KCAA: Wellness Jocks (Sat, 13 Sep, 2025)

KCAA: Wellness Jocks on Sat, 13 Sep, 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Arguments.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
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(00:22):
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Speaker 3 (00:30):
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Speaker 4 (00:35):
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Speaker 1 (00:44):
Welcome to Wellness Jocks, where Athletes meets Wellness Innovations, starring
Rich Walker and Russ Allen.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
Hi, this is Russ Allen.

Speaker 6 (00:56):
Introduce yourself to Mana's Jordan that I got into fitness
and health coaching from wrestling. I come from a I'm
a short, bald Jewish guy. I come from a very
short Jewish family and my mom was very worried that
my brother and I were gonna get picked on in school.
And she walked into the living room one day. I
was lying on the couch and I was eight years old,

(01:17):
and she said, I'm gonna put you to in wrestling,
and the only wrestling that I knew at that time
was WWE style wrestling. So I remember I looked up
at her and I was like, you want me to
hit someone with a chair, and she was like, no, idiot,
it's the Olympic style wrestling. And so basically I got
very quickly. I fell in love with wrestling. Terrible in school,

(01:38):
I was in a special education. I wasn't good at
taking tests. I had ADHD. I was the black sheep
in my family because everyone else was very good at school, doctors, lawyers, professors,
everyone else's super smart, and I was the not smart one.
But I was very athletic, and so I fell in
love with wrestling. And by the time I got to
high school, I made varsity as a freshman. I beat
a junior out for the varsity spot. And I grew

(02:00):
up just outside of Boston, Massachusetts, a suburb of Boston.
And when I made varsity as a freshman, I was fourteen.
Mainly go up against sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year olds, and
there's big guns, big strength differential, big strengths differential, and
so I was like, I need to figure out how
I can get stronger, because you have to lose weight
when you're wrestling and cutting weight, So how do I
lose weight while getting stronger? I ended up I found

(02:23):
a gym a couple of times over for me, a
town called Newton, Massachusetts. There was a gym that I
reached out to. I wrote a message. I said, hey, listen,
I'll take the trash out, i'll clean the floor, I'll
do anything you want me to do. Just let me
come and learn from you. And had to strength train.
And I was very blessed because number one, they took
me under their wing, they said yes. And number two
is they were unbelievably science based. It was a very

(02:43):
high level, science based facility. And from fourteen years old
that's where I. I interned there and worked there, and
that's how I got involved with strength and conditioning and
nutrition and performance. And I've been doing it since I
was fourteen. It's the only job I've ever had.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
I was a high school wrestler.

Speaker 6 (02:59):
Oh nice, and.

Speaker 5 (03:00):
I unlike yourself, I didn't have a lot of athletic skills.
So high scho football right, and I tell people I
played the position left out. I was sure slow the
whole deal, but I had I made Rudy look good.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
I would say not that kind of good.

Speaker 5 (03:19):
Hey, yeah, but but my vengeance was my older boy
came home one night and he had played baseball and
he said, I went out for wrestling and I had
taught them when they were kids to wrestle. I knew
something and he but he was so strong even though
he wrestle, he pinned every kid for the first.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
It's a great sport. Oh, there's nothing like.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
You're talking about accountability when you oh yeah, and that's it.
There's really nothing between you and that you're back to
that match.

Speaker 6 (03:51):
Can't blame anyone else but yourself. It's no matter what.
It's no no other teammate, no coaches. If you lose,
and that's it. And then it's also it teaching to
be humble, teach to be disciplined, accountable.

Speaker 5 (04:04):
Well, and it's team sport too, so you're one to
the other guys.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yes, you get beat.

Speaker 5 (04:10):
If the team wins, it's okay, but you really you
gotta show.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
You got to come out and make it.

Speaker 5 (04:14):
But I'm sorry, but a freshman wrestler being varsity that
is a big deal, folks.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
You don't know that.

Speaker 6 (04:20):
I was very excited about it. I was very excited
about it and a tough intro into high school wrestling.
By the time I got the junior senior year is good,
but freshman year that was brutal.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
You got through it.

Speaker 5 (04:30):
Yes, you must bring that kind of tenacity to your
training of folks and how do you work that.

Speaker 6 (04:37):
It's interesting when I was younger and a wrestler, and
then from wrestling, I transitioned to powerlifting, and I was
an elate level powerlifter. But my first client when I
was by the time I was sixteen, they let me
take on my first client at this gym. His name
is Fred. He was sixty eight years old at the
time and his only goal was to be able to
pick up his grandson without hurting his shoulders because he

(04:57):
had rotator cuff issues. And there's a difference between liking
working out and liking coaching, two very different things. And
a lot of personal trainers will get into personal training
because they like working out, but they don't like coaching people.
Because when you're a person, when you like working out,
it's easy, you enjoy it. It's fun going to the

(05:18):
gym and exercising. It's not a hard thing for you.
And for me, working out has never been a hard thing.
I really like it. But I love coaching because I
like trying to figure out the puzzle. I like trying
to help people who don't like it and who don't
necessarily understand how to fit it into their life, who
might not have the same level of tenacity that I have.

