Escaping the Network: Carolyn Bradley’s Story Breaking Free from MKUltra, Ritual Abuse, and Trafficking

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Worrier of Truth. I am your host, Kelly Dylan,
and this week I'm chatting with Carolyn Bradley. She is
a survivor of unimaginable abuse. She is here to share
her incredible story of resilience and courage. Carolyn is opening
up about the chilling details of her upbringing, where she

(00:23):
was subjected to ritual abuse and trafficking orchestrated by her
own parents. She recounts the horrors inflicted on her by
her own mother and her adopted father, Pete, who was
a local police officer who used his position of power
to enable and conceal these unspeakable crimes. Carolyn's memories of

(00:47):
trauma began resurfacing when she was around fifty years old,
revealing her connection to a vast network of abusers in
her small Pacific Northwest town. She also shares the shocking
discovery of her grandfather's involvement in the infamous MK Ultra
experiments as a government affiliated doctor, and how her own

(01:10):
life became entangled in these dark and disturbing programs, from
witnessing murders covered up by her father and his network,
to her shocking ties to high ranking officials and local institutions.
Carolyn unveils a disturbing system of abuse protected by those

(01:32):
in power. She also explores the possibility that the mysterious
discoveries of detached human feet along the coast of the
sale Ish Sea since two thousand and seven might be
connected to the murders and crimes committed by her father
and his network throughout the sixties and seventies. This story

(01:54):
did make mainstream news, these allegations raise haunting question about
just how far reaching and concealed these crimes may have been.
Through it all, Carolyn reflects on the power of forgiveness,
choosing to hate the deeds rather than the people. She

(02:15):
acknowledges how her family, like many others, have been plagued
by generations of terrible abuse, and how breaking the cycle
has been a key part of her healing journey. This
episode is truly a powerful exploration of systemic failures, survivor resilience,
and the urgent need to expose hidden truths. Join me

(02:38):
as Caroline bravely shares her story, which offers hope and
inspiration to victims of abuse everywhere. Welcome Carolyne, how are
you doing today? This has been a long time in
the making having this conversation, this interview with you.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yes, yes, it has, Kelly, And I'm happy to be here,
grateful to be here with you, and I feel oh nervous,
but ready I have ready. So I know that sometimes
when I'm nervous, it's sort of a trauma response that

(03:21):
my brain just kind of goes offline and I lose
my ability to find the words that I need to say.
And so if some of that happens, just know that
that's part of it. And hopefully once I get rolling
a little bit, it'll get a little easier. So I

(03:42):
guess with that, I'll just start right in, and I
think a good starting place for me is to talk
about what it was like to wake up from robotic
mind control and to sort of try to figure out
what was happening. It was a series of events that
took place around my around the time I was turning fifty,

(04:07):
and that series of events just woke me up, and
I didn't understand what that was in the beginning. I
it was so shocking and so sort of confusing and
puzzling that I just everything I thought I knew kind

(04:28):
of didn't make it make sense. And so I'm kind
of a logical person, and so I would just say
to myself, well, you know, something is happening here that
doesn't really make sense to me. If you know, if
I'm losing my mind, well that'll be okay. You know,
I've lived, I lived this long like this. You know.

(04:50):
I didn't think that was what it was, but I
was just trying to tell myself, you know, whatever it was,
we'll deal with this, It'll be okay. And so the
first thing that kind of happened was I was, you know,
I was always a hard worker. Work made sense to me.
My personal life much more challenging, but work I could
go and I could feel a sense of worth and purpose.
And so I worked a lot, and I was on

(05:13):
my way to work when Morny had that hour commute,
and all of a sudden, kind of for the first time,
it just entered into my mind that I had no
idea what I had done the night before or the
day before. I couldn't think of what I ate for dinner.
I couldn't I didn't know what I couldn't figure out
what time I had gone to bed. And as I

(05:35):
had that realization for the first time, along with it
came just kind of a sick, panicky feeling and just
this huge shame and the feeling that I should not
look at that, that I just should not look at that.
But at the same time, I couldn't let it go,

(05:56):
and so I just started to kind of pull that
back out every now and then and try to figure out,
what is that, What was that? Why can't I remember?
And it felt like it was kind of a guarded
secret that I couldn't let anybody know. And a couple
other things happened right about that same time. It was like,

(06:19):
I love how the universe just kind of knows when
it's time, and kind of just felt like this series
of events that were just meant to happen. And one
of the things that happened was someone that I was
very close to, probably my closest human relationship, and that
was my aunt passed away. And at the same time,

(06:43):
a very prominent political person passed away. And I saw
that on TV, and within like just maybe like twenty
four hours, I just had this panic attack and I
didn't even know what it was. In the moment, I
thought I thought I was dying. I mean, it was
just like I could hear the blood rushing in my ears,
and it was just it was so extreme, and I thought, well,

(07:07):
this must be what it's like to die. And then
you know, I got myself calmed down and I realized
that no, that was some kind of a panic response,
and you know, I kept trying to do things to
just ground myself. I knew that I needed to stay
grounded and stay calm and to just allow what was

(07:28):
going on to go on. And so, I mean, I
wasn't super successful at that, but I also knew that
I was not going to the hospital because that just
was not an option for me. I grew up with
a lot of you know, abuse in the medical field,
and my grandfather was a doctor for the government involved

(07:49):
in mk ultrend. So you know, it just was not
going to do that. And so I knew I had to,
you know, rely on and kind of spiritual matters and
staying calm and grounded to get through it. And so

(08:09):
I just started praying. And it was like, as I
was beginning to connect spiritually, these I just began to
have these memories and they were really hazy at first,
and I was like, are these memories? What is this?
But I would kind of see myself They were literally
kind of visual, hazy images of myself in these positions

(08:33):
that I would have never It was shocking and I
just would have never in my right mind done those things.
You know, there were a lot of them were sec
The first things that came were sexual in nature, and
so I was just didn't know what to make of
that or how to process that. But they kept coming
and I just kept, you know, dealing with it, and

(08:58):
at one point I was praying. You know, it was
like I just didn't know if I knew anything anymore,
and so I was trying to figure out what I
did know for sure and go all the way clear
to basics because I couldn't necessarily trust what I was seeing,
and so I just said, God, if there's God, show yourself.

(09:21):
I need some help here. And then it kind of
went straight too, is there Jesus? Well, obviously there's probably
a Jesus is here for me? I mean, am I
you know, And within just a very short time, I

(09:41):
could see Jesus kind of pop up in my mind's
eye and just sort of stay there as like this
comforting sort of presence and just was there for like
three days. Every time I would kind of check in
I could just see, you know, still there. And so
I was like, okay, well we'll take that as a
sign yep, whatever that means for me and I can

(10:06):
I can gain courage in that.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
These memories were they coming back to you will say claravoyantly.
Were they like movies or images playing inside your minds I?
Or were is it more was it more feeling for
you or sort of a direct cognition and inner knowing?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
All of the above got to really every bit of that,
and so it was really intense. And so I would
say to myself, well, you know, the imagery part that
could be something, I'm not sure what. But the part
that really struck me was that I was feeling this

(10:46):
in my body so much, and some of the images
would be accompanied with just full on body memories. Yeah,
And so that helped me to realize that now this
was something you know, that had probably happened to me,
and that I was re experiencing it in some way.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
The body holds on to trauma always.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah. Man, oh, I just really went deep into it then,
and I kind of as this was happening, Oh well,
I'm not sure where to go next. So I was
in a marriage that I thought was a marriage with
a man that I thought I loved and that I

(11:31):
thought loved me. But as I begin to wake up,
I began to share with him some of these memories
and what was going on, and his responses were just
odd and they were puzzling to me. And then things
started to happen that didn't fit with who I thought
he was and what I thought our marriage was about,
and so that was kind of confusing too. And about

(11:55):
that time, I was having a lot of memories of murders,
and that really murders that were committed by my parents specifically,
and again hard to know what to call my parents
because they didn't they don't feel much like parents, and
they weren't. They weren't looking out for me, that's for sure,

(12:16):
and so it's a little hard to talk about. But anyway,
you're doing great.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
You're doing great, Carolyn, you really are. And I know
these are not easy things to discuss, but you're doing
on the parents part.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I'm not sure why that feels, and maybe it's just
not quite timeable because of the murders, that's right. So
that's where the memories then went to, and so I
was like, oh, my gosh, that was just so shocking.
But then I would think back on my childhood. Was
it really you knew crazy happened in your childhood? Why

(12:53):
is this so shocking?

