055 - Todd Keisling Interview – Writing Dread, Grief, and Horror in The Sundowner’s Dance - Weird Reads

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to the Weird Reader podcast, an extension of
Jason's Weird Reads found on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome, Welcome to Weird Reads.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm Jason White, your host, and this week I am
talking to somebody I've talked to before, but it's been
a very long time since we've talked. That is Todd Keesling.
Todd Keesling is a two time Bramstoker Award nominated writer
known for such titles as Devil's Creek, scan Lines, Cold Black,
and Infinite and his latest novel, The Sundowners Dance. Two

(00:48):
of his previous works received University of Kentucky All's Wald
Research and Creativity Prize for the for Creative Writing in
two thousand and two and two thousand and five. Additionally,
his novel The Luminal Man was a finalist for the
Indie Book Award and Horror Suspense in twenty thirteen. He
resides Pennsylvania with his family. Welcome to the show, Todd.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thanks for having me man all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
It has like I was looking well. The last time
we spoke was was for the Darkness d Wells podcast,
and I think it was probably around twenty seventeen, somewhere
around there. I can't look it up because it's it's dead, like, oh,
there's only about ten episodes that have survived.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah. Happened since then? Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
But I think the last time we talked, if from
my memory serves me correctly, I think we were discussing
something that you were doing with Crystal Lake Publishing at
the time.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, yeah, something like that. Anyway, that would have been
ugly little things my first collection.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Oh maybe it was that. Yeah, yeah, I could see
it being that. Yeah. Absolutely. So how have you been
since then? It's been a long road.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, it has. A lot has happened in since the
Crystal Lake days. I'm good, you know, as with anybody,
I think, you know, ups and downs, but it's been
a wild ride for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
You've released quite a bit since then, Yeah, quite a bit.
I mean you have your second short story collection, which
is called Black and Infinite, that came out a couple
of years ago or it was twenty twenty three. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So how has that been doing?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Like, uh, well, it was doing well until I had
to pull the books from Cemetery Dance.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Oh right, yeah, I forget I forgot all of.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Them that Yeah. For the for the listeners, who aren't familiar.
I had some issues with the publisher of Cemetery Dance
and we decided to part ways.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
And this was fairly recently, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Uh, Yeah, it was a little over a month ago,
I think. But the good news is that my Cemetery
Dance titles, which are Devil's Creak and Cole Black and Infinite,
already have a new home. Bad Hand Books will be
publishing them in the spring of next year.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Excellent. Well, congratulations on finding a new home for them.
Thank you, and I wish you the best of luck
in regards to that. I was listening in preparation for
this interview. I was listening to a couple of interviews
and whatnot, and I remember what stuck out, and one
thing was that you said that you get excited about

(03:46):
people reading your new work. And I had to wonder, like,
do you ever feel nervous too, like maybe people won't
understand what.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Like especially different? Yeah. Yeah, I was super nervous about
the Sundowners Dance. The week before it released. I was
a nervous wreck. And I was just so stressed out,
not just because of the release, because of you know,
personal things going on. And it was a huge relief

(04:18):
when it released, and people have been reacting so positively
to it, and some people are saying it's the best
thing I've written yet. And trust me, I was nervous
as hell because it is vastly different from my other stuff.
And I mean I get nervous before any release because

(04:40):
you never know how people are going to react. It's like, well,
will people get it? Will they not? Is this the
one that's going to break out of you know, the
indie world and get readers from outside that sphere. And
that's always the goal, is to just reach as many
peop pole as possible. And you know, I've been pretty

(05:05):
fortunate in that, you know, most of my work is
generally reviewed fairly. Well, I haven't had a miss yet,
if you can call it that. I'm sure that will
happen at some point in the future, because it's you know,
not everyone other than is going to be a banger
no matter how hard I tried. Yeah, but with this

(05:27):
one in particular, it has continued to surprise me as
the you know, days go on from release. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
The reason why I ask is because I was writing
way back in twenty ten and twelve and I released
a short story collection, and then I kind of took
like an eight year hiatus because I was working this
job that just sucked all my energy and my life
from me. And I finally got out of that job.
Now I'm writing again, and I've released a couple of

(05:58):
things since switching jobs. But I have a couple more
things coming out that are vastly different, and I'm afraid
of how audience reaction will be to that, because like
the other stuff was fun, like nasty, gory horror, the
next two that I plan on releasing anyway, are pretty

(06:21):
serious and and maybe a little more well written.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
If that makes any sense. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, you write a lot of short stories as well.
Do you have a preference. Do you prefer writing short
stories or do you like writing longer stories?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
So I don't feel like I read a lot of
short stories, but you know, I appreciate the moote of
confidence there. I I like short fiction for the gratification
of you know, I only had to spend a week
putting this thing together and it's done, or a draft

(07:00):
of it's done meanwhile, versus long form stuff that can
take months or years. But so I like short stories
in that respect, but writing short stories is infinitely harder,
I think, than long form because you only have like
a set amount of you know, word real estate. Two

(07:26):
build the world, you know, and bring your characters to
life and have a plot that actually you know, can
get in and get out and it can you know,
in that confinement and have it be punchy and you know,
hopefully knock the reader's socks off. Whereas novel you have

(07:49):
time and space to develop everything. Yeah, and so there
are aspects of writing short stories that I like for
the brevity of it. But everything I write always has
a bigger picture in my head, and writing novels allows
me to indulge that more so, I I think, I

(08:16):
I enjoy writing long form, I don't enjoy writing short
form as much, but I find that the result is
often better than my long.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Form as in like more, as in like more satisfying.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Uh. I mean, short stories are an exercise of basically
like taking yourself and putting you on your a game.
Whether you like it or not, you don't really have
a choice because every word matters. Whereas you know, writing

(08:58):
a novel, you your words have more time and room
to breathe, and you can you know, refine that and
whittle that down. Short stories, you don't necessarily always have
that luxury because usually if I'm writing a short story,
it's because someone asked me to or I agreed to
for a publication, and you know, I don't have a

