September 26, 2024 • 32 mins
In this powerful episode of Voiceless Behind Bars, Sarah DeArmond sits down with Monika Shepherd, the dedicated advocate fighting for justice on behalf of Matthew Dorsey.
Matthew, sentenced to life in prison after a non-violent traffic stop, represents a troubling case of the flaws within our justice system. With no appeals left, his story highlights the devastating consequences of legal misrepresentation and an unforgiving system.
Monika shares crucial updates on the advocacy efforts aimed at reducing Matthew’s sentence, including the importance of reaching out to key political figures such as Texas Governor Greg Abbott, Senator Bryan Hughes, and Representative Cole Hefner. Monika emphasizes the need for public support and civic engagement, urging listeners to get involved by contacting these officials and checking their voter registration status, especially in states like Alabama where voter rolls have been purged.
Tune in to hear Matthew’s harrowing story, learn how you can help, and find out more about the steps being taken to bring him home. This episode is a call to action for anyone who believes in justice and the power of collective advocacy. Don't miss Sarah's compelling interview with Monika Shepard as they explore what it takes to fight for those who have been silenced by the system.Key Links:
Matthew, sentenced to life in prison after a non-violent traffic stop, represents a troubling case of the flaws within our justice system. With no appeals left, his story highlights the devastating consequences of legal misrepresentation and an unforgiving system.
Monika shares crucial updates on the advocacy efforts aimed at reducing Matthew’s sentence, including the importance of reaching out to key political figures such as Texas Governor Greg Abbott, Senator Bryan Hughes, and Representative Cole Hefner. Monika emphasizes the need for public support and civic engagement, urging listeners to get involved by contacting these officials and checking their voter registration status, especially in states like Alabama where voter rolls have been purged.
Tune in to hear Matthew’s harrowing story, learn how you can help, and find out more about the steps being taken to bring him home. This episode is a call to action for anyone who believes in justice and the power of collective advocacy. Don't miss Sarah's compelling interview with Monika Shepard as they explore what it takes to fight for those who have been silenced by the system.Key Links:
- Contact the Texas Governor's Office
- Senator Bryan Hughes, Smith County, District 1
- Representative Cole Hefner, District 5
- District Attorney Jacob Putman, Smith County
- Senator Phil King, Parker County, District 10
- House Representative Kay Granger, District 12, Parker County
- Check your voter registration status and register to vote: Rock the Vote
- Learn if you can restore your voting rights: Restore Your Vote
- Follow Matthew Dorsey’s story on TikTok and Facebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Zoon me the faided it side becare foodstacks, not every
lady's gone, and cat you baby, don't let it may
nice bag get be close to her host. I love
the prescions kinda javy kazy because you are to the
manes in the morning. It's all kinda then it's Jon
(00:22):
me a faded say the care foodstade, not every ladn't gone,
and guide you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna saw a highlight
Peter Pan, real life, be living out my dreams, come
waking up.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's in a four whole risk coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hello, welcome to the Boys and Flying Bars. I'm your host,
Sarah Dearman. I have Monica Shepherd on here. She is
the head advocate for Matthew Dorsey. So Monica, welcome to
the show.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Hey, Sarah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm very glad to have you as well. I'm excited
to this and all. When it comes to Matthew Dorsey,
we all recently had an episode about him, interviewed him
real sweet man and all could you go over all prime?
He was wrongully convicted of like definitely a release sentence.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Four sure thing. He was convicted for aggravated assault of
a public servant, and he did not touch the officer,
did not harm the officer, and the officer also testified
it with him on that and unfortunately was not not
(01:37):
adhered to, and he received a life sentence.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
And his attorney also pressured him to say that life sentence.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Or yes, unfortunately so and it was of course a
court appointed attorney, and with Matthew being as young as
he was, and then of course Hispian me not being
familiar with how the court works and fell in fell
into this very unfortunate guilty plea.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I know, that's the saying in school they teach us,
you know, just the system works. Everyone gets, you know,
the right to a fair trial, you get an attorney,
you know, if you can't afford women. But they don't
tell us the truth, which is that it was designed
to fail. Unless you're part of the elite, it's designed
to fail. And if they had told us the truth,
(02:33):
then I think we would have had more tools to
fight this a lot sooner.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I completely agree. I do feel like the education system
is doing a disservice as a community not revealing all
the laws and the court because if anyone is driving
on the roads or interacting with another person out in society,
(03:00):
you are at risk for getting in the same predicament.
It can happen to anyone and the.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Next thing you know, you think you're just hanging out
with someone talking and they all have other plans. They
pull up their gun shoot someone else. You had no
idea that was going to happen. But you're guilty of
phoney murder.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
That's right. That's exactly right, Sarah. And it really should.
It really should concern every single person listening that can
hear this podcast can really do some research on wrongful convictions,
and it should. It should scare everyone. Everyone should have
an urgency and changing this because it could be someone
(03:43):
in your family, it could be one of your friends,
it could be anybody. And so we really need to
see some change.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And we've got an election coming up, and I'm begging
you all pay attention to your all local elections and
not just every four years. Every time there's an election,
please vote. Please make sure I'll have everything in the description.