(05:40):
And so Fred sixty eight rotator cuf issues. He just
wants to pick up his grandson. And for me, that
was when I was like, I want to coach people
because I really cared more about helping Fred achieve his
goals than I did about achieving my goals. It was
the first time, like at fourteen, I wanted to be
an amazing ground and I wanted to look good naked.

(06:01):
That's literal, It's all I cared about. And so for
this guy, like he doesn't tell me about wanting a
six pack, he doesn't tell me about wanting a deadlift
five hundred pounds. He just wants to pick up his
grandkid at fourteen. That gives me a lot of perspective.
And that's like, I love coaching other people. And when
I was really young, I thought I wanted to work

(06:22):
with professional athletes, and I was very fortunate and blessed
I worked with high level baseball players from many different
organizations in the MLB. I are worked with many high
level wrestlers I've worked I've still worked with some high
level jiu jitsu grapplers, but the majority of the people
I work with, ninety eight percent of them are every
day average Joe's average jains people who have to lose

(06:45):
I was literally just on the phone with a guy
who's four hundred and sixty seven pounds and he needs
to lose a couple hundred pounds. I regularly like the
majority of people I work with are people who are
just everyday people who need to improve their life and
their health and their fitness. And I don't take the
biggest loser of pro coach of lose as much as possible,
as quickly as possible, at any cost necessary with berating people.

(07:06):
The research is overwhelmingly clear that does way more harm
than good. When people lose weight like that, they're more
likely to regain it and then more on the back end.
I love going very hard and intense with my own
training with my clients. It's a much more I wouldn't
call it a lenient or relaxed approach, but it's a
much more sustainable approach.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
The thing about coaching is you have to have patience
if you're going to be a really good yess yeah,
and you have to also have hope for the person
that they could be something they're not. Yes, and if
they feel their coaches lost oping them, it's devicenting.

Speaker 6 (07:40):
Yet that's it.

Speaker 5 (07:42):
It's high and no. It's a powerful thing. When I
was in college, I was going to go into physical
therapy and ended up in my junior year living with
two other students. But they were both quite a pleaching
in Oh. Wow, I did the cooking and the cleaning
and the shopping, and then I did their work out
with them.

Speaker 6 (08:00):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (08:01):
There c four.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
He's had very limited movement.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
The other young man it was a five six meaning
the level of this break and he had quite a
bit more movement, and very similar to you guy with
wanting to be able to lift up his grandson, right,
they had very limited goals.

Speaker 4 (08:18):
I want to be able to open the door. I
want to be able to take a leak. I want
to be able to do it. Brian Hayk. I want
to be able to do whatever for me. I want
to do it for me.

Speaker 5 (08:26):
So working with people with severe disabilities. You really have
to exercise patients and you.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
Have to have hope.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
Yes, And that's really powerful that you bring that to
what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
I think that's great a term.

Speaker 6 (08:39):
If we get into the research, it's called self efficacy,
and self efficacy is really the guy who's done the
most research on it is a man named Albert Bandura,
and without question, it is the greatest predictor of success
in achieving a task. If someone is going to achieve something,

(09:00):
the number one thing you want to look at is
their level of self efficacy. And it's very similar to
their self confidence. It's not exactly the same thing, but
it's their level of belief in their ability to accomplish
that specific task. And there are many ways to improve it,
and there are different ways to measure it. But what
it really boils down to is this, if you believe

(09:22):
that you will be able to do something, yes, then
the likelihood that you will actually do that thing is
almost certain that you will as long as you believe it.
If you don't believe it, it's not going to happen
because why would you bother trying? Why would you bother?
Because we're talking about weight loss, for example, weight loss

(09:44):
isn't linear like it's. There are going to be roadbumps,
there's going to be plateaus, there's going to be difficulties.
They're going to be challenging times of year, notoriously Thanksgiving, Christmas,
New Year's is a difficult time of year, like there's
so many res are situations in which it's going to
be difficult. And if you don't believe you're going to

(10:05):
be able to do it anyway, then why would you
bother spending the time, effort, and energy to do it
if you don't think it's going to happen to begin with.
And when I used to do this a lot, Now
I have a better gauge on measuring self facy without
having to dive in deep. But I would actually take
the time to run quizzes on potential clients where their
self efficacy was. And what I did I created a

(10:28):
Likert scale one to ten scale basically, and to routinely
ask clients where their self efacy was. I wouldn't say
where's your self facy? I would ask them generally on
a scale of one to ten, one being who you're
going to fail, ten being one hundred percent you're going
to succeed where do you fall on that? And I found,
without question, those who scored a seven or above were

(10:51):
going to achieve their goal. Without question, those who consistently
were six or below, they were likely not going to
achieve their goal. And so my goal as a coach
was get people to a seven. If I have a
client who's at a seven, eight, nine, or ten, that
individual client doesn't need raw motivation. They don't need it.

(11:13):
They often are like, I'm good, Just tell me what
to do and I'll do it. The people who are
one to six, that's they need the accountability. They need
you there, and they need you to believe in them
because that they're going to feed off of that. And
so it's very interesting that you didn't bring up the
coaches belief in them because for the people who need
it most, it's incredibly important and it's a major factor

(11:37):
of whether or not they believe in themselves.

