Biological Family Special: ShaVonnda

Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Content warning. The Wards of theState podcast may contain material that may be
harmful or traumatizing to some audiences.Listener discretion is advised. Heylight Shiners,

(00:29):
Welcome to Wars of the State.First Parent, Birth Parent Edition. Heylight
Shiners, Welcome to another episode ofthe Awards of the State. But you
guys know it's May, so youknow what that means. We are representing

(00:50):
birth families, birth mothers, andbirth fathers during this month and representing their
lived experience as they fight for theirchildren and family members through the foster care
system. When this comes out,we will be going to the Black Mother's
March this weekend, so I hopeto see you all there. It will
be May twelfth, it's the actualmarch, and then we will be there
from the weekend which is the tenthdo the twelfth. There's so many events

(01:14):
that are going on. We havea screening of an amazing, amazing documentary
about family policing in the black community, and then on Saturday we're having a
cookout, and then on Sunday,of course it's the March. So I
hope to see you all in Washington, DC. If you want to see
me, I will be there witha black shirt, I believe, or
a red shirt that says Black Mother'sMarch with media on the back if you
want to share your experience. Iwill be recording lift experience of folks on

(01:38):
the street. My team will bethere with our microphones and our cameras getting
y'alls lift experience. So y'all knowI'm a hustler. Y'all know I got
a media company too, Okay,So my media company, Dealer Media LLC,
will be there with our team justgetting y'all's lift experience. And if
you can't make it, please joinus. I will try my best to
stay on live on the Black Mother'sMarch Live on TikTok and swell as my

(02:01):
life on ward of the state.I'm bringing so many backup batteries, y'all.
Uh, So we're going to tryto say live as much as possible
so y'all can catch it. Andif you can't catch it live, I
would do my best to make surethat you guys get access to everything.
So make sure you're following Black Mother'sMarch on TikTok. So we have a

(02:21):
guest that I think a lot ofy'all, y'all y'all all, if you're
listening to this, you probably followme on some type of social media.
There was a story that I coveredlast week or two weeks ago, and
it was Emily's story, and I'mgonna give you a little quick recap.
It was the two white gay menwho were foster parents and pretty much kept

(02:43):
the family from uh doing reunification foreight years. My team and I investigated
that story. We found the familyfirst of all. Actually Amanda from the
Black Mother's March kind of said,hey, Carlos, have you seen this
story? And of course I lookedat it, and when I see smoke,
there's usually fire. But at abouttime that I had reached the story,

(03:04):
they were in reunification. But unfortunately, as we know, people with
privileged power and money do weird things. So they're coming after this family.
They are fundraising fifteen I don't know, first of all, if you got
fifteen grand just go buy another one. And y'all know, I don't even
support adoption, but like, whylike leave this baby alone? But they

(03:25):
are fundraising. And not only that, something that I've also experienced on my
own platform is the way that theytalk about this family. There have been
people on my platform. So thisis coming from me, not the family
directly that are defending these people andcalling names, using racial slurs, homophobic

(03:45):
slurs, saying that they know thesepeople personally. If you go on a
page, all the videos are there. So if this is happening to me
and I just made one little video, can you imagine what this family has
been going through trying to speak outover the last eight years. So I
have the Aunt Shavandah with us todayas a guest on the Wards of the

(04:05):
State podcast, and I want herto share her experience and so we can
all get the full story from startto finish. I know we all saw
parts and bits and pieces or maybeparts that I covered, and I've had
people ask what's the whole story?So this is going to be your chance
to demolish the entire story from thelived experience, from the people who are
actually there. So Shavanda, thankyou so much for joining us on the

(04:28):
Words of the State podcast. Ireally appreciate it. So just start with
your lift experience, introduce yourself,and just start from the beginning. Okay,
Well, Carlos, first of all, thanks for having me again.
Thank you so much for what you'vedone for our story. I really cannot
express how grateful we are because eventhough we've been telling this story for eight
years, you were able to graban audience to really get the story out

(04:51):
because it still needs to be told. It's very important. So I am
Shavanda. I am Emily's aunt.My brother is the actual bye iological parent
that thought. I however, standin to represent kinship care because we definitely
matter and we can be a wholeentire difference in a child's foster care journey.
So I am my brother's sister.Basically, long story short, just

(05:14):
regular people. My brother. Idon't know if people know this, but
my brother was actually in foster care. And I wanted to bring this up
because people don't talk about how theytarget children who were in foster care,
and one we know why, dowe know why they do that and why
they have access to do that?Well, so I just know that they
continue to traffic kids because its easierfor them to see that those children are

(05:35):
mentally unstable. They don't have thesources and resources to raise those children,
and then the children's go so muchdarker than that. So it's actually one
of my fears as a foster youth. If you are a foster youth,
I always suggest moving out of thestate that you were in foster care because
that state has access to your minorrecords. So, for example, when

(05:58):
if you were to get arrested asa person who was in foster care or
have a mental breakdown or fifty oneto fifty, there's no there's no access
to your mental health record as achild because it's sealed. Children's records are
sealed. Guess whose records aren't stealedfoster youth. Yeah, so the state
already has your record. So wesee foster youth being targeted, targeted,

(06:21):
and then when they have a baby, they say, well, you tried
to unlock yourself seven years ago whenyou were seventeen. Yep, how do
you know that? Ye? Andthat's exactly the big part that I left
out because they were like that parentingplan. What happened was after they had
I'm gonna get to that part,but it just needs to be known.
One day, my brother walked intoSocial Service and they had his whole foul

(06:43):
set out in front of him fromhis childhood, and that's when they told
him that, oh, we don'tthink that you are going to be stable
to have So I never mentioned thatbefore, but I know that would have
been important because one of the mainthings that I've combated with this store is
well, it's a father dangerous?Is he your crackhead? Why would they
fight him if he wanted his child? And I was like, I did

(07:06):
that piece of information? Yeah,so essential understanding? Yep. I absolutely
it didn't because it didn't cross mymind and it was one of the things
I learned in the process. Andthen when I was talking to my brother
the other day, I was like, yo, I didn't even tell them
that you were in because I toldmy brother he was a tart as I
was learning, as I was helpingmy brother. So that was I had

(07:27):
started reading and I was reading thestory after story and I was like,
oh, then he said, Yo, they put me in the office.
They said back in the day,mommy, when I was with my mom,
which let's go back anyway. Igot so this because our story is
so deep and it touches so manyaspects from generational trauma, from our mother

(07:48):
to my brother's situation to me,from me understanding all these situations and why
I played the role I played.This is why I was prepared to play
the role that I played because ourfamily is very familiar. And I watched
my mother, even though I wasvery young, two years apart from my
brother. I watched what they SocialService did with her and how they targeted
my brother, and how they toldher if they did not put my brother

(08:09):
on these medicines, that they weregoing to come into her home and take
me and my sister away from herand take all of us. There were
so many things in my mom's backgroundthat affected my brother that really had nothing
to do with you know, he'sjust a kid. He's a black boy,
so he got black boy in thesystem, is what I'm gonna call
it. So long story short,I am shivand like I said, Decarne

(08:33):
is my brother, and you know, I feel like it's my right to
protect him. And in two thousandand it was twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,
fourteen twenty sixteen, my brother gota phone call and basically said that
a baby had been born in thehospital and that he was named as the
father they needed they wanted him tocome. He immediately went to go see

(09:00):
what was going on, check outthe baby, see if it was baby.
He knew it was his baby.He called me immediately because he was
like, man, it was sorandom. He immediately called me. He
was like, I got a phonecall this girl. She had the baby.
She left the baby at the hospital. They said, it's my baby.
I'm gonna get my baby. SoI'm thinking nothing of it at this
time. This is the beginning.I expect DSS to do what DSS does

(09:22):
or whatever. But he was like, yeah, they just told me that
they had to get the paternity testsand then after that she's going to get
to come home with me. SoI was like, okay, cool,
but just in case, just becauseI read things and I had a weird
feeling, I was like, letthem know that you have a sister in
case they try to be funny withyou. And that me and at the
time I was married, Me andmy ex husban, we had a very

(09:43):
successful company, very big home,all this, all the goods, all
everything you can think of. Sowe was like we would definitely. I
knew that we should qualify to beable to get Emily if anything. Also
another reason was it was such arandom occurrence. I was like, man,
dey corn, are you y?Like they just toss a baby out
there like, we got your back. But he was already a father,

(10:05):
right, So my brother is definitelya father and the children's mom. So
my brother is a single dad,like for real, for real. They
try to play my brother and bringmy brother down, but he is a
single dad, like he stepped uphis children, like his three children that
he had prior to the last one. The mom is not is a lot
going on. So he is thatman that stepped up and he's doing the

(10:26):
role that many women do. Heis raising those kids. He's been taking
care of them. Took that onno questions asked, no welfare, none
of that. My brother took thaton himself as a working man. So
when he found out he had anotherchild, he was like, Okay,
that's my child. I'm gonna beresponsible because, for one, he knows
what it's like to not be aroundhis family. My brother had a lot

(10:48):
of foster families. He was inlevel four homes, foster homes, group
homes, he was all over theplace. So we already know. I
already know the trauma of siblings notbeing able to like I know, I
was born into that, you know, so I already know. So he's
like I'm gonna go get my daughter. And I said, okay, fine,
So then he gives me a call. It's like a couple of weeks

