Exposing Abuse in the Dance Community with Juliette Angelo

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, I'll be speaking with Juliet Angelo, who
is sharing her personal experiences and allegations regarding abuse within
the dance community, including at her mother's New Jersey based
dance studio. These are Juliette's personal perspectives share to raise
awareness and advocate for change, and they reflect her own

(00:21):
experiences and beliefs. The views, opinions, and statements expressed by
Juliet are hers alone and do not necessarily reflect mine
or the views of this podcast. While I may express
empathy or agreement with Juliet during the conversation, these are
intended to support her as a guest and do not

(00:41):
constitute verification of her claims or legal conclusions. The statements
shared in this episode are not presented as verified facts,
and neither Juliet nor I are making any formal accusations
of wrongdoing against any person, organization, or entity. All individuals

(01:02):
and entities mentioned are presumed innocent unless proven guilty in
a court of law. This episode is not intended to
harm anyone's reputation or infringe upon their legal rights, and
we fully respect the principles of fairness, due process, and accountability.
This discussion includes sensitive topics and the purpose is to

(01:24):
foster awareness, dialogue, and positive change within the dance community
and beyond. If you or someone you know has experienced abuse,
I encourage you to reach out to a trusted professional
or organization for support, and, if appropriate, consider contacting law
enforcement or the proper authorities to ensure safety and accountability.

(01:47):
This podcast expressly disclaims any liability for the statements made
by the guest or myself the host. By listening, you
agreed to approach the content with an open mind, understand
that it is shared solely for advocacy, informational, and awareness purposes.
Thank you for listening. Welcome to Worrier of Truth. I'm

(02:10):
your host, Kelly Dylan. Part three with Juliet Angelo.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Juliette is back. Welcome Juliette. How are you? Part three? Good?
Exciting it is. We've had an eventful warning and Kelly, oh,
we have always always something.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Let me tell you NonStop.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I'm good. I'm excited to be here again sharing more
of my life and I feel I just feel very
different today. I think just because it's been well, it
hasn't been that long. It's only been two weeks since
the first episode, which is so crazy. Hey, No, it
has not.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
It's been longer than two weeks really.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
And it might be like maybe three weeks. No, it is.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
So much longer, doesn't it. Maybe it's just me. I mean,
you know, my favorite line time isn't real.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
In three weeks since the first episode, I feel like.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
It feels like we posted that years ago. It's wild.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
A lot better because I don't know, I just think
that everything is all the fears that I had have
just kind of dissipated.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, that is why it's so important to come forward
and share your story, because you it's healing and you
kind of let go of that last kind of psychological
hold these people have on you, and it allows that
like true freedom to come in, you know, with your life.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
So I feel like that today, I really do. I
don't know. I just I feel at peace. I really do.
And maybe it's because it's a new year or something,
but I just feel so positive and like I'm doing
the right things and I have positive intentions and I've

(04:00):
built quite a little community and support team around me
as well. That's very encouraging of me to continue to
talk about this stuff. And I don't know, my life
is just kind of coming together in a beautiful, serendipitous way.
And this is my last. This will kind of be
our last podcast that before I get back into music

(04:22):
and doing stuff. And we still have to do that
Church episode, which I think will be awesome.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Okay, so technically second to last, we'll say, if you
want to do.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
The Church the last one before I like go on
the road again and play. So I'll kind of get.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Right, do you want to promote? Do you want to
promote that? When are you going out on tours? I
don't know if anyone's you never know.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
I took off December, but I go I do a
touring Patsy Cline tribute show, So I say we hit
the road. It's literally me and my guitar and my dog, Yeah,
my dog. We go to Great Falls next weekend, and
then I go to Aberdeen the weekend of the twenty fifth,
and then I go to Idaho Falls the first week

(05:06):
of February, and then I do a double header and
Medora the last week of February.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
So you're on a many tour.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
How fun? I know, so fun? And then I think
I'm back in Billings in March, but I don't know.
After that, I haven't. I haven't booked further, which is rare.
It's unusual of me. Usually I plan like really far ahead,
but just with everything going on in my life, I
kind of felt this feeling of just ye, I can't
let it play out because who knows what new is
going to come into your life? Going through so much,

(05:34):
there's so many things going on that I feel like
that's a that's a good amount of shows. I could
even take a or two off and then well, I'm
rebooking everything from last year too, So there's just a lot.
I do all of it myself.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
So you're your own manager, will say, I own everything, yeah,
with me, social media management. You played the music before.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I'm the one, you know, messaging all the local media,
doing the Facebook ads, and I do all of that.
So but it's a lot to balance. A jack of
all trades, Oh yeah, are a jill of all trades.
Oh I like that jill of all trades.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
But I feel like when anyone's starting out, I mean,
it's very similar for me for my work, my business
that I run, I do everything everything too much.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's so great to know what you're doing. It really is.
Get my own contracts, like I do everything.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Is it's empowering, like being in charge of you and
getting to run things and learn the intricates of whatever
industry you're in. I think it's empowering. It really is,
especially as a woman.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, exactly. I don't know if it's controversial to say,
but the best advice I ever gave myself was negotiate
like a man. And I just I'm just emotionally, I
take myself out of it and I'm just you have
to numbers because I'm so I booked. I had a
great booking and it was something I worked so hard
to get and I was so thrilled to just get

(07:08):
the booking. It kind of felt, oh, just take it,
take it. And I was like, no, see if you can,
you know, get a little more. And I did, and
all the smart she just asked for, I just said,
you know this, I would love this to average out
with my other shows that I do independently. Can we
meet at this number? And he literally was just like,
here's the updated contract. Let me know if all this works.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I love how you're saying that. I remember years
and years ago I got this great job.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
I won't say what.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
It was a big company, A big, a big local
newspaper in the Tri State area.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
And I got this job.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
And I think it was my mom who said, ask
for ten thousand dollars more. Just ask for ten thousand
dollars more. Ten thousand dollars is reasonable. I think she
said to me, like men.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Would do it.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
And I was so nervous. I was like, oh, they're
going to say no. And I did it and they
said yes. And it's so true. They tried to underpay
women many companies. They really you do for it, they
just they just get it. So this is this is
Julia and I telling all the women listening, always ask money.
Always you deserve that you have to.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Know your value and what you bring to the table,
and that that's pretty much it. And if you have something,
you know, I don't need to disclose how much I
make for my shows. It's a it's a it's a
significant amount, like I do really well for myself. Oh good.
It didn't start out like that, And then I think
I learned. You just you don't go backwards once you

(08:35):
get that momentum going. Of course, there's certain opportunities that
I'll take on that maybe pay a little less because
they are more heartfell or it's a benefit concerts like that.
But yeah, you just once you get that momentum going you,
you gotta embrace that power that you have and keep

(08:55):
it that way because that's how you continue to grow
and you get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
Instead of plateauing and just saying, oh, this is good,
this is good enough, No, like it's it.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Don't accept the bare minimum. Never ever, you'll ever.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Diminish yourself or sell yourself for less than what you're worth,
because I think it's that's what causes a lot of
people to plateau. And you know, exclusivity for me is
a huge thing too. I don't I don't play in
my area a lot, Like when I travel, it's only
once a year in that area. So then when people
come and see you, you know, for music, it's a

(09:30):
big thing. Oh she's only here, you know.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Wow, that's smart.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
So there's a lot of there's a lot I've had
to learn with my podcast that I haven't started yet.
I would love to talk about how I how I,
you know, manage all of that, not that I'm you know.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
So I love that idea for you teaching like musicians
up and coming musicians, how to market themselves, how to
get gigs, how.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
To lot of it, and how to do it without
TikTok because I've done all this the old school way.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Oh I love that.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I love this idea. I did all of it my
social media pretty much. The only thing I used was Facebook,
and all of it was pitch email and you know,
creating a brand. And yeah, it's been a lot of work.
But and I don't also don't want to because I
just said, I said, it's not like I'm booking out
the rhyme and auditorium. But that's not there's no levels
to this stuff, like I'm I'm I'm booking five hundred

(10:22):
you know, four hundred seater shows.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's a lot. That's incredible, I think.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, And it's you know, sometimes it's even harder to
do that in certain areas where music is not a
huge thing because Nashville, Anybody's going to go to anything
because it's Nashville. So to build a name in lesser
known areas, in the long run, the longevity that you
have is unmatched because Nashville, you're only hot for twenty

(10:47):
four hours.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Like, what's it like, I've never been to Nashville. I
don't like country, no offense, not my genre of choice, Okay,
but I respect it.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
I do respect it.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
But what is the energy like in Nashville Because you
lived there for a few years.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Right, Yeah, it's pretty chaotic. When I lived there, I
mean it's pretty. It's also pretty magical. But I would
never live in I think to visit it's a lot different.
Now they call it nash Vegas, but when I lived there,
I mean I was pretty much just in recovery there.
I didn't ever play live there, but yeah, it's it's

(11:23):
a it's a party town, Okay. Well, like Tennessee is
just so beautiful. I've never been to Tennessee. My gosh,
it's so weird.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Is it the Smoky Mountains? Is that in Tennessee?

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Is it the Smokies? They could not tell you.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I think I think it's the Smokies. I could be wrong,
don't quote me.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
It kind of reminded me of well, not really because
I compared to New Jersey, Like, I think Tennessee is
just gorgeous, but it kind of has that same humidity
that I was missing in California. So there's that, you know,
in the wild life and the snow that that type

(12:00):
of thing. Yeah, but yeah, anyway, now I'm in Montana
and here we are again and.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
In this episode, another episode together, and the focus of
this episode is abuse in the dance community, because I
don't know if people realize not only are you an
actress and a musician, but you're also a dancer. You
danced for many, many years as well.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
It's it's pretty crazy and full transparency. Like me and
Kelly already recorded this episode and again, yeah, we did
practice run. I was way too emotional and not nearly
as processed as I thought I was, which is you know,
I didn't realize. So one of the things that I

(12:49):
brought up in the in the last the episode that
we're not going to release it, this kind of this
element of my life kind of falls through the cracks
a lot because there was so much other stuff going
on in my childhood that even when I talk about
the abuse that I went through, you know, I I

(13:11):
don't know, it's just always it never really it's not
the focal point of my story, and it's a huge
part of it. But because of all the other elements
that were going on and everything else I went through,
I find that it kind of slips through the cracks.
And because of that, you know, even in my own recovery,

(13:33):
I never focused too much on the dance studio specifically,
like some of the abuse that went on there hit
me like a freight train. But it wasn't like I
was going through the inner workings of the studio and trying.
You know, it's just not That's not where your brain
really is when you're thinking about stuff like that. So
when we did that last episode, not that there's anything

(13:54):
wrong with it, it's just I didn't it felt too
I was all over the place like it wasn't how
I want to present this. It's a very positive subject.
When we made the decision to re record it, you know,
I really had to take a few steps back to
me like this, this could potentially affect a lot of people,

(14:15):
and I want to do it in the most sensitive,
understanding and empathetic way possible while still telling the truth
but protecting others in the process, because I do have
a lot of speculations about parents and a lot of
speculations about some of my friends' home lifes, and that

(14:37):
is not my place to speak on what I suspect
could be happening, and that was That's what's really hard
about stuff like this is that, you know, the people
that I grew up around in the ones that were
attracted to the dance studio and kind of became these
pillars at the dance studio. Now that I'm older and

(14:59):
I can look at them and look at their lives,
it seems like it could potentially be a reflection of
what I grew up in and that's why they were,
you know, so attracted to this place and these people.
But again, there's just certain things that it's not my
place to speak on, and that that is truly and
I could speak on it because I do have actual memories,

(15:19):
but it's too sensitive and there's too many there's too
many people involved that are not processed and have not
you know, done their inner work, and it is not
my place to try and trigger trauma out of them.
So again, I'm but I'm fully comfortable talking about what
I experience.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
It's just this will be this episode will be your
first hand experience.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, your memories. You know, there are things that I
want to talk about, and you know about the parents
and their behaviors and the first person that always pops
up in my head is the woman who bathed her
daughter into her teenage years, because that's similar to me
co sleeping with my mom until I was you know, fifteen,
sixteen seventeen. So there are a lot of red flags that.

(16:06):
But you know, there are just certain I am Italian
at my you know, and my blood is Italian. Of course,
there were certain people that really pissed me the hell off.
And this episode, I'm gonna be way more contained and
way more.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
That Jersey won't come out to too harshy.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
You know, with the way that I've been treated the
past couple of years, it's natural that I would feel
absolutely but it's but again, like I I'm fine being
who I am. Like I understand that I can be blunt,
and you know, I'm very emotional and I could be
very loud and all stuff like that. But with the

(16:50):
way that I've been treated the past couple of years,
I think it was good that we sat down and
had almost like a therapy session together where I couldn't
just get it all out, because it is, it's been
really messed up, and it's been years of me being
swept under the rug by people that I even cared

(17:12):
about as a kid that I thought had my best
interest in mind. Who one I was told was my
godmother who has completely just had the same narrative as
my mother and allows her children to also grow up
at that studio. So these are people that my childhood

(17:33):
heart genuinely cared about, and now as an adult looking
at them, I can see that these were not, you know,
necessarily safe for good people to begin with. But as
a kid, I took what I could get, you know, course,
so if someone showed me any ounce of decency, I'd
really cling on to that. And those that was the
emotional side of things that was really hard for me

(17:54):
to process, because these were safe people that I loved.
I had one well, I would wait. We had this
giant picture window, and I would wait by the window
for her to show up at my house because I
was so happy that she would come see me. And
I was a kid, and I just loved her so much,

(18:17):
and she'd come over and her and my mom would
probably get drunk or something, which is what my mom
did with everybody, but I just loved her. And I
remember we did this dance to like we played Come
sail Away, and we were dancing on the couch, and
you know, when I came forward, it was not the
response of, oh my gosh, Juliet, I'm so sorry. You know,
I saw all these I had all these suspicions, like

(18:39):
you know, people who have reached out to me and
said that it was completely my mom's narrative, completely brushing
me under the rug. And it's disappointing. I'm sure for you,
it's another heartbreak because and the thing is is that
I'm I'm not interested and ever reconnecting with any of

(19:02):
these people. You know, the damage has been done. And
I think hopefully when they come to and understand the
severity of this and are able to accept reality, maybe
we could have a conversation about something. But the damage
has been done. And I'm not saying any of this
with hopes that they're gonna, you know, change their mind.

(19:23):
It's just purely from an emotional standpoint, like that's really hard,
and this goes a lot of survivors go through this.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Where I was gonna say so many, so many deal
with this.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Right you can fight in your favorite aunt and they
tell you you can never talk about this again, you know,
and stuff like that. The book I'm reading, she told
her mom that her dad was abusing her, and they said,
you know something, tell your husbands. You need to just
keep this to your fault for the rest of your life.
So you hold these people that you love, that you

(19:53):
think you can trust, that fail you again and again
and again. And they failed me. You know, these people
that grew up around me, who were my babysitters from
my mom's studios, my godmother quote unquote. I don't know
if that was actually my godmother. I remember my mom
would call her that. People that you know, parents, they

(20:14):
failed me and they didn't even have they didn't even
reach out to me afterwards and try to make it
right or believe me. And that was something that's that's
really hard. And you know, certain parents of students that
I grew up with that you would think if anybody
you cared about had speculation and came out with I

(20:40):
mean not just the studio abuse, but what I grew
up with. I just I can't believe that you were
able to just turn a blind eye to it, call
me crazy, and continue on living your lives without any
care in the world. And I think the most fucked
up thing about it, because it is fucked up and
I'm going to say, not mess It's fucked up is

(21:01):
the people who reach out to me with care and
empathy and love for the mental illness that has taken
over my brain. And that is what's so corrupt about
this is that I literally just had that woman reach
out to me who was my quote unquote grandma, grandmother, godmother.
Not sorry, that's okay, he messaged me, I think on TikTok.