Speaker 5 (11:39):
When you're taking somebody, obviously lead that it'll lead. An
athlete getting your ass, shute or whatever is a wld
different story than someone who's phone or bound correct because
the social stigma of that obesity and the physical toll
that it takes.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Is so significant.

Speaker 5 (11:58):
Yes, Oh, to your point, coach has got to be
part shrink, part inspirator, part puzzle worker, outer. You're going
to fix all of those barriers to that individual. Oh,
they've got to fix it, but you've got to help
them see the road anyway.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
I'm fascinated.

Speaker 5 (12:14):
There's so many different approaches coaches take. This is very
what kind of what's your typical client? Is it anybody, man, woman,
any age or is there it's anybody?

Speaker 6 (12:25):
I have people, so I don't take anyone younger than eighteen,
just the legal reasons, but eighteen all the way into
their nineties men and women. Yeah. Yeah, And it's work
with everyone. I work with everyone, and I've worked with again,
very high little athletes all the way to I've never
worked with a quadrant pleasure orre even a paraplegic. But

(12:45):
I have worked with many different health issues, whether it
was ranging from diabetes to PCOS to like many different
health issues. But yeah, it's my personal favorite people to
work with are the average everyday individual, usually parents or grandparents.
Those are my favorites usually because I think a lot

(13:05):
of coaches who don't actually like coaching, They just want
to work with people who are gonna do it no
matter what they want. I'm gonna give you the program
and you do it, and they don't want they don't
want to motivate you. And for me that I love
motivating people like it's one of my favorite things to do.
And the way I think about it is part of
a job of a great coach is to motivate people.

(13:28):
And I always think about it from I was terrible
in school, at very bad relationship with school because many
of my teachers gave up on me. I remember the
full names of every teacher who went above and beyond
to help me. Nathaniel Armistead, I remember every teacher, your
history professor, and he's one of the reasons that I

(13:49):
became such a good writer. Thing that stands out for
me is you will remember a teacher from high school.
I get, but everyone listening can remember at least one
teach or high school college who stands out as the
teacher or one of the teachers that made a big
difference on them. And I guarantee it was because that
teacher went above and beyond to do things that aren't

(14:10):
in the job description. That teacher came in early, stayed late,
they helped them do extra things they went up. They
could have said, no, I'm not going to do this,
this is like on my paid hours, but they did
it anyway. That's how I view coaching, where it's yeah,
I could just give them a program and if they
don't do it, I could blame it on them. But
what if I went the extra mile and actually help

(14:30):
them and then they're telling their kids and their grandkids
that I was the coach that helped them achieve that goal. Like,
that's why I do it. And Zach for me is
really what it boils down to. A motivation and accountability
is a major part of this. And so I've found
that also people with kids and grandkids, they have a
stronger why. It's when you're working with listen, young twenties,

(14:53):
early thirties, no kids, like it's a very unique population,
and some people love working with that population. When you're
working with people of kids, grand kids, there's a why
that you can't understand until you have it. You just can't.
It's when I had my first daughter. The way that
I describe having my first daughter is it was I

(15:14):
experienced emotions that I never knew existed. I've never done,
like mushrooms or these drugs. I have nothing against it,
but I've never done it. But I know some people
who do it. They say they felt like they saw
colors that they didn't know existed before when they do
the callucinogenic drugs. That's what it's like when I had
my first daughter, when it was like, I'm experiencing love

(15:34):
in a way that I've never experienced it before. I'm
literally experiencing an emotion I've never felt before, and it
gives you a new sense of purpose and a new
why that. I love that with my clients. That's the
type of person who gives me the most fulfillment. And
when all of a sudden, they can say they can
put their child in their crib without their back hurting,

(15:54):
or they can play with their kids or play with
their grandkids, or they were able to go on vacation
and without taking rests because their needs were hurting. Those
are the things that on one hand of the kid
is loving every minute of it. They're not even aware
of that stuff, but they're just going to have these
amazing memories. And then the parents of the grandparent is
overjoyed because they were able to do the entire thing

(16:16):
without feeling like they were holding people back or without
like they weren't able to contribute what they wish they
could have. So that's my favorite population to work with.

Speaker 5 (16:24):
Right Because of the NFL alumni, I got the opportunity
to coach Dick Buckets.

Speaker 6 (16:29):
Oh wow, that's awesome.

Speaker 5 (16:31):
At seventy nine years old, Dick was well of these guys,
this motivation level was eleven.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
All you had to do was just lay it out
for it. They got away. The guy was driven. At
seventy nine.

Speaker 5 (16:45):
He was still the same goal I love that used
to just bury people.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Into the ground.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
I'm still just caustic and buddy and just a complete personality.
It was such an honor to get to know and
his family and see him in action. He was a
huge supporter of what we're doing. I actually had the
chance to interview him on the last day of his
life and it was, what I mean, what a terrific person.
And he had a family and he had grandkids, and

(17:15):
all he could talk about off camera was the grandkids,
and yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
All minute.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
But his son Matt worked directly with him, running the
foundation with him and still to this day is part
of the foundation. And yeah, it's a big deal. And
they say, with cancer patients. The minute they lose hope.

Speaker 6 (17:32):
It's over, it's gone, it's correct, and.

