02:58):
been on death row in Florida for almost three decades now. No,
it's actually little more than three decades. I think it's
like thirty four years now, still going strong. Other cases
and I'm so sorry. And on the second season, the
second season in my podcast, I mentioned other cases because
(03:21):
the first season was about brass On his case and
his fight for a new trial. So in the second season,
I was wanted to back up what I was saying that,
you know, because wrongfully convictions they are really real. As
you know, you have some cases you're working on too.
So yeah, so I was mentioned like George Stinny, Lena Baker,
(03:43):
and Joe Already to name a few. But the third
season I was gyving to the prison system and the
legal system and all their flaws. I will talk about
everything from prison conditions, the truth behind Pauls confessions, DNA evidence,
how we're reliable testimony is and so on. So yeah,
(04:03):
that is me.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
These are things I talk about as well. And with
the I remember we talked about this the other day,
how we don't believe in one of the many many
things we agree on, we don't believe in solitary confinement.
That is to torture. And you know, it's one thing
to say, like they're in prison, keep going away from society,
(04:28):
of course, you know that's what prison is for. But
the solitary confinement keeping them in there, you know, buy themselves.
This very very close confinement twenty four seven for months,
often years, absolutely is torture. That is not an effective
form of punishment. I remember an episode of a job
(04:50):
for show last week tonight where it was solely about
solitary confinement was amazing. If you haven't seen that episode,
I implore you to please watch it. It's on you too.
And I still am new to this. I was really
the veil was looking for me about solitary confinement a
couple of years ago, when Commithy was thrown into it,
(05:12):
I already knew it was wrong, but that's when I
from an advocate's point of view, I was faced with it.
Like I said, so when I advocate four, you know,
and then I had advocate for what was thrown into it.
We didn't know what was going to happen. We don't
know how long he's going to be in there. And yeah,
I remember you talked about calife. Didn't you are in
(05:36):
the second season. Didn't you talk about what happened with
him in solitary confinement?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Yeah? Yeah, I was in the Tennessee is and I'm
talking about Kalif Brouder. His case has haunted my heart
for years. Yeah, everything I went down, he was innocent,
and he was in sol confinement for almost his entire
stay in Writers Island in New York. So yeah, and
he ended up killing himself because solcic and timent is
(06:05):
very damaging to anyone's mental health because we you know,
we're humans, we have social beings, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh yeah, No, there's a prison in West Virginia where people,
due to the trauma solitary confinement began like speaking in numbers,
They had hallucinations. I remember Corey Bush, a former congresswoman,
had drafted a bill. Unfortunately it didn't pass, but it
(06:34):
was the band's solitary confinement. And I couldn't have agreed
with her more still do. But another thing again that
we agree on, and this is what harn sold this
interviews about, is the death penalty that needs to be abolished,
and I think I'll know, I'm not trying to appreciate anyone,
(06:58):
but as a teenager I wrestled with it because one
of God, and I was like, I just can't you know,
morally ethically, I agree with it. And in my early pointies,
I turned to my husband, I said, you know, is
the death penalty worked? Then we were seeing dropping the
murder rate, and as I got older, I began researching
(07:21):
it and so no, it's not deterrent. You know, usually
when people commit murder, they're not thing of the consequences.
It's did They're due to rage, They're under the influence
of drugs or alcohol, mentally ill UH A lot of
factors into it. And here in America, states that have
(07:42):
abolished the death penalty have a lower murder rate than
the states that haven't abolished it. And you know, you know,
there needs to be more laws to uh crime prevention,
you know, such as closing the boyfriend loophole, which would
prevent people who canady domestic violence from owning a gun.
(08:02):
You know, there needs to be more mental health care,
but free mental health care gun control. Yeah, So how
about you like, what's up your angle when it comes
to learning about the death penalty.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
And you know, I have always been against the death
penitely in Norway. The last execution was after World War Two.
It was actually in August twenty sixth, nineteen forty eight.
And the definitely was originally abolished in nineteen oh five.
But after the Second World War we had some people
(08:41):
that were like traitors to our country working with the Nazis,
so they reinstated it for a short period of time
to execute people. And the state was so ashamed of that,
but they still did it. But they brought it back,
but then they abolish it for good in nineteen seventy nine.
(09:04):
So the maximum sentence here is twenty one years. Regardless.
We also have some kind of custodial sentence. It's like
they can keep you for life, but every fifth year
you get a hearing and you go back to courts,
present your case and percent if you are rehabilitated or not,
and then the court will you know, with psychiatrists and
(09:26):
stuff like that, depending on the case obviously, but they
will make a decision if it's safe to you know,
release you. So we have you know, we have some inmates.
They are sitting on that type of sentence. But normally
you don't get twenty one years. It's only the worst
worst cases. We had a serial killer. We had a
(09:48):
serial killer many many years ago. He got twenty one years,
but he's out now. He's an old man at a
nursing home. That can be discussed, you know, well, because
you never know, but you know, But that's how it
is over here. We don't have the deaf only we
don't have life in prison because we believe in rehabilitation.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I believe in rehabilitation too. You it's I mean,
the recidivism right here is so high. And that's what's
gonna happen when you put them in cages, when you
feed them the most disgusting food, you torture them. And
when I see torture them, I mean literally you beat them.
(10:31):
You uh.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Sorry, Just this.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
One just gets to me. But you push officers will
put their feet on the inmates, bacs call them racial slurs,
say I'm your master now, I'm not joking, and I apologize.
Just that one gets to me. And yeah, like I said,
solitary confinement and you, I mean they will withhole food
from them. They will also. I just get you get
(11:00):
the picture. I don't need to keep going. But literal torture,
no rehabilitation note like classes regarding therapy you know uh
aa alcoholics anonymous maybe uh just like when it comes
to certain people. I don't want to go into specifics,
but I want them to get counseling. I want them
(11:21):
to learn about what they did wrong and understand you know,
the life that they took, who they took the life from.
And also you know they hurt their own families. Torturing
them is in justice. I want them to learn. I
want to be driven to their head you know what
they did wrong, you know. And also I'm not saying
(11:44):
patable ahead you know it's gonna be okay. Now they
need to learn. But also yeah, like you said, rehabilitate them.
You may give them ways to uh like give an education. Uh.
Also there there are some types of programs. They're just
not enough of them, but they can give to charity.