(09:21):
huge turnaround time. I don't have, you know, I would
say turnaround time is probably the biggest thing for me
because I tend to take years to construct stories in
my head. And like we'll get into that with Sundowners
and stuff. But you know, Devil's Creek is another example

(09:41):
where you know, I had the idea for Devil's Creaking,
they had for like over a decade, and you know,
it took years for me to get to the point
where I felt confident enough that I could write it.
Short fiction, on the other hand, is where you know
an editor might come to you and say, hey, will
you write something for me and you didn't six weeks. Yeah,

(10:02):
And it's like it's a different mindset, but it also
forces you to kind of be more selective in your
language and how the story is told in everything, and
it's a different frame of mind that is more difficult

(10:22):
for me to get into, I think. But you know
that's from the technical perspective, you know, as the as
an author, you know, I'll do either one, Like I
can switch, you know, to to write short stuff for
long form. But you know, if if I had my preference,
I would probably just do the long form stuff. But

(10:45):
short fiction is a nice little exercise, yea, to kind
of sharpen you a little bit, you know, for the
longer stuff.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
I like what you said there about taking a long
time to write a longer piece of story because you
have the idea. I don't know if it's similar to
what I go through because I'll have an idea in
my head and I don't know exactly maybe where it
needs to go when I first attempt to write it
and you get part way through, maybe you finish the manuscript,

(11:14):
but something feels off about it, so you keep approaching it.
And do you do that too, like where you just
keep coming back to a story that just doesn't feel
like it's working until you get it right.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah. Absolutely. I have folders in my files for stories
that are still unfinished that, you know. I mean, Sundowners
Dance began like that. You know. There were multiple times
where I tried to write Devil's Creek and if it

(11:49):
wasn't working, I would just put it aside, save it
for later, and come back to it when I felt ready.
So yeah, I absolutely do that. You know, I don't.
I've never not done that, I think because it's I
might think that I'm ready for a story, but the

(12:09):
story's not ready yet. Yeah, that's a good way of
putting it. I like that.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
I remember when you were writing Devil's Creek. She used
to post updates about it on Facebook a lot, and
I remember you kept putting the word count so far
in it, and I remember you'd be like, Man, this
one's getting long.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's gonna kill me. My My professional goal for the
rest of my life is to never write anything as
long as Devil's Freak? Did you did I.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Have? I'll be going back to that actually a bit,
because it kind of ties into some of the questions
I have about the Sundowners Dance. But before we get
into the Sundowners Dance, I do want to go into
a little bit about your Southland mythos. Can you tell
us what the Southland mythos are?

Speaker 2 (13:07):
So I haven't actually worked up like a pitch for
what the Southland is, and you know, so what I'm
I say that to say that, I don't have any
sexy way of you know, putting it, you know, in
one or two sentences. So this is going to be
a rambly answer, and I apologize. I like grand So

(13:30):
the Southland mythos is my sandbox that I've created for myself.
It's stories that predominantly exist in the Appalachian region of
the United States, Eastern US, primarily Kentucky, some Tennessee, West Virginia, Pennsylvania.

(13:53):
I'm not really as familiar with the Carolinas, so I
haven't gone there yet in fiction, but there is a
story that I wrote for an anthology several years ago
that is it's also the first story in Cold Black
an infinite called Midnight in the Southland, and it's about

(14:15):
a It introduces a radio personality and along the same
lines as like Art Bell from Coast to Coast am.
His name is Gus Guthrie. He is a radio DJ
or was. He passed away in two thousand and two
and so also the nineties in Kentucky and the surrounding regions,

(14:42):
he discussed and took calls from people who have experienced
strange things in the area, and he basically referred to
the phenomena as the Southland. So on one level, that's
what the Southland is, as it comes from this radio
program called Midnight in the Southland. But in the larger

(15:05):
scheme of things, it is my my contribution to a
larger cosmic horror pantheon, namely Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos as a
thought and you know, all of his gods and stuff
that he created in his fiction. I grew up reading Lovecraft,

(15:26):
but I could never relate to the setting because it
was all in New England that I'd never been out
of Kentucky before. So I started building this sandbox that
I could base my fiction in with its own set
of rules and pantheon of gods, but it is adjacent

(15:46):
to Lovecraft's own mythos. They exist in the same universe, essentially,
thank you, Thank you, public domain. So that's kind of
my in my head, that's a bit of what the
Southland myth thos is. It's, you know, all these different

(16:09):
stories that are all in this in the in the region,
and that all these strange things that happen in said
stories are can be traced back to something I can't
tell you yet because it would be a massive spoiler
for what I have planned down the road. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, Now, how did you develop the mythos? Was it
like you found some similarities that kept repeating in your work.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Or uh, it was an accident. Yeah, Like Devil's Creek
is the centerpiece of the mythos currently. But I didn't
know it was called the Southland myth Thos when I
wrote that book Nice Midnight in the Southland is what
really kind of brought it to life a little bit,

(16:59):
and calling it the Southland Mythos just made sense. But no,
it wasn't planned at the time. But now now that
I have a better grasp of what it is and
how everything connects. Everything I'm doing going forward, you know

(17:21):
will exist in the Southland Mythos of some kind in
some form or fashion.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's really cool. I also like how it's kind of
related to lovecraft mythos. How do you create your own
without sort of not copying what Lovecraft did?

Speaker 2 (17:43):
I wish I had a good answer. It's mostly just imagination.
I you know, I think about what I would imagine
a cosmic entity would look like, or how it would
operate or why it would operate here, And I also

(18:05):
try to figure out ways that it would make sense
for it to be in Appalachia. And for me, the
biggest connection there is because Appalachia is like oldest mountain
range on the planet. It predates fossil record, like it's not.

(18:25):
It's so the mountains in Appalachia are round it because
they've been weathered over time. And you know, if anything
were to any cosmic entity would be here, it would
most likely be you know, have something to do with
the Appalachian Mountain Range.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean there's already like a lot of
weird stories that are attached to that Appalachia, you know,
history and even current events.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah. So, you know, I look at Appalachia much like
Lovecraft looked at Antarctica, for you know, at the Mountains
of Madness. It's this ancient area that has a lot
of history and is foreign to a lot of people.