(21:23):
I've blocked her account, and I could be paraphrasing, but
it was along the lines of, you know how much
I care about you. I'm always here if you need
to talk. Not because she believes any of the abuse
I went through, but because I'm mentally incapacitated. It's a
lot of.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Gas lighting going on that survivors go through, so much
gaslighting even after the abuse is over, it's still abusive behavior.
You're having to endure.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Completely using someone's emotions. And I mean the fact that
like you care about you're trying to act like you
care about me, but are also trying to call me
crazy in the process and talk to me like I'm
a mentally incapacitated individual who's incapable of taking care of

(22:09):
themselves and has no real concept of any of their memories.
Do you know? How do you know how psychologically manipulating
and what an absolute mind fuck that is.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
That's abusive behavior, plain and simple.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
It's disgusting, but that is what I mean. So, like,
you want these people to reach out to you and
care about you, and they do, but in the most confluted,
messed up way. All the while, they're still with my
mom every day. They know that I have a restraining
order against her, and they are so unwilling to accept
reality that they just keep going along with it. And

(22:47):
it's it is, And I think it's important that I
talk about that, because that is a that is such
a disgusting behavior. If you're gonna if you're gonna talk
to me like that, don't talk to me at all,
you know. I don't know if they're if their attempt
is to get a rise out of me. I don't
know if they're trying to just getting I don't understand

(23:10):
the intent behind it. I don't know why that would even,
or if there is some part of their conscious that's
like believes me and it but just is so unwilling.
I don't know, But I really.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Can be all of the above, Juliet, all of the above.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
I don't understand the purpose in reaching out to me,
and not that not that she's kind of one of
the only ones. I mean, some did, but most of them,
it was most of them just go for my friends
and go online and paint narratives of me. Not a
lot of people reach out to me directly. She was

(23:51):
one of the only ones. And maybe that's why it
hurt so bad, because she was someone that I genuinely
loved as a kid, you know, like my mom's tap teacher,
who's the one that's always you know, saying I've worked
with a wonky therapist and all this stuff. That was
not someone I cared about as a kid. I always
thought she was mean, I never really liked her. But
this was someone that I genuinely cared about. And I'm

(24:13):
a grow I think what people also need to understand,
I'm a grown woman. Now. Don't talk to me like
I'm the you know, ten year old kid. I'm a
grown woman. My head is screwed firmly on my shoulders.
I'll testify in court to any of this any day
of the week. Like it's not you know, it's coming
to me.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Also, I feel a lot of people And I'm not
saying this is definitely the scenario here, but it could be.
Potentially there's been a narrative placed collectively within society to
paint many survivors as crazy and having mental illnesses, and
it's something I think a lot of people unknowingly just

(24:52):
kind of believe because the narrative has been painted purposely.
Of course, so people don't believe survivors. So I'm theorizing
this could be the case here. Maybe not, but I
think it's the case in some scenarios where the person
naively truly believes, okay, like she's got to be crazy
because they see one side will say of the alleged abuser,

(25:16):
and they're not seeing they haven't witnessed abuse. They can't
imagine that that could be even possible, and so to
protect themselves, they try to just kind of believe that
it has to be a mental illness. This can't be real.
It's easier to believe that it could be a mental
illness as opposed to this abuse actually happened.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
I think, too, Well, you're also protecting yourself and you're
absolutely well, what I assume is that you know most
of not that there's that many. There's I have not
had that, Like since we've had the podcast, I have
not had that any opposition that I has immediately been
attacked by my keyboard warriors on TikTok, who have immediately,

(26:00):
you know, gone after anyone who has tried to dismiss
me or debunk me or anything like that, because it's
just that's not the conversation that we're having nowadays, I think.
But I think a lot of these people as well,
I want to say, most of them have their own
non process trauma and able to write me off as crazy.

(26:21):
They never ever have to process or accept or try
and recover anything that's ever happened to them, And it's
a mechanism on their parts. I'm just saying, you know,
in my case, it was just incredibly disappointing and very
eye opening. Yeah, you see how these how I really

(26:45):
did not grow up around any safe individuals. Even the
ones that I thought were safe were handpicked by my
mother to protect her narrative, to control the environment, to
make sure that no one raised red flag about anything,
because the people who did were immediately cut off, just
like the vocal teacher. Yeah, that I looked very tired, overworked,

(27:09):
and hungry.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
And this is a common thread I hear from many survivors.
You know how, yeah, the abuse continues. That's how these
abusers enable the abuse to continue.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Think who they allow around and.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
As a child, you don't have say you don't have
say as a child who you can be around. It's
whoever your parents allow around you.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Also, I want to say, you know, not that there
were always there were that many people always over my house,
but the ones who did it was always a it
was always a big joke, and I always felt like,
you know, alcohol was involved, like there was always drinking
and stuff like it was. It was never I don't
remember ever being alone, you know, and someone asking me

(27:55):
questions about my life, like my mom spoke for me,
yeah the time. And I can assure you I'm sure
I had a million I mean, I know I had
a million ways I cried for help, you did. But
there were also my babysitters were young, so they were
still in their teens, maybe early twenties, So there's a
lot of my mom handpicked people that she knew she

(28:19):
could get away with this stuff. And also it's not
like I had that it wasn't this constant, frequent thing.
I was being left overnight with babies. No, like, my
mom was very much controlling of my life and was
with me ninety nine point nine percent of the time. So,
I mean, there are things that I don't remember when

(28:41):
I was very young, but you know, I just I
just was thinking people connected to the studio. As I
got older, it wasn't like this daily you know, all
the time. But if you know, like that vocal teacher
I worked with, she knew just from looking at me
that I would overworked, underfed, tired, being abused, burnt out

(29:04):
and that was it. And my mom never brought me
back there ever again, as soon as someone saw the
reality of what I was living in. And that's how
she has protected this for so long. And yeah, she
did a good job, because those same people are still
at the same dance studio, still working for the same woman,
putting their kids in the studio. She's brilliant at what

(29:25):
she does. My mom is brilliant at hand picking who
she knows she can, you know, manipulate and get away
with this stuff. Brilliant. My mom is a brilliant manipulator,
you know. She she Yeah, she's just she knows what
she's doing, and these editors that they know what they're.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Doing do they're very smart, They're intelligent in that sense.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Well about anymore. I don't know if her behavior right
now is pretty brilliant, but you know, what can you do?
At some point the cookie crumbles.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
So that is true, it always does.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
E can't keep it up forever. And I'm at that
point where I think that's why. I just I'm not
worried it's crumbling. The icebergs tipping. I've gotten numerous messages
about her. I've also about and my family generally and
her behavior, and I really feel like this is tipping.

(30:23):
I just feel it's been almost three years now and
I'm going to speak about my own experiences. I know
that others were affected because of what I was subjected
to with them, I don't know to the extent I
know when I did my statement with the Major Crimes Unit,
just to give everyone like a brief.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
A nice context.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
Yeah, if you didn't see the first episode, which is
where I talk about my story like in its entirety,
so that's everything I went through, not just in regards
to the studio I did when I when I came
forward with my podcast.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Three years ago, I did a public statement. It was
called Hope is the Bird. I put out all this information.
The Major Crimes Unit in New Jersey reached out to me.
They wanted me to do a statement with them, so
I wound up doing it. Nothing ever happened. I'm pretty
sure the investigation I was never followed up with. I'm
sure it was just swept under the rug like everything is.
And I don't know who told me that, but there

(31:18):
was a child abuse investigation opened up against the Dan studio,
swept under the rug. I think a cop laughed about it. Whatever.
But when I did do my statement, which felt more
like a criminal interrogation not a victim statement, might I add,
even though I was the victim telling them the things
I went through, I gave them. I think around ten

(31:40):
I want to say seven to ten names of other
girls at the studio that I knew were affected. I
had suspicions were affected, so that they could, you know,
potentially follow up with them. I don't know if they
ever did, And if they ever did, I doubt anyone
would say anything because no one's reached out to me
or has. You know, this is a very this is

(32:00):
a very very very tricky situation to be in. Because
the best way I can the best way I can
kind of compare this. The best thing I can compare
this to was a Larry Nasser case where he was
an Olympic gymnast. He wasn't a coach, he was the

(32:20):
bodywork doctor whatever, so he would do the adjustments on
all the girls and stuff. One girl came forward, no
one stood with her. Three years later. I don't even
know how many victims came forward. But it takes time,
especially when you're dealing with abuse that is as insidious

(32:41):
as this, where it's hidden, it's not it's not as
blatant as getting thrown on a bed and raped. It's
very very sneaky and secretive and manipulative, and they manipulate

(33:01):
your brain into thinking it's okay and it's just a
fitting or it's just an adjustment when it's an actual molestation.
But you don't put two and two together.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
It's usually as a child, if you ever.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Do, until you're much older, which is kind of how
all you know abuse works. But this or most of it,
I mean some people you know, I don't know the
majority of people I know. It takes late into your
late teenage years early twenties to kind of reconcile what

(33:38):
usually happened usually unless someone unless you're aware as a
kid and somebody taught you that, or someone catches it,
or you just know what's wrong. I mean, there's just
so many different layers to this, but this is this
type of abuse is really sick because it's very hidden,
and it's not just sexual. It's emotional, it's psychological, it's

(34:02):
fear based, so you know, it's you're controlled by your
own terror. And similar to the guy who got arrested
and I believe it was New York State Travis Saint Denny,
a lot of his victims that came forward with statements
said you were my mentor, I trusted you with everything.

(34:25):
I loved you, you were my best friend. So there's
a lot. My mom wasn't like that. I mean, she
was really mean. But you know that's also a level
of it where you trust someone. You're a winning competitor.
You know you're winning at all these huge competitions. Look
at how amazing you're dancing. Why would somebody who puts

(34:47):
that much time and effort into you and wants to
train you to be the best dancer, you could ever
be go ahead and hurt you. But unfortunately this is
all too And Larry Naser was the same situation. He
was an Olympic gymnast doctor like Olympians, and even that

(35:07):
didn't start this huge It didn't do what it needed
to really do, honestly, like there wasn't this huge reform
within the community. It got swept under the rug. That story,
like it's you know, when I mentioned him and people
don't even know what I'm talking about, and I'm like, yeah,
there you go. I'm pretty sure he had more victims

(35:28):
than Charles Manson, Like why are we and that's like
a household name. So why does this stuff always get
swept under the rug constantly? And then you have people asking, well,
why aren't these people in jail? Do you know how
many people are just out walking right now who have
done horrible, horrible things to children, many many who are

(35:49):
CEOs of companies and Hollywood actors, you know, the.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Reference are with the legal system. They need hardcore validat
of evidence to lock somebody away for most of these crimes.
That's why it's it's very easy to get away with it.
And like you said, it was happening behind closed doors. Literally,
Oh weren't around quite literally, and it was very subtle
and sneaky. And that's how they get away with it.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, and because you know, the legal system doesn't care,
there's not that there's not really a huge fear with
some of these predators because you get you get more
jail time for getting caught with weed than you do
raping a kid, which is just mind blowing. Not in
this particular situation. You know, I anticipate there's going to

(36:40):
be a lot more victims who are going to come forward,
and when they do, you know, this is this is
not a small sentence whatsoever for my mom and for
the other perpetrators. It's not. It's not going to be.
But in a lot of these cases, you know, you
have a one off kind of child molestation. He had

(37:02):
one victim. They don't they don't go away for a
very long time, they really don't. I mean Travis Saint Denny.
I think he got twenty years or something, which is
a pretty good amount. But when you look at the
when you look at the some of the cases and
some of the things that were just swept under the rug.

(37:24):
And I was listening to a podcast of a woman
who was sexually abused by a boss when she was
a kid, like her mom's boss. I guess that the
mom maybe was an employe or something and they thought
it was retaliation and the kid was lying, so they
just swept it. I guess because like she got fired

(37:46):
or something or oh my god. Yeah, So there's stuff
like that. And then turns out he wound up, you know,
abusing all these other girls. But that's how that's how
messed up this whole system is. But you know, this
is a very heavy episode. It just feels like there's
a lot of moving parts, and I want to be
as sensitive as possible. I also want to talk about

(38:07):
everything I can, just to the dance community is just
messed up generally, especially competitive dance when you have trophies
and money and with TikTok now and how people are
blowing up on TikTok and there's millions of dollars involved,
and there's dance cults like Dancing with the Devil, and
there's all kinds of right people, you know, put what's

(38:28):
it called poaching, or when you're trying to get somebody
off of social media and a manager is coming in
and whatever that word is. When they see someone dance
and they message them and they say, hey, ah, you
know that type of thing. Okay, yeah, yeah. There's so
many moving parts and there's so much money involved, and it's.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Crazy to me. I see, I'm not a dancer. I
never was in dance growing up. I've got two left
feet this life. But I would think dance should be
something fun that kids can do. But clearly no, they've
turned it in to a money making machine and it
takes the fun out of it.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Using kids.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
You're using kids to earn trophies and make money, right.
It's it's the kind of bullshit to me.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
They do this with everything, like they ruin everything. But
I think that there are you know, I do want
to take a second and just there are a number
of wonderful dance studios and there's.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Race, absolutely, I'm sure there is.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
It is fun and you know what that like. They've
reached out to me and said and a lot of
them grew up in dance studios like this and then
went on to open their own dance studios because of
how they were treated, and they want to be a
safe space for kids. So I think that's a beautiful thing, but.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
There's also on the flip side, a dark side to
the dance community and a lot of abuse potentially going on.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
There hasn't been one case of this. I don't remember
hearing one giant case of like a dance studio getting
taken now. And because of that, there are so many
people who engage in this behavior because they're not going
to get caught, and it's it's there's just so much

(40:11):
of this that goes on, and it's it's heavy. I
feel like this episode will be like a big release
for me because it's it's it's hard for me. You know,
this is it's hard because I have been smear campaigned
for three years now within this community at major dance competitions.

