Kevin Billingsley: When The State Erases Your Identity & Dignity

In this emotional and intense episode of Voiceless Behind Bars, host Sarah DeArmond sits down with Kevin Billingsley (also known as Kevin Rodgers), a man who has spent decades behind bars for a crime he says he didn’t commit — and who has had his very name taken away by the system.

Kevin opens up about:
His wrongful conviction
The psychological toll of Belmont Correctional Institution
How his birth name was stripped from him
The years-long stagnation of his case at the Ohio Innocence Project
His plea to Governor Mike DeWine for clemency and dignity

Sarah reminds listeners that it's okay to ask questions, to doubt, to think critically — but to always do so with respect and empathy.

✊ How You Can Help Kevin:
📞 Call the Ohio Innocence Project
📍 Ask them to move forward on Kevin’s case (Case #D9906905)
📱 513-556-6805
📧 Email Governor Mike DeWine
📍 Request a pardon for Kevin Rodgers (Case #D9906905), and demand that he be given back his legal name: Kevin Billingsley
🔗 governor.ohio.gov
📝 Sign & Share Kevin’s Petition:
📌 Free Kevin Billingsley – Change.org
📰 Email Gongwer News Service
📍 Speak out about the inhumane conditions at Belmont Correctional Institution
🔗 gongwer-oh.com
🔗 Got Questions for Kevin?

Reach out to Sarah directly:
📧 [e-mail]
📸 TikTok/Instagram: @itssarahonly

A man without his name. A man without his freedom.
But never without his voice.
🎙️ Voiceless Behind Bars — where the truth speaks, even from a cage.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Voiceles Behind Bars. I'm your host, Sarah Dearmund.
It's no secret that wrongful convictions happen all over the world,
but sadly, America's number one when it comes to the
most wrongful incarcerations, and that's not a good thing to
be number one at. However, here on this podcast, we

(00:25):
aim to give the mic to the wrongfully convicted, so
everyone can hear from their mouth what happened in their cases,
what went wrong, and hopefully together we can spread the word,
say their names, and give them the justice that's been
long overdue. Despite what people say, change is possible, but

(00:49):
none of us can do it alone. We need each other.
Change start with us. And while it's not easy, it
is definitely worth it. And again it is possible. Plus
the easy rouse boring anyway, So ready to make history.
This is Voiceless Fine Bars.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Zomby afraid of inside, be care foodstacks, not every light's gone,
and gut your baby. Don't let a y nice big
keep it close to your heart. I love the pressures.
Kind of job you crazy because your to the madness
in the morning. It's all kind of then it's Jon

(01:34):
be afraid of side, be care Foroodstacke, not every lad
is gone, and guide you.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna say a highlight
Peter Pan for real life, be living out my dreams.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm waking up percent a four whole risk coming.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
Welcome to Voyce of Behind Bars. A week half back
on the show. My friend Kevin Billingslee. It has been
all a while, so let's reintroduce something. Hey, Kevin, do
you mind introducing everybody? Introducing yourself to everybody.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Hey, y'all, it's Kevin. It's me, Kevin Billy. You might
have seen me on here maybe some months ago. Things
kind of went rampant for a while, i'll due to
my stress, rebels and things that's going on with me
in this place. But as.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
We also wanted to write, everybody, you're still trying to
get your name changed back to what it is because
they all took your name away, your whole identity. Can
you walk us through a little bit of that?

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah? So, well, we was last left off that I
was at Mansfield. I was trying to get my identity
back and some unknown sources had me, I guess crashed
on by some other inmates, which led me led to
me being a hospital lives, my job being broken, my
face being broken, and as of right now, I'm just

(03:05):
writing everything up and still going through the processes of
fouling a civil complaint. But from what it looks like,
you know, like, from what it looks like, don't nobody
really want to help me with the name change thing.
They all know that my name is Kevin Billingsley. They
know that my social Security number is not what it

(03:26):
is because they currently changed it.

Speaker 4 (03:30):
Because they changed your name to Kevin Rodgers. That's not
your name, and they changed security number. And they did
that back when they first trusted you, didn't.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
They they did. They named me Kevin Rodgers, a false
lass name with a false social Security number. But due
to me writing people up and fouling informal complaints against
people in the institution, they wind up calling, uh, the
bm B, and the BMB verified that there was no

(04:00):
such person by the name of Kevin Rodgers with that
social security number. But when you look under my real
last name, which is Billingsley, and the social Security number
that they just gave me back then, it says that
I'm either missing or deceased, I guess, But yeah, they
changed my social Security number.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
So okay, okay, lately, well, to say a lot has
been going on has been understatement. But what's up?

Speaker 5 (04:31):
First?

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Two people? What's been going on with the Answers Project?

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Well, the Nocence Project. I've been going through a lot
with them. They've been back and forth, you know, trying
to help. But yeah, Ohio, Cincinnati. But here was just recently,
you know, my contact with the Nocence Project had been
stopped because the institution and GTL had me blocked from

(04:59):
calling the Innocence Project. The Innocence Project came up with
another number, which is a white listed number for me
to call and for my phone calls to be not recorded.
But however, I guess the system didn't or didn't want
to allow this, so I was just blocked from calling
the Innocence Project for maybe like four or five months,

(05:20):
and maybe here like in the last past couple of weeks,
I've been contacting them by regular phone in which they've
been trying to call the institution and or saying that
they will do everything they need to do to get
the block removed. But the block has never been removed
and it's still blocked to this current day, even though

(05:43):
I talked to Robbie Webb in Madison, Zent from the
Innocence Project. Those are my two students, and they had
told me that they were gonna call up here and
try to have the block removed and do an email
or whatever. But the case matters are verified to mean
that they did call. But however they did not leave

(06:04):
any information.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Okay, so I guess the best thing we can do
is to call off the Ohilans Project ask them to
get them to remove the block, you know, just to
call up what prison are you at again?

