May 31, 2023 • 30 mins
An all-star episode on one of the top 5 weirdest movies ever made? That's Annihilation, the 2018 Alex Garland / Natalie Portman film, which has only grown in my estimation as the years have passed. I'm joined by filmmaker Jeff Schellenberg, to marvel over this staggering, brain-breaking, gorgeous film, which you need to rewatch just to try and understand it. Is this the best film in Alex Garland's filmography? What do you think?
Trying to figure out, "What should I stream tonight?" Come back to Watch This Tonight as your podcast for the best movie recommendations for what to watch on streaming platforms. Please leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts if you're enjoying the show, and mention a movie or TV show you want me to cover (and I will). Subscribe for future episodes.
Reach out to us @BenamorDan (Twitter), watch_this_tonight (Instagram) or @watchthistonightpodcast (TikTok).
Watch This Tonight is a movie recommendation podcast and TV recommendation podcast, produced by Voyage Media. You can find other Voyage Media podcasts at voyagemedia.fm
Thanks for listening.
Trying to figure out, "What should I stream tonight?" Come back to Watch This Tonight as your podcast for the best movie recommendations for what to watch on streaming platforms. Please leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts if you're enjoying the show, and mention a movie or TV show you want me to cover (and I will). Subscribe for future episodes.
Reach out to us @BenamorDan (Twitter), watch_this_tonight (Instagram) or @watchthistonightpodcast (TikTok).
Watch This Tonight is a movie recommendation podcast and TV recommendation podcast, produced by Voyage Media. You can find other Voyage Media podcasts at voyagemedia.fm
Thanks for listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Voyage. Welcome to watch this tonight. I'm your host, An Bettimore.
(00:22):
I'm a producer, writer of filmand television and now a podcast producer.
And despite having every streaming service,I never know what to watch. So
anytime I watch something good, Italk about it on the show. This
way, you'll never have the sameproblem I do. I watched this tonight.
There's always something good to watch.Let's get started, all right.
Today on the show, we aredoing one of our all star episodes about
(00:44):
a movie that plays different with thepassage of time. And the movie that
we're doing, after much heated debatebetween myself and my guest Jeff, is
Annihilation. So before we get intothat, though, I want to introduce
you to Jeff. Tell you aboutJeff. So. Jeff and I met
at the Vancouver Film School, andbut I almost feel like I've known you
(01:06):
so long. I had a momentthis morning, I was like, did
I meet Jeff at the Vancouver VilleSchool? Like, I almost feel like
I've known you from before that.For whatever reason, we just always got
along. And Jeff as a filmmaker, and he has a film that he
is almost he's been spitting distance ofpicture lock on that he's working on right
now that he's killed himself to make, which I'm so happy for him.
(01:26):
What is what is your movie?Can you tell the listeners what it's about?
Humilits like a one location horror movie, kind of a fun play on
an urban legend about young girls tryingto get followers and this ghost that takes
vengeance on people if they if you'reabusing your phone too much. It kind
(01:48):
of plays into that theme and asghost hunters, and it's kind of fun
mystery kind of story. Yeah.I probably did well. No, I
Annihilation too. It's uh we it'sfunny. Audience can't see this because this
(02:08):
is an audio medium. But I'mwearing a coat, like I'm in Vancouver
in like September during the rainy seasonin Los Angeles. It's been cold here
for so long. Remind me,Jeff, you're you're in um what where
are you in Canada? Vancouver?You are you are in Vancouver? Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, God, I love Vancouver. I remember
we met you in uh yeah,Vancouver Film School in twenty ten and it
(02:32):
was like one class we watched amovie together. It was a French film
of camera what it was called inthe same like auditorius little auditorium room,
and before it started, you're like, okay, what are the rules and
commentary people trying to meet any whatever, And it was such like a fun
uh not really does that or kindof chemson, but it was such a
fun kind of thing you did ona bunch of movie lovers, movie geeks
(02:53):
gettinggether watch in the movie. Yeah, I can't help myself. Um,
I h you know, it's funny. This shows you, you know,
we both know how difficult it isto make a film and then also how
difficult it is to get people tolike that movie. And I thought it
was fascinating that, despite the factthat you and I are good friends,
we have widely opposing taste, itwas actually very difficult for us to find
(03:15):
a movie that we both fell passionatelyabout to discuss. And ironically enough,
that movie was Annihilation, which isone of the as I rewatched it,
top five weirdest mainstream movies ever made. Yeah, it's definitely open to interpretation.
Yeah, what you just said.But how being not connecting with certain
(03:38):
movies. I thought about that alot lately. That's fascinating, how like
even a movie can be quote unquotegreat. Maybe a person doesn't connect to
it and it's like who is oneright or wrong? Or what is that?
And it's like, it's interesting howwe're so influenced by our backgrounds and
what's kind of shaped us to whatwe'll connect with and what we'll connect with
or at the time in our liveskind of thing. Yeah, it was.
(04:00):
It was actually a great movie towatch again because on the first watch
you're so like knocked out by itsstrangeness. You're it's almost like you need
a second watch just to kind ofwrap your head around it. And there's
so much to talk about with it. I think it really is, especially
with the benefit of time. Ifeel like Annihilation is almost like what we
(04:24):
hoped that the streaming revolution would bringabout, more movies like that, where
it's like, you know, thisstrange, bold, you know, but
not small, like a big,strange, bold movie, very like distinctive.
And I don't think that's really happened. I think if we if that
movie came out today and it waslike a Netflix original movie, we'd be
(04:46):
like, Wow, this is likeone of the better original streaming movies in
many years. For whatever reason,I think that we just haven't had movies
like this that much, unless it'slike an A twenty four film or something
like that. But even I thinkit was. I was so impressed by
rewatching it, really I was.And and one thing I want to talk
to you about. Its interesting,you say, like our backgrounds and how
(05:09):
they affect how we process stuff.So there's a moment earlier in the movie,
and I and again, I wasso impressed with the setup of the
movie, which the first like fifteenminutes of this movie are incredible. Earlier
in the movie, we meet nowapartment. Her husband has been missing for
a long time, and she's inher house and she's sad because he's missing,
(05:30):
and then he sort of just walksinto the house and they have this
Crosby Stills Nash song playing helplessly hoping, and it's so I thought it was
so effective. I remember I getgoose once every time I watch it,
the way that they played that musicand how it incorporates with the scene.
