October 8, 2024 • 36 mins
In this impactful episode, Sarah sits down with her good friend Melissa Ann, a dedicated advocate fighting for justice for Andy McCauley Jr. In this conversation, Melissa Ann shares updates on Andy’s case, including the critical upcoming Oral Arguments Hearing happening this Wednesday. Together, they dive into the fight to get crucial DNA evidence tested, which could play a significant role in Andy's case.
You can support Andy by sending a polite fax to Honorable Judge Deborah McLaughlin, requesting DNA testing. Simply use GotFreeFax.com to send up to three free faxes per day to 304-558-1212.For more updates and to stay involved, follow these official accounts and resources:
You can support Andy by sending a polite fax to Honorable Judge Deborah McLaughlin, requesting DNA testing. Simply use GotFreeFax.com to send up to three free faxes per day to 304-558-1212.For more updates and to stay involved, follow these official accounts and resources:
- Melissa Ann on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Justicelynmelisa
- Official Andy McCauley Jr. Facebook Page: facebook.com/OfficialAndyMcCauleyJr
- Instagram: @officialandymccauleyjr
- Support Site: FreeAndyMcCauleyJr.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Show me the fraid of inside the care foodstone, Not
every light's gone, and cat you baby, don't let a
may ice bag keep me close to your host. Hello,
the TRESHI is kind of javy kazy because you are
to the man in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's all kinda.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Then it's show me a faded inside the care foodstades.
Not every ladn't gone, and guide you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna saw a highlight,
Peter Pan, real life, be living out my dreams. Come
waking up. It's in a four whole wrist covering up
with ice.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hello.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Welcome to Voices behind Bars. I'm your host, Sarah de Armist,
and I'm so excited to have my close friend runfl
convictions advocate and head advocate for Andie Musculing Junior. Melissa
and Melissa, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hey, hey, hi, here we are again.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
And just a little backstory. Amissa and I were introduced
by our good friend Demita. That's how we started talking
and I began researching Andy's case from there and a
little bit of inside I want to share with you all.
As we were texting and as I was looking up
(01:21):
this case at what plant, I said to her, do
you ever feel like you're just screaming into the void
and no one's listening? And she said, yes, and what's
the feeling I've been having for a while, and I
could relate. That really hit me hard. I'm like, oh,
I really need to get her on, you know. I
want to help her get that voice screaming out to
(01:46):
the void. I know how it feels.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I want to get her on.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
I want to get Andy on. And it just I'm
very thankful, very humbled that he agreed.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And so it's amazing because I still remember that day fresh,
because it was like I was, I was screaming out
into the void, and it was like, oh my gosh,
how come no one is seeing what's happened here? You know,
I couldn't understand why the jury didn't see what I saw.
So it was so nice to be able to have
(02:15):
his voice heard from the other side. And you know,
you were the first person to reach out to do
an interview with him, and you know, who even knew
that you could do an interview from the other side,
you know, So with him being able to get his
voice out there, it really really opened doors and people
heard it, you know, and That is what makes voiceless
behind bars so great, is the fact that nobody could
(02:37):
tell their story better than them. You say it all
the time, exactly, you know, and it worked. It works
because everybody was condemning him during after the trial and
after sentencing and everything, saying, oh, well, he must be guilty.
He was quiet, you know, he didn't say a word. Well,
he didn't show any emotion, he didn't do this, he
didn't do that. Well, first of all, it was during
COVID and he was wearing a big black mask, so
(03:00):
don't really know how much emotion you could show, and
he did cry. Different.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
He was also told by his lawyers, don't show emotion,
don't say they was told not to speak. I read
an arkle saying he chose not to speak, and I
SCRAMed to myself, No, his lawyers told him not.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
To exactly exactly, and they said, you know, just don't
show emotions, don't talk, don't do any of that. So anyway,
he basically was condemned for not taking the stand, which
as an American, you have the right to remain silent.
You don't have to testify. So he was told not
(03:41):
to and when he found out that he can actually
say something. You know, it was it was good because
you know, with everybody saying, oh, well he's not talking,
he's not talking, He's like, but I wanted to talk.
So thank you so much for having him on the
show and everything. And I do know that we recently
posted your first interview with Andy. The sound clips are
(04:08):
posted and also on the actual podcast on iHeart. It's
there too, so if anybody ever wants to go back
and listen to that, you can go listen to it
on iHeart. Which so but we're so thankful and everything that,
you know, to meet Damida and from me to meet
you through Demita. She still remember the day she reached
(04:30):
out to me and said, hey, look, you know this,
my friend Sarah wants to know if you know you
can be interviewed and this, that and the other. And
I'm you know, I've never been interviewed for anything except
a job.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's just like, uh okay, but you know they both
be right, you know, thank you. So you know it
is the way it is now and it's thanks to
you being able to open doors. Hearing his voice from
the other side, it really helped. And anything that can
the word out there about this case because there's just
(05:03):
so much wrong in it. And you know, so.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
When you first oh got out about this case, it was,
you know, where it worked lunch break, Court TV was on, Oh,
could you tell us about that wonderful Court TV.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I used to watch this Court TV all the time,
and I can honestly say that ever since this case,
I have not turned Court TV on at all. I
was disgusted. First off, I was covering a shift for
someone I wasn't even supposed to be working that shift,
and I went into the break room and I'm like, hey, guys,
(05:39):
what you watching. They're like, you know, they told me
about a little bit about the court case. I missed
the first portion and had to go back and watch
it because I kind of came in the middle. And
so every day for lunch I was watching that and
then when it got down to the verdict, I was like, unbelievable.
There's just no way. I mean, there's just such a
multitude of things that are wrong in the case. And
(06:02):
having a background in medical and understanding blood and all that,
it's it made zero sense to me how there could
be DNA from an unknown female under the fingernails and
they don't test it any further because it's not male,
So why do they not care who this belongs to?
(06:23):
So that was huge red flags and then two to
three male DNA Andy excluded all this right there on
her bed and a family member's semen, which the judge
did not allow him the court because she said it's
a murder case, not a rape case. So I don't know,
like I always say, I don't know what planet. Semen
(06:44):
on a bed of a murder victim is not evidence,
but you know, hey, Ry, maybe that's how they do
it in West Virginia. I don't know. It doesn't sound
right to me, but you know, being that I that
I saw all this stuff, you know, I became interested
in the case and I did not stop thinking about
like how our system could do that. And I've watched
(07:04):
so many trials twenty something years ago, I was watching
Cork TV and Nancy Grace and all kinds of stuff,
you know, and this here just struck me as this
is wrong. So I reached out to his brother on
Facebook and said, look, I just want to like offer
him my support. So I never talked to anybody in jail.
I've said this before that he told me, you know,
(07:25):
how to get in touch with him. I got in
touch with him and I said, hey, look, it was
a day after his sentencing. I believe, and I said,
you know, I just want to let you know that
I believe in your innocence and I support you and that.