Speaker 5 (17:35):
So it's really no different if someone as It was
interesting living with these young men, and it was we
had a whole community. This is Berkeley in the early seventies, right,
you see Berkeley, right, telegrave, the whole deal, and we
Jerry Garcia played down the street every night on the years.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
The avenue, that kind of a wildlife anyway.

Speaker 5 (17:55):
So there was an old community and this was right
when disabled people were mainstreaming. They had the same wants
and desires as anybody else.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
Nothing changed.

Speaker 5 (18:06):
It was they wanted a girl, they wanted a life,
they wanted a job, they wanted a career, they wanted
a family.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
It didn't matter.

Speaker 5 (18:12):
And that's really what got them up in the morning.

Speaker 6 (18:14):
Yes, this was living to try.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
Their best to realize it. So it's very moving.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
You tap into the fundamental emotions and motivations of people
and then you get a whole different part of their
wheel turning yes, because they've got to hear that, and
that is the unpacking of the puzzle that you do.

Speaker 6 (18:34):
That's yeah, that's exactly right, that's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 5 (18:39):
One of the things we do is we put together
shorts that we push out over social media. Okay, and
that would load to have you as part of.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
Capture some of those little callouts.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
So give it some thought, because again we have very
famous people say, look, tackle obesity. OBCD is a medical condition,
not a character blow.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
You can do it or whatever.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
That's the kind of thing that really people need to hear,
and we want to. We want to support your career
by pushing it out through our social media and getting
people to because you've got a wonderful really following in
business and just so.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Impressed with everything you've done.

Speaker 5 (19:17):
By watching your videos, I got a sense of all
the different ways you push But it's different if it's
all crowded people or people you're not even share what
they're on versus the individual. And of course you have
to tailor what you're saying to that audience. But yeah,
I could really get a sense you've done well in there.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
I can see why people are.

Speaker 5 (19:36):
Eager to follow you and learn from you and build
their lives around the kind of lessons. All of it's
all comes down to behavior change, new habits. For me,
the most important change in my life and I lost
fifty pounds.

Speaker 6 (19:50):
Oh wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 5 (19:52):
Correct, Oll Whfe and I I did it first, and
we have the ultimate before picture. We were at Death
Valley in front of the Death Valley's sign. Oh wow,
and she's seventy pounds up here.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
I'm fifty pounds.

Speaker 6 (20:05):
Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
Is that amazing? Right?

Speaker 5 (20:09):
And my after picture is with Memotas on the AUS show. Wow,
and hers is golfing.

Speaker 4 (20:14):
She just hit a bird.

Speaker 6 (20:16):
I love that. That's incredible.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (20:18):
No, And that's part of what led me into working
with the NFL alumni in this program. And I think
what people need to hear is the kind of things
that people encounter.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
But for me, learning how to hydrate was the single.

Speaker 5 (20:34):
Most important behavioral change in my life.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
And I even learned when you BINGI, the most.

Speaker 5 (20:42):
Important thing you do is hydrate yep is it'll keep
it from going into your fat. Because you've got the
science basis, we can take it up a notch today.
So the thermogenic effect of foods was, by the way,
my majors were psychology and exercise physiology, right, so instrigued
by this stuff.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
Right.

Speaker 5 (21:00):
So what people don't know is takes twenty to thirty
percent of the energy in protein to be able to
digest that food, whereas carbohydrates it's about ten percent and
fat is one to three percent. Yeah, which is like, oh,
that's why I get breathe and it goes because people
don't realize. So when you do over what I do

(21:21):
is iight a lot and it helps keep it from
converting to fat.

Speaker 6 (21:28):
Yes. The other thing about hydrating is it will just
keep you full. It's like a really nice it's the
nice way just to fill up your stomach. Right, it's
if at the very least one thing that I always
say people struggle Oftentimes they say, how do I stop
boredom eating or boredom snacking? Or how do I know
the difference with if I'm hungry or not. It's a

(21:49):
funny question nowadays, which is it's like one hundred years
ago and no one would be like, am I hunger
or not? It's like what a world we live in
now where it's like, but now when there's a plethora
of food, which is a blessed saying it's okay, am
I hungry or am I not hungry? I have a
very simple test I called the apple test, and I'll
give a clarification in a second, but very simple, as

(22:11):
you are you hungry enough to eat an apple? If
there was an apple in front of you, would you
eat it or not? And if the answer is no,
you're not hungry enough to eat an apple, then you're
not hungry, you're just bored. It's very simple. And then
people are like, what if I don't like apples, then
pick a different fruit that you actually do. It could
be cantalopic, could be kiwi. I don't care. If you're
not hungry enough to eat a piece of fruit, then

(22:32):
you're not really hungry. And so it's a very simple test.
And then for me, one of the ways that we
always keep apples in the house mainly because I like apples,
but it works with any fruit. If I'm about if
I'm feeling a little snacky, I'll have the fruit first.
And if after the fruit, I still want the snack, great,
I'll go for it. But usually once I've had the fruit,

(22:55):
I would say probably seven seven out of ten times,
once I have the fruit, I'm done, I don't want anymore.
Three out of ten times I'll still have a little snack,
which is better than ten out of ten times going
straight for the snack. And so that's where number one,
you're getting into better habit and establishing better behavior. And
number two is you're removing this all or nothing in

(23:15):
mindset because a lot of people think they can never
have the snack. It's not never have it, it's about
I would rather listen. Seventy percent of the time, I'm
having the fruit and I'm calling it. Thirty percent of
the time, I'll have the fruit, a little bit of
the snack and I'm good. It's not a do or
die situation, which I've found to be very helpful.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Stay tuned, we'll be right back after a short break.

