Marwin Battles Interview

In this powerful episode of Voiceless Behind Bars, host Sarah DeArmond sits down with Marwin Battles, who has spent over 33 years behind bars for a crime rooted in self-defense.

Wrongfully convicted in 1991, Marwin’s story highlights profound racial injustices and legal missteps that have kept him incarcerated.From the racially charged events that led to the tragic altercation at the Bay Port Apartments in Norman, Oklahoma, to the court's denial of a self-defense instruction and evidence of racial bias, Marwin's case raises serious questions about fairness and equality in the justice system.Despite the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals modifying his sentence to life with the possibility of parole, errors in court documents have wrongly labeled his sentence as life without parole, delaying his chances for release.

Learn how Marwin’s case has gained national attention and why advocates are calling for his release.Marwin has not only fought for justice but also used his time in prison to create meaningful change. His nonprofit, the Allinone Project, supports aging inmates and juvenile offenders, aiming to advance prison reform, re-entry programs, and housing solutions.

💡 Take Action

• Write to the Oklahoma Pardon and Parole Board at [e-mail] and urge them to allow Marwin Battles to advance to the next stage of parole eligibility.
• Learn more about Oklahoma’s Pardon and Parole process in the FAQ document.

📨 Contact the Allinone Project
102 South 2nd Street
Eufaula, Oklahoma 74432

This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about justice reform and the fight against racial inequities. Don’t miss Marwin’s moving story of resilience and hope.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Zoon me the faided inside the care foodstacke.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Not every light is gone and got your baby, doesn't
let a main ice bag keep me close to your house.
I love the Presci's kind of javy Kaidy because you
are to the manness in the morning.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
It's all kind of then it's show me a fadedside, becrefoodstade,
Not every I didn't gone and guide you.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna saw a highlight,
Peter Pan, real life, be living out my dreams, come
waking up. It's in a forest land, whole wrist covering
up in ice.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Welcome to Boys with fine bars. This is your host,
Sarah the armand and oh man, I am so glad
that I got my friend Mart went on here because
his story needs to be heard. Every story does, every
case does. What's happened to him will infuriate you. Before
we get to that, let's welcome more to the show. Maron,

(01:02):
thank you for going on. You might introducing yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yes, hey, hello, hello everyone. My name is Marwin Battles
and I'm currently incarcerated in Oklahoma.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
And it's been thirty three years.

Speaker 5 (01:16):
And it's been exactly thirty three years. In counting that is.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
So we're gonna get to it at that band aid hall.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
What happened?

Speaker 4 (01:28):
Oh that got you to where you are today?

Speaker 5 (01:33):
Okay, Now, should we just kind of start in the
very beginning, Sarah, that led up to all of this,
because this has really been a chain of events in
my life. Oh woah, where you know, from the time Okay,
when I was a younger, a younger child. I'm gonna
say around eleven, twelve, thirteen years old. I had lost

(01:55):
my brother earlier, I was about seven years old, to
a drunk river. And so the thing is that as
I got older, about twelve years old, my mom she
seemed that I was kind of getting involved into the
inner city things, gang activity, hanging out with the wrong people.
So she really wanted me to graduate high school, you know,

(02:17):
go to college, things of that nature. So she moved
me and my sister moved us to the suburbs of
Oklahoma City to a town called Norman, Norman, Oklahoma. I
spent my first couple of years at Norman eighth grade, seventh,
eighth grade. But when I was a summer of my

(02:41):
eighth grade, my ninth grade year, the summer of my
ninth grade eighty. Now I'm sorry. Summer of my freshman
year in high school, I was thirteen fourteen years old
at the time, and I'm trying to run back because
I'm an old man. Now I'm trying to. I'm trying
to and so I'm trying to make sure. Yeah, I'm

(03:04):
trying to make sure that i'm you know, getting my timelines,
you know, trying to be factual, trying to be factual.
That is, I was about thirteen fourteen years old, and
I used to babysit in the summertime. I used to babysit.
They had a hut housing like low income housing in Norman,
and it was like apartments. They were called Vicksburgs apartments.
And over there in Vicksburds they had like a lot

(03:25):
of kids during the summertime. I would go over there
and get a lot of the younger black children, you know,
between five, six, seven, eight years old. At this particular day,
I had like five kids with me. The youngest was
one of their kids with me. He was five years old.
And I took these five children over to the recreation center.
I did that in the summertime because they the parents

(03:47):
paid me like two dollars an hour, and all I
had to do was just take them over to the
recreation center and just recreation center and they didn't really
see us lunch, but they also have them take naps
and things, and I could just go and hang out
in the recreation play basket ball all day with my friends,
and so it always worked out for me. Well, this
particular day, on July twenty seventh, nineteen eighty four, I

(04:10):
had these children with me, and I had an old friend.
He was an old friend of mine when we were kids.
When I grew up in Oklahoma City as a younger,
like you know, early five, six, seven, eight, nine years old,
I knew this guy. Grew up with him in the
same area, and his family moved to Norman, where when
my family moved to normand to get away from Oklahoma City,

(04:31):
the suburbs of it, you know, moved to the suburbs
of it. And he didn't move with his family though,
because he was already in the streets kind of in
the mix. But I know, so he had stolen Caari
on this particular day, and he had came up to
hang out in Norman with his little brother and his
sister and his mom but you know, but so he's
in the recreation center. He was fifteen, that's right, I

(04:53):
was thirteen year of reporting. And so his little brother
was five years old. Well, we were playing basketball inside
the gymnas and at the recreation center and his little brother,
little little Lionel, he come walking on the basketball court
while we're running up and down the court, dripping wet.
So we stopped playing and we asked him, well, you know,

(05:15):
what are you doing? Get off the court? What's wrong
with you? And he was crying and he had said
that he pointed out this one guy. He said, he
put my head into pep and we what you mean
then to do? And then so the Indian guy, he's
a friend of mine too. Actually his brother is one
of my good friends. And different Norman Uh, he was
the same age me and Sunny Fixico, we were the

(05:37):
same age. And his brother was a couple of years
old and mess JD. And he worked at the recreation
center for the summer job as a summer job sixties seventeen. Well,
he had gave a little five year old what what
it's called back in my day and in the uh,
I'm gonna say the Caucasian culture that is so used
to give what they call swirlies where they take one

(05:59):
of the one of their own and they take their
head and turn the hold it held him upside down
and stick their head inside of toil stool and flushed
the stool and then their her twirls up. But my culture,
our her doesn't twirl up like that. But so so
the older guy, i mean the older brother, seen what
was going on and he the dude was saying it,

(06:20):
so he went he went to pull a knife out
of his gym bag and trying to get at the
Indian guy. Well, I'm breaking this up because both of
these guys are my friends, right, and so we're all
trying to break it up and everything. So the the lady,
the supervisor of the recreation center, Wendy Ward is her name,
and she was and she had called the Nornor police department,

(06:43):
and so before the police even got there, we had
broken up. And the said nobody got hurt or anything.
And uh, he the guy that actually had the knife,
and everybody was, you know, weren't scared of he ran off,
so nobody knew him, so nobody could say who he
was or anything. And so he ran out by the
time the cops got there. So everybody's outside of the

(07:05):
recreation center. Now, the supervisor, everybody, the aerobics instructor, everybody's outside.
So while I'm standing next to the four kids at
our mom that our babysitting, the officer jumps out the
car when he pulls up, and he orders us to
lay on the hot asphalt. Now, on this particular day,