Make sure you have registered to vote. Check your registration
because some states have purged some voters. So if you
(04:17):
ever held all legal immigration card, a legal one, they
will have purged you, So make sure you're registered. If
you have to get reregistered, it'll be on there. And
please research every candidate everyone, because I've on both sides,
because you know, some who claim to be progressive have
their hands dirty with wrongfel convictions, saying goes for the right.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
So that's true. And to add to that, you know,
especially for our fellow selling, check your state laws. See
if you can vote after you have completely exhausted your
senate state, look into it and see if you can vote.
Because so many fellas think, Okay, well I'm a felon,
(05:02):
so I can't I can't vote. But that's not true.
That's not true in every state.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, their voting rights may have been restored, that's correct.
So with Matthew All, how long into his sentence was
it when he started becoming his pet advocate?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I met Matthew when he was at his fourteenth year
of his wrongful incarceration.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And how long has he been in there so far?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Now to this date, he's been in there for eighteen years.
Come November next month or month after next, it'll be
his nineteenth year.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And when he became his head advocate. What was it
like when you were looking into his case all and
just reading through it and doing the research. What was
that like.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
It took a long amount of time, just due to
the fact of the complexity of it all and the
timeline of it all, and learning more about the law
and how the verbiage of all of the court documents.
Of course, because I'm coming into it, I'm familiar with law,
(06:21):
but I'm not at all and an advocate for law,
so coming into it it was very difficult and intimidating,
but I dug my hills in. It took a long
time because of all the complexities of his case and
all the twists and turns at the courts and his
(06:43):
court appointed attorney. It got real messy.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
When I first started, all done the head advocate Lutnity
Bruer's case all he had to sit there and teach
me the law because it's a federal case. But still
all he had to teach me all the law all
and you know exactly what went wrong, what this means,
what that means. So that's how I started learning. And
then I started looking more stuff up and I was
(07:11):
and as the years have gone by, I found out
more and more what went wrong i'd been understanding more so,
like you say, it is complicated, what you get it,
you're good, but it takes a minute.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
It does, and then you have, you know, your epiphanies
where it actually clicks, and your comprehension and understanding of
how one thing affects the other, and then the entire
process of it all, you know, an entire timeline, like
what everything is in general. I've done a lot of youtubing,
(07:43):
a lot of googling. AI is my best friend now,
So it's it's progressive for sure. And I also my
core as well, my core learning was listening to Matthew.
He would let me ask the same question over and
(08:06):
over and over until I can memorize it until and
he would ask me questions about his case and everything.
So it was just it turned into a bonding experience,
to say the least. And it's it's astronomical that every
(08:27):
every single person that's underneath the law is not doing
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Well, I know, like, oh, they're like, for instance, the
district attorney, which you need to pay attention to because
that's the prosecutor when you vote. Their goal is to
get a high conviction, right, that's the goal. And you
can't get a high conviction rate without multiple convictions is
under your belt. And they will, I mean lawyers are
(08:58):
in on it to especially public defender, you know, where
they will tamper with evidence. They will withhold evidence. Ah
they will say oh yeah, speaking withholding evidence. But there
have been times, there are many times so it will
go missing quote or quotes around that. They will get witnesses,
(09:19):
you know, they tell you put them. If you don't
guessify and line, then we'll do this. It's and that's
where again you do your research and you find out
what happened with the pre trial uh. And you also
look into like a uh interviewing of course the person
(09:39):
as came for, but people around them, people uh like
for instance, anything that they said like okay, this is
where this went wrong. Okay, look up that law and
see exactly you know, business matchup? Is this align? Yes,
that law was broken in court and all that's all
(10:00):
of the things that led to the WAW convictions. And
like you said, it's it's complicated, but it's also and
again like you said, it's also very scary once starts clicking,
oh this went wrong? That went wrong?
Speaker 4 (10:14):
And how how are these court officials that we are
intrusting with their integrity. They're laying their hand on the Bible,
taking the oath, whatever that shall mean. At this time
and age, it seems like none of these individuals are
taking it seriously, and that should scare everyone. We have
no integrity it. The thing is, Sarah, there needs to
(10:43):
be conviction integrity units over every state, over every county,
making sure that all of these elected officials that we're
just checking a box and insting and trusting our trust.
Oh you know what, and and just putting this in
the listener's thoughts. You know, when you start voting, who
(11:08):
actually knows who they're voting for? When you start to vote.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Well, I started to vote, I didn't. I don't know,
I'll it took me years before I realized I need
to do my research. They have sample ballots online, that's.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Right, that's right. And so we have a lot of
the younger generation that that is wanting to be involved.
But and and really I guess older generation as well.
I shouldn't just say younger generation.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
You have it's pretty pomp vote.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
So yeah, yeah they are. And it gives me a
lot of hope because the younger generation is bringing in
some more compassionate logic. That was something else that I
wanted to touch on. It just seems as though once
these attorneys that are turning into politicians, that are turning
in into these high powers, they just seem to lose
(12:05):
their humanity, They seem to lose their integrity and and
what's right and common.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Sense because they want to all Like I've seen you
a politicians who you know, were all once, you know,
starting out good people, but you know, as they kept
getting more power, that's all they cared about. And I've
seen other politicians where they're held us this progressive, but
(12:38):
they never were. If if you look back to their
career as an attorney, they never were. And even though
they've done some good stuff now the media just cover
the horrible stuff they do. So that's Black keeps saying,
you've got to dig your research. You're right, But all
I wanted to ask when looking into his case, you know,
(13:00):
reading the transcripts, all I guess where were some of
the initial red flags.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Initial red flag, of course, is the witnesses that they
pulled in and and the witnesses being Matthew's girlfriend at
the time and her father, and how she completely switched
(13:29):
up on Matthew obviously, and then of course her father
threatening Matthew's life in the courtroom. What are we doing?
