Wests Tigers Collaboration Pod: Analysing the Loss to the Panthers

In this collobration podcast episode, Joel, Steve and Garry from the Wests Tigers Podcast are joined by Rob from the Wests Tigers Life podcast. The guys analyse the West Tigers' recent loss to the Panthers, discussing key performance issues, tactical decisions, and player dynamics.

They express concerns about the kicking game, the halves' performance, and the impact of injuries on the team's overall effectiveness.

The conversation also touches on recruitment strategies and the importance of maintaining high standards within the coaching staff.

The episode concludes with reflections on the team's future prospects and a one-word summary from each host.

Takeaways
The Wests Tigers are experiencing regression in performance.
Kicking game strategy needs to be more tactical and varied.
Injuries have significantly impacted team dynamics and performance.
Concerns about the halves' ability to execute effectively.
The need for a genuine impact player in the middle of the field.
Recruitment strategies must focus on strengthening the forward pack.
Coaching staff must maintain high standards and challenge players.
The team needs to improve in the red zone to score more effectively.
Player performances are inconsistent and need to be addressed.
The future of the team relies on effective recruitment and development.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Context of the Loss
02:59 Analyzing the Game: Key Performance Issues
05:41 Kicking Game and Tactical Decisions
08:46 Player Performances and Team Dynamics
12:05 Concerns About the Halves and Game Strategy
14:56 Injuries and Their Impact on Team Performance
17:47 Future Prospects and Recruitment Strategies
20:51 Reflections on Coaching and Team Culture
23:50 Final Thoughts and One-Word Summaries




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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to the latest collaboration podcast, West Tigers Podcast and
West Life Podcast and a little bit different for me,
first time in the studio, first time also with Steve
Stretton as well. Unfortunately, it's not a post victory edition.
It's a post loss edition, and it was a thirty
six points to two loss to the Panthers last night,

(00:34):
Saturday night. Of course here in Paramatta. We're recording at
micd Up Studios and a lovely facility. But let's get
into it with our regular routine on the West Tigers podcast.
That's starting off, kicking off with the one word submissions.
Gary's here on my left, Gary, one word please for
that loss to the pan Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
For me, Joel, it's just bowl constrictor. The Panthers absolutely
strangled us last night. They We're very clinical and they
just took us out. That's a new one. Steve, what
have you got for us.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
For the occasion. I've got two words, Joel. I've got comprehensive.
It was just Panthers, Panthers, Panthers from kickoff to final siren.
And the second one is clinical. They were just clinical
for eighty minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
What about the first twenty minutes we'll come back to that,
Steve and I might have a different opinion on the
first twenty minutes in the West Tigers performance. And Rob
Bishara is here, rob one word please for that thirty
four point loss regression. Regression.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
We're going backwards and that's quite disappointing no matter whether
we win or lose. I want to see some improvement
moving forward to the end of the season. And I
do have a second one four year Joel. I don't
know if you like it or not. Bradbury Bradbury. I
think we might Bradbury our way out of the wooden spoon. Okay.
I think all the others are going to fall over,
perhaps maybe Sous, maybe Newcastle. I think they'lltruggle to get

(01:55):
a win. Otherwise we're in trouble. I don't know if
we can win another game at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Stephen Bradbury is a West Fer supporters, so it might
be appropriate, mate Oka.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Some people would say unfairly that we've used up our
Bradbury component in two thousand and five, but that's a
debait for another day. As always, I'm a little bit
cheeky with my one word submissions. I've got a few
here I don't have physicality. I've taken physicality off the list,
but I put collision. Until we can win the collision,
we're going to be trading water in my opinion. I've

(02:24):
also got line speed. I thought our line speed was
particularly poor last night, and in that same vein the wrestle,
we're really really poor at the wrestle. I've got wingers
disappointed in a couple of the efforts, especially from Skelton two.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
We two.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Of course, first game, bad play of the ball, but
I'll give them a break for that. We'll talk about
Skelton on this show. And then I've got more specifically.
I've got the kicking game, which I thought was way for.
We might have a bit of a chat about that
in a minute. Gary and the halves some concerns about
Latu and Jerome Leui and how they're going to link

(03:02):
up into the future. In particular, la to not running
the ball, that's his strength, but he just distributed all night.
So there's a lot.

Speaker 5 (03:10):
There to kick us off.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
But the kicking game, where do you think, Gary?

Speaker 5 (03:14):
I was really disappointed in it. I went to the
game yesterday.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
I sat high up in that southern stand up near
the top, and I had a very good view of
the field, and the Panthers were often only having two
guys back, both towards the sidelines, so there's a lot
of space down the middle. And if you remember early
we put up a couple of bombs that actually bounced
because that space was there, and I would have liked

(03:38):
to seen us driving deep straight down the field into
that space. I think, I think there was an opportunity
there to really take control of the field position with
a smart, tactical kicking game. But it seems our game
plans the same every single week in regards to our kicking,
and it's wasted high and pin them down in their
own end. That's a strategy we've used pretty much every

(03:59):
single game this year. I really thought yesterday there was
an opportunity to take advantage of the Panthers leaving the
middle of the field open, laid in sets and driving
it into that space.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
So I had to take advantage of that. They go
when you're kicking the ball from inside your forty, you know,
and that was happening or game. You know, I don't
know if we've got to kick away on the halfway line,
you know, for the full eighty minutes, and you're right.
All season, we've just been hoisting these bombs. But when
you when you're kicking them from inside your forty, it's
hard to make distance, right.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, what we needed to be doing is driving it
low and long. The space was there, the space was
down the middle of the field, and instead we're still
putting up those bombs that were falling about twenty meters
out from the Trailine.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Found Edward's almost every time.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, but if you have a look back at the replay,
have look where he was positioned on on fifth place.
The winger was ropping back on one side and he
was covering the other other sideline.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
But I go further than that as well. There were
a lot of uncontested bombs, Like when Penrith were put
up bombs, they were challenges. Jenkins dropped a ball over
the line. They contested with Skelton when he made a
knock on. And not only did we not contest bombs,
there are a couple of really weird options. We were
nearly scoring on one end in the first half and
then Loui goes back to the blind, so I put
to grab a kick that was nothing LA two later

(05:16):
on in the set. I think he might have been
playing for the post, but he kicks the ball dead
and Penwrith get a seven tackle set. So our kicking
game all round, it wasn't just Loui. There was a
really bad kick from Latu there as well.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
To me, the reason why those bombs were uncontestant, they're
the wrong kicks exactly. We were putting kicks up, trying
to pin them in their own end. They weren't meant
to be attacking kicks because we were kicking from the forty,
Like Steve was saying, our kicks were going too deep
for us to chase and be competitive kicks. They were
defensive kick when I think there was a much better
opportunity to drive the ball low last night, better than

(05:47):
most weeks that we've seen. Watching it from the viewpoint
I had, we really should have been driving low and
hard straight down the middle of the field.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
But you know, just to your point, Rob, yeah about
uncontested kicking, And I've been saying this all year, we
all have. Sometimes you just wonder how much training the
team does because our execution is so poor so often.
If you've got to ask that question now, they're a
first grade footy team, and they're a professional organization, so

(06:16):
you imagine they're doing as much as anyone else. But
I wonder sometimes because you watch the Storm, you watch
the Panthers, and they just get these these parts of
the game right all the time. They execute a kick
to within an insurance life. There are two or three
players there to grab the ball. There are two or
three there surrounding it to grab it if it goes

(06:37):
left or right, and they execute ninety five percent of
the time. We execute poorly. We don't have players there
in position. We muck it up, we miss the opportunity,
and you've got to ask yourself, why is that. Is
it just the personnel or is it the amount of training.
Do we do the repetition that's needed to execute the
level of NRL.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
There's a few things there we're missing. Ball ball seems
to be our strike. When we put a bomb up.
He's the one that chases at the moment. And there's
nothing wrong with this because we're trying to get a
quick play the ball in the last tackle. But you
would have noticed that Tito was taking the fifth tackle,
hit up, getting on his stomach, trying to get the
quick play the ball for the kick, but even just
another thing I didn't like. Why didn't we try to?
I don't know what Tutupu is like under the high ball.