(12:05):
Oh and they can also like there are some programs
where they can take care of dogs, you know, find
new purpose. I think all that. Yeah, it's great. And
what kind of rebultasie programs do they have in Norway?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Well, the Newelliam prisons. You know, it is kind of
different from prison to prison. We have some prisons that
is not far from a good enough but the meaning
of the person is the only punishment about It's about
losing your freedom. It's about creating good neighbors, rehabilitation education,
(12:40):
proper food, better prisons facilities. You know, the guards that
are interfering more with the inmates. But not, as I said,
not every prison is that good because the backside is
lack of staff, you know. But I will actually recommend
a TV series called Inside the World's Toughest Prison, Season three,
(13:00):
episode four, that is from a person in Norway on
the East coast, that is, you know, I think that
prison is really good. They have a growthery store in there,
and they have jobs like this one guy he was
an interview with. I think he was becoming an electrician
or something. You know, they go to school, they have
(13:21):
you know, but if you don't interfere with the rehablitation program,
they will lock you in in their in yourself and
let you out when it's like yeah, they are making
their own food, so they lock them out to eat
together with the others. So you have to be active
in the rehabilitation program. You know. NOWA is known for
its progressive justice system because it's based on rehabilitation. And
(13:47):
our rate is twenty percent, and that is you know,
for the for risk of going back to prison. And
I read in the United States, I think it's like
eighty percent within five years, and that is insanely high,
insane way high. And here is twenty percent. Right, even
though our system is not perfect, the number shows that
(14:07):
we are doing something right.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, like you said, there
are so many wrongful convictions. I know they have been
all over the world, but America is number one when
it comes to the most wrongfully convicted inmates. And this
also comes to executions. One out of every eight people
are wrongfully executed in this country. Numbers are likely higher.
(14:33):
And I mean, first of all, again against the death penalty, period,
but when it comes to wrongfuel executions, why on earth
would you want to take that chance?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
All right?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I've had people say to me, I'll take those odds,
and I've said, what do you mean you'll take those odds?
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
And there are people, unfortunately this continue who stappen to
see where they have the evidence everything Tay they have affidavits,
they have people who said, look, they didn't do it.
I recant my statement, but they're still executed. And I
need people to understand this is all our tax dollars.
(15:18):
You know, we pay for every inmate per day to
be tortured and not rehabilitated to re enter society only
to re offend again go back to prison, and also
costing them more on death row, and especially when they're executed.
And we have, you know, like I said, awful convictions.
(15:41):
At least two people a day in this country at
least are wrongly convicted. So that's on our state and
federal tax dollars. And yeah, people who are making money
off of this. By the way, it's the politicians. They're
making bank off of this, and it's good.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
It is a bad person profit and not people easy. Yeah,
that's the short version of it. Yeah, they're saying.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
About, you know, don't do the crime, don't do the
don't do the crime, you can't do the time. I'm like, well,
many of them haven't done the crime. And also I agree,
you know, they people who have done the crime, you know,
should go to prison.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
But.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Again they should have a chance to at least be rehability.
And I'm not saying again past them on the head,
just saying, you know, don't give them the opportunity to
re offend. And also what's the point if you're there?
Uh like again, I want my tax dollars to go
to people, to go to programs again crime prevention and
(16:49):
for people who actually committed the crime, not people for
you know, non violent crimes, especially they're wronestly convicted. And
I'm sorry interrupted you.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
What was that? I apologize, No problem at all, It's
just our energy. You know, this is no gosh no thing.
This is the thing we do. This is why we
are put on this earth to do this work. But
the interesting thing is, you know, it's so many wrongfully
connected in US, and of course it do happen here
(17:20):
as well. But if they don't have enough evidence, course
cannot convict you. They will rather less a guilty person
goes than an innocent person being sent to person. That
is how it works over here. But it do happen.
Obviously our system is far from perfect. But also you
(17:41):
know about the death not only it's mind boggling to
me that US is still practicing this. That's penalty because
we know for a fact, the streets are not safer
in means are being executed. It does not that a climb.
It is in the main and irreversible and the risk
of security, innocent people will always be there. And just
(18:03):
to name a few reasons, you know, to embolish it definitely,
and the abolitionis is definitely is not just a legal decision,
is moral and also a social stance. In my opinion,
it's murder for murder, you know exactly. They say killing
is wrong. Okay, you killed someone, Maddie, so now we're
going to kill you for it. Okay. The hypocrisy is
(18:25):
very much alive in my opinion. M hm, sorry, not sorry,
I said what I said. I agree, yeah, and that's
why I'm also you know, the reason I'm starting I've
started my podcast was because I was working on this
case in Florida and he never told me he was innocent.
(18:46):
He was just like, Okay, can you please just take
a look at my case? And I was like, why
what is it about this case? So I started digging.
I was digging deep. I contacted his lawyer and then
his investigator and then Dawnay, this man innocent. He did
not commit the crime. The only evidence they had was
of consensual sex and as far as I know, sex
(19:08):
is not illegal. Murder is. But he never killed her.
So and that is what I'm talking about in the
first season is about his case. I also want to
mention I do have a petition for him, and I
really hope everybody can go and sign. That is change
dot org slash Justice for Breast vogo. So if everybody
that's listening can go sign his petitions, we can get
(19:30):
this man a new trial. That will be great.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, we love it in the description, definitely, thank you
so much. And so he's been on death row over
thirty years, and so it's in a petition. He's in Florida.
And you also know some other people in Florida's death row.
(19:54):
So do you mind telling us a bit about the
conditions and death of Yeah, the death row. Uh, I
hate same section, but they are in a different section
than the others. But can you tell some person conditions
they're death row in Florida.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Well, they all locked them up in cages and that
is like for me if my budgeling, because we are
used to celt back here, you know, in all way,
So they have their little tiny cage and they have
dayroom once a day. Before they had like other guards
from the neighbor or something that was coming in the
military was coming in to guard them, so they have
(20:33):
more day room. Actually, breast lawyers file a lawsuit against
them together with an medler and that's why they have
day room now. And you know, the food is not
the best of obviously, and they have yards twice a week.
And now the summer is coming with no air conditioned
you know, we use Selthius here in Norway. But it's
(20:56):
really hard, let me tell you that. Yeah, yeah, it's
extremely hard. So yeah, the personal conditions if you know, no,
it's just a no, it's not it's far from good enough,
you know. So yeah, and also now with the governor
signing all you know ranger and now yesterday he signed
(21:19):
up Glenn Rogers for execution, he's going on a killing
spree for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Oh yeah, yeah, so I think that last year now
this year, yeah, this year.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, And you know, the people in there are scared
because some of them don't have appeals left. So many
of them that I talked to and support is very
scared for their life. So you know, what can you say?
You know, you may be next, so you just have
(21:52):
to wait it out. Will it be before your neighbor,
You don't know. It's torture.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
M So, as Kay Greg told you, like how it
feels when another person is executors, like what he goes through.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
That depends really, you know, I think over you know,
he has been there for so long, so sometimes he said, Okay,
that was sad. You know, he's obviously against that following obviously,
but now his friend Ranger will be executed on me first,
so this one is personal to him. He was living
(22:33):
in the cell next to Brass and when the guards
came in to pick him up, you know, get Ranger
out and transfer him to Florida Stay Prison from UCI,
they were walking down the hallway and he was like,
please don't stop that, don't stop there, don't stop there,
and they will keep going and going and going, and
he you know, just the fear of who are they
(22:54):
going to pick up? Uh? And it was Ranger this time,
so you know, and Red's birthday is on May first,
the same day that they will kill a Ranger, so
that was extra hard. Yeah, so he was like, yeah,
happy birthday to me. I was like, yeah, he just
(23:14):
has to stay strong, you know, but he hates when
people tell him to stay strong for some reason. You know,
it's always something we say, oh, keep your head up,
it's staying strong, and he's like, I have been strong
for so many years now and being wrongfully convicted. And
he was really angry when he first got to death row.