Speaker 1 (12:54):
And so I have a question for you now, when
you were awakening and unlocking the these these dormant memories,
did you have any any memories of we'll say, terrible
things being done during your childhood prior to this or
was this absolutely okay? So already you already knew there

(13:15):
was we'll say some some things that something childhood that
weren't weren't good.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, oh, you could see there was no way I
could create a scenario that could cover for all that,
and so and sort of my way of coping was,
you know, as a little girl, I would tell myself, Okay,
all you have to do is find a way to
stay alive until you get to be an adult, and
then you can create your own life and you can
get yourself out of this mess and this nightmare and
these people that you don't belong with or fit with,

(13:40):
and you can move forward. And so that was kind
of my strategy. Well then when I became of age,
I thought I did get away from them, and my
way of dealing with it was to say, well, we're
going to put a lid on that, and we're never
going to look at that. It was it was just
something that we're going to go back to your just

(14:01):
your life begins here, and you don't revisit that. It
was the only thing I knew to do, and so
you know, I did that, and let's go back to
the murders. So sure I was, you know, as the
memories were opening up. It was so interesting the way

(14:23):
it would happen. The way I would know it was
real is because it would connect with a memory that
I had always had. But the memory I'd always had
was sort of benign, But all of a sudden I
would think, why would I have been in that place?
What was happening? And then oh my gosh, that memory
that I had always had would just sort of open up.
And some of the times there had even been a
memory that was had always been there, but it wasn't

(14:47):
so for me. That's what mind control was like. You
couldn't connect the dots at all. You might have a memory,
but you couldn't pull it out and look at it
and analyze it in any way. So even if you
had it it was just sort of back there somewhere.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
So it was like all these memories were kind of
jumbled together in an incoherent fashion, we can say, within
the mind, kind of kind of like alphabet soup, kind
of scattered all over the place.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
You could say that, But that sounds like a lot
more than there were. So it was like they would
kind of all of a sudden, I'd become aware of one,
and I'd think, well, I always kind of knew that,
what did that even mean? So it was sort of
like that. It didn't call like there were a kind
of them back there. It was just like, all of
a sudden, I would go, yeah, I kind of always
knew that, what did that mean? And then as it

(15:37):
would come forward, then it would just sort of open
up and I would see more about that scenario that
I had remembered, such as, you know, why would I
have been I had this memory of being out in
a boat fishing with these police officers, and I'm like,
that doesn't that doesn't make any sense when I had
that memory, why would I have been doing that? No,

(15:58):
something is not right about that. Well, then the memory
opened up and I could see that there was a
body in the boat, and then I could see what
they were doing with the body, and it just I
just had I knew then the whole memory. And so
it was sort of like that with some of them.
I mean, they came in different ways, but those, some
of those, those were the ones that really were validating

(16:19):
for me, the ones where I had had a memory,
but then once I could really pull it out and
look at it, Yeah, it just they would open up
and become something very different.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
And this happened when you were around How old were
you when these memories started surfacing?

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Just about fifty okay?

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Wow? Wow? And how long did it take for you
to sort of extract these memories? Did it take a
few years for things?

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Ever? I would say two really intense years. Okay, two
really intense years that I didn't understand everything about. But
it was really looking back on it, it was such
a spiritual experience, so much help and guidance, and I
was just kind of in an altered state of trying

(17:07):
to be an acceptance of what was happening that I
didn't fully understand yet and trying to make that okay
and to just know that there's a bigger picture here.
And I was getting towards it.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
And you were doing this all on your own at
the Tall Life.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, pretty much all on my own because what I
go this is funny too. I kept desperately wanting to
like somebody to fix me, right, and I knew that.
I just knew that if I found somebody, I was
going to attach to them like too much, and then

(17:42):
I wouldn't it would interfere with my own process. And
I kept I had this little voice that would tell me,
you have everything you need inside of you to heal yourself.
You can do this. And I didn't feel I could,
but I was like, oh, okay, and you did. And well,
I mean I did start this quest of energy healing stuff.

(18:08):
I just started looking into all things. You know. It
was really clear to me that western medicine was not
going to have the answers for me, the ones that
I was seeking and that I needed, oh clearly, And
so I just started looking at everything alternative and I
went in some odd directions and some good directions, and

(18:29):
I just tried stuff and some of it was super helpful.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
And prior to this, we'll call it, did you do
you feel your spiritual awakening journey kind of coincided with
these memories coming to the surface.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
One percent, like one hundred percent. And I had kind
of started a spiritual journey before that. I but you know,
I was so just kind of robotic, and the way
I lived my life was just very very small and
quiet and secluded and I just worked and then you know,

(19:05):
went home. And then later I was shown that I
had lived this double life at night that I was
completely unaware of, and so you know, that's another piece
of it. But first, before I understood that it was
more about because yeah, I was still with this husband
slash handler, and so I had to figure that out. Like,
it's just amazing the way things unfolded for me. I

(19:27):
really can just see this god universal flow just yeah,
so much help and assistance.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
And we were divinely led guide it and protected.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
It feels like I know that. Yeah. And then at
one point, like at first I was with my husband
and I was telling him what was going on, and
he was, you know, pretending a lot of support, but
it didn't feel like the right kind of support. Something
to seem right. But of course I couldn't bring myself

(20:04):
to question that really, But then some things happened that
just kind of woke me up to something that's definitely
not right here. And one of those things was I
told him about the murders and he, you know, his
first response I thought was so weird. He said, well,

(20:25):
they couldn't get away with that today, and just I
thought that was that, you know, like, really, that's where
we're going to go with this.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
If someone came to me and said I think so
and so may have murdered someone, I'd be like, what,
oh my god, we need to like go to the police,
we need help. There was never any of that, and
so that's very telling.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Ye I was trying to get there too, you know,
like I was like, the first thing you do when
you know about a murder is you report it, right,
and none of that. He was just like, well they could.
He just kept minimizing it, and I was like, well,
that's just really weird. The next thing that happened was
so I'm not sure you know the easiest way to

(21:11):
explain this is that I my my father was a
police officer, and he was part of a really corrupt
police force in a really corrupt town. And so it
was this whole network and my husband was part of that,
and he was a handler, and I was, I'm sure

(21:33):
gifted to him. Little did I know, you know, until
much later. So anyway, you know, he would sort of
act as a loving husband, although you know, not much,
but enough that I you know. So anyway, the next
thing that happens is he comes home from work one day. Okay, Meanwhile,

(21:56):
I had sold my business and decided that whatever this was,
I couldn't work through it. I needed to just go
within and figure out, you know, like I needed time
to heal. And so I was sold my business and
he was like, you just stay home, you just take
care of yourself. You know, we'll get through this. And
it's like yeah. And then the next thing I know,

(22:17):
he comes home from work one day and he says, well,
I talk to your mom today. And I'm thinking to myself,
that's no. He and my mom didn't like each other,
never spoke. Why would he call my mother and so then?
And why at his work? Like that didn't make any
sense to me. And so it went from that to