Speaker 3 (06:22):
I'm in institution.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
Yeah, so call get them for get uh prescial facility
to remove the block. What else can we call the
Essence Project Ohio insits project and make sure everybody please
be polite, don't harass anyone. But just need to add
that in. But but yeah, what else can we request

(06:47):
of them? On your behalf?

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Well, there was there were a lot of things that
I would like to request from the Innocence Project, and
in question, one of the things that on my map.

Speaker 5 (07:00):
Is the DNA.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Like back when my case got started, the prosecutors in
the case, which was Judas Mullen, Mike Bergenhausen and the
head prosecutor Michael Allen. They stood there in the courtroom
and however, blamed me for this crime. And they had
a set of clothing which was a black T shirt
and green and a pair of green shorts which the

(07:23):
prosecutor said was nine. The clothing had DNA evidence from
both victims on the clothing and someone's DNA on the
inside of the clothing, which if these clothes could have
been tested or would have been tested, this would have
proved my innocence because it would have shown that my
body had never been in those clothes. Maybe two or

(07:44):
three years ago, the Innocence Project went to the police
department and found the clothing. And however, I have done
DNA requests for those clothing, clothing items to be item azed,
for DNA or DNA to be took or taken from
these clothes, and no one has done it. The only

(08:04):
thing I've just recently gotten from one of my students'
past students at the Innocence Project was that if they
test the clothing and they come back as inconclusive, then
the climb and the clothing could still be labeled mine.
But however, who knows who they could be labeled to
If they if they were tested. You know what if

(08:26):
they were tested years ago when they were supposed to
be tested, then the DNA evidence inside the clothing would
have never died and I would have never spent all
this time in prison.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
Right, So what they need to do is just a
test the DNA, I mean, just proved that you didn't
do it. You know, the DNA. DNA is nice, like
keep telling everyone DNA doesn't lie. They were too test
about it would prove you didn't do it. I mean,
what's there gonna argue?

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Right? I thought, like, you know, coming through a court
or a judicial system or a court room when you
were charged with a major crime, that anytime they did
have DNA evidence like that, it was supposed to be
used in court proceedings, which it was, but it was
used wrongfully. No one ever took my DNA semple toward

(09:18):
these clothing. No one ever did that. They didn't know
who's the cloth, who the clothing belonged to, and to
this day, no one knows.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yes, go ahead, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh No, all I was gonna say is all I
can state that the clothing items are not mine, has
never been on my body. And if those clothing items
were to be tested, then maybe they can find a
real person behind this crime. Yep.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
And like you wouldn't willingly submit your DNA if you
get it, No, not at all.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
In fact, when the Insist Project came to me back
in twenty nineteen and told me that they had clothing
in the visiting room, I tried to weed out all
the stop sticks and use some DNA right there on
the scene, Like, like, why while they were there visiting me.
What I was gonna do was give them hair and

(10:15):
politely scratch myself maybe with a staple and David with
some toilet paper and give it to them in the
plastic bag.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
But yeah, whatever you could do immediately.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Immediately, but we couldn't do it that way. So yeah,
that kind of went out the window.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
Probably because they need specific location for it. But I
understand why. Immediately, Hey, here's here's my hair, whatever you need,
I wouldn't done the certain things, indeed.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
I would have like indeed, but like I'm just you know,
I'm just wishing that the Innocence Project, like I know
they're helping a lot of people, you know, I know
they are. I know my case is not the most
important case in the world. But however it is they
told me and other advocates in the past that I

(11:03):
was on their priority list. And you know, if I'm
on your priority list, this is back in twenty nineteen,
it's been twenty twenty five. Right now, this is like
six seven years ago almost, you know, like, where's the priority?
I just want to go free. I just want to
go home.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
You know, well, aren't you looking at a specific attorney?
And remember, just by detail distress this. Whenever we call anyone,
even if it's a complaint, you get further with kindness
than with being argumentative. Especially we don't encourage harassment, you know,

(11:40):
So I just I don't believe any of my listeners
do that. Just in case, you know, you gotta just
put up that from the reminder. But you are looking
at a specific attorney because you tell us about that.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
I am looking at a specific attorney and hopefully that
I can get them to come out and take my case.
I'm also on my way to trying to work with
the the Martrooms project. Yeah, yeah, as well.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
They're making articles and I believe you know, if we
all contacted them politely ask them to run an article,
especially you know, regarding this whole case, like you know,
not this whole case, but just the fact that they
have erased your identity, that all, not just rock convic

(12:40):
you race your identity, have you declared deceased or are
just basically you don't exist anymore? That right there will
grab their attention. Yeah, yeah, not that it should have
ever come to this, but just saying we're gonna work
with what we have.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Right, I mean, that's all we can do at the
moment is work with what we have. And I'm appreciative
of the help. You know, everybody calling, everybody doing everything
they can to help is greatly appreciated.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
I'll never get over off they're still saying, a bunch
of your girlfriends are calling complaining. It's like those are advocates.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
What was crazy? Like they I was living when Mansfield
did that, Like I was, like I was so messed
up by that, Like a case manager could really come
out and tell all the advocates that was called in
the prison to try to help me that like they
were my own independent girlfriends and that wasn't right, you

(13:46):
know what I mean, And they gave up all this
misinformation and lives for nothing, all because people were calling
to excuse me to try to help me.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Well, that's what you know that when you're doing some right,
we're near rustling feathers, because that's happened to me. Like
when I've advocated for you for others, kimmosy, people are like,
oh my gosh, it must be their girlfriend and like, no, no,
I'm your legal advocate. But that's when you know you're
doing something right. You're rustling feathers.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
So you know when you ruffle, When you ruffle enough feathers,
you know, you start getting higher entities in different places
to come forth and try to stop everything that's going on.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
Oh yeah, because they're like, I don't want this commotion
to continue. We want to because you can make good commotions,
you can do it in a good way, which is
what we've been doing. And and people are gonna say, look,
we don't want to continue, especially when politicians realize it
could affect them getting re elected because the czar tax