(40:36):
When I after I had hope is the Bird one
of my mom's Hope is the Bird is? When I
came forward with my story, one of my mom's top
dancers choreographed a dance about a woman with psychosis who
was fighting false memory syndrome. Oh no, everyone knew it
was about me. It went on to win at nationals

(40:56):
and all kinds of stuff, and that is how I've been.
That's so hurtful. You want to know why, because They
are protecting themselves because this whole network is so fucked
up that they're so scared of one person opening their mouth.
They're doing whatever they can to try to paint me

(41:17):
out to be absolutely of course.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
That's all they can do is call you crazy or
instill fear. That's all abusers can do.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Much, you know, they're so and I know, like, I
don't want to sound like a crazy poorson, but I
don't want to go over the top with it. But
there's so much power in what I'm about to say,
Like this is a huge network of people, and the

(41:47):
fact that dance competitions and neighboring studios allow this narrative
to be painted of me and allow this to be
perpetuated and encourage it and enable it shows how messed
up this whole world is. Because I came forward about

(42:09):
sexual abuse I experienced at a dance studio, Why on
earth would all of these organizations, conventions, all of this stuff.
Why would they go ahead and stand with the perpetrator
and not the victim? If we are practicing safe sport
for kids, why what are you hiding that is causing

(42:35):
you to go ahead and stand with the abuser and
not the victim. When we all know what a gigantic
problem this is in the dance world, how many pedophiles.
It's a breeding pit for pedophiles. You have unsupervised children,
parents are dropping them off. You could do whatever you
want with them. You have them from the age of

(42:56):
two years old. You can shape them, groomed them, manipulate
them into anything that you want. We all know what
a gigantic problem this is. And I was so disgusted
by the response that I got with in the dance community,
absolutely repulsed.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Was there any support when you first came forward?

Speaker 2 (43:16):
A few people, but not from anyone I knew, really,
And that was the most disgusting thing, where I'm like, damn, whoa.
You know the people who reached out to me, most
of them, there were a couple that I remember that
I did know. I didn't know the people, but the
ones that I did know growing up, No, they stood

(43:37):
with my mother, Well, like, you know, fuck it now,
like when when this tips, y'all, Like, I just it's tipping.
I just I just was so I'm still so I
can't even wrap my mind around how many people have
tried to protect this behavior. And I don't know, you know,

(44:04):
as a convention, if you have I don't know, I mean,
wouldn't you think like if I'm a convention, right and
there's a there's a notable individual who is speaking out
about sexual abuse that she endured, and there's an open investigation,
I would probably be like, I don't think I want

(44:25):
these people here, not because of anything that could potentially
be ongoing at that time, but just future reference like
if this, you know, when this crumbles, you were warned,
so like to have that warning and to have someone
come out and talk about this stuff and then to

(44:47):
completely just right.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
What organizations should take allegations of abuse very seriously and
they should do a thorough investigation themselves. I strongly believe
any organization.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Or choreographers who are going to visit studios, why, knowing
what you know, would you comfortably be able to go there?

Speaker 1 (45:18):
And very a lot of people tend to turn a
blind eye, we know, just in general, which you know
as it's I know, I know, let her if.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
I booked when the first episode we recorded, I referenced this, right,
it's like, oh, you know what, not even the venue
thing if I was working with a songwriter, because some
people go when they write with songwriters. Yep, I'm working
with a songwriter. He's super well known, you know, But

(45:51):
there's always been a couple of weird things people have
said by going when I work with him, turns out
a woman comes forward and says that she was raped
by him. I am now going to go back and
keep working with that songwriter. I'm not only putting I'm
not only you know, disregarding her and putting myself in danger.
And that's what these parents are doing too, by brushing

(46:14):
this under the rug. We're going to keep putting our
kid there. Yeah, keep putting your kid in the lions den, like,
keep dropping them off, keep turning a blind eye. I
just got a message from someone that one that still
is weird to me. I still think it might have
been somebody I was related to that might have made

(46:35):
a fake account, because in the message it said like,
feel free to post this on your story, which was
just a weird thing to say. She's like, I'm anonymous,
feel free to share this on your Instagram story. I
was like, what, what, Like, I don't know, you know,
like that's just a kind of thing to say. If
you're going to send somebody a personal message. It's not

(46:56):
like I screenshot and post everybody's messages on But she said,
you know, a bunch of parents here, we all we
don't know what to do. Like I believe you, We
just can't really believe that this stuff could happen. And
I don't know what to do about my daughter. And

(47:19):
I almost was like, who's the adult in this situation?
Like which one here is the one that? What does
that even mean? Like what is what do you mean? Oh?
We believe you, but we don't know what to do.
And I don't know. Maybe you know, take your child
out of out of an abusive situation. What do you
value more a trophy or your kid's safety? What's the

(47:41):
big hubbub? You know that you might ruffle a feather
and ruin your social reputation from a bunch of other
parents who clearly don't give a shit about their kids.
I wouldn't know. And I have had multiple dance moms
reach out to me and be like, I know people
who still vot the studio. We don't even talk to
them anymore. We don't know what the fuck is wrong

(48:03):
with them? Like people know, you know, there are really
solid parents out there, There's ones you know too that
have reached out to me over the years. I was
at your mom's dance studio, you know, for two weeks
before we took our kid out. We always suspected something
was up. Your mom is the meanest person, you know,
I've ever met, the scariest person I've ever met. That's

(48:24):
on your TikTok, like this is a known thing. So I'll,
you know, I'll kind of get off that subject. But
it's up to the parents. You know, we can educate
as much as we can about people, but do you
just have to basically care about your kid, And if
you don't, you don't and then that's why your kid
gets abused, because it's your negligence and some people. I'm

(48:47):
not saying that's why every kid gets abused, but in
situations like this, if you've been warned, if you know,
if multiple people have told you these are the signs
you should look out for, and you don't care and
you turn a blind eye to it, it's on you. Now.
You know you carry that blame. And I'll be the
first one to say that I'm not saying that it's

(49:08):
what happens with every child. There are some parents who
are wonderful parents and something accidentally happened. It's horrible, you know,
and you want to protect your kid every way that
you can, but sometimes you can't prevent certain things from happening.
I'm saying, in situations like this, when you've been warned,
you've been told time and time again, this is unsafe,
protect your kid, and then you put them in harm's way.

(49:29):
It's on you.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
And I think it's very important this episode because you're
here to educate parents and just people in general about
how easy it is for abuse to occur in organizations
like this, and how it is unfortunately more common and

(49:53):
more normal than people maybe want to believe or recognize.
How about how do you feel about now transitioning into
hearing more about your first hand experiences of what abuse
you endured at this dance studio? And of course it's
important to also note that your mother is the owner.

(50:14):
Do you want to give a quick little background that
this dance studio has been in your family for a
few generations now.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
I think thirty years. I could be right. Called for
dancers only in Little Falls, New Jersey. It's now in Totowa,
the original building where all my abuse happened got knocked down,
which is terribly ironic, around the same time that my
childhood home was sold. So I don't know, but my

(50:42):
mom and my grandma own it, and I don't I
never had like any kind of like when my mom
said childbirth was the most disgusting thing that ever happened
to her, that type of thing. It was the same
kind of energy around the dance studio. My grandma hated it.
My mom hated it. I think my grandma did the books,
so she had like the back office where I think

(51:02):
she did the books, or there was money involved. I
suspect there was money laundering. Obviously as a kid, I
don't really know what that looks like, but considering how
much money we had, I just find it to be
a bit suspicious in every aspect of my life. It

(51:22):
also probably is, you know, notable to say that my
aunt and uncle were under FBI watch for what tax
of Asian like money laundered. So I think obviously there
are you know, a lot of connections here with with
what was going on there. But my life kind of shows,
you know, as I've gotten older and investigated my own family,

(51:45):
I think there was some shady money going on and
like that.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
And also it's important to note at the same time,
obviously your your family owned this dance studio, you were
abused at the dance studio, but also we'll say a
bulk of your abuse happened to you at home, at
the hands of your parents.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I remember the most of my abuse at my house,
so but they're but you know, I remember enough at
the dance studio to take into consideration how gigantic I
think this, how many people this affected, and potentially how
many students involved. I just don't know. I really don't know.

(52:27):
I know what I know, and the rest is up to.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
And that's all you can do is share your ord experience.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, share what I experienced. But my mom and my
grandma owned this dance owned this dance studio. I don't
know why my mom never even said you liked dance.
I have my I think, you know, from my life
and knowing why my parents even conceived me, it seems
suspect that they wanted a bunch of children on supervised.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
And part one listen to part one of this podcast.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Sense to Yeah, but I think you know it makes
enough sense. But there's all there's gonna be questions and
they're answered in that, like we we've talked about my
life in.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Six and a half hours, so you got lots of
detail in there.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, answered, But I don't. That's why I suspect that
they opened it. Really, with everything else you know about
my life, that's what makes sense. I mean, I don't
know why else too, alleged pedophiles.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Was your mama dancer growing up?

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Did she? I think so? Dance? Okay?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Because your grandma started the studio, correct.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
I think they started it together.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Was she a dancer as well? Your grandmother?

Speaker 2 (53:46):
I don't think so, okay, So it was always a
little It just never made sense why they opened it
if you don't have a passion for something that's trenuous.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
And it'd be like me trying to open a dance studio.
I can't dance to save my life.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Be very odd. Yeah, I understand. When you understand my
mother and my grandma and their behaviors, it does, you know,
add up why they'd want to open something that was
kind of a free for all for however many children
they wanted in one place at one time without parents.
So I'll kind of talk about what I went through

(54:20):
in the bulk of the sexual abuse that I went
through there. But I, you know, my I had been
going to the studio for as long as I can remember,
you know, even when my mom my mom, so obviously
the studio is around thirty years old. I'm twenty five,
so when she had me, I just would always be

(54:41):
going there with her and stuff like that. I was
always attached to my mother's hip growing up. You know,
it was a very incestuous relationship. We were always together.
But I don't remember how old I was when I
remember the sexual abuse starting there. I must I was

(55:02):
definitely I was competing still, so it's probably before the
age of eight. Actually, what Yeah, I would have been before
the age of eight, because I stopped competing once I
went to Broadway, which probably is a good, you know,
answer as to why I don't hold a million memories
about this happening. I was very young, but I remember

(55:25):
my grandma had a back room for her office at
the dance studio in New Jersey, and we would go
in one by one most of the time. I do
have hazy memories of going in there with a friend,
but the ones that were hand you know, picked by
my mom. But I'll just speak on when I would
go in independently, and I remember this was very frequent,

(55:49):
like these fittings would kind of always happened more than necessary.
But I would go into the back room. The door
would be shut and locked behind me, and my mom
would be in there. I think my mom was always
in there. My grandma would be in there, and sometimes
another teacher or two. I have a a I do

(56:18):
one of the teachers there had has been there for
a long time, and I believe that she is still there.
And but I'll just talk on what happened with my mom,
because I the only person I remember touching me is
my mom and maybe my grandma. But my mom would

(56:43):
they would measure with the the tape measure was like
a fabric tape measure, and I remember I would get
like my crowch rubbed and my chest rubbed, and sometimes
I remember I would like have to take off my clothes.

(57:06):
Sometimes I'd be naked, sometimes it would be over my leotard.
And that was like that was like a normal fitting,
you know, Like I don't know what's so weird about
it is that because of the way it was presented,
like my brain didn't even register necessarily that that was
like sexual abuse until I was like, wait, something here

(57:27):
feels wrong. And that's how a lot of these memories
are is that they just feel wrong. There's no reason
why anyone should be touching your crotch and a fitting
and I remember.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Measuring you need to do down there? Absolutely not now.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
But I remember too, I almost and I don't want
to say like liked it, but it felt like ticklish,
like it felt good. But that's what I remember, And
this happened frequently. This was these were not the only
fittings that we'd have, Like, so I don't because I
don't want to throw like every seamstress under the bus

(58:03):
who came to the studio, because I remember that. But
that's what always stuck out about these was that why
were they in the back office with the door closed?
When I remember sometimes seamstresses would come in and we'd
have fittings in the rehearsal rooms or you know, in
in public areas. So why were these hidden?

Speaker 1 (58:23):
How often would these happen?

Speaker 2 (58:25):
From my remember, Okay, all I know is that, and
that I think it's because I was so young and
I don't know, and then I started working, so I
wasn't at the studio very much when I was working
on Broadway, and you know, when ye're before that age
of eight. I mean, it's I don't I don't know.
I remember it happened frequently though, because it was something

(58:46):
when I was in recovery and I was processing this,
it was it was like a very familiar thing. It
wasn't something that I felt like was a one off.
It was a frequent thing. And I I remember questioning
why we were always getting fitted.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
You said something, did you? Could you say something to
your to yourself?

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Okay, like what why was this? Our bodies aren't changing
like that. And once you have measurements down, you have
measurements down. Yeah, But I can't confirm or deny how
many times. I just know it was a lot, and
because and I think it was too, because I remember it.
If it was like a one off thing, with all

(59:30):
the other shit I went through in my childhood, I
would not fucking remember it. There is so much greed
that's just gone. So I think it was the consistency
of it, kind of like when my mom, you know,
would molest me at night, Like that's it's the same thing.
Like I don't know how many times it happened but
I remember how it went and because of that and

(59:51):
the consistency of it in life, it really lacked a mark.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
And because it was wrong, what was happening to you,
It was wrong, and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
No other fittings in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Felt that way correct to me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
In that way. Besides that one guy who my mom
knew had this little apartment in Manhattan and he smelt
really bad, and I remember his hands like I don't.
I don't think he did anything to me, but I
just remember being so grossed out by him. That was
the only other like fitting that I remember. I don't
remember the Billy Elliott fittings. I don't remember how the

(01:00:29):
grinch stool, Christmas filling fittings, the Mary Poppins fittings, because
they were probably normal fittings. Yep. Oh, when you have
these gob these memories that gob smack you for a
you know, kind of a dark reason. And it took
me a while to even understand that it was abuse.
And I know that sounds so weird, Like the way

(01:00:52):
that it was presented was so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
An eight year old or someone under the age of
eight doesn't understand what abuse is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
It's not registering. Also, it was so subtle and it's
so subtle because she wasn't taking kids, and I mean,
I don't know from my experience, she's not taking you
in the back and sodomizing you like it's a very subtle,
insidious type of abuse. And additionally, and this is what
hit me like a freight train in our last episode,

(01:01:22):
which was something that I didn't even really put two
and two together. I do know that it might have
been as I got older. I think it was as
I got older. I would be in the room with
them when they'd bring people in, and that is how
my mother was trying to brainwash me and turn me

(01:01:47):
into her. It would have been three generations I would
have grown up and become just like her. I also
do have like vague memories of me fitting like me
doing it, but I think but I remember I was young,
so I think that might have been when I came
in with a friend and my mom was like teaching
me how to do it, because I remember it was

(01:02:09):
someone who was like my height. And what's interesting, Around
that same time, I was having you know, reenactment trauma
with my friends and we'd play this game and I'd
always want them to like and you know, with all
the sexual abuse I was going through. It's hard to
pain point what was, what, when like and what I

(01:02:30):
was acting out at one point. But I remember my
like always wanting my friends to touch my crotch and
my and my chest, and that was how those fittings went.
So that might have been that kind of like attempt
to make it right. I have vague memories in Billy

(01:02:55):
Elliott in Leotard's and stuff like that too, like just
always yeah and like the way that my like crotch looked,
you know. But again they're so hazy. But I do
remember those spittings in the back office. That was the

(01:03:17):
main in my experience. That was like where the sexual
abuse took place. I don't remember anything else I have.
There's there's more we're gonna go into. I remember, you know,
my mom would take kids for private rehearsals during big
group rehearsals into the private room and close the door

(01:03:41):
solo by herself.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
I don't know, is that normal in the dance community.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
To do that? It was my normal. I don't catcha okay,
maybe okay, I don't know. I don't I I'm just
and it might be normal. And a lot of things
that can be normal, can also be corrupted by people.
So like absolutely, I think, you know, if you want
to take a kid and rehearse them independently because they

(01:04:11):
need a little help. Yeah, but nothing my mom did
was normal. And I'm trying to remember if there was
any anything else well with the fittings. In particular, I
have a very i have a very vivid memory of
a girl coming out and showing us her it was

(01:04:36):
her leotard or her tights. Oh no, I'm sorry, I
think it was her underwear and there was discharge and
she was showing us all the discharge on her underwear.
We were in the bathroom and that but that I wish,
like I wish I remembered more, but I just that

(01:05:00):
those are my I remember being in there sometimes I
remember it happening to me. And I remember the door
shutting as I was sitting out in the lobby like
a girl, like you know, someone going in and it's
shutting the wooden door. It had a gold handle and
it had like an old school dead bowl. I'm pretty

(01:05:23):
sure it was either that or like one of the
I think it was a dead bolt. But I just
remember that door shutting and it had like I don't know.
I just remember the sound of it, and you know,
the back room was where all the snacks were and
like stuff like that, and it had this creepy little

(01:05:43):
bathroom stall in it too. My grandma was always back there,
like that's where she was, and she was always there,
and it just it's I don't know. I think I
think that's enough. I think that does enough. Like that's
that's what happened. And I think that happened too, and
that's that is, Like I don't need to I don't
need to sit here and question what who happened? What

(01:06:05):
happened to who? And you know, this is your truth,
this is your story, is what I remember. This the
sexual abuse with my mom there. I have a number
of very hazy, weird memories. I have so many of
being in the back closet where all the I have.