But you're Canadian. I don't knowif like that that song means anything to
(05:51):
you or you connect to it anyway, Like, what was your reaction to
that moment? I mean, Iguess big Neil young Fen when I think
back the first time I watched it, all the stroat for me. I
watched at Christmas time a few yearsago, and ironically and was just how
(06:13):
beautiful the production design and art wasand the theme of um self destruction,
how people like don't die, they'renot killed, like we literally self destruct.
We will find a way biology willfind a way to kill ourselves to
self destruct. That blew me away. I was like, Wow, I
never had that thought before. That'sfascinating. Um, your question about the
music on that scene, I don'tremember picking up on that. Um,
(06:40):
yeah, I think that when overmy head, I missed that part.
But yes, yeah, Natalie Portmanis such a great actress man so all
like the little all the beats anda little beach he nails. It feels
so like something's there's a tension therethat's not an organic tension or normal with
the relationship. Something something's different there. Yeah, that feeling is present through
(07:01):
the entire movie, that just somethingis wrong. I was the rewatch It
was really noticeable to me. Ithink that my memory of the film was
that it was very artsy FARTZI Andwhen you rewatch it, you see that
the first eleven This is what happensin the first eleven minutes of this movie.
Natalie Portman's husband's missing for a year. He returns home, he can't
(07:23):
remember anything, He has like aseizure, and ambulance goes to take him
to the hospital. A swat teampulls over the ambulance and abducts him and
Natalie Portman. And that's the firsteleven minutes of the movie. And then
right after that, she learns aboutthis meteor that hit this area and there's
a shimmering barrier around it that keepsexpanding, and everything they sent into it
(07:46):
never comes back except for Oscar Isaac, who is now dying. And maybe
if Natalie Portman goes in there,she can figure out what's killing him and
cure it. And that's the beginningof the movie. Who is not watching
the movie after that set up?Yeah, what a great setup. That's
a million dollars setup. Even toI still remember the few minutes in the
(08:09):
music, the acoustic guitar, acousticguitar plucking on the asteroid coming to hit
the lighthouse. This like really nicepretty beach lighthouse. What a cool contrast.
He would think he would be acousticguitar music is so unexpected there you'd
think would be some sort of scifi music or something aggressive or reretning.
It's almost like a peaceful, organic, biological sound. I don't know.
(08:33):
That's why I would interpret that it'ssuch an intrastart an artistic choice too,
because it's such like an opposite,ironic choice. It seems like so much
of the most interesting art is alwayslike it's like contradictory or contrary. It's
not it's might expect it. It'ssuch an that's still I still remember that
it was so unexpected and such abeautiful, cool kind of movie magic moment.
(08:56):
Yeah. I think that's a greatpoint because a lot of the movies
like that where so for example,like once they go into the shimmer,
right, they go in, andyou're expecting the obvious way to do it
would be an immediate crazy thing thatthey see or something right, But instead
she I think she has a dreamabout cheating on her husband, and then
she wakes up in the tent andshe gets out of the tent and they're
(09:22):
like, we've been in here forfour days, and the only reason they
know that is because they can seehow much food they've eaten, but none
of them has any memory of what'shappened in those four days. And it's
so scary, Like it's so discomfortsyou. Right, it's just not you're
thrown off constantly by like the choicesthat they make. It's just not what
(09:43):
you expect it to be. Yeah, you made a good point there,
man, of I guess in thewriting or what it came down to was
it's unexpected. The whole movie sortof feels unexpected. It takes little right
turns, we think it's going togo straight. So many movies these days
don't do that over perfect. Thismovie could have been her all the mistiques
(10:05):
it could have made it. Ithink it made so many interesting choices,
and it feels so full of energy. So movies like kind of expected,
there's like this so little energy tothem, but this movie feels so full
of energy. Just watching it,you don't know what's going to happen.
Anything could happen sort of in thismovie. Well yeah, I mean especially
once. So the first couple ofbeats is they killed this crocodile, they
(10:28):
discovered the crocodile has shark teeth,and then they find the video of Oscar
Isaac's team and it shows Oscar cuttinga guy open and his intestines are moving
around like they're in like a swimmingpool, like a like a worm like
squirming around his body. And thenthey have the bear with the human female
(10:48):
voice, which is seriously one ofthe scariest things I've ever seen in a
movie in my life. I rememberthe first time I saw it how it
profoundly upset me, and it wasit was I think that what's so amazing
about it is the sound design,because when you hear that idea and it's
like, oh, there, butit's like talking with like a woman's voice.
(11:09):
Like if you remember when they didAntichrist with Lars one Treer and they
had the fox and the fox saidlike, I don't remember what he said.
It took so the fox said somethingand into Christ and it played.
People said it played almost funny,and I think that was the danger of
this idea, But when you watchin the movie, there's nothing funny about
it. It is like unholy isso upsetting hearing that bear and her voice
(11:31):
coming out, it's so fah,Yeah, there's something. Yes, it's
definitely creepy. Has it nails thatcreepy element. I think so much of
like what makes things creepy is whenit's kind of similar but different. It's
like you don't know, you don'tknow what it's gonna move, how it's
gonna move. Like zombies were scarythe first few times, but everyone knows
(11:52):
how they're kind of gonna move now, see it's expected. But if it's
something new and different, and evenif like it's even scary, you don't
know how to react to something,like if you're supposed to laugh for be
terrified. And yeah, that bearis with the woman's voice. I guess
who the voice of the woman whohad just killed the scientists who lost their
daughter. Uh, yeah, that'sso And you feel like you're so in
(12:16):
the mote moment with Nellie Parlaman onthe other actresses. It's such a cool
scene it plays at the Bear.I mean, they do such a great
job of like continually upping the anteof just fucking creeping you out, like
just you know, it's like thethey start small and it just keeps getting
bigger and bigger and bigger. AndI looked up the plot of the book
(12:39):
because I wanted to know I hadread that Alex Garland had really kind of
like taken it his own way,and if you look up the plot of
the book, it's way different.I mean there's pieces that are in that
are there, but it's clearly likehe's doing his own thing. Um,
he said. I think I readan interview he said something the effect of
(13:00):
he wanted to he read the bookand then like did not look at it
again and then just did his adaptation, which I thought was a really interesting
way of doing it. Yeah,what he does. Yeah, it's I
mean, it's such a great setupto go into. Um. I haven't
read the books at helment in that, but just yeah, a group of
(13:20):
scientists, of female scientists, alldifferent specialists, um, physicists, biologists,
uh uh, paramedic another one,all going into this like it's almost
like going to another planet, anotherlooking at another investigating another type of biology.