So then I began to talk to him periodically, and
he was teaching me about his case without telling me
(07:45):
too much about his case, you know. And I guess
he just started to trust me and saw that I
was not out to trick or deceive or twist his
words the way that the public was and court he was.
So I went ahead and started studying his case. He
let me read the transcripts and all the different things
and the elements to come with the case. And as
(08:08):
I went further into it, there were so many more
red flags that even he didn't see, you know, And
I'm like, why didn't they do this, why didn't they
do that? And how come that's there? That's weird, you know.
And there's just so many different elements in the police reports,
the pictures, images, everything, so but the number one thing
that stands out to me is the DNA from a
(08:29):
female and the two to three males and the Femen
on the bed. So yeah, that's how it started. And
I and you know, I really set a fire in
my heart for wrongful convictions. So it's not only Andy McCully,
it's just all wrongful convictions expactly with me. My heart
(08:50):
is really with the DNA ones. It's like, wow, you know,
like you've got the answer right here, and you're just
denying not only Andy, but the defendant. I mean, it's
the defendant victim. You know, you're denying them justice.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
True justice. Yeah, the killers there.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, And so it's just it's disgusting the way that is.
But you know, and at the time, I didn't know
what I could do about it. You know, I thought,
you know, that's so big. What anybody would think. Why
a lot of people don't step up is because I think,
oh my gosh, it's like the government, it's so big.
How is little me going to do anything? And then
(09:29):
I guess it's just a fire started burning in me.
And I and you know, my data has always told
me hanging around people that you want to be like
and then you'll become that. And I started watching advocates
and I started seeing the way they do things. The
way they say things. I'm just learning the ropes by
watching and listening. And you know, here I am.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
You're amazing. You're such a strong advocate, such a strong voice,
the videos that can do, the posts that you do,
everything helps so many people. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Thank you. I really believe that advocacy you have to
hit it from all angles. You in person, fighting for it.
You know, Oh gosh, you got to show up in person,
which is sometimes hard. You have to post, you have
to talk to people. You need like all these different
angles to hit it from because people are the learners
(10:23):
in different ways. Some people learn visually, some people learn auditory.
So you want to be able to pick up every
learner that you can along the way so that they
can understand what's happening in the world right right.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And when you say everyone, you know, I keep remind.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
My followers about this, and I think it's important.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Everyone's voice matters, sharing those signings, sharing those petitions, sharing videos,
recommending people to my podcast, her podcast Naked Truth to
Chick the Mic, a podcasts we co host together national
public awareness recommending them to admit a different like a podcast.
(11:08):
All advocates also cases that they heard about, like, hey,
did you hear about to to be gruder and because
junior Jesse Dreyfus around. Oh, but you need to check
this out. All that helps all of you do. So
please underestimate the power of your voice. Just share alike,
it goes a long way. I cannot say that.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, it's definitely something that you have to keep relevant
every day. And advocacy is definitely work because you know,
I work a regular job. I'm gone all day and
it's like in between time. You have to keep it flowing.
You have to keep it relevant because the human nature is,
oh that was so yesterday, you know, to be like, yeah,
I haven't seen anything on that. Let's move on the hurricane.
(11:52):
Oh well that's over. Let's just move on to the
next best thing. You know, So you have to keep
it in the headlines. You have to let everybody know,
like this is still happening. It didn't go away.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Yeah, and you know, wrongful convictions happen every day. I'm
not exaggerating. At least two people there wrongfully convicted. Good
news is two twenty four was the highest number of exonerations.
So we're making progress and we are you know, more
aware of rodful convictions than we started up when we
(12:26):
first start advocating. People do care, they really do. Just
we do have a long way to go. But I
believe in the fire. I believe in the cause. I
believe in others, and you know, we'll we're not only
going to get Andy out Timothy, so many people. And
so then as you keep going, yeah, and I.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Had no idea even what a wrongful conviction was. I thought, like,
is this, like, what is that words? Like, I don't
know what that is. I thought, if people get convicted,
they get convicted, I mean, and that's it. It's wipe
your hands and you move on with your life. That's
like most people think that, like they think that the
cops have it under control. They think that the court's
handling it, and they don't really dive in and see
what's really going on behind the scenes. And you know,
(13:10):
understanding that this is a real money making thing, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Are tax dollars stay in Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
M and and and so that's why I'm livid at
the fact that they're not testing this DNA, you know,
and every minute that clicks by, taxpayers are paying for
this and they and then you know they're yeah, yeah, Melissa, whatever, whatever.
You know what, it's right there. The proof is right there.
Look at your tax dollars where they're going and this.
(13:38):
You know, a lot's happened since the last time I
talked to you. And you know we'll go over that
here in a few but tax dollars, you know, it
makes a difference, and you've got to fight. So what's right?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
You got to think about the educational system that could
go into our education system, that could be going to infrastructure. Uh,
because you're not getting a right. That's why all of
our tax are being wasted on that on death row.
So you should be angry because and it affects us all.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah, and you know it's to me. They don't teach
this in school. This is stuff they don't teach in school.
They don't teach you like about the death penalty. They
don't teach you about what's going to happen if you
get in trouble and you know you have to get
out of prison. They don't teach you that. And from
what I hear, they're not even teaching people what to
do like when they get out of prison. These great
(14:28):
re entry groups and stuff are coming forward, and they're
doing things about it, but they're not really pushing it
hard on the inside from what I hear.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Oh no, not at all. Another reason why being someone's
lifeline know of their advocates help so much. Compute and
say okay, well when you get out of the our
re entry program wants you to get involved with and.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yes, yeah, that was so great to network with people
and to say, okay, well I might advocate for their
wrongfully convicted, but that person over there handles re entry,
and that person over there handles like mental health, and
then you have this like big bucket of resources for
them that's just like, oh well, you could just pull
it out of a hat and be like, well you're
(15:12):
gonna need this, this, this is this, you know, and
you can help them get on their feet and understand
you know that they are going to be okay, they
don't have to go through that revolving door and go
right back to prison. Right.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
So, and I would to ask about Andy the person.
First of all, when he first moved to Berkeley Springs. Unfortunately,
he was not like Lessie No, No, he was from Baltimore.
He was you know, city boys, and they're all country
(15:48):
boys and you.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Know, he didn't have such a problem with the women.
You know, apparently they all liked him. And I don't
know if it was the guys didn't like him. They're
jealous and I don't know what the problem was, but
he had a problem with him from the time he
got there.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And growing gulf. You know, he was very close to
his family. Family has always been very important to him.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yes, he he's his dad and his stepmom he calls
her mom too. They are very close with him. His
mom loves his mom. He's got a brother, he has
a sister, griss and Peace. She just passed away. It
was awful, you know, So he was very very close
(16:33):
with them. He has multiple cousins, you know, he was
very close with them. They there are specific cousins that
have just like abandoned him, like literally abandoned him, and
he knows who they are and it breaks his heart.
But they completely stepped out when things got dark, and
(16:53):
you know, and it's sick because they owed him all
this money. They could have helped him with attorney sees
and you know, and it's money that he gave to them.