(01:06:26):
First of all, I have dreams about the dance studio
all the time, which is interesting, weird. Yeah, but there
was I was always so scared of this like back
room there with all the like some of the equipment
and stage and props and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
So obviously fear, I'm gonna say, stemming from something, there's really.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Reason, absolutely of that. I was so scared of that
studio at dog like at nighttime too, like, just so
scared of it. It was reenactment trauma within the students.
That's a whole you know, other thing. Yeah, and my
memories of that are also hazy. But I would never

(01:07:14):
say any of the you know, older girls abused me,
nothing like. I would never say that. I think there
were just a bunch of people trying to cope, yea.
And as I got older, so we'd go back to

(01:07:35):
the studio, you know, I was working. This is like
teenage years. I was working in LA most of the time,
and i'd go back with my mom. And again I
don't remember much, but she'd always have me around the
young girls and the young students. And there's a million
pictures of me and the young students, and my mom

(01:07:56):
always had me there with all the rehearsals, and she
always wanted me to hang out with them. And I
fully believe, I fully think she was, you know, trying
to normalize having me around young students and slowly trying
to teach me to be like her. And you know,

(01:08:24):
I don't, I don't, I don't hate my mom. I
hate her for that I've always said, like, I don't
do what you want to me, but when you try
and start turning me into you, no, that's not that's
that's not even like that's that is the most evil
of evil. That like, I'm going to turn you into
the person that you fear the most in your life.

(01:08:46):
I'm going to turn you into that monster just like me.
Like that's so fucked up. But I remember I'd always
be around them, and even when I was I think
I must have been around sixteen, fifteen sixteen, I had
come off of a Nickelodeon show and she wanted to
do this viewing party and it was me and all
the young kids, and I said no, I didn't want
to do it. I was so uncomfortable, but she like

(01:09:07):
always wanted me around, you know, the young students, like
and they were like seven, eight, nine years old, like
these were young. And I don't remember much, and I
think that's on purpose. I think my brain is just
not even like letting me go there because every time.

(01:09:27):
That's probably the thing that that affects me the most
is even the idea that under my mom's jurisdiction, I
could have potentially hurt another child. And despite you know,
I was still a kid, I was still in my teens,
and I was still actively being abused. But it's it's

(01:09:48):
been really hard for me to reconcile with that. And
I think that's something that a lot of survivors struggle with,
is that you you sometimes will you don't mean what
you don't mean what you're doing. It's a subconscious thing.
It's your own way of coping. And I mean, just generally,
I think it's important to talk about that topic because
I've known so many, so many survivors who carry this

(01:10:09):
guilt because the things that they did when they were
in their young teens to younger kids, and it was
a behavior that was taught to them, and they feel like,
you know, well, I'm a pedophile, I'm a perpetrator. When
you know, it's a it's called reenactment trauma. And I
think that that line for me is drawn when you
know what you're doing. But that line for me is

(01:10:31):
also drawn to like, you can know what you're doing
at fourteen, but still not know what you're doing. And
I think that that's something that line for me is
drawn at my mom. This is somebody who has you know,
built a business off of this and has you know,
done everything to ruin my public image and you know,

(01:10:56):
smear campaign me, and she's well aware of what she's done.
And all you know, when you're fourteen, even if someone
catches you, you still need to put into like a therapy program.
You should not be sent to jail, because I think
that when you're that young and that vulnerable, there's still
so much you've barely lived, Like you don't even know

(01:11:18):
the repercussions of what you're doing because you haven't even
had the time to come to terms with what happened
to you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
And there's so much manipulation and brainwashing going on.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
One of the I had a friend, don't I haven't
spoken to her in years, but she had something happen.
She was fourteen. She was babysitting a four year old
girl and she played house with her. And it was
not playing house. It was total textbook sexual abuse. But
like that's how they played house with her when she

(01:11:52):
was a kid. She carried that guilt. I think I
was I think I was the first person she ever
told and I was like it, when you're that young,
it's not your fault. And then you know, we all
spend hours and hours going into the inner workings of
a quote unquote pedophile, when in reality, these are top behaviors.

(01:12:17):
My mom grew up in the same household I grew
up in, and she turned out like that and continued.
She chose to perpetuate the cycle.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
You're choosing not to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Yeah, but that was something that's always affected me and
something I never really spoke about because I know my
mom was trying to turn me into her, and she
was brooming me to be around the kids, and I
wanted to be around the kids, and I loved being
around the kids. And you have to understand, too, I
was so emotionally traumatized at that point in my life.
I was regressed to be their age. I had more

(01:12:49):
in common with a ten year old than I had
a sixteen year old girl, you know, and my mom too,
Like if any of my older friends got a boyfriend,
it would always be, Oh, you don't want to be
like that slut like, you don't want to be like that.
You just want to be like me, and you don't
need a man like. It's just everything was so backwards. Yeah,

(01:13:09):
But to go back to the studio, you know, there's
there's been a lot of there was a lot we
talked about the last episode, and I had close relationships
with a couple of the girls. A lot of my
friends were handpicked by my mom, and now as an adult,

(01:13:34):
looking back at that time in my life and looking
at their family dynamics, that makes sense. She went for
people that she knew something was already up, and they
would I don't know, I don't know. I don't know
how these people find each other. I know a lot

(01:13:56):
of them are Mob affiliated. That was something that we
I kind of came to realize when I was thinking about,
you know, the people that I've I've I grew up
around a lot of them, and my family is my
family's in the Mob. I mean, I don't even know
how I can deny that at this point. So a

(01:14:16):
lot of them, and the ones that have been the
most vocal about me and you know, trying to ruin
my image and ruin my narrative, are all the ones
that I suspect are one hundred percent if not mob affiliated.
Within the Mob. There's the way that their their families
have acted, and you know, dads have gone to jail

(01:14:40):
and gone on vacation for a couple months.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
And it's quite common in our area of North Jersey.
It's way more common than people realize. Still going on today.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Absolutely is though like this, there's I don't like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
The traditional sopranos, tony soprano kind of mob.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Understand. The point that I'm I want to bring up
is there is real child There's a part of the
mob that is child trafficking and child abuse. It's not
all the funny, Oh he's going to put a hit
out on you, not like that. I mean, you're like, no,
my dad brought me around like to his network and

(01:15:22):
within the mob, like the mob is also involved in
pedophilic abuse and pedophilic you know, urges, and they perpetual.
It's not just funny haha, soprano shit. It's like they're
a part of that network. And I think the people

(01:15:44):
you know that are potentially associated with my mom, I
suspect that they're a part of that side of the
network where more than likely.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
It's interesting. I had an interview. I don't know if
this will be posted. This interview I did with Carolyn
will be posted before after this one. Her family was
also in a network, a child trafficking network, a pedophilia network,
very you know similar, very similar to this network that
your family sounds like they are involved in, and it

(01:16:15):
doesn't have to be you know, Italian mobsters per se
that she grew up, you know, not on the East coast,
it was far removed from the.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
East coast of it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
There's all different levels and versions of it. And what
your family sounds like they potentially allegedly will say are
a part of is a network of some sorts where
there's a lot of illegal activities going on. Allegedly.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
Well, you know, my dad was never round at the studio,
and whenever someone would ask my mom what he did
for work, she'd always just say he was in the mafia.
So if that gives you any indication of.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
How she would say it openly like that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
Yeah, just like she said, I've been wanting to get
raped on Law and Order SVU since I was a kid.
She's desensitizing. And yeah, and potentially if I ever went
to law enforcement and said my dad's in the mom
and here's what I know, she's well, we're always joking.

(01:17:17):
He works in insurance, like he works, that's it. And
and also the way that it's presented to when she said,
like she always said that I wanted to get raped
on law and orders since I was a kid. When
I finally was raped, in my mind, well, my mom
said I always wanted this. Wow, So that cyclogical fuckery

(01:17:42):
goes so deep because she's actively grooming me to think
that I want to be abused. Yep, Like do you
know how I mean? That is just.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
I have no words.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
I have no words. Takes me wonder if like my
abuse was planned out throughout the years that they was
like a preparation period, a grooming period, and then something
would happen, and that because like more.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
Than likely, Yes, that's what it sounds like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
It's so bizarre, like it just it's I don't know,
but that is what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
Is what these families do, these networks do they normalize it.
In Carolyn's interview, she was telling me there was just
open stories that her family would openly discuss. Everyone knew
about it. It wasn't a secret about how you know
this person you know did X y Z, like really terrible,
terrible illegal things. Everyone just talked about it and accepted it.

(01:18:38):
It was normal. It's normalizing these disgusting behaviors.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Oh so I was it was a joke, you know,
with people in the mob. My friend's dad did illegal
he was a truck driver used to do illegal shipments.
It's not funny, Like the shit isn't funny. I know,
look at how we've sensationalized the mob on television, Like
it's not it's like a joke. It really is like

(01:19:02):
a joke. Now I was talking, you know, child trafficking,
labor trafficking, human trafficking, all this stuff. Yeah, it's not funny. No,
it's it's something that has become so sensationalized and glamorized. Right,
so down a bunch of different avenues. But I but
to go back, like a lot of the families that
have stood with my mom the most on all this

(01:19:24):
are all mob affiliated, every single one. The dad's the
dad who did illegal shipments with his truck allegedly, even
though we all fucking knew because everybody talked about it.
My mom told me through is my mom's one of
my mom's top dancers fathers who was one of the
ones that stalked on my Instagram accounts, and I believe

(01:19:45):
he commented on a bunch of things and I've I've
had to block him like at least times over the years, like,
you know, these are people that are my mom's closest
network and you are the company you keep They say, yeah,
and I've I also again like we knew that family.

(01:20:06):
She she went to my uh we went to the
same school. She was the one that I probably experienced,
you know, some of the some of the worst abuse
like with and I'm not going to go like too

(01:20:32):
far into it. I don't remember much. I know in
a lot of the ways that she's grown up. It
was really I don't know how how far it went,
but she was the one that I felt like I
almost became my mom when I was with her and
I wanted to control her, and when she kind of

(01:20:55):
stepped away from me and stopped being my friend because.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
She was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Scared of me. It really that was the one that
we talked about. It was really really hard, Yeah, really hard.
And I have my own suspicions about how she grew
up and looking at her family and the way her
mom and her father treated her, and you know, the
things that I saw on my side of things and
some of the memories I have. I think there's there's

(01:21:22):
a lot to unpack there. It's not my job to
unpack it. But I was very involved with them. So
I think it's important, you know, to mention that my
mom handpicked people where she knew they already came from
a fucked up family. Yeah. Yeah, And it's very sad
because this is someone that I I'm twenty five, I'm

(01:21:47):
almost four years sober. So when you kind of look
at someone and I can see a lot of myself
four years ago, and it's really hard because we were
just kids. And I think in a way, her friendship

(01:22:08):
saved me from going through a lot of things by myself.
And I'm I'm I feel sorry that I ever put
that responsibility on someone, but I think it might have
lessened maybe some of the things that I went through
because I had someone with me. And it's you should
you know. Again, I don't remember much, but I remember

(01:22:32):
I remember enough to know that it was really it
was very it was very dark, and she is completely
wrapped around my mom's thumb. But she's also very much so,
you know, there's there's a lot I've just I recently
looked at the dance Studio page because of a picture

(01:22:55):
that was brought to my attention that I also want
to talk about, and she is all around the young kids.
And it's very interesting because I'm like, did my mom
change her, you know kind of project? Is she now
the one that my mom is trying to put around

(01:23:16):
all the young kids to normalize his behavior? You know
what I mean? Yeah, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
He's sort of taken your place.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
We can we can say yeah, but again, like there's
there's not We were never friends. Like I think that's
important too, Like my friends were not my friends.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
You didn't choose your own friends.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
You had no say yeah. And my one of the
big things that we talked about in the first episode
was that suspected, you know, ritual abuse, that that happened
with one of the girls at the dance studio, not
that girl. The memory that I had my mom brought
someone home to me as a surprise sleepover. I don't
I never really had sleepovers. And she popped out of

(01:23:58):
a garment bag and it was this whole thing, and
my grandma was there and the next thing I remember,
she's naked in my mom's bed and I my puke
is all over the bed and we were drugged. I
suspect I don't know, I don't know what. I don't know.
I don't know I don't know, Like I, yeah, I
don't know, and I don't need to know. I know enough.

(01:24:20):
I know enough. I don't remember with my mom's next up,
what are you doing with my mom's student, with the
one that I was close to, Like, I don't know.
There's a lot that I just Yeah, it's not necessary.