(13:41):
Um, and it can just refractor mutate off of them. It's
such like a million dollars setup,man, genius. It's there's so much
you can do with it, That'swhat you said. The movie feels like
it has so much energy. Itfeels like it's bursting at the seems like
it feels like we're we're just scratchingthe surface of a world that is way
(14:03):
more expansive, and there's just youcould you could have a whole show that
was said in that world. Yeah, you know, pretty easily. Yeah,
that's too It almost feels like itcould be a lot more. It's
almost too bad. It's it's sointeresting, like even how it likes some
of the stuff when they're with theguy's dead body in the pool that's half
sucked, oh yeah, hell yeah, and how it's like it's very threatening
(14:26):
but also beautiful, like the flowers. It's so like sort of like it's
violent and beautiful. It's such aninteresting contrast, really cool, very the
Last of Us. If you've seenThe Last of Us, a lot of
stuff in there is like that,with the fungus growing people on fucking yeah
um and then the absolutely insane justwhat the fuck ending? I remember again,
(14:52):
Sometimes you have movies where maybe justI'm always tired, I don't know,
but sometimes I'll be watching a movieand let's say I'm like like kind
of like getting sleepy for whatever reason, and then you get to the end
and something happens. It's so strangeand you're like, did I actually watch
that or did I dream it?And that's how I felt with the end
(15:13):
of this movie. It's so fuckingweird, and it's still I still don't
really know exactly what it means,but I like I like that I don't
know what it means, and Ilike that it forces me to kind of
puzzle it out. Obviously, spoileralert, we're gonna talk with the end
of this movie, although frankly,I don't even know how to spoil it
because I couldn't really explain to youexactly what happens. That's fascinating you say
(15:35):
that nodding off a bit, becauseI've seen it three times, and I
like, I've knodded off a littlebit every time, even when I'm not
tired, even like I'll just startto Bob Bob apples for like a second
or two. Okay, what didI miss or something? And yeah,
like the pacing just sloges right downand then it not that it's a bad
(15:56):
thing, but um, it's interesting. It plays it like into the kind
of the theme of the movie,how you're not exactly sure what you saw
or not exactly sure how to interpretthings. Maybe mayberet as well. Oh
well, but I think it becomesincreasingly dreamy the longer that it goes.
Right at the beginning, it's veryplot and stuff is happening and you and
(16:19):
it's like very clear what's going on. And then the middle section is showing
you the promise to the premise ofall this crazy shit that happens in this
thing. And then the last sectionis where it's just like what it feels
very subjective, right, we're sortof just with Natalie Portman. She finds
Jennifer Jason Lee's character and that's awhole crazy thing where she like emmolates or
(16:41):
whatever the hell happens with her.And then there's the the being that is
created like in her image, whichit's funny. I had this memory.
It's interesting, had time plays trickson you. I had this memory that
Natalie Portman and the thing that turnsinto her memory like had like a dance
dance revolution, dance battle, likethat was my memory of it. But
(17:04):
that's not it's that, it justit just shadows for movements for a little
while, and yeah, it's soweird. And then the grenade and you're
just I think that the ambiguity ofit, the surreal quality of it is
very much an art film kind ofending. Um, but the stuff that
comes before that is not like that, so it's almost like it changes genres
(17:27):
going into the third act of it. Yeah, that's fascinating. Uh.
Yeah, when when it takes thebiological form, takes her form and like
mimics her movements for like a minuteand they kind of go around and falls
and mimics her feels so like Ijust remember thinking it was almost like too,
(17:49):
like Kubrick asked, like two thousandand one or a Yeah, I
don't know why I thought that,but it feels like it's interesting. It
takes another turn where it doesn't justassume that alien form is hostile. That
it's could be. It's just thereto observe or to interact with humans,
and there's no I thought that wasinteresting. It's not just like black and
(18:10):
a white. It's gray. Somuch of reality is gray. It's not
exactly black and white, and thatit yeah, plays with that. Yeah,
definitely open to interpretation. The rightto the end with right to their
shout, to their eyes and lookingdifferent. But that that little part where
it mimics her form, I thoughtwas fast and it was such a cool,
(18:33):
um interesting little spin on things,and that's how it feels the whole.
It doesn't feel like the Aly lifeforma is houst hostile. It feels
great, beautiful, and those hostileelements to about it's not like it's black
and white um. And also therunning kind of thread of infidelity, like
(18:55):
that, I'd forgotten how prominent itwas. That at the very beginning,
there's the guy she's like at theschool or whatever, and he's like,
hey, it's been a year,and he tries to hold her hand,
and then we find out that sheslept with that guy while she thought that
Oscar Isaac was dead, presumably,and then at the end she tells Oscar
(19:15):
Isaac, You're not Kane, areyou? And he says, I don't
think so. And I thought itmade me think of I think this was
Chris Rock. Chris Rock is aStamps special where talks about cheating on his
wife and how you know the reasonthat people cheat on their spouses they want
something new. But then when yougo back to your spouse because of the
infidelity, you've changed them and they'vebecome something new to you. Like it.
(19:38):
They become like a new person almost, And I thought that's almost kind
of what we saw here is thatyou know, she had this affair,
it affected her relationship, and nowshe sort of reunited with him, but
not really, it's not really him. I thought that was all. There's
something there with infidelity again that youget. This is like, I feel
like this is probably a big likefilm, school paper movie, because you
(20:00):
could talk about this all day longand come up with any interpretation you wanted
and probably find a way to supportit. Yeah, there's many elements to
the film that are very open ended. I guess my interpretation was that he
was changed in alien or the otherlife format taken him. I guess because
(20:22):
the eye shouts to his eye,Oliver's eyes being different. Even then if
like you said, it would beinteresting too because that's like this the self
destruction theme I thought was so cool. And how all the scientists are all
one was a big time drug user, the other one were they they all
(20:48):
head forms of big time baggage intheir lives. But that was fascinating,
man, fascinating right to the end. Just how even whoever you look at
people or life, it finds away to kind of screw up, even
even if you has the best intentionsit'll find a way to self destruct.