(22:37):
I called the sheriff's department in that town where these
murders happened, and they're going to have somebody call you
so that you can report them and I was like,
that just didn't feel right, even kind of but I'm like, okay, okay,
I can do that. But I was pretty scared, and

(23:01):
I just I just you know how you just know,
but you don't know, and you can't let yourself know.
It was just all of that. So I get this
call from this man staying he's a police detective in
the town this hat took place in, but that he
is a retired New York detective who just moved to

(23:23):
this town, and he is he was on the streets
of New York, so you know, he has all this
experience and he's just transferred to this town and he's retired,
but he wants to make the world a better place,
and so he's uh volunteering his services. And so he

(23:46):
tells me his name, and he starts asking me questions
and I'm answering them as best I can. And I'm thinking,
this is just like talking to everybody else. This is
the this is so weird, he said. At one point,
I'm telling him about pornography and about murders and about

(24:08):
a snuff a movie that was filmed and you would
refer to I referred to it as a snuff film.
And he said he had that indignation in his voice
where I could hear he was, you know, like dismissive.
And he said, well, why would they do that? And

(24:29):
that was I just thought, who am I talking to?
Is this how a policeman talks to a victim? It
was just so strange, and so I still just kept
trying to talk to him and tell him things, but
it wasn't I could tell it wasn't going anywhere, and
it didn't feel right. And then he says, what did

(24:49):
the policeman? I'll never forget this one, and I did
forget it for a long time. It was later that
I remembered this. What did the policeman in the town
that you lived in? Do for recreation? And I'm thinking
that is the weirdest question. But I'm like, I just
don't know. I have no idea, And he said and
then he asked me a couple He threw out a

(25:12):
couple of names, and he asked me if I remembered
those people didn't recognize either name, and then he said,
did any of the policemen own boats that you're aware of?
And I'm thinking, what is this? What is this? And
I said, well, I'm not that I'm aware. I'm just
like so puzzled by it. And I didn't have those

(25:33):
memories yet, but later, yes, they sure did, and they
were using those boats to dispose of bodies out into
the Puget Sound. So gee, funny that he would ask me, like,
that's what they do all the time, is they're testing
you to see what you remember, to see if you're
really a threat. Wow. Always my mom, did it? Pete

(25:56):
did it? I mean all the people involved that you know.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
And I want to add in We'll get to it
obviously in the timeline that we do. But recently you
had shared with me news articles in the past few
years how body parts have washed up ashore. So the
story comes from, and.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
That was reported on mainstream media, Rachel Maddow with a
laundry basket full of shoes, pulling each one out to
symbolize a dis embodied foot in a shoe found that
washed up on the shore right around the area where
you know I grew up. And yep. And so as
I'm watching that on the news, I feel like I'm

(26:38):
in the twilight zone. I'm thinking to myself, well, gee,
I have a pretty good guess as to where some
of those feet might have come from. But you know,
what do you do? So fast forward? I did go
to the well that's a little a little quite a
little ways farther, but I did end up going to
the FBI and reporting that at some point, and didn't

(27:00):
even take out a pen or take any notes. It
was just like, you.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Know, I want to add in so many people when
I interview survivors, they always comment, where's the police? Why
aren't you going to the police. Why aren't the police
doing anything? Your story right here is proving why they at.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
One hundred Oh my gosh, right, and I'm covered up.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
It's totally covered up.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
It's totally and it's so like if anybody knew that
it was me from my childhood, like everything I grew
up with was just watching this corruption and how complete
it was, and it was this town. I mean, I
didn't know any thing about the mafia, but I did

(27:47):
read The Godfather, and so as I got older, I
kept thinking, well, boy, that just sounds an awful lot
like what you know I was experiencing as a child.
In some ways, you know this the level of just
cover up was unbelievable, and the level of corruption, the
level I mean, I could talk about the things that

(28:08):
went on in my home that were just almost just unbelievable,
but it happened. And like even the stories in my
home that were talked about by the light of day
were so incredibly abnormal, but they were so normalized in
my house that even the little children would know some
of these stories, you know, And I mean, I can

(28:32):
talk about them. It's just there's so much that I
feel like I'll kind of go all over the place
if I start to. You know, the police stuff is huge,
and there's so much of it, and it's so extreme.
I've always had this memory, this memory I never forgot.
So when I was about six years old, father figure

(28:56):
while he had adopted me. He married my mother when
I was three, and she gifted me to him as
a you know, by then, my sexual abuse was just
had been so extreme, it started so early, and so
she kind of would use that to entice men, and

(29:17):
it didn't exactly entice a great caliber of men, let
me tell you. And so he adopted me, and they
didn't tell me that as I was growing up. So
you know, here I'm thinking that this is my dad,
and he was just a complete sadist when he joined

(29:39):
he'd been in the Coastguard when my mother married him. Well,
shortly thereafter we moved to this town and he joined
this police department on this really corrupt force. But one
of the things he used to talk to me about
a lot as a tiny little girl, it was like
he had this fascination with me. Well, I think it
was because he knew about the program, he knew about
m K. Eldra, and he knew that I had the programming.

(30:00):
I mean like this was a fascination to him, and
so I was like his little confidant, his little partner
in crime. And so he would tell me about he
had this fascination with killing people and with being powerful,
and so he would talk a lot about he would
brag about how he was just able to, you know,
kill people with one hand within thirty seconds. He could

(30:24):
just incapacitate them and just brag, breg brag. Well, then
another thing I remember him telling me so clearly was
that suiciding people was just one of the easiest things
to do. And he told me exactly, play by play,
exactly how you do it, and you could just see

(30:47):
the pride in himself, and he said It's just the
easiest thing, he said. You can. You can make a
person write any kind of note, write any You just
hold a gun to their head and you make them
get up on something and you put a noose around
their neck with a gun to their head, and then
you make them write a note. They'll write anything, he said.
And then uh, you just kick the chair out for

(31:08):
mentor and uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
And he was telling me all this as a child.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Maybe by then seven, I don't know, very very young
was when he first this was all He was so
fascinated with the power that went to his head of
becoming a policeman, see, and so he just yeah, he
just kept telling me all these stories over and over.
And I'm sitting there thinking, oh my god, what does
this mean for me? You know, I mean, and I

(31:35):
knew he didn't like me too much, so it was like,
this is just this is kind of all bad. And
you know, I I just had to hold those those secrets.
And uh. He would tell me that, you know, he
could keep anything out of the newspaper because he had
friends at the paper and all he had to do
was tell him that, you know, if you if you

(31:58):
put this and we can't put this in paper because
it'll tip off the bad guys and this is that
we're trying to investigate, and so we can't let them know,
and so we have to keep this out of the paper.
And yeah, so that was another thing that he used
to talk about a lot when I was during his
bragging about you know, how powerful he was and you

(32:20):
know that ego he just yeah, it's just.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
And also it kind of easy it is for we'll
call them the network for lack of a better word,
for the net to really come up and control things
when you have members in high positions of power, like
on the police force, in the newspaper, in the government structure.
It's so easy people you know, bribe, blackmail, pay people off.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
That was going on. Yes, I was trafficked by the
police department. In the police department. One of the things
that was so difficult and challenging for me. You know,
I was just a tiny little girl and I didn't
really understand their interest in me, and there definitely was
one and they were all passing me around and molesting

(33:09):
me and forcing me to do things to them, and
they would refer to me as their mascot and they
would call me little This is so hard to say,
it's so disturbing, but I'm gonna say it. They would
call me little pussy, and they and I didn't know why,
Like that was so puzzling, and so I remember going
home and saying to my mom, Mom, what's a pussy?