(11:09):
following. He was like, yeah, man, everything seems straight. But
the only thing that's weird is SocialServices keep saying to me, man,
they think it's crazy that I wantmy baby. They was like, you
sure you want this baby? Yousure you want this baby? And he
was like, yeah, I wantmy baby. Everything is fine. So
I was like, okay, giveme the number to Social Service. I'm
gonna call and you know, letthem know just in case you gotta you

(11:31):
got a sister. So I startmaking calls of Social Service. I'm not
getting no phone calls back, nophone calls back. I'm like, I'm
like, dey corn, did youtalk to your social worker? Nobody called
me back, Nobody called me back. Still nobody called me back. So
months are going by and deck Horneis still going through several things. So
the paternity test had came back,he was approved and then so this had

(11:52):
to be because before six months hewas already had he had already moved into
the home, it was approved tohave her. So she had to be
around three months because Originally, Emilywas not with the Palmers. Emily went
to a foster family that retired.They said that they they placed Emily with
somebody. That family retired and theygave Emily back and then they gave Emily

(12:16):
to the Palmers. Okay, somy brother got the call saying like,
hey, Emily has a placement.It's with two dads and for them,
you know, they're saying we discriminateand that's but you know, I was,
I was gonna. I was,you know, because you know,
I am on your side. Whatwhat is the homophobia thing? Because that's

(12:37):
all over then? Was there anythingthat's called narcissism and gas lighting? My
mom was in the LGBT community.I walked across town when I was in
elementary school to not get my assbeat. Excuse my language, but because
I was being picked on because mymom. When I was a kid and
inside of my house everything was normal, even know, nothing was weird till

(13:01):
I went in public and people madeit weird. So I'm gonna be very
clear about that. Like my momwas the og LGBT back in the day.
The hairstyle is I didn't know whattheir gender was, but I knew
I was familiar so first of all, and was there ever any mention of
sexuality. Never. Let me tellyou, the only time it was mentioned

(13:22):
and where the comparison only came intoit was which was in comparison to my
brother as a black man, youhave two same sex, gay white males.
He's a straight black man who hasa woman counterpart, So her being
raised is just a completely different dynamicand their foster care. What they were

(13:43):
promoting was the fact that they werea same sex parent. You know LGBT,
right, But I'm all for LGBT. Right after my husband, I
was with a woman for two yearsfollowing that, Like, the stuff they're
saying makes no sense at all.They are creating a story for themselves,
and we won't allow with me,I would. My brother called me and
said, yeah, she has twofoster dads and was like, he was

(14:03):
like, I think that's cool becauseit's just me. At the time,
he didn't have a girlfriend, andhis thinking was she would be adjusted to
at least being raised by men.And I was like, yeah, man,
that's cool because me and my brotherwe think all around things. We
don't got time to hatred, SoI won't tolerate I won't tolerate that slander.
They they are using that as acoverage for themselves to project the image

(14:26):
as a gay man myself who's marriedto a man, a black man.
I've experienced so much racism from whitegay men because they don't think that they
can be racist, and they hidebehind their marginalized identity, which is true.
But I've been said, oh,I'm just as marginalized as you.

(14:46):
That's reversed racism. If you are, you're you're reversed homophobic. And I'm
like, wait, no, no, no, you're just you're just an
issue. You're just probably racist,you're problematic, you're a biggot. That
doesn't make me homophobic by acknowledging exactlythese other things are true exact they were.
Like one of the friends said tome, Oh, you don't want

(15:07):
them to adopt Emily because it's agay, male, white couple. We
bet if it was anybody else,you wouldn't care. First of all,
we don't want her to be adoptedby nobody, so you missed the whole
point. We don't care if itwas Michelle and Barack Obama. You can't
take our baby, bro, youcan't do that. We don't care.
That's what it's about. It's notabout nobody cares if you. Like I

(15:28):
said, I have been through somany different situations. I stay for all
people when I fight for rights.That's why i went so hard for my
niece. I'm an advocate for humanrights. Period. So the baby is
placed with the Palmers. They havebeen saying on social media that there were
no visitations, there were no effortsfrom the father to come visit. What

(15:50):
has happened because eight years is along time, so kind of break down.
Let's break it down. Emily isborn, they're allowing him to see
her, going to the hospital,going to like little visitation station. In
the beginning, when they went tothe Palmers, they were only allowing my
brother to do visitation thirty minute visitsin a Burger King. This is when

(16:11):
she was a new baby, thisburger If you look at my pictures,
if you go back the pictures ofmy brother sitting in Burger King when Emily's
a baby in his lap with thesiblings, that's when they first could go.
Then all of a sudden, theystarted telling my brother okay, so
they had him signed all that paperworkand then my brother talked to me and
I told him, I said,hey, so what they did is illegal

(16:34):
because it is paperwork, the parenting, the parenting. So yeah, they
said that back in the day,my brother got in trouble for marijuana.
Not an attic, never been though, like drug. What they making it
seem that was forever ago. Okay, they tried to say. And then

(16:55):
my brother when he sat down,he was very honest with them and told
them, like in high school hegot you know, he used to get
in trouble trying. He was verybut he was very honest because he just
wanted them to know, like,hey, but this I'm a working man
now, none of this applies.So they were like, oh, you
need to be in drug rehabilitation,you need to be in parenting one on

(17:15):
one, you need to do somethingsomething, every single thing. They had
so many things for him to dothat he couldn't work. He was not
going to be able to work toprovide for the kids at all, and
he kept trying to explain that tothem. They were just dismissing him.
So when he let me know,I went through I read the I read
the parenting plan, and I waslike, hey, this is illegal.

(17:36):
They can't force you to do this, and actually they're supposed to just give
you Emily and broke. You needto focus on getting a house you need.
I kind of became functioning as anattorney because he really didn't know,
and I did knows this is thelaw. So now they're gonna have to
battle me with the law flat outlike that. When he started protesting the

(17:56):
drug classes and the abuse classes,because they tried to say he was the
me I speak violent. He waslike, he's not doing that, and
I was like, yeah, youdon't have to go to work, continue
to go to your visitations, continueto care for the kids, make sure
the kids are good, because that'sthe important part. So they said,
oh, you don't want to dothe parents are planned. You can't see

(18:18):
your daughter. So that's when theyfirst started to do the cutting off his
visitation. So we started going tocourt. It wasn't until the first time
I flew to court they told theyhad called and said we were going to
have a court date and they wereI don't remember what it was for.
I don't know if it was forTPR original TPR, but I showed them
because the caseworker told me that Ididn't need to be present. I flew

(18:41):
from California because something told me,something told me to show up there.
I flew there to show up tostand in as a relative, to show
support for my brother and to explainto them that we had intended on bringing
Emily home and we didn't want,you know, any type of situation.
But I explained to them that theyweren't allowing visitation and that was illegal,

(19:03):
and that I wanted to see herwhen I came there, and if they
didn't allow me to see her,then I was going to continue to contact
more people. So they immediately changedtheir visitation immediately when I came that day,
immediately changed it allowed him visitation.But what they kept doing what's turning
it off. So when they gavehim visitation, they told him he wasn't

(19:25):
allowed to bring the kids. Soso the children weren't able to go.
I don't even I don't even havea continuation. I would have to bring
out paperwork to show how they didthat. But they stopped letting the children
go like immediately, So then mybrother would be able to go here and
there, but then they would itwould only be based on if they allowed
him, which was not supposed tobe, and he never missed a visit.

(19:47):
He didn't and if he did missa visit, he let them know
or would try to reschedule. Butthere was no like consistently missing visits.
And if you look at the ifyou look at the papers, it will
tell you that Social Services and thePalmers actively restrictive visitation so much so for
myself, we were doing FaceTime visits. I had an exterminator come to my

(20:07):
house and I said, Hey,our visit is at three. The exterminator
is actually coming here at three.Is it possible to go at three fifteen
so I can let them in.They wouldn't even respond to follow up.
And then like a month later theyexplained to me like, oh, they
could only do with the with thelawyer tells them whatever that means. But
we had an active reunification plan,so they weren't following it. My brother

(20:32):
came to court with a concussion,as I explained, because he had been
in a car accident and literally wasnodding like in the courtroom and we had
to reschedule. And his attorney saidhe had never seen somebody so persistent and
show up to court so that theywould not take his child. He had
a full blown, visible, unresponsiveconcussion, and that was sad that we

(20:55):
were in court that day, buthe literally couldn't They wouldn't proceed. So
I flew from North Carolina that timeand we didn't even have court and I
just had to fly back because hecouldn't be wouldn't be responsive, and the
judge wouldn't ask me any questions oranything to do with my family. So
they just dismissed me like I wasnot there, over and over and over.
So I know you said, weresupposed to be telling a story from

(21:18):
the beginning. We jumped all overthe place. Okay, they placed Emily
with the Palmers. So now theysat my brother down, told him about
his parents and plan. I startedengaging my brother on what he should do,
things that were happening illegally, andI started getting active. They never
called me back. I never gota phone call. I started calling all
over the place. My ex husband, who was white, actually called and
that's when we got our first phonecall back, and we actually called the

(21:41):
White House. I got a responsefrom the White House literally told me I
called the attorney the attorney general.Is that what it's called. Well,
I went down the whole lines,but I called everyone. I'm like,
hear me because y'all passing the lawsand stuff and they're keeping the shout and

(22:03):
this is illegal, and everyone wassaying, I'm sorry. They did respond.
I did get responses. The WhiteHouse told me that to call them
back. I guess the person whoanswered didn't really know what to do.
That was random, but I didget to speak with somebody. And when
someone finally called me back, Iwas told and they told my brother instead
of calling me, do not callthem. Straight up, they weren't interested

(22:25):
in trying to place Emily with me, do not call them. At that
time, my brother had told them, hey, this is February, we're
going into March. I think itwas March April when he moved into the
house. March April, now Aprilis when. Maybe April was when they
go to the Palmers May June.I think it's in July the summer when
he moves into the place. Some and my ex husband at that time,

(22:48):
we literally just looked for a placearoun brother. We provided the funds,
like literally was like move into ahouse. So he had a three
bedroom front yard, backyard, hiskids, was their social service came.
They did now the paternity test,they did the house investigation. He's a
proof no baby. Oh because nownow he doesn't qualify as a parent.