(14:52):
dollars and they so when they find out, yeah, this
could affect me getting re elected. Yeah, they start paying
attention and they go, we need to fall through on
doing the right things make the public or constituents happy,
you know, the taxpayers and that's just something that we
need to also keep in mind because at even of

(15:13):
the day, I'm they work for us, And that's putting
it bluntly.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, that's that's true.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
You know.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's like speaking of tax dollars and like taxpayers, it's
some other things that I've been discovering within the walls
of institution. And it's and it's starting with programming with
people in the penal system, like you know, to state
like you know, like just a lot of drugs in
this place period. And what I what I have found

(15:47):
that these people are using federal tax dollars and federal
leans against inmates to give inmates false programming to have
them find their names on a sheet of paper so
that sheet of paper can be turned in and that
taxpayer goes tax payer dollars, and that federal funding can
be collected by penal institutions. And it's on individual constituents. Constituents,

(16:13):
you know what I mean, Like we don't get nothing
in this place. There is no help in here for us. Yeah.
All the federal tax dollars and the tax money that
these people are getting, what are they doing with it? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Because they're they're lying when they're saying, Oh, they're re
seeing this help they're receiving you know, these classes.

Speaker 5 (16:33):
No you're not.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
So where's this money going that they're saying, is going
to help with the recidivism rate, to help with the
what to help with, you know, like any kind of
you know, ged programming, to help with any kind of
TRAU based therapy, anything like that. Where's that money.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Where? And that's the main thing. Where was the money going?
Because the money goes from from from from taxpayers wallets
and post book to the penal institution. I got guys here,
you know who we've been put in program to sign
off phone under our names, to sign off on our names,
just so they can receive this funding. Exactly.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
One of the guys program means I just mentioned this
programs you trying to call him doing.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Exactly? They thrown that all. And one of the guys
that I got here that's been caught up in this
program along with myself, is if I could put him
on the phone, Sarah, would that be okay? Yeah, go ahead, okay, okay,
here he is to go ahead, And because I'm on
the podcast right now, I want you to just say

(17:46):
your name and produce yourselves to the people.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Hello, my name is King Hey doll bit, I am hi.
I am an inmate at the E C I in
Belmont County. My prison numbers on eight five three five.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
And can you tell us about these programs that you've
been told to sign off on that don't exist.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
One of the things that we were just talking about, Donovan,
was the AA program in the NA program down here
in which we all have to go through in order
to get off Purples, because you know what I mean, like,
what they have done is stuck us in a program
to where we have to follow specific rules like stay
in our bunk area, we can't go to the store

(18:31):
except every month, and we're placing a certain type of
clothing to where we stand out from everybody. Our right
is being violated from the first to the fifth, sixth,
eighth and all that, the fourteenth Amendment. Everything is being
violated because of the federal tax dollars that these people
are trying to receive. Just here recently, like there's more

(18:52):
than five hundred plus inmates that's on this program. It's
called the Purpose program. It's Rule thirty nine. So whenever
you get caught with any anything, this is what they do.
They put you in these clothings for six months, and
if you catch any other ticket, they extend this by
thirty days. But in order to get off of this program,

(19:13):
you have to go to an INN or a AA
meeting and sign your name upon a list of papers
with a group of inmates. So we can all be
taking off purples. But the thing that I don't understand
is the fact that they saying they're catching everybody with drugs. Okay,
everybody with these little squares of paper or some paper.
They might shake your bunk area down and find like

(19:35):
a torn piece of paper, and what they'll do is
send it up to the investigation office and the investigator
will write a ticket on you and say that he
tested this paper and it comes back as a liquid
cannabinoid substance, in which if you know, you can't test
K two nowhere unless you got a sixty five thousand
dollars test or use spinal type of person. So what

(19:57):
they're doing in this institution is using a fake rule
in a fake program to receeve federal taxpayers dollars. And
back to Donovan King, he had just got out of
segregation because they fell on his bed some toilet paper,
and I'll let him tell you about that. He shuts
about it, right, So about.

Speaker 5 (20:20):
We'll rewind a little bit.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
I got out of the hole for protesting the Purples,
all right, because they give us two outfits all right
for a week, all right, and we can only get
our laundry washed one time. Well, my sergeant came up,
and now since I'm in Purples, I'm not allowed to
own commissary. Well if I want my laundry done more

(20:45):
than one time a week, because I only get two outfits,
I got to pay the laundry got So I got
a suit laying on my bed and he comes and
takes it, and I was like, well, what are we
gonna do about this?

Speaker 5 (20:56):
He's like, what do you mean? I said, my laundry
only gets done once for free. Took my payment method
to pay the laundry to get my clothes done. So
I took my shirt off and throw it on the
floor and told him to wash it himself. And he
sent me to the hole. And then I get out
of the hole and I go to make a cup

(21:18):
of coffee, but I use the hot water and it's
called one ninety and it's a faucet the water comes
out of one hundred and ninety degrees fahrenheit, And since
I'm in purples, I have no rights to use this
hot water for anything that I like at all. I
guess I didn't know this. It ain't published. So I
go and get a cup of hot water, and the

(21:39):
CEO starts flipping out. I'm like, why are you He's like,
you're not allowed to use that. You're on restrictions. You're
on Roll thirty nine's this purple program. I'm like, man,
what the hell? So I get a ticket, they call
me a riv and then they find me guilty on it,
all right. So then they find me guilty on it,
and then they they throw out the other ticket of

(22:03):
the contra band because I was in possession of a soup,
all right. So then my sergeant feels some type of
way about it, and he puts me right up front,
right in front of the CEOs on observation rack. Remind you,
I ran the janitorial program at Belmont. I trained other janitors.
I look good on paper. He plus, he pulls me

(22:26):
right up front. He puts me right up front, all right.
They come in about it's literally the next it's it's
my first night out of the hole. They come up.
It's about four CEOs and I'm sleeping in my bed.
They're like, king, we need you to get up, and
I'm like why. They're like, we're gonna shake your area down.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Now.