Um, fascinating. Man, I'mstill thinking about that. I don't know
(21:12):
what to make of that. That'sjust I've never thought of it like that,
of life like that a brilliant Iwanted to almost like quickly kind of
like power rank Alex Garland's career becausehe's done a lot of stuff that's sort
of like circling this and I'm gonnajust quickly give you like a Alex Garland
(21:32):
things, and then I want totalk about if this is the best thing
that he's done to date. SoThe Beach Sunshine, twenty eight days later
DEVS, which is an FX series, Annihilation X Machina, and then he
made a movie called Men in twentytwenty two. Do you think that the
best one of all matter? Iwould put it right up there with X
(21:57):
X makin it feels like more relevant, like every day with all the all
the teams, Like every month intwenty twenty three, there's like major tech
breakthroughs like major um X mackin withthe whole term test and the robot stripping
him basically not to reck with ifanyone who wasn't seeing this or X MAC
(22:19):
and I definitely put that like topof your list, and those are like
must seem X Mackin is like amust see film. I was saying,
yeah, and I know everyone Annihilationis right up there. Uh uh.
X Mackin is like the nineteen eightyfour Man of and like that type of
film where it's like everyone should seeit because it's so relevant. It's going
(22:41):
to be relevant for everyone. Umyeah, what an interesting time to be
alive dance. Yeah. I think, you know, when you look at
his like filmography, I think ifyou look at a movie like Sunshine,
for example, um, I thinkthat there's been films where it's like he
didn't completely get all the elements towork together. Like Sunshine is a really
(23:04):
interesting movie. There's a lot ofreally great qualities. Has been criticized for
an abrupt shift in the third act. You know, I think overall I
liked I liked that movie a lot, but I don't think it's as good
as this movie. I don't thinkit's even close, frankly, And I
think that if you look at youknow, like I try to watch Dev's,
I found it a bit cold,Like I didn't really connect to it
(23:26):
emotionally, which I think is whyI didn't end up finishing it. Obviously,
the Beach sort of famously maligned.I think that, you know,
that movie is not considered necessarily agreat movie, although you know, I
haven't revisited in a long time andI didn't see men. Did you see
men? I haven't seen Man.I thought of yellok, you just said
with them sort of disconnected way throughabout the beach, and one eight days
(23:49):
later was like, so there wasbrilliant man and I sort of kind of
lost connect when I kind of gotto the compound and there was a bit
more like turning on themselves and likethe the rape stuff was kind of I
don't know, it was less somuch less interesting than the zombies. But
yeah, definitely definitely a guy worthwatching. Definite has some cool ideas that
(24:12):
he's playing with in films. Forsure. I think that where I would
say that if you look at thebody of his work, where I have
more difficulty with it is when itis a little bit colder emotionally. And
I think that that's why I mentionedthe Crosby Stills song right, it was
like, because it's so warm rightat the beginning of that movie with Natalie
(24:33):
Portman when she's in the house andthe song is playing and oscar Isaac comes
back and she's so overwhelmed to seehim, and her reaction is so emotional,
and so it has a real basisin something emotional that I thought really
connected. Yeah, there's some shotsof her, I think in the bedroom
(24:55):
and around the beginning of the moviewhere she looks like very I don't really
describe it, but like very likebeautifully motherly, like obviously very beautiful actress,
but she looks like very um patient, kind warm, like very warm
support a very like um open.I don't know if organic is the word,
(25:22):
but very like if I were tolike look at a picture of motherly,
how she looks in the futures ishow is how she I would describe
as motherly, like very beautiful andwarm and accepting and not like she'll be
your fancy clothes are like wealth orluxury, very like organically motherly, right,
She's she's sort of yeah, she'svery approachable. The way that Hit
(25:47):
they've presented her is in such away that because Natalie Portman can totally play
I see and distant, and she'snot playing that at all, especially in
the flashbacks where they show the likepositive times in her relationship with ascar Isaac,
where they're sort of like in bedand you know, having a positive
moment together. I think that theI feel like Annihilation is him putting all
(26:08):
the pieces together, right. He'sgot the weird sci fi stuff that's in
all of almost all this stuff.He's got the kind of third act detour,
but I think it actually works inthis one or maybe some of the
other films that didn't work quite aswell. And he has that emotional grounding
that makes us care so that wecan then engage in the wild interesting ideas.
I have to revisit x Machia.I'm trying to remember. I definitely
(26:30):
liked it. I want to,you know, his movies. He is
a great example of a guy whereyou should like revisit his movies every five
to ten years, because his movieis definitely reward like repeated viewings. They
don't they don't get everything the firsttime. I think, yeah, Annihilation
him, I would, yeah,say he's a great film. I'm sure
(26:51):
to last twenty years. I'm sureto last a long time. I'm not
sure how long. Maybe to lastlyany humanity, it's uh yeah, I
don't know, just so interesting,such an interesting movie on the theme of
self destruction and some other life formbeing so beautiful and violent or destructive and
(27:15):
is different and then like trying toobserve humanity. Humanity. Whenever we see
the movies usually they're very like blackand white or albough what hostility and violence.
This seems so much more gray andinteresting. X MAC and A Yeah,
just um sort of usual suspects kindof set up. I don't know
(27:38):
how to say too much for thelike, but it's such a brilliant take
on like the Turing Test and knowinghow and how to interact with AGI and
the danger of it, how itcan manipulate us once it knows how human
desires. It has the game play, and it's just how is it going
(28:00):
to get there? And demons areall sort of uh, we all have
her flaws or desires, So it'sthe once it figures that out, not
I mean that's the future of Yeah, we're like we're like two weeks from
X mocking being real, Like that'shappened like for the next episode of this
podcast. Um, well, Ithink that kind of covers it. I
(28:23):
think certainly we would both agree thatAnnihilation I would say has, if anything,
has aged to where it's I holdit and higher esteem now than I
probably did back then. I thinkI back then it was oh, what
an interesting movie. Now it's like, oh, this, could we have
a movie like this again? Like, I don't know, I feel like
cinema in general has degraded a bit, particularly because of the streaming stuff,
(28:48):
and I don't I can't remember thelast movie that I saw that made me
feel the way Annihilation made me feel. Yeah, that's a good point.
There's like some movies you watch andit's like any emotion you kind of get
out of it, and when viewingit any intellectual stimulation or ideas, you
kind of think about it for alittle bit. Okay, you figured out
then. But this movie, there'slike it sets up so many great questions.
(29:15):
Yeah, and there's some of likethe movie match for the emotion still
feels fresh when you watch it againand steal you know what's happening a second
or through time, but it doesn'tfeel like a sterile or kind of old.