(23:11):
What is that? But what Idid learn is somebody at that point had
already told the Palmers that there wasa baby for them, So their idea

(23:33):
about adopting was already in their mindwhen they got Emily. So now they
have Emily as a placement. They'refighting my brother tooth and now they're not
reaching out to me. Fast forwardto December, because either distinct moments,
my brother gets a phone call fromthe Palmers. The phone call goes along
the lines of, Hey, we'vehad Emily for a while. We really
like her, our family loves hera lot. We would like you to

(23:56):
give up your rights to to youknow, terminate your rights so that we
could adopt her. Our plan isto keep her with our family. My
brother was like, I'm not withthat. Call me immediately explain that to
me, and I first of all, that's very inappropriate for a foster parent
to do. It's so bold ofthem, you know, that was the

(24:18):
first time. That was the firsttime, and he said no, like
ring, ring, Hey, Iwant you baby, and it was straight
like that, just we mean,we can purdue a lot for her,
we can provide for her. Mindyou, Me and I, me and
my Experstan with my husband at thetime, were actively letting sending our information
in letting them know like whatever thefoster parents I have, we definitely have,

(24:41):
like they don't have nothing. Wedon't have like at all. So
and we're a biological family. Andmy brother said place them. So I
again try to reach out to socialservices. At this time, the caseworker,
he gets a new caseworker. Soit's a mister James Morgan, and
he was a gay, white mailvery racist, very racist. And I

(25:03):
don't know, and I don't wantto say, I don't want to say
it's true, but I feel likehe had a connection with the foster parents
because when that man came in,it was like all all. I have
videos on my page of me callinghim, trying to talk to him.
I don't know if y'all saw theconversations between me and James, but I
recorded all of them. I'm like, you have never called us. You

(25:25):
go into that courtroom every single timewe have a court date. You lie.
If I don't read the paperwork beforewe enter. You have listed infinite
amount of lies. Mind you,My brother had an attorney, but it's
quarter pointed. Quarter quarter pointed attorneyscome from county history. I tell people,
I like, I tell people allthe time, like that's one of

(25:47):
the things that I do is helpfamilies fundraise for you know, counselors,
because quarter pointed attorneys. Who doyou think they go to lunch with?
Yeah, they're writing the check tothe process. If the same person is
writing the corner pointed person's check andthe process to get his check, they
gonna lunch together. Like I've seenit personally, they're like, hey,
Bob, the bill in front ofme, and it was so bad.

(26:12):
It was so bad. First,oh, flash back, the first attorney's
quick when I flow, let meflash back. There's so much going on.
Okay, so there's the first there'sthe first set of attorneys that he
has. So my brother lets meknow what's going on, and I realized

(26:33):
that his attorneys are cricket. SoI try to reach out to find attorneys
in Salisbury. So I made aFacebook poach. I'm like, hey,
is anyone able to help us?We looking for family law attorneys. Somebody
recommends this law firm. Okay,I called the law firm. I'm telling
them my story. The lady onthe phone is like, yes, this
seemed like this is a problem.We want to back you up right.

(26:56):
She said, what's the name ofthe guy. Because I told the story,
I never said my brother's name.I said Decor and Hart got quiet.
She was like, I think wehad his case. Didn't know the
number one law firm that everybody recommendedme to was actually representing my brother for
free. Okay, listen when Itell you, I'm getting furious now thinking

(27:22):
about the lady the most corrupt.I wish people could see this out on
TV. That woman was actively manipulatingmy brother into thinking she was helping them
when she was trying to help themfoster parents get my brother's child. Was
that the foster parents age, No, this is my brother's attorney, who
was a highly known like their agencyis the one, Okay, they're connected

(27:48):
with a lot of their family nameis the family name. And when I
came in there and I sat downand told that lady because she was like,
you're smearing us. She sat medown and looked me on my face.
She was like, I don't haveto represent your brother. I'm trying
to do y'all a favor. I'malready. I don't need you, guys,
I don't need this. I'm tryingto help you. I said,

(28:08):
listen, ma'am, I'm just explainingto you the facts that are here,
right, and we're trying to getmy brother. And I had all the
attorney questions to ask her because asan attorney, you're not active. If
I figured all this out on myown, but I'm not an attorney.
I know that you're not doing yourjob, like I don't know this right,
and you think we're dumb and wheremy brother may not know what's going

(28:30):
on, I'm a little bit morehip than him. Put it like that,
so we're not going to play thisgame. Lady was like, Okay,
no problem. I want to helphim get his child back. That's
what I want to do. WhenI heard about it, that's why I
volunteered. She was a volunteer.It's why she volunteered for the case to
help my brother. Flash forward tothe next court date. I fly to
North Carolina, we get in thereto court. Do you know what that

(28:52):
lady did? Entered into the judgethat she did not want to represent us
no more. I flew from Californiato go to court, stood in court
with no attorneys. So they hadto dismiss that that chrial and we had
to wait to get a new attorneybecause she no longer. She stepped down.
She would not represent us, fine, because you weren't And I was
on to you and that's why youstepped down, because you never had intentions

(29:15):
on helping us with this case.Then they gave us this quarter appointed attorney.
The other attorney was from a firm. She was from like a firm
firm. Then they gave us thisguy the disgust in his face, like
we couldn't even have conversations. Howwas he supposed to help my brother when
he's not even talking to him?How is he helping my brother when they're

(29:38):
actively just like dismissing every single thing. There is no communication, There is
no function, Okay. So whatI started doing, calling news stations,
calling news platforms, reaching out todifferent people. And what happened was,
oh, I don't know if it'sif it's I started reaching out to different
people. Is here okay? AndI had was it? Chelsea day La

(30:04):
here in LA and also someone youknow, people know people in LA who
knew someone doing investigative reporting in NewYork City as well. And what they
did was they called DSS and theycalled that attorney's office because I gave them
everybody's number, and they called everybody. The very next time I saw the
quarter pointed attorney, he said,what is it that you need me to

(30:26):
do so that you can feel likeI'm actively helping you with your case?
Because he didn't and now, Iguess want to be exposed because they were
afraid from the idea from the mediareaching out. So at that point I
wrote down every single question for theattorney to ask them, for them to

(30:47):
ask us to ax the DA sothat we can get our truth told.
And the truth was at that timeI had already reached out about the ICPC
and Raleigh. I had proven tothem at two different trials that a Rowan
County DSS were actively lying by producingmy email receipts from Raleigh, North Carolina.
So I had to reach out toRaleigh, which is above the Lower

(31:10):
County, which normal people can't do. This is literally a supervisor job,
so I'm forcing people to have conversationswith me because no one opened up a
case for me. So they wentin the courtroom and told the judge that
they started an ICPC for me rightwhich would have been entered in that May,
so February, March, April Mayof that year. Okay, when

(31:33):
we go back to court, Ithink it was in October where they tried
to do the termination of rights,they told them that there was no ICPC
on me. There wasn't one becauseyou guys never opened them. And just
for the listeners, because not everybody, because like you said, not everybody
knows, just like how in depththat you know. ICPC is the Interstate
Compact on the Placement of Children.It's an agreement that a family member from

(31:55):
another state can request custody a childout and it's a special type of thing.
It usually takes six to twelve months. It's not an easy process,
but it's not that difficult either.It's just filling out some paperwork, getting
a home study, getting the homestudy verified, having your state verified that
contacting another state. So it shouldtake usually between six and twelve months.