Speaker 5 (22:44):
I had a I roll a toilet paper that was
already been used. You know what I mean. It's the
blues broken on it, so you can you it's an
active It will unroll if it falls. You get what
I'm talking about. It's still it's not blue no more. Right.
So the next your little piece of toilet paper that
was hanging off of it, I ripped off of it.

(23:05):
It's like two squares of toilet paper and I sat
it besides the toilet paper roll. And they come and
shake me down and I'm like, they get me out
of my rack and they're like, what's this? Like, that's
the roll of toilet paper where two squares of toilet paper.
They sent it down to the investigator's office. Literally, this

(23:25):
ain't even this ain't even seven hours later. This happened
on This happened, but this is about two weeks ago.
It ain't even seven hours later. I get I get
a ticket that said my roll of toilet paper tested
positive for synthetic cannabinoide. Yeah, and and and that's what's
going on here. This is the way that these people

(23:48):
are using inmates to steal tech peers dollars in federal funding.
So well, I'm in the hole and King is in
the hole at the same time. And we would go
on to r I b r IB called a rules
Infraction Board, and that's where you go hear your ticket
and they make a decision as to you know, your
punishment of what you're gonna get. So I see the investigator,

(24:08):
which is Lieutenant Stack. So I called him to the
door and I asked him, I'm like, sir, don't you
kind of find an ironic that I'm down here, He's
down here, everybody is down here. You got people riding
in from other institutions with legal work, and these people
are finding legal work, legal mal or, child support, legal
male and testing it and it's coming back as drugs.

(24:31):
So I tell him, like, you don't find it ironic
that everything you test, you find it come it comes
back as drugs. He tells me, well, mister Rogers, looks
I have nothing to do with this currently O DRC
sends me the test kits. I know the test kits
are no good because I myself and another officers conversation

(24:52):
a paint chip off the wall with a and put
it on a test kit with some top water, and
it came back positive for liquid cocaine. He then he
said he took the same paint chip and retested it
and it tested positive for synthetic cannabinoid. Now you tell
me what's wrong with this.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
So their whole test kit that they're getting from old
UFC or and or the Highway State Patrol is faulty.
These tests they know are only twenty percent accurate. But
once you test something on this test, it's gonna come
back as something. So that way they gives them leadway
to put you in a purple suit, put you on restrictions,

(25:29):
violate all your constitutional rights, and just put you on
your book and say fuck you, plus seven months you know,
and extended want.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
Anytime they want, for using hot water, for having a suit,
for doing anything. I mean, if if you forget to
put on your your purple T shirt and walk to
the restroom, they can tell you your and violation because
you don't have your purple T shirt on.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
And that's not right, that's not right, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
That's just feeling.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
You know, you have thousands of inmates across Ohio that
incarcerated for all kinds of crimes, stealing inbeztlment, murdered, you know.
But these people are doing the same thing and they
and they finding it will over okay to do it.
They finding it okay to do it, you know what

(26:20):
I mean. Like old r I S and its constituents
and all of its employees are acting in a manner
that egregious and met up in a lot of ways.
It is, you know what I mean. But the first
time we speak out on this, like I just had
an r IV ticket because I have legal work in
my bed, Like I'm constantly fixing my legal work. I'm

(26:43):
constantly doing paperwork. So I got papers in my bed.
So I guess the officer came to my right and
shook me and my cellies down, but he found a
piece of paper in my bed, wrote me up for
having a piece of drugs in my bed. Start it
down to the investigator, and I was written a ticket
by the investor together to say that I had kind
of annoyed substances and or drugs unauthorized possession of drugs.

(27:06):
So I had to go to RIB for that. When
I got down there, I told the RIB panel as
well as it's other people what were said by Lieutenant Stack.
They took it as if I was lying, so I
flipped out. They kicked me out of RIB. But here
it is this Thursday. They just called me back and
told me that they're calling me back into RIB because

(27:27):
Donovan King was in the hole and he had made
a statement to say that he had heard Lieutenant Stack
say what he said to me in the RIB meeting.
They asked me was it true? And I told him,
in fact, yes it was true. And however they threw up.
They still found me guilty, but they gave me a
lighter punishment. I'm still punished though, even though you know

(27:49):
your test kits are Falsey, you're stealing moneys from everybody,
all taxpayers, all the federal institutions. And this is okay
with these people, right, this is okay.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
So not only do we have these false programs that
they talk are talking about, but they're also you know,
using using our tax dollars, our federal tax dollars.

Speaker 5 (28:16):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
We're all to say, oh, well, you need drugs because
we found this sheet of paper, you know, and putting
you punishment. Oh my gosh, all this information. I'm I
feel like my eyes are spiraling. But this is good
to get this out there, it is.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
It's good to get it out there, you know. Like
I said, it's nothing to I mean, it's something to
grip over, but it's nothing to call the harass the
institution about what we would like people to call and
ask about this purpose program? Why do they have so
many inmates on purpose? Why is it that everything you
test comes back to positive for drugs and never negative

(28:56):
for anything? Like everybody here, like I can't go to
the door. They're making me pay six dollars. They're extorting
me for six dollars of a twelve dollars. Stay paid
every time I go and take a urinary a urinary test,
because this is what they do. They steal money. They
take that they each each individual inmate every time we