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Speaker 4 (30:53):
Ulter Processed foods.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
Are the most difficult thing right now to avoid, yes,
because they are literally everywhere. Yes, And sadly they're addictive.
Remember you're too young, but you used to have a
commercial with Lais that you can't eat just one oh yeah, yeah,
they let the cat out of the bag because they
actually had said, we're going to make you an addic

(31:18):
for this multiprocessed food and they gave you carbs and
fats and ango tastes so good out of salt bango
and then like you're drinking yes, what the other going
in there?

Speaker 4 (31:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (31:33):
Which is I think it's really important for people to
understand The great thing about an apple, it's got a
lot of fiber and and and water.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
It's got a lot of water.

Speaker 5 (31:43):
So it's all about making smart choices about the food
you eat, because it's it in the train to maintain mode.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
How do you do that? You've got that's the key.
It isn't just losing weight. One hundred and fifty ways.

Speaker 5 (31:57):
To lose weight, correct, you know, I live the rest
to my life exactly exactly because and again, those are
things you have to learn, and those are behaviors that
you have to mold and change and grow based on.
And I love the Apple model because I'd heard that before.
But it's a great it's great, it's apple. You just

(32:18):
your mouth is humble. My gallemate college used to say.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
My mouth is hunk.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
Great.

Speaker 6 (32:22):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Yeah, he wants a snack for no other reason.

Speaker 6 (32:27):
That's what it is. It's the thing with processed foods.
There's a lot of things that could tell their entire books.
We could write about it, but number one thing people
don't understand is companies spend And when I say this
is not an exaggeration, hundreds of millions, if not billions
of dollars scientifically engineering these foods to make them hyper

(32:49):
satiating as a hyper palatable excuse me, in which like
they literally spend millions and millions of dollars trying to
figure out what is the most tasty, the most different
to put down, They pay people to come in and
run focus groups and research to figure out what are
they going to eat the most of what are they
going to eat even past the point of fullness? And

(33:10):
even equally as crazy, they change it based on geographic locations,
so they know that people in southern United States will
respond to foods differently than those who are eating it
in London, and so like they they literally if you
travel the world, you'll see there's different foods and flavors.
Like coke is different in Mexico than it is the

(33:31):
United States. Ships are different, flavor profiles are different. You
go to McDonald's in in a different country, they have
different items on the menu, and it's because flavor profiles
are different based on where you live. So they spend
hundreds of millions of dollars specifically to make it more addicting.
That's number one. Number two is there's a real double

(33:52):
whammy problem here. It's like I said, it's hyper palatable,
and you had mentioned the fat salt carb combo. It
also works with fat, so fat salt carbon also works
with fat sugar carb, so like ice cream for example.
So it were sweet stuff and salty stuff. Those two

(34:13):
make it very difficult, which by the way, peanut m
and ms you get both, right, you get the sweet
and the salty, or like chocolate covered pretzels, sweet and salty.
It's designed to get you to eat more and more. Now,
so that's the first problem is the hyper palatable, but
it's also hype bo satiating, which means that when people

(34:36):
hear about empty calories, that's what it's talking about.

Speaker 12 (34:38):
It.

Speaker 6 (34:38):
It's like you get a lot of calories and you
don't get full from it. And that's a huge problem,
which is one of the reasons I like the apple test,
because if you eat an apple, you're gonna get pretty full,
or at least reduce the urge to binge for about
eighty calories. That way, you'll fill up more with the

(34:59):
fiber and with the water content. And then even if
you have the snack, you will inherently reduce how much
you'll eat because you've already filled up a little bit.
So it's a real struggle, and I very much understand it.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
I think you couple that with hydration.

Speaker 5 (35:13):
To your point, if you add a couple of water
before you eat the NAT, then you've really triple whamm
eat it. Yes, and it's not because a lot of
times when you're thirsty, you think you're hunger and you're
just thirsty. Yes, that's the first layer. And then to
your point, I love the apple and then wait a minute,
I hit it with both those.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
I don't really need that other stuff a big chuck
at the time.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
Meanwhile, you got to have your ice cream once.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
A little that's up.

Speaker 5 (35:39):
Yeah, he's got nothing giving it exactly.

Speaker 11 (35:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (35:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
What I've learned to do is have got zero sugar
yogurts yep, and that can put me off having to
have ice cream or something sugary.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yeah, right, have one of those.

Speaker 6 (35:58):
Yeah, one d percent. Yeah, even something like a diet
coke for example. Like the research on that is overwhelmingly
clear that it can help reduce sugar cravings for zero calories,
zero sugar, which is it's absolutely wonderful. And I know
there's a lot of hate against artificial sweeteners, but to date,
there's no research in humans showing they're dangerous, that all

(36:19):
the research is actually on mice, and the amount of
artificial sweeteners they give them would be the equivalent of
about fifteen cans of diet soda per day, so unless
drinking fifteen cans of diet coca day. And also your
a mouse would have very different metabolic processes than us,
and you're probably good. So having like one can help
reduce a sweet craving is actually very beneficial.