(07:18):
I haven't lotched him in Cup, but he's got a
hype in his match against Brian Tyo there did we
put up one bomb to tie? Not at all.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
The first thing I'll discuss is Tito taking that fifth
tackle or fourth.

Speaker 5 (07:30):
Tackle it quite regularly. Yeah, it's actually a tactic.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
It means that he doesn't have to chase correct so
he can play the ball. Everyone else gets down the field.
It doesn't matter that he's off side on the kick
because he's always going to be offside because he's played
the ball because he's not chasing, so he's at full back.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
He's staying at full back.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
So it's actually a tactic from the club have him
take that fifth tackle. And it's actually a really good
one with Tito because the amount of damage that he
causes when he hits that lineup, he actually does get
a really quick play the ball on those, so it
does put us in a really good position. But you
will notice next week when Bull's back, he won't be
taking those fifth tackle hit ups because as you said

(08:10):
he is our primary chaser and has through the season
put a lot of pressure on guys taking those bombs.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
I want to circle back around to the harvest in
a moment, but to rue of twenty six runs two
hundred and sixty two.

Speaker 5 (08:23):
Meters an amazing game.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Really, really, you know his heart was one hundred percent
in that game. Who's he going to replace? Which wing
is he going to replace?

Speaker 5 (08:31):
Gary?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
That is a really tough question, because Skelton was really
poor last night. He again a number of times he's
come off his wing.

Speaker 5 (08:44):
Last night.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
He did put another good shot on last night, and
I have two problems with that because he did it
in about three or four other times where he didn't
get to the position before the shot on and got
caught out in defense. But he also puts his head
in a terrible position every time he does it. Even
last night, his head pretty much went straight into the
stomach of the player who was trying to tackle. So

(09:05):
it's a risk defensively, and it's a risk half wise.
I think we saw him go off for Hia earlier
in the season from one of those hits that he
didn't quite get right. So for me, it would be
Trueva going back to Skelton's wing is what I'd be
looking at, or or maybe swacking the round, depending out
where Isaac is better to play. I'd like to see
Isaac get another shot.

Speaker 5 (09:25):
I thought he was. I thought he was pretty good
for a Tavoo last night.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
For a game where he didn't get much opportunity, Like,
you know, we were on the back foot all night,
you know, so you're not going to get goodball out
your outside backs. I thought he was pretty solid for debuts.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, I'm going to roover on the right wing. There's
nothing against Tutupu, like, I'm happy to get him another chance.
I think we'll see Macasini on the left wing.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, that's don't open that cand of worms. That's a
whole other cand of worms. Macassini's birthday today eighteen, shares
his birthday with Eddie Otto, interestingly, and that's why Eddie's
not with us this evening. He's celebrating with Macassini or
maybe potentially with Makasini. They're into their fourteenth red vodka
Red Bull.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
Maybe Happy fortieth Eddy exactly forty, Yeah, it looks much
older than that.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's definitely not Eddie's eighteenth birthday. Interestingly, just on that game,
going back to the to the wingers, it's funny. We
don't really need to open a discussion on this, but
just something that I noticed was that Penrith didn't target
our debut winger. They kept going to Skelton side every time,
which I thought was really main interesting.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
If you see a guy coming in off his wing
like that was, there's a reason they kept on going
back there. Yeah, coaching, and there was a number of
times where they went that side and messed it up
as well, so it could have been a lot worse
for Skelton.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Well, I saw a pregame the Panthers I think score
sixty percent of their points down their left side. So no, yeah,
it wasn't a great change to their game plan. But
I thought that was interesting because normally the debutant winger
comes in for plenty of action. But I thought I
thought he was quite good TOI Tupu and I'd be
dropping Skelton and he can be playing a little bit
in the mag by its teams. I'm concerned after that
performance the halves, Gentleman, big concerns for me. I'm really

(11:05):
really worried about what I saw Steve Is has the
has the command come down from up above that Latu
Feinu has to distribute and not run. Was it a
choice that he made in that game? Is it something
to compliment it's a Luey's game. I just thought it
just wasn't working last night at all.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Well, it's definitely not a choice for just last week's
game because Lard who hasn't run the ball for two
weeks now. You know, I don't think he hit the
line at all in the last two games, So I
don't know whether he's playing a little bit injured. I
don't know whether he's he's worn out. You know, Benji
gave him the excuse in the press conference that he's,
you know, young bloke playing first grade and he's played
a lot of games back to back and he's, you know,

(11:47):
he's feeling that. So that might be the case. I
don't think we've got a situation where we can rest him.
That's for sure. He needs to go out, but he
needs to run the ball. That's that's his skill set.
That's he's explosive. He's fantastic when he takes off so
quickly in and around the ruck. So you know that
gives us an extra point of attack that stops your
defensive line. It allows us to then get a quick

(12:08):
ball out and hold the defense in because they think
he's going to run. Once he stops running, the defensive
line can relax and then you pass it out wider
and there's no problem wrapping that up.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Rob.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Did we sign Jock Madden to play reserve grade?

Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yes, we did, but I think I like the signing
and I think he's an adequate backup should someone get injured.
I think Benji's got to decide who runs a team
and who the general is. I don't think it's good
for Latu's development to take him off the way he did,
and to move him around from half back to lock
the other thing I will say, and again, Latu's very
young and I'm a massive fan of his. Latou's got

(12:43):
to have a louder voice. If Latu had Jerome Leway's voice,
I think it would work a lot better. It's not
so much the running Steve. I want to see Lartu
straight in that attack and dig into the line because
he does take the right options. He knows when the
Panthers defense jam up really quickly to hold the ball
and take the tackle. So he's got the I like there,
but I don't think you're doing anything for his confidence
by shuffling positions, tinkering around with everything, and it goes

(13:07):
to everything else. Even Skelton, whether he was on the
left wing last week, formed a great combination with me.
He suddenly he's on the right wing this week. I
don't think the coach is helping the situation as well.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, I agree with that, but I'd say that he's
definitely taken the running game out of his game in
the last two weeks. He's running way less than he did,
you know, like I say, a month ago, and he
looked dangerous every time he ran the ball, and that's vanished,
and naturally, the minute that vanishes, the defensive line started
to think, well, we don't have to worry about him,

(13:36):
we can just focus on the outside men.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
That I think he was running the ball more because
he's playing that lock roll. So now Adam's getting the
ball first instead of Lato, so he's got a bit
more time to make that choice whether he runs or
whether he passes.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, there's a couple of issues with he's running for me,
and the first one is we've moved him from lock
Tohalf and the way we have structured our attack the
last couple of weeks is that that Locke has been
playing that kind.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
Of half back role.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
But if you have a look at our opponents for
the last two weeks, we played the Warriors and we
played Penriff, there are two packs that have dominated us.

Speaker 5 (14:11):
And it's really.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Harden to both run the ball and straighten the attack
when there's no when the defense is moving up on
you as soon as you get the ball. I think
that's why we're moving a lot more sideways.