Obviously he was young, he didn't have a life that
(23:34):
you know, he was not a He did small crimes
like texts and stuff like that, but he's not a killer, right.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Exactly, Like you know, they're not not killed. They would
never dream of that. And some of them, you know,
oh some people you know like those some people for
digits are sometimes present, but definitely not for the crime
they were wrongly convicted of. Absolutely not no, nothing close.
(24:07):
Like you know, prison was a wake up call from
the life they were living. But so they said, you don't, yeah,
I deserve some time in prison, but killing someone they
know they never would have done. And others, you know,
just god, they just didn't deserve prison time at all, Kay,
and everyone exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
You can't rehabilitant everyone, like say, you have those serial killers,
you know, or pedophiles and stuff like that. Pretty behind
bars for you know, safety reasons, but they don't. They
still deserve to be treated like humans and have their
human rights and past.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, and you know with these wrongful convictions, uh, real
killer remains free and they will continue to kill because
they got away with.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
It exactly exactly. Also, you know about your already, you know,
that case was really breaking my heart because they say, okay,
if if the person is not fitted for an execution,
they should not execute them, like if they have you know,
mental unstability or something like that. But your already that
you know. I can't remember exactly what Yeary was, but
(25:17):
it's a long time ago. He was executed. He was
sitting on he was also known as the happiest man
on that road, was sitting in there, yeah, on the floor,
playing with his trains. And then when they came to
get him, they asked him about the last mealing. He
wanted ice cream because you know, mentally he was like
three or four years old. And before they went into
(25:39):
the gas chamber with him, they said like, okay, do
you have any last words? And he turned to the
world and say, can I please finish my ice cream?
After the execution? And these is people, they are still executing. Also,
like Aileen Warnos, he was psychotic, you know. Yeah, they
call her a serious lor I actually disagreed. I have
(25:59):
a a little bit different outtake and what a serious
killer is. Yes, she killed seven men and what she
did was terrible, but she was She didn't kill people
for fun. She didn't have an urge to kill someone.
What she did was obviously wrong and she deserved to
be in prison. But she was extremely mentally. You know,
she was not there the last day. I saw an
(26:20):
interview with her and she was talking about you know,
the police had a corruption against her and they knew
all along. She left being your prince, you know, she
was she was gone. She was struggling mentally. In my
(26:41):
professional you know, I do have a degree in Psychiay,
I do believe she was psychotic at the time, and definitely,
you know, if you look at her life, you know,
with rape and abuse in in the home, she was
kicked out, she you know, becoming a prostitute and all that.
You know, all that trauma will create problems later the
(27:03):
life most likely.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So I really want to bring disability is because of the.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I Q.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Like that.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, Yeah, honestly, I don't know about that with her.
I don't know to be honest, but I do know
she had her struggles with oh yeah, with mental health
for sure. You know that is also yeah, but also
you know when we see who is convicted to the
to die, it's all you know, people from low social
(27:34):
economics backgrounds, you know, black people, you know, people that
comes from poor families and stuff like that. You know,
how is that justice? It's justice for sale over.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
There, that's true.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Yeah, she don't just bail itself out.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah. Because Brian Stevenson, I'm right now listening to his
book or well we'll ab audio books, So listening to his
book Mercy. And when he was first you know, becoming
you know, in law school, and he was in Alabama
and he was you know, on death row. He was
looking at the inmates. He knows most of them were black.
(28:12):
He saw some white people, but he said the comment
denominators that they were all poor.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, And I was talking to him all about that,
and she said, that's exactly it. You know, they're you know,
of course they are the people that they are going
to you know, go after the most for black people,
but you know, especially you know poor people like you know,
like black people. You know, again, they especially when it
comes to race. Yeah, that's the most criminalized. And you
(28:43):
know if you're poor, Oh yeah, it comes economics, said
I they hate poor.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah. And then also talk about George Stinney because his
only so called crime he was black. That's the only
thing that got him kind of mixed it. He was
fourteen years old, he was too small for the electrical
share he needed to They placed a Bible underneath him
(29:10):
to execute him. How is that justice? And then seventy
years later he was yeah, that's the same, absolutely insane.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
And what what else was I think about? Like, there
are you know a lot of people where they're only
rhyme's being black. Like my friend Prentiss Bronds. You know,
he now he had convincted crimes in the past, but
this one that put in prison felt that his only
crime was being black. You know, he was on parole.
(29:47):
He was doing everything you know a person should do.
You know, he was he had a full time job
where he uh, he had a house where he's making
the payments every month. You know, he was there's dayre stellar,
you know, but they they found a reason to put
it back in prison just because you know, again black
(30:09):
man and put it in present life plus twenty five years. Yeah, yeah, again,
that's exactly here.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
In no way we have really strict loves about racism.
And if you meet, if you are unlucky and meet
the justice system you're raised, or how much money you have,
that doesn't matter, you know, because justin is not the
sale over here, but also a good thing. You know.
I'm not saying that my country is you know, it's
far from perfect, obviously, no country is. But here everybody
(30:45):
has the same starting you know, starting point in life
because the education is free. You can get college disagrees
for free. Health care is free. If you're struggling with
mental health, you get that for free. You only have
a you know, to pay a little amount of money,
like say ten dollars, twenty dollars, and when you reach
two thousand dollars you get the rest of the year
(31:07):
for free. And that also includes your medications. So, you know,
because everybody to sort of you know, to have the
same starting point and have the same possibilities in life.
And I think if they have that over there in
the United States, I don't, you know, I think it's
kind of change, you know, I'm not saying that, Okay,
the United States needs to become like Norway because there
(31:29):
we change right wrong here, yeah, and definitely and now
with you know, if I say this, I would never
enter the United States. But I don't care. But with
Donald Trump and everything he's doing over there is mind
boggling to off in Europe and in an Avia where
I live, and every god, I just want to say,
(31:51):
we see you, and we hear you, and we support
you because they're crazy what is going on? See No, no,
we got you back.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Thank you, because uh, like I remember, you know, it
was in projects twenty twenty five, it was laid out
there that he was, you know, going to execute everyone
remaining on federal death row, you know by unfortunately a
commute their sentences. You know, we still you know, Billy Allen,
you know putting that out there. We still need to
(32:27):
uh raise money for him to uh get his uh attorney.