(32:16):
But with then that that six andtwelve months, if that ICPC process have
started, that means that regular visitationswith you should have initiated immediately for this
transition period, because you just can'tjust transition a shout like that. We
have to do a transition period ofmore visits, in person visits, more

(32:37):
in person's visits, online FaceTime visits, and that needs to be regular because
this shout's about to move to anotherday to be and that's going to reduce
trauma. And that's the entire pointof foster care allegedly, is to reduce
trauma. So I just wanted tolet the folks know who are listening,
who weren't as educated what ICPC was. So you guys, you guys start

(32:58):
your ICPC process and what happens fromActually it was so it was supposed to
be starting in May, so wewent to court several times. Now I'm
thinking back, it's supposed to bestarting in May. By July, I'm
still sending emails to Raleigh because thereis not even a case open for me
for an ICPC. But the districtattorney literally told the judge that they opened

(33:19):
the DSS attorney told them that therewas an open, active case that they
reached out. Come to find outall that was false. And I had
emails documenting. Because I had reachedout to the highest of the highest people
and Raleigh, I had to getmy ICPC opened on my own, which
I don't work for social services.How did that happen? So I had
to actually contact them and force themto contact Rowayne County, which is completely

(33:43):
backwards. That's not how ICPC works. It took them a year. Like
I went to court to help mybrother, and the DSS attorney said,
oh, we can't do an ICPCon her if she's in North Carolina.
This is how ignorant it is.I'm here for court, she literally said,
and was arguing, blood, sweatand tears. You na, we

(34:06):
can't, Well, how can wedo in a home investigation if she's in
North Carolina. I just came herefor court, lady. I've been contacting
y'all all year long from California frommy home and no one has come there.
But these were the things that theywere saying in court, which just
it only makes sense when you're workingwith your friends, who could just say
you could do whatever, Because justhonestly, it nothing made sense for that.

(34:30):
So they July August, none ofthis is happening. Finally, I
called California state, because they weresupposed to initiate with California and they didn't.
And so I found all the numbersand I called on my own and
got my own case opened up inCalifornia, and they reached out to North

(34:51):
Carolina and that took them forever.But I saved all those emails to and
they initiated my ICPC. It tookalmost a year for me to even start
my ic PCs. And now atthis at this point, how old is
Emily? So that when we firstwent, when they did that TPR in
that October, so Emily is nota year yet. This simpler because December

(35:13):
calls, they do the phone callin December May they were supposed to do
it. We got license. Ourlicense didn't come into August of was it
twenty seventeen, because you had toget licensed as a foster parent. You
got license as a foster parent.You had to become licensed foster parents to
have Emily placed with us. Sowell, that's another thing you don't have

(35:37):
to that's another thing. That's whatthey forced us to make. Time.
So everything that you can cut time, you can cut time if you are
a resident foster parent, because youare your certified foster parent. But it
also I would not okay, Soit's like a it's like a double edged
sword. I suggest people become fossilparent once they have the children in their

(36:00):
homes, right, because then you'regonna qualify for more assistance because you know
they don't give as much kinship placementassistance as we do foster pay assistants.
Right, So if you do getyour child or a family member in your
home, I always a just registeringas a fosterrent just for extra access to
resources for you and the child.Now I hate what they did with you,

(36:20):
guys, is because they tried touse that as a denial. So
like let's say, if you gotdenied as a foster parent, well,
if you're denied as a foster parent, So that's what they went. They
did that to try to force usbecause they thought we was gonna be denied.
They didn't We were living and theywas so bad that we got Oh

(36:44):
let's talk about that, because tookme out and that's not even a joke.
So we had a beautiful home inthe hills into hunger, everything going.
Well, come to find out youcannot have a foster care placement if
your pool doesn't have a fence aroundit, right, yep, now,

(37:04):
sure that. So there was acouple things that bothered us with that.
First of all, so we didnot own that home, but we were
paying four thousand dollars a month forthat home. Okay, all my children
learned how to swim, all mychildren learned, how, all my children
learned everything there There was no needfor what we felt like they were trying
to police. But the costs tohave a fence put at that home.

(37:29):
At the same time, because wewere looking into buying that home plus everything
else, it just wasn't it wasn'tgoing to be feasible for us. It
was unrealistic and it made more sensefor us to move. So, even
though it still cost us twelve thousanddollars because we lived in California to make
that move, we made that move. Not only did we make that move,
I would like to mention that theyear before, in twenty sixteen,

(37:50):
I purchased a car to be surethat I had enough seats for Emily.
So we was riding around here inmy car with the extra car seat and
a whole open seat because we legitimatelythought we were going to have Emily placed
with us. So not only didwe move out of that home so that
we can be approved as like asfoster parents, because our ICPC process started
and they said, y'all gonna haveto do this. So we found another

(38:13):
home ten times bigger backyard. Right, this was perfect because now we really
set it up and we put allthe videos up there, found a beautiful
home, became licensed, did everythingbecame licensed? They told us that Emily
was going to be placed with usonce we became licensed. What confused me
about it was my brother had alreadybeen approved, and I wasn't necessarily trying
to take Emily from my brother andthen the whole California thing, but it

(38:37):
was like they were trying to forcea situation. So what we told my
brother was our house was already bigenough. We had been making so many
transitions as a family, Like,yo, you guys come out here.
Now it's talk for y'all to comeout here. This is what we'll do.
They already said, Emily can comewith us. We're about to get
approved as foster parents. So youcome to California. Because remember they said
he missed visitations. This is atthis time because he came to California.

(39:00):
He came to California because we hadalready planned that. My ex husband owned
the HVAC company. He was employingeverybody out here. My uncle came down
here and worked for us. Myex husband's best friend came and worked for
us. So then also my brother. It makes sense we're gonna employ the
people that's closest to us to makeit happen. So this is nothing out
of the ordinary. He came here, he began working immediately. That's what

(39:22):
he did when he came here.They said, so the So his caseworker
admitted to not responding to my brother'sphone calls. When my brother let them
know, We let them know hemoved. He knew, and then they
said they didn't know he left.I have an ICPC process. I let
y'all brother, I let y'all knowthat my brother's coming here. Everything that

(39:44):
I'm doing, you guys are arewell aware of. So it's not like
no one knew. That's a boldfaced lie. All that information was there
because they said Emily was going tobe placed with me. Since they were
holding up my brother. I becamelicensed, my husband became licensed, else
became approved. My brother came here, they found the TPR. So now

(40:07):
my brother immediately had to go backbecause we're in California, and they're saying
that he abandoned her, so wealready don't have a personalized attorney, Like
that's what they're saying on their socialmedia too, like, oh, well,
he abandoned her, And I waslike, anybody abandoned her. She
was supposed to come literally to California. She should have been on a plane.
So another thing people don't know.I went through ICPC when I was

(40:29):
a kid with my mom, andI remember my plane fight to go live
with my mom from New York Cityto North Carolina, like I remember it
clear as day. So not onlydo I know about the process, but
I'm well aware that she really can'tmake it over here too, because I
flew on an airplane with a strangerlady and I ate gummy bears, and
I remember that whole time fight,so like I remember, I remember like

(40:51):
the back of my hand because itwas a transition in my life. So
I didn't expect her not to come, waiting, waiting, waiting find out
they initiated the TPR. When wego through the TPR passes and once the
TPR passes, that cuts off myrights as an aunt. So that was

(41:14):
their plan. So even though Ibecame a licensed foster parent and now had
the opportunity to get her, hehas no rights to her as a biological
father, So I have no rightsas a biological aunt. The whole time,
my brother is fighting actively visiting.If you read some of those papers,
like they were comparing my brother tothe false parents, it was like

(41:34):
a chip. They feed Emily strawberries. It was like my brother feeds her
organic strawberries. It was like,actually so funny the details that they found
when they watched my brother interact withEmily, the things that he brought to
her, the type of foods thathe fed to her. We actually had
a lot of problems with the lifestylebecause you got to realize my brother wanted

(41:57):
his child, so the way she'sbeing raised, you're feeding her the stuff
that she eats, the stuff thatshe believes. He has no control on
that. Emily was like they keptsaying, she was sick. She was
on so many medications, so thatwas another reason for denying visitation. She
was too sick to have visitations alot of times. And that was even

(42:21):
through Texas going Lynch were supposed tobe approved by my brother. The first
time my brother denied, he deniedthem a Myrtle Beach trip after they were
denying him visitation. They were sayingshe was sick. She was sick,
she was sick, like she couldn'tbe exposed like they were saying, she
was like bubblesick type stuff. Sohe was like, she can't go,

(42:43):
Like we had just had court.My brother was like, well, I
want to authorize my rights as aparent, and I think it would be
best if she did not go onthis trip, y'all saying I can't even
visit her. So they had thejudge override it just like that, no
second questions, know nothing about it, so people don't realize it really was.
Was everything he was supposed to doonce he backed out of the parenting

(43:05):
plan, which then they proved hedid not have to do, which is
when we went to the After that, when we went to appeal the TPR,
the attorney, whoever that attorney was, now that attorney was a blessing.
That person somebody came in to helpmy brother, and the person that
helped us with the appeal really didin attorney's words put it down. So

(43:28):
that's why we see in the reversal, they was like, they literally have
no grounds. We didn't know thatthey had no jurisdiction, We didn't know
that they didn't file the right paperworkto even have Emily in foster care.
So Emily we going to court basedon motions that were never filed. Well,
see, that was always my questionbecause the moment, the moment I

(43:50):
was if I was involved in thecase eight years ago, the moment that
he got that paternity test and itsaid I'm the father, I'm walking to
the Palmer's house, knock you onthe door, give me my child.
Because why didn't he do that incourt? Because he had every He literally
had every right because he doesn't havean act, he doesn't have an active

(44:13):
DPS case, CPS does not investigatinghim. She is not his mother.
Is her mother gave her away.But I have every right as a father.
I would knock, knock. I'vehad clients who I said, go
get your baby the cars. Ican. Yeah, I looked at the
paperwork. I was like, thisain't saying they're not. No, you
can't. The moment that you signthat that parenting plan. You are admitting

