Mrs. Coleman Interview

In this episode, Sarah interviews Mrs. Colman, a tireless advocate for her husband Leonard, who was tragically sentenced to life in prison for a crime he did not commit.

Leonard's case is a poignant example of a flawed justice system, where personal connections and systemic biases played a role in his conviction. Despite being a hardworking, devoted father with no prior convictions, Leonard found himself at the center of a legal nightmare. Shockingly, critical evidence that could exonerate him was overlooked or dismissed.

Key Facts:
Leonard, a man with a clean record and even a Transportation Security Administration background check clearance, was inexplicably singled out as the sole suspect. Personal ties between the lead detective and the victim raise troubling questions about the fairness of Leonard's trial.

During Leonard's interrogation, he pointed authorities towards the person he believed was the real perpetrator, but his plea fell on deaf ears. This oversight led to a tragic miscarriage of justice.

The key witness in Leonard's case, a 4-year-old child with a speech disability, presented unreliable testimony. His inability to clearly communicate further muddied the waters.

District Attorney Ashley Rich's questionable conduct and actions throughout the trial raise concerns about the integrity of Leonard's case.

A shocking revelation in 2020 brought to light new evidence and witness statements that cast doubt on Leonard's conviction. These statements shed light on the true perpetrator and underscore the urgency for a fresh trial.

Leonard's story is one of resilience, determination, and a quest for truth in the face of adversity. Join us in amplifying their voices and demanding a fair reevaluation of Leonard's case. Stand in solidarity with us by sharing this episode and signing the petition for justice.

For more updates, follow us on Instagram @JusticeforLeonardColeman and explore related content through the provided links. Together, we can make a difference.


Justice for Leonard Coleman Instagram page

Leonard Coleman's Change.org

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Show me. The fad is tosay the carefuho stays not every light is
gone, and get your babies thatmay nice Bay keep close to her.
Hi, I love the fastest gunis shaving crazy because you as to the
maness in the morning, it's allgonna then it's showing me a faded say

(00:25):
be carefuo stays not every lad isgonna get you. Yeah, when I
blow up, I'm sure high likePeter Pan the real life be living on
my train. Come wake enough thewhole risk covering up with ice. Hey,
welcome to the voices behind bars.I'm your host, Sarah the armand

(00:47):
and I am very excited. I'vegot my friend here. I have been
her supporter, her friend obviously fora long time. Her husband, Lyric
Coleman, was roughly convicted, andI've also been a friend and supporter of
his for two years now, Ibelieve. And I'll please introduce yourself and

(01:10):
tell us a little bit about yourselfand your husband. Actually you were I
always tell you this as I alwaysthought compliment you that you were our first
big supporter, cheerleader, like postingall of our stuff when I first started
the big and I started my Instagrampage Justice for Leonard Coleman the summer of
twenty twenty one, I believe.So yeah, it's been a little bit

(01:34):
over two years. It's just sayhe the passages of time. But I
am missus Leonard Coleman. I usuallygo by my last name on social just
you know, because of the typeof case I'm representing and not everyone being
very happy about that, to protectmy identity and my children. But I
am, for lack of better term, the director of advocacy for the Justice

(01:57):
for Leonard Coleman campaign, and Iam the brains and the administrator behind change
dot org, slash free Leonard Colemanand instagram at Justice for Leonard Coleman.
So I don't want to go onfor too long, but that's that's my
brief intro. And it's been mypleasure backing both of you this entire time,

(02:17):
because I mean, not only areyou both wonderful people, but I
have no doubt in my mind ofhis insens the moment I read that petition,
I'm like, yeah, this isan innocent man. M Yeah,
It's it's very black and white toanyone who can read, and like you
know, it takes puts out thereso bluntly because there are people that are

(02:38):
vehemently against him. But you know, I like, I've been through school
and I've been through college, butI don't even it doesn't even take that.
You know, anyone who can readand like takes the time to read
through his trial transcripts. It's veryobvious how many holes there are. And

(02:58):
that's kind of what I still justin on on the Chaine dot org petition
that he truly is factually innocent andit's spelled out in black and white multiple
places between his police interrogation and theactual trial in twenty twelve. Yeah,
and I've advocated for it seems likeevery case I advocate forward, there's there's

(03:23):
some idiot in the comics going nope. And unfortunately, I'm not just fuying
anything, I promise you. It'sjust there's always some idiot just helpen on
nope And again not just fuying anything. It's just brain cells depleting. But
it's just just been thing. Butwhen it comes to Lenard, first of

(03:50):
all, how did you two meet? We at the time, he had
access to someone's cellular phone, whichI mean to people who have a loved
one on the inside you know thatthat's a common occurrence. So that was
three years. So we actually justpassed our three year anniversary to the day
we met on septemb virtually thank you, of twenty twenty. And so we

(04:15):
met on a Christian dating app calledUpward. And not that I'm doing a
plug for Upward, it's just theapp that we met on. And from
there we became friends and started talkingon the wall phone as we call it,
but through securists, and we wouldspend like four to six hours a
day if I wasn't working or withmy kids, we were on the phone,

(04:36):
just conversations that went on for hoursthat felt like minutes, really getting
to know each other as friends andkind of like, you know, our
childhood or what things we had beenthrough, so throughout just getting to know
each other. Of course I gotto learn of what he was going through,
but he was afraid to tell meof his situation, so I did

(05:00):
actually know that he was in prisonuntil a week after we were talking,
because at that time, I don'tknow if anyone else has experienced this,
but there's a lot of scammers ondating apps and scammers from out of the
country, So I like I gavehim a timeline. I said, I
really like you, but if youwant to keep talking, we need to

(05:20):
get on video. I want tomake sure like you are who you say.
And it was at that point Irealized that, you know, he
was in prison, and I hada decision to make, and I actually
walked away. I told him,I just, you know, got out
of a marriage and I'm doing reallywell. I'm at the top of my
career finally, you know, afterdecades of work, and I you know,