(07:26):
it was one hundred and six degrees outside. It was
summer of eighty four, July twenty seven, and I'm trying
to explain to the officer that we ain't got nothing
to do with this, and then he put his not
only that, he forced me to the ground, he put
his knee in my back and put the gun to
the back of my ear and told me not to breathe. Well,

(07:49):
actually I couldn't even breathe anyway with his knee in
my back, to be honest. But you got to remember
I'm a fourteen year old kid at this time, so
you know, hold on second, Oh my gosh. So basically

(08:10):
that happened. So while all the parents are called to
the scene, and everybody's called to the scene, my mom
kid there. So what happened was a lady that one
of the witnesses was in Rose destructure. She had witnessed
everything and and this, and so she had told my
mom what happened and everything. So to make a long story,

(08:30):
shouldn't that fine? Lawsuits came out of that. My mom
found five separate lawsuits we had as a class action
police misconduct. One of the lawsuits was it happened at
a park recreational Carnegie. So that's that's who you know.
They sue the federal government, They sued the Cleveland County,

(08:53):
the normally police department. The police officer put the gun
in my head. And I did say the settle government.
It was park recreation of Carnegie, federal government, the police officer,
Cleveland County, in norm police department. Five lawsuits. Well at
that time, Sarah. Then lawsuits went on for four years.

(09:14):
It was a class action. And four years later I
became eighteen years old. Like I said, my family, we
moved out of Norman. We had to move. We moved
out of Norman. I ended up graduating college, graduating high school.
In nineteen eighty seven, I graduated Navy ro TWC at
Capitol Hill High School. I went off to college. I

(09:35):
got a basketball and track scholarship. I went off to
Hutcheson Junior College my freshman year. And while I was
in Hutchinson Junior College there they started having these rapid
hearings for them lawsuits that started when I was fourteen
years old. And now that I was an adult, my
mother could not show up in my behalf. I had

(09:57):
to be there now. But remind you, I lived out
of state. Now I'm in college and the last thing
I cared about is a lawsuit. And I really never
knew much about it besides when it was signed back
when I was a kid. I never want you any hearings,
never had to it just had to go to psychologists,
psychiatrists and things like that because of the trauma. But
so basically I didn't want to miss a hearing because

(10:23):
they would just throw the lassit out. That's what happens.
So I ended up the attorney representing these particular parties
that we were suing came to visit me on a
couple occasions, and on her second occasion, her name was
Patricia D. Herron. You might want to remember that name,
Patricia D. Herron. She was the attorney representing the officer

(10:47):
who actually puts the gun to my head. Actually, the
Cleveland County and the Northern Police Department. So at that time,
the second visit that she had with I set a
lot of court. I set her out of court for
a lump sum of money. But if you go on
Google and look up my name and it'll show you

(11:12):
this whole lawsuit. I just spoke about, it's police wasconduct.
But it also says that my family received one point
seven million dollars. That ain't true. Yeah, so I just
want to say that's a misfriend but that ain't true.
But anyway, that happened. So I got on with my life.

(11:34):
I set her out of court with that. With Patricia,
you know, a lump some money went got domn with that.
Got on with my life. I went on, continued on
with my college career. I hadn't I hadn't been in Norman,
Oklahoma since nineteen eighty five. I actually was there for
the last time in eighty five. I went to more
High School in the same county and we had a

(11:55):
basketball game we played against Norman, and they wouldn't let
me play. They wouldn't allow me to play because because
of these lawsuits. They would allow me to play in
the game because I was sueing the county. So I
didn't get to play, but I was in Norman had
to stay in the locker room. That's the something I
wanted to bring up. But anyway, moving so moving forward, Sarah,

(12:16):
and I don't want to sound boring here, but I'm gonna
get on too, Okay, So moving on. I went on
to town. I finished at my freshman year in Hutcheson, Kansas,
which we was the NJCA national champions my freshman year
in nineteen eighty eight, were in the national and so
I left there. I had a coach that my mentor

(12:41):
when I was a kid, that actually took me under
his wing, named Claude l Overton. His son played basketball
for OU. His name was Bo Overton. He was liable
with me and back in the day, and I was
a ball boy because of this, and Nina that was
a ball boy. Oh year, and it's not traveling going
to different camps. Well, cdel Claudell's son Bo got his

(13:04):
first head coaching job at a college called Murray State.
It's in Oklahoma and Chishamingo, Oklahoma. And so Cloudell had
called me up, called me up in Kansas and asked
me to come and play for his help get his team,
his son team going, and get his first job. So
I transferred from hutch to Chi Chiamingo my sophomore year.

(13:30):
We did a good job that year. We didn't win
a championship, but we did a good job. And then
I went off from there and I went off to
a Division one. I went to Miami University in Dade County,
Curl City in South Beach in Miami, Florida. I did
my first semester and a half there and then I
transferred to Oklahoma. The summer of ninety nineteen ninety, I

(13:53):
came back to Norman, Oklahoma, where my life changed Twevorans
to Norman to OU. I didn't actually transfer just to
be with my high school sweetheart, but it did play
a part in my decision making because you know, like

(14:14):
she's three years behind me. So when she was a
freshman in college, I was a junior and I was
on my way. I was actually a first year senior,
and I was on my way back coming back to
OU because oh, you had a better basketball team and
they needed a point guard and that's what I played.
And I knew that that's you know, working. So my recruiter,
Michael Mehms at the time, got me recruited and sent

(14:36):
me there. So I came back to Norman, Oklahoma, which
my family strongly suggested that I'd never go back to Norman, Oklahoma.
My mom, they've always told me, never go back to Norman, Oklahoma.
But like I said, I grew up in Norman. It's
a little time I was there. I grew up on
the Marlwin's Driver. I didn't grow up on the Marlwin Battles.
Nobody knew Marlin Battles. All of my friends, everybody ever

(14:58):
met me at high school, my high school career, all
my life, my name was Marwin Driver and so they
didn't know me as Marwin Battles. So basically when I transferred,
now we're going to get to why I am where
I am today? Okay. So I got to Norman, Oklahoma

(15:20):
on June of nineteen ninety. I think it was like
the sixth. I flew in to the Will Rogers Airport
and shuttled Oh you shuttled me to Norman, Oklahoma. When
I got to my apartment, I already had a key.
But she and my significant other at the time, she

(15:43):
had left a note on the door since she was
in the laundry Matt, so I to all my luggage
and everything in the apartment. Mind you, we hadn't seen
each other in over a year and a half because
I'm in Miami, Florida. So it wasn't no coming on
the weekends. Yeah, it wasn't happening. So we hadn't seen
each almost a year and a half, so we could

(16:04):
wait to see each other. So I threw my luggage
in there and ran to the laundry mat. When I
got to the laundry mat, there were three females, including Jennifer,
and four white guys. The four white guys I know
all their names now, but at this point in time,
I didn't know none of them. But the females in there,

(16:29):
I didn't know none of them either but Jennifer. But
when I walked inside of the laundry mat, Jennifer immediately
turned around and seen me and jumped up and hugged
me and grabbed me, and we embraced for quite some time,
kissed whatever. And then she wants to try and introduce
me to people, and I was quite arrogant. I will

(16:50):
say that I was an athlete. I was always the
shortest guy on the team. You know, I'm six foot three,
so that's not really short, but on the basketball team
that's short, know so, and so it's time and so
I was feel arrogant and I plays, you know, into
a into a fraternity, so I had I was. I
was an arrogant guy, you know, you know, because I

(17:12):
got I was on top of the world. And uh
so when she went to introduce me to these people,
and I was just like, I don't even care, and
I said, I said, first of all, I like you
to put that cigarette out. You know, I don't like
who's smoking around me. And the guy I said this too,
is one of the guys that ended up being one
of the intruders that came to my home right later on.