(19:18):
But differences. It's not a you know, it's not a
desert of ice. It is a lush, vibrant region where
weird ship always happens, where the earth is sour maybe
at some part.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Now, can you tell us what the Sun Downers Dance
is about? And how does Sundowners Dance fit into your methods?

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Sure, so the Sundowners Dance. We pitched that as the
movie Cocoon meets Lovecrafts The Color out of Space. That's
the elevator pitch. It is the story of a recent
retired widower who is mourning the loss of his wife.

(20:13):
He decides to downsize after he retires and to get
away from a lot of the memories in their house
they had together, so he buys a place in this
over fifty five retirement community up in the Poconos called
Fairview Acres. And it's weird for him from the get go.

(20:37):
He hates his neighbors. They're all very they're not acting
their age, so to speak. They are partying every night.
Hears footsteps crossing his rooftop every night, and it gets
stranger and stranger and far more sinister as the story
goes along. Can't tell you how it ties into the

(21:02):
myth though, because that's a major spoiler.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, before we continue, I do want to say that
I thoroughly enjoyed this book.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Thank you. It's it's very well done.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
I really enjoy reading horror stories though with elderly protagonists,
and I'm assuming you do as.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Well, because you really nabled it. I feel thank you,
thank you.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Now some understands was supposed to be a short story,
but it kept getting longer on you, uf you continued
to resist writing it. From my understanding, what was it
that kept you writing it?

Speaker 2 (21:48):
So let's touch upon the resistance aspect first that because
that leads into why I kept writing it. Initially, I
started writing it like it's not too long after I started,
after I had finished up to the first draft the

(22:09):
Devil's Creek, and that's the longest thing I've ever written,
and I don't want to write anything that long ever again.
So writing a short story felt like a good palette cleanser,
you know. Yeah. And then I started developing these characters
and this neighborhood of people, and I realized that shit,

(22:31):
this wants to be longer. Put pumped the brakes, put
this in a folder, let's work on something else. And
I went back to it initially because I got invited
to an anthology where it would have been a good
fit if it could be contained in five thousand words.

(22:53):
So I initially went back to it too, you know,
some years later, with the hope of salaging like the
seed of the story and just make turning it into
a short story. But as I kept reading it and
revisiting some of the you know, those familiar scenes and

(23:14):
thinking about the characters again, I realized, Okay, this, this
is going to be a novella at least. So I
pursued it under that, you know, with that intense Okay,
this is a novella. I'm going to write a novella.
It's only going to be a novella. It's not going
to be longer than forty thousand worms. And then while

(23:39):
writing it, my wife had a cancer scare and there
was a lot of a lot of things were uncertain,
and I got really depressed, and I was kind of
clinging to the book, to what became the book in
order to deal with a lot of the scariest things

(24:03):
that we, you know, we were having to go through
while she was waiting on you know, biopsy results, and
you know, the general silence that you wait from you know,
you live in between the time that you understand that
that you have something in your body that has to
be biopsy until the moment that you get the call

(24:25):
and you you know, get the results of you know,
said biopsy. So for about two and a half weeks,
I was I was in it. I was pretty caught
up in my own fears, and I had the book
to keep me anchored to reality. I think if not,

(24:49):
I probably would have had a nervous breakdown, to be honest. Yeah,
it was a tough time, and but that's why when
it crossed that line and I realized, Okay, this isn't
a novel of this actually is a book. Yeah, you know,
I kind of embrace it because it helped. It gave

(25:13):
me an outlet for all the multuous things that were,
you know, swirling around in my brain at the time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
You mentioned that in your afterward, and I'm happy to
say that things turned out Okay, Yes.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yes, she just had her screening a couple of months ago.
She's all clear for the year. She goes back next
year or another screening, and yeah, Awkwood and everything's fine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Did you find because you said that it helped anchor
you and keep you going, did you find that it
was also sort of maybe a dark meditation on what
would happen if things were.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
To go south? Yeah? Absolutely, it It was my writing.
The book was my way of processing everything and coming
to terms with everything. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
In your Sundowners Dance, you also mentioned, and you mentioned
here in the interview, that it was meant to be
a short story, and you started working on it soon
after Devil's Creek, and then you put it away, and
then you went back to it because you said that
you weren't ready to start another novel yet. So that
made me think, because I've experienced this too, do you

(26:31):
find that writing novels exhausts your creativity sometimes?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah? Absolutely. I spent all of last year writing a novel,
and I was, let me think about this. I finished that.
I wrote a really short story for Weird Tales. I

(26:58):
wrote that story at the very end of last year,
and then I didn't write anything until like March of
this year. I basically had three months where I just
had to recuperate. And that's h I find it. It
gets harder every time I do it. And that's that's

(27:21):
a me thing. I know some authors who you know,
it's it's not difficult at all. They can sit down
and crank out, you know, a story every couple of
days if they really wanted to. But for me, I
have to be older, I get especially I have to
consider my mental battery.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
You know, in the time since we last talked Jason.
I mean, I find out I'm on the spectrum. I
have ADHD, I have severe depression, I have severe anxiety.
You know, I have all these things. And I had
to start thinking about I had to start thinking about
the time I spend working on something, on a single thing,

(28:05):
I have to consider, you know, I have to be
more cognizant of how much shame I'm spending, because there's
always a toll I have to pay. So if I'm
focused on a single creative project for say six hours
in a day, well I'm gonna need almost equal amount
of time to come down from that, you know. I

(28:27):
gone are the days where I could just you know,
work until two or three in the morning and then
go right to sleep. Yeah, if I do that, now,
I'm going to be awake for two or three hours
trying to wind my brain down before I can rest,
and it just throws the rest, you know, the following
day completely off the rails, you know. And so when

(28:49):
I say it gets harder or the older I get,
it's because of that. Yeah, it's because you know, I
have to think about, all right, if I'm going to today,
how long do I need to write? You know, how
how long do I want to write for? And then
I kind of have to plant other things around that,
not necessarily around the writing itself, but the recuperation after

(29:13):
being created.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
What what do you what do you do to recuperate
and replenish?