(05:42):
I'm really focused on my children andI'm stable financially. I'm stable in
my career, I'm at peace inmy life. And you know, it
seemed like a nice guy, butthis just isn't really anything I can take
on right now because of where I'mat. I don't want to take the
risk of you know, us dating. And there's one thing he said to
me that changed the course of youknow, where we are today. He

(06:03):
said, well, maybe if yougave me a chance and listen, you
might change your mind and think differently. It was something to that effect.
I don't have the message anymore,and I did. I gave him a
chance, got to know him alittle bit more as friends and in the
course of hearing his story, itappalled me. I was aghast that,

(06:27):
you know, such an injustice couldhave been done. But I'm like,
uh, you know, I'm notgoing to put my success and everything I've
worked so hard for or my nameon the line if he might not be
telling the truth. So, youknow, once I learned of his story,
like prove it, you know.And that's the way I am in
my professional life as well. Okay, Like you know, I'm an HR

(06:48):
practitioner by profession, and a lotof my job has to do with compliance
and employment law in nine different statesand in Canada. So you know,
if I'm going to make a decision, it has to eat, like you
know, at by best practice backedby you know, correct labor legal practices.
So I operate the same way veryanalytically in my personal life. And

(07:09):
so I went the next steps whereI was like, okay, I ran
a background check on him in thestate of Alabama, like I paid.
I ran my own background check tomake sure he had no other priors out
there. He gave me access tocredit karma. I looked at his credit
report to make sure. You knowwhat he was saying that the only thing
on his credit, was his housewas accurate. I talked to his license

(07:31):
investigator, who took statements of hisinnocence. I spoke with family members,
really kind of trying to discern hischaracter. I read through eleven hundred pages,
like not word for word, butthe permanent parts of his child transcript.
I read these statements of his innocencethat two gentlemen had come forward and

(07:55):
put their statements on file with alicense investigators, saying they heard a confession
from the true perpetrators. So I'mputting all these things together. Everything is
matching and corroborating what he's telling me, but they're also matching up with each
other. So we met, webecame friends, and then he didn't ask
me to do this, but Ijust felt like, you know, I

(08:18):
have the background where I could helphim as far as you know, I
have a business background, and Iknow how to write, I know how
to speak professionally and reach out topeople. And I offered, I said,
you know, I can help yourresearch attorneys. I can put you
out there on social media and seeif we can get public support. Like
you have these statements of your innocence. Now is the time to see if

(08:41):
you can garner public support because likeyou have something that can actually bring you
home, that's also matching up allthe inconsistencies and what was done in your
investigation and at your trial, like, let's do this, I'll help you.
And you know he was hesitant toexcept the help because he didn't want
to be a burden on me tothe point where I might leave him.

(09:05):
But here we are today, Sono, we're small, We're small,
but mighty. We have just overtwelve hundred followers on Instagram and almost twenty
thousand signatures on change dot org,and our next decision might be the one
that actually gives them a new trialor brings them home. So I was
a very long winded answer. Butnow we met, and how we are

(09:28):
where we are today? So well, I wanted to ask before you met,
Leonard, were you aware how commonwrongful convictions are? Not at all?
And I've said that in other otherpodcasts where I've been interviewed that I
had no idea because the background thatI come from the city where I've lived

(09:48):
most of my life, all ofmy life really and you know, just
the circle I've grown up with,my family, my friends, my co
workers, I was never exposed tothis population, the prison pop relation,
and so I think that's what reallymotivated me, besides the fact that you
know, he has children that aregrowing up without a father because of this

(10:11):
is like, this happens way toofrequently, and you know, it was
one thing to dive into his case, but then after I got what I
needed as far as facts and evidence, you know, from the transcripts and
all that, and the affidavits ofhis innocence. But then I took things
to step further. I'm like,okay, I have enough to create an
Instagram and create a change dot org. But so then I took my research
further and started investigating any Google searchI could do, any variation of a

(10:35):
Google search I could do on Ashleyrich the district attorney who prosecuted his case,
Like any variation of a Google searchthat might bring me back information on
retired Judge Rusty Johnston, who oversawhis original trial. And then you know,
as I found out how horrendous ofa reputation those people had, I

(10:56):
started to realize by the people thatwere following me on Instagram or I'm following
them, like, how many otherpeople are going through the same thing,
and it's just in a country thatstands for what we claim to stand for.
It was just I don't even knowthe word to use as as I
realized that it wasn't just Leonard,and I tell him all the time,

(11:22):
you know, because when he getsdown or you know, a little bit
of a dark place or discourage.Thank god, he at least has a
shot. His case is back incourt with a very very strong evidence,
very strong attorney. But there's guysout there going through the same thing,
like countless faces who would love tobe in his position, because it's such

(11:46):
an epidemic in our country, especiallywith black men in the South and minorities.
M oh Man, like in twentytwenty, when I started off finding
out, I, like you,I had I was not exposed to person
culture at all. So when Ifound out, I had no idea what

(12:07):
an epidemic it is. I hadno idea the United speaks number one when
it comes to the most wrongful conditions. So like you, I was horrified.
Yeah, when I found out,that's the word. And also when
it comes to prison conditions, becausehe's in the most dangerous prison in the

(12:28):
state of Alabama from he is,Yeah, I usually don't talk too much
about you know, those types ofthings. But I have my stamp.
Yeah what you just said, Ihave put out there. So he is
in the most dangerous facility in thestate of Alabama. And as you know,
because you're a resident and you knowprobably way better than I do.