(33:30):
I didn't even know what it was. It was just
a tiny little girl. And she was like, where did
you hear that? You know, blah blah blah. So, you know, shame,
I shut right up about that. But and she was
not like she was any kind of help or anything.
I just was so confused and looking for somewhere to
turn to.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Your mother, of course, who else. She was a young kid,
even though I know your mom was also abusive towards you.
But that so what child tends to go to is
the adult.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Kept trying for help. Yeah, I kept trying to ask
her questions and you know, to just figure things out
and to kind of you know, some of the words
they were using and the things. I just didn't really
understand all of it. But you know, as I just
kept quiet, I got quite an education because that was
part of my strategy, was just to keep quiet. And

(34:21):
you know, I was really dissociated as a child, extremely
dissociated and they could all see that, and so I
think that kind of embolded them, emboldened them that I
was safe to talk in front of and that. And
then you know, they would use little tests to see
what I remembered, and you know, I would always make
sure I passed those tests by remembering nothing. You know.

(34:41):
I can remember thinking to myself, see no evil here,
no evil speak, no evil. I mean, I was just like,
and that's just you know, just go along, to get
along and stay alive. It was kind of my motto.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
And yeah, and this happened throughout your whole childhood.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Oh whole childhood. It was. It was just it was
so challenging, Like I can remember, just like you know,
trying to find ways to get through it that would
be helpful and kind of strategies and one of the

(35:27):
things that I would do, you know, I you know,
you hear about playing dead, and I would. I would
try playing dead sometimes just yeah, they were just you know,
and then I remember thinking, well, if you can't beat them,
join them, you know, I mean, they were just like
all these different strategies I would kind of try, but
nothing was terribly helpful, and it was just pretty much

(35:49):
torturous the whole time. You know. It wasn't like the
stuff happened once a week or it just happened all
the time. It was just like free for all. And
I would be passed around because these policemen all had
ownership of me on this police force. I would be
passed around and some that would be sent to their
different houses. Like they could literally drive a police car

(36:11):
into our driveway, check me out like I was a
library book. Just take me from my parents, drive off,
you know, like at dinner time or in the evening,
and then bring me back a few hours later. And uh,
I mean that's just that's just one thing. But you know,

(36:31):
sometimes I would be they would keep me for a
couple of days at a time, and I would be
some they some of them lived on these big sort
of secluded places where they could really get away with things. Yeah,
they purposely lived off the rated too. You know. That's

(36:52):
one of the first things Pete did when he joined
the police department was to move us out to the country,
away from oh wows to see and then and you know,
we were very isolated out there. It was about nine
miles out of town and there's just a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Was this a small town or was this like an
average size town? Would you say?

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Or is it I want to say, I want to say,
back then, I can remember it. The there was this
I think about fourteen thousand. Now it's probably like maybe
twenty five thousand.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
But yeah, okay, a smaller town.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, sort of prominent in where it is in the
local Okay, beautiful, just a beautiful, picturesque place, you know,
right on the water.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
And yeah, kind of the irony, the dichotomy there. It's
this beautiful place, but more evil was lurking all over.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
So much and like the this is interesting too. So
the secluded area that we moved to was a little
bit of a hub for those activities. And it was
the area was called Eden Valley.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
You can't make that up.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
The irony, Oh, but so much of it was in
so much of it was inverted in inversions, like they.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Love to do that.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, so much and uh yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
And would you say, I'm going to assume the answer
is yes, but I want to hear your perspective. Were
there some good people, say on that police force? Were
there some people as okay, you.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Know, it's the strangest thing, because you'd think I would
just have this adversion to policemen, but I don't. Really,
it's really many good ones. I do doctors, but not policemen.
I think I knew that somehow. I just knew that.
And I also knew because I was around so many
of them so much. What I knew was the ones
that did not participate, there was nothing they could do.

(38:53):
They had to turn their heads, and some of them
did it with disgust. Yeah. Yeah, And I knew that.
I knew that there was no help for me. This went,
this went way too high up. And yeah, you just
I just I just knew that. And like a couple
of times throughout the years, a couple of men like

(39:16):
I also know that people are not all one thing
or another, and inside of the worst of people is
some good, and inside of the best of some people,
the best of people can be some darkness. And so
a couple of these men who had participated to some
degree even in abusing me, had a limit, and Pete

(39:42):
was so outrageous that even they had a point where
they kind of tried to stand up against him, and
both of them were just taken out.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
He killed them. Wow, because they stood up, tried to
try to know I know, very far at all.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
I mean didn't even I don't even think they did much,
you know, but he knew.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
He said it was a threat because they started, you know,
feeling because.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
They didn't they weren't empathy, and they were grossed out
by it, and they were just like this is just yeah.
At some point they just yeah, because they had been
really compromised and involved, and then they tried to pull
away and just you know, say no too much, and
it just didn't work.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Can you talk a bit more about these murders that
happened in this town? And obviously you're you're I don't
know if you want me to call him your father
or I guess what we'll call him?

Speaker 2 (40:48):
I mean, yeah, what's a good was? I do call
him Pete sometimes I say my father. It's hard to
say that because but yet it's sort of what he
what he was and this sense.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
And so I mean legally, but was he truly a father?

Speaker 2 (41:03):
No?

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Absolutely not too Yeah, it's it's tricky. Yeah, I'll call
him Pete. So Pete was behind a lot of murders
and he could get away with it because he was
in a high ranking position on the police department.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
And I don't think and some of the others are
totally involved in murders too, but not to the degree
he was, like, he just there was a certain yeah,
he just took everything to a level. He just there's
there's this story of well, there are a lot of
stories around this. But so my mother's girlfriend they were

(41:45):
involved in. Like one of the things that these police
officers did was they with their wives swapped partners, and
so that was kind of like they called themselves swingers,
I guess. Or they would party, go okay, whatever, and
I would be pulled into those sometimes tis too horrid, God,
just horrid. Well, my mother really loved that, Like, bless

(42:09):
her heart. She was so damaged and so not well,
and she was kind of childish in her way, and
she was kind of like a high school mean girl.
That was her mentality. And she really didn't like me.
She was Somebody told me later, your mother is jealous
of you, Carrie, mother's jealous of you. And that was

(42:34):
so shocking to hear because I couldn't compete that, like,
how can a mother be? That didn't make sense to me,
But looking back, of course, that's what it was because
she wanted to be passed around, you know, like, yeah, she.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Wanted the attention, and she wanted attention that people should want.
But she's you know, obviously almost attention.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
But that's what. Yeah. An example is, I can't remember
when I was my mom did not feel shame or
guilt in anyway. And I could see that from the
time I was a very young girl, and I had
such a hard time with that. It was so puzzling
and I couldn't figure out how that could be because
I felt all her shame and all her guilt. But

(43:15):
she used to she would say she was a nympho maniac.
Well I didn't even know what that word was when
she was saying when I first heard her saying it.
But she and her girlfriend were like high school girls,
and so they would brag about sex and brag about.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
And this would be in front of you as a child,
they would.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Talk about these things. Oh wow, absolutely yeah. And other
children that she was having during that time too. I mean,
you know, she ended up with four children. I was
first born, and I was four when she had her
second child. So that's a lot of stories around that too.
But this best girlfriend of hers and her husband. He

(43:57):
was a business owner in the town, and something happened
within that swapping and Pete took a dislike to her husband.
And one of the stories that was told just by
the light of day, and our family was never hidden
or not talked about, was that the reason that family

(44:24):
left town. They were a Catholic family and they had
five or six children, and was because Pete and his
sergeant on the police department were in a squad car
one night and they found that man out alone on
a road or pulled him over in the squad car,

(44:46):
forced him at gunpoint. The man out of the car,
held a gun to his head and made him do
oral sex on Pete. Wow, the gun to his head,
and that man knew that he was lucky to get

(45:08):
out of that alive, he knew, and he just went home,
packed up his family, left his business, and fled in
the night with his family, never to return to that town. Wow. Now,
my mother and that woman remained friends, probably still to
this day. Oh wow, they're both you know, they're both
still alive. So yeah, And like even the little children

(45:31):
talked about that and knew about it, and my family,
my grandparents, i mean, everybody knew.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
This was an open story that you share, a family lore,
we can call it that. People just absolutely and really there.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Was a ton like that, really, but that one just
is a level I think.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, in a way normalizing this behavior because it was
very normal for your family.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
All normalized, so normalized. I mean, the way we lived
was so abnormal. But yet it just went on for
so many years and there was never any break or
any sign that anything would ever be done that you
just it's what you lived with and so.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
And how how did outsiders sort of see you and
your family?