(44:36):
all I'm going into agreement with thestake with That's where they get you.
I don't sign that parent I tellpeople, do not sign that parenting plan
without people knowing. If you signthat parenting plan or try to if you
have a court appointed attorney, thatattorney has due diligence to let you know
that you don't have to. That'swhy when we went to the Supreme Court,

(45:00):
they was like, that's void.This is bull this void. They
made this pair to play and guesshe signed it. It's void. It
doesn't even even if he did.And that's what I was explaining to my
brother. Now, some of theselaws, this one, you need to
be a good a time. Ineed to become an attorney. I'm telling
you, because this is not gonnawork. You don't have to do this

(45:20):
this. I know that much,but I didn't know how to. I
didn't know, just like all theproper due diligence, and I didn't know
how deep stuff was till the TPRreversal came out and I saw it in
Layman's terms through with the attorney.Because I never that was during COVID,
that was actually done online. Inever met with that attorney. He never
spoke to us, to me,and he just went through to review the
process of the case itself. Becausewhen you go to get a state appeal,

(45:45):
the people who appeal your case,they it's only the information that was
involved before. We can't give himnew information. We can't try to plead
our case. They can only reviewthe facts of the case that was there
and decide what was right or wrong. They only needed one, I think
out of there was six reasons listed, they only needed one to qualify for
their TPR. None, not oneof them, not one, not one

(46:12):
saying there's not any like they didn'thave the right to do with There was
no abuse, There was no hehad an active relative. He actively was
consistently trying to be in his childlife. He never gave up. He
was actively raising and as it states, three other children, two with whom
were on the on the row.My niece was making straight a's at the

(46:32):
time, like straight up being acheerleader. These are things I'm proud of
of my brother, and they aretrying to vilify us like no one's perfect.
We're just humans. You know.My brother, he's a rapper,
he be doing he's a skateboarder.You know, he's still him, but
he is a father. So allhe did, like the only thing my
brother did for all these years isactively show up when he could reach out,

(46:55):
continue to fight and then trying toraise his own children. Caught us
every step of the way. Sonot only did they call my brother at
that time, the following year theycalled I think the first time. They
offered him ten thousand dollars. Thenthey offered him fifteen thousand dollars. But
they physically offered cash my brother,I know, And so this is how

(47:16):
both because they think my brother isignorant and an addict, probably would have
took that money. Somebody struggling inthe way that they wanted us to be
perceived to be probably would have tookthat money. My brother did not want
their money and was so offended becausethat ain't need for one. You don't

(47:37):
know us, that's not even enoughmoney for nothing. We are kind of
actually bougie people over here. Meand my brother don't even know us.
Okay, you really just disrespected usin such the worst A couple of zeros
and I might have copped up.I saw my baby, but at least
they god but no, y'all didthousand dollars what my household makes. Well,

(48:04):
the black people are broke, likewe make My family makes ten thousand
dollars a month, so like,what is not this is not a month
of income for a trial. Andthat's what they kept I'm telling you under
court. They was like, howdo you guys have enough money for the
one? Me and my too?Like my father's said they own their houses
and stuff like my mom. Likewe might not be the best, but

(48:27):
like in Brooklyn on Brownstones, liketop you can search the deeds you don't
know, like families. Our familieshas been affected by the years of trauma
that has been put on the blackcommunity. So let's talk. That's that's
where the first effect came in.Okay, but don't act like we are
savages, like we don't have ship. That's why my brother fought so hard
for his kid. And they wantus so bad to be that image that

(48:51):
we are not. Like, yeah, he may have you caught him smoking.
He told you he smoked, Sowhat you know, how many people
smoke, like pretty much legal andhalf of the country. And what bothered
me about the Palmers is they triedto vilify us in a way in the
courtroom, they said, my dots, Emily, won't we have tattoos on

(49:12):
our face? I just never forget. They was like, you know,
these people, they have tattoos ontheir face. And I looked at my
brother tattoos cultural why not even that? They're not tattoos? So that's what?
Wait, what wipe them off?They're not even tattoos. Listen.
They tried me so hard on thestage. I didn't tell I wouldn't.

(49:37):
I wouldn't even budge on that.But I made it very clear. They're
not tattoos. I said, they'respiritual, represented, past, present,
future, self, universal awareness.It's a part of who I am.
Very deep thing. Yeah, forsure. But they're not tattoos. I
put them there every they're literally nottattoos because I find the significance in placing
it there. Said all this instand. They say, so it's not a

(49:59):
tattoo. So it's not a tattoo. It's not a tattoo. I said,
it's not. And I'm not gonnawipe it off of my face either.
Bro, I've been doing this beforeI got him. You were born.
That's like asking a Muslim woman touncomfort That's exactly how I felt undertand
so that I felt in such away, I felt spiritually attacked on such

(50:22):
a level because yeah, I'm black, but another part of me and people
who know me, is my spiritand my intuitiveness, my guidance, just
my overall being. That is apart. Now you really messing with me,
and you already are trying to vilifyme in a way that's not me.
You want me to be an angryblack woman. You're upset that I
can articulate myself. You're upset thatI'm defending a black man. You're upset.

(50:45):
We remember we're in the rural whiteSouth Statisbury, Rowan County. That
place taught me about racism when Icame from Brooklyn, I learned about you
know, in school, when theyteach you about being black. I thought
that was from back in the day, for real, real, So I
thought we were learning history. Idid not know that there was still places

(51:06):
like North Carolina that was so fullof hatred, like the Yeah, I
never that ship. To this day, I'm scarred in a different type of
way because like I feel like somedays I get mad at my mom.
I'm like, what you ain't right? That's why I fight so hard in

(51:27):
cases like this. I grew upand I was I just recently last week,
I went to my hometown where Iwas adopted. I was the only
black kid in the entire town.I was at my church, I was
the only black kid in my school, and it was like Confederate flags every
Yeah, like people. I gotcalled the N word at church several times.
All these all this immense racism.I think that it's important, Like

(51:52):
even in cases like this, evenif the Palmers were good people, in
my opinion, they are not.Yeah, you are not surrounning yourself by
other good people who are going tosupport you taking a family away. And
then I, like I said atthe beginning of the show, I personally
have interacted with people who say theyrepresent y'all because if it come from me,

(52:13):
because I got received. I talkedto one of your students and then
a neighbor, and they were literallyracist. They literally were like microaggressions don't
exist, privileges And I know thempersonally, and I'm just like, are
you the representatives? Who is thiswho they surround themselves? Well, dude,
you should have seen the mother whenI met it was one of the
moms that was in court, likemy stomach, Like after that, I

(52:37):
just worried about Emily because a lotof things happened to children in foster care
placement. And now you know,one of the things they told us like
at very like Emily was a coupleshe was having UTIs and like I had
four kids at the time, mybrother had three. We have all daughters.
We never we had never heard ofa baby having UTIs, Like,
so this is so when we learnedthat, we just felt like, Okay,

(53:00):
so you don't you don't know howto watch something. You don't know
the parenting that you know because you'retelling us she has all these sicknesses,
all these ailments. You guys havenever been parents before. We haven't experienced
this, y'all giving her regular milk. We don't drink regular milk in our
family. That's why she's sick.But you won't listen to us. You

(53:22):
don't know us, You don't knowher. You want her to be a
part of you. They were doingso many things and not understanding how our
telling us that our dad because we'reGuyanese, telling us in the court that
they speak English in that country.So it doesn't matter about Emily's culture.
What what bro you go to Brooklynand those flags if you guys Jamaica Haitian,

(53:47):
But your flag is your flag,like we are proud. So if
Emily was to go to New York, that is what she would be recognized
as you know, even as adescendant. Those are those are her relatives.
They told us that that didn't matter. I went to cosmetology school,
but I've been doing hair since Iwanted them black girls born to do it.
Okay, sat in the courtroom andtold me that they took a course

(54:09):
on black hair care, so theyhad enough knowledge to know how to care
for Emily. Oh, not awhole course, mind you. I had
submitted several photos of my children's hair, the kid's hair, because we felt
like these are things that matter.You want to talk about, Mike,
that's racism telling us that everything aboutus don't matter and that the only thing

(54:30):
that mattered was these men who hadbeen in her life and raised her.
Ultimately, at the TPR, thejudge told me that we're not going to
place Emily with you. We feelshe needs a more conservative upbringing and that
she has known I said, youknow, this is a joke, and

(54:53):
nobody's here to help us, becauseif anybody else would have been in that
courtroom, they would have heard whatthey would have saw, the mockery,
the disrespect we in the South.This Two gay white men got an article
in the Charlotte Observer right now aboutbeing discriminated against when they go out to
eat. And I know they notlying because they too when I first One

(55:20):
of the first things they're saying isthey were facing issues being and they want
to call me a hater. Bro. I can't stand people like them.
They were stating before I knew whatwas up, they were trying to adopt
before and they were saying they werebeing discriminated against as an adoption adoptive couple.
I personally, in my own right, thought that was wrong. That's
a whole different topic. But youdon't bought yourself over here, try to