But still, uh yeah, I just, uh like you said,
every day it's something. It's I understand why with some
other countries it's mind boggling. It's mind boggling to us
who uh didn't vote for them, who who kept trying
(32:48):
to warn people And we're still over here going every day.
It's something and it's it's only April.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Yeah April. We will be in December.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
We don't know.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
But you will always have a safe place in my
house in Norway, Sarah. I thank you, thank you, promise,
thank you. But you know, you know, something, something needs
to be done with him, because you know it's the
way he's running that country. And even his mother said,
I really hope he'll never go into politics, you know,
(33:26):
and as a politician myself here in Norway, you know,
I'm just like, what did he say? Really, yes you will, yeah,
he will be like like towards Shina. Now he's like, yeah,
I have the cards. Well China made the cards, So okay,
what is your next argument? Come on? And everything he
does with women, you know, and he's not much up
(33:49):
to the states about the abortions. You know, I'm not
saying that abortions is you know, some kind of bird control,
because it's not, but you know it's but it's the
woman's body. It's her fucking show if she wants to
have an abortion or not, if you know, if she
was raised or the birth control failed her, because that
(34:09):
do happen, you know, though, no abortion is healthcare it is.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
And I was talking to Timothy yesterday. How you know
they're talking about in certain states so giving the death
penalty to women who get an abortion, and Timothy but
like that doesn't make sense, and I'm like, I know.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
No, it doesn't make sense, Karen nor Way. You can
get abortion for free, but not after week twelve of
the pregnancy. Well, actually I do think they changed a
lot to eighteen now or they're talking about it, but
you can also yeah, yeah, actually it's the week eighteen,
but they wait until week five to make sure everything
(34:54):
is gone before they give you an abortion. But you know,
it's not an easy choice to have an abortion. I
never had an abortion myself, but I know, for you know,
from working in healthcare, I know it's never an easy
choice for a woman to have an abortion. And I mean,
no uterus, no fucking opinions exactly. Sorry, that's it, yeah,
(35:18):
really free spoken, That is how we do it in
normally we're really direct.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah. I like that, but also I ask one, you know, Okay,
so when it comes to your podcast, where can we
find it again?
Speaker 4 (35:37):
On Spotify? It's called Echoes of Innocence. The first season
is called Three Decades behind bars, so that's the easiest
way to find it. And you know, as as mentioned
that is on Breath Bogo's case and interviews with him
and stuff like that. So yeah, it's called Echoes of Innocence.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
And how else can we support you your work what
you do because you really like me, You're very passionate
you do, and you do so much good work. I've
admired your work for so long, So how else can
we support you? And it'll just follow along with you,
well you can.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
You know, I'm working solo. I'm not you know, in
any organization for this moment, but I have an Instagram
page called Personal Life Matters the podcast and know from
the petition and also you know, my email address is
at my Instagram accounts LinkedIn bio. If you have if
you have knowledge about a case that deserves attention, or
(36:43):
if you have any questions on how to help. I
actually have an episode that is also coming out in
season three on how you can help. You know, being
an activist is just do it, you know, it's you
know exactly what you're finding petitions, it's contacting the government,
is you know, contact people on the road, be a
support to them, you know, help them with stuff like
(37:04):
like it was something going on with the tablets. They
were checking it. There was a guy from another person.
He was an asshole. So I contacted the warden and said, hey,
listen some of these tablets and I named different inmates
and told them they are really taking care of their tablets,
but it's something wrong with them, please don't take them away.
And the warden made sure that didn't happen. So the
(37:26):
guards there, the sergeants was coming up to those people
and say, hey, Maddie contacted us. There's a human right
activist and she was worried about your tablets. So I
see that. You know, it does work because people are like, yeah,
but what are you doing? Well, what are you exactly
doing as an activist? You know, it's like you are supporting,
Like I'm donating two inmates so they can buy some
(37:52):
better food in the canteen. And sometimes I donate to
Definitely Action. You can go to Definitely Action. Love them play,
Yeah me too. They they are amazing. Actually, in my
podcast the season what's the season one?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Season one? I think I did an interview with the
Abraham Bunawet from their Only Action about their work and
stuff like that. So they do an amazing job. But
they are a graduate organization, so they need donations. So
if you have even one dollar or five hundred dollars,
it doesn't matter because every dollar counts. They need it
(38:29):
so they can go around with these vijas over all
over the country, well your country, to you know, protests
and stuff like that. So yeah, yeah, so you if
people want to reach out, they can contact me on.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Instagram great in as a description putting the petition as
well as the penalty actions information. I support them as well.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
Maddie.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Thank you so much for coming on. Definitely have you
back on in the future with thank you updates and
as well as updates with your podcast. And keep spreading
that word.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Zoon me afraid it inside becare foodstacke, not every light
is kind and cat you baby, don't let a very
nice back. Keep it close to your house. I love
the Preshion's kinda shave you crazy cause your right to
the manes in the morning. It's all kind of man
(39:29):
is joll me afraid itside becare foodstackes, not every lad.
And that's the wrap for today. Thank you so much
for tuning in.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
If you haven't already.
Speaker 6 (39:40):
Please click that follow button so you can get updates
for new episodes and if you'd like to get more
updates about the people we've not only featured on this podcast,
but also updates about other cases as well as other
ways to fight against this injustice system. Please follow me
on social media Instagram, take Time, and blue Sky under
(40:01):
the same user name.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
It's their only. I T S S A R A
h O N l Y. It's their only. I also
have my own five oh one c three nonprofit, Voiceless
behind Bars. That's Voiceless behind bars dot org. And while
I run and own that nonprofit, this podcast, while it
has the same name, because we stand for the same thing,
(40:26):
against the Rompel convictions and we stand against this injustice system.
This podcast is one and owned by the wonderful Prison.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Audio, so one be transparent about that one. So again,
thank you for tuning in.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
Let's continue to make change happen together.
Welcome to Voiceles Behind Bars. I'm your host, Sarah Dearmund.
It's no secret that wrongful convictions happen all over the world,
but sadly, America's number one when it comes to the
most wrongful incarcerations, and that's not a good thing to
be number one at. However, here on this podcast, we
(00:25):
aim to give the mic to the wrongfully convicted, so
everyone can hear from their mouth what happened in their cases,
what went wrong, and hopefully together we can spread the word,
say their names, and give them the justice that's been
long overdue. Despite what people say, change is possible, but
(00:49):
none of us can do it alone. We need each other.
Change start with us. And while it's not easy, it
is definitely worth it. And again it is possible. Plus
the easy rouse boring anyway, So ready to make history.
This is Voiceless Fine Bars.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Zomby afraid of inside, be care foodstacke, not every light's gone,
and gut your baby. Don't let a very nice big
keep it close to your host O love the pressures.