Speaker 5 (14:22):
Last night and.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Last week against the Warriors, a tactic even coming out
of end was shifting from side to side, and we
started the game with that last night as well, But
then it went that disappeared and we really went into
that one out sort of football that wasn't working against Penriff.
Weren't getting forward, which then Lakho's getting the ball and
the defense is right in front of him, so you
can't straighten. You end up passing the ball to a

(14:46):
guy who's not in a much better position. And for me,
what it highlights is we still lack that genuine guy
in the middle who can punch through a line. That's
the most important signing we need to make. I like
the front row as we have, but we don't have
that guy who can really disrupt the defensive line and

(15:06):
create room.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
For the half back to actually straighten and to actually run. Well,
we were.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Not a bit of a tangent there because we started
in the halves round out into the front row. But
that's all good.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
But I went back to the harsh roll. It was
all of that getting to the right spot. There was
something going on in the old days.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
We call that the run around movement.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
We've actually got a front rower that can play half
back from time to time, so you know.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah that's true. Look, stop leading me down rabbit holes.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Definitely agreeing with Rob that we're missing Baller one hundred.
It's a massive factor. It changes our whole attack.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Gary, Yeah, that Buller out. I don't think there's been
enough mentioned about that. Our attack looks much worse when
Buller's not there. I expect our attack much better next
week because he provides all the shape. If any game
he hasn't played this year, go back to round one,
you go back to any other game he's missed this year,

(15:58):
our attack looks much worse because we don't have that
genuine option out the back and to Uva, I'm not
going to bag the guy at full back. He's had
a fantastic, a fantastic couple of games at fullback and
I can't criticize that at all.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
I mention his improvement over that three week period. Right
that first game, which was a light card, I think
maybe a roosters, I think, yeah, that's all right, okay,
a first game. You know, he was solid, he was solid,
but he looked nervous. His improvement over like he's going
to go back to wing for sure. But his improvement
over three weeks is exceptional.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
And he's been very safe under the high ball. He
brings the ball back very hard. We spoke about that
fourth tackle hit up that he's been taking that actually
does damage the defensive line. But he's not that genuine
threat and attack that Buller is and and we have
been missing that massively, and I think that makes the
halves job much harder as well, because you don't have

(16:54):
that other guy, and Told is the other one. I
think Buller being missing is hurt. Since Buller has been out.

Speaker 5 (17:00):
Toller's attack has fallen off a clear and a lot
of that I view as.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
He's not getting that quality ball that Buller provides to him.
He's not getting that space, he's not getting that early
ball one on one with his with his opposite number,
and that has affected his game massively in the last
couple of weeks.

Speaker 5 (17:20):
And that's all down the baller for me.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
We've all I agree. I wouldn't say it's all down
to Belo because we've already been been smashed in the ruck.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
It all starts there.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
You're not You're not going to get any momentum downfield
when you're getting smashed in it.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Rob Stafford Tower definitely injured. He's not the player that
he was two months ago.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
Yeah. I've posed this to Adele a number of times.
He looks like he's carrying an arm or he actually
looks like he doesn't care at the moment. That's that's
the only way I can describe what he's doing. And
further to that, just with Benji changing him occasionally playing
full back feeding the ball to it. It's a bad move,
but he's that move being designed because he actually is
trying to protect his body.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
Is is it.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Because we're waiting for Macasina to turn eight eight.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
No, it's not Macasine's the left side of the fuel player.
That's what everyone keeps telling me. I don't know if
Taylor can switch and play right center and we play
maxaxin he left, and that's a potential option as well.
But Toer has gone like I jokingly, well, I've got
a running joke with a made of mine. I said
to Talla about Tower six weeks ago. Sorry, that Tower's
in the top five centers at the moment in the league.

(18:23):
He must have heard you, mate, he heard me, and
he's now probably in the top fifty census.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
So are we seeing the Staff and Tower that we've
seen last year and the year before, like flashes of
brilliance but just can't sustain it Like this year he's
probably sustained it for half a season.

Speaker 5 (18:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
I'm one of his biggest fans. I think he's a
great footballer when he's on. But the problem has been
in the past through to injury, partly that he just
doesn't do it week after week. And it looked like
this year he got away from that and got over it.
But this last few weeks he's maybe reverted.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
I'd like to think he's injured, but his form has
absolutely regressed since he to announce that he hasn't actually
re signed with us. Now I'm wondering if he's sulking
a little.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Bit too, But I don't think it's sulking. I'm willing
to give him the bane for the doubt. His performance yesterday.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
Would almost be at the level where I'm drop him. Yes. Agree.
I want to give him the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Next week to play with Buller, with Buller coming back,
and see if that makes a difference for him. And
I'll be honest, yesterday I wasn't. The attack was really poor,
but the defense is what had me worried yesterday. There
was some really bad defensive there as he fell off
some really bad tackles. And what I heard from the
club when I went out to the captains run a

(19:39):
couple of weeks ago was that the elbow was a cork.
It seems it's been. It's looked much worse than that
at times over the past three weeks. So if it
is only a cork, hopefully it's better next week. Because
his attack was one of the reasons why we're able
to stay in games and win those games early in
the season and we need that back.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Rob's going to shoot me down. But maybe we haven't
resigned him because we're waiting to see how Macasini goes.
So maybe he is sulking. So maybe it's I.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
Think he did enough though to say that we deserve
Like the first half of the year, you had that
consistency that he never had in his West Tiger's career,
and suddenly he's just fallen off a cliff.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, I think he's definitely injured. But yeah, there could
be other things going on. I want to talk about
tailor maybe. But firstly, I mean, if you're going to
beat the West Tigers, as we bang on a lot
about line speed, line speed, line speed, the Panthers line
speed really really, really impressive. But if there's something we
can model on their game, it's that multiple points of
attack that they've got where they can throw so much

(20:37):
at you from Edwards and Yeoh and Cleary.

Speaker 5 (20:40):
And also.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
If that's not enough, I mean the fullback, the half back,
the five eight, the lock they can all put something
on Gary and then you look at our attack, we
just look so pedestrian and predictable, even though we're playing
a fleam or trying to play a somewhat flamboyant style
of football still sort of like our opposition is often
just wants to be ahead of us.

Speaker 5 (21:06):
Look, I think there's a couple of reasons for that.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Steve spoke about repetition, repetition, and I'm not sure that
we run for those plays constantly during the preseason, and
it makes it very hard to do that during the season.
There's been so many changes in our spine throughout the year,
and right now, even what our best spine would be
right now hasn't actually played together ever. So our best

(21:31):
spine would have Happiert Hooker La two at half and
Leui at six and Dream Buller at one.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
Just that combinations never ever actually played together.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
Just with yesterday's going, Gary from the main tower made
that break after Penwith dropped the ball went down the
other end, and he looks slow on that too. Not
only that, but from that moment, that was probably the
most enterprising we looked. For about two minutes. We actually
threw multiple shots when we're in the red zone, and
that was it. Other than that, every time we got
on the red zone in the first half, we just looked.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
So under I think we went out there with an
attitude to go around them from early in the game.
They'll throw on the ball around when they saw that
penwas defense is just so solid that that wasn't going
to work. We couldn't create numbers. Then they reverted to
trying to go through the middle, and we just don't
have the power in the middle to go through. You're

(22:24):
not going to be Peneth through the middle.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
I agree, we don't have the power to go through
the middle. But Benji said in the press conference we
tried to play penwith style against Penrith, and I thought
that was ludicrous for him to say that.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I don't know if that's true, because I thought
early in the game, even coming out of our own end,
I saw the same tactic we tried against the Warriors,
and that was spreading the ball from our own end
and trying to move there forward side to side to
tire them out. That was obviously the tactic early in
the game. Was obviously the tactic in that first twenty minutes.
And I think Steve's right when we couldn't strip numbers,

(22:54):
and I'll go back to we couldn't strip numbers because
without baller, we don't have any shape. So when we
couldn't strip numbers, Pendriff just eats.