Why are so many laws are being broken? And it
wasn't until Matthews spent time while doing time in prison
(13:50):
really studying the law. He did for a very long time.
He knows the law very well now because you would
go sit in a law eye yep. So he's sitting
in the law library learning all of these things and
seeing and learning more so it's it makes it even
(14:10):
more painful in a sense because he's he's gaining the
knowledge of actually the depth of how bad they did
do him.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It's very painful because you know, I talked to a
lot of people wrongly convicted and they start hitting the
books and you know, absolutely I encourage that was there
in the law library and they start learning how badly
they were screwed over it. Like you said, it's heartbreaking
because it's it's it's just someone had walked through it before.
(14:42):
You know, they're attorney supposed to but if not their attorney,
just someone and in the legal profession saying okay, here
are your rights.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Yes, yes, and they're wrongfully convicted or very magnificent human
beings to be wrongfully convicted and get an excessive sentence
and still find hope and keep going and not giving up.
I commend every individual, every xonery forwithstanding that that our
(15:17):
justice system has failed so many.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Oh so many, because at least two people they are
wrongfully convicted and oh gosh, it is frightening, like you.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Said, and makes me terified for my children.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Oh, I don't blame you, no. And the thing is,
I'll but the public getting involved spreading the word that
does help. I've seen what happens when the public gets
involved and politicians go, oh, start thinking my career. So
they start say, okay, well we're going to re look
(15:54):
at this case. And that's how you get more exonerations
because public demand because we're the taxpayers, we pay their salary,
and ultimately we can vote the men are out.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
That's right. And you know that's something that we're really
pushing for Smith County, everyone that lives there, to really
utilize the voter's power and turn it around. So I
do have hope for that, because right now, the elected
officials and office are very difficult to correspond with mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And because this is what happened, was the appeals process.
I remember him telling me it's a joke, and he's
he's absolutely correct, it is. It's just it's awful, and
he would he was going to the pills process. All
didn't have like attorneys with him, but they didn't truly
(16:50):
help him.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
That's correct. He when he went back to file his
hapeus corpus with the Court of Criminal Appeals with the state,
they did send it back for evident sharing hearing. So
upon going back for their evident sharing hearing, you actually
go back to the county you're convicted in, which doesn't
(17:16):
make much sense to me, however, that is the law.
And you go back to the county that you are
convicted in and you're try to get in there you
have your evident sharing hearing there, and that's where it was,
and his legal representation selled him terribly, would not speak up.
So it just really it just really makes an outsider
(17:40):
just reading a book or watching a movie, what is
your attorney doing, what's going on behind scenes, who's talking
to who? Who is you know, everything's on the table
now because everybody sees this right and wrong. And then
they wanted to turn around and give me Matthew a
(18:00):
perjury charge instead. And I also did want to bring
up the case still going on about carry Max Cook,
same county, we're dealing with, the same exact county. And
if you, if anyone, if any of the listeners, do
google carry Max Cook. His case is actually known for
one of the most infamous wrongful convictions known in America
(18:24):
at this time. So this is a very this is
a this is a very well known county that we're
that we're dealing with right now. There's a book written
Smith County Justice, And so I just want to draw
more attention that this is still going on, it's not over,
(18:45):
and everyone's help bringing and everyone's help desperately.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
And another thing I wanted to ask was with Matthew,
how hard is it you know, when I were sure
to have Katie and I'll be especially to head advocate
Fortunity's case. At first, I feel like, Okay, I just
feel like I'm yelling into the abyss right now, I'll
did it feel like that for a while with you too?
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Yes, I've gotten very discouraged. And I have too that
no one has the compassion as I do as a
human being to see that someone has been treated wrong
and that people that I've entrusted growing up and in
(19:39):
my state aren't listening and making it correct. And it really,
it really does at number to your to your psyche.
It's throws it throws your it throws your whole mind
for a loop. I always tell everyone as well, I'm
a Texan. I'm born and raped Texan through and through all,
(20:00):
always been proud to be a Texan until I've seen
all the injustice that that our law in our state
has done, and it just makes me sick. So it's
it's like, what's going on here? You just want to
shake everybody?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yes, And you know I said before, you know, like
an older video I was doing, I'll there's some kinds
y'all can TikTok like questions I get asked with my job.
And one of the questions I had appear on Scream
was why do you care so much? And I responded,
why don't you?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Why don't you exactly where? Where? Where is it in
the I I do love to watch and follow our legislation.
We do have a we have a legislation coming up
in January as Texas we start and there are some
(20:59):
there are some bills in place, but the criminal justice
bills don't get far. We do have Republicans that are
in that are in share spots that do support criminal
justice reform, and we did see that last legislation back
(21:20):
in twenty twenty two. But I just hope it does.