Uh. Yeah, so many interestingideas and emotion to it. Yeah,
(29:45):
definitely say it's a great film.Yeah, it's a staggering piece of
work. Um, okay, well, that is the show for today.
Jeff, is there anywhere people canfollow you Instagram? Just my name Jeff
Schallenberg probably the lamest handle. What'sWhat's? The movie called Amarosa should be
(30:07):
out sometime in um late twenty twentythree, twenty twenty four. Awesome man,
looking forward to it. Well,thank you so much for coming on
the show. That is the podcastfor today. As always, if you're
enjoying the show, please throw usa five star rating on Apple Podcasts.
That is the best way you cansupport the podcast. You can write a
written review too, if you're feelingextra generous that I'll do like a backflip.
(30:27):
We really appreciate that, and subscribefor a future episodes. Until next
time, by h
Voyage. Welcome to watch this tonight. I'm your host, An Bettimore.
(00:22):
I'm a producer, writer of filmand television and now a podcast producer.
And despite having every streaming service,I never know what to watch. So
anytime I watch something good, Italk about it on the show. This
way, you'll never have the sameproblem I do. I watched this tonight.
There's always something good to watch.Let's get started, all right.
Today on the show, we aredoing one of our all star episodes about
(00:44):
a movie that plays different with thepassage of time. And the movie that
we're doing, after much heated debatebetween myself and my guest Jeff, is
Annihilation. So before we get intothat, though, I want to introduce
you to Jeff. Tell you aboutJeff. So. Jeff and I met
at the Vancouver Film School, andbut I almost feel like I've known you
(01:06):
so long. I had a momentthis morning, I was like, did
I meet Jeff at the Vancouver VilleSchool? Like, I almost feel like
I've known you from before that.For whatever reason, we just always got
along. And Jeff as a filmmaker, and he has a film that he
is almost he's been spitting distance ofpicture lock on that he's working on right
now that he's killed himself to make, which I'm so happy for him.
(01:26):
What is what is your movie?Can you tell the listeners what it's about?
Humilits like a one location horror movie, kind of a fun play on
an urban legend about young girls tryingto get followers and this ghost that takes
vengeance on people if they if you'reabusing your phone too much. It kind
(01:48):
of plays into that theme and asghost hunters, and it's kind of fun
mystery kind of story. Yeah.I probably did well. No, I
Annihilation too. It's uh we it'sfunny. Audience can't see this because this
(02:08):
is an audio medium. But I'mwearing a coat, like I'm in Vancouver
in like September during the rainy seasonin Los Angeles. It's been cold here
for so long. Remind me,Jeff, you're you're in um what where
are you in Canada? Vancouver?You are you are in Vancouver? Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, God, I love Vancouver. I remember
we met you in uh yeah,Vancouver Film School in twenty ten and it
(02:32):
was like one class we watched amovie together. It was a French film
of camera what it was called inthe same like auditorius little auditorium room,
and before it started, you're like, okay, what are the rules and
commentary people trying to meet any whatever, And it was such like a fun
uh not really does that or kindof chemson, but it was such a
fun kind of thing you did ona bunch of movie lovers, movie geeks
(02:53):
gettinggether watch in the movie. Yeah, I can't help myself. Um,
I h you know, it's funny. This shows you, you know,
we both know how difficult it isto make a film and then also how
difficult it is to get people tolike that movie. And I thought it
was fascinating that, despite the factthat you and I are good friends,
we have widely opposing taste, itwas actually very difficult for us to find
(03:15):
a movie that we both fell passionatelyabout to discuss. And ironically enough,
that movie was Annihilation, which isone of the as I rewatched it,
top five weirdest mainstream movies ever made. Yeah, it's definitely open to interpretation.
Yeah, what you just said.But how being not connecting with certain
(03:38):
movies. I thought about that alot lately. That's fascinating, how like
even a movie can be quote unquotegreat. Maybe a person doesn't connect to
it and it's like who is oneright or wrong? Or what is that?
And it's like, it's interesting howwe're so influenced by our backgrounds and
what's kind of shaped us to whatwe'll connect with and what we'll connect with
or at the time in our liveskind of thing. Yeah, it was.
(04:00):
It was actually a great movie towatch again because on the first watch
you're so like knocked out by itsstrangeness. You're it's almost like you need
a second watch just to kind ofwrap your head around it. And there's
so much to talk about with it. I think it really is, especially
with the benefit of time. Ifeel like Annihilation is almost like what we
(04:24):
hoped that the streaming revolution would bringabout, more movies like that, where
it's like, you know, thisstrange, bold, you know, but
not small, like a big,strange, bold movie, very like distinctive.
And I don't think that's really happened. I think if we if that
movie came out today and it waslike a Netflix original movie, we'd be
(04:46):
like, Wow, this is likeone of the better original streaming movies in
many years. For whatever reason,I think that we just haven't had movies
like this that much, unless it'slike an A twenty four film or something
like that. But even I thinkit was. I was so impressed by
rewatching it, really I was.And and one thing I want to talk
to you about. Its interesting,you say, like our backgrounds and how
(05:09):
they affect how we process stuff.So there's a moment earlier in the movie,
and I and again, I wasso impressed with the setup of the
movie, which the first like fifteenminutes of this movie are incredible. Earlier
in the movie, we meet nowapartment. Her husband has been missing for
a long time, and she's inher house and she's sad because he's missing,
(05:30):
and then he sort of just walksinto the house and they have this
Crosby Stills Nash song playing helplessly hoping, and it's so I thought it was
so effective. I remember I getgoose once every time I watch it,
the way that they played that musicand how it incorporates with the scene.
But you're Canadian. I don't knowif like that that song means anything to
(05:51):
you or you connect to it anyway, Like, what was your reaction to
that moment? I mean, Iguess big Neil young Fen when I think
back the first time I watched it, all the stroat for me. I
watched at Christmas time a few yearsago, and ironically and was just how
(06:13):
beautiful the production design and art wasand the theme of um self destruction,
how people like don't die, they'renot killed, like we literally self destruct.
We will find a way biology willfind a way to kill ourselves to
self destruct. That blew me away. I was like, Wow, I
never had that thought before. That'sfascinating. Um, your question about the
music on that scene, I don'tremember picking up on that. Um,
(06:40):
yeah, I think that when overmy head, I missed that part.