You know that they owed him and they could have
you know, easily helped, but they didn't. They stepped out
of the picture. And that's okay, you know, that's okay
if they're worried about the public perception of them and
and you know everything that it was a high profile case,
(17:13):
so yeah, that's fine. But you know, he knows. So
it's heartbreaking because it did break his heart. You know,
he's lost some relatives while he's been in there, you know,
due to death, his sister, some aunts, you know, and
he grieved. You know, grieving doesn't stop when he gets
to prison, you know, for people that you loved before
you went in you know, so you know, he went
(17:36):
through that. It's it's been hard for him, you know,
knowing that he has only a select amount of family,
and you know, he's created this big thing of advocates
that support him. You know, that's where all his support
is is through that and the public. Now unfortunately it's
(17:59):
not so much the direct family, and that's sad, it's
really really sad. But he has a lot of support
from the public and from the beginning. In the beginning,
like shouting out into nothing, that was what it was.
And I can honestly tell you today that's not the case.
That is not the case at all. It things have changed,
(18:21):
things have changed, and there's so much support and he's
got thousands of followers on his Facebook and it's just
it's really gotten better. It's really gotten better as far
as support.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
And when it comes to Andy, and you know the
beginning of it, when you were advocating for him, all
I know, theop reception at the time was he's guilty.
He's guilty, So I have no doubt he's faced. We
all think that. Unfortunately every day all angry comments dms
(18:58):
that go a lot further than that. I'm not going
to give them the time of day going into detail,
but I just you can only imagine. So I'm turned
the beginning. You've got a lot of backlash.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yes, when I first started advocating for him, you know,
I got, oh my gosh, how could you stand up
for someone who's a murderer? I mean, and I was like,
I'm trying to tell you what the facts of the
case are, and it's so hard because I have all
these facts and all this documentation and everything to back
me up, but nobody would listen. And then gradually, as
(19:33):
I just kept speaking out and kept speaking up, and
you just keep showing up and fighting, and even if
no one believes you and nobody wants to hear you,
you just have to keep showing up and eventually somebody's
gonna be like, hm, take the time to actually read
what you're posting instead of being stuck in their heads
like they all they do is see the name, and
(19:54):
they associate it with whatever their point is, the narrative,
that's the proces cuter painted. And so I just keep
showing up and keep showing up, and eventually I see
these names that keep liking and liking and liking, and
I'm like, oh my gosh, this person used to be
on the other side and now they're they're actually like listening,
(20:14):
And I'm so grateful for that because it's it's so
nice to have people open their heart and actually think
with common sense and not just the rumor mill, the gossip,
the TV, the sensationalism, the you know, trial by media,
all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And I'm sort of my media is a real thing.
It happens more often than people realize. Just because the
media reports something to be true does not make it gospel.
They're going to print what shows.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yes, and it's sick and they sensationalize everything, even the victims,
and it's heart wrenching. And you know what Core TV
did in Annie McCauley Junior's case. It's disgusting what the
pro secutor and all of his staff and the police
officers did standing in front of the court van, smiling
(21:06):
like they just have one their kill. It's disgusting. It's tacky,
if anything, no class whatsoever. And yeah, I said that,
I don't care if people don't like it or not.
It were very tacky, tacky, tacky thing to do. And
there's no class, the class whatsoever, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And I'll like you, said, I stopped watching Court TV
after that. I'll like you. I have called them out
as well, and I have talked to close friends of mine.
Christian Coleman, friend of mine who was on the show recently.
We were having a conversation. I told him I didn't
think the injustice is still took it a lower And
then I saw a man's wrong conviction aired on Live
(21:48):
TV and I shared with them a little bit about
Andy and he was heartbroken.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's really really sad that it breaks my heart anything,
you know. I think to myself, how hard is it
to test your name. You know, yeah, the state has
the access to do that. I think that wrongful convictions.
If there is DNA involved that can point to the
person's innocence, this should be at the front of the line.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
And also if you know, the district attorney all in
Saint Louis County played this out off about Marcellus Williams
resident power right before the executed.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
He was like, look, there's just a.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Doubt all for my nisens before the irreversible happens, we
should stop. And that's true. If there's a doubt of
a person's innfence before execution, before a conviction, there's just
a doubt, you need to stop and go, Okay, look
at this and start, you know, take us take some
(22:55):
tenants you need. If you need to take a week,
two weeks, what just shouldn't be done just a few
hours the verdict. You take your time and go over everything.
And like I said, there's that doubt, you speak up
because that's a person's life in your hands, that's not
slipping to be taken lightly. And you ask all the
questions that come to your head. And because like I said,
(23:19):
there's just a doubt, you need to act on that
and because but his.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Case had DNA in it. Yeah, that's it's this is
a situation where it's like, there is a huge problem
in the United States of America. And I don't know
at what point the public's not gonna you know, at
what point are they outraged? At what point are they
not going to say enough is enough? If it takes
(23:48):
like your freaking child, your husband, your mom, your dad
having to go through this because most people don't have
the money to fight something like this.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Oh yeah, and you're going, yeah, exactly, we're paying for
it with our tax dollars and we're paying for oh, hunt,
well over one hundred thousand people. Wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
If if I could tell you one day, I will
pull the number out. I have the billion sheets for
Annie McAuley Junior's trial. It was I mean, you could
have bought a beautiful, beautiful home, probably in California with
the amount that his trial cost. I went through it
the numbers, and to put it through a whole nother trial.
(24:38):
When the DNA evidence is right there, that's going to
be the public that's going to pay for that. So
why not just test the DNA to find out who
the real person is?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
And how there are cases where there's not DNA evidence,
which that should I mean, that should be looked down,
immediately tested, get this on the road. I agree with
you completely. I wanted to mention real quick that you
know when you're a member of the jury especially, but
if you're researching a case and they're lying on hearsay evidence,
(25:13):
they're lying solely on the defendants testimony, there's absolutely nothing
to them linking to the case. Again, that should be
a red flag, especially the jury and those that are reading,
so you know that there's nothing connecting them to the crime.
You really need to take that seriously.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yes, And I really believe that scientific I mean the
scientific evidence. It's the DNA. I mean, I don't know
how else to describe DNA to people that don't know
what that is. And I really feel like jury's sometimes
don't know what DNA is. But the easiest way that
I can describe to where like the basic public person
(25:56):
would understand it, and how I would understand it if
I knew nothing about it, would be if somebody explained.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
It to me like this.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
When you're born, God gives you a blueprint for your
life and your identity, and that is DNA. It's everything
that you are and who you are blueprinted. No copies
can be made just you. And that is why it
(26:23):
is so important that when DNA is left behind, that
is the blueprint for another person, right, and there is
a blueprint that God gave someone and that blueprint is
the identity of another person that's underneath rnails. And Andy
Coley Jr. Was excluded. It was female DNA. So that
(26:46):
is how I describe because people I don't I think
they think too far out with the science of it
and they don't understand the simplicity of like DNA is
who you are.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
DNA doesn't lie and doesn't lie well moving forward, Unfortunately
they set the DNA. We still got to get that done.