(29:17):
urinate in a cup. And most of the inmates ain't
done nothing, have done nothing wrong. But no one never
tests positive for the synthetic countable knowing that everybody's saying
they found if everybody's possessing it, nobody has to be
using it. And if someone is using it, then that
means that you can test for it. And if you're
not testing for it, you can't test for it. What

(29:38):
are you doing? You have one minute remaining.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
You're gonna go back.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, I'm gonna call you back, Okay, all right, all right, So.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Love urry we are talking about basically called up the
institu shouldn't say what's going on because yeah, not not
to make a huge deal, but you know what's going
all these off purple Church thing that everybody's being tested
positive for this what was it again this.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Time cannabis synthetic cantan than.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
You, Yeah, because everyone's been tested positive and you can't.
That's very hard to prove anyways, like unless you've got
like a you know, state of the art machine that
they there's no way they can afford. And also they
with this equipment, it's twenty percent accuracy, right, so but
they're going off of that just so yeah, they can

(30:40):
keep you, you know, on this thought so called program
and extort more money out.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Of you exactly exactly. That's what that's what they're doing
to like, you know, everybody, Like I wanted to just
get this out there to just let people know because
while they might be a lot of inmates around her
who's willing to tell these stories because of punishments and
other things that can happen. But I myself, like, I'm

(31:09):
just tired of the rhetorical and all the bullshit. So
I'm putting it out there. You know, no matter the punishment,
no matter what it is that's gonna come my way,
it needs to be told because it's old U R. C.
And and and and and its whole employee system is crooked.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
You know, they will.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
And I've wrote about this two In fact, I've seen
tests where it's come back from positive. Oh I've seen
this myself from all other inmates parents where it's come
back positive when they don't do any drugs, like you too,
they don't do any drugs, but they're keeping him. He's
at the same person you are, right, So you know
it's I told, But test results soon now it's a

(31:52):
false positive. And so I've I've heard about this going on.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Yeah, this is this is this is it mean, it's
substruct but.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
It's it's criminal, it's inhumane.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
It is. But because of all the budget cuts and
all the lost finances, this is the way that they're
coming up with ways to pay their bills and extorting
inmates out of funding so they can, you know what
I mean, I guess fix the institution and align their
own pockets with with with federal tax dollars.

Speaker 4 (32:25):
Well, it's like with our tax source. Though, we want
to see, you know, like what, you all get rehabilitated.
Even if it's like although I think artist countries way
to uh happy with fault slapping inmates, with life in prison,
especially life in prison dout parole, I'm saying, even if
that is a sentence, we still want to see some

(32:49):
type of rehabilitation.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
Because as of right now, the word rehabilitation don't mean anything.

Speaker 4 (32:58):
Oh no, it doesn't exist.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
It's just Ohio Department of Correction. That's it. There is
no rehabilitation here, you know what I mean. And the
rehabilitation part of this is where you know, you get arrested,
you get thrown in this place, and they expect that
you are the person that's supposed to come in here,
even though you know this is a place for you

(33:21):
to come in here and reinvent and reconnect and remake yourself,
but they give you no type of incentives to do
this none. That's one of.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
The reasons why receive isn't raised so high. They don't
they want you to return. It's it's designed to fail.
That's why I say prison abolition, because the system is
designed to fail. You can't fix what was already broken.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
That's right, that's right. You can't fix what was already broken.
And old u s is broken. Yeah, it's very you know,
like the way they you got guys like a couple
of friends that here, they've been here in this in
this prison system for over fifty years. These guys has
done fifty years straight, and yet I see her when

(34:13):
they go to the parole board. The only thing that
happens is that the parole board looks at these people
and go back twelve years, like you might have not
have caught no tickets, no prior conduct for fifteen years,
and then they go back sixteen years and found that
you may have stolen an onion or you may have

(34:33):
had a slice of two of thread and a bag
and they wrote you up for it. And they and
that's what they're giving these guys ten year flops for.
Like the guy there's here that's been locked up for
fifty years, he just went to the parole board here
recently and they gave him I think ten years because
of an old ticket that he might have had, right

(34:56):
like like oldr C. It's just And everything about old
d U S is bad. Old U S just it's nothing.
But I'm over here with my fleeing right here, and
this is the one that's been locked up for fifty years. No,
this is like hold onf kiddy, I'm on the podcast
right now with with with people when I'm talking about

(35:18):
the parole board and the issues with the parole board.
Like here yourself, you've been locked up for fifty years
right when you went to the parole board. Here your
headphones work, you know? Okay, go ahead? Can you can
you hear him? Sarah? Hello, Hello Sarah? How are you

(35:39):
doing good?

Speaker 4 (35:40):
Thank you for talking to me.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yes, ma'am, this this is telling your name mister McDonald. Okay,
sixty eight And how long have you been locked up?
Forty seven years? Forty seven years seventy seven since nineteen
seventy seven. This man has had a break. He hasn't
had nothing. If he'd have had nine parole hearings and

(36:06):
not and not neither one of them has been granted
he's been flopped on each and every last one of them.
I go to board, I go to parole board next
month for the tenth time, and for the tenth time,
he goes to the parole board again next month. And
what you think they're gonna do? I mean, I'm in
re entry programs. I've been doing re entry programs about
a month. I'm thinking the parole board called down here

(36:28):
and told them to put me in re entry programs
and preparing me for the street, and by me being
a veteran, the Veterans Administration came down here and talked
to me and talking about the housing and medicaid and
they're gonna write the parole boarder letter and all this
good stuff. It is. You know, it looked like they

(36:50):
might be trying to get me up out of here, hopefully,
I hope. When you went last went to the parole board,
what was the reason for flopping, you said, the victims
Advocate group something like that. The victims Advocate group was
the reason why I didn't get a parole right, victims family.