(55:43):
steal a baby, put your rightsabove our rights, try to dismiss and
now you messed everything up, becauseI definitely like when I first heard that,
I was like, oh, thatis messed up. I also told
them try to find another child,though, like, if y'all really want
another, maybe this one don't needit, And y'all messing us up.
Like I said, they destroyed uslike if I'm just being honest in a

(56:07):
way, like we have one atthis point, but we're still fighting.
But they destroyed a lot, bro, They destroyed a lot. Like I
said last time when I came intotears, because my brother has children.
My brother already came from a traumatic, big background. He has been spending
his life just trying to find youknow, heal himself by being a father,

(56:30):
by being there, and he gotpeople. They put a private investigator
on him every time he go inthere, and they try to make him
feel less than they wasn't letting himsee his child, then they were stopping
his children from seeing his children.Then he has his own personal life,
things going on, things in ourfamily that's going on. Stuff like that.
Me and my ex husband, wewere already we were already having our

(56:51):
differences. But as I said,this case created so much you really don't
realize how much of it it affect. Like, sure, we're arguing because
it is he think we're wrong becausewe're not praying to this god. Because
that's why Emily went to here.Why am I trying to help? It
was so many other new little argumentsthat would have never been there. We're
losing money because everyone's in North Carolina. Max husband had to go. We

(57:15):
lost seventeen thousand dollars on one tripand then our business actually ended up plummeting
aft like after that. And alsoyou also have to remember, like COVID
is right in the middle of this, that's affecting people's mental health, physical
health, emotional health, right,so they definitely see that really quickly though.
We're going to take a quick break. We're going to take a quick

(57:37):
break when we come back. Iwant to hear the after TPR was revisioned
and it was appealed and canceled out. I want to hear that process,
and I want to have more questionsabout how is that transition. I want
to know more about the transition dayand then where you guys are, how
you guys are doing now, andwhere you are now. So we're gonna

(57:58):
take a quick break and we'll writethat Heylight Shiners, welcome back to the
show. Make sure you're leaving aone, two, three, four,
five star rating review five stars.Please. This show is a great example
of how people are ignored, howvoices are silenced, how light is snuffed
out, and it is it ismy work, my life work to ensure

(58:22):
that people continue to be able tospeak, continue to be able to shine
their light. And for me todo this, I need y'all to share
with your family and friends. Sonot only do you leave me a five
star rating review, share with somepeople, share with some people that you
know, Share with some people thatyou don't think might be even interested.
Because child welfare, the way thatthe family policing system is going, it's

(58:43):
going to effect a lot more ofus. And the more that we the
knowledge is power. Right. Themore that we know, the more resources
that we have connections to. Evenif you just listen to the story and
you know your neighbor's going through this, share it right so other people can
be empowered with his knowledge that we'vealready gone through with our lived experience as

(59:04):
kids who've been in the system andas family members who've experienced the family and
policing systems. I also wanted toonce again remind you guys that we are
doing the Black Mother's March this weekendMay twelfth in Washington, d C.
So if you're on the East coastand you have time to come out and
support. It's going to be afull weekend of events from May tenth to
May twelfth. I will be therewith my team and I will be ecstatic
to meet you and get some ofy'all lift experience at the march as well.

(59:28):
So, without further ado, Iwanted to get back into Shavanda's story
and how Emily was reunited with youall. So if you guys can tested
the TPR, you guys appealed it, you won the appeal. What happens
after the appeal was one. Soafter the appeal was one during COVID time,
who we were ecstatic. We thoughtEmily was going to be coming home

(59:53):
because that was what we thought,but it did not. What happened was
the Foss parents actually filed a suitagainst my brother and to Social Services for
custody of Emily. They filed anemergency custody and then a no contact basically
order. How can they do this? Did they give up their their foster

(01:00:14):
license? Because how can you bea register certified foster parent suing CPS?
It doesn't, that doesn't. That'sexactly of interest. So what I do
know is that they had an adoptionattorney. Attorney the entire process, so
I know that's separate from DSS.And I'm not sure if when something didn't

(01:00:35):
work out, like when the reversalof the TPR, then the maybe the
adoption attorney or something, because rememberthey have their own whole circle of things
going on on their side. Butthey sued for custody so that DSS was
no longer involved in the case andthat it would only be between way way.
Yes. Wait, so if DSSis no longer involved in the case,

(01:00:59):
how she placed with them? Stillthey're not exactly Oh god, oh
my god, exactly because our story. Listen to that exactly, listen to
what you just said. As soonas I found that out, I said,
no, no, no, no, this doesn't even this is again
we keep being it's like a weirdrabbit hole. This doesn't line up.

(01:01:21):
They can't do that. No,they have her custody. They're trying to.
They're trying to make it like likelike like like they're the couple and
this is a custody. That's exactlywhat they say. How did they do
that? So they got so andI think honestly think it was a setup

(01:01:42):
because social they gave the custody tothe foster parents. So services didn't fight
the foster parents back. Weird,right, So they gained the custody,
and you do have to go throughfamily court if custody was given to them
to contest custody, because now thisis a family court issue. We're not
in DSS no more, right.So I at that time, after that

(01:02:06):
time, so things had gotten reallycrazy, and I told my brother,
look, you got to figure itout. I can't keep I'm losing everything.
I started my divorce. There wasso many personal things I went through
following that TPR I because I becameseverely depressed. So when they did the
reversal, I was already in atransition now, like transitioning back into things.

(01:02:29):
So he just kept going to court. Basically he would go to court
and call means because at this point, I can't keep flying back and forth,
especially because he wasn't even given hisvisitation. He kept cutting it off,
not allowing it. So he wentto court. The attorneys found him
some more new The last attorneys thatrepresented him again randomly heard that they were

(01:02:53):
in their office and heard the casebeing talked about and called my brother and
was like, hey, you gota daughter. They knew him and called
him and said, we're going tohelp you get your daughter. So that's
how he got. The last attorneysthat helped him. Those weren't they weren't
quarter appointed. They just happened tohear what was going on and they wanted
to help him. So the battlejust began. And basically the only thing

(01:03:17):
my brother could do at that timewas just heap going to court because now
at this point he's fighting the fosterparents. And I kept getting upset even
at my brother's attorneys this time,because I'm like, hey, I don't
feel like they're active. It tookus four years to get it back.
That CPR was done in twenty twentythe reversal, so Emily stayed with them,

(01:03:38):
and I think and was DSS involvedat all in this time or no,
Like they just washed their hands ofthis. So I guess DSS washed
their hands, But I want tomention it. It's weird because before when
they told us that we would whenwe they told us that if we won
the appeal, it would go backto the trial courts and we would have

(01:03:58):
to start over. That means DSSwould have to be involved, because how
are we starting over a trial courtswith Well, then that would mean see
this is if they were doing theirjobs correctly. The immediately when that appeal
was granted, right and TPR wasreversed, CPS would then have to you
would have to have an emergency shelterhearing, like it would be like Emily

(01:04:20):
entered foster care that day again,and then they would have to prove that
your brother was unfit. And ifthey couldn't prove in that shelter, which
they wouldn't be able to at thatpoint, right, Yeah, then they
would have to release that day.No, So what the foster parents did
was ordered emergency custody. They saidthey feared for Emily's safety. They court

(01:04:42):
ordered my brother to start being drugtested. Now this is not social service,
this is the foster parents. Theyordered Hairstrand drug tests on my brother,
and they ordered they canceled visitation andsaid that he would have to start
taking these classes in order to havevisitations with Emily. Then my brother found
out that he completed whatever he wassupposed to do, even though it was

(01:05:04):
nonsense, that the foster parents hadsomething they were supposed to do, and
until they completed their part, hewouldn't be allowed to have visitation, so
of course they didn't do whatever theirpart was supposed to be done. But
he did get random spir rout.They keep saying that that's him, that
was them allowing those random, sporadicvisits. So like my brother would call

(01:05:28):
and be like, hey, Igot to see her today and we have
the one picture with the crazy hairstory. That was one of the visitations.
But they were few and far inbetween. I couldn't have any as
you see, I sent emails,I sent messages to the Palmers. That's
what I did to reach out tothem, and they never responded to any
of them. You know, whenher birthday time would come, I would

(01:05:49):
send a message, Christmas time wouldcome, I would send a message like
hey, don't forget us. Butthey never they never ever responded. But
what Chip would do is and Iguess all it makes sense now. They
were looking for evidence. They wouldcome on my Instagram. They would come
on my private page. I havea private Instagram that's personal for me that

(01:06:11):
I had to make separate from him. But I noticed whenever I would make
a post on this page, theywould be on this page. Whenever I
made a post on my personal page, they would pop up here and there,
here and there. They would popup on the Facebook. So I'm
like, okay, they're doing likea stalking thing. So we just my
brother just continued to go to court, go to court, go to court.
And then in March four years later, because he went all these years,

(01:06:34):
he was just going to court.What they were doing was hoping that
time would pass, which was theirstrategy, and that nobody would want to
send her back. I don't knowwho that last judge was that says send
that baby home, but he putthe foot down and was like, she
can't stay. You guys have nogrounds. You have to make her go
home. So the last person,whoever, I don't even know how,

(01:06:57):
but my brother called me shop becausehe went in the court and said he
had no expected of just being honest, like he going didn't think nothing.
He had a friend come up there, you know, just to give some
insight on him, but he didn'tthink nothing. He said. They said
they had she had to they hadto give Emily back. I do know
that there's a statue, and I'mpretty sure it is at eight years.