Speaker 2 (46:14):
I mean that is a great question. It's hard for
me to know because I was a little girl, you know.
I think you know, Pete had a certain charisma about him,
and he wasn't totally unlikable. If you would have been he,

(46:37):
he wouldn't have been as successful at what he did.
Like he could really draw people in and he could
really offer you you know, I mean, he had a
lot of power and he you know, he loved to
do things like pull people over, you know, kids over
and dump out their beer and you know, send them
on their way. And like he was always you know,

(46:57):
doing he was always the cool cop, you know, and
It's hard for me to know. I think I think
in certain circles, you know, I just don't know what
people thought of my family. I think it would be
it would be dependent on who you asked. I think
from my perspective, you know, they were connected, they had

(47:19):
their friends, and they were not unpopular.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
And yeah, I'm guessing they probably stayed in a small
circle within the network with the people that they got
close to and brought into their inner circle.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yes, very much outside the network was big enough that
it provided everything they needed. Let's say that, Okay, what
did outsiders think of them? I just wouldn't have any idea.
I think it was sort of a closed you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, And this is also a time period. This was
probably right in the sixties and seventies, maybe going into
the eighties. A lot of this was happening, and it
was so much easier back then to get away things
like murder because there was no cameras, no cell.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Phone, no computers. Yeah, where would you report somebody missing?
While you'd call a police department?

Speaker 1 (48:10):
I mean yeah, and it's all you know, that's all
taken over, so that will easily be covered up.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
So yeah, and it happened a lot so.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Easy to get away with things back then, get away
with things back then, and they were very proud of that.
And I know present day, you know, the network Obdusily
is still still thriving. We know that they still get
away with things. But I'm going to just safely assume
it's probably a bit more difficult to get away with
with certain things nowadays, with technology as opposed to how
it was when you were growing up.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
I think so it seems like it would have to be.
But what I will say is, you know, part of
my reason, my motivation for speaking out is because it
became really clear to me recently that it is alive
and well and still going on, not only within my family,
but the network is still covering it up, and it

(49:02):
needs to be It needs to be revealed in a
way that can't be overlooked and can't be swept under
the rug. And like, by not talking about it, it's
like you're you're just allowing it to continue without even
trying to make a change, and that just as long

(49:23):
as children are still being treated in this way and
used in this way.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yeah, how long did you live in that town for
until you moved away? Did you live there for a
long time.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, until I was forty. I mean I left for
short times. A couple of times I got away, but
you know I was brought back. I ran away a
couple of times when I was a kid, and that's
just another big, long story. And you know it was
people all within the network and you know that would
fight each other. And what happened was everybody kind of

(49:56):
fought over rights to me because in that circle, it's
sort of I don't want to use the word. I
don't know what the word is that you would use,
maybe like, well, it's not a bad thing to have
a child that you can offer up, you know, that's
sort of there's a certain privilege that comes with that,

(50:17):
and you get certain kudos and you get things because
of it, and trades, and you know, the.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Higher you sacrifice something, the more you get is kind
of the.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Sense I get.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
So obviously sacrificing your child is yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
A big and that is well rewarded, and so every
you know, like so my grandfather who was a doctor
for the government and involved CIA and uh.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
And whose side of the family is he with your mother's.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
My mother's father, and I was born when my mother
was only eighteen, and so then we went and lived
with them until she married Pete and moved to that
other town. So, you know, first three years of my
life was with my grandparents, Okay and my mother, and uh,

(51:10):
I mean that's just yeah. So my grandfather probably had
most rights to me because I was in that program
and so I was taken frequently for programming to different sites,
and you know, I was kept with my mother in
that home, but then shipped out in between times. And
you know, then after I started school, it would be

(51:31):
on vacations and summer break that I would continue with
that programming. But so the point I was trying to
make was that my grandfather had probably most rights. And
then and then Pete and Judy fought over and so
sometimes he would make a deal that she wouldn't like,

(51:54):
or vice versa, and then and then they would get
into this big clash of uh, you know. And then
because I was pulled into all that, all their crimes
and the policeman's crimes, that made Judy envious. She wanted
to be a part of all of that. She wasn't
very good at keeping a secret, and I just think

(52:15):
she didn't I don't know, I just think she.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Was she being abused by Pete as well.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Very much. Yeah, oh yeah. Terrorized. We were all just
terrorized by him. He was six foot three and about
two hundred and I don't know, maybe forty pounds, and
extremely like ye had the physique of I was used
to say, mister Clean. He looked like mister Clean, only
the nightmare version, the vision on crack. Big. Yes, a

(52:45):
big guy, yeah, huge, and I mean just larger than life.
And he had this just explosive temper that was just
utterly terrifying and you did not want to be in
his wake when he was, you know, raging and exploding.
One of the things that went on throughout my childhood
was that he would get off his shift at the
police department and then he would go out drinking at

(53:07):
this place where all the policemen drank, and then he
would come home and he would just fly into a rage,
and so we kids would be trying to sleep, but
the house would be demolished. You could hear just horrible noise,
and so then we would wake up in the morning
and there would be broken windows, doors would be torn off,

(53:27):
the hinges. One morning we woke up and there were
holes punched in the ceiling where he had just jumped
up and punched his fists through this. I mean he
just was Oh my god, yeah, and he was so powerful.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Did he abuse your siblings as well to your knowledge or?

Speaker 2 (53:47):
I mean it was different than me. And see that's
what tells me too, that now that program was what
enabled them to feel so emboldened and entitled to do
these things to me, you know, the other kids, it
was different. It was definitely different. There was a tremendous

(54:08):
amount of neglect and terrorizing and some physical abuse, but
you know, it just was different. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
And also technically, I guess you were adopted by him,
so you weren't, yes, you know, yes.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Yeah, that's true. And I ostracized, so I didn't know
I was adopted until my younger brother told me, uh
oh wow, pissed at me about something one day and
was saying, well, you were adopted anyway, You're not even
part of this family. And I thought, well, that's weird.
I mean, it kind of made sense, you know. I
was very ostracized within the family. And so I went

(54:44):
to my mother and I said, uh, I said, mom,
so and so my brother says I'm adopted. Mom, tell
me that's not true. And she wouldn't say anything, like
she just no response. Just wow, she did that a lot,
if she you know, yeah, shut down. Yeah. And so

(55:07):
then within a few days they woke me up in
the middle of the night and told me that yes,
it was true.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
But what a way to do. We just wake you
up in the middle of the night.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Hey. Yeah, they woke me up in the middle of
the night a lot. Well for things too, but that
was just it was just so strange and so creepy
and so uncomfortable. And then they were trying to do
it in this way like you're the chosen one, and
I was just like, oh my god, spare me. This
is horrid.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Did you did you ever find out who your birth
father was?

Speaker 2 (55:36):
I did, Yes, I did. And you know, I always
kind of knew i'd never meet him. I knew a
lot of things as a kid, and that was one
of the things I knew that it wasn't mine to
know him. But I felt like like I favored his
side of the family a lot in my looks and
just in I don't know, I just.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yeah, yeah, but you never got you didn't you never
met him, No I found I found No, I did
not he By the time I had hired someone to
find him, he'd passed away three months before. Oh and
what do you know? Is he part of the network?
You are birth father?