(12:50):
I'm in Florida, so I'm kindof like finding out what I can find
out through him or online or fromafire. But they're currently the Alabama Department
of Corrections is currently being sued bythe Department of Justice for it's inhumane and
dangerous prison conditions. So you thinkabout, you know, not only are

(13:16):
these men who you know, likeLeonard going through somebody put a comment on
our petition, probably more than ayear ago. It's like being under anesthesia,
but you're still awake. You're numb, You're able to feel everything,
but you can't tell anyone. Right, So it's bad enough to be living

(13:37):
to a wrongful conviction, but thenyou're losing years of your life. Right,
And I always say, and otherpeople probably say it, to a
wrongful conviction takes, you know,is an injustice to more than one life,
because first of all, the rightperson is not held accountable for taking
a victim's life, but then it'staking you know, the wrongfully convicted person's

(13:58):
life as well. But then ifthey're subjected to the conditions that my husband
is, for example, and it'sa whole added layer of like, now
are they going to come home withlike PTSD and have to go through like
a whole recovery process from all ofthat, because I mean, Leonards will
tell me, you know, almostevery day that I talked to him,

(14:18):
if not every day, or therewas another stabbing or there was another suicide
or there was another you know killing, or and to him, I feel
like it's almost like a normal occurrencethe way that we go through our own
routine every day. We might wakeup and you know, make our coffee
and make our breakfast and go towork, and that's our normal routine.

(14:41):
For him, that's like he's normalevery day. And so yeah, he
is an absolutely overcrowded, dangerous,in humane conditions. Certainly, I was
talking to an organization today about aprison and all, I'm not going to
go to detail because it's not aboutthat, but I was telling her about

(15:01):
some of the stuff they go through. She all, you know, what
helps expose the person system with herorganization. But I was telling her some
of the stuff they go through.She yes, and don't and with in
with this person in particular, it'sit's survival mode for him, just like
with every bay survival mode. Yeah. Yeah, I always credit him.

(15:26):
You know. One of the thingsthat really drew me to him when I
wouldn't. You know, in thebeginning, you're not sure if you're going
to end up with someone, likeif you're going to be together, just
stay friends. But one of thethings that drew me to him as we
were getting to know each other wasthat he clearly has not allowed this situation
to change who he is and thecore of who he is as a human
being. And that's really tough becauseI can't even imagine waking up to that

(15:50):
reality every single day for over adecade and it not changed me somehow.
And not to say he doesn't gothrough you know, awful things or in
mentally, you know, and thathe doesn't have his days of depression or
but I mean, he's in theretrying to help people, you know,
he's in there trying to help themedically frail, or you know, help

(16:10):
people write their own motions to getthemselves back in court or you know,
he will do everything he can tolike not fight people who want to,
you know, fight him and startfights with him, because that's just the
environment. You know. People they'reangry, they're you know, they don't
have sometimes access to their loved onesor you know, caring conditions or staff

(16:33):
members, and so they're just kindof agitated all the time and sometimes want
to pick fights. And he'll doeverything he can to like talk to people
and like, hey, let's talkor you know, hey, I don't
have a problem with you. Let'snot fight. And he's just somehow still
a really solid human being after livinglike that for such a long time.

(16:55):
Oh he's a sweetheart. Yeah,that's true. That's true. You're spoken.
And now, how long was itbefore you realized, you know,
I want to marry him? Well, I don't know it. Hopefully he
doesn't think get up, so Idon't mind answering the question. But if
he ever hears this, one day, he knows I did not want to

(17:18):
get married. I just wanted tokeep dating for like, because I had
been I had only been single foreight months, I had only been divorced
or eight months when we met.And so I told him, like,
I'd rather just date for like fouror five years and really got to know
each other before we decide, LikeI said, we can be engaged.
I don't mind that. I justdon't want to sign a paper until like
maybe four or five years down theroad. He asked me to marry him

(17:41):
after thirty days, I think,on our one month anniversary, and I
said, yes, you know,but he I mean, I guess I
put myself in his position at thetime, and I still try to.
He was afraid that I would leave, you know, that at some point
I would just get set up withthe situation of like waiting for him,

(18:02):
and that I was just either teenon him or move on, you know,
say I can't take this anymore andfind someone else. So I compromised,
I guess to put his mind atease, and we ended up getting
married the January after we met,so four months in and then I said,
well, I don't want to changemy last name because then people are

(18:22):
going to know and I'm going tohave to explain to them why my husband's
not around. And then I endedup changing my last name anyway, because
you know, I just I triedto do whatever I could to put his
mind at ease that I wasn't goinganywhere. And I mean, like,
so far here we are. We'llbe married for three years in January,
and right now we've been just togetherfor three years. So well, and

(18:47):
you know, I really do commendyou because I mean, not only are
you two wonderful couple, but youreally have been a fighter, You've been
a leader, You've inspired me,and you, I mean, you've done
so much for him his case,and like I mean, you've not only
inspired me, I sudn't inspire others. And I just absolutely want to thank

(19:10):
you for everything you've done for him, for this community. Oh true,
you give me too much credit,I think, but thanks. Oh no,
no, but I did want toask. No, it's the tough
question. So what happened with Leonard'scase with this wrongful conviction? You mean,

(19:33):
like the factors that caused him likeoriginally a decade ago, to be
runtily convicted, right, Yeah,So yeah, I mean we might be
here till tomorrow. Honestly, wemight need a part two to this episode.
But so first of all, justone of the things that really I
guess I'll kind of go and orderlike police investigation through prosecution. But one

(19:56):
of the first things that really stoodout to me was that he had no
prior convictions. He has no priorconvictions, but not only that, he
had been approved for a TWICK card, a TWIC card, which you can't
get one of those unless you gothrough the Transportation Security Administration, which is
a national background check, as weall know. So I'm thinking, hmm,

(20:21):
that's a little weird, right that. And I'll tell you why it
in combination with the next thing I'mgoing to say. When this came out
and opened, it isn't his investigationin his trial transcript, but it also
came out in open court in February, so I'm not talking about anything that
could hurt his case at this point. During his interrogation in December of twenty

(20:41):
ten, he provided the exact nameof someone he thought could have done this
crime. Because of course, youknow, he was saying I did not
do this, I would not dothis, you know, And I'm not
like quoting word for word, buthe was denying that he did this.
And Okay, so they come backand it was detectives for officers. I