(01:24:42):
I don't think it's necessary. That's okay, we don't have
to go there. Yeah, what about the It's not about
the studio, it's about my own experiences, you know, And like,
so maybe that's just I just don't I don't need something.
There's enough. I don't know. I know how far my
mom's reign of terror went and my grandma's.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
I you just know your own experience.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
I just know my own experiences and the experiences I
had with other people and what I suspect happened behind
closed doors. And you know, these were people that grew
up there. They've been there, you know, for so many
years since they were kids, and my mom successfully planted

(01:25:27):
a seat in their brains, in the parents' brains. I
think a lot of parents are terrified of her, and
a lot of parents are in on it. And that
is something that you know has been again like a
huge question mark because I've I've had a lot of
parents reach out to me who are very well aware
of my mom's behavior and would never let their kids

(01:25:48):
go to that studio. But then you have parents. The
people that my mom attracts are probably the ones that
are not They're in on it, they're not super aware,
they don't want to leave it happens. They just need
to drop their kids off for an extracurricular And unfortunately
my mom had a usue. Not anymore had before. You know,

(01:26:09):
Hope is the Bird a very very successful studio growing up,
they won everything, They were incredible performers. You know, they're
fucking terrified my mom. Just to give people an idea
of like my mom's psychological hold on kids. And I
was already terrified of my mom, So I don't really

(01:26:31):
know what went on at this studio that would cause
other kids to be so terrified of her. It's not
like it sticks out in my brain because I was
already roomed from a young age to be absolutely petrified
of her. So it's not like I had all these
experiences at the studio that were why I was scared
of her. I already was, but she would come into
the room. I remember specifically we had a rehearsal in

(01:26:53):
the downstairs room. There was one There'd be one teacher rehearsing,
and then you know, my mom would come in for
the final rehearsal. And my mom walked in and the
whole energy changed and kids would start crying like they were.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
So scarily at a dance studio.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
Kids would be crying, though, scared of her if you
messed up on stage. Especially my one friend that I
grew up, I remember she was particularly terrified of her,
which makes sense. You know, obviously they'd come off in
puke what like, absolutely petrified of messing up. These are

(01:27:36):
young kids stopping in a turn. I mean, yeah, this
is and this is the this my mom had. She's
one of the Me and my mom and my grandma
hate children like they hate them. My grandma hates kids. Wow.
And I think it's because of, you know that how

(01:27:58):
they grew up, and it's this like and they hate
them because they want them and they have these urges
with them. I think that's a huge part of it too.
But the kids were terrified at my mother, which also
makes sense why I have been battling an entire army
behind her, saying what a wonderful individual. She's the best

(01:28:20):
dance teacher ever. No, she's not. But that's what your
programmed to think because the alternative. And I went through
this in recovery, when I finally accepted my mom molested me.
It's like I looked at her for the first time
in my life, and it was horrifying to see the
image I painted of her as opposed to the reality

(01:28:43):
of who she actually is. And even you know, I
don't want to give her attention. But she did make
social media and was posting videos and vlogging about Kelly.
And I looked at that video and I was like,
my god, who is this? Like what is this? Who

(01:29:05):
is this person? They can't even hide anymore. Her voice
is different, she's she's it's sinister, it's but as a kid,
your brain protects you to look at someone in a
different light so that you can protect yourself. My dad
was the most handsome man in the world. I was

(01:29:26):
in love with him and I would talk him up
so much. And I remember he visited in California and
after I was in recovery, and my friend was like, yeah,
I remember you were saying he was coming and I
thought he was such a weird guy and that, but
that is exactly like you. He can just.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
You kind of put them on a pedestal because you
were brainwashed in a way.

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
To do yourself yourself like from the and that too. Yeah,
to keep them in this, they have to have this facade.
But you know, my mom dance teachers, not all of them,
but she has very very mean And now that I've
looked at her Facebook and her Instagram, I can see

(01:30:11):
who's still there, and uh yeah, these were the some
of the teachers I grew up with there and they're
still there after Hope is the Bird, after the allegations,
after the restraining order, they're right there teaching kids, up
arrassed at the dance studio, never miss a step, never
missed a rehearsal, you know. And it confirms my suspicions.

(01:30:34):
I always thought something was off with these people. There's
something really dark about them.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
They're very mean, and you're teaching children. You should not
be mean teaching children, especially something that's supposed to be
fun like dance, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
Like all of them are mean, okay, but the ones
that I there's two women in particular that are still there.

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
Okay, you remember being very mean, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
Vicious vicious. It's interesting too because despite being the owner's daughter,
I was never prioritized in dance classes or anything. It's
almost like some people like had it out for me.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
Interesting in some way.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
One of the teachers in particular, they used to pick
the good group, which is kind of fucked up. But
they do these dance classes. They teach you, you know,
you have jazz class, they teach you choreography, and then
at the end they picked five people who did it
the best and they bring them out to do a
small group. And she picked me once. I think in
all the times I ever dancer and stuff like that,
that's like maybe I just sucked. But it feels like

(01:31:45):
somebody had it out for me, Like I just I
remember just certain things. And one of the teachers made
a quip about me booking Mary Poppins when I was
a kid and saying, like, can you believe that Juliette,
you know, books Harry Poppins with the way that she
dances something along those lines, And it's just very like.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
And these are grown adults behaving this way towards a child.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Yeah, like hating on children. And you know, one of
my mom's most passionate keyboard warriors is her I guess
she's her tap teacher now, but she's the one that
I've spoken out about publicly about how she exploits her
children on social media. And I had someone reach out

(01:32:30):
to me and she was like, you know, I don't
really remember much about her besides her always being absolutely
blasted drunk at every dance competition with my mom and
to kind of segue into the competitions like that was
a very common thing.

Speaker 1 (01:32:42):
To drink at competitions around children.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
Alcohol was very normalized in my life. And I mean,
why do you think I turned out to be an alcoholic?
And I remember that was a thing like all the
teachers at dance competitions would get so drunk, and these
were they'd be in front of the kids, they with
some of the other parents, what you know, all kinds

(01:33:08):
of stuff like that, And I again like I didn't
even remember that because it was so normal. I just
was like, yeah, everybody gets drunk.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
Wow, I was.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
I would drink like everybody would drink. I just alcohol
was always in my life, Like I.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
Don't remember, and you were drinking as a child, right, Yeah, yeah,
I don't remember. I remember being introduced to beer at
a very young age, and like always if we were out,
like you know, having a sip at my mom's martini
and stuff. And even to this day, like my mom's Instagram,

(01:33:47):
she'll post about me and be like and redd or
whe red or white tonight. Like the alcohol is a
huge part of it. But they would at dance competitions
get drunk frequently. I don't I don't know if there.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
Was one that, like especially the big ones when you're
going to nationals and staying at a hotel and stuff.
I just I just remember that being a common thing.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
If I were a parent sending my child away on
a competition with her dance school and I found out
that the instructors were, oh I would be going what
be going off? The jersey would come out real quick.
That's absolutely unacceptable and completely inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
Yeah, but it was normalized in that Yeah. And was
it also like dressing rooms are completely inappropriate? You do it?

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
So what's that like in a in a dance recital
dressing room?

Speaker 2 (01:34:46):
What's the energy? Like it's a huge room, like just
one big space. Yeah, And I think it's a girls
room and a boys room from what I remember, I
don't know if they're all like that. And you go
in and you pick your spot, and you usually all
kind of have a spot with your studio unless it's
too busy, and some people put up privacy curtains and

(01:35:06):
most people don't, and you just get it's a free
for all, and you're taught from a very young age
you take your clothes off in front of anybody at
any time. Anybody can walk in. You don't even need
a kid. It's not like somebody's standing at the front
door being no one's guarding it. Oh you can wow
if you want to go look at a bunch of
naked children. There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
There's no regulations or rules in plays. It sounds like
in the dance world no wow.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
Really as a one Rol Whious message you were commented,
it was like we've come off stage for a quick change, yes,
for the next dance competition. We wouldn't even go to
the dressing room. We'd be in the wings, you know,
taking off all of our clothes in front of everybody.
That's what she said. And why is this being you know,
it reminds me kind of a broadway to that kind

(01:35:59):
of ideaange you gotta get no. Statistically, when you look
at like how many people abuse kids, and you're in
a room with you know, two hundred adults, it's gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:36:11):
Be at least one abuser in there.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
Come on, at least one.

Speaker 1 (01:36:16):
Wow, there's really no protection. It sounds like it's a
child dancers these you know, it's one thing for adults.
But I agree there should be regulations in place, protection
for everybody, but especially children. Privacy, privacy, put up small
put dressing rooms in simple solution, individual dressing rooms, and

(01:36:39):
just everyone takes turns.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
Wow, it's so they can't because there's so many of them.

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
They can easily make changes. It can't be that difficult.
It can't be that hard. Put a little money into it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
I know. It's just I this is just what I
grew up in.

Speaker 1 (01:36:55):
Like, but this has been normalized correct in the industry,
Like this is the standard.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
This is normal things that I probably there's so many
other things that probably are so major that I don't
even recall because they were so normal, Like I don't remember.
I just I don't remember, Like this was just drinking
was normal, and I just remember always being with my

(01:37:22):
mom at these dance these dance competitions, and I'd walk
around like her. Mini mean, I was so I remember,
I reached an age I was so judgmental of the girls.
And but that's because my mom was turning me into
her and to yeah, to go off of the like

(01:37:43):
pedophilia aspect of it. You know. My mom would choreograph dances,
and I remember there was a dance called Centerfold that
she talked about that she did with the young kids.
That's like about a playboy and a centerfold, And that
was one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:38:00):
Oh wow, for children to dance to.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
And then she had another one, and this is the
one that I remember. It was called Yummy, and it
was I'm feeling yummy head to toe, you see me?
And these were again they might have I think I
was probably around fourteen at the time, so I'm guessing
my friend would have been around eleven or twelve dancing
to that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:22):
You know, who comes to mind, I know, it's separate.
It's pageants, John Benet Ramsay and dressing these kids up
so they look like they're adults.

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
Yeah, why are we dressing children ups look like they're
thirty years old?

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
And what's with all the hair and makeup?

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
It's unnecessary. Whole other story is how exploitative, exploitative whatever
that word is, these performances are. Yeah, and like throughout
the years, I feel like it's a competition of not
who can dance the best, but who can wear the
least amount of clothing? Yeah, and who can look the
most promiscuous at the youngest of an age. Who's judging

(01:39:01):
these competitions? Like who's looking at these kids and making
them win because they look like thirty year old? You know,
who's in is there?

Speaker 1 (01:39:09):
Like I don't know what to call it, like a
union or like an organization that oversees all these dance competitions.
Who's in charge? Like who is running the dance world?

Speaker 2 (01:39:20):
Do you know what I mean? I know SAG for acting,
I don't know for dance. Yeah, I'm very curious because
I'm sure it's just overrun by.

Speaker 1 (01:39:29):
We'll say, bad people, bad people.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
It's gotta be, because there's no way that. I mean.
I'm like, I'm twenty five, I wasn't even that involved
in it, And the amount of shit I saw, I'm like,
who didn't raise who didn't raise a red fly? Like
what I'm not even like I'm at dance competitions every
week of my life. I didn't do it that much.
I started working very young, and then I moved to California,

(01:39:53):
and like.

Speaker 1 (01:39:54):
Some kids do this almost every weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Rights and parents just don't do anything. And then I
have some do my experience, I come forward with my
you know, with my abuse, and like they just keep
doing the same shit, and they keep putting them in
the same position. And I talked about even the red

(01:40:18):
flags you know that I with my mom's dance studio
that were very apparent to me. You know. One was
just I mean, there are certain things that I just
don't know if they're normal, But judging by my mom's behavior,
even if they are normal, it's still weird. Like why
are you having a rehearsal in an empty studio? No

(01:40:43):
one else is there with the door closed? Why like
keep it open? My mom. One of the major things
that I've talked about was the clouded windows and how
she'd cloud out the viewing windows to all the rehearsal rooms,
and the one clouded in the front office was for

(01:41:05):
like the freaking terrific twosies, and it was for the
little kids classes and they clouded out and she'd always
say it's because she doesn't want anyone to steal choreography
from a two year old.

Speaker 3 (01:41:15):
What.

Speaker 2 (01:41:17):
I learned this from a neighboring studio who told me,
don't share this, but I'm sorry, this is more important.
I'm going to share it. And I doubt anyone's gonna
know who you are. My mom we had like a
temporary well my mom would know who they are, so
who cares? Who side are you on? Like you know,
but my mom we went to this neighboring studio temporarily,

(01:41:40):
I think it was in between her kind of like
studio transition or whatever, and she had a studio they
gave her with a window in it, and without permission,
she just clouded it out and she was only there temporarily.
So even a very amount of time she was there,
she wouldn't even allow visibility into the one room that

(01:42:01):
she was rehearsing in. And she used the excuse.

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
What she's why she said she was doing that was
so nobody would be who's who's spying? Who's spying on
a child? Sand studio to steal steal choreography? Is that
a thing?

Speaker 2 (01:42:15):
One thing like you know when when she hits the
fan on all this, and like I can actually do
something about it. That's the one thing I'm going to
try to get out law is clouded windows and dance studio. Yeah,
the thing because all the other studios were. I even
think that the now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like,

(01:42:35):
was the door. I remember everything was like clouded out.
Like even the door of the downstairs room that had
a little window on it was clouded out. It was
just weird. But I could be wrong, but no, I
kind of I don't think you could see through the

(01:42:57):
I don't think you could see through it. Why I'm
thinking that, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
We should put the call out there for anyone who
listens or watches this podcast episode, if they are in
the dance community at another studio, please comment and let
us know if your dance studio does that. Let's see
how normal this is right around the country.

Speaker 2 (01:43:16):
Because my mom had to do it at the different studio,
it's not like they already had it. Yeah yeah, oh,
but that was something major.

Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
And also you remember that for a reason that's sticking
with you for a reason.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
I feel, yeah, it's major. You're blocking visibility and often
The thing too about like child predators that I've learned
is that they don't even even if they're not abusing,
they don't there's like a shame attached to being seen
with children like because of because they have Because what
if you're a parent and you're like, I don't like

(01:43:54):
how that person's looking at my kid, even if they're
not doing something, I'm like, why are they staring at
them like that? Like she can't hide her her desire,
which is very what's very interesting now is that my
mom is very happy to post with children on her
social media page. Now, it was never like that, but

(01:44:14):
I've shown you. I sent you some of those pictures
with her like arm around their neck, and it's and
it's the it's actually some of the pictures are with
the little girl who's mom is the one that I
talked about that exploits her on social media. Okay, that's right,
and she's she's right in there with my mom and

(01:44:36):
nobody cares. And I worked with a wonky therapist a
couple of years ago, and nothing I ever said has
any credibility. Well, let's keep putting our you know, four
or five six year old kid in harm's way. I
can't you know what, why would I not suspect that
the same shit's going on at home that happened in

(01:44:56):
my house? You know what I mean? At this point,
like you are literally just digging your own grave with
the way that you treat your children. Like, go see
who supports my mom in this place and the and
the study, the teachers that have stuck with her for years.
Go see who not to put your kids around, because obviously,

(01:45:17):
even if there's a credible source coming forward talking about
child abuse, they're not going to take it seriously. It's
it's it's more about the idea of why. I just why,
Like rationally, I'm just why? What are you protecting? Like
what you're protecting a narrative? You're protecting something and you know,
in an in a business that is four children, shouldn't

(01:45:39):
we all have children's best interests in mind? And if
there is someone that's potentially a threat to a child,
why would we stand with the perpetrator and not the kid?
You know? Like that just that and not the victim?
Like I I I And that's what I mean. But
that's why so many of these studios are so fucked up,
is because they're not for the children. They're not for

(01:46:02):
the children's best interest. They're not for protecting kids. They're
for exploiting them. They're for power over children to yell
at them and scream at them and make them cry
because they can, because we've normalized that it's okay for
a good teacher to scream at a kid until it cries,

(01:46:26):
because that's making them tough, and that's going to make
them win. No, it's not. It's going to traumatize them,
you know. But I just never understood, and it's because
of the environment I grew up in that this this
is not this shouldn't I hope this isn't normal. I don't.