Speaker 2 (56:17):
I don't know for sure. I know there are problems,
but I don't know what they all were. And I
don't know. I mean, all I have is my mother's
and she's not a reliable source. So I just really
don't know. She said a lot of things she would say,
you know her, she contradicted herself a lot, and so
I just can't rely on the things she said, of course.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
And Pete and your mother? Was that an arranged marriage?
I know in the network there's a lot of contractual
arranged marriages.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
That one. I don't know. I just don't know. I mean,
how do these people find each other? And that was
the thing I kept as a kid, even thinking, how
are all these people like everybody's not like this, but
how come all these people there around her life like this?
That wash? You know? That was how Yeah, And that
was definitely you know, I don't know how they found

(57:11):
each other? Yeah, maybe right, Yeah, I definitely think that
my grandparents were an arranged marriage. I came to figure
that out later, and to you know, like this, it
was very multi generational. And you know, I can remember
as a small child when I went to school hearing
that secrets were a bad thing, and that was so
shocking and puzzling to me because in my home everything

(57:35):
was a secret. And these were people who I thought
were perfect, my grandparents. I mean, I thought they were
absolutely perfect. They were educated, they were successful, they they
had the right look, the right friends, everything, and of
course I just felt like I could never measure up,
you know, and to any you know, like I felt

(57:59):
like I had to earn the right to breathe. I mean,
I just felt felt so you know, small around them all,
and you know, I'm sure some of that was by design,
but you know, then then there was the other part
where they would say, you know, they would they were
always building me up and telling me that I was

(58:19):
their favorite, number one granddaughter, but of course don't tell
the others, you know, and that was just icky too.
There was just it was all just so. But you know,
back then, and really until I was long after my
grandparents were dead, I really did believe they were perfect
and that I loved them so much and that.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Yeah, and they were high up in the network, correct.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
You very yes, very highly connected.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
They had connections in government and military.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Yes, and you know in the m k Elter program
and yeah, so that was that was the connection. And
you know, as I was waking up and I was
remembering and putting these together, I would the one thing
I had that I could kind of fact check with
was my mother and her denials, because she would always
tell on herself like she just would sort of like

(59:13):
my husband when I was first waking up, like they
would just say the most like the the denials didn't
even fit what I was saying. It would be like, really,
that's what you know. And so I would I would
call my mom and I would say, Mom, I need
you to know I'm no longer under mind control and
I remember everything that happened to me, and I remember

(59:33):
what you did to me, and you know, she she
would just YEA, my cool, calm, collected mother who always
had an answer for everything, would you know, just kind
of lose it and just say off the wall responses.
And I was kind of guided to keep doing that.
And so it was so scary though, because I kept

(59:54):
thinking mind control the word mind control say that to
my mother, like she's going to tell me I'm crazy,
And I thought, well, letter see if she does. Yeah,
Well she didn't. She didn't. She would act like I
didn't say that, and that was so weird in itself.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
So she wouldn't. She wouldn't deny it. She never denied it.
That's very telling.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
No, And a lot of the things, this was one
of her favorites. She would say, the things you're talking about,
I really have no memory of. And she'd say it
in that sort of just haughty, irritated boy, the things
you're talking about, I really have no memory of. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
So you were guided to continue saying these things to
her to kind of oh, I was get that validation
that you needed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Yes. And that went on for quite a while too. Wow.
And the last time I was guided to do it,
I called her up. And you know, I was never
rude to her. I never you know, really called her out.
I just told her what I was remembering, and I
asked her. You know, I would sometimes ask her a

(01:00:58):
question or two, but it just I would be so afraid.
It was so scary to do that because her answers
were just terrifying because they were so validating and the
last thing I was guided to do, and it took
me a while to get off the courage to do it,
but I called her up and I had a patent

(01:01:19):
paper right next to me, and I wrote down the
date and I said, Mom, do you have a minute
And she said yes. And I said, Mom, I need
you to know that if you're planning for something bad
to happen to me, for me to have an accident
or to be killed. I said, I need you to
know that you won't get away with it because and

(01:01:41):
I'm talking just like this to her or the phone,
and I said, because there's someone I've told everything. And
I was so terrified. My vision instantly, my brain tilted
and it was just terrifying, and I was just shaking
like a leaf, like I could didn't even hang up
the phone, it was shaking so hard. And because she

(01:02:03):
started going who did you tell? Who did you tell?
And she just kept repeating that over and over and over,
and it just sounded so wow, just unhinged and so desperate,
and it was just exactly what I needed to hear.

(01:02:24):
And then that was like the last conversation that we
had for a really long time. We did have some
some later after that, at a later time, but for
a long time then I was just kind of done
with my mom. I was just like, Okay, you know,
there was no Carrie. Why are you thinking that? Or
you know, yeah, how can you think that about your mother? Yeah?

(01:02:48):
She is, she's alive as well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Here, Yeah, well I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
How well she is. She was never very well, but
you know she's still she's still alive, and she's by herself,
and she doesn't have anything to do with only one
of her children, and he's definitely highly involved, and the
others are not, and she has no relationship with them.
But the wonderful part, if there is a wonderful part

(01:03:14):
in all of this, is that I've been able to
help my other siblings to understand that it wasn't their
fault and it wasn't about them, that she just didn't
have it to give. Because I think when you grew
up with a mom and you can tell she's so
detached and doesn't seem to love you, but she seems
to be able to love another child, another one of
her children, that's super confusing and you want to make
it about you and boy, both of my other younger siblings.

(01:03:36):
They're quite a lot younger than I am, but they both,
I could just tell, really struggled with that, and I
was able to really help them to see that, you know,
and why she's so close to that one child who
is much like her, and she had a very unnatural
relationship with And yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Was your mom in the mk ultrap program as well?

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Do you believe? That's another great question. I mean I'm
gonna so I would have said I don't know before,
but now I'm going to say, yes, I don't know
how much or to what degree, but the signs are
just all there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
I was going to say it sounds like it, and
just energetically I'm picking up Yes, I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Think she had. I think she had just the idea.
I think she had. I mean, you could see it
sometimes she would, and especially toward the end when she
was kind of starting to get a little wifty in
her older age, sometimes she would adopt this just extremely
childish little girl voice and talk about herself when she
was a tiny, too little girl, Like I try to

(01:04:38):
ask her, you know, say something about yeah, she just
would bring everything back to herself. And when she was
a tiny she just yeah, she was really having a
hard time, and I could really see the switching going on. Yeah,
and now looking back, I could see it. When I
was a child. One of the things that she would
do is she would kind of go on these just
It didn't happen all the time, but when she felt

(01:05:00):
inspired to do so, she would kind of go on
these just rants or about things that were just shocking.
And one of them was when I was pretty young,
when she would talk about all this stuff. Yeah, when
I first started, it was a shocking but she would
talk about how this country, in other countries, it was

(01:05:21):
perfectly normal to sexualize your children and it was your right.
And that was definitely a belief in my family, a
multi generational belief, and I do know that clearly, and
what she would say was and I'm sure my grandparents
taught her this and believed the same thing, although they
were a little more careful about what they said in public.
But or you know, by the light of day. But
my mother would say, in other countries, children, little girls

(01:05:44):
are married by the time they're seven or eight. And
it's just in this country where the Puritans came here
and spoiled everything with their puritanical beliefs. And oh, she
would just go on and on and she would wow, wow,
very true. And another thing that she I can remember
her talking about that was just utterly shocking, was and

(01:06:05):
again man, dissociation. Just yeah. She was talking about cannibalism
and how that's another thing that really the pure you know,
it's really quite normal in other cultures, and I surely
just here that wow. Yeah. And then she would give
me details about what it was like and what it
tasted like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
And so she's she admitted to you as a child
that she had eaten human flesh before. Did she say how?