Kind of job you crazy because you a to the
manness in the morning. It's all kind of Van's Jon
(01:34):
be afraid of side, be care, foodstacke, not every lad
is gone and guide you. Yeah, when I blow up,
I'm gonna say a highlight Peter Pan real life, be
living out my dreams. I'm waking up pers in a
four land.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Welcome to Voice of Fine Bars. I'm your host, Sarah
de Armand, and i have with me my friend Maddie,
who is an I and she's from Norway and I'm
very excited to have her on the show. So Maddie,
thank you for coming on. Could you please introduce yourself
and tell us a little bit about yourself as well.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
My name is Maddie. I'm four years old and as
you mentioned, I am from Norway and that is in
Scandinavia and Europe. I have been an advocate against death
only since I was sixteen and after a document agree
in psychiatry and substance abuse for about twenty years ago.
I have been working in different parts of the healthcare system,
(02:35):
mostly with people who have had their struggles in life,
even with crime or drugs or mental health. I also
have a podcast on Spotify. It's called Echoes of Innocence
and the third season is being released on April twenty first,
and I started that podcast to shed some light on
breath Blowlo's case. He's a wrongfully convicted man and have
(02:58):
been on death row in Florida for almost three decades now. No,
it's actually little more than three decades. I think it's
like thirty four years now, still going strong. Other cases
and I'm so sorry. And on the second season, the
second season in my podcast, I mentioned other cases because
(03:21):
the first season was about brass On his case and
his fight for a new trial. So in the second season,
I was wanted to back up what I was saying that,
you know, because wrongfully convictions they are really real. As
you know, you have some cases you're working on too.
So yeah, so I was mentioned like George Stinny, Lena Baker,
(03:43):
and Joe Already to name a few. But the third
season I was gyving to the prison system and the
legal system and all their flaws. I will talk about
everything from prison conditions, the truth behind Pauls confessions, DNA evidence,
how we're reliable testimony is and so on. So yeah,
(04:03):
that is me.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
These are things I talk about as well. And with
the I remember we talked about this the other day,
how we don't believe in one of the many many
things we agree on, we don't believe in solitary confinement.
That is to torture. And you know, it's one thing
to say, like they're in prison, keep going away from society,
(04:28):
of course, you know that's what prison is for. But
the solitary confinement keeping them in there, you know, buy themselves.
This very very close confinement twenty four seven for months,
often years, absolutely is torture. That is not an effective
form of punishment. I remember an episode of a job
(04:50):
for show last week tonight where it was solely about
solitary confinement was amazing. If you haven't seen that episode,
I implore you to please watch it. It's on you too.
And I still am new to this. I was really
the veil was looking for me about solitary confinement a
couple of years ago, when Commithy was thrown into it,
(05:12):
I already knew it was wrong, but that's when I
from an advocate's point of view, I was faced with it.
Like I said, so when I advocate four, you know,
and then I had advocate for what was thrown into it.
We didn't know what was going to happen. We don't
know how long he's going to be in there. And yeah,
I remember you talked about calife. Didn't you are in
(05:36):
the second season. Didn't you talk about what happened with
him in solitary confinement?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Yeah? Yeah, I was in the Tennessee is and I'm
talking about Kalif Brouder. His case has haunted my heart
for years. Yeah, everything I went down, he was innocent,
and he was in sol confinement for almost his entire
stay in Writers Island in New York. So yeah, and
he ended up killing himself because solcic and timent is
(06:05):
very damaging to anyone's mental health because we you know,
we're humans, we have social beings, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh yeah, No, there's a prison in West Virginia where people,
due to the trauma solitary confinement began like speaking in numbers,
They had hallucinations. I remember Corey Bush, a former congresswoman,
had drafted a bill. Unfortunately it didn't pass, but it
(06:34):
was the band's solitary confinement. And I couldn't have agreed
with her more still do. But another thing again that
we agree on, and this is what harn sold this
interviews about, is the death penalty that needs to be abolished,
and I think I'll know, I'm not trying to appreciate anyone,
(06:58):
but as a teenager I wrestled with it because one
of God, and I was like, I just can't you know,
morally ethically, I agree with it. And in my early pointies,
I turned to my husband, I said, you know, is
the death penalty worked? Then we were seeing dropping the
murder rate, and as I got older, I began researching
(07:21):
it and so no, it's not deterrent. You know, usually
when people commit murder, they're not thing of the consequences.
It's did They're due to rage, They're under the influence
of drugs or alcohol, mentally ill UH A lot of
factors into it. And here in America, states that have
(07:42):
abolished the death penalty have a lower murder rate than
the states that haven't abolished it. And you know, you know,
there needs to be more laws to uh crime prevention,
you know, such as closing the boyfriend loophole, which would
prevent people who canady domestic violence from owning a gun.
(08:02):
You know, there needs to be more mental health care,
but free mental health care gun control. Yeah, So how
about you like, what's up your angle when it comes
to learning about the death penalty.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
And you know, I have always been against the death
penitely in Norway. The last execution was after World War Two.
It was actually in August twenty sixth, nineteen forty eight.
And the definitely was originally abolished in nineteen oh five.
But after the Second World War we had some people
(08:41):
that were like traitors to our country working with the Nazis,
so they reinstated it for a short period of time
to execute people. And the state was so ashamed of that,
but they still did it. But they brought it back,
but then they abolish it for good in nineteen seventy nine.
(09:04):
So the maximum sentence here is twenty one years. Regardless.
We also have some kind of custodial sentence. It's like
they can keep you for life, but every fifth year
you get a hearing and you go back to courts,
present your case and percent if you are rehabilitated or not,
and then the court will you know, with psychiatrists and
(09:26):
stuff like that, depending on the case obviously, but they
will make a decision if it's safe to you know,
release you. So we have you know, we have some inmates.
They are sitting on that type of sentence. But normally
you don't get twenty one years. It's only the worst
worst cases. We had a serial killer. We had a
(09:48):
serial killer many many years ago. He got twenty one years,
but he's out now. He's an old man at a
nursing home. That can be discussed, you know, well, because
you never know, but you know, But that's how it
is over here. We don't have the deaf only we
don't have life in prison because we believe in rehabilitation.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I believe in rehabilitation too. You it's I mean,
the recidivism right here is so high. And that's what's
gonna happen when you put them in cages, when you
feed them the most disgusting food, you torture them. And
when I see torture them, I mean literally you beat them.
(10:31):
You uh.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Sorry, Just this.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
One just gets to me. But you push officers will
put their feet on the inmates, bacs call them racial slurs,
say I'm your master now, I'm not joking, and I apologize.
Just that one gets to me. And yeah, like I said,
solitary confinement and you, I mean they will withhole food
from them. They will also. I just get you get
(11:00):
the picture. I don't need to keep going. But literal torture,
no rehabilitation note like classes regarding therapy you know uh
aa alcoholics anonymous maybe uh just like when it comes
to certain people. I don't want to go into specifics,
but I want them to get counseling. I want them
(11:21):
to learn about what they did wrong and understand you know,
the life that they took, who they took the life from.