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Uh, Sometimes I'll take a nap. Sometimes I'll play a
video game, watch a movie, go outside, take a walk,
anything that isn't creative, Like it's summertime now, so I'll
go outside and mow the grass, you know, something very
autonomous that just gives me time to process my thoughts.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
So do you find that your thoughts are empty? Like
in the creative end, like you're not consciously thinking about things,
But when you go back to it, the answer maybe
that you're looking for is there.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Not necessary empty per se. It's like I kind of
have to divorce myself from the world that I was
living in. Makes sense, you know, I kind of have
to give myself distance. I need to stop thinking about
things in terms of plot threads, and you know, because

(30:19):
it's it's it's strange feeling to go from you know,
living and breathing this world that you are creating with words,
and then going out into the real world and you
start looking at you know, observing and start connecting dots
that aren't really there. It's almost like, oh, I wonder
how that got there. Well, it was probably this, which
you know was caused by this and this, and that's

(30:43):
that's the ADHD in my brain. I think that's it
starts manifesting plot threads that aren't there, and you know,
it's it's an easy way for me to spiral if
I do that, so I try to. It's no different
than like when I do when I do in person events. Now,

(31:04):
you know, I can put on the mask and wear
the stud for a few days at most, but then
I'm gonna be useless for a week after that. It's
a lot of time where I have to like be
alone in the dark and just reduce sensory you know,
input as much as possible. I don't know, it's like

(31:26):
a it's a good question, because I don't I've never
really had to think about it in those terms before.
But mm hmm. It's almost like you have you know,
when you're done, you're just a bundle of raw nerves
and you kind of just have to ease yourself back
into your skin a little bit. Yeah, I can kind

(31:48):
of identify with that, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Another interesting note in in.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
The Uh.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
In the the Afterward is that this Sundowners Dance was
meant to be a collaborative effort with Chad Lutsky, which I, yeah,
no idea about until I read that. How did that happen?

Speaker 2 (32:14):
And then not happen? We like he had been looking for,
you know, someone to write something with. He approached me
about it. I said, hey, I've got this. I guess
this might have been like twenty later in twenty eighteen.
It was after I had put the story away initially

(32:35):
and he approached me, and I said, hey, I've got this,
you know, tell me what you think. And he read
what I had. It was about eleven thousand yards at
the time. He had some suggestions on how to approach
it as a duo. So we basically started over. And
I realized at that point in time, like, there are

(32:58):
certain aspects of you know, to a story I need
to know before I start writing it, and Chad is
entirely a panther and it just wasn't going to work. So, like,
you know, I read a little bit of what he
had and I wasn't really feeling the direction. No, shade
the chat. He's a fantastic writer, and I wish you

(33:19):
would write more. But at the time, you know, I
just I've never collaborated with anybody. I still haven't, I
probably never will because you know, I'm very particular about
my process. Yeah, so that's why it never happened. And
I also just wasn't in the right headspace at the time.

(33:41):
I think if we had, it would have worked better,
as if we had come up with the idea together.
And I think the project was probably doomed from the
start because I we were working on something that I
had already started, so in my head I had preconceived
notions about where it should go. So you can fast

(34:04):
forward to the anthology invite, and I was looking at
the story again. I it basically took the original manuscript
before you know, Chad and I got involved with it
and start you know, basically started over from there. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Chad's awesome. He's been a guest on this show a
few times. It's been it's been a couple of years, though.
I need to get him back on. See you see
what he's doing.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
All right.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Back to uh Sundowners Dance, I have to say I
love the protagonist Jerry because in all honesty, I feel
like I could end up like him, alone and elderly,
grumpy and grieving.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, Jerry is pretty much a reflection of how I
saw myself in my seventies. If I'm if I don't
have my wife to balance me out, yeah, just you know,
isolating and want to be left alone. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
I can totally identify with that because I can be
the same way. I often kind of shut out the
world and just crawl into my own head where you
know where sometimes I hide, maybe a little too long.
And I also felt that you nailed what grief and

(35:26):
depression is like. I also suffer from major depression. It's
something I've had all my life, and there may be
some other issues there that have gone undiagnosed, but it
costs a lot of money to go get diagnosis for
those things, so I've just I've just left it. But

(35:48):
I also like how you nailed how it's like being introverted.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, that was the aspects of introversion with Jerry. Uh,
it was more of a convenience to the story to
explain why he's you know, why he is the way
he is. But once I made commitment to that character trait.

(36:16):
You know, I wanted to at least get it right.
And I'm well adept at being an introvert. And you know,
when people think of introverts, they think, oh, they just
don't want to be around people, and that that is true,
but they also don't understand and this gets lost in

(36:36):
translation a lot of times, especially in other media like
movies where you know somebody's alner. They never touch upon
the cost that must be paid by the introvert if
they are forced into a social situation. M Like, I
can be social. I can, you know, like I mentioned

(36:59):
at person events like conferences, I can do that, but
it's you know, there is a proportional amount of time
where I need to be alone after that event is over. Yeah, like,
I can't. The world becomes too much. It's like I've
become too sensitive to everything around me and I have

(37:21):
to pull back again. And you know it, it was
harder to understand when I was younger, when I didn't
have the context of everything that's going on up here.
You know, now I get it. You know, I have
a social battery and it depletes way faster than most

(37:44):
neurotypical people and that's never going to change. In fact,
it's probably going to get worse.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
I Yeah, I think honestly, it'll get worse because that's
what I've experienced. When when I was younger, I could, Uh,
I could I hang out with people a lot longer
and not feel as depleted as I do now. When
just hanging out in a room full of people that
I work with for an hour, how that exhausts me
and then I can't focus on anything after.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Honestly, don't know how I worked in corporate for as
long as I did. I've been free lanced one hundred
for five years now and the longer I'm you know,
working for myself. And whenever I look back and think like,
I don't know how the hell I did that for
thirteen years? Yeah, and it, you know, because no wonder

(38:42):
I was fucking depressed, No wonder I was, you know,
exhausted all the time because I was having to be
on for ten hours a day every day.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
One thing I like about the job I have now
I'm generally alone. Uh so that's great, But they're periods
of time where you're in that room of people and
uh and everyone's laughing and joking around, which is great,
but it has, like you said, a cost to it.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, I I also want to talk about Arthur because
I found him to be an interesting antagonist. Arthur, he
doesn't come across quite like in your face as a
bad guy. He just wants Jerry to like participate. He does, definitely. Yeah,