(01:46:46):
I don't want it to be normal, But like I
have never this is what I grew up in. So
I don't even know what a what a happy, positive
dand studio looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:46:56):
You don't know what a normal quote unquote normal dance
studio is.

Speaker 2 (01:46:59):
That what it even looks like?

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
And I'm sure they exist. I'm gonna say there are
some out there, absolutely, but there's also a lot of
corrupted ones.

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
And I just why can't we be competitive and successful.

Speaker 1 (01:47:11):
In win and be kind and show love and.

Speaker 2 (01:47:16):
Mutual respect. I just can't. What makes me the most
triggered is the children involved, of course. So that's what
makes me the most angry is that I'm actively seeing,
you know, people like that dance teacher that has messaged

(01:47:38):
all my friends about me, never me, directly talks bad
about me to everyone. I'm seeing this person, this innocent child,
being put into situations they have no they don't have
a choice, like you are. You are and whatever you
know is going behind going on behind closed doors in
your own household. I don't know, but you're actively My

(01:48:03):
mom is dark. You can see it from any any
you know, from a video. So that's the part that
bothers me, is that there are there are children potentially
being hurt because of a parent's negligence. And if that
is the narrative that she paints of me, and you

(01:48:29):
have children of your own, it's just it's just mind
blowing to me. It's just mind blowing to me.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
I think it's so important you're sharing this truth and
not letting we'll say them stop you, not letting that
fear stop you that they've been instilling, because this message
needs to get out there to more people, especially the parents,
and and not just for this dance studio, but going

(01:49:00):
to say in the whole.

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
Community, somebody tried, like I tried, like I tried to help,
you know, And I think that's important, especially and you're
not just trying, you are helping you get But I
think it's important too, because you know, if this, if
if somebody grows up and you know, comes to terms

(01:49:22):
with it, if something is still happening, if this behavior
is still being perpetuated, at least I know someone tried
to help them. And that's I care about kids. That's
why I do what I do. It's not for my
own egocentric, self fulfilling prophecy. You're about children, and I
care about the next generation. When I'm talking about this stuff,

(01:49:44):
it's not easy for me. It's not that I necessary.
I don't enjoy it or dislike it. It's just like, sure,
I'll talk about all the shit that I went through
because potentially and hopefully it can help the next person
and spark real change within this community. Because I don't
want my future kids. I don't want to be I

(01:50:05):
don't want these conversations to not be held at places
like this.

Speaker 1 (01:50:09):
By people not talking about it. It's perpetuating it, it's
enabling it to continue. It's important we talk about it
openly and honestly to put a stop to it once
and for all.

Speaker 2 (01:50:22):
Hush mentality the church and the pastors and priests who
beleive giant, huge hush hush. And we're not even educating.
I mean some people are, but like children to be
to begin with that, like they need to look at
we're normalizing sex, we're perfecting perpetrators, we're you know, putting

(01:50:45):
kids in danger. And it's just like, you know, there's
just so much. There's so much that just raises such
a red flag for me that I just find to
be so inappropriate and wrong. And to kind of segue
into my kind of what we talked about last time,
there was this guy. There's this guy that comes to
my mom's dance studio. I don't know if he still does.

(01:51:08):
He comes in, he dresses up like a Russian woman.
He puts on this whole persona. He puts on this
creepy ass makeup. It's not drag makeup. It's like I
showed you that picture. It's very sinister and scary. I
wouldn't look at it as a kid and be like, oh,
he looks like fun, like it's scary. He has this
very intense makeup he wears, and he comes in and

(01:51:32):
he teaches ballet to the children. I've always thought this
was very weird, even when I was young, and I
remember him very vaguely. He puts on this accent, he
talks in this you know, so he taught you in
this concept you. I don't know if he taught I
remember him, okay, got it. I don't know. I don't
remember if he taught me or not. Okay, but I

(01:51:54):
remember him so, like whether I was there that day
or he taught me but got it of mine. I'm
looking through because I had someone send me those pictures
and they were like, hey, what is this, Like this
is creepy. There's a photo of him. There's a young
boy and he has like his arm wrapped around him

(01:52:14):
and and is just stretching him like completely to the side.
And my mom took a photo of it. My mom's
walking around taking photos of this, and that to me
is that's an inappropriate, unnecessary conduct with a kid. You're
you're intruding on their boundaries for the sake of a photo.

(01:52:34):
You're a grown man. Wrapping yourself around a little boy
seeing how flexible he can go. That's an unnecessary touch
for a dance studio. I've never you know, the healthy
dance studios. I don't see them stretching the kids in photos.
I don't see them seeing how far they can bend

(01:52:55):
them and being wrapped up in them and stuff like that.
You know. I see a teacher taking a photo with
a with a student and smiling, but I don't see them,
you know, wrapping their arms around them and doing all
this a young you know, a young kid. There was
another photo of him. There was a kid, I think
she was in like second position, and he was sitting

(01:53:16):
on the ground and he had his arms out. I
don't remember if he was touching her hips or not,
but his face is like essentially in her bottom and
he's making this face and you could tell he's staring
right at her bottom. It's on Instagram, very bizarre, and
it's stuff like that that I look at and I'm like, God,

(01:53:39):
doesn't anybody think this is a little weird? You know, like,
don't we just think that this is a little inappropriate.

Speaker 1 (01:53:48):
For a grown adult to be we'll say, touching children
in that manner.

Speaker 2 (01:53:53):
The entire concept is just bizarre. Yeah, and it was
on Halloween, which is he like, it's just the entire
concept is off. Yeah, that there's a grown man dressing
up as a woman coming in teaching the kids in
this scary it's not supposed to be scary. It looks

(01:54:13):
scary to me, dark makeup in a dress, coming around,
and you're you're taking all these pictures of him in
what I perceive as very inappropriate positions with the students.
That one picture with that little boy is the one
that really suck out to me because that is just why,

(01:54:35):
why why and why is my mom the one walking
around with the camera taking the photos?

Speaker 3 (01:54:42):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:54:44):
And you know that's a whole topic that I don't
want to go down today. But you know, that's that's
just an it's an unhealthy we're teaching children something very
unhealthy about boundaries about who you allow to touch your body.
Dance is not a free for all. It should not
be a free for all. There should be respectful touching

(01:55:04):
and adjustments if necessary, but it shouldn't be like that
where any grab you at any time and stretch you
any way that you want. And I remember that was
something too, especially when girls would be whoa, ah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:55:20):
I do that just trigger a memory.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
I can see it. Oh, one of the teachers that's
still at my mom's dance studio. Holy hell, we'd be
laying on our back in a straddle, right and she'd
come around and put her hands, you know, kind of
facing us and press our legs down. But just the

(01:55:45):
idea position of that is Wow, there's waits for stuff
like that. We don't need people, is that okay?

Speaker 1 (01:55:54):
So again I don't know much about dance and and
and you know how it's taught. That's not normal. We're
going to say for the teacher to come around and
like move your body for you. I don't think it
should be even if yes, you would ask for permission, correct,
I would assume you should ask for pion. Can I

(01:56:14):
help adjust you?

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
But just to come up and further strang very vulnerable
position for someone to be in absolutely literally displayed wide open. Yeah,
and you have someone essentially putting their face above your
crotch and pressing down to get you to be more flexible.
I don't care if you look at it like there
are things that we can do. There's actual equipment.

Speaker 3 (01:56:41):
Use.

Speaker 2 (01:56:41):
You could put angles to bring your legs down so
that you don't have someone, yeah, putting you know, themselves
in that vulnerable. But I don't know, And maybe it's
just because I'm over the top about things. I don't
I wouldn't be comfortable with someone doing that to my kids.
We don't know, I think, But that's I think that

(01:57:02):
that's something that that's the thing when you have there's
a lot of things that are normalized in sport and
athleticism and stuff like that that can be crossing a
line a lot of the times, especially, But the thing
is is that it's because it starts so young, and

(01:57:23):
we're not teaching consent. We're just teaching that this is
the way that things are. And then yes, you can
have a couple good apples, then you get one bad
apple that walks.

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
In that ruins it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
Yeah, you're already, you know, conditioned to believe that this
behavior is normal, so it's really easy for them to
go ahead and take advantage of you. So I think
that that's kind of that weird gray area around dance
where yes, teachers should be allowed to make adjustments. Same
thing with Larry Nasser, doctor should be allowed to make adjustments,

(01:57:58):
but there's you know, there's gotta be there's just too
much darkness within that community that I would ever feel
comfortable putting my kid in that position to anybody. And
then you also have guest teachers coming in, perfect segue.

(01:58:21):
One of the guest teachers that we had coming in
is in jail for twenty years. We're child molestation. Wow,
just don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:58:29):
I don't know who's around your kid in these scenarios.

Speaker 2 (01:58:31):
You don't know. This is someone. His name is Travis
Saint Denny. He was, it was not. It was a
neighboring dancer. Do they travel to see us? I don't
know if they were in New York state, Pennsylvania one
of those close enough. I was familiar with them. I
don't remember ever having any issues with the owners. I
don't remember them ever reaching out to me. Maybe they did,

(01:58:53):
I don't know. I'm right now. My opinion on them
is neutral because I haven't been but I haven't. I
don't remember any type of interaction positive or negative. Okay.
And they had a dance teacher. I don't know if
he grew up at that studio. I know he taught
there for a while because when the victims came forward

(01:59:14):
and they did their victim statements in court. They knew
him for you know, seven ten plus years, so he
was someone that my mom. He'd come into my mom's
studio and teach, and that just goes to show, you know,
you really don't know who's walking into these rooms. You

(01:59:34):
just don't. And this was a very successful studio, very
successful dancers, modern you know that type of thing, and
he I think I don't know how many years ago
it was. I think it was in twenty eighteen, twenty
nineteen when he was arrested. I was unfamiliar with how

(02:00:02):
deep it went, like, I didn't know how many boys
were affected by it. I believe he only molessed boys. Okay,
as of how my mom presented it to me, and
she basically said, he he sent one, you know, dick
pick to somebody and he thought they were in a
relationship and he sent it. You know, the kid sent
it to his mom, and now he's in jail, and
it's so unfair. He never did anything wrong. And my

(02:00:25):
mom became pen pals with him, wow, told him all
about my life and her life and told him when
he's out of jail, Juliette's going to be rich and
famous and she's going to have a farm and you
can work on it because you're a sex you know,
he's going to be a sex offender and he can't
work everywhere.

Speaker 1 (02:00:41):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (02:00:42):
And this was like she would write to him all
the time, and she it was like her way of
trying to justify her own behavior through him. I had
no idea how many boys he abused until and that's
all we that's only the people we know.

Speaker 1 (02:01:00):
Again, a lot of people don't speak out, so there
could be a lot more.

Speaker 2 (02:01:04):
Absolutely, Yeah. And there was a there's another a dancer
at my mom's who grew up at my mom's studio.
I don't know if any of this was made public.
And I found out found this out through a dance
organization that reached out to me. Very he's a very
prominent name, and he had allegations come out against him
when he was older, after he had graduated my mom's

(02:01:26):
dance studio. Wow, he's still there, Okay, But I don't
think anything ever went forward with that. But I they
did talk to me and I was like with him,
and they're like, yep, with him. There's allegations, you know
out right now, And this was somebody who you know,
grew up there and I don't want to get into
the conversation of sexuality today. I'm not quite emotionally prepared

(02:01:49):
to handle that. That's okay. One of the major red flags,
you know, of sexual abuse is when people grow up
to struggle with their identity and their sexuality. And you know,
this was somebody who had that and but had the
opposite of it, where it was almost where he was
almost averse to it. So to hear that there were

(02:02:13):
sexual allegations is a very weird thing because that was
something that was like not ever, you know, something that
was like normal for him. But that goes to show

(02:02:34):
I've seen so many of my peers grow up to
go off the deep end, and I think that's all
the confirmation I need that there's a lot more going on.
And in this I think something else too that's important

(02:02:54):
to know is that I would disassociate during fittings as
I got older, like fort wow. So I think that
I think that's something that was very telling and and
it leads me to believe that there was there was
a lot more that went on that I'm unable to comprehend.

(02:03:15):
But I don't need to because what I know is enough.
I'll pick them all out of a lineup and tell
everybody who was who was in there, you know, and
it's enough, like I know who was in there, I
know who did it. And especially when you look at
the connections that some of my mom's had. Mom has
and the and the dancers, and one of her one

(02:03:36):
of her teacher's husbands, I had someone reach out to
me about him and say how inappropriate he made them
feel and stuff like that. So there's there's obviously an
attraction to my mom's studio by these people. Who are
you know, attracted to the same thing. I'm not saying
everyone is, of course, not even you know, in my experience,

(02:04:01):
one of the male teachers in particular, who was gay,
was incredibly last vicious, very sexual, and would make jokes
like that in front of me to my mother. And
he was the one that when we talked about it,
I was standing there and he'd always be rubbing my
mom and coming up and he'd always be doing that

(02:04:24):
with the with the girls too. And and you know,
there's gay or not gay.

Speaker 1 (02:04:30):
You don't go touching children inappropriately doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (02:04:34):
Eking as a grown woman, gay or not gay exactly.
Don't be rubbing up on me like it's just because
you're not.

Speaker 1 (02:04:41):
That's crossing a boundary, a huge boundary, still.

Speaker 2 (02:04:44):
Crossing a huge boundary. But he'd always be making these
he'd always be making these jokes. He was also one
of the ones that would drink, you know, with the
competitions and stuff. Remember I was standing there. I just
remember this because it made me so uncomfortable because it
triggered trauma for me because I knew what he was
talking about, but my brain wouldn't let me. And he
said to my mom, do my mom not to me?

(02:05:06):
But I was standing there. He was like, we're gonna
I was leaving in my I think he was saying.
He said to my mom like, we'll come back and
we're going to make love. Like come back and we'll
make love. To my mom like, well wow, and I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:05:19):
That was at a children's competition, correct, children are around
dance studio.

Speaker 2 (02:05:24):
Oh at the dance studio. Oh wow? Oh I this
was at the actual dance studio. This but again, and
I remember I felt so uncomfortable and my mom was like,
oh she doesn't know what that means. She doesn't know
what that means. And that was how my life was.
It was just I would just be there and be
essentially like a punching bag, and I'd stand there and

(02:05:47):
absorb all this wax shit and kind of make sense
of it. And I think that's why my brain.

Speaker 1 (02:05:53):
And no child should have to go through that. No
child should have to go through that.

Speaker 2 (02:05:59):
And I guess that's it's me is that from an
outside perspective, if you grew up in Montana and weren't
like now, if you weren't around people like that, you
would probably be like, what in the hell. And that's
how people act here. When I tell them parts about
my life, they're like, what the hell you know? But
it's so normalized, especially within these communities. It is anyone

(02:06:23):
can perpetrate, right A man, a woman does matter, gay woman.
Just because he's gay doesn't mean that he's not a
threat to both boy little boys and little girls. And
I think that that's something you know, with a female teacher,
she could be beautiful, she could be in her twenties,

(02:06:43):
she can still abuse kids.