Speaker 5 (23:02):
That every day of the week.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
If you're just shifting from left to right and not
really offering any shape, not offering any variety to that,
Penriff will just eat that for dinner every day of
the week, and I'll strangle you out of the game.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
I saw that early shift slightly different. Those early shifts
weren't to beat Penrith. Those early shifts were to spread
their defense so they couldn't gang tackle us. So we
try and spread it really early on the first tackle,
and that way they can't get three guys four guys
jamming up on us like New Zealand were doing early
in the game against US. So I don't see that
as us trying to get around them as a game plan.
It was just to spread them out so you can

(23:37):
start punching up the middle.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
And move their forwards around. Correct.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
So I didn't see it as a tactic to score
from eighty meters out and go around to Miiva.

Speaker 5 (23:44):
Correct. But we did the exact same tactic against the Warriors.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Ye early in the sets coming out of ourn and
we're going from side to side and it was the
move their big forwards around and with hopefully again you
don't get the gag tackling, but you also tire those
bigger forwards out, and Paroff does have a decent fawdback,
and some guys you want to tire out and then
try and take advantage of him through the middle later
in the game.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
You know, they've got a couple of forwards that we
thought weren't good enough for us, and we let him
go Garner and Papalale. So we can't keep talking about
the Penrith machine as like, oh, we had those guys
and we said they weren't good enough for us, So
maybe it's a penwith system as opposed to it.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
I would take Ghanna back tomorrow. I would take Kandah
back tomorrow too. He'd be going to Manly. That was
the last I heard, Steve. How is it possible that
our best player, our player that looked to have the
most physicality for one of a better term, the player
that looked the most threat is a guy that hasn't
played other than last week and a half a State
Cup game. I mean, Taylor may looked to be, in

(24:38):
my opinion again, a step above everybody.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Else and out well everyone's saying, and Taylor May is
an athlete. You know, he got his fitness up in
a couple of weeks and was ready for first grade,
probably three or four weeks earlier than the Tigers originally proposed.
But you know, he was solid inside. He definitely didn't
let him let the team down on the weekend. He
was brilliant the week before, We were solid last week league.
And he's going to be our left center for quite

(25:02):
a while. Well perhaps perhaps he might go to right
if Makassini comes in. But yeah, good footballer.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
He's all class, he's got the IQ. It was one
movement Gary, you'd probably remember it in the first half
where sorry second half, when Penwrith was shifting the ball
to Tailor's side and they had the overlap and Tailor
committed to the ballplayer the next receiver and the guy
after that, and he just and they never found the overlap.
And not only that, like Targo and had quiet games
by their standards. So Pendrith really identified the Skelton side

(25:31):
of the field.

Speaker 5 (25:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
I didn't think he was as good attacking the yesterday Steve,
but defensively he was really strong and lacked opportunity, did
lack have turning with the ball.

Speaker 5 (25:40):
But he makes the right decisions to.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
Two poo scores if he does that little flick to
him with the left hand.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
But yeah, he makes the right decisions in defense time
and time again, and hits hard and makes the opposition
think twice about running at him because he does actually.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
Hit really hard.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
He's going to be an asset. He's so good, going
to be an asset. We need to get that extent.
We need to resign him and get him on a
top thirty contract as soon as possible. We can't have
him off contract for much longer because other one other
clubs are going to come looking for him.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, yeah, they'll swoop in and grab him like his brother.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
You know.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
The funny thing watching him is that he never looks puffed,
like they must have massive lung capacity or something. They're
just great athletes, so they just always look so so
composed and ready to go and so cool and calm.
So yeah, I hope we don't lose him. I think
if we're going to kick off a bit of a
talk about the forward, so I'm going to ask the question,
like Royce Hunt, surely, surely, what he's bringing, what he

(26:37):
could bring in a fifteen minute stint, is more than
what we're going to get from some of our other
options off the bench, like.

Speaker 5 (26:43):
We need and is what we need.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
So don't we as fans or don't we need to
know what's going on there or something? Because he was
part I read on the Westligers podcast for him. Somebody
made the point and that I'm stealing, which is that
he was involved in five of our wins. Like we've
people would say, well, when Royce Hunt's on and firing,
we're a better team. What's the point of having him

(27:06):
in playing him in State Cup?

Speaker 3 (27:08):
But Joe, we've talked about the need for the club
to change culture and to have standards and stick to standards. Now,
from what I've heard, he's unfit. He hasn't made the standards,
he hasn't ticked the boxes at training, and despite having
a couple of good games in reserve grade, he's still
not at the level that the club believes he needs
to be at to play first grade consistently and pump

(27:30):
out the minutes they want from him. And so if
you're making if you make an exception for him and
put him on the field because where we're getting desperate,
then what you're doing is you're accepting second great standards,
and we've done that for way too long. So I'd
love to have him out there. I'd love to see
him in the seventeen, but I'm going to stick by

(27:51):
Benji in the coaching group because I think they've got
to maintain those standards.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, the club has told he may want more minutes
out h the some key targets. He needs to hit
some fitness targets. He needs to hit the show that
he's ready to play those minutes, and I don't think
they're going to put him into first grade until he
hits those targets. Hopefully it's very soon, because we're spoken
about already tonight. Our key thing we're missing is that

(28:16):
lack of punch through the middle, and he's the one
forward in our club that can provide that lack of
He can provide that lack of punch.

Speaker 5 (28:23):
He can improve that on any of those guys. He
can improve those lack of punch through the middle.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
Yeah, we've got to get about thirty minutes a game
out of him. I'm not with you on the fifteen
minute part, Joel. I'd rather get some bigger minutes, So
I kind of lean to what See's.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Saying there, Okay, Steve. Before we started recording, we had
a little conversation about the first twenty minutes of the game,
and my notes seem to show that my thought after
twenty minutes was that we weren't on top of them.
They weren't on top of us. We were sort of
holding each other somewhat to a bit of a stale mate.
You could kind of see what was gonna come. But

(28:58):
you're saying that, really the Panthers were just toying with
it's in the first twenty.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Well that's my point. Well, you just said you could
see what was going to come, so progressively in that
first twenty minutes, every set the Panthers just moved down
the field, all right. So they started their set early
in the game on their ten meter, Then the next
set they started on the fifteen, and the next set
they started on the twenty. Right, we were progressively getting

(29:24):
pushed back deeper and deeper and starting our sets closer
and closer to our goal line. I was watching it, right,
I haven't looked at stats. I was just watching it,
and I was saying to myself, we're going to drop
a ball coming out, or we're going to or we're
going to give away six again in a minute. And
sure enough, after that went from about fifteen to twenty minutes,
that's what happened. We gave away two two set restarts

(29:46):
and they scored. It was just so inevitable, and everyone
was Everyone was saying in the post match that we
held it with them for twenty minutes, the first twenty
we went with them. I don't agree. I thought it
was obvious that they would gidding slowly, but surely they
were getting on top of us and they were just
weariness down and then bang we cracked and we couldn't

(30:08):
We couldn't hold.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Them, couldn't go with them.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, in my eyes, that's just Panof being Panoff. That's
exactly how they play and us burn us and us
being us. But I think I think Panrah kind of
approached last night as let's go out show what sort of.

Speaker 5 (30:23):
Side we are, how we win semi final games.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
And I think they did toy with us a little bit,
a little bit like a cat toying with a mouse,
because I think if they really had a push to
go button last night, they could have scored a lot
more than thirty points, but they really stuck to their
game plan last night for the entire game and just
strangled us out of it. And when Panash's playing the
best football, when Pane's playing semi final football, when they're

(30:48):
winning grand finals, that's exactly how they play. They just
give you no chance to get into that game. And
that's what they did last night. They took control after
about that twenty minute mark and they just never took
their foot off. And that's that's what we're seeing from
them for the past five years.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
I know, I know this is not a this is
not a Painter of podcast, but I reckon it was
a It was a key game for them, and I
could feel it when the minute they put Liam Martin
in the seventeen last minute, I thought they're building for
something here. But they've won five or six on the truck.
Six it's on the truck now, you know. And and
they were their game was getting better and better and better.
But you wouldn't say in that month it was clinical.
It wasn't that clinical. But last night I thought they

(31:28):
wanted to put in a clinical performance. That was their goal,
wasn't It was a statement game. Yeah, it was to
play semi final football.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, And like I really think they could have gone
away with that game in the last twenty minutes and
really put a number on us, but.