(39:35):
But but you know, I like how Jerry kind of
hates him right away, and and that makes the reader
kind of hate him too, Like I don't just like
when I was reading Arthur's nothing overly overly bad about
him when you first meet him, but you you know,
and your skill as a writer makes us suspect him anyway.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
And I think it's because of Jerry. Yeah. So when
it came to coming up with an antagonist to Jerry,
you know, I needed a foil, someone who, like, what
is the worst possible person that an introvert could encounter,
A fucking extrovert, you know. Yeah, And there's nothing worse

(40:21):
than a very charismatic, extroverted person who has hell bent
on having you be included in something. Uh. And you
know I wanted that dynamic. I wanted that friction because
it was the only way, it was the perfect way

(40:43):
to meaning I thought It was the perfect way to
not just exacerbate the tension a little bit, but also
just to really put a contrast on how introverted Jerry
is in this story. So you know, that's that's kind

(41:05):
of where Arthur came from. He was I needed him
to be like a force of nature in a lot
of ways, where everything he stands for is an opposition
to what you know, our hero stands for.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah. One thing I really enjoyed about reading this book
is that you leave little easter eggs for readers, especially
like if you follow social media at all, there's always
writers that come up, and it's because we're all reading
these writers, you know, writers like say Cosby s A.

(41:42):
Cosby makes an appearance, and so does Land Lansdale. And
when Jerry's remembering his life with Abby because she read
a lot of books, I just I wanted to point
that out because I love this aspect of the book.
Is this something you do with a lot of your work?
Do you just like because I don't remember it before.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
But uh no, like I started doing it once I
had you know, south it's all Southland related stuff, Like
it's it's uh, are you talking about just name dropping? Like?

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, name dropping authors because it's it's always awesome to
see I.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Mean, I have, it's not you know, it's something I
just it would the way I ended up using Sean's name,
you know, when you know one of Abby's books that
Jerry picks up and starts reading, you know I had,
you know, I had Blacktop Wasteland on my desk mm hmm.
And anytime I anytime I'm writing in a character or

(42:44):
a thing comes up that needs a name, I usually
just look around, yeah, and like you know, or if
I need a character name for somebody that isn't you know,
it's just a supporting character. You know, what song am
I listening to? Who's the singer for that band? Or
who's the drummer? I'll pick a name out of the

(43:06):
hat essentially. But like, you know, Lansdale's written some crime stuff,
and you know, Cosby is kind of the you know,
the the the guy right now for crime fiction, and
you know, it just seemed like a good a good fit.
Who's Who's contemporary, Who's classic? You know that would make

(43:30):
sense to throw out in this story. Beyond that, I
really don't put a lot of thought into it, to
be honest, awesome.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Oh, did any of the characters like, uh, you you
kind of mix uh. I think you write mostly from
the seat of your pants, but you do like very
like basic outline, like you know where the story's going.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, Like I need a beginning. I need to know
where it's going to end up, even if it changes
along the way. Yeah, it's a posts and I need
a title.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
I like that it changes even if you have an
idea where it's going. So my next question is, did
any of the characters surprise you with how they developed
during the writing process of this?

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, Lisa Dunnelly, Catherine's daughter. Yes, she was only going
to be just a nurse, and until until the moment
that she showed up at Jerry's doorstep, that was you know,
I had it. I was right on track to make

(44:36):
it a novella, and then she showed up and it
completely changed the whole outlook and of a plot because
he was too strong of a character to just be
the nurse. Yeah, and you know, she's very much a
reflection of her mother in a lot of ways, and

(44:57):
I couldn't. She was too intriguing for me to just
sweep her under the rug. And but by bringing her
to you know, front and center or stage in the book,
it meant, you know, it kind of broadened the horizon
a lot in a lot of ways and changed things
plot wise. So Lisa was definitely a surprise. Catherine, Catherine

(45:23):
was a surprise. A lot of the characters grew organically,
you know. Starting out, I knew, I knew who Jerry
was and who he's named after, my late grandfather as
a matter of fact, So he was kind of my
model at first, you know, and that changed over the

(45:48):
many drafts because Jerry quickly became a reflection of myself
that I saw, you know, in another thirty years. Yeah. Arthur, Arthur.
Initially when I started writing the story, Arthur was just
a big your head, you know, he was he didn't
really have any depth. So that also grew into something

(46:15):
more sinister. Arthur's wife, Gladys, she was a surprise, a
fun surprise.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
She was a fun surprise to read too. Actually, all
the characters are kind of fun in their own way
because you never know what's going to happen, right, But
this this story has like I don't know, it's just
I didn't know where it was going, and I it
was pleasantly surprised by the end, honestly, thank you.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, it's like the ending is.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
I don't want to say it's it's not too dark,
but it does end on kind of a dark note.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
But I yeah, the ending, it couldn't have ended any
other way. Like that was always the That was always
the end that I had in mind. Aspects of it changed,
but I knew it was going to be a bit
of a tear jerker if I if I did my

(47:18):
job correctly, and it seems like I did because everybody
comments on the ending.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Man, the beginning had me, like, you know, wiping up
my eyes too, just with what Jerry was going through
made me think of me in my own life, you know, like,
what what am I going to do? Because no one
might It's probably a terrible thing to say, but I
was going to say, knowing my luck, she'll go first.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yeah. Don't don't tempt the universe like that. No, I
don't want to tempt the universe like that.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah. And another interesting fact about this book is that
it was influenced by the movie The Burbs, which is
a favorite of mine.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Oh I love the Burbs. Yeah. When I was doing the.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Dark Nest Wells podcast, with my old co host Michael Schutz.
We did an episode on The Burbs, and uh, that
was a lot of like I've seen it a few
times and I owned the movie, but it's a lot
of fun. I can see something like some interesting comparisons.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Uh. I was spitballing ideas with some friends a few
weeks ago about you know, if this, if this were
to get option for a film, wh would you want
to see play? And I'm like, well, Tom Hanks has
to be Jerry, Yeah, come on, that would be perfect.
But you know, I even mentioned that the Klopex in
the book. You know that's like one of Abigail's favorite