But yes, yeah, Natalie Portmanis such a great actress man so all
like the little all the beats anda little beach he nails. It feels
so like something's there's a tension therethat's not an organic tension or normal with
the relationship. Something something's different there. Yeah, that feeling is present through
(07:01):
the entire movie, that just somethingis wrong. I was the rewatch It
was really noticeable to me. Ithink that my memory of the film was
that it was very artsy FARTZI Andwhen you rewatch it, you see that
the first eleven This is what happensin the first eleven minutes of this movie.
Natalie Portman's husband's missing for a year. He returns home, he can't
(07:23):
remember anything, He has like aseizure, and ambulance goes to take him
to the hospital. A swat teampulls over the ambulance and abducts him and
Natalie Portman. And that's the firsteleven minutes of the movie. And then
right after that, she learns aboutthis meteor that hit this area and there's
a shimmering barrier around it that keepsexpanding, and everything they sent into it
(07:46):
never comes back except for Oscar Isaac, who is now dying. And maybe
if Natalie Portman goes in there,she can figure out what's killing him and
cure it. And that's the beginningof the movie. Who is not watching
the movie after that set up?Yeah, what a great setup. That's
a million dollars setup. Even toI still remember the few minutes in the
(08:09):
music, the acoustic guitar, acousticguitar plucking on the asteroid coming to hit
the lighthouse. This like really nicepretty beach lighthouse. What a cool contrast.
He would think he would be acousticguitar music is so unexpected there you'd
think would be some sort of scifi music or something aggressive or reretning.
It's almost like a peaceful, organic, biological sound. I don't know.
(08:33):
That's why I would interpret that it'ssuch an intrastart an artistic choice too,
because it's such like an opposite,ironic choice. It seems like so much
of the most interesting art is alwayslike it's like contradictory or contrary. It's
not it's might expect it. It'ssuch an that's still I still remember that
it was so unexpected and such abeautiful, cool kind of movie magic moment.
(08:56):
Yeah. I think that's a greatpoint because a lot of the movies
like that where so for example,like once they go into the shimmer,
right, they go in, andyou're expecting the obvious way to do it
would be an immediate crazy thing thatthey see or something right, But instead
she I think she has a dreamabout cheating on her husband, and then
she wakes up in the tent andshe gets out of the tent and they're
(09:22):
like, we've been in here forfour days, and the only reason they
know that is because they can seehow much food they've eaten, but none
of them has any memory of what'shappened in those four days. And it's
so scary, Like it's so discomfortsyou. Right, it's just not you're
thrown off constantly by like the choicesthat they make. It's just not what
(09:43):
you expect it to be. Yeah, you made a good point there,
man, of I guess in thewriting or what it came down to was
it's unexpected. The whole movie sortof feels unexpected. It takes little right
turns, we think it's going togo straight. So many movies these days
don't do that over perfect. Thismovie could have been her all the mistiques
(10:05):
it could have made it. Ithink it made so many interesting choices,
and it feels so full of energy. So movies like kind of expected,
there's like this so little energy tothem, but this movie feels so full
of energy. Just watching it,you don't know what's going to happen.
Anything could happen sort of in thismovie. Well yeah, I mean especially
once. So the first couple ofbeats is they killed this crocodile, they
(10:28):
discovered the crocodile has shark teeth,and then they find the video of Oscar
Isaac's team and it shows Oscar cuttinga guy open and his intestines are moving
around like they're in like a swimmingpool, like a like a worm like
squirming around his body. And thenthey have the bear with the human female
(10:48):
voice, which is seriously one ofthe scariest things I've ever seen in a
movie in my life. I rememberthe first time I saw it how it
profoundly upset me, and it wasit was I think that what's so amazing
about it is the sound design,because when you hear that idea and it's
like, oh, there, butit's like talking with like a woman's voice.
(11:09):
Like if you remember when they didAntichrist with Lars one Treer and they
had the fox and the fox saidlike, I don't remember what he said.
It took so the fox said somethingand into Christ and it played.
People said it played almost funny,and I think that was the danger of
this idea, But when you watchin the movie, there's nothing funny about
it. It is like unholy isso upsetting hearing that bear and her voice
(11:31):
coming out, it's so fah,Yeah, there's something. Yes, it's
definitely creepy. Has it nails thatcreepy element. I think so much of
like what makes things creepy is whenit's kind of similar but different. It's
like you don't know, you don'tknow what it's gonna move, how it's
gonna move. Like zombies were scarythe first few times, but everyone knows
(11:52):
how they're kind of gonna move now, see it's expected. But if it's
something new and different, and evenif like it's even scary, you don't
know how to react to something,like if you're supposed to laugh for be
terrified. And yeah, that bearis with the woman's voice. I guess
who the voice of the woman whohad just killed the scientists who lost their
daughter. Uh, yeah, that'sso And you feel like you're so in
(12:16):
the mote moment with Nellie Parlaman onthe other actresses. It's such a cool
scene it plays at the Bear.I mean, they do such a great
job of like continually upping the anteof just fucking creeping you out, like
just you know, it's like thethey start small and it just keeps getting
bigger and bigger and bigger. AndI looked up the plot of the book
(12:39):
because I wanted to know I hadread that Alex Garland had really kind of
like taken it his own way,and if you look up the plot of
the book, it's way different.I mean there's pieces that are in that
are there, but it's clearly likehe's doing his own thing. Um,
he said. I think I readan interview he said something the effect of
(13:00):
he wanted to he read the bookand then like did not look at it
again and then just did his adaptation, which I thought was a really interesting
way of doing it. Yeah,what he does. Yeah, it's I
mean, it's such a great setupto go into. Um. I haven't
read the books at helment in that, but just yeah, a group of
(13:20):
scientists, of female scientists, alldifferent specialists, um, physicists, biologists,
uh uh, paramedic another one,all going into this like it's almost
like going to another planet, anotherlooking at another investigating another type of biology.