Speaker 5 (31:43):
They stuck to that game plan.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
And and I agree with you one hundred percent think
they were trying to put a message out there, and
it wasn't a message that we can just blow you away.

Speaker 5 (31:53):
It was a message out we will just strangle you.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
I agree that they strangled us, but I'm going to
disagree totally about the first twenty minutes. We got into
the arm wrestle with them, that's what we tried to do,
and we forced an eror Edwards loses the ball. In
the twelfth minute, we've got to scrum twenty meters out
the center of the field, Taylor May gets called for
being held up, and then it's a really poor last
tackle option there that we let the air off. So
if you're trying to go set for set with Penrith

(32:17):
and you get that opportunity and then your attack isn't
good enough to take advantage of that opportunity, then there's
an issue. I one hundred percent agree with you both
about they absolutely strangled you. Know what out of us
once they got ahead, but we had our opportunity to
kick away and we didn't do it. Boys. And even
in reference to what you're saying about the flick pass
from Skeleton, we defended that. We got past that. So

(32:40):
you want to go if you want to block, Benji said,
go set for set with Penrith. We did that, but
we don't have the attack or the organization to take
advantage of when they do force anario because there are
a number of errors from Penrith in that first half
and we didn't take advantage of it. And if you
just keep giving a full time in a Row premiership
in a chance of course, they're going to squeeze the
life out. And they stepped on our throat and we
had two of their props put grubber kicks for Christ's sake,

(33:02):
and one of them Smith, I promise you he could
have taken to river On and scored himself. That was arrogance.
They treated us with contempt in the end.

Speaker 5 (33:09):
But that.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Pente backs themselves to defend those mistakes. That's exactly what
they do. Like I agree, that's what they've done for
four years and they'll get into that arm wrestling, if
they make a mistake, they defend it.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
They don't just defend it, Garry, they also they also
recover from it so quickly.

Speaker 5 (33:29):
But I actually watched it. We're still recovering today. If
you our first hour yesterday.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
We're not even close to recovering it. But to your point, Rob,
I was actually thinking through that game that every time
we did get an opportunity the minute Penneth got the
ball back, they put on a sixty meter set every
single time. So not only did they repel our attack,
they then recovered and pushed us back to where we

(33:54):
were two three minutes ago.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
They identified Skelton's side of the field like even that
try before halftime, that was it eighty meter effort, So
they knew exactly what they were doing. But it's a
look I can't really I don't. Probably it's probably the
greatest analogy. But if you're an up and coming young
tennis player and you Novak Djokovic is serving and you
get to thirty forty, you take the chance. We you know,
Djokovic made an error twenty meters out from his own

(34:18):
line and we got the scrum feed and we didn't
take advantage of that. So we've got to take our opportunities.
We did everything we wanted to do. We didn't lose
it on the scoreboard. We're in the game. We had
a chance and a poor kick. I think I made
a note after Taylor May got held up LEU, I
did that blind side kick and it was amounted to nothing.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, the Panthers cleaned that up and sort of march
downfield from there. I like the word clinical. I'd love
it if we could use that in the context of
something to do with the West Tigers.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
That would be fantastic. Just once would be lovely. We
could cut it shorter and make it clinic. Yeah, that's
we're all going to end up, I think, or extended
and it's clinically insane. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
I like it. Letting the air off. So the Dewey penalty,
it's nila all. We get the penalty right in front.
The right decision, the wrong decision, gentlemen, what do you think?
And that was it about that twenty minute.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
I'm happy to go first. It one hundred percent the
right decision. You want to arm wrestle with Penrith, you
just take the lead, get to to nil. Hopefully you
get another opportunity, which we did and try and get
to eight nil, which we didn't. So I like the
idea of it. There'd be no points for what's twenty
odd minutes in the game.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
So yeah, at the time I wanted us to take
the two. So I can't really change my point of
view on that now.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, no argument, Okay, yeah, you can see an argument
over the way. I'm going to sit on the fence
on that one. Where did the West Titan is?

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Joel, You're just going to say three events three against one.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
It's good for conversation. You can see it either way.
When all three of us said one way.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
I don't have an opinion in heights, where do the
West Tigers sit? And don't say look literally on the ladder.
But you know, it's hard to judge because the Panthers
have they'd won six games coming straight into that with
a team that's a bit of a lower place team.
But is it as bleak as it feels today, Steve,

(36:03):
I feel really really deflated up it is.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
It is an undeflated too, And I'll tell you why
I think it's bleak because five minutes before halftime, you
just knew Penrith we're going to score a try because
it's happened last week. It happened the week before, that
happened the week before, that happened the week before. It
happens every single week. And what causes me to be

(36:30):
bleak is the fact that we don't fix our errors.
This is what you are. We not capable, surely surely.
Circled underlined in big red bold print is stay focused,
play through forty minutes, don't let your guard down. No
errors in the last five minutes. Discipline play. But every single.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
Week, can I give you those tats boys? I made
the notes for the next show, but I won't to
read them out, okay on that show. So Round five
Savy Wilison scores before halftime. Round eight, Wella Tylo scores
before halftime. I've thrown In Round nine, Suwa drops the
ball in the last minute of the half over the line,
so that should have been a tribe, but Buller goes
down the other end. Round thirteen drink water scores just

(37:13):
on halftime. I can't even read my underwriting here? Did
we play? In Round fourteen? Penrith Jenkins thirty ninth minute
sab thirty ninth minute against Manly Mark the one the
need to against the Ruses just before halftime, and Bill
and Edwards yesterday. But I will say one thing, Steve,
it was bleak watching it live. We did a live
watch at the Orange Grove Hotel. Shouts to the Orange

(37:34):
Grove Hotel for that. We had a great day there.
I felt devastated watching the game again today.

Speaker 5 (37:40):
Do you watch that game?

Speaker 4 (37:41):
I had to.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
That is the most boring game of football I've ever
watched home I life. I had to. I'm surprised you're
awake now.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
I was ripping on Twitter. I was ripping in on
Twitter saying we got no structure, We've got no system,
we got no this, we got no that. And I'm
watching the game. I'm thinking after twenty one and twenty
two minutes and not playing that badly. We really weren't
playing that badly. We're in the wrestle. We just we're
so impotent in attack. And that is the thing I
don't understand with a Benchie Marshall coach side. But as

(38:09):
you alluded to earlier, won the forwards are losing the battle.
We only beat a half a new South Wales cut
pack against the Roosters and two we're missing Jerien Buller,
who is in attack, as you said last week on
this collaboration pod, our most important attacking weapon.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yeah, I'm not quite as bleak as you are, Steve.
And that's one of the worst games of football I've
sat three. Yes, I really didn't enjoy it. I was
sitting with Rachen Kelly and I said to them I
want to go home now, and I never want to
leave a game. I was over that game of football.
But Peners in really good form at the moment, at
six in a row, they're four times Premiership winners. They're

(38:45):
going to be a difficult side to beat in the finals.
They're playing really good football. And as much as we
hate to say it, we are not a good football
team and we're coming off three wooden spoons. We're going
to be in the bottom few teams again this year
and that's what we expect. I don't want to be
that team anymore, and I'm not going to make excuses

(39:06):
for that performance. Yes, because the performance yes day isn't
good enough that it's the level of our football team.
And we had a couple of players out our second rollers.
We were worried about our second Rollers going into the
start of the year. The second roles we had starting
yesterday are a real problem, and we need Sam Weller
back really quickly, and we need kuipers Paul the next

(39:28):
season because neither second rower helped us at all yesterday.
So Buller in those second roles will make a difference.
I think we'll be better attacking over the next couple
of weeks. But we are still a bottom fourteen and
we're playing aside that I think is going to be
very difficult to beat in.