I will leave that to JU just contact information so
we can keep saying to test that DNA. We need
to know who did it.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
But what else do we have moving for?
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Because we got something exciting happening.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Well, we have something really exciting happening, but we also
have something that's it's going to become more of a fight.
As September twenty seventh, Judge Deborah McLaughlin from Morgan County
denied having the blood from an unknown female under the
nails of the victim. And I'm saying victim because she's
(27:42):
a miner and I don't want to say her name.
It's not out our disrespect. She denied testing it. She's
saying that he's already in an appeal process and has representation,
which is not true. Well, the courts are different. He's
filing this in the Low not the Supreme Court, so
(28:02):
that's different. And he is doing it pro se, so
he doesn't have representation for the DNA. He was requesting
representation for the DNA, so we wanted to get that tested.
She denied it. We already have it filled out the
appeal that's going in the mail tomorrow. And so we're
gonna fight it. We're gonna keep fighting. We're coming back,
(28:23):
and we're not going anywhere. So she might as well
get used to fighting back. I mean, it's not gonna
go away, and he's not gonna roll over and show
his belly. That's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen.
So and I suggest anyone who has a wrongful conviction
in this fighting, don't ever give up, and don't ever
(28:46):
roll over and show them your belly and surrender because
I'm telling you right now, if you keep fighting, look
at all these other cases where people got out. You've
got Matthew Baker Junior, You've got Carrie Cookies. I mean,
it just goes on and on. People are getting exonerated
and just don't give up, you know, and.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Being I'm not guilty despite the odds, because of the advocacy,
because people were drawing attention to their names and saying, Okay,
this person didn't do it. He she you know, they
didn't do it, and that helps, and that and that
helps during the person's trial, like Matthew Baker, and I'll
(29:25):
so like I said, word of mouth, your voice works. Wow.
Once he got upcoming. God, just because Jesse's talked about
this about the oral arguments.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah. One more thing about the DNA though, even though
we haven't, even though she denied it. I don't want
anyone to be hopeless that this isn't going to get tested,
because it will. It's just a matter of time and
it's a matter of fighting for it. I'm really curious though,
as to why the parents of the victim haven't come
(29:59):
forward and said test because it is DNA from a
strange person. So I have to bring that to the forefront,
because that is a really really big red flag to me,
the fact that the judge number one would deny it,
the families not speaking up and saying, hey, what a
great idea, let's maybe find out who the all that is.
You know, I kind of find that to be weird.
But moving on, the oral arguments for Andy McCully junior
(30:23):
are going to be on October ninth. We are having
a rally after the hearing at twelve pm. There will
be lots of people there who also are facing wrongful convictions,
excessive sentencing. Family speakers, organizations that champion great causes so
(30:43):
will be there and you'll get to hear stories of
people who are fighting these same battles and it's big.
It's happening all over and there will be people flying
in from other states, driving from other states. They will
be there to speak and to participate. So I'm really
excited about that. That's how you hear this Wednesday coming up.
(31:04):
So that's the big event that we've been waiting for.
The Rule nineteen argument for any mccullay junior means that
there was either insufficient evidence or misuse or narrow use
of law. By the lower court, which is the Circuit
court Morgan County Court. So the Supreme Court sees something
wrong with the case and this is based on assignment
(31:26):
of assignments of error on his appeal. So I do
have to give kudos to his attorney. I mean, he
didn't appear to be doing the best job when he
was in court, but he was smart enough to get
it to an oral argument, so he must have known
something that he was doing, so I have to give
him credit where credit is due. Absolutely, he got it
to an oral argument. And you know, the Supreme Court
(31:48):
just could have signed out like it does on all
the other ones, saying no, nope, denied, but they didn't
do that, and that is what.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Makes sense real.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yes, it's extremely rare in West Virginia in this situation,
so I'm super excited to find out what it is.
And the thing is is that it's only gonna be
ten minutes each side on the rule of nineteen, so
they don't have very long to plead their case. That
we don't know what they're going to ask. Even the
(32:16):
attorneys don't know. But Andy's attorney said he'll know within
a minute when once they start asking, he'll know what
it is, so let's just shoot up, show up and
see what happens.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Right, yep, and exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
And for those of you who can't make it, we
will be live streaming yet. I'll be live streaming yet
on all my Instagram it's there only I T S
S A R A H O N L Y and Melissa.
Where can they continue to keep up David updates?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You could go to www dot free, Andy McCully junior
dot com. You could follow Melissa Ann on Facebook Official
Andy McCully junior on TikTok and also on Instagram, and
then of course National Public Awareness. We always have updates
on everything. The great advocate people that really really step
(33:11):
up for the wrongfully convicted. You know, they've got lots
of people that they're advocating for and they're still taking applications.
We don't take any sex cases though, but we are
there to advocate and to help put publicity, education and
advocacy all out there on the forefront so that people
have that. You know, and a lot of people cause
(33:32):
you think back years and years ago to when people
sat in prison and like the advocacy like this didn't.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Exist, Like.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
It's like you're there, that's it, You're done. I mean,
they didn't have tablets where they can send their advocate message,
you know, It's like you have to send out a
letter and who knows if they got it. So I'm
super proud of all the advocates and everyone and all
the people who follow my Facebook, Andy Facebook, National Public Awareness,
your Facebook, any place that you're learning about this happening.
(34:02):
I'm so thankful that you're doing that because it really
needs to get out there. And I'm just not blowing
smoke up your ass. I'm letting you know this is happening. Please,
if you don't know much about it, start reading about
wrongful convictions, start reading about these executions that are happening.
And these people are innocent. So just educate yourself. And
(34:23):
if you have questions about it, feel free to reach
out to me. I'll be happy to answer them. So
with Sarah, and that's what public awareness, We're all happy
to you know, teach you, let you learn, and if
you want to be an advocate, to come on, come
on down.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Exactly and you were we want we welcome your questions,
we really do. We all we understand a little little skepticism.
We're here to like I said, those questions where you
can find out more info, and we do want you
to do your own research. And like you said, you
want to be an advocate. We want to help. We
(34:57):
need it as many people as possible.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
You can never And Andy is extremely thankful for anyone
who has been following his page or following his story
at all and showing support. He wanted me to let
everybody know he's thankful for that. And he's he's anxious,
of course, because this is coming up and it's been
something you know, that's all he has time to think about,
(35:21):
you know, so he's super anxious about it. I'm anxious
because I finally get to hang out with you. So
I'm super excited about that. Yes, So I just to
be there and everything is really exciting to me, because,
you know, to advocate, that's where it's at is when
you can show up in person and finally like make
that that physical connection to the case and to what's happening.
(35:43):
You know, I could shout it from a million miles away,
but I'm so thankful for the opportunity to be able
to come and be there with the advocates and you
know bring good vibes to the situation. I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
I'm excited too, Melissa. Thank you for coming on. You
won't make sure to update everyone afterwards and along the
way until he is freed. So like I said, we
will have you back on. Thank you again, and everyone
keep spreading that word.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Show me afraid of it side. Be care for Starcke,
not every light is gone. And Caty baby, don't let
him vain iron Spike, keep it close to your house.