(37:11):
A victims advocate group is a group of people who
work with the victims family, and they probably came forth
to say that you shouldn't be parole. But after fifty years,
I mean they.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
Continue, I'm sorry, he wanted.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
To ask you, Sarah. Can the victims Advocate group come
forth and help him get his parole denied after what
forty seven years?

Speaker 4 (37:37):
Yes they can. Unfortunately they ipop. I don't people who
have all done that and not, you know, come back
each year. Yeah, every time they're for parole off to
try and get them denied. So unfortunately that does play
a big factor.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, But like the thing that the thing, the thing
that needs to be seek is the fact that these
people don't look at the time fractures of what a
person's life has been taken for. They don't they don't
care that this man has been locked up. Damn there
fifty years years old, right, yes, he's sixty eight years old,

(38:15):
saying you know, disabled best friends and it's been here
for forty seven years, and like, don't nobody turn to him.
Everybody looks over him. And when this is parole board,
like you know, the victims Advocate people or the parole
board itself finds ways to they find ways to come

(38:37):
in here and deny people, or they find ways to
come in here and ignore the clauses of what they're
supposed to be doing. Like I believe when you go
see the parole board, the parole board is supposed to evaluate,
you know, from day one to right now and then
consider you for release. But what these people that's been
known to do is go in parole board rooms, kick

(38:59):
the inmates out, make jokes, throw food, and then pull
the way back and then turn around and give him
ten years. The parole boards didn't change, and it's say,
three different parole boards on the same hymory. Yeah, he's
seen three different parole boards on the same number. So
like if you if the parole board is supposed to

(39:22):
be a group of people who come back from year
to year's times or you know, six to eight years
from your first parole board day to the next one,
they supposed to be the same people. But it seems
like every week you know they're evaluating DNA, they switch
it up, you know what I mean, So different people

(39:44):
and they got the same appear David first people twenty
years ago ahead. That's and that's bad.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
He's not the same person he was in nineteen seventy seven.
What you're saying, I said, I've.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Seen different the parole board has changed three different times.
And the first parole board gave me a five year flop,
and the same parole board gave me another five years.
Then the parole board switched up. The people person ever changed.
So I'm seeing a new parole board after twenty five years,

(40:19):
and they felt the same way the first parole board felt.
They had the same opinions. I've seen that for fifteen years.
Then it changed up again, and each parole board as
it changed up, that the same feeling. That's the same
parod board that forty five years ago. So that that

(40:39):
that's right. That right there goals to show you if
you got from from year one to year twenty five,
two or three different parole board people. And they all
looking at the climb and read the paperwork instead of
making a personal independent decision about you know, what's going
on on a person's life, they go back on the
paper the same fact. And you know what I mean,

(41:02):
like these people ain't they ain't right at all. There
was no type of rehabilitation in this place.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
So they're not asking any questions like who he is
today versus then how he's changed. They're not asking him
any about.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
Nothing. They're just looking at the crime he did and
make and making and making the decision like from them
all out. Oh damn yeah, man, that's crazy. Man. The
program I hadn't done, twenty different programs, twenty different programs.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
Business, you got a social scream.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
I'm a certified brick mason. I'm a prenancy electory, know
how to do accounting, to do credit avage, leisures and
all that business man you know. Here and here he
is a man that just came in here and education
of hisself and he's still here. Yeah. Uh management, uh

(42:06):
you know as you do. You know what scarce, scarce
he is wanted farcity. Yeah, and here and here we
hear them, thank you, mister McDonald. And here we hear
these words from a man who came in here after
forty seven years, did everything he was supposed to do,
and they still won't let him go, and they still

(42:28):
won't let him go and let him go utilize the
skills that he came in here and look up under
these people's rooms, right, you know, Like and that's one
thing that mostly scared me about all of this, when
I look at people like mister McDonald, and then I
look at my own my own self. I'm like, damn,
you know, will I ever make it out this place?

(42:49):
Where will I have that same story mister McDonald has,
like I don't want to.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
The pro board, you know, makes it next to impossible
for inmates to get out. You've got inmates who are
in there for a nonviolent marijuana charge, and they've been
in there fifty plus years, deny for role every time.
All that's going on here in Alabama. So the proboard, Like,

(43:14):
I'm not doubt playing in Ohio. I'm just saying, I'm
fulebating what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Is that, yeah, yeah, for sure, Like you know, like
these this, this whole this whole thing with this juit,
with prison in jail, it's bad. Like you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
If we're not saying don't punish people, but we're saying,
don't make it impossible for them to rebulicate themselves learn
from their mistakes.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Exactly. You have a person that learned from his mistakes,
has came here and reinvented itself totally, and they still
don't even care about that. You don't care, Like you
know what I mean. All they look at is the
fact that you may have made a mistake or committed
the crime, and that's the only thing they want to
talk about. That's the only thing that they see. They
don't see the business management degrees or any other degrees.

(44:04):
All they see is the wrong things you've done. They
don't know how to evaluate and look at the right thing,
not at all.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
And they're all the work want to put into to
like you said, revolted themselves, make them up. They're not
the same person they were forty threven years ago. But
I can tell you I'm not the same person I
was five years ago or so, so you know, like.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
People change, you know what I mean. So like I
think that, I mean, I understand you have to have
some type of punishment for those who commit clients you do.
You don't have to give forty fifty, sixty, seventy eighty
or one hundred years just to prove a point. You
don't have to do this.

Speaker 4 (44:44):
Now, that's that's that's saying that's too much. That's an understatement.
But I'm, like you said, elevating your point York absolutely correct.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Yeah, you know, like and like like I see it,
like I look at people like mister McDonald here, you
know what I mean, even though he might he may
have committed his crime, he may have done that. But
here it is myself. I'm still sitting in here for
a crime that I've never seen, don't know nothing about.
And it's been twenty five years already, you know, so

(45:13):
I can understand how people get angry, people get frustrated.
You know, things happen, you know what I mean. Like,
here's within my last past month in this place, I've
been so highly stressed out and so going through so
much that I've contemplated suicide. I've contemplated acting out on
a couple of occasions. I even did act out and

(45:35):
laying myself in a hole. And you know, when mental
health comes back there and they see me and they're like,
why are you doing this? And the only thing I
can sell out my mouth is that, like, you know,
don't nobody care about how I feel. Don't nobody care
about me being here for the last past lot of
or twenty five years for nothing? So why should I
care about your rules?