(21:02):
don't know what their titles were,bags By and Quinny were asking him,
well, then who do you thinkdid it? He said so and so
because he threatened me, he threatenedthe victim, and I think it could
have been him. Well, nowwe know it's him, right, I'll
get there. But in his twentytwelve trial transcript, Officer Quinny testified on

(21:26):
the stand under oaths that no othersuspects were ever investigated in Leonard's case except
for Leonard. So that is justsuper alarming to me because you have somebody
with no priors, and you wouldthink if you're doing your due diligence and
they provide you a potential suspect thatbefore changing the course of someone's entire life,

(21:52):
sending them to a life sentence,and also giving the victims family information,
so now they're going to believe whoeveryou say did this crime. You
know, the police departments and districtattorney offices of this country have like a
lot of power to change people's lifefor the negative, you know, and
in this case, this is whathappened. So you would think before that

(22:15):
happens, they're gonna like, Okay, you know what, we think the
guy did it, but we're goingto run this other person we're going to
bring them in for interrogation. No, they didn't do that. So that
was a thing that even allowed itto go to trial. Now, if
you would imagine, I'm like,I'm not the smartest bulb when it comes
to this stuff. Okay, LikeI'm very good at what i do,
so someone out there can correct meif I'm wrong, you know, but

(22:37):
I'm really good at my business job. But so if I'm wrong on this.
But you would imagine a district attorneyhas to know about exculpatory evidence when
they prosecute the case. So districtAttorney Ashley Rich, who by the way,
has been written up in Filter magazineand USA Today questioning her conduct in
the courtroom. And that's the wholeother story. She clearly prosecuted his case

(23:02):
knowing that there was another suspect outthere. I have to imagine she did
right. And so now we knowthat in twenty twenty, the year I
met him, actually coincidentally, theperpetrator's best friends came forward and they said,
look, he gave us the confessionthat he committed this crime, pulled

(23:22):
us exactly how he did it,and a couple of days later he ended
his life out of guilt. Socome to find out, it's the exact
same person that Leonard tried to mentionduring his interrogation by the Mobile, Alabama
Police Department. So another thing,now we can talk about the judge a

(23:44):
little bit, retired Judge Rusty Johnston, who presided over the original trial.
As I was doing research about thecounty. Once I had gathered enough facts
about his case to do what Ineeded to do now, I turned my
search to the county and their practices. That judge a couple of years after
Leonard's trial, I think twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. Like, if anyone's

(24:06):
curious, they could go to myInstagram page. It's a really old post.
That judge made blog posts against theBlack Life Matter movement, saying that
it was a lie, and alsospoke out against minorities and immigrants on a
separate post. So this is theperson that was overseeing the trial. At
the end of the trial transcript though, I will say that he even noticed

(24:29):
errors in the proceedings, but thathe was just going to quote unquote zip
his lips. So the judge iseven noticing that things are awry. Another
thing that was very bizarre was thatthe only person who could testify against Leonard
was at the time a I guesstoddler, you could say, a four

(24:52):
year old diagnosed with echolalia buy aprofessional from the University of Alabama diagnosed with
red flags for the possibility of autism. And so there was like no physical
evidence against him, nobilistics matches,no fingerprint matches, just the testimony of

(25:15):
a child with a speech disability ofspeech disorder. And Ashley Rich, District
attorney, Ashley Rich probably even knewherself in her soul that that testimony was
unreliable, so she covered herself andfiled the motion to have the child not
have to testify in court, andso that was granted. Subsequently was granted.

(25:37):
So Leonard was actually convicted on theout of court statements of that child,
just on what the police officers saidthat the child said. So that's
the violation of our sixth Amendment rightright there. But however, whatever loophole's
district attorney Ashley Rich found, shefound. So yeah, I mean,
those are just a few of thebig things, but there there are other

(26:02):
little things that I could speak toas well. But I'm going to give
you a chance to time in here. So oh, when you it's all
of that information and you said,you know, I want to help you
make a petition? Did you allreach out to any organizations? Did at

(26:23):
your organization site you know, hey, I want to help you. Did
any agree to help? Well,I think you're you're asking probably for the
for the listeners. But you andI have gone back and forth about this
in the past that I think weeven talked about this when I was physically
there and we had dinner together.That yeah, And that is the whole

(26:47):
reason why I decided to come outof anonymity. I never wanted to show
my faith on that platform because Iknow there are people out there who wish
ill for Leonard and do not likehim, and have made it very clear
from the time this happened until nowthey do not like him. So,
you know, I didn't want toput myself in a situation where people might

(27:08):
come after me. So I hadnever planned that anyone would even know who
was administrating that petition or that Instagrampage. But after reaching out to countless
organizations for help and realizing that thesepeople, a lot of them don't care.
And the reason I say that islike the cases that you see getting

(27:32):
assistance are the ones that usually havelike so many signatures or so many followers
that it would benefit the organization tohelp them. It'll give some podcast ratings,
or it'll help the organization get agrant or whatever. It's like a
self serving decision, is what itseems like to me. So after like

(27:52):
enough time, like several months ofreaching out, reaching out, reaching out,
and some people would actually say theywould accept our case even worse to
me, I'd rather you just ignoreme or say no. What baffles me.
And it's so, I guess horrifyingto me. Some people a couple

(28:15):
organizations accepted our case and did absolutelynothing right. So now I'm applying and
one of two things is happening.I'm either not getting acceptances or if people
are accepting, they're not doing anything. So finally I said, you know
what, I'm going to do thismyself. It's like somebody who's got to

(28:37):
do it because I don't know thathe'll ever have this chance again where people
are actually coming forward and saying Ihave information and I'm willing to testify about
it. So so yeah, Ireached out to countless organizations. I reached
out to Alabama Apple Feed, wherethey have a specific set of criteria where
Leonard's case wouldn't qualify because I believehe would have had to be sentenced to