Speaker 5 (36:40):
You're going to die from self that nobody gets out
a lot exactly, Yeah, big yall.

Speaker 6 (36:46):
But by the way, I always laugh when the people
are like shit talking aspartame or getting really mad at
It's like, meanwhile, they're drinking whiskey or wine or some
more of alcohol. I'm like, alcohol is a legitimate which
by the way, I love drinking, like I drink with
my wife. It's fine, but it's ironic that they're calling

(37:06):
aspartame poison while they're drinking an actual carcinogen like alcohol
is among the worst things you can put in your body.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
It's also stars oxygen to the brain and all those little.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
Yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
Yeah, I drank since about two years ago, and they
oh wow, congrat both journey anyway, for me, it was
like an awakening. Wasn't near any voices or anything, but
it's just.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
Like, huh, it's a bait and switch. It's a bait
and switch. Take a drink, you'll calm down. Take a drink,
you'll be happy.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
Take a drink and make friends, take a break, you
get late, Take you drink.

Speaker 4 (37:45):
Whatever it is alcohol.

Speaker 6 (37:47):
They get back though, Man, this is it.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
You look at the composition. It's sugar. Yeah, what's the
average glass of wine is like ten or fifteen things
of sugar in terms of a sugar compound.

Speaker 4 (37:59):
This a lot.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
Yeah, you know what you start looking at you going,
wait a minute, Oh, and that puts calories into your diet.

Speaker 6 (38:06):
Yes, yeah, there's a lot of calories.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
No sample that in all of a sudden you put
a thousand galleries in there that you didn't know yet.

Speaker 6 (38:14):
Yeah. There's also there's interesting research done around alcohol and
food consumption. There are two groups, and the college students
loved this because they got one group got to drink.
One group did that game beer pong. One group had
beer and the other group had water in their cups,
and so one group was drinking the beer and the
other group was drinking the water. The group drinking the

(38:35):
beer had way more fun. They also ate way more calories.
And what they found is not only do you lose
your inhibition or get reduced to inhibition, you also your
ability to get the sensation of fullness diminishes radically. Whereas
as you and I know, when we're drinking water, you

(38:57):
get more full.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (38:58):
So this group that was only drinking water, they were stuffed.
They ate next to no calories because they were so
full from drinking all the water. But the group that
was playing beer pung with beer, they could eat a
lot because they even though they were trinking the fluids,
they were not feeling as full. It was very interesting.
Did the calories from the beer and the calories from

(39:19):
the food it is very double.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I remember those days.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Yeah, No, that's good. Listen.

Speaker 5 (39:31):
This is great in terms of like your general kind
of way you go about taking on a new plant.
Walk me through that. And because I know you have
two tracks. You have the group track and you got.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
The personal tra which is unusual. It's great.

Speaker 5 (39:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (39:45):
So candidly, I am not accepting one on one clients
right now. I have a one and a half year
old daughter, god willing. I have another daughter on the
way in August. I've got a puppy, and I've stopped
taking one class for the time being just because it's
a little too much. So I'm only doing into The group,
which I call my Inner Circle, is a membership and
it's number one. It's way more affordable, but it has

(40:08):
literally everything someone could need, literally everything. It has workout programs.
Whether you can only walk, like that's your starting point, amazing,
we have just that. We have walking programs, strength training
programs for body weight just if you only have access
to dumbbells. We also have full comprehensive gym based program
so everything from an exercise perspective is taken care of.
As soon as you're in. We calculate your calories, your protein,

(40:31):
your fib or for you, so you have that right
on your home screen. We've got recipes that are in there.
We've got literally like a massive group community with people
and encouraging group community. And so I would just go
to Sfinnercircle dot com again Sfinnercircle dot com, you can
join right there. We've got mobility programs, we've got accountability counters,

(40:55):
a place where you contract your weight, we've got a
nutrition track, or you contract your calories, or a bar
code scanner. It's literally an all in one everything you need.
It's my life's work. I've dedicated everything to it. It's
been a blessing because I get to there are people
all over the world, from many countries, all over the world,
and it's how I can meet and help so many people.
And it's also how I support my family, my wife,

(41:15):
my kids. It's been an amazing blessing in my life.
And if anyone joins it, then I would love to
have you, and if not, I hope you get my
free information because I give away everything for free. Anyway.

Speaker 4 (41:25):
What how long does a person usually sign up?

Speaker 6 (41:29):
So the minimum amount you can sign up for us
three months, so it's either a quarterly or annually option.
Obviously the annually get a little bit of a better deal.
It's the minimum possible is three months, but I would
say the average is between like ten to fifteen months
is whereas people the average I've had I started it
in twenty fifteen, so I have some people who have

(41:50):
been in the group since two thousand who have joined
it and then they are in it for a quarter,
but average is between like ten to fifteen months.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
Wow, that was where I was going.

Speaker 5 (42:01):
It takes about a year to really change your certain behaviors.
You don't really make them habits if you give up
too quick. Correct and it's that's a great number. Actually,
that's a really good number, Canda.