Speaker 5 (39:45):
Semi final football.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
So that sounds to me like there's a reason for
us to feel bleak, right, Yes, so I was thinking
one hundred percent it's a reason to feel bleak, and
it's something we've got to improve.

Speaker 5 (39:58):
But I can't expect any better fro from the side
we're putting out on.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
The Let's flip it right, Let's try to be a
little positive about it, because because I'm usually the one
who jumps on here and says, you know, our our
squad is not that far off, right, I'm fairly positive,
usually fairly positive about that. If we look at it,
look at our you know, we've got Buller at full back,
We're going to have Taruva and you know, maybe Skelton
comes good. He's on the wing. We've got May and

(40:23):
Tower in the centers. We've got Macasini is sitting around
there somewhere. We've got Leu and Faine who five eight
and a half back. You'd have to admit that that's
that's a pretty good first grade back line, right like
those guys apart from maybe Skelting at the moment and
Fain who is still coming through. Those guys will be
playing first grade, you know, in a lot of clubs.

(40:45):
So then we go to our fullwerd packers. Obviously we're
not giving them the platform to be able to do
what they can do as a back line. And we
keep saying we're a full back short, we're bringing a
new second rower in. Maybe we've got to do the
experiment at lock, or maybe we're still looking for a lock.
Are we then close to a competitive top eight team?

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I think if you put the right middle, the right
prop forward into that side yesterday, you put a guy
who can create some punch through the middle, who can
cause a little bit of damage to the defensive line
and get you playing against the retrieving defense and and
a lock. I'm not sold on doing I didn't think
he was great yesterday. If you fix those two position

(41:27):
that goes a long way to improving what we've got
on the field next year. I still think there's some
concerns about our depth, but our the magplays have had
a pretty good last two months as well, so that
maybe that's improving a little bit.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
But if we fix.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Up those two key positions, and they're the key positions
for me, the ones we spoke about at the start
of the season, we're second row center, we spoke about lock,
and we spoke about prop. I think we're I think
we're fixed center. I'm we're making attempt to fix the
second row with Kaye Peace Paul. We'll see how he
goes when he gets over. But we're still short at

(42:02):
prop and lock. And what does please me is that
we're fixed two of those positions already this season. If
we can fix those other two, we're a lot more
competitive next year.

Speaker 4 (42:13):
Steve, I'm with you on the back line. I think
we're set even in terms of depth as well. I
think we're looking really good. We've got players that can
play other positions to ruver ca and fill in at
full back. We can juggle things around there, but with
the forwards, we need at least two middles. And I
will say one thing, I don't want to be the
party pooper. I'm not sold on Kaype's Paul in terms
of him being elite, and Samuell is not there yet.
He still needs time to develop. I watch back up

(42:34):
second rowers today. I saw SASANGI for the Raiders, playing
out the centers, and I think he's better than any
of the two guys we've got. And I also see
like a guy like Zach Hoskin who is back up
for Matt Nicholson. Like Matt Nicholson's only their right edge.
And I haven't even bothered looking at the other teams.
I just saw two players in a game today thinking
they'd be first graders at the Tigers, and they're back

(42:54):
up for these other clubs. So our depth is really
I want two middles. I want May's minutes reviews, and
I want to see the Terrell May that we had
earlier in the season that wasn't burnt out. Okay, he's
still putting in the minutes, but he's not running with
the gusto that he was early in the season. Well,
and I love him he's been the world to our
club and he's carried he shouldered that pack. Okay, but

(43:14):
he needs to be freshened a little bit, brought back
to a forty to fifty minute role. He can't keep
playing sixty five to eighty minutes every week for the
next few years. He's going to be absolutely burnt out.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
He'll end up getting injury.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
And you have a lidy statu yesterday. Now it's going
to sound stupid because they are actually still pretty good stats.
It was like it was one hundred and thirty meters
fifty tackles, like that's a great performance. But he was
getting one hundred and seventy meters earlier in the season,
and so there has been a drop off in his form.
And I still think he's playing good football. He's still
really important to what we're doing, but yeah, he needs

(43:47):
to help around that sixty minute mark. I think it's
just about perfect for him. I don't want to reduce
his minutes too much, because I think he actually plays
better football playing more minutes, but over the course of
the season, playing eighteen minutes in week out is a
little bit too much.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
Can I just touch on the bleakness for a sect
that you mentioned earlier, Steve, I thought the first half
was okay yesterday that the bleakness was the second half.
But what the real bleakness is for me? We played
New Zealand in round four and we should have won,
and we went there a few weeks ago and never
looked a chance of winning. Okay, we scored earlier, but
I better give us that much. We played the Panthers
seven weeks ago. We probably would have won the game

(44:24):
if do we kick straight or if Buller is an
inch or too close to the line. We had three
chances in the last few minutes. So the bleakness for
me is where we were not that long ago to
where we were now. Now. The thing when we played Penrith,
sure Buller was there, but I know Galvin's destroyed our season.
Mcgawan wasn't there seven weeks ago. This is basically the
same squad of players that we had, So that is

(44:44):
a really big concern for me, and it's got to
be fixed, and we've got to start getting that upward trend.
Even if we're losing games. I want to start losing
games twenty four or eighteen and playing with a style
like we see Paramatta now who seemed to know who
they are, they know their identity, and they're down at
the bottom end of the ladder. That's what I want
to see. That would be more encouraging to me than
what we're doing right now. That that baller loss for

(45:06):
me is massive. We can't rely on one player game.
I know, if he gets injured or suspended a lot
doesn't acls. Like you know, you can't rely everything on
one player.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I'm not going to like when I said two weeks ago,
and I've said it a number of times in the
last couple of weeks, but he is our most important player.
I one hundred percent believe that our attack changes completely
once he comes back.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
In attack of years, I'm going to just I think
Terrell May is doing the work or two forwards. So
to me, he's our mostam.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
Our biggest weakness at the moment.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Is that it still that that red zone attack it
has been for the last five years.

Speaker 5 (45:41):
We can't score points once we get down to that.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
And like you said, we had opportunities at the start
that game yesterday and we were impotent in that twenty
Exactly if Taylor May gets that ball to the ground
or we score through having a better attacking structure in
that opening twenty minutes.

Speaker 5 (45:56):
You don't know how that game.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
They didn't check it, they didn't even chair, They just
said held up like every other team. Like even that
young winger he gets penalized for the roll ball. And
you go to every try of penrith well not the
long range one, but the other two tries there were
three roll balls in each set. It's like the Jenkins
try Tongan gets up and just roll balls. The first
try to Smith, Dylan Edwards gets up, roll ball, like

(46:18):
we just get picked on as well. Like not that
we were ever probably going to win the game yesterday,
but we've got to go above and beyond these refereeing howlders.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
You know the ray of hope there, and I agree
with him. If we finished fifteenth or seventeenth, there's absolutely
an argument to say there's no improvement, right, no matter
how you want to frame it. If we finished fifteenth
or seventeenth, we should be pretty annoyed at the season.
But the one array of hope, the dim light there

(46:46):
is that we haven't thrown in the towel yet the
last four seasons. And it may be more than that
That's what I remember. You know, by mid year, just
after mid year, we throw in the towel and just
put up the most horrendous, gutless, in sipid performances week
after week where half the squad don't even want to
be there. That's happened. I still haven't seen that yet

(47:08):
from this squad. I've seen or football, and I've seen
teams outclassed and outplayed, but I haven't seen a group
of players that don't want to go out and play
for the Jersey.