Speaker 4 (45:55):
If you want the incentive to want to change, you
know too, Like you know, let's humanizing, right, you.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Know what I mean, very dehumanizing, Like you know, they
speak about recidivism. But yet still they got me in
this little dumb program with all these other four or
five hundred inmates for some stuff that I haven't even ever, Like,
I haven't never possessed no drugs. You know, maybe in
the past I have, yeah, but like here just recently
since I've been to Beilmar, I haven't done anything wrong.

(46:28):
But here it is, I'm on a whole purpose program
with four or three or four other inmates who may
or may have not done anything. But then this only
makes me look back at my current situation, like, damn,
how many more times am I gonna be blamed for
something that I had nothing to do with? Or how
much more this am I gonna have to take before

(46:49):
somebody just just buckled down and listen to me and
see that I had nothing to do with what they
said that I did.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
And that's why we need help to elevate. His words
is from Donald of other people who came on spoke.
You know, we need this elevated because when I say
we need to change yesterday, but you know I understand,
you know, progress takes time. It's time to up the

(47:18):
echy a little bit, start making some more phone calls,
especially to your local congress people and say, what's going
on with my tax dollars? Why are people in their
forty seven years at yeap when they're clearly not the
same person. I don't I want my tax stars to
go to someone who you know, let's say, start doing
a slap on the rest of people who committed a

(47:39):
violent crime and start releasing more people you know who deserve.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
That's what they need to do. They talk about prison reform,
but they never come to the state prisons of reform anything.
We haven't gotten any Senate bill to eighty eight and
a Sender Bill to eighty eight only clarifies that you
may take a program, and you may be eligible for
eligible for a program that will not one to five

(48:07):
days off of your sentence. Those are considered good days.
But for guys like myself who've been here for over
twenty five or twenty six years, or mister McDonald or
any other guy who has a one two, three four
or the one two or three grand, What I mean
by one two or three grand or four grand is

(48:29):
the numbers like you're like, my number is three nine, two,
five one one. Mister McDonald's maybe one thirty eight two seventeen.
So anybody with the one hundreds or two hundreds or
three hundreds or four hundred grands, we ain't got nothing
coming with a good day. We don't get good days.
We're not ugble for that. And that's unfair.

Speaker 4 (48:49):
No, but that's absolutely unfair, you know. So here it
is again, they're not giving you any incentive to want
to change or anything.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
No, none.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
You know, it was a couple of times where I
even thought about, you know, doing unthinkable things in this place.
But I can't bring myself to do nothing unthinkable here
it is. I'm already stuck in this place for an
unthinkable crime, for something right that I would have never
I would have never took and taken nobody's life ever,

(49:22):
you know what I mean. But I'm sitting here every
day and I have to ask myself the same question
every day, and it's beginning to become more hurtful, and
I'm beginning to go through a lot more because like,
I want my life back, I want to come home,
I want to be able to enjoy it. You know,
I got a lot of people like including yourself, Grills,

(49:44):
other people you know, just helping with the case that
wants me to come home Jeannette. You know, but like
with these people standing in the way and refusing to
do anything like O. D C. They know they have
me here out of jerr addiction under the wrong name
and wrong socialist. Yeah, they change they journey number, but

(50:04):
they won't change my name because that comes with merely
sending me back to court. And we certain find my
whole case from the beginning, and they don't want to
do that because they don't want to one pay for
all of the ship that they've been through, the collected
evidence all over again. And number two, this is this
is twenty five years later versus nineteen ninety nine. Ain't

(50:28):
nobody gonna believe your story versus now to the end.
No one is gonna be.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
Wak That's why we gotta element the more people who
say I believe the same better, the more they will listen.
They have been listening, and we just gotta get more
people say I believe them, because I certainly do. I've
seen the evidence. I can have them a copy of
your birth certificate that I know you want copy up

(50:53):
as well. They did change your name. I've seen the evidence.
I encourage you all look up at stakes. I pleased
him your own research, because he's from the truth.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
And my case number is be nine nine O six
nine O five. There are so many things that like
you know what I mean, that's wrong with my case.
There may be some things out there that you will
not find. Like I had just recently did a state
habitas corpus and included the facts of me being in Mansfield,
me being hit in Man's field by inmate for higher

(51:28):
authority guards or whoever the people were. That's something inmate
to harm me, you know.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Video, Yeah, you know what I mean, Like this is
the same thing. I included all of this in my
in my state Hay, and here it is the judge.
He released me, but then turned around and took the
release dates back and gave the judge seven days to
answer my motion. And that seven days turn into no
days and I just got denied. Like my my state

(52:00):
they got thrown out. I got denied. Like if you
look at my state Havi's corpus, or if someone can
find it online, then you know it's it's it's it's crucial.
But I'm gonna give the number to my state Hay's corpus.
But it's so well hidden that I don't think no
one can see it. I don't think I don't think
no one can look nowhere on any type of lost

(52:24):
sight to get to this Haley's corpus because they want
to hear it. And the the the case number for
this has corpus is twoenty twenty three dash c B
dash five three eighths in. And this case comes up

(52:47):
as McConaughey versus Rogers. This is the McConnaughey was the tennosee.
McConnaughey was the Wharton down at Mansfield Correctional Institution. And
the judge will judge Philip's name off. He was the
one that you know, gave the date for me to

(53:08):
hear a case and to schedule a decision for ninth
for December nineteenth, twenty twenty three, and like seven days
prior to this date I got nothing.