Speaker 6 (42:14):
I've used to early on in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen,
I used to offer a monthly membership and people still
ask me for it, but I stopped doing that because
I realized when people sign up for something for one month,
they have a feeling that they're supposed to make insane
amounts of progress in one month. So then by the
time week two rolls around and they're not where they

(42:34):
feel like they should be, then they end up quitting.
Which is why I made it a quarterly option, just
because they're in it for at least three months, and
by the end of the second month, they've really stuck
with it, They've made some really good progress by the
end of the second month, and so then that's when
they'll extend offing at the annual option. But I completely
agree it takes a year to really be like, wow,
I've made some big changes in my life.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
So the typical person, who are they setting up a
week goal and are they using a particular method?

Speaker 6 (43:05):
Have it I have? I had my app developer design
the app, but using my calculation, they come in they
establish their goal, whether it's if it's weight loss, or
if it's weight maintenance, or if it's weight gain, depending
on the person. So if you're doing weight loss, you
just tap weight loss. You say your current weight and
what your goal weight is. Give us more information, and
then we tell you are cool. Is your chloric range,

(43:27):
here's your protein range, and here is your fiber range.
And then you can also set it up if you
want to either eat the same number of calories every
day or if you, like many people, they tend to
eat more calories on the weekend fewer calories during the
week just because of work. But you can structure however
you want. So if you want to do a calorie
cycling approach, you just hit a button and boom. Monday

(43:48):
through Thursday, you have this number of calories. Friday, Saturday,
Sunday you have this many calories, and your net total
at the end of the week is still in an
appropriate amount for you to lose weight sustainably. So everything
is customized to you. The only thing that's not customized
is the workouts, which are for the entire group. But
there's a massive exercise database that I've spent years and
years filming with many hundreds, close to a thousand exercise videos.

(44:12):
And if there's an exercise in the program that you
can't do in the app, you just hit a button
swap it out for another exercise, and those extra it's
not random exercises, so when you hit swap, I went
through one by one and shows all appropriate exercise substitutions
for that exercise. When you're picking it, you're not just
randomly picking a different exercise. You're picking exercise that also
works those muscle groups. And yet it's I've spent almost

(44:34):
ten years now making this and it's it's still not
where I want it to be. We still have a
lot of improvements, but it's isn't my life's work.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
That's great.

Speaker 5 (44:43):
One of our key advisors, doctor Holly Lockton, brained me
on something that I wasn't. People plateau a lot of
times when they're weight loss.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
I did, And.

Speaker 5 (44:54):
What she explained is that she has people start at
about one hundred and fifteen minutes a week of some
moderate exercise, then you step it up. So as you're
losing weight, you're stepping up your activity level because you can.
Then because you have less weight, you're burning less. Correct,
your dase metabolic rate is lowers, exactly, I'll be able

(45:14):
to address it to the weight is of course you
increase your your activity level.

Speaker 6 (45:18):
Correct.

Speaker 5 (45:19):
Is that a similar approach do you take? Or you
have a spin on that?

Speaker 6 (45:24):
So it's a very similar approach. The main thing is
we need to distinguish between a normal plateau and a
I would say a sustained plateau, and maybe a better
phrase would be an acute plateau versus a chronic plateau
would probably a better way to put it. Acute plateaus
a our normal. And just because you have an acute

(45:46):
plateau for a week or two weeks, even three or
four weeks, doesn't you needed to change anything. It's normal
for your weight to not go down every single week,
even every couple of weeks. The way I frame it is,
if you lost one pound a week, every single week,
that's fifty two pounds in a year, and two years,
it's one hundred and four pounds and three years. Like
it just goes on and on. Not everyone has that

(46:07):
much weight to lose, but if you're the scale, it's
not logical, like some days you might not eat very
much and the scale could spike up the next day
for any number of reasons. So some people are too
quick to say this is a plateau and they need
to make a change. So I completely agree with the
women you're speaking about. We're just a little bit slower
to initiate that change because if you make too many

(46:30):
changes too quickly, it will often become unsustainable and you'll
reach a point of activity that is very difficult to
continue to do. So I've noticed through tracking literally thousands
and thousands of people's weight charts, most people don't have
they don't need to make a change until they've experienced
at least like five to ten acute plateaus. And that's

(46:51):
when they have their first chronic plateau. And that's when
we can say, okay, now we can either adjust your
caloric and take or adjust your activity level based on
you've lost this much weight. Now you need to make
it change. But most people, they get to their first
or second or third plateau and they're like, I need
to reduce my calories more or I need to do
more running or need to do more. No, just keep going,
don't quit, just keep doing everything the same. I promise

(47:15):
it will move. And then they do that for a week,
two weeks, three weeks, boom, their weight drops a couple
pounds and they believe in the process. But most people
are too quick to make that change interesting.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
Yeah, that's the more people understand this is really behavioral change.
Yeah's correct, because then they're realizing, oh, this isn't. The
other thing we're looking at a lot is body composition. Yep,
buzz now with these new drugs, and I'd love for
you to go into that a bit.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
And I'm sure you're.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
Coaching some people on drugs, yeah, a lot using Yeah,
so please.