Like you were saying, these progressive das, I just hope
that the entire political stance is progressive, right, because we
need to grow. If we're not growing, then there's something wrong.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yes, well, exactly like all this is nothing about your
all local elections. Is that the president can only be
so much, the governor can only do so much. You
know all people, you know, all the House, the Senate,
you know your Atturney's general district attorney. They're the ones
who decide do we move forward or go backwards.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
That's exactly right. And I really have a lot of
respect for Greg Abbott, our governor, and I do know
that he tries really hard to protect the citizens of
Texas and he does a very good job. I just
wish that he would pay closer attention to the wrongful
(22:30):
convictions and the sentence commutations, the applications that come through
from the Board of Pardons and paroles and make it
on his desk and really really focus on some time
looking at these applications and granting some commutations because he
(22:52):
is known to grant some commutations in the past. The
last one he's granted was back in two thousand and three.
But I would really love to call on mister Abbott
to help us out with this and show some concern
for I don't I don't always use the word underdogs,
but basically the underdogs of the community. That's where we
(23:14):
need to be growing. We need to be rehabilitating our families,
of the middle class citizens, of the povard citizens, and
trying to make our streets better where they're not and
in helping instead of keep making it worse and turning
a blond eye.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Now I'm not here point fingers because we got Kivs
for governor and I cannot stand her. So like I said,
I'm not pointing fingers. All politicians are all just they
all so again not pointing fingers. I will say one
thing it was about gray Locke is that he will
there's more a little more hope for him than k
iv There's no way with an execution. You know, she
(23:58):
will all do anything saying, like, you know, commute their sentence.
Greg Locke has at least, you know, commuted some sentences.
So there's a little hope there. Uh with again not
judging because we got freaking k IV. I'm just putting
out there that there are some wrong for convictions. Uh
(24:19):
the Matthew course, there's also Jennifer Jefflee who's in Texas. Uh,
there's all there's several U, Rob will you know? And
it sent on death row. And I wish he would,
you know, Yeah, And I just wish that he would
listen uh to the because there's a lot of I mean,
(24:43):
they're absolutely everywhere. I've just continued to find out more
and more in Texas. So I I do wish he
would uh pay just be closer attention to that.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
I do as well, and maybe open some streamlining communication
to a representative directly in his office. Maybe open a
committee and put a secretary or at there to where
families like ours and advocates like us can reach out
and share these stories, just for some data if that,
(25:19):
if anything, some to show him that this is a
this is a real problem that needs to be addressed.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And another thing I want to ask is okay so Matthew,
you know, unfortunately the appeals have run out, but hope
it's not lost. So what's the next step for him?
Speaker 4 (25:40):
So the next step we did get a professional case
review of his of where he's at now earlier this year,
and the opinion was to move forward with a application
for a commutation. And in order to apply for a
(26:02):
commutation in Texas, you have to get with the current
trial official and district attorney and then obtain letters of
recommendation from them to go along with your application. So
(26:25):
I have requested that the district attorney in Smith County,
which is Jacob Putman, I have sent him a request
to recommend a commutation for Matthew and for him to
look over this case and see the facts. And I
(26:50):
was really hopeful that he would correspond with me. Unfortunately
I haven't had any luck, but I'm not given up there.
So we're just really trying to figure out a way
to get those letters of recommendation to go with the application.
And then after we do obtain those letters, we turn
(27:11):
it into the Board of Pardons and Paroles over.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
The state of Texas.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
They review the application, they vote, and then if the
majority wins, it goes on to Greg Abbott, who then
will look it over and then decide there if he
wants to go ahead and sign that commutation. And he
has the power to relieve.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So what do we do to help all? Are there
people that we tink contact to help them?
Speaker 4 (27:42):
There? There is Brian Hughes in Smith County. He is
a representative. And then also I would love for anyone
and everyone to out to Jacob Putman themselves. You can
(28:06):
also you can call Smith County District Attorney. I also
have Jacob Putman's email address. It's J Putman, which is
p as in Paul U T M A N at Smith.
(28:29):
And then there's a Dash County dot com. So J
Putman at Smith dash County dot com discription too. So
thank you, thank you, Sarah. I just came across his
email sellers really pleased to see that email is always
(28:52):
best when advocating. Just just for some paper trailing some evidence.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Mm hmm. So all, what do we need to ask?
How do we ask for a sentence reduction?
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Yes, we're we are asking for a a complete commutation,
that Matthew has has spent enough time in there and
that we want him to be relieved. Of his wrongful conviction.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
He's had good behavior, you know, he hasn't been you know,
getting in trouble for this and that. So that's things
put on there.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Yes, absolutely, he is a model, a model inmate. He welds,
he has a job from Monday to Friday, and he
lives in the dorm. He's actually pending approval for the
first ever insent advised living dorm on Michael Uni. Great.
(30:01):
So we just figured that out today and we're really
looking forward to that. So things are really looking up
for Matthew's circumstances and the Lord really looks out for him.