Speaker 1 (02:06:46):
Like there's plenty of stories that come out about young
there's no one perusing underage boys.

Speaker 2 (02:06:53):
Absolutely, if there's no one person or one way to
look at it. And I think there's there's wonderful teachers,
and there's there's people who do have great boundaries with kids.
And it's just specifically the ones that I grew up with,
not all of them, you know, but I don't. I

(02:07:14):
don't remember a lot of them because I also was
taken out of dance at a very young age, so
I kind of only danced before the age of eight.
But there's a lot of them that are, you know,
still there to this day that it's it's I don't
know why they want to be around kids. If you're

(02:07:35):
going to be mean to I know, what's the point
like to win you? But it is it's a power thing.
And I do understand it because my mom was grooming
me to be like her and I do get it.
And it was that power and it's it's that power
that I never had as a kid. So you know,
I could spin it on his head and I can

(02:07:56):
become the abuser and I can spin them and I
can make them do what I want them to do
and they're gonna win. But then I almost become this
idol to them because I am the one who who
coached them to get this trophy, and and I'm the
teacher that you know, what's what's a dancer without a teacher?
Like it's amazing, but you need somebody to take you

(02:08:18):
under their wing and bring you to competitions and educate you.
And and my mom has so many people wrapped around
her thumb, even in dance competitions and judges that it's
you know, and and there's there's so much convoluted relationships

(02:08:39):
that children and teenagers too have with you know, their coaches,
and at that point where it's like almost legal, but
it's not. Like one of my mom's students, I think,
I don't know if it was illegal when he got
into it, but he wound up being with a much
older man at a different dance studio and it turned

(02:08:59):
out it's not no. Yeah, And there was another guy
and you know, at a a studio that we'd only
see it competitions, but he left his wife for one
of his students. And there's this whole there's so much
of this going on, and you know, we might only

(02:09:24):
just see it when they turn eighteen, but what's going
on before they turn eighteen.

Speaker 1 (02:09:29):
Usually there's something happening while they're underage.

Speaker 2 (02:09:32):
A lot of these kids too, that's very sad that
are so talented and so passionate about art and so
passionate about dance often times come from the most traumatic
homes because that's their escape. When you take their escape
and you turn it into another place of abuse, they
have nowhere to go. But it's better than what they

(02:09:54):
get at home. So like the less for two evils.
But that's out the way this stuff should go. I
don't have feelings about horseback riding, right, like I don't
have fears about horseback riding. I don't remember being fitted, you.

Speaker 1 (02:10:08):
Know, and nothing traumatic happened to you. Oh, horseback my thing,
Like it was my stuff, that was your safe space. Yeah, okay,
it's unfortunate it was safe for you. It actually was safe.

Speaker 2 (02:10:22):
Yeah it was to you know, as as safe as
anything could be with my life. But with dance, I
I would I would have the worst anxiety even going
to dance classes. As I got older. My mom still
wanted to keep me in dance in California, and I

(02:10:43):
just hated it, Like I was so stiff, and yeah,
I I was so anxious because my I was scared
because you associate dance with with fear and your body locks.
How can you be a successful dancer when you're actively
harbor all of the sexual abuse and being bied. You can't.
You can't. Yeah, And I saw that and so many

(02:11:05):
of my mom's dancers, and she'd always say, they were
so stiff and just loosen up and they're terrified. It
can't like they're scared. I just had so many you know,
I've had a couple of conversations with girls that I
grew up with where I know, I know, this isn't
just me, And unfortunately, there were some of these, you know,

(02:11:28):
girls that were brought to my house and you know,
handpicked to come to my house, and there were some
that it you know, shared things about me with with
my dad and it's just my my The studio is
not it was not for dance. It was for so
many other things. And there were so many other ulterior

(02:11:54):
motives that my mom and my grandmother had behind it.
And I don't remember my grandma being you know, I
remember my grandma was there. She'd be involved in the fittings, but.

Speaker 1 (02:12:04):
I don't know what else she was, like involved in
we can call it in a way an alleged front.

Speaker 2 (02:12:10):
Probably like that makes sense. And there was a so
there was a family that was really connected to my
mom's studio, one of my mom's top top teachers, and
they went they broke off and went somewhere else, and
I remember when that happened. My mom just lost her mind.

(02:12:31):
And it really it really makes you wonder because they
grew up there and they had been there a long time,
and you wonder to the extent of what people knew,
and it was this very abrupt thing they just went
out on like a it was a my mom was gobsmacked.
It was a shock.

Speaker 1 (02:12:50):
Well, you just wonder a lot of people again, they
keep quiet, they keep silent people, and they know what
they experienced.

Speaker 2 (02:12:59):
I had one of those moms reach out to me
and say they were so sorry for what happened to me.
But it always was very weird to me because I'm like, well,
I don't know if this was also like a saint
like organization that left. So it's it's so when you're
that involved with my mom and my grandma, it does
definitely it's very confusing. And you know, the woman who

(02:13:24):
used to bathe her daughter into her teenagers was one
of the ones that went and like, there's just so
this is why this episode stresses me out because there's
so many people involved. Like, there's so many people involved.

Speaker 1 (02:13:38):
I think it's important that you're simply just sharing your
first hand experience, and then if there are other people
who were victims of abuse, maybe it will encourage them
to go to the authorities or to start speaking out.

Speaker 2 (02:13:55):
I think that's I think that's the next step in
all of this is is more voices being added to this. Chers.
I only know what I know, and I suspect what
I suspect, and I never I never want to accuse
anyone of anything that they and some people maybe just

(02:14:15):
didn't know.

Speaker 1 (02:14:17):
Some people honestly could be completely innocent and have no idea. Absolutely,
I'm sure there's many of them.

Speaker 2 (02:14:23):
Now it's just a little different because I've spoken out
about it. So now it's a little different because it's
been out there, it's been talked about.

Speaker 1 (02:14:32):
I feel like the initial podcast you did on that
a couple of years ago is priming, priming, I will say,
people to understand and now this is just gonna whoop,
Like you said, Chip the Iceberg over.

Speaker 2 (02:14:47):
And I'm sure the narrative will still be the same
for a lot of people. And they're they're just going
to write this off, and you know what, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (02:14:54):
That's their choice, that's their free will choice. But I
think you're you're going to open up people's eyes. You're
going to open up people's eyes.

Speaker 2 (02:15:01):
You are. I just feel like, at this point in
my life, the amount of work I've done on myself,
how far I've come, it's really hard to ignore this.
It's really gonna, it's really gonna. It's really hard to
ignore this and the severity of this. It's really hard
to ignore me and my lack of insanity. Like it's

(02:15:26):
kind of at that point now where Hope is the bird. Okay,
I'll give some people grace. It was up and gone
in the matter of two weeks. I've missed it, right,
something people could have missed it, or they could have
been like, maybe you know, she she I don't know.
Maybe she did have like an episode, but that's not

(02:15:47):
even I that even doesn't make sense. Because when I
took everything down, I had a public video out that said,
due to the ongoing investigation, I need to take everything down.
So I'm really trying to give these people some excuses.
But you know, there's not much too. There's not much there.

(02:16:11):
I mean, it's it's it's only going to get bigger too.
And I think that besides my studio, there's there's.

Speaker 1 (02:16:22):
Gonna say, there's so many other studios out there where
we know this is I mean, you kind of confirmed
it with that one man who was arrested and the
allegations against the other man. We know this is going
on in other studios, in various.

Speaker 2 (02:16:38):
Organizations in the dance world right those studios, thousands.

Speaker 1 (02:16:43):
Any place where there's a large group of children, any
type of organization where there's children whose parents are dropping
them off to do the activity, they're not there, there's
no supervision.

Speaker 2 (02:16:55):
There's the parents aren't there.

Speaker 1 (02:16:57):
And and we should live in a world where we
can yes to drop our kid off to go play
a school and trust that they're safe. But sadly that's
not the reality that we're in right now. You have
to be on high guard, high alert, and many people
unfortunately aren't tapped into their intuition, so they really don't

(02:17:18):
see or suspect something when it's off, as opposed to
someone who is quite open intuitively and can kind of
read the room and read the energy. But we are
shifting that narrative with people like yourself who are speaking out,
survivors like yourself, who are ready to tell their stories
and get the truth out there, and it's going to
become harder and harder for the collective to ignore this.
They can't ignore this much longer.

Speaker 2 (02:17:41):
You can, I mean, not for the response I've received, no, no,
And you know what, like.

Speaker 1 (02:17:46):
We said in that very first TikTok video, what did
I say? I said, I don't believe in trigger warnings.
I got a little little bit of that, but I
still I don't believe in trigger warnings.

Speaker 2 (02:17:57):
If you know what you're clicking on, the title was
right there. I understand with you know, people who have
experienced trauma survivors, they don't want to you know, certain things.

Speaker 1 (02:18:07):
That I understand absolutely.

Speaker 2 (02:18:09):
Yes, you know what you're clicking on? I think it's
you do you do?

Speaker 1 (02:18:14):
The title was right there. You couldn't mess It's right,
you know, if you if you're.

Speaker 2 (02:18:21):
Warned about it already, that's one thing. But I can
understand where people are coming from because back, you know,
I couldn't hear the word rape when I was younger,
like it was. Yeah, But I think that that's also
I think it just we'll say, for the.

Speaker 1 (02:18:39):
Average person, they don't need a trigger warning. For the
average person who's ever been through will say abuse to
that level, they need to hear it, and a lot
of them don't want to hear it. They just want
to pretend like this world's a beautiful place.

Speaker 2 (02:18:52):
It's also how social media flags videos and stuff, and
it's like, you can't talk. Why can't we talk about this,
like we shynot about this. It's very it's very important.
And you know the fact that videos get taken down
that are talking about child molestation and child rape three.

Speaker 1 (02:19:09):
Times I tried to post that one clip and they
keep flagging it.

Speaker 2 (02:19:13):
It's showing that they want this stuff for whatever reason.
But I think that that that's kind of the bulk
of of you know, I I didn't want to make
this episode super long. I think that this is a
solid amount of information. It's I think to the point
it's strictly about my experiences and you know, out of

(02:19:36):
the ground and in the grand scheme of things, it
was a very small portion of my life, but it
was it's I think it affects a lot more people
than I even know. Yes, and it's it's not only that.
I mean, you know, maybe this is like a common practice.
Maybe these fittings are something that other studios have done,
and it'll it'll help someone recover and understand that the

(02:19:59):
weird feeling, the weird way that they fell after they
went into these fittings, Like they're not alone in that
this might be. This might be a common way that
these features. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:20:10):
Absolutely, And I think it's important that you're speaking out
about this because it could be way too common. Then
we realize and I think, I hope it's I hope
it's not, but it very well could be.

Speaker 2 (02:20:21):
I hope it's not too But I'm I'm I'm not.
I'm not oblivious enough to think that this begins and
ends with me. And I also know it doesn't because
I know, you know, my friends were involved. And yeah,
I've I I don't know what this is going to do.

Speaker 1 (02:20:37):
It's gonna help spark change, That's what this is gonna do.
You're gonna help spark change.

Speaker 2 (02:20:42):
It needs to stop. I keep saying this in every video.
This ship needs to stop. We need to stop protecting
perpetrators and and stop putting children in danger. That all
we're doing is protecting the abusers with with the you know,
we're not protecting the kids. And there should be nothing
wrong with me having a conversation like this and talking

(02:21:04):
about all the little suspicions I had nothing because nine
times ten times.

Speaker 1 (02:21:10):
Actually, if something is is off, you're gonna be suspicious.

Speaker 2 (02:21:15):
Why is it that if you are if you suspect
child abuse, you report it. It's because ten times out
of ten it is such a thing, it's happening. It's
the same thing with the family members of some of
the girls I grew up with who I had very
weird memories with and had bizarre behaviors. If you suspect it,

(02:21:35):
it's happening. Because I suspect that with my friend's normal
ass dad who's out mowing the lawn, who feels like
he doesn't even stick out in my mind. But the
guy you know that that I have a weird memory
with when he was shirtless, something probably happen. And there

(02:22:00):
it's just you don't stuff like that if you're if
it's not a little suspicious or off.

Speaker 1 (02:22:07):
Or weird exactly, And I as your intuition.

Speaker 2 (02:22:12):
You're doubting themselves. They need to stop doubting themselves. There's
nothing wrong with a few reporting child abuse. If you
suspect something, if anything, you're you're just you're allowing the
the the idea of it to become reality which you

(02:22:33):
suspect it, something's probably wrong. Not that you know CPS
is going to do jack shit. That's a whole other
I know.

Speaker 1 (02:22:41):
I know it's like, well, you try to report it
and then nothing gets done about it.

Speaker 2 (02:22:45):
But at the very least you're trying, especially in situations
like this, if you bring your kid to a daycare,
bring your kid to a dance studio. Stuff is a
little off here you don't but I'm probably no, take
them out, go somewhere else you don't have that. I
had people reach out to me. I had one person
in particular reach out to me and say that their
daughter or yeah, daughter was sent home as a I

(02:23:09):
think she was under the age of seven, I think six,
with her leotard ripped. Actually maybe even younger. I have
to find that her leotard was ripped from her crotch
to her bone. Oh my god, her home. What never
mentioned anything at my mom's dance studio. Oh my god,
you know it's stuff like that. That's just like, guys,

(02:23:30):
this has been obvious for years and years and years now,
that's something is up, not to man, I didn't even
talk about this psychological and emotional abuse and the eating
disorders and the fat shaming and the you know, so
and so didn't start winning until she started puking her
lunch up.

Speaker 1 (02:23:49):
And abuse in so many levels. This is psychological abuse,
mental abuse as.

Speaker 2 (02:23:54):
Well be mentioned. It's just like this all goes together.

Speaker 1 (02:23:57):
I think it's important to at least just make a
mention because that's very real in all children's activities, especially
sports and competitive sports and competitive dance.

Speaker 2 (02:24:08):
Making fun of the cat fat kids, calling the ones
with you know, with autism or down syndrome, retards and
oh look they let the retarded kid on stingage and
how nice is that? And I mean, this was all
this was so normalized. And this was my mom, this
was her teachers. They'd get drunk and at competitions and

(02:24:28):
we'd sit and make fun of the kids dancing and
make one of the fat ones and make you know,
it's just what they did there. But why are they
They're a bunch of monsters. Why are they around kids?
Who the hell does that? I have never this was
so funny to me. So this was normalized when I
was a kid. I'm twenty five now. I have never
looked at a kid and been like, God, what a
fat fuck? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (02:24:50):
Never, Oh my god, I never.

Speaker 2 (02:24:53):
Looked at a child with such contempt and thought that.

Speaker 1 (02:25:00):
That breaks my heart when I hear people doing that,
I just that really gets me.

Speaker 2 (02:25:05):
That's how normal this was. Wow, little fags, that was
another one. Look at the little fag which that is?
I mean, and we're talking about young boys, my mom,
I remember little faggots. I fully remember that. I mean,

(02:25:26):
that's just stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:25:26):
That's abusive behavior, even though you're not saying it directly
to the child's face, But that's abusive.