And also you know they hurt their own families. Torturing
them is in justice. I want them to learn. I
want to be driven to their head you know what
they did wrong, you know. And also I'm not saying
(11:44):
patable ahead you know it's gonna be okay. Now they
need to learn. But also yeah, like you said, rehabilitate them.
You may give them ways to uh like give an education. Uh.
Also there there are some types of programs. They're just
not enough of them, but they can give to charity.
(12:05):
Oh and they can also like there are some programs
where they can take care of dogs, you know, find
new purpose. I think all that. Yeah, it's great. And
what kind of rebultasie programs do they have in Norway?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Well, the Newelliam prisons. You know, it is kind of
different from prison to prison. We have some prisons that
is not far from a good enough but the meaning
of the person is the only punishment about It's about
losing your freedom. It's about creating good neighbors, rehabilitation education,
(12:40):
proper food, better prisons facilities. You know, the guards that
are interfering more with the inmates. But not, as I said,
not every prison is that good because the backside is
lack of staff, you know. But I will actually recommend
a TV series called Inside the World's Toughest Prison, Season three,
(13:00):
episode four, that is from a person in Norway on
the East coast, that is, you know, I think that
prison is really good. They have a growthery store in there,
and they have jobs like this one guy he was
an interview with. I think he was becoming an electrician
or something. You know, they go to school, they have
(13:21):
you know, but if you don't interfere with the rehablitation program,
they will lock you in in their in yourself and
let you out when it's like yeah, they are making
their own food, so they lock them out to eat
together with the others. So you have to be active
in the rehabilitation program. You know. NOWA is known for
its progressive justice system because it's based on rehabilitation. And
(13:47):
our rate is twenty percent, and that is you know,
for the for risk of going back to prison. And
I read in the United States, I think it's like
eighty percent within five years, and that is insanely high,
insane way high. And here is twenty percent. Right, even
though our system is not perfect, the number shows that
(14:07):
we are doing something right.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, like you said, there
are so many wrongful convictions. I know they have been
all over the world, but America is number one when
it comes to the most wrongfully convicted inmates. And this
also comes to executions. One out of every eight people
are wrongfully executed in this country. Numbers are likely higher.
(14:33):
And I mean, first of all, again against the death penalty, period,
but when it comes to wrongfuel executions, why on earth
would you want to take that chance?
Speaker 4 (14:46):
All right?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I've had people say to me, I'll take those odds,
and I've said, what do you mean you'll take those odds?
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
And there are people, unfortunately this continue who stappen to
see where they have the evidence everything Tay they have affidavits,
they have people who said, look, they didn't do it.
I recant my statement, but they're still executed. And I
need people to understand this is all our tax dollars.
(15:18):
You know, we pay for every inmate per day to
be tortured and not rehabilitated to re enter society only
to re offend again go back to prison, and also
costing them more on death row, and especially when they're executed.
And we have, you know, like I said, awful convictions.
(15:41):
At least two people a day in this country at
least are wrongly convicted. So that's on our state and
federal tax dollars. And yeah, people who are making money
off of this. By the way, it's the politicians. They're
making bank off of this, and it's good.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
It is a bad person profit and not people easy. Yeah,
that's the short version of it. Yeah, they're saying.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
About, you know, don't do the crime, don't do the
don't do the crime, you can't do the time. I'm like, well,
many of them haven't done the crime. And also I agree,
you know, they people who have done the crime, you know,
should go to prison.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
But.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Again they should have a chance to at least be rehability.
And I'm not saying again past them on the head,
just saying, you know, don't give them the opportunity to
re offend. And also what's the point if you're there?
Uh like again, I want my tax dollars to go
to people, to go to programs again crime prevention and
(16:49):
for people who actually committed the crime, not people for
you know, non violent crimes, especially they're wronestly convicted. And
I'm sorry interrupted you.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
What was that? I apologize, No problem at all, It's
just our energy. You know, this is no gosh no thing.
This is the thing we do. This is why we
are put on this earth to do this work. But
the interesting thing is, you know, it's so many wrongfully
connected in US, and of course it do happen here
(17:20):
as well. But if they don't have enough evidence, course
cannot convict you. They will rather less a guilty person
goes than an innocent person being sent to person. That
is how it works over here. But it do happen.
Obviously our system is far from perfect. But also you
(17:41):
know about the death not only it's mind boggling to
me that US is still practicing this. That's penalty because
we know for a fact, the streets are not safer
in means are being executed. It does not that a climb.
It is in the main and irreversible and the risk
of security, innocent people will always be there. And just
(18:03):
to name a few reasons, you know, to embolish it definitely,
and the abolitionis is definitely is not just a legal decision,
is moral and also a social stance. In my opinion,
it's murder for murder, you know exactly. They say killing
is wrong. Okay, you killed someone, Maddie, so now we're
going to kill you for it. Okay. The hypocrisy is
(18:25):
very much alive in my opinion. M hm, sorry, not sorry,
I said what I said. I agree, yeah, and that's
why I'm also you know, the reason I'm starting I've
started my podcast was because I was working on this
case in Florida and he never told me he was innocent.
(18:46):
He was just like, Okay, can you please just take
a look at my case? And I was like, why
what is it about this case? So I started digging.
I was digging deep. I contacted his lawyer and then
his investigator and then Dawnay, this man innocent. He did
not commit the crime. The only evidence they had was
of consensual sex and as far as I know, sex
(19:08):
is not illegal. Murder is. But he never killed her.
So and that is what I'm talking about in the
first season is about his case. I also want to
mention I do have a petition for him, and I
really hope everybody can go and sign. That is change
dot org slash Justice for Breast vogo. So if everybody
that's listening can go sign his petitions, we can get
(19:30):
this man a new trial. That will be great.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, we love it in the description, definitely, thank you
so much. And so he's been on death row over
thirty years, and so it's in a petition. He's in Florida.
And you also know some other people in Florida's death row.
(19:54):
So do you mind telling us a bit about the
conditions and death of Yeah, the death row. Uh, I
hate same section, but they are in a different section
than the others. But can you tell some person conditions
they're death row in Florida.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Well, they all locked them up in cages and that
is like for me if my budgeling, because we are
used to celt back here, you know, in all way,
So they have their little tiny cage and they have
dayroom once a day. Before they had like other guards
from the neighbor or something that was coming in the
military was coming in to guard them, so they have
(20:33):
more day room. Actually, breast lawyers file a lawsuit against
them together with an medler and that's why they have
day room now. And you know, the food is not
the best of obviously, and they have yards twice a week.