So yeah, so as everyone could just reach out to
Smith County and supporting us, asking Jacob Putman to write
(30:24):
up that letter of recommendation that the state should review
this case and relieve Matthew of the time that he
is facing.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And we will get on that. I'll put everything of
the description and we will I will also put all
of the TikTok account Facebook for Matthew's disclamency pages. Also,
you know, we will have Dollie Matthew back again soon,
but Mona come, we will keep you updated until Matthew's out.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
That's right, and thank you everyone that's listening. It means
so much to me, especially as an advocate too. It's
very exciting to have people join join the cause. And
it's amazingly yes, only with you listeners, only with everyone
listening and learning about Matthew and all these other wrongful convictions,
(31:16):
that we can actually manifest change and you see it.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Never under the power of your voice.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
That's right, that's right, Sarah.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
And so thank you again for coming on and everyone
you go off things everything in the description again, never
underestimate the power of your voice. We've achieved so much
and we will continue to achieve more. Keep spreading that word.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Don't be afraid of it's the care foodstars not every
lad is gone. And cat you baby, let a very
nice bag. Keep you close to your heart, o love
the treasure is gone and jab you crazy because you're
a man in the morning. All kind of that, And
(32:01):
stro't be afraid of side. Be careful with size, not
if it's gonna carry you.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna saw a highlight
Peter Pan in real life, be living all my dreams,
come waking up per center four land, whole wrist covered
up in Ice dealership never asked the price
Zoon me the faided it side becare foodstacks, not every
lady's gone, and cat you baby, don't let it may
nice bag get be close to her host. I love
the prescions kinda javy kazy because you are to the
manes in the morning. It's all kinda then it's Jon
(00:22):
me a faded say the care foodstade, not every ladn't gone,
and guide you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna saw a highlight
Peter Pan, real life, be living out my dreams, come
waking up.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's in a four whole risk coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hello, welcome to the Boys and Flying Bars. I'm your host,
Sarah Dearman. I have Monica Shepherd on here. She is
the head advocate for Matthew Dorsey. So Monica, welcome to
the show.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Hey, Sarah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm very glad to have you as well. I'm excited
to this and all. When it comes to Matthew Dorsey,
we all recently had an episode about him, interviewed him
real sweet man and all could you go over all prime?
He was wrongully convicted of like definitely a release sentence.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Four sure thing. He was convicted for aggravated assault of
a public servant, and he did not touch the officer,
did not harm the officer, and the officer also testified
it with him on that and unfortunately was not not
(01:37):
adhered to, and he received a life sentence.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
And his attorney also pressured him to say that life sentence.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Or yes, unfortunately so and it was of course a
court appointed attorney, and with Matthew being as young as
he was, and then of course Hispian me not being
familiar with how the court works and fell in fell
into this very unfortunate guilty plea.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I know, that's the saying in school they teach us,
you know, just the system works. Everyone gets, you know,
the right to a fair trial, you get an attorney,
you know, if you can't afford women. But they don't
tell us the truth, which is that it was designed
to fail. Unless you're part of the elite, it's designed
to fail. And if they had told us the truth,
(02:33):
then I think we would have had more tools to
fight this a lot sooner.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I completely agree. I do feel like the education system
is doing a disservice as a community not revealing all
the laws and the court because if anyone is driving
on the roads or interacting with another person out in society,
(03:00):
you are at risk for getting in the same predicament.
It can happen to anyone and the.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Next thing you know, you think you're just hanging out
with someone talking and they all have other plans. They
pull up their gun shoot someone else. You had no
idea that was going to happen. But you're guilty of
phoney murder.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
That's right. That's exactly right, Sarah. And it really should.
It really should concern every single person listening that can
hear this podcast can really do some research on wrongful convictions,
and it should. It should scare everyone. Everyone should have
an urgency and changing this because it could be someone
(03:43):
in your family, it could be one of your friends,
it could be anybody. And so we really need to
see some change.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
And we've got an election coming up, and I'm begging
you all pay attention to your all local elections and
not just every four years. Every time there's an election,
please vote. Please make sure I'll have everything in the description.
Make sure you have registered to vote. Check your registration
because some states have purged some voters. So if you
(04:17):
ever held all legal immigration card, a legal one, they
will have purged you, So make sure you're registered. If
you have to get reregistered, it'll be on there. And
please research every candidate everyone, because I've on both sides,
because you know, some who claim to be progressive have
their hands dirty with wrongfel convictions, saying goes for the right.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
So that's true. And to add to that, you know,
especially for our fellow selling, check your state laws. See
if you can vote after you have completely exhausted your
senate state, look into it and see if you can vote.
Because so many fellas think, Okay, well I'm a felon,
(05:02):
so I can't I can't vote. But that's not true.
That's not true in every state.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, their voting rights may have been restored, that's correct.
So with Matthew All, how long into his sentence was
it when he started becoming his pet advocate?
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I met Matthew when he was at his fourteenth year
of his wrongful incarceration.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
And how long has he been in there so far?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Now to this date, he's been in there for eighteen years.
Come November next month or month after next, it'll be
his nineteenth year.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And when he became his head advocate. What was it
like when you were looking into his case all and
just reading through it and doing the research. What was
that like.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
It took a long amount of time, just due to
the fact of the complexity of it all and the
timeline of it all, and learning more about the law
and how the verbiage of all of the court documents.