Speaker 2 (02:25:32):
What's going on? Yeah, the narrative these people are having
about your children, that breaks my heart.

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
Kind of a healthy individual, we know, Yeah, you're not
a healthy individual. It's a very unhealed person who behaves
that way, especially towards an innocent child who's done nothing,
nothing to deserve that.

Speaker 2 (02:25:55):
The over sexualization of kids, and I just always think
about that. One teacher, he was just so sexual and
he'd oh he was so less vicious. That's the one word.
It was just so. And he was gay, you know,
so I guess that means it's fine, but like, just no,
we are not. We don't do that in front of kids. No,

(02:26:18):
no to the girls, like you know, just making jokes
and you look you look, you know, you look so
sexy today and look at that hot lot. I don't
say that to a child ever.

Speaker 1 (02:26:30):
Oh my god, I don't care who you are. You
don't behave that way to children. No, no, no, there's yeah,
there's just so much.

Speaker 2 (02:26:39):
And again we know the.

Speaker 1 (02:26:40):
Root cause is usually these these these people who are
committing these crimes, the perpetrators, the ones behaving this way,
with the inappropriate behavior, they're very much unhealed, and usually
they are also victims of abuse themselves in some way,
shape or form, and it's like they're just perpetuating the cycle.
It's not until someone chooses to literally stand their ground

(02:27:02):
and say no and cut the cycle.

Speaker 2 (02:27:04):
Like what you're doing. Comfortable too, Like I remember being
like very uncomfortable. You always fear.

Speaker 1 (02:27:12):
I think your soul always knew, you always knew, well,
I always you always knew you.

Speaker 2 (02:27:18):
When you, from such a young age, are groomed to
believe that this is normal, you learn to completely disregard
all of your emotions because you're like, oh, this is normal.
I've been talking to this is normal. It's normal that
this guy is, you know, dancing on the ground and
popping his butt up and being like, yes, get it,
and like all this stuff. When I'm a teenager, that's

(02:27:39):
normal behavior. It's not normal. It's very inappropriate. It's very bizarre.
We should in no way be teaching these young students
how to portray themselves in an overly sexual manner. Absolutely not.
And but this is what this is how I grew up.
And he still teaches there, and he's right under my

(02:28:00):
mom's thumb, and these are the people that are doing
they're still doing the same thing. And you know what,
like I remember, I always liked him, you know, I thought,
but obviously has never reached out to me or said
anything to me with my mom on all of it.
But I but no, that's completely inappropriate behavior, absolutely one percent.

(02:28:26):
There's no reason why you should be portraying yourself in
that way and teaching these kids how to use their
bodies in that way. But that's also what goes hand
in hand with dance competitions and the way that kids dance,
and we're teaching them. You're you're twelve years old, but
you need to not even I mean you could be

(02:28:46):
like six years old. You look like a but you're
gonna dress up like you're thirty and you're gonna parade
yourself around on stage and you you know, you need
to be sexy and you need to be this. And
it's very similar to pad.

Speaker 1 (02:29:00):
Yes, yes, And we have to stop normalizing this. We
need to end this vicious cycle. It doesn't end until
people start speaking out about how wrong it is.

Speaker 2 (02:29:11):
Remember old school dance was like like.

Speaker 1 (02:29:14):
Just like silly moves in like the eighties or something.

Speaker 2 (02:29:17):
Right, just like even with like old school tap dance.

Speaker 1 (02:29:21):
Oh, we're going back back in the yes, like in
the twenties and the thirties where it was very innocent
and fine, like that's my kind of dance.

Speaker 2 (02:29:29):
I could do that. But look at you know, TikTok
blew up and these kids look at Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:29:36):
You're right, the TikTok dances even they're so sexualized. It's
why and they're kids doing this When I was in
high school. Let me to I'm a bit older than you.
I'm I'm almost forty one. Now. When I was in school,
we were just being kids. We were being normal kids.
We didn't wear, we didn't do we weren't dancing like that.
Oh my god, it was so we were we were

(02:29:58):
so innocent back then. It was so different when I
was growing up in the nineties, and nowadays it's like
whoa kids bring?

Speaker 3 (02:30:05):
You know?

Speaker 2 (02:30:05):
What sex is like? What is going on in the
in the vulgarity and the lyrics and their butts are
hanging out.

Speaker 1 (02:30:12):
Oh my god, it's wild how much has changed in
a few decades.

Speaker 2 (02:30:17):
Well even if you know, even if these even if
they're not kids, you're still a teenager and there's a
ton of grown adults watching that for all absolutely, I know.

Speaker 1 (02:30:30):
Oh my goodness, it's it's it's scary. But again, we're
not going to put a stop chill until we can,
we have to continue talking about it in order to
put a stop to it. That's the only way we're
going to end this vicious cycle is by speaking out.
And I'm telling you, I know you. Speaking out is
gonna help trigger memories in others. I think there are
other people, other other kids you may have known, who

(02:30:55):
probably have questionable memories or strange feelings, and they don't understand.

Speaker 2 (02:31:00):
Why this doesn't end with me. I just doesn't know.
It starts with you.

Speaker 1 (02:31:05):
It starts with you right now.

Speaker 2 (02:31:06):
It's started. So it wasn't the right time, and I
know that, and I feel like with the way that
things are now, it's it's just it's a ticking time bomb.
It's any day now. But I think in order in
order for it to happen, we needed to do this
episode and really just put it out there and if
anybody has is recovering or processing, reach out to me,

(02:31:27):
reach out to Kelly. I think the way that go
to you know, go to police. But I know the
way that we do this is by putting all of
our voices together. And it's exactly what happened with Larry Nasser.
It took three four years, I think, for the next victim,
and then it was just an onslaught. Yeah, abuse is insidious.
It's not something that's easily recognizable. It's not something that

(02:31:48):
you're easily identifying, you know, and it's it's just it's
been able to go on for way too long and
it's it's not just my mom's studio, it's hundreds of
others and thousands of other studios. And I'm not just
saying like you have to reach out to me if
it's this specific studio in New Jersey, reach out to

(02:32:11):
me no matter what. Like I think, Yeah, this problem
goes so much deeper than I even know. But the
bottom line is is that you know, this stuff just
needs to stop. And I fully believe that there's gonna
be a lot of other victims who are going to

(02:32:32):
come forward and stand with me on this. I know
there is right timing.

Speaker 1 (02:32:37):
I think the time is now.

Speaker 2 (02:32:39):
It's time. Yeah, I feel that too. I don't know
why I didn't feel like that three years ago. And
maybe it'll take a little bit, but you know this,
this this has got to end. This has gotta end,
And you could throw whatever daggers you want at me.
I just I don't care at this point. I really don't.
That's also a really great feeling when you're like, I
wantn't nervous starting this. I'm not nervous now. I fear

(02:33:01):
about this whole situation is over with. I'm not scared
of the mob putting the hit out on me. You're like,
it's not like that. They don't hear that much. This
is a very very small part of a very gigantic problem.
You know, absolutely, obviously it's very important. But I'm not worried.
I'm just not I'm not worried, and I'm not worried

(02:33:24):
about what people say. If you have something to say
to me, please message me directly, don't go to my friends.
And if you genuinely have a concern about me or
my mental health, my email is Juliette Music contact at
gmail dot com. Feel free to send me your condolences.

(02:33:45):
I don't I don't need it paraded on social media.
It's I never understood that. I'm like, if you genuinely
care about someone, you're not going to go far. You
reach out directly to that person. I'll put my friends
and try and tell them I'm crazy, but you don't
actually reach out to me and ask me how I'm doing.
I know, we know what that tactic's all about. Of course. Yeah,

(02:34:07):
I'm really not concerned.

Speaker 1 (02:34:10):
You simply just spoke your truth. You spoke truth.

Speaker 2 (02:34:14):
This is It's sad. You know, when I I'm a
I'm a pretty tough person at this point in my life,
and humor my number one resource of coping, but it
hits sometimes where this this is so deeply saddening, And
I think the part that messes me up the most
is that I was so close to becoming my mother.

(02:34:39):
The reason I didn't is because I had a reenactment trauma.
It was in the little room at the dance studio,
and I remember we'd go down there, some of me
and my friends, and it was dark down there. I
remember we'd always go down there with the lights off,
and obviously I don't even know, I don't know, I
know so much shit went out. I just remember laying

(02:35:00):
on some of the mats and it was it's just
so dark, it's so fucked up. But I remember I
went down there with one person and my mom caught
me and slapped me, and you know, said never do whatever,
Never do that again. And I never did it again.

(02:35:20):
I also from that point for it, I don't I
don't remember letting her abuse me either. That was that
kind of moment. But I think why, I think why
she acted in that way, because you would think, like, well,
if she's trying to turn you out to be like her,
wouldn't she be proud that she caught no, because that

(02:35:42):
was not what my mom. That was too obvious. It
might have. It was something that would have. I think
it was because it would have been brought right back
to her, you know, like there was some connection to
her to it, and I think that's why. Yeah, it was,
and it would have.

Speaker 1 (02:36:04):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:36:07):
I don't remember. I don't you know, that's it's a
hazy thing, but I just remember how angry she was
and how scared she was.

Speaker 1 (02:36:14):
It was a good thing she yelled at you, right,
It was obviously and maybe very interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:36:20):
Maybe it's because I was older, but even so, like
I I know, you know, what's kind of coming to me?
Let me know how this feels.

Speaker 1 (02:36:27):
It's like part of her is like a small part
of her in there, who knew this is not okay
what she was doing to you, and she was trying
to help save you.

Speaker 2 (02:36:34):
That's what I'm sensing. I've thought that too, And maybe
she just had a moment of consciousness where she was like, oh,
I'm doing this to my own kitah. Yeah, but I
don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why
she did it. I don't know what I don't know
why it clicked in my brain that I never do
it again. Yeah, you know, I I don't know, but

(02:36:55):
there is a level, there's something within her that knows
this behavior is wrong, absolutely, and it's it's.

Speaker 3 (02:37:06):
This.

Speaker 2 (02:37:06):
It's time. I mean this, this needs this needs to end.
This needs to end. So hopefully by by doing this episode,
it'll raise some awareness and change it already is I
feel it.

Speaker 1 (02:37:20):
You're so brave, Julia, thank you for sharing your truth.

Speaker 2 (02:37:24):
I have a chemical missing in my brain. I know
that something's not there. I feel throughout all of this,
I just like, I don't know. I I don't know.
I feel like I should. You know what, It's not
that I have a chemical missing in my brain. It's
a psychological hole that was in my brain is gone.

Speaker 1 (02:37:45):
Way to put it, it's scared of There's nothing to
fear but fear itself.

Speaker 2 (02:37:50):
There's nothing to fear. I don't have anything to be
scared of anymore. I don't I shouldn't have any anxiety
over this. I am am not the one who's being
taken down. I'm not the one who could be facing
you know, all of this whatever, I don't even know
what to call it. I don't know, like repercussions. I'm

(02:38:10):
not the one consequences. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (02:38:12):
You were a child who was abused. You were a
victim of abuse.

Speaker 2 (02:38:17):
That's it, and none of us should have any fear
with any of that. And if you do, it's because
of what they did to you. There are more survivors
than there are abusers, because when you think about it,
one person can go ahead and abuse twenty people, and
if they all put them in a hold psychologically and
they're never say anything, I mean there's there's power and

(02:38:40):
numbers or strength in numbers. There's more of us than
there are then, especially in this situation with my mother,
especially she's one woman.

Speaker 1 (02:38:49):
The light's going to be victorious.

Speaker 2 (02:38:51):
Yeah. I just I have nothing to be scared of,
and that part of my brain has has left the building,
Like it's just I'm over it. I don't. I'm not worried.
And it's so freeing because I remember the first time
we recorded this, I felt I was so different, like
I just didn't feel like I am so much more
grounded today. Yeah, because I feel like I've processed a

(02:39:11):
lot of things, and I've also come to terms with
a lot of things that maybe I disagreed with the
first time around. But you know, there's nothing speaking the
truth like this. There's nothing to be scared of. There's
nothing to be scared of. Positive intentions, good intentions, raising awareness,
sparking change, positive change, protecting the next generation. Nothing to

(02:39:36):
be scared of. So that's my piece. That's all I
have for today.

Speaker 1 (02:39:41):
That's a perfect note to end on.

Speaker 2 (02:39:43):
Juliette. And dance should be fun.

Speaker 1 (02:39:47):
Yes, let's make dance fun again. Right, maybe you should
start a dance studio.

Speaker 2 (02:39:52):
Really trumpy, I kind of did, very politician. I didn't
even mean to do that. I swear.

Speaker 1 (02:40:05):
Maybe maybe you'll open a big dance chain one day
where it's simply just kids go and have fun and dance, right,
just have fun.

Speaker 2 (02:40:13):
I always wanted a recording studio called Serenity Studios. But
maybe I'll have a dance studio called Serenity. Maybe you'll
do both. Why can't you do both? It should be
fun and it sucks because I I feel like I
probably would have enjoyed it. I would have enjoyed a
lot of things in my life a lot more if
they weren't so dark and you weren't being abused. I know,

(02:40:35):
I know dance should be fun. It should be a
really amazing fun thing, right.

Speaker 1 (02:40:41):
And I could be very healing. I find there's beautiful
healing frequently and moving your body, and maybe that's part
of your mission. I'm going to say, maybe opening up
a dance studio, not just for kids to attend, but
also maybe adults to help them.

Speaker 2 (02:40:55):
Here did that so Funnily enough, I did that in
New Mexico. I don't even know what a dance class
and I took it and they told me how good
I was. And I was like, oh, so bad because
I always thought I was.

Speaker 1 (02:41:12):
You were told you were bad by you know, abusive situations.

Speaker 2 (02:41:15):
He told me I was a good dancer. And at
the end, I think the coach and I started crying.
I think she gave me a hug because I was like,
I was abused at my dance studio growing up, Like
I've never been in such a happy, positive Oh. And
it was like a New Mexico. I think it was
like African inspired dance. It was so much fun and
it was all women from all different walks of life

(02:41:37):
and how dance should be. It was a completely different
energy than anything I grew up. When it was fun, open, exciting,
like it was just like this big party and everybody
was just there to have a good time and it
wasn't judgmental and we weren't judging each other's bodies. And
then I thought it realized how messed up my mom's

(02:42:01):
dance studio was because and no, I never felt like
that for one day. None of the teachers there ever
made me feel like that. One teacher did there never.

Speaker 1 (02:42:11):
That's one of the good dance studios we can say
in New Mexico.

Speaker 2 (02:42:14):
I don't remember it, but what the name of it was.
It was in uh I think it was knob Hill
and it was just this downtown. It was across from
a sushi restaurant. I had the best time. It was fun.
But that's how it should be. And that's how you know,
even as an adult, to have that much fun, Like
imagine as a kid, like how much fun?

Speaker 1 (02:42:34):
I know, maybe that's part of your divine mission in
this lifetime.

Speaker 2 (02:42:39):
Oh fun? But yeah, out out to that studio. I
don't know what's name. Shout them out. I think that
covered everything.

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