Speaker 4 (47:19):
They're having a go, but they were dejected yesterday midway
through that second half. As soon as Abby came off.
We needed Jerome to like stand up and get really
aggressive with the boys verbally and get them up. They
look defeated, they really, and that was concerning because they
were in the game, but they dropped their heads when
I got out of reach.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
I'm going to throw something up here that I was
thinking about earlier today. So it's a question without notice,
end of year review. What does it look like, who
does it? How thorough should it be? Do we know
the answers to our problems? Do we need to find
the answers to our problems? Is it something that needs
to be done very thoroughly, very clinically to find out

(47:57):
exactly where things have gone wrong in twenty twenty five
and in the last couple of seasons.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
For me, it's Shane Richardson. He's the guy that I
trust and has to do all that. He knows what's
going on internally. We can only speculate the four of
us from the outside, but he's the one that knows
what every person is doing in that club, whether it's
a head coach, he assistant coaches, the players. He's turned
other clubs around before. We have to trust what he says.
And the one thing I love about Shane Richardson He's

(48:22):
prepared to make the tough decisions. He's not out there
to win popularity contests. He wants to turn us around.
He wants us to win a premiership within two or
three years. So I would trust rich O in whatever
he decides to do. But you know I do. I
do feel for the coaching staff and the playing group
because at the same time, they can't listen to the
outside noise, even if we're right to a certain degree.

(48:44):
They've just got to believe in themselves. But as someone
who's who actually saw a lot of improvement in the
first half of the season. I think we've just gone
back at the raid of knots and it's really it's
a really concerning thing.

Speaker 5 (48:56):
In terms of our football team and our squad. Same thing.
Know where the weaknesses are. But you have a look
at the players we've signed.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
We've gone out and found Taylor Mays a center, We've
picked up a second roll for next year, and are
you're right it's arguable what difference he's going to make
to the side. I'm looking forward to seeing what he
can contribute. I don't think he gets opportunities at Newcastle
that he probably needs to get.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
He's an upgrade on what we've got.

Speaker 5 (49:20):
Anyway, he's an upgrade on what we've got.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
I looking back, I still like the Skelton signing because
it's what that did for me is it showed that
the club can identify a weakness which was coming out
of our own and they went and found a guy
in reserve grade who was really good at yardage coming
out there out of his own end, and they got
into the club. So I think we're doing a really
good job of identifying where those weaknesses are. What's key

(49:45):
now is going out and finding the right people for
those two positions that I think is still really crucial
that we've got upgrade for next year.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
And I would add to that, we need to have
a look at the coaching staff and see where the
weaknesses are. I am still a Bengji I'm not I'm
not talking enough because of his history as a player.
I still think he brings something to the to the
coaching and I think he's a good head coach. Where
has it got the makings to be a great head coach?

(50:12):
But you know the the crosses and noughts that you know,
we need someone there that's doing that better than is
happening at the moment.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
I think now that the talk around Todd Payton, I'm
still really keen on that signing and it should be
someone who Benji is quite comfortable with. And I think
that is important for a guy like Benji Marshall. I
think he's a great that doesn't trust.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Well and he can answer question number one on the
job application. Have you played for the West Tigers before?
If you tick this box, continue under question.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
I actually think that should be a thing that we
no longer look at like that definitely has to be
a thing that.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
We avoid from now on. The difference is point with
Todd Payten's the exception.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
To I agree with that, like Todd Payton would be
a good, good get, absolutely, but I think I think
Benji needs to be He's got to have people underneath
him that are going to challenge his thinking and bring
something different to the table and not just agree with
him and make him feel good about himself, which I
think is what he likes at the moment because he's
an experience. So yeah, he needs someone who's going to

(51:16):
tell him he's wrong.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Which actually could be detrimental to his progress as a coach,
because if he had somebody there, I mean, if you
go back Don Ferner, Wayne Bennett, when Wayne Bennett was
earning his stripes, he had a really experienced guy that
he was co coaching, co coaching with the camera. It
may actually end up being to Benji's long term detriment
as a coach by not having someone thereoutely it's able

(51:37):
to in the right way hold his hand and help
him through. So it may not be in hindsight the
right decision jobs for the Boys is the accusation. Shannon Glare,
new head of recruitment former head of Pathways. I'll throw
back to you, Rob, did think we should have looked
outside for someone new. I mean, Shannon's been a player,
he's been around the club for a while. I mean,

(51:59):
what do you think makes him right for the job.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
I don't know much about Shannon Gallant. I only know
what Adele has told me about him, and Adele is
a really big fan of what he can do. I
know he hasn't been in the greatest of form the
last few weeks, but I believe he's the one that
actually identified Geral Skelton as someone to come to our club,
someone that could make yardage. I know he's leaving his
wingers unmarked lately, but you know, I think that he's
doing that role though, and looked.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
For him and Glann couldn't tackle either.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Wait a minute, you got you've got defense as well.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
If Shannon Gallant was there instead of not getting injured,
instead it and Tim Moulton, we would have done a
lot better. In two thousand and nine, I was a
little fan of the Pocket Rocket.

Speaker 5 (52:36):
He was great.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
It was a wholehearted player.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
For you.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
She was What do you think is I mean, I
know what Gary is saying is so when he puts
his feet under the desk in that recruitment role, it's
that prop. It's another second rower.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
It's that prop. It's that prop.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
It's that prop, and it's that lock. They're the key
things we've got to get sorted out. I don't think
we'll get to two more props. But as long as
the prop we do get is that impactful guy through
the middle, that that I think we've been desperate for
for five years, then that's the right place to be
looking and go out and find him and get someone
who can actually create a bit of space for our

(53:13):
helves to operating.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
I think you'll see a big difference to how our team.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
We need a journeyman too. We need a hardened one
hundred and fifty two hundred game play as well, and
we must have a massive war chest. And if we're
happy with the backs that we've got, granted we've got
to sign Tailor. There's a bit of money to be
put aside. For that, we need to get as many
forwards as we can. These forwards aren't doing it for
New Apolo, like we all love the New Apolo. He
misses the tackle yesterday for Smith going through.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
And he's been bad for the past month.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
That's what I mean. I think he's an impact player.
I don't think he's a starting prop. So we're way short, mate,
we are way short.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
The other thing I'd be looking at is Polo should
be starting on the bench. I've thought that for a
long time. Paul's not the guy who should be starting.
Only fan the form. I don't think he's been quite
as good the last couple of but the form he
showed for the month before that showed he should be
our starting pro.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
His starting game against Cambria was brilliant when he started
that night.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
He needs to be the starting prop this weekend. He
needs to be the starting prop for the rest of
this season, and he at least provides a little bit
of variety in what you're doing. I think having May
and Twall as your two starting props, that they're both about, like,
May's got a lot to his game, but his primary
role is getting a lot of meters, and Twole all

(54:29):
he really has to his game.

Speaker 5 (54:31):
He's being able to punch out meters.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
So we really need someone who's a little bit different,
has a little bit more impact, and I think you
get a little bit of variety there if he puts
the only into.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
That role, does a more impactful second rowland front row?
Change the lens for Adam Dewey At the moment, I'm saying,
let's not re sign him as a lock. I'm not convinced,
albeit a huge amount of regard for what he's done
and how he's come back that I'm just not convinced
that lock. But does that change that for you, Steve,
if he's playing behind a pack that's doing a better

(55:02):
job of marching up the field with aggression and winning
the collision.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
He was quite yesterday until the last ten to fifteen
minutes and he seemed to come to.

Speaker 5 (55:11):
Life because he got me to do the halves.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Yeah right, Yeah, I still think Adam Dewey is worth resigning.
If Adam Dewey has the attitude to play where he's needed,
which might be thirteen, but it might also be utility.