Of course, because I'm coming into it, I'm familiar with law,
(06:21):
but I'm not at all and an advocate for law,
so coming into it it was very difficult and intimidating,
but I dug my hills in. It took a long
time because of all the complexities of his case and
all the twists and turns at the courts and his
(06:43):
court appointed attorney. It got real messy.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
When I first started, all done the head advocate Lutnity
Bruer's case all he had to sit there and teach
me the law because it's a federal case. But still
all he had to teach me all the law all
and you know exactly what went wrong, what this means,
what that means. So that's how I started learning. And
then I started looking more stuff up and I was
(07:11):
and as the years have gone by, I found out
more and more what went wrong i'd been understanding more so,
like you say, it is complicated, what you get it,
you're good, but it takes a minute.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
It does, and then you have, you know, your epiphanies
where it actually clicks, and your comprehension and understanding of
how one thing affects the other, and then the entire
process of it all, you know, an entire timeline, like
what everything is in general. I've done a lot of youtubing,
(07:43):
a lot of googling. AI is my best friend now,
So it's it's progressive for sure. And I also my
core as well, my core learning was listening to Matthew.
He would let me ask the same question over and
(08:06):
over and over until I can memorize it until and
he would ask me questions about his case and everything.
So it was just it turned into a bonding experience,
to say the least. And it's it's astronomical that every
(08:27):
every single person that's underneath the law is not doing
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Well, I know, like, oh, they're like, for instance, the
district attorney, which you need to pay attention to because
that's the prosecutor when you vote. Their goal is to
get a high conviction, right, that's the goal. And you
can't get a high conviction rate without multiple convictions is
under your belt. And they will, I mean lawyers are
(08:58):
in on it to especially public defender, you know, where
they will tamper with evidence. They will withhold evidence. Ah
they will say oh yeah, speaking withholding evidence. But there
have been times, there are many times so it will
go missing quote or quotes around that. They will get witnesses,
(09:19):
you know, they tell you put them. If you don't
guessify and line, then we'll do this. It's and that's
where again you do your research and you find out
what happened with the pre trial uh. And you also
look into like a uh interviewing of course the person
(09:39):
as came for, but people around them, people uh like
for instance, anything that they said like okay, this is
where this went wrong. Okay, look up that law and
see exactly you know, business matchup? Is this align? Yes,
that law was broken in court and all that's all
(10:00):
of the things that led to the WAW convictions. And
like you said, it's it's complicated, but it's also and
again like you said, it's also very scary once starts clicking,
oh this went wrong? That went wrong?
Speaker 4 (10:14):
And how how are these court officials that we are
intrusting with their integrity. They're laying their hand on the Bible,
taking the oath, whatever that shall mean. At this time
and age, it seems like none of these individuals are
taking it seriously, and that should scare everyone. We have
no integrity it. The thing is, Sarah, there needs to
(10:43):
be conviction integrity units over every state, over every county,
making sure that all of these elected officials that we're
just checking a box and insting and trusting our trust.
Oh you know what, and and just putting this in
the listener's thoughts. You know, when you start voting, who
(11:08):
actually knows who they're voting for? When you start to vote.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Well, I started to vote, I didn't. I don't know,
I'll it took me years before I realized I need
to do my research. They have sample ballots online, that's.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Right, that's right. And so we have a lot of
the younger generation that that is wanting to be involved.
But and and really I guess older generation as well.
I shouldn't just say younger generation.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
You have it's pretty pomp vote.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
So yeah, yeah they are. And it gives me a
lot of hope because the younger generation is bringing in
some more compassionate logic. That was something else that I
wanted to touch on. It just seems as though once
these attorneys that are turning into politicians, that are turning
in into these high powers, they just seem to lose
(12:05):
their humanity, They seem to lose their integrity and and
what's right and common.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Sense because they want to all Like I've seen you
a politicians who you know, were all once, you know,
starting out good people, but you know, as they kept
getting more power, that's all they cared about. And I've
seen other politicians where they're held us this progressive, but
(12:38):
they never were. If if you look back to their
career as an attorney, they never were. And even though
they've done some good stuff now the media just cover
the horrible stuff they do. So that's Black keeps saying,
you've got to dig your research. You're right, But all
I wanted to ask when looking into his case, you know,
(13:00):
reading the transcripts, all I guess where were some of
the initial red flags.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Initial red flag, of course, is the witnesses that they
pulled in and and the witnesses being Matthew's girlfriend at
the time and her father, and how she completely switched
(13:29):
up on Matthew obviously, and then of course her father
threatening Matthew's life in the courtroom. What are we doing?
Why are so many laws are being broken? And it
wasn't until Matthews spent time while doing time in prison
(13:50):
really studying the law. He did for a very long time.
He knows the law very well now because you would
go sit in a law eye yep. So he's sitting
in the law library learning all of these things and
seeing and learning more so it's it makes it even
(14:10):
more painful in a sense because he's he's gaining the
knowledge of actually the depth of how bad they did
do him.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It's very painful because you know, I talked to a
lot of people wrongly convicted and they start hitting the
books and you know, absolutely I encourage that was there
in the law library and they start learning how badly
they were screwed over it. Like you said, it's heartbreaking
because it's it's it's just someone had walked through it before.