(13:41):
Um, and it can just refractor mutate off of them. It's
such like a million dollars setup,man, genius. It's there's so much
you can do with it, That'swhat you said. The movie feels like
it has so much energy. Itfeels like it's bursting at the seems like
it feels like we're we're just scratchingthe surface of a world that is way
(14:03):
more expansive, and there's just youcould you could have a whole show that
was said in that world. Yeah, you know, pretty easily. Yeah,
that's too It almost feels like itcould be a lot more. It's
almost too bad. It's it's sointeresting, like even how it likes some
of the stuff when they're with theguy's dead body in the pool that's half
sucked, oh yeah, hell yeah, and how it's like it's very threatening
(14:26):
but also beautiful, like the flowers. It's so like sort of like it's
violent and beautiful. It's such aninteresting contrast, really cool, very the
Last of Us. If you've seenThe Last of Us, a lot of
stuff in there is like that,with the fungus growing people on fucking yeah
um and then the absolutely insane justwhat the fuck ending? I remember again,
(14:52):
Sometimes you have movies where maybe justI'm always tired, I don't know,
but sometimes I'll be watching a movieand let's say I'm like like kind
of like getting sleepy for whatever reason, and then you get to the end
and something happens. It's so strangeand you're like, did I actually watch
that or did I dream it?And that's how I felt with the end
(15:13):
of this movie. It's so fuckingweird, and it's still I still don't
really know exactly what it means,but I like I like that I don't
know what it means, and Ilike that it forces me to kind of
puzzle it out. Obviously, spoileralert, we're gonna talk with the end
of this movie, although frankly,I don't even know how to spoil it
because I couldn't really explain to youexactly what happens. That's fascinating you say
(15:35):
that nodding off a bit, becauseI've seen it three times, and I
like, I've knodded off a littlebit every time, even when I'm not
tired, even like I'll just startto Bob Bob apples for like a second
or two. Okay, what didI miss or something? And yeah,
like the pacing just sloges right downand then it not that it's a bad
(15:56):
thing, but um, it's interesting. It plays it like into the kind
of the theme of the movie,how you're not exactly sure what you saw
or not exactly sure how to interpretthings. Maybe mayberet as well. Oh
well, but I think it becomesincreasingly dreamy the longer that it goes.
Right at the beginning, it's veryplot and stuff is happening and you and
(16:19):
it's like very clear what's going on. And then the middle section is showing
you the promise to the premise ofall this crazy shit that happens in this
thing. And then the last sectionis where it's just like what it feels
very subjective, right, we're sortof just with Natalie Portman. She finds
Jennifer Jason Lee's character and that's awhole crazy thing where she like emmolates or
(16:41):
whatever the hell happens with her.And then there's the the being that is
created like in her image, whichit's funny. I had this memory.
It's interesting, had time plays trickson you. I had this memory that
Natalie Portman and the thing that turnsinto her memory like had like a dance
dance revolution, dance battle, likethat was my memory of it. But
(17:04):
that's not it's that, it justit just shadows for movements for a little
while, and yeah, it's soweird. And then the grenade and you're
just I think that the ambiguity ofit, the surreal quality of it is
very much an art film kind ofending. Um, but the stuff that
comes before that is not like that, so it's almost like it changes genres
(17:27):
going into the third act of it. Yeah, that's fascinating. Uh.
Yeah, when when it takes thebiological form, takes her form and like
mimics her movements for like a minuteand they kind of go around and falls
and mimics her feels so like Ijust remember thinking it was almost like too,
(17:49):
like Kubrick asked, like two thousandand one or a Yeah, I
don't know why I thought that,but it feels like it's interesting. It
takes another turn where it doesn't justassume that alien form is hostile. That
it's could be. It's just thereto observe or to interact with humans,
and there's no I thought that wasinteresting. It's not just like black and
(18:10):
a white. It's gray. Somuch of reality is gray. It's not
exactly black and white, and thatit yeah, plays with that. Yeah,
definitely open to interpretation. The rightto the end with right to their
shout, to their eyes and lookingdifferent. But that that little part where
it mimics her form, I thoughtwas fast and it was such a cool,
(18:33):
um interesting little spin on things,and that's how it feels the whole.
It doesn't feel like the Aly lifeforma is houst hostile. It feels
great, beautiful, and those hostileelements to about it's not like it's black
and white um. And also therunning kind of thread of infidelity, like
(18:55):
that, I'd forgotten how prominent itwas. That at the very beginning,
there's the guy she's like at theschool or whatever, and he's like,
hey, it's been a year,and he tries to hold her hand,
and then we find out that sheslept with that guy while she thought that
Oscar Isaac was dead, presumably,and then at the end she tells Oscar
(19:15):
Isaac, You're not Kane, areyou? And he says, I don't
think so. And I thought itmade me think of I think this was
Chris Rock. Chris Rock is aStamps special where talks about cheating on his
wife and how you know the reasonthat people cheat on their spouses they want
something new. But then when yougo back to your spouse because of the
infidelity, you've changed them and they'vebecome something new to you. Like it.
(19:38):
They become like a new person almost, And I thought that's almost kind
of what we saw here is thatyou know, she had this affair,
it affected her relationship, and nowshe sort of reunited with him, but
not really, it's not really him. I thought that was all. There's
something there with infidelity again that youget. This is like, I feel
like this is probably a big likefilm, school paper movie, because you
(20:00):
could talk about this all day longand come up with any interpretation you wanted
and probably find a way to supportit. Yeah, there's many elements to
the film that are very open ended. I guess my interpretation was that he
was changed in alien or the otherlife format taken him. I guess because
(20:22):
the eye shouts to his eye,Oliver's eyes being different. Even then if
like you said, it would beinteresting too because that's like this the self
destruction theme I thought was so cool. And how all the scientists are all
one was a big time drug user, the other one were they they all
(20:48):
head forms of big time baggage intheir lives. But that was fascinating,
man, fascinating right to the end. Just how even whoever you look at
people or life, it finds away to kind of screw up, even
even if you has the best intentionsit'll find a way to self destruct.
Um, fascinating. Man, I'mstill thinking about that. I don't know
(21:12):
what to make of that. That'sjust I've never thought of it like that,
of life like that a brilliant Iwanted to almost like quickly kind of
like power rank Alex Garland's career becausehe's done a lot of stuff that's sort
of like circling this and I'm gonnajust quickly give you like a Alex Garland
(21:32):
things, and then I want totalk about if this is the best thing
that he's done to date. SoThe Beach Sunshine, twenty eight days later
DEVS, which is an FX series, Annihilation X Machina, and then he
made a movie called Men in twentytwenty two. Do you think that the
best one of all matter? Iwould put it right up there with X
(21:57):
X makin it feels like more relevant, like every day with all the all
the teams, Like every month intwenty twenty three, there's like major tech
breakthroughs like major um X mackin withthe whole term test and the robot stripping
him basically not to reck with ifanyone who wasn't seeing this or X MAC
(22:19):
and I definitely put that like topof your list, and those are like
must seem X Mackin is like amust see film. I was saying,
yeah, and I know everyone Annihilationis right up there. Uh uh.