(29:03):
life without role and he could technicallybe parolled in twenty twenty six, even
though we know Alabama is not rollinganybody. I reached out to Equal Justice
Eji a specific context there, whoused Leonard to get information that would help
EJI file a lawsuit against his facilitiesabout the dangerous conditions there, but then

(29:27):
didn't want to help whatsoever with hiscase. And I did go through the
proper application process with them. Let'ssee, I reached out to Southern Poverty
Law Center. There are a couplethat I won't mentioned because they are two
organizations that didn't accepted his case anddid not BLUs, but I don't want

(29:48):
to put them out there right nowat this time. Now. One that
I did reach out to that Ididn't hear back from until two years later,
so I thought they might not help. But they're actually considering him for
their spring semester, and that's Ihaven't announced this anywhere, so this is
actually exclusive information. But a coupleof months ago, Georgetown University is making

(30:11):
an exonary program. Reached out tome that they're considering his case for their
fault spring semester. Sorry, we'rein fall from my ball on the brain,
but they're considering him for a Springof twenty twenty four. So out
of all the organizations I tried,and they're the only one that I think
something viable could come out of it. All, right, let's go Georgetown.

(30:33):
Yes, yeah, the fingers crossedand hands together in prayer. Absolutely,
And I'll also like Equal Justice Initiative. Yeah, I didn't have a
good experience with them either, andI'll imagined all all the applecy wasn't.
Yeah, I believe maybe they wouldhave pained his case if he had life

(30:57):
without So I remember one time contactingthem, didn't hear anything. And like
New Southern Poverty Law Center, Ohno luck with them either. And I'll
I have tried so many organizations aswell, for different people. I'm advocating

(31:17):
for all, especially like I'll acouple in particular that are like my main
cases. I reached out to many, many organizations and uh, it's either
I don't hear anything or just nope, And like you said, it's disappointing.
Absolutely and like, I mean,it's just disheartening. It's sad.

(31:38):
Like the girl I spoke with thatSouthern poverty was really nice. They can't
say anything, you know, badabout her. But the response from her
colleague, which she was kind oflike the person relaying everything to me from
her colleagues for well, you know, sometimes if we get involved, the
district attorneys get at and there's likebacklashs on the case. But it's like,

(32:02):
okay, if I get that,but if we're all living in fear
of the DA offices of the world, and how are we ever going to
affect change? You know? Andso I was like, screw this,
Like I'm putting it out on changedot org because it's it's not my opinion
that he's innocent. I can read. I was hooked on phonics. I

(32:22):
passed elementary school. It doesn't takeracket science to read through his TROLD transcript
and his interrogation and the statements ofhis innocence and what Ashley Rick has been
accused of in the media and puttwo and two together that he's actually innocent.
So exactly afraid and so somebody's afraidto you know, I don't know.

(32:45):
Sometimes if it's fear or laziness,to be quite honest. But yeah,
it was super disheartening to hear frommy contact at Southern Poverty that they
try not to get involved in casethere's backlashs on the case. You know.
Oh, it's very just heeartening.It's very disheartening when, like you
said it, they want a casewhere there's a lot of publicity. It's

(33:08):
disheartening when there's a case that's verycontroversial, even though it's very obvious the
person did not do it, butstill, oh it's controversial, and I'm
like, but the person didn't doit, you would rather not take the
case because it's controversial and letting younotice what person dye in prison? Oh

(33:28):
yeah, they would. I meanit's like I posted the other day,
you know, and I I mean, I'm not on there to make friends,
so I don't care if people readmy stuff and think that, you
know, oh, well, she'sjust too outspoken. While I'm on there
to you know, help Leonard gethis voice out there. But I posted
the other day, like you know, people are finning was going on their

(33:49):
vacations and sleeping in their fancy hotelsand enjoying their nice dinners as long as
like it's not affecting them when it'sthe potential to affect them. Oh you
know, so you know, theythey want to take the cases that will
either help them in some way orthat are polite at dinner conversation, you
know, and a lot of timeswith wrong convictions, it's not polite conversation,

(34:13):
you know. And I feel thatway about. I've even reached out
to people within the church that havereally high influence that no like former presidents
for example, who you know,run community service organizations and didn't want to
touch it. Didn't want to touchhis case. And it's like, you
know, there's the politically correct thingsto support, like you know, the

(34:37):
unsheltered population or single mothers or youknow, domestic violence victims, and all
of those things are worthy causes thatneed support. Absolutely. I'm a survivor
of domestic violence, so you know, I am a single mother. My
father, you know, during hisalcohol addiction and bipolar disorder, was unsheltered.
I'm not speaking out against any ofthese populations, but what I'm the

(34:58):
point I'm trying to make here isthat some people just want to support and
back the causes that are polite conversation. The wrongs for devictions are messy,
you know, and so you'll findless and less people that will put themselves
on the line to back an actuallyinnocent person. M oh. I remember

(35:19):
talking to my husband about this manytimes that you know, when it comes
to activism, wrongs for convictions isuh not the one that It's not the
popular one to back. It's notthe one that uh people are like flocking
to that the politicians are flocking to. And I told him why, more

(35:40):
people are getting behind it and weare seeing more exonerations, we are seeing
improvement. You know, it's stilllike you said, it's it's still not
the one that people are you know, Uh, unless it's a big name
organization or really big name people stillaren't flocking to do their money to it.