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Why not asking questions? Okay? And I knew. I knew
because I'm sure I did as well. And yeah, it
was just part of some of the rituals that were
going on.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
And that was my next question, what was it part
of you? So that yeah, at least jibes. And I've
heard that from so many other survivors who have been
in ritualistic, abusive family lineages, where that is it's kind
of normal.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
And that's what she was telling me. This is really
all quite normal, you know. It's just these you know,
puritans who've just spoiled everything and made it so we
can't you know, be ourselves and we have to, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
And again it's so multi generational, it's so multi multigenerational.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Yes, yes, she would tell stories about when she was
a little girl and my grandparents, after World War two,
had left their children. They had three children, and they
left them on the family farm down in northern California
for I think three months while they traveled around Europe,
meeting with different dignitaries, you know, supposedly for some kind

(01:07:46):
of research regarding I don't know TV or I'm not
sure what my grandpa's story was, but it was probably
everything to do with mk ULTR. That's when they were
bringing it over here, and that's where they were putting
it into place. And every place they of was a
known programming site when their children were little. Of course,

(01:08:06):
every one of the places their children were born, so
that's a little bit of a clue to And then
when the children were left for those three months on
the family homestead, they were just sexually abused right out
in the open. And this is another pretty highly connected,
successful family who was you know, pillar of the community people.

(01:08:27):
And but you know they believed in this sexualizing your
children too. And so my aunt that I was very
close to kept trying to talk about what had happened
while they were down there, and the family would just
get so irritated with her because you know, she thought
it was wrong, and she was trying to work out
why they were being so sexually abused for hours on

(01:08:48):
end in front of the adults, by the adults, and
with nobody, you know, challenging that at all. And then
the kids, the children were all acting it out with
each other and it was just this extreme, you know.
And so my mother did talk about that some. I
remember that, but my aunt really talked about it because

(01:09:08):
and I understood. I understand why, I really understand her better.
After she passed away, I was so sad because I
didn't get to ask her the questions, like she tried
her whole life to figure out what's going on, And
it was so sad for me that she died never
having known what happened to her. She was absolutely stunningly beautiful,

(01:09:29):
and she I always used to call her my movie
star Auntie because she was, you know, she looked like
a net Punicello, only she was more beautiful. She was
just really stunning and she had beautiful figure, and I
think she was used terrifically, you know. And there's a
whole other story of my grandfather's brother was also a
doctor and in the Nebraska area, which was notorious for

(01:09:52):
a lot of trafficking and you know, the Franklin scandal
and all that stuff, and I was definitely, you know,
used in that area as well. And I believe, I
know that my aunt was too, but she didn't know
it and I didn't figure that out, and I didn't
recover memories about those things until after she had passed,

(01:10:13):
and that was just so sad for me, because I
just thought it was sad that, you know, she lived
and died without ever understanding and she was really trying
to figure it out, but considered the black sheep of
the family because they were all about secrets, you know,
and she was all about I'm not doing. They couldn't
control her. She was just uncontrollable by them.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
And your story and even your aunt, it's proof that
you can break free from these family lineages. You can
break free from the network. It only takes one person
to break free and then hopefully heal that family line.
And I've told you this before. You are the one
to do that for your family, no small feet, just

(01:10:55):
clearing out generations of dark frequency. It's from the family line,
but there are so many generations. Oh gosh, way back
probably thousands of years. I think I would imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Yeah, I think this is for sure a bloodline family.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Oh yeah, I one thousand percent. And and there's many
beautiful souls like yourself who incarnated into these these tough
family lines to heal and clear it for good so
it doesn't continue that We'll say, you can call it
maybe in a very simplistic way, like a disease or
a curse, that energy that that start.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Of the disease word, because because it it's less judgmental.
And the minute you start separating yourself and judging and
it just it becomes unhealing. And yeah, you know this
is I don't understand why all this took place and

(01:11:56):
was passed forward for so many generations, but it did.
And you know, there were people who loved my mother
and thought she was amazing, so you know, they get
to and you know, I suppose Pete had his people too,
and you know, I just didn't want that, and I

(01:12:17):
always knew I did from the time I was a
very young girl.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
You were always awake and aware from a.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Very aware out how to navigate that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's interesting. I had this beautiful
insight that my team gave to me the other day.
It was based off something something someone said to me
just the other day. And I won't go into the whole,
long convoluted story how this all came about and something
I've always felt, but I got my validation. People in

(01:12:48):
these bloodlines, like your family, for instance, like Pete, like
your mom, they forgot how to love. They forgot how
to love what love is. They've lost their hearts. Where
these people have lost their hearts and again there's a
long convoluted history going back eons of how that happened.
But they don't feel love. They don't know what's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
So obvious to me. They seek power. Their ego is
out front, and so it's just a different motivator, right, Yeah.
And I could just so clearly see that they were
wired so differently than I was.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
There's a show I'm watching. I've seen it before. You
might want to watch it. It's called One upon a Time.
It's actually kind of a silly it's a Disney It
was an ABC Disney television series based on all the
fairy tale characters, but like kind of it's very spiritually
based about reincarnation.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
Highly recommend it to my second go round. In the episode,
Oh you'll love it. It's six seasons, like twenty five
episodes of season. You can watch it forever. It's great.
And the episode I just watched last night is again
it goes goes back. There's a it's so symbolic of
what we're going through right now. There's you know, evil,
it's the battle of good versus dark essentially, and there's

(01:14:09):
evil we'll say family lines. And it's a very narcissistic
based evil relationship this woman has with her mother. They're
both evil, but the mother is much more evil. And
in the episode I watched last night, it's because she
took out her own heart willingly so she wouldn't feel things.
And in the episode, the daughter recovers her mom's heart

(01:14:31):
it's very magical how they do it, and inserts it
back into her mom's body, and then almost instantaneously, the
mother just remembers her as a child and just feels
this beautiful, compassionate, empathetic, warm love for her daughter that
was missing for her whole life. It feels really symbolic

(01:14:51):
to me of family lines, situations like what you've been
through growing up.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Right, And like, you know, I never like she was
my mother and so like I always tried to help her,
and even to our very last conversation, I was still
trying to help her and to tell her that, you know,
if only she could just admit and you know, repent
or say she was sorry, or you know, that things

(01:15:19):
were done to her too, and that she could be
forgiven and she just wasn't. She wasn't there yet and
maybe she never will care maybe she will tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
I mean, you never know. Crazy things have happened, right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Right, right right. We don't give up on people.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
We just you know, we give them time and elect
them to become prepared and ready and grace and grace.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
I never like, forgiveness is such a huge thing, and
you know, I haven't there, so I'm kind of still
compartmentalized in some areas, and forgiveness is one. There are
parts of me that can just you know, separate out
what they did and hate the deed, but not hate

(01:16:02):
the doer. You know, they they're so flawed and so damaged.
And Pete was just like this temper tantruming little boy
who just had all this rage, you know, uh, And
I learned more about why and what had happened to him,
and there's just so much. I could just talk forever,
but I don't want to, you know, I know we've
been at this for a while, and so I want to, Yeah,

(01:16:25):
you know, but I mean my story is it's just
so much because it went on for so long and
because it's so extreme. When I first woke up, I
kept trying to find another story that was that it
was kind of like wine and I have sense. But
in the beginning, you know, there weren't so many of us, and.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
You awakened early on, very early on, yeah, blessed, and.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
There was no support for that. You couldnot talk about
this stuff. It would be like, you know, you just
couldn't and nice Bush, you could have, but it wouldn't
have gone well. And you just knew that, so you didn't. Right,
you kept it to yourself, and I think.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
You did it the right way. You went through your
healing journey and you really, you know, uncovered many memories,
started understanding, researching, talking to family members before you were
ready to speak out. And I think that's probably I'm
not going to say there's a better approach. You know,
one approach is better than another, but I think it's