(01:07:19):
They have to decide if the childI thought maybe seven, if the child
will legally stay in foster care.That's a whole different statue if I recall
correctly, it's been a while,and I know that she had turned eight
a couple of weeks before February,so there she was back with us.
So how did that transaction? Transactiontransition? Because that's really like, you

(01:07:43):
know, bro, they had usgo pick her up the day before was
it easter? The day before Easter? In the parking lot? So he
has SAT's parking lot, So like, no, no therapy, no group,
no like did you guys? Didyou guys like talk like hey,
like, this is so dramatic,and this is so traumatic for the child

(01:08:08):
because with all due respect, yes, y'all or her family, but Emily
does know these people. Yeah,and that shit like if you really love
her, you should have and youlost, you lost. She's going home,
so if you really love her,hey, y'all, this has really
been difficult for all of us.I know we've been assholes. We just
really loved her. But I'm happythat she's going back. Can we slowly

(01:08:30):
do transitions? Where can we comeand visit her? Can we be on
a visitation schedule? Is there anything? Can we start the family therapy just
between the mod like Auntie, Dadand us and Emily, so we can
work this out or at least dothat transition with her. No there first,
their first of all, Their wholeidea once she came was we're public

(01:08:51):
enemy. So they did the wholeFacebook thing. The judge ordered us to
go back. We can't believe this. I can't explain everything. So we
already knew we weren't good friends.But my brother and I'm gonna tell you
now better than me, because hadit been up to me, it would
have been cold turkey because I don'tdo Stockholm syndrome. Okay, if it
would have been up to me,but I understand psychologically, so okay,

(01:09:12):
my brother tried to be nice.They gave Emily it told you, they
air attacked her. They sent herwith a tablet, They sent her with
a phone. I immediately was like, no, she don't need No,
we can go get her phone rightnow in the tablet. No, because
this is not something that's not right. Is a setup. They had instructed
Emily to call the police all dayclaw and if they expected anything, they
had told her so much stuff thatwas already weird. So they my brother

(01:09:38):
was allowing her to make a phonecall if she wanted to supervise, just
because he really is sometimes too nice. I got we had an argument,
like we fell out over this.Honestly, when we went and got Emily,
this was another whole argument because Iwas like, Bro, they're setting
you up. They're not your friend, and what they won't do. So

(01:09:58):
my brother's girlfriend is white, clearlythe new baby everything. The Palmers refused
to talk to my brother and theyonly communicate through the girlfriend. This is
a girlfriend, she not even shewasn't even here for the struggle, Like,
this is a girl like that's likehe's been there for a while now,
like the past couple of years.So it's is, yeah, she
but will you know her? Youknow, she doesn't know y'all. Like

(01:10:24):
she doesn't know y'all. We've beentrying to communicate with y'all for eight years.
So now all of a sudden,you can communicate with the white woman
with the with the white girl,yeah, and trying to manipulate her.
So they and I had to tellmy brother listen, Haley, listen,
I appreciate you because you're sweet,but you are not an attorney. Baby.
You you don't know what you're doingwith them, and they are manipulating
you. And I'm telling you nowbecause you got a kind hart, but

(01:10:45):
we can't. We can't beat thesepeople. So I literally took the phone
out of Emily's hand on one ofthe last phone calls because I was like,
hey, you're gonna have to callthem back, and she was,
you know what's crazy? Did younot? My brother sent me pictures yesterday.
He's he said, Emily, don'teven ask about them. And you
know everybody's been asking and wondering.But I'm gonna be real like this from

(01:11:10):
my body getting hot saying this,because I do think it's weird. I
was worried that when she came itwas gonna be she crying, she missed
these people. They did this forher. My brother is a whole different,
Like it's a vibe. Emily camein that house. My brother when
when I heard him say, he'slike, yo, it's like she just

(01:11:31):
been here this whole time. Mmhm. They had her on so many
different medications, of course, becausethat's what they do with foster kids.
My brother is already slowly like goingthrough because he know the medications they had
them on him. He's like,yo, she came here, she was
so zoned out at times, likejust came, you know, the same,

(01:12:00):
aimless, continuous. Emily really longedin her soul like they may have
been good people, but I kepttelling them she came from good people.
Y'all wanted us to be something else, but her soul gonna long for us

(01:12:21):
because we those type of people likeyou you don't even know what you're dealing
with, Like for real, I'mgonna fight you to the ends of the
earth behind this. And now she'sback. And I have been waiting for
my brother to be like, man, I don't know, it's so hard.
Nope, he just like, man, we gotta go to the park.
We're going to this, We're goingto that. She is like perfectly

(01:12:41):
fine. It's actually just crazy,Like you know, I guess in time,
you know, more developed, justgonna be more things that develop about
her. But right now for herto be a kid that just came because
I know when I came to mymom from my grandma, that was one
of my biggest To this day,I still think I'm affected by it.
I never you know, I'm stillbut I remember how I was. But

(01:13:02):
when I watched Emily, I waslike, yo, she been wanting,
she been She know that girl issmart, she's very smart. She know
that that wasn't she had to havefelt something, so we don't. We
weren't in that home. That's theother thing. And I saw one person
not only stud and they knew them, but I saw a comment that said

(01:13:26):
I found out that they were verballyand emotionally abusive to Emily a lot.
And honestly, the way she isreacting on psychology is my thing. That's
why I'm going to school for thathas always been the study of people.
The way that Emily is behaving.She didn't and when she when I when
we picked her up in that parkinglot, the way Emily stood there cold

(01:13:48):
while they were hugging her. Shewas standing like this and like like this,
you know how a little kid.You trying to stiff kid. And
they were doing all this right,and she was just standing there. And
then it wasn't until other day theystarted saying stuff in her ear and then

(01:14:09):
she started crying. But her bodylanguage was very and I feel like they
put fear on her. They triedto put fear on her all these years.
When I show her pictures of hera newborn baby with her dad.
Did a couple months with me,a couple months with all my kids.
And because we came to see yougirl, We was there, my kids

(01:14:30):
was looking. We had your pictureon an altar in my house. Those
people think I'm playing like Emily's picturewas up. I'm burning sage. I'm
doing everything, rain dances, anythingpossible to try to bring her back to
do that situation. So it tookfour more years for us to just go
pick her up in a parking lot. And now that's the end of that.

(01:14:55):
And that's with a therapist. Y'allain't know nothing. Y'all just send
that girl back eight years of eightyears of stress, heartache, headache,
financial debt, and it's just parkinglot. Go pick her up in a
DSS parking lot. So just suchservice parking lot the day before Easter,

(01:15:20):
and don't offer no resources, noemotional support, no therapeutic support, no
edification support, not even like securityscreening to protect them, to be sure
the position goes smooth. You know, we don't know what's gonna happen right
here. They don't want to giveher away and they and it was funny
because the fossil I had bought Emilysome purple flowers Kato, her little her

(01:15:43):
brother picked them out for her.We knew we wanted to welcome her.
So I'm standing there with the flowersbecause that we're going to greet her with
the flowers, She's gonna come thatFoster dad looked at me and pulled Emily
right around and intentionally did not breakLike, why are you trying to block
the girl? This is a yousee, these are purple flowers. You
know her favorite color is purple.You know she gonna want these flowers.

(01:16:03):
Why would you intentionally try to pullher away, like as if I'm not
here? Yeah, completely ignore me. And I flew from California in the
middle of the week, So like, so, what what are they doing
now? So we know that they'veraised the fifteen thou what is They've lost

(01:16:26):
the DSS case, They've lost thefamily court case. So I don't know
who their attorney is for. Theyare suing because Emily was with them.
They're suing on I guess paramount rights. They assume that they have that they
don't, but they want to makeit seem like my brother is a danger
that my brother does not because thisis all, this is literally their grounds.

(01:16:48):
They are trying to make it seemlike basically my brother is like a
dad black man. Yeah. SoI'm standing there with the flowers, like
I said, we had, youknow, it's easter. We got these
two of us for her, andthey just go around me, like literally
pull her and look at me asif I'm the scum of the earth,
and then escort her to my brother. So I just thought that was extremely

(01:17:11):
disrespectful, because, for one,why are you intentionally trying to make her
feel like she's not being welcome,Like you already asked us not to bring
all the kids. Yeah, youalready asked us. So you didn't bring
her siblings there to the thing.I don't even want to talk about it.
I don't even want to talk aboutI try to let my brother,
you know, So everybody, everybodyin the neighborhood would have been there,

(01:17:42):
because that's how I felt. Butthey had talked to the girlfriend, my
brother's girlfriend, and you know,decided it would be best if they didn't
bring too many people. It couldn'tbe me. I was so angry about
that. I still think about it. So we did not take them all.
We only took the little the onethat y'all keeps seeing in the picture.
He did go, but we didn'tbring everybody. They just showed up

(01:18:03):
and they didn't bring a her certificate. So I had to ask for that
stuff to let them know that weneed all her you know, all her
official doctor. Yeah, and theywas just like, well, I don't
know how that's gonna work. Andthen before storming off, they was like,
thanks for destroying a little girl's life, and then got in the car
and slammed the door and yeah,I was childish and I stuck my tongue