(17:35):
But anyway, he put the cigarette out and stepped on
it and you know, said something slick remark. No big deal.
We didn't get into no confrontation or anything. But I
was kind of arrogant about it. You know, I didn't
like people who smoked anything. I was a little little
health nut as well as an athlete, and I tried
to impose on everybody else. You know, you can't do that,

(17:57):
you know, just because I feel a certain kind of way.
I mean, I got to you feel that way, and
you know you have to. That comes with wisdom, I guess.
But so basically that was the first encounter I had
with this group of individuals. So that was in June,
so July, i'll stay around August, we started getting threatening

(18:18):
phone calls, prank phone calls. They started somebody started calling us,
you know, using racial slurs, you know, because we're interracial related.
You know, we're interracial couple. And then they started scratching up,
you know, the vehicles with the Negro level word. Then,

(18:40):
so we're gonna say on December Christmas Day of nineteen
ninety uh, that's when the Godfather three movie came out.
So me and Jennifer we walked down the street to
the to the Senate, to the theater. It w wasn't
too far from where we live, and we walked down

(19:01):
there and watched Godfather three on Christmas Day. When we
got back that evening, that's when we started seeing We
seen the feasts on the door we got ben it
was like the guys were having a party. They were
having a big party. And we walked past the party,

(19:22):
and I had told her to go into the apartment,
and she went the other way, and I walked, say, look,
they were yelling something, so I kind of went that way.
And then they were like, we were just inviting you
to the party, brother, And I just kept walking looked
at him, you know, kind of great, kind of mad
because I'm thinking, which one of these guys is being
scratching up stuff and put stuff on our door and
prank calling us. Well, come to find out, one of

(19:44):
these guys I went to high school. I went to
school with, well, I went the mid high with. His
name was Chris Badcock. He wasn't one of the guys
that actually showed up as the intrusion of my home,
but at least I didn't see him. But he is
the one that actually lit the fire to all of this.
But all that came out later on. He I guess

(20:07):
he just never liked the fact of my girlfriend. He's
always liked her. I guess I didn't know. I didn't him,
but I didn't know that we were like, I didn't
know all that was going on or paying attention all that. Well,
So on that day, that night everything went, I got
that night of Christmas Day, everything went good. So on January,

(20:28):
I guess I'm going to say around the twentieth something
that range. I'm kind of thinking about the incident report.
It was an incident report written what's the police department.
It was around twenty second of January of nineteen ninety one.
Because I wasn't even in Oklahoma during the time when

(20:49):
they did whatever they did to the door. I was
actually at some kind of basketball camp in Biddling, Texas,
I think, or something like that. When I got back
is when I learned that information. I want you to
point out that when these guys on this day, that morning,

(21:09):
that night before they came to my home, they once
again invited me to another party. They had an on
site maintenance man named David Green. He worked for the
apartment complex. He had pulled me to his apartment and
talked to me the day before this case happened, and
he had said, man, you need to watch yourself. Man,

(21:31):
I don't know what's going on, but I think these
guys up front, I just want you to watch yourself.
I'm hearing a lot of things and I think that's
who it is. And he said, I did get you
that apartment because I was going to move to these
other apartments across the other side of campus that following week.
The week before my case happened, we were already moving
to another apartment just to get away from all that.

(21:52):
And so but that morning, that night I went to
sleep around midnight because my uncle had came over and
he had came over I had seen him in years,
my mom's baby brother. He said he had hurt I
moved back to do Himan, and he hated the fact
that I even came in on him. And why did
I you know, he said, I understand you're trying to

(22:12):
you know, you know, I was looking trying to do't
me My dream was going to the NBA. I mean,
that was that was very big for me. If you
kind of knew my history of watch videos up and
you know, that's what my life was geared behind. I
was raised to do that a lot of people I've
met in life, but so that's all I could think of.
So anyway, so this day when this happened, these guys came.

(22:34):
That morning, I woke up to my my girl screaming
and saying, wake up, wake up, somebody's in the house.
By the time I'm coming to out hear, nigger, you're
gonna die. You're not running anything. I mean, I'm and
it's so you got to remember these apartments, so it's
really loud at five, five fifteen in the morning. This

(22:56):
guy when I go down the hallway, these guys, this
guy is actually standing. They've kicked my whole door down
to where it came off the hinges and was laying
on the middle of the living room floor cracked. He
was standing in the middle of the door, cracked the
door down the middle. And you know, he's a big guy.
I was twenty one years old. He was nineteen. You know,

(23:20):
they say, they make it act like I was a
grown man or something. You know, I was a kid.
I have never dealt with any violence in my life.
I've never had any kind of juvenile or adult violent
crime or gun charges or shooting with none of that
in my life. So I've never dealt with so much

(23:44):
hate and disdain directed towards me. Never. And I actually
grew up in the suburbs and I had a lot
of Caucasians and Indian and Hispanic friends. The majority of
my friends to this day are that you know, and
I've never had to do with racism growing up until
that day like that, besides the situation what happened with

(24:06):
the police putting the gun in my head, but the
situation that happens that morning, when those when I had
to go and face these guys, and I only had
to go face them because my girl's brother, he stayed
at night that night. He had got into it with
his girlfriend or whatever, so he stayed night on our
sofa in the living room. Anyway, we play a little
Nintendo before I went to bed, and so he was

(24:30):
in there screaming. So I ran down the hallway. I
knew I had a gun in my cereal box. I
knew that I had to get the gun. I had
to get a gun just because of everything that was
going on, right you know, we was a threatned and
I did a lot of hunting. I used to hunt
a lot, so I had bigger guns. You know, I'm
not gonna sit there or say I didn't. But I
ain't never shot anybody. I ain't never even hurt anybody

(24:54):
in my life straight up. You know, let's just never have.
But this situation here, I knew I had to get
past him in order to get to my little twenty two.
It was a twenty two pistol. And when I finally
got to that pistol after the little fight to get there,
when I first shot that guy in the chest, he
the last at me. The nigger is shooting the capta.

(25:16):
I really thought, I was. You know, I've never shot anybody.
So on the movies, when you watch TV and you
see somebody get shot, you see blood immediately, right, But
that's not in real life, not with a twenty two.
You don't you know, you don't see blood. I don't
know all this, don't you now. But so I'm thinking, dang,

(25:36):
you know this guy. You know they're drunk. You know
they're they're intoxicated their own drugs that they're not. So
I took it. I took a pretty good, pretty good beat.
Let's say that. All the way out into the breezeway.
You know, I had no front door, so I ended
up shooting into the crowd again when those guys ran off,
and they ran off when the police came and all

(25:57):
that and all that. Okay, so we get past that
intrusion of my home all that. I just want to
point out these things to you. The Quarter of Criminal Appeals.
You know, I had an all white jury, Sarah, I
had an all white jury, and they looked at this case.