(36:04):
People aren't flocking to donate their timeand money and energy to all the
smaller names that have been wrongfully convicted. It's just not it's like you said,
it's messy, It's it's controversial,it's dirty, and it's it's heartbreaking
and makes people uncomfortable. People wouldrather justelfortable. That's right, that's right,

(36:30):
And you know, I even thereason I talk about you know,
like people just turning their heads inthe other direction unless it could give them
ratings. I don't want people tothink I'm just out here and like bitter,
Like oh, missus Colin just bitter, like she needs to get off
the bitter train. Like, No, I've been through it. I've been
through a lot for the last twoand a half years of speaking to countless

(36:51):
people. I really have marketed hiscase to people that have influence that could
really help him. I had Iwon't put their names out there yet,
but I had like actual video orconference phone calls with three companies that I
mean, I'm not going to saywho they are, but they're big companies
that could have put out a documentaryabout him, if not just about him,

(37:14):
maybe they could have combined it intolike access the sentencing or conditions in
the South, and he could haveincluded him as like one of the people
that were featured. But that couldhave really done a documentary on a national
level for his case. And youknow, waste the time got on video
calls with them or phone calls whatnot, and just to either not hear back

(37:36):
whatsoever, or after consideration for whateverreason, you know, some generic reason,
they couldn't you know, take iton at at the time. So
again it goes back to, well, I invest my time and either I
don't hear it back from them atall, or if some random reason you
know why, they can't participate.So again it's just I have to wonder

(38:00):
if Leonard had two million signatures insteadof twenty thousand, would it make a
difference then, And then you knowthey're not even doing it for the right
reasons at that point, it's notexactly you know, it's not even a
decision like on a human level.At that point. It's just business.
These guys are I'm not saying thisis everybody, by the way, So
please if you're listening to this andyou think I'm just hating on all you

(38:22):
know, advocacy, innocence organizations andproduction companies, I'm absolutely not. I'm
just from my personal experience, thevast majority of people I have come into
contact with to try to market hiscap it seems like it's a These guys
are a business decision to them,They're a commodity and they're not an actual
human life. They're just a number. M oh yeah. Because when it

(38:46):
comes to people I advocate for aswell, this includes l goes for everyone.
If you're going to I'll that's theperson I'm advocating for. If you're
going to advocate for them, tomake views about them, sure, the
stories, every everything, the wholenine yards. I want you to do
your research. I want you tolook into their case and say, Okay,

(39:12):
I believe with my whole heart thisperson is innocent. I don't want
you to just say, oh,yeah, I believe your shirt whatever.
I want you to say, withyour whole chest, this person is innocent,
absolute with conviction. Absolutely, yeah, exactly, this person was wrongfully
convicted. That's what That's what Iwant, and that's what we all want.

(39:34):
Yeah, because if you're not doingit for the right reasons, I
mean, if you're doing it justfor a Panela back, I mean none
of us, no, none ofus want that. That's not what we're
here for. We're doing this,you know because I mean not only because
Louis had loved ones, but alsoI mean we want to help this epidemic.
I mean, I'm not trying toget you personal, but the that

(40:00):
there are oh well over one hundredthousand people and a sit in prison.
Yeah, it's just I'm not tryingto make it about me. I'm truly
not, but it does. Itchills me to my core. Yeah,
the same thing, Like I don'ttwo months. Like once in a while,
you know, I'll post about mypersonal life, like I was in

(40:22):
the hospital all night the other night, or sometimes about my health condition,
my disability because I've put it outthere that I have cybro miyalda. But
I try not to make it aboutme, and really just I really don't
even really talk about our relationship thatmuch. I don't mind it, but
I try to keep the focus onlike what he's going through. And you
know, I'm not, you know, some celebrity or something. But I

(40:44):
was at the top of my careerwhen I met him. I was making
the most money I had ever madein my life. I had a respectable
job. I had just finally gottentogether the money to move out from living
with my mom because I have nevergotten a dime of child support from my
boys, and I've been a momfor almost twenty years. So for me
to even get to that point whereI could get my own place, and

(41:04):
I was just doing really well,I had every reason to walk away.
I'm saying, turn my head inthe other directions say, you know what,
I finally got my life together,Like sorry, we just met.
I hope it works out for you. I'll pray for you, you know,
But I just for me personally thetype of human being I am,
and not again not to say,like Lou, look at me. I've
got my own problems. I havea lot of things, you know,

(41:25):
I need to change in areas whereI need to grow. But there's no
way I would have been able tosleep at night even if we would have
just stayed friends. Forget the relationshippart of it. That's what I look
at that as a totally separate thing. Like Leonard and I could get a
divorce, and I will still advocatefor this case because I know that he's
factually innocent, But I couldn't sleepat night knowing that he's there and he's

(41:49):
helpless, and like, I mean, how can they really help themselves?
They don't have access to like internet, computer or cell phone. Like most
of the time they're under a lockdownbecause of like people you know, killing
and stabbing each other and there orwhatnot, Like how is he gonnahult himself?
He's got no job, he's gotno money, like nobody's gonna listen
to him because he's in there asa convicted murderer. So they've taken his

(42:13):
voice away, you know, andlike the DA's office and the media,
they got to spend their version ofit and basically gave him no voice.
So I couldn't look at myself inthe mirror knowing that I had a shot
to help him and I didn't.You know, I'm just for me.
I'm not that type of a personand that's not even who I aspire to
be. I would be ashamed ofmyself. Why And I'll what would you

(42:37):
say? Keep seping Leonard going,I don't know if there's a good answer
to that question. I mean,we've we've had serious of separation where we
haven't like really been doing well.I think why we're still together today would
be so Leonard would give one answerthat because somebody else asked me this question,

(42:57):
and I asked him, like,well, why do you think we
made it or why we're still together? He said that our connection is not
physical. We were forced into asituation where we didn't get to have the
physical aspect of our relationship to distractus from the other elements of a relationship.
So we had to build our relationshipemotionally, mentally, spiritually and connect

(43:22):
on that level. And in hismind, when there's that level of connection,
it's stronger and it's more I guessit's a different bond than if you
just connect on physical attraction. It'sa different level. For him, it's
more unbreakable. And for me,I say communication, like we just get