(01:18:28):
out. So that's what what doesthe future look like? So they're raised
their thirteen thousand. They have thislawsuit or whatever they have. They send
you, guys, any information onthis lawsuit that they're trying to fundraise for.
There's a couple of things. That'sa couple So we are still fundraising
because basically, the attorneys who didrepresent my brother told him that if they

(01:18:51):
want him to want them to continueto help him, they that he has
to pay them fifteen thousand dollars.So he doesn't have an attorney right now
at all. And so we're notsure how we're supposed to find out any
information. But according to them,and I do believe them, they have
found an attorney who specializes in thisin these cases, they have definitely raised

(01:19:15):
the money, So I do haveconcern. I'm trying to move my brother
here. We have been actively looking. Yeah, it's crazy because we already
did this and they destroyed like this, this one. I'd be wanting to
cry because like it could have alreadyhappened, like that was the plan and

(01:19:35):
we was so much better. Youknow, that's just a whole nother separate
situation. But I don't have thespace at all now for like, and
I keep trying to put it inmy head, but I'm like, wow,
I really can't. So I'm like, trying to move to California now
is crazy. It's crazy, andwhere he lives at it is Do you

(01:20:00):
guys want to fundraise ten to fifteenthousand dollars for your brother to keep fighting
these people or do we want tofundraise ten to fifteen thousand dollars to get
him up out of that state becauseI must give them a new beginning.
No, So that's we've been tryingto, honestly, is to move because
we can try, but we Iam so scared, like I don't trust
a single attorney. I don't,I don't and over there it's been years,

(01:20:25):
like somebody could have been stepped upand been like, hey, you
know the people who have done sothank you to them. But like civil
rights attorney, there's I paid foran attorney that played our face, like
so much other stuff that went intoit. So we don't know, and
we are trying to move him.Like I just was like, forget it,
y'all are just gonna have to comehere. But I only have two
bedrooms, like my living room ismy room. Now this is my setup

(01:20:49):
because my kids got to have theirspace because our transition has been so hardcore.
So like I'm actively in school,I'm working full time. My brother's
working and trying to get him hereis almost impossible. But he's not safe
there. We have received so manymessages telling us to get him out of
there. Not only that we knowthat the law enforcement, we know that

(01:21:10):
the local council. These people arewell informed. My brother's case was extremely
popular, Like I said, hislast attorneys found out because it was being
discussed in the office. He hasbeen told Tom his attorneys also told him
to move. He needs to notonly leave Rowan Cobert's County, but the
neighboring counties. So he needs theentire state to live, the entire state,

(01:21:35):
right, And we're trying to Butnow you realize you do have now,
you do have fun for now,I know, I know, so
that the plan is rather you guyshave to prepare to fight them back or
prepare for your brother to move hisfamily to pretty much run away from harassment,

(01:21:58):
is what it is. I thinknow they can't they won't have a
case. They won't have they won'teven be able to pull a case on
him. But right now I thinkthey still have a private investig They've been
used, like I said, aPI all kinds of stuff on him.
So I am like I've been lookingat I've been looking at all the areas
here trying to give out so letthe folks know, because we're wrapping up

(01:22:23):
now that I feel like now wegot I feel like I know even more
details, you know, like abouthim being a former Fosse youth himself,
like that should have definitely been broughtup because that like the statistics of that,
like right, yeah, and thenand then the fact that I'm thinking
like they're still legal foster parents thelast four years, they're not. They're
just fighting you with family court likethat is astonishing. Yes, it's a

(01:22:45):
start. Like this whole case hasbeen astonishing to hear it from your lived
experience, but I do want togive you a chance. Before I asked
my last question of the episode,uh, is there any place that people
can go support you for GoFundMe?Uh? Yes, media anything. Did
you want the folks to go makesure that they're getting the active updates on
this case? Yes, if yougot any support helps I'm telling you guys,

(01:23:08):
if you go on my Instagram,it's easy way to link it.
But Emily Brooks Foundation, I havelinks to my GoFundMe. There also to
my TikTok page. There's a link, but I don't know if you can
copy and paste. I'm not hitwith TikTok, y'all. I'm getting up
to speeding. I'm sorry I tried, but there is the link there also
to the GoFundMe. So even ifyou can't support, share our information,

(01:23:30):
share our story. My main thingis too like for real, we are
raising money, but too we areraising awareness. Share a story. It's
worth gossiping about It could be thehottest next news. Like if this was
on Netflix and Netflix story, everybodywill be talking about it. Share our
story because it's real, it's effective, it affects several people. So Emily
Brooks Foundation on Instagram. You canalso I think it's bringing Emily home on

(01:23:54):
GoFundMe, But if you put EmilyBrooks Foundation, it'll also come up there
on GoFundMe. So are the samething. And I do have a change
dot org petition has been there fora long time saving Emily Brooks. Saw
the same names over and over.And I will attack all of those below
in the show notes, so youguys won't have to go far. I'll
attack all of their social media,all the gofundmes, and the change dot

(01:24:15):
org petition right below while where youguys are listening. So, Shavanda,
I want to just thank you somuch for you know, being such an
inspiration as a family member, youknow, as a extended kinship care placement
or potential kinship care placement that's weneed more specifically Black families. Yeah,
fight back and help each other fightback, but then even then, like

(01:24:41):
I also want your testament to beyou lose part of yourself. You lose
part of your life, a lotof yourself if you google before we go,
because they try to try me withthis, because if you google my
name, you will see a missingperson's report of me, and it says
that I was depressed at the time. But this is after this and I
had to take a little breaky hereand go on vacation. But they try

(01:25:03):
to use that to say something waswrong with me. I want to point
out how devastating the effects and peoplereally don't realize, Like when people care,
they care of going through what Iwent through as a relative, having
them print pictures out of me andput them in court and call me all
kinds of names, try to saymy business was this and that just things

(01:25:25):
that when I'm actively advocating for somany rights, I was personally traumatized.
So just think about that. It'snot only biological parents, but like when
people are stepping up, we needto listen to relatives. We need to
listen to grandma's. I've had somany grandparents reach out to me that haven't
seen their grandchildren in fifteen years.That hurt my heart. Like I'm reading

(01:25:49):
grandparents who was like I tried tofight and I couldn't. So, Yeah,
I just wonder to bring that upbecause it really is, it really
is important, and I think thatthat's part of that, that's part of
their war on families is the mentalwar. You know, there's a their
spiritual war, their psychological war,financial war. They come into it all

(01:26:12):
sides. The last question that Iasked the guess is what's one small piece
of advice that you could give toa birth parent or a extended family member,
uh to who's going through a similarcase as y'all went through. What's
one piece of advice from from yourthree year experience? We say it read.
Let me tell you something. Peopleare like, oh, you're so

(01:26:32):
smart, you know everything, babe, let me tell you something. I
read the DSS Handbook, the EmployeeHiring Handbook. I read every statue.
When I say I was in thatcourtroom eating them up. I researched every
article on Rowanne County, Salisbury,Rowane County, detailed fact city data if
it was there and I could readit, and I can print it out

(01:26:53):
and take it to court, doit, because that's your best bet,
honestly, and so you may notbe an attorney, but if if you
have those facts and you can pointto it because they're not gonna help you
find them. They didn't help mefind the ic PC. They didn't tell
me about being a you know,flying down there to come to those to
those meetings on my own. Becauseultimately that helped. It is because I

(01:27:15):
read other people's stories. Read people'sstory, familiarize yourself on the situation that
you are in, because that isthe only way it worked. Like put
A lot of people asked, why, you know, why do all the
talk to my brother? For one, my brother don't he don't have the
patience to do what I do.Like read it. I read for years.
I was up three in the morning, like I felt like I went

(01:27:36):
to law school already. I don'tthink people realize how much I did have,
how many hours? But read,I don't care if you just taking
out your phone and you google,because that's real quick read. That's literally
the best thing I can tell you. And listen, y'all right, yeah,

(01:27:56):
because they don't care about what youhe said, she's say, but
they don't care about them facts andif fact, you read a fact and
you know how to if that factthat the law say, if you do
such and such you know that deathden. They can't make you jump through
the hoop when you know you couldwalk right over this rope right here,
because it's written out in fun lines, so read absolutely well. Thank you

(01:28:21):
again, Shavanda, and I'm justsending so much love and light to your
brother and Emily and all the otherkids, nieces and nephews. I hope
that something can be done. Idefinitely will make sure that I continue to
use my voice in my platform tosupport you guys in any way that we
can so much. And if y'allare listening, please check out all of
their social media's. If you canhelp this family financially, definitely do so.

(01:28:45):
But like she said, just shareit with this story has not ended
and to this family is safe andwe know they're not safe because we know
that these other these foster parents arestill on the on the attack, right
They're still trying to get this babyback. So share the story. And
I said, keep shining light.I say this every week the team to
shine light. Be that inspiration tosomeone you don't know. If there's another

(01:29:05):
family that's to be fighting for sixyears and like, man, we ain't
gonna get it eight years. Stopnever stop fighting, never stop shining light.
And that's why my slogan is alwaysshine your light. So I hope
the light shiner. So I hopey'all continue to shine your light. And
I will see y'all next week forthe next episode of the Mother Specials and
Parents Specials in May Always shine yourlight and I'll see you guys next time.

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