(26:21):
They did not They said that my first shot was justified.
It was inside of my apartment. They looked past the
fact that these guys literally kicked in my door all
because I was black and my girl was white. And
they said this over and over in jery trial. They
one of the guys apologized to me in trial coming

(26:42):
he didn't know it was going to go that far.
But the way he apologized was really appalling because he said, nigger,
I did not know it was going to go that far.
That's what his words wasn't from the jury. So I
look at this that it's been thirty three years. I've

(27:03):
been really fighting for my freedom the whole time. And
a lot of people say, man, don't you feel bad
for taking a life? Definitely any human being? And I
and I am God ordained and I lived by the
Father of Jesus Christ, whether you know, that's just me
and I did and so that's just what it is.
And and I'm a soldier in Christ. And I do

(27:27):
know this that God knows that you know, I've never
intended to take a life, you know, Am I sorry?
I can't. How do I have that remorseful that you
would have when all you face was hating, disdain at
you for nothing.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
Yeah, you were off in danger and you were sending
yourself this one. You know, I'm gonna work. There was
no intent to kill him? What never any intent? It
was I need to protect myself, I need to protect
my girl.

Speaker 5 (27:57):
Yeah. Well yeah, I mean I never crossed my mind
that I was going to take somebody's life, evening, even
the even doing the heat of the encounter. You know,
my thing was this here is that self defense? Today,

(28:18):
I would have never got charged. In Oklahoma. They have
a new law in Oklahoma called the Standard Round Law
that came out sixteen years later. Do you know the
Quarter of Criminal piters that all white jury found me
guilty of this case and sentenced me to a life
without parole sentence. And mind you, like I said, I

(28:40):
don't have any violent history anywhere, So why.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
Did they find you guilty? Even though they said, you.

Speaker 5 (28:47):
Know, they said this is what they said. They said
that the first shot was justified. They said the second
shot he got hit in the back, and that they
were trying to run off. I shot them in the back,
and that was murder. So here you go. So here's
the Quarter of Criminal Appeals. The Quarter Criminal Appeals gave

(29:09):
four reasons, Sarah, why they modified my sentence from life
without to life okay. And one of the reasons, the
first reason was they talked about the cumic effective errors
which occurred during the prosecutor's closing argument. Here's number two,
the racial instigation by Ellis and his friends. Here's number three,

(29:33):
the life experience of mister Battles as a black man
faced with a lynch mob, and they put that in parentheses,
faced with a lynch mob situation, in the apparent fear
and terror they'refrom. And number four, see the number four
reason that they said why they modified my sentence is

(29:54):
why they should have let me go home instead of
just modified my sentence because the prosecuted say the first
shot was justified and the second shot was murder. Well,
the Quarter of Criminal Pills say right here. The fourth
reason the conflicting evidence as to whether mister Battles intentionally
aimed at mister Ellis's back. So the Quarter Criminal Pills

(30:20):
under day listened to my side of it, and the
witness that spoke that money has there was never nobody
that testified nowhere in my trial, my seventh eight day trial,
that I chased and shot somebody in the back. The
only person who said that was the district attorney. Now,

(30:41):
mind you, when they put my case together, the murder case,
the case happened on February fifth, five, fifteen am in
the morning that day. On February fifth, at eleven o'clock
that morning, I was released self defense. That afternoon, after

(31:01):
the interview was done, everybody was talking and my name
came out as Marwin Driver. I was arrested the next
morning under a murder warran aka Marwin Driver. The officer
who arrested me is the detective who put the gun
to my head when I was fourteen years old. At
God's the police has done that. He was just a

(31:22):
regular patrol officer at the time, Burnette Officer Burnett was
a regular officer. He wasn't a detective. He was a
detectives that put this murder case together against me. You
got to remember everything that I'm talking to you about.
His tracks on. Everything is on paper is already been
calculated by people that you already know the transcripts. So

(31:43):
mind you. You remember earlier on said that I mentioned
that Patricia d. Herring that won the civil suit attorney. Okay,
so this attorney ended up becoming the judge later in life,
and she became that. She was the judge that handled

(32:05):
my case in Jerry trial. She is the one that
was up against me. Didn't want to you know that
I had to go through as civil suitide police racial misconduct.
So now I look up, she's my judge now. So
not only was I a clearly a conflict of interest,

(32:31):
she refused to get off that case, and my lawyer
then was trying to get her off the case because
it was the right thing to do. You know, you're
biased right now, But so I wanted to elaborate on this.
Is there anything that you need to ask me, Sarah
before I put this up?

Speaker 4 (32:49):
All right, anything I need to ask you some Who
is the one who off police officer who's a patrolman
at the time, who all key rolling? All?

Speaker 5 (33:02):
Yeah? His name is Officer Burnette and Officer Stacy. Them
are the ones Officer Burnett and Officer Stacy. And the
one that actually had the gun was Lucas. Officer Lucas.
I'm looking at my paper trying to look here I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (33:22):
No, it's okay, but that's long.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
Yeah, cluster, Officer Lucas and Officer Burnett was a two
in car together, and Lucas is the one that actually
put the gun to my head. Yeah, and they play,
Yeah they made, Yeah, they built, they built the murder
case in nineteen eighty four, they caused the police misconduct

(33:45):
and then and then as as adults later on in life,
you know, I'm you know, life has moved on since
eighty four, but not with him because those because they're looking,
I mean, just the things they were saying in me. Now,
let me give you some history about some that I must.
I was told to make sure I put this out there. See,
the guy that I ended up taking his life, Christopher Ellis,

(34:08):
ended up dying, and may God rest on his soul.
The thing is is that the medical examiner, she would
not give an opinion on whether the first shot or
the second shot was the fatal shot. She would not
do that. As you know. The thing and here's one

(34:30):
thing I learned is over the years that they have technology.
The way technology is now is that I've seen this
on forty eight hours, where if a person shoots one
gun and shoots somebody fifteen times and there is one
entry hole, they can tell you which bullet out of

(34:50):
those fifteen was to kill shot. They also speak about
if there was four different entry wounds and three different
guns on one body, that the metal examiner can tell
you exactly which bullet was to kill shot. The medal
examiner put on my autopsyed the cause of death multiple

(35:13):
gunshot wounds to the chest. That didn't happen. He got
shot twice multiple was three or more and he didn't
get hit in his chest but one time, and he
got hit in his back shoulder blade the second time.
That's something highly or topic report, but that's what she

(35:34):
put for the cause of death. So I just want
to say that a lot of the I don't like
to get into the big conspiracy theory and all of that,
but the reality of the story, everybody involved in my
civil suit is directly involved in this murder case where
these guys literally kicked in my door and literally came

(35:57):
to my home.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
Well, I've seen stuff like this happened more than what
So yes, this.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
I mean have befoord.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
Unfortunately, in just talking to everyone listening, this is reality.

Speaker 5 (36:09):
I know it sounds.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
Strange with fiction, but that's what happens when it comes
to every wrongful connection your case out there, as when
it comes to those who's whom in regularly yet just
the stuff that they pull behind the scenes.

Speaker 5 (36:23):
Yes, awful, it's crazy and it's sad. I want to
say this that you know, and I'm going to put
this out there. I'm sorry you know that Chris Dodge,
you know, and you know, and I'm sorry that he
has so much hate in his heart. I really am.
I can't, you know, to be so young nineteen, you know,
he seems so full of life, you know, partying and

(36:45):
I don't care, but it's so much hate in his
heart towards black and white being together. And I regret
that he died, you know, and not because I'm in prison.
I've already been in thirty three years. So for me
to say this now that you know, it's not make
a breast, it's not gonna make or break me. I'm
only speaking on what's on my heart right now, you know.