And now the summer is coming with no air conditioned
you know, we use Selthius here in Norway. But it's
(20:56):
really hard, let me tell you that. Yeah, yeah, it's
extremely hard. So yeah, the personal conditions if you know, no,
it's just a no, it's not it's far from good enough,
you know. So yeah, and also now with the governor
signing all you know ranger and now yesterday he signed
(21:19):
up Glenn Rogers for execution, he's going on a killing
spree for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Oh yeah, yeah, so I think that last year now
this year, yeah, this year.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, And you know, the people in there are scared
because some of them don't have appeals left. So many
of them that I talked to and support is very
scared for their life. So you know, what can you say?
You know, you may be next, so you just have
(21:52):
to wait it out. Will it be before your neighbor,
You don't know. It's torture.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
M So, as Kay Greg told you, like how it
feels when another person is executors, like what he goes through.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
That depends really, you know, I think over you know,
he has been there for so long, so sometimes he said, Okay,
that was sad. You know, he's obviously against that following obviously,
but now his friend Ranger will be executed on me first,
so this one is personal to him. He was living
(22:33):
in the cell next to Brass and when the guards
came in to pick him up, you know, get Ranger
out and transfer him to Florida Stay Prison from UCI,
they were walking down the hallway and he was like,
please don't stop that, don't stop there, don't stop there,
and they will keep going and going and going, and
he you know, just the fear of who are they
(22:54):
going to pick up? Uh? And it was Ranger this time,
so you know, and Red's birthday is on May first,
the same day that they will kill a Ranger, so
that was extra hard. Yeah, so he was like, yeah,
happy birthday to me. I was like, yeah, he just
(23:14):
has to stay strong, you know, but he hates when
people tell him to stay strong for some reason. You know,
it's always something we say, oh, keep your head up,
it's staying strong, and he's like, I have been strong
for so many years now and being wrongfully convicted. And
he was really angry when he first got to death row.
Obviously he was young, he didn't have a life that
(23:34):
you know, he was not a He did small crimes
like texts and stuff like that, but he's not a killer, right.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Exactly, Like you know, they're not not killed. They would
never dream of that. And some of them, you know,
oh some people you know like those some people for
digits are sometimes present, but definitely not for the crime
they were wrongly convicted of. Absolutely not no, nothing close.
(24:07):
Like you know, prison was a wake up call from
the life they were living. But so they said, you don't, yeah,
I deserve some time in prison, but killing someone they
know they never would have done. And others, you know,
just god, they just didn't deserve prison time at all, Kay,
and everyone exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
You can't rehabilitant everyone, like say, you have those serial killers,
you know, or pedophiles and stuff like that. Pretty behind
bars for you know, safety reasons, but they don't. They
still deserve to be treated like humans and have their
human rights and past.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, and you know with these wrongful convictions, uh, real
killer remains free and they will continue to kill because
they got away with.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
It exactly exactly. Also, you know about your already, you know,
that case was really breaking my heart because they say, okay,
if if the person is not fitted for an execution,
they should not execute them, like if they have you know,
mental unstability or something like that. But your already that
you know. I can't remember exactly what Yeary was, but
(25:17):
it's a long time ago. He was executed. He was
sitting on he was also known as the happiest man
on that road, was sitting in there, yeah, on the floor,
playing with his trains. And then when they came to
get him, they asked him about the last mealing. He
wanted ice cream because you know, mentally he was like
three or four years old. And before they went into
(25:39):
the gas chamber with him, they said like, okay, do
you have any last words? And he turned to the
world and say, can I please finish my ice cream?
After the execution? And these is people, they are still executing. Also,
like Aileen Warnos, he was psychotic, you know. Yeah, they
call her a serious lor I actually disagreed. I have
(25:59):
a a little bit different outtake and what a serious
killer is. Yes, she killed seven men and what she
did was terrible, but she was She didn't kill people
for fun. She didn't have an urge to kill someone.
What she did was obviously wrong and she deserved to
be in prison. But she was extremely mentally. You know,
she was not there the last day. I saw an
(26:20):
interview with her and she was talking about you know,
the police had a corruption against her and they knew
all along. She left being your prince, you know, she
was she was gone. She was struggling mentally. In my
(26:41):
professional you know, I do have a degree in Psychiay,
I do believe she was psychotic at the time, and definitely,
you know, if you look at her life, you know,
with rape and abuse in in the home, she was
kicked out, she you know, becoming a prostitute and all that.
You know, all that trauma will create problems later the
(27:03):
life most likely.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So I really want to bring disability is because of the.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I Q.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Like that.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, Yeah, honestly, I don't know about that with her.
I don't know to be honest, but I do know
she had her struggles with oh yeah, with mental health
for sure. You know that is also yeah, but also
you know when we see who is convicted to the
to die, it's all you know, people from low social
(27:34):
economics backgrounds, you know, black people, you know, people that
comes from poor families and stuff like that. You know,
how is that justice? It's justice for sale over.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
There, that's true.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Yeah, she don't just bail itself out.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah. Because Brian Stevenson, I'm right now listening to his
book or well we'll ab audio books, So listening to his
book Mercy. And when he was first you know, becoming
you know, in law school, and he was in Alabama
and he was you know, on death row. He was
looking at the inmates. He knows most of them were black.
(28:12):
He saw some white people, but he said the comment
denominators that they were all poor.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, And I was talking to him all about that,
and she said, that's exactly it. You know, they're you know,
of course they are the people that they are going
to you know, go after the most for black people,
but you know, especially you know poor people like you know,
like black people. You know, again, they especially when it
comes to race. Yeah, that's the most criminalized. And you
(28:43):
know if you're poor, Oh yeah, it comes economics, said
I they hate poor.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah. And then also talk about George Stinney because his
only so called crime he was black. That's the only
thing that got him kind of mixed it. He was
fourteen years old, he was too small for the electrical
share he needed to They placed a Bible underneath him
(29:10):
to execute him. How is that justice? And then seventy
years later he was yeah, that's the same, absolutely insane.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
And what what else was I think about? Like, there
are you know a lot of people where they're only
rhyme's being black. Like my friend Prentiss Bronds. You know,
he now he had convincted crimes in the past, but
this one that put in prison felt that his only
crime was being black. You know, he was on parole.
(29:47):
He was doing everything you know a person should do.
You know, he was he had a full time job
where he uh, he had a house where he's making
the payments every month. You know, he was there's dayre stellar,
you know, but they they found a reason to put
it back in prison just because you know, again black
(30:09):
man and put it in present life plus twenty five years. Yeah, yeah, again,
that's exactly here.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
In no way we have really strict loves about racism.
And if you meet, if you are unlucky and meet
the justice system you're raised, or how much money you have,
that doesn't matter, you know, because justin is not the
sale over here, but also a good thing. You know.
I'm not saying that my country is you know, it's
far from perfect, obviously, no country is. But here everybody
(30:45):
has the same starting you know, starting point in life
because the education is free. You can get college disagrees
for free. Health care is free. If you're struggling with
mental health, you get that for free. You only have
a you know, to pay a little amount of money,
like say ten dollars, twenty dollars, and when you reach
two thousand dollars you get the rest of the year
(31:07):
for free. And that also includes your medications. So, you know,
because everybody to sort of you know, to have the
same starting point and have the same possibilities in life.