(14:42):
You know, they're attorney supposed to but if not their attorney,
just someone and in the legal profession saying okay, here
are your rights.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Yes, yes, and they're wrongfully convicted or very magnificent human
beings to be wrongfully convicted and get an excessive sentence
and still find hope and keep going and not giving up.
I commend every individual, every xonery forwithstanding that that our
(15:17):
justice system has failed so many.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Oh so many, because at least two people they are
wrongfully convicted and oh gosh, it is frightening, like you.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Said, and makes me terified for my children.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Oh, I don't blame you, no. And the thing is,
I'll but the public getting involved spreading the word that
does help. I've seen what happens when the public gets
involved and politicians go, oh, start thinking my career. So
they start say, okay, well we're going to re look
(15:54):
at this case. And that's how you get more exonerations
because public demand because we're the taxpayers, we pay their salary,
and ultimately we can vote the men are out.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
That's right. And you know that's something that we're really
pushing for Smith County, everyone that lives there, to really
utilize the voter's power and turn it around. So I
do have hope for that, because right now, the elected
officials and office are very difficult to correspond with mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And because this is what happened, was the appeals process.
I remember him telling me it's a joke, and he's
he's absolutely correct, it is. It's just it's awful, and
he would he was going to the pills process. All
didn't have like attorneys with him, but they didn't truly
(16:50):
help him.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
That's correct. He when he went back to file his
hapeus corpus with the Court of Criminal Appeals with the state,
they did send it back for evident sharing hearing. So
upon going back for their evident sharing hearing, you actually
go back to the county you're convicted in, which doesn't
(17:16):
make much sense to me, however, that is the law.
And you go back to the county that you are
convicted in and you're try to get in there you
have your evident sharing hearing there, and that's where it was,
and his legal representation selled him terribly, would not speak up.
So it just really it just really makes an outsider
(17:40):
just reading a book or watching a movie, what is
your attorney doing, what's going on behind scenes, who's talking
to who? Who is you know, everything's on the table
now because everybody sees this right and wrong. And then
they wanted to turn around and give me Matthew a
(18:00):
perjury charge instead. And I also did want to bring
up the case still going on about carry Max Cook,
same county, we're dealing with, the same exact county. And
if you, if anyone, if any of the listeners, do
google carry Max Cook. His case is actually known for
one of the most infamous wrongful convictions known in America
(18:24):
at this time. So this is a very this is
a this is a very well known county that we're
that we're dealing with right now. There's a book written
Smith County Justice, And so I just want to draw
more attention that this is still going on, it's not over,
(18:45):
and everyone's help bringing and everyone's help desperately.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
And another thing I wanted to ask was with Matthew,
how hard is it you know, when I were sure
to have Katie and I'll be especially to head advocate
Fortunity's case. At first, I feel like, Okay, I just
feel like I'm yelling into the abyss right now, I'll
did it feel like that for a while with you too?
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Yes, I've gotten very discouraged. And I have too that
no one has the compassion as I do as a
human being to see that someone has been treated wrong
and that people that I've entrusted growing up and in
(19:39):
my state aren't listening and making it correct. And it really,
it really does at number to your to your psyche.
It's throws it throws your it throws your whole mind
for a loop. I always tell everyone as well, I'm
a Texan. I'm born and raped Texan through and through all,
(20:00):
always been proud to be a Texan until I've seen
all the injustice that that our law in our state
has done, and it just makes me sick. So it's
it's like, what's going on here? You just want to
shake everybody?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yes, And you know I said before, you know, like
an older video I was doing, I'll there's some kinds
y'all can TikTok like questions I get asked with my job.
And one of the questions I had appear on Scream
was why do you care so much? And I responded,
why don't you?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Why don't you exactly where? Where? Where is it in
the I I do love to watch and follow our legislation.
We do have a we have a legislation coming up
in January as Texas we start and there are some
(20:59):
there are some bills in place, but the criminal justice
bills don't get far. We do have Republicans that are
in that are in share spots that do support criminal
justice reform, and we did see that last legislation back
(21:20):
in twenty twenty two. But I just hope it does.
Like you were saying, these progressive das, I just hope
that the entire political stance is progressive, right, because we
need to grow. If we're not growing, then there's something wrong.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yes, well, exactly like all this is nothing about your
all local elections. Is that the president can only be
so much, the governor can only do so much. You
know all people, you know, all the House, the Senate,
you know your Atturney's general district attorney. They're the ones
who decide do we move forward or go backwards.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
That's exactly right. And I really have a lot of
respect for Greg Abbott, our governor, and I do know
that he tries really hard to protect the citizens of
Texas and he does a very good job. I just
wish that he would pay closer attention to the wrongful
(22:30):
convictions and the sentence commutations, the applications that come through
from the Board of Pardons and paroles and make it
on his desk and really really focus on some time
looking at these applications and granting some commutations because he
(22:52):
is known to grant some commutations in the past. The
last one he's granted was back in two thousand and three.