(43:44):
brutally honest with each other. Iam not the type of prison wise so
to speak, where you know,I just want to live in some fairy
tale or like Cinderella story, likeoh I love you and you know you
love me, and we're just gonnabe like happily ever after. Like know,
I talk about like Okay, who'sgonna work, and like I don't
feel well. I don't want tokeep working full time. I've been doing

(44:06):
this for twenty four years, youknow, I want to take a break,
Like are you gonna work when youcome home? Like, okay,
what are we going to do?Because we both have kids that meet us,
Like how are we going to sustaina relationship and focus on each other?
Like you know, I talk aboutlike the real reality of what everyday
life would be like are you goingto go to therapy to you know,

(44:27):
talk about what you've lived through inprison and make sure your head's in the
right place to be a father anda husband when you come home. Like
we have the tough conversations, andalso you know, if I'm feeling unhappy
in the relationships, like we talkabout it. We'll talk for hours.
So I think really like not holdinganything back and just putting it out on

(44:50):
the table has really helped. Butsometimes those conversations can go left. I
think when they really are impactful andmeaningful and bring us closer together and stronger
is when we actually hear each other. Because it's one thing to communicate,
and it's another thing to really seeand hear and like absorb and understand another

(45:16):
person. And so I think whenwe're able to do that for each other,
that type of communication has kept ushealthy. Communication has kept us going.
And how does your family field arethey supportive? I really only came

(45:36):
out to my family this year.I was terrified because, again, like
going back to the environment I wasraised in, whether personally or professionally or
just where I lived, I wasreally afraid of being judged. And so
even in my last company I workedthere for three years. I didn't resign

(45:58):
from there until twenty twenty two,and nobody knew until after I left.
I want to say, maybe onlyone person knew, who at the time
was my best friend, you know, from that company. I really,
for all purposes, was living adouble life, if you want to put
it that way, where I wasmy normal self that everybody knew, and

(46:20):
like I just made excuses for whyLeonard and I didn't live in the same
state, like, oh, wemet, you know, online, and
like he has his life and kidsthere, and neither one of us comfortable,
you know, making the leap toanother state right now, So we're
just having a long distance relationship.And I was terrified to tell my family
because a lot of my family livedthat little white picket fence life. And

(46:44):
you know, I got to thepoint this year. I don't think it
was because of Leonard. I thinkit was me. I am into my
forties now and really had this shiftin my mindset where I just don't give
I mean, I've always been thetype of person that doesn't care what people
think about me, but it gotto like a different level this year where

(47:06):
I'm like, if somebody would judgeme for that without a curiosity to get
from know why first I made thatdecision to be with him or assocate for
him, And they're just judging mewithout the full pictures. And that's not
even the type of human being Iwould want in my life or in my
circle, because that tells me moreabout who they are than who I am.
So came way more unapologetic this yearabout who I am, and I

(47:32):
started to tell more people. Solike half of my company that I work
for now knows. I think literallyhalf, like maybe fifteen out of thirty
people know at my company. AndI want to say, like the important
people in my family that I'm closeto, like immediate family now knows.

(47:53):
The only person that I told rightoff the bat that we were getting married
with my mom, because that's mymom and my kids of course, you
know, living together, always knew, and they, you know, to
this day speak to him on thephone periodically, so they've always had a
relationship. That's not really something Icould keep from my kids or would want
to keep from my kids. Butyeah, I lived a double life for

(48:15):
a long time because I was justworried about, well, if this company,
you know, finds out like wouldI lose my position, Like would
they say it's too much of arisk to their reputation, or would people
look at me differently and not respectme in my role? Or I was
just I found different ways to livein fear until you know, like you

(48:37):
go through I guess different versions ofyourself as life goes on. And this
year like yeah that I really couldcare less, Like it's not telling of
me, it's telling of someone elsehow they respond to my situation. So
yep, okaz say with me.It got to the point where same year
of this year, I was like, you know, it's like I just

(48:59):
don't care or if yeah, peopledon't like what I'm doing? Who I'm
all? You know, I don'twant him in a lilife. I don't
want that kind of person who doesn'thave again world the same values forget all.
Yes, yeah, that's it,that's it. You know, maybe
your your core values are just nota mask for mine, you know,

(49:20):
absolutely? And is his family supportiveof us or his case or both booths?
Yeah, like I honestly, Imean when I was in Mobile and
for his hearing in February, theysome of them treated me better than my
own family does. To me,my honest, so I felt so welcomed

(49:45):
by I spent most of my timewith his uncle that raised him and his
aunt that raised him, and youknow, he like considers them his parents,
and like they're all fighting over me, like who got to spend time
with me? Because they're only therefor like a real a short time just
because of work and money. Soyeah, I mean they're like I think

(50:07):
his aunt that he considers his mom, told him a long time ago,
like, don't mess this one up, because they really like me. I
think his daughter, his oldest one, might have told him sometimes this year,
like she doesn't want him with anyoneelse but me. Like even X
told me like that. He's likeyou're the best thing that ever happened to

(50:29):
him because you have your life together. So like everyone's been pretty supportive.
But I mean, I guess Ican see. Maybe it's because, like
I've been so consistently supportive of tryingto get him home and like really looking
at his case in an objective mannerand getting you know, him a voice

(50:49):
and all that. But or maybethey just like me. I don't know,
maybe it's both, but yeah,and they're I mean, the courtroom
could have used more non family advocates, but a lot of family was there
in the courtroom. So I meanhe does have like those distant family members
that are really nasty to him andlike, you know, look down on

(51:14):
him because of it. But thenlike the people, like the immediate family
members in his life, like they'resuper supportive of him. So, now
do you mind updating us on Leonard'scase today? Yeah, So a little
timeline for those who are like newto following our case or are just now

(51:37):
learning about our case. The acidDavid's of his innocence, Like the two
men that stepped forward to say theyheard a confession from the perpetrator. Those
statements were put on file with alicense investigator in October of twenty twenty.
We used those statements that it wasthe exact same person that Leonard tried to