(37:06):
And you know, if I had it all to do
it over again, you know, this would have never happened.
You know. I don't know what I could have did differently,
because I've never been dealt with a situation like that.
I don't know what to do. I wasn't traying to
handle this situation. All I knew what not to do
is that I couldn't jump out the window and leave
my girl behind. I knew I couldn't do that, so

(37:26):
I had to deal with the situation. You know, if
he wouldn't have never hit my girl, I probably would
have never shot him the first time, right, I mean,
I probably would never try to. You know, I thought
I was a bad ass, you know, even though I
was a smaller guy. But I thought I was a badass,
so I'd rather just fight you. I couldn't get to
my back because the other guy had my back. They
kicked the door. Now don't got my back. So I

(37:48):
couldn't do anything on that level. So I'm just saying
there was nothing I could do on that level. I
couldn't do it, but I would do it differently. Here's
the thing. My life was really in danger. Everything that
I did, everything was done out of desperation, right desperation
and fear. Straight up, I've never been so scared. I

(38:13):
was so scared to even go down the hallway Sarah,
I didn't want to go deal with the situation. And
then I couldn't believe somebody was calling me nigger, You're
gonna die so loud and thundering them. Everybody was like
it was like a big party in my living room.
But I had to go deal with that, you know.
And so one of the biggest things. I've been a

(38:36):
parole seven times, Sarah, I haven't talked to a parole
board yet. I have every program that this Oklahoma Department
of Corrections has to offer. I actually write curriculums right
now for the Department of Corrections. I am an advocate
for all inmates and there you wouldn't find an inmate

(38:59):
throughout the whole system. You say my name that ain't
gonna say something good. I'll run a lot of movements
through the system here, different reards. I do a lot
of different outreach stuff because that's what I was doing
before prison. I meant to outreach. I worked in the
outreach departments and I just continue to do that. But
I must share this with you, Sarah, that when I

(39:20):
got to the county jail on this case, they put
me in a tank with an eighty man take. I
was the only black in the tank and the guy
that I ended up killing, his brother was in there.
Can you imagine what happened to me in that and
that and that in that cell block sea block. I

(39:41):
mean you, I'm sure that people can get to medical
and get to get the records. It wouldn't be no,
you know, I had to. I went to a lot, Okay.
So after that I ended up surviving, living going through that. Okay.
So when I got to prison, they when you first
come to prison in Oklahoma, Sarah, they take you to
a n R S a recept And when I got

(40:02):
there and they screened you for diseases, medical, all kinds
of stuff put they put you insistent. Well, during the
time I was there, you know, I was told by
the n R and by the director there that that
I had what they call the SOS put on me.
So OS is called STAB on site. So OS, that's

(40:23):
what it's called STAB on site. They got a prison
grown gang here called the Oklahoma your u ABS. They
had the independent UABS and all of them got taken
out in ninety five. They had to convert over to
the UABS, the Universal Arab or a ABS. Okay. Well,

(40:44):
when I came to prison, the guy that I killed
had two brothers already incarcerated that had been in for
a while. And there were captains in these gangs of
the yards to run the run the yards. So when
I came to prison, I had a choice either go
to protect it or go out there and deal with it. Well,
I've chosen to go out there and deal with and

(41:04):
as you can tell, I'm here thirty three years later,
safe what I use in protective custody. I've been through
a lot in prison. I've had to do things. I've
had to do things to keep my life. A lot.
My first fifteen years of this thirty three years was
saving my own life right. So I've done things that
I never thought I could do. That's why I know

(41:26):
God is real. I know you real. I haven't been stabbed,
I haven't been hitting the head. I haven't required medical
rush out of the system to an ambulance. I haven't
required any of that, thank Jesus. But I've been But
I've been through a whole bunch in here. And so
I say all that to saying that they have this

(41:49):
new law in Oklahoma called the Oklahoma Survivors Act, and
I strongly feel that I'm an Oklahoma survivor and was
I was attacked in my home. There was nothing that
I did in this whole case that went while I'm
still here in prison after thirty three years. There's nothing.

(42:13):
I had a lawyer, my mom heard a lawyer, which
you know we have. Punny come from a lot of money, Sarah,
I don't have money. Just keeping it real, I never have.
I had it, I prob would have been out of prison.
But I will say this to you that we heard
an attorney. Her name was Deborah Khampton. She's an attorney
to do my parole board. So she started doing my

(42:34):
package in twenty fifteen. I've been going up since twenty
oh five, though I mean I'm s since O five,
but she started doing my packets. And when she did
my package, I just now learned through Jackie, you know
the east that took me, that every package she did,
she led the parole board with some false information. That

(42:58):
probably is a reason and why I never got past
first stage. Do you know that she wrote, I didn't
even know, and I've been having this all of these
things that I sent to Jackie and him, but I
didn't know under no circumstances that she said these things

(43:19):
eight years ago. Right back, Okay, I'm gonna show you
something I was Okay, it says here, Okay, I'm gonna
share this with you. This is transcripts. Okay, are you there, Sarah?
Oh well, okay, we're good on time. Oh yeah, everything okay,

(43:44):
I don't know. He told me I'm looking for this part.
I'm sorry, No, take your time. I just don't want
to get it wrong to take your time. Okay, all right,
So talks about pleaded okay, ma'am okay, talks about okay. Oh,

(44:11):
here you go. Okay, okay, I'm a quote prima pill.
The firm judgment of sentence modifies since philosiund press Okay,
that ain't it. Okay, Let's go to this one. He
gave me these notes. I just don't want to leave
nothing out here. Okay, let's go here. Well yeah, Australia. Oh,

(44:34):
here we go. No, that ain't it. Oh, here you go.
She put in here. This is what she wrote in here, Sarah,
and all of my package for the parole boards she
put Following the presentation of the evidence on August twenty ninth,
nineteen ninety one, and all White jury convicted Marwin of

(44:56):
murder in the first degree and recommended death in the
court sentenced Marwing to death on September third, nineteen ninety one,
and then she put here on September twelfth, nineteen ninety five.
They'll come a quote from appeals affirmed the judgment of
the trout board, but modified sentenced to life in prison.

(45:19):
See she missiles. See normally, when people on death row,
when they get action to life and they take them
off death row and get them life without that's normally
all the action they get right, and they feel like
they've done a great justice, you know, already formed being
a you know, whatever happened, and that's the truth. And

(45:41):
she did that on every package twenty fifteen to twenty
twenty four. And I've just now seen that, and I'm like,
why would she say that? So that'll never get me
pass first stage? And it kind of hurt my feelings
because she cost she costs too much money to be
doing that that. There's SA It's okay, I had that,

(46:07):
but time. Okay, So any questions, please ask me anything,
because I don't want to, you know, miss your points.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
Oh no, it's no problem. So when was it again?

Speaker 5 (46:20):
You found out?

Speaker 4 (46:21):
I know Jackie h website just the spotlight where we
were introduced. H So Jackie mark a person and I
just wanted to give some shout out. But what is
it they found this out and share the information with you?

Speaker 5 (46:40):
Well, okay, Well I had gave him my paperwork and
uh so they had enlightened me about that, and I
was like, no, I ain't never been on death for
Oh thank god they told two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
Oh goodness.