(48:43):
films is The Urbs, and it like the Neighbor. The
neighbor's dog is named Queenie. Uh. You know that's taken
from the Verbs, and it's just a great film of
a social dynamic that occurs in a close, semi closed

(49:06):
pocket of humanity. M And I look at the Verbs
and I also see like dynamics that emerge in an
office setting. You know, you've got the guy that everybody
looks to to kind of lead the pack. You've got
the guy who's overly militant, you have the neighbor who's
always causing fucking trouble. You've got the weird people that

(49:30):
everybody kind of avoids because they don't want to talk
to them, and you've got the one asshole who lets
his dog out in everybody else's yard. You know it.
You kind of to me it was interesting and to
to take that dynamic and try to replicate that in fiction. Yeah,

(49:53):
that's where that's where Gary came from. That's where Brad
Matilda Scott came from. Uh, you know, they were all
homages to characters from the Burbs, you know, And yeah,
The Burbs is just a fantastic fucking movie. And I'm
gonna it is always champion that film.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, it's funny. It's been a few years since I
probably when we did that episode on Darkness Wells that
I last saw it, so it's not fresh in my memory.
But I wasn't thinking of The Burbs until I heard
you talking about it, and I was like, oh shit, yeah, awesome.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Excuse me, gotta tickle that won't go away all right now.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
I was wondering because you do, right, like, this is
what we haven't really talked about the cosmic horror, and
I kind of wanted to keep that a little under
wraps because it is it is mentioned that it is
cosmic core, but I think if we're going too far
into that will kind of ruin you know, Yeah, that

(51:00):
comes with it. So I was wondering, what is it
that And this isn't your first rodeo with cosmic cor either,
So I'm wondering what is it that draws you to
writing cosmic corer and weird fiction.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
I think it has to do with worldview and just
my view on existence. You know. I I started reading
Lovecraft around the same time that I started reading Politic
and I you know, being introduced to CAMU in high school,

(51:34):
Stranger and the Existentialists, you know, philosophy love Crafts, you know,
as an extension of that kind of formative reading I
was doing at the time. So I was like sixteen seventeen.

(51:55):
Lovecraft's influence and the world that he created kind of
reflects you know, if I could imagine God, a god
or a you know, alien being that it's so ridiculously
huge that we are but ants at its feet. You know,

(52:18):
it wouldn't care, or maybe it would care, and it
would care too much, and you know, dabble in the
affairs of humanity, or humanity is just a pest that
can be swept aside, you know, when it decides it
wants to, you know, return home. So like I kind

(52:41):
of I fear this isn't making sense, but I I
I attribute a lot of like the mythos to an
existentialist way of thinking. It's like, you know, it doesn't
really matter what's going to happen, because you know, because
it was going to rise from Layah and this drive

(53:01):
everybody mad, or in a few billionaeres, the Sun's going
to explode and engulf the planet and none of this
is going to fucking matter. Yeah, That's That's always been
my draw to cosmic horror because it's we are so
small in the scheme of things, We're so small, and

(53:24):
I like cosmic horror to me feels like it keeps
it keeps the human ego and check in a lot
of ways, because we can get so wrapped up in
all of this like all of this is matters, this
is priority one, when really none of this fucking matters,

(53:45):
and you know, we are literally a spec in a big,
wide universe. And to me, that's that's why I gravitate
toward cosmic horror. I think. I'm sure there's you know,
a psycho you know, a psychological reason probably, but it

(54:09):
I'm drawn to it because of that. It's the it's
how we're you know, we're so small in the grand
scheme of things. But something I like to do in
my cosmic horror, not necessarily cosmic or in general, but
my approach to it is to look at the human
element of that. It's like, okay, well, now that we

(54:33):
know that we are, you know, none of this matters,
how do we continue? Mm hm? And you know, to
to borrow to reference Cameu again philosophy, especially with the myth.
Well then why don't we just like end our lives? Well,
it's because the act of living isn't in itself a rebellion.

(54:57):
It's that goes back to the mythus and how one
must imagine Sis is happy even though he's been condemned
for all eternity, to roll a stone up the mountain
and watch it fall down at the end of the day.
You find happiness in the action, in the doing, and
the living, even though we all know we're gonna die.

(55:17):
And in a lot of ways, the way I look
at it is it gives meaning to our lives, knowing
that we have a set you know, end date. So
it's like, okay, well then don't dally, do what you
want to do, be happy. Yeah, And so I like
to explore that that explore that human element in cosmic

(55:42):
or so, you know, things are pretty dire toward the
end of Sundowners Dance, but and this is a good example.
I think, you know, we have the climax, it's really
fucking dark, it's really fucking scary, it's very cosmic. But

(56:03):
then in the epilogue we scale back down and we're
looking at Jerry and Catherine m and even though they
their days are limited, what are they doing to make
the best of it? And that's kind of what that
all symbolizes with you know, how they end up again

(56:25):
in the epilogue kind being very careful to what to
say here. Yeah, I don't want to spoil it.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Yeah, I don't want to spoil it either, but I
do want to say that I enjoyed the epilogue because
there is there is like maybe, uh, you know, some
joy there in all the darkness. There's a little bit
of joy. And I think that's the point right there,
when when because I totally agree with everything you just said. Like,

(56:53):
this is stuff I think about all the time, how
nothing really matters. But in a sense, it does matter
because you're existing it, You're you're you're the one living
through it, right. But the joy what you said, is
the joy is in the going through it and finding
you know, finding the joy in the present moment basically. Yeah,

(57:19):
And and despite all the darkness, like because all this
could end right now, or it could end tomorrow, but
right now we're alive and we're talking, and and then
maybe we're going to go create something or go watch
a movie whatever, but we can do what we want
and and find fulfillment and enjoyment while we're while we're here. Yeah,

(57:41):
And I think that's what the end kind of the
epilogue kind of kind of stress. I wouldn't say stresses,
but it mentions. It does that make sense to you?