(51:57):
name to the Mobile Police Department tocreate our Rule thirty two petition, which
got filed with the Mobile County CircuitCourt in April of twenty twenty one.
Then we found out the following Januarythat we would be approved for or we
had a hearing that January to seewhether you know, like what was going

(52:19):
to happen with that evidence and sothat both sides could present their case.
And then in March, so basicallyalmost a year after the Rule thirty two
filing, we got the news thathis evidentiary hearing would happen, that the
judge approved it. So something's happenedalong the way where it didn't happen on

(52:39):
time. But our evidentiary hearing finallytook place this past February twenty twenty three.
And then a few filings have goneback and forth per the judge's request
and per you know, BA andattorney request as well, because there's what
the judge asked for, and thenlike the DA and the attorney will be
like, no, I want tosay a little bit more, and you

(53:00):
know, they'll request permission to saya little bit more. So we're at
the point now where the final filingback and forth was done on September fourteenth
was which was actually our three yearanniversary of meeting each other. And now
we are awaiting a decision from JudgeYork of the Mobile County Circuit Court on

(53:20):
whether Leonard's going to be granted abrand new trial. So what can we
do? What can the listeners rightnow do to support Leonard, and I'll
right now when it comes to hiscase, I probably sound like a broken
record on this one, but numberone would be follow us on Instagram at

(53:45):
Justice for Leonard Coleman and share ourcontent and share our paid with other people.
The second thing I would say isto sign and leave a comment and
share our petition at change dot orgslash free Leonard Coleman. And it's also
in my bio on Instagram, andit's all over my Instagram in case anyone

(54:07):
wants the link. And I wouldsay, if you're listening and you have
a platform where you are a personof influence with a magazine, a news
broadcast, a podcast, like anysource of like getting his case out to

(54:28):
the public, then please consider featuringhis story in your publication because public support
means everything to us. Right now, as you know, we we're trying.
I try. I can't say weekbecause I can't include Leonard or his
family, but I don't want tospeak for them, but I try to
apply pressure where I can in apolite way. So like I just finished

(54:50):
writing an email to the not thedistrict attorney over his current case, but
like the district attorney of Mobile County, I just finished writing an email too
him, you know, politely petitioninghim to open a conviction integrity unit.
But I kind of slipped in theretoo that you know, we're grateful that
Leonard's case has almost twenty thousand signaturesunchanged dot org. Like I try to

(55:13):
politely let them know, like peoplecare, people are watching for the right
thing to happen to him. Hislife matters to like thousands of people,
and I feel like politely applying thatpressure kind of lets them know that he's
not just a faithless person anymore.And so just getting his case out there
is really important to me, andI think important to him too. So

(55:35):
anybody have influence that can help usdo that, we would be I'm so
grateful, and you would be helpinga person that there are multiple factors that
scream factual innocence and many many holesin his Triald transcripts. So I can
attest to this out. When Ifirst looked at the case, the result
get my mind of his instance.I've looked at it and I'm like,

(55:59):
yeah, and everything scringed to meinnocent. And as I got to know
her and I talked to her more, I'm like, yeah, it's just
confirming everything. He's innocent, andI have talked to Leonard. I can
tell you he is just an absolutesweetheart. And that's also I agree.

(56:20):
The more eyes on the case youshare resist in every episode, you're going
to continue hearing me say this inevery episode. The more eyes on every
RONTHL conviction case. The better sharing, signing petitions, U, sharing these
episodes, sharing content such as Instagrampages, submitting it to news organizations.

(56:43):
All that helps more than people realize. And just the power of public opinion,
which which is uh public outcry andsaying, look, we want justice.
That's what gets politicians attention, That'swhat gives the lawmaker's attention, that

(57:05):
what gets the media's attention. Andthere's so much power with the public's voice
and give the listeners out there,you hold so much power and your vote
your voice, and so I justwill keep reminding you of that. Yeah,
and so so we really would appreciateit if you could, you know,

(57:30):
share this episode, share the petitionand learn's petition Instagram page, which
will be linked in the show's description. Definitely you know follow uh look free
Leonard Cole Justice for Leonard coleman uInstagram page. And uh, please submit

(57:52):
it to anyone with a platform,news organizations, magazines, and you know,
I firmly believe with my whole heartwe'll get them home. But you
know what's differently, keep pushing forward. Yeah, let's let's make it more
of a possibility that it will happen, absolutely, because I've set it a

(58:14):
long time ago on my platform.But you know, all of our collective
voices together are like one loud voicethat actually makes a difference. Oh exactly
all. It takes a village,yes, and I've seen it having before
when we all get together what wecan do, and it just I see

(58:35):
it having more than once. Iknow we can do it with learn and
I know we can keep doing that. So certainly, yeah, that is
that's a beautiful note to end thingson. I think that. I think
that rests up like why we dowhat we do, absolutely exactly, And
I want to thank you from thebottom of my heart for coming on my
show. It means a lot.And I'll you know, thank you all

(58:58):
for tuning in and please again andfollow Justice Sproler Coleman sign a petition and
I'll beat and the show's description andI'll tune in again. And I will
definitely have her back on the showand I'll was there anything else you wanted
to say before we slim off?No, I think we did some good

(59:19):
work today. I do too,So thank you again for coming on the
show. Thank you everybodys for tuningin, and we will talk again soon.
Hi. Right, fine, Sootbe afraid is say be Carefusta,
not every light is gone, andcarry your baby. That a very nice

(59:42):
by. Keep you close to her. Hi, I love the fastest gunn
Isha. Your crazy because you rightto the manes and the money. He's
all gone. And then jon't beafraid to say be Carefroosta now that I
feel I didn't gonna get you.Yeah, when I blow up, I'm

(01:00:07):
gonna saw a highlight, Peter Pan, the real life be living on my
dreams. I'm waking up until theformer land whole risk covering up in ice
and stealer ship never asked the priceup