But I would really love to call on mister Abbott
to help us out with this and show some concern
for I don't I don't always use the word underdogs,
but basically the underdogs of the community. That's where we
(23:14):
need to be growing. We need to be rehabilitating our families,
of the middle class citizens, of the povard citizens, and
trying to make our streets better where they're not and
in helping instead of keep making it worse and turning
a blond eye.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Now I'm not here point fingers because we got Kivs
for governor and I cannot stand her. So like I said,
I'm not pointing fingers. All politicians are all just they
all so again not pointing fingers. I will say one
thing it was about gray Locke is that he will
there's more a little more hope for him than k
iv There's no way with an execution. You know, she
(23:58):
will all do anything saying, like, you know, commute their sentence.
Greg Locke has at least, you know, commuted some sentences.
So there's a little hope there. Uh with again not
judging because we got freaking k IV. I'm just putting
out there that there are some wrong for convictions. Uh
(24:19):
the Matthew course, there's also Jennifer Jefflee who's in Texas. Uh,
there's all there's several U, Rob will you know? And
it sent on death row. And I wish he would,
you know, Yeah, And I just wish that he would
listen uh to the because there's a lot of I mean,
(24:43):
they're absolutely everywhere. I've just continued to find out more
and more in Texas. So I I do wish he
would uh pay just be closer attention to that.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
I do as well, and maybe open some streamlining communication
to a representative directly in his office. Maybe open a
committee and put a secretary or at there to where
families like ours and advocates like us can reach out
and share these stories, just for some data if that,
(25:19):
if anything, some to show him that this is a
this is a real problem that needs to be addressed.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And another thing I want to ask is okay so Matthew,
you know, unfortunately the appeals have run out, but hope
it's not lost. So what's the next step for him?
Speaker 4 (25:40):
So the next step we did get a professional case
review of his of where he's at now earlier this year,
and the opinion was to move forward with a application
for a commutation. And in order to apply for a
(26:02):
commutation in Texas, you have to get with the current
trial official and district attorney and then obtain letters of
recommendation from them to go along with your application. So
(26:25):
I have requested that the district attorney in Smith County,
which is Jacob Putman, I have sent him a request
to recommend a commutation for Matthew and for him to
look over this case and see the facts. And I
(26:50):
was really hopeful that he would correspond with me. Unfortunately
I haven't had any luck, but I'm not given up there.
So we're just really trying to figure out a way
to get those letters of recommendation to go with the application.
And then after we do obtain those letters, we turn
(27:11):
it into the Board of Pardons and Paroles over.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
The state of Texas.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
They review the application, they vote, and then if the
majority wins, it goes on to Greg Abbott, who then
will look it over and then decide there if he
wants to go ahead and sign that commutation. And he
has the power to relieve.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So what do we do to help all? Are there
people that we tink contact to help them?
Speaker 4 (27:42):
There? There is Brian Hughes in Smith County. He is
a representative. And then also I would love for anyone
and everyone to out to Jacob Putman themselves. You can
(28:06):
also you can call Smith County District Attorney. I also
have Jacob Putman's email address. It's J Putman, which is
p as in Paul U T M A N at Smith.
(28:29):
And then there's a Dash County dot com. So J
Putman at Smith dash County dot com discription too. So
thank you, thank you, Sarah. I just came across his
email sellers really pleased to see that email is always
(28:52):
best when advocating. Just just for some paper trailing some evidence.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Mm hmm. So all, what do we need to ask?
How do we ask for a sentence reduction?
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Yes, we're we are asking for a a complete commutation,
that Matthew has has spent enough time in there and
that we want him to be relieved. Of his wrongful conviction.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
He's had good behavior, you know, he hasn't been you know,
getting in trouble for this and that. So that's things
put on there.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Yes, absolutely, he is a model, a model inmate. He welds,
he has a job from Monday to Friday, and he
lives in the dorm. He's actually pending approval for the
first ever insent advised living dorm on Michael Uni. Great.
(30:01):
So we just figured that out today and we're really
looking forward to that. So things are really looking up
for Matthew's circumstances and the Lord really looks out for him.
So yeah, so as everyone could just reach out to
Smith County and supporting us, asking Jacob Putman to write
(30:24):
up that letter of recommendation that the state should review
this case and relieve Matthew of the time that he
is facing.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And we will get on that. I'll put everything of
the description and we will I will also put all
of the TikTok account Facebook for Matthew's disclamency pages. Also,
you know, we will have Dollie Matthew back again soon,
but Mona come, we will keep you updated until Matthew's out.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
That's right, and thank you everyone that's listening. It means
so much to me, especially as an advocate too. It's
very exciting to have people join join the cause. And
it's amazingly yes, only with you listeners, only with everyone
listening and learning about Matthew and all these other wrongful convictions,
(31:16):
that we can actually manifest change and you see it.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Never under the power of your voice.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
That's right, that's right, Sarah.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
And so thank you again for coming on and everyone
you go off things everything in the description again, never
underestimate the power of your voice. We've achieved so much
and we will continue to achieve more. Keep spreading that word.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Don't be afraid of it's the care foodstars not every
lad is gone. And cat you baby, let a very
nice bag. Keep you close to your heart, o love
the treasure is gone and jab you crazy because you're
a man in the morning. All kind of that, And
(32:01):
stro't be afraid of side. Be careful with size, not
if it's gonna carry you.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, when I blow up, I'm gonna saw a highlight
Peter Pan in real life, be living all my dreams,
come waking up per center four land, whole wrist covered
up in Ice dealership never asked the price
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