And I think if they have that over there in
the United States, I don't, you know, I think it's
kind of change, you know, I'm not saying that, Okay,
the United States needs to become like Norway because there
(31:29):
we change right wrong here, yeah, and definitely and now
with you know, if I say this, I would never
enter the United States. But I don't care. But with
Donald Trump and everything he's doing over there is mind
boggling to off in Europe and in an Avia where
I live, and every god, I just want to say,
(31:51):
we see you, and we hear you, and we support
you because they're crazy what is going on? See No, no,
we got you back.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Thank you, because uh, like I remember, you know, it
was in projects twenty twenty five, it was laid out
there that he was, you know, going to execute everyone
remaining on federal death row, you know by unfortunately a
commute their sentences. You know, we still you know, Billy Allen,
you know putting that out there. We still need to
(32:27):
uh raise money for him to uh get his uh attorney.
But still, uh yeah, I just, uh like you said,
every day it's something. It's I understand why with some
other countries it's mind boggling. It's mind boggling to us
who uh didn't vote for them, who who kept trying
(32:48):
to warn people And we're still over here going every day.
It's something and it's it's only April.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Yeah April. We will be in December.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
We don't know.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
But you will always have a safe place in my
house in Norway, Sarah. I thank you, thank you, promise,
thank you. But you know, you know, something, something needs
to be done with him, because you know it's the
way he's running that country. And even his mother said,
I really hope he'll never go into politics, you know,
(33:26):
and as a politician myself here in Norway, you know,
I'm just like, what did he say? Really, yes you will, yeah,
he will be like like towards Shina. Now he's like, yeah,
I have the cards. Well China made the cards, So okay,
what is your next argument? Come on? And everything he
does with women, you know, and he's not much up
(33:49):
to the states about the abortions. You know, I'm not
saying that abortions is you know, some kind of bird control,
because it's not, but you know it's but it's the
woman's body. It's her fucking show if she wants to
have an abortion or not, if you know, if she
was raised or the birth control failed her, because that
(34:09):
do happen, you know, though, no abortion is healthcare it is.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
And I was talking to Timothy yesterday. How you know
they're talking about in certain states so giving the death
penalty to women who get an abortion, and Timothy but
like that doesn't make sense, and I'm like, I know.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
No, it doesn't make sense, Karen nor Way. You can
get abortion for free, but not after week twelve of
the pregnancy. Well, actually I do think they changed a
lot to eighteen now or they're talking about it, but
you can also yeah, yeah, actually it's the week eighteen,
but they wait until week five to make sure everything
(34:54):
is gone before they give you an abortion. But you know,
it's not an easy choice to have an abortion. I
never had an abortion myself, but I know, for you know,
from working in healthcare, I know it's never an easy
choice for a woman to have an abortion. And I mean,
no uterus, no fucking opinions exactly. Sorry, that's it, yeah,
(35:18):
really free spoken, That is how we do it in
normally we're really direct.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah. I like that, but also I ask one, you know, Okay,
so when it comes to your podcast, where can we
find it again?
Speaker 4 (35:37):
On Spotify? It's called Echoes of Innocence. The first season
is called Three Decades behind bars, so that's the easiest
way to find it. And you know, as as mentioned
that is on Breath Bogo's case and interviews with him
and stuff like that. So yeah, it's called Echoes of Innocence.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
And how else can we support you your work what
you do because you really like me, You're very passionate
you do, and you do so much good work. I've
admired your work for so long, So how else can
we support you? And it'll just follow along with you,
well you can.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
You know, I'm working solo. I'm not you know, in
any organization for this moment, but I have an Instagram
page called Personal Life Matters the podcast and know from
the petition and also you know, my email address is
at my Instagram accounts LinkedIn bio. If you have if
you have knowledge about a case that deserves attention, or
(36:43):
if you have any questions on how to help. I
actually have an episode that is also coming out in
season three on how you can help. You know, being
an activist is just do it, you know, it's you
know exactly what you're finding petitions, it's contacting the government,
is you know, contact people on the road, be a
support to them, you know, help them with stuff like
(37:04):
like it was something going on with the tablets. They
were checking it. There was a guy from another person.
He was an asshole. So I contacted the warden and said, hey,
listen some of these tablets and I named different inmates
and told them they are really taking care of their tablets,
but it's something wrong with them, please don't take them away.
And the warden made sure that didn't happen. So the
(37:26):
guards there, the sergeants was coming up to those people
and say, hey, Maddie contacted us. There's a human right
activist and she was worried about your tablets. So I
see that. You know, it does work because people are like, yeah,
but what are you doing? Well, what are you exactly
doing as an activist? You know, it's like you are supporting,
Like I'm donating two inmates so they can buy some
(37:52):
better food in the canteen. And sometimes I donate to
Definitely Action. You can go to Definitely Action. Love them play,
Yeah me too. They they are amazing. Actually, in my
podcast the season what's the season one?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Season one? I think I did an interview with the
Abraham Bunawet from their Only Action about their work and
stuff like that. So they do an amazing job. But
they are a graduate organization, so they need donations. So
if you have even one dollar or five hundred dollars,
it doesn't matter because every dollar counts. They need it
(38:29):
so they can go around with these vijas over all
over the country, well your country, to you know, protests
and stuff like that. So yeah, yeah, so you if
people want to reach out, they can contact me on.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Instagram great in as a description putting the petition as
well as the penalty actions information. I support them as well.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
Maddie.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Thank you so much for coming on. Definitely have you
back on in the future with thank you updates and
as well as updates with your podcast. And keep spreading
that word.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Zoon me afraid it inside becare foodstacke, not every light
is kind and cat you baby, don't let a very
nice back. Keep it close to your house. I love
the Preshion's kinda shave you crazy cause your right to
the manes in the morning. It's all kind of man
(39:29):
is joll me afraid itside becare foodstackes, not every lad.
And that's the wrap for today. Thank you so much
for tuning in.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
If you haven't already.
Speaker 6 (39:40):
Please click that follow button so you can get updates
for new episodes and if you'd like to get more
updates about the people we've not only featured on this podcast,
but also updates about other cases as well as other
ways to fight against this injustice system. Please follow me
on social media Instagram, take Time, and blue Sky under
(40:01):
the same user name.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
It's their only. I T S S A R A
h O N l Y. It's their only. I also
have my own five oh one c three nonprofit, Voiceless
behind Bars. That's Voiceless behind bars dot org. And while
I run and own that nonprofit, this podcast, while it
has the same name, because we stand for the same thing,
(40:26):
against the Rompel convictions and we stand against this injustice system.
This podcast is one and owned by the wonderful Prison.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Audio, so one be transparent about that one. So again,
thank you for tuning in.
Speaker 5 (40:41):
Let's continue to make change happen together.
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