Speaker 5 (46:58):
I just wanted just to go and this stuff been
in my in my person's forever and just think of
the fresh eyes of people who are really engaged in
these things. And they that I learned some things that
other things I didn't know about as well, But don't
you learn well, just uh, just a lot of the
they didn't read me.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
They didn't do any self defense instructions at my jury
travel you know, you know, you know they had a
self defense uh uh they said that I could you know,
I guess they said I couldn't ask a self defense
because I left out of my apartment. Well i'd had
no door, what do you mean? But they're no longer

(47:41):
in the apartment. But it's just a lot of things
that you know, I was saying earlier about I guess
it's the timing, the timing right now, you know, And
I know a lot of people Christ Wolf in prison,
you know, Sarah, A lot of people. A lot of
people say they didn't do this, and they do that.

(48:01):
It's not that I didn't that I didn't commit this act, Okay, right,
I mean I live it every day they're in. A
night that I go to sleep and a day that
I'm blessed wake up in the morning that I don't
think about that day. And it's it's something that don't
fade away, right, you don't, you know, you don't. Oh,

(48:27):
it changed, It changes you, and it almost changed me
for the worst in here because at one point, it
was hard for men to visit family members, and I
have family members from all walks of life, and my kids,
you know, have the best of both worlds, and it
was hard for me to even visit with their moms

(48:48):
and their mom's moms because everybody's you know, they you know,
I get visitors and people come and see me, been
for years, you know, just you know, it could be
people that I'm you know, I've had school teachers come
and see me that knew me. In school. You know,
I get different visitors, people that I don't even remember
that show up sometimes. And it's been thirty something years

(49:10):
and I still get people show up in my life,
and you know, it's just wild to me that you
know that even these people have wrote all these letters,
and so many letters have been written to the parole
board by so many different people, so many character witnesses
of me, And I've never had an opportunity to talk
to the partner parole board. They don't even know me,

(49:36):
because the.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
Opportunity to talk to them now that you know this
information what she did.

Speaker 5 (49:43):
Okay, My understanding is is that we're in the first stage,
and this the first stage of this is you know,
is critical, and that's with you. This is to get
this out there, and then they have something else going on.
I don't know, and I guess after this little situation whenever,
they're going to try to apply some kind of needed

(50:04):
pressure to where she go ahead and get with the
director and have them resubmit, because I just went up
for parole this year, saver where this year and got
turned down as usual, and they only turned me down.
The reason they give is the nature of my crime,
right the nature of my crime. You know that's never

(50:27):
going to change. Yep, exactly. I mean I've been tried,
I've been tried by Jerry and convicted already. That's the
nature of the crime. The parole board and then investigator
and the parole board that they are denying me my
f right at an opportunity because the nature of the crime.

(50:49):
I'm saying all the time, guys with murder cases did
thirty years, thirty four years. They're getting out all the time.
And the last last few years I got friends that
an't gotten out on the same fight with me, get
a little bit longer than me, you know what. They're
out and under and their record looks nothing like my record.

(51:09):
Right when it comes to the prison record, you know,
I'm looking at the guys who are getting in and
I'm like, well, I mean, he actually killed these people.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
You know, I don't convicted people to who didn't kill
anyone or like in your case of self defense. And
they're you know, like in prisons out parole. But they
also know people who are like your thirty years, but
actually took the license to one you purposefully, they murdered someone,
They still.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
Got out, still got out, And I know, and I
know everybody's case is different, and God got God handles
everybody individually. I get it. And I'm a patient man.
God has been keeping me healthy and I just you know,
it's just hurts some time when you when you watch
the intruders, these other intruders. The guy Okay, Chris is dead.

(52:03):
He's deceased now, and God is resting on his soul.
And and and but his friends that were with him,
see to his friends, those those people were with him,
and and in Oklahoma, that's against the law. If we go,
just hypothetically speaking, me and you and me and you said,

(52:25):
we going We're going to go do a robbery. Okay,
I get killed doing the robbery, They're gonna charge you
with my murder. You know that, right right? Okay, that's
the law. That's been the law in Oklahoma since nineteen
seventy three. Okay, sestry to murder, and the sestry to
murder can actually give more time than the actual shooter.

(52:46):
And that's the law. But do you understand these other
three guys, the intruders that actually actually put hands on me,
that was here in my home. You know, they I
watched them raise their raising their grandkids, raised their kids,
raising their grandkids. You know, people sending me pictures of them,
my mom, you know, because my family keeps up with

(53:07):
every one of them, you know, and they're after living
their full life, you know, you know with no you know,
they didn't get charged with anything, you know, nothing, no burglaring,
you know nothing, you know. And and then and then
when you look at this Quarter of Criminal Appeals on
page four that they give a summary of opinion, and

(53:29):
it's states right here on page four of my summary opinion.
I mean, this is what it says, the fact that
the appellance race was the primary reason the victim in
his core hurts instigated the altercation. M hm, this is
what they say, not me, so so they did this,

(53:53):
but but but I'm still here and anything nothing. They've
been raised naking right now, they're on Facebook raising everybody's
living life. You know. I have angry family members from
years ago that really want to do bad things for
them people out there. But that's not that's not that

(54:14):
that don't do nothing for anybody. You know. God don't
like ugly. I don't care what I'm going through. I
don't want nobody to be ugly in my behalf because
it's going to come back on me, and God wouldn't
forgive me for that. So I don't think like that,
but I just know it hurts a lot of my
family and kids, and just watching these guys and watching

(54:36):
them how they ruined my whole life like that, right,
you know, I mean, you know, it's nothing. It's it's
it's and I don't want I'm not looking for people's
sympathy by doing this podcast, and a lot of people
can't even apply empathy. A lot of people get empathy
and sympathy confused, you know, you know, because empathy, you know,

(54:57):
is when you can put your feet in somebody else's
shoes and see what for where they're coming from. You know.
Sympathy is when you're feeling sorrow for somebody in sad.
I don't want that, no, because I've done the time
for the crime, if you want to call it a crime.
But I did take a life, and I've done the
time for that guy's life, and I didn't want to
take his life. He made me take his life, you know,

(55:21):
he made me. I didn't know any The thing is
that he wasn't as ugly as the other two guys.
M you know. And and and they the one did
the most fighting on me, he you know, So I
just didn't understand why they didn't get charged with anything

(55:43):
and there and there, and there's no statute of limitation
to murder in Oklahoma. And and those guys could still
be charged for his murder straight out, Yeah, they can
still be charged. There's no statute of limitations to murder
in Oklahoma. So those guys are still subject to be

(56:04):
in charge. And do I want them to be charged? Honestly, no,
it's been too long. I wouldn't want to take them
away from their families. That's just part of their life,
you know. And there you're working on their golden years.
You know. Who wants to see them come to prison?

Speaker 4 (56:23):
Now?

Speaker 5 (56:24):
Did I want that twenty years ago? Yes? I want
them to be in here doing time and using their
youth in here like I had to lose my youth, right,
you know.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
I see your point, I really do, because now it's
like it would there would be no lesson learned or
anything like in their youth. Yeah, definitely a lesson learned.
But now I don't see what difference it would make.

Speaker 5 (56:52):
Now.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
I'm not saying that they're not in the wrong. I'm
not saying that they, you know, shouldn't feel remorse. I'm
not condoning them at all. I'm just saying, you know,
this should have they should have gone time a wild back.