X Mackin is like the nineteen eightyfour Man of and like that type of
film where it's like everyone should seeit because it's so relevant. It's going
(22:41):
to be relevant for everyone. Umyeah, what an interesting time to be
alive dance. Yeah. I think, you know, when you look at
his like filmography, I think ifyou look at a movie like Sunshine,
for example, um, I thinkthat there's been films where it's like he
didn't completely get all the elements towork together. Like Sunshine is a really
(23:04):
interesting movie. There's a lot ofreally great qualities. Has been criticized for
an abrupt shift in the third act. You know, I think overall I
liked I liked that movie a lot, but I don't think it's as good
as this movie. I don't thinkit's even close, frankly, And I
think that if you look at youknow, like I try to watch Dev's,
I found it a bit cold,Like I didn't really connect to it
(23:26):
emotionally, which I think is whyI didn't end up finishing it. Obviously,
the Beach sort of famously maligned.I think that, you know,
that movie is not considered necessarily agreat movie, although you know, I
haven't revisited in a long time andI didn't see men. Did you see
men? I haven't seen Man.I thought of yellok, you just said
with them sort of disconnected way throughabout the beach, and one eight days
(23:49):
later was like, so there wasbrilliant man and I sort of kind of
lost connect when I kind of gotto the compound and there was a bit
more like turning on themselves and likethe the rape stuff was kind of I
don't know, it was less somuch less interesting than the zombies. But
yeah, definitely definitely a guy worthwatching. Definite has some cool ideas that
(24:12):
he's playing with in films. Forsure. I think that where I would
say that if you look at thebody of his work, where I have
more difficulty with it is when itis a little bit colder emotionally. And
I think that that's why I mentionedthe Crosby Stills song right, it was
like, because it's so warm rightat the beginning of that movie with Natalie
(24:33):
Portman when she's in the house andthe song is playing and oscar Isaac comes
back and she's so overwhelmed to seehim, and her reaction is so emotional,
and so it has a real basisin something emotional that I thought really
connected. Yeah, there's some shotsof her, I think in the bedroom
(24:55):
and around the beginning of the moviewhere she looks like very I don't really
describe it, but like very likebeautifully motherly, like obviously very beautiful actress,
but she looks like very um patient, kind warm, like very warm
support a very like um open.I don't know if organic is the word,
(25:22):
but very like if I were tolike look at a picture of motherly,
how she looks in the futures ishow is how she I would describe
as motherly, like very beautiful andwarm and accepting and not like she'll be
your fancy clothes are like wealth orluxury, very like organically motherly, right,
She's she's sort of yeah, she'svery approachable. The way that Hit
(25:47):
they've presented her is in such away that because Natalie Portman can totally play
I see and distant, and she'snot playing that at all, especially in
the flashbacks where they show the likepositive times in her relationship with ascar Isaac,
where they're sort of like in bedand you know, having a positive
moment together. I think that theI feel like Annihilation is him putting all
(26:08):
the pieces together, right. He'sgot the weird sci fi stuff that's in
all of almost all this stuff.He's got the kind of third act detour,
but I think it actually works inthis one or maybe some of the
other films that didn't work quite aswell. And he has that emotional grounding
that makes us care so that wecan then engage in the wild interesting ideas.
I have to revisit x Machia.I'm trying to remember. I definitely
(26:30):
liked it. I want to,you know, his movies. He is
a great example of a guy whereyou should like revisit his movies every five
to ten years, because his movieis definitely reward like repeated viewings. They
don't they don't get everything the firsttime. I think, yeah, Annihilation
him, I would, yeah,say he's a great film. I'm sure
(26:51):
to last twenty years. I'm sureto last a long time. I'm not
sure how long. Maybe to lastlyany humanity, it's uh yeah, I
don't know, just so interesting,such an interesting movie on the theme of
self destruction and some other life formbeing so beautiful and violent or destructive and
(27:15):
is different and then like trying toobserve humanity. Humanity. Whenever we see
the movies usually they're very like blackand white or albough what hostility and violence.
This seems so much more gray andinteresting. X MAC and A Yeah,
just um sort of usual suspects kindof set up. I don't know
(27:38):
how to say too much for thelike, but it's such a brilliant take
on like the Turing Test and knowinghow and how to interact with AGI and
the danger of it, how itcan manipulate us once it knows how human
desires. It has the game play, and it's just how is it going
(28:00):
to get there? And demons areall sort of uh, we all have
her flaws or desires, So it'sthe once it figures that out, not
I mean that's the future of Yeah, we're like we're like two weeks from
X mocking being real, Like that'shappened like for the next episode of this
podcast. Um, well, Ithink that kind of covers it. I
(28:23):
think certainly we would both agree thatAnnihilation I would say has, if anything,
has aged to where it's I holdit and higher esteem now than I
probably did back then. I thinkI back then it was oh, what
an interesting movie. Now it's like, oh, this, could we have
a movie like this again? Like, I don't know, I feel like
cinema in general has degraded a bit, particularly because of the streaming stuff,
(28:48):
and I don't I can't remember thelast movie that I saw that made me
feel the way Annihilation made me feel. Yeah, that's a good point.
There's like some movies you watch andit's like any emotion you kind of get
out of it, and when viewingit any intellectual stimulation or ideas, you
kind of think about it for alittle bit. Okay, you figured out
then. But this movie, there'slike it sets up so many great questions.
(29:15):
Yeah, and there's some of likethe movie match for the emotion still
feels fresh when you watch it againand steal you know what's happening a second
or through time, but it doesn'tfeel like a sterile or kind of old.
Uh. Yeah, so many interestingideas and emotion to it. Yeah,
(29:45):
definitely say it's a great film.Yeah, it's a staggering piece of
work. Um, okay, well, that is the show for today.
Jeff, is there anywhere people canfollow you Instagram? Just my name Jeff
Schallenberg probably the lamest handle. What'sWhat's? The movie called Amarosa should be
(30:07):
out sometime in um late twenty twentythree, twenty twenty four. Awesome man,
looking forward to it. Well,thank you so much for coming on
the show. That is the podcastfor today. As always, if you're
enjoying the show, please throw usa five star rating on Apple Podcasts.
That is the best way you cansupport the podcast. You can write a
written review too, if you're feelingextra generous that I'll do like a backflip.
(30:27):
We really appreciate that, and subscribefor a future episodes. Until next
time, by h
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