Speaker 6 (47:46):
Take it away so they're listen. As I'm sure you
could probably tell, I'm not a very black and white person.
There's a lot of nuance to everything. There are some
people who these drugs make sense for and they can
actually help improve their health and their quality of life.
There are other people who these drugs are an absolutely
horrible idea for, and they're becoming more of a fad

(48:10):
and something to do because you want to lose a
few pounds and it's not a good idea. The people
who it makes the most sense for are the people
with chronic, chronic, chronically high levels of body fat to
the point where and especially where they it's negatively affecting
there not only their physical health, but their mental health,
their emotional health. And one of the major issues with
chronic high levels of adapacity of body fat is the

(48:33):
toll it takes on your joints. And so if I
can get someone to lose weight so that they can
start walking and moving more, it just initially amazing. That's
what I need to make happen, because just little bits
of walking make a huge difference for a physiological level.
There are some uses in which it makes total sense
and others which it doesn't. I would say it's what's

(48:57):
better than these drugs is these drugs plus actual lifestyle
habit changes. If you're just taking the drugs, you're not
changing your actual lifestyle. It's a big problem. If you're
just taking the drugs and you're not strength training and
getting enough protein, it's a big problem. If you're just
taking the drugs and relying on them to do all
the work for you, it is a big problem. Nothing

(49:19):
is going to be better than also incorporating lifestyle changes.
And it's a real important question that you have to
ask yourself do you want to stay on them forever?
And the only person who can answer that is you.
It's a very individual question that to speak with you
and your doctor, and Frank, they would encourage you to
get multiple opinions from multiple doctors, not just one. There
are many reasons why, but they can off of it.
Just so you know, I forget their website name, but

(49:41):
if you google it, there's a website where you can
go and search your doctor or any doctor and see
how much money they've taken from pharma. And if they're
making hundreds of thousands of dollars year off of pharma,
it might be worthwhile saying do I want to be
getting my advice from this doctor? Should I go to
someone else, to another doctor that's making either no money
or very little money from pharma, it's worth while. But

(50:01):
all this information is freely available to the public, which
I think is important for you to know, and I
think a good doctor will tell you about it. But anyway,
the unfortunately the nuanced answer is for some people it's
the right decision, and for some people it's not and
the only one who can really make that decision as
you and your doctor.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
I think you're right. I think different doctors have different
points of view and.

Speaker 5 (50:21):
Frankly different levels of training. Yes, and just because of
an MD buying their name or d O doesn't mean
they know anything about Indian of this.

Speaker 6 (50:29):
Correct, It's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
And so I don't.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
All I would add is it isn't just doctors you
need you speak to. Yeah, other people, Yeah, that you
can get. And again it's not we have any kind
of deficit in our bodies for these things, right. It
is instead we're you know, we're gonna die from something.

(50:54):
And what I would say is people who have more
abid A BC or chronic obesity was something I get,
GBIL one is the godsent. Is then their risk for diabetes,
or risk for heart disease, or risk for answer urban
neuropathy and a whole.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
Slew of other things. Huge.

Speaker 5 (51:12):
Okay, you've got risks here, but at risk and reward.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
It's a lot of risk over here. Yes, I mean,
if I'm right.

Speaker 5 (51:18):
About it, but that seems to my point of view
is that people when they do that, but a casual
person wants to lose ten bounds something and if you're
not your point, even if you go on, if you
don't change your behavior. And that's why a coach is
so valuable. That's why train is sobey because then you
can establish new habits. Then if you want to taper off,

(51:41):
you can do that. And I've talked to some doctors
and they say, listen, I have patience to do that.
But then when they hit their goals, they extend their
period of time between treat doses yep, where they have
a minimal dose. And that's that again, if that's what
keeps you on your game, then that's the right way
to do it.

Speaker 6 (52:01):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
And so there to your point.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
You need to shop your doctor, those who have had
a lot of experience with it, those who want to
be involved with you, because that's the other party somebody
put you on a medication of that hype.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
You've really got to be invested in you. This is
a patinal thing.

Speaker 5 (52:16):
Things you need to know and there will be changes
in your body you need to be aware of. And
but they can, if they're into it, will be a
huge help. Doctor Lawton is a doll and she's there
actually be in an NYU. She's there to keep people
of at all possible not needing surgery.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
So her whole role is.

Speaker 5 (52:34):
To take is to treat patients but prior to any
kind of surgical invention and see intervention and see if
they she need.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
No more where they need to be.

Speaker 6 (52:42):
I love that.

Speaker 5 (52:43):
And she herself had child o obesity, and yeah, so
she puts her a genuine place.

Speaker 6 (52:48):
I love that.

Speaker 5 (52:49):
Well, all right, Jordan, this has been weekly listen.

Speaker 6 (52:53):
Obesity is a medical condition, not a character flaw. I
hope that you found this podcast helpful and make sure
you go to tackle OBC. And the most important thing
again is to remember that no matter what, you can
make a change. You can do this. It's not going
to be easy, it's not going to be quick, but
as long as you stick with it and you don't quit,
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For over a century, AM radio has evolved to meet
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It's Gary Garber, the Controlled Chaos Radio Show. Yes, there's
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(58:25):
right here on KCAA.

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Speaker 13 (01:00:00):
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