Speaker 5 (57:05):
Yeah, back then, but not now. It's too late for
all that. I wouldn't even I wouldn't attempt to do that.
But my thing is that I'm a big I'm a
big fan of never letting yesterday take up too much
of today. I'm a real big fan of that, Sarah.
And I just really appreciate the time that you've taken
out with me on your on your podcast. I've never

(57:26):
done a podcast before. I don't know how it's going
to come out, how I'm gonna sound, you know. And
I'm not man, I don't even know if I'm going
to reach people, you know, well they even like me,
you know. But my thing is, I do want people
to understand this for sure, that I'm not a murderer
and I'm not a threat to society. And I believe

(57:48):
that I can be effective in anybody's community. And I
think that I can be very approachable and that I
can help a lot of people. For what time that
I got on Earth, and that's just what I look at.
I have grand babies. I have three grand babies. I
just had my third grand baby. Her name is Juliana,
and Juliana my little jewel. She was born a couple

(58:10):
of weeks ago. Oh, she's so beautiful. And I have
Jojo Jojo is Jocelyn. Her name is Jocelyn and Jocelyn.
She's the oldest. She's the big sister. She's three years old.
And then I have Marwin the Third. I'm Marwin Senior.
Then my son is Marvin Junior. And then he named
his son Marven the third. So I have Marlin the third,

(58:33):
and he's two. Finna be three. So Juliana has a
big brother and a big sister, and they're young, they're
under five. And I'm at a right age to be
the real grandpa that I am. Get out there and
be with my babies. But that's what I would love to.

Speaker 4 (58:53):
Pastor.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
Yes, my son is a youth pastor and he at
a a pretty nice large church in Edmond, Oklahoma called
Oakdale Baptist Church, and it's Oakdale Baptist Church. He's also
a missionary and he just got back. He just got
back on Belie beliefs a few a few months back.
He's a missionary those different countries. He's a very good

(59:18):
young man. I look for if you meet him someday. Yeah,
he's amazing, Sarah, very proud. I am, I am I
and you know, and and like I said, I have
a daughter, Michelle. She's amazing. Michelle, she's amazing, and and

(59:39):
uh me, Michelle is my stepdaughter. But I raised her,
and you know, I raised her for all her life
and she's beautiful and she's wonderful her because her her
her brother is Marlin. So I guess that I don't

(01:00:01):
anything else. Please, yeah, I have a few questions, so please.

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
First of all, I did want to state that, you know,
I'll yes, this is true. There are people, you know
who will uh bline and will say that they're innocent
when they're not. You know, I just went over this
recently with a person who is innocent on death Row
where I was discussed in the video. Look, I know
that people will claim the innocent when they're not, and

(01:00:27):
there are some skeptics. I went to the skeptics. I'll
just say they're straight up room where they'll say to
me and other avcts, well, everyone in prison is just
ask them which one I'll say, which one? I'll say,
first of all, we do our research too, no play
then brag about the crimes they did. But also, and

(01:00:51):
this is what I want to say when it comes
to you every person that again I advocate for myself, Jackie,
other advocates, we do our research. We don't just say,
oh you said you were NSC well okay, then uh,
you know, I mean it's important that we do our research.
And there have sadly been some people that have lies

(01:01:13):
and I said, I'm sorry, I can't help you, but
that is reality.

Speaker 5 (01:01:17):
That's reality. I mean, you know, you know, we got
to have prisons, you know, I mean you gotta have,
you know, But but you shouldn't want to lock up
citizens and innocent people or people who didn't do as
you say they did, just just just fill up to bed's,
you know, and ruined people's lives.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
And who are out there right now who should be
in prison, who are threats off right now? I'm like,
I want my tax dollars for them to be to
be used, for them to be in prison, not for
someone who's you know, such as yourself, who's been wrongly convicted.

Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
No, you do.

Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
Uh, that's waste of our tax dollars. And also, I'm
gonna be real. I just being I'm not trying to
be you know Debbie down here. I am being honest
at being put in prison for something you didn't do.
I remember I thought to myself in my twenties, I'm
just gonna sound ignorant. But I'm like, does that happen?

(01:02:19):
And then I started finding out us a few years ago, Oh,
this is common, this is very common, and I'm it
shook me to my core and that's what woke me
up and got me speaking out because I'm like, this
is where I'm gonna get real. And I'm like, I
can't imagine. I can't imagine being those shoes. And I'm like,

(01:02:40):
and this is when I found out that Okay, myself
and other advocats were like, they need their voices need
to be out there other because I mean, especially when
it comes to you know, interviewing you and others, no
one can tell your stories. You're talking about your case
is better than you can or else. I mean, how

(01:03:01):
else is it going to get out there? And people
need to know, Colin, people need to know. This was
an academic when it comes.

Speaker 5 (01:03:07):
To wrong for convictions, real talk, and it is. It's terrible,
you know. And I just hated I got caught up
in the web. I didn't. You couldn't have never told
me at a younger age that I was coming to prison, right,
You couldn't convinced me of that one.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
But what can we do to help you? Because I
go spring the word like this podcast that would help
a ton?

Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
Yeah, and you know, you know, Sarah, I know you
got your hands full because you're fighting death ros and
you got a lot going on. And I see that,
and like I said, and I really applied. You just
just taking the time out of your life to even
help guys like me. You know. You know, maybe someday
I'll get an opportunity to meet you. You know. Oh,

(01:03:58):
I love that, you know, and you know that would
be great. But at the same time, you know, I mean,
because your energy just seems right, and I just whatever
you think or wherever you see fit that where you
think that you can help me and if you need me,
whatever you need me to do, that I could possibly do.

(01:04:19):
It's not a lot I could do because I really
don't have any money. So if I did, i'd be
trying to spend everything I got alive. They gave you
two million today, I get them at two billion tomorrow
to get out of prison. Right, Yeah, you know, So
it's it's you know, so whatever you see fit, you know,
because your perspectives are different than mine, because you get

(01:04:40):
the outside glances going and I don't. You can see
things that I can't see. There are things that I
can see that you can't see from the inside, which
you'll never get to see, which which is good. But
at the same time, you know, you know, prison is
not for me. I know I've been in a long

(01:05:02):
I know I've been in a long time, but I've
yet to let prison get in my heart. I don't
do that. I don't let I've never subjected myself to
doing things in here that I couldn't wake up and
look at myself in the mirror, nice and be good
with me, Begod with God. So it's always been real,

(01:05:24):
it's always been serious with me. My fight is serious.
It's not just about me getting out of prison, though, Sarah.
Once you really understand that, it's about me getting out,
you know, getting out and being really effective, really effective,
doing things that that that's really going to help people
like me that's incarcerated. I know a lot of people,

(01:05:46):
and I've met a lot of people from Oklahoma down
to Louisiana prisons. I've been I've been surfing, I've been
seeing what's going on everywhere. I pay attention to a lot.
I really want to get my All in One Project,
the nonprofit organization. I really want to get it going.

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
I just yeh, could you tell me about that again
because I remember you mentioning that to me.