Speaker 2 (57:51):
It does? Yeah, So you know that. Plus I think
large tides, you alien gods are pretty fucking cool. So
that's very Yeah. I mean that, that to me is

(58:12):
you know, one of the reasons I'm ron a cosmic horror.
It's just it's the it's the aspects of it, you know,
the dread, the the existential dread that that comes from it,
because I deal with existential dread every fucking day of
my life and always have and always will. Uh yeah,

(58:35):
it's just a that is my preferred subgenre of horror.
Mhm for that all. For that reason, do.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
You think in order to write cosmic horror that you
kind of have to have that sort of mindset? Uh?
Maybe even like philosophy.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I mean, do you need it? No, it's probably a
good idea to have an understanding of it, just to
give you know, a better grasp of what you're writing about.
But at the same time, you know, if you're just
writing a surface level story about the old ones returning,

(59:18):
you don't it doesn't need that extra philosophical angle at all.
You don't need that, but it does enhance it. I think,
I take Legotti isn't necessarily cosmic horror per se, Like
I kind of look at Legotti in fiction is more

(59:39):
nihilistic as opposed to existentialists. But you know, you don't
need the philosophy you know too of you know, you
don't need the anti navalist philosophy that Legotti himself pretty
much you know, adheres to. But if you read his

(01:00:00):
fiction understanding what that is and understanding where he's coming from,
it puts a whole new angle on it, and it
allows you to appreciate it more.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
I think, yeah, I can agree with that for sure,
all right. From interviewing writers for over ten years now,
I have found that there are usually two ways a
story comes to a writer for the first time. It's

(01:00:32):
either the what if scenario actually three times, not two,
but three, either the what if scenario, or the characters
come and tell the writer what happened to them, And
sometimes it's a mixture of both. How do you feel
stories typically come to you like when they first introduce themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Or itself?

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
It's different every time. It seems like like sometimes it's
the characters was that speaks up? Or sometimes it's a
scenario that I read about in the news or something,
or and from that point what if aspect kicks in.
What if this happened when this obviously horrible thing event transpired?

(01:01:20):
What if it wasn't this but this? And you start
thinking about you know, you start connecting dots in your
head and or I do. But it's never the same
every time, Like Sundowners dance. For example, the seed of
that story began with a single line, the worms of

(01:01:41):
my brain dance at nightfall. I wrote it down it
popped into my head. I was having another shitty day
at work, and I felt like my head was just
full of bees and everything was humming, and I was overstimulated,
and I couldn't just go sit in the dark a
few hours. I had to stay in the office and

(01:02:02):
be on So this thought occurred to me, the worms
in my brain dance at nightfall. I don't know why.
At the earliest I can trace like the concept back
to a comic strip I read when I was in
college that is no longer online. The comic was called
The Parking Lot Is Full, and it was depicted this

(01:02:26):
college professor at a chalkboard writing this complex math formula
and all the students aren't paying attention. And the humor
was that he was talking about, you know, there are
worms in my brain, please send help. He is actually
writing that, but because nobody's paying attention, his cry for
help goes un answered. So I'm assuming that's where the

(01:02:54):
worms in my brain dance at nightfall comes from, because
otherwise I have no idea. It just popped in there, yeah,
and I wrote it down, and I had separately been
thinking about, you know, the neighborhood I live in, and
you know, just how neighborly I wanted to be, because

(01:03:16):
I you know, we had just moved into our house
and you know, I'm not a social butterfly, So how
neighborly do I want to be? And what if? What
if all the neighbors are into something weird, and what
if they're worshiping the moon or something? And then you know,
I've carried that with the line that popped in my

(01:03:39):
head and now here we are seven years later.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
It's kind of interesting how the unconscious mind works, like yeah,
because like things always just kind of pop up that way, right,
Like two separate things suddenly become one, and sometimes there's
a third and the fourth. And then after when you're done,
you're looking at what you what you've done, and it's
like holy, like shit, Like I was thinking about all

(01:04:07):
these different things and they all just collide into this
one story or or yeah right, yeah. I love that
about like human existence because like no other animal that
we're aware of really exists like this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
It's that we're aware of that we're aware of yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Yeah, it's fascinating to me. That's that's kind of like
my roundabout way of asking how did you come up
with the story. But the reason why I like asking
that question is because I'm very interested in how the
unconscious mind works towards creativity. I think most people have
a creative side to them to one degree or another.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
But yeah, writers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
And artists, musicians are I think a little bit a
little bit different breed because.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
They tend to attack the you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Know there there are a little more directly. Sometimes it
depends on what we're talking about here too. Yeah, all right,
so I think that does it for the Sundowners dance
before we go though, I do ask this of all
my writers lately anyway, if you don't have an answer,

(01:05:21):
because I forgot to email this to you and so
that's totally my bad. So I can just cut this
out if you want to skip it. But what writer,
horror or otherwise doesn't have to be a horror writer?
Do you feel more people need to be talking about,
like on social media and whatnot, who's getting skipped that
you absolutely love?

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
The first one that comes to mind is Catherine Silva.
She wrote The Undead folk, dead folk, nothing land, wild Fell.
She's a main author. A lot of her stuff deals
with grief and like nature and to some degree it's

(01:06:11):
a little bit folky. Uh. And just you know, she's
an indie author. She's out there doing it entirely on
her own, doesn't have representation, doesn't have a public you know,
a big publisher backing her. She's just doing it all
and I think she deserves more and more recognition for that.

(01:06:31):
Is that Catherine with C or a K, Catherine with
a K?

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Yeah, I spelled it right the first time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
What do you know?

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Is there anyone else that comes to mind?

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Ah? Yeah, I mean Amanda Hedley comes to mind. I
think you know, uh, robotone, Becca Rowlands drawing a blank. Sorry, no,

(01:07:06):
no worries.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
That's why I should have emailed it to your first
but you know you did. You did come up with
some authors, so that's great. So are you able to
talk about what you're working on right now?