Speaker 5 (53:19):
But you know what I mean, a denial.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
My case wasn't heard, even though like I had all
my facts in line, I had all of everything, all
my facts I was telling. I'm telling the truth about everything.
Everything that I'm telling the truth about. They seem to
have he or made up false lives or false things
about like saying, for instance, I didn't pay for the

(53:43):
havior of corpus. If I didn't pay for it, how
did it get out of the mail? You know what
I mean? They use small things like that to try
to deny me and try to hide what I was
going or hide what I'm going through, which is the truth.
And I don't feel that that's right.

Speaker 5 (53:59):
No, it's not.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
Oh absolutely not.

Speaker 5 (54:03):
You know, well man, this is okay.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
Well when it comes to your case, like I said,
got to elevate it because not only that, but these
other cases, the fact that the pearl Board, just like
these PA system designed to fail, designed to keep you
in prison. And it blows my mind. They don't want
to pay for all this, you know, to test the
evidence all that, But they're willing to pay for quote

(54:29):
quote that they know is faulty. There. You know, there's
other ways that they're making money, all dishonestly, instead of
wanting to spend the money the right way, the honest way,
I think, and that would be a much better use
of my tax dollars. I think everyone else would agree.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
For sure. You know, one of one of one of
their main extra resources of income is taken non profitable resellable,
like you got some items like not for resale on them,
like it's free, you know what I mean. It's like
little toothpases and toothbrushes and soaps that they're supposed to

(55:10):
supply energy inmates with for free. This is the stuff
that they're turning around and charging us for now.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
Oh yeah, they charge you way for that.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Yeah, you know what I mean, And that's not right.
You know what I mean. If I'm if I already
owe the court system, a federal court for federal filing
fees over one thousand dollars, then I got the institution
coming at me for false urinary test cups. That's another
six dollars, and I'm only getting twelve dollars worth, Like

(55:43):
I'm only left with four or five dollars at the
end of the month. And it takes more than four
or five dollars to live in this place, for sure. Yes,
you know, like they look for ways to invent and
make their own rules, and once those rules are established,

(56:04):
that's how they get their money from it. Oh, DUSA
has come from, Go ahead.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
Oh no, I went here. Where do yers come from?

Speaker 3 (56:15):
I was gonna say, Oh, USC has turned from Like
I came here in nineteen ninety eight, and it was
it was good back then, you know what I mean.
We were getting fed, clothes, taking care of They had
an irony fund for inmates to fix like nets and
basketball hoops or anything that an inmate may have needed
that was inmate related that needed even federal or funding

(56:39):
for programs. It came out of an iron fund. These
people don't even have an I N fund no more,
they don't have none of that type of all that's
gone gone because of all the light the budget cuts
from like two thousand and five, you know what I
mean on up to today today's date like this, this

(57:00):
institution is failing bad mhm.

Speaker 4 (57:08):
So I mean, I want to thank you everybody else
for getting on here because that's very brave. I know
they won't like it, but just again, thank you. And
we're gonna keep following up. And you know you and
I are gonna keep in touching. Absolutely, that's the guarantee.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
See, yeah, for sure, Like the next time I want
to try to enjoy, uh, get missing that on here
so I can talk to her. And like other people
from the human rights we saw a center like greg
and you know what I mean, other people. You know,
I want to I want to be asked questions, you
know what I mean, Any questions that anyone may have

(57:48):
about this. You know, you can ask Seah and on
our next interview or podcast that can ask me. And
I'm gonna give it to you Live and the Living colors.
I'm gonna tee the truth.

Speaker 4 (57:59):
That's something good. I'd like that. If you couldn't have
any questions for Kevin his case, what's going on at
the prison, send them my way. You got my social
media handles in the description of this podcast, and Kevin
will be happy to answer them. I'm happy to answer
them any questions as well. Yeah, so, and Kevin, thank you,
thank you again. Is there anything else you wanted to

(58:21):
say to everyone.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
Yeah, I just wanted to tell everyone, thank you, thank
you for listening, Thank you for standing behind me, like
you know me, if you have one minute remain, I
don't like that. Me as well as inmates around the
state of Ohio, we greatly appreciate the podcasts and people
listening to our stories and hearing us out and giving
us a place to comfort and bring truths to life.

(58:47):
You know, so, I gratefully thank everybody, and I want
to encourage everybody to call the institution and figure out
what's going on, not only purples. Everything go ahead, Sarah,
I'm just.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Saying we get on, well, get real. Have you back
on against phone and everybody, please keep fighting, keep spreading
that word Zone.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Me afraid of inside, be care foodstacks. Not every light
is kind and cat you baby, don't let a very
nice back keep you close.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
To your house.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
I love the preshion's kindahave you crazy because your right
to the badness in the morning. It's all kind events,
Jon me afraid of inside becare foodstackes, not every lad.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
And that's a wrap for today. Thank you so much
for tuning in.

Speaker 6 (59:38):
If you haven't already, please click that follow button so
you can get updates for new episodes and if you'd
like to get more updates about the people we've not
only featured on this podcast, but also updates about other
cases as well as other ways to fight against this
injustice system. Please follow me on social media Instagram, TikTok

(59:59):
and blue Side under the same user name. It's their only.
I T S S A R A H O N
L Y It's their only. I also have my own
five oh one C three nonprofit Voiceless behind Bars. That's
Voiceless behind bars dot org. And while I run and
own that nonprofit, this podcast, while it has the same name,

(01:00:23):
because we stand for the same thing, against rompl convictions
and we stand against this injustice system, this podcast is
one and owned by the wonderful Prison.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
Audio, so one be transparent about that one. So again,
thank you for tuning in.

Speaker 6 (01:00:40):
Let's continue to make change happen together.