Speaker 5 (01:06:09):
Yeah, yes, I had sent you that one thing and
it just kind of it kind of tells you about
the where it talks about let's see right here, right here,
see what it is is also a group of guys,
the All in One Project. It is a grassroom membership
organization and it is dedicated to advocating for prison reform,

(01:06:32):
prisoner's rights, and prisoner serving long term sentences such as myself,
you know, the All in One Project. It is a
nonprofit organization where five to one C three certification funds
generated will be used the advanced prison reform, re entry programs, housing,
job placement, or forts members up on release. And that's
what we're basically, you know, currently we're litigating against the

(01:06:56):
State of Oklahoma regarding the violation of partner for old
board ammutation rules and statutes. We have a legal department
that that's what we're really good as a legal department.
We're currently in in litigation on that. Now. Get them
in to support the parole board because they're not even
following their own policies. Then and the All in One

(01:07:20):
Project will aggressively assistant agent inmates like myself that were
convicted before July first, nineteen ninety eight, including juvenile offenders
see when I came to prison, and those that was
incarstrated prior to July first, nineteen ninety eight in the
state of Oklahoma. When we came to prison, to the laws,

(01:07:41):
we have to do one third of our senates like
I do one third of my sentence. Then I go
before the parole board. Not know first stage and second stage.
I go before the parole board, and if they don't
give me paroles that year, then I go up every
year until I do get it, and then so and
then then those that were coustrated after July first, nineteen

(01:08:02):
ninety eight, they have to do eighty five percent of
their sentence. That's a new law that came after me,
and so what they did, and so they'll do eighty
five percent. So what happens is if you get a
thirty year sentence, you got to do twenty eight calendar years. Now.
But see that wasn't how the law was when I
got locked up. And so right now, what they did

(01:08:22):
in Oklahoma, they threw all of the guys like me,
those that were in coss crated prior to July first,
nineteen ninety eight, and just threw us all together with
the eighty five percents. And so now they got us,
they got us clock and they're doing eighty five percent.
And so you got guys like me that's already did

(01:08:43):
eighty five percent of their sentence, you know, like a
friend of mine, he just got out, Glenn Simmons. I
don't know if you heard about Glenn Simmons. He did
forty almost forty eight calendar years for a crime he
didn't do.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
No, I know that name sounds familiar.

Speaker 5 (01:08:59):
Yeah, Glenn Simmons here in Oklahoma. He's he's on this.
I sent you a flyer on your on your text
of All of One project and his name is he's
one of the executive members. Anyway, they awarded him eleven
point seven million dollars and then he also got that
one hundred and seventy five thousand from the state of
Oklahoma because they have a cat. He also has stage

(01:09:20):
four cancer. So but he's dealing with it. He's dealing
with it. These guys out there now, he's a real
good friend of mine. Then you have on there the
director of operations. His name is Darryl Wiggins. He's the
guy's real good friend of mine. He did thirty four
years murder one. He got out two years ago. He
just got his badge to come back inside to prison
for the All of One project. Who with me where

(01:09:42):
I'm at. He's gonna be my outside sponsor and we're
gonna be coming in trying to get you know, get
some recruits, get some sign ups. So if you have
any ideas, I'm a manager. My job is to get
this going. Really, you know, my thing is if you
have any ideas how I can generate my member ship,
what would be attacted for my membership. It starts with

(01:10:04):
the inside inmates, but it really is really for the
outside supporters. The inmates got a hold on a second,
Hold on second, let me see what this is no problem.
So like the out see back then she is actually
offender organization. But the offenders on the outside are the

(01:10:25):
ones that just left me in here, right, And instead
of him going back and getting in stuff out there
and getting in the drugs and you know, trying to
hustle get you know, we can do it all through
the all through this organization. You know, we can live
life and help people the same time, right, And I
believe that, and so and so these guys like like Glenn,

(01:10:49):
he got that little money, so he's been helping Durrell,
the director of operations, just stay afloat because you know
he's dryl Wiggins. He you know, my friend he got
out two years ago, but he been working at McDonald's.
He got a McDonald's job and a Popeye's job down
the street. Me each other dayshift, night shift, just you know,
keep busy. And then we also communicate, like, you know,

(01:11:12):
do take care of this. And I did a seminar
on the yard. I sent you that that thing on
your mail, right, But that's the seminar I did on
the yard for two weeks. And and so you know,
Jump was getting it going. You know, I'm getting the
web up I got a guy that's getting the web page.
He got people on our side try to get the
web page going, get it back up and going. We
had this going before Sarah. I had it going in

(01:11:35):
sixteen through twenty twenty, and in twenty twenty we had
an inmate get out. Well, she got out in twenty
sixteen and she became our manager of the all in
one project. She had her times. You came man, So
we shorted getting the donations. I did the same thing
I'm doing now, and I got all these donations in.
Then I had got a little money in. I dove
made the money to it. But anyway, she ran off

(01:11:55):
with all our money. We had nine thousand and six
hundred and something dollars in our account donations and you know,
and she ran off for all our money. Oh my gosh.
And so that happened in twenty twenty. She was with
us from sixteen to twenty twenty, and we had this going.
We had the organization going, it was going, you know,
got the teachers, everything was going good. I mean, oh,

(01:12:16):
it hurt me real tough because I was you know,
that was my everything, that was my baby, and she
did me like that. But then now she's my Facebook friend.
Now she send me a she want to be a friend.
And I ain't said nothing about the money, talk about
she got our tema. She's a lawyer now she got
her she went out of state, got her license. I
don't know, something like this about a month ago she
had sent me. So I was like, oh my god,

(01:12:36):
are you're serious? And then you acting like you know,
like you know, you took my money to go get
to go get your license. Really okay? But anyway, how
bless herself? Yeah, so so my things. So if there's
anything that you could enlighten me to later on or
send me information or help me anyway to get this going,

(01:12:59):
and we'll tell me a little points that I should do,
little things that I should do. You that would be amazing,
because this is what I'm gonna do when I get
out of prison. See this reason whant to do this
reform doing prison reform advocacy because this is what I've
been having to live for over thirty years. And so
therefore why wouldn't I go ahead and bring the good
back to this and change the way deals she does

(01:13:19):
business in Oklahoma and Department for Old Board. I got
time to do that I got time to get all
that done, and so that's that's what I'm gonna do.
And so I am aggressively trying to get out of
prison there right. And I know your heads is full.
I said this already, but hey, you wouldn't regret help

(01:13:40):
me get out of prison. I know I wouldn't. It
would be it would be your regret.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
I promise you No, I know it would not regret whatsoever.
And I do absolutely want to help, and that's what
we're doing. We're starting with this interview right here. We
will continue and I know there are people out there
who will want to help, and it starts with sharing
this podcast. I'm going to look up additional waste people

(01:14:07):
can help that will be in the description and as
well as information about the nonprofit. And we will be
of course keeping in touch about everything regarding being out prison,
nonprofit all that, and of course continuing to get the
word out. And so again I ask that everyone, uh

(01:14:31):
please share this podcast and also you'll say his name
and discuss the case and tell everyone, how did you
hear about Mormon Battle Senior? Check out this podcast. You're
not gonna believe it. This word of mouth, this helps
just I keep saying it helps more than you realize,
and everything's listening. You've been proof of that, and I

(01:14:55):
thank you all. And we're gonna keep going. We're gonna
help get Marrun out and keep spreading that word.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Don't be afraid of its. Side the cat foodstacks, not
every light is gone, and gut your baby.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Don't let a vain ice spik.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Keep it close to your heart.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
All love.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
The pressure's kind and drive you crazy because you right
to the madness in the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
It's all kind of van it's Shn't be afraid of
it side, be care foodstacks, not every lighting is gone,
and guide you.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna saw a highlight.
Peter Pan in real life, be living out my dreams,
come waking up, percent of four land, whole wrist, coming
up with ice, stealing shop. Never asked the price.