(01:17:27):
a smart approach. How you did it. And now that
you've made sense of all this, it's time for you
to tell your stories so you can help others.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Truly, I was so unbelievably fragile that if I wouldn't
have been able to, I wouldn't have been able to
stand up against I would have if somebody told me
you're crazy and you made this up, I would have
probably thought they were right. I mean I just have said, okay,
we'll go with that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Much easier, much easier to just call yourself crazy, right, Yeah,
much easier.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
I mean, that was one of the first things I
had to come to terms with. Well, I'll be lucky
if that's what this is, you know. Yeah, No, that
wasn't what it was. And you know, when things persist
this long, you know you have they're just I did
a lot of things to hold it up in fact
check it. And yeah, one of the things that was

(01:18:19):
so important to me was that I didn't speak out
before I was ready and say things that because you
don't you know, it took a while to figure out
what was all true, and you know, I really was
afraid that some of it probably wasn't, and so I
just until I really knew, I just didn't want to
say things that would ever cause problems for anybody else

(01:18:39):
who was because I know that, you know, the people
who don't want to believe this are probably looking for
people who you know, and I just didn't want to
be part of that. I wouldn't want to add information
that I didn't believe could hold up to scrutiny. Absolutely, yeah, yeah,
that I didn't fully believe was true myself or could
was still questioning.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
I feel you went about it in the right manner.
I don't want to call it calculated, but you were smart.
You were very smart and cautious and discerning.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
Very cautious, yeah, for sure. And then you know, there
were people in my life that I didn't want to
hurt with this either, and so you know, that was
a delicate thing, a delicate yeah, And to maneuver that,
and I had to honor myself and my story and
my process without infringing on their rights to not be

(01:19:30):
part of that or know that or you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
Know, absolutely yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Yeah, yeah, Sometimes you can't claver people with the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
I know, I kind of have to ease them into
it absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
Yeah, and make sure that Yeah, and I was always
I mean it was tough for me. I was you know,
and I was strong, And that's one thing I always
did kind of know I was strong, strong, and you know,
I knew there were others that might not be and
might not want to, you know, hang with this true truth.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Yeah. Yeah, Again, it's a it's a lot easier for
people to mask it, hide it for as long as
they can. And again, it's all intovine timing when somebody's
ready to awaken to that truth and understand it and
and heal from it. And I think I've said this
to you privately. I know there's other layers that you're
going to begin to peel back and remember as you

(01:20:22):
continue in your in your journey in this lifetime. And
it's it's to me, it feels exciting, like the energy
behind everything happening for you right now, it feels really exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. And and
the thing that's exciting is because it's it's choice time.
I can either continue to live quietly and small and
believing that invisibility is keeping what's keeping me safe and alive,
or I can say, no, I'm not going to live
that way anymore. I'm gonna I'm going to begin to
join in and participate in life, speak about what happened

(01:20:57):
to me and lendsort to other people who've been through
what I've been through.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. I forget. I think
the background looks so much darker when we first started,
your background, and it's so bright and light right now.
Am I crazy? Call me crazy? Maybe I'm seeing this clairvoyantly,
but it's like this beautiful, like I mean, beautiful peachy
glow is just surrounding you right now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
Well, and there's not there's no light on.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
I mean, I'm telling you, it looks so different. It
was much dimmer when we started. Call me crazy, But
maybe I'm just seeing this very energetically right now, but
it appears so much brighter. You appear so much brighter
as as we're kind of wrapping up here, And I
think it's very symbolic of how important it was for
you to begin sharing your truth and sharing your story,

(01:21:47):
putting it out there because it's time for this to
be revealed and I think it's an added layer of
healing for you as well, to finally put it out
there in order to.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Find that it will hoping that it will feel like
a burden lifted. Carrying other people's secrets that are that
horrific just does not feel good. And I do not
want to do that any longer.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
No, And it's yeah, no, it's it's better.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
And I know in this episode, unless you want to
dive a bit deeper, you let me know how you feel.
But I know feel good to you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
Yeah. A couple of things come to mind. One is
I feel like I could, I could just do this forever.
And I'm so surprised by that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
I know, look at that because you were a little nervous, right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
I wasn't sure it was going to go well at all.
I thought I might only have.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
I knew it would.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
I know. I think just the questions really helped because
it would kind of, you know, give me something.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
To yeah, bounce off of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
Yeah, yeah for sure. So but I also feel like,
you know, this is this is a good first session.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
That's what I feel as well.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Yeah, And I feel like it's kind of a good
stopping place, you know. I sort of went all around
a lot of things that we didn't go deep into
any one thing. I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
We raised we raised the surface with Yeah, that's a lot.
And I think it was a really good start. And
if you're open to it and you want to come
back on and share more of your story, I would
love to have you if that feels right for you.
And of course you know you'll be sharing your your
full story in other ways in the future. I see
that very clearly, and I think this was a beautiful start.

(01:23:36):
It feels so good. How do you feel.

Speaker 3 (01:23:39):
I'm just kind of overcome by emotion and that I
didn't have much of an expectation and I was just
okay if it didn't go well at all, and so
I'm just delighted that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
Mm hmm. We did it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
You did it, You did it. I was just here
to help hold space, you know, be a journal.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
Along a long time coming. And it feels amazing and
I know that I can do it now.

Speaker 3 (01:24:06):
And I don't think I'll ever have a sleepless week
again leading up to it, because.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
I know I felt so bad all week. And for Carolyn,
she's not going to sleep a wink, She's not going
to sleep a wink and.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Every time I would think about it, my brain would
just go on to overload. And but anyway, we did it.
And I'm so grateful, and Kelly, I just can't thank
you enough for just playing such an important role in
this for me.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
Oh absolutely, it's it's my honor and my pleasure. And
I know this interview is going to help so many people.
I just feel it so many people, and it's it's
it's time. It's time for your divine mission in this life.
And you're going to help so many survivors heal, clear

(01:24:53):
and make sense of their lives. And that's what you've
been doing for yourself the past few years, is really
putting the pub pieces together, and you're here to help
others do that and aid in their recovery and their
healing journeys. And it's it's just so beautiful and how
brave you are. I want you to be very proud
of yourself. I'm hearing that very strongly to say from

(01:25:16):
your higher levels, be so proud of yourself for what
you did today. It's it's really incredible what.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
What you're able to the word survivor is hard for
me because it leaves out the ones that didn't survive. Yeah,
and that's a huge piece and an important piece, and
so many didn't and the fact that I did and
if I can just speak for sure boys and not

(01:25:48):
forget them, absolutely, m Yeah, it feels good.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
Absolutely, And there's still survives in my eyes, even if
they're not here in the physical rights right now.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
Thank you for saying that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
Yeah, there's still survivors because we're pure consciousness, we don't
ever die technically, that's so true. There's still survivors they
are and maybe there't.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Life and lived but on this plane, but that doesn't
mean they aren't survivors. That's beautifully said. Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
Yeah, and maybe there's a new term that you can
come up with instead of using survivor. I feel like
that's just a common term that's kind of used.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
Oh, it totally is. And I used to use it
all the time, and then I just one day I
had this thought that it just didn't work for me
very well as much anymore because it just felt so yeah,
like it was leaving big peace out.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
But there's still there's still survivors they are.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
Love that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
Yeah, that's a good place to end. I think, How
does that feel true.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Thank you so much, it feels perfect. Thank you, Carolyn,

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