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Yeah, to a degree. And I'm working on a short
story that's currently If it turns out the way I hope,
it'll be the origin story for Gus Guthrie, the host
of Midnight in the Southland. Nice that's what I'm currently
working on. I've got until the end of the month

(01:07:41):
to wrap that up and turn that in. After that's done,
I'm diving into notes that my agent gave me for
my next novel, Revelation Road. No publisher for that yet,
but hoping to change that in the near future. It

(01:08:03):
is not necessarily a direct sequel, but it is a
follow up to Devil's Creek. It does I end with
the Sundowner stance, and in a way I can't tell
you how because that's a spoiler. That Revelation Road is
pretty much going to be my main focus for the

(01:08:25):
rest of the year, probably after this story's done.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Nice, I'm looking forward to it. Do you have anything
coming up soon, a short story or otherwise.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Yeah, So, I have a Southland story coming out in
issue three seventy one, a Weird Tales magazine. Pretty excited
to see that in print. That's a bucket list of
mine and to get accepted and into that long history
of that magazine is amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
Absolutely, congratulation, Thank.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
You, thank you. Yeah, I got a story coming out
in that and Tom Dede just announced the lineup for
the Rack two that anthology though. Oh yeah, he's putting out.
I also have a south Land story in that one
called the Woodhill Wet Nurse, and that ties in with
the story from called Black and Infinite called after Birth.

(01:09:24):
That those are the two I have coming out in
the near future. I just showed photos of the omnibus
edition of my Monochrome trilogy three novels. That's uh, that's
going to come out in September. It's a it's a
big boy. It's six hundred and sixty six pages long.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
I saw that on I saw that on a I
forget where Facebook? I think maybe. Yeah. Beautiful coverwork, man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Thank you, thank you. Uh. And also this fall, second
editions of my first collection of The Little Things and also
my first novel at the Final Reconciliation are both being
released in Crystal Lake.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Yeah, so in next year sometime, probably the paperback edition
at Sundowners.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
So there's lots of keysling.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Yeah, there's lots of stuff coming out. You know, it's
kind of familiar stuff for a lot of my longtime fans,
but for newer folks, you know, it would be a
good opportunity for them to dive in.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Yeah, speaking of that, if there's anybody listening who's new
to your work. Where would you direct them What would
you direct them to read first?

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Direct them to read first? Probably Double's Creek. That's probably
the probably the best way to kind of get caught
up on things if you're put off by the side
of that book. I mean, it's over five hundred pages
with Cole Black and Infinite. My second collection, if you

(01:11:03):
can get your hands on it, that does come out
next next year from Bad Hand, but you know, that's
also a good primer. My first collection of The Little
Things is also currently in print, so you can find
that on Amazon or wherever books are sold. But if

(01:11:25):
you can get your hands on Devil's Creek, you know,
from your library, or it's also available in audio, it's
not you know, it's not going away on audio. That
would probably be the my recommendation. That's what I'm mostly
known for.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Excellent Now, final question, where's the best place for readers
to connect with you online to keep up to date
with what you're coming up with?

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
My website, Todd Keasling dot com is I keep that
up to date with news and appearances, upcoming appearances. It's
also where you can sign up for my newsletter, which
is monthly. That's probably your best those two best places.
Beyond that, I am active on blue Sky and Instagram

(01:12:12):
at Toddesling, soe you can find me on social media
and bug me. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Well, I want to give you a big thanks. It's
been a as I said, there's been a lot that's
happened since we last talked, so I appreciate you coming
on and talking with me, and you're always invited to
come back.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
Well, if I ever come at you again saying hey, Todd,
you want to come on my show.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
I hope that you'll accept.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
I'm sure I will, and we'll talk to you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
All right, man, Thanks again.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
That was my conversation with Todd Keasling. I had a
great time talking with Todd. As I said before, we
talked in the late twenty teens, and he was really
cool then, and I'm not too sure why I waited
so long to talk to him again. I think maybe

(01:13:17):
it's just circumstances, because I didn't get this podcast really
rolling again until twenty twenty four, so that is probably it.
But I've been talking to people on the Weird Reads
podcast here for a little while at least. But yeah,
it was nice to connect with him again talk about
what he's been writing, especially The Sundowners Dance. The Sundowners

(01:13:41):
Dance is a really, really awesome book and a spoiler alert,
you will probably see this book on my top ten
at the end of the year. I was pleasantly surprised
with how much I enjoyed reading this book. I didn't
have to force myself to folks on it. It was

(01:14:01):
all right there and every time I went to read it,
it sucked me in and I absolutely love it when
a story will do that, all right. So if you
want to help support the show, it's easy to do.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
You can do it for free. Just go to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
Apple Apple Podcasts, find the show there and leave a
five star review and give it a review while you're there.
That helps Apple spread the word. If they get enough
of that kind of thing, they're more willing to share
my show and that will help the show grow.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
You can also go and rate.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
The podcast on Spotify. If you listen there, you can
give it a star rating there, and I believe you
can comment on each episode, so leave a comment, leave
a question if you want. You can email the show
as well at Weirdreads podcast at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
And will I will answer.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
You can also join the Patreon.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Go to.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
Patreon dot com forward Slash, Jason Underscore white and you
can become a Patreon that. There are a few different
tiers you can join, I believe for let me see here.
I'm looking it up as we speak. I have a

(01:15:33):
terrible memory these days. You can join for free, or
you can join the Weird Reader level, which is six
dollars a month.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
You can join the.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Short Byte sorry, the Short Bytes Club at five dollars
a month, which is for the Stephen King podcast I
also do, and the Weird Friends, which is the smallest one,
the short or the cheapest one at three dollars a month,
and all the money I make on that goes to
making the show better. One thing that I have used

(01:16:06):
the money for was to buy what I used for
the first time on this episode, and that is my
new microphone. So I don't know if you noticed. The
sound quality may have improved a bit. I hope it
did because I put some money towards this microphone.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
So there you go. Thank you for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Until next time, Keep being safe, keep being weird, because weird.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Being weird is very important these days.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
I'll catch you guys on the next podcast.

All Episodes

055 - Todd Keisling Interview – Writing Dread, Grief, and Horror in The Sundowner’s Dance

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}055 - Todd Keisling Interview – Writing Dread, Grief, and Horror in The Sundowner’s Dance