I love the pressure's kind of shove you kazy because
you as to the manness in the morning. It's all
(36:34):
kind of n It's showing me a fraid of it's side.
Be care for Wodstackes, not every lie is gone.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And guide you. Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna
saw a highlight, Peter Pan, real life, be living out
my dreams. I'm waking up a cent of four land,
whole risk covered up in ice, stealing ship, never asked
the price,
Show me the fraid of inside the care foodstone, Not
every light's gone, and cat you baby, don't let a
may ice bag keep me close to your host. Hello,
the TRESHI is kind of javy kazy because you are
to the man in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's all kinda.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Then it's show me a faded inside the care foodstades.
Not every ladn't gone, and guide you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna saw a highlight,
Peter Pan, real life, be living out my dreams. Come
waking up. It's in a four whole wrist covering up
with ice.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hello.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Welcome to Voices behind Bars. I'm your host, Sarah de Armist,
and I'm so excited to have my close friend runfl
convictions advocate and head advocate for Andie Musculing Junior. Melissa
and Melissa, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hey, hey, hi, here we are again.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
And just a little backstory. Amissa and I were introduced
by our good friend Demita. That's how we started talking
and I began researching Andy's case from there and a
little bit of inside I want to share with you all.
As we were texting and as I was looking up
(01:21):
this case at what plant, I said to her, do
you ever feel like you're just screaming into the void
and no one's listening? And she said, yes, and what's
the feeling I've been having for a while, and I
could relate. That really hit me hard. I'm like, oh,
I really need to get her on, you know. I
want to help her get that voice screaming out to
(01:46):
the void. I know how it feels.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I want to get her on.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
I want to get Andy on. And it just I'm
very thankful, very humbled that he agreed.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And so it's amazing because I still remember that day fresh,
because it was like I was, I was screaming out
into the void, and it was like, oh my gosh,
how come no one is seeing what's happened here? You know,
I couldn't understand why the jury didn't see what I saw.
So it was so nice to be able to have
(02:15):
his voice heard from the other side. And you know,
you were the first person to reach out to do
an interview with him, and you know, who even knew
that you could do an interview from the other side,
you know, So with him being able to get his
voice out there, it really really opened doors and people
heard it, you know, and That is what makes voiceless
behind bars so great, is the fact that nobody could
(02:37):
tell their story better than them. You say it all
the time, exactly, you know, and it worked. It works
because everybody was condemning him during after the trial and
after sentencing and everything, saying, oh, well, he must be guilty.
He was quiet, you know, he didn't say a word. Well,
he didn't show any emotion, he didn't do this, he
didn't do that. Well, first of all, it was during
COVID and he was wearing a big black mask, so
(03:00):
don't really know how much emotion you could show, and
he did cry. Different.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
He was also told by his lawyers, don't show emotion,
don't say they was told not to speak. I read
an arkle saying he chose not to speak, and I
SCRAMed to myself, No, his lawyers told him not.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
To exactly exactly, and they said, you know, just don't
show emotions, don't talk, don't do any of that. So anyway,
he basically was condemned for not taking the stand, which
as an American, you have the right to remain silent.
You don't have to testify. So he was told not
(03:41):
to and when he found out that he can actually
say something. You know, it was it was good because
you know, with everybody saying, oh, well he's not talking,
he's not talking, He's like, but I wanted to talk.
So thank you so much for having him on the
show and everything. And I do know that we recently
posted your first interview with Andy. The sound clips are
(04:08):
posted and also on the actual podcast on iHeart. It's
there too, so if anybody ever wants to go back
and listen to that, you can go listen to it
on iHeart. Which so but we're so thankful and everything that,
you know, to meet Damida and from me to meet
you through Demita. She still remember the day she reached
(04:30):
out to me and said, hey, look, you know this,
my friend Sarah wants to know if you know you
can be interviewed and this, that and the other. And
I'm you know, I've never been interviewed for anything except
a job.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's just like, uh okay, but you know they both
be right, you know, thank you. So you know it
is the way it is now and it's thanks to
you being able to open doors. Hearing his voice from
the other side, it really helped. And anything that can
the word out there about this case because there's just
(05:03):
so much wrong in it. And you know, so.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
When you first oh got out about this case, it was,
you know, where it worked lunch break, Court TV was on, Oh,
could you tell us about that wonderful Court TV.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I used to watch this Court TV all the time,
and I can honestly say that ever since this case,
I have not turned Court TV on at all. I
was disgusted. First off, I was covering a shift for
someone I wasn't even supposed to be working that shift,
and I went into the break room and I'm like, hey, guys,
(05:39):
what you watching. They're like, you know, they told me
about a little bit about the court case. I missed
the first portion and had to go back and watch
it because I kind of came in the middle. And
so every day for lunch I was watching that and
then when it got down to the verdict, I was like, unbelievable.
There's just no way. I mean, there's just such a
multitude of things that are wrong in the case. And
(06:02):
having a background in medical and understanding blood and all that,
it's it made zero sense to me how there could
be DNA from an unknown female under the fingernails and
they don't test it any further because it's not male,
So why do they not care who this belongs to?
(06:23):
So that was huge red flags and then two to
three male DNA Andy excluded all this right there on
her bed and a family member's semen, which the judge
did not allow him the court because she said it's
a murder case, not a rape case. So I don't know,
like I always say, I don't know what planet. Semen
(06:44):
on a bed of a murder victim is not evidence,
but you know, hey, Ry, maybe that's how they do
it in West Virginia. I don't know. It doesn't sound
right to me, but you know, being that I that
I saw all this stuff, you know, I became interested
in the case and I did not stop thinking about
like how our system could do that. And I've watched
(07:04):
so many trials twenty something years ago, I was watching
Cork TV and Nancy Grace and all kinds of stuff,
you know, and this here just struck me as this
is wrong. So I reached out to his brother on
Facebook and said, look, I just want to like offer
him my support. So I never talked to anybody in jail.
I've said this before that he told me, you know,
(07:25):
how to get in touch with him. I got in
touch with him and I said, hey, look, it was
a day after his sentencing. I believe, and I said,
you know, I just want to let you know that
I believe in your innocence and I support you and that.
So then I began to talk to him periodically, and
he was teaching me about his case without telling me
(07:45):
too much about his case, you know. And I guess
he just started to trust me and saw that I
was not out to trick or deceive or twist his
words the way that the public was and court he was.
So I went ahead and started studying his case. He
let me read the transcripts and all the different things
and the elements to come with the case. And as
(08:08):
I went further into it, there were so many more
red flags that even he didn't see, you know, And
I'm like, why didn't they do this, why didn't they
do that? And how come that's there? That's weird, you know.