Speaker 5 (55:26):
What sort of contracts to do.

Speaker 4 (55:28):
Well?

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Ideally ideally for us one year to see how he goes.
But I don't think you get that, So I think
you'd have to go you'd have to put him on
a two year deal. I would say I'd be prepared
to do that. I think he's shown us enough this year,
Adam do he adds value to our team? Right, Adam
is wholehearted, he puts him and he's skillful. Right, he

(55:49):
can go out there and do a job. He can
do better than a job that where his best spot is.
Whether it's thirteen, I like what I've seen from time
to time from thirteen. Still concerned about him putting out
thirty tackles in the middle every week. I'm not sure
he's got the mindset to do that. But if he
doesn't make it at thirty and I think I think

(56:10):
he makes it pretty good fourteen, I'd be happier than
him at forty. And this goes against what I said
a month or so ago about having a dedicated looker
as you're fourteen. But I'm not liking what I thought,
like like Hope is as our fourteen coming on for
twenty minutes. Man, he got trample.

Speaker 5 (56:25):
It did get trampled, But Happy was starting to fall
off a lot of tackles. Appy does fall off.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Yeah, it was getting worse around that time that he
came off the field.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
So it's more and more obvious now right that Appy
needs to be playing correct fifty to sixty, so.

Speaker 5 (56:41):
We need hope it's not the person to be coming on.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
But we've just resigned him. We haven't got anyone else.
We've got a fifteen year old coming through, right, so
who's going to be there.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
I think we do need to pick someone up for
one year to build that role and then look at
Hayward coming through. I think he has has a spot
probably in twenty twenty seven. But that talk around Adam Douy,
there are rumors that he is quite happy to take
a one year contract.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Well, if that's the case, that would be perfect for
the club.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
I think for him it's probably twofold. The fact that
a one year contract gives him that opportunity again that
he seems to be looking for every single year of
proving he's worth more than the contract that's actually been offered.
But it also gives him the opportunity. The Bears are
coming in in twenty twenty seven and they're going to
be looking for someone, and there's already been rumors around

(57:33):
about Adam Deuey to the Bears, So I think he
would be quite happy for that one year contract, but
I can't see it being any more than that three
hundred and fifty thousand dollar mark because you're signing him
as a bench player or a backup. I don't think
you can outsign him as a as a thirteen at.

Speaker 5 (57:50):
This point in time. Well, he's still unproven, that's right.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
So whether he's willing to take that role and that contract,
that's the decision that Adam Dewey has to make.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
To be fair, two of our best three kicks last
night were performed by Adam Dewey, which is why why.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Do we not if he's playing in the middle, especially
even if it's in that locker room. His bombs from
two years ago were probably some of the most dangerous
kicks in the game. He did one of them last night.
It's the first time I've seen him do it this year.
Why aren't we taking advantage of that?

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Must be a clause in his contract, not.

Speaker 5 (58:27):
Enough money for him to kick exactly? Is that what
you think it is?

Speaker 1 (58:30):
To the goal kicking or the in play kicking, but
not both, That's what's that condition. Unless you're getting an
extra fifty grand exactly, or unless I'm wearing a number
six or a number seven my back. I am worried
about Happy Rob another two years. I'm really worried about Well, no,
it's longer than two years, but I think about Appy
in two years time and I start getting worried.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
I can understand the concerns, but I'm an happy fan.
I think Appy needs a bit of a fresh now.
He probably needs the end of the season. We've played
him at eighty minutes of times this year, which we.

Speaker 5 (59:01):
Do to him every year. We run him into the
ground every single year.

Speaker 4 (59:05):
Yeah, his last two years were elite. And it was
only four weeks ago that he played brilliantly against our
Sydney and made Latrelle look like a reserve grader, and
the way he went past him twice. So I've got
faith with him. And I also think if you put
a better pack around him, he can pick and choose
his moments a little bit better. But I will say
one thing. Up until the fifty second minute when he
came off yesterday, I thought he was our best player.
But people are bagging him on social media, so I

(59:27):
don't know what they saw that I didn't see. I
thought he was dangerous. I know he missed some tackles,
but he's getting.

Speaker 5 (59:32):
Very ragged defense really good.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
He bounces those misses. He kind of bounces you back
into the middle into the direction of where the defenders are.
He's not a big guy. He's never going to he's
always going to miss five or six tackles. Again, that's
that's stock standard. But again you have to question, looking
at what Tristan Hoped did yesterday, why did we let
Tellon to Silver go? If we're serious about I know
we can't make the eight now, but if we were
trying to make the eight or trying to avoid the spoon,

(59:56):
are we really that desperate for dollars in the cap
because we we should have two million to spend. Mate,
we really like that if we could have played talent
starting like the last couple of weeks and then bring
Happy on and everyone's happy, Yeah, happy happy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
I'd like a dollar for every time I've started a
sentence with why in regards to the West Side, I
cannot answer that question.

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
You'd be retired.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I'd be retired a rich man.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
I was actually quite happy when we took Gapy off yesterday,
not because I thought he was playing bad, but that
defense was getting a little bit rated.

Speaker 5 (01:00:24):
But Trician Hope came.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
On power his defense was worse, So that's a little
bit of an issue like even a tired happy yesterday?
Would we much better than what Trician hope provided.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Let's finish up the way we started with one word,
so I'm really throwing you guys in the right out
in the fire. One word to describe the signing of
Madden Jock Madden for twenty six and twenty seven. What
comes to mind? What's the first thing that comes to mind?

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
Gary?

Speaker 5 (01:00:52):
The first thing that comes to mind is back to
the future.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
But I'm actually quite happy with fell words. Oh no,
I don't care, Joel. You have forty seven visual one word.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Yeah, but I'm a host, so you get the diplomatic community.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
But I am quite happy with the signing. It it's
obviously a backup role and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
One happy word happy.

Speaker 5 (01:01:10):
Don't he's the word happy, He's the word. I'm unpleased
with that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
They're from the same home hometown. So Gary's probably his
manager or his dad. Don't his dad or his cousin
or his uncle or all three?

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
My one word Titans Titans game, right, it's my one word.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Got the more we lost the game because he dropped
the in Oh that was off a kick. That's being
very It was one hundred years ago, still in our
memory bank. Show, isn't it back up?

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Back up? That's my word.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
I'm going to say a stut okay, because we don't
know who's going to get injured. He does the ind
of the line. He's got a good general kicking game.
He can goalkick. If we're losing Doey, We've got a
backup goalkicker there. He's got a good passing game. It's
just some defensive issues that we'd have to fix up.
But like a lot of guys in our squad, like
the safe part of the world, it'd be perfect if
he could only use them three or four times a
year in first grade. I think Joe can do a

(01:01:58):
job if someone goes down, like like for example a
Tanner Boyd has done for New Zealand. I mean, he's
not the greatest player in the world, but you know
he can do a job and that's what that's what
we need. And he was a former Australian schoolboy half.

Speaker 7 (01:02:08):
So it's not like he's a bum Magpies around second
when he was playing for the Magpies. He's primarily going
to be playing at the Magpie So he's a good
signing and he's an upgrade on on Kurt Falls So
who's currently playing half back from the mak.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
I like it, so excuse where is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
He Broncho playing hind Adam Ronaldsy has played a few
games and I thought he's played pretty well when he's
played for the Broncos.

Speaker 5 (01:02:29):
So yeah, I'm quite happy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
My word is dewey because I think it spells the
end of Adam Dowey.

Speaker 5 (01:02:33):
That's probably a good point, unless you're looking at him as.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
A lot Jock Madden Dewey. That's on your behalf, Adam Dowey. Alrighty,
thank you guys, good job.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
Thanks