And there's just so many different elements in the police reports,
the pictures, images, everything, so but the number one thing
that stands out to me is the DNA from a
(08:29):
female and the two to three males and the Femen
on the bed. So yeah, that's how it started. And
I and you know, I really set a fire in
my heart for wrongful convictions. So it's not only Andy McCully,
it's just all wrongful convictions expactly with me. My heart
(08:50):
is really with the DNA ones. It's like, wow, you know,
like you've got the answer right here, and you're just
denying not only Andy, but the defendant. I mean, it's
the defendant victim. You know, you're denying them justice.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
True justice. Yeah, the killers there.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, And so it's just it's disgusting the way that is.
But you know, and at the time, I didn't know
what I could do about it. You know, I thought,
you know, that's so big. What anybody would think. Why
a lot of people don't step up is because I think,
oh my gosh, it's like the government, it's so big.
How is little me going to do anything? And then
(09:29):
I guess it's just a fire started burning in me.
And I and you know, my data has always told
me hanging around people that you want to be like
and then you'll become that. And I started watching advocates
and I started seeing the way they do things. The
way they say things. I'm just learning the ropes by
watching and listening. And you know, here I am.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
You're amazing. You're such a strong advocate, such a strong voice,
the videos that can do, the posts that you do,
everything helps so many people. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Thank you. I really believe that advocacy you have to
hit it from all angles. You in person, fighting for it.
You know, Oh gosh, you got to show up in person,
which is sometimes hard. You have to post, you have
to talk to people. You need like all these different
angles to hit it from because people are the learners
(10:23):
in different ways. Some people learn visually, some people learn auditory.
So you want to be able to pick up every
learner that you can along the way so that they
can understand what's happening in the world right right.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And when you say everyone, you know, I keep remind.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
My followers about this, and I think it's important.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Everyone's voice matters, sharing those signings, sharing those petitions, sharing videos,
recommending people to my podcast, her podcast Naked Truth to
Chick the Mic, a podcasts we co host together national
public awareness recommending them to admit a different like a podcast.
(11:08):
All advocates also cases that they heard about, like, hey,
did you hear about to to be gruder and because
junior Jesse Dreyfus around. Oh, but you need to check
this out. All that helps all of you do. So
please underestimate the power of your voice. Just share alike,
it goes a long way. I cannot say that.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah, it's definitely something that you have to keep relevant
every day. And advocacy is definitely work because you know,
I work a regular job. I'm gone all day and
it's like in between time. You have to keep it flowing.
You have to keep it relevant because the human nature is,
oh that was so yesterday, you know, to be like, yeah,
I haven't seen anything on that. Let's move on the hurricane.
(11:52):
Oh well that's over. Let's just move on to the
next best thing. You know, So you have to keep
it in the headlines. You have to let everybody know,
like this is still happening. It didn't go away.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Yeah, and you know, wrongful convictions happen every day. I'm
not exaggerating. At least two people there wrongfully convicted. Good
news is two twenty four was the highest number of exonerations.
So we're making progress and we are you know, more
aware of rodful convictions than we started up when we
(12:26):
first start advocating. People do care, they really do. Just
we do have a long way to go. But I
believe in the fire. I believe in the cause. I
believe in others, and you know, we'll we're not only
going to get Andy out Timothy, so many people. And
so then as you keep going, yeah, and I.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Had no idea even what a wrongful conviction was. I thought, like,
is this, like, what is that words? Like, I don't
know what that is. I thought, if people get convicted,
they get convicted, I mean, and that's it. It's wipe
your hands and you move on with your life. That's
like most people think that, like they think that the
cops have it under control. They think that the court's
handling it, and they don't really dive in and see
what's really going on behind the scenes. And you know,
(13:10):
understanding that this is a real money making thing, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Are tax dollars stay in Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
M and and and so that's why I'm livid at
the fact that they're not testing this DNA, you know,
and every minute that clicks by, taxpayers are paying for
this and they and then you know they're yeah, yeah, Melissa, whatever, whatever.
You know what, it's right there. The proof is right there.
Look at your tax dollars where they're going and this.
(13:38):
You know, a lot's happened since the last time I
talked to you. And you know we'll go over that
here in a few but tax dollars, you know, it
makes a difference, and you've got to fight. So what's right?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
You got to think about the educational system that could
go into our education system, that could be going to infrastructure. Uh,
because you're not getting a right. That's why all of
our tax are being wasted on that on death row.
So you should be angry because and it affects us all.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah, and you know it's to me. They don't teach
this in school. This is stuff they don't teach in school.
They don't teach you like about the death penalty. They
don't teach you about what's going to happen if you
get in trouble and you know you have to get
out of prison. They don't teach you that. And from
what I hear, they're not even teaching people what to
do like when they get out of prison. These great
(14:28):
re entry groups and stuff are coming forward, and they're
doing things about it, but they're not really pushing it
hard on the inside from what I hear.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Oh no, not at all. Another reason why being someone's
lifeline know of their advocates help so much. Compute and
say okay, well when you get out of the our
re entry program wants you to get involved with and.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yes, yeah, that was so great to network with people
and to say, okay, well I might advocate for their
wrongfully convicted, but that person over there handles re entry,
and that person over there handles like mental health, and
then you have this like big bucket of resources for
them that's just like, oh well, you could just pull
it out of a hat and be like, well you're
(15:12):
gonna need this, this, this is this, you know, and
you can help them get on their feet and understand
you know that they are going to be okay, they
don't have to go through that revolving door and go
right back to prison. Right.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
So, and I would to ask about Andy the person.
First of all, when he first moved to Berkeley Springs. Unfortunately,
he was not like Lessie No, No, he was from Baltimore.
He was you know, city boys, and they're all country
(15:48):
boys and you.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Know, he didn't have such a problem with the women.
You know, apparently they all liked him. And I don't
know if it was the guys didn't like him. They're
jealous and I don't know what the problem was, but
he had a problem with him from the time he
got there.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And growing gulf. You know, he was very close to
his family. Family has always been very important to him.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yes, he he's his dad and his stepmom he calls
her mom too. They are very close with him. His
mom loves his mom. He's got a brother, he has
a sister, griss and Peace. She just passed away. It
was awful, you know, So he was very very close
(16:33):
with them. He has multiple cousins, you know, he was
very close with them. They there are specific cousins that
have just like abandoned him, like literally abandoned him, and
he knows who they are and it breaks his heart.
But they completely stepped out when things got dark, and
(16:53):
you know, and it's sick because they owed him all
this money. They could have helped him with attorney sees
and you know, and it's money that he gave to them.
You know that they owed him and they could have
you know, easily helped, but they didn't. They stepped out
of the picture. And that's okay, you know, that's okay
if they're worried about the public perception of them and
and you know everything that it was a high profile case,
(17:13):
so yeah, that's fine. But you know, he knows. So
it's heartbreaking because it did break his heart. You know,
he's lost some relatives while he's been in there, you know,
due to death, his sister, some aunts, you know, and
he grieved. You know, grieving doesn't stop when he gets
to prison, you know, for people that you loved before
you went in you know, so you know, he went
(17:36):
through that. It's it's been hard for him, you know,
knowing that he has only a select amount of family,
and you know, he's created this big thing of advocates
that support him. You know, that's where all his support
is is through that and the public. Now unfortunately it's
(17:59):
not so much the direct family, and that's sad, it's
really really sad. But he has a lot of support
from the public and from the beginning. In the beginning,
like shouting out into nothing, that was what it was.
And I can honestly tell you today that's not the case.
That is not the case at all. It things have changed,
(18:21):
things have changed, and there's so much support and he's
got thousands of followers on his Facebook and it's just
it's really gotten better. It's really gotten better as far
as support.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
And when it comes to Andy, and you know the
beginning of it, when you were advocating for him, all
I know, theop reception at the time was he's guilty.
He's guilty, So I have no doubt he's faced. We
all think that. Unfortunately every day all angry comments dms
(18:58):
that go a lot further than that. I'm not going
to give them the time of day going into detail,
but I just you can only imagine. So I'm turned
the beginning. You've got a lot of backlash.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Yes, when I first started advocating for him, you know,
I got, oh my gosh, how could you stand up
for someone who's a murderer? I mean, and I was like,
I'm trying to tell you what the facts of the
case are, and it's so hard because I have all
these facts and all this documentation and everything to back
me up, but nobody would listen. And then gradually, as
(19:33):
I just kept speaking out and kept speaking up, and
you just keep showing up and fighting, and even if
no one believes you and nobody wants to hear you,
you just have to keep showing up and eventually somebody's
gonna be like, hm, take the time to actually read
what you're posting instead of being stuck in their heads
like they all they do is see the name, and
(19:54):
they associate it with whatever their point is, the narrative,
that's the proces cuter painted. And so I just keep
showing up and keep showing up, and eventually I see
these names that keep liking and liking and liking, and
I'm like, oh my gosh, this person used to be
on the other side and now they're they're actually like listening,
(20:14):
And I'm so grateful for that because it's it's so
nice to have people open their heart and actually think
with common sense and not just the rumor mill, the gossip,
the TV, the sensationalism, the you know, trial by media,
all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And I'm sort of my media is a real thing.
It happens more often than people realize. Just because the
media reports something to be true does not make it gospel.
They're going to print what shows.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yes, and it's sick and they sensationalize everything, even the victims,
and it's heart wrenching. And you know what Core TV
did in Annie McCauley Junior's case. It's disgusting what the
pro secutor and all of his staff and the police
officers did standing in front of the court van, smiling
(21:06):
like they just have one their kill. It's disgusting. It's tacky,
if anything, no class whatsoever. And yeah, I said that,
I don't care if people don't like it or not.
It were very tacky, tacky, tacky thing to do. And
there's no class, the class whatsoever, you know.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
And I'll like you, said, I stopped watching Court TV
after that. I'll like you. I have called them out
as well, and I have talked to close friends of mine.
Christian Coleman, friend of mine who was on the show recently.
We were having a conversation. I told him I didn't
think the injustice is still took it a lower And
then I saw a man's wrong conviction aired on Live
(21:48):
TV and I shared with them a little bit about
Andy and he was heartbroken.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's really really sad that it breaks my heart anything,
you know. I think to myself, how hard is it
to test your name. You know, yeah, the state has
the access to do that. I think that wrongful convictions.
If there is DNA involved that can point to the
person's innocence, this should be at the front of the line.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
And also if you know, the district attorney all in
Saint Louis County played this out off about Marcellus Williams
resident power right before the executed.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
He was like, look, there's just a.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Doubt all for my nisens before the irreversible happens, we
should stop. And that's true. If there's a doubt of
a person's innfence before execution, before a conviction, there's just
a doubt, you need to stop and go, Okay, look
at this and start, you know, take us take some
(22:55):
tenants you need. If you need to take a week,
two weeks, what just shouldn't be done just a few
hours the verdict. You take your time and go over everything.
And like I said, there's that doubt, you speak up
because that's a person's life in your hands, that's not
slipping to be taken lightly. And you ask all the
questions that come to your head. And because like I said,
(23:19):
there's just a doubt, you need to act on that
and because but his.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Case had DNA in it. Yeah, that's it's this is
a situation where it's like, there is a huge problem
in the United States of America. And I don't know
at what point the public's not gonna you know, at
what point are they outraged? At what point are they
not going to say enough is enough? If it takes
(23:48):
like your freaking child, your husband, your mom, your dad
having to go through this because most people don't have
the money to fight something like this.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Oh yeah, and you're going, yeah, exactly, we're paying for
it with our tax dollars and we're paying for oh, hunt,
well over one hundred thousand people. Wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
If if I could tell you one day, I will
pull the number out. I have the billion sheets for
Annie McAuley Junior's trial. It was I mean, you could
have bought a beautiful, beautiful home, probably in California with
the amount that his trial cost. I went through it
the numbers, and to put it through a whole nother trial.
(24:38):
When the DNA evidence is right there, that's going to
be the public that's going to pay for that. So
why not just test the DNA to find out who
the real person is?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
And how there are cases where there's not DNA evidence,
which that should I mean, that should be looked down,
immediately tested, get this on the road. I agree with
you completely. I wanted to mention real quick that you
know when you're a member of the jury especially, but
if you're researching a case and they're lying on hearsay evidence,
(25:13):
they're lying solely on the defendants testimony, there's absolutely nothing
to them linking to the case. Again, that should be
a red flag, especially the jury and those that are reading,
so you know that there's nothing connecting them to the crime.
You really need to take that seriously.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yes, And I really believe that scientific I mean the
scientific evidence. It's the DNA. I mean, I don't know
how else to describe DNA to people that don't know
what that is. And I really feel like jury's sometimes
don't know what DNA is. But the easiest way that
I can describe to where like the basic public person
(25:56):
would understand it, and how I would understand it if
I knew nothing about it, would be if somebody explained.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
It to me like this.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
When you're born, God gives you a blueprint for your
life and your identity, and that is DNA. It's everything
that you are and who you are blueprinted. No copies
can be made just you. And that is why it
(26:23):
is so important that when DNA is left behind, that
is the blueprint for another person, right, and there is
a blueprint that God gave someone and that blueprint is
the identity of another person that's underneath rnails. And Andy
Coley Jr. Was excluded. It was female DNA. So that
(26:46):
is how I describe because people I don't I think
they think too far out with the science of it
and they don't understand the simplicity of like DNA is
who you are.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
DNA doesn't lie and doesn't lie well moving forward, Unfortunately
they set the DNA. We still got to get that done.
I will leave that to JU just contact information so
we can keep saying to test that DNA. We need
to know who did it.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
But what else do we have moving for?
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Because we got something exciting happening.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Well, we have something really exciting happening, but we also
have something that's it's going to become more of a fight.
As September twenty seventh, Judge Deborah McLaughlin from Morgan County
denied having the blood from an unknown female under the
nails of the victim. And I'm saying victim because she's
(27:42):
a miner and I don't want to say her name.
It's not out our disrespect. She denied testing it. She's
saying that he's already in an appeal process and has representation,
which is not true. Well, the courts are different. He's
filing this in the Low not the Supreme Court, so
(28:02):
that's different. And he is doing it pro se, so
he doesn't have representation for the DNA. He was requesting
representation for the DNA, so we wanted to get that tested.
She denied it. We already have it filled out the
appeal that's going in the mail tomorrow. And so we're
gonna fight it. We're gonna keep fighting. We're coming back,
(28:23):
and we're not going anywhere. So she might as well
get used to fighting back. I mean, it's not gonna
go away, and he's not gonna roll over and show
his belly. That's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen.
So and I suggest anyone who has a wrongful conviction
in this fighting, don't ever give up, and don't ever
(28:46):
roll over and show them your belly and surrender because
I'm telling you right now, if you keep fighting, look
at all these other cases where people got out. You've
got Matthew Baker Junior, You've got Carrie Cookies. I mean,
it just goes on and on. People are getting exonerated
and just don't give up, you know, and.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Being I'm not guilty despite the odds, because of the advocacy,
because people were drawing attention to their names and saying, Okay,
this person didn't do it. He she you know, they
didn't do it, and that helps, and that and that
helps during the person's trial, like Matthew Baker, and I'll
(29:25):
so like I said, word of mouth, your voice works. Wow.
Once he got upcoming. God, just because Jesse's talked about
this about the oral arguments.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah. One more thing about the DNA though, even though
we haven't, even though she denied it. I don't want
anyone to be hopeless that this isn't going to get tested,
because it will. It's just a matter of time and
it's a matter of fighting for it. I'm really curious though,
as to why the parents of the victim haven't come
(29:59):
forward and said test because it is DNA from a
strange person. So I have to bring that to the forefront,
because that is a really really big red flag to me,
the fact that the judge number one would deny it,
the families not speaking up and saying, hey, what a
great idea, let's maybe find out who the all that is.
You know, I kind of find that to be weird.
But moving on, the oral arguments for Andy McCully junior
(30:23):
are going to be on October ninth. We are having
a rally after the hearing at twelve pm. There will
be lots of people there who also are facing wrongful convictions,
excessive sentencing. Family speakers, organizations that champion great causes so
(30:43):
will be there and you'll get to hear stories of
people who are fighting these same battles and it's big.
It's happening all over and there will be people flying
in from other states, driving from other states. They will
be there to speak and to participate. So I'm really
excited about that. That's how you hear this Wednesday coming up.
(31:04):
So that's the big event that we've been waiting for.
The Rule nineteen argument for any mccullay junior means that
there was either insufficient evidence or misuse or narrow use
of law. By the lower court, which is the Circuit
court Morgan County Court. So the Supreme Court sees something
wrong with the case and this is based on assignment
(31:26):
of assignments of error on his appeal. So I do
have to give kudos to his attorney. I mean, he
didn't appear to be doing the best job when he
was in court, but he was smart enough to get
it to an oral argument, so he must have known
something that he was doing, so I have to give
him credit where credit is due. Absolutely, he got it
to an oral argument. And you know, the Supreme Court
(31:48):
just could have signed out like it does on all
the other ones, saying no, nope, denied, but they didn't
do that, and that is what.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Makes sense real.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yes, it's extremely rare in West Virginia in this situation,
so I'm super excited to find out what it is.
And the thing is is that it's only gonna be
ten minutes each side on the rule of nineteen, so
they don't have very long to plead their case. That
we don't know what they're going to ask. Even the
(32:16):
attorneys don't know. But Andy's attorney said he'll know within
a minute when once they start asking, he'll know what
it is, so let's just shoot up, show up and
see what happens.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Right, yep, and exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
And for those of you who can't make it, we
will be live streaming yet. I'll be live streaming yet
on all my Instagram it's there only I T S
S A R A H O N L Y and Melissa.
Where can they continue to keep up David updates?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You could go to www dot free, Andy McCully junior
dot com. You could follow Melissa Ann on Facebook Official
Andy McCully junior on TikTok and also on Instagram, and
then of course National Public Awareness. We always have updates
on everything. The great advocate people that really really step
(33:11):
up for the wrongfully convicted. You know, they've got lots
of people that they're advocating for and they're still taking applications.
We don't take any sex cases though, but we are
there to advocate and to help put publicity, education and
advocacy all out there on the forefront so that people
have that. You know, and a lot of people cause
(33:32):
you think back years and years ago to when people
sat in prison and like the advocacy like this didn't.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Exist, Like.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
It's like you're there, that's it, You're done. I mean,
they didn't have tablets where they can send their advocate message,
you know, It's like you have to send out a
letter and who knows if they got it. So I'm
super proud of all the advocates and everyone and all
the people who follow my Facebook, Andy Facebook, National Public Awareness,
your Facebook, any place that you're learning about this happening.
(34:02):
I'm so thankful that you're doing that because it really
needs to get out there. And I'm just not blowing
smoke up your ass. I'm letting you know this is happening. Please,
if you don't know much about it, start reading about
wrongful convictions, start reading about these executions that are happening.
And these people are innocent. So just educate yourself. And
(34:23):
if you have questions about it, feel free to reach
out to me. I'll be happy to answer them. So
with Sarah, and that's what public awareness, We're all happy
to you know, teach you, let you learn, and if
you want to be an advocate, to come on, come
on down.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Exactly and you were we want we welcome your questions,
we really do. We all we understand a little little skepticism.
We're here to like I said, those questions where you
can find out more info, and we do want you
to do your own research. And like you said, you
want to be an advocate. We want to help. We
(34:57):
need it as many people as possible.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
You can never And Andy is extremely thankful for anyone
who has been following his page or following his story
at all and showing support. He wanted me to let
everybody know he's thankful for that. And he's he's anxious,
of course, because this is coming up and it's been
something you know, that's all he has time to think about,
(35:21):
you know, so he's super anxious about it. I'm anxious
because I finally get to hang out with you. So
I'm super excited about that. Yes, So I just to
be there and everything is really exciting to me, because,
you know, to advocate, that's where it's at is when
you can show up in person and finally like make
that that physical connection to the case and to what's happening.
(35:43):
You know, I could shout it from a million miles away,
but I'm so thankful for the opportunity to be able
to come and be there with the advocates and you
know bring good vibes to the situation. I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
I'm excited too, Melissa. Thank you for coming on. You
won't make sure to update everyone afterwards and along the
way until he is freed. So like I said, we
will have you back on. Thank you again, and everyone
keep spreading that word.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Show me afraid of it side. Be care for Starcke,
not every light is gone. And Caty baby, don't let
him vain iron Spike, keep it close to your house.
I love the pressure's kind of shove you kazy because
you as to the manness in the morning. It's all
(36:34):
kind of n It's showing me a fraid of it's side.
Be care for Wodstackes, not every lie is gone.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And guide you. Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna
saw a highlight, Peter Pan, real life, be living out
my dreams. I'm waking up a cent of four land,
whole risk covered up in ice, stealing ship, never asked
the price,
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